SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[eburress]

There already weren't many places to work in San Diego and now another one bites the dust. Can't say I blame them either.

"California is minus one more company"

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2014/07/04/active-network-to-move-from-california-to-downtown.html?page=all

[tyleraf]

Yea, I saw that last week. I'm so sick of Texas stealing all of our jobs.

[eburress]

What's bad is that these companies are choosing to leave. The problem is everything the state of California is doing to make doing business here so difficult.

[tdavis]

Yea, I saw that last week. I'm so sick of Texas stealing all of our jobs.

Texas isn't "stealing" jobs. California has made it difficult to do business here.

I'm a mid-level manager at my firm, and our executive team notified us about a month ago that we were shutting down our San Diego headquarters and moving everything to Dallas.

We were given the option of moving or taking a severance package. Given that my spouse can't move because of her job I'm forced to leave a company I've worked at for 9 years.

Has anyone been to Dallas lately? It's a beautiful city, very clean, amazing arts/cultural district, world class airports, rail and other amenities which puts CA to shame. I had a preconceived notion that Dallas was all hickish, but it's very cosmopolitan, more so than San Diego. And just think, they don't have a state income tax, yet seem to have money for everything which indicates to me they clearly have the leadership and foresight to get things done.

[eburress]

Texas isn't "stealing" jobs. California has made it difficult to do business here.

I'm a mid-level manager at my firm, and our executive team notified us about a month ago that we were shutting down our San Diego headquarters and moving everything to Dallas.

We were given the option of moving or taking a severance package. Given that my spouse can't move because of her job I'm forced to leave a company I've worked at for 9 years.

Has anyone been to Dallas lately? It's a beautiful city, very clean, amazing arts/cultural district, world class airports, rail and other amenities which puts CA to shame. I had a preconceived notion that Dallas was all hickish, but it's very cosmopolitan, more so than San Diego. And just think, they don't have a state income tax, yet seem to have money for everything which indicates to me they clearly have the leadership and foresight to get things done.

It's funny you say that. Watch: http://vimeo.com/73523141

I just came back from Dallas and aside from the heat, it really is a great city. There's so much happening...so much momentum, there and in Houston and Austin too.

California needs to take notice of what Texas is doing because it's no accident that so many companies are leaving here for there.

[Leo the Dog]

Yea, I saw that last week. I'm so sick of Texas stealing all of our jobs.

Business is like water. It will take the path of least resistance.

You can't blame Texas for having a better environment for business (and employees). You can however blame the whack jobs in Sacramento and local politicians driving business out.

[tyleraf]

I'm sorry stealing was a poor word choice. I'm just frustrated with the apathy in Sacramento as we lose countless jobs to Texas. I don't blame Texas, they just know that they can get high paying jobs and have exploited it. I just wish that the idiots in Sacramento would stop worrying about building trains to nowhere and make California business friendly again.

[tyleraf]

San Diego has made the short list for America's Cup. http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jul/08/san-diego-americas-cup-list-hp/

[SDfan]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that a lot of this "leaving for Texas" stuff is hype. HYPE. The company that bought the three local techies had every intention of moving them to Texas when they signed the deal. They were going to leave regardless if California put up a fight for them or not.

I don't mean to be say California is the most business friendly state, but there are many reasons why people live, work, and vacation here. Texas is cheaper and has less regulatory burden, but it's also politically backwards, socially conservative, disregards its environment, and provides very little for its rapidly growing low wage workers and low income families. They can "poach" all the "high-wage" jobs they want, but their state isn't attractive to socially, morally, environmentally, and ethically conscious people. I hate CEQA, but I also hate pollution more. I dislike regulations against thoughtful development, but I dislike sprawling McMansions more. And I prefer living in an inclusive and progressive state, not one that promotes reparative therapy for LGBT youth, is blatantly racists against a growing Hispanic population, is against women's health, denies climate change and basic science, and sees guns as the solution to end all.

Texas is cool for Texans and companies who want to compromise their integrity for the almighty dollar. Also, good luck finding a large and well-educated workforce out there. I don't hear many people clamoring to move to Texas when they can get the same or better wages and benefits in SF, LA or SD. Those same "high-wage" earners, I bet, would rather stay put than move to that rodeo, no matter how "hip" Austin may be.

Dallas may be pretty. Houston may be growing. But there are serious problems with their economic and social inequalities that they will have to address sooner rather than later.

In just, I don't buy it and I won't shed a tear for anyone leaving the largest economy in union. For every company "lost," I can guarantee you three or more startups spring up. So take them. We have plenty.

[SDCAL]

I agree with a lot of what SDFan has written.

There needs to be balance, and while some may criticize California as being too "anti-business" there are also problems going overboard in the opposite direction. I would NEVER move to Texas because it compromises itself - and in-turn the health and welfare of its citizens - by putting business above all else including the environment, regulation, and public health.

Now reading about the specifics of this particular company, I think our inadequate airport played a role. THAT needs to be addressed, it's a huge minus for any company doing international business looking to move here or which is here now.

By the way, saw this article today:

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2014/jul/08/california-ranks-worlds-8th-largest-economy-overta/

California overtakes Russia and Italy as 8th largest economy in the world.

We seem to be doing OK as an economic hub. I just don't buy the sky is falling argument coming from corporations who want zero regulation nor do I buy the argument that Texas's "business above everything else" model is right when it comes to quality of life or even economics.

[dtell04]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that a lot of this "leaving for Texas" stuff is hype. HYPE. The company that bought the three local techies had every intention of moving them to Texas when they signed the deal. They were going to leave regardless if California put up a fight for them or not.

I don't mean to be say California is the most business friendly state, but there are many reasons why people live, work, and vacation here. Texas is cheaper and has less regulatory burden, but it's also politically backwards, socially conservative, disregards its environment, and provides very little for its rapidly growing low wage workers and low income families. They can "poach" all the "high-wage" jobs they want, but their state isn't attractive to socially, morally, environmentally, and ethically conscious people. I hate CEQA, but I also hate pollution more. I dislike regulations against thoughtful development, but I dislike sprawling McMansions more. And I prefer living in an inclusive and progressive state, not one that promotes reparative therapy for LGBT youth, is blatantly racists against a growing Hispanic population, is against women's health, denies climate change and basic science, and sees guns as the solution to end all.

Texas is cool for Texans and companies who want to compromise their integrity for the almighty dollar. Also, good luck finding a large and well-educated workforce out there. I don't hear many people clamoring to move to Texas when they can get the same or better wages and benefits in SF, LA or SD. Those same "high-wage" earners, I bet, would rather stay put than move to that rodeo, no matter how "hip" Austin may be.

Dallas may be pretty. Houston may be growing. But there are serious problems with their economic and social inequalities that they will have to address sooner rather than later.


In just, I don't buy it and I won't shed a tear for anyone leaving the largest economy in union. For every company "lost," I can guarantee you three or more startups spring up. So take them. We have plenty.

Hi guys,
I've been following the thread for a while now but never posted. I like the debate going on. I know we are all entitled to our own opinion but you don't have it right about all Texans. I have a couple of good friends that own and manage a shipping business in Houston. They certainly didn't sacrifice their integrity when they agreed to take a pay cut so they could continue to pay the people that worked for them at the same wage because they all had families to support. I know a teacher and construction engineer that are definitely educated. I also know another lady that just graduated with her MBA a couple months ago. Please don't generalize like that and it might be time to cut back on the MSNBC.

[eburress]

Hi guys,
I've been following the thread for a while now but never posted. I like the debate going on. I know we are all entitled to our own opinion but you don't have it right about all Texans. I have a couple of good friends that own and manage a shipping business in Houston. They certainly didn't sacrifice their integrity when they agreed to take a pay cut so they could continue to pay the people that worked for them at the same wage because they all had families to support. I know a teacher and construction engineer that are definitely educated. I also know another lady that just graduated with her MBA a couple months ago. Please don't generalize like that and it might be time to cut back on the MSNBC.

Great points. SDfan has some good/solid points, but many of the points are dramatic over-generalizations or just plain inaccurate. At the end of the day, companies are still leaving California...that's quantifiable and objectively accurate...and it's something CA needs to address.

San Diego in particular has some soul searching to do, because as it is I can't imagine how people are going to be able to keep buying these ridiculously expensive homes, how they're going to keep this bubble from popping, when there isn't anywhere to work.

[SDCAL]

Great points. SDfan has some good/solid points, but many of the points are dramatic over-generalizations or just plain inaccurate. At the end of the day, companies are still leaving California...that's quantifiable and objectively accurate...and it's something CA needs to address.

San Diego in particular has some soul searching to do, because as it is I can't imagine how people are going to be able to keep buying these ridiculously expensive homes, how they're going to keep this bubble from popping, when there isn't anywhere to work.

What I'm interested in is a reliable, objective statistical analysis or some reliable data that shows California as a whole is becoming less economically viable as an economic engine due to what some feel are too many regulations or taxes on businesses.

I just posted something above where we are the 8th largest economy in the world. Where does Texas rank?

Anecdotal stories about different companies that decide to leave are not sufficient proof that our government somehow makes us less economically viable as a whole than another state governments with fewer regulations or less taxes.

It may be true when you look at certain sectors, but again I say we have to look at this as a whole.

For example, Both SD and SF are huge biotech hubs - we have the education/universities that specialize in this, we have the talent pool, and I read about expansions in this sector locally all the time. I never hear about a biotech company leaving CA to go to Texas.

Texas is an oil and energy hub, we won't see many of those migrating our way.

So I think it's a give and take scenario, and one that varies with different industries.

[SDfan]

Hi guys,
I've been following the thread for a while now but never posted. I like the debate going on. I know we are all entitled to our own opinion but you don't have it right about all Texans. I have a couple of good friends that own and manage a shipping business in Houston. They certainly didn't sacrifice their integrity when they agreed to take a pay cut so they could continue to pay the people that worked for them at the same wage because they all had families to support. I know a teacher and construction engineer that are definitely educated. I also know another lady that just graduated with her MBA a couple months ago. Please don't generalize like that and it might be time to cut back on the MSNBC.

I don't have cable, so MSNBC is off of my radar, but thank you for assuming I only rely upon kool-aide news outlets. ;)

I have no doubt that most Texans are nice, and welcoming. And I'm sure they enjoy their lives in their special state. But there is a difference between their state's ideology on critical social and economic issues compared to that of most Californians, and the nation. That's not a problem if you don't care about those issues. But, as conscious citizen, I do.

So if an individual wants to move their business to Texas to save their employees from the burdensome nanny state that California has become, that's well and good. I'm not sure how relocating and upending whole families, taking a pay cut, and moving to a increasingly radicalized tax haven is doing right, but hey, to each their own?

I guess this comes down to more than dollars for me, personally. Texas works for Texas, and for the people and companies who are willing to compromise for it. Just as we all compromise with California on the other end of it all. I just don't see the end of California because we aren't Texas.

We shouldn't be fretting over this issue, nor should we be comparing ourselves to a state reliant on oil money (unsustainable), supply-side tax philosophy (proven failed fiscal policy), low-wage growth (income inequality), social conservatism (against history), and paying companies to marquee their names on skyscrapers in their cities (*yawn* non-issue).

And if it seems to anyone that I'm be a little "dramatic" it's because I'm either A) not agreeing with your sky is falling mentality (who's being over dramatic again?) or B) you don't understand that these are real issues to consider outside of "blah blah California sucks, we lost [insert name of company], because Sacramento and stealing jobs and Dallas is pretty and ..."

Also, welcome to the forum :cheers:

[SDfan]

Great points. SDfan has some good/solid points, but many of the points are dramatic over-generalizations or just plain inaccurate. At the end of the day, companies are still leaving California...that's quantifiable and objectively accurate...and it's something CA needs to address.

San Diego in particular has some soul searching to do, because as it is I can't imagine how people are going to be able to keep buying these ridiculously expensive homes, how they're going to keep this bubble from popping, when there isn't anywhere to work.

Wow, you really are playing the kettle to my pot aren't you?

"...I can't imagine how people are going to be able to keep buying these ridiculously expensive homes, how they're going to keep this bubble from popping, when there isn't anywhere to work.

I mean... ?

Anyways, San Diego has some serious housing issues, but if you look at some of the most successful cities around the world, there are a hell of a lot more expensive and unaffordable places out there than this little hamlet. Hong Kong. New York. San Francisco. You really think San Diego is going to lose population, jobs, and have a lower quality of life when compared to cities like those, our housing market is a steal? Haha, okay!

But that's when Texas is supposed to come in and ruin us, right? As far as I can tell they may have taken the US headquarters of Toyota, but they don't have Apple, Google, Qualcomm, or are remotely close to replicating Silicon Valley, SD's biotech cluster, the institutions of higher learning and research, or the desirable cities and lifestyles to attract, build and keep the workforce needed to create a 21st century economy.

Why do you think these states are so desperate to take what we have? Because they can't build it on their own. They wouldn't pay for the education, the programs, the policies - so they go in and beg for others to set up shop by bribing them with millions of taxpayer dollars (paaaaraaaadooox).

So crunch the numbers, please. Pull out the crystal ball and let me know when I can expect California to become the badlands it's destined to be. As far as I'm concerned it all seems a little... dramatic.

:cheers:

[tyleraf]

Jonathan Segal is starting a new project in Hillcrest! http://www.sandiegostreets.com/2014/07/09/egyptian-garage-demolished-for-new-development/

[spoonman]

New hotel downtown in Cortez Hill - 18 floors

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jul/09/hotel-planned-in-downtown/

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jul/09/hotel-planned-in-downtown/#lb-photo1379950

[Derek]

"Planned more than 6 years ago"


I thought it looked familiar.

[tyleraf]

I'm glad to hear that 719 ash will finally rise. It's a nice design and it will fit in well on Cortez Hill.

[LosAngelesDreamin]

And California still has Los Angeles.. the world's capitol for entertainment... i highly doubt that will go away.

[Leo the Dog]

I find it troubling that Californians just brush off the news that business is leaving for other states (not just Texas). In the LA forum, when news broke that Toyota was leaving along with its 4000 jobs in Torrance for Dallas, the response was, who cares, we don't need them, they were low wage workers....

That's ridiculous!

Now it's the argument, we have the 8th largest economy in the world, or we will always have Hollywood, or Silicon Valley etc etc etc...therefore it's ok if we lose precious jobs?!

The truth is, our competition is out competing us. They are luring business away, which will create a better economic situation for them in their future. San Diego should not be losing any jobs or business and that's what the story should be. Hell, even NY has offered 10 year tax free zones for business that relocate to the state.

SSP is strangely quiet about NY "stealing" business from other states.

[eburress]

Wow, you really are playing the kettle to my pot aren't you?

"...I can't imagine how people are going to be able to keep buying these ridiculously expensive homes, how they're going to keep this bubble from popping, when there isn't anywhere to work.

I mean... ?

Anyways, San Diego has some serious housing issues, but if you look at some of the most successful cities around the world, there are a hell of a lot more expensive and unaffordable places out there than this little hamlet. Hong Kong. New York. San Francisco. You really think San Diego is going to lose population, jobs, and have a lower quality of life when compared to cities like those, our housing market is a steal? Haha, okay!

But that's when Texas is supposed to come in and ruin us, right? As far as I can tell they may have taken the US headquarters of Toyota, but they don't have Apple, Google, Qualcomm, or are remotely close to replicating Silicon Valley, SD's biotech cluster, the institutions of higher learning and research, or the desirable cities and lifestyles to attract, build and keep the workforce needed to create a 21st century economy.

Why do you think these states are so desperate to take what we have? Because they can't build it on their own. They wouldn't pay for the education, the programs, the policies - so they go in and beg for others to set up shop by bribing them with millions of taxpayer dollars (paaaaraaaadooox).

So crunch the numbers, please. Pull out the crystal ball and let me know when I can expect California to become the badlands it's destined to be. As far as I'm concerned it all seems a little... dramatic.

:cheers:

For sure, it's expensive to live in NYC, San Francisco, London, Auckland, etc too, but one must wonder whether San Diego's economy is such that it can support those prices.

How about for now, we just agree to disagree? I think it would be a fantastic exercise to look into the numbers and do the necessary research to inform one's opinion either way, but I frankly have to work and don't have time. I think CA in general and San Diego specifically has problems they need to address, and these companies leaving is a symptom of those problems. You are less concerned and that's fine.

[spoonman]

I find it troubling that Californians just brush off the news that business is leaving for other states (not just Texas). In the LA forum, when news broke that Toyota was leaving along with its 4000 jobs in Torrance for Dallas, the response was, who cares, we don't need them, they were low wage workers....

That's ridiculous!

Now it's the argument, we have the 8th largest economy in the world, or we will always have Hollywood, or Silicon Valley etc etc etc...therefore it's ok if we lose precious jobs?!

The truth is, our competition is out competing us. They are luring business away, which will create a better economic situation for them in their future. San Diego should not be losing any jobs or business and that's what the story should be. Hell, even NY has offered 10 year tax free zones for business that relocate to the state.

SSP is strangely quiet about NY "stealing" business from other states.

I agree. I hear some valid points that the sky is not falling, but at the same time I also sense that there is a lot of denial about what is going on. Hopefully we can move to anger and acceptance before too much damage is done.

There was an article in the UT (there have been several really) about leveraging the SD/TJ relationship for device medical device manufacturing. Great cities develop because they have some strategic value. Our geographic positioning could be a positive for once instead of a negative. We need to capitalize on this as a city/region.

[SDCAL]

Jonathan Segal is starting a new project in Hillcrest! http://www.sandiegostreets.com/2014/07/09/egyptian-garage-demolished-for-new-development/

Can't wait to see what they come up for the design on this one - if they will keep with the Egyptian revival theme.

I hope they keep that small Egyptian-style courtyard complex (I think it is next to the eyesore former auto body shop) that's really a historical gem and a surviving example of SD's original Egyptian revival architecture.

Park Blvd in Hillcrest really has a ton of potential in my opinion.

It would be so awesome to one day have the IDEA district in EV, and a trolley line linking it with balboa park and the University/Park area in Hillcrest/N Park.

[SDCAL]

I find it troubling that Californians just brush off the news that business is leaving for other states (not just Texas). In the LA forum, when news broke that Toyota was leaving along with its 4000 jobs in Torrance for Dallas, the response was, who cares, we don't need them, they were low wage workers....

That's ridiculous!

Now it's the argument, we have the 8th largest economy in the world, or we will always have Hollywood, or Silicon Valley etc etc etc...therefore it's ok if we lose precious jobs?!

The truth is, our competition is out competing us. They are luring business away, which will create a better economic situation for them in their future. San Diego should not be losing any jobs or business and that's what the story should be. Hell, even NY has offered 10 year tax free zones for business that relocate to the state.

SSP is strangely quiet about NY "stealing" business from other states.

The point about the 8th largest economy in world was not that we are there, it's that we are growing and just surpassed Italy and Russia.

In other words, despite some companies leaving, our economy as a whole is growing.

I don't think people should "brush off" any companies leaving - it should always be evaluated to see the root causes. But, on the flip-side, I see a lot of people and media outlets over-reacting to companies that decide to leave and using those stories to play politics - mainly politics trying to lower taxes and erode environmental and other regulations - which I am NOT in favor of.

I am in favor of not just private development, but also public development - spending on civic and infrastructure needs.

A lot of the same people who complain about these companies leaving are the same NIMBYs that are complaining about HSR and who think CA should kill it because it's too large of a tax burden.

[SDCAL]

I agree. I hear some valid points that the sky is not falling, but at the same time I also sense that there is a lot of denial about what is going on. Hopefully we can move to anger and acceptance before too much damage is done.

There was an article in the UT (there have been several really) about leveraging the SD/TJ relationship for device medical device manufacturing. Great cities develop because they have some strategic value. Our geographic positioning could be a positive for once instead of a negative. We need to capitalize on this as a city/region.

Your last statement - is soooo true. We extremely under-utilize out unique geographic location.

[tyleraf]

I know it is so unfortunate to see such bad marketing of a great region. We have 6.5 million people in our international metropolitan area. We need to take better advantage of our amazing location.

[mello]

Excited to see what Segal comes up with and that empty lot across from DMV on Normal street looks like it is primed for infill to go in there. Still waiting on the lot on Park Blvd one block South of Sprouts that has a fence around it again, when will that finally get rolling???

I noticed some nice newish and small infill going on in North West Hillcrest/Mission Hills while driving the side streets off of Washington St (North Side) they are 4 floors and prob 10 to 12 units each with sleek architecture. We need tons more of those :cheers:

Spoonman: Could you provide links to those UT San Diego articles you mentioned. Thanks

[SDfan]

Jonathan Segal is starting a new project in Hillcrest! http://www.sandiegostreets.com/2014/07/09/egyptian-garage-demolished-for-new-development/

I hope his project is bigger than the one on Upas. I mean, his North Park project is great, I just wish it was a bit more dense.

But I guess at this point, I'll take anything infill-wise. haha.

[Crackertastik]

I agree. I hear some valid points that the sky is not falling, but at the same time I also sense that there is a lot of denial about what is going on. Hopefully we can move to anger and acceptance before too much damage is done.

There was an article in the UT (there have been several really) about leveraging the SD/TJ relationship for device medical device manufacturing. Great cities develop because they have some strategic value. Our geographic positioning could be a positive for once instead of a negative. We need to capitalize on this as a city/region.

To add, more and more research suggests the company poaching done with tax incentives may do more harm than good. The worry about California may be temporary.

http://www.planetizen.com/node/70213

[spoonman]

Excited to see what Segal comes up with and that empty lot across from DMV on Normal street looks like it is primed for infill to go in there. Still waiting on the lot on Park Blvd one block South of Sprouts that has a fence around it again, when will that finally get rolling???

I noticed some nice newish and small infill going on in North West Hillcrest/Mission Hills while driving the side streets off of Washington St (North Side) they are 4 floors and prob 10 to 12 units each with sleek architecture. We need tons more of those :cheers:

Spoonman: Could you provide links to those UT San Diego articles you mentioned. Thanks

Here's the article, Mello...

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/Jul/09/san-diego-baja-startup-ecosystem/2/?#article-copy

[EastVillageSD]

Looks like we are getting a few Texas-based companies in San Diego soon... So there is that?

http://sandiego.eater.com/archives/2014/07/10/pizza-beer-coffee-cocktails-all-under-one-roof.php

[spoonman]

Looks like we are getting a few Texas-based companies in San Diego soon... So there is that?

http://sandiego.eater.com/archives/2014/07/10/pizza-beer-coffee-cocktails-all-under-one-roof.php

Thanks, EastVillageSD. Looks like this will be at the base of the 14/15th & Island tower project which includes a park. Sounds as though the eateries along with the park will be very popular with locals in the area.

Here is a rendering of the area when complete...

http://www.ibigroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/ibi-15th-street-and-island-ca-011.jpg

http://www.ibigroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/ibi-15th-street-and-island-ca-021.jpg

[eburress]

Looks like we are getting a few Texas-based companies in San Diego soon... So there is that?

http://sandiego.eater.com/archives/2014/07/10/pizza-beer-coffee-cocktails-all-under-one-roof.php

Almost as good as a corporate headquarters relocation and 4000 new jobs! haha

[Prahaboheme]

I hope his project is bigger than the one on Upas. I mean, his North Park project is great, I just wish it was a bit more dense.

But I guess at this point, I'll take anything infill-wise. haha.

Don't expect anything super dense out of a Siegel project. His developments intentionally avoid layers of city and civic review because they come in below density standards. This is also why they are so well executed -- the NIMBYs cannot get their hands / voice on the design and cheapen it.

Double edged sword perhaps but I'll take it because what he is doing is REAL city building.

[S.DviaPhilly]

Thanks, EastVillageSD. Looks like this will be at the base of the 14/15th & Island tower project which includes a park. Sounds as though the eateries along with the park will be very popular with locals in the area.

Here is a rendering of the area when complete...

http://www.ibigroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/ibi-15th-street-and-island-ca-011.jpg

http://www.ibigroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/ibi-15th-street-and-island-ca-021.jpg

This eatery/bar/lounge is going into an already existing one story structure on the northwest corner of that block that has been empty for as long as I can remember (I know shocking.) You can see it in your second pic in the shadows of the red ketchup building. It is very exciting what is going on in that part of East Village food-wise!

[nezbn22]

Another update, another delay:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jul/09/harbor-island-hotel-delayed-coastal-commission/

[tyleraf]

Another update, another delay

Typical!
Also, I'm glad to hear about the 15th and Island restaurant. I had walked by a couple weeks ago and seen stuff for the restaurant inside but I couldn't make out much.

[Leo the Dog]

Another update, another delay:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jul/09/harbor-island-hotel-delayed-coastal-commission/

I've always thought that Harbor Island, being such awesome real estate, should have super dense development. C Level has a huge parking lot, overlooking downtown. I would love to see it develop soon.

[mello]

When are coastal mayors going to band together to seriously try to do something about the Coastal commission? How many tens of thousands of jobs have been lost and economic impact gone by the way side because of them? I mean hotels on Harbor Island are a no brainer I read the article and it sounded like the reason for the delay is because their aren't enough "lower priced hotel rooms"....

Maybe I missed something but come on. Do people not go to Florida because their beaches are walled off by highrises and that there are tall structures everywhere... No they continue to flock to Florida. How many jobs are created by all that construction in Miami, Sunny Isles, Fort Lauderdale.... I mean elevator maintenance and installation guys make big bucks.

Oh and when are the hotels across from Liberty Station going to start construction.

[SDfan]

Another update, another delay:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jul/09/harbor-island-hotel-delayed-coastal-commission/

Ugggghhhhhh

[Leo the Dog]

When are coastal mayors going to band together to seriously try to do something about the Coastal commission? How many tens of thousands of jobs have been lost and economic impact gone by the way side because of them? I mean hotels on Harbor Island are a no brainer I read the article and it sounded like the reason for the delay is because their aren't enough "lower priced hotel rooms"....

Maybe I missed something but come on. Do people not go to Florida because their beaches are walled off by highrises and that there are tall structures everywhere... No they continue to flock to Florida. How many jobs are created by all that construction in Miami, Sunny Isles, Fort Lauderdale.... I mean elevator maintenance and installation guys make big bucks.

Oh and when are the hotels across from Liberty Station going to start construction.

Because the Coastal Commission has such a strangle hold on development, I've always wondered why cities like El Cajon/La Mesa and inland SD neighborhoods don't take advantage of this and allow for big time development.

Seems like they could easily attract developers to build big.

[SDfan]

Because the Coastal Commission has such a strangle hold on development, I've always wondered why cities like El Cajon/La Mesa and inland SD neighborhoods don't take advantage of this and allow for big time development.

Seems like they could easily attract developers to build big.

These areas are subject to the same NIMBY mindsets that exist along the coast. Also, they don't have coasts, so they are less desirable from the get-go.

La Mesa is trying, kind of, to grow more dense. But it's taking time. Lemon Grove is headed in the right direction, they just have difficulty finding developers willing to invest in their small inland community. El Cajon is... well, El Cajon.

San Marcos has North City and plans for a new "downtown." So, that should be something at the very least.

[EastVillageSD]

This eatery/bar/lounge is going into an already existing one story structure on the northwest corner of that block that has been empty for as long as I can remember (I know shocking.) You can see it in your second pic in the shadows of the red ketchup building. It is very exciting what is going on in that part of East Village food-wise!
That makes me even more excited for the development. Lots more spaces for cool businesses open up in.

Does anyone have any knowledge of what is going on with that Form15 building?

[tyleraf]

Good news. Hopefully we see some new office development soon. I'd especially like to see 880 W Broadway get going. http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jul/14/office-outlook-jll-2nd-quarter/

[tyleraf]

Info on the cross border airport. http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jul/14/cross-border-bridge-airport-tijuana-san-diego/

[Leo the Dog]

San Diego minimum wage going up to $11.50/hour.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/Jul/14/san-diego-minimum-wage-/2/?#article-copy

[JPAztec]

Since I've temporarily relocated to mammoth lakes, I'm wondering if anybody happens to have any updated construction photos of things going on Downtown? Mainly 15th and island, 9th and Broadway, and any of the embarcadero stuff. I watched 15th and island rise everyday from my place, but moved north when it hit floor 17 or so, it's gotta be getting up there by now.

Thanks in advance!

[tyleraf]

I'll try to get downtown soon to take some pics.

[Jdawgboy]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that a lot of this "leaving for Texas" stuff is hype. HYPE. The company that bought the three local techies had every intention of moving them to Texas when they signed the deal. They were going to leave regardless if California put up a fight for them or not.

I don't mean to be say California is the most business friendly state, but there are many reasons why people live, work, and vacation here. Texas is cheaper and has less regulatory burden, but it's also politically backwards, socially conservative, disregards its environment, and provides very little for its rapidly growing low wage workers and low income families. They can "poach" all the "high-wage" jobs they want, but their state isn't attractive to socially, morally, environmentally, and ethically conscious people. I hate CEQA, but I also hate pollution more. I dislike regulations against thoughtful development, but I dislike sprawling McMansions more. And I prefer living in an inclusive and progressive state, not one that promotes reparative therapy for LGBT youth, is blatantly racists against a growing Hispanic population, is against women's health, denies climate change and basic science, and sees guns as the solution to end all.

Texas is cool for Texans and companies who want to compromise their integrity for the almighty dollar. Also, good luck finding a large and well-educated workforce out there. I don't hear many people clamoring to move to Texas when they can get the same or better wages and benefits in SF, LA or SD. Those same "high-wage" earners, I bet, would rather stay put than move to that rodeo, no matter how "hip" Austin may be.



You don't know Austin then. Austin is home to a highly skilled population. It's also too late about people clamoring to move here because the majority of the transplants in Austin are from California. It is also a very beautiful city and is more connected to the natural landscape around it than any other Texas city. Our state government may be backwards, but it's capital city is the most liberal in the state.

[spoonman]

Loving all the new people joining the forum lately.

As JPAztec said, it would be great to get more connstruction photos on here with some regularity.

[tyleraf]

Yea, I'm moving to Chicago next month and I would love to see updates regularly. I will try to get downtown today or tomorrow though to take pictures.

[spoonman]

^ Why the move?

[tyleraf]

College.

[tyleraf]

Hooray! Finally some good news about Horton Plaza Park. http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jul/15/horton-plaza-expansion-budget-increase/

[spoonman]

The San Diego Streets blog posted some great updates and photos of 15th & Island.

Here is the link along with some shots. Kudos to them for the great work.

http://www.sandiegostreets.com/2014/07/15/pinnacle-rises-near-east-village-pocket-park/#

http://www.sandiegostreets.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/20140710_east_village_010.jpg


Just over half of the floors have been built...

http://www.sandiegostreets.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/20140710_east_village_002.jpg

[JPAztec]

Wow, it's going to be a tall bitch! Thanks a bunch for posting that link, I'll be keeping an eye on it.

[Streamliner]

Info on the cross border airport. http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jul/14/cross-border-bridge-airport-tijuana-san-diego/

http://media.utsandiego.com/img/photos/2014/07/14/thebridge_t730.JPG?b0f0cf804b45a2830ba759010b8a41b9b1684c1a

Good news! I can't wait for this project to open. But I wish the architecture was a bit better. This should look more like a modern, international gateway and less like Abelardo Rodriguez Elementary.

[navyweaxguy]

Westfield needs to use some of it's own money and fix up Horton Plaza. It was a dump when I walked through it last. That was about a year ago.

[Streamliner]

I was downtown yesterday for the Esri Conference and took a few pics on my phone's camera. It was a pretty dreary day. Forgot to take pics of Pinnacle towers and Celadon, but both are looking good.

Embarcadero: I hadn't been to this area in awhile. I was surpised at how little of the area was open to the public.

Closed/under construction:
http://i.imgur.com/x7edfF9.jpg

Open to the public:
http://i.imgur.com/Uhxahs9.jpg

Open to the public:
http://i.imgur.com/X4wFIqI.jpg

Closed/under construction
http://i.imgur.com/ul84Hjl.jpg

Part of the Pete White art installation/bathroom:
http://i.imgur.com/2u9uX31.jpg

Streetlights awaiting installation:
http://i.imgur.com/LU5DoPW.jpg

Lane Field: Looking over the fence:
http://i.imgur.com/wgrCf7S.jpg

Pile of dirt:
http://i.imgur.com/I2xuR1M.jpg

Bad picture of the County Administration parking garage adjacent to the Little Italy Trolley stop. Signage showed that the Star Building will not be demolished, which I didn't realize:
http://i.imgur.com/xbBdFpu.jpg

County Courthouse:
http://i.imgur.com/yV5OUX1.jpg

County Administration Center Park: a shot of the gardens/skyline:
http://i.imgur.com/9cw7fls.jpg?1

And the fountains:
http://i.imgur.com/WLICZRz.jpg?1

[Bertrice]

"Part of the Pete White art installation/bathroom"

actually its a restroom for most. it will be a bathroom for all the trolls down there.

btw Quartyard by radlab hasn't started. They were held by the city (surprise surprise)

[spoonman]

San Diego International is the world's first airport to get LEED Platinum certification.


Airport Is 1st in World to Get LEED Platinum Certification
Posted by Chris Jennewein on April 9, 2014 in Politics in Times of San Diego| 400 Views |


San Diego International Airport was awarded LEED Platinum — the highest energy and environmental certification possible — for its recent terminal expansion

The U.S. Green Building Council‘s Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design certification is considered the industry standard in defining and measuring green, sustainable construction.


http://timesofsandiego.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/9302958698_ea8f3c76e4_b.jpg
Photo courtesy of San Diego County Regional Airport Authority

The San Diego airport is the first LEED Platinum-certified commercial airport terminal in the world. The certification covers the terminal portion of The Green Build, including the 460,000 square-foot expansion of Terminal 2 West and 1.3 million square feet of new aircraft apron and taxiway areas. The design/build contractor for the project was Turner/PCL/Flatiron.

“We are excited to have the first commercial airport terminal in the world to achieve LEED Platinum certification!” said Thella F. Bowens, president and CEO of the Airport Authority. “A minimum of LEED Silver certification is the standard for all new construction projects at the airport, but platinum for a project of this significance exemplifies this organization’s deep commitment to sustainable building practices.”

“San Diego International Airport’s LEED certification demonstrates tremendous green building leadership,” said Rick Fedrizzi, president, CEO and founding chair of the Green Building Council.

Sustainable elements of the terminal and airside improvements include solar panels, low-flow water fixtures, drought-tolerant landscaping, energy-efficient or natural lighting, reflective roofs, special power for aircraft, special storm drainage and the use of low-volatile adhesives, sealants paints and coatings.

“From the outset, The Green Build was designed with an eye toward the environment,” said Dan McGuckin, operations manager for Turner Construction Co. “Not only were we able to reduce our environmental footprint during the construction process, but we’ve constructed a new terminal that will be 32 percent more energy efficient than the standard code.”

The $907 million Green Build project was completed on time and approximately $45 million under budget.

— From an airport press release

[spoonman]

New Restaurants, Grocer Coming to Little Italy Apartment TowerBy Lou Hirsh Wednesday, July 2, 2014


Two new restaurants and a natural foods grocer have been signed to occupy the ground floor of Ariel Suites, a recently completed 22-story luxury apartment tower at Beech Street and Kettner Boulevard in Little Italy. Openings are expected in early 2015.

Mexiterranen Hospitality LLC has signed a 10-year lease to occupy a two-floor space totaling 4,650 square feet, according to Michael Spilky of brokerage company Location Matters, which represented the tenant and landlord, Ariel Suites LP.

Mexiterranean’s yet-to-be-named restaurant will include “Baja Mediterranean” style cuisine from Chef Javier Plascencia, who also operates Romesco Mexiterranean Bistro in Bonita and two other restaurants in Mexico.

Also opening at the tower will be Pan Bon, a bi-level restaurant that will include an Italian bakery café on the ground level and a fine-dining restaurant on the second floor. It is the first U.S. restaurant for Pan Bon, which plans to use a portion of its 6,500 square feet for a bakery commissary for its wholesale operations.

Hanson Market, a gourmet and organic natural foods grocer, will occupy approximately 8,500 square feet at the tower in downtown San Diego

[spoonman]

New parking structure to be built at T2.

Also worth noting that the SDAA is reviewing plans to redevelop T1. I will post something if I can find it.

San Diego Airport $80M Parking Plaza Project Back in Motion

Plans for a previously deferred parking plaza structure adjacent to Terminal 2 moves forward

San Diego International Airport is moving ahead with planning for a previously deferred parking plaza structure adjacent to Terminal 2.

The board of the San Diego County Regional Airport Authority recently voted to direct staff to proceed with the project, which was originally approved in 2008 but deferred while other parts of the airport master plan, including the Terminal 2 Green Build, were completed.

Officials said the project’s cost is estimated $80 million to $88 million. While the original project was envisioned as a five-story structure with 5,000 parking spaces, the current project calls for three stories and 3,000 spaces.

The $900 million Green Build, completed last August, added 10 gates to Terminal 2 but did not include new parking spaces.

Officials said the plaza will enhance customer service, especially for business travelers who require convenient parking close to the terminal.

“Our need for more close-in parking is clear,” Airport Authority President and CEO Thella Bowens said in a statement. “Our single lowest customer satisfaction rating is for availability of parking.”

The plaza will have a public art component and “smart” parking technology that will enable parkers to reserve spaces and pay before leaving, reducing circulating and vehicle idling times.

Airport staff will next be preparing project designs and related documents, and obtaining a California coastal development permit. That will be followed by project construction bidding and awards, with completion of the plaza expected in roughly three years.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/San-Diego-Airport-Lindbergh-Field-Parking-Ignite-266235501.html"]http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/San-Diego-Airport-Lindbergh-Field-Parking-Ignite-266235501.html

http://media.nbcsandiego.com/images/654*368/San-Diego-International-Air.jpg

[spoonman]

Plan for redevelopment of T1

http://www.san.org/sdcraa/airport_initiatives/adp/default.aspx

http://www.san.org/documents/adp/Airport_Development_Plan_Overview.pdf

[mello]

Great updates Spoon thanks! I like the Alternative 3 design best on the T1 design.

Have you heard when the new hotels will break ground at Liberty Station? Looks like SD is in Hotel Boom phase right now. With the Cortez Hill, Lane Field, China Camp, and eventually rooms built on Harbor Island. Seems tourism has been picking up very strong this summer, have heard beaches in Mission have been super packed and flights coming in to SD are super expensive along with room rates.

[tyleraf]

Seeing terminal 1 expansion plans and reading the fact that Lindbergh will hit max capacity with almost no chance of expansion is just a reminder of the stupidity of San Diegans that why on earth are we not searching for a new airport site instead of dumping money into an airport that has limited time. But, knowing nothing will happen I hope the terminal 1 expansion turns out as nice as the green build.

[mello]

Tyler I think the most realistic scenario is extending the runway at Palomar Airport to handle 737's and slowly boosting capacity there to 5 to 8 million passengers per year. General Aviation at both Palomar and Lindbergh will cease ( Oceanside still has a GA runway and farther south you have Gillespie, Montgomery, Brown).

Then also get people in South County to use the cross border terminal and get that up to taking 3 million people per year and presto you handle all of the capacity of Metro SD/TJ that way.

Of course we would all love to see a mega facility at Miramar but even if BRAC blesses us with a closure there would still be a huge legal fight from University City, Scripps Ranch, and La Jolla peeps that would drag out for years.

[Derek]

Of course we would all love to see a mega facility at Miramar but even if BRAC blesses us with a closure there would still be a huge legal fight from University City, Scripps Ranch, and La Jolla peeps that would drag out for years.

You don't think the people in North County would put up a fight if Palomar was to be expanded? :haha:

[Leo the Dog]

Plan for redevelopment of T1

http://www.san.org/sdcraa/airport_initiatives/adp/default.aspx

http://www.san.org/documents/adp/Airport_Development_Plan_Overview.pdf

SAN is such a huge asset to Central SD.

Like Mello, I also like Alternative 3. A grand terminal that would allow more opportunities for shops and restaurants would be great.

Now if we could only get the trolley (or a people mover, like Phoenix/LA, over there.

[nezbn22]

We're a long ways from anything like Pike Place Fish Market, but this is a step in the right direction:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jul/16/fish-market-embarcadero/

[tyleraf]

Yea it is exciting to see the first step toward a full blown Fish Market downtown. I read somewhere that the port is considering using B street pier in the future as a site for a fish market.

[mello]

Speaking of B street pier is there any time table on when a park will be built on one of the piers downtown? I think if designed right that will be the most exciting component of revamping the embarcadero and also get the naysayers of the Navy Broadway Complex to calm down a bit. Maybe Manchester should step up and partially fund a park on one of the piers to appease them...

Regarding Carlsbad and possibly some San Marcos and Southern Vista residents fighting expansion of Palomar to allow for 100 daily take offs and landings each of 737's of course there will be push back. We have to realize that North County will continue to grow over the next 15 years and add lots of office space and ambitious projects like North City in San Marcos so that region will have to take its fair share of the County's infrastructure.

Hopefully a new Boeing model will come out by then that is around the same size as the 737 but with significantly quieter engines. When you watch the 787 Dreamliner take off it is much less noisy then older models.

[tyleraf]

It's navy pier next to the midway that is supposed to get the park. I don't believe there is a timeline yet. Unfortunately it also includes the wings of freedom sculpture thing that needs some serious work.

[nezbn22]

Seriously, the renderings I've seen for the wings of freedom look ridiculous. It's not so much the actual design but the proposed size of it. They have that thing as big as our biggest buildings. Scale it waaaaaaay back fellas.

If anyone's curious about the proposed "Veteran's Park" on Navy Pier, here's a UT article from 2011:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011/Nov/03/navy-pier-if-not-navy-broadway-complex-moving-forw/

Am I reading it correctly by understanding that the Midway museum is responsible for developing the park?

[nezbn22]

Another article on how the wings of freedom came about:

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2011/nov/17/origins-wings-freedom-sculpture/

[SDfan]

Plan for redevelopment of T1

http://www.san.org/sdcraa/airport_initiatives/adp/default.aspx

http://www.san.org/documents/adp/Airport_Development_Plan_Overview.pdf

Option 3, Option 3!

As for Palomar, I know they are going to be extending the runway soon. but the neighbors are wary of what might come from that. They are already claiming that there are plans to make it into a real commercial airport (which I'm not opposed to), so they are dead set against the county's ideas for Palomar.

[SDfan]

The Navy Pier is supposed to be a park. I remember when Manchester was originally presenting his conceptual designs for the Broadway Complex and it included a pedestrian bridge over Pacific Highway connecting to the Navy Pier, which had magically been transformed into a large park. Unfortunately for Manchester, local officials were quick to point out that his project plans had nothing to do with the Navy Pier, and he needed to remove the images promptly from his material.

Although, it would make sense for Manchester to broker a deal with the Midway. He could provide some funding, there would be a new park, less need to litigate over his project when there is a large mitigated space right next door.

[SDfan]

"Wings of Freedom" isn't happening.

U-G-L-Y

[mello]

The only thing I don't like about Navy pier is you have the hulky Midway basically abutting it so you only have water on two sides of it and the view is completely blocked on one side. B street pier would be better with water on all sides and would provide better spacing for view corridors from the park.

I think Manchester will probably try to get involved and move the park along for his benefit. Too bad none of us are insiders and know whats really going on.

[SDfan]

The only thing I don't like about Navy pier is you have the hulky Midway basically abutting it so you only have water on two sides of it and the view is completely blocked on one side. B street pier would be better with water on all sides and would provide better spacing for view corridors from the park.

I think Manchester will probably try to get involved and move the park along for his benefit. Too bad none of us are insiders and know whats really going on.

I think the B Street Pier is the primary Cruise Ship Terminal, so I'm not sure how willing the Port would be to give it up for park land.

[mello]

I thought the new cruise ship terminal was built on Broadway Pier?

[Bertrice]

here's a blog about kettner exchange. pretty cool. sd needs more rooftop venues
http://www.justluxe.com/travel/san-diego-news__1955751.php

http://cdn.justluxe.com/articles/galleries/69068.jpg
http://cdn.justluxe.com/articles/images/news/newmain1955751.jpg

[SDfan]

I thought the new cruise ship terminal was built on Broadway Pier?

Broadway is an axillary facility. Carnival helped pay for it before the recession killed the cruise ship industry here. They wanted something better than B Street while the Port planned more long term fixes or revamps for B Street as a cruise ship terminal later.

The Port master plan is under review and will be updated in the next couple years. Be on the look out to see what they want to do to B Street - our dumpy cruise gateway.

[IMBY]

Because the Coastal Commission has such a strangle hold on development, I've always wondered why cities like El Cajon/La Mesa and inland SD neighborhoods don't take advantage of this and allow for big time development.

Seems like they could easily attract developers to build big.

Ditto for L.A.! Why? Why not? Big time development in the eastern L.A. suburbs?

Long Beach! How on earth were they able to get high rises along the beach in that city? And not in the coastal communities to the north or south of there? Coastal commission excludes Long Beach?

Yes, it does seem weird, if you've ever been to the Miami area, to see single family homes so close to the ocean in SoCal!

Throw out the coastal commission, and you've got decades of construction activity ahead up and down the southern CA coastline, and hopefully, the result of overbuilding, more affordable housing!

[spoonman]

Ditto for L.A.! Why? Why not? Big time development in the eastern L.A. suburbs?

Long Beach! How on earth were they able to get high rises along the beach in that city? And not in the coastal communities to the north or south of there? Coastal commission excludes Long Beach?

Yes, it does seem weird, if you've ever been to the Miami area, to see single family homes so close to the ocean in SoCal!

Throw out the coastal commission, and you've got decades of construction activity ahead up and down the southern CA coastline, and hopefully, the result of overbuilding, more affordable housing!

That's an interesting point. The economy would get an ENORMOUS boost if high rises were suddenly aloud to be build along the coast in California.

[eburress]

I don't think this is any surprise but Omnitracs is also moving to TX. I didn't realize Websense relocated as well though...that was news to me. They were a silly company but it's still a bummer.

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2014/07/18/omnitracs-moving-headquarters-450-jobs-to-downtown.html?page=all

[tyleraf]

I like the renders for the Kettner Exchange. That building has sat vacant for too long. I'd love to see the Coastal Commission removed as it would make everything a LOT easier when it comes to development up and down the coast.

[mongoXZ]

I don't think this is any surprise but Omnitracs is also moving to TX. I didn't realize Websense relocated as well though...that was news to me. They were a silly company but it's still a bummer.

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2014/07/18/omnitracs-moving-headquarters-450-jobs-to-downtown.html?page=all

All companies mentioned were bought out by the same equity firm with the intent to move them to Texas with the help of millions of dollars from the Texas Govt.

When you can't create an innovative and creative environment like California can . . .then you buy their table scraps using tax payer funds! (instead investing it into higher education).:shrug:

. . . .and on to some more relevant San Diego redevelopment news . . .

[mello]

I'm not so sure if highrises would just start flying up if there were no coastal commission NIMBY's would still be in full force, look at One Paseo where a 12 floor building built at the base of a hill so it won't poke up very prominently at all is being fought tooth and nail. Also La Mesa with that 18 floor proposal there.

Even look at J Street Marina where towers are basically green lighted with no opposition and do you see any cranes in the air with Marina Del Rey type towers sprouting up?

Check out that Toronto thread in the my city photos section. Now there is a market where high rise demand everywhere is producing a burgeoning urban area. Check out the cluster of towers around the Marina near the end of the pics :slob: That is how Chula Vista Bayfront should look.

[eburress]

All companies mentioned were bought out by the same equity firm with the intent to move them to Texas with the help of millions of dollars from the Texas Govt.

When you can't create an innovative and creative environment like California can . . .then you buy their table scraps using tax payer funds! (instead investing it into higher education).:shrug:

. . . .and on to some more relevant San Diego redevelopment news . . .

Keep telling yourself that.

[Bertrice]

Keep telling yourself that.

I knew someone would rebut

[Andy-4-SD]

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2014/05/08/preferred-high-speed-rail-route-goes-above-i-30.html

We need to rethink the high speed rail. Texas has a much smarter idea and my guess is that their plan will be constructed before any California bullet train will be. California should build something that will get high ridership and will be profitable. I feel like it would be a much smarter plan to build high speed rail just through socal. Or even on a smaller scale and just orange county to north la or in san diego county with stops oceanside, Carlsbad, utc, downtown etc. High speed rail with be much more popular if it is an alternative to a car as opposed to a plane. It will be used heavily if it is an alternative to car commuting, as it will dodge the car traffic and get people to work much sooner. In order to be used heavily it needs to go [Ithrough[/I] all the urban areas and connect residential to business corridors. Texas has a much smarter plan of starting out just building from Fort worth to downtown Dallas. I see this as quite similar to much of socal. I think if california started out with just building one segment in southern california, the public would see the benefit and it could be later expanded. I think the plan currently has much to big of a price tag to be feasible. The train would be a great boost for our economy if they go about it correctly.

[HurricaneHugo]

^^^Honestly I agree with starting with LA-SF since that is the busiest US air route...

[spoonman]

Well, LA-SD is the 2ND busiest rail route.

[eburress]

Well, LA-SD is the 2ND busiest rail route.

SF-LA is the busiest? That's the route they'd probably take the HSR anyway, but like the original poster was suggesting that probably wouldn't be the costlier route and wouldn't help us (down here in SD) anytime soon.

[spoonman]

No, NYC-PHL-DC is the busiest rail route in the US. LA-SD is the second busiest.

[Bertrice]

southwest is the high speed rail. why not a government subsidized airline . call it cali jet or not

[SDCAL]

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2014/05/08/preferred-high-speed-rail-route-goes-above-i-30.html

We need to rethink the high speed rail. Texas has a much smarter idea and my guess is that their plan will be constructed before any California bullet train will be. California should build something that will get high ridership and will be profitable. I feel like it would be a much smarter plan to build high speed rail just through socal. Or even on a smaller scale and just orange county to north la or in san diego county with stops oceanside, Carlsbad, utc, downtown etc. High speed rail with be much more popular if it is an alternative to a car as opposed to a plane. It will be used heavily if it is an alternative to car commuting, as it will dodge the car traffic and get people to work much sooner. In order to be used heavily it needs to go [Ithrough[/I] all the urban areas and connect residential to business corridors. Texas has a much smarter plan of starting out just building from Fort worth to downtown Dallas. I see this as quite similar to much of socal. I think if california started out with just building one segment in southern california, the public would see the benefit and it could be later expanded. I think the plan currently has much to big of a price tag to be feasible. The train would be a great boost for our economy if they go about it correctly.

First off, what's with all these people posting about Texas lately?? I think it's healthy to look at various other places and see what works, what doesn't - but lately it seems like this board has been infiltrated with people who think Texas is some type of utopian model for which CA should base our government and infrastructure on.

If Texas is so great, have at ...... free to move (I'm not directing this to the person I'm replying to, just to people in general who seem to think Texas is a paradise - - I'm really perplexed by this recent "Texas is perfect" tone on a San Diego development blog of all places).

As far as HSR, you have to keep in mind LA and SF are the major economic and cultural hubs of the state. That is the real target of HSR and makes the most business sense and I think other lines in OC, SD, etc are afterthoughts.

[SDCAL]

Keep telling yourself that.

According to this NYT article about Texas' business incentives:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/03/us/winners-and-losers-in-texas.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

- Texas spends $19 billion per year (more than any other state) using tax payer money, to lure companies, of course some will leave CA and other states. And the money used to do this has to come from other sources, like public education which Texas cut by 5.4 billion.

- Texas still has the third-highest proportion of hourly jobs paying at or below minimum wage and has the 11th-highest poverty rate among states despite the lower unemployment rates

Anyway, I'm not trying to start an argument nor do I necessarily disagree with many of the points you have made, but there are pros and cons to both the Texas and CA models. This article is a good read and definitely looks at the down-sides of Texas' approach to business growth.

A lot of people get upset about social welfare, but what about corporate welfare? Isn't that what Texas is basically doing ?