SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[IconRPCV]

I have family in Santa Cruz, LA, and Palm Springs who are doctors and nurses and in all three spots, they say they are far under capacity. Surely it's different in some of the hot spot areas but from their perspectives, there seems to be some disconnect between what's being reported and what's actually happening.

I just love how even in this insane coronavirus situation American Society spins down partisan lines, Republicans blaming the media and Democrats blaming the current administration.

[HurricaneHugo]

Measure C is not dead yet?

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/story/2020-04-08/san-diegos-hotel-tax-hike-measure-lost-or-did-it

[eburress]

I just love how even in this insane coronavirus situation American Society spins down partisan lines, Republicans blaming the media and Democrats blaming the current administration.

I don't know if it makes me a moderate but I think both the media AND administration (US government, WHO, CDC, etc...) have screwed up aspects of this situation!

[Dariusb]

Not necessarily. My family in Oklahoma City and Abilene, Texas say it’s business as normal there. Everyone thinks it’s a hoax or whatnot.

Right. I'm in Killeen Tx but only essential businesses are open. I don't understand those who treat this as a joke. Some preacher in Louisiana is still proceeding with church services even though the state has ordered against it saying God will keep them safe. Nothing wrong with prayer but people should use common sense as well. Not trying to take things off topic but anyway, you all stay safe out there!

[mello]

Comic Con cancelled! :uhh: Crushing death blow to SD economy! Now UT is reporting that the Terminal 1 expansion could be delayed due to massively low revenues coming in!!! Reports of recent Mexican and Guatemalan immigrants going back home because they see that all the low end cleaning, kitchen, etc jobs are drying up and never coming back :( Wow this is Great Depression 2.0 my friends batten down the hatches. BUY physical GOLD AND SILVER plus mining stocks now! Inflation will be coming by next year due to unprecedented money printing. Fed has backed up the truck they will be buying everything.

[HurricaneHugo]

Faulconer opening up parks.

Should be fine...we're not Florida

[mello]

:deadthread:

Looks like that Chula Vista bayfront 1200 to 1600 room hotel and almost 400k sq. feet of convention space is ..... Killed once again due to economic crash. Poor Chula Vista and Gaylord. What took you guys so long. Let's wait until the very end of the longest economic cycle ever to finally think about starting construction. Where were you in 2014, 15, 16... Bueller??? :shrug: Should have got that sucker going years ago.

[ChargerFan]

Been logging on to this page since I was a kid, don't judge me for my profile name, I made it before the relocation.

Mid Coast Trolley extension has made great progress. False work along the 5 corridor into UTC has been almost entirely removed, electrical poles are being installed, great to see the project wrapping up. Only $200M per mile (don't do the math per foot).

Two more cranes are up in UTC. 1 is for Garden Communities on the corner of Genesee and La Jolla Village Drive, the other I believe is La Jolla Commons 3. I haven't been to work in a few weeks but I can see the cranes from Torrey Hills.

[HurricaneHugo]

Two more cranes are up in UTC. 1 is for Garden Communities on the corner of Genesee and La Jolla Village Drive, the other I believe is La Jolla Commons 3. I haven't been to work in a few weeks but I can see the cranes from Torrey Hills.

How tall are those? Renderings?

Either way, good that they're still going strong!

I was looking forward for the trolley extension but now im not sure if I ever want to take public transportation again. :yuck:

[JerellO]

So what’s going on with Pacific/Manchester Gateway?? Is the Navy building complete?? And when will they start on the other buildings?

[HurricaneHugo]

So what’s going on with Pacific/Manchester Gateway?? Is the Navy building complete?? And when will they start on the other buildings?

I believe I read earlier in this thread that they're only building the first/Navy building and then waiting for something else.:shrug:

[HurricaneHugo]

Looking down E street.

https://i.imgur.com/4YZ50EN.jpg

[applejacks]

What are the two buildings under construction?

Great shot!

[Nv_2897]

I believe I read earlier in this thread that they're only building the first/Navy building and then waiting for something else.:shrug:

I heard from an article that they were waiting to finish the navy building to complete sometime in 2020 and then the former navy building would be demolished and the rest of the project would be in full swing by 2021 but with the corona virus idk if the rest of the project will go forward :shrug:

[Nv_2897]

What are the two buildings under construction?

Great shot!

The big tower is Bosa's Broadway Block and the other tower is part of a twin tower project by Pinnacle development. According to @realportfolio the second tower is scheduled to break ground sometime around this year.

Bosa:https://i.imgur.com/O8FVQ9Q.png
Pinnacle:https://i.imgur.com/k9Oftmg.png

[Nv_2897]

Found a cool 3d model/edit on instagram of how a 700-800 footer would look placed in the skyline.
Credit to @altitude_cam for these awesome edits

https://i.imgur.com/BFiJdFG.png
https://i.imgur.com/ehuQUpu.png

[eburress]

^ It'd look pretty darned good! If only...

[mello]

Who is this @realportfolio guy? Have you asked him or does he have any comment on 7th/Market Cisterra project. Thanks

[SDCAL]

Found a cool 3d model/edit on instagram of how a 700-800 footer would look placed in the skyline.
Credit to @altitude_cam for these awesome edits

https://i.imgur.com/BFiJdFG.png
https://i.imgur.com/ehuQUpu.png

That look nice! We have the density, it shows how even one super-tall could really transform the skyline and break-up the plateau effect.

[SDCAL]

Who is this @realportfolio guy? Have you asked him or does he have any comment on 7th/Market Cisterra project. Thanks

The last I heard pre-COVID-19 was that they were still securing funding and looking to break ground end of this year.

I haven’t heard anything since then but I can’t imagine they would be moving forward with how things are now. We don’t know how travel and tourism is going to look for the next 5 or more years after this mess, I can’t see a project like that moving forward. Maybe if they converted to condos/offices it could be salvaged in a couple years? I don’t know, it’s really sad that one couldn’t break ground before this shitstorm

[SDCAL]

So what’s going on with Pacific/Manchester Gateway?? Is the Navy building complete?? And when will they start on the other buildings?

Nothing to do with COVID-19. Manchester had financing problems crop-up before the pandemic had started and shelved everything but the navy building. It was reported he was trying to offload the rest of the project. To be honest, he kind of got lucky with the timing because the pandemic would have halted it anyway and now that’s the perceived reason, but the truth is Manchester’s company f’d that project up before this crisis hit and it likely wouldn’t have moved forward anyway unless someone was willing to bail it out and keep the same plans.

[SDfan]

I'm not crying over the Manchester proposal being dead. That project in its final iteration of watered down art deco meets UTC corporate plaza made me cringe. Hopefully it gets scooped by someone who can hire a moderately reputable architect. I hope that asymmetrical office tower never sees the light of day.

[mello]

The last I heard pre-COVID-19 was that they were still securing funding and looking to break ground end of this year.


Hmm well the other previously city owned project (old crap courthouse on Broadway) has broken ground. So 12th/Market check, courthouse good to go, but Cisterra the most rock solid of all projects we thought 3 years ago still has yet to break ground.

The Ritz isn't really the main part of that project though it wasn't even 200 rooms, just 160 I think. It was mainly an office space and residential deal.

[Sam Flood]

Broadway Block
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49917863796_5be5cfae27_h.jpg
Pinnacle 11th and Broadway

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49917864476_56ddc19b58_h.jpg


Courthouse Demo

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49917865311_7b359ba4de_b.jpg

[Will O' Wisp]

Broadway Block
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49917863796_5be5cfae27_h.jpg
Pinnacle 11th and Broadway


I can't get over how prodigiously beefy this building looks in person. Somehow it just doesn't come across in pictures.

[SDfan]

I can't get over how prodigiously beefy this building looks in person. Somehow it just doesn't come across in pictures.

I know! Different angles reveal different perspectives. From Golden Hill it looks somewhat slim and punctuating, but from the 1-5 or on Broadway it's a chunker lol.

[JerellO]

I can't get over how prodigiously beefy this building looks in person. Somehow it just doesn't come across in pictures.

It definitely makes its presence known. I turned the corner while walking and bam whips out in front of my face. Definitely thicker in person and very imposing compared to the other smaller and stubbier ones around it. I’ve noticed buildings have that effect around tall ones. Like the Empire Stage Building, as tall as it is, the surrounding structures are way shorter, almost highlighting ESB’s already soaring height.

[HurricaneHugo]

Downtown San Diego from the 94

https://i.imgur.com/zEYErYt.jpg

[mello]

:cheers:

Wow that Vantage point from 94 needs 7th and Market so badly.... Please break ground. With Street Lights, Pinnacle Twins at 11th and Broadway, BOSA block, and crossing fingers for Cisterra project that angle would actually be respectable.

[JerellO]

How do you guys feel about the proposed gondola going up and down harbor dr? IMO it’s obstructing to the open bay. I would rather much prefer it go up and down pacific highway so that it’s somewhat hidden but close to the water and it’ll also connect with Santa Fe depot.

https://www.kusi.com/proposed-plan-to-open-gondola-running-from-balboa-park-to-downtown-san-diego/

[mello]

The full block 7 floor apartment project right behind the police headquarters has broken ground. I see the excavating equipment is out and they are digging.

Street Lights has not I repeat not broken ground folks. 29 floor tower at 14th and F has only been cleared of whatever structure was on the lot. No digging has taken place at all and the site is void of any construction equipment. So.... false start on that project. Hopefully we see diggers going there soon.

-----

Gondola, well we need something to mix it up. Never got a ferris wheel like Seattle did lol. It might look a little junky on Harbor but if its on Pac Hwy all the people in the myriad of BOSA towers will complain and try to block it :shrug:

[HurricaneHugo]

At this point I feel like we just need to build something.

So if the Gondola is our only option, then screw it, get it built

[eburress]

How do you guys feel about the proposed gondola going up and down harbor dr? IMO it’s obstructing to the open bay. I would rather much prefer it go up and down pacific highway so that it’s somewhat hidden but close to the water and it’ll also connect with Santa Fe depot.

https://www.kusi.com/proposed-plan-to-open-gondola-running-from-balboa-park-to-downtown-san-diego/

I'd much rather see a traditional streetcar run through there.

[NYC2ATX]

Sort of a random inquiry, but are there any other good news sources, blog sites, forums, etc. with decent coverage of San Diego? I feel like I've had trouble finding anything and even subforums on other sites are dead.

I am considering relocating there from the East Coast so I would love to get some more insight! :tup:

[superfishy]

Sort of a random inquiry, but are there any other good news sources, blog sites, forums, etc. with decent coverage of San Diego? I feel like I've had trouble finding anything and even subforums on other sites are dead.

I am considering relocating there from the East Coast so I would love to get some more insight! :tup:

The San Diego subreddit does a pretty good job of covering a variety of topics if you don't mind the occasional meme or sunset pic.
https://www.reddit.com/r/sandiego/

[SDfan]

New high-rise breaking ground in UTC. Nothing remarkable design or height wise, but did not see this one coming.

https://timesofsandiego.com/business/2020/06/01/17-story-senior-living-tower-planned-for-nobel-drive-in-golden-triangle/

[Will O' Wisp]

http://sunnycv.com/steve/maps/sd/2718a.jpg

For a change of pace, how about this map of downtown circa 1876. I just love all the detail (http://sunnycv.com/steve/maps/sd/2718bg.jpg). (warning: large image)

The city is depicted from Balboa Park, and for reference the view to very similar to what you see today while coming into land at the airport. As far as I can tell it was commissioned to draw up support for extending the southern transcontinental railroad to the harbor, which would have made San Diego the port of entry for all of southern California. Unfortunately geography dictated the railroad swing north to Los Angeles instead, which lead to LA becoming the region's commercial hub instead.

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/sandiegomagazine.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/c3/8c393357-efa2-5e52-9104-98b8af63475a/5e18a28686f6d.image.jpg

Here's a photograph taken in that same year. The pier terminated near the trolley station in the Gaslamp District, everything beyond was dredged out of the harbor in later years.

[JerellO]

http://sunnycv.com/steve/maps/sd/2718a.jpg

For a change of pace, how about this map of downtown circa 1876. I just love all the detail (http://sunnycv.com/steve/maps/sd/2718bg.jpg). (warning: large image)

The city is depicted from Balboa Park, and for reference the view to very similar to what you see today while coming into land at the airport. As far as I can tell it was commissioned to draw up support for extending the southern transcontinental railroad to the harbor, which would have made San Diego the port of entry for all of southern California. Unfortunately geography dictated the railroad swing north to Los Angeles instead, which lead to LA becoming the region's commercial hub instead.

I’ve read that it was due to city officials in San Francisco fearing San Diego’s harbor rivaling their own and didn’t want SD to compete with SF. So being the premier city at the time, they decided on the small cow town Los Angeles with no competing harbor back then to be the terminus of the railroad. As Los Angeles boomed throughout the years especially with Hollywood attracting stars, the city extended city limits all the way to San Pedro in order to have its own harbor and port. By around the 1920s, Los Angeles had completely taken over San Francisco and the entire west coast as the premier city.

[Jordan de California]

I’ve read that it was due to city officials in San Francisco fearing San Diego’s harbor rivaling their own and didn’t want SD to compete with SF. So being the premier city at the time, they decided on the small cow town Los Angeles with no competing harbor back then to be the terminus of the railroad. As Los Angeles boomed throughout the years especially with Hollywood attracting stars, the city extended city limits all the way to San Pedro in order to have its own harbor and port. By around the 1920s, Los Angeles had completely taken over San Francisco and the entire west coast as the premier city.

Fascinating!

As an L.A. region native, I think it would have all been a lot nicer-looking for the L.A. Basin to have remained smaller and more agricultural for a longer time. It could have been like the Salinas Valley and Monterey Bay, while y'all down in San Diego enjoyed all the heavy industry and supertall skyscrapers.

Oh, well. That said, I love my homeland.

[Drcastro]

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/sandiegomagazine.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/c3/8c393357-efa2-5e52-9104-98b8af63475a/5e18a28686f6d.image.jpg

Here's a photograph taken in that same year. The pier terminated near the trolley station in the Gaslamp District, everything beyond was dredged out of the harbor in later years.

Isn’t “everything beyond” what became North Island and Coronado? Not that a lot of dredging didn’t happen, I’m sure :)

[Will O' Wisp]

I’ve read that it was due to city officials in San Francisco fearing San Diego’s harbor rivaling their own and didn’t want SD to compete with SF. So being the premier city at the time, they decided on the small cow town Los Angeles with no competing harbor back then to be the terminus of the railroad. As Los Angeles boomed throughout the years especially with Hollywood attracting stars, the city extended city limits all the way to San Pedro in order to have its own harbor and port. By around the 1920s, Los Angeles had completely taken over San Francisco and the entire west coast as the premier city.

I've read that as well, although there's far more historical accounts of San Diego city officials claiming impropriety than evidence of SF actually doing anything. I personally tend towards believing it a 19th century conspiracy theory. Certainly one can argue that in sunny Southern California, the economic advantages of a natural harbor well protected from storms are lesser than one that saves several days of overland transport by virtue of being closer to the mountain passes most cargo must eventually travel through.

Isn’t “everything beyond” what became North Island and Coronado? Not that a lot of dredging didn’t happen, I’m sure :)

I must have misspoken, haha. In that picture, the land you see on the other side of the harbor is indeed Coronado, North Island, and the Silver Strand. But the base of the pier is right about here (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fifth+Ave+%26+E+Harbor+Dr,+San+Diego,+CA+92101/@32.7069367,-117.1626887,1052m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x80d9535a8a512d3f:0x77dda91c071ad6e5!8m2!3d32.7069367!4d-117.1605). Everything you see closer to the harbor than that, the convention center, all the hotels, the marina park, all of that land was dredged out of the bay. If you zoom out, the original shoreline of downtown San Diego followed Harbor Dr until it intersects with PCH, then follows PCH until it splits into Barnett Ave north of the MCRD.

And yes, that area includes the entirety of the MCRD and the airport. Here's (https://i.redd.it/i1nu2ug5m5351.jpg) comparison between a 1927 picture and today that illustrates just how much the shoreline was altered. (credit to u/xenonsupra (https://www.reddit.com/user/xenonsupra/) for the image)

[Nv_2897]

Stockdale has begun demolition/exterior work on Horton Plaza. I remember coming to this mall as a kid I will miss it but hopefully can breathe some new life in downtown
https://i.imgur.com/6gLCcwc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/yc6zWKv.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KK8OokR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9DkmQHh.jpg
Photo Credit to streetphotosbyjj and ahmedsvoice on Instagram

[HurricaneHugo]

Man I wanted to take one last stroll thru it but then Coronavirus happened...

[Streamliner]

Thanks for the Horton pics. I have such mixed feelings over this project. Sad to see those iconic facades go away.

[JerellO]

So much childhood memories there. I have mixed feelings as well. I’m all for the redevelopment, but there’s were a lot of historic elements I wish got incorporated into the design instead of it just being glass and steel. Something that looks like it could be plopped in any tech city. The historic elements of Horton plaza made it uniquely San Diego.

Are they keeping the Lyceum theater and it’s entrance with the street lamps?? I hope so.

[IconRPCV]

If you look at the Stockdale Horton Plaza site you will see that they are saving and incorporating a few post modern original elements into the new design. This is not enough in my opinion, one day post modern architecture will be as regarded as Victorian and Spanish Revival, and we will lament that one of its icons is mostly gone in favor of bland tech boxes. I am happy they are at least keeping the interior stair facade, one of the center's iconic structures.

Imagine if they tore down Balboa Park or the Hotel Del to put up some bland of there moment architecture; imagine how less beautiful SD would be today. This is what the city will decry in 20 years when they realize what happened to Horton Plaza.

[NYC2ATX]

I have always liked much of what postmodernism brought to the cities of America and I am glad to see that I'm not the only one who understands and appreciates its merits. To me, especially in the case of postmodern skyscrapers, this design movement was the closest architects came in the postwar times to recreating the spires, crowns and exuberant facades of the best prewar skyscrapers. I am glad that they are preserving portions of the original structure of Horton Plaza, and I like many aspects of the new design, but I share your concern that by the time most architectural voices see the positives of this design type, that a lot of it may already be lost.

[Will O' Wisp]

Ballot measure to lift the 30-foot height limit near San Diego sports arena takes step forward (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/story/2020-06-10/ballot-measure-that-would-lift-30-foot-height-limit-near-sports-arena-takes-key-step-forward)

Plans to replace San Diego’s aging sports arena with a modern version and allow high-rise housing in the surrounding neighborhood took a key step forward Wednesday.

The City Council’s Rules Committee endorsed a November ballot measure that would lift the city’s coastal 30-foot height limit for a relatively small swath of land between Interstate 5, Point Loma, Mission Bay Park and San Diego International Airport.

Supporters say it makes sense to lift the 50-year-old height limit for those roughly 850 acres, because there are no views to protect and it’s an ideal spot for dense projects that would help solve San Diego’s housing crisis.

Dense projects make sense there, supporters say, because the area is centrally located near freeways, the airport, the city’s beach communities and the Old Town Transit Center.

The council approved a new development blueprint for the area in 2018 that would increase housing units from 2,000 to 11,000 and increase the population from 4,500 to 27,000.

But developers and community leaders say the height limit makes those plans an unachievable dream, because projects don’t make financial sense unless they can be much higher than 30 feet.

Critics of the proposed ballot measure, which would need only a simple majority for approval, say it could be the first step toward San Diego lifting the height limit in the rest of the coastal zone — La Jolla, Pacific Beach, Ocean Beach, Mission Beach and Point Loma.

Supporters of the ballot measure contend that the area around the 54-year-old arena, called the Midway District, should never have been included in the coastal zone governed by the height limit.

They say the area was arbitrarily included in the 1972 ballot measure that set the height limit, because the area is west of Interstate 5, a border that makes sense when defining the coastal zone elsewhere.

But they say the rest of the coastal zone is quite different from the Midway District, which features almost no single-family homes and is made up mostly of fast food chains, auto businesses and strip clubs.

Lifting the height limit could transform the area, because the fees generated by new development would pay for new freeway on-ramps that would ease congestion and new amenities like parks, a fire station and a bay-to-bay trail.

It also would allow more ambitious proposals to redevelop the 48-acre sports arena site and 40 adjacent acres that the city also owns. Proposals for the site, which the city began soliciting this spring, were due by Monday.

“This is our opportunity to redevelop the city’s properties and the entire community, and to change it from a blighted commercial-industrial zone into a vital community that embodies the city’s and the community’s vision,” Cathy Kenton, chair of the Midway-Pacific Highway Planning Group, told the Rules Committee Wednesday.

Tom Mullaney, a local resident who frequently opposes dense projects, said there is no need to change the coastal height limit. He said the 1972 ballot measure was a grassroots effort focused on community character and coastal access.

“The six communities in the coastal height limit zone are all important,” he said. “They are part of the coastal access for every San Diegan who wants to come west of I-5.”

The Rules Committee vote to endorse the measure was 3-2, with Councilwomen Georgette Gómez and Barbara Bry opposed.

Gómez said she expects to support the ballot measure later but wants city staff to clear up confusion about whether developers applying to redevelop the sports arena site can submit proposals now that are higher than 30 feet.

Bry said she voted no because she’d prefer to see the area around the arena developed more collaboratively with the federal government, which controls the nearby 388-acre Marine Corps Recruit Depot and 80-acre NAVWAR site.

When those sites are included, the lifting of the height limit would affect 1,324 acres. But development of those properties is controlled by the federal government, not the city.

Councilman Chris Ward said he strongly supports the proposal.

“It’s a targeted, limited removal of the height limit in a specific region that doesn’t impact view corridors,” he said.

Ward was joined in support by Councilman Mark Kersey and Councilwoman Monica Montgomery.

The proposal must be placed on the ballot before Aug. 7 by the full council. Councilmembers Chris Cate and Dr. Jennifer Campbell are sponsors of the measure, so they are expected to support it when the full council votes.

Are you guys ready for a second downtown?

[SDfan]

Are you guys ready for a second downtown?

Haha I wish. Based on the recent density updates, they'll probably crest at 6 story, wood stick frame construction in midway.

[Will O' Wisp]

Haha I wish. Based on the recent density updates, they'll probably crest at 6 story, wood stick frame construction in midway.

I wouldn't be so sure...

The City Council is proposing 27,000 people on ~850 acres. Currently, downtown fits roughly 50,000 people on ~2500 acres. Under this plan, "new downtown" would have a population density 1.55x greater than downtown does today.

That doesn't straight up mean high rises, but at that level of density they certainly start becoming a cost feasible option. Airport related height limits are over 300' north of Midway Dr.

[HurricaneHugo]

It's going to fail.

Too many NIMBYs in this city

[Northparkwizard]

Here's a PDF of the community plan. Hopefully we'll see all four proposals put forward for the Sports Arena site and surrounding acreage.

https://www.sandiego.gov/sites/default/files/midway_-_pacific_highway_community_plan_sept_2018_0.pdf

UT article about it published today. (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/story/2020-06-16/four-developers-submit-competing-proposals-for-san-diego-sports-arena-site)

[Will O' Wisp]

Here's a PDF of the community plan. Hopefully we'll see all four proposals put forward for the Sports Arena site and surrounding acreage.

https://www.sandiego.gov/sites/default/files/midway_-_pacific_highway_community_plan_sept_2018_0.pdf

UT article about it published today. (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/story/2020-06-16/four-developers-submit-competing-proposals-for-san-diego-sports-arena-site)

Word on the street is that the RFP might be recirculated because the current one still specifies the 30' height limit....

[HurricaneHugo]

SD City Council finalizes the sale of the Qualcomm site to SDSU

https://timesofsandiego.com/politics/2020/06/17/8-1-city-council-vote-finalizes-sale-of-stadium-land-to-sdsu/

[mello]

I was getting gas at EC Blvd and Texas St yesterday saw a contractor taking photos of the UC project across street and started talking to him.

Bad news first: The mega project at Park Blvd and EC at beginning of University Heights strip that has been cleared but no equipment on it for 3 months is.... STALLED! 370 units he said financing either fell through or they never got final approval and just cleared the site. Let's hope some Banksters decide to kick in funds.

Jonathan Segal Project: He said he wants to go up to 34 floors at Park and Polk... I said what about community opposition he said well technically there isn't a height limit so he is going for it!

He also noted his construction company has lost 3 projects due to financing falling through. This economic collapse is hitting guys. :uhh:

[HurricaneHugo]

I like tall buildings but yeah, 34 floors is too much for the area

[HurricaneHugo]

Bosa Tower topped off and basically completed

Not sure how tall the tower on the left will be.

https://i.imgur.com/kcnY3Yw.jpg?1

[Streamliner]

Jonathan Segal Project: He said he wants to go up to 34 floors at Park and Polk... I said what about community opposition he said well technically there isn't a height limit so he is going for it!


I'm confused. Didn't Jonathan Segal already build something at Park and Polk? Is there another project at that intersection?

[mello]

I'm confused. Didn't Jonathan Segal already build something at Park and Polk? Is there another project at that intersection?

Sorry not Polk but somewhere right around there on the Park Blvd strip maybe just south Polk.

[applejacks]

Bosa seems like a nice infill tower. Thanks for the shot.

Moving to SD after my office reopens. I was thinking of buying a unit in the smart corner but not so sure now.

[SD_Planner]

Congrats on moving to San Diego. The Bosa tower will be nice with the roof deck and finishes, but if you can afford it buying in Smart Corner will make more sense financially in the long run. Smart Corner used to be kinda on the edge of downtown and the surrounding neighborhood was kinda underdeveloped (a little sketchy), but that is changing fast. The whole Upper East Village is now happening with new restaurants in IDEA 1 and along Broadway. Literally, 1000s of new units (almost all apartments) are approved around Smart Corner. The addition of people and $, should result in more businesses, restaurants, and amenities. Smart Corner also literally sits above the trolley station for seamless rides to Little Italy's Mercato on Saturdays and soon straight to the heart of UCSD in LaJolla when the new trolley line opens. But for now, Smart Corner is undervalued with strong investment potential. Its also hard to beat the rooftop hot tub and grill. [I lived there and loved it from 2015-2018]

[applejacks]

Hey SD Planner. Thanks for the awesome reply, I figured I'd get negativity.

Yeah, I want to be downtown with access to the highway. This place seemed reasonably priced, nice balconies/views and potential for appreciation.

I've been following the forum closely as the East Village just seems to be blowing up. I hope that all these projects continue after covid slows down. Get rid of some of those parking lots. :)

Thanks again!

[dirt patch]

I guess this is pretty much it for Downtown SD high rise development for the next 5 years. high rise construction is toast downtown once Bosa and Pinnacle are done. Am I wrong?

[mello]

I guess this is pretty much it for Downtown SD high rise development for the next 5 years. high rise construction is toast downtown once Bosa and Pinnacle are done. Am I wrong?

You have the courthouse tower which is close to 500 feet on Broadway moving forward not sure how much it will stand out in skyline because its a bit hemmed in by other talls.

Still holding out hope for 7th and Market lets see if Cisterra can convince some investment group to come in and fund that sucker. They can say look its a huge project that will take 2.5 years to complete so in 2023 when we open things will be looking up :shrug:

Who knows what will happen with Manchester Pacific Gateway he said he had financing to do the whole project and it was secured... Not sure how the ins and outs of development work so lets see on that.

Updates: Crane is up for the long anticipated second fathers Joe's Village "Tower" on Imperial close to MTS headquarters.

Streetlights: 29 floor tower F/15th St - still has no construction activity simply a cleared lot.

East Village Green: Wasn't construction supposed to be underway for that drove by yesterday and didn't see anything going on looks the same as always.

[dirt patch]

You have the courthouse tower which is close to 500 feet on Broadway moving forward not sure how much it will stand out in skyline because its a bit hemmed in by other talls.

Still holding out hope for 7th and Market lets see if Cisterra can convince some investment group to come in and fund that sucker. They can say look its a huge project that will take 2.5 years to complete so in 2023 when we open things will be looking up :shrug:

Who knows what will happen with Manchester Pacific Gateway he said he had financing to do the whole project and it was secured... Not sure how the ins and outs of development work so lets see on that.

Updates: Crane is up for the long anticipated second fathers Joe's Village "Tower" on Imperial close to MTS headquarters.

Streetlights: 29 floor tower F/15th St - still has no construction activity simply a cleared lot.

East Village Green: Wasn't construction supposed to be underway for that drove by yesterday and didn't see anything going on looks the same as always.
Manchester did away with financing since it didn't work out for him, so he has tried to finance the project himself which built the first tower. If he starts on the rest of the project, it means he is able to fully pay for the project from his own holdings. Remain to be seen. East Village Green: Should be good. Cristerra: doubtful if he gets financing in this current cycle or ever be able to move forward. Court Tower? thought they just built the court tower. It may be Holland Partner's new high rise on C street. May have problem with the softening of residential market in SD and tightening up the capital market. Keep us posted on this project. It may still be built since Holland Partner is very aggressive.

[SDCAL]

I’m convinced 7th and Market is a cursed plot of land and will remain a surface lot for the next decade, at least.

That site has had so many big plans that have gone down in flames, it’s really sad because it’s a prime spot.

Years ago there was a large project slated to move forward but it got tied-up in some scandal with a city official and was subsequently abandoned

The cisterra plans were announced over 5 years ago, I remember the plans were announced BEFORE park/market, and now park/market is pretty much complete and 7th/Market has zero activity.

That stupid lawsuit really ruined it along with the timing of COVID-19.

The one thing I’m not sure about - does the city still own the land or does Cisterra own it now?

[mello]

Courthouse was demolished so I assumed Holland Project is moving forward there, has any announcement been made that it is not happening now?

Can someone site exactly what is going on with Manchester Pac Gate, I know its a bit confusing. So he had financing for entire project, then he rejected it because he crunched numbers and figured out it wouldn't work? He took enough to just build the Navy midrise, now he can either go back to Banks/Investors for a different financing mechanism or somehow self finance?

Do I have this correct, and all of this was made with an official announcement? They told the press that they have rejected the financing they had secured:shrug:

[dirt patch]

Courthouse was demolished so I assumed Holland Project is moving forward there, has any announcement been made that it is not happening now?

Can someone site exactly what is going on with Manchester Pac Gate, I know its a bit confusing. So he had financing for entire project, then he rejected it because he crunched numbers and figured out it wouldn't work? He took enough to just build the Navy midrise, now he can either go back to Banks/Investors for a different financing mechanism or somehow self finance?

Do I have this correct, and all of this was made with an official announcement? They told the press that they have rejected the financing they had secured:shrug:
Yes, Manchester rejected financing, citing that it was too costly and too much strings attached to it. He built the Navy headquarters with a deal with the navy to move into the complex funded by the Navy. The road ends here for now. The Holland's court residential tower: ? maybe it's on hold due to declining rental market and relative glut of market rate apartments downtown. Maybe not: they may just have an upbeat take on it and still move forward, citing still severe housing shortage in the region and taking longer term approach.

[SDCAL]

Yes, Manchester rejected financing, citing that it was too costly and too much strings attached to it. He built the Navy headquarters with a deal with the navy to move into the complex funded by the Navy. The road ends here for now. The Holland's court residential tower: ? maybe it's on hold due to declining rental market and relative glut of market rate apartments downtown. Maybe not: they may just have an upbeat take on it and still move forward, citing still severe housing shortage in the region and taking longer term approach.

The thing that is really irritating about Manchester allowing just the Navy building to go up, is now we are stuck with that building. The Manchester project had a distinctive design to it and all the buildings were supposed to match this Art Deco-ish design. Now, if a different developer wanted to re-envision that entire site they’d have this Navy building to configure into any plans. Manchester really screwed-up this site which was the last major undeveloped waterfront site like this downtown.

[eburress]

The thing that is really irritating about Manchester allowing just the Navy building to go up, is now we are stuck with that building. The Manchester project had a distinctive design to it and all the buildings were supposed to match this Art Deco-ish design. Now, if a different developer wanted to re-envision that entire site they’d have this Navy building to configure into any plans. Manchester really screwed-up this site which was the last major undeveloped waterfront site like this downtown.

Was it Manchester that screwed the site up, or was it the years of lawsuits, bureaucracy, NIMBYs, and other similar BS he had to deal with that ultimately screwed the site up? The project would have been completed long ago if it wasn't for all the city's shenanigans.

[SDCAL]

Was it Manchester that screwed the site up, or was it the years of lawsuits, bureaucracy, NIMBYs, and other similar BS he had to deal with that ultimately screwed the site up? The project would have been completed long ago if it wasn't for all the city's shenanigans.

Lawsuits and NIMBYs screwed up 7th and Market, but I blame Manchester for what happened with his project. He didn’t have any lawsuits when he broke ground and claimed he had full funding, that’s what was reported in the press. He then knowingly built the Navy tower knowing the rest wasn’t going to happen. I remember someone on this forum trying to call his office to get info on the project when it seemed to have stalled and they were hung up on. He can’t blame COVID-19 either, this stuff happened before the pandemic.

[staplesla]

Was it Manchester that screwed the site up, or was it the years of lawsuits, bureaucracy, NIMBYs, and other similar BS he had to deal with that ultimately screwed the site up? The project would have been completed long ago if it wasn't for all the city's shenanigans.

All obstacles to the Manchester project had been cleared. According to a friend who is a city council member she believes Manchester lied when he stated he had the funding. He did originally, but he pulled out of that financing agreement as he didn’t like the terms. Then he said he’d use his own money. He should have never built the Navy building without being transparent with the city.

An no, this wasn’t Covid related. I knew this a while back, hence my call to Manchester Financial to inquire. That’s when I was hung up on.

[eburress]

Lawsuits and NIMBYs screwed up 7th and Market, but I blame Manchester for what happened with his project. He didn’t have any lawsuits when he broke ground and claimed he had full funding, that’s what was reported in the press. He then knowingly built the Navy tower knowing the rest wasn’t going to happen. I remember someone on this forum trying to call his office to get info on the project when it seemed to have stalled and they were hung up on. He can’t blame COVID-19 either, this stuff happened before the pandemic.
I'm referring to the years of shenanigans which came before...and delayed...the groundbreaking. If it wasn't for all the BS opposition the project would have been completed long ago.

[tdavis]

I'm referring to the years of shenanigans which came before...and delayed...the groundbreaking. If it wasn't for all the BS opposition the project would have been completed long ago.

In all reality he didn’t have the financing then either. MFG was spending their time on suits/etc., they didn’t have the financing at that time as they wanted to wait until all obstacles had been remedied before finalizing financing.

Once those obstacles were cleared he then built the Navy building then halted the rest. This was all pre-Covid.

[HurricaneHugo]

First two proposed plans for the Sports Arena land are here:

https://sportsarenainput.org/

[sanatty]

In all reality he didn’t have the financing then either. MFG was spending their time on suits/etc., they didn’t have the financing at that time as they wanted to wait until all obstacles had been remedied before finalizing financing.

Once those obstacles were cleared he then built the Navy building then halted the rest. This was all pre-Covid.

So my understanding is that in order to obtain non-equity financing (what was rejected) - this means a loan secured by Manchester’s interest in the ground lease from the Navy (99 years) he must FIRST construct, gratis, the HQ building and deliver to Navy. Once that occurs he has perfected his leasehold and can go borrow money secured by a leasehold deed of trust.

[Will O' Wisp]

First two proposed plans for the Sports Arena land are here:

https://sportsarenainput.org/

I have to say, perhaps the only good thing about this pandemic is how all these open houses are online now. So much more convenient.

[HurricaneHugo]

Wait, are they building a new arena or just renovating the SA?

Is it really worth saving?

[ucsbgaucho]

Wait, are they building a new arena or just renovating the SA?

Is it really worth saving?

Looks like these proposals renovate the existing structure, which is much more cost effective. Not sure if the SA has the same problems the Q has/had that rendered it unsalvageable.

[mello]

7 FLoor Hillcrest Project Across the street from Whole Foods and that ATT switching station atrocity.... Stalled!! Still is not even close to reaching street level 25 feet down I would guess and that thing broke ground 10 months ago :(

Sports Arena Project: Do you guys really think this is going to happen anytime soon with how the economy is going to be? Who is going to lease all these 2800 to 3200$ 2 br 2bth units and $2100 1br? Young people who had money are screwed right now and its only going to get worse.

Broadway Courthouse project: Has anyone seen if this has transitioned from demo to construction of the tower? Thanks :cheers:

[HurricaneHugo]

Update:

https://i.imgur.com/wQQGnCg.jpg?1

I'm not even sure what tower is this so I'm not sure if it's topped off

[dirt patch]

Update:

https://i.imgur.com/wQQGnCg.jpg?1

I'm not even sure what tower is this so I'm not sure if it's topped off

One is Pinnacle and the other is Broadway tower by Bosa. Both of them are pretty much topped off or close to being topped off.

[dirt patch]

Update:

https://i.imgur.com/wQQGnCg.jpg?1

I'm not even sure what tower is this so I'm not sure if it's topped off

One is Pinnacle and the other is Broadway tower by Bosa. The Broadway Tower is pretty much topped off. The other has ways to go before topping off.

[mello]

Weren't they also supposed to start construction soon on the twin to that one. Maybe good ole COVID put a stop to it. Anyone figure out whats up with the courthouse tower? :shrug:

[MN/WI]

Gee can some one else post the picture again. 3 times in a row. Insane.

[aekrid]

Looks like Demolition work on the site that will become Alexan Little Italy.

https://imgur.com/j7EOpbZ.jpg

3rd & A rising to the 7/8th floor.
https://imgur.com/uPuWMkJ.jpg

[eburress]

Looks like Demolition work on the site that will become Alexan Little Italy.

https://imgur.com/j7EOpbZ.jpg

3rd & A rising to the 7/8th floor.
https://imgur.com/uPuWMkJ.jpg

Man, how exciting (and a little surreal) to finally see that very underutilized block get developed!

[SDfan]

Thanks for the updates, ya'll. Does anyone know where we can get updates on upcoming downtown projects now that civic sd is gone? I checked the downtown community planners website, but nothing there. Are we going to have to start searching the city's website or something?

[sanatty]

Hearing from Jason Hughes that Alan Gold (founder of BioMedRealty, which he sold to Blackstone for ~$8b) has a new venture, IQHQ that just went non-refundable on the southern 2/3rds of the leasehold at Pacific Gateway (see: https://hughesmarino.com/san-diego/blog/2020/07/14/can-life-science-save-downtown-san-diego/)

Jason speculates that someone like Alan Gold wouldn't make a big bet on life sciences space downtown (unproven) without a BIG name that wanted to occupy the space.

Should be exciting to see

[dirt patch]

Latest Updates: Boom times ahead for Downtown SD.

1. Holland Partner's Court Tower breaks ground very soon

2. Alexian Little Italy 36 story tower breaks ground in August

3. Pinnacle 2nd tower breaks ground in Oct.

4. 3rd and A tower is underway

5. Hotel tower on Cortez by 5th street will begin work in late summer

Just a few weeks ago, I thought it was over, but apparently, the residential and hotel developers, especially from Texas are bullish on SD. The rental market is cooling off but not as much as expected since people from Northern California are moving into SD areas due to lower prices.

[mello]

Any rendering of the Hotel on Cortez hill Dirt Patch?

[Nv_2897]

Also saw that the crane for the affordable housing tower in east village by father joes villages is up
https://imgur.com/a/ObKUfte
https://imgur.com/a/0BkwuQo

[dirt patch]

Any rendering of the Hotel on Cortez hill Dirt Patch?

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/story/2019-05-24/its-a-go-for-new-16-story-hotel-in-downtowns-cortez-hill

[JerellO]

Just curious about where SD will build when there are no more lots to develop downtown? I know we got awhile but with SD’s height limit and limited space inside the downtown 5 freeway loop... Do u think towers will start spreading g south or north?? I have a feeling north towards bankers hill and hillcrest

[dirt patch]

Just curious about where SD will build when there are no more lots to develop downtown? I know we got awhile but with SD’s height limit and limited space inside the downtown 5 freeway loop... Do u think towers will start spreading g south or north?? I have a feeling north towards bankers hill and hillcrest

Plenty, plenty of surface lots all over downtown to build high rises. Little Italy, Cortez Hill and East Village has plenty of them.

[jd3189]

http://sunnycv.com/steve/maps/sd/2718a.jpg

For a change of pace, how about this map of downtown circa 1876. I just love all the detail (http://sunnycv.com/steve/maps/sd/2718bg.jpg). (warning: large image)

The city is depicted from Balboa Park, and for reference the view to very similar to what you see today while coming into land at the airport. As far as I can tell it was commissioned to draw up support for extending the southern transcontinental railroad to the harbor, which would have made San Diego the port of entry for all of southern California. Unfortunately geography dictated the railroad swing north to Los Angeles instead, which lead to LA becoming the region's commercial hub instead.

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/sandiegomagazine.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/c3/8c393357-efa2-5e52-9104-98b8af63475a/5e18a28686f6d.image.jpg

Here's a photograph taken in that same year. The pier terminated near the trolley station in the Gaslamp District, everything beyond was dredged out of the harbor in later years.

Nice. I do wonder how would things be if San Diego was the main city in Southern California. That would entail a lot.

[SDCAL]

Latest Updates: Boom times ahead for Downtown SD.

1. Holland Partner's Court Tower breaks ground very soon

2. Alexian Little Italy 36 story tower breaks ground in August

3. Pinnacle 2nd tower breaks ground in Oct.

4. 3rd and A tower is underway

5. Hotel tower on Cortez by 5th street will begin work in late summer

Just a few weeks ago, I thought it was over, but apparently, the residential and hotel developers, especially from Texas are bullish on SD. The rental market is cooling off but not as much as expected since people from Northern California are moving into SD areas due to lower prices.

Good news, but worried to not see 7th/Market listed. If other projects are able to get funding and proceed despite COVID-19, I wonder if that one will?

[Dale]

Latest Updates: Boom times ahead for Downtown SD.

1. Holland Partner's Court Tower breaks ground very soon

2. Alexian Little Italy 36 story tower breaks ground in August

3. Pinnacle 2nd tower breaks ground in Oct.

4. 3rd and A tower is underway

5. Hotel tower on Cortez by 5th street will begin work in late summer

Just a few weeks ago, I thought it was over, but apparently, the residential and hotel developers, especially from Texas are bullish on SD. The rental market is cooling off but not as much as expected since people from Northern California are moving into SD areas due to lower prices.

This is amazing to me. 2007-2008 saw construction grind to a halt. In the macro, this contraction may be several times worse. But construction motors on. Not that this high rise lover is complaining.

[HurricaneHugo]

Does anybody know what's going up near St. Vincent de Paul on Imperial and 15th?

I'm hoping for a 40+ story megatall.:D

[dirt patch]

This is amazing to me. 2007-2008 saw construction grind to a halt. In the macro, this contraction may be several times worse. But construction motors on. Not that this high rise lover is complaining.

Luckily, the Financial/investment community is very bullish on San Diego regardless of temporary down or up market unlike even the more economic booming cities elsewhere in U.S.. For instance, Downtown San Jose to the north market has been very hot for office and housing with Google planned urban campus downtown, but it can't get a tower off the ground after the pandemic hit or any slow downs, after revealing so many projects. Almost none breaks ground: just talk but no walk, and the same goes for a lot of cities. Note* San Diego has much weaker economy than San Jose, which is the Capital of Silicon Valley with lots of momentum. High tech is still booming. Lenders are king and money rules. Lucky devil, San Diego!!