SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[SDCAL]

I can't imagine san diegans kicking out the Marines in favor of a new airport when we're throwing so much at the current one. There's really no need for a larger airport here, LAX is a few hours away, no other cities in America have two major hubs so close. Most our visitors coming from abroad are on long trips visiting all the CA cities not flying into and leaving from SAN. You can fly into SAN from almost any city in the US, and Tijuana internation airport supports 4+ million a year. The only thing the our airport is holding us back on is our downtown height limit, which isn't a big enough deal to move an airport.

Nobody is suggesting moving the airport solely for the building height. A lot of money has been put into the current airport (a mistake, in my opinion). Look at where it's all going: new parking structures, new terminals, new restaurants, new lounges. Notice what's missing? New runway space. Eventually that will catch up to the airport, unless technology outpaces growth, which doesn't seem likely. They keep building more places to park, ticket, and wait and eventually they will need more runway space if growth keeps up. This might not be for 20-30 years, but when you talk about the politics, planning, and construction of an airport it would take about that long to accomplish. My fear is this often backwards city will wait until the airport starts backing up and then hastily try to find a solution instead of doing it now when there's time to plan appropriately. There is also the issue of Miramar, and how viable it is to have it at that location as the metro area continues to grow. Base closures/moves happen and each time local communities whine about it, but it is what it is. It happened when they closed El Toro in OC, people were angry about it, but when there is rationale these decisions need to be made. I think if they were given like a 5-10 year warning period that it will be closed or relocated, the community would accept it much better than suddenly doing it which is what will be the case if we continue to kick the can down the road. The current airport will be moved at some point, and Miramar will also be relocated at some point. The questions is if it will be in our lifetimes.

[The Flying Dutchman]

Don't forget the very real proposition of sea level rise, which could affect all of coastal San Diego, including downtown and the airport.

[spoonman]

I can't imagine san diegans kicking out the Marines in favor of a new airport when we're throwing so much at the current one. There's really no need for a larger airport here, LAX is a few hours away, no other cities in America have two major hubs so close. Most our visitors coming from abroad are on long trips visiting all the CA cities not flying into and leaving from SAN. You can fly into SAN from almost any city in the US, and Tijuana internation airport supports 4+ million a year. The only thing the our airport is holding us back on is our downtown height limit, which isn't a big enough deal to move an airport.

This typifies the problem. Looking at today and not tomorrow. SAN is the busiest single runway airport in the US and the second busiest single runway airport in the world. Do you really think the single runway will continue to serve the airport and metro in another 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years?

Annual passenger traffic has doubled in the past 25 years and continues to grow at about 1/2 million passengers each year. The airport is on a tiny parcel of land that we are continually reconfiguring ($$) to make it efficient enough to keep up. Despite the addition of terminal space and parking, the airport will never have a second runway freeing up more slots and preventing/alleviating delays. Unless a true secondary airport or new airport is built, SAN will start running into major issues in the next 10-20 years. Coincidentally this is how long it takes to build and plan a new airport. Again, this is why you have to look past 2017.

Regarding hubs and other airports, why would we want to depend on LAX (who are having their own capacity issues with 80M PAX) for anything? There is no rail connection, traffic continues to get worse each year, and LAX is a mess. Tourists shouldn't have to drive from Miramar to DTSD/Beaches, but SD residents should have to drive to LAX ?? :shrug:

[Boatguy619]

Anytime I fly international I usually have a connecting flight at LAX, I dont drive there. It's actually a nice flight cruising low over so cal for a half hour. But I get your point, it would be nice to have more direct flights from here. But at what cost to tax payers? How much of it is federally funded vs state vs local? I've checked all over the Internet for these answer and there doesn't seem to be a definite one. I did find however that the improvements currently happening at SAN are funded through Passenger Facility Charges that travelers pay when booking tickets. So the improvements we see isnt being paid for by us (unless you fly) I doubt PFC are enough to construct a new airport.

[Alan in Clairemont]

I love this thread...I think we are stuck with SAN / Lindbergh. It will be interesting to see what comes out of the Terminal 1 expansion. A lot of work going to be done there....but one runway it is...

1) The Marines main jet base on the West Coast is Miramar...IF they closed a base it would probably be MCAS Yuma and move everything there to Miramar and Pendleton.

2) Note the Marines have invested a TON of money in Miramar, so another reason they aren't going anywhere. I grew up in Scripps Ranch and was in the Marines for 6 years. That base is completely different and much larger from when the Navy had it.

3) Miramar vote failed because the NIMBY's in the Scripps Ranch, Rancho Penasquitos, Mira Mesa, La Jolla all have money to burn to go against initiatives that would possibly adversely affect their home prices (nothing will stop that juggernaut in actuality). So they blew that opportunity (and it was ripe for the picking at the time). I don't recall if that was non-binding or not. I voted for it.

4) Brown Field is a no go unless you do A LOT of earthmoving with the mountains to the East (FAA restrictions currently). You also have a lot of money to go against it in the East Lake communities. That said, there is major work planned for civil aviation at Brown Field.

5) Floating airport.....LOL, although to their credit, no one mentioned that in this thread...

[The Flying Dutchman]

I predict nothing will get done, SAN will remain but increase in cost to travelers, while TIJ airport becomes more and more popular.

[spoonman]

Doing nothing is in San Diego's DNA. On that I'm sure we can all agree.

[SDCAL]

Deleted duplicate

[SDCAL]

1) The Marines main jet base on the West Coast is Miramar...IF they closed a base it would probably be MCAS Yuma and move everything there to Miramar and Pendleton.

It's not going anywhere anytime soon, but it will eventually. I've lived in SD for 20 years now and there's always the same argument that Miramar is a sacred cow and won't go anywhere.

But, the argument has been getting weaker and less aggressive.

20 years ago people would attack you and say you're "anti-American" if you even hinted at closing or moving Miramar. Today, people seem less fervent about it and more logical and they say things like, "it probably would be better for the city but I doubt it will happen," and then give reasons like yours.

The reason I think you're wrong is because of the increasing housing shortage.

In the last 5 years or so a "housing crisis" has become huge headlines in the news. San Diego keeps growing and we are running out of anywhere to build single family homes much less homes in general.

Even if the airport doesn't move at some point (a couple decades from now) the viability of keeping Miramar in its current location needs to be re-examined. Suggesting closing Yuma - located in a much smaller city with lots of space - and moving it to Miramar in the middle of a large city with a housing crisis will not fly. People are not as blindly loyal to these bases as they were 30 years ago. It would make way more sense to move Miramar to Yuma not the other way around. Or, combine Miramar with Pendleton, but that would probably bring resistance from cranky south oc NYMBYs.

[HurricaneHugo]

Doing nothing is in San Diego's DNA. On that I'm sure we can all agree.

The city prides itself in having less options than most cities its size.

[HurricaneHugo]

Also people say the airport location is "convenient" but Miramar would be almost dead center of the population of the County.

And you save 30 mins or so due to the downtown location...but you pay for that with a 3-5 hour layover...

[IMBY]

I agree. This is easily the nicest tower built in San Diego in years...maybe ever. I'm struggling to think of another more unique, elegant building. They did a great job on it.

How can you ever go wrong, architecturally, with curves to the building!!! This arose since my last trip down there, couple years ago, and given what a sucker I am for curved buildings with glass, I look forward to it on my trip down there next month. Then off to Tijuana for dental work, Angeles Hospital for a consultation, overnight in Rosarito, and catch a museum or 2 in Balboa Park before my flight back the next day.

[aerogt3]

This typifies the problem. Looking at today and not tomorrow. SAN is the busiest single runway airport in the US and the second busiest single runway airport in the world. Do you really think the single runway will continue to serve the airport and metro in another 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years?

It's actually the third busiest runway in the world, but passenger count is what matters, and you can't say SAN is super busy or limited when it's carrying < half the number of passengers of other single runway airports....

London Gatwick is single runway with 43M pax compared to SAN's 20M, and Mumbai has 45M. So SAN can increase passenger traffic. Those tiny GA planes carrying 2 people could be 787s holding 400. Same for airlines moving from 320s to larger aircraft. Same for those 25 daily flights to LA. And it will happen, when the demand is there.

SAN can serve more passengers, probably for many more years' demand. Pretty sure someone looked at that before dropping a billion dollars into improvements :haha:

What you are getting at is a bit like a transit agency saying they need entirely new subway lines because they cannot run more frequent trains on existing lines (but each train is 4 cars long when it could be 10...)

[SDCAL]

^ I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison comparing SAN to LGW and BOM.

Those airports have a longer runway and can handle bigger aircraft. They also have more room to maneuver planes and aren't as constrained as SAN. They are also 24 hour operations and don't have the curfew issue SAN does. Looking at the growth of SAN over the last few years, if it stayed roughly the same we would be approaching the passenger traffic of around 35-40m in 30 years and are in no way shape or form able to run the type of 24 hour, larger plane operation GTW and BOM do at that site. Maybe they did a cost analysis and the billion dollars will pay for itself in 2 or 3 decades but eventually it will have to move. I think the argument is that if the city was run better it would have been proactively done BEFORE it's needed, you know so it's seamless; this city tends to wait until ill effects are already imminent and being experienced before they act. And that's exactly what they'll do with the airport.

[mello]

^ I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison comparing SAN to LGW and BOM.
Those airports have a longer runway and can handle bigger aircraft.

The bolded section is wrong I have evidence with my own eyes (posted this a few pages back), in the fall I witnessed from the roof of the new rental car facility the BA 747 take off reverse on a strong Santa Ana event. The jet was lifting off near terminal 1 (Not West of T1) with PLENTY of room to spare and cleared steep Bankers Hill by a large margin. Next up a heavy Fed Ex cargo jet same thing pulled up no prob and soars above BH with ease :cheers:

Now what you wrote about space to maneuver around the runway, taxiway, and terminal gates could be an issue but runway length is definitely not an issue as far as capacity goes at SAN.

[SDCAL]

The bolded section is wrong I have evidence with my own eyes (posted this a few pages back), in the fall I witnessed from the roof of the new rental car facility the BA 747 take off reverse on a strong Santa Ana event. The jet was lifting off near terminal 1 (Not West of T1) with PLENTY of room to spare and cleared steep Bankers Hill by a large margin. Next up a heavy Fed Ex cargo jet same thing pulled up no prob and soars above BH with ease :cheers:

Now what you wrote about space to maneuver around the runway, taxiway, and terminal gates could be an issue but runway length is definitely not an issue as far as capacity goes at SAN.

I've been to Mumbai, and they have 24 hour operations with large long haul flights taking off 24 hours a day to London, Frankfurt, Dubai, Tokyo, Bangkok, etc, etc. (including Air India and United direct from Newark on 777s). They also have 787 Dreamliner BA airlines. My point is I don't think SAN is equipped to handle large volume large aircraft like that with the combination of factors including the short runway. I'm well aware of the BA service at SAN, but I've also heard previous attempts at overseas service from San Diego required less fuel and had certain weight restrictions for either take off or landing, perhaps someone can confirm if that's still the case. SAN would likely never need the type of high volume long haul traffic Mumbai has (it was another poster making the comparison, I was pointing out why it's not a good one) and that makes for an even bigger problem in the future with frequency as we approach 30m in the coming decades if our model is smaller, shorter flights that need to be more frequent as passenger volume increases.

[chris08876]

Not sure if this was posted in the past, but its a neat development map for SD.

:star: MAP: http://sandiego.urbdezine.com/development-map/

Yellow balloon = entitlement or funding incomplete / construction not started; Red balloon = under construction; Blue balloon = construction completed; Green square = new park / plaza

There's a list below the map indicating developments in current stages; u/c, u/c complete, parks (new) and proposed. Also, if you click on the blib, a rendering and brief description comes up.

Maybe the thread starter or a mod can add to the front page as a resource.

[aerogt3]

^ I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison comparing SAN to LGW and BOM.

Those airports have a longer runway and can handle bigger aircraft. They also have more room to maneuver planes and aren't as constrained as SAN. They are also 24 hour operations and don't have the curfew issue SAN does.

Runway length is not an issue. Maybe 20 years ago it was, but airlines can run 400+ pax flights out of SAN on several modern aircraft - 777s, 787s, 350s, etc, and even some older ones (767, 330, 340.) SAN can accommodate any aircraft except the A380, which honestly no airline would fly there even if they could.

24 operations: Gatwick has restrictions on operation from 23:00 until 6:00, much like SAN. According to Gatwick's website, they had 280,000 aircraft movements in 2016. Only 14,000 of those (5%) depart/arrive between 23:00 and 6:00. I can't find exact data, but my personal experience with Gatwick is that those night flights are often cargo. I just looked at overnight traffic for the last two days, and even during busy summer season, there were.... zero passenger departures during those hours. I can see only one landing from yesterday from Cuba at 5:15, which would be allowed at SAN as well. The fact is, if we assume half of all movements are landings (they better be :haha:), then at minimum, 97.5% of Gatwick's passengers fly during normal SAN operating hours.

SAN can grow to Gatwick levels of pax on a single runway, which represents 2-3 decades of projected use, simply by replacing 30 seat aircraft with 300 seat aircraft. And that will happen, when demand is there. And that's without considering other factors. High speed rail and autonomous ground transport will probably decrease airport utilization, and new air traffic control systems will increase the frequency of aircraft movements, increasing the number of aircraft that each runway can handle:

The FAA's Laura Brown says ADS-B will help reduce congestion in several ways. "Because it will provide such precise information about where planes are located, we think we'll be able to operate them closer to one another in some parts of the air space," she says. "Which means more capacity." Brown adds that the system will allow controllers to handle more aircraft, which means fewer handoffs from controller to controller. "Ultimately, the system is more effective if you are able to limit the amount of communication back and forth."

Combining all of these factors, its easy to see why the billion dollars investment in SAN was made: the location will have adequate capacity well into the future.

[The Flying Dutchman]

Theoretically, HSR will service SAN decades from now, which should help alleviate future demand. I'd be curious to see stats on trips to and from SAN, and how much of traffic is "local" (in-state). SAN may transition to more international flights as we are already seeing while HSR picks up the slack for travelers heading to various parts of the state. Someone here said once that airlines prefer longer trips as they are more profitable. My 2c.

[The Flying Dutchman]

Oh and, Park/11th/Market at the former site of Quartyard (which is moving a few blocks east next to Alpha Square) has already begun demolition. This is the new UCSD outpost, if you'll recall. Apologies if someone already posted this.

https://www.trbimg.com/img-584efdaa/turbine/sd-fi-ucsddowntown-20161208

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-ucsddowntown-20161208-story.html

[Northparkwizard]

9th and Broadway Apartments
(http://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/800-Broadway-Drawings-7.7.17_reduced.pdf)
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4254/35804970746_3aa8aac463_o.png (https://flic.kr/p/WxXQnQ)
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4254/35804970736_d90176e626_o.png (https://flic.kr/p/WxXQnE)
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4232/35804970566_68c1c97d13_o.png (https://flic.kr/p/WxXQjJ)

[SDCAL]

Theoretically, HSR will service SAN decades from now, which should help alleviate future demand. I'd be curious to see stats on trips to and from SAN, and how much of traffic is "local" (in-state). SAN may transition to more international flights as we are already seeing while HSR picks up the slack for travelers heading to various parts of the state. Someone here said once that airlines prefer longer trips as they are more profitable. My 2c.

As far as I know the SD leg of HSR is not at all a given, it's sort of a "maybe" if the LA-SF route gets complete and is a success. As it is now, politicians are trying to stop the LA-SF portion that's already under construction and cut of funding. Do you really think SD will get HSR, and if so do you think it will be before 2050? I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but my projection is the airport will be moved before we ever get HSR here.

[The Flying Dutchman]

As far as I know the SD leg of HSR is not at all a given, it's sort of a "maybe" if the LA-SF route gets complete and is a success. As it is now, politicians are trying to stop the LA-SF portion that's already under construction and cut of funding. Do you really think SD will get HSR, and if so do you think it will be before 2050? I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but my projection is the airport will be moved before we ever get HSR here.

Who knows. I think the portion between LA and SF will get built for sure, despite the politics. Reason being there is too much real estate interest inland and need for growth. The Pacific Surfliner (3rd busiest corridor in U.S.) with all the current double-tracking will speed things up between SD and LA.

So no, I don't think we'll ever get it down here, and if we do, San Diego will be underwater by then :titanic:

[Nerv]

Runway length is not an issue. Maybe 20 years ago it was, but airlines can run 400+ pax flights out of SAN on several modern aircraft - 777s, 787s, 350s, etc, and even some older ones (767, 330, 340.) SAN can accommodate any aircraft except the A380, which honestly no airline would fly there even if they could.

24 operations: Gatwick has restrictions on operation from 23:00 until 6:00, much like SAN. According to Gatwick's website, they had 280,000 aircraft movements in 2016. Only 14,000 of those (5%) depart/arrive between 23:00 and 6:00. I can't find exact data, but my personal experience with Gatwick is that those night flights are often cargo. I just looked at overnight traffic for the last two days, and even during busy summer season, there were.... zero passenger departures during those hours. I can see only one landing from yesterday from Cuba at 5:15, which would be allowed at SAN as well. The fact is, if we assume half of all movements are landings (they better be :haha:), then at minimum, 97.5% of Gatwick's passengers fly during normal SAN operating hours.

SAN can grow to Gatwick levels of pax on a single runway, which represents 2-3 decades of projected use, simply by replacing 30 seat aircraft with 300 seat aircraft. And that will happen, when demand is there. And that's without considering other factors. High speed rail and autonomous ground transport will probably decrease airport utilization, and new air traffic control systems will increase the frequency of aircraft movements, increasing the number of aircraft that each runway can handle:



Combining all of these factors, its easy to see why the billion dollars investment in SAN was made: the location will have adequate capacity well into the future.


I know air crashes are rare but I'm still concerned one day the city is going to see something like the 1978 crash but with much more damage.

Despite the 500 foot height limit San Diego's downtown has become far to built up and dense to not think having an airport so close is a terrible location and that it's only a matter of time before the luck runs out again and something bad happens.

Pilots at best find it a challenging airport at worst one that makes them nervous.

I remember commenting to a pilot friend about how spectacular the view is when arriving at SD airport and him telling me well you're not the one landing a plane in it. Lol

[Nerv]

So no, I don't think we'll ever get it down here, and if we do, San Diego will be underwater by then :titanic:

You can see here: http://inewsource.org/2016/12/05/future-sea-level-rise-flood-san-diego/. What rising water levels would look like.

[The Flying Dutchman]

Cool, thanks.:cheers:

[SDCAL]

I know air crashes are rare but I'm still concerned one day the city is going to see something like the 1978 crash but with much more damage.

Despite the 500 foot height limit San Diego's downtown has become far to built up and dense to not think having an airport so close is a terrible location and that it's only a matter of time before the luck runs out again and something bad happens.

Pilots at best find it a challenging airport at worst one that makes them nervous.

I remember commenting to a pilot friend about how spectacular the view is when arriving at SD airport and him telling me well you're not the one landing a plane in it. Lol

Good point. What I was trying to convey in my previous posts, albeit probably not very clearly, is that all these "little" things start to add up. The one runway. The short runway. The urban location. The topography that presents challenging landings. I realize people can pick apart each one and make justifications on how it's "doable," but at some point it has to be asked how viable this location will co tinue to be as the city continues to grow. Speaking of plane accidents, wasn't it Mike Pence's plane that slid off the runway at Laguardia recently? Laguardia has a short runway at 7000ft, I believe SAN is only a couple thousand ft longer at around 9000 ft. It's not pleasant to think about and maybe the danger is minimal but it is there

[The Flying Dutchman]

The 10 Most Difficult Airports for Pilots in the U.S.
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/articles/professional-articles/the-10-most-difficult-airports-to-land-in-the-u-s.html

SAN #9, right behind LaGuardia at #7.

[SDfan]

In the future we might see buildings above 500' rise in the UTC area and Mission Valley.

Ha! No we won't. Miramar keeps the UTC skyline in check, and MV has strict height limits in place.

[joemamma]

Anyone with some new pics of downtown development? Its been a while since this forum has shown some progress pics.

[sixonenine]

Does national city have a building height limit?

[Streamliner]

Anyone with some new pics of downtown development? Its been a while since this forum has shown some progress pics.

San Diego always get sidetracked with our bimonthly height limit/airport discussion :cheers:

But seriously, I hope someone goes out during Comic-Con for pictures. I'm always fascinated by the giant advertisements and interesting sights around town during the convention.

[The Flying Dutchman]

7th & Market (Ritz) scheduled for trial in Oct.

http://dcpcsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/170621-Meeting-Minutes.pdf

[superfishy]

San Diego always get sidetracked with our bimonthly height limit/airport discussion :cheers:

But seriously, I hope someone goes out during Comic-Con for pictures. I'm always fascinated by the giant advertisements and interesting sights around town during the convention.

Yea, I've been a lurker here for quite a while and this topic has come up like half a dozen times. The same points just get recycled.

Anyway, I work in Downtown this weekend, I'll see if I can snap some pictures. I noticed that just within this past week, something in the Makers Quarter project along F street started construction.

[Dariusb]

Just wondering but how many stories is San Diego's tallest building and is a new tallest on the horizon?

[spoonman]

Tallest by floor count is 45 stories. Tallest by height is 500ft. All buildings in DTSD are capped at 500ft due to proximity to SAN. There is no new "tallest " on the horizon as we have already built to the max height limit. Unless the rules change there will only be additional " tallest " buildings, but nothing setting a new record.

[chris08876]

An excellent view of DT. Can see some cranes. From late June. Recommend full screen.

VO8sUgq7elA

What a beautiful city you guys have.

[mbb]

Who knows. I think the portion between LA and SF will get built for sure, despite the politics. Reason being there is too much real estate interest inland and need for growth. The Pacific Surfliner (3rd busiest corridor in U.S.) with all the current double-tracking will speed things up between SD and LA.

So no, I don't think we'll ever get it down here, and if we do, San Diego will be underwater by then :titanic:

Much more important for a connection to LAX are the two extensions of the LA Metro Green line. There's already a rail connection from San Diego to Norwalk / Santa Fe Springs, and the Green line should connect from there directly to LAX much sooner than high speed rail will be built to San Diego. The connection would likely be faster, too, since high speed rail will only take you to Union Station, from which you'd have to take the (under construction extension of the) Blue line and transfer to the Green line, or the (under construction extension of the) Expo line and transfer to the (under construction) Crenshaw line.

[Streamliner]

An excellent view of DT. Can see some cranes. From late June. Recommend full screen.

VO8sUgq7elA

What a beautiful city you guys have.

Great video, San Diego has one of the best views for landings. The left side of the plane is pretty good too with the views of Balboa Park, but this side is my favorite.

I had to pause it multiple times just to take in the foreground and background. Lots of construction!

[Streamliner]

Much more important for a connection to LAX are the two extensions of the LA Metro Green line. There's already a rail connection from San Diego to Norwalk / Santa Fe Springs, and the Green line should connect from there directly to LAX much sooner than high speed rail will be built to San Diego. The connection would likely be faster, too, since high speed rail will only take you to Union Station, from which you'd have to take the (under construction extension of the) Blue line and transfer to the Green line, or the (under construction extension of the) Expo line and transfer to the (under construction) Crenshaw line.

As long as they upgrade Norwalk/Santa Fe Springs to an Amtrak station. It's currently just a Metrolink station, right? Which means you'd have to take the Green Line from LAX to Norwalk, Metrolink to Fullerton or Anaheim or Oceanside, then Amtrak or maybe the COASTER to San Diego.

[colemonkee]

What's great about that video - other than the sweeping views of the skyline - is that it demonstrates the depth that San Diego's skyline has. The high rise portion of downtown stretches out over a pretty significant area, with plenty of opportunity to fill in and add density down the line.

[HurricaneHugo]

Yeah I feel like a lot of skylines have taller buildings but a lot less depth.

Like they'll have a 700 footer next to like 6 buildings and that's their downtown

[gillynova]

San Jose guy here and I'm jealous of your skyline.

[SDCAL]

SD Union Tribune has very detailed update on 7th / Market Ritz Whole Foods Project:

(Note the same lawsuit also is the reason 7th / Island is a surface lot )

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-ritz-suit-20170718-story.html

Most depressing line from the article:

"Project developer Cisterra Development said it would normally be breaking ground right about now on the full-block hotel and housing complex were it not for the suit filed late last year. It is scheduled to go to trial this October." :shitstorm:

[bgrapes]

-

[The Flying Dutchman]

I really hope they smooth out the concrete balconies from underneath, it looks like crap. Rest is nice though. Thx for pics.

[Streamliner]

Condor to drop San Diego nonstop to Frankfurt (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-condor-nonstop-20170724-story.html)

Condor is dropping its Frankfurt to San Diego nonstop flight later this year. It was only supposed to be seasonal, but stopping after one season is somewhat unexpected. However, perhaps the fact that Lufthansa is now doing a 5x weekly non-seasonal flight is the reason. In which case, this could actually be good news for SD, as Lufthansa is a more serious airline that focuses more on business passengers rather than seasonal tourists. Hopefully these flights last longer. Lufthansa, British Airways, and JAL are great international airlines to have landing here.

The U-T reported this today, and quoted an airport official as saying they only found out about Condor's departure yesterday. But I found an article from June mentioning it:

http://www.fvw.com/airlines-condor-to-drop-munich-long-haul-flights-as-air-berlin-downscales-tegel-hub/393/174567/11245

[Derek]

Not a big loss, Condor is essentially Lufthansa's low cost brand and they're still retaining service to FRA.

[HurricaneHugo]

But I only fly on low budget airlines! :(

[The Flying Dutchman]

Happy Hump Day friends, here's some midweek news re: Mission Valley development to get you by. Article has lots of details:

http://missionvalleynews.com/development-still-booming-mission-valley/

Alexan
284 units
http://missionvalleynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/web-MAIN-Alexan.jpg

Witt Mission Valley
267 units (design tba later this month)

Millenium Mission Valley
305 units
http://missionvalleynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Millenium-Mision-Valley1webtop.jpg

Town & Country
804 units
http://missionvalleynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/web-Town-Country.jpg

Friar's Road
319 units
http://missionvalleynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/web-Fashion-Valley.jpg

Cerullo Legacy Int'l
Religious structure
http://missionvalleynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/web-legacy-center.jpg

[Streamliner]

Great Mission Valley updates. That Town & Country looks good, those parking lots really need to go. Alexan is very attractive.

The NewSchool site in East Village is going to be redeveloped in the next five years or so. No idea yet what will replace it or where exactly the school will go; they want to keep it downtown.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-newschoolblock-20170726-story.html

[embora]

I've noticed that a couple of prerequisites for the 11th and Broadway appear to have occurred: The housing on 11th (between E Street and Broadway) appears to have been vacated, as it has been dark the past few times I've passed it. Also, the parking lot on 11th & Broadway appears to have been closed down. There were conspicuously no cars in it tonight.

[bgrapes]

-

[superfishy]

I noticed a crane go up on 6th ave in between E and F streets. Right next to the Andaz hotel. Anyone know whats going up there?

[tyleraf]

That is the Fairfield Inn by Marriott.
https://sandiego.urbdezine.com/2014/04/08/fairfield-inn-to-provide-real-infill-in-downtown-san-diego/

[mhays]

The 10 Most Difficult Airports for Pilots in the U.S.
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/articles/professional-articles/the-10-most-difficult-airports-to-land-in-the-u-s.html

SAN #9, right behind LaGuardia at #7.

I have a few questions as a non-resident:

1. Will the Navy air base on Coronado always be off the table? What about some sort of shared use? (I realize this is a massive and important base, just asking.)

2. What about landfill at the existing airport? In theory this could extend the existing runway west. Maybe a second shorter runway for small planes could be added to the south at the marina location, easing pressure on the main runway (guessing no potential for a major runway here due to added Downtown interference; and even the small one would have massive ecological impacts).

3. Is the 500' limit tiered or gradual, or just a flat limit? It should be very different at one end of Downtown vs. the other. Often these things work in geometric planes...a certain angle from the main flightpath.

That's a hell of a video BTW chris.

[SDCAL]

I have a few questions as a non-resident:

1. Will the Navy air base on Coronado always be off the table? What about some sort of shared use? (I realize this is a massive and important base, just asking.)

2. What about landfill at the existing airport? In theory this could extend the existing runway west. Maybe a second shorter runway for small planes could be added to the south at the marina location, easing pressure on the main runway (guessing no potential for a major runway here due to added Downtown interference; and even the small one would have massive ecological impacts).

3. Is the 500' limit tiered or gradual, or just a flat limit? It should be very different at one end of Downtown vs. the other. Often these things work in geometric planes...a certain angle from the main flightpath.

That's a hell of a video BTW chris.

I'm sure others can and will chime in with specifics, but I'll answer very generally and say that this problem is more political than logistical. There's lots of options out there but SD is not a place that thinks outside of the box. There is also a hypersensitive military contingent that gets angry anytime anyone ever suggests THEY should have to relocate because of the changing needs of the city. They even get angry with joint use suggestions. As far as the height limit, it's staggered in the sense that areas right near the airport have lower height limits, but as far as the 500' downtown limit, it's my understanding that's blanket for all of downtown which doesn't make any sense considering the expansion out to East village of the high rises.

[SDfan]

I have a few questions as a non-resident:

1. Will the Navy air base on Coronado always be off the table? What about some sort of shared use? (I realize this is a massive and important base, just asking.)

Not an option. The regional airport authority analyzed all of the military airports for shared use opportunities, and the DOD said no way.

2. What about landfill at the existing airport? In theory this could extend the existing runway west. Maybe a second shorter runway for small planes could be added to the south at the marina location, easing pressure on the main runway (guessing no potential for a major runway here due to added Downtown interference; and even the small one would have massive ecological impacts).

California's environmental laws and coastal protections would prevent this. In the early 2000's, the regional airport authority drafted potential second runway options for SAN - needless to say, no one was happy, and the plans was dropped quickly.

3. Is the 500' limit tiered or gradual, or just a flat limit? It should be very different at one end of Downtown vs. the other. Often these things work in geometric planes...a certain angle from the main flightpath.

It's mostly a flat limit, minus the very northwestern end of downtown in Little Italy where the planes rapidly descend into SAN. You could theoretically build 500' (above sea level) structures lining the 5 all around downtown, up against neighborhoods with 30' limits :haha:

[SDfan]

Funny note on SAN. I had a friend who worked at the airport administration, and he told me they have a series of maps pinpointing the various fault lines that run around the airport. Apparently, there is one map of a fault line that literally stops right before the airport and continues on right after. When he asked about it, the senior staff just shrugged. Lolz.

[spoonman]

The city had a chance to take Miramar NAS when the land was available about 20 years ago. The city crapped the bed and passed on the land. This was an epic blunder. As others have said, there have been studies since then that have recommended to locate the airport to Miramar, but there was strong resistance from the military and NIMBY's (an unlikely but powerful coalition). This is also a contentious issues on this board with lots of disagreement. Nothing will likely happen with the airport for decades as the airport continues to receive upgrades and there is still not enough political will yet for something to happen.

Other ideas for moving the airport have been floated...

1. Floating airport off the coast
2. "Twin-Ports" (airport straddling US/Mexico border; shared runways, 2 sets of terminals - US and Mexico)
3. Desert airport (Borrego area)
4. Camp Pendleton
5. Etc.

Besides the lost opportunity at Miramar, I really wish the "Twin Ports" airport with TIJ would have had more serious consideration. The site is reasonably close to DTSD, transit, freeway networks, inter-modal freight, and would create synergy with San Diego and Tijuana further increasing the route network of the airport. This is no longer an option because the land is no longer available. As it is, we ended up with the Cross Border Terminal, which opens up TIJ as a secondary international airport for travel to Mexico and a handful of other international destinations.

I'm sure everyone has a guess as to what will happen down the road. I believe that eventually (decades) either Miramar or Camp Pendleton will be the new airport site. Until then, SAN will continue to get upgrades to maximize what is there now.

[The Flying Dutchman]

That is the Fairfield Inn by Marriott.
https://sandiego.urbdezine.com/2014/04/08/fairfield-inn-to-provide-real-infill-in-downtown-san-diego/

Still Marriott, but different concept (more boutique-y).

http://jstreethospitality.com/portfolio/moxy-san-diego/
http://jstreethospitality.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/2015-0828_Moxy-Final-Rendering2-e1441040124462.jpg

[mello]

Regarding the airport I'm surprised no one has brought up the expansion of Palomar Airport. For how long has Miami had 2 very busy airports just 25 miles from eachother? 30 years now it seems... In ten years the San Diego metro area will be at the maturity level of the Miami/Ft. Lauderdale/Palm Beach metro was back in 1987 so why wouldn't that kind of setup here be realistic?

I know that Miami/Ft. L has a HUGE cruise ship industry and tons of people from the BOS/WASH corridor with second or third residences in the Metro but an airport in Carlsbad would serve the booming SW Riverside county area and also North County Tourism continues to grow steadily. Some people from the very far south of OC might also use this as an option as well.

I could easily see SAN topping out at around 30 million passengers a year and Palomar Airport which is 30 miles away handling 5 to 10 million eventually (no cargo).

[spoonman]

Regarding the airport I'm surprised no one has brought up the expansion of Palomar Airport. For how long has Miami had 2 very busy airports just 25 miles from eachother? 30 years now it seems... In ten years the San Diego metro area will be at the maturity level of the Miami/Ft. Lauderdale/Palm Beach metro was back in 1987 so why wouldn't that kind of setup here be realistic?

I know that Miami/Ft. L has a HUGE cruise ship industry and tons of people from the BOS/WASH corridor with second or third residences in the Metro but an airport in Carlsbad would serve the booming SW Riverside county area and also North County Tourism continues to grow steadily. Some people from the very far south of OC might also use this as an option as well.

I could easily see SAN topping out at around 30 million passengers a year and Palomar Airport which is 30 miles away handling 5 to 10 million eventually (no cargo).

Good point, Mello. I've actually heard plans to do what you are suggesting should SAN stay in it's current location.

For those that don't know, Carlsbad has been a mini secondary airport until recently when United pulled out of Carlsbad due to retirement of all of the Brasilia aircraft in the fleet. The recent change from the Brasilia to CRJ's made Carlsbad no longer viable for operations due to the short runway. At Carlsbad's height in the 90's and early 2000's, Carlsbad was served by both United and American. As of now, Surf Air is the only "commercial" service at the airport. There are currently plans to expand the length of the runway which would allow commercial service to begin again.

[The Flying Dutchman]

The County just posted a RFSQ (Request for Statement of Qualifications) to develop the old courthouse blocks downtown.

http://www.sandiegocounty.gov/content/sdc/general_services/Real_Estate/RFP/RES_RFSQ_CtHouseCommons.html

[ucsbgaucho]

Good point, Mello. I've actually heard plans to do what you are suggesting should SAN stay in it's current location.

For those that don't know, Carlsbad has been a mini secondary airport until recently when United pulled out of Carlsbad due to retirement of all of the Brasilia aircraft in the fleet. The recent change from the Brasilia to CRJ's made Carlsbad no longer viable for operations due to the short runway. At Carlsbad's height in the 90's and early 2000's, Carlsbad was served by both United and American. As of now, Surf Air is the only "commercial" service at the airport. There are currently plans to expand the length of the runway which would allow commercial service to begin again.

If you think NIMBY's were a problem when Miramar was in play, good luck with anything in Carlsbad. They're probably very lucky that airport has remained as it is now with the tiny commercial operation it is.

[spoonman]

Speak of the devil...albeit this is a no-name airline with connecting service to LAX.

If the runway is extended, no doubt service will again expand to additional airlines and destinations. "The airfield's allure is limited given the length of its runway 6/24 is only 1,500 metres"

Carlsbad, CA set to resume scheduled traffic in late 2Q17
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/55485-carlsbad-ca-set-to-resume-scheduled-traffic-in-late-2q17

[sixonenine]

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-coronadobridgephase2-story.html

So its a bit cheezy but I found this design quite charming for the coronado bridge, what do you guys think?

[Nerv]

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-coronadobridgephase2-story.html

So its a bit cheezy but I found this design quite charming for the coronado bridge, what do you guys think?


As long as they stay close to the original concept I'm happy.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/columnists/logan-jenkins/sd-me-jenkins2017707-story.html

Also very happy that they finally have the funds to move forward with the project. Crossing my fingers they meet their lights on the bridge by 2019.

[Nerv]

I know IDEA is opening soon and Broadstone is under construction with a opening date next year but has the Streetlights project (28 stories) in Makers Corner broken ground yet as it has been listed as doing so? If it hasn't I'm guessing the 2018 opening date for Streetlights is going to prove false.

[sixonenine]

http://www.10news.com/news/san-diegos-lindbergh-field-could-get-transit-center-across-runway


Transit center/trolley station @ Lindbergh Field? YES PLEASE!:nyancat::nyancat::nyancat::nyancat::nyancat::nyancat:

[Derek]

I can't wait for the renderings. That would be huge for SAN.

[HurricaneHugo]

On existing rail across the runway?

So by Washington and Pacific Highway?

[The Flying Dutchman]

It's a 10 year-old plan. I have no idea why 10news "reported" this out of the blue. Google: Intermodal Transit Center San Diego

http://nettstrategies.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/SANDAG_SDCRAA_Workshop_Feb_8_2008.pdf

[spoonman]

I'm pretty sure the near term plan is enhancements to the Washington St. station with plans for a shuttle to the terminals

[Derek]

It's a 10 year-old plan. I have no idea why 10news "reported" this out of the blue. Google: Intermodal Transit Center San Diego

http://nettstrategies.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/SANDAG_SDCRAA_Workshop_Feb_8_2008.pdf


Dang it...

[psychotron]

It's a 10 year-old plan. I have no idea why 10news "reported" this out of the blue. Google: Intermodal Transit Center San Diego

http://nettstrategies.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/SANDAG_SDCRAA_Workshop_Feb_8_2008.pdf

This plan is pretty incredible. Total relocation of both terminals to the north side, additional runway, and an intermodal transit center. This plan is pretty much dead, given the new T2 expansion, new consolidated rental car facility, and plans to rebuild T1. Not to mention that the SD leg of HSR will most liekly be the last to be built, if it ever gets built.

I believe spoonman is correct -- plan is to introduce an airport specific shuttle that runs along a dedicated roadway on the perimeter of the airport to shuttle betweeen Washington St station and the terminals.

[The Flying Dutchman]

The shuttle is really just a shuttle to a parking garage that "conveniently" drops you off 1000 ft. away from the trolley stop. Best part is, you get to walk across Pacific Highway for a final F U.

There is a great bus route (992) that basically loops to all terminals and America Plaza and down Broadway to City College. It honestly baffles me that it barely gets used most of the time.

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7323067,-117.1758577,3a,75y,18.3h,90.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTMw6kdqNR9ARlXQcz2CtHw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
http://www.san.org/Parking-Transportation/Public-Transportation#117819-trolley-service

[Streamliner]

The shuttle is really just a shuttle to a parking garage that "conveniently" drops you off 1000 ft. away from the trolley stop. Best part is, you get to walk across Pacific Highway for a final F U.

There is a great bus route (992) that basically loops to all terminals and America Plaza and down Broadway to City College. It honestly baffles me that it barely gets used most of the time.

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7323067,-117.1758577,3a,75y,18.3h,90.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTMw6kdqNR9ARlXQcz2CtHw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
http://www.san.org/Parking-Transportation/Public-Transportation#117819-trolley-service

I agree. I've used this before and it worked out great! But I had to specifically ask the info kiosk where to find it as it wasn't very well advertised. One would think that MTS and the Airport Authority would want to band together and spend a little bit of money to really emphasize this service. Especially considering all of the "Public Transit to the Airport Sucks" complaints that's always thrown their way. Do a bit of advertising within the airport and in town, maybe rename it to something besides "992 bus".

[The Flying Dutchman]

I agree, a simple branding/paint job would work wonders. Maybe even extend the loop to cover Market St. :cheers:

[IMBY]

Just returned from the San Diego/Tijuana Metro area, it's been over a year.

In the 83 trips I've made down there since 1997, riding the Tijuana Trolley, why isn't there any housing being built at the rail stops en route to San Ysidro? I'd think there'd be a huge demand for it.

Since my last trip 5/16, I couldn't believe what they've done to the Border station, completely destroyed and a new one being built. Just across, 6-10 blocks from the Border, I was pleased to see the 4th 30-story apt./condo tower is almost completed in their New City complex. Love the urban density and looking at the towers from San Ysidro. Am wondering if they're going to add any more towers to that complex. Anyone know?

I don't like the new lengthy exit from TJ to Customs, that approach must be a mile long!:koko: It is easier getting thru Customs, but once you leave Customs, Holy Cow! it's a long, long, long walk back over the Freeway bridge to catch the train in front of McDonald's. I asked the Customs agent why the never ending approach, and complained of it being a senior, and he jokingly said: it's to deter more people from coming to TJ!:uhh:

Just east of the ritzier part of Revolution (Sanborn's/Jail Alai) there's a glass condo tower going up and another one, with a crane, is sprouting up closer to Revolution.

I just wish they'd add more much-needed housing to Centro. The Prez of Mexico made a pledge to stop building housing for the poor on the outskirts of Mexican cities, and build more housing for the poor in the inner cities, but I see no evidence of that in Centro, or the Zona Rio district.

I rode the van to Rosarito via the Carratera Libre and I saw some new housing developments in the valley's, copy-cat American type developments, townhouses/houses all looking alike, and all gated.:slob:

I love the solidity of construction in "Poor Man's San Francisco", in many ways, you could say it's way overbuilt. Even my motel room at the Ville Di Zargosa, you pound on the wall between the unit's, all solid concrete, concrete roofs and floors, all so heavy duty. Even the houses! Would you even need a Fire Department down there?

Love that curved glass tower in downtown San Diego, near the new Intercontinental Hotel under construction, which I'll never stay in, as I don't do hermetically sealed windows. No balcony, or aisle balcony, forget it!!!!

[HurricaneHugo]

Yeah I love seeing Tijuana grow.

At this point it's more likely they'll get a 500+ footer before San Diego does...

[IMBY]

When the tourists got scared off into going there, during the drug wars, along with the passport requirement, TJ had to reinvent itself, become less dependent on tourists, and I think they've done a great job of that.

The Biomed companies in San Diego need some product manufactured, they don't need to go to China or India to make it, they can go right in their "backyard" to have it made. Now over 10,000 call centers in TJ, competing with India/Philippines, and there's medical tourism.

Yes, wouldn't it be an ego deflator if TJ puts up a tower higher than anything in San Diego!

The congestion, I've noticed, gets worse every day over there, and I see they now have 2 glass bus shelters constructed on Revolution, for Rapid Bus Transit I believe.

I try so hard to like San Diego, but it didn't help that I went to see a museum in Balboa Park, lit up a cigarette, and I was told No Smoking in the entirety of Balboa Park!:shrug:

Back to TJ!:runaway:

[ArquitectoMontenegro]

IMBY,

You asked about the NEW CITY residential project right next to the San Ysidro Border--I am pretty sure they're total number of residential towers will be 5 (the 4th is opening soon).

The design of those towers isn't all that great, but what excites me is the adjacent New City Medical Plaza that is under construction. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CblsbxfVIAA_tA1.jpg

As for the crane on Revolucion, I think that's this project (It's the project halfway down the Tijuana skycrapercity thread, follow the link): http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=206951&page=456

And in case you were not aware that Tijuana had a construction forum such as this San Diego Boom Rundown forum, you're welcome!

[HurricaneHugo]

When the tourists got scared off into going there, during the drug wars...

That's still going on in TJ...

400 homicides in 4 months in 2017

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/tijuana-homicides-soar-to-411-so-far-in-2017/

[The Flying Dutchman]

Don't feed trolls please.

[Streamliner]

I like the idea of streamlining these :)

Neighborhoods could become more lively, colorful under proposed San Diego law
David Garrick
Union-Tribune
August 21, 2017

San Diego might soon see an explosion of painted murals, pedestrian plazas, decorative lighting and other upgrades designed to enhance the empty spaces in commercial districts and residential neighborhoods across the city.

Following the lead of Los Angeles and San Francisco, San Diego officials are proposing a new city “placemaking” ordinance to streamline the process for approving such upgrades and sharply reduce the permitting costs.

Those upgrades are called placemaking because they turn an empty lot or underutilized property into a notable “place,” by enhancing the pedestrian experience and boosting civic connections with gathering spots.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-public-art-20170821-story.html

[IMBY]

IMBY,

You asked about the NEW CITY residential project right next to the San Ysidro Border--I am pretty sure they're total number of residential towers will be 5 (the 4th is opening soon).

The design of those towers isn't all that great, but what excites me is the adjacent New City Medical Plaza that is under construction. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CblsbxfVIAA_tA1.jpg

As for the crane on Revolucion, I think that's this project (It's the project halfway down the Tijuana skycrapercity thread, follow the link): http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=206951&page=456

And in case you were not aware that Tijuana had a construction forum such as this San Diego Boom Rundown forum, you're welcome!

Thanks for uploading that! Now I know what's going up there!

Yes, the New City towers aren't that exciting to look at, but they're still a welcome addition. Good to hear there'll be a 5th tower to add to the density.

Rather strange location for that density, but maybe not. Live there, and merely walk to the Border.

Curious as to who the buyers are.

[SacTownAndy]

Hey guys, I'm sure I'm late to the boat on this but I used to check the interactive map on the ccdc website every now and then to catch up on DTSD projects. I can't seem to find that map anymore on their website. Anyone know if it's gone for good? Or am I just missing something?

[SDfan]

Hey guys, I'm sure I'm late to the boat on this but I used to check the interactive map on the ccdc website every now and then to catch up on DTSD projects. I can't seem to find that map anymore on their website. Anyone know if it's gone for good? Or am I just missing something?

The map is gone. There is a project status log you can access here:

http://civicsd.com/departments/planning/downtown-project-status-log/

San Diego UrbDeZine has their own well-kept map here:

https://sandiego.urbdezine.com/development-map/

[SacTownAndy]

The map is gone. There is a project status log you can access here:

http://civicsd.com/departments/planning/downtown-project-status-log/

San Diego UrbDeZine has their own well-kept map here:

https://sandiego.urbdezine.com/development-map/

Thank you! :tup:

[HurricaneHugo]

So in the height limits thread I mentioned that we have a 60 ft limit on the coast and that if we didn't have it, we'd be Miami (tons of condo towers on the beach)

I'm wondering if...

A) That's true or not
B) That's good or not
C) If that would drive prices down or up

[SDfan]

So in the height limits thread I mentioned that we have a 60 ft limit on the coast and that if we didn't have it, we'd be Miami (tons of condo towers on the beach)

I'm wondering if...

A) That's true or not
B) That's good or not
C) If that would drive prices down or up

A) Not true. Our coastal height limit is 30', not 60'
B) Arguable. NIMBYs would say good (views and "community character" maintained). YIMBYs would say bad (exclusionary, cost driver)
C) Arguable-ish. Florida allows high-rises on their coast, and have looser regulations in general. Their housing costs are half of ours. Based on basic of supply and demand rules, if you restrict supply by limiting heights, densities, etc., and there is greater and greater demand, prices will only go up. CA is just starting to realize this now in the midst of the current housing crisis. Some would argue against this, but those are usually the same NIMBY folks who fear anything over two stories.

[HurricaneHugo]

California Supreme Court says that citizen initiative tax increases only need 50%, not 67%

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-initiative-ruling-20170828-story.html

A Charger Stadium in MV would have gotten that...

[ArquitectoMontenegro]

California Supreme Court says that citizen initiative tax increases only need 50%, not 67%

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-initiative-ruling-20170828-story.html

A Charger Stadium in MV would have gotten that...

Probably, but Dean Spanos never wanted Mission Valley. Two very fine Mission Valley proposals were presented to him and and he just looked the other way and whined that he wanted a downtown stadium. He knew that the downtown/East Village stadium plan was not really feasible but he pushed hard on the East Village site, knowing it would never happen but it provided him an excuse for rejecting any Mission Valley proposal.

I believe he wanted to move the Chargers to LA the entire time and lied through his teeth every time he said he wanted the Chargers to stay in San Diego. His "Fight for LA" comment revealed his true intentions.

[HurricaneHugo]

Possible new downtown arena to be unveiled tomorrow by Alibaba founder?

To be used for an indoor lacrosse team and to try to lure an NHL team

Http://www.mighty1090.com/episode/dan-sileo-a-new-arena-lacrosse-team-and-possible-nba-team-in-san-diego/

[Streamliner]

Possible new downtown arena to be unveiled tomorrow by Alibaba founder?

To be used for an indoor lacrosse team and to try to lure an NHL team

Http://www.mighty1090.com/episode/dan-sileo-a-new-arena-lacrosse-team-and-possible-nba-team-in-san-diego/

I'm seeing that as an NBA team, which would be awesome! Interesting to see some East Asian investment, or the potential of it at least, in San Diego.

[ArquitectoMontenegro]

Possible new downtown arena to be unveiled tomorrow by Alibaba founder?

To be used for an indoor lacrosse team and to try to lure an NHL team

Http://www.mighty1090.com/episode/dan-sileo-a-new-arena-lacrosse-team-and-possible-nba-team-in-san-diego/

That would be pretty awesome, but East Village doesn't want stadiums or arenas, it wants schools or office space to attract better paying jobs as opposed to service jobs.

At least the footprint would be smaller than the horrid Convadium, and it would attract more development, but they're going to have a hard time winning over local support.

I wonder if they sold that vacant lot behind the MTS building (technically Barrio Logan) or are they still trying to turn tailgate park lot into a stadium? I guess we'll know tomorrow.

https://goo.gl/images/SwEaO9

[IconRPCV]

An arena in PETCO's parking lot would be great, it could hopefully bring us a pro team to replace the chargers and be easily tied into the convention center to help with mega conventions, like COMICON.

[Xavier Cage]

Here is some more info from the twitter account of AP writer Bernie Wilson.

@berniewilson https://twitter.com/berniewilson

SD pro indoor lacrosse release set to drop Wed a.m. Most details under embargo, but owner will be Joe Tsai of Alibaba Group ...

which is not to be confused with Ali Baba Restaurant in El Cajon. Tsai is worth $8.9 billion. Lives in Hong Kong & owns house in La Jolla.

Peeps at City Hall are aware that Tsai wants to build an arena in East Village, with hopes of attracting an NBA squad.

Of course, getting anything big done in San Diego remains a pipe dream, so we'll see about that there arena & NBA ballsquad.

Oh, and if Joe Tsai does eventually build an arena in East Village, it's believed he'd do so with private money. Let. that. sink. in.

[Nerv]

California Supreme Court says that citizen initiative tax increases only need 50%, not 67%

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-initiative-ruling-20170828-story.html

A Charger Stadium in MV would have gotten that...

Yea! Now things like the convention center expansion should pass. The 2/3 passage was always a joke since even the most well intended projects couldn't pass. Coming from our own Supreme Court should also silence most challengers who like the old 2/3 rule. The majority vote should always be the standard in voting.