SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[bmfarley]

How long have the Chargers been talking about stadium issues? Correct me, but I think we are talking about 10 or more years.

In my opinion, something conclusive should have occurred much sooner than now. And, the Chargers have already expended a lot of patients.

[spoonman]

How long have the Chargers been talking about stadium issues? Correct me, but I think we are talking about 10 or more years.

In my opinion, something conclusive should have occurred much sooner than now. And, the Chargers have already expended a lot of patients.

Whoa! BM Farley... a longtime former... haven't heard from you here in ages. :cheers:

[dales5050]

I agree with this. I believe Todd Gloria, city councilman, was advocating making the threshold for these ballot initiatives higher but not sure if it's going anywhere. As it is, any major decision the city makes gets overturned by special interests who can afford to pay liars to collect signatures. Whether it's Barrio Logan, 1 Paseo, even the minimum wage increase, it seems like any time the city makes a major decision it gets derailed. If the city were to proceed with a new stadium without a vote, I can guarantee you a group would soon be out getting signatures to force it on the ballot.

I think both both sides of this have faults.

Having lived in NYS, where government is run by 3 guys in a back room (who are paid for by either corporations or unions), the idea that a group of people can bypass that and get something on a ballot is pretty darn welcoming.

[travis bickle]

below is information from the San Diego Eater regarding the proposed grocer in the 7th and Market Development:

From: http://sandiego.eater.com


The tipline is buzzing about a potential new Whole Foods Market that might land in the East Village as part of a mixed-use project that has been proposed for the downtown block at Seventh and Market Street bordered by Eighth and Island Avenues.

Jason Wood, a principal at Cisterra Development, told Eater that Whole Foods Market is indeed attached to their proposal for the site, which would also include a Ritz Carlton and two restaurants linked to the hotel, plus new apartments and office space. It's not yet clear if the grocer would be opening a traditional Whole Foods in the space or one of its new, lower-priced 365 by Whole Foods outlets. Whole Foods Market could not confirm the expansion, but said it will be announcing new store sites during a quarterly earnings call scheduled for July.

Had dinner with the lead engineer on this last night. He confirmed its a Whole Foods.

[spoonman]

Does anyone know if Cisterra was selected to develop 7th and Market, or are they still in contention to win the development project?

[Bertrice]

Does anyone know if Cisterra was selected to develop 7th and Market, or are they still in contention to win the development project?
found this
http://www.sandiegoh.com/2015/06/17/ritzcarlton/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sandiegoh%2Foh+%28San+DiegOh%29

[Bertrice]

This gondola is actually being looked at

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH0HvJNUcAEPZyi.jpg

http://www.sandag.org/index.asp?meetingid=4009&fuseaction=meetings.detail

[bmfarley]

Whoa! BM Farley... a longtime former... haven't heard from you here in ages. :cheers:

Wow, someone noticed! Yes, life took my time to other matters. In a good way. But, always have enjoyed visiting this board.

[SDCAL]

Had dinner with the lead engineer on this last night. He confirmed its a Whole Foods.

Nice :). Did they by any chance say anything about a timeline? I know it's probably quite a ways off but curious if there are any tentative dates.

[SDCAL]

Does anyone know if Cisterra was selected to develop 7th and Market, or are they still in contention to win the development project?

I assume they did because the other two developers who were part of the bidding don't have anything on their web sites. But Civic SD and they city are being really quiet about this, and I'm not sure why. I would have thought one or the other would have made an announcement about the winner so I'm kind of perplexed.

[Streamliner]

Not development related, but I saw this picture on the Union-Tribune website and thought it was worth sharing. A cool view showing the weathervane of the California Tower looking toward downtown:

http://media.utsandiego.com/img/photos/2015/06/02/UTI1855522_r620x413.jpg?67d6da46cf1438ad26b8015f732435a7128f8cdd

Source page (http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jun/19/top-weekend-events-june19/#&panel1-5) Photo by Eduardo Contreras

[bobbyv]

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/22/6d/226d1d93d6e2dc9a71add8a49dd2b7d1.jpg?itok=Z7vvbBzw
What's your thoughts on the new logo Mello?

[Bertrice]

Re-Brand

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/ItemImages/000152/152618a_lg.jpeg

[bobbyv]

Re-Brand

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/ItemImages/000152/152618a_lg.jpeg

LOL, pretty cool, had never seen that before.

[Nerv]

I was kind of thinking they try something like the California Chargers or even Southern California Chargers. There's little doubt to me that the Rams and Raiders will use the "Los Angeles" title.


If the Spanos family does keep this team and doesn't sell it after the Los Angeles move I can see them trying to one up the other team (s) by expanding their fanbase since both the Rams and Raiders will be the cities favorites over the Chargers.

[dtell04]

http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2015/06/19/nfl-race-to-l-a-between-chargers-raiders-rams-becoming-clearer/

Here's an outside SD point of view for the LA stadium races. I have been trying to read more into the Oakland and St. Louis stadium battles. Oakland might have a real shot at a new stadium up there and St. Louis seems to be fizzling out.

[embora]

http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2015/06/19/nfl-race-to-l-a-between-chargers-raiders-rams-becoming-clearer/

Here's an outside SD point of view for the LA stadium races. I have been trying to read more into the Oakland and St. Louis stadium battles. Oakland might have a real shot at a new stadium up there and St. Louis seems to be fizzling out.

Very interesting article. Thank you DTELL04.

So with that article suggesting the Rams are going to L.A., and that the Raiders are the next most likely to move if they don't get funding by Monday, that would suggest that the Chargers stay in San Diego in 2016. But with the article in the Voice of San Diego suggesting 66% of San Diegans are against spending public money on a stadium, VoSD suggested that the Chargers could look at St. Louis or San Antonio, later on. Like the sands through the hourglass, so are the days of the San Diego Chargers. :grumpycat:

[mello]

Sorry you guys are naive to think Chargers are going to LA and the above article confirms that. The only place they might end up going is San Antonio in a few years if nothing ever gets done here. Rams are returning to LA and you never hear speculation about the Chargers being the one joining them in The Wood it is always Raiders. The whole Carson sham was just a way to put mega pressure on SD City/County and it worked.

I also think Spanos is vying for some kind of "market compensation" for teams moving back to LA so he needs to make his LA proposal look serious. He wants to try and milk 200 million or so out of this deal for his "hardship" of having 2 teams come in to what he tries to claim is his market. I can see him getting a nice chunk of the Raiders/Rams relocation fee and walking away with 150 to 250 million from this.

The spoils of the jewel that is the LA market were always going to go to Kroenke or some mega rich owner who paid atleast 700 million for their franchis i.e. a fairly recent purchase. Why would Spanos be rewarded when he is a nobody who bought the team 30 years ago for 70 million. Kroenke paid close to 850 for his 100% stake in the Rams so it is only logical an owner who helped make these franchises worth so much would get to reap the bennies of LA not cheapo Spanos.

[SDfan]

The only place they might end up going is San Antonio in a few years if nothing ever gets done here.

I don't know about SA. A year or so ago the SA city council, or some authority in that area flirted with the idea of having an NFL team, and the owners of the Dallas Cowboys promptly told them to shut up. Texas (outside Houston) is Cowboys country, and they hold more leverage in the league than any other franchise. SA would need to get Dallas' approval, and that doesn't seem likely, or mount a very strong campaign to overcome their opposition.

[JoninATX]

I don't know about SA. A year or so ago the SA city council, or some authority in that area flirted with the idea of having an NFL team, and the owners of the Dallas Cowboys promptly told them to shut up. Texas (outside Houston) is Cowboys country, and they hold more leverage in the league than any other franchise. SA would need to get Dallas' approval, and that doesn't seem likely, or mount a very strong campaign to overcome their opposition.

The Cowboys are big around Texas, since it's the most popular team in the state. But do know San Antonio can hold a NFL on it's own. Jerry Jones is whining because if an NFL team ever lands in SA, he'll lose profit.

[JoninATX]

Weather Jerry Jones likes it or not. There will be 3 NFL teams in Texas someday.

[dales5050]

Sorry you guys are naive to think Chargers are going to LA and the above article confirms that. The only place they might end up going is San Antonio in a few years if nothing ever gets done here. Rams are returning to LA and you never hear speculation about the Chargers being the one joining them in The Wood it is always Raiders. The whole Carson sham was just a way to put mega pressure on SD City/County and it worked.

So because of a post on 'Rant Sports' by a guy who covers Texas says something you agree with...others are naive? That's pretty funny.

While it is true that Kroenke can move his team w/o approval it does not go into depth on why that's a really bad move. Beyond blocking the ability to host Super Bowls, he would not be eligible for funds from the NFL. While he may not need those funds, he will have to consider a large relocation fee that would need to be paid in concert with the loss of revenue and pissing off the other owners.

It also does not cover that Spanos the most liked of the 3 owners and the Rams moving would eat into the Chargers fan base and still leave to California teams without a home.

As the owner of Oakland said:

"There are three teams that need to get their stadiums figured out, and we'll see if we can get that done. I'm happy whichever way that works. I'd be more than happy to have something done in Oakland. I don't see it as a fight for Los Angeles. I see it as a fight for a home."

The NFL owners group is an exclusive club of men who have a history of getting what they want and not being pushed around. To suggest that one of those owners is going to go past rhetoric and challenge the rest of his group is what's pretty naive if you ask me.

I also think Spanos is vying for some kind of "market compensation" for teams moving back to LA so he needs to make his LA proposal look serious. He wants to try and milk 200 million or so out of this deal for his "hardship" of having 2 teams come in to what he tries to claim is his market. I can see him getting a nice chunk of the Raiders/Rams relocation fee and walking away with 150 to 250 million from this.


Heh. Just making stuff up I see. How about $100M or $300M...I can make up numbers.

Also it's not even an option to have both the Rams/Raiders in LA. Unless of course you're suggesting a guy like Kroenke is going to force a move of his own, pay for it out of his pocket and then share with Oakland.

Again, who is naive?

The spoils of the jewel that is the LA market were always going to go to Kroenke or some mega rich owner who paid at least 700 million for their franchis i.e. a fairly recent purchase. Why would Spanos be rewarded when he is a nobody who bought the team 30 years ago for 70 million. Kroenke paid close to 850 for his 100% stake in the Rams so it is only logical an owner who helped make these franchises worth so much would get to reap the bennies of LA not cheapo Spanos.

Some more inside stuff. lol

What an owner paid for a team has no bearing on their status with the other owners. The reason is the money from the sale of teams goes to the previous owner and not the league.

Under your brilliance, Terry Pegula is in like for a whole lot of goodies with the $1.4B he just paid for the team in Buffalo.

Again, while people like you might dislike Spanos and call him a 'cheapo'....he is the most liked of the 3 owners and that has a lot more weight than your opinion.

[Eightball]

Went to DT San Diego this past weekend for a couple days. Here are a couple photos of construction I noticed

Court House

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/288/19053274342_b2374707bf_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/v2F1E3)San Diego (https://flic.kr/p/v2F1E3) by robb (https://www.flickr.com/photos/73028294@N00/), on Flickr

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/283/18872673219_87e5223da5_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uKHoez)San Diego (https://flic.kr/p/uKHoez) by robb (https://www.flickr.com/photos/73028294@N00/), on Flickr

https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3703/18871164808_b88631655a_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uKzDQu)San Diego (https://flic.kr/p/uKzDQu) by robb (https://www.flickr.com/photos/73028294@N00/), on Flickr

I have no idea what this is called

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/331/19053267732_650282a7dc_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/v2EYG5)San Diego (https://flic.kr/p/v2EYG5) by robb (https://www.flickr.com/photos/73028294@N00/), on Flickr

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/485/19032604586_68eae415c8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uZR5fW)San Diego (https://flic.kr/p/uZR5fW) by robb (https://www.flickr.com/photos/73028294@N00/), on Flickr

https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3922/19053262642_4f4714976e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/v2EXbj)San Diego (https://flic.kr/p/v2EXbj) by robb (https://www.flickr.com/photos/73028294@N00/), on Flickr

https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3906/18436314824_005b7c71b9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/u69W5Y)San Diego (https://flic.kr/p/u69W5Y) by robb (https://www.flickr.com/photos/73028294@N00/), on Flickr

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/418/18871126500_fe6d28843f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uKzss1)San Diego (https://flic.kr/p/uKzss1) by robb (https://www.flickr.com/photos/73028294@N00/), on Flickr

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/436/18872661059_ba7be51f01_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uKHjBV)San Diego (https://flic.kr/p/uKHjBV) by robb (https://www.flickr.com/photos/73028294@N00/), on Flickr

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/506/18871155218_e3d3044e88_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uKzAZ9)San Diego (https://flic.kr/p/uKzAZ9) by robb (https://www.flickr.com/photos/73028294@N00/), on Flickr

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/554/18872658669_45dd407613_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uKHiUH)San Diego (https://flic.kr/p/uKHiUH) by robb (https://www.flickr.com/photos/73028294@N00/), on Flickr

I may post a few more later

[SDCAL]

^^ I hope the new courthouse brings more foot traffic/street activity to the area around the W Hotel. I've always been perplexed by the W's location, seemed kind of isolated. I know it's close to Little Italy, but the immediate area around the hotel always seemed desolate.

[SDfan]

Went to DT San Diego this past weekend for a couple days. Here are a couple photos of construction I noticed

I may post a few more later

Thank you for the update, and please do.

[JPAztec]

Has anybody been by the Bosa site on Pacific Highway and Broadway? Or how about Ballpark Village? Would be cool to know if they're pouring any concrete down in the Bosa hole, or if there's a crater at BP yet. Thanks!

[HurricaneHugo]

What building is going up next to the Marriott?

[Northparkwizard]

What building is going up next to the Marriott?

"Marriott is proposing a major renovation of its meeting facilities to meet demands for space, flexibility, technology, food service, and design. Marriott executives believe the changes would make the hotel competitive with the newer San Diego Convention Center headquarter hotels in the vicinity.

The proposed new facilities would enable Marriott to book more group meetings, which would help ensure Marriott continues to maximize its hotel room occupancy. It would result in increased revenues for the Port District. The proposed project would also add a public access corridor, known as Marina Walk, between the Marriott and the adjacent Manchester Grand Hyatt. Marina Walk would improve public access to the South Embarcadero waterfront from Harbor Drive and the adjacent downtown residential community. Furthermore, the proposed project includes a 25,000-square-foot paved outdoor event area that will be used for hotel events such as cocktail parties and recptions; when not in use for Marriott events, it will be available for the public to use as an open gathering and activity space. The proposed project does not involve an increase in the number of hotel rooms or any in-water work at the Marriott Marina."

https://www.portofsandiego.org/san-diego-marriott-marquis-marina/3201-marriott-marquis-a-marina-upgrade-approved-by-california-coastal-commission.html

[Streamliner]

The Marriott project will really help break up the wall in front of the waterfront:

https://www.portofsandiego.org/images/stories/Real-Estate/devprojects/marriott/sdmarriottdetails.jpg

https://www.portofsandiego.org/images/stories/Real-Estate/devprojects/marriott/newpix/web-marriott-hall-rendering-day.jpg
Source (https://www.portofsandiego.org/san-diego-marriott-marquis-marina/3201-marriott-marquis-a-marina-upgrade-approved-by-california-coastal-commission.html)

Compared to:

http://i.imgur.com/RLkwqVU.jpg

This is the same project that burst a pipe a month or two ago if anyone remembers that.

[JoninATX]

Great rundown. Can't wait to get back to San Diego in the next few months. :)

[Bertrice]

Marriott had big water main break a couple months ago

http://fox5sandiego.com/2015/05/06/main-break-causes-hotels-to-go-without-water/

http://media.10news.com/photo/2015/05/06/Main_break_leaves_hotels_without_water_2914470001_17951657_ver1.0_640_480.jpg

[staplesla]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AoqxICPGT8

The embedding seems to be messing up, but you can click the link below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AoqxICPGT8

[Crackertastik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AoqxICPGT8

The embedding seems to be messing up, but you can click the link below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AoqxICPGT8

The video was great to see and made me really excited for the future of our skyline....and then I saw the sea of Parking at the Navy Broadway Complex.

What is the status of that project with Manchester. If not now, when? We are nearing the peak of this cycle. What the heck is the hold up, especially since I thought courts dismissed all of the litigation holding it up, nearly a year ago.

The waterfront will continue to drag and be a secondary attraction for downtown until that is completed.

[ScottSD]

Has anybody been by the Bosa site on Pacific Highway and Broadway? Or how about Ballpark Village? Would be cool to know if they're pouring any concrete down in the Bosa hole, or if there's a crater at BP yet. Thanks!

Here is a photo from this morning of the excavation at Ballpark Village.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/261/18482505123_8a4ba6db6f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uaeERr)
Ballpark Village (https://flic.kr/p/uaeERr) by ScottSD (https://www.flickr.com/photos/130854680@N03/), on Flickr

[SDCAL]

Finally. More details on this development.

From http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jun/23/ritz-carlton-hotel-whole-foods-proposed-downtown/

Downtown may get its first 5-star hotel

By Lori Weisberg6:16 p.m.June 23, 2015

SAN DIEGO - San Diego could be getting its first five-star downtown hotel, plus a Whole Foods market, as part of a proposal to develop a key East Village site at 7th Avenue and Market Street.

Cisterra Development, which has just completed a new downtown headquarters office building for Sempra, has proposed building a 160-room Ritz Carlton and 58 Ritz-branded condos as part of a mixed-use project that would also include offices, 115 apartments, 32 affordable housing units and public parking.

That proposal, along with another proposed project planned for a second East Village site at Park Boulevard and Market Street, will be considered at a July 15 meeting of a committee composed of Civic San Diego board members. They will make a recommendation on whether the city should enter into negotiations with the project developers.

The Park Boulevard project, proposed by the Vancouver-based Holland Partner Group, also envisions a mix of uses, including 341 apartments, of which 86 would be affordable, 51,700 square feet of office space and 22,900 square feet of retail space. The Ritz Carlton, rental units and condos will be part of a 39-story residential tower.

“We at Cisterra have great pride in what we’ve done in that neighborhood, having entered that market back in 2002 before the ballpark was even completed,” said Jason Wood, a project principal with Cisterra, which built the DiamondView office tower overlooking Petco Park. “Downtown San Diego needs a five-star hotel, and all other cities of any significance have at least one five-star hotel in downtown. We said this is the site to do it on, and Marriott (Ritz’s parent company) agreed with us.”

Next month’s Civic San Diego meeting will culminate a more than year-long process that began in December 2013 when Civic San Diego, a nonprofit corporation that oversees downtown development, sought proposals for the two East Village sites.

It is that process that is now being called into question by one of the competing developers, the Robert Green Company, which submitted proposals for the two downtown sites, which are both city-owned. As part of their submissions, developers were asked to include affordable housing and also what they would pay for the land. Those proceeds would go toward developing low-income housing elsewhere.

Green, in a letter last December to Civic San Diego and again in an interview on Tuesday, accused Civic San Diego of not adhering to its own decision-making process and giving its competitors an unfair advantage by allowing them to revise their original project proposals and change the purchase prices they offered for the city-owned land. He argued that the two projects, according to Civic San Diego, were flawed, while his was not.

The recommended projects, which ultimately will go to the full Civic San Diego board at the end of July and to the City Council most likely in September, were chosen by a selection committee that included representatives from Civic San Diego and the city.

Green’s biggest concerns relate to the 7th and Market site where he had proposed bringing a Virgin Hotel to downtown, as well as an Eataly food hall popularized by celebrity chef Mario Batali.

“Allowing others to change their submittals after our proposal was received is not only unfair in giving them more time to correct mistakes that should have disqualified them, it also makes it very possible for our proposed pricing and ideas to have been leaked to competitors, thereby influencing the revisions they are being allowed to make and compromising the integrity of the process,” wrote CEO Robert Green Jr.

He said on Tuesday that he plans to share his concerns with Civic San Diego board members, as well as City Council members “so that they don’t make a decision in a vacuum without knowing that these things occurred.” Green, whose company has teamed with Montage Hotels & Resorts to build an upscale 317-room Pendry Hotel in the Gaslamp Quarter, said he will consider filing a formal protest.

Civic San Diego President Reese Jarrett said Tuesday he believes the process was a fair one.

“This was a fair, diligent and comprehensive process conducted by the selection committee, and their recommendation will go through a public process,” he said.

[Northparkwizard]

If not now, when? We are nearing the peak of this cycle. What the heck is the hold up, especially since I thought courts dismissed all of the litigation holding it up, nearly a year ago.

I'd guess it's in planning and if you've ever been to the DSD operations building you know what that means. Also I think they just initiated all new standards for SWPPP/Hydromodification for CA. Plus that proposal is so old now they probably need new acoustical, traffic, environmental, etc studies done not to mention costal commission approval.

Building in California... :slob:

[Eightball]

u/c in Little Italy (shot from PrepKitchen)

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/477/18872656229_bbc5b7ce1b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uKHibD)San Diego (https://flic.kr/p/uKHibD) by robb (https://www.flickr.com/photos/73028294@N00/), on Flickr

no idea where this is

https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3935/18436306874_ca4d259940_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/u69THU)San Diego (https://flic.kr/p/u69THU) by robb (https://www.flickr.com/photos/73028294@N00/), on Flickr

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/313/18871119270_1bd02e62a6_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uKzqim)San Diego (https://flic.kr/p/uKzqim) by robb (https://www.flickr.com/photos/73028294@N00/), on Flickr

another of the central court

https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3943/19032589066_bb084e6b86_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uZQZDm)San Diego (https://flic.kr/p/uZQZDm) by robb (https://www.flickr.com/photos/73028294@N00/), on Flickr

[Streamliner]

no idea where this is

https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3935/18436306874_ca4d259940_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/u69THU)San Diego (https://flic.kr/p/u69THU) by robb (https://www.flickr.com/photos/73028294@N00/), on Flickr


That's at India and Ivy, looking toward the Fat City project

[mello]

Curious why doesn't the city put out request for proposals on the Sports Arena Property, MTS bus terminal, and (years ago) the Qualcomm stadium site. Seems like they would want to get the ball rolling on these prime sites to see what ideas the private sector has. You had people jumping at 12th/7th and Market so it seems like a no brainer. If they had planned for development at the Q site ten years ago maybe the EIR and all this mess would have already been finished. What are the odds of a private developer wanting to build an Arena and 2 500 footers on the bus terminal site?

Also 7th and Market 39 floors... I hope this is mixed use with office/hotel to push it to a 500 foot 39 floor tower rather than The Grande which is only 420 ft. 39 fl because it is all residential. I really think 7th/M should build to the highest point allowed.

[kyzerky]

Check this link out!
http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jun/24/architects-newschool-graduates-thesis/

[ScottSD]

Here is a photo taken on June 24, 2015 of the Mr. Robinson project at the corner of Park & Robinson.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/469/19133081831_f448446baa_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/v9J3De)
Mr. Robinson (https://flic.kr/p/v9J3De) by ScottSD (https://www.flickr.com/photos/130854680@N03/), on Flickr

[dales5050]

Curious why doesn't the city put out request for proposals on the Sports Arena Property, MTS bus terminal, and (years ago) the Qualcomm stadium site. Seems like they would want to get the ball rolling on these prime sites to see what ideas the private sector has.

The Q and MTS terminal both would require the development of replacement facilities. I think due to this, you're not going to see them being sold unless a very large public project is attached to ensure the replacements are constructed.

For the sports arena, the original lease went to 2017 but was extended to 2020 back in 2010. I think you might see some movement on this around 2017.

[Xavier Cage]

I think the best location for a new sports arena is Tailgate Park. A 20,000 seat arena is a much better fit for the east village. Plus you wouldn't have to mess with the MTS bus yard.

[dales5050]

I think the best location for a new sports arena is Tailgate Park. A 20,000 seat arena is a much better fit for the east village. Plus you wouldn't have to mess with the MTS bus yard.

What does San Diego need a 20,000 arena for?

[Xavier Cage]

What does San Diego need a 20,000 arena for?

To replace the NFL team it's about to lose with an NBA team.

To replace the current arena that is 49 years old

To not get skipped over by major concerts who don't play San Diego because of its 14,000 seat old arena.

[dales5050]

To replace the NFL team it's about to lose with an NBA team.

That's not going to happen for a very, very long time...if ever at all.

To replace the current arena that is 49 years old
It's not really needed.

To not get skipped over by major concerts who don't play San Diego because of its 14,000 seat old arena.

Not good enough. Besides, there are multiple venues around San Diego that hold major concerts. e.g. Petco and Sleep Train.

[eburress]

To replace the NFL team it's about to lose with an NBA team.

To replace the current arena that is 49 years old

To not get skipped over by major concerts who don't play San Diego because of its 14,000 seat old arena.

I happen to agree with you. The Sports Arena is an embarrassment and desperately needs to be replaced.

[Nerv]

Does anyone know if the Blue Sky project has broken ground?

If so, how far along.

[dtell04]

Does anyone know if the Blue Sky project has broken ground?

If so, how far along.

I just peaked over the fence today. They have completed the excavation and started pouring concrete already.

[Bertrice]

Does anyone know if the Blue Sky project has broken ground?

If so, how far along.

Found these on twitter from a couple weeks ago

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHo30M_WUAAB36k.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHo30NBWcAM9Aw8.jpg

[Northparkwizard]

"New Little Italy Garage Tops Out, Opening Soon"

Video:
http://www.countynewscenter.com/video?v=157014

[dales5050]

I happen to agree with you. The Sports Arena is an embarrassment and desperately needs to be replaced.

The arena is old that's for sure but the reason why it's an embarrassment is because it's not needed.

A new arena for a NBA franchise, which is not coming to San Diego anytime soon, would start at around $400M on the very low end.

Spending that kind of money to get additional concerts is absurd. Sleep Train Amphitheater in Chula Vista seats 10,500. Petco Park can hold north of 40,000. While I am sure there are concerts that would like a 20,000 arena there are maybe 5 of those tours a year that don't go up to Petco Park levels or down to Sleep Train levels. And people make the 8 games a year argument for the NFL....

[Nerv]

The arena is old that's for sure but the reason why it's an embarrassment is because it's not needed.

A new arena for a NBA franchise, which is not coming to San Diego anytime soon, would start at around $400M on the very low end.

Spending that kind of money to get additional concerts is absurd. Sleep Train Amphitheater in Chula Vista seats 10,500. Petco Park can hold north of 40,000. While I am sure there are concerts that would like a 20,000 arena there are maybe 5 of those tours a year that don't go up to Petco Park levels or down to Sleep Train levels. And people make the 8 games a year argument for the NFL....



I am going to agree that right now the city has other pressing matters that need addressing first like a convention center expansion,etc.

That said we get passed over a lot these days for concerts. We are losing a fair amount of concerts each year by not having a decent venue for them and no Petco and Chula Vista aren't really happening for many concerts that we never see. Not enough reason though to build a new arena (yet).


One interesting thing to watch is that the NHL was exploring the thought of a team in San Diego at some point in the 1990's and I've heard some rumours that the reaction to the new Gulls team in the AHL here might be enough to get that thought rolling again.

As to a NBA team here...maybe. That would probably require the ability to build a new arena along with a team in the NBA that is willing to move. If you could build a new arena for concerts and a NHL team then maybe you have a shot at NBA too. Maybe. But that's all speculation.


One area we probably could get a team in is the MLS. We are still the number one market for soccer on TV and the MLS would love to get us a team if you believe past comments.

No great venue though right now in San diego.

[Nerv]

Found these on twitter from a couple weeks ago

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHo30M_WUAAB36k.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHo30NBWcAM9Aw8.jpg


I just peaked over the fence today. They have completed the excavation and started pouring concrete already.


Thanks to both of you. :)

[spoonman]

Couple of new developments moving forward in Oceanside and Kearny Mesa...

http://www.sdbj.com/news/2015/jun/25/sunroad-begins-fourth-phase-kearny-mesa-luxury-apa/

http://ocbj.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2015/06/25/Sunroad_Ariva_t286.jpg?bbf6033217fd363b80b8c649142dbd7491934c06

http://www.sdbj.com/news/2015/jun/23/developers-start-work-21-million-oceanside-mixed-u/

http://ocbj.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2015/06/23/Ryan_Cos__Block_18_Oceanside_t286.jpg?bbf6033217fd363b80b8c649142dbd7491934c06

[mello]

Oceanside is really starting to step up and is filling in nicely. How many people can Viejas seat for a concert I know its 11,500 for basketball. Oracle Arena in Oakland was basically the same size as ours and then they added in luxury suites and more seats not sure if that could be done here, obviously the concourses are atrocious. Kansas City has an arena that is gorgeous downtown and of course Seattle will be the next city to get an NBA team also talks of Phoenix Coyotes possibly moving to SEA.

Was at Altitude Bar atop the Marriot next to Petco and looked out to the skyline it really needs 450ft. plus towers at 7th/12th and Market. Please city of SD pick proposals that want to go at least that tall. With some serious height along market along with 15th and Island Ball Park Village SD will really be looking respectable and you won't be having idiots claiming Bellevue rivals our skyline! ;)

[dales5050]

That said we get passed over a lot these days for concerts. We are losing a fair amount of concerts each year by not having a decent venue for them and no Petco and Chula Vista aren't really happening for many concerts that we never see. Not enough reason though to build a new arena (yet).

Still not seeing it. Also forgot to mention Valley View (which seats 16,100) and Viejas Arena (which seats 12,414).

I think when you take those 4 venues, San Diego is well served in options and maybe the reason why concerts bypass San Diego is not due to venue options....


One interesting thing to watch is that the NHL was exploring the thought of a team in San Diego at some point in the 1990's and I've heard some rumors that the reaction to the new Gulls team in the AHL here might be enough to get that thought rolling again.

Like the NBA, there are multiple cities that are already in line for any future NHL expansion. Cities that either have been working on it for years and/or already have arenas under construction or built.

As to a NBA team here...maybe. That would probably require the ability to build a new arena along with a team in the NBA that is willing to move. If you could build a new arena for concerts and a NHL team then maybe you have a shot at NBA too. Maybe. But that's all speculation.

Like the NHL, it's not just about the arena. There is very little support for both basketball and hockey in the region. This is unlike many of the cities that

One area we probably could get a team in is the MLS. We are still the number one market for soccer on TV and the MLS would love to get us a team if you believe past comments.

This is something! I think MLS would do very well in San Diego.

As I have said before, I think the Chargers are gone. But the Q redevelopment can still happen with a mixed use (40,000 seat) stadium for a MLS team and SDSU.

Same idea but on a smaller scale.

[dales5050]

"New Little Italy Garage Tops Out, Opening Soon"

Video:
http://www.countynewscenter.com/video?v=157014


This parking ramp is going to do some awesome things for Little Italy. I love how they left two sides for residential. Eventually it will blend into the fabric of the neighborhood.

:tup:

[dtell04]

http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/70-yr-old-sign-removed-to-renovate-building-to-house-homeless-311011931.html?m=y&smobile=y
Does anyone know why the sign needs to be lit up in red neon?!!
No wonder this shit goes over budget.

[202_Cyclist]

Speaking of Oceanside, I was talking with someone I know this past week who works at the Federal Transit Administration and he mentioned there is a serious proposal to build a new station at Camp Pendleton that can be used by Metrolink, Coaster, and Amtrak.

NCTD Camp Pendleton Station Analysis
http://www.gonctd.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Camp%20Pendleton%20Station%20Analysis%20Final%20Study%20Report.pdf

[spoonman]

http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/70-yr-old-sign-removed-to-renovate-building-to-house-homeless-311011931.html?m=y&smobile=y
Does anyone know why the sign needs to be lit up in red neon?!!
No wonder this shit goes over budget.

Probably because the sign is a piece of history and there are few like it downtown.

This is not directed at you, but I find it amusing when people get mad about tax dollars being spent on tangible things, when so much is pissed away behind the scenes with nothing to show for it.

[dtell04]

Probably because the sign is a piece of history and there are few like it downtown.

This is not directed at you, but I find it amusing when people get mad about tax dollars being spent on tangible things, when so much is pissed away behind the scenes with nothing to show for it.

I live a few blocks away. It didn't have lights on it to begin with. Refurbish fine, but stop there.
That might be why I'm always pissed then! Haha good observation.

[Leo the Dog]

Oceanside is really starting to step up and is filling in nicely. How many people can Viejas seat for a concert I know its 11,500 for basketball. Oracle Arena in Oakland was basically the same size as ours and then they added in luxury suites and more seats not sure if that could be done here, obviously the concourses are atrocious. Kansas City has an arena that is gorgeous downtown and of course Seattle will be the next city to get an NBA team also talks of Phoenix Coyotes possibly moving to SEA.

The Phoenix development forum was discussing the idea of a new Suns/Coyotes arena being built, possibly in Tempe. I guess the Suns are considering moving out of their DT arena which opened in 1992. The coyotes struck a deal with Glendale, AZ and got stuck in a bad situation by a failing mega-development that never came close to its economic projections to the city of Glendale. With that said, their arena (2006) is great.

[Northparkwizard]

There is very little support for both basketball and hockey in the region.

Aztec Basketball games have had their entire seasons sold out for I think the last 5 years. 12,000+ tickets per game. So, i'd say you're wrong at least on that point.

[SDfan]

Aztec Basketball games have had their entire seasons sold out for I think the last 5 years. 12,000+ tickets per game. So, i'd say you're wrong at least on that point.

True, but counterpoint: a significant amount of those tickets are given away to the student body for free.

[spoonman]

Aztec Basketball games have had their entire seasons sold out for I think the last 5 years. 12,000+ tickets per game. So, i'd say you're wrong at least on that point.

Also there is huge support for the return of the Gulls to San Diego.

[Northparkwizard]

True, but counterpoint: a significant amount of those tickets are given away to the student body for free.

It's a 2,500-seat SDSU student section. If there were 2,500-5,000 more seats they'd be sold out too, to the folks on the waiting list. So yes, there's a ton of support for basketball in the region. But those are just facts not conjecture.

Insert laughing thingy.

[Northparkwizard]

Also there is huge support for the return of the Gulls to San Diego.

You're right.

[SDfan]

It's a 2,500-seat SDSU student section. If there were 2,500-5,000 more seats they'd be sold out too, to the folks on the waiting list. So yes, there's a ton of support for basketball in the region. But those are just facts not conjecture.

Insert laughing thingy.

You mean:

:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

That's me laughing at the idea of our region putting forth the effort to lure an NBA team. I hope you're not on the waiting list too long. :haha:

[JPAztec]

[QUOTE=SDfan;7082396]You mean:

:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

That's me laughing at the idea of our region putting forth the effort to lure an NBA team. I hope you're not on the waiting list too long. :haha

I'll have to agree with SDFAN on this one. The reason that the Aztec games sell out every year is A) They're good, B) the student section is outstanding and creates a terrific atmosphere, C) there is school pride and alumni tradition involved.

An NBA team would draw fan support for a couple of seasons based on it being fresh and new and something shiny to look at. If the team sucked, fan support would dwindle in a heart beat, because nobody would want to sit indoors to watch a crummy team. There are too many other outdoor activities in town that have much more of a draw then a bottom feeding pro team.

I love the idea of massively overhauling, or replacing the dumpy sports arena, but it would have to have a legitimate plan to get 125-150 events a year out of it. I'm a supporter of new sports facilities in this city mostly because major events can draw a TON of revenue, but also, the current sites are a black eye on a city that has truly grown up in the past 15 years, and our public venues that appear on national TV multiple times a year need to reflect that.

When CBS airs the blimp shot for Charger games, and they pan from Coronado to downtown, over Mission Hills, and finally down to Qualcomm, I say wow what a beautiful beach, beautiful city, amazing topography and architecture, and wo......holy buckets that place is a dump. Very few on this board seem to realize the amount of advertising those 3 hours get our city. You have families in Green Bay, and Buffalo, and Cleveland, and Detroit, and basically anywhere outside of FL an AZ, watching football in December hearing the announcer say "a beautiful and sunny 75 degrees in SD at kickoff", and practically booking a trip that day. That sort of branding can't be understated, and this city certainly has something to offer that most places don't. It would be a shame to lose what little bit of national advertising we get, on top of losing a major league franchise. Lose/lose in the opinion of this NATIVE San Diegan.

[dales5050]

Aztec Basketball games have had their entire seasons sold out for I think the last 5 years. 12,000+ tickets per game. So, i'd say you're wrong at least on that point.

NCAA ≠ NBA

The lowest avg ticket price for the NBA is $30.20 and without playoffs it's 41 home games a year. For SDSU, you can get season tickets in the cheap seats for $150 or about $10 a game.

So not only are you going to need to find about 8,000 more fans, they will need to be willing to pay at least 3x more per game and go to twice as many games.

NCAA ≠ NBA

[Northparkwizard]

NCAA ≠ NBA

The lowest avg ticket price for the NBA is $30.20 and without playoffs it's 41 home games a year. For SDSU, you can get season tickets in the cheap seats for $150 or about $10 a game.

So not only are you going to need to find about 8,000 more fans, they will need to be willing to pay at least 3x more per game and go to twice as many games.

NCAA ≠ NBA


When did I mention the NBA? I didn't.

You said there wasn't any interest in Basketball in the region. I pointed out that SDSU sells out every game and there's a waiting list.

Your attacking the Straw Man.

[SDfan]

When did I mention the NBA? I didn't.

You said there wasn't any interest in Basketball in the region. I pointed out that SDSU sells out every game and there's a waiting list.

Your attacking the Straw Man.

Oh, way to try and save face Northpark. Lol. What else could you have been talking about? The WNBA? Another college team?

Come to think of it, is there minor league basketball?

Don't get me wrong though, I would love it if San Diego could build a new area, or at least redevelop the current sports arena. But like the airport, community planning, and transportation, I have little faith in this city moving forward substantially.

[ucsbgaucho]

San Diego would be good for an NHL team, probably not as much an NBA team. Though I think either could fare well here, depending on who the owner is. NBA is great because the stars are spread out and small-market teams like OKC can have the best players in the league, it's no longer a league that needs LA and NY to be dominant. Plus, you're getting a big star pretty much every game, and the number of games is manageable. But SD has had a good long history with hockey, it's a fall-winter-spring sport instead of summer so you have don't have as much competition for "activities" that people could be doing like you do with baseball in the summer. And NHL does really well in small markets.

I don't think SD could financially support all four leagues, and I think the MLS would REALLY do well here. San Diego is always a Top-5 market in TV viewership for all World Cups, and often #1. An MLS stadium doesn't cost a lot (relatively speaking), doesn't need a big footprint, and if the Chargers do leave, I could seriously see a 40,000-seat stadium built jointly by SDSU and an MLS franchise in the near future, as SDSU won't be able to keep the Q going for much longer by itself.

I could see MLS and NHL here and successful. MLS and SDSU could join together and you could put an arena on the same grounds where the Q is now, and have plenty of room for additional development.

[timpdx]

Just saw this news: Comic Con is committed to staying in San Diego through 2018

[Streamliner]

Just saw this news: Comic Con is committed to staying in San Diego through 2018

Here's an article:

Comic-Con to stay in San Diego through 2018

Comic-Con is here to stay, at least through 2018, under a two-year deal announced Thursday by San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer.

The new agreement between the city and Comic-Con International follows months of back-and-forth negotiations that hinged on the willingness of dozens of local hotels to hold the line on their room rates, which tend to soar when the always sold-out convention is in town.

The pop culture confab, which will get under way next week, is under contract to remain in San Diego through next year. The city has been trying since last year to secure a commitment from organizers to remain in San Diego for 2017 and 2018, despite a failed effort to expand the city's bayfront convention center. So important is the Con to the city that the mayor intervened in negotiations to persuade hotels to meet Comic-Con's request that they keep their room rates affordably priced.

Link to the article:
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jul/02/comic-con-two-year-contract-through-2018/

Also interesting: the Union-Tribune website changed, and they got rid of the "U-T San Diego" brand completely.

[dales5050]

When did I mention the NBA? I didn't.

You said there wasn't any interest in Basketball in the region. I pointed out that SDSU sells out every game and there's a waiting list.

Your attacking the Straw Man.

Words matter. As does reading reading comprehension. Clearly you have trouble with both.

When discussing the ability to land an NBA team I said there is very little support for both basketball and hockey in the region. You responded to that with a weak argument about how SDSU sells out.

So either you commented on something you didn't understand or you just don't like being proven wrong.

The NBA is considering cities like Louisville and Seattle. In Louisville, basketball is a part of the culture. In Seattle, they already had a team and there is a built in fan base. The reasons why the Sonics left had nothing to do with fan support.

Considering this, how SDSU sells out means jack.

[Northparkwizard]

Oh, way to try and save face Northpark. Lol. What else could you have been talking about? The WNBA? Another college team?

Come to think of it, is there minor league basketball?

Don't get me wrong though, I would love it if San Diego could build a new area, or at least redevelop the current sports arena. But like the airport, community planning, and transportation, I have little faith in this city moving forward substantially.

Save face? I never mentioned the NBA and that's obvious. Simply stating that our NCAA Division I Basketball team enjoys tremendous support. Nothing more.

:koko:

[Northparkwizard]

Words matter. As does reading reading comprehension. Clearly you have trouble with both.

When discussing the ability to land an NBA team I said there is very little support for both basketball and hockey in the region. You responded to that with a weak argument about how SDSU sells out.

So either you commented on something you didn't understand or you just don't like being proven wrong.

The NBA is considering cities like Louisville and Seattle. In Louisville, basketball is a part of the culture. In Seattle, they already had a team and there is a built in fan base. The reasons why the Sonics left had nothing to do with fan support.

Considering this, how SDSU sells out means jack.

I guess we disagree. Oh well.

[Nerv]

You could debate the level of interest for the NBA and NHL in supporting a team in San Diego until you drop.

Since we have neither it's down to someone's opinion and not facts. The people making that call are probably not posting on these boards. Since there has been some minor talk over the years of getting both for San Diego someone who has a better understanding of the real possible interest has thought enough to make even a suggestion of it happening.


We have zero history to judge NHL interest here. NBA? Oh yeah, the Rockets started here in the late 60's and the Clippers passed by for four years between starting in Buffalo and ending up in LA. Both teams were awful when they played in SD some 35-45 years ago!


I have no idea myself if the city would support either sport at a pro level and without facts I'll stick to that for now.

I will say to get either sport here you will need a new arena along with a perfect storm of things coming together like a team wanting to move here or an owner with a group with a real plan to make it happen. This isn't a city effort of trying to build a new arena and get teams but an owner and group wanting to move here with a plan to build a new arena.

So will it ever happen? Who knows? Maybe.

I said before I'm curious to see how a new Gulls team in the AHL draws here first.


I also think for the near future with the Chargers now leaving (probably) the idea of San Diego State having to scramble over the next couple of years to figure out how to build a new smaller stadium (their clock will be ticking at the Q) that the suggestion of getting it done with a MLS team moving here (that's actually possible) sounds pretty good.

That's years away from happening but at least there's some hope on that front. With NBA or NHL we are going to have to wait for something to come our way first.

[SDfan]

Words matter. As does reading reading comprehension. Clearly you have trouble with both.

This is hilarious coming from you, dalez. ;)

In other news:

Architects Named for $250 Million Downtown Project
http://sdbj.com/news/2015/jul/02/architects-named-250-million-downtown-project/

Zephyr Partners recently named the lead building design and landscape architects for The Block, a $250 million downtown mixed-use project announced last year by the San Diego-based developer.

Officials said the lead architect is Joseph Wong, of Joseph Wong Design Associates in San Diego. Landscape architecture will be overseen by Lifescapes International Inc. of Newport Beach.

Plans for The Block, also known informally as Broadway Block, are currently under review by downtown community planners and Civic San Diego. City documents indicate that the residential and retail project spans the full block bounded by C Street, Broadway, Seventh and Eighth avenues.

Does anyone have access to the San Diego Business Journal? There are a lot of great articles in there, but they require a subscription. :(

[SDfan]

Save face? I never mentioned the NBA and that's obvious. Simply stating that our NCAA Division I Basketball team enjoys tremendous support. Nothing more.

:koko:

Fine. I'll accept this. :tup:

[HurricaneHugo]

This city is never going to get an NBA team or NHL.

Don't know why we're even debating it.

MLS? Maybe but we're not even in the discussion for future teams like Sacramento or Vegas

[mello]

I think MLS is a great fit here and I have found the perfect location: Get Irwin Jacobs sons off their ass and convince the DOD to give up the 120 acres of flat land sitting behind the North City Water Reclamation plant on Miramar Rd.

I have never understood why this land is part of Mira Mar Air Station it is so prime and just sits there unused. It is right next to the 805 and very centrally located and closer to North County money so attendance should be high (MLS tickets are not cheap btw do a search and see). I am trying to post a screen shot of google maps to show you guys where this parcel is.

[Northparkwizard]

Non-basketball news, I dropped by the Cross-Border Terminal project in Otay which in nearly complete.

Meh.
http://i.imgur.com/UsG31lml.jpg

Sorta looks like the entryway of a average South American hotel.
http://i.imgur.com/rajgbRil.jpg

The actual unfinished cross-border bridge from the U.S. into Mexico looking south-east.
http://i.imgur.com/dJ2BaDgl.jpg

One of a kind for sure. Let's see if anyone uses it, if the flights are cheaper from Rodriguez i'll use it.

[mello]

^^ This is going to be huge, and hopefully open up San Diego to rich Mexico City residents looking to buy real estate here and fuel more vertical growth downtown. Spoke to a realtor in the gaslamp and he said hardly any Chinese, Russian, Korean buyers here they are all going to LA. Does anyone have any ideas on how we can attract foreigners with money to San Diego?

[HurricaneHugo]

View of downtown from Icon by Scott Murphy from Reddit:

https://i.imgur.com/jAlJ77t.jpg

It's starting to look like a real downtown!

[Northparkwizard]

Good news from SDBJ:

"MTS Receives $31.9 Million for New Courthouse Trolley Station, Light-Rail Vehicles

By Tarcy Connors
Wednesday, July 1, 2015
The San Diego Metropolitan Transit System (MTS) has been awarded $31.9 million from the Transit and Intercity Rail Capital Program (TIRCP).

The MTS grant is one of only 14 projects in the state funded by the State of California’s 2015 and 2016 cap-and-trade budget. A total of $224 million is being allocated for the TIRCP.

The grant will be used to purchase eight new light rail vehicles to increase capacity on the MTS Trolley system, and for a new trolley station serving the 22-story San Diego Central Courthouse being built on C Street between State and Union streets. The proximity of the new station will provide convenient access to the 44,500 jobs expected to be within a half-mile walk by 2020.

“The addition of the light rail vehicles will ease overcrowding on the Trolley, making it more attractive and comfortable,” said MTS Chief Executive Officer Paul Jablonski. “And the new rail station will serve the expanding court complex, which is a major destination for employees and jurors.”

The Cap-and-Trade program was established via Assembly Bill 32 to collect fees from producers of greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions. The fees collected are then distributed to a variety of projects that will provide long-term reductions in GHG emissions. The addition of trolley cars will increase capacity on the MTS Blue and Orange Lines, thereby encouraging more trips via public transit instead of by car. The new downtown station will reduce train congestion at Santa Fe Depot, allowing for more trips on Trolley, COASTER and Amtrak from there, which can reduce trips in automobiles.

MTS expects to take delivery on the new Trolleys and begin construction on the new station by late 2017."

[SDfan]

View of downtown from Icon by Scott Murphy from Reddit:

https://i.imgur.com/jAlJ77t.jpg

It's starting to look like a real downtown!

Love this. :)

[SDfan]

Sorta looks like the entryway of a average South American hotel.

Nailed it! :haha:

[embora]

Good news from SDBJ:

"MTS Receives $31.9 Million for New Courthouse Trolley Station, Light-Rail Vehicles

By Tarcy Connors
Wednesday, July 1, 2015
The San Diego Metropolitan Transit System (MTS) has been awarded $31.9 million from the Transit and Intercity Rail Capital Program (TIRCP).


Wow, that is very interesting. Thank you for sharing. Here are two articles on another transit-related story:

The synopsis is that a shuttle will take people from a shuttle stop a city block away from the Middletown Trolley to the Lindberg Field terminals, and back. There will be improvements to the pedestrian infrastructure between the shuttle stop and the trolley station.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jul/02/shuttle-between-trolley-airport-arriving/

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/400-steps-san-diegans-a-giant-leap-for-commuters/

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Palm-St-ProjectFootprintMap_June2015-791x1024.jpg

[Nerv]

Not to create any more debate but more for a historical perspective of San Diego's history with the NBA here's two really good articles for anyone interested on the subject.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cyrus-saatsaz/the-history-of-profession_b_7516026.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cyrus-saatsaz/the-history-of-profession_3_b_7614692.html

[Nerv]

Good news from SDBJ:

"MTS Receives $31.9 Million for New Courthouse Trolley Station, Light-Rail Vehicles

By Tarcy Connors
Wednesday, July 1, 2015
The San Diego Metropolitan Transit System (MTS) has been awarded $31.9 million from the Transit and Intercity Rail Capital Program (TIRCP).

The MTS grant is one of only 14 projects in the state funded by the State of California’s 2015 and 2016 cap-and-trade budget. A total of $224 million is being allocated for the TIRCP.

The grant will be used to purchase eight new light rail vehicles to increase capacity on the MTS Trolley system, and for a new trolley station serving the 22-story San Diego Central Courthouse being built on C Street between State and Union streets. The proximity of the new station will provide convenient access to the 44,500 jobs expected to be within a half-mile walk by 2020.

“The addition of the light rail vehicles will ease overcrowding on the Trolley, making it more attractive and comfortable,” said MTS Chief Executive Officer Paul Jablonski. “And the new rail station will serve the expanding court complex, which is a major destination for employees and jurors.”

The Cap-and-Trade program was established via Assembly Bill 32 to collect fees from producers of greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions. The fees collected are then distributed to a variety of projects that will provide long-term reductions in GHG emissions. The addition of trolley cars will increase capacity on the MTS Blue and Orange Lines, thereby encouraging more trips via public transit instead of by car. The new downtown station will reduce train congestion at Santa Fe Depot, allowing for more trips on Trolley, COASTER and Amtrak from there, which can reduce trips in automobiles.

MTS expects to take delivery on the new Trolleys and begin construction on the new station by late 2017."



The city wil also have the UTC link completed around 2019 (2016 start I believe).

Hopefully with the UTC line finally being put to "bed" they can focus on the trolley line to the airport and the streetcar line to balboa park that have been proposed.

[SDCAL]

The city wil also have the UTC link completed around 2019 (2016 start I believe).

Hopefully with the UTC line finally being put to "bed" they can focus on the trolley line to the airport and the streetcar line to balboa park that have been proposed.

Pardon my ignorance, but what's the difference between a streetcar line and a trolley line?

They need a trolley line up Park to Hillcrest/North Park with a stop at Balboa Park on the way. It would be really inept planning to just put a line to Balboa Park without extending a stop up to the Hillcrest/North Park area.

[SDCAL]

^^ This is going to be huge, and hopefully open up San Diego to rich Mexico City residents looking to buy real estate here and fuel more vertical growth downtown. Spoke to a realtor in the gaslamp and he said hardly any Chinese, Russian, Korean buyers here they are all going to LA. Does anyone have any ideas on how we can attract foreigners with money to San Diego?

There are likely many reasons, but I think many come back to the fact that SD is not a first tier international city. One major glaring problem is the airport. Other than Tokyo and London, we have no direct flights overseas. Compare to LA, SF, Miami, NYC - the cities with the major international real estate investments. They have far better airports and while this may not seem like a big deal, if you're a Russian or Chinese national who wants to buy a luxury condo for offshore investment and plan to travel back and forth frequently, having a well connected airport is much more convenient. Another reason is that people like to purchase in areas where there are already networks of your home country. LA and SF already have large Chinese populations, Chinese language media, etc. NYC has large immigrant populations from all over the world, and Miami is a huge draw for Latin America. These cities also have consulates for many countries, while the only formal consulate in SD is the Mexican consulate in Little Italy. Don't get me wrong, SD is slowly changing. Walking around downtown I hear many people speaking Chinese, German, etc. The people are definitely coming here to visit, and I think eventually we may see some international investment in the downtown market but the city needs to reach out and advocate for this otherwise why would someone, for example, from China choose SD over LA to invest in when LA is so much more established as a hub for overseas Chinese with a large network in place. LA, SF, NYC, Miami have realtors and real estate agencies who specialize in overseas buyers and have networks in the home countries to recruit buyers. Don't think SD has anything like this yet.

I really think that if the Ritz Carlton Hotel/Condo project goes up with a Whole Foods there it will help with this regard. That's the type of high-end, high-profile project that elevates the profile of our city and attracts wealthy foreign investors.

[SDCAL]

Mello, you were asking about the height of whatever will be going up at 7th and Market. I found some documents on Civic SD that had Q&A and found this:

QUESTION: What are the minimum and maximum building heights for the sites?

RESPONSE: Each site must contain a building with a minimum height of 300 feet per the requirements of this RFQ/P. Buildings cannot exceed a maximum height of 500 feet above mean sea level, which is the FAA height limit for Downtown, resulting in maximum heights of approximately 440-450 feet above grade for the Park and Market site and 460-470 feet above grade for the Seventh and Market site. Please note that the Park and Market site is also subject to the Public Park Sun Access height limits shown in Figures F and M of the CCPDO.

I know we've spent a lot of time on this forum bitching about the FAA height limit downtown, but I have to vent again. We are going through a huge boom right now downtown, and we are beginning to build on key vacant lots. If nobody challenges this height limit I'm afraid our city will be permanently locked-in to this stubby plateau skyline.

[SDfan]

Pardon my ignorance, but what's the difference between a streetcar line and a trolley line?

They need a trolley line up Park to Hillcrest/North Park with a stop at Balboa Park on the way. It would be really inept planning to just put a line to Balboa Park without extending a stop up to the Hillcrest/North Park area.

San Diego is home to inept planning, look at Mission Valley and think about that again, Lolz.

As for the difference, street cars tend to be smaller, shorter, allow for regular vehicle traffic to share lanes, and operate more like buses than trains. Whereas the trolley in San Diego is light rail, which has exclusive dedicated lanes, platform stations, and are larger and longer overall. Streetcars would be ideal in places like the uptown neighborhoods because they would be less impactful on surface streets and thoroughfares.

I have to speculate though, and say, I can't imagine light rail being approved on University Ave or El Cajon Blvd, unless they're placed underground. They just killed bike lanes in University over parking, and nixed dedicated bus lanes on El Cajon Blvd over the same reason, - imagine SANDAG trying to convince community planners to get rid of even more space for light rail. Plus the fight over the overhead electricity lines would be epic. In a city where aesthetics are king... yikes.

Also, here is a pic of a typical, modern streetcar:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/Portland.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/Portland.jpg.html)

In comparison to our "trolley" (light rail):
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/SD_Trolley_Green_Line.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/SD_Trolley_Green_Line.jpg.html)

Not a seemingly huge difference, but substantial nonetheless.

[mello]

SDCAL: good explanation about foreign buyers and obviously Toronto is the market of choice for Indians who are becoming a huge player in real estate as well. You would think an RE agency locally would try to hire mandarin or Russian speakers to begin to chip away at LA and bring people a bit south.

FAA: what is the deal with "mean sea level" that is draconian horse shit that Faulconer and developers should fight. You mean we can't even build a damn 500 foot tower you have to lop off the measily 40 feet above the bay where 7th and Market sits come on... This is so frustrating. Market st. is well south of the flight path a true 600 ft structure there would be absolutely no hazard to incoming aircraft.

[Nerv]

Based on what I've seen the airport line would be a trolley extension where as MTS is looking in to something along the current silver line street car we have in the city right now for Balboa Park.


My experience with both sandag and MTS is they try a listen to the communities concerns and fix what they can but in the end they do what they feel is best for the cities transit system regardless.

The original Coaster line is a good example of cities not getting everything they wanted and in the case of Del Mar they got exactly what they were asking for along with the middle finger from sandag who turns up a deaf ear every time the thought of a transit station being returned to Del Mar is brought up. Lol


The widening of the 5 to Oceanside is one of the better examples of sandag telling the communities something's going to happen so pick your options. That doesn't always happen and I give them kudos for allowing that much involvement from the locals (even though they haven't finished much of it yet).


Either way both would be smart projects in my mind. I'm surprised we don't already have lines like these to two key areas of the city.

[Nerv]

San Diego is home to inept planning, look at Mission Valley and think about that again, Lolz.

As for the difference, street cars tend to be smaller, shorter, allow for regular vehicle traffic to share lanes, and operate more like buses than trains. Whereas the trolley in San Diego is light rail, which has exclusive dedicated lanes, platform stations, and are larger and longer overall. Streetcars would be ideal in places like the uptown neighborhoods because they would be less impactful on surface streets and thoroughfares.

I have to speculate though, and say, I can't imagine light rail being approved on University Ave or El Cajon Blvd, unless they're placed underground. They just killed bike lanes in University over parking, and nixed dedicated bus lanes on El Cajon Blvd over the same reason, - imagine SANDAG trying to convince community planners to get rid of even more space for light rail. Plus the fight over the overhead electricity lines would be epic. In a city where aesthetics are king... yikes.

Also, here is a pic of a typical, modern streetcar:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/Portland.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/Portland.jpg.html)

In comparison to our "trolley" (light rail):
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/SD_Trolley_Green_Line.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/SD_Trolley_Green_Line.jpg.html)

Not a seemingly huge difference, but substantial nonetheless.




I would add there is a look and feel in difference when riding the two (OK, that's just my opinion) :)


When I've taken the trolley I have a bit of that euro feel of getting from point A to B.

Those silver line street cars (we have two different ones now) are a sweet ride in the past and a great way to spend a lazy afternoon in the city. I really hope they continue to add more cars and expand the line.

Then of coarse we do have real trains with the Coaster and Sprinter if that's your cup of tea....:tup: