SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[roletand]

It's nice to see this project moving along now. What has it been, 4 years to get to this point where multiple structures are about to go vertical?

Agreed, it's great to see things happening at the RaDD site. They were originally targeting 2023 completion for parts of the project which is already next year!

[roletand]

It looks like forms for the V shaped concrete supports are going up at the Courthouse Commons site.

https://i.imgur.com/EJ6xXUv.jpeg

Renders here https://carrierjohnson.com/works/courthouse-commons/

[Will O' Wisp]

Here's a commentary I wrote:

The Driverless Alternative to an Airport Trolley Extension

Alex Wong

Voice of San Diego

January 14, 2022

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/opinion/the-driverless-alternative-to-an-airport-trolley-extension/


Nice job dude! I still believe a trolley extension is unlikely to be built over an APM regardless, but I respect the heck out of taking the time to lay all this out for the public to see. We need more citizens like you :tup:

[CaliNative]

The project between Union & Front St on W Ash is the Alexan Little Italy apartment building. According to the proposed plans, it should top out around 407 feet with 36 floors.

For relative height, the Luma building two blocks down is about 260-270 feet tall.

Thanks

[IrvineNative]

An update on the Costa Verde redevelopment. Can anyone with a subscription tell me when the article says construction will begin?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/story/2022-01-14/life-science-developer-buys-costa-verde-strip-mall-near-utc%3F_amp%3Dtrue&ved=2ahUKEwiLweLJ-MD1AhWqJEQIHVHbC1wQFnoECBYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0DtOkUy06oAR76nTGhFbD5

The Facebook page for Riverwalk San Diego has a January 7 post saying construction will begin in April.

https://m.facebook.com/pg/riverwalksd/posts/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0

Why does permitting take so long? The project was approved in November 2020, that's 18 months of permitting! Seems like in San Diego once things break ground things get built fast, it's just the permitting that takes an eternity. Could CEQA be to blame again?

[SDfan]

An update on the Costa Verde redevelopment. Can anyone with a subscription tell me when the article says construction will begin?

Article:

Leading biotech office builder Alexandria Real Estate has purchased the Costa Verde Center, a strip mall opposite Westfield UTC, to amplify its vision for a life science campus connected to the trolley line and its nearby properties.

The previous property owner, Jacksonville-based Regency Centers, said in a press release this week that it sold the 13.9-acre site — sandwiched between La Jolla Village Drive and Nobel Drive at 8560 Genesee Ave. — for $125 million. Dan Ryan, who is co-chief investment officer for Alexandria, confirmed the deal, which closed on Jan. 12.

“This is absolutely one of the best sites on the West Coast,” Ryan told the Union-Tribune. “It’ll go from being an old, dilapidated retail center to a vibrant, exciting community center and we’re really enthusiastic for the potential of the site.”

The Costa Verde Center, built in 1989, is a grocery-anchored, neighborhood shopping center that is best known for its McDonald’s, Chevron and Bristol Farms, although parts of the strip mall are now vacant ahead of a long-planned revitalization. The site is at the terminus of the all-new UC San Diego Blue Line, where an elevated platform connects to both Westfield UTC on the west and the Costa Verde site on the east.

Regency and Alexandria were, until recently, working together in a joint venture to overhaul the property as a transit-connected urban job center complemented by community shops, restaurants and a hotel. In November 2020, the partners secured City Council approval for a community plan amendment, allowing them to add 400,000 square feet of office and lab space and a 200-room hotel on top of the site’s already entitled 178,000 square feet of retail space.

That plan remains intact for the time being, although Alexandria is reviewing its options, Ryan said.

In documents filed with the Securities and Exchange, the prolific life science lab developer said it was planning to form a “mega campus” by tying Costa Verde’s office and lab offering to the firm’s other properties in the adjacent area.

“We recently completed the re-entitlement process and expect to develop 680,000 (square feet) of Class A office/laboratory space that will combine with our existing University District properties to form a mega campus aggregating 1.7 million (square feet), upon expiration of the existing in-place leases in 2022,” the company said in a Jan. 5 filing.

Pasadena-based Alexandria has $28.6 billion in assets and expects to acquire another $3 billion of real estate in 2022, according to regulatory filings. In San Diego, the life science developer oversees 8.4 million square feet of space spread across 103 properties, with its holdings concentrated in Torrey Pines, University City and Sorrento Mesa.

In the University City submarket, Alexandria owns a number of properties northwest of the mall, as well as a collection of in-development sites along Campus Pointe Drive. Ryan said the developer would use a shuttle system to transport workers to and from Costa Verde, providing easy access to the new trolley line.

The developer expects to break ground on the Costa Verde project in the second half of 2022 and complete construction in 30 months.

Alexandria recently disclosed in regulatory filings “historic” demand for space, reporting record leasing activity in 2021. The company leased 9.5 million square feet of space during the year. Its previous annual leasing record was 5 million square feet.

[mello]

Wow so it sounds like the delay was because they are actually going a bit more ambitious with what they originally planned and also the leases need to expire on everyone in that retail center.

Irvine Native: Were you talking about permitting for the UTC Biotech project has taken 18 months or the RiverWalk Mission Valley site?

[IrvineNative]

Wow so it sounds like the delay was because they are actually going a bit more ambitious with what they originally planned and also the leases need to expire on everyone in that retail center.

Irvine Native: Were you talking about permitting for the UTC Biotech project has taken 18 months or the RiverWalk Mission Valley site?

Good news, increasing the office space from 400k to 680k! Office TOD generates more ridership than residential TOD does. 1 million sq ft office space will hold more people than 1 million sq ft of residential, because cubicles are smaller than apartments. Plus, no one lives at an office, so everyone commutes, while with apartments teleworkers, children, and retirees will stay at home.

Yes, my question was why Riverwalk is taking 18 months from approval to permitting.

[dirt patch]

Downtown should get several more underway and that would be pretty much it. Hopefully, Bosa would continue his development spree.

[roletand]

Another tower crane went up on the RaDD site, closest to Broadway & Pacific Hwy! It looks like they're up to 4 cranes now.

[SAN Man]

Another tower crane went up on the RaDD site, closest to Broadway & Pacific Hwy! It looks like they're up to 4 cranes now.

The construction site is impressive. If you count the smallish crane (not a tower crane) near Broadway, there are 5 now.

[negentropic behavior]

Does anyone have information or know of current proposals for the north half of the block between G St. and Market, between 10th and 11th? There is an existing 2 story building next to vacant warehouse, a smog check/auto repair shop, and that vacant 3 story apartment building (Yale House or something) that has been boarded up for years.

They put up a construction fence around the 2 story home that is across 10th St. where the Radian/Target building is under construction. I think they're about to demo the 2 story building.

[JSW]

Simone (https://webmaps.sandiego.gov/portal/sharing/rest/content/items/e6e8cd16a4e04b5699f8d28054c77ee8/data) (formerly Union & Ash) in Little Italy flying up fast now, and glass is already being installed. This one should make a big impact on the skyline coming into downtown from the 5 from the north.

https://i.imgur.com/tx7vK3V.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/Ee1gTZP.jpeg

[Streamliner]

^ Oh wow, it will be nice to have some more height/density there!

Though I'm curious how the crane will fit once it nears the top. Didn't the Central Courthouse have some crane drama with the FAA that resulted in a stop work order? This building is almost 20 feet taller and 3 blocks closer to SAN's flight path than that one.

[SDfan]

^ Oh wow, it will be nice to have some more height/density there!

Though I'm curious how the crane will fit once it nears the top. Didn't the Central Courthouse have some crane drama with the FAA that resulted in a stop work order? This building is almost 20 feet taller and 3 blocks closer to SAN's flight path than that one.

I thought about that too, but it looks like they're using a traditional tower crane for their project. The courthouse had four cranes, whose arms would point upward of 700 feet when not in use. That caused the FAA heartburn. In contrast these more traditional keep their arms horizontal, meaning they're not much taller than the towers they're constructing.

[SDfan]

Does anyone have information or know of current proposals for the north half of the block between G St. and Market, between 10th and 11th? There is an existing 2 story building next to vacant warehouse, a smog check/auto repair shop, and that vacant 3 story apartment building (Yale House or something) that has been boarded up for years.

They put up a construction fence around the 2 story home that is across 10th St. where the Radian/Target building is under construction. I think they're about to demo the 2 story building.

I feel like there was a tower proposal there some time ago, but it never took off. Sometimes developers get entitlements to spook more institutional builders into buying them out (Pinnacle ala Pacific Heights, Bosa ala Diegan). Whenever I see a LLC or small developer with no experience proposing a high-rise project, my eye brows raise.

[BuildSanDiego]

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2022-01-28/san-diegos-sports-arena-site-is-up-for-grabs-here-are-the-5-contenders…..Here is the complete list of developers that are competing for the Sports Arena site. Hope I did this right.

[Streamliner]

Because I like renders, here's a few from the article:

Discover Midway (Brookfield)
https://archive.is/Rj1h0/94c6e3924b535df6bb30d0020cbae6893c074b6e.jpg

HomeTownSD (Monarch Group/Essex Property:
https://archive.is/Rj1h0/76ab767e44abefa1943f47c7e981d0adfa47ca21.png

Midway Rising (Zephyr Partners):
https://archive.is/Rj1h0/a7d1a72e9529089d89c93aae65cbea24f10111f6.jpg

Midway Village+ (Toll Brothers):
https://archive.is/Rj1h0/f436ec26ec8f989bbf241b7c7605d363fe5e5d00.jpg

Neighborhood Next (ConAm Group):
https://archive.is/Rj1h0/908aebac153ea888b80dbc4f08bf1b4a087f124c.jpg

[HurricaneHugo]

I pick 3. New arena. Lots of housing. The arena itself is meh but eh

[SAN Man]

I like the last picture, but that will never happen.

[sentinel]

That Brookfield arena proposal looks like a bunch of napkins on a table

https://archive.is/Rj1h0/94c6e3924b535df6bb30d0020cbae6893c074b6e.jpg:yuck:

[eburress]

^^ Seriously. What's even the point of creating renders like that? They're like concept art for a science fiction movie.

[eburress]

That Brookfield arena proposal looks like a bunch of napkins on a table

https://archive.is/Rj1h0/94c6e3924b535df6bb30d0020cbae6893c074b6e.jpg:yuck:

Or a turtle, stuck on its back.

[sentinel]

Or a turtle, stuck on its back.

Omg lol
Cannot unsee it now :haha:

[SamFlood]

San Diego(ans) needs to get over the fear of building big. Whether its housing or facilities.

[JSW]

That Brookfield arena proposal looks like a bunch of napkins on a table

https://archive.is/Rj1h0/94c6e3924b535df6bb30d0020cbae6893c074b6e.jpg:yuck:

Ok but guys... look at the inclusion of the pedestrian overpass crossing to let residents easily get across the 8! Thats huge. Forget the designs of the arena and housing... this is a proposal and those specifics will likely change dramatically. People need to rally around ideas that make this city more liveable because without more pedestrian friendly ideas like this, I cannot even imagine living in that area.

[SamFlood]

this city map has an updated satellite image


https://sandiego.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=3057676023954a828ad92ef22b5ff349


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51855830529_3e2b009c17_b.jpg

[Nerv]

Build any of them but the HometownSD plan. Tiny arena is a step backwards and defeats the purpose…

[Streamliner]

Ok but guys... look at the inclusion of the pedestrian overpass crossing to let residents easily get across the 8! Thats huge. Forget the designs of the arena and housing... this is a proposal and those specifics will likely change dramatically. People need to rally around ideas that make this city more liveable because without more pedestrian friendly ideas like this, I cannot even imagine living in that area.

It looks like the Neighborhood Next proposal also has an overpass. Based on the location, it looks like these would connect to the San Diego River Bikeway. If that's the case, and unless it's a required feature, I imagine that would be the first part of the design to fall victim to cost cutting measures. You'd be dealing with Caltrans ROW and likely waterway permitting due to the lack of space on the north side of the 8.

[Streamliner]

UC San Diego's Pepper Canyon West residential towers were approved and are now set for construction. They're 22/23 stories (~230-40 feet tall), right next to the university's Trolley station. They should make for a nice gateway to the campus. Renders from the environmental doc:

https://i.imgur.com/Ad6oPIp.png

https://i.imgur.com/4CJzUXZ.png

https://i.imgur.com/FnoEqmX.png

[Steadfast]

Fencing is going up around the parking lot at 8th & B. Looks like we can expect another big development to get underway soon. The area just south of Symphony Tower is going to be dramatically different in a couple of years...

[SAN Man]

Fencing is going up around the parking lot at 8th & B. Looks like we can expect another big development to get underway soon. The area just south of Symphony Tower is going to be dramatically different in a couple of years...

Oh wow, any information on the size and scope of the development?

B Street is turning into quite a nice canyon.

[JSW]

Fencing is going up around the parking lot at 8th & B. Looks like we can expect another big development to get underway soon. The area just south of Symphony Tower is going to be dramatically different in a couple of years...

8th & B is supposed to be 40 stories and will look like this according to permits filed:

https://webdocs.sandiego.gov/public/CivicSDMapping/Files/8th_&_B.png

So yea, B street cluster is getting clustery..er.

[homebucket]

UC San Diego's Pepper Canyon West residential towers were approved and are now set for construction. They're 22/23 stories (~230-40 feet tall), right next to the university's Trolley station. They should make for a nice gateway to the campus. Renders from the environmental doc:

Not a big fan of those vertical stripes but the new housing is welcome and I like that it's next to the Trolley station.

[Streamliner]

Speaking of that corner, whatever happened to the second tower of The Rey? Did they just give up on it? I thought maybe it'd be a year behind the first, but it's been years now and I don't see anything.

[JerellO]

Speaking of that corner, whatever happened to the second tower of The Rey? Did they just give up on it? I thought maybe it'd be a year behind the first, but it's been years now and I don't see anything.

Honestly I’m completely fine if they don’t build the second tower, too many twin towers already in the city. I think they should sell it to someone else and have another developer build a different tower to add a better depth of density by having it be of different design and height

[mello]

I'm loving the prominent cluster that will form in that section of downtown around Symphony Towers. Too bad BOSA is being a punk and not building on the empty lot in front of Santa Fe station, I would much rather have that Pacific Gate semi Twin breaking ground over the one he is starting now. How about you guys :shrug:

[SAN Man]

Speaking of that corner, whatever happened to the second tower of The Rey? Did they just give up on it? I thought maybe it'd be a year behind the first, but it's been years now and I don't see anything.

I was disappointed with the overall height of The Rey. I'd like to see something a little taller on the remaining half of the block. But yeah, like you said, I can't believe that second half has sat empty for so long. In it's current state it's such an awkward feel with half of it going up Cortez Hill and the lower half a surface parking lot.

https://goo.gl/maps/FNLw9oNrtaS43hNv5

[Streamliner]

Interesting article in the U-T:

Court sides with San Diego developer: Certain housing projects are exempt from local restrictions
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2022-02-04/san-diego-apartment-complex-case-leads-to-possible-statewide-housing-change-of-density-bonuses

A court case involving a new apartment complex going up in Bankers Hill might have statewide implications for builders that include subsidized units in their projects.

A state appeals court ruled last month that the new luxury 525 Olive building overlooking Balboa Park was allowed to be 25 percent taller after it agreed to include 18 subsidized apartments for low-income residents. The ruling came as a result of community groups suing the project over its height.

The court took it a step further this week by certifying the ruling as precedent for all of California, at the insistence of the statewide California Building Industry Association and its Bay Area affiliate, as first reported by the San Francisco Chronicle.

For San Diego, the ruling might not be as noticeable as in the rest of the state. The city has aggressively pursued zoning changes and density bonuses for a decade during the building boom downtown. The ruling will likely now clear the way and speed up proposed projects that often face legal action, said Nathan Moeder, a San Diego housing analyst.

The California law that allows for extra height if subsidized units are included has been on the books since 1979. However, Moeder said it is frequently challenged in courts by neighborhoods that oppose taller buildings.

“It’s like saying: Can we all just save ourselves a step of a lawsuit and going through the appeal process for a year or two years,” he said. “Each time this comes up, the state can now say: This was already shot down. There’s precedent. You can’t sue for this reason.”



https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/148ccd7/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2000x1125+0+0/resize/840x473!/format/webp/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbe%2Ff4%2F5c26323749ca8c5a4203d699eaa0%2Fbuildingphoto-3.jpg

[JerellO]

Interesting article in the U-T:

Court sides with San Diego developer: Certain housing projects are exempt from local restrictions
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2022-02-04/san-diego-apartment-complex-case-leads-to-possible-statewide-housing-change-of-density-bonuses



https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/148ccd7/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2000x1125+0+0/resize/840x473!/format/webp/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbe%2Ff4%2F5c26323749ca8c5a4203d699eaa0%2Fbuildingphoto-3.jpg

Thank the lord 🙄 my goodness… people need to chill… we’re not building the Empire State Building anywhere lol

[JSW]

Speaking of Bankers Hill, I was literally just admiring that building yesterday as I rode through the brand new protected bike lake system on 5th and 4th since it's now mostly open... and WOW. I used to live on 5th in that general area, and it was so easy to see the missed potential of the neighborhood. Now I feel like it's taken huge strides forward very quickly as 5th has taken on a road diet that makes it much safer for pedestrians and cyclists/scooters. The whole system removes the drag-strip nature of that stretch as cars are encouraged to move slower since there is a lot more restriction and visible crossing guidance. They've done a fantastic job, and now downtown feels much better connected to Bankers Hill and the park... not to mention it instantly feels like a much more vibrant and inviting neighborhood.

Finally we have a safe bike system that connects downtown to Hillcrest, but holy f**k is University one of the most insanely dangerous and incomplete bikeways.

[NoTrippin]

I snapped a few pics while I was at the USS Midway museum yesterday. I don't know how to upload the photos though.

file:///home/chronos/u-b65a1bf2ba2d42b39c5303bf71e8f7ce9d250d03/MyFiles/Downloads/IMG-2131.jpg

file:///home/chronos/u-b65a1bf2ba2d42b39c5303bf71e8f7ce9d250d03/MyFiles/Downloads/IMG-2131.pdf[URL="file:///home/chronos/u-b65a1bf2ba2d42b39c5303bf71e8f7ce9d250d03/MyFiles/Downloads/IMG-2131.pdf"]

[Streamliner]

I snapped a few pics while I was at the USS Midway museum yesterday. I don't know how to upload the photos though.

file:///home/chronos/u-b65a1bf2ba2d42b39c5303bf71e8f7ce9d250d03/MyFiles/Downloads/IMG-2131.jpg

file:///home/chronos/u-b65a1bf2ba2d42b39c5303bf71e8f7ce9d250d03/MyFiles/Downloads/IMG-2131.pdf[URL="file:///home/chronos/u-b65a1bf2ba2d42b39c5303bf71e8f7ce9d250d03/MyFiles/Downloads/IMG-2131.pdf"]

You need to upload them to a host site like flickr or imgur, then copy the URL and paste it here

[NoTrippin]

https://flic.kr/p/2n2tTwt

https://flic.kr/p/2n2tyNu
https://flic.kr/p/2n2v67S
https://flic.kr/p/2n2vcJj
https://flic.kr/p/2n2u1bW

[homebucket]

^ Links still aren't working.

[NoTrippin]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51868964938_2096e2d66a_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2n2u1bW)IMG-2132 (https://flic.kr/p/2n2u1bW) by Jay Gibbons (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194948386@N05/), on Flickr

[NoTrippin]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51869198874_773f24550b_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2n2vcJj)IMG-2129 (https://flic.kr/p/2n2vcJj) by Jay Gibbons (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194948386@N05/), on Flickrhttps://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51868879536_a909e56a2b_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2n2tyNu)IMG-2135 (https://flic.kr/p/2n2tyNu) by Jay Gibbons (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194948386@N05/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51869176634_4d0c2da41c_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2n2v67S)IMG-2131 (https://flic.kr/p/2n2v67S) by Jay Gibbons (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194948386@N05/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51868942523_899d7315ae_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2n2tTwt)IMG-2135 (https://flic.kr/p/2n2tTwt) by Jay Gibbons (https://www.flickr.com/photos/194948386@N05/), on Flickr

[Streamliner]

Those work, very nice pics! Can't wait to see that block fully built.

[Streamliner]

Over the weekend I went to a rooftop restaurant (Seneca, 19th floor of the InterContinental Hotel, very nice btw), and it had a great view of downtown and the waterfront, as well as the RaDD/IQHQ/Manchester Gateway project site. I took a few shots for posterity:

Looking south toward the RaDD/Manchester hotel construction:

https://i.imgur.com/IoHGZGl.jpg?1

Looking east down Broadway:

https://i.imgur.com/vbXDxXz.jpg?1

Looking north toward the Grande towers/Springhill Suites:

https://i.imgur.com/3AK1A5N.jpg?1

[SAN Man]

Really nice pics! Thanks guys for posting them!

[colemonkee]

Great shots! That lot with the Office Depot has to be the next target for redevelopment in that area of downtown.

[IrvineNative]

SANDAG wants to build a Blue Line rush hour Express from San Ysidro to 12th Imperial by triple tracking the line.

I've a better idea. Speed up the Blue Line through Downtown. That would benefit everyone riding the Blue Line, not just people traveling between San Ysidro to Downtown. Outside of Downtown, the Blue Line is fast. It's Downtown where the Blue Line is very slow.

Ideally, we should build a Downtown tunnel for the Blue Line. But money is limited. So build a track connection between the Blue and Green Lines at 12th and Imperial. Through downtown, have the Blue Line share tracks with the current Green Line. The Blue Line will run nonstop (express) between 12th/Imperial and Santa Fe. The Green Line will continue to operate local, stopping at Convention Center, Seaport Village, and Gaslamp. To make transfers easy, increase all trolley frequencies from 15 min to 7.5 min.

The Blue Line will no longer serve City College. But if we increase Orange Line frequencies from 15 min. to 7.5 min. and give trolleys full signal priority the transfer from Blue to Orange Line will be pretty painless.

Between SDSU Mission Valley and Riverwalk, Mission Valley is building $7 billion in TOD. The community plan calls for up to 50,000 new residents by 2050. University City still has tons of parking craters that UCSD will develop aggressively. It is therefore crucial that Mid Coast and Green Line frequencies be upgraded from 15 to 7.5 minute frequencies.

[homebucket]

Over the weekend I went to a rooftop restaurant (Seneca, 19th floor of the InterContinental Hotel, very nice btw), and it had a great view of downtown and the waterfront, as well as the RaDD/IQHQ/Manchester Gateway project site. I took a few shots for posterity:


Sweet shots!

[Andy-4-SD]

Great shots! That lot with the Office Depot has to be the next target for redevelopment in that area of downtown.

100%... That parcel is already owned by Bosa Development. My assumption is they're just waiting for the Office Depot lease to run out to redevelop it. Will make a big difference in the skyline.

[IrvineNative]

100%... That parcel is already owned by Bosa Development. My assumption is they're just waiting for the Office Depot lease to run out to redevelop it. Will make a big difference in the skyline.

Any density is better than no density, but I really wish Downtown San Diego built even more offices than it's building now and became a far bigger employment center. In US metro areas, the CBD share of metro area employment as a % is even more instrumental to boosting transit usage than overall population density is.

Also, 1 million sq ft of office space will hold much more people than 1 mil sq ft residential space, and therefore generate more transit trips.

[Streamliner]

Any density is better than no density, but I really wish Downtown San Diego built even more offices than it's building now and became a far bigger employment center. In US metro areas, the CBD share of metro area employment as a % is even more instrumental to boosting transit usage than overall population density is.

Also, 1 million sq ft of office space will hold much more people than 1 mil sq ft residential space, and therefore generate more transit trips.

With the Horton Plaza redo and the RaDD development, we should have a huge boost in downtown office space. Both of those developments appear to be further south and west of where most of the office core is today too, so hopefully that spurs more development in the coming years. I really hope these are successful

[IrvineNative]

With the Horton Plaza redo and the RaDD development, we should have a huge boost in downtown office space. Both of those developments appear to be further south and west of where most of the office core is today too, so hopefully that spurs more development in the coming years. I really hope these are successful

Also Tailgate Park, but seems like the Padres are back to square one with that project as it's past the 1/31 deadline for negotiations with the city and no news yet.

Just hoping Tailgate Park's redesign includes at least as much office space as the previous design and doesn't get turned into more high rise condos filled with teleworkers and rich retirees who don't generate much transit trips.

[SamFlood]

The lots at Broadway and Park, 13th where the Salvation Army was bought by Kilroy have been cleared


https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/518da402e4b0f18fde0cb9a7/1610668490342-ZXEWO1845HF7OKMV29P1/opt-A+%2812%29Kilroy+East+Village.jpg?format=1000w

[Streamliner]

Speaking of office space, the U-T has an article today about the new tower replacing the old county courthouse. It will be a mixed use of office and commercial:

Downtown San Diego’s next big skyscraper is on the rise at former county courthouse site
BY JENNIFER VAN GROVE
Feb 17, 2022
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/story/2022-02-17/downtown-san-diegos-next-big-skyscraper-is-on-the-rise-at-former-county-courthouse-site

https://archive.is/Sw7xM/a44d9ab69cdb2bb18603ba7872881848d3b3f398.webp

Downtown San Diego’s skyline will soon include West, a 37-story luxury apartment and office complex that is being erected in place of the former county courthouse at 1011 Union Street.

...

When completed in early 2024, the $400 million project previously known as Courthouse Commons will feature dining and retail options on the ground floor, seven stories of tech-friendly office space, and a ninth-floor amenity deck offering city and ocean views. The higher floors will be home to 431 apartments, including a chunk that will be rent restricted.

Holland has hired commercial brokerage Jones Lang LaSalle to market the tower’s 270,000 square feet of office space, which is spread across open and expansive floors, each offering outside access.

...

Bounded by Broadway, Union, Front and C street, West takes up one of three blocks that Holland and NASH acquired from the county in June 2019 after winning a bid to redevelop the former San Diego County Courthouse property.
The county traded 3.9 acres of land to the developers in exchange for a $5 million upfront payment, and an underground tunnel that connects the San Diego Central Courthouse to the County Central Jail. The tunnel project is expected to be completed in a few months at a cost of $80 million, Schertzer said. Holland must also pay for the abatement and demolition of the former courthouse structures, per the terms of the deal. That work is anticipated to cost as much as $40 million when finished, the developer said.

West, which will stand 445 feet tall, will make its presence known in the coming months as construction workers continue to pour new floors — currently at a rate of one floor every two weeks. Holland, which is also the general contractor for the project, anticipates topping off the contemporary building designed by Carrier Johnson + CULTURE in April of next year. The project’s signature, ground-level feature — concrete V-shaped columns that prop up the cantilevered portion of the building — will also soon be visible, the developer said.

“It’s what San Diego deserves architecturally,” said Todd Majcher, an executive with Los Angeles-based developer Lowe. Lowe, a project consultant, is overseeing West’s commercial components. “While other cities around the West are moving forward with really great, experiential architecture — Vancouver, Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles — San Diego, particularly in the downtown market, has been a little slower. Now that we’re seeing this revitalization of downtown, having this inspiring architectural tower sets the stage for a new skyline.

...

Downtown is currently home to 12.7 million square feet of office space, although nearly 22 percent of all inventory is vacant, according to the most recent industry data from JLL’s research arm. With another 1.6 million square feet of downtown office space under construction, West will compete head-to-head for office tenants in a market that’s soon to be overflowing with space. Located alongside downtown’s C Street, West offers direct trolley access — although its proximity to a troubled transit corridor could also be seen as a deterrent.

...

”

[LAisthePlace]

"Downtown is currently home to 12.7 million square feet of office space, although nearly 22 percent of all inventory is vacant, according to the most recent industry data from JLL’s research arm. With another 1.6 million square feet of downtown office space under construction, West will compete head-to-head for office tenants in a market that’s soon to be overflowing with space. Located alongside downtown’s C Street, West offers direct trolley access — although its proximity to a troubled transit corridor could also be seen as a deterrent."

Seems like a good development, but I had no idea Downtown San Diego's commercial vacancy rate was that high. Great to see builders adding to the commercial stock even with the high vacancy, but confused by the last sentence.

What about the trolley access / transit corridor makes it "troubled"?

[Streamliner]

"Downtown is currently home to 12.7 million square feet of office space, although nearly 22 percent of all inventory is vacant, according to the most recent industry data from JLL’s research arm. With another 1.6 million square feet of downtown office space under construction, West will compete head-to-head for office tenants in a market that’s soon to be overflowing with space. Located alongside downtown’s C Street, West offers direct trolley access — although its proximity to a troubled transit corridor could also be seen as a deterrent."

Seems like a good development, but I had no idea Downtown San Diego's commercial vacancy rate was that high. Great to see builders adding to the commercial stock even with the high vacancy, but confused by the last sentence.

What about the trolley access / transit corridor makes it "troubled"?

I think it's that particular transit corridor (C Street) that is considered troubled. C Street is not exactly a nice place to hang out. Lots of homeless, not much quality retail, etc. One would pass through it if needed, but generally wouldn't want to be hanging out there.

As for the high vacancy, I'm not really aware of vacancy rates, but perhaps it's due to COVID? Maybe someone else can chime in.

[Andy-4-SD]

I think it's that particular transit corridor (C Street) that is considered troubled. C Street is not exactly a nice place to hang out. Lots of homeless, not much quality retail, etc. One would pass through it if needed, but generally wouldn't want to be hanging out there.

As for the high vacancy, I'm not really aware of vacancy rates, but perhaps it's due to COVID? Maybe someone else can chime in.

Vacancy rates in Downtown have lagged behind other employment centers, particularly La Jolla/UTC and Sorrento Valley, for years. Hard to find office space in those areas, and the vacant space that is available is being turned to biotech and tech office.

Even before Covid, Downtown regularly hovered around 15-20%. With that said, it is typical for office space to have a higher vacancy than other product types such as apartments.

I think the issue with downtown is that a lot of the office space is older inventory - Core Columbia is mostly 70s and 80s build class B office. Tenants today want class A. These new developments, particularly Horton Plaza and IQHQ could likely well turn out to be a catalyst. UTC and Sorrento valley are both pretty much built out, leaving downtown as the most sensible place to build office. A lot of younger work talent prefers to live downtown, so it makes sense for companies to leverage that to attract more talent.

[IrvineNative]

^^^ No matter how much I want Downtown San Diego to be a huge corporate center like Downtown Seattle, I don't think it'll happen when big corporate HQs are leaving, not moving into, California and thus office space demand will be lower. The fact that San Diego is building as much office space as it is right now is pretty incredible given San Diego's weak corporate economy relative to other metros of its size. Imagine if we got a lot of corporate relocations like Austin did, though, and we didn't have airport near downtown. We could be getting multiple 500+ feet, all office, skyscrapers.

I also have a hunch that the downtown 500 foot height limit is why we have a lot of parking craters. Sure you could, given tons of money, build a bunch of 400' towers. But to developers, it's going to require a lot less steel and concrete to house 2 million square feet of office in one 900' tower vs in three 400' towers, which is so expensive that developers might as well build all that 2 million sq ft as sprawling office park in Sorrento Valley.

[JSW]

[B]What about the trolley access / transit corridor makes it "troubled"?

It's just a fairly run down and neglected corridor in downtown SD and has several delapidated / boarded up buildings and the problems you'd expect to come along with that. There are a few rough trolly stops. Compared to other cities, no it's not "troubled" but compared to the rest of downtown, it stands out.

There is a revitalization plan pre-covid, but who knows what will happen now. The abandoned California Theatre is probably one of the biggest eyesore and squatter issues, so if that condo development would actually move forward it would make a big difference IMO.

[IrvineNative]

Anyone got updates on NAVWAR and Tailgate Park?

NAVWAR is in Midway but if I understand correctly it is exempt from the 30 foot height limit as it is considered federal, not municipal, land.

Tailgate Park, anyone know what's going on? Supposedly the deadlines for negotiations between the Padres and the City was supposed to be 1/31, which has come and passed, but no news. So it's back to square one?

I was so excited for Tailgate Park, because it was mostly biotech office space. That's the one office space market that has not only not suffered but thrived during the pandemic. I don't want Downtown to simply become a sea of condos inhabited by remote workers and retirees who won't contribute to transit ridership. For transit ridership to grow, you need office TOD because everyone at an office has to commute, and a million sq ft office space can hold far more people than a million sq ft apartment space.

[ucsbgaucho]

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/story/2022-03-01/mega-project-replacing-seaport-village-central-embarcadero-has-swelled-in-size-and-price

Tuesday, the Port of San Diego released the Seaport San Diego project description, a 167-page document with development specifics and narrative descriptions for each of the project’s seven land blocks and five water zones. The document, which is more than five years in the making, will go before port commissioners at the March 8 board meeting where they’ll get to weigh in on — but not approve — the latest iteration of the mega project that promises to substantially alter the city’s front porch.

Over the years, the redevelopment effort has swelled in size and now includes 105 acres of land and water area — and 2.7 million square feet of mixed-use development — in and around San Diego Bay. It’s also ballooned in price, adding billions to the bottom line with each iteration presented to the port.

https://awesomescreenshot.s3.amazonaws.com/image/2732900/23226657-73c56c168a0ad258d946fb080e5f9f06.jpg?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAJSCJQ2NM3XLFPVKA%2F20220301%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20220301T164920Z&X-Amz-Expires=28800&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=5f60d97399e851b18cf7986c8524869e13c01dc8ce97de2a2b4b4c0daa7431a5

[IrvineNative]

Tuesday, the Port of San Diego released the Seaport San Diego project description, a 167-page document with development specifics and narrative descriptions for each of the project’s seven land blocks and five water zones. The document, which is more than five years in the making, will go before port commissioners at the March 8 board meeting where they’ll get to weigh in on — but not approve — the latest iteration of the mega project that promises to substantially alter the city’s front porch.

Over the years, the redevelopment effort has swelled in size and now includes 105 acres of land and water area — and 2.7 million square feet of mixed-use development — in and around San Diego Bay. It’s also ballooned in price, adding billions to the bottom line with each iteration presented to the port.



Can't believe after San Diego's tourism-heavy economy was hammered by COVID that Seaport will become another mega resort, as if there wasn't another mega resort (Gaylord Pacific) in the works nearby.

So much for Downtown San Diego becoming a corporate tech center like Downtown Austin which is getting new office skyscrapers even during COVID. Downtown Austin is actually going to get a ton of workers commuting on their Project Connect LRT to Downtown. The SD Trolley? Haha, try convincing tourists to wait up to 15 minutes for a trolley from the airport to get to Seaport and the Convention Center, which are only 12 minutes away from the airport by Uber.

[eburress]

That's a good point about the risk of doubling down on tourism but to expect Austin-like results in San Diego, when all those new Austin buildings are being filled with companies and people *leaving* California, doesn't seem realistic either.

[SAN Man]

Can't believe after San Diego's tourism-heavy economy was hammered by COVID that Seaport will become another mega resort, as if there wasn't another mega resort (Gaylord Pacific) in the works nearby.

So much for Downtown San Diego becoming a corporate tech center like Downtown Austin which is getting new office skyscrapers even during COVID. Downtown Austin is actually going to get a ton of workers commuting on their Project Connect LRT to Downtown. The SD Trolley? Haha, try convincing tourists to wait up to 15 minutes for a trolley from the airport to get to Seaport and the Convention Center, which are only 12 minutes away from the airport by Uber.

RaDD is developing lab space in downtown, right? Plus Horton Plaza's new research campus in place of a suburban style retail center full of chains that have been in decline from online competitors like Amazon.

https://iqhqreit.com/project/radd/
https://hortonsd.com/campus

[Streamliner]

RaDD is developing lab space in downtown, right? Plus Horton Plaza's new research campus in place of a suburban style retail center full of chains that have been in decline from online competitors like Amazon.

https://iqhqreit.com/project/radd/
https://hortonsd.com/campus

Correct, RaDD will have biotech space just across the street from Seaport Village.

And for what it's worth, the new Seaport Village will set aside 308k SF of space for "blue tech" or ocean research-related enterprises. Which is a lot more than I would have expected for a project that at its core is replacing a tourist development with a tourist development.

[Andy-4-SD]

That's a good point about the risk of doubling down on tourism but to expect Austin-like results in San Diego, when all those new Austin buildings are being filled with companies and people *leaving* California, doesn't seem realistic either.

Agreed. Austin also doesn't have the inherent tourism demand that San Diego has. Doesn't have the same waterfront or the weather. This is the best location in the city to create an iconic world-class destination. It should be a landmark, not an office park. Downtown needs a beach. Downtown needs a main attraction aside from Petco park. Most of downtown is just restaurants and apartments. This development is truely a game changer. Moreso, this development will be a catalyst for further growth and development downtown.

They're building $2b of office within a few blocks with horton plaza and IQHQ Development. Reminder - this is in downtown, which is a largely untested market for class-A tech office. I think these projects will prove to be successes but they together will saturate the market for some time. Additionally, with the new crackdown on Airbnbs, there's going to be demand for 4,000-5,000 more hotel rooms inn SD. Hotel rooms in this location will have high occupancy and do great.

[SDfan]

Just a quick reminder that you can't build homes or offices on tidelands, which is where Seaport Village is located. Those are under the perview of the coastal commission, and they only permit public access, amenities, tourism and recreational development on tidelands.

Gafcon is trying to sell their 300k office component as "bluetech" which is a stretch that I'm not sure the CC is going to buy.

Also, I wouldn't be building anything along the coast anways. The sea and groundwater level rise in these areas is going to be...well, not good in the coming decades (something Gafcon is also trying to address, the entire ground floor component could be converted to canals from what I understand).

[SDfan]

Also downtown is bloating with speculative office development. IQHQ. Hortan Plaza. BoA annex. Padres. I could go on. Downtown doesn't need any more office proposals, unless they're actually going to prelease, which from what I hear, is not going well. Expect double digit vancancy rates for some time.

Meanwhile, national and international bio and tech real estate firms are snapping up property in Sorrento Mesa and Sorrento Valley and aiming to redevelop low slung industrial campuses into horizontal biotech lab spaces ala Torrey Pines Mesa. They're looking to charge $6sqft which is insane and shows you were the real money in commercial real estate is going to go. That's not even mentioning University City, which is about to blow up after their community plan update adds millions of sqaure feet of new commercial and residential zoning potential. But yes, best of luck to downtown lol

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2022-02-24/oxford-properties-extends-roots-in-san-diego-buys-13-sorrento-mesa-buildings-for-464-million

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/story/2021-11-26/why-this-boston-developer-has-spent-842m-buying-bland-office-buildings-in-sorrento-mesa-and-sorrento-valley

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/story/2022-01-14/life-science-developer-buys-costa-verde-strip-mall-near-utc

[SAN Man]

Also downtown is bloating with speculative office development. IQHQ. Hortan Plaza. BoA annex. Padres. I could go on. Downtown doesn't need any more office proposals, unless they're actually going to prelease, which from what I hear, is not going well. Expect double digit vancancy rates for some time.

Meanwhile, national and international bio and tech real estate firms are snapping up property in Sorrento Mesa and Sorrento Valley and aiming to redevelop low slung industrial campuses into horizontal biotech lab spaces ala Torrey Pines Mesa. They're looking to charge $6sqft which is insane and shows you were the real money in commercial real estate is going to go. That's not even mentioning University City, which is about to blow up after their community plan update adds millions of sqaure feet of new commercial and residential zoning potential. But yes, best of luck to downtown lol

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2022-02-24/oxford-properties-extends-roots-in-san-diego-buys-13-sorrento-mesa-buildings-for-464-million

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/story/2021-11-26/why-this-boston-developer-has-spent-842m-buying-bland-office-buildings-in-sorrento-mesa-and-sorrento-valley

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/story/2022-01-14/life-science-developer-buys-costa-verde-strip-mall-near-utc

Yep, I'm thinking the same. UTC has been booming and will continue to boom with UCSD growth next by and the trolley is now there to build off of that spine.

[eburress]

Agreed. Austin also doesn't have the inherent tourism demand that San Diego has. Doesn't have the same waterfront or the weather. This is the best location in the city to create an iconic world-class destination. It should be a landmark, not an office park. Downtown needs a beach. Downtown needs a main attraction aside from Petco park. Most of downtown is just restaurants and apartments. This development is truely a game changer. Moreso, this development will be a catalyst for further growth and development downtown.

They're building $2b of office within a few blocks with horton plaza and IQHQ Development. Reminder - this is in downtown, which is a largely untested market for class-A tech office. I think these projects will prove to be successes but they together will saturate the market for some time. Additionally, with the new crackdown on Airbnbs, there's going to be demand for 4,000-5,000 more hotel rooms inn SD. Hotel rooms in this location will have high occupancy and do great.

That's a really good point too. While it seems like this is SD doubling down on tourism, if there was ANYWHERE in the city to have a visitor-friendly development, this is it. lol

[IrvineNative]

Meanwhile, national and international bio and tech real estate firms are snapping up property in Sorrento Mesa and Sorrento Valley and aiming to redevelop low slung industrial campuses into horizontal biotech lab spaces ala Torrey Pines Mesa. They're looking to charge $6sqft which is insane and shows you were the real money in commercial real estate is going to go. That's not even mentioning University City, which is about to blow up after their community plan update adds millions of sqaure feet of new commercial and residential zoning potential. But yes, best of luck to downtown lol



So I guess SD is just going to continue to sprawl into Sorrento Valley office parks? Doesn't seem good. We need to channel that office space demand away from Sorrento Valley into dense corridors in University City, Mission Valley, and Downtown, close to the trolley.

[IrvineNative]

That's a good point about the risk of doubling down on tourism but to expect Austin-like results in San Diego, when all those new Austin buildings are being filled with companies and people *leaving* California, doesn't seem realistic either.

Which is the point. It's easy to scapegoat NIMBYs for lack of density, and NIMBYs aren't good, but the far bigger barrier to more density is simply having a slow population growth rate regionally and not having big corporations relocating to Downtown and other dense hubs.

You can be YIMBY all you want but if you continue to have high taxes and high regs people will continue to move away.

YIMBYism accelerates smart growth once there is demand, but it does not by itself create demand and by itself is limited in kindling growth.

So yeah, ironically Austin will end up more urban than San Diego despite Texas' state government making California's look super transit-oriented and pro-density. Because when you're growing fast, even if a small share of that growth is TOD, that's still a lot of TOD. Also a reminder that Austin is also a very NIMBY city.

[JerellO]

California needs to stop taxing everything so much. It’s what’s causing business and residents to leave to places that are much more business friendly and have lower taxes such as Texas and Florida

[SAN Man]

California needs to stop taxing everything so much. It’s what’s causing business and residents to leave to places that are much more business friendly and have lower taxes such as Texas and Florida

San Diego utility rates are the highest in the nation. That hits energy intensive industries and business really hard too. Somebody was telling me that SDG&E's super-off peak hours are higher than most cities' peak hours.

[homebucket]

If you look at SD's main industries they're not traditionally in urban highrise office settings. Military/defense, education, healthcare, tourism, trade. Even life sciences office space are typically in sprawling, horizontally oriented suburban campuses.

[YourBuddy]

California needs to stop taxing everything so much. It’s what’s causing business and residents to leave to places that are much more business friendly and have lower taxes such as Texas and Florida

People are far more likely to leave for cheaper housing prices than income taxes. Funny enough they end up paying some of the highest property tax rates in the country.

[eburress]

People are far more likely to leave for cheaper housing prices than income taxes. Funny enough they end up paying some of the highest property tax rates in the country.

Trust me, you still come out WAY ahead. lol

[IrvineNative]

People are far more likely to leave for cheaper housing prices than income taxes. Funny enough they end up paying some of the highest property tax rates in the country.

Or maybe job opportunities on top of cheaper housing?

Detroit and Cleveland have cheap housing but anemic growth because the economy isn't good.

"But that's different! People are going to move out because of the cold weather!"

New Orleans metro has good weather but it isn't growing terribly fast either, because the economy there isn't good.

"Yeah, New Orleans has good weather until it floods, so it's the floods scaring people away!"

Greater Houston flooded during Harvey, and it's still growing fast. It so happens that Greater Houston has a stronger economy than NOLA or the Rust Belt.

So yes, corporate growth matters. Even if San Diego became super YIMBY from now on, the business unfriendly policies of California would continue to drive businesses away from the state.

And the latest in taxation: SANDAG proposes charging builders more to build in sprawly suburbs than in the urban core.

I mean SANDAG has some great ideas for transit (the airport APM) but this is not one of them. This will only add to the cost of housing. Families with kids won't choose a Downtown apartment instead of a suburban SFH, because Downtown (and Mission Valley) have poor public schools. They're going to pack up and move to the suburbs of Dallas where they'll contribute to even more suburban sprawl.

That's why I believe improving inner city education and quality of life to attract families is one of the biggest tools in our arsenal to fight sprawl. Lots of families would love to not have to drive everywhere and upkeep a gigantic SFH. Problem is dense urban areas in the US are overwhelmingly filled with failing schools, high crime, and/or homelessness. So families see no choice but to live in the burbs.

[roletand]

Hot off the press!

San Diego Padres offer $35M for Tailgate Park, planning $1.5B residential project
BY JENNIFER VAN GROVE
MARCH 3, 2022 2:29 PM PT
The San Diego Union-Tribune

The city and the development team, which are in agreement on sale and development terms, are now racing to close escrow by the end of the year.

After 14 months of negotiating, the city of San Diego and a development team led by the Padres have reached a deal on sale terms for a four-block, East Village parking lot known as Tailgate Park where the Major League Baseball club and its partners now want to build 1,800 apartments.

Wednesday, San Diego’s Economic Development & Intergovernmental Relations Committee will consider sending the deal to the full council for approval in April. The city and Padres are racing against the clock — because of state disposition laws, the transaction must close escrow by Dec. 23 or it will be aborted altogether.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/story/2022-03-03/san-diego-padres-offer-35m-for-tailgate-park-planning-1-5b-residential-project

[YourBuddy]

Trust me, you still come out WAY ahead. lol

Wouldn’t for me, but I wouldn’t be significantly downgrading my quality of home just to live in Texas to avoid income taxes on my salary.

[YourBuddy]

Or maybe job opportunities on top of cheaper housing?

Detroit and Cleveland have cheap housing but anemic growth because the economy isn't good.

"But that's different! People are going to move out because of the cold weather!"

New Orleans metro has good weather but it isn't growing terribly fast either, because the economy there isn't good.

"Yeah, New Orleans has good weather until it floods, so it's the floods scaring people away!"

Greater Houston flooded during Harvey, and it's still growing fast. It so happens that Greater Houston has a stronger economy than NOLA or the Rust Belt.

So yes, corporate growth matters. Even if San Diego became super YIMBY from now on, the business unfriendly policies of California would continue to drive businesses away from the state.

And the latest in taxation: SANDAG proposes charging builders more to build in sprawly suburbs than in the urban core.

I mean SANDAG has some great ideas for transit (the airport APM) but this is not one of them. This will only add to the cost of housing. Families with kids won't choose a Downtown apartment instead of a suburban SFH, because Downtown (and Mission Valley) have poor public schools. They're going to pack up and move to the suburbs of Dallas where they'll contribute to even more suburban sprawl.

That's why I believe improving inner city education and quality of life to attract families is one of the biggest tools in our arsenal to fight sprawl. Lots of families would love to not have to drive everywhere and upkeep a gigantic SFH. Problem is dense urban areas in the US are overwhelmingly filled with failing schools, high crime, and/or homelessness. So families see no choice but to live in the burbs.


The significant majority of people will say cost of living and cheaper housing is the number 1 reason they move, followed by a job.

Most families don’t live in downtowns around the country is some combination of space and schools. It’s hard to afford space in downtowns, and for decades we have subsidized highways and the growth of those suburbs with more space. Personally I would stop subsidizing that type of growth and put that money towards schools and affordable housing.

[IrvineNative]

Hot off the press!

San Diego Padres offer $35M for Tailgate Park, planning $1.5B residential project
BY JENNIFER VAN GROVE
MARCH 3, 2022 2:29 PM PT
The San Diego Union-Tribune



https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/story/2022-03-03/san-diego-padres-offer-35m-for-tailgate-park-planning-1-5b-residential-project

If we want TOD, how much will more condos and apartments contribute to transit ridership?

I have a hunch that all these new condo/apartment towers are filled with a lot more remote workers and rich retirees than in your average neighborhood. Am I right? Because remote workers and retirees tend not to take many trips and therefore don't contribute to ridership.

[Streamliner]

If we want TOD, how much will more condos and apartments contribute to transit ridership?

I have a hunch that all these new condo/apartment towers are filled with a lot more remote workers and rich retirees than in your average neighborhood. Am I right? Because remote workers and retirees tend not to take many trips and therefore don't contribute to ridership.

Some text/pics from the article below. For what it's worth, it calls out the reasoning for the office-to-housing change:

Padres development team offers $35M for Tailgate Park, plans $1.5B residential project
March 3, 2022
Jennifer Van Grove

The latest iteration of the project, called East Village Quarter, differs greatly from the original vision. Instead of an office campus, the $1.5 billion project centers around 1,800 residential units spread across three residential towers — between 350 feet and 500 feet in height — with 1,620 underground parking spaces.
On the northwest block, which was deemed unbuildable in the seismic analysis, East Village Quarter now calls for a privately owned public park, to be paid for and operated by the developers, that will be designed in a future process. On the southeast block, the group is planning a 1,200-space parking garage to replace the existing surface spaces and accommodate baseball fans.
The project is tied together by 50,000 square feet of storefronts along a street that bisects the site and leads toward Petco Park.

“The pandemic really threw us a curveball in the sense that the work-from-home and hybrid work environments that were put in place ... have abated some of the demand for office,” said Paul DeMartini, who is an executive with New York-based real estate developer Tishman Speyer. “We thought that, based on the city’s housing needs and based on the demand that we were seeing for housing in the market, that it was more appropriate to meet that market demand to get this project into production and make it a reality sooner.”


https://archive.ph/Lpxco/7813027d3fba8d9f9e5b28d0ead07ee0d78ee13b.webp

https://archive.ph/Lpxco/048ad713edd529a7347a3b0638b65d0f55e89ee5.webp

[IrvineNative]

Some text/pics from the article below. For what it's worth, it calls out the reasoning for the office-to-housing change:

Padres development team offers $35M for Tailgate Park, plans $1.5B residential project
March 3, 2022
Jennifer Van Grove



Aha, so yes, Tailgate Park is not going to be very successful TOD because if you live in a high end condo you'll probably be teleworking, not commuting.

I know post-COVID, teleworking is big.

But look at Austin. It's still getting a ton of office skyscrapers. Maybe not as much as it would if COVID never happened, but still a lot.

Which shows that if San Diego wants more office TOD, it's going to need to economically diversify beyond tourism and bring big corps who will demand big campuses near transit. Turns out NIMBYs may be bad but the biggest barrier to office TOD isn't NIMBYs, it's California's businesses hostile policies that curb office demand. Little office demand means developers build less office. Simple.

[Northparkwizard]

Aha, so yes, Tailgate Park is not going to be very successful TOD because if you live in a high end condo you'll probably be teleworking, not commuting.

I know post-COVID, teleworking is big.

But look at Austin. It's still getting a ton of office skyscrapers. Maybe not as much as it would if COVID never happened, but still a lot.

Which shows that if San Diego wants more office TOD, it's going to need to economically diversify beyond tourism and bring big corps who will demand big campuses near transit. Turns out NIMBYs may be bad but the biggest barrier to office TOD isn't NIMBYs, it's California's businesses hostile policies that curb office demand. Little office demand means developers build less office. Simple.

Welcome to the SD forum, San Diego isn't Irvine or Austin.

Thank goodness.

[JSW]

Aha, so yes, Tailgate Park is not going to be very successful TOD because if you live in a high end condo you'll probably be teleworking, not commuting.

I know post-COVID, teleworking is big.

But look at Austin. It's still getting a ton of office skyscrapers. Maybe not as much as it would if COVID never happened, but still a lot.

Which shows that if San Diego wants more office TOD, it's going to need to economically diversify beyond tourism and bring big corps who will demand big campuses near transit. Turns out NIMBYs may be bad but the biggest barrier to office TOD isn't NIMBYs, it's California's businesses hostile policies that curb office demand. Little office demand means developers build less office. Simple.

OK... we GET IT. You can stop parroting the CA hostile policies thing. We heard you. No one wants to get into a political debate on here.

[HurricaneHugo]

As far as office/residential goes, I go with the option that brings down the cost of housing.

More condos, increases supply, lowers prices.

Right?

[Andy-4-SD]

As far as office/residential goes, I go with the option that brings down the cost of housing.

More condos, increases supply, lowers prices.

Right?

Bravo

[Nerv]

As far as office/residential goes, I go with the option that brings down the cost of housing.

More condos, increases supply, lowers prices.

Right?

Not trying to sound negative but although building more housing will ease some of the demand I’d say the ship has sailed long ago for affordability in San Diego. You’d have to go back several decades for affordability in this city. We are heading into San Francisco market pricing with the makeup of the city changing with the pricing and times. There’s only so much land on or close to ocean and we are sitting on prime real estate here without all the headaches that some of our neighbors up north face…

[SamFlood]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMycnzMVUAA_zM6?format=jpg&name=small

[SAN Man]

Not trying to sound negative but although building more housing will ease some of the demand I’d say the ship has sailed long ago for affordability in San Diego. You’d have to go back several decades for affordability in this city. We are heading into San Francisco market pricing with the makeup of the city changing with the pricing and times. There’s only so much land on or close to ocean and we are sitting on prime real estate here without all the headaches that some of our neighbors up north face…

If you use the home sale price to income ratio, we're the least affordable metro in the nation, passing up San Francisco this year, with the highest utility rates too.

Average income is $68,000. Median home price January $764,000.

[IrvineNative]

If you use the home sale price to income ratio, we're the least affordable metro in the nation, passing up San Francisco this year, with the highest utility rates too.

Average income is $68,000. Median home price January $764,000.

Why are incomes in SD so low? Is it just because SD is very tourism dependent? What about tech jobs, are you paid less in SD vs in LA?

[SDCAL]

Is 7th/Market (Ritz Carlton hotel project) dead?

I can’t believe that prime site is STILL a surface parking lot.

At what point can new plans be worked on? This is turning into another Manchester disaster. That prime bay front land rotted for years and years while Manchester sat on it with his lofty plans, then when he finally started his big development he couldn’t even finish it.

[IrvineNative]

Is 7th/Market (Ritz Carlton hotel project) dead?

I can’t believe that prime site is STILL a surface parking lot.

At what point can new plans be worked on? This is turning into another Manchester disaster. That prime bay front land rotted for years and years while Manchester sat on it with his lofty plans, then when he finally started his big development he couldn’t even finish it.

"It must be NIMBYs!" JK. It's probably market forces. I really wonder if the hotel market is oversaturated with the new Seaport Village and Gaylord Pacific resorts, and that might turn 7th and Market into more residential.

[SAN Man]

Is 7th/Market (Ritz Carlton hotel project) dead?

I can’t believe that prime site is STILL a surface parking lot.

At what point can new plans be worked on? This is turning into another Manchester disaster. That prime bay front land rotted for years and years while Manchester sat on it with his lofty plans, then when he finally started his big development he couldn’t even finish it.

I have always thought that that's a strange place to have a luxurious brand like the Ritz Carlton.
Waterfront - nope.
Gaslamp - nope.
Fronting a large city park - nope.
Near the convention center - nope.
Near the core of office towers and courts - nope.
Busy, street with busses - yep.
Homeless, street people presence - yep.

I would scrap the Ritz and replace it with something that will work right away. A mixed use, apartments, maybe a smaller boutique hotel with ground floor retail.