SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[spoonman]

That first photo isn't Park and Market. Thats the Bosa development "Broadway Block" also going up nearby. Park and Market is the UCSD extension right? Too many big projects to keep track of, I love it.

Will Savina have anything on its rooftop? It sure look's like theres going to be something up there, hopefully not just for tenants. SD really lacks good rooftop bars/ clubs.


At least 9 rooftop bars come to mind. I’d actually say SD has led the way on rooftop bars.

Here are a few I can think of...Omnia, Hard Rock, Andaz/Roftop by STK, J Six, Hotel Republic, Hotel Palomar, Level 9, Glass Door, Kettner Exchange, etc.

[Streamliner]

But because the City of SD has decided that would just look silly the Centre City PDO limits building heights to 500 feel above sea level across all of downtown. Although the City Council can overrule this and has done so in the past, unless your project is going to be iconic as One America Plaza (or the Seaport Village observation tower hopefully!) they're probably going to say no.

Fascinating, so this is why so many new buildings seem to arbitrarily be 470-480 feet. It still doesn't make sense that they used ASL, when Caltrans was only enforcing AGL.

[Boatguy619]

At least 9 rooftop bars come to mind. I’d actually say SD has led the way on rooftop bars.

Here are a few I can think of...Omnia, Hard Rock, Andaz/Roftop by STK, J Six, Hotel Republic, Hotel Palomar, Level 9, Glass Door, Kettner Exchange, etc.

Are any of those over 20 stories? Lol that's weak. Hyatt has top of the Hyatt at 40+ but it's all indoor. That's the only one 400+ft I can think of.

[superfishy]

Are any of those over 20 stories? Lol that's weak. Hyatt has top of the Hyatt at 40+ but it's all indoor. That's the only one 400+ft I can think of.

Altitude Skylounge is on the 22nd floor I believe. Nice views of the Coronado bridge and into Petco park.

[spoonman]

In many cases developers put the rooftop venues on the podium’s rooftop as opposed to the tower’s rooftop. Most cities have few at the top of a tower. NYC and a few other cities may be the exception.

Besides Altitude, Top of the Hyatt, and others mentioned, Cusp at Hotel LaJolla is breathtaking.

[Nv_2897]

I hope the Seaport redevelopment gets going before the next economic lull.

From what I heard Seaport should break ground early 2022

[Boatguy619]

It would be nice if some of these 40+ story high rises put bars, infinity pools, restaurants, or something at the top like cities in Asia. I guess there's more money in selling real estate than selling drinks. I'm still holding out hope Savina has something going on up top, what's the point of the overhang or the landscaping on the roof if there's no access. There's also been a cherry picker at the top for quite a while, hard to tell what it's doing but looks like its putting up lighting on the overhang.

[Will O' Wisp]

That first photo isn't Park and Market. Thats the Bosa development "Broadway Block" also going up nearby. Park and Market is the UCSD extension right? Too many big projects to keep track of, I love it.

Will Savina have anything on its rooftop? It sure look's like theres going to be something up there, hopefully not just for tenants. SD really lacks good rooftop bars/ clubs.

There are just waaay too many projects rn, I don't think anyone can keep them all straight...

I mentioned before a little bit about the controversy surrounding the establishment of the South Park Historic District, and it looks like it's finally filtered out into the press.

Outdoor museums that don’t pay for themselves (https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2018/nov/14/cover-outdoor-museums-dont-pay-themselves/)

[Northparkwizard]

Developer backs out of 42-story remodel of old Central Library.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/real-estate/sd-fi-bosa-library-20181127-story,amp.html

[HurricaneHugo]

Developer backs out of 42-story remodel of old Central Library.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/real-estate/sd-fi-bosa-library-20181127-story,amp.html

Not just any developer, Bosa.

If they're backing out...

[superfishy]

Not just any developer, Bosa.

If they're backing out...

What implication are you suggesting?

[Nv_2897]

New tech campus proposed for East Village
UT article link: https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-superblock-eastvillage-office-20181129-story.html

https://i.imgur.com/ljgzLjB.jpg

[Will O' Wisp]

Not just any developer, Bosa.

If they're backing out...

It's sad news, but lets not panic just yet. Of the projects we've been seeing pop up this one was always going to be one of the tougher ones. The NE corner of downtown is already the least developed, balancing the historical aspect was always going to be complex, but then the increasing price of steel and the slight ongoing slowdown in the housing market made the knockout blows. We're starting to reach a state where a bolder developer like Bosa is hesitant to make a single handed attempt to revitalize an area, but hot areas like East Village or the waterfront should keep chugging along. At least for now...

That area in particular kinda needs some anchors , something out there to really bring people in, it's one of the weaker sectors of downtown in that respect. A museum or other cultural monument is certainly an option, but we might have to wait for the trolley line up Park Blvd to Balboa Park for the area to really take off.

[Northparkwizard]

Union & Ash full drawings.
(http://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Drawings-Union-Ash-11.20.2018.pdf)https://i.imgur.com/tzxYjrb.jpg

13th & Broadway full drawings.
(http://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Drawings-13th-Broadway-11.21.18.pdf)https://i.imgur.com/uQAJNM8.jpg

Jefferson Makers Quarter full drawings. (http://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Dec-18-Spec-DR-Item-7-Jefferson-Makers-Quarter-1.pdf)
https://i.imgur.com/YtATMSl.jpg

[Steadfast]

Thanks for the update Northparkwizard!

[CaliNative]

It's sad news, but lets not panic just yet. Of the projects we've been seeing pop up this one was always going to be one of the tougher ones. The NE corner of downtown is already the least developed, balancing the historical aspect was always going to be complex, but then the increasing price of steel and the slight ongoing slowdown in the housing market made the knockout blows. We're starting to reach a state where a bolder developer like Bosa is hesitant to make a single handed attempt to revitalize an area, but hot areas like East Village or the waterfront should keep chugging along. At least for now...

That area in particular kinda needs some anchors , something out there to really bring people in, it's one of the weaker sectors of downtown in that respect. A museum or other cultural monument is certainly an option, but we might have to wait for the trolley line up Park Blvd to Balboa Park for the area to really take off.

Rather than a trolley extension, how about extending the proposed gondola from the airport, along Coast Highway by the hotels and Gaslamp, and then turn north in the east village up Park into NE downtown and into Balboa Park where it could terminate in the museum or zoo district? Cheaper than a trolley extension and way more fun and scenic. The tourists would love it, and so would the locals.

[Will O' Wisp]

Rather than a trolley extension, how about extending the proposed gondola from the airport, along Coast Highway by the hotels and Gaslamp, and then turn north in the east village up Park into NE downtown and into Balboa Park where it could terminate in the museum or zoo district? Cheaper than a trolley extension and way more fun and scenic. The tourists would love it, and so would the locals.

Not an awful idea, but the trolley already runs parallel to that most of that route in downtown so the only real changes would be the extensions to the airport and Balboa Park. Also, the proposed trolley extension wouldn't end in Balboa Park, in SANDAG's plans it goes north all the way to El Cajon Blvd, then east through the densest parts of North Park, past another proposed trolley route going N/S on the 15, before finally turning north on College Ave to intersect the green line underneath SDSU.

Obviously that's going to be much more expensive than a simple gondola, but in the long run it would give us a higher capacity system with a more complete transportation network.

[HurricaneHugo]

Skyline will be complete once Pacific Gateway goes up!


https://i.imgur.com/z2mMI2R.jpg?1

PS: Post stuff

[Will O' Wisp]

PS: Post stuff

Well if you insist...

Fun times, County approved a master plan for McClellan-Palomar airport with an 800' runway extension and an upgrade in classification to D-III for commercial service (aka regional jets, up to 737s although other factors make this unlikely). Predictably a group of North County residents sued under CEQA, guided by the ever gratuitous Correy Briggs, esq.

I really wish there was better education on CEQA, then maybe we'd have less of these pointless lawsuits. Just an FYI, the ultimate authority for project approvals lies with the local approving body (city council, board of supervisors, etc). All CEQA says is that you are require to present this body with an accurate statement on any new effects this project will have on the physical environment before approving it, and if there was anything missing from this statement you can sue to have the statement redone and presented again.

For reference, a list of things that do not represent a valid CEQA case:

-Any existing environmental conditions, or anything that would still occur if the project wasn't built. That's simply outside the scope of what we're discussing.
-Any environmental impact that was disclosed in the EIR, even if it wasn't mitigated. Your duly elected representatives are assumed to have read the document and their approval means the benefits of this proposed project have been judged as worth the cost.
-Any reasoning the approving body's to approve the project, short of bribery or other malfeasance. As duly elected representatives the approving board de-facto represents the will of the community itself, and thus are given broad leeway in their decision making.
-Any reasoning the project sponsor or approving body used to make choice of alternatives, even if this lead to them choosing an alternative that presents greater environmental impacts than the others. Again, approving bodies have broad leeway in their decision making and their approval means the benefits have been judged as worth the cost.
-Any non-physical environmental impacts, including social and economic impacts. The courts have really been cracking down on this one lately, so any arguments about how this project affects your lifestyle or income are going to get short shrift unless you can provide a direct, measurable, and physical link with the project (and not how it makes you feel sad/unhappy).
-Any minor issues with document formatting or inconsequential omitted environmental impacts that wouldn't have effected the approving body's decision. No EIR can ever be totally complete or perfect, the point is to provide the approving body with enough information to make a yes/no judgement.

A list of things that do represent a valid CEQA case:

-When a project sponsor, intentionally or unintentionally, omits one or more of the ways the proposed project will effect the physical environment around it, and the omission was significant enough to likely effect the approving body's decision. Or in layman's terms, if there was something left out of the EIR that could've changed the approving body's mind. Anything else, and all you're doing is wasting two years of everyone's time and helping pay for Corey Briggs' new yacht.

[spoonman]

Skyline will be complete once Pacific Gateway goes up!


https://i.imgur.com/z2mMI2R.jpg?1

PS: Post stuff

I’ve actually always disliked that angle. Seems to miss lots of buildings, and show lots in distance making them look small.

[spoonman]

Well if you insist...

Fun times, County approved a master plan for McClellan-Palomar airport with an 800' runway extension and an upgrade in classification to D-III for commercial service (aka regional jets, up to 737s although other factors make this unlikely). Predictably a group of North County residents sued under CEQA, guided by the ever gratuitous Correy Briggs, esq.

I really wish there was better education on CEQA, then maybe we'd have less of these pointless lawsuits. Just an FYI, the ultimate authority for project approvals lies with the local approving body (city council, board of supervisors, etc). All CEQA says is that you are require to present this body with an accurate statement on any new effects this project will have on the physical environment before approving it, and if there was anything missing from this statement you can sue to have the statement redone and presented again.

For reference, a list of things that do not represent a valid CEQA case:

-Any existing environmental conditions, or anything that would still occur if the project wasn't built. That's simply outside the scope of what we're discussing.
-Any environmental impact that was disclosed in the EIR, even if it wasn't mitigated. Your duly elected representatives are assumed to have read the document and their approval means the benefits of this proposed project have been judged as worth the cost.
-Any reasoning the approving body's to approve the project, short of bribery or other malfeasance. As duly elected representatives the approving board de-facto represents the will of the community itself, and thus are given broad leeway in their decision making.
-Any reasoning the project sponsor or approving body used to make choice of alternatives, even if this lead to them choosing an alternative that presents greater environmental impacts than the others. Again, approving bodies have broad leeway in their decision making and their approval means the benefits have been judged as worth the cost.
-Any non-physical environmental impacts, including social and economic impacts. The courts have really been cracking down on this one lately, so any arguments about how this project affects your lifestyle or income are going to get short shrift unless you can provide a direct, measurable, and physical link with the project (and not how it makes you feel sad/unhappy).
-Any minor issues with document formatting or inconsequential omitted environmental impacts that wouldn't have effected the approving body's decision. No EIR can ever be totally complete or perfect, the point is to provide the approving body with enough information to make a yes/no judgement.

A list of things that do represent a valid CEQA case:

-When a project sponsor, intentionally or unintentionally, omits one or more of the ways the proposed project will effect the physical environment around it, and the omission was significant enough to likely effect the approving body's decision. Or in layman's terms, if there was something left out of the EIR that could've changed the approving body's mind. Anything else, and all you're doing is wasting two years of everyone's time and helping pay for Corey Briggs' new yacht.

How likely is expanded airline service, beyond what is currently offered? Will an extra 800ft be a difference maker?

[Streamliner]

Well if you insist...

Fun times, County approved a master plan for McClellan-Palomar airport with an 800' runway extension and an upgrade in classification to D-III for commercial service (aka regional jets, up to 737s although other factors make this unlikely). Predictably a group of North County residents sued under CEQA, guided by the ever gratuitous Correy Briggs, esq.

Haven't heard much about Cory in awhile, I was wondering what he's been up to. Thanks for your updates!

[Will O' Wisp]

How likely is expanded airline service, beyond what is currently offered? Will an extra 800ft be a difference maker?

County practically has letters in hand promising real commercial service McClellan-Pallomar if they expand the runway. Airlines aren't generally willing to publicly make these sort of commitments far in advance, but there is a proven interest.

800 feet might not seem like much, but a 5000 foot runway essentially limits commercial service to the the smallest of regional jets, and then only within the southwest. It's a very limited market, so limited that the economics of it don't really work out. A 5800 foot runway though could allow all sizes of regional jets to operate with enough range to cover the entire continental US. It could in theory even accommodate 737s although the constrained airport landside makes this unlikely. I would expect to start seeing service to some of the western hubs (LAS, PHX, DEN, SEA, possibly DFW) fairly soon after the expansion. CRQ is never going to be a major hub, or even a minor focus city like SNA, but it could see a lot of utility as an alternative to SAN for regional flights.

[202_Cyclist]

County practically has letters in hand promising real commercial service McClellan-Pallomar if they expand the runway. Airlines aren't generally willing to publicly make these sort of commitments far in advance, but there is a proven interest.

800 feet might not seem like much, but a 5000 foot runway essentially limits commercial service to the the smallest of regional jets, and then only within the southwest. It's a very limited market, so limited that the economics of it don't really work out. A 5800 foot runway though could allow all sizes of regional jets to operate with enough range to cover the entire continental US. It could in theory even accommodate 737s although the constrained airport landside makes this unlikely. I would expect to start seeing service to some of the western hubs (LAS, PHX, DEN, SEA, possibly DFW) fairly soon after the expansion. CRQ is never going to be a major hub, or even a minor focus city like SNA, but it could see a lot of utility as an alternative to SAN for regional flights.

This is exciting news. SNA’s runway length is only 5,700 feet. I think flights from Santa Ana have a limit on passengers to East Coast destinations because of this short runway length and the required length needed for fuel to the East Coast.

[spoonman]

County practically has letters in hand promising real commercial service McClellan-Pallomar if they expand the runway. Airlines aren't generally willing to publicly make these sort of commitments far in advance, but there is a proven interest.

800 feet might not seem like much, but a 5000 foot runway essentially limits commercial service to the the smallest of regional jets, and then only within the southwest. It's a very limited market, so limited that the economics of it don't really work out. A 5800 foot runway though could allow all sizes of regional jets to operate with enough range to cover the entire continental US. It could in theory even accommodate 737s although the constrained airport landside makes this unlikely. I would expect to start seeing service to some of the western hubs (LAS, PHX, DEN, SEA, possibly DFW) fairly soon after the expansion. CRQ is never going to be a major hub, or even a minor focus city like SNA, but it could see a lot of utility as an alternative to SAN for regional flights.

I didn’t realize that this expansion puts the runway at 5800ft, slightly more than SNA. That is terrific for the reasons you mentioned. I remember in Carlsbad’s heyday back around 2006 when it had service from both American and United via Skywest. The markets were LAX and PHX as feeder traffic to these two airlines’ hubs. AA was killed by the recession and United lasted until Skywest decommissioned the Brasília aircraft. This left no service until the upstart Airlines like Cal Pacific came along, with service to places like PHX, LAS, OAK, etc.

I’m not sure how long CP Air will last financially, but they obviously tapped into an underserved market. Good news for Carlsbad seems that either CP Air will succeed or another airline(s) will enter the market. The hope is that whoever enters the market can add some point to point service or at least feed multiple hubs.

[HurricaneHugo]

Apple starting a San Diego office with 1,000 jobs.

Wonder where they'll set up shop at. What building I mean

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/technology/sd-fi-apple-jobsinsandiego-20181213-story.html

[Will O' Wisp]

Apple starting a San Diego office with 1,000 jobs.

Wonder where they'll set up shop at. What building I mean

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/technology/sd-fi-apple-jobsinsandiego-20181213-story.html

Somewhere in UTC by the looks of it

Apple Eyes UTC Area for New Campus in San Diego (https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Apple-to-Open-Campus-in-San-Diego-502729551.html)

Looks like the mid-coast extension is already paying some dividends

[JerellO]

I wish all these companies can relocate to downtown.. Unversity City/UTC seems too fake, suburban and manicured.. it doesn’t have that real authentic city vibe.

[HurricaneHugo]

I wish all these companies can relocate to downtown.. Unversity City/UTC seems too fake, suburban and manicured.. it doesn’t have that real authentic city vibe.

That and the 5 and 805 are a mess

[sandiego_urban]

Not sure if these renderings have already been posted. I'm liking the art deco look, because it's something a bit different in the skyline. The location is at Park and Broadway.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7811/45783938864_0a20875da7.jpg

It looks pretty good at night, too.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4821/45594420635_68d5f22f33.jpg

And yet another one that hits the MSL height limit @ 500'
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4891/45783938994_a41968a229.jpg

https://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/2018-41_Drawings.pdf

[JerellO]

Sorry if these renderings have already been posted. I'm liking the art deco look, because it's something a bit different in the skyline.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7811/45783938864_0a20875da7.jpg

It looks pretty good at night, too.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4821/45594420635_68d5f22f33.jpg

And yet another one that hits the MSL height limit @ 500'
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4891/45783938994_a41968a229.jpg

https://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/2018-41_Drawings.pdf


Where is that tower to be built?

[Will O' Wisp]

Where is that tower to be built?

In the dirt patch next to the city college station. About damn time something was put there.

[sandiego_urban]

In the dirt patch next to the city college station. About damn time something was put there.
Agreed. It's across the street from Smart Corner and that area still needs plenty of help.

[Steadfast]

In the dirt patch next to the city college station. About damn time something was put there.

That's quite the height jump for that part of town... the college & that part of EV is mostly 4-6 storey buildings.
Going to be interesting to see how it fits in.

What's the height on the development currently going up south of Smart Corner?

[joemamma]

Not sure if these renderings have already been posted. I'm liking the art deco look, because it's something a bit different in the skyline. The location is at Park and Broadway.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7811/45783938864_0a20875da7.jpg

It looks pretty good at night, too.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4821/45594420635_68d5f22f33.jpg

And yet another one that hits the MSL height limit @ 500'
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4891/45783938994_a41968a229.jpg

https://civicsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/2018-41_Drawings.pdf



Anyone know the timeline for this project? Looks great. Should be an interesting viewpoint when flying into San Diego from the East. Thanks sandiego_urban

[JerellO]

Anyone know the timeline for this project? Looks great. Should be an interesting viewpoint when flying into San Diego from the East. Thanks sandiego_urban

Also driving west on the 94 and merging onto 5 north 🙌🏼

[sandiego_urban]

Anyone know the timeline for this project? Looks great. Should be an interesting viewpoint when flying into San Diego from the East. Thanks sandiego_urban
I was hoping someone here would know more about the timeline. It's great seeing taller towers being built in the eastern of downtown.

Anyone know if there is any movement going on at 7th & Market yet?

[Nv_2897]

Does anyone know whats up with the california theater redevelopment on C street?

[SDfan]

I was hoping someone here would know more about the timeline. It's great seeing taller towers being built in the eastern of downtown.

Anyone know if there is any movement going on at 7th & Market yet?

Honestly, for residential high-rise projects, if it's not Bosa, Pinnacle, Alexan, or a project tied to the city (Park & Market, 7th & Market) I don't see much getting done anytime soon.

We have had a rash of towers proposed from obscure LLC entities who are just trying to get their entitlement permits done so they can increase the value of their properties for future sale.

I mean, maybe this one will be different, but eh. The only way I see them actually being built is if one of the larger development companies buys them and decides to move forward (as Bosa did with the the Block) or they could just squash the project entirely to eliminate competition.

As for 7th and Market, from what we last heard they were going to break ground in Q1 or Q2 2019 for a 2021 completion date. Keep your fingers crossed!

Also, a friend at the downtown partnership told me that the owners of the Californian are currently negotiating with their opponents to reach an agreement that preserves the old building but also permits a new tower on-site. Who knows if that'll work out...

[SDfan]

I was hoping someone here would know more about the timeline. It's great seeing taller towers being built in the eastern of downtown.

Anyone know if there is any movement going on at 7th & Market yet?

Oh! sandiego_urban, the Park and Broadway project renders, was that a recent proposal submitted to Civic or was that something you dug up?

[Orlando]

So the developer wanted to build a 36 floor tower with very little parking, that's not going to fly. Funny how our whole society is falling apart due to parking, that will be the downfall of America not constructing our cities in such a matter where you don't need so much parking :haha: Then to build proper housing for our citizens parking makes the costs go up so much. Sad...

What is the minimum # of required parking spaces in San Diego? In Seattle there is no minimum, and above-grade parking counts towards FAR, and is not allowed to have street frontage. Lots of incentives to build it all underground or hidden. The existing above-grade parking garages in downtown are eyesores.

[Orlando]

Found a post on reddit with the most perfect aerial shot of Manchester Pacific Gateway Progress

https://i.redd.it/qkf9qohe42o11.jpg
Courtesy Matt_Skywalker on reddit

I was out there myself the other day, I'd estimate that the entire site has been dug up by 5-6 feet and those deeper pits are closer to 30'. Underground parking perhaps?

What's under construction in the foreground of this photo? I'll be visiting in January and will be staying directly across it at the Embassy Suites hotel.

[Will O' Wisp]

What's under construction in the foreground of this photo? I'll be visiting in January and will be staying directly across it at the Embassy Suites hotel.

As I said in the original post, it's the Manchester Pacific Gateway. Largest project in SD history, 8 blocks worth of High/Mid rises.

http://www.manchesterpacificgateway.com/images/renderings/slider4.jpg

Don't expect to see much more than a dirt patch when you visit though, it's a 4 year project and they're not even done with the underground portions yet.

[HurricaneHugo]

Manchester Pacific Gateway

5 towers and a park I think

[mello]

SD Fan or others with input can we have a more in depth discussion about this:

"Honestly, for residential high-rise projects, if it's not Bosa, Pinnacle, Alexan, or a project tied to the city (Park & Market, 7th & Market) I don't see much getting done anytime soon.

We have had a rash of towers proposed from obscure LLC entities who are just trying to get their entitlement permits done so they can increase the value of their properties for future sale". --------------------------------

Is this phenomenon routine in other cities as well? Why aren't other big developers who do projects in the Bay or LA coming here? Chinese guys, Miami guys, who knows? Why doesn't anyone come an challenge the hegemony of BOSA and Pinnacle its like they are a mafia with SD as their territory.

You are right SD Fan the are so many tall towers, 2 in Cortez Hill or close, 1st and Beech, this one just posted, and then 8th and Broadway possibly others that have full entitlements but have been sitting around for 2 years or more.

Thanks guys

[eburress]

SD Fan or others with input can we have a more in depth discussion about this:

"Honestly, for residential high-rise projects, if it's not Bosa, Pinnacle, Alexan, or a project tied to the city (Park & Market, 7th & Market) I don't see much getting done anytime soon.

We have had a rash of towers proposed from obscure LLC entities who are just trying to get their entitlement permits done so they can increase the value of their properties for future sale". --------------------------------

Is this phenomenon routine in other cities as well? Why aren't other big developers who do projects in the Bay or LA coming here? Chinese guys, Miami guys, who knows? Why doesn't anyone come an challenge the hegemony of BOSA and Pinnacle its like they are a mafia with SD as their territory.

You are right SD Fan the are so many tall towers, 2 in Cortez Hill or close, 1st and Beech, this one just posted, and then 8th and Broadway possibly others that have full entitlements but have been sitting around for 2 years or more.

Thanks guys

Getting permits so as to increase property values definitely does happen elsewhere. Developers "specializing" in specific geographies also seems pretty common. You don't see Trammell Crow building much out here and you don't see Bosa developing projects in Chicago, for example.

[sandiego_urban]

Honestly, for residential high-rise projects, if it's not Bosa, Pinnacle, Alexan, or a project tied to the city (Park & Market, 7th & Market) I don't see much getting done anytime soon.

We have had a rash of towers proposed from obscure LLC entities who are just trying to get their entitlement permits done so they can increase the value of their properties for future sale.

I mean, maybe this one will be different, but eh. The only way I see them actually being built is if one of the larger development companies buys them and decides to move forward (as Bosa did with the the Block) or they could just squash the project entirely to eliminate competition.

As for 7th and Market, from what we last heard they were going to break ground in Q1 or Q2 2019 for a 2021 completion date. Keep your fingers crossed!

Also, a friend at the downtown partnership told me that the owners of the Californian are currently negotiating with their opponents to reach an agreement that preserves the old building but also permits a new tower on-site. Who knows if that'll work out...
You make a good point about all of the LLC proposals out there. I guess something is better than nothing. I'm just glad commercial development has finally woken up. Good to hear about 7th and Market.

[sandiego_urban]

Oh! sandiego_urban, the Park and Broadway project renders, was that a recent proposal submitted to Civic or was that something you dug up?
I came across it while browsing the interactive map on the Civic SD website. They do a pretty good job of including the PDF drawings for each project.

http://civicsd.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=26a854fa085f4acc9574826c0553c575

[Northparkwizard]

Great photo from photographer Jim Grant (@SDjimgrant).

https://i.imgur.com/0q035OI.jpg

[SDfan]

I came across it while browsing the interactive map on the Civic SD website. They do a pretty good job of including the PDF drawings for each project.

http://civicsd.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=26a854fa085f4acc9574826c0553c575

Whoa, had not seen this map before. Thank you.

So many projects I had forgotten about. Really hoping 10th & E and 11th & E both get built. I noticed that the 10th & E project is from another Canadian developer, so that gives it a higher likelihood of being build in my opinion.

Also hoping Moderna at 14th & K gets scrapped. It's been sitting there since 2016 and is way below its max FAR potential.

[joemamma]

I came across it while browsing the interactive map on the Civic SD website. They do a pretty good job of including the PDF drawings for each project.

http://civicsd.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=26a854fa085f4acc9574826c0553c575


Another great find @sandiego_urban.


Any recent construction update photos from others wondering downtown?

[SDCAL]

I was hoping someone here would know more about the timeline. It's great seeing taller towers being built in the eastern of downtown.

Anyone know if there is any movement going on at 7th & Market yet?

I’m getting nervous about this one. I talked with someone involved with 7th/Market and they seemed iffy and alluded to more problems, but didn’t really give details. They told me it might break ground in the Fall, which was shocking because I thought all their issues were resolved and they were ready to break ground by April.

If this one falls through, that site, which is centrally located and had been a surface lot for decades, will probably remain a surface lot for another decade.

Perhaps someone can try and get more info. The person I talk to didn’t want to reveal much, but they weren’t very optimistic about it at all.

[SDfan]

I’m getting nervous about this one. I talked with someone involved with 7th/Market and they seemed iffy and alluded to more problems, but didn’t really give details. They told me it might break ground in the Fall, which was shocking because I thought all their issues were resolved and they were ready to break ground by April.

If this one falls through, that site, which is centrally located and had been a surface lot for decades, will probably remain a surface lot for another decade.

Perhaps someone can try and get more info. The person I talk to didn’t want to reveal much, but they weren’t very optimistic about it at all.

Uhhhhhhh. The train is leaving the station for this cycle. If they don't break ground by end of Q2 they're not getting built period.

[mello]

^^^^ So you dont think the courthouse redevelopment, or BOSA's semi twin to Pac Gate will be built in this current cycle.... Alexan Little Italy said Q3 or 4 start in the recent UT piece. I hope that one slides in under the trap door. :shrug:

[sandiego_urban]

Whoa, had not seen this map before. Thank you.

So many projects I had forgotten about. Really hoping 10th & E and 11th & E both get built. I noticed that the 10th & E project is from another Canadian developer, so that gives it a higher likelihood of being build in my opinion.

Also hoping Moderna at 14th & K gets scrapped. It's been sitting there since 2016 and is way below its max FAR potential.
Yeah, that map is pretty cool. And I'm also a fan of the 11th & E project.

[sandiego_urban]

I’m getting nervous about this one. I talked with someone involved with 7th/Market and they seemed iffy and alluded to more problems, but didn’t really give details. They told me it might break ground in the Fall, which was shocking because I thought all their issues were resolved and they were ready to break ground by April.

If this one falls through, that site, which is centrally located and had been a surface lot for decades, will probably remain a surface lot for another decade.

Perhaps someone can try and get more info. The person I talk to didn’t want to reveal much, but they weren’t very optimistic about it at all.
If there's one project that I'm hoping will get built before the next crash, it's this one. It would be a real shame it this one gets axed. This project is just what Market Street needs to bring it to life.......Office, hotel, condo, retail, all in one.

[SDCAL]

If there's one project that I'm hoping will get built before the next crash, it's this one. It would be a real shame it this one gets axed. This project is just what Market Street needs to bring it to life.......Office, hotel, condo, retail, all in one.

Me too. I’m hoping someone can find out more info on what the hold up is. The union issue was resolved so something else must be happening.

[vietnamprivatecar]

Good

[SDfan]

News on 7th & Market:

“Lenders are more cautious and somewhat concerned about new supply coming into the marketplace, and for larger, full-service hotels they are requiring more equity from the developers,” said Atlas CEO Alan Reay.

“Secondly, the cost of construction, including the cost of raw materials and labor, has skyrocketed. One of the negatives of a very strong economy is the labor pool is very small in terms of finding people to work on your project so contractors are bidding high to find labor. If you’re not out of the ground today, I think it’s going to be a tough situation.”

In Southern California, Atlas says there are more than 90,000 hotel rooms in various stages of planning, including more than 17,000 in San Diego County, but it’s likely that only a fraction of those will ultimately move forward.

Cisterra, a San Diego-based developer, has long had plans to build a Ritz Carlton in downtown San Diego, but the $450 million project, which also includes office space, housing and a gourmet market, was delayed by a union-backed legal challenge. That litigation, though, has been settled, and Cisterra has now been trying to land financing.

Cisterra Project Principal Jason Wood said Tuesday that he is optimistic about securing financing by the end of this quarter.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-hotel-development-california-20190109-story.html

[staplesla]

"Doubling down on a mission to connect public transportation to the airport, San Diego’s mayor and the county’s transit chief have landed on a 71-acre, airport- and freeway-adjacent site that they see as the region’s utopian transit hub of tomorrow....Specifics are slim, but the early plan, as outlined by Ikhrata and strongly advocated for by Faulconer, would combine the SPAWAR land with the existing Old Town Transit Center to create a 120-acre, mixed-use development. That project would be theoretically funded by multiple regional agencies and developed through a public-private partnership. As envisioned, the Grand Central transit hub would sit at the nexus of a larger project (with to-be-determined housing and office elements), and bring together all current and future rail options. Included in the hub would be a people mover to shuttle commuters to and from San Diego International Airport’s two terminals, Ikhrata said."

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-airport-connection-grand-central-spawar-20190111-story.html

http://www.trbimg.com/img-5c38047e/turbine/sd-1547175029-ax2gvaalrz-snap-image/750/750x422

[Nv_2897]

Does anyone know whats the status on the Coronado Bridge Lighting project I know they delayed it but does anyone know if its even active anymore?
https://i.imgur.com/CJab9Lt.jpg

[CaliNative]

As I said in the original post, it's the Manchester Pacific Gateway. Largest project in SD history, 8 blocks worth of High/Mid rises.

http://www.manchesterpacificgateway.com/images/renderings/slider4.jpg

Don't expect to see much more than a dirt patch when you visit though, it's a 4 year project and they're not even done with the underground portions yet.

I wish the tallest of the towers went up to (or close to) the 500' height limit. Instead it seems to stop short, at maybe 400 feet? Correct me if I'm wrong. Otherwise good.

[CaliNative]

Can't get over how the SD skyline has grown over the last 20 years.

[JerellO]

I wish the tallest of the towers went up to (or close to) the 500' height limit. Instead it seems to stop short, at maybe 400 feet? Correct me if I'm wrong. Otherwise good.

I liked the previous design much better. It looked very much more 1940s era Art Deco. The current design seems to have more of a resemblance to the steel and glass residential towers going up. But it’s still great development for downtown.

[Steadfast]

That Manchester rendering looks like it's got a couple of 'super talls' off in the background.
Artistic license? Or do they know something..... Ha!!

[mello]

Are you guys still worried about 7th and Market now after reading the Cisterra quote in the recent UT write up? Seems to me like the economy will hold at least until the summer so the project should get financing soon. Remember Manchester went through the same issue after all the legal challenges were done they had to resecure funding. My hope is we get a China agreement and back off on the trade war in the next couple months and the economy gets 6 to nine months of juice and then the big collapse in early 2020. If the China thing doesn't get resolved i see sharp downturn starting this summer. What do you guys think?

[SDCAL]

Are you guys still worried about 7th and Market now after reading the Cisterra quote in the recent UT write up? Seems to me like the economy will hold at least until the summer so the project should get financing soon. Remember Manchester went through the same issue after all the legal challenges were done they had to resecure funding. My hope is we get a China agreement and back off on the trade war in the next couple months and the economy gets 6 to nine months of juice and then the big collapse in early 2020. If the China thing doesn't get resolved i see sharp downturn starting this summer. What do you guys think?

I’m going to be nervous about it until they break ground. Every day I drive by there and think I can’t wait until I see them roping off that nasty surface lot to start prepping the site.

It just seems like that site has inherrantly had more problems over the years than any other. It’s probably because it’s city owned land, but in any case I am nervous about it yet cautiously optimistic. I think any company that’s trying to secure funding has to be confident when talking to the media, but are they really that confident in the funding behind closed doors? Who knows. Fingers have been crossed for a long time and remain crossed :)

[sandiego_urban]

I came across a different rendering of the Horton Plaza redevelopment and it's great to see two office towers in the background. As you may recall, there is potential to add another 1.5 million square feet of office space if the project is successful.

According to the link below, a new food hall will be built on the ground floor where an optometrist office is currently located (Closer to the Westin hotel). It's too bad the hall isn't opening in front of the park, but 'm guessing they have grander plans for that area?


https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7806/32883521418_bc876d594e_o.png

https://www.sandiegoville.com/2019/01/a-new-food-hall-is-coming-to-downtown.html#more

[sandiego_urban]

Does anyone know whats the status on the Coronado Bridge Lighting project I know they delayed it but does anyone know if its even active anymore?


I believe it's still active but there are some who don't want to light it up because it may increase the number of suicides? Really?

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/public-safety/coronado-bridge-lighting-project-moves-forward-despite-suicide-concerns/

[HurricaneHugo]

I came across a different rendering of the Horton Plaza redevelopment and it's great to see two office towers in the background. As you may recall, there is potential to add another 1.5 million square feet of office space if the project is successful.

According to the link below, a new food hall will be built on the ground floor where an optometrist office is currently located (Closer to the Westin hotel). It's too bad the hall isn't opening in front of the park, but 'm guessing they have grander plans for that area?


https://www.sandiegoville.com/2019/01/a-new-food-hall-is-coming-to-downtown.html#more

Anybody remember the InterContinental hotel that was going to be build on the southern surface parking lot?

Would have been interesting

[JerellO]

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/government/begun-the-yimby-war-has/

This is HUGE!!! It maybenot apply to downtown but the uptown areas as well as other areas close to trolley stops may increase height limits. I feel a lot of us would need to attend meetings and voice our support for increased density and the removal of height limits to better accommodate families and indinivuals looking for homes closer to to transit stops.

[Will O' Wisp]

Can't get over how the SD skyline has grown over the last 20 years.

I wonder if this is what NYC felt like at the turn of the century. I scarcely recognize the city of my childhood, with a skyline described as an 'empty toolbox' and a waterfront with nothing but parking lots. San Diego finally feels like a real city, will all that implies. Not just a collection of scuzzy traps to part sailors on shore leave with their hard-earned cash and a naval retirement community, but the economic and cultural center of an entire region.

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/government/begun-the-yimby-war-has/

This is HUGE!!! It maybenot apply to downtown but the uptown areas as well as other areas close to trolley stops may increase height limits. I feel a lot of us would need to attend meetings and voice our support for increased density and the removal of height limits to better accommodate families and indinivuals looking for homes closer to to transit stops.

I like Falconer's sentiment, but I'll hold off on congratulations until I see those words translated into actions.

[Will O' Wisp]

There's a hugely important news story happening right now that's oddly not really being covered. The Metro Water Authority has started draining Lake Mead (https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/science-environment/things-are-getting-crazy-on-the-colorado-river/).

Per a 1922 agreement if the water levels in Lake Mead are below a certain point at the first of the year CA and AZ are required to start rationing water from the Colorado river. Mead's water levels have been declining for years as both states have been overdrawing from the Colorado. Metro in particular has been overdrawing as a matter of course for decades, to the point that SoCal doesn't really have a good understanding of how much water they reliably have access to. It's actually a fraction of what Metro provides now. Since Metro has apparently decided that rationing is probably going to go into effect anyway, now that the 1st of the year has passed they're topping up every reservoir they can. That decision removed whatever slim chance there was to avoid rationing, it's all but assured to go into effect in Jan 2020. Expect a major legal battle between CA and AZ then, but also brutal fights amongst Metro's local customers their ration of water.

Good news for us San Diegans is that we've made some preparations. We collect about 10% of our water locally, the desalination plant in Carlsbad covers about 10%, and Pure Water should cover 10% by 2021 (and 30% by 2035). Another 50% should come from a contract with the Imperial Valley Water District, which gets its own ration of Colorado river water and now has to share half with SD. So SD is going to be fighting for 20% of its water until Pure Water finishes, after which it can tell Metro to go screw itself. That will lead to a certain spike in water prices, but less than most of the LA and OC county water districts which are completely dependent on Metro's ration.

[HurricaneHugo]

Avoid the UTC area for a week starting Feb. 8

They're closing La Jolla Village Drive at Genesse Ave

https://www.10news.com/traffic-armageddon-la-jolla-village-drive-at-genesee-to-close-for-a-week-next-month?fbclid=IwAR30Pz4voZZ0jWeRP5o0Ab8mgR34X3ha8YChZLStm6Lhk2tVCcwRwjcZlck

[Nv_2897]

Jimbo's asks court to halt Horton Plaza redevelopment
UT Article: https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-jimbos-horton-plaza-lawsuit-stockdale-20190125-story.html

I hope this doesn't affect the Horton Plaza redevelopment the area desperately needs it.

[Steadfast]

Yeah, I hope it's just the owner's way of ensuring no one drops a crane on his front step... Or walls the store off from the street somehow.
....which, is smart of him IMHO.

In the long run, the redevelopment is so much better for their business. Trying to drum up foot traffic at the mall (as is) seems futile.

[CaliNative]

The diagrams page is missing some new buildings, some completed. For example, no drawing/data for Ballpark Village tower. Several other examples. Are they short of artists? Other cities seem to be updated more promptly, even when a building is still under construction. Get to work artists. Maybe somebody with more time can compile a list of new buildings that need to be in the diagrams section that aren't there. There must be 5 or 10 over 300 feet, and a couple over 400' that are missing.

[RST500]

Jimbo's asks court to halt Horton Plaza redevelopment
UT Article: https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-jimbos-horton-plaza-lawsuit-stockdale-20190125-story.html

I hope this doesn't affect the Horton Plaza redevelopment the area desperately needs it.


I don't understand why there is no historic preservation opposition to demolishing Horton Plaza. I could understand supporting redevelopment if there were to be skyscrapers but this project is basically a bland office part with no aesthetic value or density. Ideally Horton Plaza would be preserved and highrises would be built on the sides. Some retail could be converted to office space but the unique aesthetic has to be preserved.

[Puzzlecraft]

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2019/jan/25/st-pauls-cathedral-bankers-hill-6th-olive/

Approved:
https://www.kusi.com/san-diego-city-council-approves-bankers-hill-housing-development/

[spoonman]

Great! Was the height limit raised in Bankers Hill?

[superfishy]

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2019/jan/25/st-pauls-cathedral-bankers-hill-6th-olive/

Approved:
https://www.kusi.com/san-diego-city-council-approves-bankers-hill-housing-development/

The guy arguing against it makes a good point. They're demolishing a current affordable housing apartment complex and replacing it with a tower that houses only 18 affordable units out of 204.

[Puzzlecraft]

I think the 200 footer was a variance and the limit is still officially 150

[SDfan]

The guy arguing against it makes a good point. They're demolishing a current affordable housing apartment complex and replacing it with a tower that houses only 18 affordable units out of 204.

Actually his comment is false. Those 16 units were market rate, not affordable. Yes, they may have been more affordable than a new development, but they would have increased in rent over time while becoming more dilapidated. Instead, this development not only locks in 18 units of affordable housing for 55 years, it provides new units at a higher quality for low income families.

They really tried to throw the book at this project, but the council and community pushed back decisively.

[SDfan]

The diagrams page is missing some new buildings, some completed. For example, no drawing/data for Ballpark Village tower. Several other examples. Are they short of artists? Other cities seem to be updated more promptly, even when a building is still under construction. Get to work artists. Maybe somebody with more time can compile a list of new buildings that need to be in the diagrams section that aren't there. There must be 5 or 10 over 300 feet, and a couple over 400' that are missing.

I don't think anyone active here has worked on the SD diagram. If I knew how, I would, but eh. I welcome others to try!

[staplesla]

The Port of San Diego is encouraging the public to complete a survey that will help guide priorities for future amenities in the Embarcadero area. The survey is available until January 31, 2019. I received this in an email from a NIMBY telling me to vote for retail/office and restaurants, and against parks and cultural arts. ������

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/Embarcadero-Planning-District-Public-Stakeholder-Questionnaire

[Streamliner]

I don't think anyone active here has worked on the SD diagram. If I knew how, I would, but eh. I welcome others to try!

There is a forum for the diagrams. I suggest someone post there.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/forumdisplay.php?f=81

[staplesla]

"Taking up an entire city block in Little Italy, the mixed-use Kilroy Realty development known as 2100 Kettner will be the neighborhood’s single largest office building when it’s completed late next year."

"The six-story low-rise — bounded by Kettner, Ivy, Hawthorne and California streets — will consist primarily of best-in-class office with 177,479 square feet of the 195,974 square-foot building (209,203 square feet when counting terraces) dedicated to the workforce. The next largest office building in the area, the ESET building at 610 W Ash St., offers a total of 177,489 square feet with some of that space allocated for ground-floor retail, according to real-estate tracker CoStar."

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-little-italy-office-kettner-hawthrone-20190201-story.html

http://www.trbimg.com/img-5c54a042/turbine/sd-1549049918-def1muwu2w-snap-image/750/750x422

[Will O' Wisp]

Bids are in for the Plaza de Panama redo are in, lowest one is 40% higher than expected.

Bids to Remake the Plaza de Panama Are $20M Higher Than Expected (https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/government/bids-to-remake-the-plaza-de-panama-are-20m-higher-than-expected/)

According to the article the overrrun will need to be payed for by the philanthropic donors (ie Irwin Jacobs).

[HurricaneHugo]

MTS planning of making the Purple Line (805 Trolley Line) the focus of a 2020 ballot measure.

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/land-use/the-red-flags-in-the-purple-line-plans/

I agree with the article, it shouldn't be up next. A North Park extension is the most logical choice. Costs are similar but I expect it to have about double the riders.

[202_Cyclist]

California Pacific Airlines, we hardly knew ye.

California Pacific Airlines shuts down after 2 months
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-cal-pacific-fin-20190201-story.html

[mello]

MTS planning of making the Purple Line (805 Trolley Line) the focus of a 2020 ballot measure.

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/land-use/the-red-flags-in-the-purple-line-plans/

I agree with the article, it shouldn't be up next. A North Park extension is the most logical choice. Costs are similar but I expect it to have about double the riders.

"North Park Extension" don't you mean a line going up in to Hillcrest then all the way out through City Heights to La Mesa? This would go up El Cajon Blvd I'm assuming.

[Will O' Wisp]

"North Park Extension" don't you mean a line going up in to Hillcrest then all the way out through City Heights to La Mesa? This would go up El Cajon Blvd I'm assuming.

All the plans I've seen involve going up through Balboa Park via Park Blvd, then hanging a right on El Cajon. Some of them seem to end at the 15, the rest continue on until turning north on College Ave to link up with the green line at SDSU

[SDCAL]

MTS planning of making the Purple Line (805 Trolley Line) the focus of a 2020 ballot measure.

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/land-use/the-red-flags-in-the-purple-line-plans/

I agree with the article, it shouldn't be up next. A North Park extension is the most logical choice. Costs are similar but I expect it to have about double the riders.

This is actually a really informative article that lays out the reason, with supporting facts and examples from other cities, why building transit based on which routes are easiest to build is a crappy idea.

SANDAG should listen to this. One reason our mass transit is horrendous is because SD has taken the idea to build transit first and the try to force high density in those places instead of building it where high density already exists.

The most efficient and most used metro transit systems are ones where all the major routes pass through a central location, which for us would be downtown. Trying to build the “purple” line instead of a line in our urban core because it’s easier to build along the I-805 corridor is ridiculous.

As much as I hate to vote against mass transit, I can’t in good conscious vote for BAD mass transit, which is exactly what this is.

To have a line running up the 805 but nothing going to the airport, nothing going to B park, nothing going into uptown is asinine.

[joemamma]

California Pacific Airlines, we hardly knew ye.

California Pacific Airlines shuts down after 2 months
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-cal-pacific-fin-20190201-story.html

"If you want to be a Millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline" - Richard Branson

[mello]

As much as I hate to vote against mass transit, I can’t in good conscious vote for BAD mass transit, which is exactly what this is.

To have a line running up the 805 but nothing going to the airport, nothing going to B park, nothing going into uptown is asinine.

So looking at this Purple Line hmmm. If Kearny Mesa was as big of a job hub as Sorrento Valley/Mesa or UTC (Not saying both combined but just one or the other) I would say its a good idea. But not that many people really work in Kearny Mesa, a lot do but not enough to justify the cost of this line and building it instead of Uptown and in my opinion at least to College Ave, really it should be all the way out El Cajon BLVD to La Mesa Village.

How many people live in South Bay and work in Kearny Mesa? Maybe they work in Mission Valley but this line will be going hundreds of feet over MV on the 805 bridge and not really providing good access plus the MV job centers are so sprawling ugh...

Why is the line going through the heart of the city so hard to get built what is the excuse?

[Will O' Wisp]

So looking at this Purple Line hmmm. If Kearny Mesa was as big of a job hub as Sorrento Valley/Mesa or UTC (Not saying both combined but just one or the other) I would say its a good idea. But not that many people really work in Kearny Mesa, a lot do but not enough to justify the cost of this line and building it instead of Uptown and in my opinion at least to College Ave, really it should be all the way out El Cajon BLVD to La Mesa Village.

How many people live in South Bay and work in Kearny Mesa? Maybe they work in Mission Valley but this line will be going hundreds of feet over MV on the 805 bridge and not really providing good access plus the MV job centers are so sprawling ugh...

Why is the line going through the heart of the city so hard to get built what is the excuse?

I don't know why they're depicting the line dead ending in Kearny Mesa. The whole point of the Purple line was that is was going to continue on along the 805, intersect with the new Blue Line terminus in UTC (how exactly this happens was always a bit vague) before ending in Sorrento Valley. That's why it always gets such high cost/benefit ratios, the Purple Line would hit all three major SD job centers.

[Nerv]

MTS planning of making the Purple Line (805 Trolley Line) the focus of a 2020 ballot measure.

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/land-use/the-red-flags-in-the-purple-line-plans/

I agree with the article, it shouldn't be up next. A North Park extension is the most logical choice. Costs are similar but I expect it to have about double the riders.

I would have thought continuing the line from UTC and finally breaking into the north county down the jammed up 5 and ending in Oceanside would get the highest ridership of any new lines unless the thought is to leave the entire north county orphaned from the trolley due to the coaster line?

Kind of idiotic if the trolley is San Diego’s Key mass transit system into the future and they are going to ignore a large portion of its population base. The latest option of expansion of the 5 (the minimum version) is telling on how residents here view any future freeway expansions and the coaster although kind of solid is not the future unless they can add more Key stop points, get it faster and have a better plan in place if you need to go somewhere besides the coast line.

Way to go in ignoring nearly a million of your residents....:uhh:

[CaliNative]

I would have thought continuing the line from UTC and finally breaking into the north county down the jammed up 5 and ending in Oceanside would get the highest ridership of any new lines unless the thought is to leave the entire north county orphaned from the trolley due to the coaster line?

Kind of idiotic if the trolley is San Diego’s Key mass transit system into the future and they are going to ignore a large portion of its population base. The latest option of expansion of the 5 (the minimum version) is telling on how residents here view any future freeway expansions and the coaster although kind of solid is not the future unless they can add more Key stop points, get it faster and have a better plan in place if you need to go somewhere besides the coast line.

Way to go in ignoring nearly a million of your residents....:uhh:

Extend the one of the north trolley lines up the I-15 corridor, where it would connect to the Sprinter terminus in Escondido. From there, the Sprinter takes you to San Marcos, Vista, Oceanside. Wouldn't have to rely on slow buses or the often out of service Coaster to get to San Diego. Ultimately, a coastal extension of the trolley could be built along the I-5 all the way to Oceanside, and replace the Coaster.

[Nerv]

Extend the one of the north trolley lines up the I-15 corridor, where it would connect to the Sprinter terminus in Escondido. From there, the Sprinter takes you to San Marcos, Vista, Oceanside. Wouldn't have to rely on slow buses or the often out of service Coaster to get to San Diego. Ultimately, a coastal extension of the trolley could be built along the I-5 all the way to Oceanside, and replace the Coaster.

I don’t see them considering a trolley line fully along the 15 anytime soon though. The subject of adding a third rail line along the 15 (to link with Sprinter) was already brought up and it won’t happen due to the current density along the 15 not being enough to support regular transit. A good portion of the 15’s traffic is actually caused by non SD residents who can’t afford to live here but commute
from Riverside county. Not sure how much an impact it is but it’s large enough and been happening for some time now. The north county coast is pretty built up in SD with largely infill projects going on but the inland areas still have a ways to go with possible growth.

Perhaps with the state being much more aggressive with housing (lawsuits for cities not complying) and NIMBYs starting to lose more often than before some of that might change.

[mt_climber13]

Hey all new here, sorry to hijack the thread but this is probably one of the best places on the internet to ask.

I’ll be moving to San Diego in months and looking for insights on neighborhoods to move. I want something pretty affordable (no more than $2,000 for 2 bedroom) and also moving with 2 large dogs so a small yard is necessary. Will be working on the navy base so something within biking distance and light rail access to downtown. Want to live close to water where it’s cooler and don’t have to use AC much.

What are some realistic options? Chula Vista seems to be a pretty decent working class town with everything I’m looking for. Only heard bad things about national city but that was several years ago. Balboa park would be ideal but probably out of my price range.

Also, how is the rail system throughout SD? Looking at the map it looks pretty impressive, even more so than San Francisco. Does it have a frequent schedule? Does it go places you’d actually want or need to go? Or is it more a novelty?

Thanks in advance