SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[sanatty]

Plenty, plenty of surface lots all over downtown to build high rises. Little Italy, Cortez Hill and East Village has plenty of them.

My thoughts exactly - In just my littler corner of downtown I see 4 prime surface lots between Columbia and the waterfront and between Ash an B street.

[nhalden]

Any tips on where I should be looking to live for accepting a new fairly high paying job in the Sorrento Valley area?

I like walkable, urban, fun areas with lots of high rises so I was thinking maybe the north end of downtown like Hillcrest? That still seems like a pretty long commute though. Especially since my preferred method of commute is bicycle (right now I do about 10miles each way).

Pacific beach also seems like a cool area, but is it too far and separated from the bigger downtown areas like gaslamp / little italy? How realistic is it to live near pacific beach if I'd want to be going out in gaslamp etc?

Are there any up and coming areas in the middle with lots of development happening?

[Will O' Wisp]

Big news about Manchester Pacific Gateway that somehow slipped by: the southern 2/3rds of the leasehold was sold to IQHQ of Solana Beach in the first week of July (https://hughesmarino.com/san-diego/blog/2020/07/14/can-life-science-save-downtown-san-diego/). Apparently they plan on redesigning the area into a life sciences complex, aka medical offices and labs. "Tens of millions of dollars" have already changed hands, and the author theories a major pharma company may have already scoped out the area for a new SoCal HQ.

edit: @sanatty beat me to it. Still, surprised this wasn't discussed more. Also, there's an interesting quote about continued construction in what would seem like difficult times:

Gold has surrounded himself at IQHQ with other real estate life science experts and clearly raised a bunch of money (rumored to be $900 million). And money, in case you have been living in a cave for the last 4 months, is aplenty. As a result of the central bank flooding the markets with cash–and shielding investors from losses–money managers are throwing billions at anything (or anybody) with a solid track record and compelling story. Gold is the track record, and bayfront biotech is the story.

[Will O' Wisp]

Any tips on where I should be looking to live for accepting a new fairly high paying job in the Sorrento Valley area?

I like walkable, urban, fun areas with lots of high rises so I was thinking maybe the north end of downtown like Hillcrest? That still seems like a pretty long commute though. Especially since my preferred method of commute is bicycle (right now I do about 10miles each way).

Pacific beach also seems like a cool area, but is it too far and separated from the bigger downtown areas like gaslamp / little italy? How realistic is it to live near pacific beach if I'd want to be going out in gaslamp etc?

Are there any up and coming areas in the middle with lots of development happening?

Okay, first off downtown ends at the 5. Not a big issue, but locals will look at you weird if you include Hillcrest in downtown.

I would keep in mind you need to cross four major valleys between Hillcrest and Sorrento Valley with very few connections across them, so expect to go further out of you way and spend a lot more time going up and down than you'd think looking at it on the map. I don't know anyone who's ever done it, most people would look at you like you're crazy for even trying. PB is only slightly better, although after the Mid-Coast trolley extension opens up next year it should be much more doable.

PB has no high rises FYI, Hillcrest only has a few. Both are urban and walkable though. PB can also get noisy at night, it's the 20-somethings' party district (gaslamp tends to skew slightly older). Either one is an easy 15 minute drive or less to gaslamp, but would make for a long and unpleasant walk. Again, the Mid-Coast Trolley extension will change a bit of that for PB.

Based on your likes, I think you might prefer Banker's Hill if you want a walkable connection to downtown that isn't physically in downtown (make sure you're okay with airport noise though!). You can also look at UTC, tons of high rise development there and it's only ~2 miles from Sorrento Valley, and it will have a direct connection to downtown after the Mid-Coast Trolley extension opens (walkability leaves something to be desired though in my experience). Finally North Park is urban and walkable, has a lot of mid-rise development, and you can take the BRT on the 15 straight to Sorrento Valley.

[HurricaneHugo]

Any tips on where I should be looking to live for accepting a new fairly high paying job in the Sorrento Valley area?

I like walkable, urban, fun areas with lots of high rises so I was thinking maybe the north end of downtown like Hillcrest? That still seems like a pretty long commute though. Especially since my preferred method of commute is bicycle (right now I do about 10miles each way).

Pacific beach also seems like a cool area, but is it too far and separated from the bigger downtown areas like gaslamp / little italy? How realistic is it to live near pacific beach if I'd want to be going out in gaslamp etc?

Are there any up and coming areas in the middle with lots of development happening?

Walkable and urban point to Hillcrest and North Park. Driving would be like a 45 min drive to Sorrento Valley each way. Though you say you bike, not sure if it's possible to maybe bike to Old town, get the coaster to Sorrento Valley, then bike the rest?

[nhalden]

Okay, first off downtown ends at the 5. Not a big issue, but locals will look at you weird if you include Hillcrest in downtown.

I would keep in mind you need to cross four major valleys between Hillcrest and Sorrento Valley with very few connections across them, so expect to go further out of you way and spend a lot more time going up and down than you'd think looking at it on the map. I don't know anyone who's ever done it, most people would look at you like you're crazy for even trying. PB is only slightly better, although after the Mid-Coast trolley extension opens up next year it should be much more doable.

PB has no high rises FYI, Hillcrest only has a few. Both are urban and walkable though. PB can also get noisy at night, it's the 20-somethings' party district (gaslamp tends to skew slightly older). Either one is an easy 15 minute drive or less to gaslamp, but would make for a long and unpleasant walk. Again, the Mid-Coast Trolley extension will change a bit of that for PB.

Based on your likes, I think you might prefer Banker's Hill if you want a walkable connection to downtown that isn't physically in downtown (make sure you're okay with airport noise though!). You can also look at UTC, tons of high rise development there and it's only ~2 miles from Sorrento Valley, and it will have a direct connection to downtown after the Mid-Coast Trolley extension opens (walkability leaves something to be desired though in my experience). Finally North Park is urban and walkable, has a lot of mid-rise development, and you can take the BRT on the 15 straight to Sorrento Valley.

Can you give an example of the UTC area with highrises? Looking on google maps all I see is a shopping mall and residential area... maybe I’m not looking at the right place?

[JerellO]

Can you give an example of the UTC area with highrises? Looking on google maps all I see is a shopping mall and residential area... maybe I’m not looking at the right place?

UTC area is a joke of an urban area.. it’s mainly a popular shopping mall with low rise to single family homes and surrounded with suburban office parks. It’s NOT your traditional urban area like downtown, bankers hill, North park, or Hillcrest Which to me are more walkable and urban than the UTC area will ever be... even though they will have the trolley line soon. A trolley line doesn’t mean they’re urban and pedestrian friendly hahaha look at Chula Vista or national city

[dirt patch]

Good news, but worried to not see 7th/Market listed. If other projects are able to get funding and proceed despite COVID-19, I wonder if that one will?Pretty much the end of it, if I read it right.

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2020/jul/29/radar-san-diego-ritz-carlton-political-skids/

[CrookedRecords]

Does anybody know what's going up near St. Vincent de Paul on Imperial and 15th?

I'm hoping for a 40+ story megatall.:D

Imperial and 15th is very close to 14th and Commercial so you may be referring to Father Joe's Village - Affordable Housing. It will be a 407 unit 15 story building...

[mello]

Pretty much the end of it, if I read it right.

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2020/jul/29/radar-san-diego-ritz-carlton-political-skids/


I don't see how what that article says signals the end of anything for 7th and Market.

Jerello, single family homes in UTC area, hmm maybe a few here and there. I'm not saying its a great urban area but there are a decent amount of high rises and it is clearly San Diego's second skyline.

Will O Wisp: BRT up 15 to Sorrento Valley umm Sorrento Valley is way west of the I-15 what are you talking about.

H Hugo: 45 minutes to Sorrento Valley from Downtown LOOOL. You seriously think traffic is coming back. Look at unemployment rate and how many people will just continue to work from home going forward. I'm making a prediction now traffic is never coming back in SD. Economy still has much further to fall not to mention the looming dollar crisis/devaluation of purchasing power so I think the days of 45 min commute from DT to SV/UTC is over. :tup:

[JerellO]

I don't see how what that article says signals the end of anything for 7th and Market.

Jerello, single family homes in UTC area, hmm maybe a few here and there. I'm not saying its a great urban area but there are a decent amount of high rises and it is clearly San Diego's second skyline.

Will O Wisp: BRT up 15 to Sorrento Valley umm Sorrento Valley is way west of the I-15 what are you talking about.

H Hugo: 45 minutes to Sorrento Valley from Downtown LOOOL. You seriously think traffic is coming back. Look at unemployment rate and how many people will just continue to work from home going forward. I'm making a prediction now traffic is never coming back in SD. Economy still has much further to fall not to mention the looming dollar crisis/devaluation of purchasing power so I think the days of 45 min commute from DT to SV/UTC is over. :tup:

True that it’s San Diego’s second skyline, but it doesn’t have that urban street grid and walkability that downtown has. And majority of it’s high rises are just office parks.. or maybe I just don’t explore enough up there. I did see some towers rising near UCSD and that blacks beach hike entrance

[HurricaneHugo]

H Hugo: 45 minutes to Sorrento Valley from Downtown LOOOL. You seriously think traffic is coming back. Look at unemployment rate and how many people will just continue to work from home going forward. I'm making a prediction now traffic is never coming back in SD. Economy still has much further to fall not to mention the looming dollar crisis/devaluation of purchasing power so I think the days of 45 min commute from DT to SV/UTC is over. :tup:

I sure hope you're right! :yes:

[Will O' Wisp]

Will O Wisp: BRT up 15 to Sorrento Valley umm Sorrento Valley is way west of the I-15 what are you talking about.


Guy said he was already riding his bike 10 miles each way for his commute, figured riding ~6 miles each way across Mira Mesa wouldn't be much of an issue...

But @sanatty here's the TLDR: You want urban walkability you can go to North Park, PB, or Hillcrest. You want to see tall buildings, you can go to UTC. But if you want both, the only place to have it is downtown.

[mello]

Guy said he was already riding his bike 10 miles each way for his commute, figured riding ~6 miles each way across Mira Mesa wouldn't be much of an issue...
.

So he would have to ride his bike to the 15 and El Cajon Blvd or University from where ever he lives in North Park or University Heights both of those streets aren't too bike friendly IMO so you can take back streets.

Then Mira Mesa Blvd is super sketchy to bike down. I'm there all the time for work and I never really see people biking on it. Super busy road with tons of distracted drivers. I guess he could do this, I personally wouldn't recommend it. I say just live in Cortez Hill, Bankers Hill (North Side outside of flight path), or Little Italy. If you can afford these places.

[Will O' Wisp]

So he would have to ride his bike to the 15 and El Cajon Blvd or University from where ever he lives in North Park or University Heights both of those streets aren't too bike friendly IMO so you can take back streets.

Then Mira Mesa Blvd is super sketchy to bike down. I'm there all the time for work and I never really see people biking on it. Super busy road with tons of distracted drivers. I guess he could do this, I personally wouldn't recommend it. I say just live in Cortez Hill, Bankers Hill (North Side outside of flight path), or Little Italy. If you can afford these places.

Not gonna disagree with any of that, the commune just seemed friendlier than biking alongside the 5 from PB or crossing Mission Valley twice a day from Hillcrest. I wanna give the guy options but honestly, there aren't really any walkable neighborhoods within reasonable biking distance of Sorrento Valley.

Speaking from experience, living in the southern part of Banker's Hill isn't actually that bad. The airliners have their engines pulled back for landing, so the noise is quieter than the freeway. With the doors and windows closed it's barely noticeable, and even with them open isn't that much noisier on the whole than it would be living in any other major metro's downtown. The only exception is when the weather is bad enough that airport switches directions to take off over Banker's Hill, which only happens a few times a year and still isn't enough to wake me from sleep personally.

[JerellO]

So someone on fb posted a pic of that restaurant on the waterfront being completed and there were people eating there.. has anyone been passed it?

[SDCAL]

Pretty much the end of it, if I read it right.

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2020/jul/29/radar-san-diego-ritz-carlton-political-skids/

I’m not sure what this article means. Most of it is political stuff.

The one relevant part I can find:

“According to a July 8 disclosure filing, Sheppard Mullin has been retained by Cisterra to lobby for approval of “land use entitlements, environmental analysis, including Site Development Permit, Development and Disposition Agreement and related approvals for development of a mixed-use project including residential, hotel, commercial and cultural uses at 7th & Market in the Centre City area of downtown San Diego.””

That tells me the project is not dead if in July 2020 they are still active in litigating the land use.

I am, however, confused because I thought this project already had full entitlements and lawsuits settled, so not sure why they are still litigating for land use permits at this point?

Also, back when the Ritz project was approved wasn’t it unanimously approved bi-partisan by the city council ?

[HurricaneHugo]

Imagine if we had built this subway system in 1975...

https://i.redd.it/9anggmsbile51.png

[JerellO]

Imagine if we had built this subway system in 1975...

https://i.redd.it/9anggmsbile51.png

I remember reading about this when I was researching San Diego’s transit history. The city wanted to build a subway system similar to BART in the Bay Area, but due to costs they chose the trolley system instead unfortunately. I feel like the subway system would have changed our civic and transportation culture had it been implemented instead. Now we’re playing catch-up like LA, even they are ahead of the game.

[dl3000]

Imagine if we had built this subway system in 1975...

https://i.redd.it/9anggmsbile51.png

Schwing!

[HurricaneHugo]

What exactly is the issue with 101 Ash?

Seems like that's the only chance Barbara Bry has

[Will O' Wisp]

Well, lucky you because we all have a chance to relive the 1970s San Diego transit experience.


Can Hasan Ikhrata sell San Diego on a $177 billion transit revolution in a pandemic? (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/transportation/story/2020-08-08/hasan-ikhrata-san-diego-transit)


By Joshua Emerson Smith
Aug. 8, 2020
8 PM

Only the security guards were there to greet Hasan Ikhrata on Thursday morning in the lobby of Wells Fargo Plaza downtown, where San Diego’s premiere regional transportation planning agency is headquartered.

Several flights up, Ikhrata walked into an empty room, labeled Vision Lab, wearing a surgical mask and his signature pinstripe suit. Five months ago, he would’ve been greeted by dozens of planners and data experts, feverishly pouring over maps and computer models.

Today, Ikhrata’s nearly two-year-old campaign to revolutionize San Diego with a multibillion-dollar expansion of public transit has run headlong into the worst pandemic in a century.

Trolley and bus ridership have been more than cut in half. Unemployment is at record levels. Many people are working from home, including most of Ikhrata’s 385 employees at the San Diego Association of Governments, better known as SANDAG.

Still, the agency’s leader comes into the office nearly every day, joined by a small cadre of top lieutenants. He said he’s determined to push forward with his vision — which would cost roughly $177 billion over the next 30 years.

In the lab, Ikhrata pressed several buttons on a large topographic model of San Diego County.

Dotted purple lines lit up across the region’s major urban areas, representing hundreds of miles of new high-speed rail. Green lines appeared over much of the region’s existing highway system, revealing a network of express toll lanes that would also serve buses and carpooling.

“This will resemble Barcelona, Madrid, Paris,” Ikhrata said in his Jordanian accent.

“It will be a much better drive for you, but it will cost a bit more,” he added, acknowledging perhaps the most controversial aspect of his plan. “Every lane should be a toll lane, at some point, if we want this to work.”

He then pointed to a model of his envisioned San Diego Grand Central in the Midway District, which, after years of discussion, would finally connect transit riders to the airport. The massive transportation hub, he explained, would also include lots of new housing, office space and retail, and would spur dense urban growth all around it.

“It will be like another downtown right next to downtown,” he said excitedly.

Ikhrata left the Southern California Association of Governments in Los Angeles to lead SANDAG in December 2018. His main message to the elected leaders who hired him, as well as average residents, has been consistent: Don’t become L.A.

He’s repeatedly argued that without his progressive revolution — which includes not only charging people to drive on freeways but foregoing new parking expansions — San Diego will in time be dogged by the same mind-numbing gridlock.

Ikhrata plans to officially unveil his vision before SANDAG’s board of 21-elected officials from around the region on Friday, Aug. 14. The agency has painstakingly analyzed commuter patterns using computer modeling to determine where roughly 350 miles of new rail track should be constructed.

It’s not clear how well the plan will be received. Conservative leaders who favor freeway expansions over public transit have attacked Ikhrata’s ideas as a doomed attempt at social engineering. They argue few will ride the costly system if it ever gets built.

Some have said that the pandemic, coupled with future technological innovations, will so radically change commuter patterns as to render the plan obsolete by the time it’s under way. They argue that the major job centers of today, for which San Diego has about 15, will likely change over time.

The criticism caries extra punch at time when getting on a packed train or bus currently seems a risky alternative to driving alone, and when the allure of city living has dulled with the closing of restaurants and bars.

“These are mausoleums to an era gone by, getting on a fixed train to a fixed job site,” said Tony Krvaric, the outgoing chair of The Republican Party of San Diego County. “Things are going to change. If anything, have buses and have autonomous driving.”

There’s no shortage of speculation about the extent to which work-from-home policies will become the norm and the impact such a shift could have on commuter patterns.

Still, there’s strong evidence the pandemic’s impact will be largely temporary. While traffic on San Diego’s busiest freeways was down 50 percent in early March, today, traffic has come roaring back to more than 80 percent of normal.

“Right now most of the economy’s still closed and you’ve got jammed roads,” said Michael Manville, a professor of urban planning at UCLA’s Luskin School of Public Affairs. “It seems hard to believe that in 20 years there will be no point to having mass transit to San Diego’s job centers.”

Ikhrata argues that his high-speed rail system will help ensure that those employment centers thrive for decades to come. “This is the perfect time for San Diego to do this,” he said. “All future growth is expected to happen in the urban area, and that’s why this system will make a lot more sense.”

However, if Ikhrata’s vision is to prove relevant over time, it will first need a major injection of public money. Paying for the multibillion-dollar system will likely require a full-cent sales tax increase approved by a two-thirds vote of the public. Ikhrata was hoping to float a ballot measure in the fall of 2022, but that’s uncertain now, with the economy currently on life support.

The San Diego Metropolitan Transit system, which operates much of the region’s transit system, iced its own plans for a sales-tax hike early this year, citing the pandemic. The agency’s proposal was aimed at the November election and would have roughly doubled its $300 million annual budget in order to dramatically expand the region’s bus network, among other upgrades.

Some have argued that SANDAG should embrace a similar strategy, beefing up the region’s existing transit system rather than pursuing grander long-term visions.

“They’re spending the bulk of their planning resources on expensive rail projects that aren’t going to be built for decades in the best-case scenario,” said Colin Parent, executive director of the nonprofit Circulate San Diego. “What they should be spending their attention on are transit improvements that can happen in the more immediate term and that are going to benefit people who are most likely to use transit.”

MTS is now relying on federal emergency funding, as revenue from ticket sales has plummeted. Transit agencies all around the country are in similar straits, pleading with Congress for continued cash infusions.

Despite dips in ridership, fears that public transit could be a hotbed for the virus haven’t materialized so far in San Diego.

Of MTS’ roughly 2,700 employees and contractors, only about 50 have tested positive for the virus and most have returned to work, according to officials. No workers have died, and no community outbreaks have been traced back to public transit.

There’s little evidence to suggest that riding public transit is particularly dangerous compared with other activities, said Melissa Perry, a leading epidemiologist and chair of the Department of Environmental and Occupational Health at George Washington University’s Milken Institute School of Public Health.

“Practicing physical distancing, wearing masks, not touching surfaces, washing before and after riding public transportation, that really is a safe way to travel,” Perry said. “The extent to which you can adhere to those practices is the indicator of risk far more than the actual setting.”

Many community and environmental activists backed the now-withdrawn MTS plan while also pushing for Ikhrata’s grander vision. They argued that a massive expansion of rail service is badly needed to rein in greenhouse gases, encouraging new urban development without further clogging busy surface streets and freeways.

Nicole Capretz, executive director of the San Diego-based Climate Action Campaign, said the region needs to start “playing the long game.”

“No matter what, there’s always going to be a circumstance that makes it seem insurmountable,” she said. “We’ve been postponing this idea of world-class transit for decades. Nothing’s going to be in the ground for decades, so now is the right time to get started.”

Before Ikhrata showed up, groups like the Cleveland National Forest Foundation, Sierra Club and Center for Biological Diversity spent years battling SANDAG in court over its approach to transportation.

Under the previous executive director, Gary Gallegos, the agency secured roughly $2 billion to build the Mid-Coast Trolley extension from downtown University City. However, much of agency approach centered on expanding freeways, using new bus and carpool lanes. Gallegos and his team regularly dismissed calls by advocates to pursue the type of transit expansion Ikhrata has proposed.

Today, San Diego’s transit system is often sluggish compared with driving and primarily serves low-income residents without cars. Those with a vehicle have little incentive to ride a bus or trolley to work, as it can add hours to a daily commute.

Ikhrata has said his goal is to make taking transit at least as fast as driving. That parity is important, he argues, if the region is serious about meeting state-mandated climate targets aimed at limiting tailpipe pollution.

However, he acknowledged that getting people to switch from driving to riding transit won’t be easy. Los Angeles has spend billions building out its rail system over the last few decades, only to see ridership decline.

A major issue is the region’s longstanding hesitation to discourage people from using the freeway system. Nearly all transportation experts agree that instituting some form of congestion pricing, where tolls increase during gridlock traffic, is the lynchpin for a system like Ikhrata’s.

Ikhrata said that during his time in Los Angeles, he oversaw major investments in public transit but often sidestepped tough conversations about pricing the freeway system.

“I catered to the politician who said, ‘This is great, but don’t talk about pricing,’” Ikhrata said regretfully about his time at SCAG. “Here we’re saying, ‘Let’s talk about it up front.’”

Selling this idea promises to be a daunting political challenge. Perhaps more than anything, San Diego’s mayoral election in November will play a pivotal role in its success or failure.

Ikhrata could have a difficult time selling his vision and congestion pricing if City Councilwoman Barbara Bry prevails.

“This is another rush deal during the COVID-19 pandemic,” Bry said of Ikhrata’s vision. “After the pandemic ends, we should step back to see how remote working and commute patterns change and what this will mean for future transit needs.”

However, plans for a new high-speed rail system in San Diego could receive a significant boost if Assemblyman and former San Diego City Councilman Todd Gloria becomes the city’s next mayor.

“This is the time to move forward with big plans for our regional transportation system,” Gloria said. “Making strategic investments in public infrastructure is a sound and proven form of economic stimulus that I believe we need in order to get out of this recession.”

Personally, I think this one is just going to be a bridge too far. $177 billion over thirty years is nearly one and a half times what LA county's 2016 Measure M, and that was in a county with three times our population. Given Measure M used a 1% sales tax to fund itself, that would imply a 4.5% sales tax for this plan. No city in America funds transit at that anything close to that level.

[sanatty]

What a waste of money hiring Ikhrata was... Given the experience with HSR in California, the last attempt at a regional sales tax by SANDAG, SANDAG's history of bad estimates and broken promises... this has a near-zero chance of passing.

Well, lucky you because we all have a chance to relive the 1970s San Diego transit experience.



Personally, I think this one is just going to be a bridge too far. $177 billion over thirty years is nearly one and a half times what LA county's 2016 Measure M, and that was in a county with three times our population. Given Measure M used a 1% sales tax to fund itself, that would imply a 4.5% sales tax for this plan. No city in America funds transit at that anything close to that level.

[Will O' Wisp]

What exactly is the issue with 101 Ash?

Seems like that's the only chance Barbara Bry has

-City is renting a half dozen places across downtown to house employees
-Office rents are rising, City realizes it would be good idea to buy a building rather than pay all this rent
-City notices a building just across the street from City Hall has become vacant
-Building owner offers building to City, says building has some asbestos on the support beams above the ceiling but it hasn't been a problem in the past
-City buys building
-City decides it wants to renovate the building, tears out all the nonstructural walls, ceiling panels, etc
-Vibrations cause all the asbestos to crack and fall off the support beams into all sorts of nooks and crannies
-County of San Diego rates the building as uninhabitable
-City commissions third-party evaluation of this massive screw up, finds that no quality inspections were made of the asbestos prior to buying the building and no considerations were given to if the renovations could cause it to crack and fall
-Third-party evaluation finds that it would cost more than the building is worth to fix it and make it habitable for city workers
-City is very, very unhappy

Bry wants to use this against Gloria because he (as a member of city council at the time) made the motion to approve buying the building. Gloria has responded that Bry made the motion to approve the renovations. Everyone else is unhappy with the city staff, who made the recommendation to the city council that they buy the building without checking to see if the city could properly use it, and their boss Mayor Falconer. It turns out the guy who sold it to the City was Papa Doug Manchester, the biggest donator to Mayor Falconer's political campaigns, and this was not presented to the city council. Not telling council this was a violation of the city charter, and some members of the council say this makes the whole deal illegal and void.

[Northparkwizard]

-City is renting a half dozen places across downtown to house employees
-Office rents are rising, City realizes it would be good idea to buy a building rather than pay all this rent
-City notices a building just across the street from City Hall has become vacant
-Building owner offers building to City, says building has some asbestos on the support beams above the ceiling but it hasn't been a problem in the past
-City buys building
-City decides it wants to renovate the building, tears out all the nonstructural walls, ceiling panels, etc
-Vibrations cause all the asbestos to crack and fall off the support beams into all sorts of nooks and crannies
-County of San Diego rates the building as uninhabitable
-City commissions third-party evaluation of this massive screw up, finds that no quality inspections were made of the asbestos prior to buying the building and no considerations were given to if the renovations could cause it to crack and fall
-Third-party evaluation finds that it would cost more than the building is worth to fix it and make it habitable for city workers
-City is very, very unhappy

Bry wants to use this against Gloria because he (as a member of city council at the time) made the motion to approve buying the building. Gloria has responded that Bry made the motion to approve the renovations. Everyone else is unhappy with the city staff, who made the recommendation to the city council that they buy the building without checking to see if the city could properly use it, and their boss Mayor Falconer. It turns out the guy who sold it to the City was Papa Doug Manchester, the biggest donator to Mayor Falconer's political campaigns, and this was not presented to the city council. Not telling council this was a violation of the city charter, and some members of the council say this makes the whole deal illegal and void.

I think this is funny.

I get to talk shit to the same city inspectors that failed to properly inspect the high-rise building they were supposed to move into across the street from where they work.

[Streamliner]

-City is renting a half dozen places across downtown to house employees
-Office rents are rising, City realizes it would be good idea to buy a building rather than pay all this rent
-City notices a building just across the street from City Hall has become vacant
-Building owner offers building to City, says building has some asbestos on the support beams above the ceiling but it hasn't been a problem in the past
-City buys building
-City decides it wants to renovate the building, tears out all the nonstructural walls, ceiling panels, etc
-Vibrations cause all the asbestos to crack and fall off the support beams into all sorts of nooks and crannies
-County of San Diego rates the building as uninhabitable
-City commissions third-party evaluation of this massive screw up, finds that no quality inspections were made of the asbestos prior to buying the building and no considerations were given to if the renovations could cause it to crack and fall
-Third-party evaluation finds that it would cost more than the building is worth to fix it and make it habitable for city workers
-City is very, very unhappy

Bry wants to use this against Gloria because he (as a member of city council at the time) made the motion to approve buying the building. Gloria has responded that Bry made the motion to approve the renovations. Everyone else is unhappy with the city staff, who made the recommendation to the city council that they buy the building without checking to see if the city could properly use it, and their boss Mayor Falconer. It turns out the guy who sold it to the City was Papa Doug Manchester, the biggest donator to Mayor Falconer's political campaigns, and this was not presented to the city council. Not telling council this was a violation of the city charter, and some members of the council say this makes the whole deal illegal and void.

Wow, thanks for the quick rundown. Sounds like everyone screwed up on this one. Also, how did City Council not know that Manchester was the one selling the property? Isn't that like one of the first pieces of information you know when buying something? Was it some sort of shell corporation that nobody looked into?

[Will O' Wisp]

I think this is funny.

I get to talk shit to the same city inspectors that failed to properly inspect the high-rise building they were supposed to move into across the street from where they work.

To be fair to those city inspectors, the problem wasn't that they did a bad inspection. The problem was that no proper inspection was done at all. The City's executive management essentially took the seller's word for it that everything was fine.

Wow, thanks for the quick rundown. Sounds like everyone screwed up on this one. Also, how did City Council not know that Manchester was the one selling the property? Isn't that like one of the first pieces of information you know when buying something? Was it some sort of shell corporation that nobody looked into?

-The city council was only told about the shell company for reasons that are still unclear.
-Yes, it's even written in the city charter that city staff are required to tell these things to the city council.
-Essentially, but some have alleged that looking into the shell company might have been discouraged by Mayor Falconer.

The whole thing has become extremely political. At this point we don't really know for sure whether the actions of the City's executive management were incompetent, or fraudulent.

[mello]

Has anyone heard any update on the massive 1200 to 1600 room hotel and almost 400k sq. foot convention center with Vegas style pool on Chula Vista Bayfront? I was at the Marina 2 weeks ago and some earth has been moved around a bit but no digging and no heavy equipment is on site.

[Nv_2897]

Broadway Block standing tall
https://i.imgur.com/Vs4iicO.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/LePN1Af.jpg?1
Pinnacles twin tower project on broadway is making its presence
https://i.imgur.com/uL6tUGT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IO3o3DY.jpg
The little italy office on kettner building is also pretty much topped out
https://i.imgur.com/hvtKqAH.jpg
The crane for the affordable housing tower by father joes villages is up
https://i.imgur.com/kqoyZeb.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wqUGC7r.jpg

[Nv_2897]

The campus at horton renders
https://i.imgur.com/fPvWXnl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/h8v4IQl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gWXAM4Z.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/f6RcnBr.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/hDDwrJf.jpg

[SDCAL]

What a waste of money hiring Ikhrata was... Given the experience with HSR in California, the last attempt at a regional sales tax by SANDAG, SANDAG's history of bad estimates and broken promises... this has a near-zero chance of passing.

Ikhrata was brought in after those failures you mention.

He’s doing the right thing. I applaud him. If San Diego’s short-sighted NIMBY voters vote this down as they probably will, so be it. But that’s not Ikhrata’s fault. He was hired to give an honest evaluation of what SD needs to improve our infrastructure for the coming decades and that’s what he did. What’s he supposed to do, give some half-assed plan because the voters here are NIMBYs?

[Will O' Wisp]

Ikhrata was brought in after those failures you mention.

He’s doing the right thing. I applaud him. If San Diego’s short-sighted NIMBY voters vote this down as they probably will, so be it. But that’s not Ikhrata’s fault. He was hired to give an honest evaluation of what SD needs to improve our infrastructure for the coming decades and that’s what he did. What’s he supposed to do, give some half-assed plan because the voters here are NIMBYs?

Welcome to politics, check your ideals at the door.

I would personally argue Ikhrata is right, this is the level of infrastructure spending needed to get people out of their cars. It's spending on a level not seen in the county since the 1950-60s, when we build freeways in the first place. It's also an investment we haven't seen since the federal government started getting out mass funding of local infrastructure projects. And that's why no other region in the US is even trying for something remotely like this proposal.

And so if this plan is shot down by the voters, as it provably will because every business in the San Diego region will shout and scream about raising taxes higher than almost everywhere else in the nation, where does that leave us? Starting all over again, two years later, and perhaps with Sacramento being far less willing to grant us another extension on our old, car-centric 2015 regional plan.

Or we could do what LA, SF, Portland, and Seattle are doing: construct a more moderate regional plan that focuses primarily on capturing new growth with transit and doesn't attempt to shift everything from autos to trains. Which I'm sure Ikhrata would argue is disingenuous and deceitful and will never lead to anything really changing, but in the end the the CA, OR, and WA state governments aren't prepared to fund that level of spending either so they'll keep greenlighting plans like that until the Green New Deal passes... if the Green New Deal passes.

[HurricaneHugo]

Talking about regional plan's....

SANDAG released a new one:

https://i.redd.it/22bhuhvsc2h51.png

Source:
https://sdforward.com/docs/default-source/2021-regional-plan/5039-sdfrpvisionfivebigmovesonesheets-transitleap-june2019_final.pdf?sfvrsn=52d3f865_2

[Will O' Wisp]

Talking about regional plan's....


That's the regional plan we've all been talking about.

Really interested to see how more specifics on how the routing for the heavy rail component works. By my reckoning the E/W corridor through Mission Valley will stretch about ~14 miles to El Cajon, with a ~3 mile spur tunnel under Hillcrest to the Santa Fe Depot. The "Purple Line" from the 5/15 interchange to the 15/805 merge and then on to Sorrento Valley is ~16 miles. Unless they can be really creative with some of the freeway ROWs that is a ton of tunneling.

[dirt patch]

Welcome to politics, check your ideals at the door.

I would personally argue Ikhrata is right, this is the level of infrastructure spending needed to get people out of their cars. It's spending on a level not seen in the county since the 1950-60s, when we build freeways in the first place. It's also an investment we haven't seen since the federal government started getting out mass funding of local infrastructure projects. And that's why no other region in the US is even trying for something remotely like this proposal.

And so if this plan is shot down by the voters, as it provably will because every business in the San Diego region will shout and scream about raising taxes higher than almost everywhere else in the nation, where does that leave us? Starting all over again, two years later, and perhaps with Sacramento being far less willing to grant us another extension on our old, car-centric 2015 regional plan.

Or we could do what LA, SF, Portland, and Seattle are doing: construct a more moderate regional plan that focuses primarily on capturing new growth with transit and doesn't attempt to shift everything from autos to trains. Which I'm sure Ikhrata would argue is disingenuous and deceitful and will never lead to anything really changing, but in the end the the CA, OR, and WA state governments aren't prepared to fund that level of spending either so they'll keep greenlighting plans like that until the Green New Deal passes... if the Green New Deal passes.
Note* SF isn't really all that and a mid sized city. San Jose is not part of SF when discussing regional growth plan. If SJ wasn't included: why?

[Will O' Wisp]

Note* SF isn't really all that and a mid sized city. San Jose is not part of SF when discussing regional growth plan. If SJ wasn't included: why?

I use SF to mean "Bay Area" because everything from Marin County to San Jose is SF to my SoCal brain.

That said, bay area regional planning is f'd up on so many levels. Regional planning agencies that cross multiple county lines, like ABAG or SCAG, are a joke. The regional agency has no authority to collect taxes itself, so each individual county has to opt into paying additional taxes for new infrastructure. How are you supposed to make a regionwide transit plan when the decision to pay for it is optional?

For SCAG (Hassan's old job), the agency functions more like a think tank. They mainly publish white papers for the intra-county agencies that can actually build things, like LA Metro, to use in their own planning. That works in SoCal because you have massive counties like LA that hold a significant portion of the total metro pop within their own borders.

For the bay area and ABAG though that's not an option, so they had to make an inter-county transit agency (MTC). And then half the bay area promptly opted out of paying for it. That's why progress on BART dried up from the mid-70s when federal funding for major infrastructure projects dried up until a period in the 90s when the dotcom boom made the bay so ridiculously rich adding a few miles of subway line became feasible for SF and SJ to fund by themselves, than then again starting in the 10s with the app boom. But it's so scattershot and wimpy compared to what a rich metro like the bay area could be doing.

[Nv_2897]

New design for Park and Broadway
https://i.imgur.com/peQwWBp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kd0Sytc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/aCtQLrU.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/icJZAHC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/cIFlpIC.jpg
credit to realportfolio on instagram https://www.instagram.com/realportfolio/

[HurricaneHugo]

I like it!

[Will O' Wisp]

Any word on if that awesome rooftop deck will be publicly accessible??

[JerellO]

Ooooo me likey :D when does it break ground?

[Nv_2897]

Ooooo me likey :D when does it break ground?

No much has been said yet the only thing that was said was supposedly soon :) the first phase consists of a 6 story low rise building and the biggest tower which is 38 stories and then the second phase consists of the shorter 36 story tower

[Nv_2897]

Any word on if that awesome rooftop deck will be publicly accessible??

No word yet but that would be so cool if it was publicly accessible those views must be incredible

[SDfan]

I don't know. That developer (Liberty) has no track record of built high-rise projects.

https://www.libertync.com/about

They seem to have only worked and completed low rise apartment complexes in Florida.

[CrookedRecords]

People are reaching out to me right now about 800 Broadway. Sounds like it's going to begin pretty quickly. Not many others in the industry have been contacted yet. I'm thinking info may trickle out over the next few weeks. Has anyone here heard anything about this project recently? Googling the address turn up some basic job info and the renderings...

[dirt patch]

Downtown San Diego's office market is a complete disaster: people are mainly flocking to north county for business activity: https://www.costar.com/article/265419445/downtown-san-diego%E2%80%99s-office-leasing-collapses-amid-coronavirus-pandemic

[eburress]

Downtown San Diego's office market is a complete disaster: people are mainly flocking to north county for business activity: https://www.costar.com/article/265419445/downtown-san-diego%E2%80%99s-office-leasing-collapses-amid-coronavirus-pandemic

This appears to be a nationwide trend. Commercial real estate is hosed.

[SDfan]

Got a nugget of news on 7th & Market:

Change Remains a Constant in East Village

Cisterra plans to follow that with two sizable projects. It plans to break ground on its Cisterra 9G project (https://www.cisterra.com/9g) — named for the two streets that intersect nearby — during the first quarter of 2021. It is looking to the spring of 2023 to finish the building, slated to have a two-floor Target store and 241 apartments for a total of 255,000 square feet. Carrier Johnson + Culture is the architect.

Carrier Johnson also designed a larger project for Cisterra. At 763,000 square feet, the 7th & Market high-rise complex will feature a Ritz Carlton hotel plus 59 residences associated with the hotel, as well as a specialty grocer, apartments and office space. Construction is expected to start by next summer with an opening is anticipated in 2024.

“I’m excited to get them going,” Wood said. “I look forward to having them under construction and delivered.”

https://sdbj.com/news/2020/aug/24/change-remains-constant-east-village/

[mello]

Let's hope they try to break ground a bit sooner then next summer. Who knows what "second wave" or will they call it "third" of CV hits in November/Dec and the whole confusion of what is flu what is Covid etc. will do to the economy. More shutdowns :shrug:

Is it just me or does 9G look like a carbon copy of the Courthouse highrise UC on Broadway just 22 floors instead of 36 or whatever that one is?

[superfishy]

Development for the parking lots near Petco Park: https://eastvillagequarterinput.org/resources/assets/pdf/Brookfield_Properties_EVQ.pdf

The tallest of the 5 highrises looks like it could be a 500 footer.

[superfishy]

https://i.imgur.com/7MlnLLY.png

https://i.imgur.com/7rxxbYt.png

[Will O' Wisp]

Development for the parking lots near Petco Park: https://eastvillagequarterinput.org/resources/assets/pdf/Brookfield_Properties_EVQ.pdf

The tallest of the 5 highrises looks like it could be a 500 footer.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/6e6b11fe75f0fdd245b1be0e65e02356/tenor.gif?itemid=14811945

[Streamliner]

Pleasantly surprised by this development. Looks good! Hopefully it doesn't get watered down

[dirt patch]

https://i.imgur.com/7MlnLLY.png

https://i.imgur.com/7rxxbYt.png

Hopefully it breaks ground this year or next year by summer.

[mello]

The city council needs to just rubber stamp approve this thing and try to get a ground breaking ASAP because if they wait and the Coyote begins to drop (metaphor of cartoon where he runs of the cliff and is suspended in mid air before falling in to the abyss) on this economy it will not get financed.

Even the Fed and Goldman Sachs are saying the white collar blood letting of jobs is right around the corner so lets keep our fingers crossed that this puppy can get started. What chances do you guys give it :shrug:

* I wonder if cities are just saying to themselves hey lets try to get as much construction started right now so we can have some economic activity going on because if they dilly dally like normal in "good times" they will miss out on the construction jobs etc.

[Will O' Wisp]

The city council needs to just rubber stamp approve this thing and try to get a ground breaking ASAP because if they wait and the Coyote begins to drop (metaphor of cartoon where he runs of the cliff and is suspended in mid air before falling in to the abyss) on this economy it will not get financed.

Even the Fed and Goldman Sachs are saying the white collar blood letting of jobs is right around the corner so lets keep our fingers crossed that this puppy can get started. What chances do you guys give it :shrug:

* I wonder if cities are just saying to themselves hey lets try to get as much construction started right now so we can have some economic activity going on because if they dilly dally like normal in "good times" they will miss out on the construction jobs etc.

Not necessarily. We are in just the weirdest damn economy right now.

rn we've got a higher unemployment rate than anytime since the great depression and a looming eviction crisis, so obviously thing are not great. To combat this the federal reserve has been printing money at an exorbitant rate, just giving anyone with a checkbook and a smile all the cash they want, partially to dull the effects of the crisis on the general public and partially because the WH wants to see the stock market recover.

On that latter front this response has been extremely effective, the stock market has recovered and even grown since March. But it's a bit a facade, the stock market has recovered its previous numerical value because by printing all this money dollars are worth less aka inflation. So right now if you own a bunch of dollars, you'll want to turn them into something else because they're losing value. You could exchange them for another currency, but nearly every other government is doing the same thing so that's not as good an option. Or, you can convert them into a fixed asset aka real estate.

Ideally you'd like to buy something that's already there, but property owners know all of the above so they're no looking to sell. So another option is to build in a safe market. Because there's so much money floating around borrowing is cheap, and labor is cheap because everyone is looking for a job. San Diego is a biotech hub, and biotech is one of the few growing markets (for reasons I think should be fairly clear). The stars have aligned to make seemingly crazy projects feasible.

Oh and if you're wondering what the downside to all this is, you know besides all the death and homelessness and violent social unrest, inflation hurts anyone who can't readily convert their dollars into something else. Usually retirees are hit hardest. Also wage growth tends to lag behind inflation, so you'll be getting the same paycheck every week but it won't buy as much. For people living on minimum wage, which rarely changes, thing are going to get even worse than they are now.

[mello]

One question though. Is there enough demand for biotech office space in DTSD to make the project on the Manchester land pencil (the new proposal from biotech giant guy forgot name), fill up Horton Plaza for Stockdale Capital, and this proposal on Petco Lot? That is a TON of new office space needing to be filled :shrug:

Like someone else noted a few posts ago there is already a lot of space from Del Mar Heights thru UTC/Sorrento Mesa being built or repurposed for biotech.

[Will O' Wisp]

One question though. Is there enough demand for biotech office space in DTSD to make the project on the Manchester land pencil (the new proposal from biotech giant guy forgot name), fill up Horton Plaza for Stockdale Capital, and this proposal on Petco Lot? That is a TON of new office space needing to be filled :shrug:

Like someone else noted a few posts ago there is already a lot of space from Del Mar Heights thru UTC/Sorrento Mesa being built or repurposed for biotech.

Yeah, with so much free money floating around projects are being proposed/built with weaker and weaker economic justifications. The markets are spooked and acting irrationally, everyone is dumping money in what "feels" safe without really thinking if they're overbuilding. It's unlikely San Diego will need this much biotech office space in the near future, but it seems more likely than most other things to invest in.

But at a certain point actually having people inhabit the office space can be secondary to just preserving value. With borrowing so cheap, you can afford to leave these buildings partially filled for years. As long as you think that eventually, someone will lease the space it can be a reasonable investment.

Also MPG and the Petco Lot are strategic investments. A big investor like Manchester or Brookfield will put their hat in the ring now just to preserve the opportunity to build when the economy is better. There costs associated with that, including the cost of cancelling the whole thing if the economy doesn't recover at the rate you're expecting it to, but the potential benefits often outweigh them.

[IconRPCV]

Would have been so good!

[IconRPCV]

Imagine if we had built this subway system in 1975...

https://i.redd.it/9anggmsbile51.png

This would have been a game changer. They should have just gone with this with design with the trolley. I always don't understand why there is not a line serving the uptown neighborhoods and Balboa Park. This is the line people would actually use; it is like they don't want mass transit to work, but they are just going through the motions.

[SDfan]

https://i.imgur.com/7MlnLLY.png

https://i.imgur.com/7rxxbYt.png

Keep in mind this is one of two proposals. The second is by the Padres and is supported by the downtown partnership, chamber and others. It's much more underwhelming...

[HurricaneHugo]

City picks developer for developing new Sports Arena/Entertainment district:

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/aug/29/san-diego-mayor-announces-winning-developer-build-/

[HurricaneHugo]

Keep in mind this is one of two proposals. The second is by the Padres and is supported by the downtown partnership, chamber and others. It's much more underwhelming...

Here's the virtual open house to see both proposals:

https://eastvillagequarterinput.org/

[Will O' Wisp]

City picks developer for developing new Sports Arena/Entertainment district:

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/aug/29/san-diego-mayor-announces-winning-developer-build-/

Wow, there's a pretty good chance Brookfield might end up developing both the sports arena and the petco lot (Brookfield has the proposal we're all drooling over). In a single swoop they'll have gone from relative outsiders in San Diego development to being mentioned in the same breath as Bosa, Manchester, and Stockdale.

[roletand]

Do you think the Padres' proposal is at risk considering Cisterra is part of their JV and the city is now withholding rent payments for 101 Ash?

Voice of San Diego - City Is Halting Rent Payments on 101 Ash St.
(https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/government/city-is-halting-rent-payments-on-101-ash-st/)

Wow, there's a pretty good chance Brookfield might end up developing both the sports arena and the petco lot (Brookfield has the proposal we're all drooling over). In a single swoop they'll have gone from relative outsiders in San Diego development to being mentioned in the same breath as Bosa, Manchester, and Stockdale.

[Will O' Wisp]

Do you think the Padres' proposal is at risk considering Cisterra is part of their JV and the city is now withholding rent payments for 101 Ash?

Voice of San Diego - City Is Halting Rent Payments on 101 Ash St.
(https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/government/city-is-halting-rent-payments-on-101-ash-st/)

That's a public RFP process, so legally the answer is required to be no. If the city even so much as mentions an unproven claim that's currently subject to litigation in its justification for selection, it can expect a lawsuit for acting in an "arbitrary and capricious" manner. Quite frankly, if Cisterra loses there's a good chance they will sue the city regardless if it really played a part or not.

[roletand]

The RFQ/RFP for East Village Quarter doesn't seem to be accessible without creating a vendor login on PlanetBids, however some of the addendum are. I can't see the scoring categories, but the city makes it pretty clear in the Q&A that they can change how they weight them at their discretion.

Question 13. What are the top five factors in determining the winning party? Please rank them.

RESPONSE: Page 9 and 10 of the RFQ provide the City Objectives and the City’s Preferred Development Concept. The RFQ Section 9 Evaluation Criteria identifies the minimum qualifications and evaluation criteria. As stated in section 9, “[t]he weighting of criteria and scoring of submittals shall be determined in the City’s sole discretion.”

Source: THIRD ADDENDUM to Request for Qualifications of Development Teams For the Disposition and Development of East Village Quarter
https://www.planetbids.com/portal/portal.cfm?CompanyID=24128

[Will O' Wisp]

The RFQ/RFP for East Village Quarter doesn't seem to be accessible without creating a vendor login on PlanetBids, however some of the addendum are. I can't see the scoring categories, but the city makes it pretty clear in the Q&A that they can change how they weight them at their discretion.



Source: THIRD ADDENDUM to Request for Qualifications of Development Teams For the Disposition and Development of East Village Quarter
https://www.planetbids.com/portal/portal.cfm?CompanyID=24128

"Arbitrary and capricious" is a legal term, so its meaning may not line up with what the colloquial meaning of the phrase might be.

I'm no lawyer, but the way I've always understood the concept as it relates to RFPs is that public agencies have broad discretion to choose among proposals, but not with who they do business with.

So for example, say a city has some land to lease and gets two proposals to build on it. One proposes to build an apartment complex, a school, some community spaces, and some stores. The other is a billionaire who offers double the rent of anyone else if he can build a giant mansion. The city can say their community will benefit more from additional housing, retail, etc than the extra rent, even if they didn't mention this explicitly in the RFP.

Now lets say I'm a city manager awarding contracts to mow the lawn in front of city hall. You run a gardening company, and submitted the lowest bid to perform the work, but last week I heard you ran over someone's dog. I call you an evil, dog hating monster and give the contract to someone else. That was illegal, because you running over a dog has nothing to do with your employees' ability to mow a lawn. I am using public funds to push a personal vendetta, and acting in an "arbitrary and capricious" manner.

This comes up because at this point there's no proof Cisterra has done anything illegal, or even anything wrong. In court they are going to argue that they didn't know 101 Ash St was full of asbestos, that it was the city's responsibility to check before buying the building and tearing out all the walls, and that the city is trying to punish them rather than admit it acted irresponsibly. And even if Cisterra did screw over the city by selling it a lemon, that alone is hardly proof that they won't build what they say they'll build now.

Not that the city even needs to say that, they can legitimately say that the Brookfield proposal has more housing, a larger investment, etc instead. Cisterra might still sue though just to gain a bargaining chip for the fight over 101 Ash.

[roletand]

Thanks for the breakdown! I hope whatever the decision is, the city and the developer can keep delays to a minimum during negotiation. The Padres are saying they could break ground as soon as 2025, and Brookfield isn't willing to comment on any potential construction date.

Either way, it's a long haul between now and golden shovels in the ground.

[Will O' Wisp]

Welp, I told you guys to prepare for the 1970s experience of watching your transit dreams bite it. Guess here we are.

Internal audit finds SANDAG leadership approved improper payments (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/watchdog/story/2020-09-02/internal-audit-finds-sandag-leadership-exceeded-authority-approved-improper-payments)

Full report (https://www.sandag.org/uploads/meetingid/meetingid_5554_27973.pdf)

I'm trying to wrap my head around all of this but the audit basically alleges that Ikhrata has been running SANDAG as his own personal fiefdom, without any form of oversight, and has used that power abusively. In detail he's being accused of:

-refusing to acknowledge there are any limits to his ability to hire, fire, promote, transfer, or give monetary bonuses to SANDAG employees

-lying to the SANDAG board that they are not allowed any form of oversight, and claiming that he can essentially make his own rules as far as the above goes

-paying several retiring SANDAG employees large severance payments without proper justification (there's a strong implication this was done to keep them from badmouthing him to the press/the SANDAG board)

-giving out monetary bonuses and pay raises to SANDAG employees with little documentation, and sometimes without clear justification

-promoting employees to executive level positions without competition, possibly violating state discrimination laws

-changing employees from full time into at-will employment (so they could be fired without standard process)

-nearly doubling SANDAG's overall salary costs for no real benefit, and hiding this from the SANDAG Board

-harassing the auditor while she was trying to make this report

Ikhrata has responded that this is the way things have always been run at SANDAG, that the Board's oversight role consists of their ability to fire him, and that this auditor is biased against him. Probably not the best move, considering this audit was commissioned by the state after the failures of the last SANDAG administration...

[SDfan]

Welp, I told you guys to prepare for the 1970s experience of watching your transit dreams bite it. Guess here we are.

Internal audit finds SANDAG leadership approved improper payments (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/watchdog/story/2020-09-02/internal-audit-finds-sandag-leadership-exceeded-authority-approved-improper-payments)

Full report (https://www.sandag.org/uploads/meetingid/meetingid_5554_27973.pdf)

I'm trying to wrap my head around all of this but the audit basically alleges that Ikhrata has been running SANDAG as his own personal fiefdom, without any form of oversight, and has used that power abusively. In detail he's being accused of:

-refusing to acknowledge there are any limits to his ability to hire, fire, promote, transfer, or give monetary bonuses to SANDAG employees

-lying to the SANDAG board that they are not allowed any form of oversight, and claiming that he can essentially make his own rules as far as the above goes

-paying several retiring SANDAG employees large severance payments without proper justification (there's a strong implication this was done to keep them from badmouthing him to the press/the SANDAG board)

-giving out monetary bonuses and pay raises to SANDAG employees with little documentation, and sometimes without clear justification

-promoting employees to executive level positions without competition, possibly violating state discrimination laws

-changing employees from full time into at-will employment (so they could be fired without standard process)

-nearly doubling SANDAG's overall salary costs for no real benefit, and hiding this from the SANDAG Board

-harassing the auditor while she was trying to make this report

Ikhrata has responded that this is the way things have always been run at SANDAG, that the Board's oversight role consists of their ability to fire him, and that this auditor is biased against him. Probably not the best move, considering this audit was commissioned by the state after the failures of the last SANDAG administration...

Eh. I'll believe this is impactful if he's fired. Till then, meh.

[sanatty]

Welp, I told you guys to prepare for the 1970s experience of watching your transit dreams bite it. Guess here we are.

Internal audit finds SANDAG leadership approved improper payments (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/watchdog/story/2020-09-02/internal-audit-finds-sandag-leadership-exceeded-authority-approved-improper-payments)

Full report (https://www.sandag.org/uploads/meetingid/meetingid_5554_27973.pdf)

I'm trying to wrap my head around all of this but the audit basically alleges that Ikhrata has been running SANDAG as his own personal fiefdom, without any form of oversight, and has used that power abusively. In detail he's being accused of:

-refusing to acknowledge there are any limits to his ability to hire, fire, promote, transfer, or give monetary bonuses to SANDAG employees

-lying to the SANDAG board that they are not allowed any form of oversight, and claiming that he can essentially make his own rules as far as the above goes

-paying several retiring SANDAG employees large severance payments without proper justification (there's a strong implication this was done to keep them from badmouthing him to the press/the SANDAG board)

-giving out monetary bonuses and pay raises to SANDAG employees with little documentation, and sometimes without clear justification

-promoting employees to executive level positions without competition, possibly violating state discrimination laws

-changing employees from full time into at-will employment (so they could be fired without standard process)

-nearly doubling SANDAG's overall salary costs for no real benefit, and hiding this from the SANDAG Board

-harassing the auditor while she was trying to make this report

Ikhrata has responded that this is the way things have always been run at SANDAG, that the Board's oversight role consists of their ability to fire him, and that this auditor is biased against him. Probably not the best move, considering this audit was commissioned by the state after the failures of the last SANDAG administration...

As I've said before, Ikhrata is a goner. He proposed something that will never fly in our community - talk about failing to "read a room" - and now he's going to get *rightfully* run out of town for this failure.

He proposed a pie-in-the-sky hundred-billion-dollar plus transit plan in the middle of a pandemic (not his fault) to a city and region that are only prepared for incremental change.

On top of that, he proposed a transit system that's ill-suited to San Diego's multi-nodal employment patterns and completely ignored the unique needs of a long and narrow region with employment centers scattered along nearly the region's entire length.

Why he didn't go for the low-hanging fruit of a Purple Line trolley extension, a commuter rail along the 15-corridor and the long promised expansion of the north county freeways (perhaps with transit built into the median)??? Simple, ego and failure to "read the room".

[sanatty]

Eh. I'll believe this is impactful if he's fired. Till then, meh.

Whether or not he's fired (he will be, whether now for this; or later when his plan crashes and burns) - his plan is DOA and there's really no excuse for his failure to "read the room" and propose something that has even an infinitesimal chance of being implemented...

[SDfan]

Whether or not he's fired (he will be, whether now for this; or later when his plan crashes and burns) - his plan is DOA and there's really no excuse for his failure to "read the room" and propose something that has even an infinitesimal chance of being implemented...

I don't agree, nor would I be as over dramatic. At the end of the day we need to transform our transportation system to get folks out of their cars to meet state climate law. Low hanging fruit won't meet state law, Gary proved that time and time again with his failed plans that got tossed out of court. That's what this whole process has been about for Hasan--big change to meet state law. Incrementalism in the face the climate crisis isn't gonna cut it. ;)

[SDCAL]

Whether or not he's fired (he will be, whether now for this; or later when his plan crashes and burns) - his plan is DOA and there's really no excuse for his failure to "read the room" and propose something that has even an infinitesimal chance of being implemented...

This is a catch-22.

Reading the room = catering to NIMBYS.

If we had a non-controversial do nothing in there giving us the same half-assed crap SANDAG has put out the last many decades, people on this board would be complaining about how insufficient the transportation plan is.

I’m not a fan of the corruption that has been swirling but I’m totally behind the plan he put out. Just because San Diegan’s will likely reject it doesn’t mean it’s not a good plan. In fact, that likely means it IS a good plan.

This is the city that had a chance to buy Miramar for $1 in the 1950s and turned it down

This is the city that turned down a smart city hall redevelopment about a decade ago that would have solved their impending leasing issues, and now it’s blown up in their faces with the old Sempra building

This is the city that time and time again has made some of the stupidest, narrow-minded urban planning decisions in the country.

I don’t consider a plan that fails to “read the room” bad at all; in fact, the “room” needs to be told they’ve f’d this city for far too long IMO

[SDCAL]

IS RETAIL DOWNTOWN DEAD?

So, the last remaining tenant of Horton Plaza closed. Jimbos Horton Plaza has only a few days left.

They are in the middle of a construction zone so I guess it shouldn’t be surprising, but there seems to be a really depressing void in downtown lately.

I know some of this is related to COVID-19, but I have to wonder what plans there are (if any) for the future of retail downtown.

There’s literally nothing left. It’s just restaurants and condos. Over the years I know there’s been proposals that have floated about putting a Target or Home Depot or other similar things, but it seems like they’ve all died.

I’m not sure what will be in the ground level of the Horton Plaza redevelopment, they are extremely vague about it.

I think there was supposed to be high end retail at Manchester’s Pacific Gateway and that crashed and burned.

Is there just not enough people living down here for retail? Horton Plaza did good for awhile, so I’m having trouble understand why this is such a huge void downtown.

[sanatty]

I don't agree, nor would I be as over dramatic. At the end of the day we need to transform our transportation system to get folks out of their cars to meet state climate law. Low hanging fruit won't meet state law, Gary proved that time and time again with his failed plans that got tossed out of court. That's what this whole process has been about for Hasan--big change to meet state law. Incrementalism in the face the climate crisis isn't gonna cut it. ;)

Whatever the plan is - it will require a tax passed by 2/3rd’s under state law. A lot of trains and no freeways - state climate law or not - simply won’t get the votes (after broken promises re freeways through past tax measures)... while the courts can invalidate SANDAG’s plans... they lack the power to impose a funding mechanism over the voter’s rejection. Any plan must start with the goal of securing 2/3rd county voter approval for the underlying funding mechanism or it’s all for naught, isn’t it?

[sanatty]

This is a catch-22.

Reading the room = catering to NIMBYS.

If we had a non-controversial do nothing in there giving us the same half-assed crap SANDAG has put out the last many decades, people on this board would be complaining about how insufficient the transportation plan is.

I’m not a fan of the corruption that has been swirling but I’m totally behind the plan he put out. Just because San Diegan’s will likely reject it doesn’t mean it’s not a good plan. In fact, that likely means it IS a good plan.

This is the city that had a chance to buy Miramar for $1 in the 1950s and turned it down

This is the city that turned down a smart city hall redevelopment about a decade ago that would have solved their impending leasing issues, and now it’s blown up in their faces with the old Sempra building

This is the city that time and time again has made some of the stupidest, narrow-minded urban planning decisions in the country.

I don’t consider a plan that fails to “read the room” bad at all; in fact, the “room” needs to be told they’ve f’d this city for far too long IMO

Whether you (or I) like it - any plan needs 2/3rds voter approval for the underlying funding mechanism. Without it - there’s nothing. Courts may be able to invalidate SANDAG plans they deem out of compliance with climate law - they lack power to impose a funding mechanism (tax) - only the voters (your dreaded NIMBYS) can do that. Seems silly not to craft a plan designed to win approval of the very people who... *checks notes* must ultimately approve the darn tax...

[JerellO]

This is a catch-22.

Reading the room = catering to NIMBYS.

If we had a non-controversial do nothing in there giving us the same half-assed crap SANDAG has put out the last many decades, people on this board would be complaining about how insufficient the transportation plan is.

I’m not a fan of the corruption that has been swirling but I’m totally behind the plan he put out. Just because San Diegan’s will likely reject it doesn’t mean it’s not a good plan. In fact, that likely means it IS a good plan.

This is the city that had a chance to buy Miramar for $1 in the 1950s and turned it down

This is the city that turned down a smart city hall redevelopment about a decade ago that would have solved their impending leasing issues, and now it’s blown up in their faces with the old Sempra building

This is the city that time and time again has made some of the stupidest, narrow-minded urban planning decisions in the country.

I don’t consider a plan that fails to “read the room” bad at all; in fact, the “room” needs to be told they’ve f’d this city for far too long IMO

The city that also turned down a bold and extensive subway system that would’ve served all of San Diego county, for a cheaper but weak light rail line

[Will O' Wisp]

This is a catch-22.
This is the city that had a chance to buy Miramar for $1 in the 1950s and turned it down

I'm not going to argue with the rest of your post, since I kinda sorta agree with it, but this myth is one of my pet peeves. The Navy never offer to sell Miramar to San Diego, not for any price.

In late 1947, after the mass drawdowns post-WW2, San Diego asked for and the Navy gave permission for joint use at Miramar. There was an understanding that this was for cargo flights and maybe a few international flights, so long as they didn't interfere with Navy operations. Lindbergh would be kept open to serve the majority of passenger flights. The city was given a 50 year lease on half the aircraft parking areas and development rights to everything south of the runways.

At the time Miramar's runways were too short for commercial airliners, so they would need to be extended before commercial service could start. San Diego at the time was broke, the curtailment of war protection left the unemployment rates at around 33%. In 1948 the city asked the CAB (predecessor to the FAA) for funding. The CAB declined, citing more urgent priorities and that San Diego could make due with just Lindbergh for a few years.

In 1949 congress approved the Woods Plan, which designated Miramar as a Master Jet Station and primary base for all Navy aircraft on the west coast. Funds to expand the airbase weren't appropriated until 1951. From 1949-1951 the city tried very hard to find a way to coexist on Miramar with the Navy, but it was not to be. In 1950 the Navy retook the entire aircraft parking area to make room for Korean War training. In 1952, after the Master Jet Station was completed, the city ceded their development rights under pressure from the Navy. By then it was clear level joint would never be possible.

[SDfan]

I'm not going to argue with the rest of your post, since I kinda sorta agree with it, but this myth is one of my pet peeves. The Navy never offer to sell Miramar to San Diego, not for any price.

In late 1947, after the mass drawdowns post-WW2, San Diego asked for and the Navy gave permission for joint use at Miramar. There was an understanding that this was for cargo flights and maybe a few international flights, so long as they didn't interfere with Navy operations. Lindbergh would be kept open to serve the majority of passenger flights. The city was given a 50 year lease on half the aircraft parking areas and development rights to everything south of the runways.

At the time Miramar's runways were too short for commercial airliners, so they would need to be extended before commercial service could start. San Diego at the time was broke, the curtailment of war protection left the unemployment rates at around 33%. In 1948 the city asked the CAB (predecessor to the FAA) for funding. The CAB declined, citing more urgent priorities and that San Diego could make due with just Lindbergh for a few years.

In 1949 congress approved the Woods Plan, which designated Miramar as a Master Jet Station and primary base for all Navy aircraft on the west coast. Funds to expand the airbase weren't appropriated until 1951. From 1949-1951 the city tried very hard to find a way to coexist on Miramar with the Navy, but it was not to be. In 1950 the Navy retook the entire aircraft parking area to make room for Korean War training. In 1952, after the Master Jet Station was completed, the city ceded their development rights under pressure from the Navy. By then it was clear level joint would never be possible.

Do you recall what happened in the in-between time when the Navy transferred Miramar to the Marines? I thought that was the big opportunity that SD had to claim the airport.

[SDfan]

Whatever the plan is - it will require a tax passed by 2/3rd’s under state law. A lot of trains and no freeways - state climate law or not - simply won’t get the votes (after broken promises re freeways through past tax measures)... while the courts can invalidate SANDAG’s plans... they lack the power to impose a funding mechanism over the voter’s rejection. Any plan must start with the goal of securing 2/3rd county voter approval for the underlying funding mechanism or it’s all for naught, isn’t it?

2/3rds is a high threshold. Let's see if the state keeps it at 2/3rds...

[sanatty]

2/3rds is a high threshold. Let's see if the state keeps it at 2/3rds...

it's up to the voters, not the state, as the 2/3rds threshold is part of the constitution of California.

proposition 13 (passed in 1978) includes a requirement of 2/3rd's majority voter approval for any increase in special taxes (i.e., non-general fund taxes).

the current proposed changes to prop. 13 - labeled proposition 15 - doesn't touch the 2/3rd's requirement and only attempts to alter the method of property tax assessments for commercial properties (recall prop. 13 also caps property tax increases to 1% annually).

the problems are not NIMBYS - they are un-creative politicians and planners that can't successfully market targeted, popular transportation plans (and their associated funding mechanism) to 2/3rds majorities of voters.

pretending that the rules don't apply to "own the NIMBYS" is silly and leads to zero progress.

[SDfan]

it's up to the voters, not the state, as the 2/3rds threshold is part of the constitution of California.

proposition 13 (passed in 1978) includes a requirement of 2/3rd's majority voter approval for any increase in special taxes (i.e., non-general fund taxes).

the current proposed changes to prop. 13 - labeled proposition 15 - doesn't touch the 2/3rd's requirement and only attempts to alter the method of property tax assessments for commercial properties (recall prop. 13 also caps property tax increases to 1% annually).

the problems are not NIMBYS - they are un-creative politicians and planners that can't successfully market targeted, popular transportation plans (and their associated funding mechanism) to 2/3rds majorities of voters.

pretending that the rules don't apply to "own the NIMBYS" is silly and leads to zero progress.

We'll see.

[sanatty]

We'll see.

At some point, the rubber has to hit the road. SANDAG relies on (in addition to the state and mainly federal transpo funding MPO's like SANDAG were set up/required to be set up to administer) TransNet funding which *generously* would raise $18.8 billion during the life of that program's 40-year extension (to 2048). Ikhrata has proposed a $177 billion plan. At it's best, SANDAG has leveraged $3 from state and federal sources for every $1 in TransNet funding. This implies $56.4 billion in state and federal funding to match the $18.8 billion raised by TransNet. That's $75.2 billion total through 2048. Over $100 billion short of the plan's estimated cost. Even if SANDAG could secure passage of a new funding mechanism (they'd need a 2/3rds majority - for certain not "we'll see"), they'd need to raise an additional $25 billion (if we anticipate an additional $3/$1 federal and state matching dollars).

You keep arguing that this is what we need - Ikhrata's plan - but have no idea or plan to GET THERE.

Pie in the sky dreaming is fun, but we are at the rubber meets the road phase and Ikhrata is still day dreaming.

[Will O' Wisp]

Do you recall what happened in the in-between time when the Navy transferred Miramar to the Marines? I thought that was the big opportunity that SD had to claim the airport.

There was no in-between time. On October 1st, 1997 Miramar was transferred directly from the Navy to the Marines. They even had a ceremony where the Navy commanding officer handed over control to the incoming Marine commander.

So what happened was, in the late 80s-early 90s it started becoming clear TOP GUN would be leaving San Diego. The Navy had outgrown Miramar years before, forcing them to transfer a good deal of training to NAS Fallon. It made sense to centralize. At this time the city made it clear that if the military didn't need it anymore, they would be very, very interested in acquiring it for their new airport. To the point of calling up our congressional representation and asking them to get Miramar closed.

The Navy resisted, saying that while the bulk of their training would be shifting to Fallon they still needed Miramar. The Navy does most of their large scale ocean exercises of the coast of San Diego, every other military airbase would be too small or to far away to allow aircraft to fly in support of this training.

The city and the Navy were still arguing about it when in 1993 congress announced El Toro would be closed and the Marines would be coming to Miramar. Made perfect sense from a military perspective, being surrounded by mountains El Toro was a nightmare to fly into and the Navy could still conduct their offshore training with the Marines there. Came as quite a shock to some people in the city though, who thought they were making progress towards convincing the Navy to leave. But realistically, it was probably never in the cards.

[mongoXZ]

Hello everyone, it's been ages since I've been here.:tup:

Honestly didn't know this forum still existed. Why are we still in Boom Rundown 2?

How bout them Padres?:D

[SDfan]

There was no in-between time. On October 1st, 1997 Miramar was transferred directly from the Navy to the Marines. They even had a ceremony where the Navy commanding officer handed over control to the incoming Marine commander.

So what happened was, in the late 80s-early 90s it started becoming clear TOP GUN would be leaving San Diego. The Navy had outgrown Miramar years before, forcing them to transfer a good deal of training to NAS Fallon. It made sense to centralize. At this time the city made it clear that if the military didn't need it anymore, they would be very, very interested in acquiring it for their new airport. To the point of calling up our congressional representation and asking them to get Miramar closed.

The Navy resisted, saying that while the bulk of their training would be shifting to Fallon they still needed Miramar. The Navy does most of their large scale ocean exercises of the coast of San Diego, every other military airbase would be too small or to far away to allow aircraft to fly in support of this training.

The city and the Navy were still arguing about it when in 1993 congress announced El Toro would be closed and the Marines would be coming to Miramar. Made perfect sense from a military perspective, being surrounded by mountains El Toro was a nightmare to fly into and the Navy could still conduct their offshore training with the Marines there. Came as quite a shock to some people in the city though, who thought they were making progress towards convincing the Navy to leave. But realistically, it was probably never in the cards.

Thanks for this!

[roletand]

it's up to the voters, not the state, as the 2/3rds threshold is part of the constitution of California.

proposition 13 (passed in 1978) includes a requirement of 2/3rd's majority voter approval for any increase in special taxes (i.e., non-general fund taxes).

the current proposed changes to prop. 13 - labeled proposition 15 - doesn't touch the 2/3rd's requirement and only attempts to alter the method of property tax assessments for commercial properties (recall prop. 13 also caps property tax increases to 1% annually).

the problems are not NIMBYS - they are un-creative politicians and planners that can't successfully market targeted, popular transportation plans (and their associated funding mechanism) to 2/3rds majorities of voters.

pretending that the rules don't apply to "own the NIMBYS" is silly and leads to zero progress.

It looks like 2/3rds might not be the threshold anymore. TBD


Title: Editorial: California Supreme Court ruling has huge implications for San Diego
By: THE SAN DIEGO UNION-TRIBUNE EDITORIAL BOARD
Published in: The San Diego Union-Tribune
SEP. 10, 2020 4:48 PM

The California Supreme Court this week declined to hear a challenge to a 2018 San Francisco ballot measure — approved with majority but less than two-thirds support — that imposed a new tax on large companies to pay for homelessness programs, in sync with its 2017 decision drawing a distinction between tax-hike ballot measures qualified by public signature-gathering and those placed before voters by elected officials.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/editorials/story/2020-09-10/california-supreme-court-implications-san-diego-hotel-tax-convention-center-homeless-roads

[Will O' Wisp]

It looks like 2/3rds might not be the threshold anymore. TBD

https://memepedia.ru/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/dont-give-me-hope-meme-3-768x409.jpg

[dirt patch]

IS RETAIL DOWNTOWN DEAD?

So, the last remaining tenant of Horton Plaza closed. Jimbos Horton Plaza has only a few days left.

They are in the middle of a construction zone so I guess it shouldn’t be surprising, but there seems to be a really depressing void in downtown lately.

I know some of this is related to COVID-19, but I have to wonder what plans there are (if any) for the future of retail downtown.

There’s literally nothing left. It’s just restaurants and condos. Over the years I know there’s been proposals that have floated about putting a Target or Home Depot or other similar things, but it seems like they’ve all died.

I’m not sure what will be in the ground level of the Horton Plaza redevelopment, they are extremely vague about it.

I think there was supposed to be high end retail at Manchester’s Pacific Gateway and that crashed and burned.

Is there just not enough people living down here for retail? Horton Plaza did good for awhile, so I’m having trouble understand why this is such a huge void downtown.
Yep, retail is severly toast with very few exceptions: several in Gaslamp and Little Italy. Pretty much it. Downtown needs 40,000 more people in the downtown core for retail to pencil out.

[sanatty]

It looks like 2/3rds might not be the threshold anymore. TBD

This is not news, and the reduced majority threshold applies to "tax hike ballot measures qualified by public signature-gathering" NOT those placed on a ballot by a public agency such as SANDAG.

All prior SANDAG measures (check to confirm re most recent measure A, 2016) are drafted by SANDAG and placed on the ballot by SANDAG.

Query whether SANDAG can get around this by having a group of citizens draft the measure - and you run SMACK into the issue encountered by the City of San Diego in having the Mayor (Sanders) coordinate with a "citizens" committee to get Measure B on the ballot in 2012. The level of coordination b/w SANDAG and any citizens group would convert the tax measure into one "placed on the ballot by a public agency".

[sanatty]

https://memepedia.ru/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/dont-give-me-hope-meme-3-768x409.jpg

As said above, this is for "citizens initiatives" like (ref'd in the cited article) the convention center and homeless initiative. Please get back to me on which MPO's have had tax measures passed via citizens initiative in CA...

[mello]

Concerning transit expansion do you guys feel like some of it may hinge on how the ridership does on this new extension to UTC? If its heavily used might it convince some in the county to be cool with kicking in more funds for other lines/projects? However, if the new line is a dud and economy languishes I don't see citizens going for further tax increases.

Construction update, lot at Ash St and Front/Union is cleared with a Swinerton Co fencing all around it. Which project is this?

Streetlights 15th/F still no earth moving equipment just a cleared lot anyone have any updates?

* Also Navy HQ at Manchester development will be done in a couple of weeks, what can we expect next? Demo of the old buildings and construction on the tall hotel portion and office building on the North side of the site? Is he still going forward with that North portion and the big Biotech guy is developing the South side --

[roletand]

Concerning transit expansion do you guys feel like some of it may hinge on how the ridership does on this new extension to UTC? If its heavily used might it convince some in the county to be cool with kicking in more funds for other lines/projects? However, if the new line is a dud and economy languishes I don't see citizens going for further tax increases.

Construction update, lot at Ash St and Front/Union is cleared with a Swinerton Co fencing all around it. Which project is this?

Streetlights 15th/F still no earth moving equipment just a cleared lot anyone have any updates?

* Also Navy HQ at Manchester development will be done in a couple of weeks, what can we expect next? Demo of the old buildings and construction on the tall hotel portion and office building on the North side of the site? Is he still going forward with that North portion and the big Biotech guy is developing the South side --

Construction at Ash & Union is Alexan Little Italy

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/real-estate/sd-fi-little-italy-tower-20181218-story.html

[Steadfast]

Deleted post.

[HurricaneHugo]

Does anybody know what's going up on Ohio St and Monroe?

A block is cleared and steel bars are up

[mello]

Does anybody know what's going up on Ohio St and Monroe?

A block is cleared and steel bars are up

That was a super Old Skool apartment complex. In fact may have been one of the largest early to late 40's complexes in SD. I can't think of another that may have had more units of acreage. I doubt it was from the 30's was probably built to quickly house returning military personnel.

Anyhow they demoed it and its gunna be a dope modern project. Not sure how many units never saw any renders.

Speaking of large projects in that area I really hope the Park Blvd at beginning of EC Blvd project gets going soon. Lot is cleared for almost six months now with construction fencing and nada :shrug:

[Streamliner]

That was a super Old Skool apartment complex. In fact may have been one of the largest early to late 40's complexes in SD. I can't think of another that may have had more units of acreage. I doubt it was from the 30's was probably built to quickly house returning military personnel.

Anyhow they demoed it and its gunna be a dope modern project. Not sure how many units never saw any renders.

Speaking of large projects in that area I really hope the Park Blvd at beginning of EC Blvd project gets going soon. Lot is cleared for almost six months now with construction fencing and nada :shrug:

Is this it? Couldn't find much, but it seems to match:

https://www.suffolk.com/projects/4469-ohio-street

150 units, 5 stories

[Streamliner]

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/story/2020-09-23/in-bid-for-tailgate-park-padres-beat-brookfield-with-1-4b-office-focused-proposal

Brookfield loses out on the Tailgate Park site.

[HurricaneHugo]

The strip mall next to UTC is getting a makeover:

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/story/2020-09-24/major-overhaul-slated-for-strip-mall-next-to-utc-new-trolley-line