SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[Leo the Dog]

Regarding Bay Park and the NIMBYism associated with raising building heights, I kind of get their argument.

What if one of us, purchased a home based off the fact that heights were limited to Xft. It was the determining factor in one choosing this neighborhood to purchase a 600k home. Then suddenly, developers want to increase the height. Bring in thousands of more transient renters.

Why would you not fight to preserve your neighborhood and your investment? The residents of Bay Park probably view it as, other neighborhoods reject this type of development, why do you think you can push us around?!

[Chapelo]

It's not the waterfront food/fish market I was hoping for, but I'll take it:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/sep/12/liberty-station-public-market-food-hall/?#article-copy

Back in the 80s, this same space was the base commissary. It would be the perfect place for the market.

http://media.utsandiego.com/img/photos/2014/09/12/davidliberty_t730.jpg?b0f0cf804b45a2830ba759010b8a41b9b1684c1a

I just hope these murals are preserved.

[mello]

Leo the big picture here is that this is a redo of the entire Morena corridor from Rose Canyon through the 8 interchange. So thousands of new residents along that 4.5 mile stretch over 15 years isn't that big of a deal.

Then remember developers always ask for more than what they know they can get. I was just in Kensington looking at that new 3 story project which is probably 30-33 feet high. In Bay Park where views will really be blocked by 60 footers builders will probably fight for 42 to 45 foot tall four floor residential structures with underground parking.

Developers know they need 4 floors of residential units to make a project pencil out so they ask for 60 feet knowing they can cram in 4 floors at 45 feet. So they propose 60 to start and then meet the residents halfway (they come up from 30 developers come down from 60).

Now in Rose Canyon or that warehouse area at the South end of Morena they can probably get away with 60 feet because no one lives there now and views won't be compromised. I bet in the heart of Bay Park (Mid Morena) 4 floor apartment buildings with underground parking will eventually start replacing the mostly crap (other than restaurants) that exists there now.

[SDfan]

Regarding Bay Park and the NIMBYism associated with raising building heights, I kind of get their argument.

What if one of us, purchased a home based off the fact that heights were limited to Xft. It was the determining factor in one choosing this neighborhood to purchase a 600k home. Then suddenly, developers want to increase the height. Bring in thousands of more transient renters.

Why would you not fight to preserve your neighborhood and your investment? The residents of Bay Park probably view it as, other neighborhoods reject this type of development, why do you think you can push us around?!

I understand the investment that these people are making in California real estate is much more significant than say, in Iowa, or even El Cajon. Yet, while that may be the case, what is detrimental to a few is far outweighed by the needs of the vast majority. What might be a 10% or even 15% depreciation in value for three or four homes on block does not justify the denial of much needed housing and urban infrastructure. Change is a constant in life, nothing is permanent, and unless these people own the land around them then they do not have the right to dictate land-use policies that only benefit themselves and their interests.

[SDfan]

Back in the 80s, this same space was the base commissary. It would be the perfect place for the market.

I just hope these murals are preserved.

I'm sure the murals will be preserved, they add to the historical feel of the building, which is part of why the developers are interested in the space to begin with.

[Leo the Dog]

Leo the big picture here is that this is a redo of the entire Morena corridor from Rose Canyon through the 8 interchange. So thousands of new residents along that 4.5 mile stretch over 15 years isn't that big of a deal.

Then remember developers always ask for more than what they know they can get. I was just in Kensington looking at that new 3 story project which is probably 30-33 feet high. In Bay Park where views will really be blocked by 60 footers builders will probably fight for 42 to 45 foot tall four floor residential structures with underground parking.

Developers know they need 4 floors of residential units to make a project pencil out so they ask for 60 feet knowing they can cram in 4 floors at 45 feet. So they propose 60 to start and then meet the residents halfway (they come up from 30 developers come down from 60).

Now in Rose Canyon or that warehouse area at the South end of Morena they can probably get away with 60 feet because no one lives there now and views won't be compromised. I bet in the heart of Bay Park (Mid Morena) 4 floor apartment buildings with underground parking will eventually start replacing the mostly crap (other than restaurants) that exists there now.

Oh and don't get me wrong, I think develoment along Morena would be fantastic, especially along the mid coast trolley stops...I was kind of playing devils advocate. Bay Park has some really beautiful neighborhoods. I suggest taking a driving tour off the beaten path. There are many older homes that have either been demo'd/rebuilt or expanded greatly.

I was trying to put myself in their shoes. "OB has restrictions...why can't we?"

[SDfan]

Oh and don't get me wrong, I think develoment along Morena would be fantastic, especially along the mid coast trolley stops...I was kind of playing devils advocate. Bay Park has some really beautiful neighborhoods. I suggest taking a driving tour off the beaten path. There are many older homes that have either been demo'd/rebuilt or expanded greatly.

I was trying to put myself in their shoes. "OB has restrictions...why can't we?"

I understand, and I appreciate it. :cheers:

[Bertrice]

Liberty station is also getting an aquatic center. Also I notice the old gymnasium is being torn down or renovated

http://www.sandiego.gov/real-estate-assets/pdf/rfpaquatic.pdf

[Leo the Dog]

Edit: interesting re striping of Mission Blvd in N. PB. Thinking it might go down to one lane in each direction.

Also, regarding road diets, 5th ave northbound seems to be flowing fine after losing the far left lane. No need to have 3 general purpose lanes for DT to Hillcrest.

[Chapelo]

Liberty station is also getting an aquatic center. Also I notice the old gymnasium is being torn down or renovated

http://www.sandiego.gov/real-estate-assets/pdf/rfpaquatic.pdf

The pool portion of the gym was demolished. The rest of the building will become (I think) High Tech Elementary.

Sad to see that pool go. Every recruit who trained at NTC had to swim in that pool during basic training.

[nezbn22]

Interesting development regarding 7th and Market:

http://www.hughesmarino.com/hughes-marino-blog/600-b-street-may-convert-to-hotel-7th-market-bids-submitted/

[spoonman]

Interesting development regarding 7th and Market:

http://www.hughesmarino.com/hughes-marino-blog/600-b-street-may-convert-to-hotel-7th-market-bids-submitted/

Anyone know the scope of the project? I couldn't find anything when I looked on Civic SD. I believe the old proposal for that site was around 42 floors.

[mello]

I'm pretty sure 7th and Market will be maxed out to 500 feet as they are talking about finally doing a mixed use tower with hotel, office, and residential space. Why San Diego has not been doing any of this when its been common in Miami and San Francisco I have no idea. This is such a prime location 7th and Market is right there between Gaslamp and East Village I can't wait to see a quality tall proposal for this lot!

[Northparkwizard]

South Park is getting a small Target store, replacing Gala Foods? (http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/sep/15/target-express-south-park/)

[tyleraf]

Also, the Park and Market site should have its designs released at the same time, as both sites went to bid at the same time. IDEA Partners, a developer from Seattle, and the Robert Green Company are competing for that site.

[SDfan]

South Park is getting a small Target store, replacing Gala Foods? (http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/sep/15/target-express-south-park/)

This is such a good idea! Gala Foods is terrible, and we desperately need a pharmacy (and affordable groceries) in South Park/Golden Hill. I'm sure this is going to piss off the indy's, but this is too good a proposal for the neighborhood.

[nezbn22]

Also, the Park and Market site should have its designs released at the same time, as both sites went to bid at the same time. IDEA Partners, a developer from Seattle, and the Robert Green Company are competing for that site.

Tyler - when you say Park and Market, are you referring to the Quartyard lot on the Northwest corner of Park and Market? Or is there another corner that you're referring to?

Is Quartyard ever going to materialize?

[psychotron]

According to their Facebook, the Quartyard guys just signed the lease with the city and started construction.

[psychotron]

Target Express will be great for South Park. Would be nice to get a City Target downtown somewhere...

[tyleraf]

There is talk of a cityTarget coming to Makers Quarter. Also, the Park and Market site is Quartyard.

[nezbn22]

Speak of the devil:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/sep/16/quartyard-containers-park-temporary-development/

[aerogt3]

There is talk of a cityTarget coming to Makers Quarter. Also, the Park and Market site is Quartyard.

:cheers: Would be brilliant for bringing people to the area.

[202_Cyclist]

Speak of the devil:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/sep/16/quartyard-containers-park-temporary-development/

We have this in DC at the Fairgrounds, right across the street from the Nationals stadium (lets go Nats!!!!!). These containers started off as interesting and a novelty a couple of years ago but now this looks like a rat warren.

[tyleraf]

Good news for MV! Density with ground level retail and transit friendly. Riverwalk golf course will be replaced by a Civita style development with 4000 apartments and condos along with hotel and office space. The article is on the UT but I can't get the link to work.

[SDfan]

I just went over the UT article. I am happy with the unit count, but the tallest building is 4 stories...

[SDfan]

Ugh, I'll compromise for more homes and denser walkable communities, I suppose... My high-rise dreams can wait. :(

[Streamliner]

Good news for MV! Density with ground level retail and transit friendly. Riverwalk golf course will be replaced by a Civita style development with 4000 apartments and condos along with hotel and office space. The article is on the UT but I can't get the link to work.

Here's the link:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/sep/17/riverwalk-related-mission-valley-golf-housing/

The phasing for what is also being called Riverwalk calls for:

- About 3,000 homes in three- and four-story buildings on 65 acres between Friars Road and the San Diego Trolley line with occupancy of first homes in 2018 if there are no planning approval delays.
- About 1,000 units in two- and three-story buildings would follow on 35 acres between the trolley tracks and the San Diego River.
- The final phase, tentatively conceived as a largely commercial, mixed-use project, possibly including a hotel, would take up about 30 acres at Hotel Circle North and Fashion Valley Road.
- A roughly 70-acre park, developed by Related in phases, would flank both sides of the river.

[Leo the Dog]

"It's a unique location in a unique part of California that we have great optimism about," said Matt Witte, principal at Related California, which is partnering with the property owner, the Levi-Cushman family, on the project. "There aren't too many 200-acre sites in coastal California left, much less that have a river running through it and also mass transit."

This could be awesome. SD shouldn't settle for anything but the best. Not too much open land left.

[Northparkwizard]

So are they going to add one or two elevated trolley stops for the project? Otherwise this will be a total nightmare project/mistake for MV.

[mello]

I am pretty disappointed with the lack of varied height, at least some 10 to 15 floor midrises to mix things up and add a focal point to Mission Valley would be nice. Then will we get typical stucco crap or quality architecture like this in Copenhagen: FREKI
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/Mr_Freki/Planet%20Earth/IMG_3345_zpsd270d7ee.jpg~original

The Mission Bay stuff in San Francisco is decent I guess as well for low rise hopefully we get something at least as nice as that.

[spoonman]

^ I believe the architect is Carrier Johnson. We should see a pretty decent project from them.

Also, there WILL be an additional trolley stop for the project.

[ATLskyline]

What are the nicest looking residential towers (around 20 floors) in San Diego?

[SDfan]

What are the nicest looking residential towers (around 20 floors) in San Diego?

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/300px-Mordor.png (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/300px-Mordor.png.html)

[ATLskyline]

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/300px-Mordor.png (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/300px-Mordor.png.html)

Hmm...San Diego looks much nicer on TV

[SDfan]

Hmm...San Diego looks much nicer on TV

San Diego: beaches, sunshine, and orcs

[mello]

500,000 square feet of Tech/Defense Industry office space coming to Scripps Ranch just east of SR Highschool. At the end of article the analyst says West LA and North OC have been constructing a lot of office space in the last couple of years and its time for SD to really see some growth in this area. Signs of economic recovery? Office space coming at One Paseo and now this. I didn't know OC, and LA had been building much does anyone here follow those markets?
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/sep/18/intel-murphy-scripps-ranch-development/

[spoonman]

^ I haven't seen much of anything being built in OC. Hardly anything has been happening until now. Just starting to see a couple of small hotels and a few apartment projects. Nothing close to what has been developing in SD.

[SDCAL]

Interesting development regarding 7th and Market:

http://www.hughesmarino.com/hughes-marino-blog/600-b-street-may-convert-to-hotel-7th-market-bids-submitted/

According to the article there are 3 finalists, and Civic SD is going to recommend 1 to the city council for approval.

I tried searching online and couldn't find anything for the 3 finalists.

Does anyone know where we might be able to see the specs or renderings?

It would be nice if the public had some input on which of the 3 will be selected.

The article does mention the developers who submitted their plans though. I checked out their websites and nothing about 7th and Market.

One of the developers is Robert Greene and Associates who look like they do a lot of Four Seasons Hotels - possibility of getting a Four Seasons on that site!?

http://www.therobertgreencompany.com/projects/

Also, this is the same developer doing the "Gaslamp Hotel" on 5th/J Street. Is that going to be the name or just what it's called until a deal is made with a hotelier?

[bushman61988]

I am pretty disappointed with the lack of varied height, at least some 10 to 15 floor midrises to mix things up and add a focal point to Mission Valley would be nice. Then will we get typical stucco crap or quality architecture like this in Copenhagen: FREKI
http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/Mr_Freki/Planet%20Earth/IMG_3345_zpsd270d7ee.jpg~original

The Mission Bay stuff in San Francisco is decent I guess as well for low rise hopefully we get something at least as nice as that.


This actually reminds me a lot of a relatively recent project that was completed in National City called Centro Condos (they're apartments now though), http://www.centroapts.com/index.html:

http://dempseystorage.blob.core.windows.net/dempseyimg/centro5.jpg

http://r.rdcpix.com/v01/ce2ed0c00-r1o.jpg

[bushman61988]

According to the article there are 3 finalists, and Civic SD is going to recommend 1 to the city council for approval.

I tried searching online and couldn't find anything for the 3 finalists.

Does anyone know where we might be able to see the specs or renderings?

It would be nice if the public had some input on which of the 3 will be selected.

The article does mention the developers who submitted their plans though. I checked out their websites and nothing about 7th and Market.

One of the developers is Robert Greene and Associates who look like they do a lot of Four Seasons Hotels - possibility of getting a Four Seasons on that site!?


http://www.therobertgreencompany.com/projects/

Also, this is the same developer doing the "Gaslamp Hotel" on 5th/J Street. Is that going to be the name or just what it's called until a deal is made with a hotelier?

I spoke to one of the developers a few months ago from Douglas Wilson Companies and if I remember correctly they were proposing either one or two towers but one of at least 500 feet. I remember asking why they wouldn't just push the limit to go higher and he said that the height limit has a little bit to do with it, but also from a market perspective, buildings get more expensive the higher you go anyway. He said this is going to be a prominent building, but I would love to see the renderings.

[mello]

Bush and SDCAL excellent news. This needs to be 500 feet and a Four Seasons Mixed use tower would be awesome. Downtown Miami has a tower with Four Seasons, Condos, and Office.

Question for you all, when we get a high quality (hopefully iconic) 500 footer at 7th and Market will Petco Park surpass PNC Park in Pittsburgh for the best skyline view from an MLB Ballpark? Think about it you will have the Sempra building front and Center then right behind it BOOM a 500 footer so close to center field with The Mark standing right next to it. Then you will have BallPark Village looming just over the first base side of the ballpark.

The only thing that will suck is the view to Symphony towers and the row of office towers along B and C street will get blocked by 7th and Market so you won't have the cool depth perception of looking out in the city that Petco has now.

[spoonman]

I spoke to one of the developers a few months ago from Douglas Wilson Companies and if I remember correctly they were proposing either one or two towers but one of at least 500 feet. I remember asking why they wouldn't just push the limit to go higher and he said that the height limit has a little bit to do with it, but also from a market perspective, buildings get more expensive the higher you go anyway. He said this is going to be a prominent building, but I would love to see the renderings.

Wow. One or two major towers at 7th & Market would take that entire area up a few more notches. There is little height in the immediate Gaslamp area due to the 12 story restrictions, but this project (just on block outside the restricted area) will change all of that.

[Northparkwizard]

Question for you all, when we get a high quality (hopefully iconic) 500 footer at 7th and Market will Petco Park surpass PNC Park in Pittsburgh for the best skyline view from an MLB Ballpark? Think about it you will have the Sempra building front and Center then right behind it BOOM a 500 footer so close to center field with The Mark standing right next to it. Then you will have BallPark Village looming just over the first base side of the ballpark.

I don't think so, PNC has that great yellow bridge, a river, and the downtown Pittsburgh skyline. If you like views it's sorta un-fuck-with-able. Also 9 of those buildings on display in Pittsburgh are over 500'. (http://www.trunews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/pnc_park_view.jpg) I also think that Dodgers Stadium has a great view of the San Gabriel Mountains on one side (http://dtfjihky7xwic.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/styles/article_image/public/Sports/dodger-stadium-sunset.jpg?itok=Q4x2JiSC) and DTLA on the other (http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/dodger-stadium-at-dusk-linda-posnick.jpg). PETCO is awesome but there's a reason it's nickname is, "Condo Canyon." If it faced the San Diego bay a little more I wouldn't argue but I don't think you can have home plate facing west due to the sunset.

[mello]

Spoonman you are right it is funny how 6th, 7th, and 8th Ave's going North from Market towards Broadway really don't have any tall towers. Those are such prime blocks but they have a lot of low rise and stuff and nothing tall what so ever.

NorthParkWiz: The thing with PNC park though is that the skyline is across the river. The unique thing with PETCO is its the only ballpark where you literally feel like you are surrounded by buildings. a 500 footer at 7th and Market will be so close to center field that it will give an amazing visual. Also look at all the other buildings right there with views in to Ballpark. It will have the Omni on one side and BallPark Village on the other.

Then don't forget right behind the Ballpark JMI is planning that giant hotel which will surely be 500 feet. So no other city can claim an effect like Petco. Pittsburgh is great but you feel like you are looking at the city not IN the city.

[spoonman]

Spoonman you are right it is funny how 6th, 7th, and 8th Ave's going North from Market towards Broadway really don't have any tall towers. Those are such prime blocks but they have a lot of low rise and stuff and nothing tall what so ever.

This is b/c the Gaslamp (the area from 4th to 6th between Broadway and Harbor) have a height restriction of 12 floors to preserve the historic feel.

Downtown is sort of a circle of towers around the Gaslamp. Major infill projects just outside the restricted area, like Sempra and 7th & Market, will change this.

[spoonman]

NorthParkWiz: The thing with PNC park though is that the skyline is across the river. The unique thing with PETCO is its the only ballpark where you literally feel like you are surrounded by buildings. a 500 footer at 7th and Market will be so close to center field that it will give an amazing visual. Also look at all the other buildings right there with views in to Ballpark. It will have the Omni on one side and BallPark Village on the other.

I somewhat agree. They are kind of apples and oranges. Being in the think of it VS a distant skyline view.

[mello]

This is b/c the Gaslamp (the area from 4th to 6th between Broadway and Harbor) have a height restriction of 12 floors to preserve the historic feel.

Downtown is sort of a circle of towers around the Gaslamp. Major infill projects just outside the restricted area, like Sempra and 7th & Market, will change this.

I'm not talking about the Gaslamp Spoon. I'm taking talking about 7th and E,F,G etc. Those blocks aren't under any height limit. So 6th avenue has a height limit too? What if a developer wants to on the Eastern half of a block on 6th Avenue fronting 7th is that OK? I'm a little confused as to where the height limit actually stops.

[spoonman]

I believe it is literally the area between 4th and 6th. So a building on the east side of 6th can be taller than a building on the west side of the street.

Here is the link to the regulations. It appears the height max is 60-75' from Broadway down to Island, and 125' from Island south to Harbor.

http://civicsd.com/images/stories/downloads/planning/supplemental-information/Ch15Art07Divisions01through04.Gaslamp_PDO.6.14.pdf

[bushman61988]

I don't think so, PNC has that great yellow bridge, a river, and the downtown Pittsburgh skyline. If you like views it's sorta un-fuck-with-able. Also 9 of those buildings on display in Pittsburgh are over 500'. (http://www.trunews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/pnc_park_view.jpg) I also think that Dodgers Stadium has a great view of the San Gabriel Mountains on one side (http://dtfjihky7xwic.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/styles/article_image/public/Sports/dodger-stadium-sunset.jpg?itok=Q4x2JiSC) and DTLA on the other (http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/dodger-stadium-at-dusk-linda-posnick.jpg). PETCO is awesome but there's a reason it's nickname is, "Condo Canyon." If it faced the San Diego bay a little more I wouldn't argue but I don't think you can have home plate facing west due to the sunset.

I couldn't agree more, nothing beats those PNC park views... the river, the bridge, the varied and unique skyline. AT&T Park has great bayviews, but I would say that the PETCO Park skyline view is #2 for skyline views and it would be much better w/ the 7th & Market and Sempra Bldg complete.

[SDfan]

I don't know if any of you are on twitter but I found this person linked to a streetsofsandiego tweet:

https://twitter.com/risetheballoon

This person is either joking or a complete joke. Too freaking funny (or sad).

[aerogt3]

I don't know if any of you are on twitter but I found this person linked to a streetsofsandiego tweet:

https://twitter.com/risetheballoon

This person is either joking or a complete joke. Too freaking funny (or sad).

This seems like too much effort for a parody:

http://www.raisetheballoon.com/

:slob:

[Northparkwizard]

Lower East Village getting a indoor skydiving facility? (http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/sep/24/airborne-skydiving-downtown-east-village/)

[dtell04]

I don't know if any of you are on twitter but I found this person linked to a streetsofsandiego tweet:

https://twitter.com/risetheballoon

This person is either joking or a complete joke. Too freaking funny (or sad).

Raise The Balloon is a Grassroots Organization formed for the purpose of raising our community’s awareness of planned future development and the City and County of San Diego’s desires to urbanize our neighborhoods.
-quote from their website

Translation: San Diego is growing, people want to live and work here, those people need a place to live, and WE DON'T LIKE IT.

There's plenty of room in not so desirable places......

[eburress]

Raise The Balloon is a Grassroots Organization formed for the purpose of raising our community’s awareness of planned future development and the City and County of San Diego’s desires to urbanize our neighborhoods.
-quote from their website

Translation: San Diego is growing, people want to live and work here, those people need a place to live, and WE DON'T LIKE IT.

There's plenty of room in not so desirable places......

This is without a doubt the thing I dislike about San Diego. These people are the worst and the city is spineless. Grow a pair, San Diego.

[aerogt3]

This is without a doubt the thing I dislike about San Diego. These people are the worst and the city is spineless. Grow a pair, San Diego.

The real problem is that young people don't vote. The property owners in Bayview vote, and the people who would move into the proposed condos don't. It's hard to blame the city, when they are essentially following their mandate.

San Francisco and other cities have the same problems. Most of SF is zoned for floor area ratio of 4 or 5, despite enormous demand for more housing. Why? Because people who own those homes vote, and they're not going to vote for an increase in the housing supply that keeps their home prices stable (vs. increasing absurdly.)

This is why, IMO, cities should not meddle in zoning except where safety is concerned.

[eburress]

The real problem is that young people don't vote. The property owners in Bayview vote, and the people who would move into the proposed condos don't. It's hard to blame the city, when they are essentially following their mandate.

San Francisco and other cities have the same problems. Most of SF is zoned for floor area ratio of 4 or 5, despite enormous demand for more housing. Why? Because people who own those homes vote, and they're not going to vote for an increase in the housing supply that keeps their home prices stable (vs. increasing absurdly.)

This is why, IMO, cities should not meddle in zoning except where safety is concerned.

You could be right about who/who isn't voting. Although my main issue is the mentality of so many of the people in SD, the problem with the "city" is that they cater to the people's short sighted, self-centered interests. This cowardly city gives the people what they want and not what they need.

[Leo the Dog]

This is without a doubt the thing I dislike about San Diego. These people are the worst and the city is spineless. Grow a pair, San Diego.

This exists in just about every single city. It could be much worse here.

Aero, property owners pay the most in taxes, whereas, young/renters do not. Property owners votes are taken more seriously by local politicians. They also tend to make donations, whereas transients do not because they're here one day, gone tomorrow.

[nezbn22]

This exists in just about every single city. It could be much worse here.

Aero, property owners pay the most in taxes, whereas, young/renters do not. Property owners votes are taken more seriously by local politicians. They also tend to make donations, whereas transients do not because they're here one day, gone tomorrow.

Haha...while technically true, labeling renters with a word (transients) that's synonymous with the homeless might be a little strong. I see your point, though, and I don't disagree with it. But I'm sure there are some renters out there who would love to own property and stay here forever but just can't afford it.

[SDCAL]

Guys come on, the twitter feed SDFan posted is clearly a parody and pretty funny at that.

Yeah the "RAISE the balloon" group is real, but the twitter account (RISE the balloon) is an obvious parody of that group.

Look at the differences in logos from "raisetheballoon.com" and the twitter account of "Maggie Edwards' RISE the balloon". (https://twitter.com/risetheballoon)

http://www.raisetheballoon.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/yard-signresize.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_banners/2775160733/1411115396/1500x500

:D:D

[SDfan]

^^^

:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:

[tyleraf]

SDCal beat me to it. At least we know that someone else in San Diego is sick of the stupidity.

[SDfan]

Looks like Ballpark Village is getting a unit increase (and a slight sqft decrease):

http://www.civicsd.com/meetings-and-events/calendar/icalrepeat.detail/2014/09/17/1049/127|128|130|129|136|131|132/downtown-community-planning-council-meeting.html

Original unit count: 622
New unit count: 720

Original sqft: 1,016,209
New sqft: 1,004,810

Whatever, that's over 100 more units. :D

[SDfan]

Hahaha! This is a parody. Look!

https://twitter.com/risetheballoon/status/512984443754000384

[Bertrice]

I tweeted the port about the nevp and this was the response.
Port of San Diego
‏@portofsandiego Sep 23
@---- We should be making an official announcement soon, but we expect it to be by the end of the year.

[spoonman]

Looks like Ballpark Village is getting a unit increase (and a slight sqft decrease):

http://www.civicsd.com/meetings-and-events/calendar/icalrepeat.detail/2014/09/17/1049/127|128|130|129|136|131|132/downtown-community-planning-council-meeting.html

Original unit count: 622
New unit count: 720

Original sqft: 1,016,209
New sqft: 1,004,810

Whatever, that's over 100 more units. :D

Anyone know when this breaks ground?

[Leo the Dog]

Looks like Ballpark Village is getting a unit increase (and a slight sqft decrease):

http://www.civicsd.com/meetings-and-events/calendar/icalrepeat.detail/2014/09/17/1049/127|128|130|129|136|131|132/downtown-community-planning-council-meeting.html

Original unit count: 622
New unit count: 720

Original sqft: 1,016,209
New sqft: 1,004,810

Whatever, that's over 100 more units. :D

Wow, good news.

On a side note, I just drove north on the 5 from the south bay (I rarely go south of DT) and was pleasantly shocked at the enormous size of 15th/island. This is an absolute game changer for the East Village. :tup:

[S.DviaPhilly]

Looks like Ballpark Village is getting a unit increase (and a slight sqft decrease):

http://www.civicsd.com/meetings-and-events/calendar/icalrepeat.detail/2014/09/17/1049/127|128|130|129|136|131|132/downtown-community-planning-council-meeting.html

Original unit count: 622
New unit count: 720

Original sqft: 1,016,209
New sqft: 1,004,810

Whatever, that's over 100 more units. :D

I am not the biggest fan of this project. I think it is beautiful from the outside and love how tall the proposed tower is supposed to be (411ft), but the project was supposed to be a mix of condos and rentals and now will just be all rentals! The developer I feel pulled a fast one, never planned on having it condos and rentals and already has a plan to sell the complex to a leasing company. (I think the same company who leases Archstone, Brookestone, etc.)

Since the developer is adding 100 more units, each unit is going to be super small. The square footage of the tower did not increase (but amount of parking did decrease), just the amount of units. I heard because of that a lot of the units are losing the planned patios for juliet balconies because they need that square footage for more indoor space. Outdoor space is essential in SD, right?!?!?

I live in the East Village and I feel the whole neighborhood is turning into rentals. 13th and Market is brand new, 15th and Market just opened, Urbana is under construction, same with 688 lofts and of course the high-rise going up at 15th and Island. That is over 2500 new rentals and no new condos to sell. This city needs more condos yesterday, the inventory for sale is super low. Not sure what developers are waiting for?!?! It is not like you break ground and finish a high-rise in months. By the time Ballpark Village would be complete, I bet they would be close to 100% sold - especially because the last condo building finished was Bayside in 2009.

I am all for development and lots of it..as tall as you can build it with as many condos/apts you can get in there (including convention center expansion and downtown stadium), but not when it doesn't make sense. The developer created this amazingly beautiful project and then ruined it with 500sqft 1 bedrooms, 800sqft. 2 bedrooms and 1000sqft 3 bedrooms. Thats tiny!!! I think San Diego deserves better and that we shouldn't just build projects "because it is better than what is there."

[spoonman]

I am not the biggest fan of this project. I think it is beautiful from the outside and love how tall the proposed tower is supposed to be (411ft), but the project was supposed to be a mix of condos and rentals and now will just be all rentals! The developer I feel pulled a fast one, never planned on having it condos and rentals and already has a plan to sell the complex to a leasing company. (I think the same company who leases Archstone, Brookestone, etc.)

Since the developer is adding 100 more units, each unit is going to be super small. The square footage of the tower did not increase (but amount of parking did decrease), just the amount of units. I heard because of that a lot of the units are losing the planned patios for juliet balconies because they need that square footage for more indoor space. Outdoor space is essential in SD, right?!?!?

I live in the East Village and I feel the whole neighborhood is turning into rentals. 13th and Market is brand new, 15th and Market just opened, Urbana is under construction, same with 688 lofts and of course the high-rise going up at 15th and Island. That is over 2500 new rentals and no new condos to sell. This city needs more condos yesterday, the inventory for sale is super low. Not sure what developers are waiting for?!?! It is not like you break ground and finish a high-rise in months. By the time Ballpark Village would be complete, I bet they would be close to 100% sold - especially because the last condo building finished was Bayside in 2009.

I am all for development and lots of it..as tall as you can build it with as many condos/apts you can get in there (including convention center expansion and downtown stadium), but not when it doesn't make sense. The developer created this amazingly beautiful project and then ruined it with 500sqft 1 bedrooms, 800sqft. 2 bedrooms and 1000sqft 3 bedrooms. Thats tiny!!! I think San Diego deserves better and that we shouldn't just build projects "because it is better than what is there."

Those units do sounds small, but as you know, the developer would not build them if they were not in demand. This city needs more housing stock of every kind. Even though we also need more condos, apartment development indirectly takes pressure off the condo market as it helps keep rents down, making renting more attractive. Apartments are very hot right now as they are in short supply, and rents are projected to keep increasing. I don't know what developers are waiting for with condo developments...my guess is that many are in the pipeline heading towards approval. The housing market didn't really recover until about 1-2 years ago, so I suspect condos are coming.

With regard to EV, it's probably a case of timing and economics. Apartments probably pencil out better due to the lower cost of land (as opposed to Marina, etc.). As well, there is still land availavble. I imagine that as the area has cleaned up a bit, more condos will go in soon.

Regarding apartments and downtown, I am glad to see so many apartments. Rentals likely mean younger residents and possibly more street life, etc.

[SDfan]

I think this article from SDDT pretty much explains why building condos right now has been considered risky:

The seven summits to climb when developing condos in San Diego
http://www.sddt.com/Commentary/article.cfm?Commentary_ID=200&SourceCode=20140915tza&_t=The+seven+sins+Developing+condominiums+in+downtown+San+Diego#.VCWY1vldWCs

I have 35 new rental projects in my downtown San Diego database. In addition, I also have a small list of projects that are supposed to be condominiums, but there does not seem to be any dirt being moved for those projects.

Vertical condominiums are scary things to develop. Here’s why:

First, the typical vertical condominium takes 24 months to process, including creating the working drawings and getting them through the permit process. Then it takes two years to build. Therefore, developers have to convince themselves that the market will be there in four years. After all, you cannot close escrow on one unit until all the units are built and you have a certificate of occupancy.

Second, you have to determine four years in advance exactly what the market will want at the time the units are ready for occupancy. Condominium markets have changing tastes as many a developer has found out. What unit mix should you lock in? The big problem with planning vertical condominiums is that once you have made a decision on unit mix and sizes, you are pretty well locked in for the duration.

Third, the costs of construction are in motion. A developer applies for a loan to acquire the land and construct the project, but no general contractor is going to lock in pricing that far in advance. In today’s world, the price of materials is not exactly stable and the price of labor is creeping up.

Fourth, from day one, prices have to be established. You can’t get a loan without knowing what the product will sell for. And that means you have to project years in advance what the state of the market will be at the time of project completion.

Fifth, it is necessary to determine what interest rates will be in four years, as well as during the period of the construction loan. What would be the effect on projected sales and pricing if interest went from their current level to maybe six or seven percent?

Sixth, developers are inevitably faced with an absence of knowledge about their competition. There is a herd mentality in the industry. In the last round, there were 50-plus condominium projects built downtown in a seven-year time-frame (plus a half-dozen condominium conversions). Most of the developers made money or at least came out alive. Those who came in early in the game did particularly well. Now, we are in a strange time. No one has broken ground on a new condominium project in downtown San Diego in almost a decade and it will be at least three years before the next one is complete (unless some of the rental projects under or near construction sells to a condominium developer). Fortunately, in the 2000 to 2007 time frame, the market was steaming; loans were ridiculously easy to obtain (including liar loans); and the national economy was buoyant. Then the economy started to unravel. Also, fortunately, we did not have a major overhang of unsold units. In Miami, there were 30,000 high-rise condominium units under construction or completed and unsold when the wheels came off the economy.

And seventh, and finally, the developer must roll the dice on what the national and local economy will be doing in four years. What will the job market look like? How about inflation? Will we be engaged in warlike activities somewhere in the globe?

What is it like for a developer who is building a 200-unit high-rise to have the market go sideways after the building is complete and only half the units are sold?
Such is the life of a vertical condominium developer.

P.S. And then there is also the specter of litigation. Of the 57 projects built downtown from 2000 to 2007, 42 were subject to litigation. No laughing matter.

As for all of the rental construction, I see it as a phase in condo development. Before the last recession we had a lot of rental to condo conversions. Developers today are still feeling out the market. They know rentals are profitable but with the slow recovery in housing and the difficulty in obtaining a mortgage, condos are a scarier proposition. But if they build rentals with condo conversion maps (which I understand has been the case with a lot of these projects downtown) then the transition from rental to condo will come back almost like a light switch when the market is finally secure. Its going to take time.

In the meantime, we need to build as many apartments as possible. The rental market is on fire, and we need supply to keep rents from growing exponentially.

[mello]

Good article SDfan, very eye opening so now we know why condos aren't being built. I just hope BOSA gets moving on his Broadway tower soon that will really make a huge addition to the waterfront with what looks to be world class architecture.

While 15th and Island is nice I'm kind of ready for other projects to get going I thought Ballpark Village would have broken ground by now. It will really compliment 15th/I very well because now it is just kind of out there on its own. I'm crossing my fingers for a 450 to 500 footer at the Library Towers site as well. That will give East Village a really nice cluster of talls.

Was at Blue Sky yesterday Swinerton Sign is up but no activity. We need some other projects to come online like 11th and Broadway.

[SDfan]

Good article SDfan, very eye opening so now we know why condos aren't being built. I just hope BOSA gets moving on his Broadway tower soon that will really make a huge addition to the waterfront with what looks to be world class architecture.

While 15th and Island is nice I'm kind of ready for other projects to get going I thought Ballpark Village would have broken ground by now. It will really compliment 15th/I very well because now it is just kind of out there on its own. I'm crossing my fingers for a 450 to 500 footer at the Library Towers site as well. That will give East Village a really nice cluster of talls.

Was at Blue Sky yesterday Swinerton Sign is up but no activity. We need some other projects to come online like 11th and Broadway.

I just hope Alexan gets built, it will be a nice step down from 15th and Island and give the skyline some stretch into the East Village. I also hope some actual towers start construction. We've been getting a lot of mid-rise activity, and while I appreciate the unit count, they are still only barely meeting the minimum FAR on a lot of these lots. I just get irritated because this one of the few places in the city where you can get such generous FARs, and its almost being wasted, especially on Market.

I hope 11th and Broadway is eventually completed. The company, Pinnacle, is behind the projects and 15th and Island. If they market to more of a middle class clientele (versus all the "luxury" complexes going up) they could have a hit on their hands.

I read an article somewhere about the rental market in SD though, I think in the daily, and I guess a lot of real estate professionals are getting worried about over-saturation of the market downtown. Demand for apartments is huge in the region, but concentrating all of our efforts in one area can be detrimental. They also said the uptown, north park markets are on fire and that new development would ease the demand there but given all the restrictions things are unlikely to change. That's probably the most frustrating thing for me personally, given the illogical reasons for not building up in the urban core. :sly:

[mello]

I agree we are lagging on towers right now, so many are approved and ready to go but no activity is moving forward. Good luck with Pinnacle focusing on middle class when was the last time a high rise tower wasn't branded as "luxury"? I wish there were more towers that were middle class oriented, we shall see.

[staplesla]

Does anyone know when the 2nd tower at 15th & Island is to start construction?

[spoonman]

Anyone know when Ballpark Village breaks ground?

[tyleraf]

Spoonman: Last I heard they wanted to break ground sometime this winter or early next year on BV.
StaplesLA: Don't quote me on this but I believe that Pinnacle plans to break ground on tower 2 in 2016 sometime, I could be wrong though.

[aerogt3]

This exists in just about every single city. It could be much worse here.

Aero, property owners pay the most in taxes, whereas, young/renters do not. Property owners votes are taken more seriously by local politicians. They also tend to make donations, whereas transients do not because they're here one day, gone tomorrow.

Density is not just for a renters. There are lots of people who also BUY condos :omg:

[Leo the Dog]

Density is not just for a renters. There are lots of people who also BUY condos :omg:

Of course, however, increasing density does equal a big increase of renters, especially if we're talking about an area like Bay Park, which is largely filled with SFHs/homeowners.

[tyleraf]

Typical. http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2014/sep/30/union-tribune-redevelopment-apartments/

[spoonman]

Typical. http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2014/sep/30/union-tribune-redevelopment-apartments/

Bummer. I guess the office market isn't quite there yet, and it must be hard to roll out a ton of units down the street from Civita. Wish they would at least build a tower so that they have room to add more later (maybe they still do?).

[spoonman]

This may be the silver bullet that helps the city take a stand against NIMBY's.

http://voiceofsandiego.org/2014/09/30/faulconers-plan-to-cut-greenhouse-gases-comes-with-teeth/

[SDfan]

New project?

Mixed-Use Residential Project Planned for East Village
By Lou Hirsh Thursday, October 2, 2014

Alliance Realty Partners LLC has proposed a new mixed-use residential project with 269 dwelling units in downtown San Diego’s East Village neighborhood.

According to documents filed with Civic San Diego, the city’s downtown project oversight agency, the development named 16th & Broadway is planned for a 50,000-square-foot site bounded by Broadway, 16th, 17th and E streets. It would include a seven-story, 85-foot-tall building containing the residential units and 5,100 square feet of retail, with 343 parking spaces on four levels.

The project will require a development permit from Civic San Diego. Preliminary designs for the project are tentatively scheduled to be reviewed by the Downtown Community Planning Council’s pre-design subcommittee on Oct. 6, and Civic San Diego’s real estate committee on Oct. 8.

http://sdbj.com/news/2014/oct/02/mixed-use-residential-project-planned-east-village/

[SDfan]

Meanwhile, La Mesa Park Station was denied.

http://www.10news.com/news/la-mesa-planning-commision-denies-park-station-development-10012014

And One Paseo was presented to the planning commission, which decided to make a decision by October 16th.

https://twitter.com/OnePaseo/status/517815704515796992

[Derek]

Meanwhile, La Mesa Park Station was denied.

http://www.10news.com/news/la-mesa-planning-commision-denies-park-station-development-10012014






OH MY GOD!!!!! Scary tall buildings!

[SDfan]

OH MY GOD!!!!! Scary tall buildings!

So scary! My view of Grossmont center and the I-8 will be blocked!!

At least the developers seem determined. They're willing to lop off two more stories, so we'll see how this plays out.

[eburress]

So scary! My view of Grossmont center and the I-8 will be blocked!!

At least the developers seem determined. They're willing to lop off two more stories, so we'll see how this plays out.

The people in SD are the worst!

[SDfan]

The people in SD are the worst!

:cheers:

[Urbannizer]

The Millenium Mission Valley

http://www.themillennium.com/California/SanDiego/Millennium-Mission-Valley/

http://www.dinersteincos.com/images/corporate-gallery/Mission-Valley/exterior-1.jpg

[Chapelo]

Looks like that project will be replacing the Witt Lincoln dealership.

[spoonman]

Style wise it looks much better than I expected.

[Leo the Dog]

It'll make the streetscape of Cam. De la Reina much better.

[nezbn22]

I wish they had better renderings, but here's an update on the new Cohn restaurant on Harbor Island:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Floating-Restaurant-Harbor-Island-San-Diego-Cohn-Restaurant-278303731.html

[S.DviaPhilly]

Walked by 15th and Island today. Looking great!

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e338/Spiewak/photo-451_zps9b29b985.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/Spiewak/media/photo-451_zps9b29b985.jpg.html)

[SDfan]

The Millenium Mission Valley

http://www.themillennium.com/California/SanDiego/Millennium-Mission-Valley/

Thank you!

[SDfan]

I wish they had better renderings, but here's an update on the new Cohn restaurant on Harbor Island:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Floating-Restaurant-Harbor-Island-San-Diego-Cohn-Restaurant-278303731.html

Well that will be fun. I probably can't afford whatever is going in, but hey, haha, good for the harbor.

[SDfan]

Looks like Hillcrest is doing something right for once:

Behind the Competing Plans to Make Over Hillcrest
By Matthew Hose 10/07/2014
http://voiceofsandiego.org/2014/10/07/behind-the-competing-plans-to-make-over-hillcrest/

[SDfan]

FINALLY! New Gaslamp hotel is going to start construction soon.

Gaslamp getting Pendry hotel
Average room rate expected in $250-300 range at 317-room hotel

Pendry San Diego, a 317-room, $100 million-plus upscale hotel, will break ground Wednesday in the Gaslamp Quarter, adding yet another brand to the ever-expanding galaxy of places to stay.

The 12-story hotel will be built on the block bounded by Fifth, Sixth and Island avenues and J Street. It was the site of a lengthy battle by a cigar shop owner who fought the city over condemnation of his property. The hotel, located three blocks north of the San Diego Convention Center, is expected to open in the summer of 2016.

The property will include 36 suites of studio, one- and two-bedroom configurations and several restaurants and bars, including an underground "ultra-lounge" nightclub and a beer hall. An outdoor pool, spa, grill and fitness area will be located on a third floor deck. The 8,600-square-foot ballroom and various meeting rooms will cater to local and out-of-town group meeting planners. There will be three floors of underground parking. The average room rate has not been set but is expected to range from $250 to $300.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/oct/07/pendry-hotel-montage-green-gaslamp/

[SDfan]

Shift to urban living by boomers and millennials forcing retailers to adapt to mixed-use locations.

Taco Bell: Order by cellphone
Retailers adjust formulas to appeal to growin market

Taco Bell is rolling out mobile phone ordering this month.

Orchard Supply Hardware is selling smaller bags of fertilizer and fewer trees

Starbucks is building outlets as little as 600 square feet.

These are just a few of the steps retailers are taking to adjust to an urbanizing customer base as Baby Boomers and their Millennial children flee the suburbs and move to city centers.

The western regional convention of the International Council of Shopping Centers, meeting in San Diego recently, asked three panelists to peer into the brains of the old and young and reveal their findings.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/oct/07/retailers-urban-location/

[Leo the Dog]

FINALLY! New Gaslamp hotel is going to start construction soon.

This is AWESOME! Adios surface lot in the heart of the gaslamp.

[Urbanize_It]

FINALLY! New Gaslamp hotel is going to start construction soon.

Finally indeed!!! This project is an important piece of the puzzle to make the Gaslamp and Ballpark districts feel complete. :cheers:

[nezbn22]

Finally indeed!!! This project is an important piece of the puzzle to make the Gaslamp and Ballpark districts feel complete. :cheers:

If I'm not mistaken, that leaves just two flat parking lot blocks in the area west of Park and south of Market: 7th and Market; and the lot bounded by 1st, 2nd, Island, and J. We'll (supposedly) hear what's in store for 7th and Market soon, and I believe the other lot is a Bosa-owned lot with nothing pending. Veeeeerrrrrrryyyyy slowly, the holes are being filled in...