NEW YORK | One World Trade Center | 1,776' Pinnacle / 1,373' Roof | 108 FLOORS

[marshall]

Great to hear that they will be starting the base cladding soon! Once finished it will really help give the tower a streamlined, sleek look! As for the antenna, I agree it would be amazing to watch it be lowered in segments by helicopter, not sure they would take that route, given the size each segment will be? Maybe they will just hoist by crane...Either way, the spire installation will def be the icing on 1WTC's cake!

[NewYorkSkyline117]

I just really wanna see the glass rise..it's been 61 days since the last row.

[CarlosV]

^^^
today

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7176/6811545184_19e42a9886_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ceva321/6811545184/)
DSC_0066 copy (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ceva321/6811545184/) by Ceva321 (http://www.flickr.com/people/ceva321/), on Flickr

.

it was January 19 the last time glass went up.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7148/6727131099_c03d50d5f8_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ceva321/6727131099/)
DSC_5136 copy (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ceva321/6727131099/) by Ceva321 (http://www.flickr.com/people/ceva321/), on Flickr

[Roadcruiser1]

I managed to get a picture today. Only a picture, but it's better than nothing. Her and the setting sun.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7056/6811573322_a4a14c6839_b.jpg

[Roadcruiser1]

I'm worried to see the base cladding...I have a really bad feeling about it

Don't worry the base is going to be really high quality.

http://www.commercialobserver.com/files/2011/11/Day-View-with-Context.jpg

http://www.commercialobserver.com/files/2011/11/Night-View.jpg

Glass Fins.

http://www.commercialobserver.com/files/2011/11/001-1.jpg

Link.

http://www.commercialobserver.com/2011/11/take-a-shine-to-it-1-world-trade-base-will-be-pleated-rather-than-prismatic/#slide4

[NewYorkSkyline117]

^^^
today

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7176/6811545184_19e42a9886_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ceva321/6811545184/)
DSC_0066 copy (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ceva321/6811545184/) by Ceva321 (http://www.flickr.com/people/ceva321/), on Flickr

.

it was January 19 the last time glass went up.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7148/6727131099_c03d50d5f8_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ceva321/6727131099/)
DSC_5136 copy (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ceva321/6727131099/) by Ceva321 (http://www.flickr.com/people/ceva321/), on Flickr

Thanks Carlos that just made my night :) & my bad 46 days then

[Don098]

I just hope to god that it looks nothing like's WTC7's steel base...yuck. As long as it ends up looking better, I'll be happy!

[NewYorkDominates]

http://http://i39.tinypic.com/1f3w2.jpg

[alan88]

the radome has eliminated from the TV mast & Durst Org is working to move the TV broadcasters back.

see this Wall Street Jouranal Article

WTC Tower Seeks Radio, TV Signals .

By ELIOT BROWN
A battle is brewing for the airwaves over Manhattan.

The owners of One World Trade Center are planning to install a broadcast antenna in the 1776-foot building's spire in a bid to lure some of the more than two dozen television and radio stations currently broadcasting from the Empire State Building.

The move—reviving an earlier broadcast plan that was dropped out of financial concerns—would inject some competition into the skies for the Empire State Building, which since the collapse of the original World Trade Center towers in 2001 has been the go-to broadcast site in the city.


."Our expectations would be to become the premiere broadcast facility in New York City," said Thomas Bow, senior vice president at the Durst Organization, the development firm that controls One World Trade in a partnership with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. The building, currently under construction, is slated for completion at the end of 2013.

A spokesman for Malkin Holdings, an owner of the Empire State Building, declined to comment.

The Durst Organization expects to be able to take in about $10 million a year in rents and fees from television and radio stations drawn to the tower, the company said.

That is compared with the $16.1 million the Empire State Building generated from broadcasters in 2010, according to a securities filing. The only other main competitor is 4 Times Square, which is owned by the Durst Organization and primarily serves as a backup location for broadcasters, and would offer itself as a backup under the new broadcast plan.

The plan, which came after Durst Organization executives pitched the Port Authority on the idea, calls for other changes to the planned 408-foot spire on top of One Trade Center. Its architectural cone would be stripped away, putting in place a thinner, more functional spire that the Durst Organization said would save about $20 million.

The revision, however, drew criticism from the building's architect, Skidmore Owings & Merrill, people familiar with the matter said.

Under the agreement, Durst will put up the approximately $7 million of infrastructure and about $20 million of costs to build out the broadcast space for tenants, the company said. The proceeds would be split between the two owners, although Mr. Bow declined to give specifics.

The Port Authority pulled back from that route three years ago when it became concerned with putting in more money into the tower and the agency began worried that there wouldn't be enough interest from broadcasters.

Write to Eliot Brown at eliot.brown@wsj.com

[alan88]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7067/6811107090_03442bc5ea_b.jpg

The radome was jsut eliminated, the contract with IBK has been canceled. See the WSJ article I just posted, now that it is public.

[alan88]

Even Zen didn't know just how they were going to erect that beast. Once it gets past the point where building cranes can raise the sections I haven't heard if it will be gin poles, building it out of smaller pieces or (how cool would that be?) helicopters. It seems like the cranes there now would have to be removed before they could start the mast.

It will be erected using a tower crane, quite an amazing design for tower crane by DCM.

alan

[gramsjdg]

No friggin way. That's going to ruin the design. The hell are they thinking? This is supposed to be the showpiece of NYC.

I refuse to believe that they will eliminate the radome. What a friggin' joke!:hell::sly::yuck::whatthefuck::maddown::pissed::rant::burstbubble

[Otie]

Correction to the WSJ article: the trade contract made between Port Authority and IBK Fibertek/DCM back in July 2009 was valuated in $17,199,000 USD, not $20,000,00.
Hoping they listen to SOM and re-consider their decissions.

[gramsjdg]

Guess what people: Eliminating the radome makes the spire into an antenna, just like the one on the original north tower.

This building will now officially be only 1368 ft tall.

Good job Durst -you just screwed NYC :worship:

[Don098]

Can someone please explain this to me through pictures...?

[Roadcruiser1]

Can someone please explain this to me through pictures...?

Look at the picture below. The black box like thing at the bottom of the mast is called a radome. That thing has been removed from the tower.

More info on radomes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radome

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7067/6811107090_03442bc5ea_b.jpg

[Dense_Electric]

Does it in any way affect the aesthetics of the communications ring or the outer cladding of the spire? It doesn't seem like it would even be noticeable, I'm evidently not getting something here...

[Kevin Scott Koepke]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7057/6811976066_cbeae70e2a.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevinskoepke/6811976066/)
lower manhattan; 3/5/2012 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevinskoepke/6811976066/) by kevin scott koepke photography (http://www.flickr.com/people/kevinskoepke/), on Flickr

Please do not repost, copy, or otherwise reproduce. Thank you.:banana:

[uaarkson]

WTC Tower Seeks Radio, TV Signals .

By ELIOT BROWN
A battle is brewing for the airwaves over Manhattan.

The owners of One World Trade Center are planning to install a broadcast antenna in the 1776-foot building's spire in a bid to lure some of the more than two dozen television and radio stations currently broadcasting from the Empire State Building.

The move—reviving an earlier broadcast plan that was dropped out of financial concerns—would inject some competition into the skies for the Empire State Building, which since the collapse of the original World Trade Center towers in 2001 has been the go-to broadcast site in the city.


."Our expectations would be to become the premiere broadcast facility in New York City," said Thomas Bow, senior vice president at the Durst Organization, the development firm that controls One World Trade in a partnership with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. The building, currently under construction, is slated for completion at the end of 2013.

A spokesman for Malkin Holdings, an owner of the Empire State Building, declined to comment.

The Durst Organization expects to be able to take in about $10 million a year in rents and fees from television and radio stations drawn to the tower, the company said.

That is compared with the $16.1 million the Empire State Building generated from broadcasters in 2010, according to a securities filing. The only other main competitor is 4 Times Square, which is owned by the Durst Organization and primarily serves as a backup location for broadcasters, and would offer itself as a backup under the new broadcast plan.

The plan, which came after Durst Organization executives pitched the Port Authority on the idea, calls for other changes to the planned 408-foot spire on top of One Trade Center. Its architectural cone would be stripped away, putting in place a thinner, more functional spire that the Durst Organization said would save about $20 million.

The revision, however, drew criticism from the building's architect, Skidmore Owings & Merrill, people familiar with the matter said.

Under the agreement, Durst will put up the approximately $7 million of infrastructure and about $20 million of costs to build out the broadcast space for tenants, the company said. The proceeds would be split between the two owners, although Mr. Bow declined to give specifics.

The Port Authority pulled back from that route three years ago when it became concerned with putting in more money into the tower and the agency began worried that there wouldn't be enough interest from broadcasters.

Oh. :(

[NewYorkDominates]

[QUOTE=Roadcruiser1;5616995]Look at the picture below. The black box like thing at the bottom of the mast is called a radome. That thing has been removed from

Don't forget about the most important part,the architectural Cone encasing the ugly looking spire.What bad news just when I was excited about the Podium cladding.

[Islander]

Disgraceful. That spire was gorgeous.

[gramsjdg]

The "spire" or telecommunications mast without the radome would look almost exactly like the antenna contraption on top of Conde Nast: i.e., hideous, fugly, etc... :yuck:

[gramsjdg]

I hope someone writes up an article for the NY Times showing what the WTC One would look like without the radome covering the antenna. I think the public outcry would easily put a stop to the implementation of what I call "Durst's Dastardly Deed."

[hunser]

The plan, which came after Durst Organization executives pitched the Port Authority on the idea, calls for other changes to the planned 408-foot spire on top of One Trade Center. Its architectural cone would be stripped away, putting in place a thinner, more functional spire that the Durst Organization said would save about $20 million.

WT...? No way man, the cone has to stay or else we'll get a freaking fugly antenna! Really Durst? You want us all to look at that ugly thing for the foreseeable future? What a sick idea... :yuck:.

The revision, however, drew criticism from the building's architect, Skidmore Owings & Merrill, people familiar with the matter said.

Yeah Durst, listen to pros for once.

Now it's not the time to cheap out, especially not with THIS tower. Last thing we need is a 400 feet tall super tiny pencil. Throw away this f* stupid idea, NOW! :hell:

[flemington]

Oh, sh*t... No way! Thanks a lot, Durst... Really disgraceful!!!

[Roadcruiser1]

At least we got one of the Twin Towers back if this building is almost a complete replica of the North Tower :haha:.

[NewYorkSkyline117]

Are.you.fudging.KIDDING ME?!? What the f-ing hell are they THINKING?!?!?! I swear to god how the hell can they just let this idea slip?!?! No god please don't it's going to look fugly and it won't be seemingly as tall as we thought it would be..so it will look like one of the twin towers but its time to see something new & it won't be among the taller:( of course the sears wins again :(

[NewYorkSkyline117]

Guys lets rebel...

[NewYorkDominates]

Things going to look excatly like the north tower,and that's the last thing I want.Something new for a change.

[NewYorkSkyline117]

Wait this isn't official right...

[NewYorkDominates]

I sent an email to Durst Organization Inc. regarding the tower and hopefully gets to the higher elite members of the organization who make such decisions.

[cityenthusiast]

And havnt they already produced the shell for the spire anyways. i think its a little late to try and do this. F*^k durst!

[NewYorkSkyline117]

This is a completely serious comment but I think eah and every one of us should email durst but act as individuals and not as a group on a forum so it's like a perspective from "the people" seriously let's do that..this also means the spire of the empire state building will be taken down? So that it'll look like it did when it was first built with the capsule

[NYguy]

Too bad about the spire changes, if they decide to go ahead with it. The Port Authority itself threatened such changes a few years ago. But the spire was IMO what set this tower apart from the others. It would be a mistake, to not build it. I would rather the money from the broadcasters or even the observation deck went to building the spire as planned. But that probably won't happen. As far as public opinion goes though, most people have no idea what the spire is planned to look like, and simply reading about it gives the impression that it's just some large "antenna" being placed on top. Sadly, that may become a reality.



R36 coach (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29997762@N05/6811128422/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7195/6811128422_57bb6fcd82_b.jpg



m.touhey (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtouhey/6812020456/sizes/l/in/pool-18964236@N00/)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7188/6812020456_cb1f74007f_b.jpg




this also means the spire of the empire state building will be taken down? So that it'll look like it did when it was first built with the capsule

Of course not.

[sbarn]

Wow, news of a possible spire change just ruined my day. :yuck:

[Dense_Electric]

The best (and really only) way to prevent this change is to raise enough awareness about it that there is a public backlash. I hope that the existence of this building becomes more widely known once it tops out, maybe enough people will become aware of the situation.

Although I suppose it's not inconceivable that a cladded spire could be installed at some future date, even if the fucktards running the show at the moment decide to go ahead with the antenna, especially after the complex is finished and it becomes as iconic and well-known as the old twins.

Seriously, though? This isn't some random building, this is the World Trade Center, possibly the most significant structure ever built in terms of what it represents. And they don't even want to do it right?

[NewYorkSkyline117]

The best (and really only) way to prevent this change is to raise enough awareness about it that there is a public backlash. I hope that the existence of this building becomes more widely known once it tops out, maybe enough people will become aware of the situation.

Although I suppose it's not inconceivable that a cladded spire could be installed at some future date, even if the fucktards running the show at the moment decide to go ahead with the antenna, especially after the complex is finished and it becomes as iconic and well-known as the old twins.

Seriously, though? This isn't some random building, this is the World Trade Center, possibly the most significant structure ever built in terms of what it represents. And they don't even want to do it right?

I think to start this backlash we should all send personal emails to dunst. I just don't get why they would even listen to such an idea let alone consider it.

[WTCman7301]

This is so absurd that there changing the spire on this tower, it made 1 WTC beautiful. I hope that Durst will change this weird idea of theirs and bring beauty back to this tower.:(:(

[marshall]

Well I hope nothing has been decided yet? Maybe there's a chance we will still get the nice fat spire as designed? After all, the building has to top out first and only then will spire construction begin..Also, a bare, bland antenna would look silly on this building because it would look like someone just stuck it there as an afterthought. The spire as designed would be a major architectural part of the building! I hope SOM and the powers that be pull out all the stops against changing the spire! :hell:

[Starship Catvern]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/430244_2791643753046_1316948428_32133683_370203759_n.jpg

[NewYorker2009]

Too bad about the spire change for One World Trade. Hopefully this isn't final but who knows anymore. It just proves how Durst and the Port Authority have ruined the project once more. If it weren't for the height, the glass, and the observation deck this Tower would be a waste. I mean spending nearly $4 Billion and the best they can do is a cheap antenna. Unbelievable. I'm guessing the now antenna will not take six months to complete since it will be a thin piece of garbage. Durst should have left the development of the spire alone. The spire was the whole point of this Tower being 1,776 feet.

[NYCLuver]

Well I wrote Durst an e-mail this morning as follows,

I recently came across an article from the Wall Street Journal detailing plans that Durst are looking into both TV and radio signal capabilities at 1 World Trade Center. That is nothing surprising, however the fact that the Durst Organization is looking to alter and change the design of 1 World Trade Center's spire is very worrisome.

I am a native New Yorker, I was born and raised here in New York City and I can tell you that changing the look of the architectural spire on top of 1 World Trade Center would be a horrible idea. I understand the motive and it comes down to money, that is no surprise, but this is not just any building we are talking about. This is 1 World Trade Center, the building that is supposed to be the focal point of the whole rebuilding process.

Now before you think I am Anti-Durst, I am not. I enjoy the two mega developments Durst has created in New York City, 4 Times Square and One Bryant Park. I love those buildings, and I love the recently implemented lighting designs at night for their spires/antenna. One Bryant Park has an architectural spire, it looks a bit like an oil rig but its something interesting and fits with the building. Four Times Square's antenna is very mechanical and in honesty is ugly, however it works with the top of the building because 4 Times Square is very mechanical on top and it actually makes the building look better than it did before the antenna was added on.

One World Trade Center's spire was designed to fit in with the building and its a beautifully done creation. To take that away and place a thinner, cheaper antenna on top would be horrible. Sometimes you just cannot look at it like a corporation and only have money on the mind. Sometimes you need to simply stop and think for a minute what you are doing and how something will look and be reflected upon. I was happy when Durst made their way to One World Trade Center but now I am not so sure.

As a native New Yorker who wants to see the spire as originally designed by the architects sitting on top of One World Trade Center, I implore you please do not alter the design of the spire. This building cannot be a disappointment. After so much time and energy placed into the design and construction, do not take away the one thing that was going to cap the tower and show the mixture of beauty and might it would have by replacing it with a simple antenna. If somehow there is a way to keep the design of the spire and put the antenna inside of it, do it.

I don't expect a reply... and I apologize for writing so much but this is certainly an issue I wanted to touch on. I don't write to a lot of people but this was something I had to mention. As I said, I am a fan of the Durst Organization, but I am not a fan of this concept.

And this is what I got as a reply, which was fairly quick.

Dan,

Thank you for your thoughtful email. The issue with the Radome is that it doesn't work on the top of the building. It's not an aesthetic issue or even a cost issue. The material simply cannot be serviced or maintained on the spire. The spire will be lit with LED lights and there will be a beacon on the top. I think it will look great and I hope you do as well.

Best,

Jordan

Which doesn't really answer anything.

[giantSwan]

I'm still confused about this antenna issue. Can someone post a before and after?

[NYguy]

Dan,

Thank you for your thoughtful email. The issue with the Radome is that it doesn't work on the top of the building. It's not an aesthetic issue or even a cost issue. The material simply cannot be serviced or maintained on the spire. The spire will be lit with LED lights and there will be a beacon on the top. I think it will look great and I hope you do as well.

Best,
Jordan

Then they should work on a solution that retains the same design at least for the spire. It was said to be the same material used on the CN Tower.

[marshall]

I agree, I mean, what's next? First off, let me say that I actually like the design for 1wtc (as envisioned by SOM and Childes) but it seems like things keep moving in the wrong direction..There was a huge opportunity to build a truly great, evocative, and cutting edge new World Trade Center. The powers that be apparently decided to go the cheap route, cutting corners whenever possible. Well guys, this is NOT the building to do that on!I actually made my peace with this building and it was growing on me, but if they actually change the spire it will look ridiculous. The proportions will be totally wrong. It will look like a skyscraper with a really bad haircut if they give it a skinny minny antenna. I guess at least it will still have the indoor observation decks, which will be nice, and the building will be the same height as the old towers...But they need to leave the design ALONE!!!!

[NYCLuver]

Then they should work on a solution that retains the same design at least for the spire. It was said to be the same material used on the CN Tower.

I wrote a reply back after he had sent me that stating that I just find it odd that a world renowned architectural firm such as SOM would put a material on the structure that isn't able to be maintained?

I mean its simply ludicrous. SOM is not an amateur's architectural firm, I am sure they know what they are doing when they pick out materials for structures.

[marshall]

Yeah, if the issue is one of maintenance, why the hell would they not have addressed that from the beginning, during the design phase?! I mean, HELLO!! Now isn't the time to be making major design changes, just a short time before the building tops out! They found an alternative solution for the base cladding, which is now being implemented, so could they find an alternative for the spire, without changing the visual design?? If they did change the spire into a skinny antenna, would the building still be 1776 feet tall?

[SoaringSkylines]

Wow, guys.. I am totally disgusted :/ .. I'm dead serious.

Everyone is right about the whole money issue-- This just ISN'T A BUILDING.. This is the World Trade Center, a new revolutionary landmark for New York City. I feel like they will regret it in the future for not doing the originally designed spire.


I say we all start a massive nationwide protest about this. I am pretty sure about 90% (assumption) of the people in here want the original spire plans done and not this small little horrid Conde Nast stick on the nations new "tallest building."

[FreedomTower2013]

Well hold on silverstein properties also would have a say in this so it not like the port authority and the durst organazation can just finalize this whole thing without running it by the property owner and hopefully they wont allow this horrible change to ruin the World Trade Center. But we can only hope.

[SoaringSkylines]

Yeah, if the issue is one of maintenance, why the hell would they not have addressed that from the beginning, during the design phase?! I mean, HELLO!! Now isn't the time to be making major design changes, just a short time before the building tops out! They found an alternative solution for the base cladding, which is now being implemented, so could they find an alternative for the spire, without changing the visual design?? If they did change the spire into a skinny antenna, would the building still be 1776 feet tall?

All the news reports (including the Wall Street Journal) are still addressing this tower as 1,776 feet... THEN AGAIN, if we're seeing sudden changes to the building like we are doing now, don't even count on it. My hopes have been let down. I JUST WANT THIS THING BUILT BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE SCREWS IT UP!

[NewYorker2009]

While the Port Authority and Durst may be taking features away from the Tower it still has no effect on lowering the overall cost of the building because it is the opposite right now totaling nearly $4 Billion. The Radome won't work atop the building? Since when did Durst become experts in architecture, they are a real estate business. Their top priority should be to focus on their tenants. Skidmore Owings & Merrill along with David Childs would not have proposed the Radome spire if they didn't think the material couldn't be serviced or maintained atop the building. Durst is just making excuses. Well at least someone actually answered you NYCLuver.

[uaarkson]

Here is what I think folks. There is no way SOM won't push to at least dress the antenna up to resemble the spire visually.

[NewYorkSkyline117]

I think we should all calm down because after all, this hasn't even been confirmed yet. I think as soon as they visually see what they're doing, they'll realize how fugly The design really is.

[NYCLuver]

I think we should all calm down because after all, this hasn't even been confirmed yet. I think as soon as they visually see what they're doing, they'll realize how fugly The design really is.

You think they'll care? The hundred antenna's on top of the Empire State Building ruins a lot of it, and they are still there.

I just hope we do not get a 4 Times Square looking antenna because on 4 Times Square it works, the top of the building already looks very mechanical... on 1 World Trade Center, it would look horrible and unfinished.

[NewYorkSkyline117]

You think they'll care? The hundred antenna's on top of the Empire State Building ruins a lot of it, and they are still there.

I just hope we do not get a 4 Times Square looking antenna because on 4 Times Square it works, the top of the building already looks very mechanical... on 1 World Trade Center, it would look horrible and unfinished.

I just don't understand why they would even let dunst propose an idea like that

[dchan]

Whatever the outcome turns out to be, this is just another event that goes to show you how much everything needs to be in sync between the owners, designers, and constructors early in the programming process. And these change are not the first with this building, which is part of the reason why costs have skyrocketed past the initial estimates. The podium glass design was changed because they discovered the intended material was unsafe when it shattered from explosions. They had to change the loading dock design very late in the process because of some major oversights. And now, they supposedly can't use the shell material for the spire because it's hard to clean (don't know about this until it's completely verified).

Some of these problems I can understand. Unlike other buildings, One WTC is what I would consider to be somewhat experimental when it comes to new materials. The construction industry tends to be more conservative when it comes to change than others because of its physical nature - if you build something with a new, untested material, and it performs unsatisfactorily, it's cumbersome and complicated to change it once it's already up.

So many of the problems that have arisen during the construction of One WTC has to do with the complicated program that it has to follow. It doesn't merely have to provide office space; it must also be the most secure and terrorism-resistant supertall in the world while simultaneously serving as America's symbol against terrorism and "freedom-haters". As such, it must have the aesthetic appeal while being built to extremely high standards in occupant protection and against structural failure. These two ideals are somewhat antithetical, and they are definitely expensive to design and build around.

So I don't fault the architects and engineers of the building because they designed with aesthetics in mind, but couldn't predict with certainty that the materials they had chosen were inadequate for the building's programming principles.* While the designers did come up with a decent design alternative to the podium glass, the fact that they needed to change it so drastically and so late in the construction process is symbolic of why the construction industry is generally so resistant to change.


* The oversight with the loading dock design, however, was just plain dumb and needlessly expensive. It just goes to show you how important communication is between all parties involved with a project.

[Dac150]

Is what it is - but this just goes to show that when cost cutting opportunities present themselves, they'll be jumped on. An antenna is an antenna, however I'm more concerned about the outcome of the transit hub - an antenna / spire is small potatoes compared to that.

[gramsjdg]

Hate to say it, but I guess I'm putting my hope in 432 Park which will now be NYC's tallest building... :(

They spend twice as much as it cost to build Burj Dubai which is twice as tall and now they pull this? What a friggin' joke.

[lake of the nations]

Guess what people: Eliminating the radome makes the spire into an antenna, just like the one on the original north tower.

No it doesn't.

[J_M_Tungsten]

Does this affect the final height?

[1Boston]

I'm surprised Durst has the ability to change the design of the spire into an antennae especially so late in the construction progress. Can they just do that or do that have to request it, cause it seems like it affects a lot of things like the entire design and height of the building. If they can then the PA is gonna have to stop advertising the "symbolic 1776'" thing.

[SoaringSkylines]

I'm surprised Durst has the ability to change the design of the spire into an antennae especially so late in the construction progress. Can they just do that or do that have to request it, cause it seems like it affects a lot of things like the entire design and height of the building. If they can then the PA is gonna have to stop advertising the "symbolic 1776'" thing.


Agreed. The building TECHNICALLY isn't even going to be 1,776 ft. Please correct me if I am wrong, but the precise measurement on the ground around the base to the very tip top tip of 1WTC, it will be 1,787 feet. (I'm even hearing 1,792; including the lightning rod).

THEN AGAIN, that may change now since apparently it's okay to do sudden changes to the architecture.

[rjb001]

Does this affect the final height?

The is the one question I'd like to know the answer to. They're not also making it slimmer, are they?

[Onn]

I agree, I mean, what's next? First off, let me say that I actually like the design for 1wtc (as envisioned by SOM and Childes) but it seems like things keep moving in the wrong direction..There was a huge opportunity to build a truly great, evocative, and cutting edge new World Trade Center. The powers that be apparently decided to go the cheap route, cutting corners whenever possible. Well guys, this is NOT the building to do that on!I actually made my peace with this building and it was growing on me, but if they actually change the spire it will look ridiculous. The proportions will be totally wrong. It will look like a skyscraper with a really bad haircut if they give it a skinny minny antenna. I guess at least it will still have the indoor observation decks, which will be nice, and the building will be the same height as the old towers...But they need to leave the design ALONE!!!!

Like someone forgetting to put bathrooms in the Memorial Plaza? Clearly a bunch of amateurs are designing everything. This spire redesign should not come as a surprise to anyone, by the way! The Port Authority has been trying to cheapify the project from the beginning! We're lucky to be getting a tower at all, there were far worse, and probably cheaper, proposals for rebuilding the site. An antenna would be a huge downgrade for sure. My issue is that this could mean the tower losing its 1776 ft height, meaning it would be even less out of contention for world's tallest building. What a total disgrace. :(

[CarlosV]

^^^
FYI, it was decided "to respect the memorial plaza" that no toilets would be build above ground. they will be located in the museum below (for a price).

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7190/6959546597_f3f1b230bf_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ceva321/6959546597/)
DSC_0077 copy (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ceva321/6959546597/) by Ceva321 (http://www.flickr.com/people/ceva321/), on Flickr

[Onn]

^^^
FYI, it was decided "to respect the memorial plaza" that no toilets would be build above ground. they will be located in the museum below (for a price).

First I've heard of it, and I've been following the project for 5 years now. Second, that doesn't make any sense, where are people supposed to go to the bathroom?

[dchan]

First I've heard of it, and I've been following the project for 5 years now. Second, that doesn't make any sense, where are people supposed to go to the bathroom?

This isn't a large park, nor is it an isolated park in the middle of nowhere. For example, right across West St. is the Winter Garden, which has excellent bathroom facilities.

[sterlippo1]

First I've heard of it, and I've been following the project for 5 years now. Second, that doesn't make any sense, where are people supposed to go to the bathroom?

in the museum below:D

[aquablue]

If they change the spire, I'd be very upset. For one thing, it would show that NY really doesn't give a shit about aesthetics, just business. A site like this is so visually important. Putting dollars over aesthetics is just philistine behavior.

[NYC GUY]

What exactly is the radome of the spire?

[NYC GUY]

1 WTC seeks broadcast antenna to lure stations
Share

The Associated Press
Published: Tuesday, Mar. 6, 2012 - 6:14 am
NEW YORK -- Officials at the 1,776-foot World Trade Center tower want to install a broadcast antenna in an effort to attract radio and television stations currently broadcasting from the Empire State Building.

The senior vice president of the Durst Organization, Thomas Bow, tells the Wall Street Journal (http://on.wsj.com/xupqXR) the development firm wants the tower to become the premiere broadcast facility in New York City, just like the original towers had been before the terrorist attacks in 2001.

A spokesman for Malkin Holdings, an owner of the Empire State Building, declined to comment.

Durst says it expects to be able to take in about $10 million a year in rents and fees from potential broadcasters.

The tower is currently under construction. It's expected to be completed at the end of 2013.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/03/06/4315051/1-wtc-seeks-broadcast-antenna.html#storylink=cpy

Found this article online.

[gramsjdg]

No it doesn't.

Yes it does. CTBUH defines a spire as an architectural feature. The radome on the ANTENNA MAST is what makes it a spire as the radome is an architectural feature. In removing that element the spire is no longer a spire but an antenna mast, therefore the height of the building without the radome is 1368 ft.

[Yankee fan for life]

What the wall street article is saying is that a interior antenna will be installed and the outer cone casing will be thinner and less conical then the original design and from what,i am hearing through the grape vine is that the Radome will be removed.

[cadiomals]

If it ends up looking like the ugly thin needles on top of the New York Times, Conde Nast and Bank of America buildings, I'm gonna be pissed. I never bought into the whole 1776 feet tall hype in the first place but this definitely will not count. At least the radome spire was actually a spire, noticeable and somewhat artistic. This will be nothing.

[Yankee fan for life]

Can some one show me where does it define that the criteria for a spire must have a Radome casing because the only purpose for a Radome is for structural, weatherproofing.

[marshall]

So, if they make the spire into a skinny antenna, will that decrease the height? Will it still be 1776 feet? Personally, I always thought that arbitrary 1776 height figure was stupid anyway, I mean, the real measure of height is a building's structure, not the antenna or spire on top..Thats where the real height comes from..Also, 1wtc will only be the same height as the old twin towers if the parapet is on the roof, not the roof slab itself...If they were going to keep changing the design like this, why even bother? Personally, among the final WTC designs, I was in favor of Norman Foster's "Kissing Towers" it was much taller and more interesting architecturally....I like 1wtc, but the spire is SUCH an integral part of its design because of how it tapers, they need to leave the damn thing ALONE!!

[SoaringSkylines]

Will someone please provide us with renderings NOW with what it "may" look like?

Like if it DOES happen, give us a speculation picture of that ugly skinny stick at the top.

[Towersteve]

Well this was a troll-ish remark. We're already at the top and yet people want more and more...sheesh. It amazes me that after a decade, there's still an argument left. Get up with the times, people, the proposals are in the past. We have bigger things to worry about, so please, take your concerns to an appropriate thread.

Hearing things through the grapevine does not count as official information, especially from a group of journalists who don't know any better. You're better off awaiting official reports when NY Guy posts them.
This seems on topic to me. He mentions the spire revision proposal and the buildings design. I understand why it's annoying to bring up the design at this point but I don't think it makes someone a troll. I would feel like its a bait and switch if they change the spire at this point. But until such a decision is made (not proposed) I am not that concerned about it. Have a good day everybody.

[marshall]

Well this was a troll-ish remark. We're already at the top and yet people want more and more...sheesh. It amazes me that after a decade, there's still an argument left. Get up with the times, people, the proposals are in the past. We have bigger things to worry about, so please, take your concerns to an appropriate thread.

Hearing things through the grapevine does not count as official information, especially from a group of journalists who don't know any better. You're better off awaiting official reports when NY Guy posts them.


Okay first off, it was not a trollish remark, I was making a point relevant to the last few comments regarding the spire that they should NOT consider changing the spire design, period! I'm sure I am among the vast majority who have followed 1wtc who think they should not change the design anymore. As I stated, I'm fine with 1WTC if they just leave it alone, and not change the spire. Hopefully they won't. Period.

[Roadcruiser1]

To stop the arguments in this thread I decided to do a research on masts. Technically even if the radome is removed and the spire is made skinny it would still be a mast. From what I read as long as a mast on a structure is held up by stays or guy wires it is a mast and therefore would be part of the structure. Therefore One World Trade Center is 1,776 feet high when complete.

To prove it.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mast

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_masts_and_towers

The terms "mast" and "tower" are often used interchangeably. However, in structural engineering terms, a tower is a self-supporting or cantilevered structure, while a mast is held up by stays or guys. Broadcast engineers in the UK use the same terminology. In US broadcast engineering, a tower is an antenna structure attached to the ground, whereas a mast is a vertical antenna support mounted on some other structure (which itself may be a tower, a building, or a vehicle). Masts (to use the civil engineering terminology) tend to be cheaper to build but require an extended area surrounding them to accommodate the guy wires. Towers are more commonly used in cities where land is in short supply.

Look at Otie's picture. Credits to Otie of course. The mast is held up by guy wires. As long as it is held up by those wires it counts as part of the building. Correct me Otie if I am wrong since I just read this up online. I only study buildings so I am not an expert on masts.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7199/6901324031_0519beeb16_b.jpg

[NYC GUY]

^^^
So do they plan to keep the outer layer, remove the outer layer and make it look like 4 times square, or keep the outer layer just make it thinner?

[Roadcruiser1]

^^^
So do they plan to keep the outer layer, remove the outer layer and make it look like 4 times square, or keep the outer layer just make it thinner?

I don't really know much about masts. Since I am only studying structures I haven't study masts yet so I don't really know.

[SoaringSkylines]

I just now made an attempt to call Durst Organization and ask them questions for you guys (and of course for my eager self) about the new antenna proposal.
I called and a woman answered and I told her I would like to "ask a few questions regarding the antenna on 1WTC."

- She said "Okay. One moment" and transferred me to Tom Bow, who didn't answer. So I left him a voice message and I am hope he returns my call.

If anyone out there would like to try to get a hold of someone at the organization, call 212-257-6600.

I'll let you guys know ASAP if I hear anything back.

[NewYorkSkyline117]

I can't believe this is happening. This is symbolism, not commercialism.

[NYguy]

The spire as originally designed was supposed to be an open structure. The radome was supposedly added so the antenna wouldn't be exposed to the elements, making for easier maintenance. Now people at Durst are saying the exact opposite.


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141925554/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141925555/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141925556/original.jpg


The redesign was an improvement, various faces below...


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/91204051/large.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/98943545/large.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/91172572/large.jpg



The most important aspect of this tower, from the time of its conception, has been the spire. It's not some added on afterthought, as was the original WTC antenna. It's an important feature, and should be treated as such. Hopefully, whatever revisions are made will be based on that.




http://therealdeal.com/blog/2012/03/06/durst-port-authority-plan-broadcast-antenna-for-1-wtc/
Durst, PA plan broadcast antenna for 1 WTC

http://therealdeal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/1wtc-radio.jpg
Thomas Bow, senior vice president at Durst

March 06, 2012


The antenna would be located inside a slimmer, less conical spire than initially planned that would save $20 million but drew criticism from the project’s architects, Skidmore Owings & Merrill. Durst would fund $27 million in infrastructure and buildout costs to help land the tenants.




http://www.wirelessestimator.com/t_content.cfm?pagename=Cell%20Towers
Dominating Manhattan's skyline, country's largest radome will be 408 feet, but is years away

February 1, 2008

After further review, Childs now says that those ideas, which exposed the actual antenna to the air, were impractical. He said that the more open designs would cause the potential for ice to accumulate and fall to Manhattan streets and make the mast impossible to maintain at such a height. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the $2.9 billion Freedom Tower, and architects Skidmore Owings & Merrill have come to an agreement upon what the antenna will look like. The mast will constitute the project's top 408 feet. The current design, pictured above, done in consultation with sculptor Ken Snelson, shrouds the antenna in a radome that is invisible to the broadcast signals that easily transmit through it.

In an industry whose ego feeds off of superlatives, some observers believe that the Freedom Tower's radome will be the tallest in the world, surpassing the CN Tower in Toronto, Canada.



http://www.wirelessestimator.com/wifi/images/uploads/CN%20Broadcast%20Tower.jpg

[Yankee fan for life]

i am pretty hopeful that 1wtc antenna will have a casing over it it will just be a little thinner and probably be made of a cheaper material.

[CarlosV]

all this fuss over nothing, really guys just wait...and see what happens. :)

[NYguy]

I wouldn't call it a nothing. As mentioned, the spire is the most prominent feature of this tower, in fact, of the master plan itself. This tower has been consistently redesigned - from head to toe. It may be true that the final result has to be seen, and judgment can be based on that. However, we've already seen enough information to form judgment: the spire will be a "thinner" and open structure. A less prominent spire is the opposite of the way we should be going here. Let's just hope it's not completely ruined.



RBudhu (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanbudhu/6809416720/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7184/6809416720_b2b7b6e46e_b.jpg

[NewYorkSkyline117]

In all the articles, it says "would be exposed..." this isn't even confirmed so no need to freak out..whoops

[marshall]

Yeah, I guess we need to wait for official word, but if it aint broke, don't fix it, and the spire in its current design just works for the overall style of the building, so they need to leave it alone.

[NYguy]

the spire in its current design just works for the overall style of the building, so they need to leave it alone.

It does, and they should...


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/137361302/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/137527575/original.jpg


We'll see. The building is close to topping off, so we're at the point where renderings are likely ready to be "leaked".

[QUEENSNYMAN]

It does, and they should...


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/137361302/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/137527575/original.jpg


We'll see. The building is close to topping off, so we're at the point where renderings are likely ready to be "leaked".

I agree NYGUY!

[Otie]

This is definetly not a cost issue, the revenue generated by the broadcast facilities in two years could cover the construction costs of the current radome design; I rather prefer seeing an exposed antenna for two years than seeing a cheaper, thinner, uglier and most importantly permanent enclosure that either way will be printed in New York's culture. I encourage you people to contact Durst by emailing (info@durst.org) or making a call to 212.257.6600; the more request they get, the bigger the chance their brains could start to work.

[NYC GUY]

Shouldn't Childs have the most say in what they do with the spire since HE's the architect?

[dchan]

Shouldn't Childs have the most say in what they do with the spire since HE's the architect?

The owner(s) of the building have the most say, not the architect.

[jd3189]

I hope to all that exists that the spire's redesign is rejected. I've had a lot of hope for this tower and this bullcrap is too hard to handle. I swear,I haven't been this mad about this project since they canceled the restaurant and outdoor observation deck. Sometimes, like Zapatan, I feel as though the U.S. government should have been funding the rebuilding of the WTC ever since, because quite obviously smallass private companies and bi-state institutions can't do any shit right. Sorry to curse,but I'm pissed. Every potential this tower had before has been abused for the sake of saving money. I'm about to lose hope for this city and this economy.

[SoaringSkylines]

I hope to all that exists that the spire's redesign is rejected. I've had a lot of hope for this tower and this bullcrap is too hard to handle. I swear,I haven't been this mad about this project since they canceled the restaurant and outdoor observation deck. Sometimes, like Zapatan, I feel as though the U.S. government should have been funding the rebuilding of the WTC ever since, because quite obviously smallass private companies and bi-state institutions can't do any shit right. Sorry to curse,but I'm pissed. Every potential this tower had before has been abused for the sake of saving money. I'm about to lose hope for this city and this economy.

Tell me about it! They just KEEP ON downgrading her. First, it was the restaurant. Next, it was the outdoor observation deck. Now, it's probably going to be a downgrade of the spire. What's next? NO OBSERVATION DECK AT ALL? HEIGHT REDUCED?

You're not the only one furious over this. I am like obsessed with the whole WTC project and they just keep on ruining it over and over. People and developers in say of this need to understand that this IS NOT JUST ANY OTHER BUILDING. This is the World Trade Center we're dealing with. This is the new face of America.

[Roadcruiser1]

I am certain that Minoru Yamasaki if he was alive today would be extremely upset with the designs and the work of the current World Trade Center. It's so slow, inefficient, and every corner is being cut.

[cadiomals]

These selfish greedy people don't seem to understand that One WTC is much more than just another building to profit from, it is both a landmark and memorial that everyone in and around New York will be forced to look at for hopefully a very long time. I say we call/e-mail these people and hope the humans inside them hear. It will be a disgraceful sad disappointing infuriating shame if that spire/antenna does not look half decent when its built. This is not about the aesthetics of the spire as much as it is about the selfishness of an elite few that has allowed this project to be run into the ground.:hell:

[jsr]

I am certain that Minoru Yamasaki if he was alive today would be extremely upset with the designs and the work of the current World Trade Center. It's so slow, inefficient, and every corner is being cut.

Yea, nothing like that ever happened with his WTC design. :rolleyes: