SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[spoonman]

Donna Frye should choke on a cow dick.

LMAO
:upload_71700:

[eburress]

^ i dont see growth as a panacea for a citys $ problems - it can create many other problems in its stead.

good job El Güero on the chart.
i dont find that chart depressing at all (i live closest to san jose of the cities on that list - which compared to san diego is way more depressing). u guys down south are making good progress in creating a good downtown - uve come a long long way. think how far uve come compared to detroit, or even _enter city name_, texas (not to diss anyone - im sure ppl out there disagree).

just remember, a lot of places havent changed much, or if they have, not for the better
san diego is better, im sure we can agree with that

General, all-around growth might not be the remedy to all that ills San Diego, but corporate growth would go a long way towards that end.

The lame-ass people here wouldn't need to contribute any more money than they already do if there was a larger corporate base. If I recall correctly, each Fortune 500 company headquartered in a city contributes as much income (just in taxes) as a Super Bowl - and there are all the other economic benefits as well. Ultimately, corporate growth = a profitable city, better infrastructure, higher incomes, grand civic projects, etc...

[eburress]

just remember, a lot of places havent changed much, or if they have, not for the better
san diego is better, im sure we can agree with that

SD may be better than most other places, but that has a LOT more to do with it's geography than anything the city has or hasn't done.

[El Güero]

You should've put One America Plaza since it's one foot taller. But it's all good, it's only a foot and still shows the height differences well. This diagram makes you appreciate San Diego's height a little more, looking at San Jose's. :(


Still sad though.

My bad!! To be honest with you I don't remember why I chose Symphony Towers. There is one major mistake......:shrug:

[mongoXZ]

General, all-around growth might not be the remedy to all that ills San Diego, but corporate growth would go a long way towards that end.

The lame-ass people here wouldn't need to contribute any more money than they already do if there was a larger corporate base. If I recall correctly, each Fortune 500 company headquartered in a city contributes as much income (just in taxes) as a Super Bowl - and there are all the other economic benefits as well. Ultimately, corporate growth = a profitable city, better infrastructure, higher incomes, grand civic projects, etc...

One of the first steps to attract or nurture these Fortune 500s: building a new international airport. Lindbergh is our achilles heal.

At present the people running our city/county government and the vocal majority are conservative baby boomers nearing their golden years. They are San Diego's biggest NIMBYs bitching, complaining and shooting down any kind of idea that seems off the wall to them (like a Miramar International Airport or a Brown Field Cargoport or the project that'll potentially block their views). They are the ones that have kept San Diego from reaching its full potential.

As they expire over this decade we need to warm up the next generations into thinking that we ain't Mayberry anymore. We need to educate them, get them familiar with the idea of Miramar being our next airport or even a floatport off the Pacific. That way it wouldn't seem so "out of the box" to them.

[Derek]

My bad!! To be honest with you I don't remember why I chose Symphony Towers. There is one major mistake......:shrug:

No worries!:)

[mello]

One of the first steps to attract or nurture these Fortune 500s: building a new international airport. Lindbergh is our achilles heal.

At present the people running our city/county government and the vocal majority are conservative baby boomers nearing their golden years. They are San Diego's biggest NIMBYs bitching, complaining and shooting down any kind of idea that seems off the wall to them (like a Miramar International Airport or a Brown Field Cargoport or the project that'll potentially block their views). They are the ones that have kept San Diego from reaching its full potential.

As they expire over this decade we need to warm up the next generations into thinking that we ain't Mayberry anymore. We need to educate them, get them familiar with the idea of Miramar being our next airport or even a floatport off the Pacific. That way it wouldn't seem so "out of the box" to them.

I completely agree with this, babyboomers have been holding this metro area back big time. They fight any big project because they are already sitting pretty, they have made their cash and have butloads of equity in their homes.

Well what about us?? The people in our teens, 20's, and 30's look at the legacy the babyboomers have left for us! And eburress is right, it isn't that "San Diego the city" has done anything great. Our downtown is booming because of our weather, hilly geography, and beaches. People want good weather and views, that is why downtown has blown up.

Hell imagine, if Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, or Toronto had our weather, think how popular they would be, everyone would be flooding there. Anyway, corporate expansion is greatly needed here and I think eburress and Mongonzo or right... Out with the boomers :cheers:

[laguna]

Sorry pal, those who have the gold make the rules. If you want some gold you better earn it like we did. Complaining isnt going to cut it. Just because you are in your 20's or 30's and want to get what the older generation worked for, nobody is going to give you anything. I see from your posts that you want to use the power of government to force your views of city growth, good luck with that to my friend, your generation doesnt vote in high enough percentages. I am for growth and I think SD city government is inept. Arent some of them in jail for the strip club thing? The Navy wont give up Miramar, so forget that idea, it isnt going to work.

Did you ever play 'king of the hill' when you were a kid? That is what life is about, so start climbing, junior, I will be waiting for you at the top

[eburress]

^^ Please

[laguna]

:rolleyes: [continuing my rant]

If there are problems with San Diego's city government, it is because they are representative of the people who live here.

And maybe you think that the city government should not represent the people who live here?

Brilliant statement from the post where you answered your own post. Lonesome I guess.

[Derek]

This is a development forum, no personal arguing here please.

[SDCAL]

Sorry pal, those who have the gold make the rules. If you want some gold you better earn it like we did. Complaining isnt going to cut it. Just because you are in your 20's or 30's and want to get what the older generation worked for, nobody is going to give you anything. I see from your posts that you want to use the power of government to force your views of city growth, good luck with that to my friend, your generation doesnt vote in high enough percentages. I am for growth and I think SD city government is inept. Arent some of them in jail for the strip club thing? The Navy wont give up Miramar, so forget that idea, it isnt going to work.

Did you ever play 'king of the hill' when you were a kid? That is what life is about, so start climbing, junior, I will be waiting for you at the top

Sir or Madame, before you give people a lecture on whining, you should read your own post which itself is "whining" about people in their 20s and 30s.

I am 30 and have a full time job, as I would imagine others here do as well, so please spare us from the "I walked 90 miles in blizzards to school when I was a kid"- type lecture.

This is a development board for San Diego, and the people on here post comments on both things going good and things we think need improvement. I don't think pointing out problems with the government and things we would like to see done differently in the city in which we live is "whining". Your arguement is like that of the crooked politicians who try to pass off non-submissive citizens who are critical of the governement as "whiners" in an effort to marginalize their concerns so they can continue doing nothing. People need to speak up and be critical in order to impliment change and people have the right to be fed-up with the direction our city is going right now.

[bushman61988]

Sir or Madame, before you give people a lecture on whining, you should read your own post which itself is "whining" about people in their 20s and 30s.

I am 30 and have a full time job, as I would imagine others here do as well, so please spare us from the "I walked 90 miles in blizzards to school when I was a kid"- type lecture.

This is a development board for San Diego, and the people on here post comments on both things going good and things we think need improvement. I don't think pointing out problems with the government and things we would like to see done differently in the city in which we live is "whining". Your arguement is like that of the crooked politicians who try to pass off non-submissive citizens who are critical of the governement as "whiners" in an effort to marginalize their concerns so they can continue doing nothing. People need to speak up and be critical in order to impliment change and people have the right to be fed-up with the direction our city is going right now.

KUDOS, I AGREE

[eburress]

:rolleyes:

And maybe you think that the city government should not represent the people who live here?

Brilliant statement from the post where you answered your own post. Lonesome I guess.

Yes, that was my point.

[northbay]

Sir or Madame, before you give people a lecture on whining, you should read your own post which itself is "whining" about people in their 20s and 30s.

I am 30 and have a full time job, as I would imagine others here do as well, so please spare us from the "I walked 90 miles in blizzards to school when I was a kid"- type lecture.

This is a development board for San Diego, and the people on here post comments on both things going good and things we think need improvement. I don't think pointing out problems with the government and things we would like to see done differently in the city in which we live is "whining". Your arguement is like that of the crooked politicians who try to pass off non-submissive citizens who are critical of the governement as "whiners" in an effort to marginalize their concerns so they can continue doing nothing. People need to speak up and be critical in order to impliment change and people have the right to be fed-up with the direction our city is going right now.

well said!
real change only occurs when we challenge authority or the status quo

[dl3000]

Sir or Madame, before you give people a lecture on whining, you should read your own post which itself is "whining" about people in their 20s and 30s.

I am 30 and have a full time job, as I would imagine others here do as well, so please spare us from the "I walked 90 miles in blizzards to school when I was a kid"- type lecture.

This is a development board for San Diego, and the people on here post comments on both things going good and things we think need improvement. I don't think pointing out problems with the government and things we would like to see done differently in the city in which we live is "whining". Your arguement is like that of the crooked politicians who try to pass off non-submissive citizens who are critical of the governement as "whiners" in an effort to marginalize their concerns so they can continue doing nothing. People need to speak up and be critical in order to impliment change and people have the right to be fed-up with the direction our city is going right now.

Hear hear, well said. Resting on laurels doesn't make progress. There is no top to the hill, it just keeps going, and San Diego has a lot of climbing to do.

[keg92101]

Don't be suckered in. The market IS falling and likely will for the next 12 to 24 months!!! Count on it. Whn Legend units fall to about $375 per sq ft... on the 10th floor.... that's probably the time to start thinking of jumping in. Add $5 per sqft per additional floor, or -$5 for lower floor.

Here are 2 webites to visit and study up on before you lay down $500,000 for a condo unit (b/c that is still a lot of money):
Housing Bubble Bog (http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/)
San Diego Market Monitor (http://sandiegomarketmonitor.blogspot.com/)
Downtown San Diego Realestate (http://www.sdcondo.com/)

You know what's funny, any time someone says that the market will turn, or speaks of sales that continue to demand $500+ per SF, they are a realtor, or someone trying to manipulate the perception of the market. Don't you think there is some sort of motivation behind these websites as well? Lets see, the sky is falling, everyone bails out, people sitting on the sideline can get nice units on the cheap. Great plan. As for our place, we plan on living in it for 10 years, so who cares. Our unit is one of the last you will be able to get a decent price that isn't 8' ceilings and electric appliances (Fahrenheit). You get what you pay for, no mater where it is, downtown, BMR, San Francisco, etc... When you get the chance, walk into Alta, and offer them $400 per sf... oh, make sure you wait until after you walk the unit. That place is amazing. Thankfully, builders calling their places luxury can't anymore with true luxury units coming online...

[SDCAL]

An article from yesterday - am I missing something, how are new gates going to alleviate the airport problems, isn't what we need another RUNWAY!?

Posted date: 8/6/2007

Agency Trying to Get $650M Airport Project Off the Ground

Supervisor Opposes Plan to Add 10 Gates
By MIKE ALLEN

San Diego Business Journal Staff


Thella Bowens
Constrained on all sides, the single-runway Lindbergh Field has seen passenger traffic grow to the point that it needs at least two more gates to handle it. In addition, traffic going into and out of the airport continues to create bottlenecks.

“We are already behind the eight ball. Today we’re short by two gates,” said Keith Wilschetz, director of airport planning for the San Diego County Regional Airport Authority, the agency that manages the downtown airport. “And every year we’re going to be behind by another gate or two.”

Displaying pictures of traffic jams at the airport’s Terminal 2 taken in March, Wilschetz says that situation has likely gotten worse today because of the peak travel summer season.

Airport managers say a short-term remedy is to expand Terminal 2 or the farthest west terminal by 10 gates from its current total of 41.

The expansion plan that is still being examined also calls for constructing an elevated road to the terminal for easier traffic access, a possible five-story parking garage, and an overnight parking area for passenger jets that must be grounded to comply with a no-fly curfew from 11:30 p.m. to 6:30 a.m.

The latest cost estimate on the project is $650 million, Wilschetz said.

Changes Coming

“These 10 gates would only meet the airport’s immediate needs,” said Thella Bowens, chief executive officer for the airport authority. “If we’re going to be here for a long time, there’s going to be some strategic decisions made.”

Bowens is fully aware that Lindbergh Field will remain the region’s primary airport for decades since area voters rejected a proposal, 62 percent to 38 percent, in November to convert part of Marine Corps Air Station Miramar’s airfield to commercial use.

That vote prompted the airport authority to resume an overall master plan update that was put on hold while the agency concentrated on the site selection process for a new airport.

That process was undertaken because Lindbergh Field is on track to reach capacity sometime between 2015 and 2022, according to airport authority studies.

Airport authority board members say they are awaiting the results of a final environmental report that should be out by September before adopting the plan.

“It’s not a done deal until we see the EIR (environmental impact report),” said Bruce Boland, one of nine members of the airport authority board of directors and a former Navy rear

Boland said now that it’s clear Lindbergh Field is the area’s main airport, the gate expansion is a must. “Those 10 gates are badly needed so we can continue to expand the air transportation service to our citizens,” he said.
Opposition

However, not everyone is convinced that the airport authority’s plans are best for Lindbergh and the region.

Fourth District Supervisor Ron Roberts is adamantly opposed to the gate expansion project, saying the authority’s immediate action plan makes no sense in light of the agency’s earlier plans to build additional gates at the northeastern side of the airport.

More than 10 years ago, Roberts said the airport plans were to construct a mass transit center at Pacific Highway, along with ramps that would take traffic from Interstate 5 into the airport. Also, there were plans to acquire land from the Marine Corps Recruit Depot to enlarge the airport’s taxiways, and possibly build another runway.

Roberts said he and other members of the San Diego Association of Governments’ transportation committee will be taking a hard look at the airport’s environmental report. Sandag is a regional planning agency.

“The history of this airport for the last couple of decades has always been to provide for its immediate needs, but enough is enough,” he said. “This is some of the worst planning by any public agency I’ve ever seen.”

Told of his comments, Bowens said: “It is regrettable that Supervisor Roberts has not participated in any positive way in this first phase of the master planning. If he had he would see the clear benefit of the plan to the public traveling through Lindbergh Field.”

Passenger Counts Soaring

As more carriers, particularly regional airlines such as ExpressJet and Frontier, provide direct service to certain cities, the airport has seen its passenger counts rise annually in the last four years. Last year, 17.5 million passengers flew from and into the airport, up only 0.6 percent from 2005. But that number was up 6.7 percent from 2004.

In the first half of 2007, more than 8.6 million passengers came through Lindbergh, with the heaviest travel months, July and August, still to be counted.

Airport managers are also intent on using 44 acres of land just east of the existing commuter terminal the agency will get that formerly belonged to Teledyne Ryan. This year, the authority has begun assessing the extent of the site’s contamination in advance of cleaning it up. Teledyne Ryan used hazardous materials on the site during decades of aerospace manufacturing.

The gate expansion project was initially planned for the late 1990s when the airport expanded and improved Terminal 2, then called the West Terminal. At the time, the project included installing utilities and other infrastructure at the terminal that would permit adding a row of 10 new gates at a future date.

“The 10 additional gates would take care of our customers’ needs through 2015 with a high level of service,” said Wilschetz.
Besides the new gates, the project also aims to solve a problem related to parking jets north of the runway that are grounded here because of the curfew on airport operations.

Moving the jets each morning across the runway wastes time and fuel, and could be rectified if the parking area was on the west side of the airport, Wilschetz said.

[SDCAL]

another airport article from yesterday:




Cross-border airport terminal under study

By: North County Times wire services

SAN DIEGO - Travelers could park their cars in San Diego and fly out of Tijuana under a proposal to be studied by the San Diego County Regional Airport Authority, the authority announced Friday.

A so-called "cross-border terminal" would allow passengers to park on the American side and enter the Tijuana airport, which abuts the border, through some kind of dedicated walkway, possibly easing congestion at other local airports, said airport authority spokesman Steven Schultz.

Before the proposal could become a reality, however, the authority wants to know if passengers would go for it.


"We're not really to the stage yet where we're planning how that might look," Shultz said today. "We're planning a demand study to determine what the amount of use or demand for that service would be."

Today, the airport authority named a consultant team and outside advisory group to study the concept.

Infrastructure Management Group Inc. was chosen among four consultant teams interviewed by an airport authority panel in June.

They will work with an outside advisory group of representatives from San Diego Association of Governments, Caltrans, the Mexican government, local economic development groups, airlines at San Diego International Airport, as well as Grupo Aeroportuario Del Pacifico, which operates Rodriguez International Airport in Tijuana.

"We are excited to get the consultant team and advisory group on board as an important early step in examining the feasibility of this unique, bi- national approach," Thella F. Bowens, president and CEO of the Airport Authority, said today

The study should be completed by the end of the year, Shultz said.

As far as how the terminal would look, ideas range from building a terminal on the U.S. side connected by secured walkway to Tijuana's airport to just placing a walkway from a U.S. parking lot where passengers are processed on the Mexican side, Shultz said.

[Derek]

Like I said, I will never use the cross-border terminal. Ever.

[stockjock]

Some thoughts...

The San Diego Airport isn't going anywhere, anytime soon. One of two things will likely happen. Either the current location will stay and possibly expand if land opens up in the surrounding area, or it will move to Miramar if the Navy voluntarily allows it (don't hold your breath for this). It isn't going to be built in Imperial County nor will it be built offshore. Bottom line, barring a miracle, Lindbergh will be around for a long time.

All of the dreams of skyscrapers being built in excess of 500' in downtown San Diego are pretty much futile. As long as Lindbergh stays, the FAA restrictions stay as well.

The San Diego real estate market is probably not done dropping just yet, but the doomsday predictions by some pundits (mostly on other anti-real estate, those who bought are idiots, Armchair QB sites) are pie in the sky. Downtown San Diego property may well get cheaper in the short-term, but it's going to stay expensive and become even more expensive once the dust settles.

I'll be at the Padres vs. Giants game at Petco Park tonight, and I hope that Barry Bonds does not tie or break the major league home run record in our house.

That is all.

[Marina_Guy]

When you get the chance, walk into Alta, and offer them $400 per sf... oh, make sure you wait until after you walk the unit. That place is amazing. Thankfully, builders calling their places luxury can't anymore with true luxury units coming online...

Friend of mine lives in Alta. Very nice building. ANKA, the Austrialian developers, did a nice job. Very upscale, contemporary finishes. Don't care much for the top of building though. I think they kinda messed it up adding a few more floors.

As far as prices of condos go, time will tell. All I know is that if the quality of life in an urban area improves, so will prices (long term). It is amazing to see what real estate costs in London and all other major international cities. If San Diego has leadership that will work to improve its infrastructure, invest in civic structures and parks...the future will look bright.

[eburress]

Like I said, I will never use the cross-border terminal. Ever.

Why is that? Personally, I would use a cross-border terminal before I would use a floating one. ;)

In all seriousness, this proposal doesn't sound like a permanent airport solution...just a means of easing congestion. Maybe I misread though.

[laguna]

This is a development board for San Diego, and the people on here post comments on both things going good and things we think need improvement. I don't think pointing out problems with the government and things we would like to see done differently in the city in which we live is "whining". fed-up with the direction our city is going right now.

Maybe you should read what the purpose of this board is, city compilations is listed under 'projects and construction' and the purpose is stated as,
"A place to report active highrise/urban development occurring in your city".

Does it say anything about pointing out what you see as problems with your city government? Why not do as other threads are doing and report on construction of highrises, I see some of that, but mostly it is plaintive threads about how the older people are not doing what you know is best for the city. Look at the Las Vegas forum and see how they do it.

I will leave this thread to those of you who think it is like Kos or one of the fringe political sites, or maybe it is like a lonely-hearts club site.

Adiu

[Derek]

Why is that? Personally, I would use a cross-border terminal before I would use a floating one. ;)


It just doesn't seem right. I don't want our fine city to share a terminal with Tijuana. (Sorry TJ!)

[Derek]

I'll be at the Padres vs. Giants game at Petco Park tonight, and I hope that Barry Bonds does not tie or break the major league home run record in our house.

Too late. :(

Oh well, fuck him.

[dl3000]

Maybe you should read what the purpose of this board is, city compilations is listed under 'projects and construction' and the purpose is stated as,
"A place to report active highrise/urban development occurring in your city".

Does it say anything about pointing out what you see as problems with your city government? Why not do as other threads are doing and report on construction of highrises, I see some of that, but mostly it is plaintive threads about how the older people are not doing what you know is best for the city. Look at the Las Vegas forum and see how they do it.

I will leave this thread to those of you who think it is like Kos or one of the fringe political sites, or maybe it is like a lonely-hearts club site.

Adiu

Correction: Adieu....Bye.


As I heard on the radio, congrats to Barry and his very large syringe. I say better here, it robs him of his celebration at home, of course he'll wait to beat the record till he's in SF.

I see the cross border terminal as the most realistic of the far fetched airport remedies. Their approach is not affected by Otay, they have some space for an additional runway, and all landside facilities could be in the US, only the gates, taxiways, and runway would be in Mexico, sounds very feasible if it would get us some nonstop international flights outside the continent.

[spoonman]

^I agree with you dl3000 about TJ being the most feasible, but I also think it is unacceptable. To think that the best option we have is to share an airport with a neighboring country is repugnant. I'll support trying to put a second runway at SDIA before supporting this. This plan and the plan to add only 10 gates to get us all the way until distant 2015 [sarcasm] is another example of the Airport Authority finding bogus solutions or non-solutions in order to guarantee their positions another 10 years and pander to their interests.

[eburress]

Maybe you should read what the purpose of this board is, city compilations is listed under 'projects and construction' and the purpose is stated as,
"A place to report active highrise/urban development occurring in your city".

Does it say anything about pointing out what you see as problems with your city government? Why not do as other threads are doing and report on construction of highrises, I see some of that, but mostly it is plaintive threads about how the older people are not doing what you know is best for the city. Look at the Las Vegas forum and see how they do it.

I will leave this thread to those of you who think it is like Kos or one of the fringe political sites, or maybe it is like a lonely-hearts club site.

Adiu

Wow, you're so clever. You must have learned that at the top.

[eburress]

It just doesn't seem right. I don't want our fine city to share a terminal with Tijuana. (Sorry TJ!)

I agree it doesn't seem right, but at this point, I think I would take a half-assed, second rate solution over what we're doing now (putting makeup on a pig).

[dl3000]

^Agreed.

[ShekelPop]

Ok, I'm gonna try again to post the NBC Renderings taken off the CCDC link to the Phase 1 Renderings:

First a wide shot, for some context:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1434/1020728785_4b6d21fd81.jpg?v=0

Building 2 - 13-Story Office (facing Harbor Dr.)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1185/1019194553_04807a53f0.jpg?v=0

Building 3 - 28-Story Twin Tower Hotel (looking East, Southeast)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1404/1020056530_61f31d6fd6.jpg?v=0

Building 4 - 10-Story "lighthouse" style Hotel (facing Harbor Dr.)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1014/1020056728_fbb559da63.jpg?v=0

Also Building 4 - view looking NE from Harbor Dr. (you can see the twin tower hotel in the upper left corner)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1030/1020730915_df5b276055.jpg?v=0

Building 5 - Navy Administration Complex (250 Feet, which most of us had already seen)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1321/1019195671_9b45d718a2.jpg?v=0

Interior Promenade looking south toward the colonial-style hotel building From E St. You can see the conceptual 30 foot wide digital screen at the terminal end of the promenade attached to the Colonial Hotel building. the foreground of this photo has the base of the twin tower hotel on the left and the office tower (building 2) on the right.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1142/1020730065_5d2adab75d.jpg?v=0

finally, the full site (from behind) looking NW from the Hyatt
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1153/1021595308_50a4b1fea9.jpg?v=0

Again, the legend to the buildings, as you can see we're still waiting on Buildings 1 (officially), 6, and 7:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070721/images/navy430.gif

Oh, and I know how excited a lot of you get about the park/open space, so I was able to get a rendering of the park in front of Building 1 from a friend of mine involved in the project:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1220/1020206670_66107e0117.jpg?v=0

[Derek]

That park looks great! :jester:

Thanks for posting those. :)

[spoonman]

:breakcomp:








PS: That was pretty good...

[bmfarley]

Too late. :(

Oh well, fuck him.
Yeah, but, the San Diego skyline beyond Petco confines will be immortalized for a long time. At least until Alex Rodriquez passes Bonds after he retires.

[mongoXZ]

The twin tower hotel actually looks good. But there is nothing in building 4 that looks like a lighthouse. It looks more like the existing building on that site right now.

[Filambata]

Check out an awesome waterfront rendering from a presentation posted at CCDC's website. See page 2 in particular.

http://www.ccdc.com/events/resources/NEVP%20JPA%200726%20%20Irvine%20Presentation.pdf

[Derek]

What would it take to relocate all of Park Row's residents and mow down the entire complex? It KILLS everything.

[spoonman]

^Maybe our effete Airport Authority will decide that Park Row can be turned into a giant heliport in order to solve our airport woes...

[spoonman]

What would it take to relocate all of Park Row's residents and mow down the entire complex? It KILLS everything.

Nothing short of arson my friend...lol

[Derek]

:jester:


Wouldn't that be something.

[Derek]

Seriously though, it's worse than the current NBC if you ask me.

[HurricaneHugo]

I still hate the Irvine tower.

[bushman61988]

I still hate the Irvine tower.

AGREED. Those renderings, while really cool, did absolutely nothing for this tower. It's still a f****** box!!! A Pretty filler tower that does NOT belong on THE most prominent site on our bayfront...Shame, SHame Shame. It'll be there forever while the phony architects try to pass it off as "Timeless".... I.M. Pei and Irvine can Suck my timeless cock!!!

[eburress]

^^ Unfortunately, I don't think there's much more anybody can do with the height limit the way it is. I've warmed to the building a little and think it probably is relatively timeless (unlike some, this won't look dated anytime soon), but it is a HUGE letdown for those of us who were expecting a "signature" tower.

[Derek]

I was expecting a lot more.

[ShekelPop]

I have to disagree with some of your negative feelings on Irvine's 700 tower, given the following:

1) Not a Twin Tower
2) No fins or other sea-like protruding edges
3) Not a build-by-number glass building that should be in Anaheim or Dallas
4) Doesn't look like a penis
5) Not a Hotel
6) Not a municipal project
7) Not Manchester development

the above criteria clearly demonstrates this is technically the finest currently-proposed office tower in the city

[CoastersBolts]

The only thing I'm looking forward to regarding 700 West Broadway is that it is an office building. Had it been yet another unnecessary condo tower it would have been embarrassing seeing a darkened tower standing at such a prominent site every night. At least with an office structure, it will stand out at night by being illuminated.

[eburress]

I have to disagree with some of your negative feelings on Irvine's 700 tower, given the following:

1) Not a Twin Tower
2) No fins or other sea-like protruding edges
3) Not a build-by-number glass building that should be in Anaheim or Dallas
4) Doesn't look like a penis
5) Not a Hotel
6) Not a municipal project
7) Not Manchester development

the above criteria clearly demonstrates this is technically the finest currently-proposed office tower in the city

All excellent points, although I would suggest that San Diego should consider itself lucky if it were to ever receive some of Dallas' build-by-number glass towers!! :)

[SDCAL]

:frog: I have to disagree with some of your negative feelings on Irvine's 700 tower, given the following:

1) Not a Twin Tower
2) No fins or other sea-like protruding edges
3) Not a build-by-number glass building that should be in Anaheim or Dallas
4) Doesn't look like a penis
5) Not a Hotel
6) Not a municipal project
7) Not Manchester development

the above criteria clearly demonstrates this is technically the finest currently-proposed office tower in the city

true, I especially like that it will be an office tower, it just seems like it represents a bow to conservatism and blandness on the part of world renowned architects who could have done so much better. I wonder how much of the plain design was done just because it is SD and how much different the building would have been if IM Pei and partners were tasked with a prominent signature tower in LA or SF or Seattle. Height is a hinderance but I would think such esteemed architects would have been able to create the "wow" factor in the design itself knowing it they would not be able to achieve it based on height.

The building is VERY OC - - I used to work up in Irvine and this seems like an exact replica of the Irvine Companies office towers in OC, in fact the whole NBC complex strikes me as being very Irvine-ish

[ShekelPop]

:frog:

true, I especially like that it will be an office tower, it just seems like it represents a bow to conservatism and blandness on the part of world renowned architects who could have done so much better. I wonder how much of the plain design was done just because it is SD and how much different the building would have been if IM Pei and partners were tasked with a prominent signature tower in LA or SF or Seattle. Height is a hinderance but I would think such esteemed architects would have been able to create the "wow" factor in the design itself knowing it they would not be able to achieve it based on height.

The building is VERY OC - - I used to work up in Irvine and this seems like an exact replica of the Irvine Companies office towers in OC, in fact the whole NBC complex strikes me as being very Irvine-ish

I'm glad you brought up these two items - the wow factor, and those Irvine towers. I was thinking about the same thing just now. I realized during my lunch that we shouldn't have ever expected any wow factor at all, because if you've seen those Irvine towers (the ones by spectrum apply, but especially those at 405 and Jamboree) then you're familiar with Donald Bren's notoriously specific design and color palate. Although he recently stepped down from Irvine Co.'s day to day operations, I'm fairly certain he controlled the design of the 700 tower because of its textbook design and color. Its one thing for Irvine Co. to purchase existing towers that break from his tastes, but an Irvine Co. original is sure to conform to his preferences, and he will never deviate from those, thus the reason all Irvine Co. constructed office towers in Irvine are essentially variations on the same theme. My most recent conclusion being that we were fooled by Pei Cobb's involvement and failed to realize its basically a Donald Bren designed building, which isn't awful, but surely not anything that would WOW us.

I also agree with your OC sentiment on the NBC complex in general, I also can't shake the feeling of that OC-ish office tower facing Harbor.

[IconRPCV]

Actually the development I am most excited about is Lane Field. This site, more than any other, is the most "Front Porchish" in the city, think all those cruise ship disimbarkers, and what is it that greets them, an ugly parking lot and a portable building doubling as a tourist info center. They can't build that site quick enough for me, it is totally embarissing as it is now. I only wish they could raze those horriblly garish Holiday Inns next door as well.

[obendega]

I am so with you on those Holiday Inn buildings.

That is a prime location and they are hideous.

[mongoXZ]

We should send the people at Manchester and The Irvine Company these pictures of what a real signature tower/development looks like.

San Francisco Transbay Terminal

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1243/1035676673_38da517618_o.jpg

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9348/retrieveassetca2cvd6wik8.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/1623/dsc01107go3.jpg

http://sfgate.com/c/pictures/2007/08/07/ba_transbay0708.jpg

[eburress]

^^ Although even that beauty of a building would look like a turd once you adjusted its height down to the point that it would be allowed in downtown San Diego.

[Derek]

I don't like that design actually.

[Crackertastik]

I don't like that design actually.

irregardless, its a signature tower, not a box pretending to be a signature tower.

I honestly don't think san diego could have a signature tower, because to me it is supposed to stand out, stand alone, either taller or extremely unique. the height limitation restricts it completely.

[eburress]

irregardless, its a signature tower, not a box pretending to be a signature tower.

I honestly don't think san diego could have a signature tower, because to me it is supposed to stand out, stand alone, either taller or extremely unique. the height limitation restricts it completely.

I agree. Given our limitations, I think signature towers are practically impossible here. :(

[SDCAL]

^I like the SF building design, the street level rendering looks cool
i agree that if that same design was brought down to 500 it would look like shit

[Derek]

irregardless, its a signature tower, not a box pretending to be a signature tower.

I honestly don't think san diego could have a signature tower, because to me it is supposed to stand out, stand alone, either taller or extremely unique. the height limitation restricts it completely.

Good point.

[SDDTProspector]

Does anyone have a opinion about how much the NBC design regressed from it orginal designs, even 4 months ago. I never liked the NBC proposal but now it even looks like a cheap stripmall. I wouldn't be suprised if a Pat & Osscars would anchor the far south corner of the project. I remember even seeing a 1990 conceptual plan of what could be proposed.... to what Mancheter and Tucker Saddler in Proposing is TRASH...Thorw it out!!!! Shame on the those two firms.

[SDCAL]

Good point.

only proposals i've seen that come close to "signature towers" were library tower and (especially) cosmo square. I think both proposals did a good job considering the f'd up height restrictions they were dealing with.

now that those two are apparently dead, I have a very gloomy outlook for the east village skyline. Maybe when things pick up the projects will resurect, or maybe even better things will take shape, but right now dt development has seemed to hit a depressing and gloomy low in the quality of projects :sly:

[Derek]

I agree with you definitely about those two towers, and I pray that they will be ressurected.

[bushman61988]

:previous: Wow, really? While Agree with you guys about the Cosmopolitan Square, which would have definitely been on of the most awesome, definitive towers in the skyline and would've looked GREAT from Petco Park, I personally don't think the Library Tower was all that great. Sure, it was tall and slender, but that exterior IMO was awful...it also looked gray, so the tower seemed to me like it could've came out as this long slender slab of exposed concrete w/ balconies...eww...but at least it would've added some height to the area.

[Derek]

I don't know. I have just always liked the Library Tower. Cosmo Square was definitely the most gorgeous proposal that I have seen. It's a shame it won't go up (at least anytime soon).


Maybe if the Main Library was built, the Library Tower might get a small jumpstart?

[spoonman]

Personally I really liked both towers and I have been very critical of many of downtown's recent developments.

Does anyone else believe that the speed at which these projects came out may have had something to do with the quality of the designs. I suspect that many of these developers just tried to push their buildings through during the boom. When towers were selling like hotcakes there wasn't much incentive to build impressive or overly fancy buildings. Since the market has toughened up perhaps this will change soon. I'm not saying this was the sole reason for a lot of the desings, but it may have something to do with it. Anyone else think so? Maybe that's what happened to Miami??

BTW; doesn't anyone consider Shapery Park Tower a signture tower? I know some people don't think it's an attractive building, but many people think Transbay is ugly too.

[Derek]

Transbay is 1000% times better than Shapery Park. And Transbay isn't too pretty.

[mongoXZ]

i know it's all subjective but CMON! SOM's proposal for SF is a beauty! what more can you ask for? There was a good amount of imagination and effort put into the architecture especially when you compare it to SD's more recent proposals.

And I wasn't suggesting to pare it down to meet San Diego's 500 ft limit but to inspire those sorry architects and planners who thought up the Irvine proposal or NBC complex. Sure, Transbay has no height restrictions but that doesn't mean all 500ft (or less) buildings have to look like crap. . . which what they look like.

Just look at the renderings of the Irvine tower or NBC complex and place them next to the renderings of Transbay. SD's proposals look EXTREMELY amateurish IMO.

[mongoXZ]

BTW; doesn't anyone consider Shapery Park Tower a signture tower? I know some people don't think it's an attractive building, but many people think Transbay is ugly too.

I forgot about Shapery Park and I think it is probably the closest we can get to a new signature tower. But remember One America Plaza was supposed to be our skyline's icon but is now further lost in the crowded 500ft plateau.

Spinnaker, as much as everyone hates it, can be a signature tower simply because of its dynamic shape and location.

[spoonman]

I forgot about Shapery Park and I think it is probably the closest we can get to a new signature tower. But remember One America Plaza was supposed to be our skyline's icon but is now further lost in the crowded 500ft plateau.

One America Plaza has served the city well as an icon for the last 15 years. It's too bad it's become lost in the shuffle. Our city does have a lot of tall buildings downtown though even if they aren't supertalls, most people other than us nerds probably don't even notice things like that. Most people would notice things like the feel of the city. Whether it is one of those downtowns which is like an office park, or if it has activity, uniqueness and character.

We often let our height limit get in the way of appreciating how much our center city area has returned to livability. The vibrancy that has been brought back has become a model for other cities. Yes, there are other cities with taller buildings, but that doesn't matter on the ground, only when you are away from the very area you wish to be. I know we all like tall buildings but lets not overlook the area where we do better than most.

[Gets down from soapbox]

Spinnaker, as much as everyone hates it, can be a signature tower simply because of its dynamic shape and location.[/

Sorry, no offense MongoXZ, but I can think of anything more amateurish than a sail shaped Dubai knockoff that isn't even 400 feet tall.

[Derek]

I agree with Mongo about Spinnaker though. It's different.

[mongoXZ]

Sorry, no offense MongoXZ, but I can think of anything more amateurish than a sail shaped Dubai knockoff that isn't even 400 feet tall.

None taken. I personally don't see it as amateurish but more of an opportunity for the skyline to have a separate focal point from different angles. Much like the way the Statue of Liberty does for New York and the Coit tower does for San Fran.

And I, too, realize that SD has come a long way to serve as a model for vibrancy and revitalization. I'm just disappointed whenever I see other cities get to have grand designs like Transbay and we're stuck with an Irvine tower that belongs to UTC.

[eburress]

Does anyone have a opinion about how much the NBC design regressed from it orginal designs, even 4 months ago. I never liked the NBC proposal but now it even looks like a cheap stripmall. I wouldn't be suprised if a Pat & Osscars would anchor the far south corner of the project. I remember even seeing a 1990 conceptual plan of what could be proposed.... to what Mancheter and Tucker Saddler in Proposing is TRASH...Thorw it out!!!! Shame on the those two firms.

I really like the NBC buildings. I just wish the buildings further away from the water (especially the tallest one) were a little taller.

[Marina_Guy]

I'm glad you brought up these two items - the wow factor, and those Irvine towers.... you're familiar with Donald Bren's notoriously specific design and color palate.

Irvine Company = Travertine. Do they own a travertine plant somewhere?

Orange County Bland, oh and conservative and safe too. Beige is safe.

They just finished (or about to) the NBC building in Horton Plaza. A mid-century classic... now covered in travertine.

Only hope for Irvine is that they bring some big employers downtown. We will see.

[eburress]

^^ I think their building is OK. Not great and certainly not "signature," but not entirely bad either. On the bright side, its unadventurous design will make much more timeless.

[Derek]

It would be a perfectly fine tower if it weren't for it's location, in my opinion.

[HurricaneHugo]

Spinnaker, as much as everyone hates it, can be a signature tower simply because of its dynamic shape and location.

If only it was taller.

[Derek]

Speaking of Spinnaker, has anybody even heard any news on it?

[bmfarley]

I am interested in seeing some pictures of locally proposed projects about now. It's been awhile since we've seen anything, right?

The CCDC project list page motivated me. I saw that the list was updated on August 7th. But, for the life of me I could not locate the projects that were updated or are new. I did find a couple new pictures. like:

E82... either its 14th & K or it's 15th & Market (Construction expected to begin in late 2007)
http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/15+Mkt_rendering_72.jpg

E57... Hotel Indigo at 9th & Island(Construction expected to begin in Winter 2007. Is that this December? Or suppose to be last January?)
http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/061027_CCDC.jpg
Okay, this image is not knew. But, I like it.

I'd love to see this one get build; L30...Pier (Construction expected in late 2007)
http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/VW%20Ketter%20Grape.jpg

Sadly, I don't think CH8...Atmosphere will be completed. It has been a whole in the ground for several months with zero activity. I wonder if the project sponsor is paying for the meters that cannot be used because of the barrier put up?
http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/lofts_on_fifth.jpg

[Derek]

I thought Hotel Indigo started construction?

[HurricaneHugo]

where's L30 Pier at?

[Derek]

Little Italy.

[SDCAL]

^^ Out of all those, I think the most likely to get built will be the Pier building just becasue it's a CityMark project. CityMark seems to follow-through on plans and must have a good cash reserve becasue their projects sell-out quicker than others (Fahrenheit, m2i, Apeture also in little italy, Egyptian in Hillcrest). I think part of their success is that they follow a very middle of the road philosophy - their projects are sizeable, but not tall highrises and their units are not luxurious top of the line, yet they are above the typical condo and offer disctinct loft-like amenities. They seem to have really found a niche in the SD market.

:leek:

As far as the CCDC website, i have quit looking at it because so much of the information is unrealiable. It's just like the crooked politicians, it tries to sugar-coat things and string viewers along by never posting negative information. Most of the projects that have been postponed or cancelled say "scheduled to begin late 2007". on their next "update" they will ikely just update all the dates to "early winter 2008" then "spring 2008" and so forth.


Their project run-down list has really lost credibility in my opinion. There is a project on there called Echelon that still says it was to begin in 2006 and be complete in 2007, but hasn't even broke ground. -

I think CCDC is afraid that if they take all the cancelled projects off their map it will look eerily sparse so they just keep putting phantom dates in.

A real shame because that would be the most logical and easiest way to obtain development information downtown. It would be really nice if it were more reliable :runaway:

[bmfarley]

As far as the CCDC website, i have quit looking at it because so much of the information is unrealiable. It's just like the crooked politicians, it tries to sugar-coat things and string viewers along by never posting negative information. Most of the projects that have been postponed or cancelled say "scheduled to begin late 2007". on their next "update" they will ikely just update all the dates to "early winter 2008" then "spring 2008" and so forth.


Their project run-down list has really lost credibility in my opinion. There is a project on there called Echelon that still says it was to begin in 2006 and be complete in 2007, but hasn't even broke ground.

Many projects have also been completed, yet they remain on the list and on their map.

ICON
Diamond View
The Mark
Alta
Smart Corner
Aloft
Metrowork

[Derek]

Does anybody remember where the bowling alley is being built downtown?

I can't find anything on it.

[bmfarley]

Does anybody remember where the bowling alley is being built downtown?

I can't find anything on it.As I recall, it was/is suppose to be somewhere along/between Market and Island and 7th to 10th.

[Derek]

I remember seeing it was under construction, I just forgot where.

Thanks. :)

[bmfarley]

I remember seeing it was under construction, I just forgot where.

Thanks. :)I don't know of anything under construction in that area now.

[Derek]

This is cool information, I just found it looking around for information on the bowling alley.

Fuddruckers has signed a 10-year, $1.9 million lease for space in the old First National Bank Building at Fifth Avenue and Broadway in Downtown San Diego and is tentatively scheduled to open in a portion of the space in August. (March 5, 2007)


Brandon, you were right about the construction as it has not started yet. The bowling alley is called East Village Tavern and Bowl, and it just obtained a liquor license, but construction is still in planning stages.

[DowntownSDJoe]

http://live6.truelook.com/face/newface.jsp?func=live&name=/ecodb/coronado/camera1&pan=96.78423&tilt=-10.364128&panfov=37.090626&tiltfov=27.817968&overlay=default&skin=CCDC_Sept_2006&useapplet=true&time=1186962447303&width=640&height=480&quality=65&catalogname=catalog&zoom=1.1188811&imagemap.x=264&imagemap.y=158&imagemap.w=116&imagemap.h=99


is it just me or is the hilton hotel thats being built have the ugliest glass i have ever seen,it looks like the building is made of plastic,i thought the renderings of it looked good,hopefully it will turn out like them


sorry i dont have a webcam pic,how do you paste a pic on????

[Derek]

Gaylord, port talks on hotel to restart
Local labor groups hit the picket line

By David Washburn
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

August 8, 2007

Gaylord Entertainment has resumed negotiations with Chula Vista and San Diego Unified Port District officials on a $1 billion resort hotel and convention center on the Chula Vista bayfront, despite its inability to come to terms with local unions.

Port commissioners yesterday, responding to a letter Gaylord sent Thursday, agreed in closed session to continue negotiations with the Tennessee-based company. The port action came after a month-long impasse while Gaylord battled with union leaders.

On July 6, Gaylord abruptly walked away from a deal that had been two years in the making, citing unreasonable demands by the unions. Labor leaders countered by saying Gaylord could not be trusted to hire local workers on the project, and a week ago announced they no longer were negotiating with the company.

Gaylord, citing strong support from the community, has come back to the negotiating table anyway.

“As a result of the overwhelming show of community support for Gaylord's inclusion within the Chula Vista Bayfront Project, Gaylord hereby requests to continue discussions,” Gaylord Senior Vice President Bennett Westbrook wrote in a letter to port President Bruce Hollingsworth.

Westbrook also has had discussions in recent days with Chula Vista Mayor Cheryl Cox, who said she was thrilled by the response from the community.

“I'm pleased that (Gaylord) talked to me on Friday,” Cox said. “They got the message loud and clear from labor that they won't talk to them. I hope they got the other half, which is, 'I will.' ”

Labor demonstrated that it will continue to publicly oppose Gaylord at every opportunity. Yesterday, union members picketed outside the port building, and Electrical Workers Union spokeswoman Jennifer Badgley read a statement to port commissioners before they went into closed session.

“I think their definition of community is different from mine,” Badgley said later. “The only community I've seen around Gaylord is chamber of commerce types and developer front groups.”

The unions want Gaylord to agree to a “project labor agreement,” which is a contract between the developer and unions saying the project will be built by union workers.

These agreements are common in the construction world, but not universal. Gaylord has avoided them in other hotel and convention center projects it has built in Texas and Florida, and one that it is building in Maryland.

Gaylord's last proposal offered a “modified” project labor agreement that would give union contractors first dibs to bid on jobs, and preference to local workers, but not require the company to use only union contractors and local labor.
Local officials have not put a timetable on the renewed talks with Gaylord, but Cox and port commissioner Mike Najera, who represents Chula Vista, said they were “moving along” before being derailed by the labor issues.

“This is a positive step, but we still have a lot of work to do to bring this to fruition,” Najera said.

Central to the negotiations is the completion of the environmental impact report for the Chula Vista Bayfront Master Plan, which has been in the works for years, and agreements on a lease for port-owned land and financing arrangements.

So far, officials have outlined a $308 million public subsidy for the project, probably paid through bonds and revenue generated by the development.

Officials say the project has the potential to increase revenue for Chula Vista by 10 percent; add 3,000 new, permanent jobs; and serve as a springboard for other commercial and residential developments.

[sandiegodweller]

This is cool information, I just found it looking around for information on the bowling alley.

Fuddruckers has signed a 10-year, $1.9 million lease for space in the old First National Bank Building at Fifth Avenue and Broadway in Downtown San Diego and is tentatively scheduled to open in a portion of the space in August. (March 5, 2007)


Brandon, you were right about the construction as it has not started yet. The bowling alley is called East Village Tavern and Bowl, and it just obtained a liquor license, but construction is still in planning stages.


No, the site is next to Lotus Thai on Market between 9th and 10th. The project is well under construction and is expected to open by the end of September with 6 lanes of bowling. They also tied up the corner of 10th and market and will add another 6 bowling lanes sometime in the near future.

[Derek]

Oh! Thank you dweller! I just couldn't find any updated articles on it.

[bmfarley]

No, the site is next to Lotus Thai on Market between 9th and 10th. The project is well under construction and is expected to open by the end of September with 6 lanes of bowling. They also tied up the corner of 10th and market and will add another 6 bowling lanes sometime in the near future.
Come to think of it, I saw that place the other day undergoing some work. It doesn't look like a new structure, however, it looks like a rehab effort. Unless I saw it in its initial phase?

[sandiegodweller]

Come to think of it, I saw that place the other day undergoing some work. It doesn't look like a new structure, however, it looks like a rehab effort. Unless I saw it in its initial phase?


It is not a new structure. They took over the old Centex Homes sales center at 939 Market. They also got the empty space next to it. They are putting a new facade on the exisiting buildings. The project also wraps around to 9th behind Java Jones and Lotus Thai.

[SDDTProspector]

There seems to some great pictures of some Future San Diego developments...

There are in Adobe Flash so I can't post them... but check it out....

http://www.kma-ae.com/#mixed-use-landing-1e8585

Project Pictures.....

RIVERIA
GRIRGO
PACIFICA TOWER
MONACO
707 Lofts
AXIOM
6th / Palm

[SEsdCALconnect]

There seems to some great pictures of some Future San Diego developments...

There are in Adobe Flash so I can't post them... but check it out....

http://www.kma-ae.com/#mixed-use-landing-1e8585

Project Pictures.....

RIVERIA
GRIRGO
PACIFICA TOWER
MONACO
707 Lofts
AXIOM
6th / Palm

here's some of the pics from the KMA site
http://www.kma-ae.com/#mixed-use-landing-1e8585

RIVERIA (40-stories)
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/9776/rivieraqk6.jpg

GRIGIO (42-stories...appears to be formerly MONDRIAN)
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/7289/grigiort6.jpg

PACIFICA TOWER (19-stories)
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2732/pacificatowerll7.jpg

MONACO (40-stories, 500')
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/1246/monacouc0.jpg

707 Lofts (8-stories)
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/3047/707loftspk4.jpg

AXIOM (10-11 (?) stories)
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4364/axiomnc7.jpg

6th / Palm (13-stories)
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/8874/6thpalmfp0.jpg

[eburress]

^^ Not too shabby...and definitely better than some of the turd proposals we've seen.

[spoonman]

It is sooooo hard to get sleek residential towers :dead:


Rest in peace Cosmo Square...rest in peace :(

[Crackertastik]

FECK I HATE 500' Monaco looks so promising, and then BOOOM, height limit... crapola.