SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 [Archive] - Page 144

Will O' Wisp

Jul 19, 2019, 5:04 AM

The classic, “no offense....but”, similar to “I’m sorry, but”. :yuck:
Pretty arrogant and dick post Will O' Wisp.

staplesla: thanks for trying to get some info on this project.

I was going to just let this die off, but if you want to call me out that that I'll be more blunt. Trying to pressure someone into to saying something they don't want to say is inappropriate in any situation. When a public facing figure says "no comment" or "that's all I'm going to comment", that means they aren't going to say anything further on the subject. If they hang up on you after you continue to press them it's not because you've uncovered some dark secret, it's because you're being rude.

This sort of behavior is why I can't really meet with the public anymore, and that's a real loss because I love sharing what I do with people. I'd rather not see it celebrated here.

staplesla: I appreciate you trying to get info on this project, and getting an official statement for us (such as it is). I wouldn't read you getting hung up on afterwords as anything more than you getting a little overaggressive in your questioning.

SDfan

Jul 19, 2019, 3:33 PM

I don't think it's rude to ask a follow up question after a "no comment" response. If we let every conversation die off after "no comment" then we'd be giving folks an easy out to any inquiry. It's not rude, and "no comment" is not an end all to any question.

If you can't handle meeting with the public, can't handle answering questions, don't work in public facing positions, especially if you're a fukcing VP of Comms :haha:

tdavis

Jul 19, 2019, 11:17 PM

I was going to just let this die off, but if you want to call me out that that I'll be more blunt. Trying to pressure someone into to saying something they don't want to say is inappropriate in any situation. When a public facing figure says "no comment" or "that's all I'm going to comment", that means they aren't going to say anything further on the subject. If they hang up on you after you continue to press them it's not because you've uncovered some dark secret, it's because you're being rude.

This sort of behavior is why I can't really meet with the public anymore, and that's a real loss because I love sharing what I do with people. I'd rather not see it celebrated here.

staplesla: I appreciate you trying to get info on this project, and getting an official statement for us (such as it is). I wouldn't read you getting hung up on afterwords as anything more than you getting a little overaggressive in your questioning.

Your post makes absolutely no sense. What do you mean by “This sort of behavior is why I can't really meet with the public anymore“?

What type of behavior? He posed a question to the communications VP. That’s her job, to answer questions. And what is your beef with staplesla? You keep insinuating that his posing a question is “rude” or “over aggressive”; yet the only hostile behavior I’ve seen on this forum has come from you, Will O' Wisp (not just this case, but others as well).

SDCAL

Jul 20, 2019, 2:56 AM

I was going to just let this die off, but if you want to call me out that that I'll be more blunt. Trying to pressure someone into to saying something they don't want to say is inappropriate in any situation. When a public facing figure says "no comment" or "that's all I'm going to comment", that means they aren't going to say anything further on the subject. If they hang up on you after you continue to press them it's not because you've uncovered some dark secret, it's because you're being rude.

This sort of behavior is why I can't really meet with the public anymore, and that's a real loss because I love sharing what I do with people. I'd rather not see it celebrated here.

staplesla: I appreciate you trying to get info on this project, and getting an official statement for us (such as it is). I wouldn't read you getting hung up on afterwords as anything more than you getting a little overaggressive in your questioning.

Quite frankly, I’m sick and tired of arrogant developers thinking members of the community are too dumb or unimportant to know what’s going on with these projects, and your post epitomizes that arrogance.

I own a condo downtown and it’s not a crime to try and get information about surrounding development in my community.

If anything, I think straplesa was kinder than I would have been after being hung up on for asking perfectly reasonable questions. Manchester gave timelines and now they aren’t meeting them. Hopefully a reporter that’s more persistent and aggressive will go visit the rude woman who said no comment and hung-up and find out the truth so the public can know what’s really up with this major project that has a large impact on our community.

And while they’re at it, they should visit Cisterra and find out what’s up w/ 7th/Market!

JerellO

Jul 20, 2019, 8:17 AM

......um.... can you guys take it to the DMs??? Lol

Nv_2897

Jul 21, 2019, 5:29 AM

anna oop

staplesla

Jul 21, 2019, 2:04 PM

Cubic Corp., one of San Diego’s oldest publicly traded companies, operated for years as a collection of separate small businesses — mainly in defense and public transit fare technologies — all working independently.

But since 2012, Chief Executive Bradley Feldmann has been working to modernize and bring together Cubic’s myriad businesses under one umbrella in an initiative dubbed One Cubic.

It started by getting everyone to use the same software systems. It later evolved into sharing engineering talent across product lines.

Now the company, perhaps best known as the provider of the Top Gun fighter pilot training system, is making another move in its One Cubic strategy. On Tuesday, Cubic executives and city officials held a groundbreaking for two new headquarters buildings on the company’s Kearny Mesa campus.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/technology/story/2019-07-16/cubic-corp-to-expand-footprint-in-san-diego-with-new-100m-global-headquarters

Will O' Wisp

Jul 22, 2019, 12:22 AM

......um.... can you guys take it to the DMs??? Lol

The conversation has run its course and its pretty clear we aren't going to see eye to eye on this. For the benefit of the thread, I vote we just agree to disagree.

Seaport San Diego tower is like nothing else on California’s coast. That’s the problem (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/story/2019-07-19/seaport-san-diego-tower-is-like-nothing-else-on-californias-coast-thats-the-problem)

A proposed observation tower at the edge of Pacific Highway is a polarizing symbol of change that could make or break the larger, $2.4 billion redevelopment effort planned for downtown’s Central Embarcadero.

In some circles there is a sense that San Diego is missing an internationally recognizable calling card, as in a postcard-worthy — or in today’s vernacular, Instagrammable — destination that shouts, “Visit me.” The cylindrical tower with a cinched waist that is being touted as the high-flying replacement to a flat-by-comparison Seaport Village could change that.

That is, if California allows it.

Interesting article on the political dynamics of the Seaport Village redo. IMO the concerns about passing with the Coastal Commission are a little bit overblown. The CC hasn't formally looked at the project, so they don't really have a clear idea of what it is yet. And when they do they're going to see a project that dedicates a greater amount of space to the public than the area does now, is more accessible to the public at large (vs the current "tourist trap" that discourages locals), and is wildly supported by the citizens of San Diego.

At marathon meeting, North County leaders’ transit plan concerns addressed (https://www.thecoastnews.com/at-marathon-meeting-north-county-leaders-transit-plan-concerns-addressed/)

It was over a week after the Fourth of July, but fireworks erupted at a July 12 marathon 4.5-hour San Diego Association of Governments meeting about the future of the San Diego County mass transit system.

The group of county leaders convened to discuss the “5 Big Moves,” SANDAG’s vision to create a new-aged public transportation system in the name of rolling back traffic congestion and tackling climate change. And the meeting ended with some of the concerns addressed about the plan, which North County leaders have raised for months.

I've posted a few times about the turmoil at SANDAG. Well the whole thing came to a head on Friday after County Supervisors Desmond and Gaspar successfully brought forward a motion for a formal review of the "5 Big Moves" to the SANDAG board. While some seem to interpret the survival of the 5 Big Moves as a major victory for transit (https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/politics/transit-opponents-fail-to-force-sandag-to-reverse-course/), the reality is Desmond and Gaspar got almost everything they asked for. Under a motion from Mayor Falconer the new regional plan will prioritize corridors in North/East county that are unfunded under the current plan, will include significant highway improvements, and shifts focus from redoing SD's entire transportation network to just coming up with something that satisfies CA state environmental law.

Gaspar narrowly lost a motion to forbid the study of converting general purpose highway lanes and local roads into toll lanes, mainly on the pleas of Ikhrata that it might be the only way to fund improvements if tax increases fail with the voters. She and some other North/East county leaders are still keeping up the pressure to get it off the table.

Streamliner

Jul 22, 2019, 4:40 PM

Interesting article on the political dynamics of the Seaport Village redo. IMO the concerns about passing with the Coastal Commission are a little bit overblown. The CC hasn't formally looked at the project, so they don't really have a clear idea of what it is yet. And when they do they're going to see a project that dedicates a greater amount of space to the public than the area does now, is more accessible to the public at large (vs the current "tourist trap" that discourages locals), and is wildly supported by the citizens of San Diego.

I agree that the CCC issue is a bit overblown. I think the question about public access is valid, and would be an easy fix if it's really an issue. Also, the concern about "bulk and scale" seems a little silly given its context within Downtown San Diego. Either way, that's a long way off and there's a lot of changes to the plans that will happen in the meantime.

My main gripe about the Seaport Village plan is (surprise, surprise), the height of the observation tower. I think an iconic tower designed by BIG should at least be taller than the nearly 30-year old Hyatt next door. I know the height limit issue has been discussed to death, but I like to daydream.

202_Cyclist

Jul 22, 2019, 5:28 PM

Airport will reach capacity around '35
Officials revised original passenger, flight forecasts after unprecedented surge in landings and takeoffs in recent years

The San Diego Union Tribune
July 20, 2019

“After experiencing unprecedented passenger growth in recent years, San Diego International Airport is now expected to reach its full capacity of takeoffs and landings three decades from now - years earlier than originally forecast.

A new forecast, released Friday, comes as the San Diego Regional Airport Authority finalizes plans for a $3 billion redevelopment project that includes an expansion of gates at the increasingly busy - and aging - Terminal 1.

Where airport officials originally expected aircraft operations to max out well beyond 2050, newly revised calculations show that coming much sooner, with 280,000 annual takeoffs and landings predicted as early as 2035. In an older, now outdated forecast, that threshold would not have been reached until 12 years later. Maximum capacity of the single-runway airport is 290,000 aircraft operations annually…”

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/story/2019-07-20/san-diego-airport-will-reach-capacity-of-40-million-passengers-years-sooner-than-originally-forecast

superfishy

Jul 22, 2019, 8:31 PM

Streamliner

Jul 23, 2019, 3:03 PM

I know the topic of the airport and the associated downtown height limit gets brought up a lot here, so sorry, but would how feasible is it for the height limit of the southern half of East Village to be changed? Is this at all possible, or are the regulations so concrete that it would be futile to attempt to change the limits through legislation or something?

Will o' Wisp summarized this issue very well a few months back. Refer to some of his previous posts (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=8539608&postcount=14138)

Will O' Wisp

Jul 23, 2019, 11:54 PM

^I'll just add that while it is technically feasible to have the height limit increased at the state level, all the parties with actual authority over the issue have little incentive to change things. The current limit was the result of a decades long negotiation between the city, Caltrans, and the FAA between the late 60s and the early 90s. The city fought for every inch of height it could have for downtown and at this point the FAA and Caltrans have shown very little interest in changing things.

The only city in the US that has taller buildings in close proximity to its airport is Boston, and that's only because they're the ones who started this whole mess in the first place by building a 700'+ skyscraper less than four miles from their airport in the 60s. So while it would be theoretically possible to have the regulations changed through a CA state assembly bill, and I believe it would be safe based on international experience, the chances of it happening are exceedingly unlikely.

@Streamliner: I know, but at least there's a silver lining. No one's going to take the "setting a precedent for skyscrapers on the coast" argument seriously when there's a tower just a foot shorter next door.

@202_Cyclist: I personally tend to place KSAN's capacity limit at ~45 million or more rather than 40 million, but I'm an optimist :)

HurricaneHugo

Jul 24, 2019, 7:24 AM

Streamliner

Jul 25, 2019, 3:19 PM

Story on the Pinnacle Pacific Heights project on the front page of the Union-Tribune website today:

San Diego apartment complex with separate low-income building denied approval

July 25, 2019

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/e71b2ba/2147483647/strip/true/crop/682x647+0+0/resize/840x797!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fca-times.brightspotcdn.com%2Ffa%2F0d%2Fa2ff39f641f29ddd80eeb220eb0f%2Fpacific-heights-3.png

An East Village apartment complex that calls for housing low-income renters in a separate building was not approved Wednesday by a downtown planning agency amid concerns that it felt like segregation.

The proposal from Vancouver-based Pinnacle International is a complex known as Pinnacle Pacific Heights that includes a 32-story building for market-rate renters and an adjacent eight-story building for 58 rent-restricted units. Poorer renters would not have access to a 32nd floor roofdeck or pool on the market-rate side, and would have to enter the building in a separate entrance. The market-rate tower, which would be located between A and B streets on 11th Avenue, proposes a total of 387 housing units.

Board members of Civic San Diego, which considered the project Wednesday, were critical of Pinnacle’s plan for separating the two classes of residents. The board stopped short of denying the project outright and instead sent it back to a lower committee to be heard in September, opening the door to reconsideration by the full board in the fall.

“This is segregation at its finest,” said board member Robert Robinson. “The design is bad. This is wrong. Who is paying who to do this kind of stuff?” Robinson, who is African-American, said he knows what it is like to feel segregated against and that the Pinnacle project reminded him of the old Jim Crow laws in the South.

...

Pinnacle’s proposal for low-income housing was crafted as part of a “density bonus” program that allows it to build more units within three separate towers it wants to construct downtown as long as it builds the affordable units within one mile of its project. Pinnacle has proposed constructing one building in the Columbia district and two others in East Village.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/real-estate/story/2019-07-24/san-diego-apartment-complex-with-separate-low-income-building-denied-approval

Hopefully they resubmit with a better design. This one never wowed me.

spoonman

Jul 25, 2019, 7:50 PM

Now it's not enough the get brand new, subsidized housing in a prime location in the city. Now it has to be Luxe housing so the people living on the taxpayer dime can emulate the lifestyle of those paying top dollar for these condos.

Any why is it racial segregation. Is it largely minorities living on the taxpayer dole??

Will O' Wisp

Jul 26, 2019, 12:12 AM

^Counterpoint to this: There are a ton of different ways Pinnacle could have chosen to differentiate their affordable rate housing from their market rate, and they insisted on using they most petty and condescending option of literally slicing the building in two. Pinnacle could just as easily have limited residents in the affordable section of the building from using the taller elevators in the market rate section to get up to the pool/roofdeck, put a lock on the roof that only the market rate residents have a key to, even makes access to it an opt in feature residents need to pay for. They could have done any of these things to reserve use of certain amenities for the higher paying residents, none of which would even need to be mentioned on the application to Civic, but instead Pinnacle deliberately chose to put up a wall between the two sides just to avoid the spectacle of one of their luxury customers (gasp!) seeing a poor person in the lobby.

Steadfast

Jul 26, 2019, 6:26 AM

^
Agreed. This proposal is lazy & offensive.
There are much better examples of successful mixed-income housing they could have used as reference. The developers home town of Vancouver is full of them...
IMO, it's right for the city to demand better.

Nerv

Jul 27, 2019, 8:07 PM

Have any of you guys heard of this?

The trolley planning to extend somehow into Tijuana?

The article is in spanish. Not sure how it would work

http://sintesistv.com.mx/trolley-de-san-diego-cruzara-pasajeros-a-tijuana/?fbclid=IwAR2rZg32S1X35gH-I0ncHFSQtjPYZFwMXBJZ6edUTd0FrF850XJ4tAHIelU

The Purple Line is a future San Diego Trolley line proposed by SANDAG, that would run from San Ysidro Transit Center at the United States–Mexico border to Kearny Mesa with a possible extension to Carmel Valley. It would run along, or close to I-805 and I-15. Most of the proposed station locations are currently served by Rapid routes 225 and 235.

If you’re ever suggesting that the US side would pay for a trolley into Mexico good luck with that. I’m sure Mexico could build their own trolley line into their country with some sort of US connection (maybe) as far as the line goes after they enter the US. The purple line is old news though and there are several extensions I think will get built first. My gut feeling is we may finally get some news in the near future on the airport link of some sorts. Also the Balboa link is still in play. Anything doing with Mexico these days though is influenced by our current state of politics in this country. That’s about the most neutral way I could think of saying that. :uhh:

I’m happy just to get the UTC section knocked off here soon...:tup:

Steadfast

Jul 28, 2019, 6:38 AM

Looks like we might be getting our own mini version of The Row DTLA... Which would be great.
http://www.sdnews.com/view/full_story/27572241/article-New-design-concept-planned-at-former-Midway-Post-Office?instance=most_popular1

Streamliner

Jul 29, 2019, 4:42 PM

The Purple Line is a future San Diego Trolley line proposed by SANDAG, that would run from San Ysidro Transit Center at the United States–Mexico border to Kearny Mesa with a possible extension to Carmel Valley. It would run along, or close to I-805 and I-15. Most of the proposed station locations are currently served by Rapid routes 225 and 235.

If you’re ever suggesting that the US side would pay for a trolley into Mexico good luck with that. I’m sure Mexico could build their own trolley line into their country with some sort of US connection (maybe) as far as the line goes after they enter the US. The purple line is old news though and there are several extensions I think will get built first. My gut feeling is we may finally get some news in the near future on the airport link of some sorts. Also the Balboa link is still in play. Anything doing with Mexico these days though is influenced by our current state of politics in this country. That’s about the most neutral way I could think of saying that. :uhh:

I’m happy just to get the UTC section knocked off here soon...:tup:

Agreed. There's no way MTS would build the Trolley into Mexico. This is probably just a rumor that got out of hand. There's no practical need for it anyway. People would still have to go through customs, etc. before entering the train that would enter the U.S. At that point, there's no difference between that and the existing infrastructure. The Trolley stops just feet from the border.

Ideally Tijuana would set up its own Metro line that would take visitors/locals from the Mexico side of the border to the Zona Norte, beaches, Airport, Zona Rio, residential neighborhoods/employment centers, or even Rosarito. That would be a better use of resources. I think they're setting up (have set up?) a BRT line along the Tijuana River, which is a good start.

HurricaneHugo

Jul 29, 2019, 11:24 PM

Nerv

Jul 30, 2019, 4:31 AM

Interesting article on the Coaster/Amtrak line thru Del Mar

Didn't know we had the second busiest rail line

https://www.delmartimes.net/news/story/2019-07-28/del-mar-is-weak-link-in-san-diegos-coastal-railroad

Yes and that point was brought up numerous times with the California high speed rail line debates. It should have been using the San Diego to Los Angeles section to build first since it would be by far the most used but since politics were in play they wanted to go San Francisco to Los Angeles leaving the most used link an orphan until decades later in the construction process.

Because we all know everyone takes the trains from Los Angeles to San Francisco in their commutes...:(

SDCAL

Jul 31, 2019, 12:17 AM

Yes and that point was brought up numerous times with the California high speed rail line debates. It should have been using the San Diego to Los Angeles section to build first since it would be by far the most used but since politics were in play they wanted to go San Francisco to Los Angeles leaving the most used link an orphan until decades later in the construction process.

Because we all know everyone takes the trains from Los Angeles to San Francisco in their commutes...:(

No kidding. And SD to LA is a lot shorter than SF to LA. If they had done the SD to LA route it could have been completed and successful and given the project an entirely different image. As of right now it looks like a huge failure, and I say that as a supporter of HSR

HurricaneHugo

Jul 31, 2019, 7:15 AM

Zoning Code Change to allow more mixed-use housing near transit lines

Seems logical

https://timesofsandiego.com/politics/2019/07/29/high-density-housing-near-public-transit-is-aim-of-san-diego-code-change/#times-facebook-comments

Maldive

Jul 31, 2019, 3:52 PM

Interesting article on the Coaster/Amtrak line thru Del Mar

Didn't know we had the second busiest rail line

https://www.delmartimes.net/news/story/2019-07-28/del-mar-is-weak-link-in-san-diegos-coastal-railroad

My best friend lives in Del Mar, 200 feet from the bluffs. After walking the bluffs during my half dozen trips my eye was always drawn to precarious train tracks... always looked like one storm away from disaster.

Don't know if this debate is continuing, but 7 years ago there was mild panic about discussions of "expropriation" and moving the tracks east.

Multi-million dollar residences cling to those cliffs... bet their real estate agents are developing ulcers.

Will O' Wisp

Aug 1, 2019, 4:13 AM

Lot of regulatory changes happening this week.

First up, City Council approved Gomez's affordable housing measure 5-4. The measure more than doubles in-lieu fees from $12 to $24 per square foot, or require developers to reserve 10% of their housing for families making less that 50% of the region's average median income (vs the current requirement of 60% AMI).

Proponents argued that the current in-lieu fees fees are too low, and that $12 a square foot is far less than what housing actually costs to build anywhere in San Diego, meaning that instead of providing part for part replacement housing the in-lieu fees allow developers to cheap out at the expense of low income families.

Opponents argued that fees of this size will increase construction costs to such a degree that less housing of all types will be able to be built, defeating the purpose of the measure.

Gomez commissioned a study which found the new requirements wouldn't effect housing construction rates, but that was contingent on landowners agreeing to sell their land to housing developers for 10-30% less than they are now. Opponents argued that landowners would instead choose to sell their land for other uses (like office space), proponents argued this was fear mongering.

Developers and the planning commission requested Gomez moderate her proposal, but Gomez demurred citing frustration with how little would be left of the measure otherwise. After over three hours of public testimony the measure passed, but with one of the committee dems joining the repubs opposing it. With only 5 yeas overriding a veto from Mayor Falconer would require one of the opponents to change their vote, and with the city's own planning department more or less saying this bill is too extreme he'd have a lot of political cover for it.

Right after council unanimously passed a planning commission sponsored measure that gives projects a 25% density boost if they reserve 10% of their housing for middle class families making 80%-120% AMI. Tack that on to current affordable housing bonuses and a project can boost its density by 175% with various incentives.

superfishy

Aug 3, 2019, 8:14 PM

I noticed an old 3-story office building on the corner of 3rd and A now has fences around it. Anyone know what for? Demolition?

HurricaneHugo

Aug 5, 2019, 2:58 AM

Does anybody know how the trolley map is going to look like after the expansion?

Curious as to how they're going to fit it in

Will O' Wisp

Aug 5, 2019, 6:14 AM

Does anybody know how the trolley map is going to look like after the expansion?

Curious as to how they're going to fit it in

http://onthego.ucsd.edu/_images/projects/BlueLineRoute.jpg
^Like this:D

Found an interesting article on the MPG:
New Navy HQ Part of $1.6B San Diego Project (https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/new-navy-hq-part-of-16b-san-diego-project/45673)

Has a lot of info on the demolition process and the foundations. Also,
Work is under way on a $1.6 billion Manchester Gateway Development project to transform leased Navy property on San Diego's downtown waterfront into a 12.7-acre development with seven new buildings including a 17-story office structure that will replace the Navy Broadway Complex and serve as the Navy's regional headquarters.

Current construction is on the new Navy building complex, which, by contract, is to be built first. The previous building had to be removed before new construction could start.

Just a sentence, but it's something.

Nv_2897

Aug 5, 2019, 11:26 PM

I saw a post on Instagram that said that the Navy HQ for the Manchester pacific gateway has officially topped out and construction should soon start for the rest of the project

JerellO

Aug 6, 2019, 4:03 AM

I saw a post on Instagram that said that the Navy HQ for the Manchester pacific gateway has officially topped out and construction should soon start for the rest of the project

Yea I was exploring some stories around downtown on snapchat and saw people recording the topping of ceremony :D

Streamliner

Aug 6, 2019, 4:23 PM

I was in Coronado (Centennial Park) about a week ago and got this shot. It gives a preview of what Pacific Gateway will look like on the skyline from this popular viewing spot:

https://i.imgur.com/du9Uns1.jpg?1

Boatguy619

Aug 6, 2019, 11:12 PM

I saw a post on Instagram that said that the Navy HQ for the Manchester pacific gateway has officially topped out and construction should soon start for the rest of the project

According to this article no other construction will begin until the Navy building is complete.

https://www.livetradingnews.com/u-s-navy-1-7-billion-redevelopment-san-diego-146849.html#.XUoGoCOZMWo

Once the Headquarters is completed and the U.S. Navy accepts the building, Manchester Financial Group will perfect the ground lease for the masterplan and move forward in developing the rest of the land.

Nv_2897

Aug 7, 2019, 3:03 AM

Also does anyone know when will the Ritz Carlton should break ground in East Village. :shrug: Hopefully it breaks ground before the incoming recession.

SDCAL

Aug 7, 2019, 3:20 AM

According to this article no other construction will begin until the Navy building is complete.

https://www.livetradingnews.com/u-s-navy-1-7-billion-redevelopment-san-diego-146849.html#.XUoGoCOZMWo

Once the Navy HQ is complete they will “perfect the ground lease”?

What does that mean? Is that a vague way of saying they will pursue financing after that? I don’t want to re-hash old arguments on this board but in my opinion Manchester seems shady about how they went about this whole thing. This is not how they sold the project timeline to the public up-front.

SDCAL

Aug 7, 2019, 3:23 AM

Also does anyone know when will the Ritz Carlton should break ground in East Village. :shrug: Hopefully it breaks ground before the incoming recession.

I was able to get some info on this from people directly involved. Their original financing fell through due to someone backing-out, but they have other financing options and are still pretty confident in the project. They hope an announcement in the next month or so but construction won’t be until early next year, unfortunately. This one keeps getting delayed but as I said they are still positive.

Will O' Wisp

Aug 7, 2019, 10:10 PM

Once the Navy HQ is complete they will “perfect the ground lease”?

What does that mean? Is that a vague way of saying they will pursue financing after that? I don’t want to re-hash old arguments on this board but in my opinion Manchester seems shady about how they went about this whole thing. This is not how they sold the project timeline to the public up-front.

Perfecting a lease means the lessee has fulfilled some requirement or condition, formally activating the lease. An simple example would be a clause stating that the lessee is required to pay a security deposit before taking possession of an apartment. But the requirements can be anything, like requiring a developer to obtain building permits for a subdivision before they can take possession of a particular plat.

From this and a few other articles it's now fairly clear what's going on. The Navy is requiring MPG to build the Navy office tower to completion, have the Navy accept the build as adequate, and allow the Navy to move in before they give MPG control over the Navy's land (aka perfecting their ground lease). Because the Navy retains complete ownership of anything built upon the land until MPG's lease is perfected, MPG can't use any (future) buildings built upon it as collateral for a loan until the Navy office tower is finished. No bank is going to lend you money against something another party can take back whenever it pleases them.

Note that this doesn't mean MPG will have to go out and hunt down financing after they finish the Navy office. They could already have agreements with creditors in place (and claim to do). But the money doesn't transfer hands until MPG finishes the Navy office. This keeps all the risk on the developer, as the investors haven't handed over any of their cash yet, and in the event MPG can't finish the office tower the Navy can just re-lease out the land to whomever they like. The whole concept is extremely common in P3s, just a month ago I took the keys to a building after going through the exact same process.

CrookedRecords

Aug 8, 2019, 3:59 PM

Superfishy: "I noticed an old 3-story office building on the corner of 3rd and A now has fences around it. Anyone know what for? Demolition?"

3rd and A is the location of a Hanover project that they are calling "Hanover 3rd and A" at this time. It will be a 21 story residential tower.

These files created by me...

https://i.imgur.com/MfAicv3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rMiZJab.jpg

Maldive

Aug 8, 2019, 4:26 PM

Suprised no discussion of bluff failure causing tragic fatalities. Nevermind the train issue, chunks of this piece of the coast was and is, scary for family beach visits.

My best friend lives in Del Mar, 200 feet from the bluffs. After walking the bluffs during my half dozen trips my eye was always drawn to precarious train tracks... always looked like one storm away from disaster.

Don't know if this debate is continuing, but 7 years ago there was mild panic about discussions of "expropriation" and moving the tracks east.

Multi-million dollar residences cling to those cliffs... bet their real estate agents are developing ulcers.

Streamliner

Aug 8, 2019, 7:27 PM

Suprised no discussion of bluff failure causing tragic fatalities. Nevermind the train issue, chunks of this piece of the coast was and is, scary for family beach visits.

Agreed. The bluff erosion issue is going to be a big issue for a long time, especially with sea level rise and the difficulty of procuring sand replenishment, and the Coastal Commission's stance against sea walls.

mello

Aug 9, 2019, 8:31 PM

CrookedRecords

Aug 9, 2019, 10:28 PM

As you guys remember this project somehow got tied up with the Cisterra Ritz tower in that ridiculous Union extortion lawsuit that has held up both buildings. I spoke with J Street who announced another 14 floor tower just a few blocks east and they said they are still 6 months out from announcing construction on the Hilton.

The rep said they are no longer tied to Cisterra and both projects are independent. So lets hope they both get going soon.

Manchester Pac Gate: Why can't they start digging the holes for the Office and Hotel towers now? It won't affect the construction of the Navy Building or the existing Navy Office in use now.... It would save a ton of time if they started digging now right :shrug:

As far as I know they haven't awarded the jobs to the General Contractors. I worked with Turner for quite a while on this first phase. The first phase was awarded to them but the job is being broken up into pieces and each phase will go through a whole new bidding process. If I remember correctly there will be a total of nine but that is just a memory. There will be a total of 12 cranes plus or minus on the job but not all at one time. For a while they were looking at the 2nd phase and trying to figure out how they were going to set that 75 ton bridge in between the two towers. One issue I noticed is that the radius of the north crane in the first phase will interfere with any crane placed in the correct location with the correct radius in the 2nd phase.

I'm not to sure how pleased everybody is with Turner right now. The scope of this job is truly immense. I have been speaking to other trades about it for the past 3 years and there is an interior elevator company that said if they took all of their employees country wide and placed them on this job they would not have enough man power. I heard that there will be something around a few hundred elevators total?

I'm hearing that the Gaylord job is moving forward in South Bay. That will be another massive project....

Will O' Wisp

Aug 10, 2019, 2:51 AM

I heard that there will be something around a few hundred elevators total?

That's kinda ridiculously high. Your average ultra-tall with 3 sky lobbies will only have 50-60 elevators, and all we're looking at here is a pair of high rises, a mid rise, and three low rises.

CrookedRecords

Aug 12, 2019, 6:33 PM

That's what I thought as well. That number was mentioned around 3 years ago or so when I was still working on the new courthouse building. There may have been some design changes since then I'm sure. The current phase may be doubled up because just like the "poor door" solution that pinnacle had come up with in the mixed use buildings the Navy building will have secure areas and areas accessible to the public. Each probably needs their own stairs and elevators and that is for the underground parking as well at least in this case. That was one issue that was mentioned to me during a conversation with a contractor about separating tenants in buildings and that is that much of the space is used up with all of the necessary elevator shafts. I guess if I end up getting a full set of plans I'll have to count them all.

mello

Aug 14, 2019, 9:26 PM

Will O' Wisp

Aug 15, 2019, 1:13 AM

Look at the bond markets today tons of people flooding in to 2 year bonds. Big sign that confidence in economy is eroding fast. Let's get these towers started! Not sure why we hear of approvals and then they say, "Construction starting Q1 of 2020"... What's the hold up?

Will O Wisp: You are a developer give us your assessment what is going on with Cisterra 7th/Market, Alexan Little Italy, CA Theatre, 1st and Beech all approved but timeline for shovels in the ground pushed back months to years after approval? (Well I think we know Ritz was a unique case due to Union extortion towers should have been almost finished by now if that lawsuit hadn't happened)

Well, I work primarily on industrial/commercial projects so the issues affecting my industry can be very different from the ones affecting developers downtown. But I've observed all of the following factors effect project timelines recently:

-The tariffs have not been great for the industry, material costs have risen significantly overall and certain items can be in short supply.
-The low jobless rate has made finding labor difficult and expensive. Most general contractors are pretty well tapped out, and projects are constantly jostling to get to the head of the line.
-The building & trades union has been CEQA suing a huge slate of projects lately to force developers into PLAs. Beyond the legal delays this exacerbates labor issues as union shops can't scale up to demand very quickly, which means they're even more tapped out atm.
-All of the above have lead to increased construction costs, around 10-20%. This has been playing hell with many a project's financing, sometimes requiring renegotiation with lenders/investors.

There's a lot of divided feelings about the future of the economy. So, the basic concept behind a recession/depression is the market discovering some asset class is grossly overvalued. Think mortgages in 07, when everyone suddenly learned that MBS securities were worthless since homeowners didn't have enough income to pay them back. The resulting chaos comes from the various sectors of our highly interconnected economy struggling to entangle themselves from this massive hole and figure out what they're actually worth.

The issue today is that no one can quite decipher what that overvalued asset might be, or how we'll figure it out. Might be something relatively small, like stocks in Uber and other app companies when it becomes clear that they have no path to profitability. Might be massive, like US treasury bonds if our political system becomes so divided that we can't make our debt payments. Or it could, quite possibly, be nothing and the markets are just spooked. There's no firm proof of any of these things. All the nasty signs so far have only been indications that a subconscious fear of something is running through a lot of people's minds, but the firm statistics of the economy right now (GDP growth, productivity, unemployment rate, consumer spending) are all fairly rosy.

That's how you get the current situation with one group of investors taking faith in the wisdom of crowds and playing cautiously upon the belief that something is fundamentally wrong with the markets, even if they don't fully understand what is is, and another bullishly forging ahead buoyed on by their immediate view of a strong economy.

Streamliner

Aug 15, 2019, 3:24 PM

This project seems to be a sure bet, at least. I'm very excited for this one, with it being a cultural center on the waterfront, with a really nice, sleek design. It's something a world-class waterfront city should have.

Symphony will start building its permanent bayside venue next month
August 14, 2019
Jennifer Van Grove

Union-Tribune Article (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/story/2019-08-14/san-diego-symphony-building-permanent-bay-venue-next-month)

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/f109d8b/2147483647/strip/true/crop/6000x3000+0+0/resize/840x420!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fca-times.brightspotcdn.com%2F5f%2F6d%2F0125e21848efa5cbf8e1d7ae056e%2Fbpp-side-view-wpeople.jpg

The San Diego Symphony is just weeks away from breaking ground on its $45 million Bayside Performance Park venue thanks to large gifts from big-money philanthropists.

Wednesday, the San Diego Symphony Orchestra Association’s board of directors voted to push forward with construction once the current season wraps up, meaning the project should commence in the second week of September and finish in July of next year. The decision represents confidence in the nonprofit’s ability to secure the private funding necessary to build the venue and complete park improvements.

Already, the institution has raised more than half of the funds required, said Martha Gilmer, who is the symphony’s chief executive officer. Lead contributions include a gift made possible by Una Davis, who is the wife of former City Manager Jack McGrory. Well-known philanthropic couples Joan and Irwin Jacobs, and Ernest and Evelyn Rady are also giving substantial sums to help finance the project, although exact amounts weren’t disclosed.

"(With the board’s OK), we’re really putting shovels in the dirt and beginning construction on this remarkable project,” Gilmer said.

The project reached its crescendo, transitioning from theoretical to actual, last month when the Port of San Diego agreed to lease a 3.68-acre site on Embarcadero Marina Park to the symphony for up to 50 years. The agreement was the last regulatory action needed for the symphony’s long-planned outdoor facility, which will serve as the permanent home of the Bayside Summer Nights concert series.

The project includes a 13,015-square-foot outdoor stage, acoustic shell and back-of-house facilities for a year-round version of the program formerly known as the Summer Pops. It also entails a 5,445-square-foot public viewing deck with concrete steps at the back of the stage, a 68-stall restroom and two pavilions on a 15,242-square-foot area.

The symphony must also complete a number of park improvements outside of its leasehold, including replacing the existing basketball courts and updating the public restrooms. It is also limited to hosting 110 half-day or 55 full-day restricted events, leaving the site open to the public for most of the year.

The institution typically hosts 33 outdoor concerts as part of the annual series, which dates to 1983 and has been in its current location, on and off, since 1991. This year, 14 of the 23 shows hosted so far are considered sellouts, meaning 2,500 tickets were distributed. With the new facility, the symphony expects an average attendance of 3,100 people per event, however the venue’s flexible seating design will allow for crowds as small as 2,000 people and as large as 10,000 people.

Streamliner

Aug 15, 2019, 3:29 PM

Re: Will O' Wisp ^^Great assessment

-The building & trades union has been CEQA suing a huge slate of projects lately to force developers into PLAs. Beyond the legal delays this exacerbates labor issues as union shops can't scale up to demand very quickly, which means they're even more tapped out atm.

I can definitely attest to this one. I feel like there's been a large uptick in these kinds of complaints recently for every large project.

JerellO

Aug 15, 2019, 6:06 PM

Wow, completely forgot about the Symphony’s development :D that’s so exciting!!

Also, our city hall is garbage lol whatever happened to redeveloping our city hall/civic center?

Northparkwizard

Aug 15, 2019, 7:13 PM

Wow, completely forgot about the Symphony’s development :D that’s so exciting!!

Also, our city hall is garbage lol whatever happened to redeveloping our city hall/civic center?

I'd guess that gathering public support behind an expensive multi-year redevelopment project/expansion for city hall/civic center isn't an easy sell or a top priority of any council member. Although, it's fairly obvious that it's badly needed.

Our Development Services Department could really use new facilities as well to meet demand. Anyone who's visited the new(ish) SD County Ops Center knows what i'm talking about.

Streamliner

Aug 15, 2019, 9:43 PM

Sadly it's one of those things that will appear wasteful to the average citizen, but meanwhile the City's spending tons of $$ renting out space and sitting in inefficient 60's-era buildings. Last year, 550 city workers had to relocate immediately when asbestos was discovered in their offices.

Fozcat

Aug 16, 2019, 4:38 AM

Speaking of EVERYTHING tick tock Horton Plaza.

Nv_2897

Aug 16, 2019, 4:46 AM

Horton Plaza Redevelopment
https://i.imgur.com/UY65XvR.jpg

Nv_2897

Aug 16, 2019, 4:54 AM

joemamma

Aug 16, 2019, 3:39 PM

I guess the rumor about bringing NBA team to a new downtown San Diego arena are gone with this deal.

Rumor was Joe Tsai would buy the team and bring them here (across from Petco) but today's deal means Nets stay in Brooklyn.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-16/alibaba-s-tsai-to-buy-nets-and-barclays-arena-for-3-5-billion

SDCAL

Aug 16, 2019, 6:40 PM

Horton Plaza Redevelopment
https://i.imgur.com/UY65XvR.jpg

I had to look closer to see if this was a rendering of the before or after.

Are they keeping the existing parking structure??

JerellO

Aug 16, 2019, 11:18 PM

Horton Plaza Redevelopment
https://i.imgur.com/UY65XvR.jpg

Omg I’m so happy that they decided to preserve that old triangular structure in the center AND the stairs leading up to the central space. Those 2 were my biggest holes that they would preserve... the stairs give us some sort of Spanish Steps or Bunker Hill steps feeling :D

CrookedRecords

Aug 17, 2019, 12:44 AM

I saw on carrier johnson + culture's instagram that the bridge that linked the former courthouse and the city jail (front street bridge) was taken down on Tuesday. Could this mean they are ready to start demo on the old courthouse building? :shrug:

They have started some demo. They are just finishing up with the asbestos remediation. I did the lift plans for both of those bridge picks. The second one will be coming out soon.

I was down at that job site this week helping them get ready to install their exterior construction hoist. Before the hoist goes in they are going to fly a bobcat to each floor to assist with the demo. The scaffolding guys are almost done installing the trash chute in that north parking lot of south block. NorthStar says that they are going to use a method where they place a piece of equipment on the roof and then demo from the top down. The breaker will demo itself into a corner and then use a ramp to lower itself to the next level. I have seen it done on a YouTube video. They are expecting it to take about 4 weeks per floor. There are 7 floors and a basement. I have seen what they were able to find of the original as built drawings dated 1956 or 1957 if i remember correctly. Pretty cool.

That whole place is loaded with those theater type seats. The old phone booths looked cool but they were marked to be saved.

https://i.imgur.com/leW3LKdundefined.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/yhLZtCTundefined.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/CBwDypxundefined.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/IVEX3yEundefined.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/QtOrKCuundefined.jpg

Steadfast

Aug 18, 2019, 5:52 AM

Macy's is still present in the Horton image above... Guess that means they're sticking around?
That great news for downtown workers & residents!
I honestly thought it would be closing down that location...

Fozcat

Aug 19, 2019, 4:41 PM

Macy's sticking around is absolutely fantastic! According to the UT, their lease option runs until 2060.

I know it's all doom and doom and gloom in retail these days (especially for department stores), but I'm optimistic that the new development will help this location boom.

JerellO

Aug 19, 2019, 6:16 PM

Also, I noticed that the upside down skyline mural in Horton Plaza park is going to be replaced by a retail front with a hanging garden it looks like in the render.

CrookedRecords

Aug 19, 2019, 9:31 PM

Garden Communities is beginning foundation work on Tower B at the corner of La Jolla Village Drive and Genesee Ave. This will be a 22 story hotel. Plans are to build out the rest of that parking lot with two more buildings in addition to a separate hotel by another company for a total of five new buildings. Tower A is either complete or pretty close to it by the looks of it.

lajollan

Aug 20, 2019, 4:28 AM

When the new Navy building is finished will the Navy property at Pacific & A become vacant? It would be nice to have another 400'+ go up there and block one of the twin towers at the grande.

I’m very glad to see this question and hope someone can offer an answer. I believe the Naval Facilities Engineering is located here.

Are there any plans for them to relocate to the new Navy Building? Equally important, are there any plans for the existing 1-2 story structures?

I am considering a property at Bayside but would feel better knowing about the redevelopment plan for the area since the noise/dust could be an issue.

Thank you!:)

Will O' Wisp

Aug 20, 2019, 7:23 AM

I’m very glad to see this question and hope someone can offer an answer. I believe the Naval Facilities Engineering is located here.

Are there any plans for them to relocate to the new Navy Building? Equally important, are there any plans for the existing 1-2 story structures?

I am considering a property at Bayside but would feel better knowing about the redevelopment plan for the area since the noise/dust could be an issue.

Thank you!:)

I don't know what the Navy plans to do, but the Port has designated that lot as a high priority acquisition.

They want to knock down the southern set of buildings (the east/west ones directly north of the new Marriott) to build a road directly from Pacific Hwy to the B St pier. That would give the Port the ability to cut down the width of Harbor Dr, as trucks delivering supplies to the cruise ships would no longer need to travel on that road anymore, expanding the park space in the area.

If all that goes well they will also get the northern building (the one abutting West A St), which they plan on turning into a 'mobility hub', which in this case would amount to a parking structure and shuttle running up and down Harbor Dr in its own dedicated lane. That would let the Port replace all the parking on the waterfront, again expanding available park space.

The rest doesn't have a specific plan, whether the hotels get replaced or not depend on if someone comes in with the cash and the will. The area has been upzoned though for up to 10,000 sq feet of additional office space, 15,000 sq feet of additional retail space, and 500 new hotel rooms for anyone willing to fight through what will probably be a hellish permitting process.

Of course, this will probably take 10-15 years at minimum so I wouldn't put it as a major factor in your purchasing decisions.

aekrid

Aug 20, 2019, 5:08 PM

Cladding goes up on MPG Navy building.

https://i.imgur.com/IYyg0y8.jpg

Fozcat

Aug 20, 2019, 7:25 PM

Wow, that's gonna look like a complete building in a matter of weeks.

Streamliner

Aug 20, 2019, 8:47 PM

I'm amazed at the progress, I still can't believe it's happening.

HurricaneHugo

Aug 21, 2019, 7:33 AM

Does anybody know what the end-goal for the 163/Friars intersection?

On the surface this seems like a horrible idea

https://i.redd.it/w69h38xrwmh31.png

JerellO

Aug 21, 2019, 9:17 AM

My goodness, I feel like the new navy tower just broke ground... its literally happening like.. SO fast... nnyeah

Boatguy619

Aug 22, 2019, 12:26 AM

My goodness, I feel like the new navy tower just broke ground... its literally happening like.. SO fast... nnyeah

The positives of a short skyline! Transformed in a matter of months.
Heres a photo I got from this morning. Avoid PCH while there doing the cladding or you'll get stuck in their loading zone.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48596125627_fb4b64346d.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2h3gR5X)2019-08-21_05-19-56 (https://flic.kr/p/2h3gR5X) by kevinbeatty (https://www.flickr.com/photos/29362128@N08/), on Flickr

Will O' Wisp

Aug 23, 2019, 5:50 AM

Does anybody know what the end-goal for the 163/Friars intersection?

On the surface this seems like a horrible idea

https://i.redd.it/w69h38xrwmh31.png

Ugh, when you look at it like that you can really see the early 60s style roadway engineering with all those tight curves and weaving traffic patterns. Not great.

My guess is that they're going to add a NB auxiliary lane, probably so they can have a 2 lane exit from NB 163 to WB Friars. Current NB 163 to EB Friars is in the way, and by the looks of it there's a drainage canal edging right up next to it so relocation isn't an option. Presumably Caltrans did the math and figured more people were going WB than EB, which makes sense since Fashion Valley is right off the WB exit.

Hopefully the next step is fixing all the weaving traffic slightly to the south coming in from the 8, and convert the SB exits from full to partial cloverleaf.

spoonman

Aug 23, 2019, 6:46 PM

I believe there was a 2nd part of this project that added a flyover ramp fr traffic entering the freeway.

Regarding the image above, it does seem shortsighted to eliminate the ramp to east Friars, especially given the potential for new development at Hazard Center, the stadium, the quarry, etc.

CurtisParkChris

Aug 27, 2019, 4:29 PM

Streamliner

Aug 30, 2019, 7:37 PM

View from the Navy HQ building, via u/SoCalmetalhead619 on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/sandiego/comments/cxiwbp/my_view_of_the_midway_and_coronado_from_my_jobsite/)

https://i.redd.it/lhgqo6hmzlj31.jpg

Will O' Wisp

Aug 31, 2019, 9:13 PM

Hey all - Planning a move to San Diego from Denver next year and wanted to get to know the urban neighborhoods where (re)development is focused to stake out a great place to lay down roots. Any recommendations on who to follow or where you get your urbanist news for San Diego area? Thanks in advance and hope to contribute when we make the move!

Welcome to the thread! I don't know much about Denver, but compared to LA or SF there aren't as many news resources. Probably the closest thing to your traditional local urbanist newszine is the VoSD (https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/), although they're more about local politics than development updates. Urbanzine has a development map (https://sandiego.urbdezine.com/development-map/) that's fairly regularly updated. The San Diego Union-Tribune (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development) actually puts out a good deal of development focused content, more than you'd expect for your average 'big corporate newspaper', all lowest common denominator in tone but still pretty well researched.

Honestly though the thread itself tends to be one of the major resources, which I think is what keeps it active. Most of the stuff coming out here is directly from the sources in the form of building plans/permit applications.

Downtown is currently a hotbed of development. The thread tends to focus on projects there because they're more interesting individually but North Park, Mission Valley, and UTC are all rapidly building up as well.

You might want to consider reading up on these projects, they're huge and ongoing and subject to to near constant discussion:

Manchester Pacific Gateway (MPG): The biggest development in downtown SD history, MPG finally started construction last year after a 15 year legal saga. It's a hotel/retail/office complex stretching across 8 blocks of waterfront real estate, replacing a navy office and a mass of parking lots. Includes two high rises and a smattering of mid rises. Scheduled for completion in 2021.

Terminal One replacement: A long overdue replacement of the 1960's era terminal one at San Diego International Airport (which is right next to downtown, that's going to be an adjustment for you). Has been controversial due to the the potential traffic impacts, during the environmental review last year it was decided to integrate a public transit connection that will either be an extension of the trolley or 'San Diego Grand Central': a new regional transportation hub. Which one it will be should be announced sometime in September, construction on the new terminal should start in 2022 with timelines on the rest a bit fuzzier.

Seaport Village redevelopment: The MPG is big but this is one BIG. It's an even larger entertainment complex replacing the dinky shops of the current seaport village. Includes a 500' observation tower (tallest allowed due to proximity to the airport), an aquarium, museums, hotels, you name it. Currently in design review, if all goes well groundbreaking will be in 2024.

SDSU West: A ballot proposition last year approved selling the Qualcomm stadium in Mission Valley to SDSU college over a proposal to develop it as a soccer focused entertainment complex. One of the largest redevelopment projects in the city by area, the college will replace the stadium with a mix of housing/office/school buildings. Controversial due to the uncertainty of SDSU's ability to pay for a development of this size, and (arguably) the residual unhappiness over our NFL team leaving for LA after a proposition to build them a replacement for Qualcomm failed at the ballot office. Everything about the project is still fuzzy, from timelines to the exact nature of what will be built.

CurtisParkChris

Sep 1, 2019, 4:58 PM

Welcome to the thread!

This is excellent - thanks for the warm welcome and overview! Diving in now to your major project highlights!

mello

Sep 1, 2019, 8:09 PM

Will O Wisp: Now you have ground breaking on T1 moved back to 2022?? Just a few posts ago you said 2021... What on earth could push it back that far?

Why do you keep referring to MPG as having only 2 highrises? It is clearly 3 are you counting the hotels as 1 tower due to the ugly sky bridge thing?

Seaport Redo: Not breaking ground till 2024? Jeez that is way off in the future and the economic collapse will have occured by then. I suppose 2024 is realistic because the economic turmoil could be settled down and the developer could score the needed financing at that point.

Can you explain why its taking so long, thanks. :cheers:

Will O' Wisp

Sep 1, 2019, 11:36 PM

Will O Wisp: Now you have ground breaking on T1 moved back to 2022?? Just a few posts ago you said 2021... What on earth could push it back that far?

Crap, I posted the posted the actual year I think it will start instead of the propaganda numb- 2021 assumes nothing else will go wrong with the second round of environmental reviews, there's no delays in getting labor or materials (tariffs *cough cough*), no issues with financing due to a recession, etc...

Why do you keep referring to MPG as having only 2 highrises? It is clearly 3 are you counting the hotels as 1 tower due to the ugly sky bridge thing?

I personally count towers that share one base as a a single building. So this...

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/69151aa/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2048x1151+0+0/resize/840x472!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fca-times.brightspotcdn.com%2F32%2F7f%2Fa1b1a6dd6d06c362db5719485318%2Fsd-1525398099-wvt1hoeb2f-snap-image

...is a single building because both towers rise out of the same base structure. Worth noting MPG itself counts it the same way.

https://cdn0.locable.com/uploads/resource/file/341324/fit/1000x600/bg_site.jpg?timestamp=1488239015

Seaport Redo: Not breaking ground till 2024? Jeez that is way off in the future and the economic collapse will have occured by then. I suppose 2024 is realistic because the economic turmoil could be settled down and the developer could score the needed financing at that point.

Can you explain why its taking so long, thanks. :cheers:

I don't know, ask them: https://www.seaportsandiegoca.com/timeline.html

This is an extremely complex project with a lot of a lot of moving parts. CEQA, CCC approval, financing, labor, all could be a source of delays. I can't tell you exactly how they came to that exact figure without additional information.

mello

Sep 2, 2019, 2:16 AM

Will O' Wisp

Sep 2, 2019, 3:44 AM

Thanks regarding financing of terminal one redo, i called Lori Weisberg at the UT and asked her if the economy goes belly up is T1 still a go and she said yes. According to her the money is there no matter what happens between now and groundbreaking in 2021. We can be assured it will be built.

Oh it will be built, that much is certain. Commercial service airport has two major methods of financing capital improvement projects. The first is Passenger Facility Charges (PFCs), which is a surcharge added to every passenger's ticket when they fly out of an airport. PFCs are capped by federal law at $4.50 a head, so with SDIA hosting 24 million pax a year it can look at pulling in a bit over $100 million annually. You typically multiply this with debt service, airport bonds typically have extremely low interest rates due to their reliability.

But PFCs aren't usually enough to fund something as big as a new terminal terminal complex, and they certainly weren't enough to fund this. So the airport went out and negotiated with the airlines under its Residual Cost Agreement (RCA). The RCA is a contract that states, in essence, that the airlines will always make the airport whole. If the PFCs can't cover all of the debt the airport needs to pay for its terminal, the airlines pay the rest. Obviously the airlines wouldn't have signed such an agreement unless they were giving a good deal of control over what gets built and when, and that control is divvied up based on the percentage that each airline makes of the airport's total operations, and so if a certain southwestern airline says SDIA needs to slow down its spend to keep that airline's profit margin in line SDIA will have to take that into account.

You'll notice something though about PFCs and RCAs. They are innately tied to how well the air travel sector is doing. If there's a market crash, and less people are flying, then they're be less PFC dollars to be had. And while the airport has a contract with airlines that states they will keep paying under the RCA, if the economy is in the crapper and the airlines are going bankrupt that won't be worth much (similar things happened in 2001 and 2008). That leaves the final, uncomfortable option of asking for the money direct from the federal government in the form of an Airport Improvement Program (AIP) grant, ideally with matching funds from Caltrans. Airport take these grants all the time, SDIA just accepted an AIP grant to rebuild a taxiway last month, but tapping the taxpayers for this much would be highly controversial. The entire airport leadership would probably be fired, construction will get delayed, the final terminal might even be downsized, but in the end our government has decided projects of this sort are a public good so they would fund it.

So as you can see the airport has funding backstops, and backstops for the backstops, and in the end unless Washington is in flames there will be money available. We built the extension to terminal two in the midst of the great recession after all. But that doesn't mean that the funding will always be immediate and available, just that it will be there eventually.

All of that said, funding isn't the worrying part. It's more likely than not to be readily available, even with some fairly radical cost increases. The biggest uncertainty right now is that we still can't decide on how to connect public transit to the airport. Hassan and Falconer are so very, very set on their 'San Diego Grand Central' at the SPAWAR site, which theyve been trying to play up as almost a done deal. But while the SPAWAR site has a lot of potential, right now SANDAG can't afford it, the transit system it's supposed to lay at the heart of is extremely controversial within the SANDAG board, the Navy has studiously avoided endorsing the idea (other than agreeing to let private developers include it in their proposals for the site, if they want to), and the local NIMBY groups are really starting to wake up to the idea that Hassan and Falconer are proposing to build a defacto second downtown in the midway district without consulting the public at all. Desmond is throwing up all sorts of complaints about cost and Gomez isn't happy about the 10-15+ year timeline, so the plan is taking fire from both the left and the right. Now Gomez has MTS studying a direct trolley connection, except now she wants it to go all the way to Point Loma or even PB, which is playing hell with the original plan of having whatever we build dead end in between T1 and T2. We're already over two months behind schedule and the powers that be can't come to an agreement.

JerellO

Sep 3, 2019, 3:33 AM

All the buildings except 4A are considered high rises.

HurricaneHugo

Sep 3, 2019, 5:47 AM

Went to Sydney in July and just came back from San Francisco this weekend

Saw first hand what world class waterfronts are.

One day San Diego...one day

SDCAL

Sep 3, 2019, 7:26 AM

Manchester Pacific Gateway (MPG): The biggest development in downtown SD history, MPG finally started construction last year after a 15 year legal saga. It's a hotel/retail/office complex stretching across 8 blocks of waterfront real estate, replacing a navy office and a mass of parking lots. Includes two high rises and a smattering of mid rises. Scheduled for completion in 2021

Are you saying 2021 for the entire project or just for the Navy building? There is no way they can meet 2021 for the entire project now that they’ve shelved everything until the Navy building is totally complete and the Navy approves it.

mello

Sep 3, 2019, 9:10 PM

JerellO

Sep 4, 2019, 1:27 AM

At the pace its going Navy building will be finished by December or Jan, its just a shame that they arent simultaneously digging the underground foundations for office and hotel towers now... I still dont totally understand why they arent because the massive excavation for the base of those buildings will take months.

Navy employees still need places to park I’m assuming. I used to work at the navy building and if they removed the parking spaces where the new tower is... parking is a bitch lol

Nv_2897

Sep 4, 2019, 3:01 AM

According to @realportfolio on instagram states, "Pacific Gate’s sister development, currently called “Pacific and Broadway” has filed a 3 year extension on its already entitled construction permit. Meaning we could see the new development begin construction within 3 years, if the extension is approved." I wonder what is the specific reason for the construction extension maybe for the incoming recession or because the Manchester Pacific Gateway was completion date was pushed back :shrug: What are your thoughts? I was really excited for this project.

https://i.imgur.com/PYm7WJR.png

https://i.imgur.com/WRyVbKR.jpg

Will O' Wisp

Sep 4, 2019, 4:41 AM

Are you saying 2021 for the entire project or just for the Navy building? There is no way they can meet 2021 for the entire project now that they’ve shelved everything until the Navy building is totally complete and the Navy approves it.

2021 for the entire project, per the press release for the groundbreaking.

http://www.manchesterpacificgateway.com/updates/manchester-pacific-gateway-groundbreaking/

Don't ask me how they intend to do it, I'm just relaying MPG's own figures.

HurricaneHugo

Sep 5, 2019, 7:37 AM

Liberty National buys the rest of the lot between Park/13th/Broadway/C St

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/real-estate/story/2019-09-04/vacant-lot-in-east-village-sells-for-7-75-million

Still needs final approval, hopefully in October

mello

Sep 5, 2019, 9:38 PM

Navy employees still need places to park I’m assuming. I used to work at the navy building and if they removed the parking spaces where the new tower is... parking is a bitch lol

There has not been parking on the site since any construction began the entire site is scrapped and simply dirt. So that is not a reason for the lack of digging for the foundations of taller towers.

Nv 2897: Regarding Pacific Gate's semi twin I posted a couple of months ago that I called BOSA and they said there are no plans to start on that tower that they are still working on selling Savina, etc. They told me that Nat Bosa thinks Manchester Development will add value to the Pac Gate Twin project and that he wants to wait until it is farther along to begin construction on his project... So looks like this one will be a while and not break ground before recession.

Liberty National : Does anyone know anything about this company in the article Hugo listed they are also the developer for 1st and Beech and many other towers... They sound like big timers but have they actually gotten anything significant built in SD or California? :shrug:

Will O' Wisp

Sep 5, 2019, 11:51 PM

Liberty National : Does anyone know anything about this company in the article Hugo listed they are also the developer for 1st and Beech and many other towers... They sound like big timers but have they actually gotten anything significant built in SD or California? :shrug:

Well this has been an interesting journey.

Liberty's website (http://libertync.com/) is very bare bones, and doesn't contain a single completed project (http://libertync.com/projects). Which is very, very odd because they claim to have been founded in 1976 (http://libertync.com/about).

Something wasn't adding up so looked more into Mark Schmidt, the CEO, CFO, and secretary (https://businesssearch.sos.ca.gov/Document/RetrievePDF?Id=03960790-21561217) of Liberty National. And that's when this (http://willmarksettlement.com/media/1584171/settlement_agreement.pdf) legal settlement showed up. Turns out a Mr. Mark Schmidt was previously CEO of Wilmark Communities, which got into serious trouble (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-willmark-settlement-20180713-story.html) last year for falsely withholding renter's security deposits and laying bogus charges on anyone who moved out.

With the info I already had I managed to find at least one (https://www.scottfinnhomes.com/first-look-proposed-east-village-skyscraper-would-be-one-of-citys-tallest/) article which confirms Mark Schmidt of Liberty National and Mark Schmidt of Wilmark Communities are the same person. Looks like after all that controversy Schmidt decided a name change was in order. According to the U-T article, Wilmark Communities built 8 apartment complexes in San Diego, and I've found at least one other in Florida (https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/stories/2007/04/09/story3.html?i=77818&b=1176091200%5E1442692), so Liberty National (nee Wilmark) is indeed a legit developer. But what I haven't been able to find is any evidence they've ever constructed a high rise project before.

JerellO

Sep 6, 2019, 5:06 AM

Streamliner

Sep 6, 2019, 3:04 PM

Well this has been an interesting journey.

Liberty's website (http://libertync.com/) is very bare bones, and doesn't contain a single completed project (http://libertync.com/projects). Which is very, very odd because they claim to have been founded in 1976 (http://libertync.com/about).

Something wasn't adding up so looked more into Mark Schmidt, the CEO, CFO, and secretary (https://businesssearch.sos.ca.gov/Document/RetrievePDF?Id=03960790-21561217) of Liberty National. And that's when this (http://willmarksettlement.com/media/1584171/settlement_agreement.pdf) legal settlement showed up. Turns out a Mr. Mark Schmidt was previously CEO of Wilmark Communities, which got into serious trouble (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-willmark-settlement-20180713-story.html) last year for falsely withholding renter's security deposits and laying bogus charges on anyone who moved out.

With the info I already had I managed to find at least one (https://www.scottfinnhomes.com/first-look-proposed-east-village-skyscraper-would-be-one-of-citys-tallest/) article which confirms Mark Schmidt of Liberty National and Mark Schmidt of Wilmark Communities are the same person. Looks like after all that controversy Schmidt decided a name change was in order. According to the U-T article, Wilmark Communities built 8 apartment complexes in San Diego, and I've found at least one other in Florida (https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/stories/2007/04/09/story3.html?i=77818&b=1176091200%5E1442692), so Liberty National (nee Wilmark) is indeed a legit developer. But what I haven't been able to find is any evidence they've ever constructed a high rise project before.

Excellent sleuthing skills! I won't hold my breath on this project for now.

staplesla

Sep 6, 2019, 10:59 PM

Well this has been an interesting journey.

Liberty's website (http://libertync.com/) is very bare bones, and doesn't contain a single completed project (http://libertync.com/projects). Which is very, very odd because they claim to have been founded in 1976 (http://libertync.com/about).

Something wasn't adding up so looked more into Mark Schmidt, the CEO, CFO, and secretary (https://businesssearch.sos.ca.gov/Document/RetrievePDF?Id=03960790-21561217) of Liberty National. And that's when this (http://willmarksettlement.com/media/1584171/settlement_agreement.pdf) legal settlement showed up. Turns out a Mr. Mark Schmidt was previously CEO of Wilmark Communities, which got into serious trouble (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-willmark-settlement-20180713-story.html) last year for falsely withholding renter's security deposits and laying bogus charges on anyone who moved out.

With the info I already had I managed to find at least one (https://www.scottfinnhomes.com/first-look-proposed-east-village-skyscraper-would-be-one-of-citys-tallest/) article which confirms Mark Schmidt of Liberty National and Mark Schmidt of Wilmark Communities are the same person. Looks like after all that controversy Schmidt decided a name change was in order. According to the U-T article, Wilmark Communities built 8 apartment complexes in San Diego, and I've found at least one other in Florida (https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/stories/2007/04/09/story3.html?i=77818&b=1176091200%5E1442692), so Liberty National (nee Wilmark) is indeed a legit developer. But what I haven't been able to find is any evidence they've ever constructed a high rise project before.

They seem pretty shady.

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2017/oct/18/city-lights-few-steps-being-mobsters/#

spoonman

Sep 7, 2019, 3:15 AM

There has not been parking on the site since any construction began the entire site is scrapped and simply dirt. So that is not a reason for the lack of digging for the foundations of taller towers.

Nv 2897: Regarding Pacific Gate's semi twin I posted a couple of months ago that I called BOSA and they said there are no plans to start on that tower that they are still working on selling Savina, etc. They told me that Nat Bosa thinks Manchester Development will add value to the Pac Gate Twin project and that he wants to wait until it is farther along to begin construction on his project... So looks like this one will be a while and not break ground before recession.

Liberty National : Does anyone know anything about this company in the article Hugo listed they are also the developer for 1st and Beech and many other towers... They sound like big timers but have they actually gotten anything significant built in SD or California? :shrug:

Seriously man. Give the recession talk a rest, please.