SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[bmfarley]

It's funny how some cities' threads can make you want to pack your bags and move there immediately. This is one of those for me. I had no idea all this was going on in San Diego. Are there any future skyline renderings floating around?

Although, that Shapery Park Tower renderings is very...obvious...
Future skyline renderings? None that come quickly to my mind. Although, if you can imagine a marine with a flat-top haircut... you're halfway there. Because of proximity to Lindbergh Field, downtown has a 500-foot above mean sea level height limit.

[PeterSmith]

^^ That might be cool actually...like a tropical Vancouver...or at least a tropical Vancouver circa a year years ago. Still, not a bad place to be :)

[IconRPCV]

^^ That might be cool actually...like a tropical Vancouver...or at least a tropical Vancouver circa a year years ago. Still, not a bad place to be :)


Exactly!!! So many of the locals on this forum are sooo negative, it's like they forget we live in a great place just because we have no supertalls, or no mega-hub airport. Give me SD with its one lane airport over Atlanta any day! SD is a unique and great place, one thing being its plateau skyline. If I remember correctly Philly used to have a height ordinance for along time. Now look at it! Its plateau effect makes its supertalls look even more outstanding. Give SD some time and until then appreciate all the great things we have.

[SDCAL]

Exactly!!! So many of the locals on this forum are sooo negative, it's like they forget we live in a great place just because we have no supertalls, or no mega-hub airport. Give me SD with its one lane airport over Atlanta any day! SD is a unique and great place, one thing being its plateau skyline. If I remember correctly Philly used to have a height ordinance for along time. Now look at it! Its plateau effect makes its supertalls look even more outstanding. Give SD some time and until then appreciate all the great things we have.

People aren't critical because we hate SD, we are critical because we want it to be a better city

Do you fly internationally each month?

I do, and having to go through customs at another port of entry each time and then re-check luggage for a domestic flight back home is a pain in the ass

It might be fine for those who take an occasional trip abroad, but for business travelers who make up the bulk of revune for an airport, it really gets inconvinient

I don't want SD to have a "shiny new mega-port" for bragging rights, I want one because we need one!!!!

[SDCAL]

Apparently the hipsters aren't as prevalent as everyone thought.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20080412-9999-1b12club.html

“Opening a Stingaree these days would scare the (heck) out of me,” Brennan said with a wry smile. “If you don't have 800 people in there, it looks empty. Any of those gigantic places really have to fight to make sure they get market share, and these days there is not enough to go around for four or five megaclubs.”

“There are still a lot of people out there with money,” he said. “But everyone is fighting for a select few, because it's few and far between who can go out and spend $1,800 on a liquor tab for the night."

I read the article - I think the point of it is that with the economy as it is throughout the COUNTRY, the number of people dropping a grand or more on an alcohol tab a night would be lessening, even though the developer is talking about clubs in SD, nothing singled out SD as having more or less of a market than anywhere else

By the way, who says a "hipster" has to be rich?

It's not about how many ultra-expensive places you have, it's about how creative all venues are

[mello]

Exactly!!! So many of the locals on this forum are sooo negative, it's like they forget we live in a great place just because we have no supertalls, or no mega-hub airport. Give me SD with its one lane airport over Atlanta any day! SD is a unique and great place, one thing being its plateau skyline. If I remember correctly Philly used to have a height ordinance for along time. Now look at it! Its plateau effect makes its supertalls look even more outstanding. Give SD some time and until then appreciate all the great things we have.

I think the problem many locals have is this: What is San Diego doing as a metro area to improve and charge ahead in to the future? Yes San Diego is a nice place to live if you have the money and time to enjoy the things that it has to offer. But what about all of the people struggling to make ends meet here who work 6 days a week? Do they really get to enjoy this great city?? No they don't.

I would love to look at the percentage of people who live in funky housing in San Diego versus Houston, Atlanta, or Charlotte, per capita. You see those metros (and others) are set up to do well in the coming decades. They are constantly working to make their Metro areas attractive to companies and to keep the companies they already have. Let me ask you, how is San Diego going to bring in companies that pay 60, 70, 80, 90,000$ a year jobs???

Where are these jobs going to come from? People in this metro don't have any expendable income to enjoy life. What about all the people living in shitty old tract homes or apartments in Lemon Grove, Spring Valley, Vista, San Marcos, Clairmont etc. etc. How are their children going to be able to grow up in this metro and make 70,000$ a year?

Are you starting to get my point? I could go on and on. But I bet if you compared San Diego with Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta, Raliegh, Houston, and Minneapolis that people there on average live in better housing, have more expendable income and there are less people working 6 days a week. Life in San Diego County is a struggle for a LARGE percentage of its citizens, many people do not realize this.

[IconRPCV]

Nowhere did I state anything concerning incomes or the economy at all. I agree that SD is severly lacking in many areas. I just was commenting on all the talk on here about how not having supertall skyscrapers makes our skyline lame.

[teiwaz]

...well the court hears this case tomorrow and there are 3 different appraisals now all between 60 mil and the newest one coming in at 85 mil! Hopefully the courts will allow Simplon to finalize their new investors deals and pay out Black and keep moving forward. It will be quite a shock if the judge decides the property is only worth the 26 mil which is what Black is trying to present and ignore 3 certified appraisals all done within the month or so. I agree Simplon should not have borrowed that much cash but with the timing of this credit crunch, it has put them behind the 8 ball. Lets all cross our fingers for the little guys involved in this one and lets see a positive out come tomorrow or in the next few days!

[keg92101]

...well the court hears this case tomorrow and there are 3 different appraisals now all between 60 mil and the newest one coming in at 85 mil! Hopefully the courts will allow Simplon to finalize their new investors deals and pay out Black and keep moving forward. It will be quite a shock if the judge decides the property is only worth the 26 mil which is what Black is trying to present and ignore 3 certified appraisals all done within the month or so. I agree Simplon should not have borrowed that much cash but with the timing of this credit crunch, it has put them behind the 8 ball. Lets all cross our fingers for the little guys involved in this one and lets see a positive out come tomorrow or in the next few days!

$85 million???

That's $1500/SF just for the dirt. I wouldn't hold my breath. Surrounding dirt is only worth between $200-$400 / SF

[sandiegodweller]

...well the court hears this case tomorrow and there are 3 different appraisals now all between 60 mil and the newest one coming in at 85 mil! Hopefully the courts will allow Simplon to finalize their new investors deals and pay out Black and keep moving forward. It will be quite a shock if the judge decides the property is only worth the 26 mil which is what Black is trying to present and ignore 3 certified appraisals all done within the month or so. I agree Simplon should not have borrowed that much cash but with the timing of this credit crunch, it has put them behind the 8 ball. Lets all cross our fingers for the little guys involved in this one and lets see a positive out come tomorrow or in the next few days!

$1545 psf for unimproved land in downtown San Diego? Sounds about $1200 psf too high in todays market but I hope you're right.

Should be interesting.

Can you give us any hints on who you think will be your white knight?

02:00 PM

Chapter 11

SIMPLON BALLPARK LLC 08-01803-JM Ch

1) DEBTOR'S OPPOSITION TO MOTION FOR RELIEF FROM STAY, RS #JAD-1 (REAL PROPERTY BOUNDED BY J STREET, ISLAND STREET, 7TH AND 8TH AVENUES, CITY OF SAN DIEGO CA) FILED BY JEFFRY A. DAVIS ON BEHALF OF SDG-LEFT FIELD, LLC

2) SCRIPPS INVESTMENT & LOAN, INC.'S MOTION FOR RELIEF FROM STAY, RS #JAD-1 (REAL PROPERTY BOUNDED BY J STREET, ISLAND STREET, 7TH AND 8TH AVENUES, CITY OF SAN DIEGO CA) FILED BY JEFFRY A. DAVIS ON BEHALF OF SDG-LEFT FIELD, LLC

US TRUSTEE: United States Trustee

ATTORNEY: Thomas C Nelson (Simplon Ballpark LLC)
ATTORNEY: Jeffry A. Davis (SDG-Left Field, LLC)
ATTORNEY: George A. Foster (Edward Young, Ghayda Young)
ATTORNEY: Scott A. Schaelen (Nasland Engineering)
ATTORNEY: Adam M. Starr (Kohn Pederson Fox Associates PC)
ATTORNEY: Geoffrey E. Marr (Plaza Del Sol RET)
ATTORNEY: Victor A. Vilaplana (& Loan, Inc. Scripps Investment)

[Derek]

Can somebody fill me in, without numbers? :)

I don't feel like reading/processing everything, and you guys are smart.

[sandiegodweller]

Bankruptcy records reveal rescue plans

By Mike Freeman
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
April 16, 2008

Developers of a proposed 39-story hotel/condo project in downtown San Diego are counting on the chic Mondrian brand and a possible loan from a Chicago bank in hopes of salvaging the troubled project.
Simplon Ballpark LLC is trying to fend off its largest creditor, which wants a bankruptcy judge to allow it to foreclose on the full-block site bounded by J Street and Seventh, Eighth and Island avenues in East Village near Petco Park. Real estate experts say the site is one of the best remaining development parcels downtown.

The company, which offered details of efforts to save the Cosmopolitan Square project in bankruptcy court filings, is working with Morgans Hotel Group of New York to operate and manage the luxury hotel portion of the project under its Mondrian brand name.

It also is in talks with Corus Bank and others to finance the project. The Chicago bank is a prominent lender for condo projects, including several in markets where the housing slump has been particularly severe, such as Florida, California and Nevada. Its fourth-quarter net income tumbled more than 90 percent. The bank did not return a call seeking comment.

So moving Cosmopolitan Square forward may not be easy for Simplon, which owes about $40 million to lenders and contractors. It is trying to get financing in perhaps the most difficult credit market in the past three decades. Although Simplon has “letters of interest” from potential lenders and investors, it has yet to wrap up firm commitments, according to bankruptcy records.

Cosmopolitan Square started out as a pure condo project, with ground-floor retail and a new fire station as part of the package.

But the slumping condo market forced Simplon to juggle its plans. Now the company proposes building 210 hotel rooms and 113 expensive condos, as well as the fire station and retail.

Simplon could not be reached for comment. But in court filings, Chief Executive Jack Scull said the company has reached “definitive terms” with New York-based Morgans to operate and manage the 210-room hotel portion of the project. Scull also said Morgans would invest $5 million in the project.

Publicly traded Morgans operates two Mondrian Hotels, one in Scottsdale, Ariz., and one on Sunset Boulevard in West Hollywood, where rates run from $450 to $700 a night.
“The Mondrian venue is a very hip hotel concept,” said Donald W. Wise, a Napa-based managing partner and investment banker with Johnson Capital's hotel group. “It's a little edgy, along the lines of a W Hotel.”

Morgans has been talking with Simplon but has yet to pledge any money, said a company spokeswoman.

For the 113 condos, Simplon wants to go upscale. It expects to price the units at $850 to $1,000 per square foot – well above current square-foot prices for downtown condos.

“The condo market is pretty grim,” noted Wise. “For lenders, one of the last things they want is a hotel project that has a condo piece to it. It is not the flavor of the month, and I think San Diego has a pretty large inventory of standing condos.”

Simplon previously developed the Radisson Bay View, a 22-story, 334-room hotel in San Diego; the 10-story Radisson Hotel in National City; and the Rancho Santa Fe Creek high-end subdivision, among other projects. It filed for bankruptcy March 5 after its largest secured creditor, SDG-Left Field, began foreclosure proceedings.

SDG-Left Field is controlled by Steve Black, a longtime San Diego real estate developer and principal in Cisterra Partners, which recently built the Diamondview Tower office high-rise downtown.

SDG-Left Field is owed $18.1 million. It wants the court to allow it to push ahead with foreclosure because Simplon owes $40 million on the property to 14 creditors, which SDG-Left Field claims is more than the block is worth.

According to court documents, SDG-Left Field says the property is worth $26.5 million. Simplon rejects that, saying its land-use approvals make the site worth $65 million. A hearing on the dispute is scheduled today.

[teiwaz]

From what I know Simplon has a very strong case with a ton of solid $ numbers to back it up. Of course no one is going to commit until after today but they have solid letters of intent with real numbers with more then just one potential investor. Morgan has reconfirmed their commitment to Simplon for the court records as so have a few other components. The hearing is at 2pm today so lets see the small guys win for a change!!!!

[sandiegodweller]

From what I know Simplon has a very strong case with a ton of solid $ numbers to back it up. Of course no one is going to commit until after today but they have solid letters of intent with real numbers with more then just one potential investor. Morgan has reconfirmed their commitment to Simplon for the court records as so have a few other components. The hearing is at 2pm today so lets see the small guys win for a change!!!!

I am curious why you say "small guys"? If you are investing over a million into a development (individually or as a group), that isn't "small".

This deal reminds me of the pawnshop scene in the movie "Trading Places" with Simplon playing the role of Louis Winthorpe III (Dan Aykroyd) and THE CURRENT REAL ESTATE MARKET as Bo Diddley, the pawnbroker.

http://www.killerclips.com/clip.php?id=43&qid=245&PHPSESSID=18afb6990ddf08b24683e86dd6a2cd32

[keg92101]

From what I know Simplon has a very strong case with a ton of solid $ numbers to back it up. Of course no one is going to commit until after today but they have solid letters of intent with real numbers with more then just one potential investor. Morgan has reconfirmed their commitment to Simplon for the court records as so have a few other components. The hearing is at 2pm today so lets see the small guys win for a change!!!!

Why would Morgan's team with a developer who owes $40 million on a property, infuse another $5, that sits behind all other creditors, when they could go to SDG-Left after bankrupt proceedings without all the additional debt. BK will go through. Sorry bro.

[teiwaz]

Because Morgan was there before SDG was and their relationship is better then just going with the cheapest deal snaked by a company formed only to try steal the land out from under Simplon who had hit some bad luck. Not all people contribute to the dark side and maybe Morgan wouldn't want to deal with SDG or maybe SDG wouldn't want to develop a hotel there at all. It's basically called loyalty, something we don't see much of anymore in this selfish every man for himself America.

[sandiegodweller]

Because Morgan was there before SDG was and their relationship is better then just going with the cheapest deal snaked by a company formed only to try steal the land out from under Simplon who had hit some bad luck. Not all people contribute to the dark side and maybe Morgan wouldn't want to deal with SDG or maybe SDG wouldn't want to develop a hotel there at all. It's basically called loyalty, something we don't see much of anymore in this selfish every man for himself America.

If this deal is ready to go and Trdent is ready to make a bridge loan, who leased the site to Morley Construction as a staging area for Strata? The Strata project is just finishing the foundation work. Morley will need the Simplon site for another 15 months.

Simplon is just fishing for more time. The BK judge will make them provide some sort of proof that they can actually pull it off. I can't see any lender making a huge loan to a bankrupt entity in a sufficient amount of time to save this deal.

if the deal is really worth $88 million (the new appraised value according to the Simplon attorney), all of the Jr liens should show up on the courthouse steps with a cashiers check and pay off SDG Left Field.

[teiwaz]

So were you there? In the court? The judge gave Simplon till May 1st to finalize some deals and see where they are at that time. SDG tried to push it but the judge saw the truth and allowed more time for help... that's the whole reason for filing Chapter 11. Now we wait and see if Simplon can get the loan docs all ready and closed before then or at least closer. SDG didn't have the evidence to back up it's claim like Simplon and it just seemed that Simplon was just more classy then the sharks on the other side. One small step in the right direction for the small guy!

[sandiegodweller]

So were you there? In the court? The judge gave Simplon till May 1st to finalize some deals and see where they are at that time. SDG tried to push it but the judge saw the truth and allowed more time for help... that's the whole reason for filing Chapter 11. Now we wait and see if Simplon can get the loan docs all ready and closed before then or at least closer. SDG didn't have the evidence to back up it's claim like Simplon and it just seemed that Simplon was just more classy then the sharks on the other side. One small step in the right direction for the small guy!

I have no financial interest in the deal but as an outside observer, here are the only points that are relevant:

1. SDG doesn't have any case to prove. Their "claim" is that they are owed payment on the 1st TD. The facts are that Simplon isn't paying their bills (3 mechanics liens) nor their debt obligations. SDG started the foreclosure process and Simplon threw themselves into BK. The only group that has anything to prove is Simplon; they have to prove that there is sufficient equity to preserve and that they have a plan to pay off their creditors.

2. Simplon is producing an bunch of half-assed Letters of Interest to use as evidence that someone is interested in financing a project. They have no Term Sheets or Loan Commitments. As I stated, Simplon is just trying to dely the process.

3. If the new plan for the Mondrian and ultra luxury condos is true, the developers and investors are more delusional than ever.

4. Any new appraisal that claims that an unimproved, 55,000 sf lot in downtown San Diego with some plans for a hotel/condo project is worth $88 million is a blatant fraud. I might decide to file a case on behalf of the US taxpayer to make sure that any loan (and the issuing lender) using this appraisal is never eligible for a Federal bailout.

I have no axe to grind with the developers besides the fact that the Old World Cafe and the adjacent office building were torn down 2 summers ago to make way for this cluster fcuk. It pisses me off that developers are allowed to start projects without the city having sufficient collateral/bonds/insurance to make sure that the job is finished once the plans are approved and the demo permits issued.

[sandiegodweller]

$1,200,000 • 24,000 SF • 16 Units
Call Chris for more info 619-788-2361

Ballpark Skylofts is a fully entitled project that is a lender owned pre-foreclosure. It will be dynamic 16 unit seven story building in the East Village neighborhood of Downtown San Diego. Most units are two story loft type. A great first project price at the value of Land All plans come with project. Project is being sold for land value with 500K of Plans for Free!!

[keg92101]

$1,200,000 • 24,000 SF • 16 Units
Call Chris for more info 619-788-2361

Ballpark Skylofts is a fully entitled project that is a lender owned pre-foreclosure. It will be dynamic 16 unit seven story building in the East Village neighborhood of Downtown San Diego. Most units are two story loft type. A great first project price at the value of Land All plans come with project. Project is being sold for land value with 500K of Plans for Free!!

Did the ConDocs get approved? I heard that they were having trouble getting variances signed off by the building department...

[sandiegodweller]

Did the ConDocs get approved? I heard that they were having trouble getting variances signed off by the building department...

I don't know anything about this project. I just forwarded along the information that I received from a broker.

The broker is using the terms "Fully Entitled" and putting a value of $500K on the plans but is willing to give them away for free with the purchase of the land.

I thought that this was interesting considering our discussion of the value of entitlements and building plans last week.

[keg92101]

I don't know anything about this project. I just forwarded along the information that I received from a broker.

The broker is using the terms "Fully Entitled" and putting a value of $500K on the plans but is willing to give them away for free with the purchase of the land.

I thought that this was interesting considering our discussion of the value of entitlements and building plans last week.

$1.2 million for what, 5,000 SF lot? $240 / SF is a far cry from nearly $1,500!

[sandiegodweller]

$1.2 million for what, 5,000 SF lot? $240 / SF is a far cry from nearly $1,500!

To be fair, the CosmoSquare site is vastly superior to the BallPark Lofts lot in both size and location but it is hard to see how any appraiser is valuing it at $60 million let alone $88 million.

[keg92101]

To be fair, the CosmoSquare site is vastly superior to the BallPark Lofts lot in both size and location but it is hard to see how any appraiser is valuing it at $60 million let alone $88 million.

Did you know that Hanover offered the little old lady that owns the SRO between Hotel Indigo and Strata $8 Million for her 3,000 SF lot?! She will never see that kind of money again, with it being land locked and all!

[sandiegodweller]

Did you know that Hanover offered the little old lady that owns the SRO between Hotel Indigo and Strata $8 Million for her 3,000 SF lot?! She will never see that kind of money again, with it being land locked and all!
I hadn't heard that but if it is true, she is a real dipshit. What was her reason to hold out? Have you seen the shoring in place to make sure that the building doesn't collapse?

I have contacts at The Mark and they pointed out a 35-50 year old blonde woman out to me the other day. She was monitoring the excavation. They thought she was the owner.

Greed is amazing sometimes. We were working with Centex 3 years ago to plan a project on the Basic Pizza bldg (Steve Berry), the hair salon and empty lot (Michael Witkin) and the old dry cleaner bldg. We were talking about prices of $400 psf for all of them plus a profit participation clause if the project was a grand slam. All of them held out. They won't see those prices again for a few years.

[keg92101]

I hadn't heard that but if it is true, she is a real dipshit. What was her reason to hold out? Have you seen the shoring in place to make sure that the building doesn't collapse?

I have contacts at The Mark and they pointed out a 35-50 year old blonde woman out to me the other day. She was monitoring the excavation. They thought she was the owner.

Greed is amazing sometimes. We were working with Centex 3 years ago to plan a project on the Basic Pizza bldg (Steve Berry), the hair salon and empty lot (Michael Witkin) and the old dry cleaner bldg. We were talking about prices of $400 psf for all of them plus a profit participation clause if the project was a grand slam. All of them held out. They won't see those prices again for a few years.

If ever. I heard the the lady's dream is to open a jazz club, but who knows. They are having to do internal shoring instead of friction ties because the lady wouldn't even sign a tie-back agreement. Wierd!

[teiwaz]

Well take that SDG left field! That's were you belonged was way out in left field! Simplon has 2 weeks to secure it's $ from it's many choices of lenders now and the tide has turned. One more hump to get over and then I can say, 'I told you so!'

[keg92101]

Well take that SDG left field! That's were you belonged was way out in left field! Simplon has 2 weeks to secure it's $ from it's many choices of lenders now and the tide has turned. One more hump to get over and then I can say, 'I told you so!'

What are you talking about? Why is it such a bad thing that a creditor is seeking payment on it's loan?

[teiwaz]

When you buy a note last minute, with the only intention of trying to steal a property for 1/3 of what's it's worth, your intentions are not honest and you are only out for yourself, screwing the little guy in the process. That's why.

[keg92101]

When you buy a note last minute, with the only intention of trying to steal a property for 1/3 of what's it's worth, your intentions are not honest and you are only out for yourself, screwing the little guy in the process. That's why.

Steal for 1/3? Read the financial disclosures for 7th & Market between the Related Company and CCDC. They are buying 55,000 SF, one bock north for $16.4 million. That is also entitled. They are also getting CCDC to finance the garage portion, and they don't have to build a new fire station. Why would CCDC sell the land to Related for that much if one block south the apraisal is $60 million? Because the cosmo apraisal is fraud, thats why. A little guy making an unwise investment is not a little guy getting screwed.

[teiwaz]

Fraud? Wow, that's your brilliant assessment? You obviously don't have the facts to make a legit judgement on this case but I guess the actual Judge did because he has allowed more time (the whole reason for Chapter 11), to be given to Simplon. This blog is rather disappointing as I thought I would find more professional people in the industry who I could rap with. Oh well.

[bmfarley]

Fraud? Wow, that's your brilliant assessment? You obviously don't have the facts to make a legit judgement on this case but I guess the actual Judge did because he has allowed more time (the whole reason for Chapter 11), to be given to Simplon. This blog is rather disappointing as I thought I would find more professional people in the industry who I could rap with. Oh well.Well, talking about the merits of a lawsuit is not very interesting. And my impression is that you're seeking like-minded persons to share your sympathies. I am not interested in either. Have you written/responded about any other topics here yet?

[sandiegodweller]

Well take that SDG left field! That's were you belonged was way out in left field! Simplon has 2 weeks to secure it's $ from it's many choices of lenders now and the tide has turned. One more hump to get over and then I can say, 'I told you so!'

What did you tell us? All Simplon is doing is replacing one creditor with another. If they can actually scrape together the $18.1 million to pay off SDG, then they are in the same position (with a little more time). The new creditor will start the process again as soon as Simplon stops paying them.

You find it incredulous that there are investors out there trying to buy distressed debt in the hopes of making a profit. Are you naive?

[teiwaz]

Not naive, I know it happens but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it and neither did the Judge. Everyone is counting Simplon out but Chapter 11 is there to protect companies and there people in situations like these so the vultures can't come down to eat... not right away at least.
It's all about time, time to try and take a final shot at getting the project going again, to build it! I am not naive in knowing that if that doesn't happen soon it will be game over but again, it doesn't mean I have to agree with the tactics of SDG. If you were in court that day you would have seen what I mean as their lawyer was an aggressive little manipulator who tried to bully the judge... it didn't work.

[keg92101]

Not naive, I know it happens but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it and neither did the Judge. Everyone is counting Simplon out but Chapter 11 is there to protect companies and there people in situations like these so the vultures can't come down to eat... not right away at least.
It's all about time, time to try and take a final shot at getting the project going again, to build it! I am not naive in knowing that if that doesn't happen soon it will be game over but again, it doesn't mean I have to agree with the tactics of SDG. If you were in court that day you would have seen what I mean as their lawyer was an aggressive little manipulator who tried to bully the judge... it didn't work.


Its a bad deal any way you look at it. Simplon borrowed too much money against the property, and now they can't pay it back. This thing is going to end bad one way or another. It always does when the financials are mismanaged.

[teiwaz]

I am glad I don't share your attitude about life and it's choices as it would depress the hell out of me. We will see what happens and why not hope for the best, the economy needs that more then it does the gloomy stuff.

Thanks for the posts but I am done here till we hear more on the 1st of May so I guess that gives you last word... make it count.

[SDCAL]

Fraud? Wow, that's your brilliant assessment? You obviously don't have the facts to make a legit judgement on this case but I guess the actual Judge did because he has allowed more time (the whole reason for Chapter 11), to be given to Simplon. This blog is rather disappointing as I thought I would find more professional people in the industry who I could rap with. Oh well.

This blog is for anyone interested in development in San Diego, it is not designed exclusively for "professionals in the industry"

I value the insights of the insiders who can give updates on where projects stand, but the micro-analysis of intricate legal details being carried on by you and others are bringing this blog down. I'm starting to notice alot of the old bloggers are just dropping off

:slob:

[OCtoSD]

While the insults are out of character for this blog, I don't have a problem with the legal discussion. Im actually a law student and am in 3 land use real estate classes. If I knew bankruptcy procedures I would have chimed in. As far as foreclosures go, the lenders are well within their rights here, and do not seem to be acting in a predatory manner. And if you wanna see a low level blog look at the Downtown LA blog. They actually cuss at each other over the blog and gay bash. I think it reflects the character of both cities. haha.

[OCtoSD]

Talking about cussing anyone have thoughts on Sanders' cussing out his opponent after the debate. How about thoughts on who would be better for Downtown or the city as a whole.

[Marina_Guy]

Talking about cussing anyone have thoughts on Sanders' cussing out his opponent after the debate. How about thoughts on who would be better for Downtown or the city as a whole.

I don't either care about Downtown. Their actions speak louder than words. All they want to do is raid CCDC funds to pay for things the City general fund should. Sanders is probably a little more pro Downtown than Francis, but they are light years away from the kind of leadership a growing, vibrant city needs.

[HurricaneHugo]

Damn, I was hoping than Francis would be a bit better but I guess not. =(

Both are better than Donna Frye lol.

[sandiego_urban]

Nothing really new here, just some construction progress shots from the webcams -

The L-shape of Vantage Pointe is finally starting to show
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/vp1-1.jpg

Hilton pretty much looks like the original rendering
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/hilt1.jpg

Sapphire and Bayside rising
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/saphbay.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/saphby1.jpg

Strata
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/strata1.jpg

Father Joe's project
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/fatherjoe-1.jpg

That's it for now!

[OCtoSD]

Those construction pictures make me so excited. I have a summer job in OC, but am hoping my next summer job will be in SD. Anyone else see the tallship (old sailing ship) under full sail in the Bayside/ Strata Pic.

[staplesla]

http://www.10news.com/news/16093294/detail.html

SAN DIEGO -- A federal judge ruled that the California Coastal Commission cannot require developer Doug Manchester to obtain a coastal development permit for the proposed redevelopment of the Navy Broadway Complex site in downtown San Diego, it was announced Wednesday.

U.S. District Judge Jeffrey Miller issued the ruling on Monday, according to an outside attorney for Manchester Financial Group.

In a statement, Manchester applauded the decision, saying it "removes an important hurdle and moves us forward with development of this landmark project which will revitalize and invigorate San Diego's Waterfront."

The developer brought the lawsuit against the Coastal Commission last June, arguing that the state agency does not have jurisdiction over the 15-acre site because it is located on Navy land.

Legal challenges brought by opponents of the project in state and federal courts on the adequacy of environmental documents are still pending.

Manchester signed a 99-year lease with the Navy last year to redevelop the waterfront Navy Broadway Complex site, which is located between Pacific Highway and Harbor Drive south of Broadway.

In addition to 2.9 million square feet of office, hotel and retail space, the plan calls for the construction of a building to serve as the future headquarters of Navy Region Southwest.

[mongoXZ]

Good news.:previous:
While Im totally disappointed with the dull architecture proposed for the complex I'm glad that it'll soon move forward and I'll be able to see it completed in my lifetime.

Nothing really new here, just some construction progress shots from the webcams -

The L-shape of Vantage Pointe is finally starting to show
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/vp1-1.jpg

Hilton pretty much looks like the original rendering
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/hilt1.jpg

Sapphire and Bayside rising
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/saphbay.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/saphby1.jpg

Strata
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/strata1.jpg

Father Joe's project
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/fatherjoe-1.jpg

That's it for now!

Thanks for the updates.

The Hilton looks as if somebody took a giant ninja sword and chopped the building in half.:frog:

[keg92101]

My wife and I took a trip to Portland last weekend, and all I can say is...

WOW!

We in the East Village are being roally screwed over by the retail brokers / landlords and the extorting rates they are demanding for retail space in our hood. My wife and I spent most of our time in the Pearl District, which is way further along and way, way higher end than the East Village, and their most expensive retail is $3 per SF per month. They truley have everything you need within a 4-6 block radius of any building in that area; Whole Foods, REI, Rite Aid, martini lounges, cafes, botuiques, restaurants, etc... I am very concerned that the way the retail is going in the East Village, especially when you look at Burnham's marketting fliers, is that it is marketted for tourists, not those of us that live in the neighborhood. Who is going to want to live in an extension of the gaslamp. East Village needs its own unique identity!

This is ultimately going to kill the whole appeal of the neighborhood, at least in my humble opinion. Any other opines?

[OCtoSD]

Manchester's win over the Coastal Commission removes a huge, possibly fatal hurdle. Now the project can go forward as planned. But notice the end of the article says environmental challenges still pending. (I am actually working on a law take home final that includes a question I am outlining on California Environmental Quality Act Challenges aka CEQA challenges) Such challenges can take a minimum of 6 months at the trial court level. Assuming it is won, the other party, if it has the money, can appeal and that will delay the project another 2 to 3 years after that. Or Manchester loses, and has to redo the EIR and that will take another year at least. Or make an adendum and that is 6 months. Moral of the story is do not hold your breath on a ground breaking anytime soon. The only way for the project to move forward quickly would be for Manchester to settle with the parties. That is unlikely to happen because Manchester is not the settling type given his ego, and the market is not so good right now that developers are willing to make concessions left and right to get their projects through.

[sandiegodweller]

My wife and I took a trip to Portland last weekend, and all I can say is...

WOW!

We in the East Village are being roally screwed over by the retail brokers / landlords and the extorting rates they are demanding for retail space in our hood. My wife and I spent most of our time in the Pearl District, which is way further along and way, way higher end than the East Village, and their most expensive retail is $3 per SF per month. They truley have everything you need within a 4-6 block radius of any building in that area; Whole Foods, REI, Rite Aid, martini lounges, cafes, botuiques, restaurants, etc... I am very concerned that the way the retail is going in the East Village, especially when you look at Burnham's marketting fliers, is that it is marketted for tourists, not those of us that live in the neighborhood. Who is going to want to live in an extension of the gaslamp. East Village needs its own unique identity!

This is ultimately going to kill the whole appeal of the neighborhood, at least in my humble opinion. Any other opines?

I couldn't agree more.

There are so few choices for everything except nail salons and yogurt/gelato.

[bmfarley]

The California Department of Finance released the latest population estimates for the cities, counties and the state pegged on January 1st.

California is over 38 million persons now (+490k over 2007). Assuming the state continues to grow by 400k to 700k each year, we'll surpass 40 million by 2013. Maybe sooner.

San Diego County is now 3.146 million (+46k over 2007).

San Diego city is 1.337 million (+19k over 2007).

Coincidentally, each grew at 1.5% over the previous year.

Go here for more info: http://www.dof.ca.gov/research/demographic/reports/estimates/e-1_2006-07/

[Marina_Guy]

My wife and I took a trip to Portland last weekend, and all I can say is...

WOW!

We in the East Village are being roally screwed over by the retail brokers / landlords and the extorting rates they are demanding for retail space in our hood. My wife and I spent most of our time in the Pearl District, which is way further along and way, way higher end than the East Village, and their most expensive retail is $3 per SF per month. They truley have everything you need within a 4-6 block radius of any building in that area; Whole Foods, REI, Rite Aid, martini lounges, cafes, botuiques, restaurants, etc... I am very concerned that the way the retail is going in the East Village, especially when you look at Burnham's marketting fliers, is that it is marketted for tourists, not those of us that live in the neighborhood. Who is going to want to live in an extension of the gaslamp. East Village needs its own unique identity!

This is ultimately going to kill the whole appeal of the neighborhood, at least in my humble opinion. Any other opines?

Glad you enjoyed Portland. We love to go up for the weekend. Light rail from the airport right into downtown... What a concept, huh? And the Pearl is very nice and has appropriate retail and eating and drinking establishments. Downtown is so lacking in what the Pearl offers today or even 2 years ago, and I would guess the Pearl has less population. Something is strange about that. I know the retailers have modeling techniques on where to put stores and these are driven off of income and spending power. Maybe that is the problem with downtown is that the economics don't make sense for retailers. I don't know. But I am puzzled by the lack of activity.

[keg92101]

Glad you enjoyed Portland. We love to go up for the weekend. Light rail from the airport right into downtown... What a concept, huh? And the Pearl is very nice and has appropriate retail and eating and drinking establishments. Downtown is so lacking in what the Pearl offers today or even 2 years ago, and I would guess the Pearl has less population. Something is strange about that. I know the retailers have modeling techniques on where to put stores and these are driven off of income and spending power. Maybe that is the problem with downtown is that the economics don't make sense for retailers. I don't know. But I am puzzled by the lack of activity.

The strangest thing was that there were NOT a lot of people on the streets. We picked up an edition of Portlan Weekly, and it had a real estate section in it, breaking up demographics of each neighborhood. The Pearl is the 2nd most dense neighborhood in Portland at only 26 people per acre!!! East village has got to be at least tripple that, at least in areas of concentration. The real hold back in our retail is that it is being strung out to get the most rent possible, which is killing the neighborhood.

[HurricaneHugo]

The California Department of Finance released the latest population estimates for the cities, counties and the state pegged on January 1st.

California is over 38 million persons now (+490k over 2007). Assuming the state continues to grow by 400k to 700k each year, we'll surpass 40 million by 2013. Maybe sooner.

San Diego County is now 3.146 million (+46k over 2007).

San Diego city is 1.337 million (+19k over 2007).

Coincidentally, each grew at 1.5% over the previous year.

Go here for more info: http://www.dof.ca.gov/research/demographic/reports/estimates/e-1_2006-07/

They really need to update the city limits signs.

"San Diego-population 1.13 million"

[bmfarley]

They really need to update the city limits signs.

"San Diego-population 1.13 million"
Unfortunately, that takes money.

[HurricaneHugo]

We have loads of money no?

:D

[bmfarley]

We have loads of money no?

:D
You would think there is some money some place in the city's budget. No? But the infanticible amount is also competing with other 'like' projects having similar merit.

BTW, I support new/higher fees to pickup my trash and/or recycling. I support higher parking meter rates to pay for things like street lighting and public trash bins. I support higher water/sewer fees to ensure we'll have adequate and clean supplies in the future; and that what we flush down the toilet is cleaned to appropriate levels before being discharged into the ocean.

I don't mind these things because it means a higher and better quality life for myself and people around me. It also means the city will have sufficient resources to fund police fire and other essential services.

[CoastersBolts]

I think that the highway signs denoting a city's population, in this case San Diego, actually would be the property of CalTrans. Therefore, CalTrans has to replace the signs - not the city of San Diego. I think it's a safe bet to say that CalTrans has fewer budgetary issues than our beloved city. My guess is that any sign like this anywhere probably won't be replaced until after the next census in 2010; it doesn't make sense to do it before hand.

[bmfarley]

I think that the highway signs denoting a city's population, in this case San Diego, actually would be the property of CalTrans. Therefore, CalTrans has to replace the signs - not the city of San Diego. I think it's a safe bet to say that CalTrans has fewer budgetary issues than our beloved city. My guess is that any sign like this anywhere probably won't be replaced until after the next census in 2010; it doesn't make sense to do it before hand.

You'd think, wouldn't you? Caltrans maintains the signs. They wouldn't replace them. But I get your message.

With that said, Caltrans adopted a policy long ago outining when or if they make those changes. It's illustrated by this text I grabbed from a City of Burbank staff report discussing this very subject.

The California Streets and Highways Code (Section 101.4) states that “The department (Caltrans) shall replace or cause to be replaced any city limit road sign if all the following conditions exist:

(a) If the legislative body of a city requests the replacement.

(b) If the request is based upon a substantial change of population evidenced by a special or general federal census.

(c) If no previous request has been made by the city within a period of five years.”



I suspect criteria 'b' and 'c' have been meet. After all, the population figures are about 20% over the existing posted figures (b), which are certainly over 5 years old (c).

Yes, 2010 makes sense. However, the 2010 counts will not be made available until 2013 or 2014... as is always the case with releasing census figures. It takes time.

I would not assume Caltrans has any more flexibility than the state does at this time. Remember, Caltrans is a state department in a state with a $12 to $20 billion projected budget deficit for next fiscal year.

[bmfarley]

CCDC uploaded new renderings of the proposed Marriot in the Ballpark area, The site is the one bounded by Imperial Avenue, Park, 11th and the Trolley tracks.

Only 2 renderings were provided. I don't know why the south facing view toward the Coronado Bridge was not provided. Seems odd.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/farleybrandon/Marriot1.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/farleybrandon/Marriot2.jpg

A 3 pg pdf file of the rendering is here (http://www.ccdc.com/events/resources/Marriott%20at%20Ballpark%20Village.pdf). Included is a plan drawing.

[CoastersBolts]

I realize these drawings are preliminary, but, I don't like this look. First, they're twin towers (like we don't have enough of those). And the buildings are just not attractive. If you're going to build a flagship hotel, at least make it look somewhat iconic. Look at what Hyatt did with both the Manchester Grand and the Seaport expansion - at least both of those stand out. This Marriott, not so much.

[HurricaneHugo]

I realize these drawings are preliminary, but, I don't like this look. First, they're twin towers (like we don't have enough of those). And the buildings are just not attractive. If you're going to build a flagship hotel, at least make it look somewhat iconic. Look at what Hyatt did with both the Manchester Grand and the Seaport expansion - at least both of those stand out. This Marriott, not so much.

Agreed.

[sandiego_urban]

Thank goodness these are preliminary renderings, because I also hate them! :yuck:

Here's a link to the project description, and more importantly, the CCDC design committee response that criticizes what has been presented to them. While it seems they (as well as many residents and business owners in the area) are in favor of the project, there are concerns about the tower and base design and it's inward appearance (think Horton Plaza).

The last letter by Gwynne Pugh (Attachment D) makes some good suggestions and points out the many flaws of this initial proposal.

http://www.ccdc.com/events/resources/Item%2041.pdf

[Marina_Guy]

Thank goodness these are preliminary renderings, because I also hate them! :yuck:

Here's a link to the project description, and more importantly, the CCDC design committee response that criticizes what has been presented to them. While it seems they (as well as many residents and business owners in the area) are in favor of the project, there are concerns about the tower and base design and it's inward appearance (think Horton Plaza).

The last letter by Gwynne Pugh (Attachment D) makes some good suggestions and points out the many flaws of this initial proposal.

http://www.ccdc.com/events/resources/Item%2041.pdf

Looks like two ugly hospitals with a garage between. Comments by Gwynne P. are well put. The architects could do better.

[SDCAL]

As much as I want to see ballpark village get off the ground, I have to agree with fellow posters in that these renderings are crap

This is blah architecture, and there is nothing going on at street-level

It seems completely boxed-in and ugly. I would hire a new architect

[Fusey]

They look like some crap built in Reno in the 1970's.

[keg92101]

They look like some crap built in Reno in the 1970's.


That's giving them too much credit!

[Derek]

Where did you got those designs? At the toilet store?








I had to.

[ShekelPop]

it looks like they're trying to use the same stone-colored building materials used in the ballpark. i wouldnt mind the marriot design as much if it was just the one tower, but like has been voiced before, the two towers together makes the design less appealing

[bmfarley]

it looks like they're trying to use the same stone-colored building materials used in the ballpark. i wouldnt mind the marriot design as much if it was just the one tower, but like has been voiced before, the two towers together makes the design less appealingYes, I'd agree. Boxy and stale come to mind. Currently, it feels similar to the other tower that is nearing completion on the southwest side of Harbor. This design makes my insides tumble when I think of what he area will look like if this gets built.

But, with this comes opportunity for change and for John Moores to show that he can respond to community feedback.

It would look much more appealing if the sides had more texture or articulation to them. Inset windows or small balconies? Curved ends? Windows facing north and south?

[sandiego_urban]

it looks like they're trying to use the same stone-colored building materials used in the ballpark. i wouldnt mind the marriot design as much if it was just the one tower, but like has been voiced before, the two towers together makes the design less appealing
I'm still not liking it, but you're probably right in saying that it wouldn't be as offensive if there was only one tower. I also think it's a bad idea to match it to the ballpark, because I'd hate to see anything in the East Village look the same. I'm still praying for a massive overhaul of this thing!!


It would look much more appealing if the sides had more texture or articulation to them. Inset windows or small balconies? Curved ends? Windows facing north and south?
My exact thoughts! SOMETHING needs to be done with the sides of towers.

[SDCAL]

Using an organic material on a skyscraper is challenging, and it just doesn't work with this stone slapped to the sides. Slapping the same type of stone on the side of high rises in a pathetic attempt to match the ballpark will not work, it's going to look too planned, too cheap and unimaginative. I thought East Village was going for hip, edgy, modern - - this is just repulsive. The person who said it looks like c 1970 Reno is on the money, that's exactly what these vile excuses for architecture look like.

I hope these idiots don't decide to slap this stone on all major EV projects, like the library if it ever gets built

I don't mean to sound like such a complainer, but EV is the future of downtonw and it's downtown's chance to make a statement and steer away from the Miami-Vancouverish white balcony-infested towers at the bay. These towers are supposed to reach the 500 ft mark, was just really hoping for something that didn't look this boring and hideously pathetic :slob: :slob: :slob: :slob: :slob:

[Marina_Guy]

Using an organic material on a skyscraper is challenging, and it just doesn't work with this stone slapped to the sides. Slapping the same type of stone on the side of high rises in a pathetic attempt to match the ballpark will not work, it's going to look too planned, too cheap and unimaginative. I thought East Village was going for hip, edgy, modern - - this is just repulsive. The person who said it looks like c 1970 Reno is on the money, that's exactly what these vile excuses for architecture look like.

I hope these idiots don't decide to slap this stone on all major EV projects, like the library if it ever gets built

I don't mean to sound like such a complainer, but EV is the future of downtonw and it's downtown's chance to make a statement and steer away from the Miami-Vancouverish white balcony-infested towers at the bay. These towers are supposed to reach the 500 ft mark, was just really hoping for something that didn't look this boring and hideously pathetic :slob: :slob: :slob: :slob: :slob:
These comments are good to hear. I just hope there is enough public uprising to change the design, because right now that project is on a fast track. The mayor is 100% behind it..one big huge chunk of TOT and I don't think he cares one bit about the design.

The only reason the pedestrian bridge is being built now is because of those two hotels (Hilton and now the Marriott). The visitor industry is a very powerful force in SD politics.

Please take the time to go to the design review meeting to share your comments about the design... I think CCAC is discussing it tonight as well.

This area was originally 'zoned' as employment lands...then condos, and now another hotel... a massive hotel. These types of hotels are very busy or extremely dead and I am not sure that type of vacancy is good for the East Village. But I think that issue is mute now.

[bushman61988]

CCDC uploaded new renderings of the proposed Marriot in the Ballpark area, The site is the one bounded by Imperial Avenue, Park, 11th and the Trolley tracks.

Only 2 renderings were provided. I don't know why the south facing view toward the Coronado Bridge was not provided. Seems odd.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/farleybrandon/Marriot1.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/farleybrandon/Marriot2.jpg

A 3 pg pdf file of the rendering is here (http://www.ccdc.com/events/resources/Marriott%20at%20Ballpark%20Village.pdf). Included is a plan drawing.


Using an organic material on a skyscraper is challenging, and it just doesn't work with this stone slapped to the sides. Slapping the same type of stone on the side of high rises in a pathetic attempt to match the ballpark will not work, it's going to look too planned, too cheap and unimaginative. I thought East Village was going for hip, edgy, modern - - this is just repulsive. The person who said it looks like c 1970 Reno is on the money, that's exactly what these vile excuses for architecture look like.

I hope these idiots don't decide to slap this stone on all major EV projects, like the library if it ever gets built

I don't mean to sound like such a complainer, but EV is the future of downtown and it's downtown's chance to make a statement and steer away from the Miami-Vancouverish white balcony-infested towers at the bay. These towers are supposed to reach the 500 ft mark, was just really hoping for something that didn't look this boring and hideously pathetic :slob: :slob: :slob: :slob: :slob:


I really could not have said it better myself. Just look at these pathetic monstrosities...

It combines the bulkiness of the new Hilton Convention Center Hotel with the dreadful plainess of the north and south sides of the Hyatt, not to mention the awful, enormous podium that seems to completely enclose and encase the project even WORSE than the present Manchester Hyatt complex does, to the point where it almost seems like a Las Vegas Resort.


I was glad to see that in the design review panel basically pan the project for its absolute complete lack of retail (I think Marriott was proposing a ridiculous 7,000 sq ft of retail throughout the entire project!), the atrocious design, the massive podium, the Twin tower problem, and the shortening of the towers while making them bulkier, when it should be the exact opposite.

I also tried to get earlier preliminary plans of the project that seemed much nicer although still flawed.


I really will try to go to the next design review panel with my union (Unite Here, Local 30) who have interest in the project, but not for the design issues, and comment on the hideousness.

This is the perfect spot as any to build 700-foot towers, with a location that is FAR from the airport approach, and that ridiculous 500-foot blanket that is placed over the whole of Downtown as opposed to a more stepped-down height limit (don’t even get me started on that).

Alas, the powers that be will probably have this project rammed through like that damn Hilton Convention Center Hotel (which, I admit, didn’t come out as bad as I thought).



Here’s some links to the Master Plan with drawings

http://www.onlinecpi.org/downloads/Ballpark%20Village%20Master%20Plan.pdf (on page 25 is the reference to height limit)

http://www.onlinecpi.org/article.php?list=type&type=246

[sandiego_urban]

This is the perfect spot as any to build 700-foot towers, with a location that is FAR from the airport approach, and that ridiculous 500-foot blanket that is placed over the whole of Downtown as opposed to a more stepped-down height limit (don’t even get me started on that).
Well said!

Maybe it's just an optical illusion, but it appears that the crane for Vantage Pointe might be 50'-75' taller than Symphony Towers (499') on the left and no planes have crashed into it so far....

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/last1.jpg

[malsponger]

^^ Good call. If anything Vantage Pointe would be a tad further than Symphony towers from this reference (Omni?) so I do not see how an optical illusion would be possible. Alas, something has risen above 500ft.

[malsponger]

Oh and I also just noticed Google Earth updated their San Diego satellite image! No more half complete ballpark and warehoused East Village.

[bmfarley]

Oh and I also just noticed Google Earth updated their San Diego satellite image! No more half complete ballpark and warehoused East Village.Sweet observation. I looked at GE yesterday and didn't notice. Maybe it occured in the past 24 hours.

Now... pick the date images were captured! I'll estimate sometime in February or March 2008.... before daylight savings took effect, and before the homeles tent at Tailgate Park downtown was taken down.
I notice there is activity inside Petco and the pool for Fit Athletic isunder construction. I believe it lloked like that in February or early March.

Additionally, it's a weekday. Probably before 3 or 3:30pm.

Interestingly, it looks like only the downtown area was updated. San Ysidro definately was not. And, some photo stitching puts 2 planes landing at Lindbergh at only 0.70 miles apart on their approach.

[bmfarley]

^^ Good call. If anything Vantage Pointe would be a tad further than Symphony towers from this reference (Omni?) so I do not see how an optical illusion would be possible. Alas, something has risen above 500ft.Temporary permits are granted for things like cranes. Don't worry, the FAA and airplanes know that that crane is there.

[Derek]

Wouldn't they know that a building is there? :D


Actually, think about that one.

[Fusey]

Oh and I also just noticed Google Earth updated their San Diego satellite image! No more half complete ballpark and warehoused East Village.

Not on Google Maps yet. That seriously drives me nuts. When were those satellite images taken? 2002 or 2003?

[malsponger]

Sweet observation. I looked at GE yesterday and didn't notice. Maybe it occured in the past 24 hours.

Now... pick the date images were captured! I'll estimate sometime in February or March 2008.... before daylight savings took effect, and before the homeles tent at Tailgate Park downtown was taken down.
I notice there is activity inside Petco and the pool for Fit Athletic isunder construction. I believe it lloked like that in February or early March.

Additionally, it's a weekday. Probably before 3 or 3:30pm.

Interestingly, it looks like only the downtown area was updated. San Ysidro definately was not. And, some photo stitching puts 2 planes landing at Lindbergh at only 0.70 miles apart on their approach.

They actually do a pretty good job at merging images together. It looks like they might be using roads to do this which is clever. To the north I think the new image ends at University Avenue (????) because Mission Valley has also not been updated but Hillcrest has (Mi Arbolito). Funny enough I also noticed that airplane thing.

Judging from Breeza and Bayside I would have to say its sometime at the start of the year. I have a folder with pictures of Breeza from 3/9 and it was topped out with the "smokestack" thing already in place. In the GE shot it looks like theyre about to poor another floor slab. Based on the shadows, Sapphire couldn't have been much higher than 11-13 floors. On 3/9 it was at about 24 floors. I would have to guess its more around January. As far as time of day and week. You're spot on. Early afternoon. Ah yes, and the ice skating rink is still there. Didn't they take that out early this year?

[IconRPCV]

Well said!

Maybe it's just an optical illusion, but it appears that the crane for Vantage Pointe might be 50'-75' taller than Symphony Towers (499') on the left and no planes have crashed into it so far....

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/last1.jpg

It is no illusion. I drive up 11th street every day. That crane must be 600 or more feet at its top. If the crane can be there without interfering than why can't a building. I keep imagining what a building as tall as the crane would look and feel like to the rest of downtown. It is quite amazing how much more of a presence those 100 feet make. It seems like you can see the crane peaking over buildings no matter where you are in the east village, whereas the 500 foot Symphony Towers is not nearly as much of a presence.

[malsponger]

Yeah first the 5 messing up Balboa Park. Then the airport messing up the skyline. This city has issues. I took an urban geography class in college and we touched a lot on San Diego's history and how there were such great plans for Balboa Park to make it similar to Central Park in New York. Then the 5 comes in and splits the whole darn thing up. While its still close, having to cross over a freeway is not pedestrian friendly by any means. What will be San Diego's next decision. This city is great I won't deny that. But it could also be so much greater.

[staplesla]

Yeah first the 5 messing up Balboa Park. Then the airport messing up the skyline. This city has issues. I took an urban geography class in college and we touched a lot on San Diego's history and how there were such great plans for Balboa Park to make it similar to Central Park in New York. Then the 5 comes in and splits the whole darn thing up. While its still close, having to cross over a freeway is not pedestrian friendly by any means. What will be San Diego's next decision. This city is great I won't deny that. But it could also be so much greater.


Dallas was facing the same problem and they've decided to build a park deck over the freeway connecting Downtown Dallas and Uptown. Maybe the same thing could be done over the 5.

http://www.wrpproject.com

[HurricaneHugo]

there are plans to do just that here, but it costs money...

[malsponger]

Dallas was facing the same problem and they've decided to build a park deck over the freeway connecting Downtown Dallas and Uptown. Maybe the same thing could be done over the 5.

http://www.wrpproject.com

While that would be just dandy. The area around the park has already been built up so it seems like it will never officially be an extension of downtown. Not to mention it sits directly under the flight approach path so it's not like much could go up anyways.

Its pure imaginative but how great would it be if Cortez Hill was not as much of a transition as it is and instead was all high rises, and those high rises continued nroth on 6th and 5th outlining Balboa Park. So in essence, yes like Central Park.

[sandiego_urban]

It is no illusion. I drive up 11th street every day. That crane must be 600 or more feet at its top. If the crane can be there without interfering than why can't a building.
Exactly! As bmfarley said, it was the FAA who approved the height of the crane, so what's the problem here?!?


While that would be just dandy. The area around the park has already been built up so it seems like it will never officially be an extension of downtown. Not to mention it sits directly under the flight approach path so it's not like much could go up anyways.

Its pure imaginative but how great would it be if Cortez Hill was not as much of a transition as it is and instead was all high rises, and those high rises continued nroth on 6th and 5th outlining Balboa Park. So in essence, yes like Central Park.
If the proposed freeway lid between Cortez Hill and Balboa Park ever gets built, Cortez Hill could end up being downtown's most desirable neighborhood. As it is now, CH seems pretty isolated but I bet it's residents like it that way.

Here's a link to info about the proposed parks for downtown that includes a great map on Page 3. A brief summary of the freeway lids can be found on Page 5.

http://www.ccdc.com/planupdate/pdf/04_SDCP_Parks.pdf

[sandiego_urban]

Finally, some good news from today's U-T ......


COUNCIL APPROVES FUNDING FOR PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE

May 14, 2008

SAN DIEGO: Downtown San Diego will get its iconic pedestrian bridge over Harbor Drive, after the City Council approved the $26.8 million price tag yesterday.

The bridge will extend from Petco Park to the Port of San Diego's recently built public parking garage. The budget has grown since the original estimate of $12.8 million in 2005.

The funding was approved by the council, although Councilwoman Donna Frye said, “It's kind of a tough call to authorize that kind of money for a bridge, quite frankly.”

Councilman Jim Madaffer suggested that, in the future, the downtown redevelopment agency should leave bridge building to the city's engineering department or the California Department of Transportation.

The cost will be offset by federal and state grants and a contribution from Padres owner John Moores' real estate company. Downtown agency officials said they are trying for another government grant of $8.4 million. –J.S.

[HurricaneHugo]

that is way too much for a bridge

i can design one for 1/4 the cost

[keg92101]

Exactly! As bmfarley said, it was the FAA who approved the height of the crane, so what's the problem here?!?



If the proposed freeway lid between Cortez Hill and Balboa Park ever gets built, Cortez Hill could end up being downtown's most desirable neighborhood. As it is now, CH seems pretty isolated but I bet it's residents like it that way.

Here's a link to info about the proposed parks for downtown that includes a great map on Page 3. A brief summary of the freeway lids can be found on Page 5.

http://www.ccdc.com/planupdate/pdf/04_SDCP_Parks.pdf

My wife is doing her Master's Thesis at the NewSchool of Architecture on a Freeway lid over I-5 between Sherman Heights and East Village. The book will include design, feasablitiy, etc... If anyone is interested in a copy, let me know!

[staplesla]

My spouse works for the company who is overseeing the proposed California High Speed Rail. I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are.

http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov

[bmfarley]

My spouse works for the company who is overseeing the proposed California High Speed Rail. I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are.

http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov

It's a good project and I support it. Because travelers will be diverted to it rather than driving cars or flying, it mitigates future roadways congestion and the need to build more highways and airports (or runways and terminal gates). It also can be credited for reducing air pollution and greenhouse gases AND help wean the State and country away from foreign oil from unstable countries. In a sense, it supports national security and provides independence.

Its capital construction is expensive, but anticipated ridership indicates it will collect more fare revenue than cost to run operations. Thus, it makes money. It will provide an economic stimulus for the State at a time when it is needed most... as over 100,000 jobs will be created.

It really seems like a huge win-win.

Some will say the State cannot afford it right now. But, the November bond initiative only approves the barrowing. The larger debt will not actually be created until the Authority is ready to begin construction, which will be in phases and not for 2-5 years from now. Initial payments will also be small. And, there is zero connectivity to the immediate fiscal year 2008-2009 state budget.

I believe it's in California's future; it's only a matter of time.

For San Diego... the region vetted the best alignment and station location a few years ago; Santa Fe Depot and as an aerial structure. That will probably need to be revisited with all the condo developments that have gone up there. But, for downtown I would think the business, commercial and retail should see a huge boost. After all, about 36,000 people would use the station on a daily basis; or about half as many as Lindbergh does presently.

By the way, CHSR is on page 44 on another thread on this site (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=124572&page=44).

I recommend this blog site (http://cahsr.blogspot.com/)for learning more.

State Alignment and Expected Travel Time/Comparisons
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/farleybrandon/Rail/ModeTime.jpg

Southern California Alignment
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/farleybrandon/Rail/HSR-SoCal.jpg

San Diego Region
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/farleybrandon/Rail/HSR-SD.jpg

[malsponger]

I would definitely be for a high speed line connecting San Diego to Los Angeles Metro. It's funny how there is strong consideration on a toll road that runs pretty much parallel to an already existing freeway (????) By yielding to drivers you only encourage driving when what should be encourage are alternatives.


Let's not spend hundreds of millions widening freeways to handle more volume, or building new ones. Spend it to eliminate the need to drive.

[HurricaneHugo]

You mean spend it so that SF and LA get their toys while SD gets nothing.

[SDCAL]

Southern California Alignment
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/farleybrandon/Rail/HSR-SoCal.jpg

San Diego Region
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/farleybrandon/Rail/HSR-SD.jpg

I am surprised the direct link is through Riverside and not Irvine. That increases the time to downtown LA.

I used to commute to Irvine and know many, many people do for jobs as well. I suppose alot also commute to Riverside, I am just cruious why the link through Riverside was deemed better than up the coast through Irvine. To get to Irvine would mean going east through Riverside, then through LA and back down, very impractical

[bmfarley]

You mean spend it so that SF and LA get their toys while SD gets nothing.I wouldn't call it a toy. Lindbergh is not one why should this project be considered simply b/c it's not yet a reality here yet?

By the way AB 3034 is before the legislature right now. It'll likely pass. That bill will allow any segment of the systm to move forward with prioritization to available funding and likely success (ridership). LA - SF as a first phase will no longer be the legislatively prioritized first phase and San Diego should be well positioned.

[bmfarley]

I am surprised the direct link is through Riverside and not Irvine. That increases the time to downtown LA.

I used to commute to Irvine and know many, many people do for jobs as well. I suppose alot also commute to Riverside, I am just cruious why the link through Riverside was deemed better than up the coast through Irvine. To get to Irvine would mean going east through Riverside, then through LA and back down, very impractical

I'd agree. I believe San Diego County coastal communities objected to HSR through their bergs. Maybe Southern Orange County objected too?

I'd like to see a more direct link too... perhaps cut over from Temecula or Murrieta to Irvine... assuming topography allowed with relatively limited financial risk.

[IconRPCV]

I think the alignment up the 15 is meant to alleviate some of the congestion on the 15 from downtown to Temecula. There is commuter rail going up the 5. I for one am glad to see this alignment. If this comes to fruition then SD's two major north south corridors will be serviced by rail.

[malsponger]

This might have been discussed on here already but how about that empty space behind America Plaza on Kettner and B. I know it's underground parking. I am assuming Irvine Company owns that too? Is anything planned to go on top of that? What a waste of great space.

[IconRPCV]

I wouldn't call it a toy. Lindbergh is not one why should this project be considered simply b/c it's not yet a reality here yet?

By the way AB 3034 is before the legislature right now. It'll likely pass. That bill will allow any segment of the systm to move forward with prioritization to available funding and likely success (ridership). LA - SF as a first phase will no longer be the legislatively prioritized first phase and San Diego should be well positioned.

So is the SD to LA segment no longer regulated to the second phase? If this is so then this is great news.