SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[SDfan]

I think there is more political nuance to what Hasan is doing than some folks give him credit for. The man did run a regional planning body covering 20M people and 100+ cities and counties, and won a transit ballot measure to boot. So, I think he can figure out how to handle 3M folks under just 19 jurisdictions.

My take is that he's going as far left on transit as possible to bring right wingers to the center left. Right now, Gasper, Desmond and Co. are asking for some HOV lanes and connectors, and minor expansions on rural highways. That isn't a full throttled "build freeways everywhere now" approach that their predecessors would have demanded. It's actually very weak in comparison.

Hasan is politically savvy, IMO. He's got the other side admitting we need more mobility options, and they're asking for way less in terms of highway expansion.

Now, I do think that Gasper, Desmond and Co. are exaggerating their position. Calling into question a yet to be presented plan is one thing; threatening recall elections of their colleagues at SANDAG is another, and I hope they get called out more for it.

Obviously, Gasper needs to draw attention away from her support and connections to Trump, and highlighting a local issue like traffic is a traditionally clever way to sidestep. However, it may not be enough given the demos of her district, and her opponents will have the upper hand on climate action, which polls very, very well in Gasper's district.

Of course, a lot of things will happen before Hasan presents his vision formally to the board in November, so we shall see.

[SDfan]

1. Harbor Island?
2. Coronado (ferry depot)?
3. Coronado Nat. Monument on Pt. Loma?
4. somewhere else?

I like the view from Harbor Island best. For a view of the city & mountains, maybe Pt. Loma heights near the lighthouse.

I don't know the exact exit, but heading north on the 805 from Chula Vista there is a sweet view of the skyline. Also I hear that there is a nice view from Emerald Hills in SE SD.

[mello]

I called Lori Weisberg from the UT she said they are still positive and an announcement on financing will be coming soon.

BOSA Semi Twin to Pacific Gate: Called BOSA office and spoke to a manager she said he is waiting to see how Manchesters project plays out and thinks that will add value to his new tower so ground breaking on that is at least a year away maybe 2. -- However a recession will have hit by then so we shall see. Chinese buyers have dried up so pricey condo high rises on the bay could be tough.

Skyline view: Its the L Street Telegrah Canyon exit you are talking about off 805 you can hike up past a residential neighborhood on a hill there maybe 1/2 mile east of 805 and get a killer view.

The SE hood view that is nice is the very west end of Paradise Hills Rd the is military housing off of Munda road. Drive up in there and you will find a really nice vantage point at 6298 Bougainville Rd.

[SDCAL]

Thanks Mello for the detective work.

hope we see 7th/Market under construction this year!

[SDfan]

mello you are awesome, thank you.

[CaliNative]

1. Harbor Island?
2. Coronado (ferry depot)?
3. Coronado Nat. Monument on Pt. Loma?
4. somewhere else?

I like the view from Harbor Island best. For a view of the city & mountains, maybe Pt. Loma heights near the lighthouse.

Of course I meant to say Cabrillo National Mounument, not "Coronado National Monument". Brain f*rt. Thanks for the other posts above that describe great skyline views besides the above. The most distant skyline views I know about can be seen from Double Peak Park in San Marcos (on a clear day), probably 40 miles away as the crow flies. Some of the peaks to the east like Mt. Laguna probably afford good skyline views, but I'm not sure. It is interesting to note that the current San Diego skyline dwarfs the San Francisco and Los Angeles skylines that existed before the late 1960s (tallest building in SF before 1967 was the 464' Hartford Building--in L.A. it was 454' City Hall). That pesky 500' height limit limits us somewhat, but the sheer number of skyscrapers continues to grow and densify.

[Will O' Wisp]

1. Harbor Island?
2. Coronado (ferry depot)?
3. Coronado Nat. Monument on Pt. Loma?
4. somewhere else?

I like the view from Harbor Island best. For a view of the city & mountains, maybe Pt. Loma heights near the lighthouse.

You've hit all the high points, but I'll add a few more.

1. Mr. A's in Banker's Hill. Second only to Harbor Island in my humble experience. The best views are on the outdoor patio, which you'll usually need to reserve in advance. They have a dress code which they do enforce (minimum of collared shirt and nice jeans, no t-shirts or flip-flips) and plates are $50-80 not including drinks.

2. Marston Point in Balboa Park. Just an fyi, it's directly under the flight path into Lindbergh so expect a fair bit of noise (of course, for some that's a bonus).

3. Palm St pedestrian overpass across the 5. Probably one of the best places to watch aircraft coming into Lindbergh.

I think there is more political nuance to what Hasan is doing than some folks give him credit for.

I can see many of your points, and ultimately we can never truly know what's going through Ikhrata's mind.

What I see, however, is Ikhrata attempting to apply his LA area strategies in SD without taking into account the major differences between the two regions, both political and physical.

First off, unlike SCAG, SANDAG collects taxes directly from its entire jurisdiction and builds most of the region's transportation infrastructure itself. That gives it a massive amount of power compared to its LA area counterpart, but that also subjects it to a comparatively larger amount of pressure from local governments. In LA, Imperial County can ignore SCAG's vision if it chooses to and put its taxes into freeways instead. Cities and unincorporated communities in SD don't have that right, and so naturally they're going to exert a heck of a lot more pressure on SANDAG to determine what gets built.

So it might less informative to think of Ikhrata as moving from an agency that plans for 20m people to one that plans for 3m, but rather from an agency that has a $50m annual budget to one that has a $1.3b annual budget. He's not making paper plans anymore, Hasan Ikhrata effectively has total control what transportation infrastructures does (and doesn't) get built in SD county. That's a level of power and political influence exponentially greater than what he had at SCAG, and he really seems to be enjoying the level of attention from the press this gives him.

And that ties into his other big issue, which is that he also seems to discount the sometimes very personal nature of SD politics. Ikhrata said (to the press, mind you) that he was annoyed with Supervisor Desmond continually asking him about expanding the 78, which he characterized as pushy and uninformed. That's just on the high side of slander against the only elected official in all of NE County, and one with a great deal of influence over the only other countywide body in SD. I'm not saying I support the way Desmond reacted by then burying Ikhrata's plan with negative press coverage before it was even released (and believe me, Desmond is the real leader of this three ring circus. Gaspar is just trying to hitch a ride to reelection), but anyone familiar with SD politics would've known what was going to happen.

I can tell you from personal experience the transition from the LA to to the SD political sphere can be a rough one. There are far, far less players and you're constantly dealing with the same people over and over again. Political decorum and maintaining relationships are extremely important. That's why I post my more controversial opinions online anonymously rather than send them to the press, when I don't even have a fraction of the importance or political attention Ikhrata does... :typing:

As for transit vs freeways, Desmond and Gaspar were already not against totally transit. They were going to be against taxes, especially large ones dedicated for transit, but if Ikhrata hadn't moved towards deleting the 2004 ballot projects they wouldn't be getting nearly the same press coverage they are now. That's a pretty big problem because it's going to be hard enough to sell a major transit push in SD as it is. SD county is roughly the same size as LA county but only has 1/3rd the population, population density, and GDP. To gain the same ridership percentages as LA you are going to need to raise a proportionally higher amount of revenue, aka taxes will probably need to be higher on a per person basis than LA. Considering LA's Measure S barely squeaked through in 2017, that doesn't bode well for an even larger tax increase in historically conservative SD. I like a lot of Ikhrata's thoughts, but I have trouble seeing how he'll come up with something that's really workable in SD.

Also, you're awesome mello never change :cool:

[CaliNative]

You've hit all the high points, but I'll add a few more.

1. Mr. A's in Banker's Hill. Second only to Harbor Island in my humble experience. The best views are on the outdoor patio, which you'll usually need to reserve in advance. They have a dress code which they do enforce (minimum of collared shirt and nice jeans, no t-shirts or flip-flips) and plates are $50-80 not including drinks.

2. Marston Point in Balboa Park. Just an fyi, it's directly under the flight path into Lindbergh so expect a fair bit of noise (of course, for some that's a bonus).

3. Palm St pedestrian overpass across the 5. Probably one of the best places to watch aircraft coming into Lindbergh.



I can see many of your points, and ultimately we can never truly know what's going through Ikhrata's mind.

What I see, however, is Ikhrata attempting to apply his LA area strategies in SD without taking into account the major differences between the two regions, both political and physical.

First off, unlike SCAG, SANDAG collects taxes directly from its entire jurisdiction and builds most of the region's transportation infrastructure itself. That gives it a massive amount of power compared to its LA area counterpart, but that also subjects it to a comparatively larger amount of pressure from local governments. In LA, Imperial County can ignore SCAG's vision if it chooses to and put its taxes into freeways instead. Cities and unincorporated communities in SD don't have that right, and so naturally they're going to exert a heck of a lot more pressure on SANDAG to determine what gets built.

So it might less informative to think of Ikhrata as moving from an agency that plans for 20m people to one that plans for 3m, but rather from an agency that has a $50m annual budget to one that has a $1.3b annual budget. He's not making paper plans anymore, Hasan Ikhrata effectively has total control what transportation infrastructures does (and doesn't) get built in SD county. That's a level of power and political influence exponentially greater than what he had at SCAG, and he really seems to be enjoying the level of attention from the press this gives him.

And that ties into his other big issue, which is that he also seems to discount the sometimes very personal nature of SD politics. Ikhrata said (to the press, mind you) that he was annoyed with Supervisor Desmond continually asking him about expanding the 78, which he characterized as pushy and uninformed. That's just on the high side of slander against the only elected official in all of NE County, and one with a great deal of influence over the only other countywide body in SD. I'm not saying I support the way Desmond reacted by then burying Ikhrata's plan with negative press coverage before it was even released (and believe me, Desmond is the real leader of this three ring circus. Gaspar is just trying to hitch a ride to reelection), but anyone familiar with SD politics would've known what was going to happen.

I can tell you from personal experience the transition from the LA to to the SD political sphere can be a rough one. There are far, far less players and you're constantly dealing with the same people over and over again. Political decorum and maintaining relationships are extremely important. That's why I post my more controversial opinions online anonymously rather than send them to the press, when I don't even have a fraction of the importance or political attention Ikhrata does... :typing:

As for transit vs freeways, Desmond and Gaspar were already not against totally transit. They were going to be against taxes, especially large ones dedicated for transit, but if Ikhrata hadn't moved towards deleting the 2004 ballot projects they wouldn't be getting nearly the same press coverage they are now. That's a pretty big problem because it's going to be hard enough to sell a major transit push in SD as it is. SD county is roughly the same size as LA county but only has 1/3rd the population, population density, and GDP. To gain the same ridership percentages as LA you are going to need to raise a proportionally higher amount of revenue, aka taxes will probably need to be higher on a per person basis than LA. Considering LA's Measure S barely squeaked through in 2017, that doesn't bode well for an even larger tax increase in historically conservative SD. I like a lot of Ikhrata's thoughts, but I have trouble seeing how he'll come up with something that's really workable in SD.

Also, you're awesome mello never change :cool:

Interesting comments above.

On a separate topic, the so called "San Diego State West" development that will presumably occupy the Qualcomm Stadium site should have many more high rise apartment buildings, many of them affordable. Room for 5000 units at least on the land, as well as the SDSU expansion if they build up. The housing shortage, particularly affordable units, is untenable if SD is to remain vital. I hope it is not too late to modify the plans. This is public land after all. Another prime area for high rise apt/condo towers might be the sports arena site in Midway, if they could build a new arena downtown (and attract major league basketball/hockey) and free up the land at Midway.

[Nerv]

You've hit all the high points, but I'll add a few more.

1. Mr. A's in Banker's Hill. Second only to Harbor Island in my humble experience. The best views are on the outdoor patio, which you'll usually need to reserve in advance. They have a dress code which they do enforce (minimum of collared shirt and nice jeans, no t-shirts or flip-flips) and plates are $50-80 not including drinks.

2. Marston Point in Balboa Park. Just an fyi, it's directly under the flight path into Lindbergh so expect a fair bit of noise (of course, for some that's a bonus).

3. Palm St pedestrian overpass across the 5. Probably one of the best places to watch aircraft coming into Lindbergh.



I can see many of your points, and ultimately we can never truly know what's going through Ikhrata's mind.

What I see, however, is Ikhrata attempting to apply his LA area strategies in SD without taking into account the major differences between the two regions, both political and physical.

First off, unlike SCAG, SANDAG collects taxes directly from its entire jurisdiction and builds most of the region's transportation infrastructure itself. That gives it a massive amount of power compared to its LA area counterpart, but that also subjects it to a comparatively larger amount of pressure from local governments. In LA, Imperial County can ignore SCAG's vision if it chooses to and put its taxes into freeways instead. Cities and unincorporated communities in SD don't have that right, and so naturally they're going to exert a heck of a lot more pressure on SANDAG to determine what gets built.

So it might less informative to think of Ikhrata as moving from an agency that plans for 20m people to one that plans for 3m, but rather from an agency that has a $50m annual budget to one that has a $1.3b annual budget. He's not making paper plans anymore, Hasan Ikhrata effectively has total control what transportation infrastructures does (and doesn't) get built in SD county. That's a level of power and political influence exponentially greater than what he had at SCAG, and he really seems to be enjoying the level of attention from the press this gives him.

And that ties into his other big issue, which is that he also seems to discount the sometimes very personal nature of SD politics. Ikhrata said (to the press, mind you) that he was annoyed with Supervisor Desmond continually asking him about expanding the 78, which he characterized as pushy and uninformed. That's just on the high side of slander against the only elected official in all of NE County, and one with a great deal of influence over the only other countywide body in SD. I'm not saying I support the way Desmond reacted by then burying Ikhrata's plan with negative press coverage before it was even released (and believe me, Desmond is the real leader of this three ring circus. Gaspar is just trying to hitch a ride to reelection), but anyone familiar with SD politics would've known what was going to happen.

I can tell you from personal experience the transition from the LA to to the SD political sphere can be a rough one. There are far, far less players and you're constantly dealing with the same people over and over again. Political decorum and maintaining relationships are extremely important. That's why I post my more controversial opinions online anonymously rather than send them to the press, when I don't even have a fraction of the importance or political attention Ikhrata does... :typing:

As for transit vs freeways, Desmond and Gaspar were already not against totally transit. They were going to be against taxes, especially large ones dedicated for transit, but if Ikhrata hadn't moved towards deleting the 2004 ballot projects they wouldn't be getting nearly the same press coverage they are now. That's a pretty big problem because it's going to be hard enough to sell a major transit push in SD as it is. SD county is roughly the same size as LA county but only has 1/3rd the population, population density, and GDP. To gain the same ridership percentages as LA you are going to need to raise a proportionally higher amount of revenue, aka taxes will probably need to be higher on a per person basis than LA. Considering LA's Measure S barely squeaked through in 2017, that doesn't bode well for an even larger tax increase in historically conservative SD. I like a lot of Ikhrata's thoughts, but I have trouble seeing how he'll come up with something that's really workable in SD.

Also, you're awesome mello never change :cool:


I’m not sure how transit in SD is going to happen going forward but after the pushback that happened on expanding San Diego’s interstate 5 with them going for the smallest change (I’m getting 1 carpool lane on each side where I live) I don’t see hwy 78 getting any great expansion without the locals going after the person pushing for it. I can’t speak for the folks in the south county but expanding freeways or major highways is not popular in the north county by residents unless it’s so far out it has zero negative impact to residents. No one likes the traffic but they seem more willing to put up with it than endless expansion into people’s neighborhoods.

I think the elected officials aren’t in step with residents and learn their lessons the hard way when pushing in the wrong direction.

The 78 surely needs some expansion work but I’d tread lightly on what you suggest if I was making that call.

You can’t expand freeways and highways forever and the residents have to remind the current local elected idiot that as they pass through their terms here...:uhh:

[mello]

Nerv: When was it announced the expansion is being cut back? I never heard about this. I thought it was going to be 6 lanes eachway at all times from Del Mar to Oceanside and 7 lanes at some points. It seems like pretty big news that now it will only be 1 extra lane expansion. Can you provide links please. Look at the San Elijo lagoon bridge at Manchester ave in Cardiff it is wide as hell on both sides! How can that possibly be for just 1 extra lane each way? That bridge widening looks like it could easily accommodate 3 lanes on each side. Anyone else notice this?

Construction Update: Anyone see that crappy old appartment building cleared next to the Symphony Towers Marriot in 7th/A ? Looks like that 22 floor tower that was approved almost 4 years ago could be starting.

[Will O' Wisp]

I’m not sure how transit in SD is going to happen going forward but after the pushback that happened on expanding San Diego’s interstate 5 with them going for the smallest change (I’m getting 1 carpool lane on each side where I live) I don’t see hwy 78 getting any great expansion without the locals going after the person pushing for it. I can’t speak for the folks in the south county but expanding freeways or major highways is not popular in the north county by residents unless it’s so far out it has zero negative impact to residents. No one likes the traffic but they seem more willing to put up with it than endless expansion into people’s neighborhoods.

I think the elected officials aren’t in step with residents and learn their lessons the hard way when pushing in the wrong direction.

The 78 surely needs some expansion work but I’d tread lightly on what you suggest if I was making that call.

You can’t expand freeways and highways forever and the residents have to remind the current local elected idiot that as they pass through their terms here...:uhh:

The 5 is getting two carpool lanes, which will later be switched to 'managed lanes' (toll lanes). Or at least, it was under the old plan, although Ikhrata has shown a good deal of support for managed lanes as a revenue generator. The environmental review for the whole project is already done, the only reason SANDAG isn't building both lanes at once is their lack of funding.

And that's perhaps the real issue here, is that SANDAG has a huge amount of territory to cover and very little money to do it with. We're the same size as LA county with 1/3rd the people and money. And currently we're only taxed at 1/3rd the rate LA county is for transit, so right now SANDAG is trying to cover the same geographic area as LA with 1/6th the funding.

That's not even enough to finish a freeway network, much less a more expensive transit network. Just to get us on LA's per capita transit tax rate we'll need to triple our sales tax from 0.5% to 1.5%. But even then SANDAG is only going to get 1/3rd the income their counterparts in LA do, when to get the same results they'll need to spend fairly similar amounts (the per mile costs of rail don't vary much with ridership). Seattle, in a similar position as SD, makes up the difference with a combination of taxes on cars and property which come out to around six times the overall rate San Diegans currently pay for transportation infrastructure, lining up with this figure.

Keep that figure in mind, 6x times the current level of per person taxation. There's a lot of legitimate concern that the sticker shock of raising transportation taxes six times over their current level will put off SD voters. In 2017 LA was barely able to pass California's requirement of a 2/3rds majority for an increase of 2x to 3x. In 2016 Seattle's increase from 3x to 6x only passed by 53%, under California state law that ballot proposition would have failed (not to mention one of the key components in keeping the tax increase even somewhat progressive, a 1% annual property tax, would violate California's Prop 13). Even in the best of circumstances this would be extremely difficult measure to get passed.

Then on top of that you're throwing on the "broken promises" issue and Ikhrata angering leaders who oppose him by dissing them in the media. Now you suddenly have to deal with a well organized, well funded, and influential opposition campaign with a very voter friendly soundbite. The mayors of SD and Chula Vista, who came out as some of the strongest support for the new plan at the SANDAG meeting two weeks ago, are now refusing interviews on the subject and limiting themselves to vague statements about their overall support of transit. That's the sort of thing a politicians do to avoid tying themselves to a losing position, which isn't exactly a strong show of support from the most transit friendly areas in the region.

I do believe in a transit based future, in San Diego even, but I'm also realistic. It would take a political genius to give this plan even a shred of a chance, and Ikhrata seems more of an engineer than a politician. A more transitionary plan might be better suited to the situation.

[Nerv]

Nerv: When was it announced the expansion is being cut back? I never heard about this. I thought it was going to be 6 lanes eachway at all times from Del Mar to Oceanside and 7 lanes at some points. It seems like pretty big news that now it will only be 1 extra lane expansion. Can you provide links please. Look at the San Elijo lagoon bridge at Manchester ave in Cardiff it is wide as hell on both sides! How can that possibly be for just 1 extra lane each way? That bridge widening looks like it could easily accommodate 3 lanes on each side. Anyone else notice this?

Construction Update: Anyone see that crappy old appartment building cleared next to the Symphony Towers Marriot in 7th/A ? Looks like that 22 floor tower that was approved almost 4 years ago could be starting.


https://www.californiaeminentdomainreport.com/2010/11/articles/projects/proposed-i-5-expansion-reveals-divided-community/

https://www.californiaeminentdomainreport.com/2010/11/articles/projects/proposed-i-5-expansion-reveals-divided-community/

If you click on the above you can see some of the original options discussed a decade ago. Anyone living in costal San Diego is aware of the value of the land and homes surrounding the 5 as well as the impact of trying to “insert” a mega lane freeway in completely built up cities. The support by citizens wasn’t there a decade ago and is probably far less today. I’ve been around for a number of those meetings with angry citizens. I think the response in north county for freeway and highway expansions is a thumbs down and mass transit is still neutral since all we really have is the coaster and sprinter which seem to have grown on the locals here to some degree.

There’s a lot of money in the north county that can put politicians in the crosshairs if someone more powerful doesn’t want something. Lol
I’ve seen the results of that firsthand too.

They are currently mostly just removing the center of the i5 to add those 2 extra carpool lanes so a lot of area isn’t really impacted other than noise up to Palomar airport road.

They fight hard over everything down here. Even putting up sound walls and what they can look like is open to hard debates.

[SDFC]

How big will this be for downtown?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Council-to-Vote-to-Transform-Horton-Plaza--510152371.html%3famp=y

[Will O' Wisp]

VoSD came out with a trio of fairly interesting articles this week about the continuing SANDAG controversy.

SANDAG’s New Chief Welcomes Heat, Calls Consensus of the Past a Lie (https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/government/sandags-new-chief-welcomes-heat-calls-consensus-of-the-past-a-lie/)

In response to increased criticism of his regional plan proposals Ikhrata has stepped up his rhetoric, stating that every past SANDAG plan has been purposely non-compliant with state environmental law, and thus any previous agreements within SANDAG are null and void because they were based upon these lies.

I'm not quite sure how to evaluate these claims, on one hand it is true that previous SANDAG plans prioritized cars over transit and the 2015 regional plan failed a state environmental review, but there's no evidence previous SANDAG leadership knowingly lied about the environmental consequences of their plans or deliberately attempted to skirt CA state environmental laws. SANDAG always seemed to have had an unspoken policy of focusing on freeway infrastructure and only building just enough transit to maintain compliance, a ratio which they cut a little too fine in 2015 (they only cut emissions by 18% instead of the required 19%), it's likely that in the end their plans would fail to provide all the benefits advertised but there's no real way to prove this.

Politics Report: Sharp Words at SANDAG Meeting (https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/politics/politics-report-sharp-words-at-sandag-meeting/)

More info on that last rancorous Board meeting, and a confirmation that Ikhrata is all in on this. He will put his plan up to the board again and again and again until they either accept it or fire him. Gotta give the man credit for that commitment.

How Kevin Faulconer Touched Off a Historic Debate About San Diego’s Transportation Future (https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/government/how-kevin-faulconer-touched-off-a-historic-debate-about-san-diegos-transportation-future/)

The most important man in the room has yet to say anything. Mayor Faulconer was instrumental in placing Ikhrata where he is today, and his support will either make or brake Ikhrata's plans. Has our usually cautious mayor decided that for his last year in office it's finally the time to have out the long simmering public debate over the future of transportation in San Diego, or is he shocked at the level of Ikhrata's extremism when all he really wanted was a slightly more transit friendly executive? Hard to say really.

[JerellO]

How big will this be for downtown?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Council-to-Vote-to-Transform-Horton-Plaza--510152371.html%3famp=y

I really wish some of the Italianate features of Horton plaza could be spared... like the staircase, classical stone “railing” of the Lyceum, the obelisk, the gas lights, etc

[SDfan]

Steel is rising from Pacific Gateway, folks.

https://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/edited-image_1.png (https://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/edited-image_1.png.html)

[Boatguy619]

I thought Pacific Gateway project was going to be built all at once rather than in phases? Seems like the Navy building is the only thing going up right now. Also why is it steel? Probably a stupid question. But it seems like everything going up around town is concrete and rebar in recent history. But this and 915 Grape are both steel.

[Nv_2897]

I thought Pacific Gateway project was going to be built all at once rather than in phases? Seems like the Navy building is the only thing going up right now. Also why is it steel? Probably a stupid question. But it seems like everything going up around town is concrete and rebar in recent history. But this and 915 Grape are both steel.

I think that it still is going to be built all at once but they are building the Navy Building at once so that they can move the navy from their old Headquarters into the New building and tear the old building down and put a park in its place. If that makes sense

[Streamliner]

I really wish some of the Italianate features of Horton plaza could be spared... like the staircase, classical stone “railing” of the Lyceum, the obelisk, the gas lights, etc

I agree, though it looks like they're preserving that triangular feature at the center at least. I think some of these odd 80's architectural features will be desirable in the near future.

[Streamliner]

Design of condo building behind El Cortez approved
Philip Nolmar
May 23, 2019
San Diego Union-Tribune
Article Link (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/real-estate/story/2019-05-22/condo-building-behind-el-cortez-approved)

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/af397c3/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1152x820+0+0/resize/840x598!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fca-times.brightspotcdn.com%2F7e%2F80%2Fc08cfaaf405ab7096413efea2296%2F777-beech-st-two.png

A condo tower directly behind the El Cortez building received design approval Wednesday from downtown’s planning agency despite some public opposition.

Critics of the project, including several residents of the El Cortez, argued putting the 12- to 13-story building roughly 20 to 22 feet from the downtown icon would tarnish the building.

Agency board members from Civic San Diego said they were limited to approving the design of the complex, which was received favorably. Also, the project isn’t a done deal yet: It must still be approved at a public hearing of the city’s development services department, and opponents plan to appeal — meaning it will then need approval of the San Diego Planning Commission.

Also interesting at the bottom of the article:

First and Beech: The board approved changes to a 429-unit apartment tower near the intersection of First and Beech streets. The 39-story tower was approved in 2016, but developer Willmark Communities sought to add 65 more apartments and make slight changes to the design. The project’s tower will be 425 feet tall and would be one of the tallest buildings in the Cortez neighborhood. The project would include 15 subsidized apartments for low-income renters, less than required to avoid paying the city’s inclusionary housing fee. The developer will also pay $1.5 million in fees, which could be used to pay for subsidized housing elsewhere. It will likely take nine months to a year before construction starts.

220 W. Broadway: A massive project at 220 W. Broadway to replace the former San Diego County Courthouse was approved by the board. Developer Holland Partner Group, of Vancouver, Wash., plans a 37-story building with 431 apartments (including 87 subsidized units), 270,492 square feet of office space and 18,595 square feet of commercial space. The site is 54,647 square feet and bounded by Broadway, Union, Front and C streets. Sale of the land to Holland may still take several months and construction is expected to take around 4 years.

[mello]

Is this Willmark Communities a serious developer or not? Have you guys ever heard of them? Tower approved since 2016, at the peak of cycle with recession looming like a CAT 5 hurricane sitting offshore and they are still dragging their feet saying its 9 months away from ground breaking?? I'm not sure we can take this company seriously and expect this tower to happen.

Manchester PAC Gateway: I'm a bit concerned as well that the only activity we are seeing is the Navy HQ being built. You would think if this isn't being phased we would have seen digging for other towers by now, can anyone see in to the site and check whats going on?

[JerellO]

Check out the Aerial view of the new space in this render... idk how to post pictures lol

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2019/may/22/downtown-san-diego-partnership-why-campus-horton-r/

[Streamliner]

Check out the Aerial view of the new space in this render... idk how to post pictures lol

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2019/may/22/downtown-san-diego-partnership-why-campus-horton-r/

right click the image, click "open page in new tab" or something like that, and copy that URL. When you make a post, there's a little picture button that lets you insert the URL.

I found a larger, crisper version of the image online. Note how they are keeping the zany triangular feature at the center:

https://cdn.archpaper.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/view6190516.jpg

[Crackertastik]

Is this Willmark Communities a serious developer or not? Have you guys ever heard of them? Tower approved since 2016, at the peak of cycle with recession looming like a CAT 5 hurricane sitting offshore and they are still dragging their feet saying its 9 months away from ground breaking?? I'm not sure we can take this company seriously and expect this tower to happen.

Manchester PAC Gateway: I'm a bit concerned as well that the only activity we are seeing is the Navy HQ being built. You would think if this isn't being phased we would have seen digging for other towers by now, can anyone see in to the site and check whats going on?

Quietly, Manchester is thinking about selling their development rights to all but the Navy Tower and Office/Hotel Tower closest to broadway. Big players are looking at the acquisition.

[Streamliner]

How big will this be for downtown?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Council-to-Vote-to-Transform-Horton-Plaza--510152371.html%3famp=y

If it's successful, I think the Horton Plaza redevelopment could be huge for downtown. Regional trends have shown that downtown has started to become a residential neighborhood, while most high paying office jobs have moved to the suburbs. If the Campus at Horton is a success, I think it would signal to employers that the workforce really does want to work in a downtown urban environment, they just needed the opportunity. Developers need to think that they can make money by investing in these kinds of projects. We're seeing a little bit of that lately with some downtown office building renovations, government buildings, IDEA District, and the UCSD Extension, but I think something as big as Horton Plaza being successful would be a huge wake up call.

However, I think it's possible that it won't work out as well as hoped. I worry about a recession hitting employment growth, or regional cost of living getting out of control. SD isn't poised for a ton of growth in the same way that Seattle or other cities are. :shrug:

[eburress]

Note how they are keeping the zany triangular feature at the center:


I'm glad they are...it's a nice reminder of the mall's former version.

[SDCAL]

Thanks Streamliner and JereLLO for posting that rendering. I was hoping Jimbo’s would stay because I go there quite a bit and I see there is a Jimbo’s sign in the rendering. Does this mean they settled the lawsuit with the developers?

I know the Lyceum theater is staying.

I wonder if 24 hr Fitness and Macy’s will stay.

I hope Macy’s stays, would be nice to keep at least one major department store downtown.

[Will O' Wisp]

We're getting into the final stages of the Airport-Trolley project. Here's an image of the final four options

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/d1ad24f/2147483647/strip/true/crop/656x1173+0+0/resize/840x1502!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fca-times.brightspotcdn.com%2Fe0%2F26%2F1a12374744519223e717a1cbdd9b%2Fsd-fi-g-airport-connectors-01.jpg

Personally I'm in favor of the ITC site, partially because it would probably be the easiest and cheapest to construct, but mainly because this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8h0dOKBtQc) would be the view out the windows.

[Steadfast]

^
What's the ITC site? I hadn't heard of that proposal before now.

Also, I like the renders of Horton Plaza... The world needs more rooftop yoga.
And I sincerely hope the developers will do something to fix the south side parking entrance. IMO, it's one of the worst stretches of street front in the city.

[JerellO]

right click the image, click "open page in new tab" or something like that, and copy that URL. When you make a post, there's a little picture button that lets you insert the URL.

I found a larger, crisper version of the image online. Note how they are keeping the zany triangular feature at the center:

https://cdn.archpaper.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/view6190516.jpg

Thank you :) good to know

[spoonman]

We're getting into the final stages of the Airport-Trolley project. Here's an image of the final four options

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/d1ad24f/2147483647/strip/true/crop/656x1173+0+0/resize/840x1502!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fca-times.brightspotcdn.com%2Fe0%2F26%2F1a12374744519223e717a1cbdd9b%2Fsd-fi-g-airport-connectors-01.jpg

Personally I'm in favor of the ITC site, partially because it would probably be the easiest and cheapest to construct, but mainly because this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8h0dOKBtQc) would be the view out the windows.

Does anyone know what “people mover” refers to? Are we talking a short distance train (like ATL, PHX, DFW), a moving walkway, or some shuttle bus type operation?

[Will O' Wisp]

^
What's the ITC site? I hadn't heard of that proposal before now.

Also, I like the renders of Horton Plaza... The world needs more rooftop yoga.
And I sincerely hope the developers will do something to fix the south side parking entrance. IMO, it's one of the worst stretches of street front in the city.

The Intermobile Transit Center (ITC) was the originally proposed site for the trolley connection before this whole SPAWAR shebang started. If it isn't clear from the map, the ITC is across PCH from the north economy lot, in-between the Washington St trolley station and the rental car center (where that video was taken). The land is owned by the port and currently leased out for warehouses and parking lots.

Although it hasn't been as publicly vocal as some of the other factions the ITC is the airport's preferred option, as it presents the fewest engineering/political questions. Developing the SPAWAR site requires a complex 3-way negotiation between the current working group of local municipal agencies (SANDAG, NCTD, the Port, the city, and the airport), the Navy, and a private developer to provide funding, plus some level of negotiation with the Marines for the ROW to reach it. A tunnel simplifies the latter issue, but significantly increases the cost and reduces ridership by skipping potential station sites at harbor island and the rental car center. A direct trolley connection faces the difficulties of getting around the heavy rail lines running alongside the current trolley tracks between them and the airport. Going under is expensive, and going over presents issues with height limits around the airport (hardcore safety ones the FAA is not going to wiggle around on).

The SPAWAR site though has the advantages of greater East/West accessibility, a larger land area, and the potential for a P3 to defray a significant portion or even all of the costs. The ITC is a good site for a combined trolley, COASTER, and CAHSR station that compliments the Santa Fe depot. The SPAWAR site presents the opportunity to replace the Santa Fe depot entirely, reducing the depot to a stub end solely for downtown travelers. But to take full advantage you'll need to build an extremely large station (larger that LA Union Station by the current estimates), East/West high speed rail transit along the 8 freeway corridor to bring in more people, and remove coastal height limits in the Midway Pacific area so developers can make scratch building a set of skyscrapers around it. Otherwise the ridership will be similar to the ITC, which could be partially funded by the airport and a smaller P3 in a much more reliable fashion.

Re: south side of Horton Plaza, some of other renderings I've seen have the parking garages replaced with high rises. That might be something for a future development phase, after this one which seems mostly focused on renovations and conversions vs new development.

Re: Navy tower going up first at the Pacific Gateway, whenever I run a P3 where the private partner is building a separate piece of infrastructure for me it's going to be written in the contract that the developer is required to build all or a significant portion of my project before he can start on his. It ensures the developer will be properly focused on upholding his end of the bargain in a timely fashion and provide the quality I expect (or I'll just refuse accept the keys and his project will be left on hold). Also provides nice insurance against the developer running out of money mid-project. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Navy is running their P3 in the same way.

[Will O' Wisp]

Does anyone know what “people mover” refers to? Are we talking a short distance train (like ATL, PHX, DFW), a moving walkway, or some shuttle bus type operation?

Automated rail transit like ATL, DFW, or the under construction system at LAX.

http://gannettfleming.com/~/media/Images/Projects/Transportation/62421-1-PHXSkyTrainStage2.jpg

Example image from PHX

[Nerv]

We're getting into the final stages of the Airport-Trolley project. Here's an image of the final four options

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/d1ad24f/2147483647/strip/true/crop/656x1173+0+0/resize/840x1502!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fca-times.brightspotcdn.com%2Fe0%2F26%2F1a12374744519223e717a1cbdd9b%2Fsd-fi-g-airport-connectors-01.jpg

Personally I'm in favor of the ITC site, partially because it would probably be the easiest and cheapest to construct, but mainly because this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8h0dOKBtQc) would be the view out the windows.

I like option #2.

Might not be the cheapest or easiest but I think it would be best choice for the long term...

[HurricaneHugo]

1 is probably too expensive. 4 is probably too hard to do right.

What is the difference between SPAWAR and ITC?

I don't see it being much different besides needing less track for ITC

[Will O' Wisp]

1 is probably too expensive. 4 is probably too hard to do right.

What is the difference between SPAWAR and ITC?

I don't see it being much different besides needing less track for ITC

SPAWAR
Pros:
More space, enough for a transit hub comparable to LA union station
Better connections to an E/W transit line (still hypothetical at this point)
Enough extra land that a potential P3 could cover most/all of the cost

Cons:
Will need to negotiate with the Navy to acquire land
Will need to negotiate with a private developer for P3
Will need to negotiate with Marines for ROW on option 2
All of the above have very different goals which only tangentially relate to a transit hub, balancing them will be difficult
SD will need to make numerous land use changes and other infrastructure investments to really take advantage of SPAWAR's additional capacity.

ITC
Pros:
No major land acquisition issues
Close enough that the FAA might let airport help pay
Likely less expensive option overall

Cons:
Smaller land area, will be difficult to in fit new transit lines beyond what already exists
Proximity to airport will limit building heights, reducing value of potential P3
No extra land, also reducing value of potential P3
Possibility of taxpayers footing a larger portion of the final bill than SPAWAR

In short SPAWAR has the potential for a larger, more capable facility at less cost to the taxpayers, but we don't know really what we're getting right now or if we even want to make the infrastructure investments necessary to use that capacity. With the ITC you know exactly what you're getting and how much value it will bring, but that firmly defined concept brings less benefit than SPAWAR might bring if everything goes well.

[spoonman]

I think if we have learned anything in this city, it is that complex deals can take DECADES. In the case of SPAWAR, the land use issues could take a lifetime to sort out. Besides ITC being closer to downtown, it could move much faster and could fit better with the long term changes to the airport if things like the Northside terminals are ever constructed.

SPAWAR is the next Pacific Gate/NBC IMO.

[SDfan]

Good analysis, Will-o.

I support SPAWAR as a long term solution, and generally, bolder initiatives that get the job done right instead of half-assed incrementalism.

A lot of San Diego's history is "but it's too hard" and look what that's gotten us, lol.

It'll be fun to see how this plays out :nerd:

[JerellO]

Good analysis, Will-o.

I support SPAWAR as a long term solution, and generally, bolder initiatives that get the job done right instead of half-assed incrementalism.

A lot of San Diego's history is "but it's too hard" and look what that's gotten us, lol.

It'll be fun to see how this plays out :nerd:

Seriously... Our civic center was planned to be on a street lined with classical architecture, but we have the piece of shit in the core right now. I love Coronado bridge but if it wasn’t for its curvature it’s just a plain old bridge no different than the 805 freeway passing through mission valley lol we could’ve had something more iconic... then the whole deal about creating a mass transit system for our region similar to the BART up in the Bay Area, but we half-assed and ended up with our light rail system.

Besides the creation of Balboa Park and bringing us the Exposition, San Diego doesn’t tend to be as bold as Los Angeles or San Francisco when building things.

[mello]

I drive Uber and had a passenger who dealt with that new hotel about to open on Broadway (Old YMCA Building) said it was just a 50 million dollar project and the financing process was unbelievably complicated and rigorous. So imagine 7th/Market which with steel tariffs is probably now a 450 million dollar tower.

Just google DOW Jones average today and look at the recession and trade war fears that pop up in the articles below. The yield curve on bonds has inverted again. Not looking good guys... 7th and Market is so crucial to filling in gaps in our skyline and truly bulking it up and giving us a decent skyline for a metro of our size.

Let's pray financing is announced soon :worship:

I was on Harbor Island and looking at the big gap on Southside of Skyline Manchester Project will fill the gap from the West side of Harbor Island and 7th/Mark will fill it from the East Side towards the Tom Ham's light house restaurant. I call the projects the Gap Fillers :cheers:

[Will O' Wisp]

Alas, poor Civic San Diego! I knew it well....

San Diego to divorce its downtown planning agency in July (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/story/2019-05-31/san-diego-to-divorce-its-downtown-planning-agency-in-july?fbclid=IwAR3JKZlIGB7b-525NJ3x7L-Spu6VkWa1PPMU1_1-_8mcs04sLRoKbv4nTbI)

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/81e79d3/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2048x1152+0+0/resize/840x473!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.trbimg.com%2Fimg-57eee9d9%2Fturbine%2Fla-1475275229-snap-photo



Ending decades of contractual accord, San Diego plans this July to formally sever ties with its downtown planning agency, Civic San Diego, as the city seeks to make good on a court settlement involving the agency’s purported unchecked building power.

Tuesday City Council members will vote in the first of two decisions on whether to implement the legal resolution, which includes the termination of the city’s agency agreement with Civic and the rezoning of downtown’s Marina district. Council members first considered and approved the terms in closed session on March 19, but their enactment hinges on the governing body’s approval in open session.

Formed in 2012, but with roots that date to 1992, Civic has operated as a city-owned non-profit, overseeing downtown planning and project entitlement services. That authority has translated to the construction of more than 210 projects in 27 years for a total of 22,000 residential units, a million square feet of office and retail space, and 6,800 hotel rooms, according to information in a city staff report.

Those powers will, however, be stripped from the agency to resolve two lawsuits. The original complaint, brought in 2015 by the San Diego Building & Construction Trades Council and former Civic board member Murtaza Baxamusa, alleged that Civic lacked meaningful oversight and was too tight with private developers. Both the city and Civic deny any wrongdoing.

With approval from council, the city and Civic will July 1 terminate their agency agreement — or the consulting contract that governs the administration of downtown planning and permitting functions, as well as administration of the downtown parking district. As a result, the city will take over those responsibilities.

To help with the additional tasks, San Diego will add nine full-time positions to its Smart & Sustainable Communities division, likely bringing on board Civic’s planning team, led by Brad Richter, and the parking district staffers. It will also take over operation of the downtown shuttle service, Free Ride San Diego, known as FRED.

The separation will also cause the rezoning of properties within downtown San Diego’s Marina District. That district’s ordinance will be repealed to allow for regulatory consistency across downtown. The zoning will not result in changes to land uses, densities or height restrictions, a spokesperson for the city’s planning department said.

Once the settlement is finalized, Civic San Diego, as an independent public benefit company, will amend its operating contract with the city for the sole management of projects still tied to the ongoing wind-down of Centre City Development Corporation. CCDC, formed in 1992, was the precursor to Civic and was disbanded by the statewide dissolution of redevelopment agencies in 2012.

Going forward, Civic will continue with in-progress infrastructure and parks projects such as the Park Boulevard crossing and East Village Green, the $46 million park that is in the final planning stages. The agency, which has a staff of 30, will also likely reduce its headcount and shift to a primary focus on community investment programs. It also remains eligible to receive New Markets Tax Credit allocations, which are special tax credits awarded annually by the federal government.

In addition to putting to bed the Baxamusa complaint, the settlement also concludes a 2018 lawsuit from San Diegans for Open Government, which made similar charges against Civic San Diego. City Council will hear the proposed settlement implementation item on June 4. Per state law, it will also have to vote a second time on the matter. City staff anticipate a second decision on June 18 with the rezoning ordinances expected to take effect on July 19.


The city council meeting yesterday had more details. The relationship between Civic and the City will formally dissolve on July 19th, 2019. Downtown project approval authority will not, however, be placed under the Development Services Department (DSD). Instead a new department will be formed within the Smart & Sustainable Communities Division, which would place it on equal footing with DSD and its department head 4th down from the mayor. This department will have the authority to form its own rules/procedures for approving projects, with the guidance that they should be similar to those in place under Civic SD. There will be 9 positions available in the new department, 6 planners and 3 parking staffers (not so coincidentally, the exact same numbers as currently employed by Civic SD). All Civic planners and parking staff are being offered a position in the new department, and "many" have expressed interest in joining. The department will be run out of the former Civic SD planning offices in downtown.

Civic San Diego is dead.... long live Civic San Diego!

[RST500]

Will this PoMo wonderland in San Diego be saved?
An urban mall designed to revive downtown San Diego is set to be destroyed



https://www.curbed.com/2019/6/5/18652340/horton-plaza-san-diego-postmodern-jerde

[HurricaneHugo]

Does anybody know the status of Tacos El Gordo in Gaslamp and Roscoe's in Barrio Logan?

Both should be open by now but looks like something is holding them up?

[SDCAL]

Both should be open by now but looks like something is holding them up?

That sounds like the motto of SD development:D

Seriously, wtf is up with 7th/Market?

I know financing is difficult but for that prime of a location I would think they would have it by now.

It’s been 8 months since they resolved the lawsuit, and four months before that they were saying the lawsuit was near resolution. Wouldn’t they have been lining up the financing back then?

[Streamliner]

Settlement reached in California Theatre dispute
San Diego Union-Tribune
Philip Molnar
June 11, 2019
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/real-estate/story/2019-06-11/settlement-reached-in-california-theatre-dispute

Preservationists have struck a deal with a developer that intends to construct a multi-million dollar 41-story condominium tower on the site of the historic theater. The compromise will preserve more of the building’s exterior and lobby, as well as use original ornamentation.

...

Rising above the former theater, developers have decided on a 474-foot futuristic-style tower designed in partnership with San Diego-based Carrier Johnson + Culture. At 444 units, it would be the largest condominium complex in downtown’s history and rare in the apartment-heavy market.

The new design is expected to be reviewed by downtown planning agency Civic San Diego in July, and then reviewed by the city’s Planning Commission in August or September. The developer’s application said it hopes to start construction in March 2020 and complete it by September 2022.

...

Instead, the new plan calls for reconstructing the lobby in its entirety. Much of the exterior will be rebuilt to look exactly like it was, but the interior will be modern. Efforts will be made to reuse ornamentation of the building in the new structure. The western wall with a large yellow Caliente horse racing advertisement cannot survive the reconstruction, but the developer will attempt to recreate it.

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/aaf87fd/2147483647/strip/true/crop/704x822+0+0/resize/840x981!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fca-times.brightspotcdn.com%2Fa1%2F51%2Ff7f323af4ed59ae8f76eded13705%2Fcalifornia-theatre-main.png

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/732ad68/2147483647/strip/true/crop/737x491+0+91/resize/840x560!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fca-times.brightspotcdn.com%2Fa7%2F47%2F700d2e694782a0fc98f17a632c09%2Fcalifornia-theatre-1.png

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/0f4af42/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1021x681+234+0/resize/840x560!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fca-times.brightspotcdn.com%2Fe3%2Fa8%2Fbfda2f224a27a4607263aa26f1ff%2Fcalifornia-theatre-2.png

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/26e488d/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1677x1118+91+0/resize/840x560!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fca-times.brightspotcdn.com%2Fb7%2F38%2Fba94112046579bcfe6f68e35626d%2Fcalifornia-theatre-5.png

[HurricaneHugo]

That's is one sexy tower!

Nice that they were able to agree on a deal

[JerellO]

Omg that’s beautiful!! :D hopefully they keep the design as is

[IMBY]

It doesn't take much to make a building sexy, just put some curves in it!

[gillynova]

That looks amazing. I can't wait to visit San Diego again

[Rhodium]

That is a sweet looking building.

[HurricaneHugo]

Does anybody know what's going on at the NE corner of 17th and Imperial?

Saw a few excavators there

[Will O' Wisp]

Does anybody know what's going on at the NE corner of 17th and Imperial?

Saw a few excavators there

New homeless shelter I believe.

[mello]

So with the agreement between SOHO and the CA Theatre developers downtown now has 5 prominent towers approved yet not under construction: 7th/Market, Holland Group Courthouse Redev on Broadway, 1st and Beech, Alexan Little Italy, and CA Theatre.

5 being very confident construction will begin in this cycle and 1 being improbable let's gauge your confidence on each of these towers:

7th/Market: 5 Cisterra is solid financing will be announced shortly

Holland Group: 4 time table seems a bit longer due to it being Government land, and they announced construction wouldn't begin until middle of next year

1st and Beech: 3 , Who is this Willmark Company? Have they ever built a tower? This thing has been approved since mid 2016 so three years now. They did just get approval to add more units so maybe that is a sign they are serious and now will get financing soon.

Alexan: 5 Solid company they always follow through have already done one mid rise in East Village

CA Theatre: 3 Company seems really serious wants to be a catalyst on C street have hung in there and fought it out. Don't know if they have ever built a major tower like this before so they are newbies.

---------

In all these 5 towers will transform out Skyline along with Manchester Pac we will have a skyline to be proud of :cheers: Alexan and 1st Beech will bring height to a part of town that really needs it and CA Theatre also will add nice bulk to that section of towers on North East end of downtown.

Our skyline will have 3 solid clusters of towers: East Village, Waterfront, and Symphony Towers Core

[Streamliner]

The Port of San Diego authorized the project’s Coastal Development Permit Tuesday, a “momentous” step forward for the long-awaited development

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/communities/south-county/story/2019-06-19/chula-vistas-1-billion-hotel-and-convention-center-just-took-a-major-step-forward

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/0fe9479/2147483647/strip/true/crop/6000x3180+0+0/resize/840x445!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fca-times.brightspotcdn.com%2Fb6%2Fc9%2Fa96d7a0643efb2e6a9b60cc87055%2F20190618-rida-cvb-hotel.jpg

[Streamliner]

So with the agreement between SOHO and the CA Theatre developers downtown now has 5 prominent towers approved yet not under construction: 7th/Market, Holland Group Courthouse Redev on Broadway, 1st and Beech, Alexan Little Italy, and CA Theatre.

5 being very confident construction will begin in this cycle and 1 being improbable let's gauge your confidence on each of these towers:

7th/Market: 5 Cisterra is solid financing will be announced shortly

Holland Group: 4 time table seems a bit longer due to it being Government land, and they announced construction wouldn't begin until middle of next year

1st and Beech: 3 , Who is this Willmark Company? Have they ever built a tower? This thing has been approved since mid 2016 so three years now. They did just get approval to add more units so maybe that is a sign they are serious and now will get financing soon.

Alexan: 5 Solid company they always follow through have already done one mid rise in East Village

CA Theatre: 3 Company seems really serious wants to be a catalyst on C street have hung in there and fought it out. Don't know if they have ever built a major tower like this before so they are newbies.

---------

In all these 5 towers will transform out Skyline along with Manchester Pac we will have a skyline to be proud of :cheers: Alexan and 1st Beech will bring height to a part of town that really needs it and CA Theatre also will add nice bulk to that section of towers on North East end of downtown.

Our skyline will have 3 solid clusters of towers: East Village, Waterfront, and Symphony Towers Core

I'm not confident of anything until I see a building topped out. That said, I'm most optimistic about 7th/Market and Alexan. I'm also optimistic about CA Theatre, but I think I'm confusing optimism with excitement.

[SDCAL]

I'm not confident of anything until I see a building topped out. That said, I'm most optimistic about 7th/Market and Alexan. I'm also optimistic about CA Theatre, but I think I'm confusing optimism with excitement.

7th/Market is the development I’ve been anticipating most since it was announced in 2015. It’s taking sooooooo looooooooooooooooong it’s painful.

I remember when 7th/Market and Park/Market were announced around the same time, projections were that 7th/Market would be way ahead of Park/Market, but the opposite ended up happening.

I know it’s a more complicated site because it’s city owned, but still it’s a snails pace made even more frustrating by the fact that prime site had another huge project planned back in the early 2000s I think it was and it ended up being squashed in some big scandal. I’ve lived near there downtown for a decade and the entire decade that prime spot has been that nasty surface parking lot.

Anyway, enough of my bitching I just hope it actually gets built. I can’t really put a rating on it because I don’t know what the situation is with their financing. I’ve tried to scour the internet to get more information but I can’t find anything. Let’s hope they announce financing soon.

[spoonman]

The Port of San Diego authorized the project’s Coastal Development Permit Tuesday, a “momentous” step forward for the long-awaited development

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/communities/south-county/story/2019-06-19/chula-vistas-1-billion-hotel-and-convention-center-just-took-a-major-step-forward

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/0fe9479/2147483647/strip/true/crop/6000x3180+0+0/resize/840x445!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fca-times.brightspotcdn.com%2Fb6%2Fc9%2Fa96d7a0643efb2e6a9b60cc87055%2F20190618-rida-cvb-hotel.jpg

I thought this happened 3 years ago.

[mello]

Seriously i remember in 2016 the Port giving the go ahead to this project that is lagging hard as f**k and also remember a 14 floor residential project being approved there in 2015 i believe whatever happened to that. I have dreams for an NFL or MLS stadium going in there.

I think NFL owners will soon force Spanos to sell seeing what a debacle the dolts are in Los Scandolous. New ownership could build the next gen stadium of probably 52k seats on the bay in Chula, would be rad!

[spoonman]

Seriously i remember in 2016 the Port giving the go ahead to this project that is lagging hard as f**k and also remember a 14 floor residential project being approved there in 2015 i believe whatever happened to that. I have dreams for an NFL or MLS stadium going in there.

I think NFL owners will soon force Spanos to sell seeing what a debacle the dolts are in Los Scandolous. New ownership could build the next gen stadium of probably 52k seats on the bay in Chula, would be rad!

Mello, I was sort of following the bunglings of the Chargers shortly after their move, but stopped following that over a year ago. Are the Chargers still failing in LA? Would love to hear your commentary on this.

[staplesla]

A historically low number of homes were built in San Diego County in the first three months of 2019.

There were 1,180 residential permits pulled in the first quarter, a drop of 58 percent compared to the same time last year, said the Real Estate Research Council of Southern California. It was the most significant drop of the seven Southern California counties.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/real-estate/story/2019-06-12/homebuilding-tanks-in-san-diego-county

[Will O' Wisp]

A historically low number of homes were built in San Diego County in the first three months of 2019.

There were 1,180 residential permits pulled in the first quarter, a drop of 58 percent compared to the same time last year, said the Real Estate Research Council of Southern California. It was the most significant drop of the seven Southern California counties.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/real-estate/story/2019-06-12/homebuilding-tanks-in-san-diego-county

The article blames the lack of construction on the fact that rent prices aren't increasing at the same rates they did in previous years (in fact housing prices in SD are now growing slower than any other major metro (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/real-estate/story/2019-05-28/san-diego-home-price-gains-lowest-in-nation-for-4th-month)). So.... yay?

[HurricaneHugo]

First building at Manchester starting to rise

https://i.imgur.com/xCl9BmY.jpg?2

[JerellO]

First building at Manchester starting to rise

https://i.imgur.com/xCl9BmY.jpg?2

Oh wow.. that was fast.. I think? I’m so excited for this project, I can’t wait to see it finished and filled with people walking around, which will take time of course.

[mello]

I got word from someone who works at Manchester they are legally obligated to get the Navy building done in a certain time frame. My contact said they are focused on it first, will be topped out in August, then we will start to see the other towers rise.

SpoonMan: Regarding Chargers --

Here is the nail in coffin that it will never work in LA. As the team is fighting for a first round bye in the playoffs (Top 2 record in their conference) here is the attendance of their final 3 home games: 19k Broncos, 16k Phoenix Cardinals, 14K Baltimore Ravens.... Um hello your season is coming to a crescendo and you finish 12-4 and this is your attendance. All three games LOWER than the final Houston Oilers homegame in the Astrodome when everyone knew they were leaving!

Speak with Chargers "fans" here in SD County 80 to 90% of them will tell you that when Rivers retires they are done. They are just a team flapping in the wind with no fan base. And with the Raiders moving to LV there will now be 3 teams in LA. No they won't officially be the "Los Angeles Raiders" but being in Vegas they are defacto LA and everyone knows it.

There just isn't enough room for the Dolts in the LA Universe. The Lakers just signed Anthony Davis and will probably get another star either this year or next. Kawhi Leonard may go to Clippers etc. I see the NFL forcing a sale to an owner who will have to move them here and I think the Chula Bayfront would be a great place for a stadium next to the new Hotel/Convention Center there.

[Streamliner]

SpoonMan: Regarding Chargers --

Here is the nail in coffin that it will never work in LA. As the team is fighting for a first round bye in the playoffs (Top 2 record in their conference) here is the attendance of their final 3 home games: 19k Broncos, 16k Phoenix Cardinals, 14K Baltimore Ravens.... Um hello your season is coming to a crescendo and you finish 12-4 and this is your attendance. All three games LOWER than the final Houston Oilers homegame in the Astrodome when everyone knew they were leaving!

Speak with Chargers "fans" here in SD County 80 to 90% of them will tell you that when Rivers retires they are done. They are just a team flapping in the wind with no fan base. And with the Raiders moving to LV there will now be 3 teams in LA. No they won't officially be the "Los Angeles Raiders" but being in Vegas they are defacto LA and everyone knows it.

There just isn't enough room for the Dolts in the LA Universe. The Lakers just signed Anthony Davis and will probably get another star either this year or next. Kawhi Leonard may go to Clippers etc. I see the NFL forcing a sale to an owner who will have to move them here and I think the Chula Bayfront would be a great place for a stadium next to the new Hotel/Convention Center there.

Yeah the Chargers don't belong in L.A. With the Rams, Raiders, USC, and UCLA, Angelenos have enough football teams to root for before needing to get emotionally invested in "that old San Diego team".*

* not to mention the hometown teams supported by the million+ transplants.

[Nv_2897]

Pinnacle International is proposing a 415 Foot Mixed use Residential/Hotel Tower along Columbia and A street
Civic SD: https://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/2019-07_Drawings_06.21.19.pdf
https://i.imgur.com/JcAZB5W.png
https://i.imgur.com/e0taTYx.png


I love the design and think that this tower will be a nice skyline/gap filler

[Nv_2897]

Pinnacle International by the looks of it re-designed their pacific heights project and applied for permits
Civic SD: https://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/2019-08_Drawings_06.21.19.pdf
https://i.imgur.com/xaG1eec.png
https://i.imgur.com/negDVuk.png

[Nv_2897]

Another new proposed tower! Holland development group and AVRP Skyport are proposing Cedar and Kettner Tower a 336 foot mixed use tower right next to Ariel! I like the design and think it will expand the skyline a little instead of just stopping at Ariel.
Civic SD:https://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/2019-13_Drawings_05.23.19.pdf
https://i.imgur.com/x5WX3xR.png
https://i.imgur.com/0qe5AGP.png
https://i.imgur.com/FfDEBPr.png
https://i.imgur.com/NsfDwpQ.png

[mello]

Wow tons of new proposals. Pinnacles 11th and broadway project is moving super slowly though. Crane has been there for what 6 months at least and nothing is sticking up out of ground yet.

Isnt the Holland Project across from Ariel where the parking garage is? Will this surround it?

[Steadfast]

^
11th & Broadway is actually above ground. Went by the other day and saw them pouring cement for the ground floor support columns.

[Will O' Wisp]

There just isn't enough room for the Dolts in the LA Universe. The Lakers just signed Anthony Davis and will probably get another star either this year or next. Kawhi Leonard may go to Clippers etc. I see the NFL forcing a sale to an owner who will have to move them here and I think the Chula Bayfront would be a great place for a stadium next to the new Hotel/Convention Center there.

I agree with everything you're saying except I have my doubts that the Chargers are coming back after they fail in LA. Why would they come crawling back to a city that definitively refused to spend taxpayer dollars building a new stadium, when there are leagues of midwestern cities willing to spend millions subsidizing an NFL team just to gain some recognition of their existence from the outside world? And the return would be humiliating, even for a new owner, not to mention how poisonous the relationship between the Chargers and SD would probably be.

[mello]

Will: Its a long discussion but if gone about in the right way I believe at the time the City/County would have pitched in 150 to 175 million each. The Chargers rushed through their own initiative with no backing of the County/City and wanted to do it downtown, need to move busyard etc.

If they had gone with the Faulconer/Ron Roberts plan of doing the stadium at the Mission Valley site and Spanos did these four things I will list below I believe the voters would have approved a taxpayer contribution.

Spanos List: 1. Statement saying the Raiders combo stadium in Carson was misguided he is totally dedicated to SD.
2. Spend 8 million and put in a new HD Video Board in that giant square structure that housed the tiny scoreboard and did one of those LED wraps around the seating bowl.
3. Go permanently to powder blue uniforms that the fans had been asking for since what 2004? (90% of fanbase wanted this easily)
4. No Bosa holdout prior to the 2016 season and subsequent, vote that really soured the fanbase on Spanos.

If those simple 4 things had been done in 2016 leading up to a vote for a Mission Valley Stadium with half and half contribution from City and County I guarantee it would have gotten 50%. Even if he had done these 4 things for his downtown proposal it would have passed that threshold, remember it got 43%.

Regarding a move back to San Diego: Yes would be humiliating for Spanos but SD would say hey if you are paying for everything welcome back. A new owner would be viewed as a hero no humiliation there at all. Plus there is a lot of money to be made doing a mixed use development at the Chula Vista Bayfront or with the giant redo of the Sports Arena/Midway area that is coming.

These owners and potential owners see what Stan Kroenke is doing in Inglewood and would love to do something similar here. Obviously the Mission Valley site is probably not really doable now unless they came back quickly and did some kind of public private partnership with SDSU. I think if done right the Chula Bayfront or Rosecrans/Midway area could be a huge moneymaker for a new owner.

[brg654]

if i remember correctly, the chargers 2016 referendum included a tax increase and would have needed a 2/3 majority to pass.

[Will O' Wisp]

Mello: I have a slightly different perspective, being more of a casual NFL fan. To me specifics like uniform colors or LED screens aren't going to account for much, but rather the actions/motivations of the team and its owner when they present this new stadium to us. The Padres started their conversation with "What can we do for the city to get a new stadium?", and it shows deeply in their ultimate design. Petco Park was build in an underdeveloped area as a vehicle to encourage building around it, integrating open space and street facing concessionaires that encourage visitors to explore the surrounding blocks. Judging by the skyscrapers now surrounding the stadium it worked, but the Padres took on the very real risk of ending up with an expensive stadium in a run down part of the city that leaked valuable concession money like a sieve. Doing all that got a lot of people not even that interested in baseball, myself included, to vote that stadium.

The Chargers started and ended their conversation with "Give us what we want or we'll leave". They demanded the opportunity to take advantage of Petco Park's hard work with a huge stadium in the middle of that now rapidly developing area, and one that was utterly walled off to the outside so they could personally squeeze every last cent of concessions out of their attendees. The Chargers weren't willing to give their city anything back, and when confronted on it their response was to threaten us like our existence as one of the nation's top tourism hotspots was utterly dependent on maintaining a middle-of-the-road NFL team. San Diego called their bluff and to avoid utter humiliation they were forced to leave town.

Note I keep saying "the Chargers" and not Dean Spanos. Like it or not, the Charger name has been rubbed all over this mess in a way that can't be erased with a simple change of ownership. Now I doubt even with 50/50 cost sharing and a promise to redevelop an underutilized area would gain approval with the voters (and imo neither the CV Bayfront or Rose/Midway particularly need a stadium rn to develop). And so for all their trouble the most likely outcome for a Charger return to SD is them paying full price for a stadium in a worse location than they already had, surrounded by a city that's going to view any request for financial assistance as a rich business crankily demanding government handouts because of our past experience with them. Considering that no NFL team was willing to touch America's second largest media market (LA) for over two decades a similar series of events in the 90s, the Chargers crawling back anytime soon would be seen as them failing Spanos or no.

brg: I recall something about there being a legal question if the proposition needed 1/2 or 2/3s voter approval, but it became a moot point after it lost hard enough at the ballot box that it would have failed either way.

[IconRPCV]

I think SD's time with the NFL has past, and we should focus on getting a new arena built downtown next to PETCO and obtaining an NHL team. This would give us almost 365 days a year of professional sports that would not conflict with each other much. I think this is something SD can support well. Plus a PETCO adjacent arena could be worked to supplement the convention center, imagine convention halls connecting the two underground, then we wold have this contiguous space that huge conventions need; kill two birds with one stone!

[CaliNative]

I think SD's time with the NFL has past, and we should focus on getting a new arena built downtown next to PETCO and obtaining an NHL team. This would give us almost 365 days a year of professional sports that would not conflict with each other much. I think this is something SD can support well. Plus a PETCO adjacent arena could be worked to supplement the convention center, imagine convention halls connecting the two underground, then we wold have this contiguous space that huge conventions need; kill two birds with one stone!

I think a new arena could also land an NBA team, either expansion or relocation. San Diego metro is bigger than many NBA cities. If Sacramento and Portland have NBA teams, surely much larger SD should. The arena would probably require some kind of guarantee of teams to get built, and the teams would have to chip in. Don't expect the public would fund it, although the convention center might chip in since a large arena might be useful in attracting large gatherings, concerts and the like.

[sixonenine]

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/story/2019-05-02/what-should-the-navy-do-with-spawar-site-usd-students-have-a-winning-plan

[Nerv]

Just an open question not intended to piss on anyone’s favorite sport but the NFL, MLB and the NBA have all had issues of declining interest in the last few years. None of the three is currently looking like they will have a big upswing in interest. There’s a variety of reasons for this but the reason I bring it up is it seems that building anything for a sports franchise is only going to get more difficult if the “value” of having a sports team is really kind of dropping. Not a sky is falling comment that all 3 will disappear but if you follow sports you know all 3 are having variable interest issues which is a new wrinkle in our heavy social media based society. Things are changing...

[Will O' Wisp]

Just an open question not intended to piss on anyone’s favorite sport but the NFL, MLB and the NBA have all had issues of declining interest in the last few years. None of the three is currently looking like they will have a big upswing in interest. There’s a variety of reasons for this but the reason I bring it up is it seems that building anything for a sports franchise is only going to get more difficult if the “value” of having a sports team is really kind of dropping. Not a sky is falling comment that all 3 will disappear but if you follow sports you know all 3 are having variable interest issues which is a new wrinkle in our heavy social media based society. Things are changing...

These days a lot of cities are reexamining the value of having a professional sports team. When you do the math they oftentimes end up costing more money to their host cities than they earn.

From the downtown San Diego perspective especially, it's not very clear what building another stadium in the East Village would bring that Petco Park hasn't already given us or San Diego already innately has. We're already one of the top tourist destinations in the nation, our hospitality industry is booming, and there are a variety of preexisting event venues large and small in downtown. Petco Park host events over 300 days a year, has a ton of features for non-fans like restaurants and a (regular) park, and since it was built the East Village has absolutely no issues finding development dollars. Is it worth it to replace 2-4 of our limited number of potential skyscrapers with a gigantic, walled off, midrise superblock (as every stadium design I've seen proposed seems to consist of). And add on the fact that it will have to start cannibalizing from other potential event venues if it's going to be used more than a 1/3rd of the year, when we're still paying off the loans for Petco.

[HurricaneHugo]

We need a new arena anyways, Sports Arena is a dump and Viejas is too small.

I feel like we miss out on bigger artists/shows stopping by because of it.

[Will O' Wisp]

$500M pledged to bring transit, major road improvements by San Diego airport — with help from airlines (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/story/2019-07-02/500m-pledged-to-bring-transit-major-road-improvements-to-san-diego-airport-with-help-from-airlines)


In a move to ease access to the San Diego airport, more than a half-billion dollars has been pledged toward future transportation projects, which could include high-speed transit options like a people mover or trolley extension.

The funding commitment, announced Tuesday, is contained within a new 10-year agreement between the San Diego County Regional Airport Authority and its airline partners, from Southwest and Alaska airlines to United, American and Delta. The agreement, which establishes the various fees the airlines pay to help fund airport operations, calls for an increase in those levies, which can include landing fees and rents for terminal space.

Over the course of the next 10 years, the per passenger fee all airlines pay to the Airport Authority will double, officials say.

While it is not known yet which transit or roadway projects would qualify for the funding, airport officials say the financial contribution from the airlines now makes it possible to set aside a sizable chunk of money to help pay for costly transportation improvements. Easier access to the airport via transit and added roadways will be needed as part of a planned $3 billion redevelopment of the airport that includes overhauling the aging Terminal 1.

“Airline pre-approval for spending of this nature and of this magnitude really demonstrates our airline partners’ understanding of the importance of transportation and transit improvements to the community,” said Airport Authority CEO Kim Becker.” While specific improvements are still being developed and have not yet been approved, the agreement ensures there will be substantial funding should the Airport Authority and our regional partners determine what’s best.”

The more than $500 million funding pledge will be shared by the airlines and the Airport Authority, which also gets revenues from concessions, parking and rental car fees.

The new airline pact, which follows more than a year of negotiations, marks a major turning point from nearly a year ago when multiple regional agencies roundly criticized the Airport Authority for doing little to address the increased traffic congestion that is expected as passenger volumes continue to grow.

“I do think that this is a major step. People were fighting with each other a year ago and now talking about putting money behind a regional solution,” said Hasan Ikhrata, chief executive of the San Diego Association of Governments. “It’s good to plan but when you allocate money, that means you’re serious.”

News of the funding comes as a group of elected leaders and transportation officials from around the county continue to discuss various options for creating a direct transit connection to the airport. The impetus for the meetings over the last several months is the Airport Authority’s intent to significantly expand the aging Terminal 1.

The project, long a priority for the airlines, involves constructing an entirely new building to replace the existing 19 gates and subsequently demolishing the existing terminal and adding 11 more gates.

Even as local leaders are getting closer to narrowing options for bringing a direct mass transit connection to Lindbergh Field, airport officials are unable to say how much of the more than $500 million contribution will actually go to transit. That’s because it’s still unknown which projects will find favor with all the regional agencies.

What airport leaders will say is that $350 million can be spent for transportation projects both off airport property and on site, which could include a new transit station at the airport, a people mover or trolley extension, or a contribution toward a grand central station.

Any money, however, spent on such transportation improvements not on airport property would be contingent on contributions from other regional agencies like the San Diego Association of Governments, the Port of San Diego, the Metropolitan Transit System and the city of San Diego.

San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer, who has been pushing for transit to the airport, said he wants to make sure that people can ultimately reach the airport’s two terminals via the San Diego Trolley.

“It’s no secret that getting to the airport by public transit has not been working very well for decades,” Faulconer said during a news conference to announce the airline agreement. “I often joke that you can see the airport from the trolley and you can wave to it as you go by but it hasn’t been connected.”

Faulconer said that with the new funding, he now believes that “we will create a transportation hub to finally connect the trolley to the airport. It’s long overdue.”

Transportation planners are currently testing four airport transit options to determine which is the most cost effective, and also the most likely to be used by travelers. A recommendation is expected by August.

Three of the four options envision a people mover — either underground or largely street-level — that would connect with a central transit center. Two sites for a grand central station are proposed: a 72-acre Navy site known, until recently, as SPAWAR, and the Intermodal Transportation Center, a long-planned transit hub that would be located slightly closer to the airport. There are currently no approved — or funded — plans for such a transit center.

A fourth option, an extension of the San Diego Trolley to the airport, would generally tie into the existing convention center station to the south and Old Town station to the north, with a stop at the Santa Fe Depot.

As much as the Airport Authority funding will help defray the cost, the price tag for a direct transit connection could potentially reach billions of dollars and take years to implement.

Also announced as part of the new airline agreement is $165 million that could potentially be used for an already planned inbound roadway adjacent to Harbor Drive that would connect Laurel Street to the airport. Plans for the roadway, which would be free of traffic lights, also contemplate reserving right-of-way for future outbound lanes and is expected to remove 45,000 cars per day from Harbor Drive.

The new road could also free up space on Harbor Drive for potential rapid bus or light rail transit.


Don't say we never did anything for ya

[mello]

^^^ All this talk is great but when are we going to see shovels in the dirt for the Terminal One redo/Expansion?? It is almost 2020 and we have half our airport operating out of a third world terminal. Too much back and forth on "what should we do about transit" holding up the start of this project.

Will O: Back to last page's discussion, I don't think anyone here is advocating for a giant stadium a la the Spanos proposal of 2016. We want to see a state of the art arena like what the Sacramento Kings just got built in the parking lot behind Petco and the new Park 12 project. That is the perfect spot for it.

When Joseph Tsai wants to build his Ali Baba North American headquarters here he can do it on the MTS busyard site and adjacent parcels. Like Hugo said our Arena situation is embarrassing and lets face it downtown can be a bit dead from October through April and an NHL and or NBA team would give us something to do during those months and wouldn't compete with Padres schedule at all.

[Will O' Wisp]

^^^ All this talk is great but when are we going to see shovels in the dirt for the Terminal One redo/Expansion?? It is almost 2020 and we have half our airport operating out of a third world terminal. Too much back and forth on "what should we do about transit" holding up the start of this project.

VERY rough timeline. Don't blame me if schedule slip throws this all out of whack.

Summer 2019: Final selection of airport transit connection
Winter 2019: Terminal 1 EIR (with transit connections) released for public comment
Summer 2020: Terminal 1 EIR certified and approved by Airport Authority
Winter 2020: Terminal 1 EIR approved by Coastal Commission, construction contracts put out to bid
Spring 2021: Construction begins on Terminal 1
2023-24: Construction on Terminal 1 complete


Plans on the San Diego Grand Central are fuzzier, mainly due to SANDAG's shaky funding and internal disputes over their new regional plan's scale.

Will O: Back to last page's discussion, I don't think anyone here is advocating for a giant stadium a la the Spanos proposal of 2016. We want to see a state of the art arena like what the Sacramento Kings just got built in the parking lot behind Petco and the new Park 12 project. That is the perfect spot for it.

When Joseph Tsai wants to build his Ali Baba North American headquarters here he can do it on the MTS busyard site and adjacent parcels. Like Hugo said our Arena situation is embarrassing and lets face it downtown can be a bit dead from October through April and an NHL and or NBA team would give us something to do during those months and wouldn't compete with Padres schedule at all.

There's a fault line that goes directly though that lot, which means you couldn't fit a stadium without taking at least part of the bus yards. That's why all the renderings of the Chargers' stadium were shoved off to the side like that. And when you see what the area could look like instead...

https://sandiego.urbdezine.com/files/2016/08/image-21.jpeg

...do we really need to build another stadium in Downtown when Chula Vista and Midway are also viable options?

[Steadfast]

I agree... A downtown arena/stadium would be an epic waste of prime residential or commercial/office space.
The backside of Petco might be the only real exception to that IMO. That parcel is pretty isolated from downtown...

[Will O' Wisp]

I agree... A downtown arena/stadium would be an epic waste of prime residential or commercial/office space.
The backside of Petco might be the only real exception to that IMO. That parcel is pretty isolated from downtown...

iirc that area is already predesignated for high rise residential. MTS says they're going to build 500 units on 1.5-2 acres at the 12th and Imperial Station, pretty sure that's the spot they're talking about.

[Nv_2897]

The Navy Headquarters is starting to make a presence on the skyline

https://i.imgur.com/uKmOcNO.png

Credit to Skyline Webcams

[Northparkwizard]

Columbia & A drawings.
(http://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Pinnacle-Columbia-A-Drawings_06.28.19.pdf)https://i.imgur.com/yuicZWj.png

13th & F drawings.
(http://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/13th-F-Drawings-Drawings_06.20.19.pdf)https://i.imgur.com/OtBnmVY.png

[Steadfast]

Columbia & A is a beast!

[Will O' Wisp]

https://i.imgur.com/ju9WcbU.jpg

Recent post on reddit from superninjahype (https://www.reddit.com/user/Superninjahype/)

[Streamliner]

Recent post on reddit from superninjahype (https://www.reddit.com/user/Superninjahype/)

Great pic! Pacific Gate is my favorite new tower. It looks like a rendering here.

[Will O' Wisp]

Great pic! Pacific Gate is my favorite new tower. It looks like a rendering here.

It almost makes me sad that it'll be completely surrounded by fellow high rises after MPG, the 2nd Bosa tower, and the office dept replacement are finished.

Almost... :skyscraper:

[NYC2ATX]

Pacific Gateway is honestly one of my favorite projects going up in America right now. For both the excellent way in which it will enhance and define the San Diego waterfront, and the fabulous distillation of Art Deco that incorporates pink stone (I hope?) and gradually decreases in height towards the water. San Diego has one of the world's great waterfronts :tup:

[SDCAL]

Are the other buildings besides the Navy headquarters still on time for being built?

The Manchester PG website stopped posting updates in 2019, it looks like the last update was last fall. The website is also still extremely generic with no specifics on tenants. When you get to the point where construction begins, isn’t there usually announcement on which hotels/businesses/retail will be going in?

Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but something seems kind of “off” with the project and the communication from Manchester.

[staplesla]

Are the other buildings besides the Navy headquarters still on time for being built?

The Manchester PG website stopped posting updates in 2019, it looks like the last update was last fall. The website is also still extremely generic with no specifics on tenants. When you get to the point where construction begins, isn’t there usually announcement on which hotels/businesses/retail will be going in?

Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but something seems kind of “off” with the project and the communication from Manchester.

I just called the number on their website to inquire about the timeline. I was told, “We are focused on completing the Navy building and that is all we are prepared to comment on at this time.” So I said, “so is the rest of the project on hold?”. The lady told me to have a great weekend and she hung up. :shrug:

[SDCAL]

I just called the number on their website to inquire about the timeline. I was told, “We are focused on completing the Navy building and that is all we are prepared to comment on at this time.” So I pressed about the other buildings and the lady told me to have a great weekend and she hung up. :shrug:

Wow. So we’ll get one Navy building and a bunch of empty lots - or worse surface parking lots - there?

The good thing about the project is the buildings were supposed to be similar in design. If they sell parts off I wonder if we’ll get a mosh-mash. It’s a shame since that’s the most valuable undeveloped waterfront property on the west coast.

Thanks for investigating!!

[Will O' Wisp]

Wow. So we’ll get one Navy building and a bunch of empty lots - or worse surface parking lots - there?

The good thing about the project is the buildings were supposed to be similar in design. If they sell parts off I wonder if we’ll get a mosh-mash. It’s a shame since that’s the most valuable undeveloped waterfront property on the west coast.

Thanks for investigating!!

Or, you know, the minimum wage employee they've got answering the phones is only allowed to use that one soundbite. And she hung up after someone kept badgering her for answers she's not allowed to give, and probably doesn't even know herself.

No offense to you staplesla, but pressuring someone after they've already told you "No Comment" is kind of a jerk move.

This honestly doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know. MPG has said they're focusing on finishing the Navy building atm, and they haven't said when they're going to start on the rest. That could mean just about anything, including that construction is progressing normally and MPG sees no reason to give potential rivals any more info than they need to.

[Boatguy619]

Delete

[SDCAL]

Or, you know, the minimum wage employee they've got answering the phones is only allowed to use that one soundbite. And she hung up after someone kept badgering her for answers she's not allowed to give, and probably doesn't even know herself.

No offense to you staplesla, but pressuring someone after they've already told you "No Comment" is kind of a jerk move.

This honestly doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know. MPG has said they're focusing on finishing the Navy building atm, and they haven't said when they're going to start on the rest. That could mean just about anything, including that construction is progressing normally and MPG sees no reason to give potential rivals any more info than they need to.

You’re right, it could mean anything. But the fact they haven’t named a single tenant except the military doesn’t look good considering the timelines they presented. They said a lot of the construction was going to happen simultaneously and now they’ve changed course, so there has to be some reason for that. Projects announce timelines and tenants all the time, suggesting they are afraid of “rivals” and are secretly progressing normally but afraid to tell anyone they are on time seems extremely unlikely.

These are the timelines they presented when they broke ground:

Block 1A (Open space and waterfront plaza): 2022
Block 1B (Boutique Hotel, Office and Retail): 2021
Block 2A/B (Convention Hotel and Retail): 2021
Block 3A (Office and Retail): 2020
Block 3B (Navy General Administration Building): 2020
Block 4A/B (Office and Retail): 2021

There’s no way those can be met if they are just focusing on completing the Navy HQ for the foreseeable future.

If they had financing and tenants, I think they’d be moving forward with these other things now.

[staplesla]

Or, you know, the minimum wage employee they've got answering the phones is only allowed to use that one soundbite. And she hung up after someone kept badgering her for answers she's not allowed to give, and probably doesn't even know herself.

No offense to you staplesla, but pressuring someone after they've already told you "No Comment" is kind of a jerk move.

I’m not going to hypothesize on what her response means. But please don’t assume I’m naive enough to speak to a receptionist, nor am I one to “badger” someone. I spoke with Stephanie Brown, VP of Communications for Manchester Financial Group.

[staplesla]

A drastic remodel of the California Theatre sailed through its first government review, raising the likelihood it will be rapidly approved.

The design review committee of Civic San Diego, downtown’s planning agency, gave gushing reviews of the project Wednesday, unanimously approving it to move forward.

At nearly 100 years old, the California Theatre building has been falling apart for years but efforts to remake the site had been thwarted by preservationists. After striking a deal with preservation group Save Our Heritage Organisation, the developer is moving to quickly get approvals by the fall and begin construction by October 2020.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/real-estate/story/2019-07-10/california-theatre-remodel-sails-through-first-government-review