SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[alasi]

We use them when we don't feel like walking back to our condo in Marina Park from the Gaslamp. They even let us take our dog for free (small dog, 10 lbs).

[voice of reason]

Hugo,
I never said I could walk it in 13 minutes, I said pedicab.
I said walking it in 30 min. or less, it is only 2 miles.
I forgot to add on the 8 minutes it takes to walk to the Kettner stop. I could walk almost to Broadway in that length of time.

I think a couple of you need a course in Tax and Public Policy at your local juniour college. On the internet I suppose making up statistics and misquoting adversaries is typical. That is one reason the San Diego thread is DOA.

[HurricaneHugo]

It's DOA because there are no new projects to talk about.

And I know you didn't say you can walk it in 12 minutes, but you did say, "I have taken the trolley to Petco and it takes just as long as walking," that's why I said I doubt you can walk it in 12 minutes.

[HurricaneHugo]

Anyways, what do you guys think of the proposed new budget?

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/apr/13/bn13budget-san-diego/

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/apr/13/lz1ed13top224929-city-hall-clash/?zIndex=80942

I think it sucks...but it's needed.

[kpexpress]

No good projects to talk about? Stratta is only three to four floors away from being topped off, 11th and B, and the Federal Building.

[cata77]

No good projects to talk about? Stratta is only three to four floors away from being topped off, 11th and B, and the Federal Building.

stratta only has three to four floors to go, WOW!! :cool:

[IconRPCV]

Don't forget the new law school. This is going to be a great addition to the East Village, as well as for all of downtown.

[cata77]

Don't forget the new law school. This is going to be a great addition to the East Village, as well as for all of downtown.

oh yeah that is going to be cool, have you guys heard all the bones they found in the site??

[Derek]

Bones? Details. :D

[kpexpress]

oh yeah that is going to be cool, have you guys heard all the bones they found in the site??

How could I forget the Law School? My same block! That's is going to be amazingly sweetness. I hope that it brings up the foot traffic along Park Blvd and help drive out the drug dealers along the road.

Bones? you haven't heard of the mammoth skull or the whale bone that halted the construction for a week or so?

[HurricaneHugo]

No good projects to talk about? Stratta is only three to four floors away from being topped off, 11th and B, and the Federal Building.

no NEW projects to talk about, as in proposed projects that we can discuss the design, location, etc

[SDCAL]

You are mixing and missusing terminology. Subsidy is not the same as user taxes. Highways are paid for primarily by users paying fees and taxes based on their quantity of useage. Light rail and bus systems are SUBSIDIZED, that means that funds, not from system users, are what pays for them. Anyone in the industry knows the difference. Actually gas taxes, car taxes etc, produce surpluses that governments raid for other uses.

All recent studies show that the San Diego trolley is used daily by about 2% of the workforce for commuting. The studies also show that the trolley only eases traffic by 1.3%. The difference is accounted for by the fact that a vast number of users of the trolley come from the bus system, which means that those people werent commuting with cars anyway.

The San Diego trolley has a budget of around $45 million and ticket revenues are around $24 million. This does not take into account the capital costs that were incurred at the point of construction. So there is a shortfall of $20+million per year that must be subsidized by non-users.

The only real test of a rail system is 'do people ride it in numbers sufficient to justify the cost'. The data speaks for itself.

I love the Tube in London, the Metro in Paris and have used them often. Millions of people ride them each day, thats more than ride San Diegos in a whole year. If people rode ours, I would support it, people chose not to. The government shouldnt build expensive things that the citizens dont want to use, for whatever reason.

The bus system, even though it too is not self-sufficient is a better use of public transportation funds than a rail system and the numbers bear this out.

As to the question of walking or riding to downtown. The trolley doesnt run every 3 minutes, I believe in the evening it is every 20-30 minutes. So lets say you hit the pickup time in the middle and you wait 13 minutes to get on, you then have to transfer trolleys lines down at the main station, this is usually about 4 minutes and then add in the travel time of 18 minutes. That comes to 35 minutes. I can easily walk to Gas Lamp or even Petco in 29 minutes without pushing it. The pedicab is 13 minutes flat. Try it yourself if arent too lazy.

The reason trolley ridership is low is not because people here will not use mass transit, it's because the light rail system we have hasn't enough lines.

I don't go to SDSU or to the border. I do go from downtown to Hillcrest, North Park, Sorrento Valley and La Jolla.

So do alot of other people who work in the La Jolla/Sorrento Valley area, or who want to go dining/shopping in Hillcrest.

No, you can't "force" people to ride mass transit, but if you actually build the lines in logical places people will ride, yes even in San Diego

if a line was put to Balboa Park - Zoo, I guarantee tourists staying in downtown hotels would use it frequently

[bmfarley]

The reason trolley ridership is low is not because people here will not use mass transit, it's because the light rail system we have hasn't enough lines.

I don't go to SDSU or to the border. I do go from downtown to Hillcrest, North Park, Sorrento Valley and La Jolla.

So do alot of other people who work in the La Jolla/Sorrento Valley area, or who want to go dining/shopping in Hillcrest.

No, you can't "force" people to ride mass transit, but if you actually build the lines in logical places people will ride, yes even in San Diego

if a line was put to Balboa Park - Zoo, I guarantee tourists staying in downtown hotels would use it frequently
Who is saying Trolley ridership is low? Someone saying that is just ignorant of teh facts. Check teh APTA web site for industry statistics and you'll find that the San Diego Trolley is teh 4th or 5th most used light-rail system in the country... trailing Boston, San Francisco and Los Angeles.

Regarding the Trolley budget... those numbers are 5 or 6 years old. Or more.

[kpexpress]

I want old school street cars (electric) to run from Horton Plaza up 5th Ave through Bankers Hill, Hillcrest the head through North Park. That would be so rad. Or what if it basically looped around Balboa Park.... from North Park head south through South Park and GOlden Hill and back to Horton plaza. I think that would boost ridership (if, for some reason ridership is low).

[dl3000]

That would be sweet!!

[kpexpress]

any updates on the new main library? anyone?

[keg92101]

any updates on the new main library? anyone?

I hope that project, as designed, dies. I never liked the design (now it has got to be close to 15 years old), and I'm sure that the means and methods for construction are horribly out-dated. I know everyone talks about "loosing the state grant" but at this point, they need to kill it and start from scratch. Come up with a "reasonable construction budget ($500 / SF not including FF&E is astronomical)" and send out an RFP to Design-Build firms. If they keep with the same contract style, not only will we get an extremely bare bone structure, but the total project cost will probably surpass $225 Million, still without FF&E.

I'm sure if the Federal Courthouse secured funds so easily, San Diego could just as easily piggy back on Obama's money as well!

[Marina_Guy]

I hope that project, as designed, dies. I never liked the design (now it has got to be close to 15 years old), and I'm sure that the means and methods for construction are horribly out-dated. I know everyone talks about "loosing the state grant" but at this point, they need to kill it and start from scratch. Come up with a "reasonable construction budget ($500 / SF not including FF&E is astronomical)" and send out an RFP to Design-Build firms. If they keep with the same contract style, not only will we get an extremely bare bone structure, but the total project cost will probably surpass $225 Million, still without FF&E.

I'm sure if the Federal Courthouse secured funds so easily, San Diego could just as easily piggy back on Obama's money as well!

I can't believe I heard a request to send a library RFP through a design build process. This is a library, a Central Library, it should be an architectural ICON. Design Build firms do not produce this type of architecture. They produce, for example, the second phase of the convention center. Enough said.

I want a new Central Library, but it appears small town San Diego has zero interest in it. At this point I would recommend that the $80 million CCDC is holding for this project be used for a branch library in Downtown. The lack of leadership and vision by our elected officials in making something more of our pot hole filled City is sad.

Doesn't Mayor Daley have a son going to college in San Diego?? If so, please stay here and run for mayor :) (hoping and dreaming, I guess)

[PadreHomer]

Caving on the library and building a downtown "branch" would assure that it never gets built.

As someone who supports a downtown library, the city should punt on the issue for now and regroup when it makes sense. They'll have an opportunity to do something better down the line, but we shouldn't settle for less at this point. Take $5 million of the money and landscape that hideous lot and put the other $75 million away for later.

[kpexpress]

A legitimate dog park would be sweet right there.

[staplesla]

SAN DIEGO – The skyline over downtown San Diego's Harbor Drive is forever changed after crews on Monday swung in the last piece of the span for a $26.8 million public pedestrian bridge.

“The tricky part was they had two and a half hours last night to do that,” said Scott Johnson, senior project manager at the city's downtown redevelopment agency.

Workers shut down the overhead power to the San Diego Trolley line in order to span the final gap, which was over the tracks. The job could only be done between midnight and 3 a.m.

The span is now made up of steel beams and wood. Crews will use those as a base to pour the concrete that will eventually support the bridge, which is expected to be completed in January.

The 500-foot bridge, designed by San Diego architects Safdie Rabines, will be one of the longest self-anchored pedestrian suspension spans in the world. Focused around a stylized 130-foot center pylon, the look will be reminiscent of a sail.

It is being paid for with $11.1 million from the city's redevelopment agency, a $6 million California Transportation Commission grant, $2.8 million from the Federal Highway Administration, $2 million from the state Transportation Improvement Program and $4.9 million from developer John Moores.

The bridge is a byproduct of the Petco Park project, which closed the public walkway across Harbor at Park Boulevard. In order to reopen it, the city had to build an overhead span for pedestrians.

Costs for the bridge, first pegged at $12.8 million in 2005, skyrocketed over the past few years with materials prices. The city sought out the state transportation grant to fill the gap.

[Derek]

Cool! :D

[HurricaneHugo]

pics or it didn't happen

[OneMetropolis]

:previous: Yeah Pic's would be nice.

[keg92101]

I can't believe I heard a request to send a library RFP through a design build process. This is a library, a Central Library, it should be an architectural ICON. Design Build firms do not produce this type of architecture. They produce, for example, the second phase of the convention center. Enough said.

I want a new Central Library, but it appears small town San Diego has zero interest in it. At this point I would recommend that the $80 million CCDC is holding for this project be used for a branch library in Downtown. The lack of leadership and vision by our elected officials in making something more of our pot hole filled City is sad.

Doesn't Mayor Daley have a son going to college in San Diego?? If so, please stay here and run for mayor :) (hoping and dreaming, I guess)

Wrong. Design-Build gives whatever the RFP asks for. If it asks for an Iconic design, then an iconic design is presented. The difference in procurement is that the contractor bears all risk to meat all requirements, where in a Design-bid-build, whatever the architect forgot, or holes in the docs, are risks borne by the owner (in this case, the city/taxpayers)

You'd be surprised how many projects going up now are done through the design-build procurement method. Just recently, Hotel Indigo (which will finish in under 18 months) was a design-build by Hensel-Phelps.

[staplesla]

:previous: Yeah Pic's would be nice.

Click here to view from the CCDC webcams. (http://live6.truelook.com/face/newface.jsp?func=live&name=/ecodb/coronado&overlay=default&skin=CCDC_Sept_2006&useapplet=true&time=1217349151054&width=640&height=480&quality=65&catalogname=catalog&preset=Work____/Harbor+Drive+Pedestrian+Bridge)

[Marina_Guy]

... Hotel Indigo (which will finish in under 18 months) was a design-build by Hensel-Phelps.

And Truly Iconic as well. Wrong.

The architect and the builder have to have a tight relationship to make this work. Name me some important architects of the current day would work for engineering companies... Design build has its place, but not in world class design.

Design / Build is perfect for San Diego... Low quality architecture / cheap price.

[keg92101]

And Truly Iconic as well. Wrong.

The architect and the builder have to have a tight relationship to make this work. Name me some important architects of the current day would work for engineering companies... Design build has its place, but not in world class design.

Design / Build is perfect for San Diego... Low quality architecture / cheap price.

And the design of the "new" library is ICONIC? Right....

[sandiegodweller]

End of April 2009 and still no market in TR Produce Bldg (18 months).

[spoonman]

Is it just me or does anyone think the Harbor Drive pedestrian bridge is a huge waste of money? Seems to me that the Hilton should have subsidized that project since it's mostly for their benefit. Also, that bridge is so expensive that the city could have begun undergrounding the train tracks for a comparable sum...

[Marina_Guy]

End of April 2009 and still no market in TR Produce Bldg (18 months).

End of April 2009 and very little new retail in any new condo tower downtown. To me this is the biggest failure of redevelopment in downtown SD. I travel a bit and always go check out the areas of downtowns/uptowns with new housing. The one thing that sticks out is the retail. Other cities seem to do much better filling this space than San Diego. Any theories? Obviously rents. But maybe the broker community here in SD does not know how to attract the tenants? It is sad to see the Pinnacle dead, Atria Dead, and the Mark DEAD, etc.

What gives?

[staplesla]

Is it just me or does anyone think the Harbor Drive pedestrian bridge is a huge waste of money? Seems to me that the Hilton should have subsidized that project since it's mostly for their benefit. Also, that bridge is so expensive that the city could have begun undergrounding the train tracks for a comparable sum...

The tunneling of the train tracks is included in the budget for the HSR.

[keg92101]

End of April 2009 and very little new retail in any new condo tower downtown. To me this is the biggest failure of redevelopment in downtown SD. I travel a bit and always go check out the areas of downtowns/uptowns with new housing. The one thing that sticks out is the retail. Other cities seem to do much better filling this space than San Diego. Any theories? Obviously rents. But maybe the broker community here in SD does not know how to attract the tenants? It is sad to see the Pinnacle dead, Atria Dead, and the Mark DEAD, etc.

What gives?

It's the rates. Did you know that retail in the Pearl is $20-$40 / SF per anum? The lease rates in downtown are a joke, as you can tell by some of the national chains (Active / SBUX) having already closed their doors.

[kpexpress]

It's the rates. Did you know that retail in the Pearl is $20-$40 / SF per anum? The lease rates in downtown are a joke, as you can tell by some of the national chains (Active / SBUX) having already closed their doors.

This is one of the downsides to full block or half block big developments. I bet these developers marketed the benefits of having "retail" below the condos to prospective buyers and people bought these units thinking that there will be bustling retail below them just an elevator ride away too. Sad. I did notice that they dropped the rates at the base of Icon, it was like overnight that all the units along 11th ave facing the dead library filled up with small offices and live/work loft tenants. That's a step in the right directions IMO.

[Marina_Guy]

It's the rates. Did you know that retail in the Pearl is $20-$40 / SF per anum? The lease rates in downtown are a joke, as you can tell by some of the national chains (Active / SBUX) having already closed their doors.

What I don't understand is how an owner can sit on vacant space for more than 3 years and not 'consider' dropping prices. Obviously this recession is impacting new business growth. BTW Active, I believe, went bankrupt. SBUX we all know about their downsizing nationwide. I had heard that the Pinnacle owners were not happy with the broker's they used. Given the past experience maybe new development should be incentivized to fill these spaces so we don't have the same situation we have now.

[Viva-city]

What I don't understand is how an owner can sit on vacant space for more than 3 years and not 'consider' dropping prices. Obviously this recession is impacting new business growth. BTW Active, I believe, went bankrupt. SBUX we all know about their downsizing nationwide. I had heard that the Pinnacle owners were not happy with the broker's they used. Given the past experience maybe new development should be incentivized to fill these spaces so we don't have the same situation we have now.

The owners of ground-floor retail gain more from the write-off of the unleased space than by lowering the rents. Call me.

[keg92101]

The owners of ground-floor retail gain more from the write-off of the unleased space than by lowering the rents. Call me.

Just a thought, but aren't projects required to provide "ground floor retail" not ground floor empty space? I'm sure the city could start getting nasty about the spaces not being filled and the project applicant not in compliance with the community plan.

[PadreHomer]

They did just open Ace Hardware on 6th I believe

[kpexpress]

^^^^ The Ace on 6th Ave is very nice. A great new addition to downtown. I like the combo of Oliver/McMillan and Public Architects, they produce some nice shit. I hear they are planning a big development on Park and G. Max's Deli's lease is up in the next two years and OM I'm sure will buy it up since they already own the lot next to it on the corner. East Villagites should expect some funky shit going up on that corner.

[kpexpress]

:notacrook: CONSTRUCTION UPDATE PICTURES :notacrook:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05080.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05081.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05083.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05084.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05085.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05090.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05091.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05093.jpghttp://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05094.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05100.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05102.jpg

[sdFan09]

Any chance you could post some information about those buildings under construction. Name/location/etc.

[SDDTProspector]

I stumbled across an interesting web by the architect “public digital”, http://www.publicdigital.com/ . They seem to be doing a lot of work for Oliver/McMillan. They have designed the last 2 in downtown SD and have a huge project in Houston. Anyways, I can across a design charter for a mega-block of east village. It was done to visualize urban mixed use project, integrating existing building and landscape into new high-rise construction. Personally, I think it is a wonder concept that other developers should embrace many of these concepts. What you all think?

http://www.publicdigital.com/projects/EastVillage/ev02.jpg

http://www.publicdigital.com/projects/EastVillage/ev06.jpg

http://www.publicdigital.com/projects/EastVillage/ev07.jpg

http://www.publicdigital.com/projects/EastVillage/ev10.jpg

http://www.publicdigital.com/projects/EastVillage/ev13.jpg

http://www.publicdigital.com/projects/EastVillage/ev13.jpg

http://www.publicdigital.com/projects/EastVillage/ev14.jpg

[Viva-city]

They did just open Ace Hardware on 6th I believe

DT Ace has been open for approximately one month. Their opening is this weekend beginning Friday, May 1. Check out http://www.viva-city.info/cityEvents.htm for a list of activities.

[Viva-city]

Any chance you could post some information about those buildings under construction. Name/location/etc.

kpexpress great photos.

photo 1: Ten Fifty B
23-story (236’), 229 affordable apartment, 13,450 square feet of ground floor retail, 3-1/2 level underground garage has 132 parking spaces. North side of B St between 11th & 10th. Anticipated completion: June 2010. East Village - Upper West Quadrant Neighborhood.

photo 2 & 3: Strada
23-story (270’), 163 apartments, 13,596 square feet of retail, 255 parking spaces in a 4-level underground garage. South side of Market between 9th & 10th. Anticipated completion: December 2009. East Village Ballpark Village Neighborhood.

photo 4 & 5: Marriott Residence Inn
12-story extended stay hotel, 237-rooms, 8,000 square feet of retail, 148 valet parking spaces in a 3-level underground parking garage. Southwest corner of 6th & J St with portion of the building on 5th (an L shape configuration). Anticipated completion: Now November 2009. Gaslamp Neighborhood.

photo 6 & 7: Harbor Drive Pedestrian Bridge
Stylized, suspension pedestrian bridge connecting Park Blvd to Harbor Dr and reopening the intersection. The bridge has a 500’ curved span, 25’ above Harbor Drive, with enhanced lighting above and below bridge deck. Anticipated completion: Fall 2009. East Village Ballpark Neighborhood.

photo 8 & 9: Studio 15
5-story (56’), 275 affordable residential units. Located on the southwest corner of 15th and Imperial. East Village – Lower East Side Quadrant.

photo 10: 16th & Market
12-story, 136 affordable apartments, 4,700sf of retail, 114 parking spaces. Northwest corner of 16th & Market. East Village – Lower East Side.

photo 11: San Diego City College Career Technology Center
5-story, 88,900 square foot educational complex and 700 space parking garage. Block bounded by Broadway, 16th, C St, and freeway sans the southeast corner. Anticipated completion: October 2010. East Village Neighborhood – Upper East Quadrant Neighborhood.


Information obtained from:
http://www.viva-city.info/cityNews_welcome.htm
http://www.viva-city.info/cityNews_construction.htm

[staplesla]

SAN DIEGO – A San Diego County Superior Court judge has ruled against a citizens coalition suing to halt the Navy Broadway redevelopment project on environmental grounds.

The decision, handed down Monday, means that the Navy and developer Doug Manchester now only face a federal legal challenge and an appeal from the state's coastal agency before the 16-acre project to build hotels, offices and shops along San Diego's downtown waterfront can get under way.

Manchester spokesman Perry Dealy called it a “very positive decision that reinforces the project.”

Navy Broadway Complex Coalition member Ian Trowbridge said the judge is wrong on the law and there will be an appeal.

The group won a partial victory last summer in the federal case, when a judge ruled that the Navy didn't properly notify the public about the environmental review process. Since then, the Navy has reopened the public record.

Dealy said the project won't move ahead until all legal challenges are resolved. Manchester won another case against the California Coastal Commission over a development permit, but the state has appealed.

Calling the delays “frustrating and difficult,” Dealy also said the timing hasn't been right for development. “The market conditions aren't correct anyway. We are hopeful that by the time the legal issues are resolved we'll have financial recovery in the real estate market,” he said.

Manchester has a 99-year deal with the Navy to develop the land, as long as he rebuilds the Navy's aging offices on site.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/apr/29/bn29navy-broadway-project/?metro&zIndex=90902

[kpexpress]

By the way I noticed that there was a big dumpster set up on the corner of 13th and F street hopefully for the East Village Green!!!! Public also did some diagrams for the park. Pretty funky stuff! I hope they do leave the brick walls of the red brick building along 13th street as indicated in PUblic's diagrams.

[migol24]

I think although Dallas is just smaller than SD we could really learn a lot from it in regards to how to grow, but my grip about Dallas (besides the brutal heat) is that the downtown housing is scarce, but there's hope, a lot of activity happening on the West End. I love that uptown area and would definitely live there.actually san diego is just roughly estimated to be about 400-500 in population larger than dallas. dallas metropolitan area is estimated to be at 6 million... san diego's metro is at 3 million. the only thing that makes san diego seem larger is that there is more density and more people per sq mile. i've never been to san diego but dfw metro is pretty darn big... i lived there for 4 years and still i would get lost if i make my way there. but in all sincerity i don't like it there... and from what i've heard i'd rather live in san diego, even though i've never been there. :)

[eburress]

^^ Yayyyy - more Dallas conversation! :)

[kpexpress]

Stop this DALLASness NOW!!! Yes, Dallas is much bigger than SD if you're talking "metro", but actual city pop and size, SD takes the cake.

[migol24]

Stop this DALLASness NOW!!! Yes, Dallas is much bigger than SD if you're talking "metro", but actual city pop and size, SD takes the cake.
sorry didn't mean to stir a frenzy. I was simply replying to your comment. I didnt even know what was being discussed other than companies moving to Dallas. But yeah Dallas is smaller

[tdavis]

Stop this DALLASness NOW!!! Yes, Dallas is much bigger than SD if you're talking "metro", but actual city pop and size, SD takes the cake.

SD takes the cake? Really? SD has 359 more people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population) and is losing in population, while Dallas is one of the fastest growing areas in the world. And the DFW metro area is twice as large in population and size. Gets the facts straight.

[kpexpress]

SD takes the cake? Really? SD has 359 more people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population) and is losing in population, while Dallas is one of the fastest growing areas in the world. And the DFW metro area is twice as large in population and size. Gets the facts straight.

No SHIT. Isn't that what I've been saying this whole time?!! I said that when compared to each other Dallas blows SD out of the water in so many categories and is smaller in size (city). Why can't anyone follow the conversations?! Enough about Dallas already.....Yeah WE ALL KNOW!

[kpexpress]

Some shots from tonight:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05153.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05173.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05174.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05175.jpg

[Jobohimself]

SD takes the cake? Really? SD has 359 more people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population) and is losing in population, while Dallas is one of the fastest growing areas in the world. And the DFW metro area is twice as large in population and size. Gets the facts straight.

Oh? Where did you get the statistic that our population is declining? Or is that something you made up on the spot? I smell bullshit.

[kpexpress]

I wouldn't say SD's population is declining, but it might seem that way compared to what is happening in Dallas.

[migol24]

why do people take offense in city population? it's just population... if it were me i'd rather live in san diego. considering all the good things about it.

[keg92101]

Dallas Talk = Thread Killer

[voice of reason]

Some shots from tonight:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05153.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05173.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05174.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05175.jpg

The picture of the parking meter and the tree trunk are almost as interesting as the bright headlight. Is this some new photography medium?

[bmfarley]

The California Department of Finance is the best source of demographic data for the state in years between federal census counts. Much greater effort and detail goes into their work than the Feds do on their end. Further, the State effort is ongoing whereas the Federal is ad hoc.

That said, California's rate of population growth has been slowing; however remains consistent in whole number growth. Over the past 30 years, the state has grown anywhere from 300,000 to 700,000 in a single year. That holds true today... with 408,695 added to the state's population.

San Diego County saw growth too... growing from 3,131,552 to 3,173,407 and had the 2nd greatest population gain in terms of whole number growth; 41,855. Fwiw, LA County had 91,527.... tho is right at 10.4 million.

Half of the growth occurred in the City of San Diego. The city grew from 1,333,617 to 1,353,993... a gain of 20,376.

The state's total population as of January 1st was 38.3 million... and will likely surpass 40 million by 2013 or so. 60 million are expected by 2050.

[PadreHomer]

The California Department of Finance is the best source of demographic data for the state in years between federal census counts. Much greater effort and detail goes into their work than the Feds do on their end. Further, the State effort is ongoing whereas the Federal is ad hoc.

That said, California's rate of population growth has been slowing; however remains consistent in whole number growth. Over the past 30 years, the state has grown anywhere from 300,000 to 700,000 in a single year. That holds true today... with 408,695 added to the state's population.

San Diego County saw growth too... growing from 3,131,552 to 3,173,407 and had the 2nd greatest population gain in terms of whole number growth; 41,855. Fwiw, LA County had 91,527.... tho is right at 10.4 million.

Half of the growth occurred in the City of San Diego. The city grew from 1,333,617 to 1,353,993... a gain of 20,376.

The state's total population as of January 1st was 38.3 million... and will likely surpass 40 million by 2013 or so. 60 million are expected by 2050.
How many births did San Diego have over the same period?

[Derek]

There was a lot of construction going on around the site of the library yesterday. Does anybody have information on that?

[kpexpress]

There was a lot of construction going on around the site of the library yesterday. Does anybody have information on that?

Thomas Jefferson School of Law tower started pouring their concrete yesterday.

[Derek]

Thank you. :)


That would explain it. I didn't know it was over there. Sweet though.

[keg92101]

Here's a shot of it:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_tQUI0eWovgc/Sf9ebQFpAWI/AAAAAAAAAec/80ZDmL69HwA/s512/DSCN3312.JPG

[staplesla]

The developer of downtown San Diego's largest condominium project is facing the possibility of losing dozens of its buyers if it doesn't meet a deadline to complete the nearly 700-unit high-rise by this weekend.

Finishing the mammoth project on time, though, is just one of the developer's worries in a slumping housing market that has significantly slowed sales of new condos downtown.

Pointe of View Developments has contracts with nearly 300 buyers at Vantage Pointe, but purchasers say they have been unable to get loans because of new lending guidelines that require condo developers to secure a high percentage of pre-sales.

Other downtown developers are struggling to boost languishing sales, but their projects are dwarfed by Vantage Pointe, in East Village bordering San Diego City College.

“I think Vantage Pointe is the poster child for everything that's gone wrong in the condo market,” San Diego real estate analyst Gary London said. “It was too big, the timing was completely off, and it's a B, bordering on C, location. No matter what happens with (lending guidelines), the reality is they're not going to sell enough units to make it anything other than a problematic project.”

Other condo developments that have a number of unsold units are grappling with stiffer lending requirements. Some have opted to rent units to bring in income, while others are lowering sale prices to ensure they will be in sync with present-day appraisals.

For Pointe of View, the most immediate challenge is the more than 70 buyers who have the option to back out of their purchase agreements and get their 5 percent deposits refunded if the developer cannot secure an occupancy permit by Saturday.

Under the sale agreements, the developer is obligated to have the units ready within 42 months of the signing a purchase contract. That is unlikely to occur for the first set of buyers.

“People are scared to death of closing; they're upset with the developer and feel like this should have been completed a long, long time ago,” said Brad Willis, a financial adviser who in November 2005 agreed to buy a one-bedroom condo on the 31st floor for $341,000. He has since organized an online message board for prospective buyers to air concerns about the project.

“Some of us are less than a week away from closing, and we don't know if this an apartment building, whether they will they get their occupancy permits and whether people will qualify, which is pretty ridiculous after a five-year period.”

A number of factors contributed to the construction delays, including an 11-month effort to remove contaminated soil at the site, smoke from the 2007 wildfires that shut down work for several days and occasional problems with cranes, said Al Thompson, vice president of construction for Pointe of View.

“In this industry, if you're two weeks late, you're doing very well,” he said. “My biggest frustration is with some purchasers who are trying to do whatever they can to make us fail.”

Developers such as Pointe of View are coping with a new requirement imposed by mortgage giant Fannie Mae that 70 percent of the units in condo projects be pre-sold before the government-controlled entity will purchase loans issued by private lenders. Up until March 1, the requirement was that 51 percent of a condo project's units be under contract.

A spokeswoman for Fannie Mae yesterday confirmed that it has granted an exception to its rule for Vantage Pointe and will allow the developer to meet the 70 percent pre-sale requirement for each of the project's three connected towers rather than for the entire building.

“Fannie Mae's pre-sale guidelines are aimed at protecting prospective condo buyers from investing in projects that have a higher risk of failure. We make exceptions to this requirement if we determine that a project still has a strong chance of success even if the pre-sale level falls below the prescribed 70 percent threshold,” Fannie Mae spokeswoman Amy Bonitatibus said.

How the exception will help Pointe of View close sales through its preferred lender, Wells Fargo, is uncertain because the current buyers are spread throughout the high-rise. It is unknown whether there are enough buyers in any one tower to meet the 70 percent threshold.

“It will help by cutting the project into different parts, so we'll relaunch (sales efforts for) the project this month, and we'll move ahead and hope to see some signs of recovery in the San Diego market,” said Brian Stoddard, president and chief operating officer of Pointe of View, which recently decided to rent out some of its unsold condos.

“This is not a project issue, it's a market issue. We'll ride out the market, and there will be a better day.”

Other major builders downtown say they are appealing to Fannie Mae to relax its lending rules. Meanwhile, they are discounting prices for buyers who entered into contracts at the height of the housing boom.

Last month, Bosa Development agreed to lower prices by an average of 15 percent to 20 percent for 82 buyers who entered into contracts two years ago in its 232-unit Bayside high-rise. The decision was driven by the rapid decline in housing values that made it difficult for the luxury condos to be appraised at the original purchase prices, Bosa President Nat Bosa said.

“I think we made a difficult situation somewhat easier,” said Bosa, who is hoping to persuade Fannie Mae to also grant his project an exemption from the 70 percent pre-sale rule. “We had a lot of questions from the purchasers, and we got several opinions to make sure we did the right thing, and then made the decision to do what we did, and hopefully it's the right decision.”

Early buyers at the 148-unit Breeza project in Little Italy also have received price reductions in keeping with today's lower market values, said Mike Chious, general sales manager for Intergulf Development.

Vantage Pointe faces the biggest challenges downtown because of the size of the project and the misfortune of opening during a depressed market.

Stoddard of Pointe of View insisted that units sold in 2005 are still being appraised for what buyers agreed to pay for them and should not require price adjustments.

Bryan Hall, who has done a walk-through for the two-bedroom unit on the 29th floor he purchased in 2005 for $460,000, said he will be disappointed if the sale cannot go through. He is renting in Mission Valley and awaiting word from the developer.

“It was going to be my dream home, a place where I've wanted to live for a very long time,” said Hall, a real estate broker. “I put so much mental energy and hope into living here, and now it seems impossible because I haven't been able to get a loan.”


http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/may/06/1n6condos002331-high-rise-headache/

[kpexpress]

^^^"He has since organized an online message board for prospective buyers to air concerns about the project."

Does anyone know about this online message board? I want to read some of the comments.

[staplesla]

^^^"He has since organized an online message board for prospective buyers to air concerns about the project."

Does anyone know about this online message board? I want to read some of the comments.

Here's a link to the message board:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vantagepointe/

[staplesla]

BTW, you have to sign up for the Vantage Point Forum to view the messages. Here is one I copied that I thought was interesting.

-------------------------------
05/05/2009 6:25 PM

Certificate of Occupancy- Not yet granted, no word from the builder when they
will get it. (city has no application date on record)
Fannie Mae Approval- This is a no, unless they are able to split building into
phases to bypass the rules that protect the consumer from buying in building
likely to fail in the first 2 years.
Inspections- Only owner may attend. Every other builder allows the owner to
bring 1 guest, usually a home inspector to help with walk-thru. Buyers are also
not able to see the parking garage, pool, workout, storage, even where the
garbage shute it (if they even built one) Some buyers had to take rickety
construction elevator to their floor since no elevator was in service.

Sign a liability waiver- Buyers must sign a waiver to inspect their units due to
the fact building is no where near completion. No other builder that I know of
does this. They are even asking people to sign off on completed units with no
electricity, water, windows, or flooring. They agree to "try" to complete unit
within 30 days of closing. What a joke. When asked if they will agree to no
funds being released by escrow until completion of unit, they say no.

Phone Calls/Office- They have turned off the phones in the office to fax lines
only. No way to call and speak with anyone. The Canadian office does not take
calls either.

Appraisals- Not allowed! Even if an owner is paying cash he still would want to
get an appraisal for title and insurance purposes. Also to insure the unit was
built to correct size/dimensions.

This list goes on and on and on and
on.....................................................

Vantage Point should just finish the entire building and turn it into rentals or
rent-to-own. Give the buyers back their deposits and be done with this mess.

[spoonman]

Some pics for anyone that hasn't seen this building. It's 40 Floors with 700 units...
http://www.buyorsellsandiego.com/images/image115.jpg
Courtesy of San Diego Urban
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/model.jpg

[kpexpress]

I think turning the building into rent-to-own's or pure rentals wouldn't be that bad for that neighborhood. Actually get some people there would be best! IMO. I know everyone here will object to that statement, but I said it.

[kpexpress]

Went to the Padres game tonight, and snuck up to the top bleachers for some shots of the Harbor Drive Pedestrian Bridge. Enjoy.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05392.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05395.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05396.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05397.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05398.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05399.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05405.jpg

[mello]

Hey K, I haven't been in SD for over a year now. Did you take any skyline pics from the upper decks. I'd like to see how Vantage Pointe has changed the skyline view from Petco. Lets see what else has finished in that time... Not much, but some skyline pics in that nice evening twilight would really be appreciated. Thanks. :cheers:

[tdavis]

I think turning the building into rent-to-own's or pure rentals wouldn't be that bad for that neighborhood. Actually get some people there would be best! IMO. I know everyone here will object to that statement, but I said it.

There is no way in hell I'd ever buy or rent at Vantage Point. It's clear they are now rushing things from the letter above and from things I've heard from my friends who've looked there. This just leads to shoddy construction.

[kpexpress]

Hey K, I haven't been in SD for over a year now. Did you take any skyline pics from the upper decks. I'd like to see how Vantage Pointe has changed the skyline view from Petco. Lets see what else has finished in that time... Not much, but some skyline pics in that nice evening twilight would really be appreciated. Thanks. :cheers:

Didn't take a lot of the skyline, but here's what I shot:

VP adds some verticality to 9th ave:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05339.jpg

Stratta, Vantage Pointe, and 11th and B does wonders (and will do) to 10th:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05365.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05376.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05382.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05409.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05454.jpg

[dl3000]

Awesome photos. I can't wait to be back home myself.

[mello]

Damn, thanks K Ex. 9th and 10th are looking pretty good. The skyline is steppin up now. I think a discussion of where SD's skyline ranks in North America could be pretty interesting.

What is a shame is that much smaller metros in Canada and Oz kill us ie. Brisbane, and Calgary. But what can you do. Brizzy has really stepped up in the last 4 years and blown our doors off. But San Diego has a variety of angles and looks that give us good scores overall. I also think our spacing is pretty good as well.

[kpexpress]

Is anyone on Facebook?

[Viva-city]

Is anyone on Facebook?

Yes. Email me at sandra@viva-city.info and I'll send you an invitation.

[eburress]

Damn, thanks K Ex. 9th and 10th are looking pretty good. The skyline is steppin up now. I think a discussion of where SD's skyline ranks in North America could be pretty interesting.

What is a shame is that much smaller metros in Canada and Oz kill us ie. Brisbane, and Calgary. But what can you do. Brizzy has really stepped up in the last 4 years and blown our doors off. But San Diego has a variety of angles and looks that give us good scores overall. I also think our spacing is pretty good as well.

I think that may the direction such a discussion would go. Although it's almost entirely subjective, based on your post, if we were to assume there are smaller metros with better skylines, it would seem to imply that there are also comparably sized metros with better skylines, as well as larger metros with better skylines. So, that would seem to leave San Diego following a large number of smaller, similarly-sized, and larger metros.

[staplesla]

Nearly 300 buyers in downtown San Diego's largest high-rise condominium were notified by the developer Thursday that their deposits will be returned, and they will be offered incentives to later repurchase units in the 679-unit complex.

The move by Canadian developer Pointe of View comes on the eve of a construction deadline to have the Vantage Pointe development ready for occupancy for the first 72 buyers, who entered into sales contracts nearly four years ago.

Buyers so far have been unable to secure loans for their condos because of stiff lending rules requiring that 70 percent of the units in a development be presold. Some purchasers said they planned on demanding the return of their deposits if the East Village project was not completed on time.

Faced with hundreds of units to sell and too few committed buyers, the developer had little choice but to substantially revamp the marketing of its condos.

In an effort to ensure it can close escrows in the mammoth building, Pointe of View is working with the California Department of Real Estate to divide the project into five phases. That way, each phase can more easily secure the proportion of presales it needs before loans can be made, said Brian Stoddard, president and chief operating officer of Pointe of View.

The Department of Real Estate has given Pointe of View preliminary approval to move ahead with the phasing plan, he said.

“We hope to have everything done this month, and then we will re-launch and re-market the project this month to get people in a position so they can close in June and July,” Stoddard said. “The people who want to close in the building and who still want to live here will come back to the building.”

One of the biggest hurdles facing Pointe of View was a new requirement imposed by mortgage giant Fannie Mae that 70 percent of the units in condo projects be presold before the government-controlled entity will purchase loans issued by private lenders. Until March 1, the requirement was that 51 percent of a condo project's units be under contract.

In a move to bring in revenue more immediately, Stoddard said Pointe of View will rent out units in the building's middle tower, which consists of 250 condos. He does not know yet how many of those units will be rented.

Buyer Brad Willis, who launched an online message board for Vantage Pointe purchasers, said he will wait to hear what the developer proposes before making a decision on whether to buy a unit in the building.

“There's a part of me that wants to live downtown in a place with a nice view, but there's another part of me that's nervous about the way the developers have handled the situation in the past,” said Willis, who purchased a one-bedroom condo on the 31st floor for $341,000.

“Now we start from scratch, and we see what they put on the table and see how they handle the situation.”

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/may/07/bn07condo204436/?success&dsq=9131954#comment-9131954

[spoonman]

Has anyone experienced the "Managed Lanes" on the 15? Not the original carpool lanes they had down the center, but the four lane freeway in the median with it's own direct exits?

I saw a picture and thought it is worth a post. I used to live off the 15 and sit in hell traffic. I don't live there anymore, but it seems to have helped improved traffic, and the project hasn't even concluded yet...

You can read about it here...
http://www.keepsandiegomoving.com/CW_Images/I-15ExpressLanes9_12_08.pdf

http://www.flatironcorp.com/assets/ProjectImages/ProjectSlideShow/Highways-I-15Managed(2).jpg

http://images.townnews.com/nctimes.com/content/articles/2007/01/04/news/top_stories/1_02_181_3_07.jpg

[sdFan09]

I live in Poway and I have used the new section of the managed lanes several times. They are nice and work well for the section. The only problem is that when they end the traffic clogs worse than before. That means traveling north of Escondido around rush hour is painful. I can't wait until it goes all the way to the 78. Even then, at rush hour the 15 (and the 5) are slow and clogged. When will the region learn that more freeway lanes don't solve anything.

[sdFan09]

On a side note, the new "transit stations" that are supposed to be a type of BRT look pretty empty every time I drive past them. I don't even know where the buses go. It would be nice if it was an express route to Grantville or Qualcomm. I go to SDSU and I would love to take an express bus from the new transit station to Grantville then catch the trolley to State but I don't think it's capable of that. Anyone have any knowledge of the BRT capabilities in the new lanes?

[spoonman]

On a side note, the new "transit stations" that are supposed to be a type of BRT look pretty empty every time I drive past them. I don't even know where the buses go. It would be nice if it was an express route to Grantville or Qualcomm. I go to SDSU and I would love to take an express bus from the new transit station to Grantville then catch the trolley to State but I don't think it's capable of that. Anyone have any knowledge of the BRT capabilities in the new lanes?

I believe that some of the transit stations haven't opened yet.

[yerfdog]

lol, just noticed you caught someone in that parking structure taking a picture in your direction, probably of the same bridge you were photographing



http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05395.jpg

[staplesla]

I believe that some of the transit stations haven't opened yet.

Many of them are still under construction.

[HurricaneHugo]

Many of them are still under construction.

There still going to be just as empty...

[kpexpress]

Are you sitting down? Sorry for the horrible quality of the shot taken from my iPhone.

The Goodyear building has been demolished!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/IMG_0598.jpg

[cata77]

^ that's good news!

[spoonman]

.

[spoonman]

Are you sitting down? Sorry for the horrible quality of the shot taken from my iPhone.

The Goodyear building has been demolished!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In favor of what?

[Derek]

What's going there? Another parking lot?

[kpexpress]

What's going there? Another parking lot?

Not sure what's going there, but I would rather see a parking lot than a burned out decaying tire warehouse. Thought I would never say that.

[kpexpress]

Noticed that they started demoing the block near my school.

HERE:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/Picture8.jpg


THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE TONIGHT:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/photo-1.jpg

[Jobohimself]

Has anyone experienced the "Managed Lanes" on the 15? Not the original carpool lanes they had down the center, but the four lane freeway in the median with it's own direct exits?

I saw a picture and thought it is worth a post. I used to live off the 15 and sit in hell traffic. I don't live there anymore, but it seems to have helped improved traffic, and the project hasn't even concluded yet...

Yeah, they're pretty handy, IMO...I zoom by in my hybrid 4 days a week commuting home.

Although I would have preferred rapid transit down the middle, but I guess the three years I lived in San Francisco spoiled me.

[kpexpress]

Does anyone else get depressed when two or three days go by with no activity on this thread?

[cata77]

Does anyone else get depressed when two or three days go by with no activity on this thread?

yeah

[kpexpress]

So who do you think is the best developer downtown (housing)? I'm interested in talking about these developers and what they have done, and plan on doing.

From what I've seen, I like the projects that Oliver/McMillan does.

Your thoughts?

[spoonman]

What has Oliver McMillan done?

[staplesla]

San Diego is one step closer to a new City Hall, after the city's downtown redevelopment agency on Wednesday endorsed the idea of sitting down at the negotiating table with a developer.

“All we are really saying is this is worth pursuing,” said Centre City Development Corp. Chairman Fred Maas.

His board voted unanimously in favor of moving forward with a plan to demolish San Diego's 1964 City Hall and Civic Center complex and replace it with a sail-shaped skyscraper billed as one of the “greenest” buildings on the West Coast.

The most recent financial analysis shows that payments on the new construction would cost $179 million to $231 million over the first 10 years. Maintaining the current City Hall and continuing to pay leases on additional needed offices would cost $216 million.

Over 15 years, the potential savings from a new City Hall are more certain. San Diego's payments on the construction would total $338 million to $399 million, compared to $416 million for keeping current accommodations.

But the city isn't being asked to sign a sales slip yet. The next step would be agreeing to negotiate deal points with Portland-based Gerding Edlen, the developer up for the job.

CCDC's vote Wednesday is not binding. The City Council will have final say over whether to start negotiations or walk away from a nearly two-year process. The issue goes to the council's rules committee June 10.

A point of contention in recent days has been whether the city will agree to pay the developer's costs if the deal falls apart.

CCDC Vice President Jeff Graham said yesterday, “From CCDC's perspective, that was a non-starter.”

Gerding Edlen estimates it has spent between $2 million and $3 million on its proposal so far.

Gerding spokesman Tom Cody said that he only proposed that the city pay his firm's costs during the negotiation period, which could go from six months to a year. He said he couldn't imagine those costs would be more than $1 million. CCDC has already spent nearly $1.7 million on consultants and other fees over the past year or more of studying the concept.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/may/20/bn20civic132053/?metro&zIndex=102626