SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[spoonman]

I like it because it has personality(not because its attractive), unlike many of the buildings we've seen lately. It reminds me of the old Sands tower in vegas from the rat pack days. If it was a hotel, I'd stay there...too bad it's condos...lol. The same architect did Emerald Plaza which gives this project a big boost in terms of credibility and follow through. I hope they don't change it too much but I'd like to see what they do with it.

[spoonman]

BTW, does anyone know the total height? It's supposed to be 40 floors..

[sandiego_urban]

^^ According to CCDC, but it could change after revision:

Shapery Park Tower (12th and A Hotel Partners) – Centre City Development Permit for a 39-story (407 feet) building with 138 residential units and approximately 2,500 square feet of commercial space located at the northeast corner of Eleventh Avenue and A Street. This project is pending completion of revised drawings – Core.



FYI - The ocean water temps are in the low 70's these days. I'm heading to the beach now and so should all of you - SURF'S UP!!! :)

[Dale]

The current design would look good in, say, Cairo.

[spoonman]

Looks like we may be getting yet another Marriott. I pulled this article from CCDC http://www.ccdc.com/events/resources/Agenda%20-%20Pre-Design%207%2010%2007.pdf

In total this would make 7 Marriotts in DTSD alone. Because this is dubbed a "Convention Hotel" is makes me curious how large it will be.

[bmfarley]

The current design would look good in, say, Cairo.
Or, Bagdad or Tehran. I'd suggest Dubai, but it's too short.

[bmfarley]

Looks like we may be getting yet another Marriott. I pulled this article from CCDC http://www.ccdc.com/events/resources/Agenda%20-%20Pre-Design%207%2010%2007.pdf

In total this would make 7 Marriotts in DTSD alone. Because this is dubbed a "Convention Hotel" is makes me curious how large it will be.This project is very interesting! It's part of the Ballpark Village Master Plan of the area that was worked on by the Padre's owner. Although it's a Marriot Hotel, I am kinda betting it's proposed to be developed by him or his development arm. It should incorporate the ped bridge over Harbor into its design.

[Derek]

Looks like we may be getting yet another Marriott. I pulled this article from CCDC http://www.ccdc.com/events/resources/Agenda%20-%20Pre-Design%207%2010%2007.pdf

In total this would make 7 Marriotts in DTSD alone. Because this is dubbed a "Convention Hotel" is makes me curious how large it will be.

What about the Marriott that's supposed to go up on Fifth?:hell:

[bushman61988]

I like it because it has personality(not because its attractive), unlike many of the buildings we've seen lately. It reminds me of the old Sands tower in vegas from the rat pack days. If it was a hotel, I'd stay there...too bad it's condos...lol. The same architect did Emerald Plaza which gives this project a big boost in terms of credibility and follow through. I hope they don't change it too much but I'd like to see what they do with it.

I completely agree!

I'm tired of these architects half-assin it these days with their balcony-infested, exposed concrete, gray towers. At least here's something different that you dont see anywhere else. And for once, there's an interesting top to the tower...


But i then again, that long "flesh colored vein" definitely needs to be changed some way.

[Derek]

^Along with the base! That's one of the ugliest bases I've seen!

[bmfarley]

^Along the base! That's one of the ugliest bases I've seen!Sometimes I think it is a ploy... propose something ridiculous... and the 2nd effort or replacement will be much more readily accepted. Perhaps that is what is going on here.

[Derek]

Sometimes I think it is a ploy... propose something ridiculous... and the 2nd effort or replacement will be much more readily accepted. Perhaps that is what is going on here.

That makes sense.

[sandiego_urban]

Looks like we may be getting yet another Marriott. I pulled this article from CCDC http://www.ccdc.com/events/resources/Agenda%20-%20Pre-Design%207%2010%2007.pdf

In total this would make 7 Marriotts in DTSD alone. Because this is dubbed a "Convention Hotel" is makes me curious how large it will be.
Does mean the already approved Ballpark Village development is finally going to happen? I hope so.

Don't forget that Marriott has hotels under different names, such as Ritz-Carlton and JW Marriott.




More renderings and info on Shapery Park Tower. Yet another 500' MSL tower to add to the growing plateau. :( On the positive note, there's going to be a rooftop restaurant/bar and observation deck served by a glass elevator, which will be cool. :tup:
http://www.shaperyenterprises.com/

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/realestate31.jpg

From Balboa Park
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/realestate35.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/realestate33.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/realestate34.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/realestate32.jpg



[I]SHAPERY PARK TOWER

Project Description

Shapery Park Tower is a proposed 40 story condominium/hotel and residential tower in downtown San Diego containing 90 hotel/condominium suites, 30 one bedroom condominium suites, 42 two bedroom condominium suites, one penthouse condominium suite, a spa/health club, pool, 40th story restaurant, roof top bar served by a glass elevator, ancillary commercial space and 164 parking spaces located in the project parking garage.

Shapery Park Tower sits on the western half of a substandard block (200’X 108’) bounded by Russ Blvd. on the north, A St. on the south, 11th St. on the west and Park Blvd on the east . It shares the block with a five story historic hotel building that was newly renovated by Mr. Shapery thereby allowing for the transfer of the excess floor area ratio to the Shapery Park Tower. The site is the last private ownership parcel south of Balboa Park and as such is viewed as a city gateway parcel sitting between the downtown core, Balboa Park and at the beginning of the historic Cabrillo highway through the Park.

The building is being developed by Sandor Shapery who previously developed San Diego’s premier mixed use high-rise hotel/office complex, the Emerald Shapery Center which can be recognized by its eight hexagon towers topped with green neon. Mr. Shapery designed the Emerald Shapery Center in conjunction with C.W. Kim Architects who is again joining with Mr. Shapery in the design of this iconic building. Mr. Shapery was also responsible for the design and development of the W Hotel in downtown San Diego.

Mr. Shapery who designed and built the Emerald Shapery Center 16 years ago has been referred to as a futurist having installed many innovations in the Emerald Shapery Center including, openable window mullions for fresh air in every office and hotel room; separate air intakes on each floor at the north side of the building to lower the temperature gradient, save energy and reduce the amount of ionized air in the air distribution ducts; the hexagon design allowed for a greater percentage of view windows per square foot of floor space along with the standardization of every exterior window and building frame component. San Diego’s most efficient air conditioning ice storage system enables the Emerald Shapery Center to reduce its air conditioning electric costs by 70% while the laundry water recycling program paid for itself in 36 months.

The Shapery Park Tower will contain these innovations and more as it is being designed to be the most energy efficient high-rise condominium/hotel and residential tower in the region. Every part of the Shapery Park Tower is being designed with quality of life, energy efficiency, environmental sensitivity and sustainability issues given primary concern.

Many internal building systems are being designed to minimize initial costs and reduce operating costs by utilizing the systems for multiple functions. Examples include utilizing the cooling tower fans to exhaust the parking garage; capturing the building air conditioning condensation water for use in the laundry, swimming pool, fire water storage system and irrigation. Additionally the projects water features are being designed to function as cooling towers for the air-conditioning system. Photovoltaic glass will be installed on the south side building balconies to reduce each tenant’s electrical requirements.

In addition to the many innovations, the building is being built pursuant to the highest standards set by the U.S. Green Building Council LEED certification program.

DETAILED PROJECT DESCRIPTION

The Shapery Park Tower contains forty stories above grade and 4 stories below grade for a total building height of 500 feet above the mean high tide line in the San Diego bay; the maximum building height allowed in downtown San Diego. The project rises 409 feet above the lowest grade on the site with the parcel containing 10,840.5 square feet. The tower sits on the top of the parking pedestal which covers most of the site and contains the lobby, ancillary commercial uses and parking. The Tower will be constructed out of concrete and is designed in the shape of a three leaf clover with each peddle and accompanying core being identical allowing for all of the construction forming to be the same. The organic design of the Shapery Park Tower is symbolic of the environmental aspects of the project.

PARKING

The project has 7 floors of parking. Three levels above grade and 4 levels below grade.

The 4 levels of underground parking contain 86 standard sized parking stalls and 16 compact spaces for a total of 102 spaces below grade. The entrance and exit to the underground parking is located on Russ Blvd.

There are three levels of above grade parking in the pedestal of the building, being levels 3 through 5 containing 52 standard sized spaces and 10 compact spaces for a total of 62 above grade parking spaces. When combined with the underground parking spaces there are a total of 164 parking spaces- 138 standard parking spaces and 26 substandard parking spaces. The entrance and exit to and from the above grade parking is accessed by a driveway between the tower pedestal and the Historic hotel located on the adjacent parcel entering on A Street and exiting on Russ Blvd.

The hotel lobby is two stories tall measured from the entrance on the corner of 11th and A Street. The lower lobby level is connected to the drive-in entrance and upper lobby level by a set of escalators separated by two water falls integrated into the air conditioning cooling system as mentioned above.

HOTEL/ CONDOMINIUM AMENITIES

On the 6th level of the building pedestal above the parking is the back-of-the-house hotel operations system, including house keeping, laundry, security, storage and mechanical systems.

There are three elevators that serve all of the parking and lobby levels, two of which are passenger elevators and one freight elevator running from the p-4 level to the pool deck and spa located on the 7th floor. A second freight elevator begins at the back of the house on the 6th level and runs to the roof. The tower is also served by one glass elevator and two passenger elevators.

The seventh floor, which is the top of the building’s pedestal, contains the swimming pool, pool deck, jacuzzi, health spa, hotel administrative offices, parking elevators, glass elevator, and tower elevators.

The eighth floor which is the first floor of the tower contains two ballroom/meeting rooms containing 1084 square feet each, an 810 square foot kitchen/pantry and a prefunction area containing 760 square feet along with two balconies containing 170 square feet.

The 9th through the 19th floors of the tower contain 9 units per floor for a total of 90 hotel condominium units ranging in size from 375 to 480 square feet most with balconies of 85 square feet each.

[sandiego_urban]

^^Continuation of description above....


The 20th through the 24th floors of the tower contain 6 one bedroom condominium units per floor for a total of 30 one bedroom condominium units from 612 to 644 square feet, one and three quarter baths with full kitchens, and containing balconies of 85 square feet each.


The 25th through the 38th floor contain 3 two bedroom two and one half bath condominium units per floor for a total of 42 two bedroom two and one half bath condominiums ranging in size from 1284 to 1292 square feet each containing balconies which range in size from 176 to 255. Two of the three condominiums on each floor have keyed elevators opening directly into the unit’s living room.

Beginning at the 37th floor and continuing to the top of the building each units’ balconies project outward and increase from 420 square feet, out to 584, and 594, square feet respectively.

The 39th floor contains the penthouse condominium containing a total of 4345 square feet of living space with three balconies containing 1782 square each.

The 40th story is a restaurant and lounge containing 3886 square feet of interior space and two outdoor balconies containing 2268 square feet.

Above the restaurant is the roof-top bar and observatory topped out with back lit canvas petals.[/I]

[bmfarley]

:previous: In no uncertain terms do I like parking in a tower that is above grade. All of it should be below grade with ground level retail or commercail with accessible areas for the public. With ground level parkign in a tower I can just hear the sucking noise....sssssssssssssssssssssucking hte energy out of the area.

[keg92101]

:previous: In no uncertain terms do I like parking in a tower that is above grade. All of it should be below grade with ground level retail or commercail with accessible areas for the public. With ground level parkign in a tower I can just hear the sucking noise....sssssssssssssssssssssucking hte energy out of the area.

The parking will probably be levels 2-4, similar to Hotel Solamar.

[sandiegodweller]

What about the Marriott that's supposed to go up on Fifth?:hell:


3 years after land was taken, it's being used as parking lot
By Jeanette Steele
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

June 24, 2007

DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO – Construction costs are skyrocketing, a court fight is dragging along, and three years after a Gaslamp Quarter cigar shop was condemned to make way for a hotel, the site is being used as a parking lot.


EDUARDO CONTRERAS / Union-Tribune
The Gran Havana cigar shop on J Street between Fifth and Sixth avenues was condemned to make way for a hotel, but the site is a parking lot today.
Now the developer of a proposed Marriott Renaissance is asking San Diego's downtown redevelopment agency for another extension.

Under the current agreement, excavation of the site should have started in January and the hotel should be completed by September 2008. The company now proposes to bring in the backhoes in May and finish the hotel in July 2010.

The Centre City Development Corp. will consider the request at a meeting Wednesday. The downtown redevelopment agency, which took the Gran Havana cigar shop in a controversial decision in 2004, has been unhappy about the delay.

Shop owner Ahmad Mesdaq's appeal of the eminent domain action still is pending in court. So is the agency's appeal of a judge and jury's $9.1 million award to Mesdaq. Oral arguments in both cases start July 17.

The developer blames the delay on that litigation and the chilling effect of Proposition 90, the failed 2006 ballot measure that might have limited the city's condemnation powers.

Now the developer, GRH LLC, wants to lease the whole project to an Anaheim-based company, Hansji Hotels, that is building a hotel across the street. GRH wants help with spiraling project costs, which went from $70 million in April 2004 to $108 million today.
“We are all committed to proceeding with the project as expeditiously as possible,” said Cynthia Eldred, attorney for GRH, which is managed by Ramin Samimi of San Diego.

Samimi's firm wants a nearly two-year extension on the construction timeline dictated by the downtown agency. It would be the second extension, agency officials said.

Mesdaq calls these requests unfair.

“It's just a very sad fact when a government entity takes property for a private developer so he can flip it and make a big sum of money,” he said.

Mesdaq, 36, said he tried reopening his cigar shop in September 2006 at another Gaslamp Quarter address, but business never came around and he closed in January.

Mesdaq, a Scripps Ranch resident, said he plans to use his settlement money to open another business in the Gaslamp.

Eldred disputed that this is a case of “flipping” a project, as GRH would maintain ownership of the land while Hansji Hotels would build and operate the hotel.

She also said the proposed lease doesn't allow her client to cash in. Under the deal with Hansji, she said, GRH takes a hit on expected earnings both now and in the future.

The company already has spent $23 million on the project.

The site is on J Street between Fifth and Sixth avenues. Mesdaq owned 5,000 square feet of the 40,000-square-foot parcel that is slated to become a four-star Marriott Renaissance hotel with 334 rooms.

GRH originally wanted to build the hotel on a different downtown site that it owned, but that land was condemned for what became Petco Park.

Mesdaq bought his property in 2000 and, combined with renovations he had made, sunk about $2.5 million into the former warehouse, turning the site into a showcase.

The city long has maintained that Mesdaq knew the hotel proposal was coming when he purchased the land. He says he didn't learn of it until he was in escrow.

Mesdaq refused offers to sell and went to court to stop the condemnation. He argued that taking his land and handing it to a private party did not amount to a “public use.”

In recent years, governments have used eminent domain powers for “economic development,” arguing that the tax revenue and jobs that private developers bring ultimately benefit the public. City redevelopment officials argued that the hotel would provide much-needed property and hotel-room tax revenue and hotel rooms to serve the Convention Center.

The cigar shop was demolished. The land is being used now as a pay parking lot, with the revenue going to the developer and the downtown agency.

[sandiegodweller]

This project is very interesting! It's part of the Ballpark Village Master Plan of the area that was worked on by the Padre's owner. Although it's a Marriott Hotel, I am kinda betting it's proposed to be developed by him or his development arm. It should incorporate the ped bridge over Harbor into its design.
Most hotel buildings are privately owned. The building owners negotiate with a hotel operator (Hyatt, Hilton, Marriott, etc.) to manage the building and put their "flag" on it.

For example, Doug Manchester owns both the Harbor Marriott and the Manchester Grand Hyatt buildings. He has contracts with 2 different hotel chains to "flag" his buildings.

The new Hilton is owned by a group with Joseph Phelps (Hensel Phelps/Phelps Winery) out of Denver. Hilton is just the operator.

http://www.portofsandiego.org/projects/hiltonhotel/

There is already a pedestrian bridge planned across Harbor. It is $3 million over budget in the planning stages. I guarantee that you won't get 2 different bridges. The new Hilton will be pushing for completion ASAP. A new Marriott at Ballpark Village would help amortize the cost overruns for the bridge.

[bmfarley]

Most hotel buildings are privately owned. The building owners negotiate with a hotel operator (Hyatt, Hilton, Marriott, etc.) to manage the building and put their "flag" on it.

For example, Doug Manchester owns both the Harbor Marriott and the Manchester Grand Hyatt buildings. He has contracts with 2 different hotel chains to "flag" his buildings.

The new Hilton is owned by a group with Joseph Phelps (Hensel Phelps/Phelps Winery) out of Denver. Hilton is just the operator.

http://www.portofsandiego.org/projects/hiltonhotel/

There is already a pedestrian bridge planned across Harbor. It is $3 million over budget in the planning stages. I guarantee that you won't get 2 different bridges. The new Hilton will be pushing for completion ASAP. A new Marriott at Ballpark Village would help amortize the cost overruns for the bridge.Yeah, I was not suggesting a 2nd bridge and already knew of the first. I believe I saw renderings of that ped bridge built into the design of the structures at the southeast corner of Imperial and Park... maybe it was the Ballpark Master Plan that I saw that in (?). Either way, the ped bridge going in lands immediately adjacent to the proposed hotel on SE corner of Imperial and Park.

[spoonman]

I believe that this Marriott proposal will be a good barometer in terms of how the "ballpark village" will develop. If the design for the Marriott is sprawling like the Hilton, we'll know that the city has given up on the ballpark village master plan. If the project looks dense and like a piece of a puzzle, I think we'll be ok.

[sandiego_urban]

:previous: In no uncertain terms do I like parking in a tower that is above grade. All of it should be below grade with ground level retail or commercail with accessible areas for the public. With ground level parkign in a tower I can just hear the sucking noise....sssssssssssssssssssssucking hte energy out of the area.
I can't argue with you here. Towers set on podiums are just hideous. It's funny that a few posts earlier, I had mentioned how happy I was that downtown hasn't been getting any parking structure bases, then lo and behold, we get one here. Even NBC was redesigned to put all parking underground.

I just hope CCDC forces the developer to redesign the base (as well as some exterior detail) before this project receives approval.


I believe that this Marriott proposal will be a good barometer in terms of how the "ballpark village" will develop. If the design for the Marriott is sprawling like the Hilton, we'll know that the city has given up on the ballpark village master plan. If the project looks dense and like a piece of a puzzle, I think we'll be ok.
Good point. We can only hope that it will be more urban in design, instead of resort-style (like their current Marriott along the bay). Hopefully, the BV masterplan will remain in place so that it maximizes the land use. If it takes years to complete, then so be it.

That it's being called the Marriott Convention Hotel, makes me think it will be a major developent.

[sandiego_urban]

It appears The Diegan aka The Setai San Diego, is headed for full-scale hotel status instead of being a condo-hotel.




The Market For Condo Hybrids Is Trending Down, Experts Say

By Penni Crabtree
SAN DIEGO UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

July 8, 2007

As one of the hot new hybrids – part condominium, part hotel – The Diegan, along with a handful of local projects, aims to reshape tourism and the luxury condo market.

Developers began embracing the condo-hotel concept in the late 1990s when financing for conventional hotels became difficult. By preselling units before construction, developers were able to obtain loans and other investor money more easily for high-end hotel projects.

Buyers, who own the units but occupy them only a fraction of the year, could also benefit because a condo-hotel allowed them to cover part of their costs by collecting some of the revenue generated by hotel guests who use the room.

Yet some real estate experts say the market for condo-hotels has changed, tracking a similar downturn in the traditional condo market. In San Diego, sales in May of resale condos were down 16.6 percent from May 2006 and down 53.5 percent from their peak pace in April 2004, according to DataQuick Information Systems. The median condo price in San Diego was off almost 4 percent from May 2006 to May 2007.

“The condo-hotel investment market has cooled off, just like the residential market has cooled off,” said Gary London, president of San Diego's London Group Realty Advisors, a real estate consulting and feasibility firm. “I haven't seen the concept be successful except in the very best of locations.”

High-profile condo-hotel projects in San Diego include downtown's Hard Rock Hotel and Hotel del Coronado's Beach Village villas, both of which are under construction.

The Diegan, slated for completion later this year, recently acquired its branded operator – New York-based The Setai Group – and will change its name to Setai San Diego, according to a news item posted Monday in the online edition of the San Diego Business Journal.

Nick D'Annunzio of Tara Ink, which is handling publicity for The Diegan, said Tuesday that an official announcement will be released tomorrow. The Setai Group, a development firm that specializes in luxury residential and boutique hotels, did not return telephone calls.

Whether The Diegan remains a condo-hotel project remains uncertain, according to stakeholders in 5th Avenue Partners, the company that is developing the property.

Steve Rebeil, majority partner in 5th Avenue Partners, testified last month in a court case that the condo portion of the condo-hotel will likely be scrapped because of poor market conditions.

Derek Clark, another partner in 5th Avenue, said last month that the local condo market has become “aggressively downgraded in pricing” and that consultants “are telling us that it is probably better to run it as a hotel.”

“I don't know where this will play out,” Clark said. “We will let the market determine that.”

The Diegan's rooms, suites and penthouses, ranging from 400 to 2,700 square feet, are being marketed in the $400,000s to $3.8 million range.

The residential units will boast 10-foot ceilings and interiors constructed from imported stone, marble, exotic woods and art glass, according to a recent news release. The hotel will have a restaurant, spa, fitness center, pool and the House of Blues music club.

Gina Champion-Cane, a San Diego developer who proposed the House of Blues/Diegan complex in 1998, said The Diegan is a good project that captures the imagination and financing.

And she credits Rebeil with the moxie to finish what she couldn't.

“Development is a very tricky, bizarre business and, frankly, developers are not the nicest of people,” Champion-Cane said. “It really took a cowboy and entrepreneur like Rebeil. I don't think any of this would have happened without him.”

Champion-Cane originally proposed a project that included the House of Blues, a small condo complex and a parking garage. But the project became mired in regulatory and financing issues, as well as problems with her then-partner Stanley Hanson, who later brought in Rebeil.

In 2001, Champion-Cane and Hanson had a legal dispute over the project, which ended in a settlement. The former partners declined to comment, and the Orange County Superior Court case file was destroyed.

[Derek]

3 years after land was taken, it's being used as parking lot
By Jeanette Steele
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

June 24, 2007

DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO – Construction costs are skyrocketing, a court fight is dragging along, and three years after a Gaslamp Quarter cigar shop was condemned to make way for a hotel, the site is being used as a parking lot.


EDUARDO CONTRERAS / Union-Tribune
The Gran Havana cigar shop on J Street between Fifth and Sixth avenues was condemned to make way for a hotel, but the site is a parking lot today.
Now the developer of a proposed Marriott Renaissance is asking San Diego's downtown redevelopment agency for another extension.

Under the current agreement, excavation of the site should have started in January and the hotel should be completed by September 2008. The company now proposes to bring in the backhoes in May and finish the hotel in July 2010.

The Centre City Development Corp. will consider the request at a meeting Wednesday. The downtown redevelopment agency, which took the Gran Havana cigar shop in a controversial decision in 2004, has been unhappy about the delay.

Shop owner Ahmad Mesdaq's appeal of the eminent domain action still is pending in court. So is the agency's appeal of a judge and jury's $9.1 million award to Mesdaq. Oral arguments in both cases start July 17.

The developer blames the delay on that litigation and the chilling effect of Proposition 90, the failed 2006 ballot measure that might have limited the city's condemnation powers.

Now the developer, GRH LLC, wants to lease the whole project to an Anaheim-based company, Hansji Hotels, that is building a hotel across the street. GRH wants help with spiraling project costs, which went from $70 million in April 2004 to $108 million today.
“We are all committed to proceeding with the project as expeditiously as possible,” said Cynthia Eldred, attorney for GRH, which is managed by Ramin Samimi of San Diego.

Samimi's firm wants a nearly two-year extension on the construction timeline dictated by the downtown agency. It would be the second extension, agency officials said.

Mesdaq calls these requests unfair.

“It's just a very sad fact when a government entity takes property for a private developer so he can flip it and make a big sum of money,” he said.

Mesdaq, 36, said he tried reopening his cigar shop in September 2006 at another Gaslamp Quarter address, but business never came around and he closed in January.

Mesdaq, a Scripps Ranch resident, said he plans to use his settlement money to open another business in the Gaslamp.

Eldred disputed that this is a case of “flipping” a project, as GRH would maintain ownership of the land while Hansji Hotels would build and operate the hotel.

She also said the proposed lease doesn't allow her client to cash in. Under the deal with Hansji, she said, GRH takes a hit on expected earnings both now and in the future.

The company already has spent $23 million on the project.

The site is on J Street between Fifth and Sixth avenues. Mesdaq owned 5,000 square feet of the 40,000-square-foot parcel that is slated to become a four-star Marriott Renaissance hotel with 334 rooms.

GRH originally wanted to build the hotel on a different downtown site that it owned, but that land was condemned for what became Petco Park.

Mesdaq bought his property in 2000 and, combined with renovations he had made, sunk about $2.5 million into the former warehouse, turning the site into a showcase.

The city long has maintained that Mesdaq knew the hotel proposal was coming when he purchased the land. He says he didn't learn of it until he was in escrow.

Mesdaq refused offers to sell and went to court to stop the condemnation. He argued that taking his land and handing it to a private party did not amount to a “public use.”

In recent years, governments have used eminent domain powers for “economic development,” arguing that the tax revenue and jobs that private developers bring ultimately benefit the public. City redevelopment officials argued that the hotel would provide much-needed property and hotel-room tax revenue and hotel rooms to serve the Convention Center.

The cigar shop was demolished. The land is being used now as a pay parking lot, with the revenue going to the developer and the downtown agency.

That's just bullshit. Build the damn thing already, you are the one that wanted the site in the first place.

[mongoXZ]

Another Marriott in downtown? That plus the proposal for the Nickelodeon/Marriott resort near the airport and it seems like these guys have a hard-on for San Diego!

I'm kind of dreading the idea that the proposed Marriott will resemble the mega hotels on Harbor: Tacky, no consideration for the urbanity on its streets, large parking garages. I'm hoping that's not the case.

[bushman61988]

IMO i think you guys are complaining WAY too much about the Shapery Park Tower.

Sure, the design is a little odd, and there's above ground parking, but at least they tried to hide with glass and some of that weird exterior. Plus, it's something different! It's so NICE to have something DIFFERENT for once, and like someone said earlier, having this being built by the architect who made the Emerald Plaza definitely gives him some credibility. Plus, you got a rooftop restaraunt at one of the best locations possible, LEED certified, AND a glass elevator! (i'm sorry, but to me, that's really cool)


C'mon guys, AT LEAST the architect is trying to make something decent for San Diego and isn't half-assin the design like so many towers out there (to name a few The Mark, Allegro Tower, the Legend, Fahrenheit, Cortez Blu).
LIGHTEN UP!!

[SDCAL]

Another Marriott in downtown? That plus the proposal for the Nickelodeon/Marriott resort near the airport and it seems like these guys have a hard-on for San Diego!

I'm kind of dreading the idea that the proposed Marriott will resemble the mega hotels on Harbor: Tacky, no consideration for the urbanity on its streets, large parking garages. I'm hoping that's not the case.

As a previous poster noted, marriott has some very nice properties under their umbrella. I just visited 2 JW Marriott hotels overseas and they are very, very nice city-oriented hotels that generally include at least 3-4 nice restaurants and nightlife on-site and incorporate local flavor to integrate the properties and make them unique to the destination. They are also very popular for business and convention travellers who prefer a higher-end hotel that has 5 star service

if the proposal is for another regular Marriott I say to Marriott to stay away becasue we have too many, but if it's a JW Marriott I say welcome because they are very distinct from other Marriotts

[SDCAL]

Chula Vists's loss is dissapointing, but look at it this way - - the addition of a convention center there was being touted as possible competition for SD's convention center. Maybe developers will invest more into attracting and maybe expanding (if there is any room???) our downtown convention center since it's obvious the surrounding cities are unable to lure investment. Even though our CC seems large, it is still not big enough to hold mega-sized conventions that would probably go to LA

[SDCAL]

ABOUT UNIONS

Our conservative-slanting media is making the pullout from Chula Vista of the project seem like the fault of the Unions, that is simply not ture. San Diego's union force is minute compared to other cities such as Chicago, yet mega-projects have no problem getting off the gound there.
THIS IS SOLELY THE FAULT OF THE LOCAL CHULA VISTA GOVERNMENT, STARTING WITH THE MAYOR
If these government officials had ANY skill at all and were doing their job, they would have mediated and arrange compromise between the union and developer. This is common practice in all big cities, and they failed. It is really sad that our red-neck nazi media outlets slant the stories to put the entire failure on the unions, and none on the localgovernment

[SDCAL]

I believe that this Marriott proposal will be a good barometer in terms of how the "ballpark village" will develop. If the design for the Marriott is sprawling like the Hilton, we'll know that the city has given up on the ballpark village master plan. If the project looks dense and like a piece of a puzzle, I think we'll be ok.

This is the problem, we shouldn't have to wait to see how it will look, we should be able to ge this information BEFORE it's built and as a citizen of the ballpark area I am pissed off at how hard it is to get information on what's going on around me and the status of projects. Sure the ccdc website is nice and packed with info, but it only includes what they want you to know and leaves plenty out. there is a layer of secrecy surrounding a large-portion of downtown's development that residents can't access. going to the CCDC office and calling developers you get air-heads that can't answer anything. We shouldn't have to wait and see if this building will look like a "piece of a puzzle", we should know if this is part of the master-plan now, or if they have abandoned the master plan and are just going to let things be built piecemeal, which means the neighborhood will end up looking like shit.

[bushman61988]

Chula Vists's loss is dissapointing, but look at it this way - - the addition of a convention center there was being touted as possible competition for SD's convention center. Maybe developers will invest more into attracting and maybe expanding (if there is any room???) our downtown convention center since it's obvious the surrounding cities are unable to lure investment. Even though our CC seems large, it is still not big enough to hold mega-sized conventions that would probably go to LA

That's so sad, but it definitely isn't just the unions fault, but the inability of the city government (especially that mayor of Chula Vista, Where the f*** was she in all this, and why didn't she do more than go on vacation and complain about how she wished an agreement could be met).



On a different note, it looks like on the CCDC website, they posted the design review or planned design review that's suppose to be going on this Wednesday for that Marriot Convention Hotel we're heaing about. By the way, i read some of the review and was VERY disappointed to hear the towers they were proposing weren't 500 feet or more (487 feet in two towers). Let's just hope the design is something fresh.


I really want to go to this design review to catch a glimpse of the towers, but where would i go?

[Marina_Guy]

ABOUT UNIONS

Our conservative-slanting media is making the pullout from Chula Vista of the project seem like the fault of the Unions, that is simply not ture. San Diego's union force is minute compared to other cities such as Chicago, yet mega-projects have no problem getting off the gound there.
THIS IS SOLELY THE FAULT OF THE LOCAL CHULA VISTA GOVERNMENT, STARTING WITH THE MAYOR
If these government officials had ANY skill at all and were doing their job, they would have mediated and arrange compromise between the union and developer. This is common practice in all big cities, and they failed. It is really sad that our red-neck nazi media outlets slant the stories to put the entire failure on the unions, and none on the localgovernment

fully agree. It you are going to hand out a $300 million dollar subsidy you better know what you are doing and who you are dealing with. Gaylord is no friend to California. They just tried to find the most 'business friendly' 'city' on the California coast for their venture. Obviously, $300 million wasn't friendly enough.

[ucsbgaucho]

So.... Gaylord + $1 billion + Chargers = New stadium/convention center at the Qualcomm site?! C'mon! The Chargers were looking for a developer with that kind of cash to invest... now they have it....

[SDCAL]

came accross this on the net, wonder what if anything came from the meeting

CALL TO ACTION Issued by Airport Authority

Source: San Diego County Regional Airport Authority
Date: April 27, 2007


LUFTHANSA PROGRAM: CALL TO ACTION

The San Diego County Regional Airport Authority will meet with Lufthansa airlines in late May to make a business case for San Diego as a hub for their airline operation. The Airport Authority requests information from San Diego County organizations and corporations in advance of this initial meeting with Lufthansa.

Nonstop international air service has great economic impact on the regions that enjoy such service. For instance, the city of Phoenix estimates their flight to London adds $238 million in annual economic impact. The city of Portland, Oregon estimates their flight to Frankfurt adds $90 million in annual economic impact. San Diego, as the single largest US city without nonstop service to Europe, is at a distinct disadvantage in attracting this valuable international economic activity. In fact, many San Diego businesses lose precious hours of worker productivity by connecting their staff or customers over other hubs or worse having them spend the day driving to LAX.

Unlike prior European service to San Diego, a Lufthansa flight would enjoy full frequent flyer reciprocity with the United Airlines Mileage Plus® and USAirways Dividend Miles program. Additionally, the flight would likely have a United Airlines flight number making the service available to San Diego-based corporations, government and defense contractors, who must use domestic service providers under the “Fly America” federal regulations. A Lufthansa service would therefore be able to attract from a wider pool of potential business travelers.

Your Support is Needed to Make the Business Case

In advance of a late May meeting, the Airport Authority needs to demonstrate to Lufthansa the willingness of key San Diego County institutions and corporations to support a potential service by the airline to San Diego. In order to be successful at this initial meeting, the Airport Authority requests a letter of support from the CEO (or highest ranking San Diego-based executive) of your member corporations by May 15th. For your reference a sample letter can be provided. Please contact Mr. Hampton Brown (see below) for this sample letter or for more information.

While initially a letter of support would be useful, if the discussions progress, the airline will likely ask the San Diego community for more firm commitments prior to launching service. An example of future commitments may entail pledges to spend a portion of your organization’s Europe travel budget on the potential nonstop flight.

Contact:

Mr. Hampton Brown
Manager, Route Service Development
San Diego County Regional Airport Authority
P.O. Box 82776
San Diego, CA 92138-2776
619-400-2876
via e-mail / pdf: hbrown@san.org

If you have any questions regarding this request, please contact Mr. Hampton Brown, Manager of Route Service Development at 619-400-2876 or hbrown@san.org.

[Derek]

So what kind of plane would they use? I'm glad Lufthansa is looking at San Diego though.

[Derek]

If Shapery Park submerges all of it's parking, I might consider liking it more. ;)

[Derek]

Do the cargo trains that run straight through the middle of downtown, cutting off traffic flow and creating a ton of un-necessary noise piss anybody else off?

I propose submerging them, right under where the current tracks are, replacing the above ground rail with more trees, shrubery or a nice little flower garden, it could'nt hurt.

[mello]

Wow lots of activity (or inactivity CV bayfront) and great ideas going on right now. About the Gaylord/Chargers issue. I think these two should really team up on a site be it CV bayfront, Mission Valley, or Tenth Ave marine terminal with possible Arena there as well.

Ok list of VASTLY UNDERUSED Metro SD sites

1. CV and National City Bayfront
2. Qualcomm Stadium Site
3. Sports Arena Site
4. Tenth Ave. Marine Terminal
5. Obviously land on PCH and Harbor downtown but plans are moving ahead
6. Fiesta Island Mission Bay
7. Shity Trailor Park/Mobile Home Park on East Mission Bay

Here is an idea I know locals and environmentals will go ape shit over but here it is: Fiesta Island -- Hotel, luxury condos, Chargers Stadium, and possible arena if there is room. You get Gaylord and Spanos and maybe Ernie Hahn and his cronies to invest. Build a huge freeway offramp from I-5 directly into Fiesta Island.

What do you guys think. Centrally located, views, beaches, parks etc?? Might work... But would be HUGE NIMBY fight lol!

[jesseasi]

I have been quickly browsing through the thousands of posts here on the site and while most of the discussion has to do with new high rises and the growth of San Diego – a few of you live in condos and have good feel for the market. If my post is not appropriate for this forum – please excuse this question.

I am in the market to buy a condo and have a unit on reserve at the Legend. I have until this weekend to decide if I am going to buy it or let it go.

My main fear in investing in a condo like this are:

1. HOA Fees – they seem super high – but not just here – most everywhere HOA fees are going to be $500+. That money that is not tax deductible and if you are not taking advantage of the property – it is down the toilet.

2. Prospectors – the Legend will start closing their units this fall. Would it be wise to buy a unit right now at full price or wait till there is a flood of prospectors trying to unload their units. I am sure many of the buyers got in super early have great prices locked in. Taking a cool quick 10-20% profit might be a chance for me to land a better unit at about the same prices I am getting right now.

3. The whole San Diego market in general – every real estate agent I talk to in San Diego tells me prices are going up and up. That “we are past our little correction”. I am not sure I believe them.

My goal in buying a condo is to have a great 2nd home. I live up in LA and San Diego is a great place to visit. I am a season ticket holder for the Chargers and go down there every chance I get. I want something that is unique and special – not the run of the mill condo. I feel like at the legend I am getting an above average unit in a very unique and special building.

Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
(potential new San Diego resident!)

[Derek]

Here is an idea I know locals and environmentals will go ape shit over but here it is: Fiesta Island -- Hotel, luxury condos, Chargers Stadium, and possible arena if there is room. You get Gaylord and Spanos and maybe Ernie Hahn and his cronies to invest. Build a huge freeway offramp from I-5 directly into Fiesta Island.

What do you guys think. Centrally located, views, beaches, parks etc?? Might work... But would be HUGE NIMBY fight lol!

I like! Fiesta Island isn't the greatest of places anyways. A trolley stop could go there too.;)

[SDPhil]

Do not beleive the realtors who tel you prices are going up. I have noticed quite a few of the properties are getting cheaper (the Grande, Little Italy). You might want to hold off for a few months.

[ucsbgaucho]

I like! Fiesta Island isn't the greatest of places anyways. A trolley stop could go there too.;)

I was just thinking the same thing, that since there is a little noise about a new basketball/hockey arena, add that to the development. Turn the Q site into a huge football stadium with adjoining basketball arena, convention center that can be used in conjunction with the arena for big indoor events, hotels, retail and condo. Then you can have two big parking structures for the whole place. You've got trolley access already, lots of land, a developer with money for the football/convention center/hotel part and another for the new sports arena. Pool all those resources together and get it done all at once.

[mello]

^^^ Absolutely Qualcomm has the existing infrastructure, I was just thinking Fiesta Island may be a bit more enticing because of the Bay/Ocean views to be had and the fact there is usable beach front to relax on. But like I said NIMBYS would go bananas if you proposed something big on Fiesta, they want it for their damn dogs and over the line tournaments :rolleyes:

Seriously why not have Spanos/Gaylord/and Anshultz guy who built I believe Staples and the MLS stadium at CSU Dominguez Hills all get in on this. All three are Billionaires, all three have vision. Plus you could maybe have the Clippers play 20 to 30 games a year in a San Diego arena, because I doubt a NBA team would come here. Maybe if Katrina hadn't hit New Orleans the Hornets would move but now that manuever would be frowned upon.

[Derek]

Too bad nobody who has the power to do something about our ideas can't think of them on their own and do something about it.

[mello]

^^^ Well I'm sure Mark Fabiani and his staff (you know who he is write, Chargers guy appointed to find stadium sites) have called every big developer of stadiums, ballparks, arenas, resorts, etc. in North America and probably some in Europe too. Whether or not he has actually met with all of them and thoroughly shown them ideas/plans is another thing.

The problem lies in developing BIG projects in this county, it is just really hard as we have seen time and time again. Look how long Petco and the Convention Center took! Vegas, Miami, Atlanta, and Texas cities seem to be much more adept and pulling off large endeavors.

I do have some connections with Bill Walton's brother (my mother was married to him in the 90's) and I am going to call Bruce and see if he knows Ernie Hahn or Anshultz and maybe he could be a conduit for getting my/our ideas heard.

[Derek]

^Now that's some good connection! ;)

[bmfarley]

I have been quickly browsing through the thousands of posts here on the site and while most of the discussion has to do with new high rises and the growth of San Diego – a few of you live in condos and have good feel for the market. If my post is not appropriate for this forum – please excuse this question.

I am in the market to buy a condo and have a unit on reserve at the Legend. I have until this weekend to decide if I am going to buy it or let it go.

My main fear in investing in a condo like this are:

1. HOA Fees – they seem super high – but not just here – most everywhere HOA fees are going to be $500+. That money that is not tax deductible and if you are not taking advantage of the property – it is down the toilet.

2. Prospectors – the Legend will start closing their units this fall. Would it be wise to buy a unit right now at full price or wait till there is a flood of prospectors trying to unload their units. I am sure many of the buyers got in super early have great prices locked in. Taking a cool quick 10-20% profit might be a chance for me to land a better unit at about the same prices I am getting right now.

3. The whole San Diego market in general – every real estate agent I talk to in San Diego tells me prices are going up and up. That “we are past our little correction”. I am not sure I believe them.

My goal in buying a condo is to have a great 2nd home. I live up in LA and San Diego is a great place to visit. I am a season ticket holder for the Chargers and go down there every chance I get. I want something that is unique and special – not the run of the mill condo. I feel like at the legend I am getting an above average unit in a very unique and special building.

Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
(potential new San Diego resident!)
Don't be suckered in. The market IS falling and likely will for the next 12 to 24 months!!! Count on it. Whn Legend units fall to about $375 per sq ft... on the 10th floor.... that's probably the time to start thinking of jumping in. Add $5 per sqft per additional floor, or -$5 for lower floor.

Here are 2 webites to visit and study up on before you lay down $500,000 for a condo unit (b/c that is still a lot of money):
Housing Bubble Bog (http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/)
San Diego Market Monitor (http://sandiegomarketmonitor.blogspot.com/)
Downtown San Diego Realestate (http://www.sdcondo.com/)

[bmfarley]

Here is an idea I know locals and environmentals will go ape shit over but here it is: Fiesta Island -- Hotel, luxury condos, Chargers Stadium, and possible arena if there is room. You get Gaylord and Spanos and maybe Ernie Hahn and his cronies to invest. Build a huge freeway offramp from I-5 directly into Fiesta Island.

What do you guys think. Centrally located, views, beaches, parks etc?? Might work... But would be HUGE NIMBY fight lol!
I suggested this idea in mid February. It's a dead site with plenty of good views... perfect for a stadium. Northwest of I-8 & I-5 is a perfect spot. It's not big enough for a stadium and related parking areas, but it could push into Mission Bay. And if the shoreline to Fiesta Island were re-aligned a little, the island can be retained and the waterway kept to enable boating access.

It would be a perfect opportunity to also add to the exisitng short list of harbor slips for boats... maybe turned into some mixed-use residential and retail... kinda recreational harborish in nature.

And, parking could be shared with Sea World.

Below is a picture I posted illustrating Qualcomm at the same scale as the discussed portion of Mission bay Park... to point out the similarity of sizes.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/farleybrandon/Misc/StadiumAtSeaWorld.jpg

But, I followed up and researched Mission Bay Park. Apparenlty it is in some type of conservatory or something... securing it's use as a park for the foreseeable future.

[jesseasi]

Don't be suckered in. The market IS falling and likely will for the next 12 to 24 months!!! Count on it. Whn Legend units fall to about $375 per sq ft... on the 10th floor.... that's probably the time to start thinking of jumping in. Add $5 per sqft per additional floor, or -$5 for lower floor.

Here are 2 webites to visit and study up on before you lay down $500,000 for a condo unit (b/c that is still a lot of money):
Housing Bubble Bog (http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/)
San Diego Market Monitor (http://sandiegomarketmonitor.blogspot.com/)
Downtown San Diego Realestate (http://www.sdcondo.com/)

Thank you so much for the tips. This has been a really tough decision for me. I think I will take a gamble and let this unit go and sit on the outside waiting to jump in.

I had been looking for sites just like the ones you referred me to - thanks again!

[keg92101]

IMO i think you guys are complaining WAY too much about the Shapery Park Tower.

Sure, the design is a little odd, and there's above ground parking, but at least they tried to hide with glass and some of that weird exterior. Plus, it's something different! It's so NICE to have something DIFFERENT for once, and like someone said earlier, having this being built by the architect who made the Emerald Plaza definitely gives him some credibility. Plus, you got a rooftop restaraunt at one of the best locations possible, LEED certified, AND a glass elevator! (i'm sorry, but to me, that's really cool)


C'mon guys, AT LEAST the architect is trying to make something decent for San Diego and isn't half-assin the design like so many towers out there (to name a few The Mark, Allegro Tower, the Legend, Fahrenheit, Cortez Blu).
LIGHTEN UP!!

What architectural significant building do you live in? Last time I checked, Farhenheit won the Orchid this past year.

[keg92101]

Don't be suckered in. The market IS falling and likely will for the next 12 to 24 months!!! Count on it. Whn Legend units fall to about $375 per sq ft... on the 10th floor.... that's probably the time to start thinking of jumping in. Add $5 per sqft per additional floor, or -$5 for lower floor.

Here are 2 webites to visit and study up on before you lay down $500,000 for a condo unit (b/c that is still a lot of money):
Housing Bubble Bog (http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/)
San Diego Market Monitor (http://sandiegomarketmonitor.blogspot.com/)
Downtown San Diego Realestate (http://www.sdcondo.com/)

So a 1,000 SF unit in the Legend is going to only cost $375,000. Yeah, that's going to happen. Especially since units are still closing at above $500 per SF.

My advice to the guy would be if you are going to buy something that you want to keep for a while, and you are only going to be using it for weekend getaways, buy a resale from some poor chap that bought at the peak hoping to flip the unit, and will take the lesser loss now to stop the bleeding. Developers build these for about $350 per SF, and they will hold on to the units for a long time before cutting the prices too low

[keg92101]

If Shapery Park submerges all of it's parking, I might consider liking it more. ;)

Underground parking costs $90 per SF, and that is only going down 2 levels. This puts you at $9 million before even getting to grade, not to mention all the time loss going down and coming up. Read the print. They are not putting parking at the ground floor, but 3-5, like the Kimpton, which has great street presence.

[bmfarley]

So a 1,000 SF unit in the Legend is going to only cost $375,000. Yeah, that's going to happen. Especially since units are still closing at above $500 per SF.

My advice to the guy would be if you are going to buy something that you want to keep for a while, and you are only going to be using it for weekend getaways, buy a resale from some poor chap that bought at the peak hoping to flip the unit, and will take the lesser loss now to stop the bleeding. Developers build these for about $350 per SF, and they will hold on to the units for a long time before cutting the prices too low
$500/sft is the average or median RIGHT NOW. $375/sft is ONLY 25% off. That is certanly plausible! And, I'd bet on it!

Btw, there are some units right now, other than the older east bloc looking buildings, going for under $400/sft right now too. Aqua Vista and Palermo...

If it cost developers $350/sft to build... gee, I don't think we'll see many new residential towers starting any tim esoon, I regret.

[jesseasi]

$500/sft is the average or median RIGHT NOW. $375/sft is ONLY 25% off. That is certanly plausible! And, I'd bet on it!

Btw, there are some units right now, other than the older east bloc looking buildings, going for under $400/sft right now too. Aqua Vista and Palermo...

If it cost developers $350/sft to build... gee, I don't think we'll see many new residential towers starting any tim esoon, I regret.

Well as a buyer waiting in the wings - I would jump all over any top unit at Legend at $400 /sft. I pray you guys are right!

[Derek]

Underground parking costs $90 per SF, and that is only going down 2 levels. This puts you at $9 million before even getting to grade, not to mention all the time loss going down and coming up. Read the print. They are not putting parking at the ground floor, but 3-5, like the Kimpton, which has great street presence.

Oh, thanks for the information! I missed that it would be 3-5 floors up.

[SDCAL]

I have been quickly browsing through the thousands of posts here on the site and while most of the discussion has to do with new high rises and the growth of San Diego – a few of you live in condos and have good feel for the market. If my post is not appropriate for this forum – please excuse this question.

I am in the market to buy a condo and have a unit on reserve at the Legend. I have until this weekend to decide if I am going to buy it or let it go.

My main fear in investing in a condo like this are:

1. HOA Fees – they seem super high – but not just here – most everywhere HOA fees are going to be $500+. That money that is not tax deductible and if you are not taking advantage of the property – it is down the toilet.

2. Prospectors – the Legend will start closing their units this fall. Would it be wise to buy a unit right now at full price or wait till there is a flood of prospectors trying to unload their units. I am sure many of the buyers got in super early have great prices locked in. Taking a cool quick 10-20% profit might be a chance for me to land a better unit at about the same prices I am getting right now.

3. The whole San Diego market in general – every real estate agent I talk to in San Diego tells me prices are going up and up. That “we are past our little correction”. I am not sure I believe them.

My goal in buying a condo is to have a great 2nd home. I live up in LA and San Diego is a great place to visit. I am a season ticket holder for the Chargers and go down there every chance I get. I want something that is unique and special – not the run of the mill condo. I feel like at the legend I am getting an above average unit in a very unique and special building.

Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
(potential new San Diego resident!)

Obviously nobody knows what the market is going to be like in the short-term future, whether it be a realestate agent or someone on this site. It's all speculation and nobody has a working crystal ball.

The one thing about realestate, like other risky investments, is the longer you plan on having the investment, the better your chances of making a good profit. If you goal is simply to make money in the short-term like so many tried when the market was hot, I say don't do it.

If it's a property you like and plan on staying for a minimum of 5 years, then absolutely do it. I live downtown and I like my unit and am confident the market will rebound, it is just a question of how much further the market will slip before it starts the climb back up.

This is not a time to be buying with quick profit turnaround in mind, but if you are seriously looking for a place you like and want to live in for awhile it's a good time to buy

[SDCAL]

a charger stadium is needed, but why doesn't anybody ever talk about the library that is not getting built? I think this should be a higher priority for the city right now. Has anyone been to the downtown library lately??? It's like going back in time to the 40s or something, it is as big of a joke as our airport. I think if the library waas to be built, that area of EV would start to show more signs of development instead of the dead proposals there now

we have a barren lot for a library across the street from a barren lot for a library tower, very sad to see especially considering how long both have been there collecting dust :(

[SDCAL]

so, on the CCDC site which was last updated 27-JUNE-2007, the cosmo square project which used to say it would start "spring of '07" now says starting "late '07". Do you think there are really plans to groundbreak this year or is CCDC just updating with phantom dates so their site doesn't look out of date?????????

[bushman61988]

I'm planning on going to the design review tommorow evening cuz i really wanna see these new marriott towers by petco park. i'll try to take pics too, but does anyone else know where the hell it's suppose to be at Exactly? I know it's near horton plaza right in front by the NBC building, but im not sure where exactly...

[Derek]

a charger stadium is needed, but why doesn't anybody ever talk about the library that is not getting built? I think this should be a higher priority for the city right now. Has anyone been to the downtown library lately??? It's like going back in time to the 40s or something, it is as big of a joke as our airport. I think if the library waas to be built, that area of EV would start to show more signs of development instead of the dead proposals there now

we have a barren lot for a library across the street from a barren lot for a library tower, very sad to see especially considering how long both have been there collecting dust :(

I agree. I've said this before but that entire region needs a new library. Think of all the other communities it would serve like Barrio Logan and Golden Hill etc. The current downtown library is basically a homeless hang out now.

[Derek]

I'm planning on going to the design review tommorow evening cuz i really wanna see these new marriott towers by petco park. i'll try to take pics too, but does anyone else know where the hell it's suppose to be at Exactly? I know it's near horton plaza right in front by the NBC building, but im not sure where exactly...

If it's in the Downtown Information Center, it's located on the left side of the plaza where the ice rink is in the winter.

[sandiegodweller]

I am not against the new library but I am curious what the point is of a new, fancy library. Especially in San Diego. There is no real American History here, and no old money families to fund it like back east (Carnegie, Rockefeller, Mellon, etc.). It seems pretty 19th century to me. I don't see it being used very much.

San Diego barely supports the local museums. San Diego has Balboa Park and it's numerous museums. I don't see attendance booming up there.

[keg92101]

I am not against the new library but I am curious what the point is of a new, fancy library. Especially in San Diego. There is no real American History here, and no old money families to fund it like back east (Carnegie, Rockefeller, Mellon, etc.). It seems pretty 19th century to me. I don't see it being used very much.

San Diego barely supports the local museums. San Diego has Balboa Park and it's numerous museums. I don't see attendance booming up there.

Do you realize that since the Seattle Central Library was built that it is now the third highest visited tourist attraction (behind Pike's Market and Space Needle). Granted, I've been saying that they need to coup their losses and do a complete redesign (the cost is hovering at an astronomical $500 per SF), and contract the job as a Lump-Sum Design Build, placing all risk / reward on the General Contractor.

[jesseasi]

Obviously nobody knows what the market is going to be like in the short-term future, whether it be a realestate agent or someone on this site. It's all speculation and nobody has a working crystal ball.

The one thing about realestate, like other risky investments, is the longer you plan on having the investment, the better your chances of making a good profit. If you goal is simply to make money in the short-term like so many tried when the market was hot, I say don't do it.

If it's a property you like and plan on staying for a minimum of 5 years, then absolutely do it. I live downtown and I like my unit and am confident the market will rebound, it is just a question of how much further the market will slip before it starts the climb back up.

This is not a time to be buying with quick profit turnaround in mind, but if you are seriously looking for a place you like and want to live in for awhile it's a good time to buy

I appreciate all the advice. Whatever I buy I plan to own for a while - 5 years minimum. What makes me so leary of buying right now is that this property came up the 1st day I started my search and I am being pressured into buying it and I feel like I am settling. Supposedly only 5 units left in the building. Plus I have never seen the unit or any unit in that building.

Seems like the sound thing for me to do is wait till the Legend starts to close and keep an eye on other units that might become available.

The gamble is that everything will go up in price and I will have to pay 100K more for something similar to what I can get right now. I am hoping the prices stay comparable or even go down so I can get something better at the same price.

Do you think that will happen? I have not been in the market for a Condo when a building is about to finished with everything pre-sold. I have to think that many of the owners are going to be prospectors and they will try to flip their units.

[ucsbgaucho]

^^^ Well I'm sure Mark Fabiani and his staff (you know who he is write, Chargers guy appointed to find stadium sites) have called every big developer of stadiums, ballparks, arenas, resorts, etc. in North America and probably some in Europe too. Whether or not he has actually met with all of them and thoroughly shown them ideas/plans is another thing.

A couple weeks ago, Mark was on an online chat on the Union-Tribune site, and I asked this question to him, about partnering with Gaylord if that fell through. Don't remember his exact answer, but basically it was a "if Gaylord became available to talk to, we'd like to talk to them" type deal. Don't know when the next chat is scheduled where he'll be on, but I'd love to find out more from him, whether this is really something that could be pursued.

I'd love Fiesta Island to be the site, there's enough room for a football stadium and basketball arena, and with the trend away from huge open parking lots, you could easily fit just enough garages for season ticket holders, etc and the rest is offsite parking, maybe the existing Sports Arena site becomes the satellite parking area for the stadium with a new direct trolley/tram between the two to shuttle fans.

[sandiego_urban]

The San Diego County Regional Airport Authority will meet with Lufthansa airlines in late May to make a business case for San Diego as a hub for their airline operation. The Airport Authority requests information from San Diego County organizations and corporations in advance of this initial meeting with Lufthansa.
It would be cool if we could get non-stop service to Europe once again. It sucked when British Airways pulled out of Lindbergh 5 years ago due to low demand. Selfishly, I'd rather see Lufthansa here because they partner with United Airlines (my primary mileage plan) ;)



Does anyone know what ever happened to Phillippine Airlines' plan to come here?



Philippine Airlines To Order Boeing 777-300ERs

Nov 20, 2006

By Steven Lott/Aviation Daily

Philippine Airlines as early as this week plans to order at least six Boeing 777-300ERs, The DAILY has learned, as part of its long-haul fleet expansion; PAL plans to use the new aircraft to boost service to the U.S. West Coast.

The carrier in September said it was evaluating bids to order five aircraft for the regional widebody fleet and three for long-haul operations (DAILY, Sept. 5). President Jaime Bautista said PAL evaluated the 777 and the Airbus A340-600 but decided that the two-engine 777 was more efficient and burned less fuel than the four-engine A340. He told The DAILY in Osaka on the sidelines of the Association of Asia Pacific Airlines annual meeting that a deal has been signed with Boeing and an announcement is planned this week.

The deal includes a firm order for two 777-300ERs and options for another two aircraft. PAL also will take two more 777s through a lease deal. The purchased planes will be delivered in 2009, and the leased aircraft will arrive in 2010. The options are available for delivery starting in 2011.

Two-Class Product

The carrier is working to determine the final number of seats for the aircraft, but Bautista confirmed that the airline will have a two-class product. PAL's long-haul operations currently have three classes, but the airline decided to remove first class from its long-haul fleet and introduce a new lie-flat "cocoon" seat, he said. The new product also will have an upgraded inflight entertainment system.

The airline has eight A330s and four A340s in service, along with five Boeing 747s. Bautista said the airline has no immediate plans to drop any of the aircraft until the new 777s start arriving in 2009. He said the carrier is considering the 787 for additional growth, although a decision will not come for several years.

The 777s will likely be used to expand service to North America, Bautista said. He wants to add more frequencies to Los Angeles, San Francisco and Vancouver. In terms of new markets, PAL is evaluating nonstop service to Seattle and flights to San Diego. It now flies four days a week from Manila to Las Vegas with a stop in Vancouver. If it can win regulatory approval, it would operate the other three weekly frequencies to San Diego via Vancouver.

Another priority is to boost its presence in China and India. The carrier wants to offer more frequencies to Beijing and Xiamen and will likely add flights to India thanks to a new bilateral agreement. Under the agreement, PAL would be able to add flights to seven Indian destinations.

PAL is working to keep its costs under control to offset high fuel prices, and Bautista predicts the airline's profits will be on par with the high results of last year. For the year ending March 31, PAL's profit was $28.7 million, the airline's most profitable year in more than a decade. The current-year results will be close to that amount or may dip slightly, depending on fuel prices, he said, adding that traffic should rise about 5% this year.

[sandiego_urban]

I am not against the new library but I am curious what the point is of a new, fancy library. Especially in San Diego. There is no real American History here, and no old money families to fund it like back east (Carnegie, Rockefeller, Mellon, etc.). It seems pretty 19th century to me. I don't see it being used very much.
Libraries aren't just about books these days. It's a big gathering place for people, ie, meetings, research, kid's field trips, etc. I went to the one in Vancouver and it was packed with people. Folks were sitting on the front step hanging out - it was really cool. It would definitely add life to the East Village. I go to our downtown library every so often and it stinks. Build it and they will come ;)


San Diego barely supports the local museums. San Diego has Balboa Park and it's numerous museums. I don't see attendance booming up there.
Not true. Check out the the attendance figures so far this year http://www.sandiego.org/downloads/1184087174.53192700_ebe0e3b3e0/APR07VISCAL.pdf

Museum and art events are up 25% over last year. Both The Dead Sea Scroll exhibit and Bodies: The Exhibition, will make those numbers go up even further.

Yeah, we love our beaches, but we support cultural things, as well. :tup:


I'm planning on going to the design review tommorow evening cuz i really wanna see these new marriott towers by petco park. i'll try to take pics too, but does anyone else know where the hell it's suppose to be at Exactly? I know it's near horton plaza right in front by the NBC building, but im not sure where exactly...
I believe it's in the Downtown Info Center where the mini-model is. Make sure you take pictures of the renderings if you can or at least draw sketches like they do in courtroom trials. ;)

I just check the CCDC agenda for the meeting today and it's so damn depressing to see yet 3 new proposed towers (2 Marriott towers - please, no twin towers and Monaco) maxing out at the 500' MSL limit :(

In addition to those, there's 700 W. Broaday, Library, Mondrian, Shapery Park Tower, among others, that are all at the 500' max. Can you imagine what our skyline could look like if no height limit existed?

[Derek]

I am not against the new library but I am curious what the point is of a new, fancy library. Especially in San Diego. There is no real American History here, and no old money families to fund it like back east (Carnegie, Rockefeller, Mellon, etc.). It seems pretty 19th century to me. I don't see it being used very much.

San Diego barely supports the local museums. San Diego has Balboa Park and it's numerous museums. I don't see attendance booming up there.

I visit the city library frequently for my school work, as well as Balboa Park. I like that kind of stuff.:)

[Derek]

Philippine Airlines and Lufthansa? That would be something! :tup:

[bmfarley]

I'm planning on going to the design review tommorow evening cuz i really wanna see these new marriott towers by petco park. i'll try to take pics too, but does anyone else know where the hell it's suppose to be at Exactly? I know it's near horton plaza right in front by the NBC building, but im not sure where exactly...The formal design review of the project is an actual meeting of a committee; which is not on the 1st floor of the NBC building. it's on the 7th or 11th. Likely the 7th. that's where CCDC's offices are located, as well as their makeshift Board Room. If you've never been to one, they are easy to attend. Just go in and find a seat.

[HurricaneHugo]

Your mission, if you decide to accept it, is to infiltrate the CCDC's meeting and take pictures of the renderings of the new proposals. You can not fail us, as failure would mean waiting a whole day before we get to see them. Good luck.
Self-destructing...NOW!

[Derek]

:jester:

[sandiegodweller]

Do you realize that since the Seattle Central Library was built that it is now the third highest visited tourist attraction (behind Pike's Market and Space Needle). Granted, I've been saying that they need to coup their losses and do a complete redesign (the cost is hovering at an astronomical $500 per SF), and contract the job as a Lump-Sum Design Build, placing all risk / reward on the General Contractor.
That's what they did for the new Courthouse and no one bid because the budget was unrealistic.

[bushman61988]

Your mission, if you decide to accept it, is to infiltrate the CCDC's meeting and take pictures of the renderings of the new proposals. You can not fail us, as failure would mean waiting a whole day before we get to see them. Good luck.
Self-destructing...NOW!

I'm sorry...i kinda failed. I went to the damn Review. it was actually pretty interesting, but damn, at some parts it could be so BORING. I felt super uncomfortable there, too...like I didnt' belong and everyone was staring at me...maybe cuz im a younger minority:sly:
...But for reals though, I felt like i wasnt suppose to take pictures, and i got there kind of late and i was in the back of the room lookin sideways at the projections...AND i had to leave after 1 1/2 hour. SORRY!!

But on the bright side of that, ALL the renderings they showed of the Marriott Hotels were just simple, kind of conceptual, and most of them were renderings from the Ballpark Masterplan that many of us had already seen. I didnt get to hear the comments from the committee, but they had initally complained b/c some of the project blocked views from the future (?) Library dome reading room.

[Derek]

future (?) Library dome reading room

At least they are still talking about it.:yes:

[laguna]

[QUOTE=bmfarley;2943297]Don't be suckered in. The market IS falling and likely will for the next 12 to 24 months!!! Count on it. Whn Legend units fall to about $375 per sq ft... on the 10th floor.... that's probably the time to start thinking of jumping in. Add $5 per sqft per additional floor, or -$5 for lower floor.


Comments like these seem to indicate that we must be close to a bottom in the downtown market.

Aperture has sold 25% of their building in less than 2 months. The lowest prices are in the $500+/per ft. price. The building has no ammenities and not many premium views. They have a solid building (concrete&steel) and a Little Italy location. Traffic at the sales center is brisk. I guess you could offer them $375 a foot and get laughed at.

The Acqua Vista is not a premium building as it was built as an apartment building and has lots of problems. Even at that, the better units are bringing around $500/ft. Why would anyone want a poor unit even if it was cheaper?

The Grande is not in Little Italy, it is in Columbia. I doesnt have the benefit of the strong Association and ammenities of Little Italy.

Alot of the units that are being discussed are wood construction and are not as costly to build as concrete/ steel. Nor are they even close to as nice. Keep that in mind when comparing.

When I see a 10th floor Legend unit for $375 a foot, I will be looking for Jesus return.

[Derek]

Welcome laguna!

[bmfarley]

I'm sorry...i kinda failed. I went to the damn Review. it was actually pretty interesting, but damn, at some parts it could be so BORING. I felt super uncomfortable there, too...like I didnt' belong and everyone was staring at me...maybe cuz im a younger minority:sly:
...But for reals though, I felt like i wasnt suppose to take pictures, and i got there kind of late and i was in the back of the room lookin sideways at the projections...AND i had to leave after 1 1/2 hour. SORRY!!

But on the bright side of that, ALL the renderings they showed of the Marriott Hotels were just simple, kind of conceptual, and most of them were renderings from the Ballpark Masterplan that many of us had already seen. I didnt get to hear the comments from the committee, but they had initally complained b/c some of the project blocked views from the future (?) Library dome reading room.

In the future, don't feel uncomfortable. It's everyones else's problem if they have an issue. But, staff and regulars do kinda note when a new face is in the crowd... wondering if they are going to speak during any of the public comment periods for the action items. But that is all they are doing. Other than that, students always attend, assuming you look like one.

[spoonman]

I just pulled this from Online CPI. Looks like we don't have to sweat Library Tower anymore :)

http://www.onlinecpi.org/article.php?list=type&type=246

"The Marriott Convention Hotel at Ballpark Village is a proposed 1,650 room hotel with 175,000 SF of meeting space. The proposed project is located overlooking the ballpark on a 3.34 acres site bounded by 11th Avenue on the east, Park Boulevard on the west, lmperial Avenue on the north and rail yards on the south.There will be a 110' high podium which contains the convention functions and its related support spaces, and two 500'-tall guest room towers (total 41 stories). The western tower may have up to 100 condominiums.

This 2.3 million square foot project is expected to cost $650 million. The development size includes part of the 1.2 million square foot floor are transferred from the ballpark in the Ballpark Villages Master Plan."

[SDCAL]

I am not against the new library but I am curious what the point is of a new, fancy library. Especially in San Diego. There is no real American History here, and no old money families to fund it like back east (Carnegie, Rockefeller, Mellon, etc.). It seems pretty 19th century to me. I don't see it being used very much.

San Diego barely supports the local museums. San Diego has Balboa Park and it's numerous museums. I don't see attendance booming up there.

I am confused by several pieces of logic here. First, I didn't realize that the same people who go to libraries are the same exact people who go to museums in Balboa Park?? What Balboa Park's attendance rates have to do with library projections?? I'm also not sure what American History has to do with it, many new cities out west have built new libraries successfully, including Seattle as someone pointed out.

I get the feeling the point of your statement is that San Diego is not cultured enough to value or utilize a new library even though that's not exactly what you said, I apologize if I missed your point

Every time I have been to the library it's packed, and a library is not just a place to check out books, it gives people who can't afford a computer or internet cafes the ability to get online. Libraries, including ours, are also used as spaces for many public and civic events (look at their website, there is always something going on). I admit I don't go very often, but that doesn't mean there aren't people who go more regularly.

Most importantly, the DT library is the central hub for SD countys entire library system, including the computerized card catalogue and central computing system. By the standards of ANY city of our size, the central library is an out-dated piece of crap that needs to be replaced now (the building is hostoric, so I would favor keeping that or incorporating it into a neew development, but the library itself should move)

[mongoXZ]

I just pulled this from Online CPI. Looks like we don't have to sweat Library Tower anymore :)

"The Marriott Convention Hotel at Ballpark Village is a proposed 1,650 room hotel with 175,000 SF of meeting space. The proposed project is located overlooking the ballpark on a 3.34 acres site bounded by 11th Avenue on the east, Park Boulevard on the west, lmperial Avenue on the north and rail yards on the south.There will be a 110' high podium which contains the convention functions and its related support spaces, and two 500'-tall guest room towers (total 41 stories). The western tower may have up to 100 condominiums.

This 2.3 million square foot project is expected to cost $650 million. The development size includes part of the 1.2 million square foot floor are transferred from the ballpark in the Ballpark Villages Master Plan."

This eerily sounds like Manchester Hyatt. My nightmares are coming true.:sly:

[sandiegodweller]

I just pulled this from Online CPI. Looks like we don't have to sweat Library Tower anymore :)

http://www.onlinecpi.org/article.php?list=type&type=246

"The Marriott Convention Hotel at Ballpark Village is a proposed 1,650 room hotel with 175,000 SF of meeting space. The proposed project is located overlooking the ballpark on a 3.34 acres site bounded by 11th Avenue on the east, Park Boulevard on the west, lmperial Avenue on the north and rail yards on the south.There will be a 110' high podium which contains the convention functions and its related support spaces, and two 500'-tall guest room towers (total 41 stories). The western tower may have up to 100 condominiums.

This 2.3 million square foot project is expected to cost $650 million. The development size includes part of the 1.2 million square foot floor are transferred from the ballpark in the Ballpark Villages Master Plan."
What does this have to do with the Library Tower project?

[spoonman]

^A lot of people on this site (including myself) have been hoping the Library Tower would be built to add more height variety to the East Village. These towers will be only 20 feet taller than Library Tower's 480' building, so these should "fit the bill".

The good news is that these towers are going a small-ish parcel next to the Transit Center Headquarters. This means they will not be sprawling all over like the Hyatt, Marriott and the newest mistake, the Hilton. It also means that it will be right next to bus and rail transit for all the workers and visitors.

The bad news is that the towers are twins. I can only pray that they are not that stucco crap. Hopefully they'll look something like the glass side of the Omni (in my opinion)

[Derek]

edit sorry

[Derek]

How do we know they are twins?

[spoonman]

From this information I found on CPI and posted previously...

"The Marriott Convention Hotel at Ballpark Village is a proposed 1,650 room hotel with 175,000 SF of meeting space. The proposed project is located overlooking the ballpark on a 3.34 acres site bounded by 11th Avenue on the east, Park Boulevard on the west, lmperial Avenue on the north and rail yards on the south.There will be a 110' high podium which contains the convention functions and its related support spaces, and two 500'-tall guest room towers (total 41 stories). The western tower may have up to 100 condominiums.

This 2.3 million square foot project is expected to cost $650 million. The development size includes part of the 1.2 million square foot floor are transferred from the ballpark in the Ballpark Villages Master Plan."

[sandiegodweller]

I am confused by several pieces of logic here. First, I didn't realize that the same people who go to libraries are the same exact people who go to museums in Balboa Park?? What Balboa Park's attendance rates have to do with library projections?? I'm also not sure what American History has to do with it, many new cities out west have built new libraries successfully, including Seattle as someone pointed out.

I get the feeling the point of your statement is that San Diego is not cultured enough to value or utilize a new library even though that's not exactly what you said, I apologize if I missed your point

Every time I have been to the library it's packed, and a library is not just a place to check out books, it gives people who can't afford a computer or internet cafes the ability to get online. Libraries, including ours, are also used as spaces for many public and civic events (look at their website, there is always something going on). I admit I don't go very often, but that doesn't mean there aren't people who go more regularly.

Most importantly, the DT library is the central hub for SD countys entire library system, including the computerized card catalogue and central computing system. By the standards of ANY city of our size, the central library is an out-dated piece of crap that needs to be replaced now (the building is hostoric, so I would favor keeping that or incorporating it into a neew development, but the library itself should move)
I am not trying to argue the value of developing the current East Village site for civic uses but I do question the need for an expensive new library.

FYI - Seattle voters decided to borrow money to build their new library. I haven't seen any outpouring of support in San Diego.

"Seattle voters in 1998 approved the largest library bond issue then ever submitted in the United States. The landmark "Libraries for All" bond measure, which proposed a $196.4 million makeover of the Library system, garnered an unprecedented 69 percent approval rate at the polls. The massive measure will double the square footage in Seattle's 22 libraries, including the building of new branches, plus also produce a new $169.2 million Central Library (including $10 million for the Temporary Central Library) to replace its worn-out 1960 predecessor."

1. Andrew Carnegie (US Steel) gave millions of dollars to start some original library systems throughout the world. We don't have a modern day Carnegie who doles out millions for their pet cause except if it is world health (Gates and Buffett) or African schools (Oprah). The orignial capitalists in this country (Rockefeller, Mellon, Morgan, Carnegie, etc.) saw the need to create massive public works in the East Coast cities to compete with the great cities of Europe. California's history sprouts from the Missions.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_library

2. You mention that the Library would become a center for culture and a meeting place. We already have Balboa Park as a center for culture and a meeting place. I don't see that Balboa Park is being overutilized and stretched to it's capacity yet. Also, the Children's Museum downtown still needs additional funding. San Diegan's (corprate and private) haven't shown a real penchant for donating large sums of cash.

3. People who frequent libraries and loiter all day, every day are called homeless, elderly, unemployed and/or latch key kids. If San Diego wants to help the homeless, elderly, unemployed and provide daycare, they can spend the $175+ million to address those issues.

4. It is 2007. The modern central computing system is called the internet. We don't need a $175 million building to house a few servers. The quest for knowledge is now provided electronically. Google and Microsoft have basically rendered libraries obsolete.

Students are still the predominant users of libraries. UCSD, SDSU, USD, San Diego City College should be able to take up the slack for legitimate users who need the services of the library.

The City is running on a huge deficit. We need good, job producing, tax generating projects, not more bloated government projects.

[spoonman]

Here's an old rendering of Ballpark Village which shows the future Marriott site on the bottom. To the right of it (the white buildings) is the Transportation Center.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/ballparkvill.bmp


In this picture the future Marriott would be the two tallest buildings closest to the bridge to the hilton.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/bp3.jpg

[DowntownSDJoe]

Hey guys, been reading the posts for a while now and just now registered, live in the grande north and am moving to the legend in october....love to talk downtown and all the new condos,offices,resteraunts,etc...

this Marriott Convention Center @ Ballpark Village excites me, sounds like a huge project, cant wait for some renderings

[Derek]

Maybe the towers would have different designs? :shrug:

[spoonman]

I'm going to assume that the designs will be different than those renderings that I posted. I just wanted to give everyone an idea of the exact location and the scale of the development.

[bushman61988]

Maybe the towers would have different designs? :shrug:

From what I saw at the design review, the towers aren't EXACT twins, but they are really similar. they also aren't nearly as massive, as someone said earlier, as the Hyatt towers or that DREADFUL Hilton. Even though they top out at 487 feet, they look pretty good, and their slenderness will make them appear even taller. But the renderings were very conceptual, not at all dissimilar to the ones that were posted above. :previous:

[Derek]

From what I saw at the design review, the towers aren't EXACT twins, but they are really similar. they also aren't nearly as massive, as someone said earlier, as the Hyatt towers or that DREADFUL Hilton. Even though they top out at 487 feet, they look pretty good, and their slenderness will make them appear even taller. But the renderings were very conceptual, not at all dissimilar to the ones that were posted above. :previous:

Thanks for the info!:)

[bmfarley]

Here's an old rendering of Ballpark Village which shows the future Marriott site on the bottom. To the right of it (the white buildings) is the Transportation Center.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/ballparkvill.bmp
In this picture the future Marriott would be the two tallest buildings closest to the bridge to the hilton.Do I see a 2nd pedestrian bridge in the area.. one over Imperial at Park?

[SDCAL]

I am not trying to argue the value of developing the current East Village site for civic uses but I do question the need for an expensive new library.

FYI - Seattle voters decided to borrow money to build their new library. I haven't seen any outpouring of support in San Diego.

"Seattle voters in 1998 approved the largest library bond issue then ever submitted in the United States. The landmark "Libraries for All" bond measure, which proposed a $196.4 million makeover of the Library system, garnered an unprecedented 69 percent approval rate at the polls. The massive measure will double the square footage in Seattle's 22 libraries, including the building of new branches, plus also produce a new $169.2 million Central Library (including $10 million for the Temporary Central Library) to replace its worn-out 1960 predecessor."


1. Andrew Carnegie (US Steel) gave millions of dollars to start some original library systems throughout the world. We don't have a modern day Carnegie who doles out millions for their pet cause except if it is world health (Gates and Buffett) or African schools (Oprah). The orignial capitalists in this country (Rockefeller, Mellon, Morgan, Carnegie, etc.) saw the need to create massive public works in the East Coast cities to compete with the great cities of Europe. California's history sprouts from the Missions.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_library

2. You mention that the Library would become a center for culture and a meeting place. We already have Balboa Park as a center for culture and a meeting place. I don't see that Balboa Park is being overutilized and stretched to it's capacity yet. Also, the Children's Museum downtown still needs additional funding. San Diegan's (corprate and private) haven't shown a real penchant for donating large sums of cash.

3. People who frequent libraries and loiter all day, every day are called homeless, elderly, unemployed and/or latch key kids. If San Diego wants to help the homeless, elderly, unemployed and provide daycare, they can spend the $175+ million to address those issues.

4. It is 2007. The modern central computing system is called the internet. We don't need a $175 million building to house a few servers. The quest for knowledge is now provided electronically. Google and Microsoft have basically rendered libraries obsolete.

Students are still the predominant users of libraries. UCSD, SDSU, USD, San Diego City College should be able to take up the slack for legitimate users who need the services of the library.

The City is running on a huge deficit. We need good, job producing, tax generating projects, not more bloated government projects.

I am a member of the SD Museum of Art and go to Balboa Park all the time and it is usually packed, hard to even find parking, so not sure what part of BP you are talking about or when the last time you went was. Granted, alot of the people do appear to be tourists.

I still don't think it's a fair comparison, the types of events that the library holds are different from the events in Balboa Park. Library events focus more on issues for lower incomes whereas balboa park tends to draw more well-heeled people for events such as Old Globe plays and art shows, so I don't think the comparison of Balboa Park and the Library serving the same purpose is valid

I don't think having a place for unemployed/elderly or even homeless people to have access to BOOKS and COMPUTERS is bad as you imply. People without the means need a place to find resources to find jobs and do their resumes! I really think if downtown is to survive as a vibrant neighborhood we need to have areas geared for all people, not just those that can afford million dollar condos

As far as SDSU, UCSD, etc, again those serve the purposes of people privileged enough to be going to college. The public library serves those who can't

the one thing I do agree with you on is that, compared to other big cities, donations from the community for the arts are very low, I think part of the problem is our super-rich live up north in places like La Jolla or Rancho Santa Fe so they prefer to throw their tax-deductable charity money at places up there instead of in the city :( :(

[Derek]

Do I see a 2nd pedestrian bridge in the area.. one over Imperial at Park?

I see it too! Sweet. :)

[Derek]

I am a member of the SD Museum of Art and go to Balboa Park all the time and it is usually packed, hard to even find parking, so not sure what part of BP you are talking about or when the last time you went was. Granted, alot of the people do appear to be tourists.

I still don't think it's a fair comparison, the types of events that the library holds are different from the events in Balboa Park. Library events focus more on issues for lower incomes whereas balboa park tends to draw more well-heeled people for events such as Old Globe plays and art shows, so I don't think the comparison of Balboa Park and the Library serving the same purpose is valid

I don't think having a place for unemployed/elderly or even homeless people to have access to BOOKS and COMPUTERS is bad as you imply. People without the means need a place to find resources to find jobs and do their resumes! I really think if downtown is to survive as a vibrant neighborhood we need to have areas geared for all people, not just those that can afford million dollar condos

As far as SDSU, UCSD, etc, again those serve the purposes of people privileged enough to be going to college. The public library serves those who can't

the one thing I do agree with you on is that, compared to other big cities, donations from the community for the arts are very low, I think part of the problem is our super-rich live up north in places like La Jolla or Rancho Santa Fe so they prefer to throw their tax-deductable charity money at places up there instead of in the city :( :(

I agree with you.

[SEsdCALconnect]

I agree with you.

i definitely agree...i used to teach at San Diego High and believe me, them kids just east of the I-5 would really benefit from a NEW major public library in East Village...not to mention their families...they'll use it...believe me...just like how so many working-class folks and middle-class folks alike fill up National City's Public Library when it was reopened a few year's back... and...they..keep.coming!

i can't tell you how many complaints i get from my students who need to use a computer in the library because they lack one at home...they don't like the school's library let alone the one in downtown...!

a new library that central and accessible to the students would really make for a positive impact to many of the youth in the region...and that's from a teacher-standpoint

as much as i loved the original proposal of the library, given the mounting cost estimates and the financial crisis our city is in, i would be open to a design change in order to cut costs if that's what it takes to save the library project from dying...so as long as it maintains some sort of signature, landmark look...

that's just my input on all that...

[Derek]

The current one is just crap. And smells funny.

[HurricaneHugo]

From this information I found on CPI and posted previously...

"The Marriott Convention Hotel at Ballpark Village is a proposed 1,650 room hotel with 175,000 SF of meeting space. The proposed project is located overlooking the ballpark on a 3.34 acres site bounded by 11th Avenue on the east, Park Boulevard on the west, lmperial Avenue on the north and rail yards on the south.There will be a 110' high podium which contains the convention functions and its related support spaces, and two 500'-tall guest room towers (total 41 stories). The western tower may have up to 100 condominiums.

This 2.3 million square foot project is expected to cost $650 million. The development size includes part of the 1.2 million square foot floor are transferred from the ballpark in the Ballpark Villages Master Plan."

I just nutted.

[eburress]

From this information I found on CPI and posted previously...

"The Marriott Convention Hotel at Ballpark Village is a proposed 1,650 room hotel with 175,000 SF of meeting space. The proposed project is located overlooking the ballpark on a 3.34 acres site bounded by 11th Avenue on the east, Park Boulevard on the west, lmperial Avenue on the north and rail yards on the south.There will be a 110' high podium which contains the convention functions and its related support spaces, and two 500'-tall guest room towers (total 41 stories). The western tower may have up to 100 condominiums.

This 2.3 million square foot project is expected to cost $650 million. The development size includes part of the 1.2 million square foot floor are transferred from the ballpark in the Ballpark Villages Master Plan."

Am I missing something...what's new (or news) about this? We had an idea of the project's scale already. Is the project any more likely to happen now than before?