SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[eburress]

Hey all new here, sorry to hijack the thread but this is probably one of the best places on the internet to ask.

I’ll be moving to San Diego in months and looking for insights on neighborhoods to move. I want something pretty affordable (no more than $2,000 for 2 bedroom) and also moving with 2 large dogs so a small yard is necessary. Will be working on the navy base so something within biking distance and light rail access to downtown. Want to live close to water where it’s cooler and don’t have to use AC much.

What are some realistic options? Chula Vista seems to be a pretty decent working class town with everything I’m looking for. Only heard bad things about national city but that was several years ago. Balboa park would be ideal but probably out of my price range.

Also, how is the rail system throughout SD? Looking at the map it looks pretty impressive, even more so than San Francisco. Does it have a frequent schedule? Does it go places you’d actually want or need to go? Or is it more a novelty?

Thanks in advance

I happen to like Golden Hill, Southpark, and if it's not too far for you, Pt. Lomas a lot. They're all more my speed than National City or Chula Vista. You might also have some luck in Banker's Hill, but it's been a while since I've looked at rents there.

The rail system works pretty well for events but it doesn't yet go where most people need it to go. Hopefully its usefulness will increase with its current expansion.

[CaliNative]

I happen to like Golden Hill, Southpark, and if it's not too far for you, Pt. Lomas a lot. They're all more my speed than National City or Chula Vista. You might also have some luck in Banker's Hill, but it's been a while since I've looked at rents there.

The rail system works pretty well for events but it doesn't yet go where most people need it to go. Hopefully its usefulness will increase with its current expansion.

Some of the North County cities are (relatively) more affordable. Not Del Mar or Solana Beach, but places like Oceanside, Vista, San Marcos, Escondido and even a few parts of Carlsbad. For affordable beach towns, Oceanside is (relatively) cheap; in south county there is Imperial Beach, but they frequently have sewage spills from overflows from Tijuana so the beach is unusable lots of the time. Before you rent or buy, research crime and homelessness. In some of the towns, it is an annoyance or worse. But in general, the San Diego area is somewhat safer than most big cities. If you like cool ocean breezes and overcast weather in summer ("May Gray", "June Gloom"), try to live within 5 miles or so of the coast. If you like summer heat and lots of sun, go inland.

As far as rail transit goes, the Coaster commuter rail has pretty frequent train service from Oceanside to San Diego. Bus service is widespread and frequent, but often slow because of traffic. The Sprinter light rail connects Oceanside, Vista, San Marcos and Escondido. The San Diego trolley (light rail) connects many of the south and east county communities, but will only extend significantly northward in 2021, when the extension to La Jolla and UCSD opens. There are no current plans to extend the trolley north beyond this point, but the Coaster train (and Amtrak) does make the connection. If you want to learn more about light rail service in the area, go to Wikipedia.com and type in "Coaster Commuter Rail", "San Diego Trolley" and "Sprinter light rail".

[HurricaneHugo]

I would have thought continuing the line from UTC and finally breaking into the north county down the jammed up 5 and ending in Oceanside would get the highest ridership of any new lines unless the thought is to leave the entire north county orphaned from the trolley due to the coaster line?

Kind of idiotic if the trolley is San Diego’s Key mass transit system into the future and they are going to ignore a large portion of its population base. The latest option of expansion of the 5 (the minimum version) is telling on how residents here view any future freeway expansions and the coaster although kind of solid is not the future unless they can add more Key stop points, get it faster and have a better plan in place if you need to go somewhere besides the coast line.

Way to go in ignoring nearly a million of your residents....:uhh:

I don't think expanding the trolley up the 5 is even on the 2050 plan?

Would alleviate some of the gigantic bottleneck there.

[HurricaneHugo]

Hey all new here, sorry to hijack the thread but this is probably one of the best places on the internet to ask.

I’ll be moving to San Diego in months and looking for insights on neighborhoods to move. I want something pretty affordable (no more than $2,000 for 2 bedroom) and also moving with 2 large dogs so a small yard is necessary. Will be working on the navy base so something within biking distance and light rail access to downtown. Want to live close to water where it’s cooler and don’t have to use AC much.

What are some realistic options? Chula Vista seems to be a pretty decent working class town with everything I’m looking for. Only heard bad things about national city but that was several years ago. Balboa park would be ideal but probably out of my price range.

Also, how is the rail system throughout SD? Looking at the map it looks pretty impressive, even more so than San Francisco. Does it have a frequent schedule? Does it go places you’d actually want or need to go? Or is it more a novelty?

Thanks in advance

By yourself or with family?

Look into Golden Hill and Sherman Heights and South Park.

I don't think CV or Point Loma is biking distance from the base.

Then again I'm out of shape...

[Nerv]

I don't think expanding the trolley up the 5 is even on the 2050 plan?

Would alleviate some of the gigantic bottleneck there.

Also little has been done to improve on the coaster which gets singled out as a transit success. Yes they have been double tracking along the coast which may help it’s arrival times in the future but it’s still lacking in missed opportunities for new stations.

Are you going to tell me adding just 2 new stations (1 at the Del Mar Fairgrounds and 1 near UTC) wouldn’t help increase its ridership by a fair amount?

Lots of talk but as of yet no serious planning.

The lack of a coaster stop at the Del Mar Fairgrounds and a SD Airport Trolley link are probably two of the greatest missed opportunities in San Diego County transit right now.

[mt_climber13]

Thanks for your responses, I really like the Pt. loma ocean beach areas. Oceanside too far and too expensive to commute. Hopefully be in SD this summer (only been there briefly a couple of timesj :tup:

[staplesla]

In an unexpected twist of events, developer OliverMcMillan has walked away from a $361-million plan to build hundreds of hotel rooms and an urban village on prime, waterfront real estate opposite San Diego’s airport.

Wednesday, the developer formally exited a contract with the Port of San Diego, which owns and manages the East Harbor Island site.

The surprise change in plans brings to a halt a years-long process to redevelop the Harbor Drive parcel that was once the home base for rental car companies Hertz, Avis and National Rent-a-Car (the businesses have since moved to the airport’s Rental Car Center garage on Pacific Highway). A portion of the site had also served as the former staging lot for airport taxicabs, and the area in question still includes the district’s Harbor Police Department headquarters.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-harbor-island-olivermcmillan-port-20190207-story.html

[staplesla]

A controversial plan to clear cars from Balboa Park’s central mesa is on hold.

Philanthropist Irwin Jacobs, who has long championed the Plaza de Panama project, said this week that philanthropists have halted fundraising efforts necessary to get the project to the finish line after three construction bids each came in at least $20 million higher than earlier estimates for the project.

“There is an excellent plan for how to proceed, but the costs are a little too high at this point,” Jacobs said.

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/government/the-plaza-de-panama-plan-is-on-hiatus/

[HurricaneHugo]

This city....

[Will O' Wisp]

This city....

Economy is slowing down, material costs are on the rise, and employment is still at an all time low. A lot of projects that were proposed 2-3 years ago and got held back in litigation don't make economic sense anymore. Real shame.

I'm sure something will get built on Harbor Island as soon as the money starts flowing again, but with Irwin Jacobs pushing into his 80s the Plaza de Panama project will have lost its strongest supporter by the time this all blows over. Will take a lot longer for it to find its legs again, if at all.

[mello]

I know that Ali Baba stock is down but I think he will eventually bring a new arena to the site behind PetCo and he is still worth 10 billion. He should pitch in the 30 or 40 million and ingratiate himself to the community. (To those that don't know he is Ali Baba CEO and his wife and children live in La Jolla and he owns the new indoor lacrosse team Seals).

Oliver MacMillan Harbor Island: You already have the Sunroad project on the nicer part of Harbor Island (open to wide expanse of the bay not in that little nook) moving forward with 500 rooms. You have Manchester PacGateway, and eventually Seaport Village redo. I think there is already so much coming in the pipeline that it might get too saturated. More and more hotel rooms are coming to downtown, and hotels on harbor dr next to airport are wrapping up soon.

I don't think this is a huge loss, they wanted to make it some kind of mixed use urban thing without housing.. Bleh retail is totally changing, notice how all the stuff at BallPark Village is sitting empty? Manchester project and Seaport Village will have retail so I don't think retail would have worked on Harbor Island anyway.

[sandiego_urban]

You all ready for a new tallest building outside of downtown? In North Park of all places! El Cajon Blvd? Someone showed me an Instagram post from Jonathan Segal on 12/30/18. In it, he says he hopes to break ground this Fall. I counted 30-31 floors.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7900/33222469078_edf1f754d1_c.jpg

His comment about it being under construction in Fall 2019.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7866/33222478478_292f7934ce.jpg

[spoonman]

Wow, that’s awesome

[gillynova]

Hopefully that gets built!

[IconRPCV]

A controversial plan to clear cars from Balboa Park’s central mesa is on hold.

Philanthropist Irwin Jacobs, who has long championed the Plaza de Panama project, said this week that philanthropists have halted fundraising efforts necessary to get the project to the finish line after three construction bids each came in at least $20 million higher than earlier estimates for the project.

“There is an excellent plan for how to proceed, but the costs are a little too high at this point,” Jacobs said.

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/government/the-plaza-de-panama-plan-is-on-hiatus/

Seriously, one man's attention gathering litigation against this project causes an amazing project to get cancelled, this pisses me off.

[embora]

At today's East Village Resident Group meeting the developer of 7th and Market/Ritz Carlton said he's had some good meetings regarding securing financing, and he thinks he is close to securing it. He suggested he could make an announcement in the next 30 days, and if that's the case, he could also start construction by the end of 2019.

He added that the development would have a Gelson's Market, rather than Whole Foods. I want to say someone already posted the news about Gelson's on this thread.

[Nv_2897]

Credit to @the_drysdale_team on instagram for the photos

Heres an update on the seaport village redevelopment and how it will ultimately affect the skyline im pretty sure Seaport San San Diego will unveil the photos on their site soon. The spire looks iconic and looks pretty unique. The entire project looks very organic and freeform it gives me Zaha Hadid vibes

https://i.imgur.com/qYobJ0q.png
https://i.imgur.com/Do2krir.png
https://i.imgur.com/OFAcciQ.png
https://i.imgur.com/z3w5chp.png

[Steadfast]

If the spire is built as illustrated, it will absolutely redefine the SD skyline... Nice find!

[plutonicpanda]

This would be incredible. Hoping it happens!

[eburress]

That's by far the best of these Seaport Village renderings I've seen. Hope it happens!

[Illithid Dude]

You all ready for a new tallest building outside of downtown? In North Park of all places! El Cajon Blvd? Someone showed me an Instagram post from Jonathan Segal on 12/30/18. In it, he says he hopes to break ground this Fall. I counted 30-31 floors.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7900/33222469078_edf1f754d1_c.jpg

[/img]

Hope this happens. I love Jonathan Segal's restrained modernist architecture. The idea of an altruistic developer is so strange, but here we are.

[Will O' Wisp]

If the spire is built as illustrated, it will absolutely redefine the SD skyline... Nice find!

I 100% guarantee that with that spire SD is going to be starring in a ton of movies. Why spend millions creating a CGI a city of the future when for a couple thousand bucks you can be filming in a real one? :borg:

[Will O' Wisp]

Horton Plaza movie theater is going down:

Horton Plaza movie theater closes after 33-year run in downtown San Diego; more closures coming (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-horton-plaza-theaters-close-20190221-story.html)

If anyone wants to catch a flick one last time you've got until the 27th. Stockdale is also apparently saying the only things staying from the old Horton Plaza are Jimbo’s, 24 Hour Fitness, the Lyceum Theatre and Macy’s. I got a feeling the Macy's might go too, but the others might have a good chance at making the transition to this new tech plaza (at least if Jimbo's will stop suing everything in sight)

[SDCAL]

Horton Plaza movie theater is going down:

Horton Plaza movie theater closes after 33-year run in downtown San Diego; more closures coming (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-horton-plaza-theaters-close-20190221-story.html)

If anyone wants to catch a flick one last time you've got until the 27th. Stockdale is also apparently saying the only things staying from the old Horton Plaza are Jimbo’s, 24 Hour Fitness, the Lyceum Theatre and Macy’s. I got a feeling the Macy's might go too, but the others might have a good chance at making the transition to this new tech plaza (at least if Jimbo's will stop suing everything in sight)

[QUOTE=Will O' Wisp;8485794]Horton Plaza movie theater is going down:


Thanks for posting. I’m confused about the whole Jimbo’s thing. They were told they will be staying in the new development, but they are suing?? I do hope Macy’s stays, it’s the only department store left downtown.

By the way, I have to laugh after reading the comments on the story.

What kind of old, cranky trolls are these replying? The comments are so stupid, are these people even located in the country much less in San Diego? They seem clueless.

Here’s a taste:

jrc92024:

“In a few years downtown will be back to where it was in the late 70s where it was full of homeless, hookers and druggies and do dangerous that it was a ghost town after dark.”

Gale Anderson:

“Downtown is regressing to where it was before Horton Plaza. Bars, peep shows, tattoo parlors, flop houses. Off limits to military personnel.”

Peep shows? I live downtown and can’t say I’ve seen a peep show anywhere. And off limits to the military, wtf?

This is why SD is so backwards in many things, politicians cater to ignorant morons like this.

[HurricaneHugo]

Spire looks nice and iconic!

Much better than the "Wings of Freedom" proposal we had some years back

[lx88xl]

Does anyone know if there any plans to redevelop Pacific Highway along the waterfront? The city at least needs to reduce the number of lanes.

[mello]

Great news about 7th and Market, what did they mean by "end of the year"? Is that Q3 or Q4... Lets get going on that and Seaport now! So tired of waiting.

[cactus22minus1]

[QUOTE=Will O' Wisp;8485794]Horton Plaza movie theater is going down:

By the way, I have to laugh after reading the comments on the story.

What kind of old, cranky trolls are these replying? The comments are so stupid, are these people even located in the country much less in San Diego? They seem clueless.

Here’s a taste:

jrc92024:

“In a few years downtown will be back to where it was in the late 70s where it was full of homeless, hookers and druggies and do dangerous that it was a ghost town after dark.”

Gale Anderson:

“Downtown is regressing to where it was before Horton Plaza. Bars, peep shows, tattoo parlors, flop houses. Off limits to military personnel.”

Peep shows? I live downtown and can’t say I’ve seen a peep show anywhere. And off limits to the military, wtf?

This is why SD is so backwards in many things, politicians cater to ignorant morons like this.

Those comments are, indeed, a bit insane. BUT there is some truth to the "Off limits to military personnel" comment. I was as confused as you are when I heard this, but it came straight from a guy in the Navy. They aren't allowed to hang out in the Gaslamp because there are too many temptations that could lead to civilians seeing military behavior in a bad light. It sounds crazy, but apparently true.

Does this mean downtown is regressing though? Of course not. People like to use the homeless problem (which is also very real) as a reason to bash on city council or downtown in general because they find it intimidating. They also probably haven't gotten around to many other cities before.

[JerellO]

[QUOTE=SDCAL;8485994]

Those comments are, indeed, a bit insane. BUT there is some truth to the "Off limits to military personnel" comment. I was as confused as you are when I heard this, but it came straight from a guy in the Navy. They aren't allowed to hang out in the Gaslamp because there are too many temptations that could lead to civilians seeing military behavior in a bad light. It sounds crazy, but apparently true.

Does this mean downtown is regressing though? Of course not. People like to use the homeless problem (which is also very real) as a reason to bash on city council or downtown in general because they find it intimidating. They also probably haven't gotten around to many other cities before.


Hahaha it’s NOT off limits to military personnel. A bunch of my navy friends are out there all the time

[Northparkwizard]

[QUOTE=cactus22minus1;8486773]


Hahaha it’s NOT off limits to military personnel. A bunch of my navy friends are out there all the time

I think what somebody is trying to say is that it's either not allowed or looked down upon military personnel partying IN UNIFORM in gaslamp.

[sandiego_urban]

Credit to @the_drysdale_team on instagram for the photos

Heres an update on the seaport village redevelopment and how it will ultimately affect the skyline im pretty sure Seaport San San Diego will unveil the photos on their site soon. The spire looks iconic and looks pretty unique. The entire project looks very organic and freeform it gives me Zaha Hadid vibes

https://i.imgur.com/qYobJ0q.png
https://i.imgur.com/Do2krir.png
https://i.imgur.com/OFAcciQ.png
https://i.imgur.com/z3w5chp.png
I agree with what others have already said, these are the best renderings of the redevelopment so far. If only (and a big if), it was 100' taller than everything else around it. And good call on the Zaha Hadid reference. I'm still salty that La Jolla residents stopped one of her homes from being built.

https://www.lajollalight.com/sdljl-futuristic-la-jolla-shores-home-plans-nixed-in-2012nov07-story.html

[sandiego_urban]

11th and B Proposal:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7861/47213905931_aa78f9680a_z.jpg

And once again, the 497' you see below is the mean sea level height, not the building itself. It's the reason the skyline looks like a freshly mowed lawn.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7927/47162046862_b343a7241b_z.jpg


https://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2018-40_11th-B_Drawings_3rd-Sub_11.16.18_reduced.pdf

[Will O' Wisp]

Thanks for posting. I’m confused about the whole Jimbo’s thing. They were told they will be staying in the new development, but they are suing?? I do hope Macy’s stays, it’s the only department store left downtown.

The only person who'd know the answer to that question would be Mr. Jimbo himself. Having dealt with lease issues and their related legal actions before, I can tell you it typically comes from a sense that they're "entitled" to compensation because things didn't go the way they intended. If this case goes to trial Jimbo's will probably lose on the basis of impossibility, impracticability, or frustration of purpose (i.e. it was impossible for anyone to run Horton Plaza as a "world class mall" per Jimbo's lease, the cost of trying to do so would have bankrupted Westfield, or unforeseen circumstances meant that if Westfield had tried they would have lost money and Jimbo's had an understanding that Westfield is in the business of making money). Jimbo's only path to victory is proving that Westfield had the capability to run Horton Plaza profitably as a high class mall, but for some reason chose not to. But there's a good chance Stockdale will settle with Jimbo's just to avoid a legal cloud hovering over their property, which is probably what Jimbo's is counting on.

Does anyone know if there any plans to redevelop Pacific Highway along the waterfront? The city at least needs to reduce the number of lanes.

Nope, but there are some ideas to remove lanes from Harbor Drive south of Laurel St.


I think what somebody is trying to say is that it's either not allowed or looked down upon military personnel partying IN UNIFORM in gaslamp.

Getting drunk and doing stupid things is discouraged for all military personnel, doubly so for officers and triply for anyone in uniform. Your CO is allowed to ban you from certain places if they think it will keep you from getting into trouble, but there isn't a general rule that the military aren't allowed in gaslamp.

Source: friend who's a naval officer.

[Will O' Wisp]

And once again, the 497' you see below is the mean sea level height, not the building itself. It's the reason the skyline looks like a freshly mowed lawn.


I mean, if you really wanted you could build a supertall in Horton Plaza. The FAA only has one legally defined surface that will require an airport to alter or stop flight operations if violated: the TSS.

https://i.imgur.com/D5LnrZ1.jpg

In addition there are the TERPS surfaces that if violated the FAA will shut down the various guidance systems, meaning aircraft would have no way to land in bad weather.

https://i.imgur.com/BgCyTA2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/FlKRCuL.jpg

And finally there are the Part 77 surfaces that the FAA prefers there be no violations of, but can't really do anything if penetrated other than require you add red lights to obstructions.

https://i.imgur.com/euYKSvz.jpg

Yeah... there's a reason the FAA doesn't like KSAN very much.

Anyway, it's CA state law says that anything penetrating the Part 77 surfaces can't be higher than 500' AGL (hence why 1 America Plaza tops out there). The rest is up to the city council, why seem to have set the 500' above sea level rule (Seaport Village says their new tower will be 500' tall, so presumably council has given them some indications they're going to allow an exception).

[HurricaneHugo]

After decades of suburban sprawl, San Diego eyes big shift to dense development

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-big-cities-housing-plans-san-diego-20190225-story.html

[Steadfast]

11th and B Proposal:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7861/47213905931_aa78f9680a_z.jpg

And once again, the 497' you see below is the mean sea level height, not the building itself. It's the reason the skyline looks like a freshly mowed lawn.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7927/47162046862_b343a7241b_z.jpg


https://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2018-40_11th-B_Drawings_3rd-Sub_11.16.18_reduced.pdf

Is this on the corner where the Jiffy Lube now stands?

[JerellO]

[QUOTE=JerellO;8486925]

I think what somebody is trying to say is that it's either not allowed or looked down upon military personnel partying IN UNIFORM in gaslamp.

Oh trust me NOBODY wants to go out partying in their uniform. Having been in the navy, we’re in those damn things almost most of our lives that the last thing military personnel wanna do is wear their uniform when they don’t have to, especially out.. you’re just making yourself a target. The guys you see out in uniform are either newbies, or they’re currently working and running errands or grabbing a bite to eat on their lunch or whatever

[eburress]

...so presumably council has given them some indications they're going to allow an exception).

You may be right but one thing to remember is the council did approve that too-tall Sunroad tower in Kearny Mesa which the FAA considered a hazard. A council approval doesn't mean much when the FAA is involved. :)

[Will O' Wisp]

You may be right but one thing to remember is the council did approve that too-tall Sunroad tower in Kearny Mesa which the FAA considered a hazard. A council approval doesn't mean much when the FAA is involved. :)

I actually have a bit of personal knowledge about this incident...

To understand this whole mess, know the only thing related to off airport construction the FAA is legally entitled to do is demand a new projects give them notice before construction begins so the FAA can determine if the effect air navigation or not. If this new construction penetrates a TSS or TERPS surface the FAA can issue a Determination of Hazard to Air Navigation and then... nothing. There is no enforcement mechanism at the federal level to prevent you from building a skyscraper three feet from the end of the runway.

Now in the event that some dastardly municipality decides to permit a hazardous structure the FAA has two options. First, the FAA gives out billions each year to improve airports nationwide. If a local government decides to take them, which they love to do since it's free money, the FAA require they pass laws stating that they won't permit buildings the FAA determines as hazards. The FAA could, in theory, sue for that money back if a city decides to ignore these agreement. In reality, that concept is on slightly shaky legal ground and so the FAA has never actually used that nuclear option.

The second choice, and the one the FAA always ends up using, is to require the airport to adjust its flight procedures until the FAA determines the hazard is mitigated. Usually this means requiring better visibility in bad weather conditions, so that it can be guaranteed that pilots will be able to see and avoid the obstacle. This is bad for the pilots, since now they can't perform certain maneuvers in rain or fog and the like.

What Sunroad did was bribe a city employee to issue a building permit after the FAA issued a Determination of Hazard to Air Navigation, in violation of the laws San Diego passed after agreeing to take federal money for their airports. They did this because they knew the FAA wasn't going to go full armageddon for a 20 foot height violation, and they assumed no one would notice or care if the FAA changed Montgomery Field's flight procedures. They almost got away with it too, no one noticed anything until the tower was already under construction and the FAA posted notice that they were adjusting the weather minimums in a few months.

Well unknown to Sunroad San Diego has one of the largest and most active communities of small aircraft pilots in the nation, who were absolutely furious at being taken advantage of. They threatened to sue the city for their loss of use and enjoyment of the airport, and they city's legal council advised that it would be extremely liable considering the building was illegally issued a permit. The mayor issued a stop work order, Sunroad tried to claim everything was fine because the city had issued it a permit, but eventually Sunroad was forced to tear down the roof of their building. They tried suing claiming the city had mislead them and that the city didn't need to force them to comply with FAA rules, but when all that happened became clear that didn't fly very well in the courtroom.

So as you can see even in that situation all the enforcement ultimately went through city hall, with the FAA's only role being to put up with Sunroad's begging pleas to reconsider their ruling after the city ordered them lop off the top two stories of their brand new building. In any case the FAA will almost certainly issue a Determination of Non-Hazard to Air Navigation to the Seaport Village Tower since there are already similar sized buildings closer to the aiport. They already utilized that second option decades ago, so there's no need to change anything on this project's account.

[chjbolton]

That airport pisses me off.
Just like the Seattle one or the Canary Wharf one in London...

[Streamliner]

I actually have a bit of personal knowledge about this incident...


Thanks for your insight on all of these airport/FAA issues. It's really helpful.

[Will O' Wisp]

Thanks for your insight on all of these airport/FAA issues. It's really helpful.

You're welcome, I view is a my little public service.

For any activists, developers, planners, or general concerned citizenry it's always important to know who is the one making the decisions. When you submit a 7460-01 obstacle evaluation form to the FAA, all it does punch in the Lat/Longitude and height into a GIS database that spits out if that single point in space is too close to the aircraft landing path. It doesn't even do an investigation to check if the developer lied. And unless the obstruction will utterly close down the airport the FAA will probably just force aircraft to fly over and around it, no matter how many delays or cancelled flights this will cause.

The FAA doesn't even evaluate what the building will be used for, if a city wants to build an orphanage directly under the flight path and expose dozens of children to sleepless nights that's its business. And the FAA also doesn't evaluate the paths of aircraft on takeoff, only mandates that airline certify that in the event of an engine failure they won't stray closer than 35 feet to any obstacles. If that means that a long haul flight would have to take off half empty for it to climb fast enough, the FAA isn't going to stop a city from making transcontinental flights economically infeasible (as San Jose is currently contemplating right now).

[The Best Forumer]

You're welcome, I view is a my little public service.

For any activists, developers, planners, or general concerned citizenry it's always important to know who is the one making the decisions. When you submit a 7460-01 obstacle evaluation form to the FAA, all it does punch in the Lat/Longitude and height into a GIS database that spits out if that single point in space is too close to the aircraft landing path. It doesn't even do an investigation to check if the developer lied. And unless the obstruction will utterly close down the airport the FAA will probably just force aircraft to fly over and around it, no matter how many delays or cancelled flights this will cause.

The FAA doesn't even evaluate what the building will be used for, if a city wants to build an orphanage directly under the flight path and expose dozens of children to sleepless nights that's its business. And the FAA also doesn't evaluate the paths of aircraft on takeoff, only mandates that airline certify that in the event of an engine failure they won't stray closer than 35 feet to any obstacles. If that means that a long haul flight would have to take off half empty for it to climb fast enough, the FAA isn't going to stop a city from making transcontinental flights economically infeasible (as San Jose is currently contemplating right now).

holy carp!

[The Best Forumer]

Thanks for your insight on all of these airport/FAA issues. It's really helpful.

i concur... we appreciate this forumer.

[Nv_2897]

Credit to steevosd on instagram

It looks like they are starting to assemble the construction crane to start working on the Navy headquarters building from the looks of it

https://i.imgur.com/9JJkepN.png

[Will O' Wisp]

San Diego City Council votes to eliminate parking requirements for new housing developments in transit priority areas (https://www.kusi.com/san-diego-city-council-votes-to-eliminate-parking-requirements-for-new-housing-developments-in-transit-priority-areas/)

https://images.kusi.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/proposed-parking-requirements.png

[Nerv]

Just me but I wouldn’t buy anything that didn’t have decent amount of parking tied to it. I’m all in on mass transit but we currently lack a system that would allow most people here to be car free.

I’m curious with this decision to see if any developers have any issues selling their product if it doesn’t come with perceived “realistic parking” for their owners.

[SDfan]

Just me but I wouldn’t buy anything that didn’t have decent amount of parking tied to it. I’m all in on mass transit but we currently lack a system that would allow most people here to be car free.

I’m curious with this decision to see if any developers have any issues selling their product if it doesn’t come with perceived “realistic parking” for their owners.

Lol, I'm the exact opposite. I'd totally buy or rent a space without parking if it meant it was less $$$. I live and work where transit is great, so it's not an issue for me. Anything else is a cheap lyft ride away.

And that's for the individual developers to decide. NIMBYs were screaming today that there would be no parking, but developers build based on market demand. If there is no demand for parking-free housing, guess what? There's going to be parking, and vice versa.

[Nerv]

Lol, I'm the exact opposite. I'd totally buy or rent a space without parking if it meant it was less $$$. I live and work where transit is great, so it's not an issue for me. Anything else is a cheap lyft ride away.

And that's for the individual developers to decide. NIMBYs were screaming today that there would be no parking, but developers build based on market demand. If there is no demand for parking-free housing, guess what? There's going to be parking, and vice versa.


Yeah, I’m not sure how it’s going to work out one way or another but if it gets the city moving forward more aggressively with any mass transit that’s a win I guess.

[joemamma]

I think, initially, new developers will simply build less (then currently required) parking spaces, not zero parking. Parking will just be sold separately from housing units. Buyers "choose" to not have parking vs. no parking is available.

I have a rental property in East Village where the tenant doesn't use their parking at all. They walk to work/fun. They take the trolley to school. I am considering lower the units rent and leasing the parking separately.

What areas of San Diego do you guys think would be best for first zero parking development?

[Will O' Wisp]

I think, initially, new developers will simply build less (then currently required) parking spaces, not zero parking. Parking will just be sold separately from housing units. Buyers "choose" to not have parking vs. no parking is available.

I have a rental property in East Village where the tenant doesn't use their parking at all. They walk to work/fun. They take the trolley to school. I am considering lower the units rent and leasing the parking separately.

What areas of San Diego do you guys think would be best for first zero parking development?

Other than downtown I don't see any area where it would be feasible right now. Maaaybe UTC after the Mid-Coast Trolley extension opens up next year, definitely North Park after a trolley line connecting it to either downtown or Sorrento Valley is completed in the 2030s. In the meantime there isn't quite enough critical mass in either density or public transit to see any large scale zero parking development.

[staplesla]

I think, initially, new developers will simply build less (then currently required) parking spaces, not zero parking. Parking will just be sold separately from housing units. Buyers "choose" to not have parking vs. no parking is available.

I have a rental property in East Village where the tenant doesn't use their parking at all. They walk to work/fun. They take the trolley to school. I am considering lower the units rent and leasing the parking separately.

What areas of San Diego do you guys think would be best for first zero parking development?

I live in UTC and our complex is one of the largest, charges $50/month extra if you want one parking spot. Roughly 70% of the garage is empty.

[Fozcat]

I walked through Horton Plaza last weekend, and found this posted at the old Lager Tap House. Looks like the food hall may be adjacent to the park after all?

https://i.imgur.com/W2ZEN6x.jpg

[SDfan]

Other than downtown I don't see any area where it would be feasible right now. Maaaybe UTC after the Mid-Coast Trolley extension opens up next year, definitely North Park after a trolley line connecting it to either downtown or Sorrento Valley is completed in the 2030s. In the meantime there isn't quite enough critical mass in either density or public transit to see any large scale zero parking development.

Do any of you folks take transit now? I am completely car independent and see there are LOTS of place where we could go parking free. If you live and work anywhere in the old grid or along a BRT line, you're good to go.

[Will O' Wisp]

Do any of you folks take transit now? I am completely car independent and see there are LOTS of place where we could go parking free. If you live and work anywhere in the old grid or along a BRT line, you're good to go.

I take transit all the time. But the problem isn't that I can't go to lots of places via transit, it's that I can't to the places I need to go in a timely fashion. For instance, I drive 15 mins to work everyday. To get there via transit would take me over an hour and a half and require a half mile walk. There are places to live within a 30 minute transit ride of my work or less, but none of them are dense and walkable enough to consider not having a car in.

So even though I live in a dense, transit rich area going carless isn't an option for me. And that's pretty typical for most people in SD right now, the majority of jobs aren't well connected to the walkable urban areas.

[Will O' Wisp]

News time!

First off, the city has released a new set of maps detailing the proposed new Transit Priority Areas, which will have lowered parking minimums.

https://i.imgur.com/uv5a3Hu.jpg

Full image here (https://www.sandiego.gov/sites/default/files/transit-priority-map.pdf). Additional info from the city here (https://www.sandiego.gov/planning/programs/transportation/mobility/tpa)

Second, YIMBYs swept the vote in the Uptown Planners community planning group. Rise Up Town rode to victory taking all 7 of the open seats this election, instantly gaining nearly half the seats of the 17 member committee. Uptown Planners has long been one of the the most NIMBY of the community planning groups, repeatedly demanding proposed developments downsize and even going so far as to sue the city for upzoning sections of Hillcrest. Another 7 seats are open for election next year.

http://datasurfer.sandag.org/api/estimate/2014/cpa/uptown/map

Map of the Uptown Planners' community boundary.

[Streamliner]

News time!

Seeing the TPAs visualized like that really shows how big of an impact this decision will be.

And great to see Uptown having a stronger YIMBY presence. Let's hope that it continues next year.

[Northparkwizard]

Seeing the TPAs visualized like that really shows how big of an impact this decision will be.

And great to see Uptown having a stronger YIMBY presence. Let's hope that it continues next year.

Urban infill development in the city is going to open up a can of whoop-ass on these NIMBYs. It's the best thing the city council has done in a very long time.

[Northparkwizard]

777 Beech Street Drawings. (https://dcpcsd.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/mar-2019-dr-item-6-drawings_03.04.19.pdf)
https://i.imgur.com/zQBWWfa.jpg

Park and Broadway Drawings
(https://dcpcsd.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/mar-2019-dr-item-7-drawings_02.28.19.pdf)
https://i.imgur.com/ETRcQKU.jpg

[Will O' Wisp]

Urban infill development in the city is going to open up a can of whoop-ass on these NIMBYs. It's the best thing the city council has done in a very long time.

Seriously. Being the skyscraper buffs we are there's a tenancy for this thread to focus on downtown, but DTSD is comparatively tiny compared to the rest of the city. Adding loads of affordable multi-family housing in North Park, Uptown, Mission Valley, and UTC will do far more to alleviate our housing crisis than attempting to cram absolutely everyone into downtown (which has a practical capacity of 150-200k, or roughly 3-4x what it has now)

[Nv_2897]

Credit to Scott Finn and Associates for the photos and renderings: https://www.scottfinnhomes.com/great-things-happening-to-expand-and-enhance-downtown-san-diego/ (https://www.scottfinnhomes.com/great-things-happening-to-expand-and-
enhance-downtown-san-diego/)
Hopefully they will be able to keep up with the timeline, I hope they are also able to preserve some elements of Horton in the new campus. I also noticed that the towers may have potential to create more density in the skyline
https://i.imgur.com/W3Zkdaw.png
https://i.imgur.com/JgerFHe.png
https://i.imgur.com/ONtw7cG.png
https://i.imgur.com/BitOFib.png

[sixonenine]

since we do have that 500 ft limit in downtown i think it would be cool to take that and run with it throughout the city. like can you imagine 500 footers surrounding balboa park since there is transit all around balboa park. plus many cities don't have super talls and still have nice skylines, like vancouver and sao paolo most of their buildings are in the 500's. also city heights deserves some attention especially since its an immigrant/ low income community there is a need for affordable housing and i can already see the hillcrest/north park gentrification starting to if not already leaking into city heights.:???:

[Streamliner]

Seriously. Being the skyscraper buffs we are there's a tenancy for this thread to focus on downtown, but DTSD is comparatively tiny compared to the rest of the city. Adding loads of affordable multi-family housing in North Park, Uptown, Mission Valley, and UTC will do far more to alleviate our housing crisis than attempting to cram absolutely everyone into downtown (which has a practical capacity of 150-200k, or roughly 3-4x what it has now)

A lot of other cities have multiple threads on this forum for different neighborhoods, but sadly San Diego doesn't have enough interested users. Whenever Vol. 3 of this thread comes out, I say we take out the "Downtown Boom Rundown" part out of the title and advertise it for all of SD County (and TJ too since I find their development interesting). Anything to curate more discussion :)

[Will O' Wisp]

A lot of other cities have multiple threads on this forum for different neighborhoods, but sadly San Diego doesn't have enough interested users. Whenever Vol. 3 of this thread comes out, I say we take out the "Downtown Boom Rundown" part out of the title and advertise it for all of SD County (and TJ too since I find their development interesting). Anything to curate more discussion :)

I mean I completely support this notion but, ummm...

https://i.ibb.co/ZS3vr64/SAN-Thread-Title.jpg

[SDCAL]

Credit to Scott Finn and Associates for the photos and renderings: https://www.scottfinnhomes.com/great-things-happening-to-expand-and-enhance-downtown-san-diego/ (https://www.scottfinnhomes.com/great-things-happening-to-expand-and-
enhance-downtown-san-diego/)
Hopefully they will be able to keep up with the timeline, I hope they are also able to preserve some elements of Horton in the new campus. I also noticed that the towers may have potential to create more density in the skyline
https://i.imgur.com/W3Zkdaw.png
https://i.imgur.com/JgerFHe.png
https://i.imgur.com/ONtw7cG.png
https://i.imgur.com/BitOFib.png

Thanks for posting this rendering. Are they not going to touch the exterior buildings along fourth? Obviously I know balboa theater will remain as that has historical significance and was recently spruced-up, but the other buildings look untouched. Also, aren’t those where the parking structure enters?

I was hoping (and I thought part of the point) of updating HP was to open it up more to street traffic, but if they are going to keep that wall of crap along 4th I’m not really seeing the vision.

[Steadfast]

∆
Totally agree... That stretch along 4th needs some serious rethinking. It's pretty dreadful.

Does that tower on the south side of the development look like it's replacing the current parking garage? Anything to address the back side of the mall would be huge.

[Streamliner]

I mean I completely support this notion but, ummm...

https://i.ibb.co/ZS3vr64/SAN-Thread-Title.jpg

Haha, you're right, but I associate the "boom" in the thread title with downtown, specifically the mid-2000s downtown boom from the original thread.

[JerellO]

I actually like that they kept the buildings along 4th ave. It creates that intimate urban street wall that is common in older cities that we don’t really have here in San Diego. Think 7th street in Los Angeles, or Market street in San Francisco.

I think what they meant about opening up HP was inside the mall, as with its current design is a huge cluster fuck of zigzagging paseos and bridges. I’m thinking they want to create a space where you can see from end to end, northeast corner of HP to the southwest corner, without any obstructed views. That alone will already open it up dramatically.

[SDfan]

∆
Totally agree... That stretch along 4th needs some serious rethinking. It's pretty dreadful.

Does that tower on the south side of the development look like it's replacing the current parking garage? Anything to address the back side of the mall would be huge.

I don't think they can change the 4th Ave buildings. They're separate apartment complexes built after the mall which cover the parking garages.

[Steadfast]

∆
That's a bummer. 4th could be so much nicer & pedestrian friendly than it currently is.
Hopefully this new development will at least try to address the malls street facing sides.

[eburress]

∆
That's a bummer. 4th could be so much nicer & pedestrian friendly than it currently is.
Hopefully this new development will at least try to address the malls street facing sides.

I agree. The rest of the project seems like a big improvement, but the stuff facing 4th was in my opinion the big transformative opportunity, and to not touch it is an opportunity wasted. Bummer for that, but the rest is exciting.

[Nv_2897]

Maybe that area would be reserved for phase 2 of the project?

[SDCAL]

Maybe that area would be reserved for phase 2 of the project?

There’s a phase two?

On a more positive note, park and market is looking really good. It’s already transforming that area and hasn’t topped out yet. I’ll try to get some pics

[Steadfast]

There’s a phase two?

On a more positive note, park and market is looking really good. It’s already transforming that area and hasn’t topped out yet. I’ll try to get some pics

Agreed. It's really going to transform that stretch of downtown.
Anyone know the height of the tower... off the top of their head? I don't feel like downloading the PDF from CivicSD site.

[Urbannizer]

https://caydonproperty.com/us/properties/4th-street-san-diego

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/02f610_6c51e80dd18c4f77ba9afae5680d0e21~mv2_d_4066_6000_s_4_2.jpg/v1/fill/w_532,h_785,al_c,q_90,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/02f610_6c51e80dd18c4f77ba9afae5680d0e21~mv2_d_4066_6000_s_4_2.webp

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/02f610_a65f6c45e6764db1ac7526785228d8f1~mv2_d_5652_9528_s_4_2.jpg/v1/fill/w_466,h_785,al_c,q_90,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/02f610_a65f6c45e6764db1ac7526785228d8f1~mv2_d_5652_9528_s_4_2.webp

[eburress]

^^ Ooooh!

[gantcalifornia]

This is how a sophisticated city develops. It respects its history, offering a layered cityscape that preserves the past, and showcases the future.

[superfishy]

Reaaaaaallly love that design

[HurricaneHugo]

Park & Market:

https://i.imgur.com/f2hkSJ4.jpg?1

[Will O' Wisp]

More airport updates!

Talks over how to connect the airport to public transit have been... happening. There isn't widespread agreement on much yet, even basic concepts like mode or connections to the wider system. Here's where we're at right now:

https://i.imgur.com/G6CAkUH.jpg
Most of the concepts focus on a transit plaza in this area, replacing a portion of the new T1 parking structure. Modes that can't share ROW with autos won't be able to run E/W along the south side of the terminals without causing access issues so all systems with dedicated ROW will need to dead end here with a single station roughly equidistant between the two terminals.


https://i.imgur.com/hJCx3dd.jpg
This is the first concept, using a shared ROW with auto traffic. The system would start out with shuttles similar to the existing rental car shuttle, which could feasibly be replaced with automated vehicles at a later date. It has the distinct advantage of primarily utilizing existing/planned roadway infrastructure, which would make it significantly cheaper than the other options, and is the only system that could realistically offer service to both terminals separately. The disadvantage is that transit vehicles would need to share space (and traffic) with autos in the terminal area, slowing down service. All the further concepts have dedicated ROW.


https://i.imgur.com/hDfmqAF.jpg
This is the first concept for dedicated ROW, connecting to either one of the nearby trolley stations trolley station, the proposed San Diego Grand Central Station at SPAWAR, or the Santa Fe Depot around the eastern edge of the airport with an APM. Flexibility is an advantage of this option, being the only one that can connect to all of the proposed transit centers. Disadvantages include the curvy up and down route (necessitated by the need to dodge under landing aircraft and over N Harbor Dr to stop on Harbor Island) and need to cross a fault line on the north side of the airport.


https://i.imgur.com/fZum0KD.jpg
This concept proposes swinging the other way around the airport, west through Liberty Station. Big advantage here is directly connecting the airport with an area dense with hotels and other tourist attractions. Disadvantage is the longer route and potential community concerns with running the ROW through/next to residential areas.


https://i.imgur.com/ZiZnQBr.jpg
The undisputed king of dedicated ROWs, this option would directly connect the terminals with the proposed San Diego Grand Central Station with a tunnel underneath the runway and the MCRD. Advantages here are extremely low transit times and potentially lower construction impacts. Disadvantages are the extreme difficulty of trying to construct a tunnel through wet silt, far below sea level. While you're underneath a critical piece of transportation infrastructure that cannot under absolutely any circumstances be allowed to subside even by a matter of millimeters, as this could cause cracks in the runway that would shut down the entire airport. There isn't a detailed estimate of costs yet, but I'd expect this option will be billions of dollars more expensive any of the others because of these issues. Also, the Marines have expressed some concerns with the idea of having thousands of airline passengers a day traveling underneath their secure military facility.


https://i.imgur.com/uAalQF6.jpg
The direct trolley connection option. This could be connected to either the Blue Line or the Green Line, or both. No one is going to argue with the advantages that offering trolley passengers a one seat ride to the airport would offer. The huge disadvantage is that compared to an APM the trolley turns like an alcoholic cow on ambien. The connection structure will take up two whole blocks in Little Italy (which are currently a gas station and a parking lot though) and may require temporary closures of some or all transit coming into Santa Fe Depot and Pacific Highway. The Coast Guard will also need to agree to give up a portion of their base fronting Harbor Dr and agree to be cut off from the street for periods of time (as consolation they could have their own trolley stop).


https://i.imgur.com/0ilqA6z.jpg
And finally, Gondolas. Kooky idea as it might sound there is some sense behind this, gondolas are the cheapest method of providing dedicated ROW and the least impactful to traffic on the ground. But there are some doubts about the capability of the system to handle the expected traffic loads. With those elevated tower traveling north to the proposed Grand Central is impossible, and SANDAG is very firm that the Santa Fe Depot doesn't have the station space to make it feasible for North County residents make a connection from the Coaster. To explain a little further, with only four tracks the Depot won't be able to handle the required Coaster headways of 5-10 minutes SANDAG says would be necessary to get North County residents out of their cars (this is also their issue with connecting an APM to the Depot).


So, what do you think is the best choice?

[spoonman]

I really like the idea of a moving walkway (or possibly train) under the runway. A moving walkway means no waiting for trains. This assumes the engineering challenges could be overcome with moderate cost. People will be far more likely to utilize transit to the airport if there are fewer connections. I’m not sure the length of the longest moving walkways, but Atlanta and PHX are pretty darn long.

PS: The gondola is embarrassing and is not serious infrastructure. Another SD half-measure.

[SDCAL]

The fact the gondola idea is still being floated is ridiculous. It would make our city a joke. Gondolas are fine for people who want to take in the sights, but using that as transit to get to the airport? San Diegans are resistant to taking common forms of mass transit, who thinks they will hop on a gondola to go to the airport.

I think the most logical proposal is the Old Town grand central station with a connector to the airport. That idea seems the best not just for the airport, but for our entire transit system as a whole

[JerellO]

^^ Ooooh!

The pictures won’t load :(

[mello]

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-ballpark-village-petco-park-development-20190319-story.html

So their last mega project allegedly got killed by the recession and now they wait another 11 years right before another recession is about to hit to propose a giant project.... Uh where were you in 2013, 14, 15 etc... :shrug:

Here is list of big projects which one will slide in to home plate under the catchers mitt of the recession that is looming:

7th/Market: This one seems safe should basically have financing ready now. Will be killed if market tanks in next month or two.

California Theatre: New redesign should appease the historians, they seem genuine and really want to get it done. Can approvals and financing come in time?

Alexan Little Italy: Want to break ground in late 2019, will economy hold until then?

Park Broadway, The giant pit that was the chinese restaurant (forgot exact name), Other tower near vangage pointe proposed by LLC, -- Are these really serious developers or just speculators?

JMI Mega Project: Too far from permits to make it in time for this cycle?

BOSA Semi twin to Pac Gate: No news in almost two years on this one, does Nat Bosa know that cycle is finished and international buyers have dried up?

[Will O' Wisp]

I really like the idea of a moving walkway (or possibly train) under the runway. A moving walkway means no waiting for trains. This assumes the engineering challenges could be overcome with moderate cost. People will be far more likely to utilize transit to the airport if there are fewer connections. I’m not sure the length of the longest moving walkways, but Atlanta and PHX are pretty darn long.

PS: The gondola is embarrassing and is not serious infrastructure. Another SD half-measure.

You're really limited with how fast you can make a moving walkway travel before making anyone who steps on it fall flat on their face. Think trying to get on a moving treadmill. To keep this from happening you can't get them moving much faster than ~1.5mph, and seeing as the new Grand Central will be a little over a mile away you can do some pretty quick math on how long it would take to get there....

"Moderate cost" is a subjective term, but compared to the other choices this is definitely the high cost/high benefit option. I can't stress to you enough some of the engineering challenges here. The airport was dredged out of the bay during WW2, dig down 4-8 feet and the muddy tidal flat it once was is revealed. There are only a handful of companies in the world that can tunnel through such saturated ground safely, and they charge whatever they feel like for it. Plus all the safety requirements related to earthquakes by having such a structure in weak soil (a pretty big factor for this project overall, you don't want to know what will happen to 1960's era T1 if the big one hits).

In return you get the only truly unhindered ROW though, with 1 minute or less gaps between trains being very feasible. Connections from the East are subject to the occasional need for the Coast Guard to transport aircraft and supplies across Harbor Dr to and from the rest of the airport. There might be some negotiations available for that though if the viaduct can be kept high enough though.

One SANDAG director is pretty much the entire push behind the gondolas. It's pretty unlikely that it will be chosen.

[joemamma]

Was this discussed here? Is this the spot where the rumored upcoming arena was talked about?

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-ballpark-village-petco-park-development-20190319-story.html

[Will O' Wisp]

Was this discussed here? Is this the spot where the rumored upcoming arena was talked about?

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-ballpark-village-petco-park-development-20190319-story.html

Mr. Mello mentioned it up above you. I don't think there's a lot to discuss since there's no formal plans, commitments, or anything beyond the basic idea of building high density housing on that spot (which has been discussed over and over again for the last decade).

I haven't heard anything about an upcoming area, and anyway this site is too small for a stadium of any real size. Parcel D is the Lexus Premier Lot, which is only slightly larger than a typical downtown block. Back when the downtown Chargers stadium was a thing it was proposed to replace the much larger Tailgate Padres Parking Lot and the MTS bus yards just to the east.

[CaliNative]

Was this discussed here? Is this the spot where the rumored upcoming arena was talked about?

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-ballpark-village-petco-park-development-20190319-story.html

It would be great if a downtown sports arena could be built. I can see it being done only if there is a guarantee of a major league basketball & hockey team (either expansion or relocated--maybe the Gulls could be upgraded to major league status with an expansion draft--doubt the Clippers would come back down here but maybe another team would--more likely a new team). Somewhere in the East Village near the ballpark makes sense. The old Midway arena could be torn down and replaced with thousands of apartments which are badly needed. The arena could also serve for large concerts and events tied to the convention center.

[joemamma]

I haven't heard anything about an upcoming area, and anyway this site is too small for a stadium of any real size. Parcel D is the Lexus Premier Lot, which is only slightly larger than a typical downtown block. Back when the downtown Chargers stadium was a thing it was proposed to replace the much larger Tailgate Padres Parking Lot and the MTS bus yards just to the east.

Rumor was about Joe Tsai buying land in East Village and building an arena for Seals/Brooklyn Nets. Also lumped in the rumor was moving the Anehiem Ducks to San Diego since Gulls (same owner) are so well supported here. Sharing an arena in DTSD right next to Petco could drive massive future development. I guess the location would be further South by a couple of blocks tho bc I do remember hearing something about moving the MTS lines which seems like a big deal. Someone had a mock up drawing of the arena location drawn over a google map. Ill see if I can find it. Rumor was from sports talk radio FWIW but also mentioned below:

https://www.10news.com/sports/local-sports/joe-tsai-shares-his-passion-for-lacrosse-with-san-diego-ponders-possible-new-arena

[HurricaneHugo]

Does anybody know the timeline for the Seaport village redevelopment?

When will SV be demolished?

When will construction start?

[staplesla]

Does anybody know the timeline for the Seaport village redevelopment?

When will SV be demolished?

When will construction start?

No date yet. The project has just started the public review commenting process by the Port (last meeting was 3/14/19).

According to this quote in this article from November, “A best-case scenario would see development commence in three to four years and a first phase open to the public in 2024. Of course, financing, environmental review and agency approvals would all have to align perfectly so as not to trip up developer 1HWY1’s progress.”

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-seaport-sandiego-20181104-story.html

[Nv_2897]

Does anybody know the timeline for the Seaport village redevelopment?

When will SV be demolished?

When will construction start?

According to Seaport San diego's website it says the estimated ground breaking date should be March 2022

Seaport San Diego: https://www.seaportsandiegoca.com/timeline.html

[Nv_2897]

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Civic-San-Diego-Legal-Ruling-Strips-Control--507860621.html
A huge blow to civic san diego. Do you guys think it means a longer entitlement process?:shrug:

[Will O' Wisp]

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Civic-San-Diego-Legal-Ruling-Strips-Control--507860621.html
A huge blow to civic san diego. Do you guys think it means a longer entitlement process?:shrug:

Of course it will, Civic SD issued permits in about half the time DSD does. And that's before all of downtown's building activity gets dumped on poor overworked DSD.

It was extremely nice while it lasted, when you turned in an application to Civic you could be sure it wasn't going to get stuck behind some McMansion in Point Loma the neighbors were demanding have every t crossed and every i dotted because it might throw some shade on their front yard. But Civic, especially at the board level, always had trouble dealing with being a nongovernment entity doing government work. Being on the board takes up a great deal of your time, requires a ton of very rare and very valuable expertise, and yet is completely unpaid. Inevitably the only people with both the specialized knowledge and the willingness to serve without pay were the most development obsessed people in SD: current and former developers/building consultants.

But bringing developers into your quasi-governmental agency brings up tons of issues with CA's stringent open access and anti-corruption laws. Attend Christmas dinner with your longtime friend and former coworker who still works in the industry? Congratulations, that's an illegal ex parte communication unless you write a letter detailing precisely what you discussed during the evening, disclose the value that may have been given to you (including the meal itself), and then have that published in a public registrar. Every single time you meet up with anyone involved in a downtown development project, or later becomes involved with a downtown development project, or even just works at a company which at some later point becomes involved in a downtown development project. Or you get personally sued by a bunch of rabid NIMBYs looking to kneecap anyone who doesn't gratify their contradictory desires.

Hopefully the city can work something out where downtown projects can still get a streamlined path to approval. Or at least hire more DSD staff.

[SDfan]

Hopefully the city can work something out where downtown projects can still get a streamlined path to approval. Or at least hire more DSD staff.

Word is that the city will likely absorb the civic staff and keep the process downtown as close to current streamlined process as possible.

I don't think civic's demise will have too much of an affect on the process.

Downtown projects have been subject to NIMBY delays in the past (7th & Market anyone?). Most projects will fit within the norms of what's expected downtown, while facing the same nominal opposition levels we see today.

[Will O' Wisp]

Word is that the city will likely absorb the civic staff and keep the process downtown as close to current streamlined process as possible.


That's even better than I was hoping for :D

Mind you I'm not saying downtown doesn't have NIMBYs (it does), but that as much as I love them DSD gets really bogged down with the demands of reviewing permits for the entire city. Especially since when once you get out of downtown you get a lot of small scale stuff where the project sponsors don't really know what they're doing, environmental/permitting wise. It's utterly painful having to wait months on end to have your EIR even looked at while DSD teaches the guys in front of you how to properly cover their butts, and then again waiting for your turn to come around after every screening. Meanwhile Civic starts with you almost immediately and you're usually out the door in less than 6 months.

If the city can keep a second line open for downtown projects with the same staff to workload ratio I don't think anyone is going to really care who's doing the permitting, but keeping those familiar faces is a huge bonus.

[S.DviaPhilly]

Coming along nicely

https://oi42.photobucket.com/albums/e338/Spiewak/IMG_7029_zpsahmqcbsv.jpg (https://s42.photobucket.com/user/Spiewak/media/IMG_7029_zpsahmqcbsv.jpg.html)

Does the second Pinnacle tower look taller or am I a tad off a bit?!?!?

https://oi42.photobucket.com/albums/e338/Spiewak/IMG_7030_zpslkb75qwr.jpg (https://s42.photobucket.com/user/Spiewak/media/IMG_7030_zpslkb75qwr.jpg.html)

[Streamliner]

Coming along nicely

Does the second Pinnacle tower look taller or am I a tad off a bit?!?!?


Thanks for the update! I think the two Pinnacle towers are 479 feet. So it might just be the perspective.

[mello]

I was on Shelter Island yesterday and 12th/Market is filling in a skyline gap from there. Now we need our major gap filler at 7th/Market to break ground already! They were supposed to have news in financing in April so lets hope announcement comes soon. Fed keeps printing money so this economic cycle keeps rolling :yes:

[SDCAL]

I was on Shelter Island yesterday and 12th/Market is filling in a skyline gap from there. Now we need our major gap filler at 7th/Market to break ground already! They were supposed to have news in financing in April so lets hope announcement comes soon. Fed keeps printing money so this economic cycle keeps rolling :yes:

Is there a way to find out the status of Park/Market financing? Like a public database or public records request or something ?

It seems like we just have to wait for Cisterra to make a public announcement which I’m not sure they even have to do?

I’m anxious for this one to break ground. Having this Ritz project go up a few blocks down from Park and Market (which is looking awesome!) would really transform the area.