SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 [Archive] - Page 16

eburress

Jun 6, 2007, 12:44 AM

I think, before you all pass judgement on this one, you should ask for more renderings. Call CCDC. I went to the design review meeting for this project. It is awesome. It contains a public parking garage, a high end hotel, ultra luxury APARTMENTS, a police store front, a cultural space, and room for a 10 to 20k square foot grocery store. The architect is Carrier Johnson. I think if saw other renderings you would appreciate the top more. There are also a series of green roofs as well.

I look forward to the Related Companies doing a 1st class job in San Diego.

One other note, you all have excellent comments about new building,s why don't you go to design review meetings and comment? Rarely does the public show up for these meetings. I think much more public comment would be appreciated.

Somebody who's aware of when and where these reviews are going to take place should post the info here. Speaking for myself, I couldn't go to every design review, but I would like to go to some.

HurricaneHugo

Jun 6, 2007, 8:38 AM

Wait a minute, La Jolla Commons is only 15-stories tall?

I thought it was taller...

eburress

Jun 6, 2007, 3:24 PM

Wait a minute, La Jolla Commons is only 15-stories tall?

I thought it was taller...

The first tower (the office tower currently under construction) is 15 stories. The hotel and residential towers are much taller.

Speaking of which, that 15 story office tower has been stuck on floor #8 for a while now.

SD_Phil

Jun 6, 2007, 5:28 PM

^Yep. It hasn't changed for at least 2-3 weeks, at all as far I can tell. Not only in terms of getting taller but no development whatsoever. What's up with that?

It almost looks like they framed up 8 floors and then started working on the highrise behind it (which has seen progress). Weird.

eburress

Jun 6, 2007, 7:52 PM

^^ at least someone's working on something, although I believe that thing directly behind the office building is the development's parking garage.

PadreHomer

Jun 6, 2007, 9:15 PM

FAA restrictions ;)

sandiegodweller

Jun 6, 2007, 11:34 PM

FAA restrictions ;)
I know that you are being funny but the land planning for that site was affected by the Miramar flight path

sandiego_urban

Jun 7, 2007, 12:47 AM

Between us, UTC seems like kind of an odd spot for a trendy hotel like a W (especially considering that part of UTC is closer to Miramar than it is to La Jolla)
Have you been to PF Chang's and Japengo on a weekend night? It's basically the Gaslamp Lite. With Del Mar, La Jolla, UTC and UCSD nearby, I'm sure it will be a destination in itself. There's definitely a market for this type of hotel in the area.

I'm still trying to figure out if this W is going to be built in La Jolla Commons or if it's going to be part of the redeveloped UTC mall, so that shows you what I know! hahaha
As ShekelPop said, it will be part of La Jolla Commons. The posted article mentions Makar, who is the developer of the project.

I think, before you all pass judgement on this one, you should ask for more renderings. Call CCDC. I went to the design review meeting for this project. It is awesome. It contains a public parking garage, a high end hotel, ultra luxury APARTMENTS, a police store front, a cultural space, and room for a 10 to 20k square foot grocery store. The architect is Carrier Johnson. I think if you saw other renderings you would appreciate the top more. There are also a series of green roofs as well.

I look forward to the Related Companies doing a 1st class job in San Diego.
Sounds great! I saw a much larger rendering of the project that's been posted here in print and it looks pretty nice. I'll try to scan it and post it here since it shows more detail of the base. This proposal seems to take the phrase "mixed-use" to the extreme. Is there anything that this block won't have? ;) Did CCDC happen to present the other proposal for the same block that wasn't selected?

FYI - Related Companies http://www.related.com/index.asp?model=homeRelated&view=1&companyid=7 also did the Time Warner Center in NYC, which gives this project a pretty good chance of happening. :tup:

One other note, you all have excellent comments about new buildings why don't you go to the CCDC design review meetings and comment? Rarely does the public show up for these meetings. I think much more public comment would be appreciated.
What time do these meetings usually take place? I'm sure it's during the regular workday, right?

The first tower (the office tower currently under construction) is 15 stories. The hotel and residential towers are much taller.

La Jolla Commons
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/ljcommonsgq2.jpg

keg92101

Jun 9, 2007, 3:12 PM

Have you been to PF Chang's and Japengo on a weekend night? It's basically the Gaslamp Lite. With Del Mar, La Jolla, UTC and UCSD nearby, I'm sure it will be a destination in itself. There's definitely a market for this type of hotel in the area.

As ShekelPop said, it will be part of La Jolla Commons. The posted article mentions Makar, who is the developer of the project.

La Jolla Commons
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/ljcommonsgq2.jpg

Man, nothing kills this thread faster than UTC talk...

Marina_Guy

Jun 9, 2007, 5:25 PM

Man, nothing kills this thread faster than UTC talk...

So true. UTC is such a wasteland. But, unfortunately?, it is one of the major employment centers of the region. And I think Westfield is going to upgrade UTC before Horton Plaza.

Any thoughts on the state of Horton Plaza these days? I have many :stunned:

SDCAL

Jun 9, 2007, 9:05 PM

So true. UTC is such a wasteland. But, unfortunately?, it is one of the major employment centers of the region. And I think Westfield is going to upgrade UTC before Horton Plaza.

Any thoughts on the state of Horton Plaza these days? I have many :stunned:

I like the interior of horton plaza but the exterior really needs to be updated. It is very 80s looking to me. Not sure how or what could be done, but it really is kind of an eyesore from the exterior despite it's vital central location - :(

ShekelPop

Jun 9, 2007, 9:12 PM

I like the interior of horton plaza but the exterior really needs to be updated. It is very 80s looking to me. Not sure how or what could be done, but it really is kind of an eyesore from the exterior despite it's vital central location - :(

I basically agree. I know they have farmers markets on the public plaza facing broadway and I know theyre currently looking for a tenant for the space where Planet Hollywood used to be (or unless something is going on there now that I'm unaware of), but I'd love to see that whole broadway frontage space in front of Horton to be turned into a much nicer public space. Its just completely dead to me. I think that space could definitely benefit from some renovation. I guess what I'm picturing is something like a Union Square (NYC) but with the ability to sit down, or some other type of public Piazza.

Marina_Guy

Jun 9, 2007, 9:29 PM

I basically agree. I know they have farmers markets on the public plaza facing broadway and I know theyre currently looking for a tenant for the space where Planet Hollywood used to be (or unless something is going on there now that I'm unaware of), but I'd love to see that whole broadway frontage space in front of Horton to be turned into a much nicer public space. Its just completely dead to me. I think that space could definitely benefit from some renovation. I guess what I'm picturing is something like a Union Square (NYC) but with the ability to sit down, or some other type of public Piazza.

The old Planet Hollywood (and if you can remember way back (Robinson's department store) is rumored to be demolished. An office building with retail will take its place. Someone should adopt Horton Plaza park soon. Get some retail to front it and turn it into something like Union Square in SF. As for the rest of the mall, I will wait to hear more comments before I give mine!

Derek

Jun 10, 2007, 12:32 AM

I like the mall. But its soooooo boring on the outside. Stucco walls with virtually nothing appealing. Put some windows in the shops or something.

MagnumMike

Jun 10, 2007, 1:03 AM

I am a Phoenix native, I don't live in San Diego, but I was there this past week and I enjoyed the visit. Yeah, I was one of those "Zonies" driving around town.

I was also impressed with everything that was done with your downtown and all of the cranes you have on different sites. Looks like things get done pretty fast in your town, unlike here! Many plans have been drawn for office, residential and mixed use tall structures, some would have been 52 stories tall, but unfortunately, only a few of those buildings become reality.

I took a few pictures of the progress that's currently going on in your downtown when I was on the deck of the USS Midway.

http://www.members.cox.net/mss292/DownTownSanDiego1.jpg
http://www.members.cox.net/mss292/DownTownSanDiego2.jpg

keg92101

Jun 10, 2007, 2:24 AM

The old Planet Hollywood (and if you can remember way back (Robinson's department store) is rumored to be demolished. An office building with retail will take its place. Someone should adopt Horton Plaza park soon. Get some retail to front it and turn it into something like Union Square in SF. As for the rest of the mall, I will wait to hear more comments before I give mine!

Horton Plaza is a dump! I hate that place. I'm tired of John Jerde's "experience of getting lost and trying to figure out how to get out"!!! The entire site, (less the Balboa Theatre) needs to be razed and the grid system brought back to connect the Marina District with the Gaslamp quarter. I think that it has served it's purpose being the ultimate catylist that started the entire re-development in downtown, and Westfield should begin demolishing it in phases in order to get a higher and better use from the site (which I heard they want to do a High-rise at the old Planet Hollywood lot).

SDPhil

Jun 10, 2007, 5:48 PM

Since I live in the Marina District, I have a different perspective on Horton Plaza. Most of us have no problem being separated from the Gaslamp. We know where it is, but we don't necessarily want to live in it.I do agree the park out front is a pit, it's basically a homeless hangout. Revamping the front is not a bad idea, just not sure what you could put in there. One thing that would help the back is the proposed Mandarin Hotel. With some decent venues street level, that would have the effect of extending the Gaslamp westward.

SDCAL

Jun 11, 2007, 2:44 AM

eburress

Jun 11, 2007, 3:17 AM

^^ Wasn't that going to be the Hotel Intercontinental? I never heard about a Mandarin Oriental there.

Derek

Jun 11, 2007, 5:31 AM

Yes, it is an Intercontinental Hotel and it is (or was) supposed to go on the site of the large parking garage I believe. Though a Mandarin Oriental would be nice. ;)

sandiego_urban

Jun 11, 2007, 6:26 AM

Thanks for posting the pics MagnumMike! Glad you enjoyed your visit :)

Any thoughts on the state of Horton Plaza these days? I have many :stunned:
I'm with everyone else who thinks that Horton Plaza needs to be reinvented. For one, it's tenant mix needs to be updated to reflect downtown's growing residential population, while at the same time, retaining it's appeal to both tourists and locals.

The biggest issue with me is the the exterior of the mall. As it is now, everything faces inward, instead of towards the surrounding streets. I realize that when it was built over 20 years ago, downtown wasn't what it is today. I'm for blowing up the exterior and making more entrances into the mall from every street, as well as lining the exterior with shops and businesses.

Another area that needs to be addressed is the frontage along Horton Plaza Park. I'm liking the suggestions already made to turn it into something like Union Square in SF. A weekly farmers Market there would be cool, too.

Yes, it is an Intercontinental Hotel and it is (or was) supposed to go on the site of the large parking garage I believe.
I guess no one recalls that the latest proposal is for a Regent International http://www.regenthotels.com/reg/home/index.html to be built there. Like Mandarin, it's a pretty exclusive brand that originated in Asia.

I was able to find the article that was released early last year -

Posh Horton Hotel shoots for the stars: lots of room for a Downtown luxury property, some say.

The owner of a San Diego-based firm that plans to build a hotel touted as the first step in the upgrade and renovation of Westfield Horton Plaza says it will be Downtown's first "true" luxury lodging facility.

Michael Gallegos, the president and chief executive officer of La Jolla-based American Property Management, which owns and operates some 43 hotels nationwide, confirmed his company plans to spend $120 million to build a 350-room, 38-story property that will carry the Regent International Hotels brand. That tab includes only the price of building the hotel. The land would be leased from Horton Plaza.

Minneapolis-based Regent, which has eight hotels, includes one in Beverly Hills and the remainder abroad. At least six are under development in the United States and abroad. The company is owned by Carlson Hospitality Worldwide of Minneapolis.

"It will be the most extraordinary hotel Downtown San Diego has ever seen," Gallegos said.

Aiming for the Mobil 5-Star rating, arguably the highest and most stringent...

Derek

Jun 11, 2007, 6:33 AM

^Thanks for the info on the Regents! I totally agree with you about the multiple entrances and placing businesses on the street as well.

SDCAL

Jun 11, 2007, 5:00 PM

Excellent, a Regent downtown would be very nice. Both Mandarin-Oriental and Regent are much higher-end than Intercontinental. Hopefully this one will get off the ground one of these years!!!

Mandarin-Oriental has an existing location in SF and they are going to be building a very cool hotel-condo tower in LA's Grand Avenue project downtown, a multi-faceted project aimed at making downtown LA more of an urban core.

It sounds from earlier posts like the W is going into LJ Commons instead of Mandarin-Oriental, maybe they have decided not to join the SD market yet since they are building a lanmark hotel in LA?

Anyhow, I really do think a big 5-star chain would do well downtown because it will fill a market that is becoming increasingly needed downtown. Right now the US Grant seems to be the only ultra-high-end hotel that makes national 5 star rankings. It must really be something on the inside because I never thought the exterior was anything too special. I mean it is a cool historic building but I would not peg it as being downtown's best and most luxurious hotel from the outside, especially with the eyesore or 80s revival Horton Plaza facade across the street!!

SDCAL

Jun 11, 2007, 5:05 PM

http://www.regenthotels.com/reg/home/index.html

Am I seeing things or does this map have some kind of white mark where San Diego is?? Strange, maybe I am hallucinating

Look at their most recent project in Bangkok, the buildings look cool. They even have the sail-like tops but not in a hideous way :)

eburress

Jun 11, 2007, 9:01 PM

I think the mall should be re-built in a way that extends the surrounding streets through the property as pedestrian-only avenues (almost like Disneyland or CA Adventure), blurring the lines between the mall and downtown. As part of the reconstruction, shops and stores would be added around the "mall's" perimeter, and residential and commercial areas would be added to the upper floors (parking would be on the interior of each block).

Derek

Jun 11, 2007, 10:34 PM

^Like Santa Monica's Third Street Promenade.

Derek

Jun 11, 2007, 10:43 PM

stockjock

Jun 12, 2007, 5:27 AM

Another area that needs to be addressed is the frontage along Horton Plaza Park. I'm liking the suggestions already made to turn it into something like Union Square in SF. A weekly farmers Market there would be cool, too.[/I]

FYI, there is a farmer's market at Horton Plaza each Thursday.

mongoXZ

Jun 13, 2007, 1:50 AM

Random Project updates. . .

See 'em while they're hot! I'm too lazy to save them on my imageshack page.:)

Aria
http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_evillage1_camera1/imgbuf/buf_3623/1181651464597188.jpg

Vantage Pointe
http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_evillage1_camera1/imgbuf/buf_3623/1181651464597448.jpg

Smart Corner
http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_evillage1_camera1/imgbuf/buf_3623/1181651464599290.jpg

Hilton
http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_1apne_camera1/imgbuf/buf_2439/1181651464597675.jpg

Legend
http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_1apne_camera1/imgbuf/buf_2439/1181651464597745.jpg

Columbia Crane Cluster (Bayside Bosa, Sapphire, Breeza)
http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_1amnorth_camera1/imgbuf/buf_5983/1181651464598182.jpg

Electra
http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_1apsw_camera1/imgbuf/buf_4408/1181651464598735.jpg

Random Shots

Ballpark Cluster
http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_coronado_camera1/imgbuf/buf_574/1181651464598518.jpg

Marina/Coronado Bridge
http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_1apsw_camera1/imgbuf/buf_4408/1181651464598858.jpg

http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_1apsw_camera1/imgbuf/buf_4408/1181651464599031.jpg

Derek

Jun 13, 2007, 4:51 AM

Thanks for those! :)

Brake Depot must die!

HurricaneHugo

Jun 13, 2007, 10:27 AM

Soon enough...

bushman61988

Jun 13, 2007, 8:02 PM

Wow, Aria is looking really nice.

I'm also shocked by how fast Vantage Point is going up, considering it took forever just to build the freakin Parking Garage.

But my concern is with that Hilton...
Does no one else see this as the ugliest, boxiest tower that they could have possibly put on the bayfront? What are the nice parts of this tower?

Derek

Jun 13, 2007, 10:34 PM

I like the Hilton. I don't know why. It isn't the most exciting design ever, but it isn't boring or ugly in my opinion.

bmfarley

Jun 13, 2007, 10:57 PM

I like the Hilton. I don't know why. It isn't the most exciting design ever, but it isn't boring or ugly in my opinion.
In my opinion, the ugliest tower in downtown, on the waterfront or not, is the Manchester Grand tower #1.... ; the first one built. Not the 2nd.

The 2nd ugliest is/are the Harbor Club towers.

The nicest looking tower to me... the Manchester Grands Tower #2... the one with the castle like roof. It is the west or north tower.

sandiego_urban

Jun 14, 2007, 12:59 AM

Here's an article from the SD Daily Transcript (May 31) regarding the proposal on Market St. Seems like a nice project, and if all goes well it could break ground within 18 months -

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/ev-2.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/ev-3.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/ev-4-1.jpg

SDCAL

Jun 14, 2007, 2:47 AM

In my opinion, the ugliest tower in downtown, on the waterfront or not, is the Manchester Grand tower #1.... ; the first one built. Not the 2nd.

The 2nd ugliest is/are the Harbor Club towers.

The nicest looking tower to me... the Manchester Grands Tower #2... the one with the castle like roof. It is the west or north tower.

Hahaha I actually have just the opposite oprinion. I like the first taller one, but hate the 2nd. The roof on the 2nd one just seems too big for the size, the first one looks decent at night

eburress

Jun 14, 2007, 3:32 AM

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/ev-2.jpg

^^ Speaking of bad roofs! :yuck:

bushman61988

Jun 14, 2007, 3:49 AM

Hahaha I actually have just the opposite oprinion. I like the first taller one, but hate the 2nd. The roof on the 2nd one just seems too big for the size, the first one looks decent at night

Yea, I agree. The 1st one DEFINITELY looks more pleasant at night.

And I actually don't feel that bad about the Harbor Club Towers, I think they look pretty unique...it's all just a matter of personal taste.

^^ Speaking of bad roofs! :yuck:

Yeah, I was a little disappointed by the close-up of this roof...i mean, I guess it is unique.. But i just kind of don't understand it...
I mean, is it glass, or what?

But it will look GREAT from the Ballpark!

sandiego_urban

Jun 14, 2007, 5:40 AM

Yeah, I was a little disappointed by the close-up of this roof...i mean, I guess it is unique.. But i just kind of don't understand it...I mean, is it glass, or what?
I'm sure it's glass, but I'm praying that it's not the highly reflective type that you see in the Dallas skyline. Talk about 80's design......

mongoXZ

Jun 14, 2007, 8:30 AM

I like the roof because it breaks free of that Vancouver-style flatness that's being repilcated all over our skyline.

BTW, what's the hell is a "police storefront" that they keep mentioning in this project?

spoonman

Jun 14, 2007, 8:52 AM

spoonman

Jun 14, 2007, 8:53 AM

spoonman

Jun 14, 2007, 7:07 PM

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/ev-2.jpg
http://www.radicalextremesportscars.com/usa/us_news_2004/radical_west_news_march05/020.jpg

bushman61988

Jun 14, 2007, 7:54 PM

I'm probably alone here, but I like the 80's style roof. It's sort of residential halfway up, then commercial looking at the top. I'm guessing that was the intention.

If the building stood alone it would look weird that way, but the way it will fit into the skyline, I think it might look good for that area (which has a lot of residential looking buildings). Funny thing is that it reminds me of New York-New York in Las Vegas.

No, ur definitely not alone, cuz I like the rooftop as well, because it's so's different than those damn flat, boxy Vancouver roofs. But the more I look at it, it looks as if it's not really a pinnacle-type top that I was expecting, but more slanted like The Mark..
Damn Lazy-Ass architects.

I think this building in these renderings look more like Icon than anything from New York New York.

sandiegodweller

Jun 14, 2007, 9:26 PM

Marriott To Develop Boutique Hotels With Ian Schrager

June 14, 2007: 04:01 PM EST

NEW YORK (Dow Jones) -- Hotel operator Marriott International Inc. said Thursday that it has inked a partnership with boutique-hotel pioneer Ian Schrager to create a new brand of up to 100 "lifestyle" hotels.

The venture will attempt to combine the individualized service of Schrager's boutique hotels with Marriott's (MAR) operational and global scale.

Schrager, originally known for running the infamous disco and nightclub Studio 54, has become a hotel mogul, developing trendy lodging destinations in New York, London, Miami and other cities. He's also been involved in residential and mixed-use developments.

Marriott has a market capitalization of about $17.8 billion and operates such staid brands as Renaissance Hotels, Residence Inn, Courtyard by Marriott and TownePlace Suites. It also operates the high-end Ritz-Carlton hotels.

"Nobody has done what Ian has been able to do with his hotels time and again, and he is the perfect partner to help us create and launch a new, modern genre of hotel," said J.W. Marriott Jr., chairman and chief executive of Marriott International. "These hotels will be an excellent complement to the Marriott portfolio of brands and allow us to use our global platform and ability to execute to create something completely new, different and original."

The hotels, which are still unnamed, will be located in "gateway" cities across North and South America, Europe and Asia. The initial list of markets to be explored includes New York, Miami, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, San Diego, Boston and Las Vegas in the U.S.; London, Paris, Berlin, Frankfurt, Madrid, Barcelona, Milan and Rome in Europe; and Beijing, Shanghai, Singapore, Bangkok, Seoul and Tokyo in Asia, Marriott said.

The hotels will have about 150 to 200 rooms and be designed by a "diverse set of world-renowned architects and designers," Marriott said. The partners said they expect these hotels to be "the most environmentally responsible" lodging options as well.

"In our view, this growth plan utilizes Marriott's strengths in hotel development and management," Merrill Lynch analyst Amanda Bryant told clients. She said the plan will give the brand a "fairly sizeable presence and a nice complement to the other brands within the portfolio."

The partners will divide responsibilities for rolling out the brand, with Schrager leading the effort on concept, design, marketing, branding and food and beverages. Marriott will oversee the development process and operate and manage the completed hotels.

In particular, Marriott will use its relationships in the development community to identify potential participants in various markets. The partners said they expect to have at least five firm development deals signed under the new brand by the end of 2007 and 100 hotels open or in the pipeline within a decade.

eburress

Jun 14, 2007, 9:54 PM

I like the roof because it breaks free of that Vancouver-style flatness that's being repilcated all over our skyline.

I'll give you that - it seems like almost all of the buildings in that part of town are so boxy, which is partly why I was so excited about Cosmo. :(

I don't care for the roof at all though, but I didn't like the Pei/Cobb tower at first either. After seeing the videos and other renderings, it has started to grow on me.

Derek

Jun 14, 2007, 10:26 PM

So is Cosmo Square completely dead?

spoonman

Jun 15, 2007, 1:21 AM

I had forgotten about Pei Cobb Tower. Does anyone recall when the groundbreaking is?

spoonman

Jun 15, 2007, 1:22 AM

So is Cosmo Square completely dead?

I think we would all be speculating at this point. My guess is that it may reappear when the market picks up.

Derek

Jun 15, 2007, 2:17 AM

^I had the same thought that it may come up again when the market picks up.

CoastersBolts

Jun 15, 2007, 6:10 AM

Speaking of the Pei Cobb Tower, someone mentioned they saw an artists rendering video of it. Where could I locate that? Thanks.

Derek

Jun 15, 2007, 6:16 AM

^^^

http://www.700westbroadway.com

mello

Jun 15, 2007, 6:34 AM

Right now I will take anything with some real height (over 400 feet) in that part of town. Now that Cosmo and Library Tower are on hold at least this will bring something with a presence to the Gaslamp/Western East Village.

The Mark is ok but not quite tall enough to make a *big impact* if you know what I mean, I wish the Mark could have been 44 floors like Electra.

Everyone here should go check out the Marsielle proposals thread and look at all the cool and at least different kind of architecture they have in their proposals, makes all of our stuff look so bland:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=130524
I wish we could get some stuff like that. :rolleyes:

Derek

Jun 15, 2007, 6:54 AM

The Mark came out a lot more bland than I thought it would. The entire concrete column on the backside of the building stands out like a sore thumb!

HurricaneHugo

Jun 15, 2007, 9:12 AM

I had forgotten about Pei Cobb Tower. Does anyone recall when the groundbreaking is?

Hopefully after a redesign.

PadreHomer

Jun 15, 2007, 5:44 PM

Hopefully after a redesign.
I wouldn't expect anything great and unusual from the Irvine Company, no matter who the architect is.

stockjock

Jun 16, 2007, 2:48 AM

Looks like KB Homes has backed out of 10th & B and it could now be 23 stories of low-income housing:

http://www.ccdc.com/events/resources/Item%2010%20-%2010th%20&%20B.pdf

sandiegodweller

Jun 16, 2007, 5:47 AM

Looks like KB Homes has backed out of 10th & B and it could now be 23 stories of low-income housing:

http://www.ccdc.com/events/resources/Item%2010%20-%2010th%20&%20B.pdf

Why take out the Burger King? It appears that it is already a low income housing project.

Derek

Jun 16, 2007, 6:05 AM

^LOL!

Good for KB Homes though. :)

eburress

Jun 16, 2007, 6:16 AM

THIS is what needs to get built over near the ballpark.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/samclark/dallas/museum_1.jpg

Like I've said before, that part of town needs more curves (not boxy "towers" with lame '80s roofs)!

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=2898843&postcount=1437

mello

Jun 16, 2007, 6:29 AM

Yeah I agree eburress, it is a shame to see these gorgeous towers that other cities are getting and we are stuck with "The Legend" ha my ass, and Vantage Pointe type of schlock architecture :yuck:

We need something bold and striking in out skyline, something to refresh it. Say that building right there -- Museum Tower in Dallas-- built at say 650ft. would be a really nice signature tower in our skyline if it were built at 7th and Market.

That location is FAR away from the flight path and would be a great spot to put a stunning 650 to 700 foot signature tower in SD's skyline to give it a focal point which it so desperately needs.

Example look at how much better Brisbanes skyline is now that it has two 700 foot plus towers sticking out of its dense cluster of 500 footers....

HurricaneHugo

Jun 16, 2007, 10:44 AM

for a second there i thought that was proposed here....

...then my dreams were horribly crushed =(

spoonman

Jun 16, 2007, 3:48 PM

That tower seems like Cosmo's style mixed with Electra's height...I love it:tup:

PS: That area around that tower makes me feel less bad about Pantoja Park and it's low-rise neighborhood

eburress

Jun 16, 2007, 4:03 PM

^^ Oh sorry - I didn't mean to get anyone's hopes up! :)

Speaking of towers in Texas, I just got back from a trip to Dallas and Austin, and both cities have a number of really spectacular 500ft+ buildings going up. I'm excited for them but it makes me very sad that the same thing will never happen in San Diego.

eburress

Jun 16, 2007, 4:06 PM

That tower seems like Cosmo's style mixed with Electra's height...I love it:tup:

PS: That area around that tower makes me feel less bad about Pantoja Park and it's low-rise neighborhood

That park in the foreground is a perfect example of something that would be great for San Diego. It is going to be built over a sunken portion of Woodall Rogers freeway.

Edit -> Museum Tower will be 560ft, so it's actually a little taller than Electra's height.

mello

Jun 16, 2007, 8:30 PM

I just wanted to post this shot because I think it pertains to our
discussion of San Diego "breaking through" the 500 foot barrier.
Up until 2005 Brisbane's skyline was quite similar to ours, it had
good density but no towers taller then 550 feet. Now here it is with
a 620 footer and a 750 footer.

I think Brisbane is also a good skyline to compare to San Diego because
of the similar massing and bulk of skyline plus many residential towers
are prominent in this city just like ours. A good percentage of their high
rises are residential compared to many cities that are mostly office.
So take a look: scroll >>>>> Sorry I didn't think it would post so big!

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/b/b3/BrisbaneSkylineFromEast15Oct06.JPG:cheers:

I'll try to resize ;)

eburress

Jun 16, 2007, 9:25 PM

HurricaneHugo

Jun 17, 2007, 5:10 AM

ours is still better

mello

Jun 17, 2007, 6:12 AM

^^^ I know you and I have been around the forums for quite some time so you probably are familiar with the Brisbane skyline and seen it from different angles. I for one have checked it out a lot (along with all the cities in OZ) because I was thinking about moving to that country.

So if you honestly think our skyline is better then I am surprised but of course respect your opinion. That pic isn't the best Brisbane angle and surely isn't a "glamour shot" really showing off the skyline, I just used it to show the bulk and massing of the city.

SDCAL

Jun 17, 2007, 5:23 PM

^^ That is a very nice skyline and those new towers certainly add to its appeal. Obviously some strategically-placed skyscrapers in downtown SD would do a lot for our skyline, but like I said before though, it's too bad it will never happen.

It will happen, it just won't be anytime soon. Maybe by 2030 or something when other cities are building structures we can't even imagine right now, SD will allow things to go up to 600 ft, yippie

Derek

Jun 17, 2007, 5:27 PM

I say by atleast 2020.

eburress

Jun 17, 2007, 6:08 PM

It will happen, it just won't be anytime soon. Maybe by 2030 or something when other cities are building structures we can't even imagine right now, SD will allow things to go up to 600 ft, yippie

hahaha...how depressingly optimistic! In 20 years we'll have buildings that are slightly taller than the ones we have now. Yayyyy!

spoonman

Jun 18, 2007, 7:24 PM

I posted some info about La Jolla Commons under the projects & construction heading. As many of you know, there are others under Vantage Point, Electra, etc. If you have anything to contribute to those, be my guest as it would be nice to "dust them off"

Derek

Jun 18, 2007, 7:44 PM

Speaking of NBC, does anybody have any proposed start dates? Or are the drawings still not up to par?

SDCAL

Jun 18, 2007, 8:13 PM

Speaking of NBC, does anybody have any proposed start dates? Or are the drawings still not up to par?

It may be held up in legal issues. I found this article from the 15th of june:

SAN DIEGO -- A proposed waterfront development on San Diego Bay has generated complaints, lawsuits and concerns about public safety.

The 10News Investigation team heard these complaints and began researching and talking to experts over the past six months. We were spurred on when we learned that the ground underneath the Broadway Navy Complex is similar in some ways to the ground under the Marina District in San Francisco. That area was devastated during the 1989 earthquake.

This report will be considered controversial but there is no controversy when it comes to the extent of damage that can occur when a earthquake hits hard.

"The ground moves 5, 10, 20 feet pulling buildings apart," said Professor Scott Ashford of UCSD School of Engineering.

Some fear the same could happen in San Diego along the downtown waterfront if developers are allowed to build the high rise Navy Broadway Complex.

There are claims that an active earthquake fault may be right under the proposed waterfront project being proposed by developer Doug Manchester.

Here is what we found:

The recently discovered Coronado Fault was active as recently as 500 years ago. It runs under Coronado and San Diego Bay and comes ashore in San Diego near Seaport Village, just south of the proposed complex. Any fault that has had movement in the past 10,000 years is considered an active fault. This Coronado Fault clearly qualifies as active.

"You want to know where it is, what it's capable of and how often it will generate earthquakes that will be a problem to your structure," said Ashford.

A map created in 1859 shows the bay before it was dredged and widened.

More importantly to the 10News investigation, it shows the areas where fill was used to eventually create San Diego's waterfront. Like in San Francisco's Marine District, that fill can cause trouble.

The trouble is liquefaction, which turns the ground into quicksand and can rip foundations wide open.

Geocon are the seismic consultants hired by project developer Manchester. In the Geocon study, it says there geologists "Did not find signs of faulting at the site. It is suitable for the proposed development."

As part of the investigation, 10News had an independent geologist, Dr. Jeffrey Johnson, review the Geocon study.

His 10 page report for the 10News investigation team raises serious issues.

Read Assessment Part I and Assessment Part II.

Read Manchester's response to the seismic concerns.

Johnson said the geology study done for Manchester did not analyze enough data.

Geologist Michael Kennedy said he is also concerned.

Kennedy mapped and named the Coronado fault as part of a Caltrans safety study on the Coronado Bridge in 2001.

Kennedy told 10News "public safety makes it imperative that the exact location of these youthful faults be mapped onshore prior to any development."

Dr. Jeff Babcock at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography is mapping the Coronado fault with 3D technology.

Babcock has not plotted the fault on land yet, but he said he is sure it runs north, under the navy's project and probably where the Port Commission intends to build its new development, as well.

"I would be hard pressed to determine if it's capable of a magnitude seven like the Rose Canyon fault, but we don't know," said Babcock.

10News took these concerns and the geology report to Manchester and the Port Commission, since they're also building in the same area but we have received no responses to our request for an interview. We have offered them copies of the study the 10News I team developed with Dr. Johnson, but no responses yet.

10News then went to the mayor's office. While the mayor was unavailable to talk with us, we did speak to his public information officer.

"It's our understanding Manchester has done a preliminary study, and the navy is satisfied. They've had buildings there for close to 100 years," said mayor's spokesperson Fred Sainz.

Maybe, maybe not. An officer from the US Navy accompanied the 10News Investigative team when we reviewed the 3D maps being developed by Dr. Babcock.

Manchester's attorney sent a letter to the California Coastal Commission, saying Manchester is withdrawing his application for a permit, saying the law doesn't require one for the project.

SDCAL

Jun 18, 2007, 8:17 PM

^^^in addition to the earthquake controversy, i have heard there are some lawsuits being brought against the nbc proposal for unrelated reasons. i'll try to find the details............

SDCAL

Jun 18, 2007, 8:23 PM

anyone know anything about the library??? On the city's website if you go to the library section they act as though it's still going to be built. They sy completion date of '2009" and on the latest minutes from their meetings they said the proposal was sent to the State Library Commission in the last couple of months
They also make reference to some bond measure in the state senate that would allocate $1 billion in library grants, however if you read the fine points they only pay up to $30 million to a single project if it passes. The last I heard the libraries cost would be over $200 million and they only hve $80 million of it so far, $30 million more wouldn't cut it.

Just one other barren lot sitting in East Village with no action :slob: :yuck:

Derek

Jun 18, 2007, 11:23 PM

That earthquake shit is crap. (teehee)

The Marina district in San Francisco was so devasted because it sat on landfill, land dug up from bay excavations or something like that. That definitely is not the case in San Diego. San Diego isn't even located remotely close to a major fault. Besides, there are strict building regulations in place in the state of California to make buildings as earthquake proof as possible. I think they are built on special rollers or something, so the building sways with the ground, kind of like how bridges sway in the wind. I know they have to be able to withstand an earthquake of a 7.0 magnitude (think of the Transamerica Pyramid in San Francisco, it was built to withstand earthquakes stronger than 7.0 and swayed one foot back and forth for one minute in the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake, with a magnitude of 7.1, and suffered absolutely no architectural damage). San Diego will never get hit with an earthquake stronger than a 7.0.

As for the library, I really hope this eventually goes through. Downtown and all of the surrounding neighborhoods are in dire need of a new library. Downtown's current library sucks ass and is a hangout spot for homeless at night (and it smells like piss). This new library would serve thousands of people and is state of the art, providing resources that not everybody has in the neighborhoods on the outskirts of downtown.

Derek

Jun 18, 2007, 11:26 PM

Oh, does anybody have any Lane Field news as well?

HurricaneHugo

Jun 19, 2007, 12:26 AM

Does anybody have any news at all!

mello

Jun 19, 2007, 12:33 AM

^^^ Yeah I know this town is starting to lag a little bit. Lane Field, Ballpark Village, NBC, lets roll people get some shit going here. Not to mention the old police headquarters, north embarcadero..... I could go on and on.

Derek

Jun 19, 2007, 1:01 AM

NEVP is still a go from what I have heard. They are just waiting for Lane Field to commence construction.

bmfarley

Jun 19, 2007, 1:13 AM

Yep, that earthquake stuff sounds like crap. There are thousands of faults all across California with many in urban areas. It is something that just needs to be considered during the design phase. The Cal Berkeley football stadium is built right on top of one! And they intend to rebuild it right where it is.

And as for the SF Marina District... the Loma Prieta ruptured 100-150 miles away near Santa Cruz. The SF Marina District felt it because of the Bay Mud that it was built upon.... and 60 year old buildings and their foundations not built to todays standards. It was not because of the location of the fault.

So for that matter... any fault in the San Diego area capable of what Loma Prieta did... is also relevant. It's not just the one in our Marina District! And, as mentioned above, faults are dealt with with the design.

I would guesstimate that the fault in our Marina District will be dealt with by pilings being driven into the ground to provide a solid base for the foundation. The fault should certainly NOT be fatal to any project in our Marina District!

As an aside... there are hundreds of highway/freeway bridges, or rail line bridges crossing faults in California and across the world. they cannot be avoided.

SDCAL

Jun 19, 2007, 1:40 AM

^^^in addition to the earthquake controversy, i have heard there are some lawsuits being brought against the nbc proposal for unrelated reasons. i'll try to find the details............

OK, this article summarizes the other complaints about NBC

http://www.c3sandiego.org/BroadwayComplex.html

This is from Jan 07 and I am not sure how much of it is just people complaining or actual lawsuites filed that may delay or even kill construction

The two main complaints various groups have are :

(1) That the environmental impact report is outdated and incomplete; NBC developers are using a report from 1992 instead of doing a more current one

(2) That high-rises should be set back from the coastal area so as not to create a "wall" that makes a view from the bay one-dimensional instead of two-dimesional by having shorter buildings to the front and taller ones set back

SDCAL

Jun 19, 2007, 1:46 AM

bmfarley

Jun 19, 2007, 1:52 AM

other local news, not to do with high-rises, but the city council passed an ordinace to ban "box stores" such as the super-walmarts that include grocery stores. The mayor vetoed it, but the city council memebers are expected to over-ride the veto and it will then go to voters.

I m actually IN FAVOR of the ordinance and pissed that mayor Sanders vetoed it. I think huge chain stores hurt unique ma and pop business that are local and unique and they encourage the drive and park and one-stop shop then drive home syburban mentality. This is the kind of shit that makes every city in America look exactly the same - - BLAND!
My only issue with Walmarts and Targets and the alike... are their architectural designs and use of land. Parking should be underground... or in back. Not in front separating the store entrance from the street.

I don't care about ma and pop stores.. or the fine grain retail as has been used here before. They are nice and have importance, but not at the expense of choice.

SDCAL

Jun 19, 2007, 2:00 AM

So I am flying out of the country at the end of this week for a couple weeks. Normally I shuttle up to LA on a small flight operated by either United Express or AA (American Eagle)

This time my return flight gets in LAX around 9:45pm, the only direct flight from the city I am returning from to the west coast. Due to a "curfew" in San Diego, the last flight from LAX to SAN is at 10:30. I would not have enough time to go through customs and make the flight. My only ooptions are to take a shuttle to LAX or stay the night at a hotel and fly out the next morning :(

Not only is our airports location impractical due to space constraints, but the proximity to neighborhoods that creates this curfew adds to the rediculousness.

I am so fed up with the airport I could just scream. I have decided just to drive to LAX and park my car there. I wonder how many other people just by-pass SAN altogether for international flights and then aren't even included in the "statistics' for would-be international travelers out of Lindbergh Field becasue they don't even set-foot in it and just go straight up to LA?

eburress

Jun 19, 2007, 2:13 AM

^^ I do. I drive up to LA all the time to catch flights.

Derek

Jun 19, 2007, 2:43 AM

^I drive up too. The curfew is ridiculous. The airport is ridiculous.

Derek

Jun 19, 2007, 2:44 AM

I'm glad they banned superstores. They are ugly and kill smaller businesses.

Derek

Jun 19, 2007, 2:47 AM

OK, this article summarizes the other complaints about NBC

http://www.c3sandiego.org/BroadwayComplex.html

This is from Jan 07 and I am not sure how much of it is just people complaining or actual lawsuites filed that may delay or even kill construction

The two main complaints various groups have are :

(1) That the environmental impact report is outdated and incomplete; NBC developers are using a report from 1992 instead of doing a more current one

(2) That high-rises should be set back from the coastal area so as not to create a "wall" that makes a view from the bay one-dimensional instead of two-dimesional by having shorter buildings to the front and taller ones set back

All those people can suck my balls. The homeless people that hang out in the waterfront park right there by the Midway create more of an environmental impact with thier pissing and littering, not 4-5 star hotels and botiques. As for this "wall". The proposed project is not a "wall". They are relatively tall, slender structures that actually open up more views because the new project creates new roads that go straight to the water front, as opposed to the grey shit that's there right now, with absolutely no views to the water whatsoever (unless of course you are up high).