SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[HurricaneHugo]

Well it's just a render some architect made on his own.

I just hope they can take some elements and add it to the actual design.

[eburress]

^^^

See those structures are stunning and bold, not the crap rendered in those pictures. This make believe stadium looks similar to a volcano. It's exactly like a volcano and a radioactive power plant got together tried their best and had a baby. Maybe that will become a fun little moniker if it's built, the Bolt-cano. Makes me blow chunks!!!!:yuck: I being real frank, in real life that thing wouldn't even have half the appeal it seems to have in those pictures. Please forgive me if I come off as ignorant and annoying to the people who just simply admire this hideous atrocity, for I am still a novice Jr. in practice architect.

It's annoying that you state your subjective opinion as objective fact.

[OneMetropolis]

It's annoying that you state your subjective opinion as objective fact.

OK than I won't do that anymore. You live and learn right? LOL:haha:

[brantw]

The pedestrian bridge is now open as of 8:00 am this morning! :banana:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5211/5538037772_df314786de_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5299/5537459175_40731ddfe3_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5180/5537458317_d4ea36a18a_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5217/5537458211_2966d374df_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5293/5538036626_32c7a19800_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5292/5538036514_f6129cec6c_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5177/5537457945_f6d6613571_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5260/5537457881_ebaca1c5c5_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5135/5537456839_0090e5c3ef_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5219/5538035216_efa47636e3_b.jpg

[Lipani]

It's about f***ing time.

[brantw]

It's about f***ing time.

No kidding! I also learned today that the pedestrian bridge is one of the longest self-anchored pedestrian suspension bridges in the world. I don't have a source, but that's what they were saying.

[northbay]

beautiful bridge!

No kidding! I also learned today that the pedestrian bridge is one of the longest self-anchored pedestrian suspension bridges in the world. I don't have a source, but that's what they were saying.

the new bay bridge east span will soon take that title!

[Derek]

Well, it's ugly. :jester:

[NOPA]

Don't h8 on our bridges

[Derek]

No, not the East Bay bridge. The pedestrian bridge. :P

[HurricaneHugo]

The architects who made those renders of the Chargers stadiums have released the whole thing.

I found this map interesting.

http://cdn.archdaily.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/1300401645-06-green-spaces-1000x647.jpg

About time we put lids on the 5!

I don't feel like posting all the pictures so Ima just link you to SC.com lol

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1139353&page=5

[brantw]

^^I think it's funny that map shows "existing parks" going up Park Blvd., which is only a bit of grass/land that is only about 4 feet wide.

[HurricaneHugo]

Panama Expo 2015?

http://wwww.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/mar/23/expo-2015-centennial-could-top-comic-con/

"When thinking about celebrating San Diego's 1915 Panama-California Exposition in Balboa Park, San Diego City Councilman Todd Gloria said he was worried.

"My concern for 2015 was there would just be a Costco sheetcake in the middle of the plaza and that would be it," said Gloria, whose district includes the park.

Instead, the council's Natural Resources and Culture Committee was promised something infinitely grander Wednesday -- a year-round series of events and celebrations that would dwarf even that monstrous San Diego institution, Comic-Con."

[bmfarley]

^^I think it's funny that map shows "existing parks" going up Park Blvd., which is only a bit of grass/land that is only about 4 feet wide.

That was the first thing I saw and agree. It is a narrow street with Trolley tracks. I suppose folks really do think the Trolley is so nice that it is comparable to a park.

[eburress]

I was only half listening, but according to the news, it sounded like the city was going to funnel money away from the downtown library to pay teacher salaries, saving 300 jobs. Did I hear that correctly? Exciting news. I'm not a huge library proponent, but at least it was an investment in the city's future. I'm glad the teachers will have jobs, but this seems like a very short-sighted move in that it doesn't address the root problem (how do we make more money so we can pay for teacher jobs?).

[kpexpress]

I ran into the mayor today at Grab n Go.

[HurricaneHugo]

I ran into the mayor today at Grab n Go.

Did you tell him how he needs to fix our potholes?!

[Lipani]

^ I'd tell him to deport the hobos. Holy crap, have they been aggresive this year. Especially the jackasses along 5th Avenue.

[HurricaneHugo]

We got a letter from the city telling us that they're going to build a soundwall for the 805 behind our house. The reason is for adding express lanes to the 805 between I-15 and Palomar Street.

Googled it:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist11/facts/805South_feb2011.pdf

I'm not sure if they're adding lanes or just converting the middle ones to express lanes

[spoonman]

We got a letter from the city telling us that they're going to build a soundwall for the 805 behind our house. The reason is for adding express lanes to the 805 between I-15 and Palomar Street.

Googled it:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist11/facts/805South_feb2011.pdf

I'm not sure if they're adding lanes or just converting the middle ones to express lanes

They are going to begin building one lane in each direction in 2012, and add in direct carpool access exits. Then in 2020 they will add a second carpool lane in each direction.

Here's a link to more info. Looks like much of the 805 will be under construction for the forseeable future. There is a similar project beginning on the 805 near Sorrento Valley.
http://www.keepsandiegomoving.com/I-805-Corridor/I-805-south-segment.aspx

[HurricaneHugo]

Wow that's very detailed!

Wait a minute, are they getting rid of the 43rd st bridge?!! (fig 1.8, 2.6.6)

I'm completely against this now!!!

Although it does make sense to finally link up 43rd st to 47th st and that huge area is a waste of space...but still!

And that BRT line would make a very nice Trolley line!

[SDfan]

I agree, I would miss the bridge as well. :(

[staplesla]

The California Coastal Commission is set to revote Wednesday on the long-awaited start to carrying out the North Embarcadero Visionary Plan.

If approved by the 12-member body, construction could begin by year's end and be completed in 2013. The commission tied last year on an earlier version, prompting revisions that will be before it at its meeting in Santa Barbara.

The $29.6 million first phase would beautify San Diego's "front porch" along Harbor Drive between B Street and Navy Piers and Broadway west from Pacific Highway.

With funding from downtown redevelopment property taxes, the San Diego Unified Port District has been overseeing the approval process, aided by the city and the Centre City Development Corp., the city's downtown redevelopment arm.

The money had been jeopardized by Gov. Jerry Brown's proposal to end redevelopment efforts as a way to close the state's budget deficit, but the city and port acted to secure the money just in case.

"I think the port has been listening to the community and working with the community in a more effective way and bringing them a better project than they have seen in the past -- one with more public space and more public support," said Port Chairman Scott Peters, a former City Councilman.

Included in the improvements will be groves of jacarandas, ticketing and food pavilions, a public restroom, a wider esplanade at the water's edge and a new public park or plaza in the Lane Field hotel development at the northeast corner of Harbor and Broadway. Lane Field developers and the Unite Here hotel labor group reached an agreement that secured their support for the improvements.

Ian Trowbridge, cochairman of the Navy Broadway Complex Coalition that opposed last year's effort, said the new version has his group's support.

"I'd be shocked if this were turned down," Trowbridge said.

However, several opponents and two coastal commissioners appealed the port's plan and a lawyer for one of the appellants urged the commission to vote it down again until it approves a port master plan (PMP) amendment.

"The port is currently in the process of revising its PMP, so no permit should be approved that might prejudice that process," said Douglas P. Carstens, representing a group called Save Everyone's Access and appellant Scott Andrews.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/apr/11/coastal-commission-vote-embarcadero-improvements/

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/01/11/nevp_image_4_8.2010_t593.png?f53c1bb70f629018cec0bd6246c82dae770b93ac

[brantw]

From today:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5303/5617403218_2c6ab1a886_o.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5222/5616817559_03f2ec40ce_o.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5307/5616817211_38ac99cbab_o.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5187/5617403434_53fb52a64b_o.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5304/5617402918_c009bcf669_o.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5188/5617402768_fc838a52a1_o.jpg

[brantw]

Here's an older video of the Embarcadero plan which was OK'd today by the Coastal Commission:

8314493

[mongoXZ]

Time to resurrect this thread!!:whip:

Chargers stadium idea expanding to include entertainment, convention complex

City News Service
Proposals for a new home for the San Diego Chargers are expanding to include an entertainment and convention center complex in the downtown area, the team’s point man for stadium development said Monday.
Talk about building something more than a stand-alone stadium has picked up steam in recent weeks, Mark Fabiani told sports talk hosts Scott Kaplan and Billy Ray Smith on XX Sports Radio 1090.
“That’s an idea that’s gaining some traction,” Fabiani said. “I think it’s an idea that’s starting to make a lot of sense to people.”
Some developers are interested, he said. Whether the idea gains support should be known in a few weeks, Fabiani said.

http://www.lajollalight.com/2011/04/25/chargers-stadium-idea-expanding-to-include-entertainment-convention-complex/

[ucsbgaucho]

Whatever gets built down there has to be bigger than San Diego has thought in the past. Petco was a pretty good start, but this Chargers stadium has some major potential and those in charge have to think big. Football stadiums in Houston and Indy are hosting Final Fours as well as Super Bowls... San Diego needs to build a stadium that a) far exceeds the minimum requirements for a Super Bowl return, b) is acoustically treated to raise crowd volume like Seattle is, c) has some sort of retractable roof so they could be considered to host "indoor" events like a convention or Final Four. I think they need to examine the feasability of an "LA Live" style complex with a basketball/hockey arena tied in, that could host an NBA or NHL team down the road, so we can get rid of the Sports Arena. San Diego always seems to do the bare minimum with things like this, but here's a chance to do something amazing.

[brantw]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5264/5612321486_ae10e2ac3f_o.jpg

Candace Van Assche (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanassche/)

[HurricaneHugo]

Finally a properly sized one, and an amazing one at that!

[HurricaneHugo]

So what exactly is the plan for Balboa Park?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/apr/28/national-trust-warns-city-plans-balboa-park/

[mello]

[QUOTE=ucsbgaucho;5257282]Whatever gets built down there has to be bigger than San Diego has thought in the past. San Diego always seems to do the bare minimum with things like this, but here's a chance to do something amazing.[/QUOTE

]:cheers:
Well said Gaucho. SD definitely needs to step its game up on this one. A new arena is needed so badly. When big time concerts come here they need to have a venue that is up to 21st century standards. It must be embarrassing to have U2 come play in that dump. They must walk in and think "What a sh*thole venue SD has". Hell even Louisville has a nice new arena.

With regards to the pedestrian bridge, it is very underwhelming. I have been living in Tbilisi for just a week now and this 2nd world country has just finished a far more impressive pedestrian bridge over their river then "America's finest City". :rolleyes:

[HurricaneHugo]

Picture of Tbilisi bridge?

Also it looks like the Navy Complex is going to start gaining traction.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/may/05/manchester-moving-forward-pacific-gateway-complex-/

[ElDuderino]

Picture of Tbilisi bridge?


I believe he means this one

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2122/bridgetbilisi.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/196/bridgetbilisi.jpg/)

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://blog.pharoscontrols.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/bridge_tbilisi.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pharoscontrols.com/blog/2010/08/24/bridge-of-peace-tbilisi/&usg=__VkHTniTLcy824v-tIeN_eSTZC98=&h=320&w=690&sz=59&hl=en&start=41&sig2=bTv32dFnZ6mEM6p1wrAqdw&zoom=1&tbnid=TUU3fY2k280tUM:&tbnh=112&tbnw=241&ei=x2jETcXNPIymsQPy2KzrAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3DTbilisi%2Bpedestrian%2Bbridge%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1194%26bih%3D1395%26tbm%3Disch0%2C1710&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=823&vpy=418&dur=22&hovh=153&hovw=330&tx=250&ty=122&page=2&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:22,s:41&biw=1194&bih=1395

[psychotron]

I believe he means this one

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2122/bridgetbilisi.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/196/bridgetbilisi.jpg/)

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://blog.pharoscontrols.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/bridge_tbilisi.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pharoscontrols.com/blog/2010/08/24/bridge-of-peace-tbilisi/&usg=__VkHTniTLcy824v-tIeN_eSTZC98=&h=320&w=690&sz=59&hl=en&start=41&sig2=bTv32dFnZ6mEM6p1wrAqdw&zoom=1&tbnid=TUU3fY2k280tUM:&tbnh=112&tbnw=241&ei=x2jETcXNPIymsQPy2KzrAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3DTbilisi%2Bpedestrian%2Bbridge%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1194%26bih%3D1395%26tbm%3Disch0%2C1710&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=823&vpy=418&dur=22&hovh=153&hovw=330&tx=250&ty=122&page=2&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:22,s:41&biw=1194&bih=1395
As awesome as that bridge is, it is infinitely more impressive at night!

http://youtu.be/5oNwUTKfuxw

[psychotron]

So what exactly is the plan for Balboa Park?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/apr/28/national-trust-warns-city-plans-balboa-park/
I like the impetus behind the Jacobs plan, but I hate its execution. The bypass bridge is an eyesore and it won't alleviate any traffic issues on Cabrillo bridge. They should just close down the entire bridge to vehicles and make it pedestrian only. I think part of the problem is the mentality that Cabrillo bridge isn't really a part of Balboa park, but just a bridge to lead into it. The bridge and Plaza de Panama should be considered one entity. The park manages during December Nights when it closes the bridge down. SD arguably has the country's best weather, take advantage of it! Walking a little bit extra is ok!

[psychotron]

Whatever gets built down there has to be bigger than San Diego has thought in the past....San Diego always seems to do the bare minimum with things like this, but here's a chance to do something amazing.

AMEN. :cheers:

[OneMetropolis]

some building under construction near father Joe

file:///C:/Users/Owner/Desktop/Image05062011180051.jpg

[HurricaneHugo]

I like the impetus behind the Jacobs plan, but I hate its execution. The bypass bridge is an eyesore and it won't alleviate any traffic issues on Cabrillo bridge. They should just close down the entire bridge to vehicles and make it pedestrian only. I think part of the problem is the mentality that Cabrillo bridge isn't really a part of Balboa park, but just a bridge to lead into it. The bridge and Plaza de Panama should be considered one entity. The park manages during December Nights when it closes the bridge down. SD arguably has the country's best weather, take advantage of it! Walking a little bit extra is ok!

Bypass bridge?

[HurricaneHugo]

I believe he means this one

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2122/bridgetbilisi.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/196/bridgetbilisi.jpg/)

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://blog.pharoscontrols.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/bridge_tbilisi.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pharoscontrols.com/blog/2010/08/24/bridge-of-peace-tbilisi/&usg=__VkHTniTLcy824v-tIeN_eSTZC98=&h=320&w=690&sz=59&hl=en&start=41&sig2=bTv32dFnZ6mEM6p1wrAqdw&zoom=1&tbnid=TUU3fY2k280tUM:&tbnh=112&tbnw=241&ei=x2jETcXNPIymsQPy2KzrAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3DTbilisi%2Bpedestrian%2Bbridge%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1194%26bih%3D1395%26tbm%3Disch0%2C1710&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=823&vpy=418&dur=22&hovh=153&hovw=330&tx=250&ty=122&page=2&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:22,s:41&biw=1194&bih=1395

wow that's tacky yuck

[Derek]

Picture of Tbilisi bridge?

Also it looks like the Navy Complex is going to start gaining traction.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/may/05/manchester-moving-forward-pacific-gateway-complex-/

Sweet! Only 4 more years...maybe...:rolleyes:

[Streamliner]

A little off topic, but did anybody see the Green Lantern trailer? At :30 there's a shot of the San Diego skyline that makes it look really dense (despite the ominous death-clouds from space or whatever that is). Made me do a double take when i saw it.

Youtube link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-GO9fo9DtM

[Illithid Dude]

A little off topic, but did anybody see the Green Lantern trailer? At :30 there's a shot of the San Diego skyline that makes it look really dense (despite the ominous death-clouds from space or whatever that is). Made me do a double take when i saw it.

Youtube link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-GO9fo9DtM

Aha! So I was right! I was thinking that it was San Diego, but I wasn't sure. Now I know.

[HurricaneHugo]

Yay we're going to get destroyed. >_<

[HurricaneHugo]

In other news San Diego is SCs banner of the day.

http://xl.skyscrapercity.com/images/headers/2011/05/09.jpg

Go give it 5 stars!

[Lipani]

Yay we're going to get destroyed. >_<

Woohoo! We get to join LA and NYC in thousands of other movies now. :haha:

[kpexpress]

Today CCAC Pre Design Sub Committee reviewed three projects.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/5fatcity2-1.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/4fatcity-1.jpg
Fat City (Jon Segal)

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/315thislandcopy.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/215thislandcopy.jpg
15th and Island (Pinnacle)

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/1atmospherecopy.jpg
Atmosphere (JDWA)

[mongoXZ]

good to see some of these long forgotten proposals revived. 15 & Island looks great!

[SDfan]

I agree with the pdf docket, the red color will wear quickly. Other then that, I like the towers. They would be the anchors of the far east village. At least until other developments come to fruition.

And its nice to see the density of the project go up. From 600, to 900+ units, that's pretty cool.

The phased aspect of the project might also be a concern, what if they never get to building the north tower after the south tower is built? Uh-oh...

As for the other projects, they are decent.

[SDfan]

There was also a design review for Bosa's next endeavor at Kettner and Ash.

http://www.ccdc.com/images/stories/downloads/meetings-and-events/event-calendar/2011/May_2011_REC_Item_7_Kettner_and_Ash.pdf

[psychotron]

The color schemes on Pinnacle are interesting. Like SDfan, I'm not sure on the longevity of those colors remaining fresh. I think all the developments look good. I really like Bosa's next concept for Kettner & Ash. Lots of ground level retail and the roof is unique and exciting. Let's hope it gets the green light.

[kpexpress]

I'm not a big fan of the repetitive nature of the balconies. The renderings are accurate, that yellow is not that yellow and the red will fade fast to look like the south tower. I'm not a fan of them being the same height, and the orientation is weak. They could learn a lot from analyzing Harbor Club.

[HurricaneHugo]

How tall are they?

And not everything can be blue but eh

Also is the other project really called Fat City lol

Kettner and Ash needs to be taller!

[SDfan]

How tall are they?

And not everything can be blue but eh

Also is the other project really called Fat City lol

Kettner and Ash needs to be taller!

479' tall a piece.

One more blue scheme tower = yawn.

Yes, much to our dismay.

I would agree, but at this point with the skyline plateauing, I don't mind. Plus its boxy like an office tower, and since that's not going to happen any time soon, I'll take what we can get! :)

[laguna]

Oh Boy!
Another eyesore from the King of Cheap. When you make your way around Little Italy and East Village and happen upon a non-descript stucco 3-4 story building with lots of cinder block, cheap laminate front doors, cheap window systems-you really dont need the little brass plaque on the wall with Jonathans name to tell you that he designed it.

If you want a laugh, look at his masterpiece on the corner of Kettner and Beech (N. E). Rusty metal and all.

I have a friend that lives in his Date and India monstrosity. What a junky, cheap piece of crap.

I swear that he pays off the city and Little Italy Assoc. They kiss his butt. He has numerous code violations that never get fixed. For example look at the steps on any of the bulding fronts and tell me they are within code.

[kpexpress]

479' tall a piece.

One more blue scheme tower = yawn.

Yes, much to our dismay.

I would agree, but at this point with the skyline plateauing, I don't mind. Plus its boxy like an office tower, and since that's not going to happen any time soon, I'll take what we can get! :)

The plans we reviewed showed both towers (15th and Island) topping off at 519' each.

[HurricaneHugo]

The plans we reviewed showed both towers (15th and Island) topping off at 519' each.

Don't play with my emotions like that...

[SDfan]

The plans we reviewed showed both towers (15th and Island) topping off at 519' each.

Above sea level? Or including sea level?

[SDfan]

I'm sorry, but even if they are 519' including sea level, isn't that against the law? I thought all structures downtown had to be below 500' minus sea level, thus never at 500'?

As Hurricane said, don't play with my emotions!!

[SDfan]

http://www.ccdc.com/images/stories/downloads/meetings-and-events/event-calendar/2011/May_2011_REC_Item_8_15th_and_Island.pdf

On the first page of the summary it says "consisting of two 45-story (approximately 479 foot tall) residential mixed use towers"

[kpexpress]

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/TOPOFF.jpg

[kpexpress]

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/optimusprime.jpg

OPTIMUS PRIME!!!

[SD_Phil]

Well, here's to hoping they break the law.

Also, design-wise, those buildings are SO San Diego.

[Leo the Dog]

^ I like it!

[SDfan]

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/TOPOFF.jpg

I'm so confused...

[bmfarley]

I'm so confused...It has been a while since I reviewed the applicable language, BUT, I believe the southeastern portion of downtown is outside the 500-foot cap.

Also, the 500-foot cap is not a cast in stone cap. Basically, as I recall, the FAA provides criteria or guidelines for not penetrating the flight-zone. They don't say "no" to a development, but, retain the right/guidelines for certain aircraft landings/takeoffs. In their perspective, if they think there are certain criteria or guidelines being violated, then they'd re-look at the aircraft that would be permitted to land/take-off... and perhaps under certain weather related conditions.

I also believe that the General Plan, or Downtown Plan, indicates that the flight-zone should not be penetrated due to the implications to flight restrictions.

So, FAA would re-evaluate permissible use of Lindbergh, or, convey implications of this or that development, but they would not say 'no'.

Anyone is free to corrrect me... I am going from memory.

[SDfan]

So is this building 519' at ground level or sea level?

It has been a while since I reviewed the applicable language, BUT, I believe the southeastern portion of downtown is outside the 500-foot cap.

Also, the 500-foot cap is not a cast in stone cap. Basically, as I recall, the FAA provides criteria or guidelines for not penetrating the flight-zone. They don't say "no" to a development, but, retain the right/guidelines for certain aircraft landings/takeoffs. In their perspective, if they think there are certain criteria or guidelines being violated, then they'd re-look at the aircraft that would be permitted to land/take-off... and perhaps under certain weather related conditions.

I also believe that the General Plan, or Downtown Plan, indicates that the flight-zone should not be penetrated due to the implications to flight restrictions.

So, FAA would re-evaluate permissible use of Lindbergh, or, convey implications of this or that development, but they would not say 'no'.

Anyone is free to corrrect me... I am going from memory.

If that's the case, and this block is outside the 500' cap, then why wouldn't the developer push the envelope to 550' or 600'? I mean 19' is a start, but come on, they could do better.

[tyleraf]

So is this building 519' at ground level or sea level?



If that's the case, and this block is outside the 500' cap, then why wouldn't the developer push the envelope to 550' or 600'? I mean 19' is a start, but come on, they could do better.

Still even 519' is progress and may open new doors for future taller buildings.

[llamaorama]

I love it.

Sure in most cities it would be ugly, but it is totally appropriate for a sunny, colorful, warm place like San Diego.

I mean, the ocean is a bright blue, the mountains are yellow and green, and the roofs of the houses are orange. Why can't the skyline have saturated colors?

[HurricaneHugo]

If that's really 519', then send them back to the drawing board!

If they're going to be our new tallest then they better be almost as good as OAP!

[HurricaneHugo]

Update on the Courthouse

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/226227_10100303765972384_3317344_54546822_6045013_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/226792_10100303766890544_3317344_54546829_5492508_n.jpg

Is that all it's rising? :(

[psychotron]

If those pics are recent, that looks like it's it: 16 stories/101.5m/333ft. They just topped out this week.

[SDfan]

^^Really? I think it has a couple more to go before it reaches the 16 max point.

[eburress]

It has been a while since I reviewed the applicable language, BUT, I believe the southeastern portion of downtown is outside the 500-foot cap.

Also, the 500-foot cap is not a cast in stone cap. Basically, as I recall, the FAA provides criteria or guidelines for not penetrating the flight-zone. They don't say "no" to a development, but, retain the right/guidelines for certain aircraft landings/takeoffs. In their perspective, if they think there are certain criteria or guidelines being violated, then they'd re-look at the aircraft that would be permitted to land/take-off... and perhaps under certain weather related conditions.

I also believe that the General Plan, or Downtown Plan, indicates that the flight-zone should not be penetrated due to the implications to flight restrictions.

So, FAA would re-evaluate permissible use of Lindbergh, or, convey implications of this or that development, but they would not say 'no'.

Anyone is free to corrrect me... I am going from memory.

I don't honestly know the rules or regulations, but wasn't it the FAA that forced that developer to lop the top few floors off of the tower they were building near Montgomery Field a few years ago?

[dl3000]

I think that building was penetrating a different kind of airspace since it was closer to the airfield. I think bmfarley is correct but I am also going by memory. If they breach the 500' cieling, then that will simply affect airplane operations at Lindbergh. I am assuming this means that the runway displacement threshold expands.

[202_Cyclist]

I don't honestly know the rules or regulations, but wasn't it the FAA that forced that developer to lop the top few floors off of the tower they were building near Montgomery Field a few years ago?


Correct-- I'll find the regulations tomorrow but the FAA has complete sovereignty over the navigable airspace and a building is a hazard, FAA can limit its height. Here in the DC area, two buildings in Rosslyn, VA, had to get FAA approval. The buildings are 380-400 ft and are near the flight path to Reagan-National.

Is office tower's height a hazard?
Sunroad told to halt work on building near city's Montgomery Field

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20061105/news_1n5tootall.html

[202_Cyclist]

I posted this a few yrs back about building heights (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=169060)

This is from the FAA (https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/portal.jsp ).


CFR Title 14 Part 77.13 states that any person/organization who intends to sponsor any of the following construction or alterations must notify the Administrator of the FAA:

any construction or alteration exceeding 200 ft above ground level
any construction or alteration:
within 20,000 ft of a public use or military airport which exceeds a 100:1 surface from any point on the runway of each airport with at least one runway more than 3,200 ft
within 10,000 ft of a public use or military airport which exceeds a 50:1 surface from any point on the runway of each airport with its longest runway no more than 3,200 ft
within 5,000 ft of a public use heliport which exceeds a 25:1 surface
any highway, railroad or other traverse way whose prescribed adjusted height would exceed the above noted standards
when requested by the FAA
any construction or alteration located on a public use airport or heliport regardless of height or location.

The relevant regulation is 2004 CFR 14 Sec. 77.23, Standards for determining obstructions. The link is: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/janqtr/pdf/14cfr77.23.pdf ). The following FAA order about objects affecting the navigable airspace is also useful: http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/AIR/air0502.html. Figure 5-2-1 notes that a developer has to provide the FAA notice of proposed alteration or construction if the building or tower is more than 200 feet above ground level. The height of the ground level isn't at issue. Thus, if a developer built a 175 foot building on a mountain at 5,000feet above sea level, the developer not not be required to contact FAA.

[Grumbo Griel]

good to see some of these long forgotten proposals revived. 15 & Island looks great!

Can someone give me some perspective on this: what does this recent action mean for the likelihood that the project will actually proceed to completion? Does it change the odds? And what are the odds?

[tyleraf]

Doug manchester is moving forward on the Navy Broadway Complex project.http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/may/05/manchester-moving-forward-pacific-gateway-complex-/ Finally!

[eburress]

Doug manchester is moving forward on the Navy Broadway Complex project.http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/may/05/manchester-moving-forward-pacific-gateway-complex-/ Finally!

I'm interested to see what all these buildings end up looking like coming out of their "detailed designs." I'm guessing the design of most of the buildings will change from what we saw in the renderings.

[bmfarley]

I don't honestly know the rules or regulations, but wasn't it the FAA that forced that developer to lop the top few floors off of the tower they were building near Montgomery Field a few years ago?

No. The FAA told the city what the implications were to aviation. The city was compelled to act, otherwise Montgomery was screwed for air planes.

[mongoXZ]

Could this be a sign?

Condo high-rise approved, completion in 2015

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/05/25/bosa-ash5.2011_1_t352.bmp?980751187beea6fc26a3a9e93795d379f58af1c4
Vancouver Nat Bosa won approval Wednesday, of a 36-story, 285-unit condo tower to be built by 2015 north of the Santa Fe Depot downtown.

Estimated at a value of $250 million when completed, the as-yet unnamed project at Kettner Boulevard and Ash Street would be Bosa’s first local project since he opened Bayside on Ash west of the railroad tracks in 2008.

He said he’s proceeding now because the inventory of unsold new condos downtown is running low and values should equal or exceed pre-recession levels by the time his project opens in four years.

“There’s sunshine on the other side,” he said. “It’s peaking through. It’s time you put sunscreen on.”

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/may/25/condo-high-rise-approved-completion-2015/

[tyleraf]

Very nice. I am very glad to see this is going up soon. Bayside is one of my favorite buildings downtown. So this should make a great new addition to the skyline. On another note it doesn't sound like we're getting a new city hall anytime soon.http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/may/23/grand-jury-questions-city-hall-project/

[kpexpress]

Could this be a sign?

Condo high-rise approved, completion in 2015

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/05/25/bosa-ash5.2011_1_t352.bmp?980751187beea6fc26a3a9e93795d379f58af1c4
Vancouver Nat Bosa won approval Wednesday, of a 36-story, 285-unit condo tower to be built by 2015 north of the Santa Fe Depot downtown.

Estimated at a value of $250 million when completed, the as-yet unnamed project at Kettner Boulevard and Ash Street would be Bosa’s first local project since he opened Bayside on Ash west of the railroad tracks in 2008.

He said he’s proceeding now because the inventory of unsold new condos downtown is running low and values should equal or exceed pre-recession levels by the time his project opens in four years.

“There’s sunshine on the other side,” he said. “It’s peaking through. It’s time you put sunscreen on.”

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/may/25/condo-high-rise-approved-completion-2015/

I love this building. However, it will be some of the most expensive condo real estate in the city.

[eburress]

Could this be a sign?

Condo high-rise approved, completion in 2015

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/05/25/bosa-ash5.2011_1_t352.bmp?980751187beea6fc26a3a9e93795d379f58af1c4
Vancouver Nat Bosa won approval Wednesday, of a 36-story, 285-unit condo tower to be built by 2015 north of the Santa Fe Depot downtown.

Estimated at a value of $250 million when completed, the as-yet unnamed project at Kettner Boulevard and Ash Street would be Bosa’s first local project since he opened Bayside on Ash west of the railroad tracks in 2008.

He said he’s proceeding now because the inventory of unsold new condos downtown is running low and values should equal or exceed pre-recession levels by the time his project opens in four years.

“There’s sunshine on the other side,” he said. “It’s peaking through. It’s time you put sunscreen on.”

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/may/25/condo-high-rise-approved-completion-2015/

I think I liked the older version of this building better (it was similar but taller and it incorporated yellow like Bayside) but this one isn't too shabby! I'm glad the building ball may be rolling again! ;)

[HurricaneHugo]

Why have none of you told me about COMM22?!

http://www.mve-architects.com/portfolio/pr/215_Commercial-22nd-Street-Mixed-Use

http://www.bridgehousing.com/Comm22

"COMM 22 is BRIDGE's largest development in Southern California to date. This mixed-use, urban infill development will bring a fresh energy to San Diego's Bronze Triangle neighborhood. Working with nonprofit partners MAAC Project and the Bronze Triangle Community Development Corporation, BRIDGE will develop 226 new homes in a mixed-income development that will combine affordable apartments for seniors and families with community-serving retail space, market-rate lofts and for-sale homes. A unique design will combine new construction with adaptive reuse of existing structures. The plans also include child-care services, access to transportation and commercial office space."

Our new house is just a couple of blocks from there so it'd be nice to watch it rise! :)

[Lipani]

^ That'll be great for Logan. So many parts around Commercial and 22nd have been fenced off for years!

[bmfarley]

Where is this located?

[mongoXZ]

Where is this located?

Commercial Street (aka N Street) is a run-down street leading from East Village into Logan Heights. Since the Trolley's Orange Line runs straight through it I think is would be a perfect place for some significant TOD development in the distant future. Imagine some mid-rises on the other side of the Interstate 5!:)

Here's a pic of the area:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38677544@N00/2662858408/

[tyleraf]

Does anyone know whether the Chula Vista bayfront project is still alive? Link:http://www.portofsandiego.org/chula-vista-bayfront-master-plan.html

[mongoXZ]

Last I heard that CV Bayfront proposal thing is d-e-a-d.

Introducing the Silver Line. . .:banana:

San Diego streetcar will take a route to the past
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/may/29/san-diego-streetcar-will-take-route-past/
By Robert J. Hawkins
6:46 p.m., May 29, 2011
METROPOLITAN TRANSIT SYSTEM
DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO — As early as mid-July, downtown San Diegans should begin spotting a ghost from a past most never knew.

A painstakingly restored electric streetcar, the likes of which last ran here in 1949, will begin operating on a downtown loop on weekends and holidays.

When state regulatory approval is given, the streetcar will run on what will be called The Silver Line, a clockwise loop starting at the 12th & Imperial Transit Station to America Plaza, east on C Street to City College before returning to 12th & Imperial.

The Silver Line streetcar will run on existing track in between Blue and Orange line trolleys. A special stop at the 12th & Imperial station will have a canopy that echoes the coloring and design of the streetcar era.

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/05/29/streetcar_t352.jpg?980751187beea6fc26a3a9e93795d379f58af1c4
Vintage San Diego Streetcar PCC 529 is scheduled to run on a downtown route starting in mid-July. Streetcars last operated in San Diego in 1949. The coloring is exactly like that of the original San Diego cars.

[HurricaneHugo]

Eh, useless.

Give us the mid-coast extension already.

[mongoXZ]

Eh, useless.

Give us the mid-coast extension already.

You're not seeing the potential here. Eventually this thing can expand into Hillcrest/Balboa Park, North Park, and areas beyond. The streetcar is used to serve a more concentrated and more urban area for the critical mass being reached in downtown. The coolest streetcar I've seen is Toronto's which was being heavily used. It gives the city a more cosmopolitan, urban vibe.

7QOVy3fTejY

[Lipani]

Until it expands up that way I don't see how it will be used that much other than diehard tourists. You won't even be able to use a Compass Card, so you might as well save some money and just walk anywhere in downtown for the time being.

[mongoXZ]

:previous:

At least this is a start, right? No major construction is being done since the tracks are in place. The old streetcars were practically donated and refurbished by volunteers. No significant amount of money used. Nothing to lose. Other cities would kill to have this opportunity for their city cores.

[HurricaneHugo]

How is it different from running the trolley?

Same tracks, same stations, older trains, no use of a compass card...

[brantw]

How is it different from running the trolley?

Same tracks, same stations, older trains, no use of a compass card...

Yeah, I'm starting to get really confused about all of this. From what I've read, there are tracks that used to go through Hillcrest and Northpark, but have now been covered up. How could only these new (old) cars be able to use the tracks, but not the other trolley cars? Also, doesn't the trolley need the cables overhead to give it power? I have never seen any of these cables in Hillcrest or Northpark, so I don't understand how "no construction" would be necessary for them to run? And if they don't need the overhead cables, then why would they need the tracks at all? Couldn't they just put street tires on them and they could run anywhere? I get that these run on the tracks, so then where does the power come from?:koko:

[SDfan]

I think some things need to be cleared up here.

The old street car being put into service is really more of a novelty rather then an actual model for future transportation, downtown, uptown, or anywhere.

That's why MTS didn't pay anything to get this started. Its more for fun, tourists and to draw people to mass transit alternatives.

Now, as for getting a modern streetcar system put into place, that is being studied and looked at by SANDAG and MTS. As the video from Toronto posted earlier shows, streetcars are slimmer, shorter, have less carrying capacity, and are more ideal for urban neighborhoods then traditional light rail (LRT) systems.

Basically, they would be perfect for Hillcrest, North Park, South Park and Golden Hill.

So, lets break it down.

1.) The old school streetcar going into service is a novelty to attract attention.

2.) The old streetcar was not paid for as a real transit alternative, but furnished by volunteers and funded by donations.

3.) There are studies looking at modern streetcars for San Diego's urban neighborhoods (as well as for downtown Oceanside, Escondido and El Cajon).

3.) Those studies will be conducted by SANDAG and MTS. Just look at the SANDAG 2050 transportation regional map plans.

Any other questions?

[brantw]

I get all of that. I was more interested in learning what would be needed to be built in Hillcrest and Northpark to run these cars.

Would they have to build out the electrical lines that the cars connect to from the pole that sticks out of the top of the cars? I apologize I don't know the name for these things.

If they do have to build those, I was wondering how the streetcars used to run in Hillcrest and Northpark. Some articles have mentioned there used to be tracks, which are now reported to be covered up. Did they once have the upper electrical wires above as well, but those were just taken down?

That's about it. Thanks for your help.

[SDfan]

I get all of that. I was more interested in learning what would be needed to be built in Hillcrest and Northpark to run these cars.

Would they have to build out the electrical lines that the cars connect to from the pole that sticks out of the top of the cars? I apologize I don't know the name for these things.

If they do have to build those, I was wondering how the streetcars used to run in Hillcrest and Northpark. Some articles have mentioned there used to be tracks, which are now reported to be covered up. Did they once have the upper electrical wires above as well, but those were just taken down?

That's about it. Thanks for your help.

There were tracks that lead all over the city at one point. In fact they even ran all the way to La Jolla Village. As for over head wires, those existed as well. It wouldn't be difficult to place those back up given that all you need is clearance really. You can see some of the old streetcar tracks at various points in the city actually, and there is even a park somewhere in the city that has an old streetcar depot.

I was talking to a member of the city council, and they were hoping to get the street cars back into the uptown neighborhoods in ten years time. Although, they wouldn't guarantee anything.

[HurricaneHugo]

How does it compare to trolleys/buses cost wise, speed wise, and carrying capacity wise?

I think these streetcars would be nice to go up and down 5th/6th avenues, but a trolley system would be much better for North Park.