NEW YORK | One World Trade Center | 1,776' Pinnacle / 1,373' Roof | 108 FLOORS

[PMadFlyer]

16-ton spire section on flatbed waiting to be hoisted

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/601508_444086825668561_1304463636_n.jpg
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=444086825668561&set=a.133475800063000.32624.109423129134934&type=1&theater


spine...with ribs poking out...

This is the second to last segment. The beacon section rests on the top of it above the platform at the far end. Below this section there appears to be a four sided open section being either tube or thick plate based. Once I see that piece I should be able to model the last two sections.

[ih8pickingusernames]

Man, this antenna is ugly. Why didn't they just scrap it?

[mistermetAJ]

Since they are going to put a massive pole on top WTC1, they might as well attach a massive American flag to it as well. At least it would have some sort of symbolism for the country. Might as well inspire people and get their mind off the ugly.

[mistermetAJ]

Man, this antenna is ugly. Why didn't they just scrap it?

It takes the tower to a symbolic height (which I guess is all that matters, and not the design of HOW they got to the height).

[Yankee fan for life]

Man, this antenna is ugly. Why didn't they just scrap it?

I personally like 1 wtc mast at certain angles and,certain points of light it does look all that bad,still have to wait for the finished product.

[ih8pickingusernames]

It takes the tower to a symbolic height (which I guess is all that matters, and not the design of HOW they got to the height).

I thought it was supposed to represent a giant candle, as a tribute or something. Lol, well you got the wick but no wax. Disaster. :titanic:

[Kurtz]

Radome vs Steel is pontless.
The point is bad deign vs good design.
Anyway that last segment we see above is ugly as hell :???:
the most beautiful design for an antenna or a spire would be a spire that you should not notice because of its elegance and continuity with the shape of the building.
a spire you have to see, but should be invisible

[jmatero]

Anyway that last segment we see above is ugly as hell :???:

It wasn't designed to look attractive from 10 feet away.

This is atrocious from 10 feet away...
http://www.necrat.us/empirefm-1.jpg

But the world looks up and sees this...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3211/2705695599_aa422a6e82_b.jpg

[marvelfannumber1]

:previous:
To be honest i personally find the ESBs antenna ugly from far away aswell. Good i am consistent i guess :notacrook:

[MercurySky]

Man, this antenna is ugly. Why didn't they just scrap it?

I really like it. It matches other antennas around the city.

[LouisVanDerWright]

It matches other antennas around the city.

Yeah, they all match in that they are all pretty ugly. Well not the NYT building, but the Conde Nast, ESB, and BofA are only attractive in a "dystopian" kind of way.

I don't think this looks good because it doesn't fit with the aesthetic. This is a sleek modern building, it should have a sleek modern spire like NYT does.

Edit: I should say I don't mind BofA's spire as much as the others, but it is like a pencil and is the termination of a big, fat, hulking building. Just don't like how it terminates. Not graceful like Chrysler or AIG.

[ethereal_reality]

One World Trade Center breaking through the cloud cover on Monday night.

http://imageshack.us/a/img716/3715/aaboneworldtradeincloud.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2292747/Looming-large-Stunning-photo-One-World-Trade-Center-shows-New-Yorks-tallest-building-breaking-clouds.html
__

[PhillyToNYC]

Awesome photo, I like the spire. I think that we need to wait for construction rings to come down before we judge, because they make it look much different that what it will really look like.

[mt_climber13]

The antennae is strong, industrial, masculine, and looks awesome. Y'all need to quit yo bitchin.

[PhillyToNYC]

The antennae is strong, industrial, masculine, and looks awesome. Y'all need to quit yo bitchin.

I agree. I think that it resonates with New York, and that it ties the building into the way the rest of the city looks. Don't get me wrong, this is a great building, but with the old spire I thought that it looked slightly out of place.

[NYguy]

The antennae is strong, industrial, masculine, and looks awesome. Y'all need to quit yo bitchin.

They'll quit "bitchin" I guess when people stop talking about how "awesome" it looks. Then again, maybe not, because the design won't change. But face it, some people don't like it, and they'll say it. Some people do like it, and they'll say it as well. What you won't see is people who don't like it "bitchin" about the people who do. That tells me some people can't handle the truth, or others opinions, however you wanna look at it.



since1968 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/since1968/8554021990/sizes/h/in/photostream/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8086/8554021990_b1acb1004e_h.jpg



lensepix (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lensepix/8554387039/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8104/8554387039_409d9f624b_b.jpg

[Towersteve]

The antennae is strong, industrial, masculine, and looks awesome. Y'all need to quit yo bitchin.

How the antenna looks is purely opinion. As long as it's not falsely called a spire when it's clearly an antenna.

[mt_climber13]

They'll quit "bitchin" I guess when people stop talking about how "awesome" it looks. Then again, maybe not, because the design won't change. But face it, some people don't like it, and they'll say it. Some people do like it, and they'll say it as well. What you won't see is people who don't like it "bitchin" about the people who do. That tells me some people can't handle the truth, or others opinions, however you wanna look at it.





y so srs bro?

[patrick989]

How the antenna looks is purely opinion. As long as it's not falsely called a spire when it's clearly an antenna.

Yeah exactly. People like it, people don't. It really doesn't matter, it's not going to change anything and nobody is right or wrong in their own opinions of how they think it looks.

[laser110]

Was back in Downtown Manhattan today talking with the company I have been talking with for a new position. After my meeting took a walk to South Street Seaport for lunch and shot this pic walking up Fulton St. The neat part about that walk is as you walk up Fulton from the East River, you can't see 1WTC, the street bends a little and there it is! Which is there I took this shot.


I also noticed on my way home around 2PM they were lifting something to the top of the building. Using the taller crane, so maybe another spire peice? Hard to tell and gauge size from where I was, but it looked big.

Scott

http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv298/laser110/IMAG0016_zps46687596.jpg

[kpdrummer82]

Why is nobody mentioning the fact that the communications ring looks 100x better than it did in any of the newer renderings?

[jmatero]

Why is nobody mentioning the fact that the communications ring looks 100x better than it did in any of the newer renderings?

They haven't put up the communications rings yet... just the base which is a window washing track.

[PMadFlyer]

They haven't put up the communications rings yet... just the base which is a window washing track.

Even then, the picture from the roof shows that the track has an upper and a lower rail instead of the three that appeared in all of the renders. I have no clew what will be built. I'm not disappointed though. Its nice to see it go up.

[Yankee fan for life]

How the antenna looks is purely opinion. As long as it's not falsely called a spire when it's clearly an antenna.

It's a mast... mast... mast... mast ...mast !and one more for the road a mast! their will no broadcasting equipment on it! sorry but i am so sick and tired of people calling 1 wtc mast and antenna.

[PMadFlyer]

It's a mast... mast... mast... mast ...mast !and one more for the road a mast! their will no broadcasting equipment on it! sorry but i am so sick and tired of people calling 1 wtc mast and antenna.

It's a mast that has dozens of attachment points for antennas.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8368/8416008218_4fb8247e32.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmadflyer/8416008218/)
New section 3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmadflyer/8416008218/) by PMadFlyer (http://www.flickr.com/people/pmadflyer/), on Flickr
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8365/8414915953_42c4f9ea4d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmadflyer/8414915953/)
new section 5 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmadflyer/8414915953/) by PMadFlyer (http://www.flickr.com/people/pmadflyer/), on Flickr

[aquablue]

How the antenna looks is purely opinion. As long as it's not falsely called a spire when it's clearly an antenna.

If it is clearly an antenna, is the actual broadcasting part of the antenna housed inside, or is itself the visible spire structure? Or is that only on the rings? If only on the rings, the spire would not be a true antenna.

[TouchTheSky13]

If it is clearly an antenna, is the actual broadcasting part of the antenna housed inside, or is itself the visible spire structure? Or is that only on the rings? If only on the rings, the spire would not be a true antenna.

Only on the rings. There is no room in the interior of the mast. The interior is reserved for the access shaft for the beacon.

[aquablue]

Only on the rings. There is no room in the interior of the mast. The interior is reserved for the access shaft for the beacon.

If so, the mast is not an antenna. So, people stop calling it such!

[sw5710]

If you look at a picture of the old WTC you will see the 60' broadcast antenna mounted on top of the 300' grey and white mast.

[aquablue]

If you look at a picture of the old WTC you will see the 60' broadcast antenna mounted on top of the 300' grey and white mast.

Well, apparently this isn't the case here as the antenna is not above or inside the main mast. Thus, the mast should be considered a spire given that the broadcasting equipment is to be located on the rings only. If this is indeed the case, the fact that people call the spire an antenna is erroneous and is confusing to many. However, if the broadcasting equipment is to be attached to the mast rather than constrained to the rings, I would have to say that to me it would appear to be a hybrid spire/antenna.

[meh_cd]

All of this doublespeak regarding the mast is getting out of control. Durst is now claiming that it is a spire because the broadcast equipment will only be suspended from it. Absurd. I think if we keep trying to split the hair we might run into the individual atoms.

You can clearly see on PMad's renderings and on the various sections themselves where the equipment will be placed in the future. It isn't just going to sit there bare for all eternity, people.

[TechTalkGuy]

I avoided posting here for a few days and now it's out of control again. :shrug:

Seriously, who cares what YOU call it.
Spire, antenna, mast, rod, toothpick, needle, pencil, etc.

I call it a spire and everyone else can call it whatever they like.

[aquablue]

All of this doublespeak regarding the mast is getting out of control. Durst is now claiming that it is a spire because the broadcast equipment will only be suspended from it. Absurd. I think if we keep trying to split the hair we might run into the individual atoms.

You can clearly see on PMad's renderings and on the various sections themselves where the equipment will be placed in the future. It isn't just going to sit there bare for all eternity, people.

I see, so the previous poster who claimed the comm. equipment would only be on the lower comm. rings is incorrect and the mast itself will support various antenna equipment? If so, I take back what I said about it being a spire not an antenna. It is basically overall an antenna then in my mind, even though the mast structure itself won't be transmitting anything at all. I'm rather disappointed that the already ugly spire/mast without the covering will be further degraded by the addition of more ugly protruding antennas. I was falsely led to believe that the mast would be virgin while the rings would be where all that ugly stuff would go.



I avoided posting here for a few days and now it's out of control again. :shrug:

Seriously, who cares what YOU call it.
Spire, antenna, mast, rod, toothpick, needle, pencil, etc.

I call it a spire and everyone else can call it whatever they like.

Given that the diagram shows that there will be antennas attached to the main spire/mast, I think it is a stretch to call it a spire now. It is a hybrid at best.

[StrongIsland]

It's not an antenna, it's not a spire...it's a mast. If it was an antenna it would be functional by itself which it's NOT. It's just going to be a decent looking mast...and from far away you won't even notice all the small antennas on it really anyway...I'm very confident they will count this towards the buildings height...it's part of the building so it has every right to be counted...

[NYguy]

It can be called a mast, it can be called an antenna (yes, it will be functional). But it will only be a spire if it is determined to be an architectural element of the tower itself. That's still possible, but seeing as it wasn't designed to be so, it's highly questionable.

Of course, in either case, some may decide to call it a spire anyway, but that won't make it so. I could call an apple an orange, but that doesn't make it so either.
I like to stay grounded in reality.



Joel Raskin (http://www.flickr.com/photos/joelrnyc/8555529695/sizes/c/in/photostream/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8516/8555529695_da96f3e2df_c.jpg



http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8516/8555529695_da96f3e2df_b.jpg



Older skyline rendering...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/149201201/original.jpg
Taken from...http://archpaper.com/news/articles.asp?id=6542

[HomrQT]

It can be called a mast, it can be called an antenna (yes, it will be functional). But it will only be a spire if it is determined to be an architectural element of the tower itself. That's still possible, but seeing as it wasn't designed to be so, it's highly questionable.

Of course, in either case, some may decide to call it a spire anyway, but that won't make it so. I could call an apple an orange, but that doesn't make it so either.
I like to stay grounded in reality.



Joel Raskin (http://www.flickr.com/photos/joelrnyc/8555529695/sizes/c/in/photostream/)




Older skyline rendering...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/149201201/original.jpg
Taken from...http://archpaper.com/news/articles.asp?id=6542

Wow the Verizon building looks so bad....

[StrongIsland]

I get what your saying NYguy and I agree mostly except for the fact that it will only be functional in the sense of being lit and having antennas attached but without all that it is just a part of the building, I can almost guarantee it will be counted whether or not what it's called because let's be honest after all these years of pushing the "symbolic 1,776 feet" they will find a way to make sure the height is counted and I will be shocked of they don't because almost everyone knows that's the "official" height of the building. The radome was ugly anyway, the open lattice was the best design for the spire(mast,antenna whatever at this point) by far.

[antinimby]

It's a mastenna!

[george]

I don't care what it's called, it fits in perfectly now and it gets better every day.

[hunser]

NestorDesigns (http://www.flickr.com/photos/nestorimages/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8238/8552597606_e975d93861_k.jpg


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8247/8553657094_e1fb432d49_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmarella/8553657094/)
Gateway To Manhattan ! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmarella/8553657094/) von pmarella (http://www.flickr.com/people/pmarella/) auf Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8236/8550433711_13c466a4f9_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmarella/8550433711/)
One WTC Lower Manhattan (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmarella/8550433711/) von pmarella (http://www.flickr.com/people/pmarella/) auf Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8384/8555120139_450b28dc04_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/keithmichaelnyc/8555120139/)
Dangling a Lure (http://www.flickr.com/photos/keithmichaelnyc/8555120139/) von Keith Michael NYC (http://www.flickr.com/people/keithmichaelnyc/) auf Flickr

[Ed007Toronto]

Seriously, who cares what YOU call it.
Spire, antenna, mast, rod, toothpick, needle, pencil, etc.

I call it a spire and everyone else can call it whatever they like.


I'm going to call it a cookie! Is that how the english language works?

[NYguy]

I get what your saying NYguy and I agree mostly except for the fact that it will only be functional in the sense of being lit and having antennas attached

It will be functional. Do you really think they would be building this thing if they didn't intend to use it? I don't understand what's so hard to grasp about it.



But anyway, the battle for broadcasting supremacy in New York heats up...


http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/66149/nycs-towering-tv-choice-1-wtc-or-empire
NYC's Towering TV Choice: 1 WTC Or Empire
The new One World Trade Center is pitching New York City broadcasters on moving their transmitting operations to the 105-story building in 2015,
promising a facility that's "future-proof" with better over-the-air coverage than the Empire State Building


By Andrew Dodson
March 14, 2013


The Durst Organization, the New York real estate powerhouse that is managing and leasing One World Trade Center, is now pitching broadcasters in the nation’s largest TV market on moving their antennas to the building, promising future-proof technology and better coverage.

“One World Trade Center gives broadcasters an opportunity to move to a new, upgraded facility with antennas specifically designed to handle their needs,” says John Lyons, Durst assistant VP and director of broadcast communications.

“It’s another option in the market. We just want to give them the best coverage possible. Broadcasters can have the confidence that this site will have the technology they need that’s future-proof and viable for the next 50 to 70 years.”

The terrorist attacks of 9/11 brought down the broadcast tower and transmitters of the major TV stations atop the north Twin Tower. In the aftermath, the stations worked quickly to restore their over-the-air service by using back-up facilities at the Empire State Building, 4 Times Square (4TS) and other locations. Since then, the major stations have settled on Empire State for their primary broadcasts.

Much is at stake in whether broadcasters stay on Empire State or accept Durst's invitation to move to lower Manhattan.

Much is at stake in whether broadcasters stay on Empire State or accept Durst's invitation to move to lower Manhattan. In a 2012 prospectus for an IPO, the Empire State Building acknowledged that lease payments from 16 TV station and 19 radio stations produced revenue of $16.1 million in 2010 and $11.8 million in the first three quarters of 2011. The prospectus noted the average remaining years of the broadcast leases was 7.5 years and that 1 WTC represented a competitive threat.

According to Lyons, the 105-story 1 WTC will have building engineers on duty 24/7, two megawatts of back-up power dedicated to broadcasting and communications operations, 24-hour access, chilled and condensed water available for transmitter cooling, fiber and copper access lines and hydraulic lift gates at loading docks.

Broadcasters could move into 1 WTC as early as 2015 when the building begins to open up, says Lyons, adding they currently have leases with Empire stations or 4TS that end as early as 2015 and as late as 2019. Durst also manages 4TS.

“They may decide to add 1 WTC as a backup or turn Empire into their backup and have 1 World Trade as their primary — there are several options for them," says Lyons.

Jeff Birch, CBS Television Stations VP of engineering and president of the MTVA, declined to comment for this story.

“WABC, and I think all broadcasters, are listening with an open mind to what the folks at the World Trade Center are saying, but nothing is ever simple and more questions are being raised,” says Kurt Hanson, WABC chief engineer. “The analysis between Empire and WTC needs to be analyzed and vetted as to which is best for our viewers and the station.” Hanson also wants to know more about the technology going into 1 WTC to see if it’s worth leaving Empire.

Oded Bendov, designer of the antenna array at the original World Trade Center, serves as a consultant for the MTVA, helping spell out the technical advantages and disadvantages of moving to 1WTC.

At 1,776 feet, 1WTC is 300 feet higher than Empire, providing a platform for sending broadcast signals deep into New Jersey, Connecticut and Long Island. But that height is also a handicap, Bendov says. “It’s so high that typical UHF antennas may deliver too little power in the first few miles,” he says. “And that’s compounded by the FCC saying you need to lower the power as you go higher.”

[Dallas Snob]

For the sake of NOT casuing a new plethora of senseless dribble....The 'THING" that is attached to the top of 1WTC, and sticks up into the air...there have been many opinions about hating it, loving it, whatever. I think that what some people are attempting to say is, that by itself it is interesting to look at...and...on another building could be stunning. Given the sleek, modern design of the building, the harsh, angular, starkness of the "THING" that "sticks up into the air" doesn't seem to "fit" like the sexy, sleek, previous radome did wiht the building's design. That's all. I don't mind the "THING"...just doesn't seem to meld with the overall design. But I'm sure that I will get over it...and probably sooner than I should. : )

[Thaniel]

For the sake of NOT casuing a new plethora of senseless dribble....The 'THING" that is attached to the top of 1WTC, and sticks up into the air...there have been many opinions about hating it, loving it, whatever. I think that what some people are attempting to say is, that by itself it is interesting to look at...and...on another building could be stunning. Given the sleek, modern design of the building, the harsh, angular, starkness of the "THING" that "sticks up into the air" doesn't seem to "fit" like the sexy, sleek, previous radome did wiht the building's design. That's all. I don't mind the "THING"...just doesn't seem to meld with the overall design. But I'm sure that I will get over it...and probably sooner than I should. : )

I think One WTC's 'Thing That Sticks Up Into the Air' looks great. lol I just wished it was finished for my trip there next week.

[fimiak]

It is interesting that this is simultaneously the best and the worst thread on the forum.

[NYGrail]

To try and get off the spire/antennae debate for a bit, lol, I found some old stock photos online of the John Hancock building being built. I think its construction resembles 1wtc a bit.

Take a look:

http://i45.tinypic.com/20rw5zo.jpg

[TouchTheSky13]

There will be very pieces of broadcasting equipment attatched to the MAST because they would not put things that emit radiation close to an access shaft used by workers to maintain the beacon. That is wreckless and dangerous. Most, if not all communications equipment will be placed in the rings. The mast that is being constructed now is purely the skeleton upon which the radome enclosure was supposed to be attached. There may be a few attenas attatched here and there, but only those which require greater altitudes for a clearer signal.

[aquablue]

There will be very pieces of broadcasting equipment attatched to the MAST because they would not put things that emit radiation close to an access shaft used by workers to maintain the beacon. That is wreckless and dangerous. Most, if not all communications equipment will be placed in the rings. The mast that is being constructed now is purely the skeleton upon which the radome enclosure was supposed to be attached. There may be a few attenas attatched here and there, but only those which require greater altitudes for a clearer signal.

So how many actual transmitting devices will be placed on the mast in comparison to the rings?

[Thaniel]

There will be very pieces of broadcasting equipment attatched to the MAST because they would not put things that emit radiation close to an access shaft used by workers to maintain the beacon. That is wreckless and dangerous. Most, if not all communications equipment will be placed in the rings. The mast that is being constructed now is purely the skeleton upon which the radome enclosure was supposed to be attached. There may be a few attenas attatched here and there, but only those which require greater altitudes for a clearer signal.

Radio wave radiation is non-ionizing meaning it can't affect molecular processes inside your body. You could literally sleep on top of a radio transmitter all day and night and never get any radiation that could harm you. It can raise your body temperature, just like a microwave could but it can't do anything else. And it couldn't even heat your body nearly as much as a microwave could because of it's frequency.

[Yankee fan for life]

This forum is about expressing freely our ideas and opinions, but this forum is also about not deterring from what is fact, for those who come to this forum looking for information on 1 Wtc.

[laser110]

I don't get all the uproar over the spire. It's not finished yet. The peices look crude and will look crude until they are finished, all pieces have been added and the rings around it taken down.

All this talk about how it looks now and what it will look like is compariable to seeing Michaelangelo upon starting to carve "David" and after the first hammer strike declaring it ugly. Let the work be done and then pass judgement.

Scott

[pnapp1]

STOP THE MADNESS! :koko:

[QUEENSNYMAN]

Small video clip I took this morning before work, pictures to come.

By QUEENSNY121:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKZmG1aiGXM

[QUEENSNYMAN]

Some pics from this morning:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8101/8557426299_debce9f899_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/51949497@N08/8557426299/)
One World Trade Center (http://www.flickr.com/photos/51949497@N08/8557426299/) by NYMAN2010 (http://www.flickr.com/people/51949497@N08/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8523/8558535002_b11936565f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/51949497@N08/8558535002/)
One World Trade Center (http://www.flickr.com/photos/51949497@N08/8558535002/) by NYMAN2010 (http://www.flickr.com/people/51949497@N08/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8383/8557426161_700530b156_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/51949497@N08/8557426161/)
One World Trade Center (http://www.flickr.com/photos/51949497@N08/8557426161/) by NYMAN2010 (http://www.flickr.com/people/51949497@N08/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8506/8557426427_754d48a9c1_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/51949497@N08/8557426427/)
One World Trade Center (http://www.flickr.com/photos/51949497@N08/8557426427/) by NYMAN2010 (http://www.flickr.com/people/51949497@N08/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8094/8557425091_bf89c4a917_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/51949497@N08/8557425091/)
One World Trade Center (http://www.flickr.com/photos/51949497@N08/8557425091/) by NYMAN2010 (http://www.flickr.com/people/51949497@N08/), on Flickr

[StrongIsland]

lol I'm not fighting at all I'm actually amused with the amount of bitching that goes on here every day about the damn spire/antenna/mast I was simply stating about the functiability on it.

[NYguy]

Most, if not all communications equipment will be placed in the rings. The mast that is being constructed now is purely the skeleton upon which the radome enclosure was supposed to be attached. There may be a few attenas attatched here and there, but only those which require greater altitudes for a clearer signal.

That is not accurate. But even if it were, that puts it in the functional category. I don't know why it's so hard to accept, but what's being built now was never to be considered the spire. It was always meant to be inside the spire, from the time Childs revised the design. The design of the spire itself evolved from an oppen lattice structure to an enclosed radome one, but the antenna mast itself has been consistent. Don't confuse the two.



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/141925554/large.jpg



squirrel83 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/squirrel02/8558633744/sizes/z/in/photostream/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8378/8558633744_84d4656ac6_z.jpg



LDG2A (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ldg-2a/8557261745/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8237/8557261745_2e09e928c0_b.jpg




I was thinking earlier about what Malkin (Empire State) who partnered with Durst to blast plans for the Freedom Tower (repeating history) thought of Durst's plans to take business away from the ESB, and I came accross this old article again...

http://www.nysun.com/new-york/incredible-shrinking-freedom-tower/66714/

The Incredible Shrinking Freedom Tower

By GRACE RAUH
November 20, 2007

The symbolic centerpiece of the effort to rebuild ground zero, a 408-foot spire that brings the Freedom Tower to its projected height of 1,776 feet, could be jeopardized by a new technology emerging as an alternative to the broadcast antenna planned for the inside of the spire.

Some members of the Metropolitan Television Alliance, a collection of 11 broadcasters that has said it intends to use antennae installed on top of the Freedom Tower, have already been using multiple, low-power transmitters placed closer to street level, in lieu of a tall, single antenna. ION Media Networks, a member of the MTVA, is promoting the new technology and, earlier this month, the alliance began its own tests on a similar alternative system. A long-term contract with the television alliance worth hundreds of millions of dollars would be a key financial component to the $3 billion Freedom Tower project. Sources close to the negotiations have said a contract with broadcasters would net about $10 million a year in annual rent and that an antenna would cost more than $20 million to build.

In 2003, the television alliance said it intended to use a broadcast antenna on top of the tower once it was built, but at that stage the tower was projected to be completed by 2009. Now, Port Authority officials insist that the tower will be ready by 2012, but there is a degree of uncertainty in the real estate community that the goal will be met. In the interim, the MTVA has to find another solution, and earlier this month, it began tests on the new technology that could supplant the need for the Freedom Tower antenna.

A developer who runs the Empire State Building and who is a critic of the Freedom Tower plans, Anthony Malkin, said if broadcasters aren't planning to use the antenna, it shouldn't be built. "Common sense would say that it doesn't make a lot sense to build something for which the known user set is not prepared to make a commitment," Mr. Malkin said in an interview.


Durst and Malkin gang up on plans for the tower...I wonder if Malkin feels betrayed. Probably not. It's all business.


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/74671915/large.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/74671916/large.jpg



http://www.radioworld.com/article/developer-plans-broadcast-spire-for--wtc-in-new-york/213795

Durst expects its new broadcast center at 1 WTC to generate more than $10 million in rents and fees from broadcasters annually. Upfront capital costs to build the antenna are projected to be approximately $7.4 million, according to the developers. Projected total cost for the new building is now estimated at $3.9 billion, according to the NY Daily News.

Durst also operates rooftop broadcast facilities atop 4 Times Square in midtown Manhattan. The development firm is promoting the 1 WTC antenna as the city’s premium broadcast antenna platform. It plans to market both its locations to broadcasters with 1 WTC serving as a primary site with redundant power and 4 Times Square as backup, Durst stated in a press release.

The Empire State Building, 1,250 feet tall with a 204-foot antenna, is home to 19 FM stations — 14 on the master FM antenna — and most of the city’s digital television transmitters. Many radio and television broadcasters migrated to Empire after the collapse of the World Trade Center’s twin towers in the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. The former WTC’s North Tower featured a 360-foot broadcast mast.

[Davidsam52]

Anyone got updated photos of the base cladding? We need some now that KPI cams are off the air.....

[TheCap'n]

I think the lighting of the mast at night, as well as the rotating beacon are going to give many of the mast-haters a completely new perspective. Time will tell.

[PZelda]

1 and 4 WTC both almost match now with amount of cladding that's left. :D

[NYguy]

BTW, for those who don't want to read or post in the thread, you don't have to announce it, just don't.


I think the lighting of the mast at night, as well as the rotating beacon are going to give many of the mast-haters a completely new perspective. Time will tell.


I think the lighting will be spectacular. Even the lighting of the Conde Nast antenna looks nice at night. That is a different thing altogether from the design though. And I really wouldn't want it to be judged on that, because you could shine a light on a rock, and it could look great too. You don't look at the Chrysler and say, "you know what it needs? More light, and a beacon." But we are supposed to get a great light show here, and I hope it can somehow play off of the light show at the New York Wheel accross the harbor.



truthinpassingx (http://www.flickr.com/photos/14333661@N03/8558819380/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

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Gary Dunaier (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gary_dunaier/8559196536/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

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seejordan (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jordanseej/8557873229/sizes/o/in/photostream/)

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[Totojuice]

As someone who has created a morning ritual every morning since the webcams were installed, a part of me will be a little sad once the construction is done. It's almost like giving birth to a baby (I imagine), except our 9 months have been 13 years in the making. Once we all give birth to this beautiful tower, and a scar on our city and souls is made just a little better, I imagine I will have a weird type of post-partum depression.

It's odd to say, but it will kind of bring everything full circle for me once again, and even typing this and imagining the completion of this building (and it's horrendous spiroskeletenna) makes me a wee bit emotional. It reminds me of what was and why we're here.

I will miss the daily fussing... the pictures, the anticipation, and even the crazies!

[rack776]

As someone who has created a morning ritual every morning since the webcams were installed, a part of me will be a little sad once the construction is done. It's almost like giving birth to a baby (I imagine), except our 9 months have been 13 years in the making. Once we all give birth to this beautiful tower, and a scar on our city and souls is made just a little better, I imagine I will have a weird type of post-partum depression.

It's odd to say, but it will kind of bring everything full circle for me once again, and even typing this and imagining the completion of this building (and it's horrendous spiroskeletenna) makes me a wee bit emotional. It reminds me of what was and why we're here.

I will miss the daily fussing... the pictures, the anticipation, and even the crazies!

Ha! there is 2 more towers to build yet....we will hopefully have those to watch rise & complain about soon;)

I went through "post construction depression" after seeing Phillys Comcast building finished.then before I knew it this one started to pop up above ground, there is always something
being built in the world to watch going up.

Look back a few hunderd pages and read the bitchin' about the glass not beeing clear enugh or that it is wavy....once the outside is done the inside and landscaping are next to complain about.

I hate the bare spire and only hope thay add some kind of decoritive element to it. I have voiced my opinion a few times, but dang I'm not on here every 6 hours
crying about the friggin spire. Damn the radome, I for one vote for a GIANT full scale inflatable King Kong to decorate the spire - Just to piss off to the ESB.

Crazies and trolls aside this whole forum is pretty damn cool:cool:
Thank goodness for the world wide computer internet web, web cams and locals with digital cameras or we would all be reading about construction updates in the news paper.

[TechTalkGuy]

I went through "post construction depression" after seeing Phillys Comcast building finished.then before I knew it this one started to pop up above ground, there is always something
being built in the world to watch going up.

Interestingly, I recall back when Liberty Place was built, the Comcast building was on the horizon, but took years of delays to be built.

Same thing is happening here at the World Trade Center where we have two iconic towers being built, while the other two are delayed (but hopefully, not for long).

[Bill Ditnow]

Sure, the spire sucks, compared to what was planned. The real problem, of course, is that the whole building sucks.

This is the best NYC can get to replace the Twins?

Don't worry, I won't press this opinion. I know it's not acceptable here and the last time I posted, months ago, I was subject to a vicious attack for expressing it.

But you should ask yourself why you are all lemmings in throwing yourself on this silly banal building. It's tripe, and it's a disgrace to NYC. It may have been fine in Pittsburgh, but not in NYC and certainly not in arguably the most important architectural site in America, where greatness was wanted and mediocrity is what we got.

The spire/mast/antenna is a side issue, a red herring.

[TechTalkGuy]

:goodpost: Wow, what an opinion! :rolleyes:

Thankfully, I don't agree with it, but that's not going to change the rebuilding efforts.

I am grateful for the many fine folks who risk their lives everyday to build One WTC. :cheers:

[GeorgiaBoy24]

But you should ask yourself why you are all lemmings in throwing yourself on this silly banal building. It's tripe, and it's a disgrace to NYC. It may have been fine in Pittsburgh, but not in NYC and certainly not in arguably the most important architectural site in America, where greatness was wanted and mediocrity is what we got.
I certainly won't call this building a disgrace but I think NYC deserves something truly incredible as the city's tallest. Something built to the height of the best there was 40 years ago and then sticking a cheap mast on top of it just doesn't cut it for me. Don't get me wrong, I love One WTC and the entire site. I just personally think this building would have suited Houston better than NYC though. But more supertalls are to come so I guess it's no real loss.

[NYguy]

This is the best NYC can get to replace the Twins?

Don't worry, I won't press this opinion. I know it's not acceptable here and the last time I posted, months ago, I was subject to a vicious attack for expressing it.



That's because this isn't a discussion about the Twins, as your post always seem to be.




remster_9 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47566319@N00/8557352990/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

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[Duck From NY]

It may have been fine in Pittsburgh
-
Pittsburgh is my favorite city in the country, and it has a great skyline (natural, and man-made), but it has no use for a 1400 foot building.

[2-TOWERS]

I certainly won't call this building a disgrace but I think NYC deserves something truly incredible as the city's tallest. Something built to the height of the best there was 40 years ago and then sticking a cheap mast on top of it just doesn't cut it for me. Don't get me wrong, I love One WTC and the entire site. I just personally think this building would have suited Houston better than NYC though. But more supertalls are to come so I guess it's no real loss.

Good Point of view, and we have 432 PARK THAT WILL BE THE TALLEST

[NYC GUY]

Sure, the spire sucks, compared to what was planned. The real problem, of course, is that the whole building sucks.

This is the best NYC can get to replace the Twins?

Don't worry, I won't press this opinion. I know it's not acceptable here and the last time I posted, months ago, I was subject to a vicious attack for expressing it.

But you should ask yourself why you are all lemmings in throwing yourself on this silly banal building. It's tripe, and it's a disgrace to NYC. It may have been fine in Pittsburgh, but not in NYC and certainly not in arguably the most important architectural site in America, where greatness was wanted and mediocrity is what we got.

The spire/mast/antenna is a side issue, a red herring.

I've thought about this also not saying I don't like 1 WTC or the rest of the towers I love them it's just that I feel they could have done ALOT better design and height wise. The original freedom tower design I would've thought to be fitting it the roof was truly to the full height not with some metal thing on top.
Or my personal feeling is that it should have been 1624 feet to the roof to symbolize the founding of New York then a spire going to 2001 feet to obviously symbolize 9/11 then a beacon sending a beam of light straight up symbolizing that New York has moved on and is looking forward.

[Thaniel]

Sure, the spire sucks, compared to what was planned. The real problem, of course, is that the whole building sucks.

This is the best NYC can get to replace the Twins?



The two tallest buildings in Lower Manhattan at this moment carry the name "World Trade Center". The taller of the two is the tallest building in New York City, New York state, and the Eastern United States.

"...and you're complaining??? What world do you live in?" -Walt, Breaking Bad

These buildings are visually a lot better to look at than the original towers. These buildings look modern. Instead of 2 tall towers, now we'll get 4 buildings almost all 1,000 feet tall and up.

This is like winning millions of dollars in the MegaMillions lottery and saying "Ehh, it'd be cooler if I won Powerball instead."

[uaarkson]

But you should ask yourself why you are all lemmings in throwing yourself on this silly banal building.

This kind of comment is why you get attacked. You act as if anyone who disagrees with you is a fool.

I don't think your opinion is foolish, though your reasoning doesn't seem to be in line with reality. Why not just give it a rest? You're wasting your own energy.

[canadate]

Lol! A lot of 1 WTC hate over here don't think I've seen this much before. I'm not angry; you can all do as you please but I suggest that you don't forget to leave some of that in the 432 Park thread. Not that it will help anything, I just find it hilarious.

[Tectonic]

This building looks great from Grand Army Plaza in Brooklyn.

[QUEENSNYMAN]

This building looks great from Grand Army Plaza in Brooklyn.

Thats for sure:tup:

[NYdude]

I love this building. That's just my opinion though, but I think it's great. :)

[pnapp1]

But you should ask yourself why you are all lemmings in throwing yourself on this silly banal building.

Dude... you're a Douche! We all don't share your opinion. :no:

[bigreach]

Sure, the spire sucks, compared to what was planned. The real problem, of course, is that the whole building sucks.

This is the best NYC can get to replace the Twins?

Don't worry, I won't press this opinion. I know it's not acceptable here and the last time I posted, months ago, I was subject to a vicious attack for expressing it.

But you should ask yourself why you are all lemmings in throwing yourself on this silly banal building. It's tripe, and it's a disgrace to NYC. It may have been fine in Pittsburgh, but not in NYC and certainly not in arguably the most important architectural site in America, where greatness was wanted and mediocrity is what we got.

The spire/mast/antenna is a side issue, a red herring.



Damn!!! How do you feel about the Verizon building????


I don't want is durstbag to get his way and have this called a spire, when In most aspects like others were saying, those upper levels of that mast won't stay naked for long, they'll have antennaes uglying it just like ESB,, so therefore it will be an anteennae again.

[ih8pickingusernames]

^ It looks alright. Better then any buildings here.
World class building, maybe.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8247/8560407569_03ee0f88c2_c.jpg
Looks the same.

[CHAPINM1]

Will there be elevator service up to the 105th floor? I'm sure personell will be going to and from there regularly for maintenance so just wondering if there will be an accessable point directly by elevator.

[TouchTheSky13]

I want to take back what I said a few posts back. I did some more research and I looked more closely at some of the plans and realized that there will in fact be broadcasting equipment attached to the mast on the parts closest to the beacon. My apologies for saying something that was unfounded. However, I reserve what I said about the mast not being cluttered up by broadcasting equipment. I don't think it will ever look like the Empire State Building looks now.

While the ESB has had antennae on it for decades, much of the clutter that we see today is due in large part to the response to 911, when broadcasting companies who were using the North Tower's mast needed a new place to put their equipment. I believe that they will try to fill up the rings as much as possible before they start putting equipment on the mast. That's just my personal prediction. Regardless, 1WTC is still a great building. Could they have done better? Yes. Could they have done a lot worse? Absolutely (i.e. Libeskind's design).

[Chibears85]

The super bowl logo for next year will have 1WTC in it!
http://news.sportslogos.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/493x441xSuper-Bowl-XLVIII-Logo.jpg.pagespeed.ic.yLgJ_7Ud8a.jpg

[randy1991]

WTCprogress Facebook

''Lower Communication Rings of One WTC's spire weighs 568.7 tons, which is approximately 277 average size cars.''

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/883415_445248908885686_774401581_o.jpg

[hunser]

Tim Drivas (http://www.flickr.com/photos/timdrivas/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8379/8561216763_f1aa22aaf9_h.jpg

[Dac150]

Now that's an all-star cast.

[Blaze23]

Wow! this is a stunning building!! (minus the antenna/mast...whatever u wanna call it)

[NewYorque]

Hey, just a question:
I remember a recent post with photos of an escalator being lifted to the top of the tower.
Question is: Where will be that escalator? Will it be a path between the two observation floors?

Sorry if that question was already answered before. But I want to know. :cheers:

[Roadcruiser1]

Hey, just a question:
I remember a recent post with photos of an escalator being lifted to the top of the tower.
Question is: Where will be that escalator? Will it be a path between the two observation floors?

Sorry if that question was already answered before. But I want to know. :cheers:

It is going to be a way to move between the observation deck floors.

[hunser]

Andrea Di Castro (http://www.flickr.com/photos/andreadicastro/page4/)

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Atomische • Tom Giebel (http://www.flickr.com/photos/atomische/)

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[NYguy]

Sean P. Sweeney (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sean_sweeney/8560886495/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

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hshuldman (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hshuldman/8560442033/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

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kayaker72 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kayaker72/8560409393/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

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[Tectonic]

A New skyline rises from the ashes.

[Downburst]

They're taking a long time finishing the mechanical vents on (what I believe is) the NW side. Has it been consistently too windy the past week or two to finish the job?

[ThatOneGuy]

^ That side's always a bit behind because that was where the crane was.

[PMadFlyer]

Assuming the two openings on either side of the mirror assembly project beams...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8379/8564095706_9088ff0681_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmadflyer/8564095706/)
Spire Beam (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmadflyer/8564095706/) by PMadFlyer (http://www.flickr.com/people/pmadflyer/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8252/8564103726_cf4a7441cb_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmadflyer/8564103726/)
Spire beam far (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmadflyer/8564103726/) by PMadFlyer (http://www.flickr.com/people/pmadflyer/), on Flickr

[Thaniel]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8252/8564103726_cf4a7441cb_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmadflyer/8564103726/)
Spire beam far (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmadflyer/8564103726/) by PMadFlyer (http://www.flickr.com/people/pmadflyer/), on Flickr

So now the top part is going to levitate above the rest?!?! Maybe now people will shut up about hating the spire. lol

"Is levitating mass considered an architectural element?"

[WTCman7301]

So now the top part is going to levitate above the rest?!?! Maybe now people will shut up about hating the spire. lol

"Is levitating mass considered an architectural element?"

:previous: that's funny!!!:haha:

[Otie]

So now the top part is going to levitate above the rest?!?! Maybe now people will shut up about hating the spire. lol

"Is levitating mass considered an architectural element?"

It will in a not so distant future, physicist are already playing with particles that can "levitate" against force of gravity, a phenomenon being studied by quantum mechanics.

[jd3189]

Assuming the two openings on either side of the mirror assembly project beams...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8379/8564095706_9088ff0681_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmadflyer/8564095706/)
Spire Beam (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmadflyer/8564095706/) by PMadFlyer (http://www.flickr.com/people/pmadflyer/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8252/8564103726_cf4a7441cb_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmadflyer/8564103726/)
Spire beam far (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmadflyer/8564103726/) by PMadFlyer (http://www.flickr.com/people/pmadflyer/), on Flickr
At least a shred of the radome will be at the top.

[NYC2ATX]

I like the structure of the spire a lot. It's almost as if before it was trying to deny the fact that it always looked like a narwhal tusk and had no architectural relation to the building itself whatsoever...whereas now it's like "you know what, I am a spire with no relation to my building whatsoever, and I'm gonna own that shit." :haha: It speaks to the Empire State's antenna too. I think this'll do just fine. :cool:

[PhillyToNYC]

I like the structure of the spire a lot. It's almost as if before it was trying to deny the fact that it always looked like a narwhal tusk and had no architectural relation to the building itself whatsoever...whereas now it's like "you know what, I am a spire with no relation to my building whatsoever, and I'm gonna own that shit." :haha: It speaks to the Empire State's antenna too. I think this'll do just fine. :cool:

Okay this has to be the greatest post on Skyscraper Page in a while...