SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[SDDTProspector]

Found a nice little PDF map of the tentants of each downtown block, it looks fairly up to date.

http://www.sandiego-1031.com/newsletter/reports/miscellaneous/dtmap_districts_web.pdf

[sandiegodweller]

Actually, here is the quote from the SDDT:

"Planned and under construction retail space currently totals 575,291 square feet, 75 percent of which is a multilevel power center planned for development on the former Unocal site adjacent to Petco Park. By comparison, in 2005 there was 1.13 million square feet of new space planned or under construction, 64 percent of which was located in the East Village area near Petco Park."

I guess this does sound like something along the lines of Harlem U.S.A. by SOM, at least lets hope so.

I heard that this thing is dead.

[sandiegodweller]

Where is the FBI Complex sup post to be?

The GSA put out an Request for Proposals for a new FBI complex. The area that they will consider is between the 52 Freeway on the north, the 15 Freeway on the east, the 94 freeway on the south and the 5 freeway on the west.

They are looking for land owners and developers to submit their land for consideration. The FBI wants a build-to-suit and will sign a 50 year lease.

[OCtoSD]

AALS stands for American Association of Law Schools. I got this from the American Bar Association Website

AALS Moves Seminars Due to Profs’ Protest About Hotel Owner’s Views

Posted 5 hours, 7 minutes ago
By Debra Cassens Weiss

To avoid a threatened boycott, the Association of American Law Schools won’t hold its annual meeting seminars at a hotel owned by a gay-marriage opponent.

The AALS says in a statement that it will abide by its contract to reserve hotel rooms at the Manchester Grand Hyatt but it won’t hold events there, the National Law Journal reports. The group’s annual meeting will be held in January.

Several groups representing law professors had threatened a boycott because the hotel’s owner, Douglas Manchester, has donated $125,000 to an initiative to ban same-sex marriage in the state.

[staplesla]

Got this email regarding 7th & Market project:

In light of documentation recently made available to Centre City Development Corporation (CCDC), which included testimony made by its former President under penalty of perjury, and in the interest of preserving public resources, CCDC has suspended its internal inquiry of the Seventh & Market project effective today.

A discussion of the status of the Seventh & Market project will be placed on the Board's agenda for a special meeting on September 10. CCDC has contacted the Related/CityLink team to inform them of the suspension of the inquiry and the upcoming Board discussion on the project. CCDC sincerely appreciates their understanding.

[keg92101]

I heard that this thing is dead.

Really? Too bad. Would have been nice to get a Lowes / Target downtown.

[bmfarley]

Got this email regarding 7th & Market project:

In light of documentation recently made available to Centre City Development Corporation (CCDC), which included testimony made by its former President under penalty of perjury, and in the interest of preserving public resources, CCDC has suspended its internal inquiry of the Seventh & Market project effective today.

A discussion of the status of the Seventh & Market project will be placed on the Board's agenda for a special meeting on September 10. CCDC has contacted the Related/CityLink team to inform them of the suspension of the inquiry and the upcoming Board discussion on the project. CCDC sincerely appreciates their understanding.
Yes, that news was on the VOC or Tribune site yesterday or Sunday.

I suspect that does not mean it's cancelled! It looked nice a nice building.... but better when the proposed African American Museum was going to be in it too.

[Marina_Guy]

AALS stands for American Association of Law Schools. I got this from the American Bar Association Website

AALS Moves Seminars Due to Profs’ Protest About Hotel Owner’s Views

Posted 5 hours, 7 minutes ago
By Debra Cassens Weiss

To avoid a threatened boycott, the Association of American Law Schools won’t hold its annual meeting seminars at a hotel owned by a gay-marriage opponent.

The AALS says in a statement that it will abide by its contract to reserve hotel rooms at the Manchester Grand Hyatt but it won’t hold events there, the National Law Journal reports. The group’s annual meeting will be held in January.

Several groups representing law professors had threatened a boycott because the hotel’s owner, Douglas Manchester, has donated $125,000 to an initiative to ban same-sex marriage in the state.

Excellent. I noticed "Papa Hateful Doug" has dropped his room rates to $139... during some summer days... Ouch. Being a jerk can hurt the bottom line.

[Derek]

That project got me excited. :(

[laguna]

I notice that La Raza was welcomed there and I am sure that the owners dont agree with their views. It is funny who is for free speech and a group of lawyers are not. I thought this was not a political rag and was about buildings.

[sandiegodweller]

"The AALS says in a statement that it will abide by its contract to reserve hotel rooms at the Manchester Grand Hyatt but it won’t hold events there, the National Law Journal reports. The group’s annual meeting will be held in January."

They are still paying for the rooms. That doesn't seem to be a very effective strategy.

[bmfarley]

"The AALS says in a statement that it will abide by its contract to reserve hotel rooms at the Manchester Grand Hyatt but it won’t hold events there, the National Law Journal reports. The group’s annual meeting will be held in January."

They are still paying for the rooms. That doesn't seem to be a very effective strategy.

Well, wouldn't it be hypocritical of attorney's to go against a contract they had entered in to?

[sandiegodweller]

Well, wouldn't it be hypocritical of attorney's to go against a contract they had entered in to?


A typical attorney move would be to challenge the contract on the grounds that Manchester had created a hostile environment for gays and therefore affected the "quiet enjoyment" of the anticipated stay. They would want compensatory damages for "emotional distress".

[Mariobrotha]

Does anyone know what's happening with the Trolley Silver Line downtown? I remember reading that it should be open in 2008 in time for some national transportation expo.

[bmfarley]

Does anyone know what's happening with the Trolley Silver Line downtown? I remember reading that it should be open in 2008 in time for some national transportation expo.
I doubt very much the streetcars will be ready by then, but yes, that was the intent. Their rehabilitation, at least 2 cars, but no more than 3, is being done by a volunteer group of craftmen and such. If and when they do run... it'll be during off-peak times and weekends... and only in the clockwise direction. If there are only 2 cars... they'll be about 15-30 minutes apart... and no better.

[SDCAL]

"The AALS says in a statement that it will abide by its contract to reserve hotel rooms at the Manchester Grand Hyatt but it won’t hold events there, the National Law Journal reports. The group’s annual meeting will be held in January."

They are still paying for the rooms. That doesn't seem to be a very effective strategy.

It is effective strategy, there are other implications besides financial, namely bad publicity which Manchester has been getting.

In fact, I think it's good that they are still paying for the rooms, yet making a point that is getting publicity. This way the actual workers at the Hyatt are not suffering from lack of business but Manchester is getting bad press

Regardless of what anyone says, this gay protest of the Hyatt has had a significant impact. It's in the UT like every other day, and I would imagine any other would-be high-profile donor to the anti gay marriage ballot measure is thinking twice after seeing how much press Manchester has received -

[keg92101]

It is effective strategy, there are other implications besides financial, namely bad publicity which Manchester has been getting.

In fact, I think it's good that they are still paying for the rooms, yet making a point that is getting publicity. This way the actual workers at the Hyatt are not suffering from lack of business but Manchester is getting bad press

Regardless of what anyone says, this gay protest of the Hyatt has had a significant impact. It's in the UT like every other day, and I would imagine any other would-be high-profile donor to the anti gay marriage ballot measure is thinking twice after seeing how much press Manchester has received -

Why would any high-profile donor think twice with what Manchester has gone through? Regardless of whether or not you agree with Papa Doug, politically, at least he has the guts to put his money where his mouth is, and stick with it even after he gets all of the bad press.

[laguna]

The publicity Manchester receives is actually good for his image, contrary to what you think, because the majority of the public is actually for keeping the definitiion of marriage the way it has always been. Average people could care less what a group of lawyers support. The UT is giving Manchester a good image. Maybe the dailykos and huffington post is where you guys belong since this thread is really just a couple of lonely people scratching each others nuts.

[sandiego_urban]

The publicity Manchester receives is actually good for his image, contrary to what you think, because the majority of the public is actually for keeping the definitiion of marriage the way it has always been.
Yeah, and at one time the "marjority" didn't allow women to vote or let Blacks eat in certain restaurants. Times are a changin'....





Yet another cancellation. From today's SD Union-Trib -


Hyatt Loses Another Conference

Stance on gay marriage by owner draws objection

By Craig Gustafson
STAFF WRITER

August 22, 2008

The Manchester Grand Hyatt has lost its second major conference in a week in large part because of owner Doug Manchester's stance against same-sex marriage.

The county retirement board voted unanimously yesterday to move its October conference out of the downtown Hyatt after a board member raised concerns over Manchester's $125,000 contribution to a signature-gathering campaign to place Proposition 8 on the Nov. 4 ballot.

The ballot measure would change the state constitution to define marriage as between a man and a woman, thus reversing a court ruling that legalized same-sex marriage in California. Manchester “profits from business at the Hyatt. So we would be using members' money to fund his discriminatory, personal practices,” said Dave Myers, a board member of the San Diego County Employees Retirement Association who pushed for moving the conference.

The retirement group joins the Association of American Law Schools, which opted this week to hold its January convention at the San Diego Marriott Hotel & Marina and not at the neighboring Hyatt. The association had been asked by some legal education groups to honor a boycott against the Hyatt.

Manchester, a Catholic, said he supports Proposition 8 because he wants to maintain the tax-exempt status of the state's churches, schools and hospitals. Opponents of same-sex marriage argue that religious entities who refuse to treat same-sex couples equally with heterosexual couples could lose tax-exempt status and government contracts.

“I'm obviously disappointed that a select few would try to in fact undermine one of San Diego's leading businesses that has contributed so much to the community across the board in charitable giving,” he said.

Brian White, the retirement association's chief executive, said he is negotiating with the Hyatt and the hotel appears willing to waive a $35,000 cancellation fee – a key sticking point for some board members. The Oct. 12-14 conference will be moved to the San Diego Convention Center, but a bloc of rooms will remain at the Hyatt.

A similar deal was worked out with the law group.

Some retirement board members objected to the Hyatt but not because of the gay marriage issue. Unions have been boycotting the hotel over its labor practices and certain board members represent employee groups.

County Supervisor Dianne Jacob, who sits on the board, doesn't support same-sex marriage but voted for the change out of respect to board members who may have been unwilling to cross picket lines.

She said she supported it because “we weren't losing any money, we weren't violating anything, and it seemed like a good compromise, so hopefully we don't need to discuss this matter again.”

[sandiego_urban]

Click here for more renderings and info on the the Gerding Edlen proposal - http://www.gerdingedlen.com/civiccenter/

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/model.jpg

[Marina_Guy]

The publicity Manchester receives is actually good for his image, contrary to what you think, because the majority of the public is actually for keeping the definitiion of marriage the way it has always been. Average people could care less what a group of lawyers support. The UT is giving Manchester a good image. Maybe the dailykos and huffington post is where you guys belong since this thread is really just a couple of lonely people scratching each others nuts.

I don't think you have your facts right....

=====

Field Poll: Prop 8, California Initiative To Ban Gay Marriage, Trails
Joe Mathews -
July 18, 2008 - 8:15am

No (which is the pro-gay marriage side of Prop 8) had 51 percent and yes had 42 percent in the poll, the results of which are here. While that may seem close, it's very good news for those who support same sex marriage. In ballot measure campaigns, most undecided people break no, and it's much more common for the "no" side to make gains as a campaign progresses. One rule of thumb is that an initiative without at least 60 percent support in the early stages is by definition an initiative in trouble.

[SDCAL]

Why would any high-profile donor think twice with what Manchester has gone through? Regardless of whether or not you agree with Papa Doug, politically, at least he has the guts to put his money where his mouth is, and stick with it even after he gets all of the bad press.

having "guts" assumes Manchester knew it would get this much attention when he donated, which I seriously doubt he did. I think he probably expected to quietly donate and was not expecting protests at his hotel

I guess we will see in November where the public stands on the matter, personally I see no problem whatsoever from gays marrying. As long as they are not doing something illegal, they have every right to the same rights as everyone else.

[SDCAL]

Gerding looks good ;)

[Mariobrotha]

It looks like Vantage Pointe has started up construction again. Now, is it just me, or does Vantage Pointe look just a twinge taller than Symphony Towers? Might just be my angle. I'll have to spy on it from the Cabrillo Bridge in the park, as it gives the best-- er, um-- vantage point.

[Derek]

It's just the angle. It does look tall though.

[PadreHomer]

I doubt very much the streetcars will be ready by then, but yes, that was the intent. Their rehabilitation, at least 2 cars, but no more than 3, is being done by a volunteer group of craftmen and such. If and when they do run... it'll be during off-peak times and weekends... and only in the clockwise direction. If there are only 2 cars... they'll be about 15-30 minutes apart... and no better.
How can they run clockwise? Is it supposed to be on the current trolley tracks?

[Derek]

How can they run clockwise? Is it supposed to be on the current trolley tracks?

Yes.

[bmfarley]

How can they run clockwise? Is it supposed to be on the current trolley tracks?
Look at a map that includes the existing downtown light-rail network. You will see that trains can run clock-wise w/o any track changes.... Bayside to C Street to Park/12th to Bayside etc.

Of course, counterclockwise appears doable... until you see that that involves trains crossing tracks in front of other trains... creating conflicts... ... and most importantly, crossovers are not in the places that they need to be in!

Clockwise is the only easy direction such a service could operate... essentially fitting into where there is the physical capability and train spacing.

And, off peak times is the only times that could accomodate the added service.

[HurricaneHugo]

Carlsbad Desalination Plant Gets OK

http://www.reuters.com/article/environmentNews/idUSN2235099720080823

Nice.:)

[tdavis]

Hey guys,

I'm new to this forum but was curious if there were any members who were in the loop regarding the San Diego trolley. I came across this image regarding future lines being discussed in the 90's for the trolley expansion. The only thing I can find on the net is on the wikipedia but it doesn't say much. The map has a copyright of 2008 so was curious. Anyone know if these are still in play?

http://img367.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trolleyve3.jpg

[bmfarley]

Hey guys,

I'm new to this forum but was curious if there were any members who were in the loop regarding the San Diego trolley. I came across this image regarding future lines being discussed in the 90's for the trolley expansion. The only thing I can find on the net is on the wikipedia but it doesn't say much. The map has a copyright of 2008 so was curious. Anyone know if these are still in play?

http://img367.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trolleyve3.jpg

That is pure fiction. Must be some guys wishful thinking.

[staplesla]

Hey guys,

I'm new to this forum but was curious if there were any members who were in the loop regarding the San Diego trolley. I came across this image regarding future lines being discussed in the 90's for the trolley expansion. The only thing I can find on the net is on the wikipedia but it doesn't say much. The map has a copyright of 2008 so was curious. Anyone know if these are still in play?

http://img367.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trolleyve3.jpg


This actually isn't pure fiction, but it's based off of rail expansion discussed long ago, not anything current. There are currently no real plans for expansion, though the Mid-Coast extension to the UTC area is the one most probable. Others were discussed but have since lost support. I'm assuming you are referring to this Wiki article? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Trolley

It mentions all the lines discussed under "Other New Service Ideas."

[HurricaneHugo]

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/7647/trolleyve3.jpg

That looks amazing...but...

The only one with a chance of happening would be the mid-coast extension.

[malsponger]

Library
Civic Center
Courthouse (OK federal)
Airport Relocation
Trolley Extension

I'd love to see this all happen but this city is seeming mighty ambitious for how thin it's wallets are.

[bmfarley]

Library
Civic Center
Courthouse (OK federal)
Airport Relocation
Trolley Extension

I'd love to see this all happen but this city is seeming mighty ambitious for how thin it's wallets are.
Yes, I'd agree.

The Courthouses (county/state and Federal), Trolley Mid-Coast extension, and Airport are different governmental organizations. But, I'd add the Library to the list... and rehabilitating C Street and Balboa Park. Fortunately it looks like the Geerding Civic Center Plan is cheaper than doing the required retrofitting for fire safety and continuing to lease off-site office space over a 50-year time horizon... which is the aproximate current Civic Center age.

In my opinion, the local ambition is inversely related to the deferred governmental action in providing amenties for its citizens.

There are a couple other things I'd like to see on that list too.... such as a new football stadium or something like the Arc de Triumph in Balboa Park (smaller version? different symbolism?).

[sandiegodweller]

Looks like Hines knew what they were doing by bowing out.



Now CCDC probe finds problem with Civic Center project

By Jeanette Steele
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

August 28, 2008

DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO – An expanded conflict-of-interest investigation by downtown San Diego's redevelopment authority has found a problem with the proposed Civic Center project.

Centre City Development Corp. officials announced yesterday that the consultant with a $700,000 contract to lead the agency's financial analysis has a tie to Gerding Edlen, the Oregon developer that is the last remaining contender to rebuild San Diego's City Hall.
An executive at the consultant firm, Jones Lang LaSalle, recently took a job at CB Richard Ellis, which helped Gerding put its proposal together.

In response, CCDC officials said they will hire another outside firm to check the consultant's analysis. Jones Lang LaSalle will cover the cost, CCDC chairman Fred Maas said at a news conference at the besieged agency's offices.

CCDC has been under intense scrutiny over the past month after revelations that former President Nancy Graham had an undisclosed business relationship with The Related Co., which was chosen by the agency for a $409 million public-private project.

Despite Graham's claims she had no recent ties to Related, court documents have shown she received $3.5 million from the developer, a portion coming as late as June 2007, for her work on a Florida condo project.

The downtown agency said yesterday it has widened a previously announced conflict-of-interest probe to include all projects going back three years. Graham joined the quasi-governmental agency in December 2005.

“This process will not be pretty,” Maas said.

Jim Lough, the lawyer hired for the probe, said he will interview witnesses, do legal research and review e-mails for his investigation. Lough said he will also try to interview Graham, who resigned last month, citing the ill health of her mother in Tennessee.

Maas said the extra work on the Civic Center could delay the project, which was scheduled to go to the City Council for approval in October. If the delay stretches into December, the project will face a new City Council. One future councilman -- Carl DeMaio of District 5 -- has said he opposes the redevelopment plan.

The agency also said it will ask all current and previous project applicants to state whether they have, or ever had, financial relationships with Graham or any existing CCDC official.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeanette Steele: (619) 293-1030; jen.steele@uniontrib.com

[bmfarley]

An online Tribune article yesterday indicated that it was a CCDC employee that was hired away... and not to Gerding, but to a sub-consultant or co-applicant. And, I don't believe it was the fellow doing CCDC internal review of the financials.

Could it have been inaccurate reporting... as if that ever happens?

Either way, I don't see anything too critical or fatal.

Disclaimer...

Of course, whenever you get 3 accountants or financial analysts into a room you get 4 or more opinions or different versions of data comming out So, although Jones Lang LaSalle will cover the cost of re-examining their soon-to-be ex-employees work, they will likely come up with different results. Thus, enter more consternation into the process and the house comes down like a house of cards.

[Fusey]

Of course, whenever you get 3 accountants or financial analysts into a room you get 4 or more opinions or different versions of data comming out

Nothing wrong with that. :)

Unless you need a solid answer...





Edit: Nevermind about the accident; saw the UT article.

[SD_Phil]

It was on CNN and on local news. 9 injured from what I heard.

[bmfarley]

It was on CNN and on local news. 9 injured from what I heard.
The Trib site now says 14, with 2 critically injred. Also, none are workers as all were passerby-ers. Two victims are children.

With that said, I know the area very well. That corner attracts, like a strong magnet, clients to Father Joe's accessing their services.

What's going on at that corner at that time is loitering... people not having anything to do but hang-out. Very very often, so many peeps are crowding the sidewalk that those in wheelchairs roll in the traffic lanes on Imperial instead. Other pedestrians do the same. It sometimes feels like an atmosphere of Russian rhoulette driving down the street... will someone walk out in my may... or get out of the way. I am suprised that there are not more ped-car accidents as there are now.

I am a skeptic on this one.... that the majority of those involved were loitering, not passing by, and possibly caused the accident themselves by messing around with the scaffolding equipment. I observed during earlier construction at this site that those frequenting the area seemed disgruntled by the disruption to THEIR environment. As if they owned the public space immediately adjacent to it. Trash was frequently tossed over the construction fence and passerby-ers often ignored areas cordoned off for construction... exposing them, and workers, to dangerous conditions.

[Fusey]

^ After reading the article and your post that's what I was thinking as well. At my former employer we'd do a lot of work with MTS in that neighborhood. Pretty much everything you said I've witnessed many times.

[sandiegodweller]

An online Tribune article yesterday indicated that it was a CCDC employee that was hired away... and not to Gerding, but to a sub-consultant or co-applicant. And, I don't believe it was the fellow doing CCDC internal review of the financials.

Could it have been inaccurate reporting... as if that ever happens?

Either way, I don't see anything too critical or fatal.

Disclaimer...

Of course, whenever you get 3 accountants or financial analysts into a room you get 4 or more opinions or different versions of data comming out So, although Jones Lang LaSalle will cover the cost of re-examining their soon-to-be ex-employees work, they will likely come up with different results. Thus, enter more consternation into the process and the house comes down like a house of cards.

Probably not fatal but it will delay the vote for 4 months. The new City Council will get a shot at it in early 2009. What you see today is probably not what you will see then.

[malsponger]

On the other side of town:
Sapphire crane is down. A few missing window sections where the construction elevator ran up. Also it looks like the sheet rock still needs to be up around the staircase. Interested to see what that surface will look like.

Bayside just put the top floor windows in. Still working on pooring the concrete for the crown effect, then I am sure the crane will come down sometime next week.

Vantage Pointe a lot being done these last few days. Looks very close to topping out. Glass up about 2/3s of the way.

Strata: Still looks underground.

Indigo: Looks to be at street level.

Ex-Burger King (1050 B) - Still digging but lots of work being done.

[bmfarley]

^ After reading the article and your post that's what I was thinking as well. At my former employer we'd do a lot of work with MTS in that neighborhood. Pretty much everything you said I've witnessed many times.

To add onto what I wrote, and glad you concur... this photo shows a shopping cart and blankee that likely wouldn't be there under typical circumstances. And, narrow temporary paths for construction and immediately adjacent to a travel lane is no place to 'hang out'! Err... loiter.

http://photos.signonsandiego.com/albums/walkway/NL_Collapse289896x001.jpg

And not to be too much of a skeptic, but I wonder how of those injured only claimed to be injured in anticipation of fradulent claims for financial relief????

I really feel for the construction company.

[SDCAL]

The Trib site now says 14, with 2 critically injred. Also, none are workers as all were passerby-ers. Two victims are children.

With that said, I know the area very well. That corner attracts, like a strong magnet, clients to Father Joe's accessing their services.

What's going on at that corner at that time is loitering... people not having anything to do but hang-out. Very very often, so many peeps are crowding the sidewalk that those in wheelchairs roll in the traffic lanes on Imperial instead. Other pedestrians do the same. It sometimes feels like an atmosphere of Russian rhoulette driving down the street... will someone walk out in my may... or get out of the way. I am suprised that there are not more ped-car accidents as there are now.

I am a skeptic on this one.... that the majority of those involved were loitering, not passing by, and possibly caused the accident themselves by messing around with the scaffolding equipment. I observed during earlier construction at this site that those frequenting the area seemed disgruntled by the disruption to THEIR environment. As if they owned the public space immediately adjacent to it. Trash was frequently tossed over the construction fence and passerby-ers often ignored areas cordoned off for construction... exposing them, and workers, to dangerous conditions.


I have to say I am pretty repulsed by these comments - - I live downtown and walk under these construction zones all the time, you have to to be on foot downtown. It is scary to think this could happen to me or someone I care about.

I don't know how you fake "critical injuries" as two had, and as far as the others any legal claim would need to be evaluated with a medical report of the injuries.

To suggest fraud simply because this happened in a less afluent area of town is like the crude comments I heard about NO after the Hurricane Katrina. I don't care who the people are, you should be able to walk on a public sidewalk without having construction materials falling on your head! Really diaspointed in this kind of stuff :(

Hopefully this will be a wake up call for all contruction zones to be extra mindful of safety, and gad nobody died!!

[HurricaneHugo]

Apparently a truck backed up into it causing it to fall.

[staplesla]

And not to be too much of a skeptic, but I wonder how of those injured only claimed to be injured in anticipation of fradulent claims for financial relief????

I really feel for the construction company.

How tasteless! People got hurt and all you can think about are the small percentage of those who file fradulent claims?

[bmfarley]

I have to say I am pretty repulsed by these comments - - I live downtown and walk under these construction zones all the time, you have to to be on foot downtown. It is scary to think this could happen to me or someone I care about.

I don't know how you fake "critical injuries" as two had, and as far as the others any legal claim would need to be evaluated with a medical report of the injuries.

To suggest fraud simply because this happened in a less afluent area of town is like the crude comments I heard about NO after the Hurricane Katrina. I don't care who the people are, you should be able to walk on a public sidewalk without having construction materials falling on your head! Really diaspointed in this kind of stuff :(

Hopefully this will be a wake up call for all contruction zones to be extra mindful of safety, and gad nobody died!!

Repulsed by the comments? Or repulsed by what happened at the site?

The large majority of the time I choose to believe the good in people. However, being familiar with the area and those that frequent this specific site I feel my skepticism is justified.

In no way do I know if the scaffolding came down by someone being a deviant, but I would not be surprised. OSHA will be examining the site. Oddly, one of the UT pictures did show a truck behind the temporary wall in a place that seemed odd… and a person interviewed on FOX indicated the wall moved from the other side just before it came down. Are they related?

As for possible fraud…. it is not uncommon at all for someone that is down and out, living on the margins to get by, to take advantage of a situation when it presents itself.

“Ow, my neck hurts!”

I do not know if someone did try and claim an injury when they were not, but two things came together to present a seemingly golden opportunity!

staplesla: obviously not as I spoke to other things too.

[Derek]

To add onto what I wrote, and glad you concur... this photo shows a shopping cart and blankee that likely wouldn't be there under typical circumstances. And, narrow temporary paths for construction and immediately adjacent to a travel lane is no place to 'hang out'! Err... loiter.

http://photos.signonsandiego.com/albums/walkway/NL_Collapse289896x001.jpg

And not to be too much of a skeptic, but I wonder how of those injured only claimed to be injured in anticipation of fradulent claims for financial relief????

I really feel for the construction company.



Wait what happened? I didn't see anybody post an article about that.

[Fusey]

Derek, in my original post I mentioned that a friend sent me an email regarding a structural collapse near Father Joe's. After the UT posted an article I edited my post. Sorry for the confusion.

On a side note, my friend told me later on that many people in that area were talking about "the great deal" the injured were going to get and some even said, "I wish that was me!" like this accident was a good thing. I don't think bmfarley was out of line, I think he was perfectly justified in his comments. Anyone who has ever dealt with the homeless population in the East Village would tell you the same thing he did.

[Derek]

So a wall at a construction site fell on homeless people? What project was it?

[SDCAL]

So a wall at a construction site fell on homeless people? What project was it?

we don't know, they are speculating because of where it was located

in the UT today they say 3 people are seiously injured

just because some yahoos were making tasteless comments near the scene is no reason to assume the construction company is in the clear and homeless people sobaotaged it

I stand by my opinion that the comments were out of line, but that's just my opinion we are each entitled to our own ;)

Here is the article, this consturction company has had previous violations:

Three badly hurt as covered walkway collapses



Others injured when block-long section falls
By Greg Gross and Angelica Martinez
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITERS

August 29, 2008

A covered wooden walkway collapsed on pedestrians at an East Village construction site during lunch hour yesterday, critically injuring three people.


PEGGY PEATTIE / Union-Tribune
Emergency personnel came to the aid of pedestrians injured yesterday when a walkway collapsed next to an apartment building under construction at 15th Street and Imperial Avenue.
“I've never seen a building fall like that,” said Ariel Medina, who was treated by paramedics on the sidewalk. “The whole darn walkway fell down.”

Medina said it was chaos as people screamed and ran if they were able. Some were hit directly by the falling wood, while others received glancing blows.

The block-long pathway was erected next to a three-story apartment building going up at 15th Street and Imperial Avenue in downtown San Diego. It was designed to protect pedestrians from debris falling from the construction site.

Investigators with the California Occupational Safety and Health Administration said the cause of the accident just after noon was unknown.

Medina, 34, of Rancho Peñasquitos, was on her way to the bank when she stopped in the walkway to talk to a friend. She said it swayed, then fell, striking her in the back. She estimated that about 20 people were in the walkway at the time.



Fifteen of the injured were taken by ambulance to four hospitals, including Scripps Mercy Hospital and UCSD Medical Center, both in Hillcrest.

They ranged in age from 16 to 64, but most are in their mid-40s and mid-50s, said Maurice Luque, San Diego Fire-Rescue Department spokesman.

Those in critical condition were two women, ages 57 and 60, and a 50-year-old man, he said.

Dr. Michael J. Sise, medical director of the trauma unit at Scripps Mercy, said two badly injured patients being treated there had suffered a broken back and a fractured leg.

Sise said that he had talked to officials at the hospitals and that all the patients were expected to survive.

The general contractor for the site is Carlsbad-based Allgire General Contractors. Kathryn Musso, operations manager, said the company doesn't know what caused the accident.

“It's under investigation currently, and that happened immediately as soon as the site was secured,” Musso said. “Our first and foremost concern is for . . . anyone who was injured.”



Advertisement Asked about prior violations at the site, Musso said, “I don't know anything about that.”
According to state records, Allgire has had at least two accidents in the past four years, one which led to a $16,000 fine and citation for a serious violation of state safety law.

One of those accidents was in December at the same 15th Street and Imperial Avenue site. The company was cited for a low-level violation of leaving a ladder unsecured and was fined $200, according to records from the state Department of Industrial Relations.

The more serious incident happened in September 2004 in Encinitas, where the company was building new multifamily housing. Responding to an accident there, the state cited Allgire for not providing a guardrail to protect workers from falling.

When the state classifies a violation as “serious,” according to department spokesman Dean Fryer, it means the employer knew the violation existed and didn't correct it. He couldn't say yesterday, however, what the circumstances were in the 2004 accident.

In total, Allgire received four citations for safety violations, according to state records going back to 1972.

“They don't have an extensive list with us,” Fryer said. “I've seen construction companies with voluminous records.”

The project under construction, called “Studio fifteen,” will be 275 units of affordable housing. It is scheduled to open in the spring.

Father Joe Carroll, who runs the St. Vincent de Paul-Joan Kroc Center for the homeless across the street, said people who live at the center and who have lunch there were near the walkway when it collapsed.

Tina Allen, 41, lives at St. Vincent de Paul with her husband, Tyrone, 49, who was serously injured and taken to Scripps Mercy.

“We were just standing under the boardwalk when it suddenly came down. It was horrible,” she said at the hospital.

Abigail Garcia, 50, was on her way to a dentist office when the structure began to fall.

Garcia said it felt like something struck the walkway before the collapse, and she said she was lucky to get out of the way before it tumbled down. She was treated by paramedics at the scene for an ankle injury.

A construction worker at the site, who did not want to be named, said he did not believe that any construction scaffolding next to the building fell on the walkway.

The developer of the project is San Diego-based Affirmed Housing Group.

Julie A. Hattler, chief financial officer for the company, arrived at the site shortly after the accident.

“We are very concerned with the individuals that were injured,” she said. “Our thoughts and our prayers go out to them.”

It was the second major accident at a downtown construction site in the last several months.

On May 19, 14 construction workers were injured, three critically, in an explosion at the Hilton San Diego Bayfront under construction near the San Diego Convention Center.

The explosion ripped through the fifth-floor boiler room of the 30-story hotel and knocked out the northern face of the fourth through seventh floors.

The cause remains under investigation by Cal-OSHA, with a report expected by the end of the year.

[SDCAL]

Marriott won't build 1,929-room hotel here
UNION-TRIBUNE

4:19 p.m. August 29, 2008

SAN DIEGO – Marriott Corp. has pulled out of its plan to build the West Coast's largest hotel – 1,929 rooms – at Ballpark Village, just east of Petco Park in downtown San Diego.
JMI Realty, the real estate company of Padres owner John Moores, said the move was brought on by the “current turbulence and uncertainty in the capital markets,” plus delays in getting city approvals for the project, which changed in scope at least twice.



Advertisement The hotel was set to endure intense scrutiny as one of the partners developing Ballpark Village is Lennar Corp. The city's downtown redevelopment authority is investigating all its projects for the past three years, especially ones involving Lennar and the Related Co., which had an undisclosed business relationship with former CCDC President Nancy Graham.
The Marriott project got mixed reviews from the community. Some liked the vibrancy they thought it would bring to the East Village, and some worried it would be a fortress that blocked views of the Coronado Bridge, worsened parking headaches and didn't do much for local merchants.

[Fusey]

Edit: Posted the same article a minute before me SDCAL.

No surprise on the Marriot. Just about everything is against it right now.

[good]

Any new information in addition to priot problems? Heard new lawsuit from Custom Windows.

[bmfarley]

Any new information in addition to priot problems? Heard new lawsuit from Custom Windows.
Yes, the Voice of San Diego (http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/) forwarded a piece saying the 1,929-room Marriot at the Ballpark Village is suspended (http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/articles/2008/08/29/this_just_in/718marriott082908.txt) due to conflict of interest with comeone at CCDC. Ex-CEO Nancy Graham apparently had business ties to Lennar development, which is a partner with JMI Reality or Marriot on the project.

Oooops!

Additionally, the CCDC General Counsel is resigning because she had economic ties to the same project.... she was a 25% owner of an Escondido law firm representing the developer in discussions with CCDC ....and while at CCDC she lead administerial/procedural things with that same project. She says she didn't know her law firm was involved in the project.

The developer, on the other hand, is saying the project is suspended due to economic conditions.

Pardon the cynicism in this, but even though the economy is struggling it seems convention activity in San Diego has been on an upswing. No? Am I wrong? Hurricane Katrina affected New Orleans as a convention destination.... and I thought those to host events had been looking elsewhere with San Diego a beneficiary at their expense. Now, another hurricane is bearing down on "The Big Easy".

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n71/farleybrandon/SD%20Bldg%20Pics/Marriot072308.jpg

[staplesla]

Is the Gaylord project still a go? I haven't heard about this in a while.

[PadreHomer]

Yes.
Yeah, I truly apologize. I thought about it and I'm an idiot :haha:

I wasn't thinking :koko:

[kpexpress]

What's up with the Satai? I thought that this project would be done by the time I returned back to San Diego. 707 Tenth Lofts look good.

[Derek]

Yeah, I truly apologize. I thought about it and I'm an idiot :haha:

I wasn't thinking :koko:



Don't be sorry! :jester:

[malsponger]

What's up with the Satai? I thought that this project would be done by the time I returned back to San Diego. 707 Tenth Lofts look good.

Looks to have been halted sometime ago. It's pitty too being it was so close to completion.

[kpexpress]

I was giving my buddy a ride home from the East Village over to Little Italy last night and we started talking about downtown developments and started driving around checking everything out.

Why is it sooo depressing to see the potential in downtown SD compared to what is ACTUALLY happening? Call me pessimistic, but WTF is up with this town?

Maybe I am naive in my attitude, cause I really haven't been here for very long and I do understand that a lot HAS happened in the last ten years, but am I the only one who feels that it seems nearly impossible to get a project off the ground and just as difficult to complete one?

I need everyones input to try to nail down the culprit causing these problems.

Soooo, what is it? Corruption, Fraud, Lack of Money, Economy, High Costs, Poor Planning?

Please weigh in.....

[Fusey]

Downtown San Diego is vastly different from even just five years ago. Hopefully when I fly back to the US in a couple of months I'll find pictures I took in 2003 around Petco and other buildings nearby while they were undergoing construction.

The biggest problem right now is that you can only build so many luxury condos. With the real estate market in hell right now, especially in San Diego, it's even more difficult to get financing.

The number of projects going up, though, is still quite impressive. When I lived in Sacramento hardly any of the major projects came close to getting constructed (ask any Sac forumer about The Towers and you'll get the idea). Downtown SD will get some good retail infill projects as residents move in over the next few years. Hopefully something big happens with projects planned along the waterfront. I can't tell you how many times I've walked by people getting off cruise ships and one of the first things they talk about are the giant parking lots at the terminal.

[mello]

This City ceases to amaze me with its ability to get every major project killed or drastically delayed due to its incompetence. Now some corruption scandal with CCDC has blocked what would have become an iconic anchor for the South End of the Skyline. Twin 500 footers..... GONE :hell: Do you realize what a blow that is to the image of our skyline?

I was really counting on these getting built. Library Tower and Cosmo Square are dust so we still have no real talls in that part of town. Hilton pussed out and only built a 30 floor tower instead of going for something special. Seriously I am this close to giving up on San Diego. Huge parking lots on the water front STILL!! In 2008. Where is Lane Field? Where is NBC? Lagging once again while the parking lots sit there collecting plastic bags.

No Chargers Stadium, no Gaylord... What is it with every big project in this County getting mired in bullsh*t. This is a major metropolitan area and we are acting like and getting results worthy of Boise, Shreveport, or Fresno. But hey atleast they have better airports then we do :haha:


So much potential wasted..... :yuck:

[staplesla]

I've been in San Diego for now 11 months. I've lived in New York City, Dallas, Nashville, and Heidelberg, Germany. NYC of course is always building, Dallas has 40+ high-rises going up at an incredible pace. Though we moved away from Dallas because of the heat, I'm impressed that Dallas sees the need to not only build up, but incorporate things that make living in the CBD great such as landscaped and larger walkways, monuments or statues scattered about, grand parks.

Yes San Diego has Balboa Park, but my spouse and I actually laughed when we looked at high-rise condos in downtown SD. Most of the streets are 100% concrete, too narrow, and are non-pedestrian friendly. And when you walk around there is really nothing special unless you are looking for a restaurant. It seemed to us that SD was more interested in building mid/high-rises instead of beautifying the city core and making the city more attractive. Instead there are just a bunch of concrete parking lots. We felt the quality of life should we have picked to live in downtown wouldn't have been all that so we purchased in La Jolla and rarely go downtown.

What irks me too is that it seems San Diegans are more passive than other cities when it comes to what they want or believe in. In NYC, Dallas, Nashville, etc., you have thousands of emails coming in regarding demands for this and that.....people really get involved. Having worked for the planning commission here, I can say that SD gets maybe 10-50 emails or letters per topic if that. People may complain on here, but are people contacting their representatives demanding action. I think the airport is a joke too, considering the level of tourists this area gets compared to most other U.S. cities. My gosh, Nashville and Oklahoma City have larger and grander airports. I just think it is a big miss considering what a larger airport, with more landing capacity situated elsewhere in the county would mean to this county's economy. It to me shows the lack of responsible leadership in this area.

[HurricaneHugo]

Random question....are there any food places open 24/7 in downtown?

Last sunday we went to On Broadway and after the club, we were really drunk and really hungry. So we went on a mission to find a place to eat. One hour later, we came empty handed and knocked out in my car. I know 7/11 is open, but that doesn't count.

[dl3000]

I've been in San Diego for now 11 months. I've lived in New York City, Dallas, Nashville, and Heidelberg, Germany. NYC of course is always building, Dallas has 40+ high-rises going up at an incredible pace. Though we moved away from Dallas because of the heat, I'm impressed that Dallas sees the need to not only build up, but incorporate things that make living in the CBD great such as landscaped and larger walkways, monuments or statues scattered about, grand parks.

Yes San Diego has Balboa Park, but my spouse and I actually laughed when we looked at high-rise condos in downtown SD. Most of the streets are 100% concrete, too narrow, and are non-pedestrian friendly. And when you walk around there is really nothing special unless you are looking for a restaurant. It seemed to us that SD was more interested in building mid/high-rises instead of beautifying the city core and making the city more attractive. Instead there are just a bunch of concrete parking lots. We felt the quality of life should we have picked to live in downtown wouldn't have been all that so we purchased in La Jolla and rarely go downtown.

What irks me too is that it seems San Diegans are more passive than other cities when it comes to what they want or believe in. In NYC, Dallas, Nashville, etc., you have thousands of emails coming in regarding demands for this and that.....people really get involved. Having worked for the planning commission here, I can say that SD gets maybe 10-50 emails or letters per topic if that. People may complain on here, but are people contacting their representatives demanding action. I think the airport is a joke too, considering the level of tourists this area gets compared to most other U.S. cities. My gosh, Nashville and Oklahoma City have larger and grander airports. I just think it is a big miss considering what a larger airport, with more landing capacity situated elsewhere in the county would mean to this county's economy. It to me shows the lack of responsible leadership in this area.

I think the reason beautification is minimal is because of lack of funding available. Also I think most citizens are disillusioned by the city as a whole ever since the pension corruption came about.

[kpexpress]

anyone have a link to the news article explaining this "corruption" scandal?

[Marina_Guy]

I think the reason beautification is minimal is because of lack of funding available. Also I think most citizens are disillusioned by the city as a whole ever since the pension corruption came about.
That is bunk. There is a ton of money in the redevelopment budget for beautification. Instead the redevelopment agency spends 10+ million on a bridge, 17+ million on the quiet zone (anyone know how ugly that is going to make the rail crossings look?)... Tell me that 27 million would not get us some great parks and improved sidewalks. I think the redevelopment agency (CCDC) is not spending money in the right places.

Please attend the 9/11/08 meeting to tell the Board of CCDC what you want in a new President. Don't let the conspiracy theorists out there run that show.

And has this agency ever thought about a program to recruit retail into downtown???

Thank you.

[Derek]

Random question....are there any food places open 24/7 in downtown?

Last sunday we went to On Broadway and after the club, we were really drunk and really hungry. So we went on a mission to find a place to eat. One hour later, we came empty handed and knocked out in my car. I know 7/11 is open, but that doesn't count.

I liked your two-thousandth post. :P



There has to be a place somewhere thats open all night.

[bmfarley]

That is bunk. There is a ton of money in the redevelopment budget for beautification. Instead the redevelopment agency spends 10+ million on a bridge, 17+ million on the quiet zone (anyone know how ugly that is going to make the rail crossings look?)... Tell me that 27 million would not get us some great parks and improved sidewalks. I think the redevelopment agency (CCDC) is not spending money in the right places.

Please attend the 9/11/08 meeting to tell the Board of CCDC what you want in a new President. Don't let the conspiracy theorists out there run that show.

And has this agency ever thought about a program to recruit retail into downtown???

Thank you.
You somehow you missed the news that a pedestrian bridge, or tunnel, is required if the City wants to re-open 8th Avenue to Harbor. It was closed due to Petco Park and PUC concerns about perdestrian crowds across heavy rail and light-rail tracks... 4 in all I believe.

Downtown San Diego deserves something iconic.

The alternatives you suggested are really not alternatives at all. Additionally, I do not support additional homeless encampments that parks provide.

[staplesla]

You somehow you missed the news that a pedestrian bridge, or tunnel, is required if the City wants to re-open 8th Avenue to Harbor. It was closed due to Petco Park and PUC concerns about perdestrian crowds across heavy rail and light-rail tracks... 4 in all I believe.

Downtown San Diego deserves something iconic.

The alternatives you suggested are really not alternatives at all. Additionally, I do not support additional homeless encampments that parks provide.

So you don't want to build more parks and beautify the city because it will attract more homeless individuals? That's ridiculous. Why don't our leaders enforce the laws and do something about the homeless and take what few parks we have back and build more.

And one iconic bridge is great for the Petco Park/Convention area, but does little for the rest of downtown.

[Marina_Guy]

So you don't want to build more parks and beautify the city because it will attract more homeless individuals? That's ridiculous. Why don't our leaders enforce the laws and do something about the homeless and take what few parks we have back and build more.

And one iconic bridge is great for the Petco Park/Convention area, but does little for the rest of downtown.

While the bridge is a nicety... it really will benefit the Hilton Hotel. Here is another example of tax increment funds being used to help the visitor industry. I'm at least happy that some funds from other agencies were found to 'partially' offset the total cost of the project.

Parks need to be better designed so they are friendly to EVERYONE. The parks we have now are not 'activated' There is none or very little retail (coffee shops, etc) that get people to sit and be the 'eyes' of the park. The homeless are an issue, but why should my quality of life be sacrificed because we don't want to deal with the homeless. The homeless issue is a HUGE failure of CITY AND COUNTY Government. Other cities are doing a better job than SD. We just ignore the problem.

[Marina_Guy]

You somehow you missed the news that a pedestrian bridge, or tunnel, is required if the City wants to re-open 8th Avenue to Harbor. It was closed due to Petco Park and PUC concerns about perdestrian crowds across heavy rail and light-rail tracks... 4 in all I believe.

Downtown San Diego deserves something iconic.

The alternatives you suggested are really not alternatives at all. Additionally, I do not support additional homeless encampments that parks provide.

Excuse me, but, I do understand why the bridge is needed and I think we are now in season 4 of the Padres downtown and there still is NO bridge. I understand it is now 'under construction' I am just concerned that the allocation of finite redevelopment funds are not optimum to improve downtown. We need to spend monies on Parks, public art, improved transportation systems, libraries, recreational facilities, etc and I don't see a clear plan for these. The money is there.

[keg92101]

Random question....are there any food places open 24/7 in downtown?

Last sunday we went to On Broadway and after the club, we were really drunk and really hungry. So we went on a mission to find a place to eat. One hour later, we came empty handed and knocked out in my car. I know 7/11 is open, but that doesn't count.

Brians' Eatery on 6th & F is open 24 hours on Friday & Saturday.

[staplesla]

Excuse me, but, I do understand why the bridge is needed and I think we are now in season 4 of the Padres downtown and there still is NO bridge. I understand it is now 'under construction' I am just concerned that the allocation of finite redevelopment funds are not optimum to improve downtown. We need to spend monies on Parks, public art, improved transportation systems, libraries, recreational facilities, etc and I don't see a clear plan for these. The money is there.

BTW, the bridge is not under construction yet. The ground breaking was pushed back for reasons that have not been announced. I just received an email stating the "ground breaking will be announced at a future date."

To your other points, you are absolutely correct. But people need to email their representatives, or contact the media and demand change or nothing will change. Posting on here does little to influence change.

[kpexpress]

So you don't want to build more parks and beautify the city because it will attract more homeless individuals? That's ridiculous. Why don't our leaders enforce the laws and do something about the homeless and take what few parks we have back and build more.

And one iconic bridge is great for the Petco Park/Convention area, but does little for the rest of downtown.

East Village is the fastest growing neighborhood in all of downtown with more housing developments planned than any other neighborhood. As for now, any East Village resident (Me included) must walk down to 5th Ave and cross the hundred plus stairs to get over the convention center in order to access the bay. As for downtown moving forward (considering that most residential developments ARE in the EV) the bridge will do wonders for Downtown.

Developments occupying the Bay Front of San Diego is like the Berlin Wall. I seriously inhibits residents access to the bay.

To quote Rob Quigley, "San Diego really never TOUCHES the bay like cities such as Seattle or SF do." Ever since the Port Authority held a design competition for redevelopment of the tuna harbor between USS Midway and Seaport Village, they have acted like they never saw what Rob designed (and won) for the competition.

http://www.robquigley.com/planning.html# historic harbor front

http://www.robquigley.com/NewFiles/harborfront%2003.jpg

[bmfarley]

So you don't want to build more parks and beautify the city because it will attract more homeless individuals? That's ridiculous. Why don't our leaders enforce the laws and do something about the homeless and take what few parks we have back and build more.

And one iconic bridge is great for the Petco Park/Convention area, but does little for the rest of downtown.

You missed the point. But maybe it is my fault.

The City needs to do something at 8th and Harbor if it wants to re-open 8th Avenue. The choices involve doing something iconic, maybe a tunnel, or something cheap that would likely not be iconic and likley be very ugly.

Would you rather have something like the pedestrian overpass currently over I-5 near City College? Or like the one over I-5 near Mission Hills and Palm Street?

I think it's an easy decision; spend the money on a nice iconic bidge. It's also in a very visible location.

Assuming limited financial resources.... absolutely I would choose to put it toward a bridge than a homeless park.

[bmfarley]

Excuse me, but, I do understand why the bridge is needed and I think we are now in season 4 of the Padres downtown and there still is NO bridge. I understand it is now 'under construction' I am just concerned that the allocation of finite redevelopment funds are not optimum to improve downtown. We need to spend monies on Parks, public art, improved transportation systems, libraries, recreational facilities, etc and I don't see a clear plan for these. The money is there.I agree on most of what you say. But I disagreed with your initial premise pitting the pedestrian bridge against parks. The ped bridge... for better or worse, is a necessity/requirement while parks are an amenity.

Ideally, I'd like to see additional cultural things downtown too... .ones with nominal maintenance costs yet bring 'place setting' ability and value.

[Marina_Guy]

I agree on most of what you say. But I disagreed with your initial premise pitting the pedestrian bridge against parks. The ped bridge... for better or worse, is a necessity/requirement while parks are an amenity.

Ideally, I'd like to see additional cultural things downtown too... .ones with nominal maintenance costs yet bring 'place setting' ability and value.


Agreed. And I am not anti-bridge, and my writings suggest such. I would have loved to see a Calatrava Bridge there. And anyone who knows me can confirm how much I hate having the bay blocked.

I am a huge supporter of urban areas and all the good things they bring... San Diego is not there and I don't see a path either. Let's spend our limited dollars wisely and get those iconic structures as well.

We do need to let our representatives know how we feel or NOTHING will get done.

[Fusey]

San Diego is not there and I don't see a path either.

As mentioned earlier, downtown needs a lot more retail. When I lived in SD I only went downtown to drink/dine or catch a Padres game. I would have lived downtown had there been at least a Target I could walk to.

[staplesla]

You missed the point. But maybe it is my fault.

The City needs to do something at 8th and Harbor if it wants to re-open 8th Avenue. The choices involve doing something iconic, maybe a tunnel, or something cheap that would likely not be iconic and likley be very ugly.

Would you rather have something like the pedestrian overpass currently over I-5 near City College? Or like the one over I-5 near Mission Hills and Palm Street?

I think it's an easy decision; spend the money on a nice iconic bidge. It's also in a very visible location.

Assuming limited financial resources.... absolutely I would choose to put it toward a bridge than a homeless park.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear as well. I'm all for the bridge and I think the design looks great. Just after having lived in NYC, Germany, Nashville, and Dallas I can say that downtown San Diego offers the least when it comes to overall "quality of life." I think there are smaller projects that cost less, that in the long run will make a greater impact on downtown as a whole.

[malsponger]

How about just digging a trench and capping it for the train? Expensive but well worth it. The train is such an annoyance. And happens to be at just about the worst location. What a great city San Diego has turned out to be. Some real smart people doing the planning back in the day.

Build the train track and convention center to separate downtown from the waterfront.

Build the five to separate downtown from Balboa Park.

I love San Diego but it has so much potential to be so much better.

[bmfarley]

How about just digging a trench and capping it for the train? Expensive but well worth it. The train is such an annoyance. And happens to be at just about the worst location. What a great city San Diego has turned out to be. Some real smart people doing the planning back in the day.

Build the train track and convention center to separate downtown from the waterfront.

Build the five to separate downtown from Balboa Park.

I love San Diego but it has so much potential to be so much better.

I sorta agree with you about the tracks, but you should understand that trains have been there for over 100 years. Downtown and trains grew up together and unfortunately for local officials... there is not much that can be done to remove them altogether or reduce their footprint. And the owner and lease holder of the right-of-way have all the cards. Local officials have little influence over track activity. Or for that matter... the train horns.

On the other hand, the city or CCDC did do a light feasibility study of doing almost exactly what you suggested about 10-20 years ago.... constructing a trench for heavy rail. Because of the necessary grade requirements and impacts to cross streets... the distance would be quite substantial.... over 2 miles as I recall. The cost... at the time was as high as $300 million. Maybe $500 million. What would it be today??? Perhaps over $1 billion! I don't know.

Despite that I do not think all is lost due to the cost and financial ability of the city. On the horizon is Proposition 1.... a measure to develop a statewide high-speed rail system. The southern most terminus is at Downtown San Diego's Santa Fe Depot. High speed rail cannot be at-grade... so will need to be grade separated; above or below steet level. For the life of me I cannot imagine an airial structure would be palatable to powers that be and below grade will have to be the answer. Or nothing at all. Therefore, I believe it is possible that HSR could be the seed to get the heavy rail stuff below grade. But, I would assume there would have to be some local funding participation.

I am obviously voting yes on Proposition 1... just look at that little picture to the left of my username. So, if you want heavy rail below grade to happen to... one way that could make it so would be to vote yes on Proposition 1A.

[bmfarley]

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear as well. I'm all for the bridge and I think the design looks great. Just after having lived in NYC, Germany, Nashville, and Dallas I can say that downtown San Diego offers the least when it comes to overall "quality of life." I think there are smaller projects that cost less, that in the long run will make a greater impact on downtown as a whole.I like fountains and scupures.... stuff to look at and are active and cool.

[HurricaneHugo]

as if HSR will ever come to san diego...

[Marina_Guy]

I like fountains and scupures.... stuff to look at and are active and cool.
If you like Fountains, please go the Gaslamp Quarter's Design Charette Fraud. The GQA is trying to shut down the dancing waters fountain near the Tin Fish. They claim it is a liability because it is too expensive to maintain. I love this fountain and I think monies can be found to fix it and properly maintain it in the future. There are Clean and Safe funds to maintain and I think the Redevelopment Agency and the City can find some funds to fix it.

The GQA wants to 'reprogram' this park so it is more 'event' friendly... in other words use it for corporate parties with white tents that ordinary folks aren't eligible to attend.

[staplesla]

as if HSR will ever come to san diego...

Why do you think it won't come?

[kpexpress]

Is that why those fountains in front of Tin Fish are always gated off? That is horrible! Salt Lake City has seen an extreme explosion of development and excitment from the Gateway Outdoor Mall built recently on the west side (used to be dangerous place that was not at all desirable) The outdoor fountians attract hundreds of families to come out and take in the urban atmosphere and spend money while they do it.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/2710468828_54c6d46bb1_b.jpg

My wife and I always thought it was gated off due to the risk of homeless people bathing in it.

[Marina_Guy]

Is that why those fountains in front of Tin Fish are always gated off? That is horrible! Salt Lake City has seen an extreme explosion of development and excitment from the Gateway Outdoor Mall built recently on the west side (used to be dangerous place that was not at all desirable) The outdoor fountians attract hundreds of families to come out and take in the urban atmosphere and spend money while they do it.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/2710468828_54c6d46bb1_b.jpg

My wife and I always thought it was gated off due to the risk of homeless people bathing in it.
Thanks for the picture... No it is just that it is not properly maintained. It is a great fountain and asset to downtown. Save the fountain!!

[sandiego_urban]

If you like Fountains, please go the Gaslamp Quarter's Design Charette Fraud. The GQA is trying to shut down the dancing waters fountain near the Tin Fish. They claim it is a liability because it is too expensive to maintain.
It's too bad about that fountain. I always thought it made nice entry into the Gaslamp.

I'm all for the bridge and I think the design looks great. Just after having lived in NYC, Germany, Nashville, and Dallas I can say that downtown San Diego offers the least when it comes to overall "quality of life."
Are Downtown Nashville and Downtown Dallas that much better now? Last time I was in both, neither downtowns seemed very vibrant outside of the 9 to 5. DT Dallas was pretty much a ghost town, except for the West End area which reallyd didn't impress me. The Reunion Tower is meh.

The only thing I remember about Downtown Nashville is the Batman Tower :)

[kpexpress]

Gaslamp fountain could look more like the above pic if there were affordable (safe and desirable) housing for families downtown. When is TOO many luxury condos TOO much? Shouldn't there be an area that is attractive for families to move downtown? And a good public school system to handle the families.

[sandiego_urban]

Just some shots from this past weekend -

Sapphire and Bayside as seen from Harbor Island
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_6795.jpg

Vantage Pointe is helping to fill in the gap
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_6799.jpg

Sapphire and Bayside stand tall from the Embarcadero curve
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_6803.jpg

From Harbor Drive
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_6805.jpg

From Broadway
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_6812.jpg

Skyline from the Coronado Bay Bridge, Imagine how it would look with a few 600 & 700 footers breaking the level plane.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_6834.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_6836.jpg

From the Ferry Landing (The new Hilton makes the skyline much wider, that I can't fit in one shot anymore)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_6869-1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_6868-1.jpg

Hilton
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_6855.jpg

Vantage Pointe under construction
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_6857.jpg

The illusion of "Stepping down" to the water, but we know which buildings are taller, right?
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_6856.jpg

[sandiego_urban]

What do think the likelihood is of this project going through? I say zero to none. One can dream, though.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/Original.jpg

http://weblog.signonsandiego.com/news/breaking/2008/09/port_will_appeal_ruling_on_dec.html

[staplesla]

It's too bad about that fountain. I always thought it made nice entry into the Gaslamp.


Are Downtown Nashville and Downtown Dallas that much better now? Last time I was in both, neither downtowns seemed very vibrant outside of the 9 to 5. DT Dallas was pretty much a ghost town, except for the West End area which reallyd didn't impress me. The Reunion Tower is meh.

The only thing I remember about Downtown Nashville is the Batman Tower :)

Since 2004 43 highrises have gone up, mainly in the Uptown region. Dallas has also done a really good job of connecting the areas with walkable, landscaped areas, fountains, a few signature entrances to different areas such as the Oaklawn tower which is basically an oblisk with plantings and is lit up at night. The freeway is being decked over right now as well to link downtown and uptown. Here is a link to that - http://www.wrpproject.com/swf/main.htm. The expansion and beautification of the Katy Trail has added a lot and thousands run on it daily - http://www.katytraildallas.org. Downtown Dallas in the 1990's was a scary place to be at night, but has really changed.

As for Nashville, the Nashville Gulch has really added to the vibrant night-life and SoBro (South of Broadway) is really expanding since the addition of the park next to the new Symphony Hall.

The Dallas city council requires each new developer to add a certain amount of green space to the area and it must include public art, fountains, or landscaping. It has really made a difference.

Dallas and Nashville certainly have their own issues. All I'm saying is that at least they have a vision laid out when developers come forward for the necessary permits. Developers are required to adhere to the green-spacing aspects.

I've included some images of the "gateways" as Dallas calls them as examples of what I'm referenced.

Oaklawn Gateway
http://www.oaklawncommittee.org/images/Gateway_jpg.jpg

Woodal Rogers Park
http://urbandallas.us/images/woodalrogerspark.jpg

[stockjock]

Not sure if you guys caught this article about Vantage Pointe on voiceofsandiego.com, but if not, here it is. Even a few quotes from yours truly, for what little that's worth:

http://voiceofsandiego.org/articles/2008/09/05/news/vantagepointe090508.txt

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/content/articles/2008/09/05/news/vantagepointe090508-full.jpg

[Derek]

What do think the likelihood is of this project going through? I say zero to none. One can dream, though.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/Original.jpg

http://weblog.signonsandiego.com/news/breaking/2008/09/port_will_appeal_ruling_on_dec.html

San Francisco, Seattle, Vancouver, Miami? Of course it's going to happen there.



San Diego? Not a chance.

[kpexpress]

As I was heading up Broadway this evening I saw quite a large project that just got underway, but I have never heard of it and it isn't listed on CCDC. It is next to the sunrise apartment complex on Broadway and 16th street. Does anyone have any info on it?

[HurricaneHugo]

Why do you think it won't come?

Because the state will pay for SF's and LA's little toys, the project is going to be delayed numerous time and it's going to go WAY over budget. Then they're going to tell SD and SAC, "Oh, no money for you, too bad!" And thus SD and SAC get shafted once again in favor of SF and LA.

[SDCAL]

Because the state will pay for SF's and LA's little toys, the project is going to be delayed numerous time and it's going to go WAY over budget. Then they're going to tell SD and SAC, "Oh, no money for you, too bad!" And thus SD and SAC get shafted once again in favor of SF and LA.

EXACTLY this is what I have been saying all along and why I will vote no on the HSR proposition

They took the San Diego route out of the first phase and put wording in the plan that SD and Sac lines are dependant on the "profitability" of the LA-SF line.

What a joke. They just want to string us along so OUR tax money will bennefit LA and SF, it's not right

If they are going to collect taxes from SD and Sacramento residents and NOT use our money to build anything here they can go to hell.

Why should WE contribute our hard earned funds for a project that will bennefit LA and SF and have our turn not even be guaranteed

Hell, I would rather pay taxes to get the library off the ground than to beef up infrastructure that won't even be part of SD County

RIP OFF!!