SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[keg92101]

To me this is the most challenging part of downtown right now, Retail! There is so much vacant space and, one would have to have guess that the rents are out of line with business models. For downtown to grow and prosper, and become more of a 'neighborhood' retail rents have to fall/correct.

I applaud CCDC for requiring ground floor retail, but I think it might become neccessary for CCDC to require developers to subsidize retail rents to encourage growth. I think Seattle and Portland have programs like this. Just requiring it (retail) doesn't make it happen.

I also understand that a critical mass of residents and workers are necessary for any retail to succeed as well. I have heard a statistics that it takes 1600 people per urban city block to make retail successful. I don't think our current densities offer this. Any one have any info on that?

As far as Trader Joe's is considered their business model is driven by LOW RENT. They do not pay market rents in most of their markets. I think a savvy downtown commercial investor might consider offering them some space in conjunction with a larger commercial project to 'get it going'. I am sure if the price is right, Trader Joes would be in Downtown.

I notice a lot of the older buildings are starting to get retail (Along 9th/10th Ave near Market and G... That is nice to see.

Any thoughts?

These are my thoughts exactly. A developer could place a trader joes on a building's ground floor as an amenity for the building, and a marketting tool. I mean, if I did not yet live downtown, and was looking for a unit, all things equal and one building had a trader joes on the ground floor, I'm buying at that building. Unfortunately, developers don't seem to get this, otherwise we would have tons of specialty retail shops already.

All that being said, major retail outlets are paying north of $4 per sf at some locations, so it must work...

[SDCAL]

These are my thoughts exactly. A developer could place a trader joes on a building's ground floor as an amenity for the building, and a marketting tool. I mean, if I did not yet live downtown, and was looking for a unit, all things equal and one building had a trader joes on the ground floor, I'm buying at that building. Unfortunately, developers don't seem to get this, otherwise we would have tons of specialty retail shops already.

All that being said, major retail outlets are paying north of $4 per sf at some locations, so it must work...

I agree - one location that crosses my mind is the lower level of the tr produce building. It's such a cool project, and everytime I walk by and see the vacant lower level I wonder what/when something will go in there. It is still a blank slate, looks like one big open space that would be about the right size for a small market, but you know the rent has got to be through the roof!!! Whole Foods is generally higher end and pays for higher profile places. In one swanky upsclase high-rise development project I was reading about in Miami, whole foods is actually being named upfront as a retailer, I guess they made an agreement before the project even got started.

[bmfarley]

I also understand that a critical mass of residents and workers are necessary for any retail to succeed as well. I have heard a statistics that it takes 1600 people per urban city block to make retail successful. I don't think our current densities offer this. Any one have any info on that?

Any thoughts?

1600 people per block seems high to me. Could it be for larger blocks... thinking San Diego's urban ones are a bit smaller. With over 300 city blocks downtown... 1600 per block as an average would equate to a downtown population of about 480,000.

For a 12 by 12 grid... thinking of a square mile... and 144 city blocks. That would equate to over 230,000. Even that seems high for a square mile. San Francisco has over 800,000 people across about 49 square miles... or over 16k per square mile. Although SF has a much higher daytime population than 800k.

[sandiegodweller]

Todays Paradise in progress:

Marriott Residence Inn Construction Begins
Construction of the 12-story, 185-room hotel at Sixth Avenue and J Street will start next week with the installation of fencing and the beginning of dewatering and shoring. On street parking on the south side of J and east side of Sixth next to the project will be eliminated for the length of construction. The hotel is expected to open in the summer of 2009.
This hasn't happend yet.

[Derek]

^:no:

[ucsbgaucho]

So 1.5 miles north and east is the 500' limit? Here's where that would reach, if you took the measurement from the extreme eastern edge of the airport, basically Laurel St and Pacific Hwy. Doesn't even reach Petco.
http://www.chrisaustinphotography.com/temp/airport.jpg

[spoonman]

Maybe North Island is the killer?

[SDDTProspector]

I remember the rumor that someone was going to challege the 500Ft height limit with a building in the somewhere in the east village, never heard any details and I think it never got past the intial planning stages....

I wonder if they would of proposed it if it would of gotten past the FAA?

Miami is currently challenging the FAA about the building heights in D-town, the developers are claiming that is the airlines that are the biggest complainers becuase they will used more jet fuel to take off and land..... In san Diego's case the planes are only landing......

[Crackertastik]

maybe it is 1.5 miles from anywhere along the flight path?

that would effectively kill all of downtown if you drew a straight line southeast from airport runway and then made a series of 1.5 mile circles from along the flight path.

maybe that is how they produce the height limit for the area

[druna974]

I can't wait for this project to start. The NE block of 9th and Island might be the worst blight in the ballpark district...http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z153/druna974/hotelindigo.jpg

[SDDTProspector]

It may be possible to put a plus 500 plus ft building in east Village... I have the official document that shows it (Pages 51 thru 53) (has a nice little illustration too) There may a slice land in east Village just south of Petco park. JMI's project "ball park village". Here are some points of interest...

http://www.san.org/documents/aluc/SDIA_ALUCP.pdf

- City of San diego actually set the high limit at 500ft

-The zone is actually 2.3 miles from the runway

-There has to be a 300ft buffer height added

Even a better document..........

Talks about how a runway was retired in Lindberg field in 1994 and the Height Limit zone was never updated, It would free up space outside the far Southwest side of downtown,....

http://www.sandiego.gov/planning-commission/pcreports/airportapproach.pdf


ACTUALLY THE AIA (airport Influence Area) for San Diego International Airport exceeds the Airport Environs Overlay Zone.. In a Nutshell... The city of San Diego made their height limit lower than the FAA requires..... FAA recommeds a 200 ft buffer zone, instead of 300ft that the city uses.......... I maybe reading it wrong but I might be correct....

http://www.sdairfields.org/Portals/0/Sunroad/20070202-City%20Galloway-Projects%20in%20the%20Airport%20Influence%20Areas-pgs1-4.pdf

[SDCAL]

It may be possible to put a plus 500 plus ft building in east Village... I have the official document that shows it (Pages 51 thru 53) (has a nice little illustration too) There may a slice land in east Village just south of Petco park. JMI's project "ball park village". Here are some points of interest...

http://www.san.org/documents/aluc/SDIA_ALUCP.pdf

- City of San diego actually set the high limit at 500ft

-The zone is actually 2.3 miles from the runway

-There has to be a 300ft buffer height added

Wow, I have been looking for official concrete documentation for some time, I have to hand it to you, ecxellent research in finding this!!!!!

It looks like some of East Village is outside that radius (see map on page 6 of the document, page 52 of the PDF and text on the previous pages)

The document seems pretty clear to me that the FAA restrictions only include areas within the radius

It also specifies that if structures propose to go higher within the radius this would require "new analysis of the circling approach minima" with the possibility of raising the circling approach minima to accomodate "construction of new buildings or changes to existing buildings resulting in higher obstructions of the circling approach".

The flexibility seems to be in that the circling minimum is a number that can vary, and for Lindbergh field it is 800 ft. Since a 300 ft buffer is required, the 500ft structure limit was established. The wording of this document makes it sound like there could be future consideration to raise the 800ft minima to allow for higher structures. It looks like this is periodically reviewed and ammended slightly, the most recent being 4-Oct-2004 according to the document.

This might explain why in the future renderings of the San Diego Skyline for 2030, it look slike there are taller buildings. Maybe it is assumed that as the city grows, even if Lindbergh does not move, the need for taller structures will arise and the FAA may need to ammend the minimum circling height

As for the areas of East Village not in the circling radius, it looks like they should be able to go above 500ft now if they wanted!!?

[Derek]

Excellent research!

[eburress]

Maybe North Island is the killer?

Yes, I think North Island is the killer.

[SDDTProspector]

Here is The North Island feasibilty study for the airport replacement....

There is NO "verbage" about Height Restrictions, unlike the Lindberg field proposal.... Just talks about Noise Polution

http://www.san.org/documents/aluc/NAS_North_Island_ALUCP_NOC.pdf

My observation is that North island would be very bad choice for an airport replacement if you read it!!!!!!:tup:

[eburress]

^^ An airport on Coronado is such an absolute waste. I look forward to North Island closing and I hope that's not where SD eventually decides to build a new airport (not that SD is ever going to build a new airport anyway).

[SDCAL]

It doesn't look like Miramar will be available anytime in the near, or according to this a-hole form the navy, long-term future

Winter to San Diego: Miramar is off limits

By Gidget Fuentes - Staff writer
Posted : Wednesday May 16, 2007 21:14:10 EDT

SAN DIEGO — Navy Secretary Donald C. Winter thought he heard the last of the fury last year from local officials who’ve long been hot to get their hands on Miramar Marine Corps Air Station to convert into an international airport.

But when he arrived for a breakfast meeting of the regional business group on Wednesday, among the fact sheets and other items of note Winter saw was an issuance from the regional airport authority, the de facto leader of the still-unsuccessful fight to get Miramar and convert it for civilian use.

During his first visit here last year as Navy secretary, Winter tackled numerous questions about Miramar and possibilities of joint or civilian use. Local voters rejected the idea in a countywide ballot last year, which was a symbolic gesture since Navy officials weren’t offering Miramar for any alternate uses.

But the first question posed to him during Wednesday’s question-and-answer session with chamber members was an echo of the recent past: Will Miramar fit into the region’s long-term plans for a larger airport?

The question came a day after the Federal Aviation Administration singled out San Diego’s Lindbergh Field, a single-runway downtown airport, as one of 14 civilian airports nationwide that will need more capacity between now and 2025.

“There are no plans whatsoever,” responded Winter, speaking before several hundred attending a monthly gathering of the San Diego Military Affairs Council at the Admiral Kidd Club. “Miramar is now and forever will be critical” to support the Navy and the Marine Corps.”

Years of base closures and realignments have left little room to change that view since the Navy and Marine Corps have fewer air bases and airfields for training and operations, he explained. “We have truly lost the elasticity of the facilities,” he noted. “We just don’t have the flexibility that we used to.”

Sitting down with several reporters after the breakfast, the Miramar question remained on Winter’s radar.

“I really thought the Miramar issue was behind us,” he said, surprised at the lack of understanding some community members have of the military.

Miramar’s importance, he said, isn’t just to support the short-term needs of the Marine Corps and other military forces continuing to fight and operate in Iraq and in the Persian Gulf region. The services must deal with the long-term demands of supporting and sustaining military operations and missions on a global scale, more so “than we did in the Cold War” era

[eburress]

Those dirty DOD/Department of the Navy/Marine Corps BASTARDS!!!*







*as a former Marine/DON/DOD person, I get to talk trash :)

[Derek]

Shouldn't the Marines have a little compassion? After all, we allow them to use our city land.

[spoonman]

SDDTProspector;2848819]It may be possible to put a plus 500 plus ft building in east Village... I have the official document that shows it (Pages 51 thru 53) (has a nice little illustration too) There may a slice land in east Village just south of Petco park. JMI's project "ball park village". Here are some points of interest...

http://www.san.org/documents/aluc/SDIA_ALUCP.pdf

- City of San diego actually set the high limit at 500ft

-The zone is actually 2.3 miles from the runway

-There has to be a 300ft buffer height added


I've been on this forum a long time, and I recall having a discussion about 2 years ago that was about the city raising the height limit from 500' to 700', but that the FAA still was stuck on 500'. I believe somewhere in the downtown plan on CCDC it mentions this, but I could be wrong. From what you have told us, it sounds as though the FAA could be on board but that the city is dragging it's heels. How typical would it be for San Diego if the city was ok with 700' and the FAA was ok with taller buildings too, but nobody stopped to figure it out...how very San Diego!

[spoonman]

Derek, I don't think they see it that way...

It's my opinion that they believe we are a bunch of spoiled urbanites who wish they'd leave

[dl3000]

I wish theyd leave.

[bmfarley]

It doesn't look like Miramar will be available anytime in the near, or according to this a-hole form the navy, long-term future

Winter to San Diego: Miramar is off limits

By Gidget Fuentes - Staff writer
Posted : Wednesday May 16, 2007 21:14:10 EDT

SAN DIEGO — Navy Secretary Donald C. Winter thought he heard the last of the fury last year from local officials who’ve long been hot to get their hands on Miramar Marine Corps Air Station to convert into an international airport.

But when he arrived for a breakfast meeting of the regional business group on Wednesday, among the fact sheets and other items of note Winter saw was an issuance from the regional airport authority, the de facto leader of the still-unsuccessful fight to get Miramar and convert it for civilian use.

During his first visit here last year as Navy secretary, Winter tackled numerous questions about Miramar and possibilities of joint or civilian use. Local voters rejected the idea in a countywide ballot last year, which was a symbolic gesture since Navy officials weren’t offering Miramar for any alternate uses.

But the first question posed to him during Wednesday’s question-and-answer session with chamber members was an echo of the recent past: Will Miramar fit into the region’s long-term plans for a larger airport?

The question came a day after the Federal Aviation Administration singled out San Diego’s Lindbergh Field, a single-runway downtown airport, as one of 14 civilian airports nationwide that will need more capacity between now and 2025.

“There are no plans whatsoever,” responded Winter, speaking before several hundred attending a monthly gathering of the San Diego Military Affairs Council at the Admiral Kidd Club. “Miramar is now and forever will be critical” to support the Navy and the Marine Corps.”

Years of base closures and realignments have left little room to change that view since the Navy and Marine Corps have fewer air bases and airfields for training and operations, he explained. “We have truly lost the elasticity of the facilities,” he noted. “We just don’t have the flexibility that we used to.”

Sitting down with several reporters after the breakfast, the Miramar question remained on Winter’s radar.

“I really thought the Miramar issue was behind us,” he said, surprised at the lack of understanding some community members have of the military.

Miramar’s importance, he said, isn’t just to support the short-term needs of the Marine Corps and other military forces continuing to fight and operate in Iraq and in the Persian Gulf region. The services must deal with the long-term demands of supporting and sustaining military operations and missions on a global scale, more so “than we did in the Cold War” era
I maintain that if SD was willing to build a replacement to Miramar to the same standards as Miramar has today... that they just may be willing to relocate... and leave Miramar avialable for a commercial airport. It is unrealistic to think any thing less, in my opinion.

And I nominate Ramona as a candidate site.

[Derek]

Ramona? How so?

[bmfarley]

Ramona? How so?What do you mean? There's already an airport out there.... What? Do you expect me to have plans already ready?

[Derek]

I don't know the area well. I don't get up there much. Can you show me a map or something suggesting where it will go?

(Sorry, I don't even know where the airport is or how much land is there. :()

[bmfarley]

I don't know the area well. I don't get up there much. Can you show me a map or something suggesting where it will go?

(Sorry, I don't even know where the airport is or how much land is there. :()Well... it would probably be easier to go to google maps and look at an aerial of Ramona. Look to the west of Ramona for the airport.

I am only suggesting it as a candidate to consider. I have no idea how practical it would be for military purposes given surrounding hills or mountains, or the ability of the town to support a military presence.

[Derek]

Alright, thank you.:)

[SDCAL]

Shouldn't the Marines have a little compassion? After all, we allow them to use our city land.

Hahahahahahaha :jester:

Compassion? When in the short history of the city of San Diego has the military had compassion?? Every major issue they have had a hand in has been specifically tailored to addresseing the needs of the military ONLY, they don't care about the city's development.

The question one has to ask themselves in fairness over this issue is does the military need this SPECIFIC site for what they do there, or could the purposes be served somewhere else? When the military first established a presenece in San Diego, it was a small town and it seemed like a logical navy loaction because it was on a bay and well to the south of California's urabn areas. Now that San Diego IS an urban area, the bastards in charge refuse to budge. The question is how practical is it to have such a large military base in a large, rapidly expanding metropolitan area? The military may have alot of local supporters, but they should watch out because when we get to the point where the airport is not functional and the city begins losing revenue, their refusal to budge on the airport issue will become a PR nightmare for them, and rightfully so!!!!!!

They can most certainly move, they have WAY more options in terms of where they can move than the airport does for where it can move fair is fair

[Derek]

Oh, don't worry I was being sarcastic.:)


But no, I don't think they need this specific site. For the exact reasons you listed above.

[Marina_Guy]

The military may have alot of local supporters...

Unfortunately for the foreseeable future, I don't think San Diego has the guts to stand up to the military. San Diego's voting patterns and culture suggest this. The region had a chance to diversify more in the 1990's, but world events since then have impacted our chance to break free of the defense department and the military industrial complex. Many are afraid to say no to military $$$. I could say a lot more. But I'll be quiet!

[IconRPCV]

Unfortunately the military and its industrial complex are all that is keeping our nation afloat. If we were to cut back on them, which will never happen with the current party in power, our economy would implode. However our nation will continue to stagnate, much like what will happen to San Diego without a new airport, until we do so. As an educator I can only dream of the day when we will spend billions for our children instead of billions for the military.

That being said I am not badmouthing any of our brave soldiers in the military, just the complex making them die needlessly to keep some fat cat oil barons rich.

[dl3000]

Many are afraid to say no to military $$$. I could say a lot more. But I'll be quiet!

Id say a lot things that would boil down to "get out." If we had a great airport, the economy should not be affected that much. Don't get me started on foreign policy.

[eburress]

Id say a lot things that would boil down to "get out." If we had a great airport, the economy should not be affected that much.

San Diego worrying about losing military money is comparable to a crappy-ass small town worried about losing their prison and the money it provides. You'd think "America's Finest City" would be above worrying about losing military money.

And yes, if SD had a decent airport, it wouldn't need military money.

[sandiegodweller]

San Diego worrying about losing military money is comparable to a crappy-ass small town worried about losing their prison and the money it provides. You'd think "America's Finest City" would be above worrying about losing military money.

And yes, if SD had a decent airport, it wouldn't need military money.
Are you serious?

The yearly economic impact of each of the 3 aircraft carriers (2 current, 1 planned) is equal to the amount that a Super Bowl brings to a city.

Can you name one other industry currently in San Diego that comes close?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070330/news_1n30ship.html

"In January, the Greater San Diego Chamber of Commerce released a study showing that Pentagon spending supports nearly one in every five jobs from San Ysidro to Oceanside. It estimated the military's annual economic impact at $20 billion – about 65 percent of it from the Navy."

[SDDTProspector]

San Diego is now being held back by the alcholic father that won't leave the sons house and find somewhere to else crash........:slob:

The military is a double edged sword it helped it grow up but now is it biggest obstacle for growth....

Plan and simple........

[Marina_Guy]

Rise of the Iron Horses
As airplane operations decline, San Diego might consider following the example of the world's most accomplished investor.
By Gary Sutton
Voice of San Diego

Wednesday, May 23, 2007 | Warren Buffett is the smartest investor in the world. His latest moves show San Diego how to think about our airport.

Buffett, by the way, became the second richest guy in America by simply seeing farther than the rest of us. He didn't invent anything or inherit money or start something or create a monopoly or catch some overnight fad. Decade after decade, he just figured out what was going to happen in the future and bought shares accordingly.

Start by knowing that Buffett loves airplanes. He once joked that he hoped to be buried in his private jet. But soon the guy fell in love with charter services, so he bought the biggest one, NetJets.

Now these aren't huge planes, these are smaller birds that often use the secondary airports sprinkled across our county. And the smart money, from people who are spending their own, are developing whole new fleets of lightweight jets, anticipating the future is going that way. (Spectrum Aeronautical, at Palomar Airport, is already taking orders for 2009 deliveries. And they have six competitors with small jets in test phase or on drawing boards, but financed.)

Buffett, of course, doesn't own any airline stocks. He's not into losing money. So what's he investing in today?

Have a seat, please.

Railroads. Yes, the old iron horses. Buffett's recently put billions into the major railroads. That's billions, with a "b."

Of course Buffett gets around. Maybe he saw how Europe, having $5 per gallon gas (in liter equivalents) for several decades, has adapted. It's a more compact continent, for sure, but the prevalence of train travel in Europe versus America is stunning. And heads don't turn over there when a business suit and briefcase putt-putt past on a Moped.

Perhaps Buffett noticed that in the long haul, decade after decade, the price of a gallon of gas here seems to go in one direction. That direction would not be down. Or, being a number-cruncher, it could be that one of Buffett's analysts has gone through the Official Airline Guide archives, and noticed a trend. That trend being fewer North American flights, year after year, for the past 10.

Certainly Buffett's aware that places like Palomar Airport, Gillespie Field, Montgomery Field, Brown Field, Borrego Valley Airport, Agua Caliente Airport, Fallbrook Airport, Jacumba Airport, Ramona Airport and Octillo Airport are quiet, peaceful and underused patches of concrete.

Could it be that Buffett also noticed that traffic is down at Lindbergh Field?

Yup. You read that right. Lindbergh's traffic is down.

Using the airport's published documents, the total takeoffs and landing for 2006 were 220,839. Dig back into the oldest published prior year, 1999, and you'll see that Lindbergh Field handled 222,354 takeoffs and landings back then. Call this anything but don't call it growth.

And this isn't peculiar to San Diego.

Government officials, those folks who spend other people's money, somehow haven't paid excessive attention to these numbers. The airport boosters hired PR folks who spun new phrases like the "Nation's Busiest Single Runway Airport" to fog over the facts. Kind of reminds one of that "Weapons of Mass Destruction" thing, eh?

Passenger counts are up, however, and that's no surprise to anybody who's flown lately. Have you seen an empty seat? Me neither. Will that change? Not when empty seats and rising fuel costs shove the airlines into deeper losses.

Boeing's fighting this fuel expense, like the new little jets are, with composite materials for their 787 Dreamliner. This'll save about 20 percent in fuel per mile over today's airliners. At current rates of increase for oil, however, that falls way short of keeping up. So costs per flight mile will jump anyway.

And get this, the multi-million dollar forecasts San Diego paid for, predicting airport growth, all assumed ticket prices will drop. Don't we wish? The single biggest variable expense for any airplane is fuel. Most airlines are losing money at current prices. So where would you guess tickets are headed from here?

Well, Boeing's currently benefiting from the Airbus debacle, and is getting strong Dreamliner orders. But Boeing showed prototypes with more comfortable seating, trying to alleviate passenger complaints, with a rather cool alignment of staggered seats, eight across. Everybody loved the layout. The problem is, hardly anybody bought that configuration. Most airlines insisted, with their orders, that Boeing shove the seats back together, nine across, for up to 330 bodies wedged into a flight. And unless they want to go bankrupt, they'll need to pack every one. And unless the Arabs and our pal in Venzuela slash the price of oil, fares still must go up.

Look at this from a local economic perspective. San Diego's biggest business is tourism. Our image is world class. Imagine flying into Lindbergh for the first time. If you're on the left window, you see a sparkling bay, a graceful bridge and a dramatic skyline coming in. From the right, it's Balboa Park. Stepping out, you're tranquilized by a salty sea breeze. During that harbor drive, the masts seem to wave hello to you, welcome, visitors. You hear boats and waves.

If you're a tourist or conventioneer, chances are your hotel's minutes away. There's not a more convenient airport in the country -- nestled near to a resurgent downtown.

Yes, some business growth went to North County and the UTC area. And Miramar, one of the prior wet dreams, would've been more convenient for those travelers. But North County's growth was recently eclipsed by the South Bay, neutering that argument.

Just imagine visiting for the first time, but landing at Miramar. On the port window, you see our landfill and the nation's largest RV dealer. To the starboard, it's franchise row and furniture stores mixed with adult entertainment. Upon exit, a waft of desert air dries your nose, with hints of smog and you hear the sounds of jammed traffic on the I-15 and the 805. This introduces a different San Diego to our visitors.

Sure, there are common-sense things like diverting more commuter routes to the smaller airports and shifting freight to the emptiness at Brown Field. But that misses the big picture: takeoffs and landings are dropping. There is no problem. Okay, should the price of oil drop in half and stay there, then Warren Buffett's a dummy and we would suffer from airport constipation.

If the new airport commission could just take their $170,000 salaries and do nothing, we'll all benefit. That's strange advice in a city and state that are going broke, but that last gang of bobbleheads spent $17 million trying to convince us the end was near.

Remember that?

Lavish entertainment expenses rang up while examining the Borrego Springs airport. No mention of the fact that Borrego's average summer temperatures mean a commercial plane cannot takeoff from there with a full load of fuel ... from a location that's 15 miles further from downtown San Diego than John Wayne Airport. That gaggle of bandits actually reviewed Borrego with straight faces.

Brown Field, unused, got no such lavish inspection since it's tougher to justify overnights when they're nearby, and the wine cellars there lean towards screw-top varietals. Sure, putting air freight out there makes sense, but much of that stuff comes and goes during off-peak times, making the relief minor. On the other hand, since freight takes space to load, warehouse and truck, the handling expenses would drop with that cheaper real estate.

March Air Force Base? No ridicule needed. That lunacy is self-evident.

Imperial Valley with a high speed rail? When we can't even get high speed rail through to LA, with 250,000 cars going both ways every day? The suburban NIMBYs killed that LA idea, and can't you hear the back-packers and environmentalists shriek if they hear plans for a bullet train slashing through our eastern slopes?

So perhaps the previous commission thought that, by studying the bizarre, it would make Miramar appear inevitable. One surprise was something that nobody noticed. That came when Duncan Hunter pointed out that Miramar is critical for the Marines when they start training with the F-35.

The F-35?

That's a vertical takeoff and landing airplane. It should operate from an oversized driveway.

So, we see Warren Buffett thinking the price of fuel is going up. He's betting his own money and shareholders'. Small airplane makers think security lines at big airports and underused regional airports will build their market. They're betting their own money and some investors'. Airlines, wanting to reduce flights to fill cabins tighter, are configuring their new aircraft to do so, in the belief that fuel prices will continue up. They're betting their jobs and shareholders' money.

Government officials, spending your tax dollars, believe the price of fuel will drop, bringing down air fares and building commercial air traffic.

Who would you bet on being right?

Gary Sutton is a retired CEO. He is the author of "Corporate Canaries Avoid Business Disasters with a Coal Miner's Secrets." Send a letter to the editor.

[eburress]

Can you name one other industry currently in San Diego that comes close?

"In January, the Greater San Diego Chamber of Commerce released a study showing that Pentagon spending supports nearly one in every five jobs from San Ysidro to Oceanside. It estimated the military's annual economic impact at $20 billion – about 65 percent of it from the Navy."

That's my point. SD currently is very dependent upon the military but it doesn't have to be that way. They could have an airport, corporate expansion, higher paying jobs, etc...

[sandiegodweller]

That's my point. SD currently is very dependent upon the military but it doesn't have to be that way. They could have an airport, corporate expansion, higher paying jobs, etc...
Where would you suggest that the Naval Pacific Fleet and the Marine Corps relocate?

[bmfarley]

fwiw... the piece in the Voice is an opinion piece. I think some of the information, although may be factual, may tell a different story than reality.

My disclaimer... I don't know the truth about the airport projections right now.... but the obvious is that passenger boardings are up.

If landings/takeoffs are flat... that means current planes are carrying more people. The functionality of Lindbergh is tied to runway capacity, or takeoffs/landings. Sooner or later the demand for bigger planes to carry more people will collide with the runway length being too short.... and then more demand for more takeoffs/landings. If more planes cannot gain access to Lindbergh... then the laws of supply and demand tell us prices go up.

We've already heard from someone else that since bigger planes cannot use Lindbergh, then direct flights distant locations are not booked.

[ucsbgaucho]

I would think there's someone at some of these papers, the U-T, NC Times, Business Journal, etc that we could email and push them to do a little investigation on the height limit matter, find out whether the city is working on it, who's really holding back, are developers even interested in going higher than 500', etc. Would make for an interesting story!

[Derek]

The Navy and the Marines can stay and should stay. The naval facilities (save thier ugly ones downtown, and luckily they are being replaced) are fine where they are and I love seeing the huge ships in the bay. But Miramar is just such a bad spot for the Marine Corps. I support them, but not where the base is.

[spoonman]

Does anyone have updated pics of Electra, Aria, etc. that can be posted on the Projects forum?

[mello]

Ok here is a more reasonable solution for the Marine Corps to relocate the operations that they perform at Miramar. The March Air Force Reserve (Station/Whatever).... That location is still fairly islolated along the I 15 corridor (or is it 215 always get them confused)

Anyway that airstation is stagnating and in a fairly isolated spot compared to Miramar. Why not shift the operations that are done at Miramar to March??? It seems perfectly reasonable to me. It is still very close to Pendelton. I know that the military always says that they have "symetry" between Miramar and Pendelton, this can be maintained if operations are shifted to March.

Like you all have said we can all "get along" if we compromise, Marines MOVE ON to March and let San Diego grow and prosper. This is also a strategic metro area along the Pacific Rim and Southern California needs another Mega Airport to handle future growth. Imagine LAX and San Diego both pumping out massive amounts of flights, worries will go away and the region can thrive! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :cheers:

[Derek]

I think it's the 215, but anyways...


That is a good idea! I like it. You are a good thinker. Now if we only had more power.:(

[Marina_Guy]

fwiw... the piece in the Voice is an opinion piece. I think some of the information, although may be factual, may tell a different story than reality.


Here are the numbers... Directly from the San Diego Airport Authority's consultant report.

http://www.san.org/airport_authority/airport_master_plan/forecast_summary.asp

Maybe someone can find 04, 05 and 06 numbers to see if the pattern has changed. But it looks pretty flat to me...


Commercial Airlines
Air Air Percent
Year Carrier Taxi Subtotal Civil Military Total Change
1980 65,235 28,857 94,092 48,978 3,621 146,691 -
1981 59,497 35,320 94,817 40,200 2,329 137,346 -6.4%
1982 65,447 32,437 97,884 32,985 2,822 133,691 -2.7%
1983 73,531 32,773 106,304 32,778 2,838 141,920 6.2%
1984 88,726 25,417 114,143 34,490 2,899 151,532 6.8%
1985 101,544 23,858 125,402 33,200 3,810 162,412 7.2%
1986 116,677 20,253 136,930 29,278 3,887 170,095 4.7%
1987 127,723 41,027 168,750 25,336 4,097 198,183 16.5%
1988 134,095 41,337 175,432 24,873 4,283 204,588 3.2%
1989 133,060 46,484 179,544 23,525 4,319 207,388 1.4%
1990 132,561 51,984 184,545 23,238 4,531 212,314 2.4%
1991 132,381 49,616 181,997 20,934 4,276 207,207 -2.4%
1992 130,892 54,273 185,165 22,378 5,479 213,022 2.8%
1993 137,879 45,628 183,507 19,860 5,239 208,606 -2.1%
1994 141,968 51,697 193,665 21,536 5,845 221,046 6.0%
1995 138,728 64,198 202,926 19,027 5,041 226,994 2.7%
1996 145,275 57,498 202,773 16,779 6,511 226,063 -0.4%
1997 150,847 54,770 205,617 16,034 2,817 224,468 -0.7%
1998 148,472 56,413 204,885 16,114 2,258 223,257 -0.5%
1999 148,173 56,298 204,471 16,847 1,036 222,354 -0.4%
2000 153,314 37,097 190,411 15,708 770 206,889 -7.0%
2001 148,280 43,808 192,088 13,396 1,504 206,988 0.0%
2002 144,737 45,346 190,083 15,044 1,253 206,380 -0.3%
2003 141,702 45,797 187,499 14,535 1,251 203,285 -1.5%
Average Annual Growth
1980-1990 7.3% 6.1% 7.0% -7.2% 2.3% 3.8%
1990-2002 0.7% -1.1% 0.2% -3.6% -10.2% -0.2%
1980-2002 3.7% 2.1% 3.2% -5.2% -4.7% 1.6%

[eburress]

Where would you suggest that the Naval Pacific Fleet and the Marine Corps relocate?

I'm not saying they all have to leave, but if they did, I don't know or care where they go. About Miramar specifically, I don't think the Marines need to be 7 miles from downtown. Consolidating at Pendleton, some of the other local air stations, or even more inland would serve the same purpose.

[dl3000]

^Hear hear.

And the article on railroads, that definitely is the future but in America it is harder to pull off, but someday... In the meantime, air travel is up across the board since 9/11 and it will continue to grow, and San Diego is on the outside looking in, until a new multirunway airport is built.

[SDDTProspector]

Topic 1:
Does anyone know what the time for the Fully realized harbor Front Design and why is was not added to the North Embarcadero Visionary Plan that was past a year or two ago? I know it was expensive but it should of been atleast added to the general plan.....

http://www.sasaki.com/what/portfolio.cgi?fid=279&region=4&page=2

Topic 2:
I have heard of this proposal about a ChinaTown district in Downtown San Diego. I don't know if its in the design stage and just fell off the radar for CCDC, but I did find a link a developer was using.

http://www.fehlmanlabarre.com/#projects


Topic 3:
Is this a backdoor plan if San Diego does not get its airport? A high speed rail system to LA? The guess there are several proposals on the table here one....

http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/

and

01.30.2007
Sasaki On Board as Part of LA-to-San Diego Rail Project
Sasaki Associates is part of a multi-disciplinary team of designers and engineers, led by HNTB Corporation, that was recently chosen to provide design services for the Los Angeles-to-San Diego portion of the California High Speed Rail Project. Sasaki's San Francisco office will provide urban design, station area planning and architectural design services for the team. For more information on this project visit:

http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov

[PadreHomer]

NIMBYS killed Brown Field. A real pity there.

[eburress]

I always really loved that waterfront proposal of theirs. Too bad it never happened.

[Derek]

I really wish downtown had a stronger Chinese influence and a nice little Chinatown. :(

[sandiego_urban]

Just some random stuff I snapped from the webcams today -

Gaslamp
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/gaslamp23.jpg

East Village
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/ev-10.jpg

Another view towards East Village
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/ev-20.jpg

Banker's Hill, looking North towards Hillcrest
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/bankers23-1.jpg

The area is starting to show some height, as well.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/bankers23-2.jpg

How cool would it be to have a freeway lid here that leads directly into Balboa Park?
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/balbo23.jpg

Thank goodness for view corridors
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/view23.jpg

A real city shot
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/trolley.jpg

Diegan tops out at 23 floors
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/diegan23.jpg

A rapidly densifying Little Italy, with the "Evil" airport runway in the background.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/litit23-1.jpg

Enjoy this view now before Bayside and Sapphire go up
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/baysapp23.jpg

5 cranes on 3 blocks (Sapphire Tower, Bayside and Breeza)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/5cranes23-2.jpg

Children's Museum construction
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/childrens23-1.jpg

[eburress]

^^ Thanks for posting! It won't be long until Sapphire, Bayside and Breeza make it out of the ground.

[stockjock]

I really wish downtown had a stronger Chinese influence and a nice little Chinatown. :(

You know, I was just thinking that a couple of days ago. I work near Horton Plaza and took a walk to Little Italy for lunch. I started thinking about New York's Little Italy which is right next to NY's Chinatown. Then I thought, "San Diego has considerable Chinese heritage dating back more than 100 years, particularly in the area south of Market Street and slightly northwest of Morton's Steakhouse. Why don't they make an effort to expand that and turn it into a real Chinatown?"

[Derek]

It seems like Rancho Penasquitos is San Diego's Chinatown! :jester:

There are more chinese sings there than anywhere else in the city.

[eburress]

More than Kearny Mesa or Manila Mesa?

[Derek]

Possibly? I was only making a joke of course and is in no way a fact. :)

[bmfarley]

Topic 3:
Is this a backdoor plan if San Diego does not get its airport? A high speed rail system to LA? The guess there are several proposals on the table here one....

http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov

Is this a backdoor plan? Where have you been? The California High Speed Rail Authority is a state agency that has been in existence since 1996; long before Lindbergh was projected to have capacity problems. Their charge has been to examine, plan and design a high speed rail system for California linking all the major city's with trains that can link Socal with Norcal in as little as 2 hours and 30 minutes... or something like that.

With that said, CaHSR will not save San Diego. At best, it will decrease demand for in-state air-travel by shifting it to trains. I don't know.... nor anybody probably knows... is that by how much will it decrease demand at Lindbergh and push back the theoritical year that it supposedly reaches capacity.

[edluva]

You know, I was just thinking that a couple of days ago. I work near Horton Plaza and took a walk to Little Italy for lunch. I started thinking about New York's Little Italy which is right next to NY's Chinatown. Then I thought, "San Diego has considerable Chinese heritage dating back more than 100 years, particularly in the area south of Market Street and slightly northwest of Morton's Steakhouse. Why don't they make an effort to expand that and turn it into a real Chinatown?"

because there are no chinese people. cities are organic. remember, NY's, and virtually all other cities' chinatowns evolved, they didn't become chinatowns just because some city planners decided to create a cute little tourist trap 150 years ago.

LA had considerable Italian heritage some 100 yrs ago, but you don't see a little italy now for a good reason - all those italians either assimilated, or dispersed, and italian immigration tapered off.

[mongoXZ]

And like the Chinese fled LA's Chinatown for Monterey Park & SGV virtually all Chinese in San Diego are in the burbs. If you noticed in the area where the Horton Grand is they did make efforts to remake that place as a historic Chinatown with Chinese street lamps and lettering on some of the buildings. But those efforts are pretty much futile.

Don't forget our other ethnic enclaves (as much as I hate to coin that term). . . Linda Vista is Little Vietnam. Paradise Valley is Filipinotown. South Park is Braziltown. A 5 block radius in Southern Chula Vista is considered Samoatown. And San Ysidro Blvd is American Tijuana.:D

[SDCAL]

because there are no chinese people. cities are organic. remember, NY's, and virtually all other cities' chinatowns evolved, they didn't become chinatowns just because some city planners decided to create a cute little tourist trap 150 years ago.

LA had considerable Italian heritage some 100 yrs ago, but you don't see a little italy now for a good reason - all those italians either assimilated, or dispersed, and italian immigration tapered off.

It can have to do with city planning, and there are Chinese people here, as well as large Filipino and Vietnamese communities. In fact, historically downtown SD did have a Chinatown and Japanese community, many of whom made their lives in the fishing industry (much like the original Italians of Little Italy who were tuna fisherman). Due to the idea of an urban core and central density being a very new phemonenon here, the downtown Chinese/Japanese community didn't survive as San Diego's downtown became a red-light district for sailors and the Asian communiteis ended up fleeing to the suburbs - Mira Mesa area mainly, but East San Diego for some Vietnamese neighborhoods and National City for some Filipino neighborhoods. If San Diego had the pro-urban core development policies of today in place back then and if downtown wasn't allowed to become a seedy neighborhood nobody wanted to live in for decades, it's reasonable to assume the Chinatown would have grown into a sizeable urban Chinese neighborhood even with the ma and pop fishing industry demise.

As another poster highlighted, the site of this Chinese community was around J and 3rd, the area near the Chinese Cultural Museum (where you can get cool information on the history of SDs Chinatown). The CCDC has dubbed the region the "Asia-Pacific Thematic District" and there are still some apartment buildings in the area that house seniors who lived there during the time the Chinatown was in existance, but of course there is very little left today :( It would be nice if a Chinese food market would open up there, I know I would be a patron :)

[SDCAL]

**SAN DIEGO GETS THE SHAFT BY CA GOVERNMENT HIGH-SPEED RAIL PLAN***

Half-speed ahead for bullet train
L.A., Bay Area on route, but San Diego, others dropped
BY HARRISON SHEPPARD, Sacramento Bureau
Article Last Updated: 05/23/2007 10:17:29 PM PDT


Click photo to enlarge«1»

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


VIEW: Train Network Phasing Plan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SACRAMENTO - Travelers in Anaheim, Los Angeles and the Bay Area will be first to ride the state's multibillion-dollar bullet train - if it ever gets built - the rail agency decided Wednesday.

The California High-Speed Rail Authority board, which is pursuing the project in several segments, decided to build first in areas that are expected to have the highest ridership and generate the most revenue.

That means that while the first segment could open by 2017, stops in San Diego, Irvine, the Inland Empire and Sacramento - which have been on earlier plans - will be postponed for years after that date.

"If we wish to do something, we need to figure out how to start moving forward in bite-sized pieces - pieces that have true ends," said board member Curt Pringle, the mayor of Anaheim. "I think this is an appropriate way to focus and move forward."

Under the plan approved Wednesday, the first segment would start in Anaheim, then stop in downtown Los Angeles, Burbank, Sylmar and Palmdale before heading up through the Central Valley to the San Francisco Bay Area.

With bullet trains operating at speeds up to 220 mph, the express travel time between Los Angeles and San Francisco is roughly 2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Advertisement

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hours, according to the authority.
The authority board has yet to chose between two potential routes through Northern California or name specific stops in the Bay Area.

Decades struggle

High-speed rail in California - now estimated to cost $40 billion - has struggled for decades to gain public support and funding, and once again is facing the threat of a setback.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is trying to slash the authority's operating budget and postpone a $10 billion bond measure that is tentatively slated for 2008. The bond measure had originally been scheduled for a vote in 2004, but the Legislature has already postponed it twice.

Schwarzenegger has said he supports the concept of high-speed rail, but thinks the authority has to do more planning before it can receive major funding.

In fact, authority members Wednesday discussed a financing plan that they acknowledged was very general and lacked commitments from the private sector or the federal government.

"The authority needs to come up with a strong financing plan on where that additional revenue is going to come from, before we move forward with the bond," said Adam Mendelsohn, spokesman for the governor.

"He's absolutely committed to high-speed rail, believes it's critical for California's infrastructure growth, but also believes it's in the best interest of taxpayers that there be a strong financing plan developed before the additional revenue is put forward."

The Legislature is holding hearings to consider restoring at least some of the authority's operating funding for next year.

The authority was divided 5-2 in its decision Wednesday to pick an initial segment.

San Diego left out

Board member Lynn Schenk, a former congresswoman from San Diego, objected to her city being left off the initial route. Member Jeff Crane, an adviser to the governor, opposed the plan because he felt the project should have a more specific financing plan first.

Schenk, who has been involved in high-speed rail since the 1970s, said the San Diego-to-Los Angeles segment would be heavily traveled and should be part of the first stage.

"I believe by adopting the entire corridor as the first phase, we can get there much more quickly," Schenk said. "I can't vote for any plan approval that will leave San Diego in the high-speed rail dustbin of history."

But the board's executive director, Mehdi Moshed, said several areas along the Southern California route are difficult to plan right now.

Regional governmental groups in San Diego and Los Angeles are studying privately funded proposals to build high-speed rail systems using magnetic levitation technology, which would be incompatible with the steel-wheel technique included in the authority's plan.

He also said that heavy development in those areas makes it more difficult to choose a route for the line. He argued that those questions should be resolved before moving forward with planning a segment in that region.

[SDCAL]

**WHY WON'T THEY PROCEED WITH THE NEW LIBRARY, IT WILL NEED TO BE DONE EVENTUALLY AND GETS MORE EXPENSIVE EACH YEAR THEY PUT IT OFF***

Report urges funding for new San Diego library

By: North County Times wire services -
Last modified Tuesday, May 22, 2007 7:18 PM PDT --

SAN DIEGO - A new central library should be among the top funding priorities in the San Diego city budget, according to a grand jury report released Tuesday.

The projected cost of a new library is approaching $200 million, with about $80 million available from the Centre City Development Corp. and $20 million from the state, the report said.

To augment the existing monies, the grand jury recommends issuing bonds to raise the rest of the money needed.


The report also recommends that the San Diego Library Foundation continue its fund-raising to add to the $3 million already received or pledged.

As envisioned, the new central library would have about four times as many computers as the 84 at the existing library, where there are too few to meet demand, according to the grand jury report.

The current library is not up to earthquake standards, and the cost to rewire the building to accommodate high-speed computer connections would not be cost effective, according to the report.

In the report's conclusion, the staff of San Diego's Central Library was commended for "its continued efforts to provide acceptable library services despite multiple shortcomings."

[eburress]

^^ Because the city has no money?

[bmfarley]

**SAN DIEGO GETS THE SHAFT BY CA GOVERNMENT HIGH-SPEED RAIL PLAN***

Half-speed ahead for bullet train
L.A., Bay Area on route, but San Diego, others dropped
BY HARRISON SHEPPARD, Sacramento Bureau
Article Last Updated: 05/23/2007 10:17:29 PM PDT

Oh my gosh... what a nut job of a headline! The project, if it is to occur, would be the largest publics works project in the history of California. It will take several years to build. If done at once, it would overwhelm the labor supply and raw materials to the point that costs would balloon out of control. It could not be built in a single phase... certainly logical people realize that! Rome was not built in a day!

I predict that before the first train runs.... the legs to San Diego and Sacramento will already be under construction.

[stockjock]

Back to the "Little Italy" conversation, I wonder if someone could turn part of Logan Heights into "Little Mexico". There's considerable Mexican heritage there, it borders downtown and could breathe life and money into that area, and there's already a core of shops providing food, goods and services that could be built upon.

[SDCAL]

^^ Because the city has no money?

From the article:

'To augment the existing monies, the grand jury recommends issuing bonds to raise the rest of the money needed.'

[SDCAL]

Oh my gosh... what a nut job of a headline! The project, if it is to occur, would be the largest publics works project in the history of California. It will take several years to build. If done at once, it would overwhelm the labor supply and raw materials to the point that costs would balloon out of control. It could not be built in a single phase... certainly logical people realize that! Rome was not built in a day!

I predict that before the first train runs.... the legs to San Diego and Sacramento will already be under construction.

Did you read the story? The only voting memebr on the board from SD voted against it because she felt SD-LA route should be on the intial phase, as it was on the initial plan.

from the article:

Board member Lynn Schenk, a former congresswoman from San Diego, objected to her city being left off the initial route.

Schenk, who has been involved in high-speed rail since the 1970s, said the San Diego-to-Los Angeles segment would be heavily traveled and should be part of the first stage.

I guess she is a nut-job as well for voting no as a protest vote for SD being left off? Have you been involved in high speed rail since the 70s?

[SD_Phil]

Back to the "Little Italy" conversation, I wonder if someone could turn part of Logan Heights into "Little Mexico". There's considerable Mexican heritage there, it borders downtown and could breathe life and money into that area, and there's already a core of shops providing food, goods and services that could be built upon.

I like the idea but i'm not sure how it would work. How different would this be than old town? It might be more "authentic" to locate a latino district where latinos actually live but it seems like so much of the tourist infrastructure is already in old town (i'm thinking of the cheesy mexican souvenirs and the dozens of restaurants).

Insiders know that the real mexican food is found a bit further to the south (and the real and super cheap mexican food farther south still!)

I like the ideas though. San Diego really needs to start thinking of new ways to take advantage of its cultural capital

[bmfarley]

Did you read the story? The only voting memebr on the board from SD voted against it because she felt SD-LA route should be on the intial phase, as it was on the initial plan.

from the article:

Board member Lynn Schenk, a former congresswoman from San Diego, objected to her city being left off the initial route.

Schenk, who has been involved in high-speed rail since the 1970s, said the San Diego-to-Los Angeles segment would be heavily traveled and should be part of the first stage.

I guess she is a nut-job as well for voting no as a protest vote for SD being left off? Have you been involved in high speed rail since the 70s?I spoke to the headline. Yes, I read the article. The headline doesn't match any vibe in San Diego. And although I have heard of her before, gee.... I don't know what she stands for. Until now I suppose. She's not in the local news at all... and I have to question how in-touch she is with San Diegans. In fact, she lives in carlsbad; which really is not San Diego.

Nevertheless, as a taxpayer and many other things, I am fine with the San Diego leg not being in the first phase. I am unaware of there being any qualms here about not being in the first phase. After all, the original bond measure and plan did not include SD in the 1st phase... so why should there be a problem now... all of a sudden.

I believe it will actually work out for the better for San Diego. When the bond is passed for the first phase that is the time to raise questions about alternate routing to get from SD up to LA. If raised now.... before the bond is passed... well, it just creates consternation about the bond measure being scheduled to go to voters. I am saying it would be easier to delay.

In fact, I believe that the pro-Altamont dilemma up north, or anti-Pacheco, caused such a rucus that it was easier to delay the bond measure in 2004 or 2006.

Not being in the first phase may worked out similarly well for Sacramento. Wouldn't it be more practical and time effecient if trains ran down the I80 corridor from Sac and into the Bay Area... vs Altamont? I believe the SD to LA leg should go through Irvine rather than Riverside and San Bernardino. The coast will not work because of NIMBY's opposed to double tracks, aerial stuff, and catenary disturbing their views, but from Temecula or Murrieta the line may be able to cut right and get to Irvine more directly through the mountains. In my opinion that is worth raising as a question when the time is right.

[SDCAL]

I spoke to the headline. Yes, I read the article. The headline doesn't match any vibe in San Diego. And although I have heard of her before, gee.... I don't know what she stands for. Until now I suppose. She's not in the local news at all... and I have to question how in-touch she is with San Diegans. In fact, she lives in carlsbad; which really is not San Diego.

Nevertheless, as a taxpayer and many other things, I am fine with the San Diego leg not being in the first phase. I am unaware of there being any qualms here about not being in the first phase. After all, the original bond measure and plan did not include SD in the 1st phase... so why should there be a problem now... all of a sudden.

I believe it will actually work out for the better for San Diego. When the bond is passed for the first phase that is the time to raise questions about alternate routing to get from SD up to LA. If raised now.... before the bond is passed... well, it just creates consternation about the bond measure being scheduled to go to voters. I am saying it would be easier to delay.

In fact, I believe that the pro-Altamont dilemma up north, or anti-Pacheco, caused such a rucus that it was easier to delay the bond measure in 2004 or 2006.

Not being in the first phase may worked out similarly well for Sacramento. Wouldn't it be more practical and time effecient if trains ran down the I80 corridor from Sac and into the Bay Area... vs Altamont? I believe the SD to LA leg should go through Irvine rather than Riverside and San Bernardino. The coast will not work because of NIMBY's opposed to double tracks, aerial stuff, and catenary disturbing their views, but from Temecula or Murrieta the line may be able to cut right and get to Irvine more directly through the mountains. In my opinion that is worth raising as a question when the time is right.

I see your point, I am just worried about the funding. It is hard enough trying to get money for the first phase (which the governor is standing in the way of saying he supports high speed rail but there needs to be more "research"). If the first phase does somehow get funding, the next phase (that would include the SD and Sac routes) would occur after the first phase, expected to be complete (if funded) in 2017. If the state budget is in the red in 2017, they could pospone the SD line indefinately and we could have LA-SF bennefiting with high speed rail while we sit and wait (as we do for so many other things). I think that as the 2nd larget city in the state and a large commuting population between LA-OC-SD, the LA-SD leg should really be on the first phase. I know people who commute to LA and OC for work, to catch international flights out of LAX, I just think the communting relationship between SD and LA is as busy and important as that between LA and SF

[bushman61988]

Back to the "Little Italy" conversation, I wonder if someone could turn part of Logan Heights into "Little Mexico". There's considerable Mexican heritage there, it borders downtown and could breathe life and money into that area, and there's already a core of shops providing food, goods and services that could be built upon.

Why have a "little Mexico" when the REAL Mexico is about 15 minutes away from Barrio Logan?

Not only that, but the city is close to 50% Mexican and there are tons of little Mexican neighborhoods. We don't need a designated "Little Mexico" if we want something Mexican.

[eburress]

From the article:

'To augment the existing monies, the grand jury recommends issuing bonds to raise the rest of the money needed.'

If the city's only option is issuing bonds, then there is the debate about which projects are most bond-worthy and also the minor detail of getting lame-ass San Diegans to approve it.

I have a feeling a new arena is higher on the city's list of priorities and we all know how "can-do" this city's residents are.

[sandiego_urban]

Not only that, but the city is close to 50% Mexican and there are tons of little Mexican neighborhoods. We don't need a designated "Little Mexico" if we want something Mexican.
It's more like 30%, I believe



Here's the full article on the proposed tallest that I was able to scan. It not going to be the tallest at all, just another one reaching the 500' mean sea level maximum height. I'm getting worried that we'll have so many towers in the 450' - 500' height that there will be no height variation at all. I never thought I'd ever be saying that we need more shorter buildings, maybe in the 250' -350' range.


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/dt-1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/dt-2.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/dt-4.jpg

[eburress]

^^ Hopefully that does not become SD's tallest building.

[HurricaneHugo]

wtf

is it just me or would building the LA-SD line first make more sense than building the SF-LA line?

[Urban Sky]

The Broadway Pier was all torn up today. Is this a sign of good things to come?

really? all gone?! woah.

[SDCAL]

Got a brochure in the mail today for Embassy 1414 (I registered on their website) and the project looks really impressive. I like the architecture both inside and out, but looking at the brochure I imagine the prices are going to be pretty high though.

I moved downtown not too long ago and wouldn't be practical to move again, but if I was looking to move I'd definately look into this building. The good news is it looks like it is going to be built, the brochure and business card make it pretty obvious the project is moving forward. (CCDC lists a 2009 completion date)

Sorry I can't figure out how to post pics on here, the website is:
http://www.embassy1414.com/indexFlash.htm

it's in little italy and IMO looks like it will be a nice addition to downtown :)

[HurricaneHugo]

Got a brochure in the mail today for Embassy 1414 (I registered on their website) and the project looks really impressive. I like the architecture both inside and out, but looking at the brochure I imagine the prices are going to be pretty high though.

I moved downtown not too long ago and wouldn't be practical to move again, but if I was looking to move I'd definately look into this building. The good news is it looks like it is going to be built, the brochure and business card make it pretty obvious the project is moving forward. (CCDC lists a 2009 completion date)

Sorry I can't figure out how to post pics on here, the website is:
http://www.embassy1414.com/indexFlash.htm

it's in little italy and IMO looks like it will be a nice addition to downtown :)

Good to hear about this, since many feared that it might have died.

[Urban Sky]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/urban_sky/1414.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/urban_sky/1414_2.jpg

[HurricaneHugo]

Beautiful.

[spoonman]

WE WERE ALL DUPED!!! After reading the article about the new tallest building, I noticed the catch!

"...the tallest "project" in the city". "PROJECT" being the operative word

As if we didn't know better, right? In our hearts we knew it was BS...

[Derek]

Got a brochure in the mail today for Embassy 1414 (I registered on their website) and the project looks really impressive. I like the architecture both inside and out, but looking at the brochure I imagine the prices are going to be pretty high though.

I moved downtown not too long ago and wouldn't be practical to move again, but if I was looking to move I'd definately look into this building. The good news is it looks like it is going to be built, the brochure and business card make it pretty obvious the project is moving forward. (CCDC lists a 2009 completion date)

Sorry I can't figure out how to post pics on here, the website is:
http://www.embassy1414.com/indexFlash.htm

it's in little italy and IMO looks like it will be a nice addition to downtown :)


That's excellent news! This project has seemed dead for a few months because of the lack of news about it. This building is still one of my favorite proposals!:tup:

[Derek]

WE WERE ALL DUPED!!! After reading the article about the new tallest building, I noticed the catch!

"...the tallest "project" in the city". "PROJECT" being the operative word

As if we didn't know better, right? In our hearts we knew it was BS...

Could you explain? I'm a little tired and my brain isn't functioning.:frog:

[keg92101]

Don't waste your money at this new venue. We had guest tickets but there is no way I would waste $30 to get into this place. It's free to go to the restaraunt/bar, and that is the best area. The club is something out of TJ. The Hard Rock is going to blow this joint out of the water.

[spoonman]

Could you explain? I'm a little tired and my brain isn't functioning.:frog:

It is the tallest new PROJECT, meaning that it is the tallest building currently under development, rather than the new tallest building in town.

[sandiego_urban]

^^ Hopefully that does not become SD's tallest building.
Yeah, it's design isn't worthy of having the distinction of being the tallest. Hopefully, it will be tweaked some more.

Got a brochure in the mail today for Embassy 1414 (I registered on their website) and the project looks really impressive.
Great news! This is still one of my favorite proposals we have going.


Don't waste your money at this new venue. We had guest tickets but there is no way I would waste $30 to get into this place. It's free to go to the restaraunt/bar, and that is the best area. The club is something out of TJ. The Hard Rock is going to blow this joint out of the water.
I can't believe they have the nerve to charge $30 to get in! What's with all the clubs with the high cover charges? Stingaree - $25, Belo - $20, On Broadway - $20, not to mention all of the others that charge $10 - $15. This isn't NYC, people!! Can downtown really support this many high-end clubs? It's inevitable that some of them are going to go out of business as newer open up.

[Derek]

It is the tallest new PROJECT, meaning that it is the tallest building currently under development, rather than the new tallest building in town.

Gotcha.;)

[bmfarley]

^^^^ The relevance of buildings reaching the 500-foot mean elevation above see level is loosing appeal. We have so many that it's no big deal. In fact, anything 400 to 500-foot.... so what.

I do enjoy seeing San Diego's downtown grow and improve.... particularly to the southeast and east toward the freeway. I am all for a rehab those areas!

[keg92101]

I can't believe they have the nerve to charge $30 to get in! What's with all the clubs with the high cover charges? Stingaree - $25, Belo - $20, On Broadway - $20, not to mention all of the others that charge $10 - $15. This isn't NYC, people!! Can downtown really support this many high-end clubs? It's inevitable that some of them are going to go out of business as newer open up.

I have no problem paying, if its worth it. This place isn't worth it. However, there are plenty of places worse than this in NYC that charge $30 as well. I do believe that SD can support this many high end places, and the many more to come...

[bmfarley]

I have no problem paying, if its worth it. This place isn't worth it. However, there are plenty of places worse than this in NYC that charge $30 as well. I do believe that SD can support this many high end places, and the many more to come...I can afford a cover that high, but I don't have enough friends that could do so... or at least of the ones that can, that all of our moods would be aligned to hit a downtown bar at the same time.

I like dive bars a little more. NuNu's at 6th & Brooks in Uptown is decently cool. So are some of the wine bars.... like Wine Steals or the one at the bottom of Mission Hills on Washington.

By the way, are there any bar critique web sites? Is there a blog?

[keg92101]

I can afford a cover that high, but I don't have enough friends that could do so... or at least of the ones that can, that all of our moods would be aligned to hit a downtown bar at the same time.

I like dive bars a little more. NuNu's at 6th & Brooks in Uptown is decently cool. So are some of the wine bars.... like Wine Steals or the one at the bottom of Mission Hills on Washington.

By the way, are there any bar critique web sites? Is there a blog?

Wouldn't that be sweet, like eater.com for NYC. I dig the dives as well. Landlord Jim's is a great place, and who can argue with $4 for a Stella?

http://eater.com

[SDCAL]

So, when a project's height is listed on CCDC's website, do they mean the the height above sea-level or the actual height of the building ??

There are two propsed projects (neither have renderings on the site) that have the height listed as 500 ft - Monaco (East Village) and Riviera (Cortez Hill) and I'm wondering if that means the buildings themselves will be as tall as our tallest builing, One America, or if it just means they will be 500 ft above sea level?

The thing that makes this height restriction even worse is that unlike most cities, San Diego has topography and hills right dowtown (ie cortez hill). It gives downtown depth and a nice backdrop, but if buildings in cortez hill can only be 500ft above sea level, as opposed to building 500ft buildings on Cortez Hill, I'm afraid it will make the skyline look silly, like a big plateau filled with buildings that all purposefully level out on the same horizon regardless of whether they are in a valley or on a hill.

[Derek]

Monaco is 350 feet. You can check this in past board meeting agendas. 500 feet must mean above sea level.

[Urban Sky]

^^^^ The relevance of buildings reaching the 500-foot mean elevation above see level is loosing appeal. We have so many that it's no big deal. In fact, anything 400 to 500-foot.... so what.

I do enjoy seeing San Diego's downtown grow and improve.... particularly to the southeast and east toward the freeway. I am all for a rehab those areas!

i second that motion

[Derek]

Anybody got news on the Marriott that was supposed to start construction last week but didn't?

[spoonman]

^I'd like to know as well. At this point, Vantage Pointe will be done before that Marriott, which is just laughable.

[bushman61988]

Well, about a week or two ago I commented on the Port Website regarding the Lane Field hotel towers. Here was my Comments:
"I think the tower design is great! The sail roof top is unique and really will look world-class, lit up at night. Definitely a signature tower on our waterfront, and it will definitely stand out on our skyline.

But my main complaint against this project is they're twin towers.. Our skyline already has numerous twin towers (about 5 from my count), including directly east of the Lane Field project, the Grande towers. I think the it makes the skyline look really boring to have all these twin towers, especially from such a prominent location, right on our waterfront. And doesn't the 2006 Downtown Specific Plan Update outline that there should be no new towers that look too similar alike?

Finally, I think the base is a bit boring, but it's OKAY, just a nice kind of bland. All in all, a really great hotel project for the waterfront and the city"



Here was the response I got yesterday from the Port of San Diego:



"Thank you for your comments. The architects are making design revisions to the towers to give each hotel its own identity, although still using similar materials. The base of the building is being designed as the plans for the retail space are finalized with tenants, including adding outdoor seating and balconies."

[SDDTProspector]

:) Can't wait to see this one..... Sounds really BIG

CCDC and the San Diego Redevelopment Agency have selected Related Cos., a private real estate development firm, San Diego-based CityLink Investment Corp. and Carrier Johnson as a joint venture team to negotiate the proposed development of a major mixed-use project at Seventh Avenue and Market Street. The $300 million project -- contained on a single block -- will have 42 stories of market rate and affordable housing, hotel, retail, street-front commercial and cultural space and a police storefront. The developers will build a 650-vehicle public parking garage that will be owned and operated by CCDC and the Redevelopment Agency.

“Seventh and Market offers local residents a new model for a multi-level, active city center, and it adds a distinctive skyline,” says Frank Wolden, design principal for Carrier Johnson. “This 'sky palace' features roof decks and garden terraces that cascade down the building, allowing people to walk outdoors on all levels of the tower. The concept of a vertical city energized by 'skylife' also is captured by a series of levels visually identified by stairs, balconies and terraces, all reflected in the striking use of glass, which gives the tower a luminous quality at all times of day.”

Affordable housing units will be dispersed throughout the tower. Three levels of private underground parking will serve residents and tenants. Above, six levels of public parking will be enveloped and masked by the residences.

“The integrated public and private project components will create a model mixed-use, mixed-income development enabling CCDC and the Agency to create a vertically integrated landmark high-rise and a new cultural venue that will create a living legacy to and celebrate Downtown's African-American history,” says William Jones, president and CEO of CityLink.