SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[staplesla]

its not coming to san diego...

Why are you always so negative about everything in San Diego, and why do you believe HSR won't come to SD?

My husband has been working on the design for years on the line. It may or may not end up being the first line. But at least it is a huge start for CA, which will allow for the eventual expansion down here.

We have to start somewhere.

[Fusey]

Why are you always so negative about everything in San Diego, and why do you believe HSR won't come to SD?

My husband has been working on the design for years on the line. It may or may not end up being the first line. But at least it is a huge start for CA, which will allow for the eventual expansion down here.

We have to start somewhere.

The soonest SD will see it is 2030. Ugh... I'll be near retirement then... :haha:

I still have budgetary concerns about this project, but ah well.

Just out of curiosity, does your husband work for URS? I worked for them for about 3 years and know they received a couple early contracts for HSR (I was only involved with bridges and highways).

[bmfarley]

The soonest SD will see it is 2030. Ugh... I'll be near retirement then... :haha:

I still have budgetary concerns about this project, but ah well.

Just out of curiosity, does your husband work for URS? I worked for them for about 3 years and know they received a couple early contracts for HSR (I was only involved with bridges and highways).
PB also been very active with HSR and they have offices locally. Including downtown.

Imo, I do not believe one iota that local citizens, business leaders and elected officials will tolerate HSR only serving the streches between LA and SF. Those in Sac and SD will demand it. There is no reason why this area would tolerate having 2nd rate access serving the region when our bigger cousins have 1st rate stuff. This region will be at a disadvantage right off the bat. In fact, consideration should to be given right away from local decison makers to consider efforts to minimize the interim period when there is no connection to SD while there is plenty to the north.

[staplesla]

No my husband is with HDR, Inc.

[HurricaneHugo]

Imo, I do not believe one iota that local citizens, business leaders and elected officials will tolerate HSR only serving the streches between LA and SF. Those in Sac and SD will demand it. There is no reason why this area would tolerate having 2nd rate access serving the region when our bigger cousins have 1st rate stuff. This region will be at a disadvantage right off the bat. In fact, consideration should to be given right away from local decison makers to consider efforts to minimize the interim period when there is no connection to SD while there is plenty to the north.

Yeah because they demanded a first rate airport and got i.......oh wait...

A first class stadium and got i..........oh wait...

[Fusey]

PB also been very active with HSR and they have offices locally. Including downtown.

Imo, I do not believe one iota that local citizens, business leaders and elected officials will tolerate HSR only serving the streches between LA and SF. Those in Sac and SD will demand it. There is no reason why this area would tolerate having 2nd rate access serving the region when our bigger cousins have 1st rate stuff. This region will be at a disadvantage right off the bat. In fact, consideration should to be given right away from local decison makers to consider efforts to minimize the interim period when there is no connection to SD while there is plenty to the north.

I'm looking over the CAHSR's latest business plan, and honestly, I'm not that impressed. 1 hour and 53 minutes from Sac to SF? And that's the express time frame. I've driven from Sac to SF in 90 minutes, so HSR won't deter me to get out of my car much when I'm up north (granted this time frame does not include the Altamont Pass alignment, but that will most likely be phase 2.5 or phase 3). Same goes for the hour and 18 minutes from SD to LA. But I digress...


No my husband is with HDR, Inc.

Ah, worked for them for them too (2003-2005)! Unfortunately most of it involved the Knik Arms Crossing which is why I left. Good to hear HDR got involved early on. With exception of the bridge to nowhere (may it stay dead forever) they've got some solid projects lined up. :cheers:

[bmfarley]

I'm looking over the CAHSR's latest business plan, and honestly, I'm not that impressed.

Same here. I scanned through it and saw every subject that needed to be addressed, but at an insufficient level of detail. I find it hard to fathom that private sector interests would be interested in financial participation with the shallow detail provided. I can only imagine that what was released was for public consumption and a more detailed version, consistent with what we see now, will be provided to financial institutions and other private interests. Wht was released really does not seem worthy of much of my time.

[staplesla]

Yeah because they demanded a first rate airport and got i.......oh wait...

A first class stadium and got i..........oh wait...

I agree totally. I've lived in NYC, Dallas, and Germany, and when I moved here I was amazed at how poor the SD airport is.

Just imagine with a larger airport, and with the runway capability to land more planes, how much additional revenue and jobs would be generated for this area. Plus this area is such a tourist hotspot but we limit that activity with a joke of an airport and cruise terminal.

I'm a personal fan of Mayor Sanders, but disagree with his proposed new airport terminal. It's almost like the current bailout plans. All it does it put the proverbial "lipstick on a pig." You can add as many gates as you want, but without the additional landing capacity through more runways, it won't make any difference in the long run. And in 20-30 years we are going to be dealing with this problem again. I've actually argued about this recently with Councilmen Scott Peters and Jim Madaffer.

It just bothers me that of every city I've lived in San Diego seems to be the least progressive in their thinking and almost reactionary to most problems.

But HurricaneHugo, as with any issue whether mundane, or to something of civil rights, etc....you have to continue to raise your voice and let your thoughts be heard or nothing will ever change.

[bmfarley]

^^^ I would agree with that; that the proposed transit terminal on the east side of the runways is putting lipstick on a pig.

And, although HSR may result in a modal shift for some in-state travel (from air to rail) and mitigate some projected demand at Lindbergh, Lindbergh is still deficient when it comes to handling larger aircraft for valuable connections to international business locations.

[Fusey]

It's too bad there really isn't a place to build a new airport in SD County. Maybe if the Marines leave Miramar, but obviously that wasn't very popular a couple of years ago. I can't even imagine how much the land along the bay would be worth if Lindbergh were theoretically decommissioned.

[staplesla]

It's too bad there really isn't a place to build a new airport in SD County. Maybe if the Marines leave Miramar, but obviously that wasn't very popular a couple of years ago. I can't even imagine how much the land along the bay would be worth if Lindbergh were theoretically decommissioned.

In my conversations with the city council I've suggested they look at the land east of Miramar. It is mostly undeveloped, you won't have to worry about pissing off the neighbors, no tall buildings to worry about for height restrictions, and it is centrally located in the county considering the huge growth in North County. And you'd have pretty easy access off the 52 which could be widened easily to the 15th, Miramar could be expanded from the 15, the 125 from the 8, and the 67 from Scripps Poway. The trolley could also be extended from the Santee line to connect to the airport.

[Fusey]

I can see that as doable, but (if I'm thinking of the same area you mentioned) leveling that terrain would be a nightmare. Besides the terrain my biggest concern would be the amount of air traffic between MCAS Miramar and Montgomery Field. Luckily the areas between the 805 and the 15 north of Aero Drive are mostly warehouses and industrial.

[CoastersBolts]

East Miramar = NIMBYism beyond belief from Scripps Ranch, Tierrasanta, and possibly even Santee.

It makes the best possible location yes, because of the space. But I just don't see East Miramar happening for the above reason.

[yerfdog]

I agree East Miramar could be problematic. That is definitely pretty mountainous terrain, and I doubt Santee would want a major airport just northwest of there.

What about down in Southeast SD county, closer to the border?

[bushman61988]

I agree East Miramar could be problematic. That is definitely pretty mountainous terrain, and I doubt Santee would want a major airport just northwest of there.

What about down in Southeast SD county, closer to the border?

The East Miramar Site was ruled out because of the mountainous terrain. I'm not sure exactly what the problem was, whether it was unlevel land, or the dangerous approach over the eastern mountains.

I know for sure the Otay Border airport was ruled out because there was almost no way that the airplanes coming from the East could safely land over all the high mountains only a few miles east.

[staplesla]

I agree East Miramar could be problematic. That is definitely pretty mountainous terrain, and I doubt Santee would want a major airport just northwest of there.

What about down in Southeast SD county, closer to the border?

I understand the problems landing from the east, but runways running north/south would alleviate the problem. I've worked on this very thing for airports in Asia and leveling the area needed isn't as complicated as it sounds. We do it on a smaller scale for highways.

My only frustration is that if we don't do something within the next 10 years sprawl will take over the entire area and the only options will be Miramar, or something off-shore which will be very expensive.

[Fusey]

I'm no expert when it comes to flight patterns, but wouldn't a north-south alignment conflict with planes from Montgomery Field?

[staplesla]

I'm no expert when it comes to flight patterns, but wouldn't a north-south alignment conflict with planes from Montgomery Field?

No. Montgomery Field is actually closer to Miramar and there are no current problems. Also, many cities have much larger airports near each other; i.e., Dallas has DFW airport, and Love Field fairly close and both are much busier than SD Int'l airport and certainly Montgomery Field; NYC has Laguardia and JFK basically on either side of Queens.

[SDCAL]

why not have another vote on Miramar?

I think the previous campaign in favor of moving the airport was poorly conducted. Maybe now with the economic downturn people would be more concerned with economic over convinience of a small airport right near downtown

Other propositions get voted on over and over, look at Prop 4, and abortion issue, it has been included in and failed the last 3 elections

[Fusey]

Any time massive spending is involved locally it can be political suicide. Imagine if Bloomberg tried getting the football stadium built for the Jets after it was rejected. As far as I know that abortion measure that keeps on popping up is from anti-abortion groups, rather than someone with a notable position in government.

[staplesla]

why not have another vote on Miramar?

I think the previous campaign in favor of moving the airport was poorly conducted. Maybe now with the economic downturn people would be more concerned with economic over convinience of a small airport right near downtown

Other propositions get voted on over and over, look at Prop 4, and abortion issue, it has been included in and failed the last 3 elections

With Obama stating he's going to cut defense spending this may be the only time to push something again at Miramar.

[tdavis]

Something has got to be done and soon with the airport. Though maybe a bit slow now, air traffic will no doubt continue to grow over the next 30 years.

Jerry Sanders plan to build the new terminal off the I-5 is a joke. All it does it waste taxpayers money for a shiny new terminal with no room for future expansion. Plus like others have said on here, the one short runway is limiting in the amount of planes that can land and takeoff on a daily basis, and it doesn't allow for the newer wide-body planes.

San Diego is a freaking tourist mecca for crying out loud and we should have major flights to and from Asia and Australia considering our proximity, and our weather. Airports are major creaters for wealth and jobs but our councilmen and mayor don't seem to get it.

[SDCAL]

With Obama stating he's going to cut defense spending this may be the only time to push something again at Miramar.

excellent point, maybe the Feds will close Miramar. That's our only hope, the majority of people here have already proven they are anti-progress so the only way would be big brother coming in and shutting it down

[SDCAL]

Something has got to be done and soon with the airport. Though maybe a bit slow now, air traffic will no doubt continue to grow over the next 30 years.

Jerry Sanders plan to build the new terminal off the I-5 is a joke. All it does it waste taxpayers month for a shiny new terminal with no room for future expansion. Plus like others have said on here, the one short runway is limiting in the amount of planes that can land and takeoff on a daily basis, and it doesn't allow for the newer wide-body planes.

San Diego is a freaking tourist mecca for crying out loud and we should have major flights to and from Asia and Australia considering our proximity, and our weather. Airports are major creaters for wealth and jobs but our councilmen and mayor don't seem to get it.


it boggles my mind that the current plan so blatantly ignores the 10,000 lb gorilla in the room - - the ONE, SHORT runway

it makes absolutely no sense to sink millions into an airport before this fundamental problem has been addressed - -

[Fusey]

San Diego is a freaking tourist mecca for crying out loud and we should have major flights to and from Asia and Australia considering our proximity, and our weather. Airports are major creaters for wealth and jobs but our councilmen and mayor don't seem to get it.

I've been thinking that for a long time as well. Besides the budget/pension problems, I think a new airport and a developed waterfront should be San Diego's top priorities. Perhaps better transit linking the city's tourist hotspots as well (PB, the Zoo, Gaslamp, etc.).

[tdavis]

I've been thinking that for a long time as well. Besides the budget/pension problems, I think a new airport and a developed waterfront should be San Diego's top priorities. Perhaps better transit linking the city's tourist hotspots as well (PB, the Zoo, Gaslamp, etc.).

The waterfront of downtown San Diego is right now honestly a joke. I love San Diego and with our wonderful climate and ability to be outdoors 24/7 this city is lacking in vision. New York City has the amazing Battery Park with ferry's, restaurants, and streets vendors. Australia has beautiful waterfront parks with beaches, open lawns. Miami has South Beach. And San Diego, which arguable has the better climate than all, has a fairly narrow sidewalk full of homeless people running between a run-down cruise ship terminal area to the convention center.

And personally, though I like the design of the convention center, I think it walls off a large portion of our bay from downtown. In reality, when convention center attendees go to the halls they are stuck inside and don't see the bay anyway. It should have been designed a few blocks inland, allowing for that area to be accessible by all downtown residents and visitors to enjoy the bay.

And the failed deck near the Hilton, though very flawed in the way it was presented to the public and thrown together at what seemed the last minute, at least offered a glimpse of what could be offered for downtown residents and visitors.

I've had 3 friends visit in the past 6 months. Each loved the beaches, Balboa Park, and the weather of course. But, when I took them downtown each mentioned that they felt the area was uninviting and was boring (minus Gaslamp to Petco), and I caught myself having to defend things that in the long run I guess I agreed with them on.

My best-friend from college said last week - "I thought San Diego was supposed to be a great coastal city. Coronado and La Jolla have obviously embraced the coast, but San Diego seems to not care about the waterfront at all."

[HurricaneHugo]

failed deck near the hilton?

[Fusey]

Meh. That project was a joke. Ports aren't the prettiest things in the world, but they are necessary. The deck would have been problematic to the SD port's operations which many local companies (especially NASSCO) and the military depend upon.

Gothenburg wants to redevelop its waterfront like San Diego does, but many areas are simply off-limits due to similar situations (in Gothenburg's case it's the main port for Nordic countries and Volvo operations next to it).

[tdavis]

Meh. That project was a joke. Ports aren't the prettiest things in the world, but they are necessary. The deck would have been problematic to the SD port's operations which many local companies (especially NASSCO) and the military depend upon.

Gothenburg wants to redevelop its waterfront like San Diego does, but many areas are simply off-limits due to similar situations (in Gothenburg's case it's the main port for Nordic countries and Volvo operations next to it).

I agree that project was flawed, the reason I voted No. But I do like that it gets people talking. I don't agree with your statement though that many areas are off limits. In 100-200 years things like this will have to be considered due to increased density and population growth.

[Fusey]

My apologies, I didn't mean some areas are completely off-limits, but rather that some projects are financially or structurally flawed and shouldn't even be considered, such as putting a deck over the port. If a project was proposed that redeveloped the port and made the city more money I'd be all for it.

[Derek]

East Miramar = NIMBYism beyond belief from Scripps Ranch, Tierrasanta, and possibly even Santee.

It makes the best possible location yes, because of the space. But I just don't see East Miramar happening for the above reason.



Eminent domain! :)

[staplesla]

Eminent domain! :)

I lived in the most affluent area in Dallas (Highland Park) which is located 15 blocks from Dallas Love Field airport. The people there are just use to it and don't complain. Locals here will need to get over it or we'll be in a lot of hurt in the future when it comes to local air travel.

[ShekelPop]

Vantage Pointe's crane is coming down, from CCDC:

The tower crane for Vantage Pointe, the 40-story, 679-unit condominium project at Tenth Avenue and B Street, is scheduled to be disassembled and removed Thursday, Nov. 13 through Saturday, Nov. 20.

Anyone have any recent up close shots? I haven't made it downtown recently.

[Derek]

I was just down there. No shots. :(


It looks good though!



If only Brake Depot would somehow...disappear. :P

[eburress]

I lived in the most affluent area in Dallas (Highland Park) which is located 15 blocks from Dallas Love Field airport. The people there are just use to it and don't complain. Locals here will need to get over it or we'll be in a lot of hurt in the future when it comes to local air travel.

Hey, another former Dallasite! I was born here in SD, but I grew up in Richardson and have also lived in Plano and Frisco. It seems like half the people in San Diego used to live in Dallas! ;)

So, you understand how incredibly frustrating it is living here. So much of the bullshit we deal with here in San Diego (e.g., NIMBYism) just doesn't happen in Dallas. People in North Texas WANT Dallas to be a great city and are willing to make a few sacrifices to make it happen, whereas here, people are more concerned about their own needs, not to mention that they seem to want to keep things the way they were 50 years ago.

San Diego could be one of the World's greatest cities but the people who live here do EVERYTHING they can to keep that from happening. This city's residents are collectively screwing up a wet dream.

[staplesla]

Hey, another former Dallasite! I was born here in SD, but I grew up in Richardson and have also lived in Plano and Frisco. It seems like half the people in San Diego used to live in Dallas! ;)

So, you understand how incredibly frustrating it is living here. So much of the bullshit we deal with here in San Diego (e.g., NIMBYism) just doesn't happen in Dallas. People in North Texas WANT Dallas to be a great city and are willing to make a few sacrifices to make it happen, whereas here, people are more concerned about their own needs, not to mention that they seem to want to keep things the way they were 50 years ago.

San Diego could be one of the World's greatest cities but the people who live here do EVERYTHING they can to keep that from happening. This city's residents are collectively screwing up a wet dream.

I agree totally. I loved Dallas, the shopping and food choices were much better, but I couldn't get over the 110 degree temperatures. ;)

From a culture diversity standpoint I think you can't get much better than NYC. For a quality of life standpoint I think San Diego offers more than any other city in the U.S. (the reason we moved here). We've been here two years now and I just see a lack of vision by people here, especially the leaders to pump up the excitement about various projects. I'm not sure why that is so though.

With all this area has to offer we seem to hold progress back. And considering the beaches, mountains, weather, parks, etc. this area should be a tourist mecca and should be reaping in the the cash and should not be in financial trouble.

[bmfarley]

Mmm.... me too. I live near Love Field for a year, then near Forest & Marsh Lane... then in Denton Tx. I have family in Mansfield.

[obendega]

Anyone have any recent up close shots? I haven't made it downtown recently.

Funny you should ask, I was just testing out my new D90 downtown yesterday.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p43/obendega/20081114VantagePoint.jpg

[HurricaneHugo]

purdy

[obendega]

Setai San Diego is looking pretty good too.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p43/obendega/20081114Setai.jpg

[eburress]

Mmm.... me too. I live near Love Field for a year, then near Forest & Marsh Lane... then in Denton Tx. I have family in Mansfield.

See, I really do think half the people in San Diego used to live in Dallas...and if not in Dallas, somewhere in Texas. Not to get too off-topic, but when I bought my house in Carmel Valley, it turned out that the people I bought it from were moving to Dallas, the neighbors on both sides were from Dallas, and the guy in the house behind mine was a childhood friend of mine who grew up in the same neighborhood in Richardson. Weird.

[Marina_Guy]

The waterfront of downtown San Diego is right now honestly a joke. I love San Diego and with our wonderful climate and ability to be outdoors 24/7 this city is lacking in vision. New York City has the amazing Battery Park with ferry's, restaurants, and streets vendors. Australia has beautiful waterfront parks with beaches, open lawns. Miami has South Beach. And San Diego, which arguable has the better climate than all, has a fairly narrow sidewalk full of homeless people running between a run-down cruise ship terminal area to the convention center.

And personally, though I like the design of the convention center, I think it walls off a large portion of our bay from downtown. In reality, when convention center attendees go to the halls they are stuck inside and don't see the bay anyway. It should have been designed a few blocks inland, allowing for that area to be accessible by all downtown residents and visitors to enjoy the bay.

And the failed deck near the Hilton, though very flawed in the way it was presented to the public and thrown together at what seemed the last minute, at least offered a glimpse of what could be offered for downtown residents and visitors.

I've had 3 friends visit in the past 6 months. Each loved the beaches, Balboa Park, and the weather of course. But, when I took them downtown each mentioned that they felt the area was uninviting and was boring (minus Gaslamp to Petco), and I caught myself having to defend things that in the long run I guess I agreed with them on.

My best-friend from college said last week - "I thought San Diego was supposed to be a great coastal city. Coronado and La Jolla have obviously embraced the coast, but San Diego seems to not care about the waterfront at all."

Thanks for your comments. Very well put. These issues have been around for decades downtown and the vision to embrace the waterfront has never been articulated by our leaders. View corridors continue to be compromised, public spaces are poorly designed, and those who show up for public meetings on these issues are just NIMBYs or conspiracy theorists. Just think about this... The council district that represents downtown also represents Pt Loma and the Beaches... Good god.

[kpexpress]

See, I really do think half the people in San Diego used to live in Dallas...and if not in Dallas, somewhere in Texas. Not to get too off-topic, but when I bought my house in Carmel Valley, it turned out that the people I bought it from were moving to Dallas, the neighbors on both sides were from Dallas, and the guy in the house behind mine was a childhood friend of mine who grew up in the same neighborhood in Richardson. Weird.

I worked in Dallas over the summer. I lived on Mockingbird Lane next to the DART Station. Interesting town.

[SDCAL]

Originally Posted by tdavis
"The waterfront of downtown San Diego is right now honestly a joke"

Well, it looks like it's going to stay a joke much longer. Now Lane Field is stalled by the state coastal commission:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The California Coastal Commission has failed to approve a Coastal Development Permit for two high rise hotels on San Diego’s downtown waterfront. KPBS reporter Alison St John has more.


Port District officials say they’re disappointed. They believe the 200 foot high hotel/retail project at Lane Field will jump start improvements on San Diego’s Embarcadero.

Back in the 1950s, Lane Field was a stadium: the home of the Padres.
Currently, it’s a 5 acre parking lot at the foot of Broadway, next to the cruise ship terminal.

San Diego City councilman Ben Hueso sits on the Coastal Commission. He says the project needs to offer more solutions to increased traffic and less parking.

Hueso : We’re looking at a very large scale development along the water front, and I think all these issue regarding mass transit and parking, that all those lose ends be completely resolved when this project is approved.

The Port District’s plan offers underground parking with nearly 1300 spaces. It includes a shuttle service from the Embarcadero to downtown, and other tourist spots.

The Coastal Commission may consider the project again at their January meeting in San Diego.

Alison St John, KPBS news.
--------------------------------------------------------------------


I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO WRITE BEN HUESO A LETTER OF OUTRAGE

I am all for environmental issues, and I see the problems with Navy Broadway Complex, but come on - Lane Field? The buildings aren't even that high and they were going to put 1,300 underground parking spaces.

How the hell is leaving this a litter-collecting parking lot better for the environment???????

If we wait for all the mass-transit to come together perfectly before moving forward, we will be waiting 100 years

Has Hueso ever thought that development will help speed-up mass transit projects, not vice-versa??

ugh, this city makes me ill :slob: :slob: :slob: :slob: :slob:

[bushman61988]

Originally Posted by tdavis
"The waterfront of downtown San Diego is right now honestly a joke"

Well, it looks like it's going to stay a joke much longer. Now Lane Field is stalled by the state coastal commission:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The California Coastal Commission has failed to approve a Coastal Development Permit for two high rise hotels on San Diego’s downtown waterfront. KPBS reporter Alison St John has more.


Port District officials say they’re disappointed. They believe the 200 foot high hotel/retail project at Lane Field will jump start improvements on San Diego’s Embarcadero.

Back in the 1950s, Lane Field was a stadium: the home of the Padres.
Currently, it’s a 5 acre parking lot at the foot of Broadway, next to the cruise ship terminal.

San Diego City councilman Ben Hueso sits on the Coastal Commission. He says the project needs to offer more solutions to increased traffic and less parking.

Hueso : We’re looking at a very large scale development along the water front, and I think all these issue regarding mass transit and parking, that all those lose ends be completely resolved when this project is approved.

The Port District’s plan offers underground parking with nearly 1300 spaces. It includes a shuttle service from the Embarcadero to downtown, and other tourist spots.

The Coastal Commission may consider the project again at their January meeting in San Diego.

Alison St John, KPBS news.
--------------------------------------------------------------------


I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO WRITE BEN HUESO A LETTER OF OUTRAGE

I am all for environmental issues, and I see the problems with Navy Broadway Complex, but come on - Lane Field? The buildings aren't even that high and they were going to put 1,300 underground parking spaces.

How the hell is leaving this a litter-collecting parking lot better for the environment???????

If we wait for all the mass-transit to come together perfectly before moving forward, we will be waiting 100 years

Has Hueso ever thought that development will help speed-up mass transit projects, not vice-versa??

ugh, this city makes me ill :slob: :slob: :slob: :slob: :slob:


With the economy and credit markets as bad as they all are, it would not surprise me one bit if this project did get approved just to be shelved for a few years until everything improves.


Hopefully, with the Lane Field developers having to kind of go back to the drawing boards to correct some errors, they will come back with the original proposal with the two sail towers and not this twin-tower crap. Frankly, it's almost better that nothing be there at all than the current proposal of a bland, short, sad pair of high-end, bougie luxury towers for elite tourists on one of the most prime waterfront locations on the west coast...which is so San Diego...

[staplesla]

3:37 p.m. November 17, 2008
CHULA VISTA – Gaylord Entertainment, the developer that Chula Vista hoped would finally turn around the city's bayfront with a $1 billion hotel and convention center, has pulled out of the project citing funding hurdles.

In a letter to Chula Vista Mayor Cheryl Cox and Port District president Bruce Hollingsworth, Gaylord vice president Bennett Westbrook said he is disappointed with the outcome.

Even though the company made strides in smoothing community conflicts and negotiating the regulations governing bayfront development, it was not enough, Westbrook said in the letter.

“We have been unable to overcome perhaps the biggest hurdle of the project – funding the enormous infrastructure costs associated with the bayfront redevelopment in a manner that will generate adequate financial returns for Gaylord, the port and the city,” the letter says.

Councilman Steve Castaneda said the news is unfortunate.

“This community has banded together and worked very hard and has been very supportive (of Gaylord),” he said. “I think it was important to know exactly what the future was with Gaylord.”
Last week Castaneda raised questions about whether Gaylord was still coming to Chula Vista in light of its recent decision to build in Arizona. Gaylord officials said they were still committed to Chula Vista.

In a memo to the Mayor and City Council, interim City Manager Scott Tulloch said he would be meeting with staff to review Gaylord's decision and determine the next steps for the bayfront.

Gaylord was proposing a resort hotel of 1,500 to 2,000 rooms, 400,000 square feet of meeting space, shops, a spa and fitness center, six restaurants and a rooftop bar.

“We need to get back on the horse and start over,” Castaneda said.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20081117-1537-bn17gaylord.html

[Crackertastik]

3:37 p.m. November 17, 2008
CHULA VISTA – Gaylord Entertainment, the developer that Chula Vista hoped would finally turn around the city's bayfront with a $1 billion hotel and convention center, has pulled out of the project citing funding hurdles.

In a letter to Chula Vista Mayor Cheryl Cox and Port District president Bruce Hollingsworth, Gaylord vice president Bennett Westbrook said he is disappointed with the outcome.

Even though the company made strides in smoothing community conflicts and negotiating the regulations governing bayfront development, it was not enough, Westbrook said in the letter.

“We have been unable to overcome perhaps the biggest hurdle of the project – funding the enormous infrastructure costs associated with the bayfront redevelopment in a manner that will generate adequate financial returns for Gaylord, the port and the city,” the letter says.

Councilman Steve Castaneda said the news is unfortunate.

“This community has banded together and worked very hard and has been very supportive (of Gaylord),” he said. “I think it was important to know exactly what the future was with Gaylord.”
Last week Castaneda raised questions about whether Gaylord was still coming to Chula Vista in light of its recent decision to build in Arizona. Gaylord officials said they were still committed to Chula Vista.

In a memo to the Mayor and City Council, interim City Manager Scott Tulloch said he would be meeting with staff to review Gaylord's decision and determine the next steps for the bayfront.

Gaylord was proposing a resort hotel of 1,500 to 2,000 rooms, 400,000 square feet of meeting space, shops, a spa and fitness center, six restaurants and a rooftop bar.

“We need to get back on the horse and start over,” Castaneda said.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20081117-1537-bn17gaylord.html

This is potentially bad news and potentially good news. I think this may open a flip flop play for Chula Vista and the Chargers. Instead of waiting endlessly for the Powerplant issue (itll be a while) to resolve, the Chargers should move hard to utilize this land for the stadium and development of hotel/living/leisure/park. And then say they will assist with the development of the Powerplant site later once that issue is resolved in the building of a convention center, more hotels, and restaurants/bars, etc.

Basically do the stadium first on the available site with the known entity that wants to do development on the bayfront, and do the development gaylord was to do with an unknown entity on a site that will become free later. flip flop the order and locations.

No need to let the bayfront sit there forever in limbo. Get to work on what wants to be built now.

[ceejay]

How about Lane Field as the new home of the San Diego Chargers? Imagine a beautiful (architecture complimenting the harbor) stadium at the core of downtown, views of the bay and One America Plaza hovering over, and Santa Fe Depot as it's main transportation hub. We can only dream San Diego.....or can we make it happen!!!!! Our one shot at opportunity!

[lakegz]

That company has GOT to change its name!

[tdavis]

How about Lane Field as the new home of the San Diego Chargers? Imagine a beautiful (architecture complimenting the harbor) stadium at the core of downtown, views of the bay and One America Plaza hovering over, and Santa Fe Depot as it's main transportation hub. We can only dream San Diego.....or can we make it happen!!!!! Our one shot at opportunity!

We already have the convention center walling off part of the bay, we don't need another huge building doing the same at the north side of the Embarcadero.

[dl3000]

Yeah Lane Field is no place for a stadium. That property is too prime anyway.

[eburress]

IMO, an even more ideal place for a stadium would be over at Lindbergh Field.

[kpexpress]

The area where Lindbergh field is a zoned NOT for airport use, rather "special zone" indicating that the city, maybe someday, will actually use it for something really "special" as the zoning name indicates. I would love to see a series of canals (being that it is at sea level) sort of like Venice around an impressive multi sports arena (something impressive like what's in Beijing). That way we could finally host a summer games and people could go to the charger games on their boats and restaurant/bar hop on their boats like they do in Ft. Lauderdale. That would be sweet, but the zoning would have to be strict not to bring too much competition to downtown high rises.

With the airport gone (hopefully Miramar, with transit [high speed] to downtown) we would finally see a 1000 footer built in the core. I am betting this will happen on the lot that is currently occupied by the old California Theater (C Street and 5th Ave).

As for the convention center, it IS a wall that really blocks all view corridors to the bay and access (until the harbor bridge pedestrian bridge is completed) for all East Village and most of the Gaslamp from accessing the bay. Any further developments (which I am in support of) should be done like they do in Vancouver (Our city already looks so much like it) there they expand perpendicular to the bay front out on piers into the harbor. This is how it should have been done in the first place. And the railroad/trolley tracks should be built underground and harbor drive too, this will open up more land for development and open park area in that area, but if there was decent access to the bay than we wouldn't need more park space, people would ACTUALLY use those embarcedaro parks that are on the bayside of the convention center.

Okay, i am gettting off my soapbox. Any comments?

[staplesla]

The area where Lindbergh field is a zoned NOT for airport use, rather "special zone" indicating that the city, maybe someday, will actually use it for something really "special" as the zoning name indicates. I would love to see a series of canals (being that it is at sea level) sort of like Venice around an impressive multi sports arena (something impressive like what's in Beijing). That way we could finally host a summer games and people could go to the charger games on their boats and restaurant/bar hop on their boats like they do in Ft. Lauderdale. That would be sweet, but the zoning would have to be strict not to bring too much competition to downtown high rises.

With the airport gone (hopefully Miramar, with transit [high speed] to downtown) we would finally see a 1000 footer built in the core. I am betting this will happen on the lot that is currently occupied by the old California Theater (C Street and 5th Ave).

As for the convention center, it IS a wall that really blocks all view corridors to the bay and access (until the harbor bridge pedestrian bridge is completed) for all East Village and most of the Gaslamp from accessing the bay. Any further developments (which I am in support of) should be done like they do in Vancouver (Our city already looks so much like it) there they expand perpendicular to the bay front out on piers into the harbor. This is how it should have been done in the first place. And the railroad/trolley tracks should be built underground and harbor drive too, this will open up more land for development and open park area in that area, but if there was decent access to the bay than we wouldn't need more park space, people would ACTUALLY use those embarcedaro parks that are on the bayside of the convention center.

Okay, i am gettting off my soapbox. Any comments?

I agree with your comments. For the last 3 years I've worked on a similar canal project for the city of Fort Worth. They are flooding part of the area north of downtown to create a city lake and canals. The army corps of engineers started the change in the waterways a few months ago, and about 15 of the mid to high-rise structures are being built in the area that is now being called "Uptown." Tulsa has a similar project under development called Tulsa Channels.

Anyway, the Trinity River Vision has created a lot of buzz in Fort Worth and developers are lining up right and left to build in the area. Here are some pics of the Uptown Fort Worth Development.

http://www.alstaplesassociates.com/images/othersites/uptown.jpg
http://www.alstaplesassociates.com/images/othersites/uptown3.gif
http://www.alstaplesassociates.com/images/othersites/uptown2.jpg

[Crackertastik]

Hey, seeing as we are talking about the airport area...here is my vision.

A forum guy here or on SSC provided a map of uptown that i built upon. (THX) So basically i built out downtown SD 2050 with a big emphasis on greenery and iconic buildings. From the 5 to the waterfront there is a lowrise avenue with green roof parks. Harbor drive is underground with park on top that goes from downtown to uptown and follow it all the way to the convention center. I expanded the convention center with my own idea. Again more greenery.

There is a ton of park space for the transition from downtown to uptown. This is filled with either open space or low rise allowing a great view corridor for the hills. Uptown is like my urban interpretation of central park. A huge park with surrounding urban density. Reverse central park. This is mostly iconic buildings and tall. Tallest of the two areas. Also i added a low to mid level building/canal design. So lots of San Antonio river walk style areas. And of course a huge open waterfront with view corridors open. Lastly, a nice opera house and arena on the bay.

overview...
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1650/sandiego2050jpgsv5.th.jpg (http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sandiego2050jpgsv5.jpg)http://img175.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

from overhead...
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2117/sd2050toprh0.th.jpg (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sd2050toprh0.jpg)http://img167.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
downtown from northern tip of coronado...
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/907/sandiego2050downtowncorhe2.th.jpg (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sandiego2050downtowncorhe2.jpg)http://img518.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

downtown/midtown transition...
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5629/sandiego2050uptowngreenbn9.th.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sandiego2050uptowngreenbn9.jpg)http://img156.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

uptown from northern coronado...
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4314/sandiego2050uptowngv4.th.jpg (http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sandiego2050uptowngv4.jpg)http://img266.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

my convention center idea...stacked level on top, glass walls on both east and west sides and roof park...
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6108/conventioncenter2050lq5.th.jpg (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=conventioncenter2050lq5.jpg)http://img167.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

Skyline from horizon showing both uptown and downtown...
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6746/cityskyline1mb4.th.png (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cityskyline1mb4.png)http://img167.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

[kpexpress]

This would be a HUGE disservice to San Diego. We DONT need a central park, we have Balboa Park (the largest urban park in North America) we need transit going up fifth avenue to the park and hillcrest. The model that you have posted here, is great in detail, but all of which would really not go well for the city. First of all, this is San Dubai, not the classic southern california lazy beach city that it is. Now don't get me wrong, I love progressive everything, and the thought of San Diego being called lazy drives me crazy, but this is not the answer. We are a community with our own identity, not an eclectic wannabe.

[Crackertastik]

This would be a HUGE disservice to San Diego. We DONT need a central park, we have Balboa Park (the largest urban park in North America) we need transit going up fifth avenue to the park and hillcrest. The model that you have posted here, is great in detail, but all of which would really not go well for the city. First of all, this is San Dubai, not the classic southern california lazy beach city that it is. Now don't get me wrong, I love progressive everything, and the thought of San Diego being called lazy drives me crazy, but this is not the answer. We are a community with our own identity, not an eclectic wannabe.

You have no idea how badly you contradict yourself in this statement and past statements. You love progressive everything yet hold firmly onto the classic southern california lazy "beach city" idea. San Diego is not a lazy beach city. It is the home of over a million people with beaches AND urban areas. The conservative mindset you display here is why things NEVER change in our city.

Secondly, you state with a touch of spite that we are a community with our own identity and not an eclectic wannabe, yet throw out ideas of canals like Venice, Italy. SO original and VERY Southern California.

And i never said do a central park, i know of Balboa Park. I said an urban interpretation of central park. Meaning open space surrounding "an island" of urbanism. That is not a wannabe idea as i can't think of many places with that concept. Nothing within the bay of San Diego jeopardizes your lazy beach city dream. As far as i can tell, the crescent area of San Diego as it is now doesn't seem to effect the lazy beach city idea, and its a dang airport right now.

Perhaps it is too Dubai, meaning vertical, for your taste, and that is fine, but let's try to not contradict ourselves and spew gospel that isn't gospel when really its just your opinion that differs.

[SDDTProspector]

Crackertastik nailed it.....

Great vision, Like the fact that its a city, not a tourist destination/ scam.

I could see "sea world proudly presents the canals of italy in san diego", forget the fluff give me some substance, a real city......

[dl3000]

You have no idea how badly you contradict yourself in this statement and past statements. You love progressive everything yet hold firmly onto the classic southern california lazy "beach city" idea. San Diego is not a lazy beach city. It is the home of over a million people with beaches AND urban areas. The conservative mindset you display here is why things NEVER change in our city.

Secondly, you state with a touch of spite that we are a community with our own identity and not an eclectic wannabe, yet throw out ideas of canals like Venice, Italy. SO original and VERY Southern California.

And i never said do a central park, i know of Balboa Park. I said an urban interpretation of central park. Meaning open space surrounding "an island" of urbanism. That is not a wannabe idea as i can't think of many places with that concept. Nothing within the bay of San Diego jeopardizes your lazy beach city dream. As far as i can tell, the crescent area of San Diego as it is now doesn't seem to effect the lazy beach city idea, and its a dang airport right now.

Perhaps it is too Dubai, meaning vertical, for your taste, and that is fine, but let's try to not contradict ourselves and spew gospel that isn't gospel when really its just your opinion that differs.

I really like the design. Gives other west coast skylines like San Francisco a run for their money. I had a similar idea, I really like the green belt around the vertical urban core but in my idea there would be a nice intermodal terminal nestled somewhere to the northeast or northwest of where you have the Uptown Green that would converge pretty much all the transportation for the region like high speed rail, trolley, whatever else futuristic transit (subway in my dreams), brt, bus, amtrak. That way they dont need to route the high speed rail through the dense urban street network they can just cut it under the 5 right into this terminal. also an airport express train can depart from here since the airport will obviously be somewhere else, potentially far. it would basically replace Santa Fe and santa fe would be more a landmark trolley station maybe turned museum. just my 2 cents. otherwise i love the layout. just because san diego has awesome beach communities, a vibrant iconic downtown wont take away from that.

[Crackertastik]

I really like the design. Gives other west coast skylines like San Francisco a run for their money. I had a similar idea, I really like the green belt around the vertical urban core but in my idea there would be a nice intermodal terminal nestled somewhere to the northeast or northwest of where you have the Uptown Green that would converge pretty much all the transportation for the region like high speed rail, trolley, whatever else futuristic transit (subway in my dreams), brt, bus, amtrak. That way they dont need to route the high speed rail through the dense urban street network they can just cut it under the 5 right into this terminal. also an airport express train can depart from here since the airport will obviously be somewhere else, potentially far. it would basically replace Santa Fe and santa fe would be more a landmark trolley station maybe turned museum. just my 2 cents. otherwise i love the layout. just because san diego has awesome beach communities, a vibrant iconic downtown wont take away from that.

I think that idea is PERFECT. A hub that heads east for the airport, north for the high speed rail to LA, and is central to both downtown and uptown. That would be THE BEST THING EVER in capital letters. Imagine Tourists coming in to San Diego, by plane and then rail to the hub, or by high speed rail from up north. Both entering the city before embarking and having so many choices. The bayfront is sitting there in site over an expansive green area. A tall viewing tower. The Uptown City to the west or the Downtown City to the south. Local lines to move you around both up and downtown, mission valley, to Chula Vista's waterfront, to Coronado Island, to Mission Bay and to the Beaches.

Why not also create a canal project spanning from the big bay to the little bay. There was an idea floating around about this at one point. That way the canal idea has function and style.

I also envision an iconic bridge in 2100 spanning from north coronado island to the center of the uptown area. If the Navy were to ever unload Coronado Island you would see a HUGE residential boom there, and the need to get those people to uptown and the 5 freeway. That is assuming military strategy in 2100 would be different (and no i don't WISH that would happen, i can just envision it).

[sdFan09]

I see a great future with the military in San Diego but I hate the fact that they have so many bases here. Why do we need both a Marine Corps Air Station and a Naval Air Station, a Marine Corps Base, a Naval Base and an Anti-Submarine Base at Point Loma. The Navy could still be a big part of San Diego if they closed down one or two of the bases (preferably Miramar for an airport site) that take up some of the most prime real-estate in the city.

If Miramar were to be used as an Airport it would be centrally located, the neighbors couldn't complain about noise because they already have to deal with Naval Flights. Since the HSR is already supposed to go down the 15 it would be a logical stop too. We could run a trolley line up the 163(through Hillcrest/Balboa) and the 15 up to Miramesa or RB and run a trolley line/people mover from the proposed trolley line up the 5 to the airport location. Therefore the airport would be completely connected by mass transit options going in all directions and plenty of freeways.

We could then develop the current Lindbergh site, hopefully a sports arena, stadium and some mid-rise and high-rise development. The height restrictions would be gone so we could finally get some real skyscrapers. The city would also make money by selling the land at Lindbergh, Qualcomm and the Sports Arena Site. Later on, there would be lots of infill between the Lindbergh Site Development and Current Downtown which would make the Embarcadero much more walkable.

I like the idea of a canal between "Big Bay" and "Little Bay" also.

[tdavis]

Crackertastik nailed it.....

Great vision, Like the fact that its a city, not a tourist destination/ scam.

I could see "sea world proudly presents the canals of italy in san diego", forget the fluff give me some substance, a real city......

I second that. It's nice to see someone in this city have some vision.

[eburress]

Hey, seeing as we are talking about the airport area...here is my vision.

A forum guy here or on SSC provided a map of uptown that i built upon. (THX) So basically i built out downtown SD 2050 with a big emphasis on greenery and iconic buildings. From the 5 to the waterfront there is a lowrise avenue with green roof parks. Harbor drive is underground with park on top that goes from downtown to uptown and follow it all the way to the convention center. I expanded the convention center with my own idea. Again more greenery.

There is a ton of park space for the transition from downtown to uptown. This is filled with either open space or low rise allowing a great view corridor for the hills. Uptown is like my urban interpretation of central park. A huge park with surrounding urban density. Reverse central park. This is mostly iconic buildings and tall. Tallest of the two areas. Also i added a low to mid level building/canal design. So lots of San Antonio river walk style areas. And of course a huge open waterfront with view corridors open. Lastly, a nice opera house and arena on the bay.


from overhead...
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2117/sd2050toprh0.th.jpg (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sd2050toprh0.jpg)http://img167.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
downtown from northern tip of coronado...
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/907/sandiego2050downtowncorhe2.th.jpg (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sandiego2050downtowncorhe2.jpg)http://img518.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)


Looks great...and I'm not just saying that because the "Uptown" map I made is in there!! :)

I personally see the airport area featuring more mid-rise buildings (5-15 story range), but your San Dubai vision is cool too!

[Crackertastik]

Looks great...and I'm not just saying that because the "Uptown" map I made is in there!! :)

I personally see the airport area featuring more mid-rise buildings (5-15 story range), but your San Dubai vision is cool too!

Awesome map and overall general layout. I love it. Apologies for not asking to use it, but heck its for fun anyway. I just 3d-ized it.

I think midrises would be fine, if that meant that height would push higher and higher in the downtown area. I would be cool with that too.

[kpexpress]

San Dubai is not a good idea. Eclectic...what I meant by that is I think we need to think outside the box and not pick and choose from what's already been done (architecturally, not planning [meaning the canal idea is what SHOULD happen at that location]) I see a CN tower in an area where it really doesn't engage either side of your "uptown" and current downtown. While on the subject of your "downtown"....I love it! I think that this area, how you have designed it, is exactly what we need here. Dense, Tall and identifiable. I think that you could take another look at the convention center though, there is more there (potential) than how you have designed it in my opinion. The problem with your uptown area is not individual design, it is the whole concept. You must not have an area that close to downtown competing for commerce an residents. Something like that would kill the entire downtown economy and it would be a newtown (your uptown) and ghosttown (current downtown). San Diego already has enough competition with downtown, this "uptown" is the last thing we need on the waterfront. Now this is in now opposing the plan, just the intense height and focus of that area. Plus there would be literally no intercommunication done between uptown and downtown. Might as well be another city. And the congestion getting to and from the two areas. I just think that it seems like an after thought to the plan that was presented and lacks some critical thinking as to what may come about having uptown being how you have designed it. Whatever is built there should have a primary focus on the multi sports (olympic) arena, and the completely engaged by a series of canals and waterways. That would be amazing.

As far as Dubai-sing San Diego..... look at Dubai, it is as Tom Mayne put it, "an ecological disaster.." plus with all those signature buildings, there is not one that stands out (unless you build up 2600M). If they're all cool, none of them are cool. We need infill and density with some talls all located in and within our downtown. That would merit some decent transit and outerlying TODS (stadium/canal-town being one of them). Do you understand the hierarchy?

I may have been misunderstood with my comments before, but do you get my drift?

[kpexpress]

I also envision an iconic bridge in 2100 spanning from north coronado island to the center of the uptown area. If the Navy were to ever unload Coronado Island you would see a HUGE residential boom there, and the need to get those people to uptown and the 5 freeway. That is assuming military strategy in 2100 would be different (and no i don't WISH that would happen, i can just envision it).

This, I think would be amazing, but the residents of Coronado would never stand for that IMO.

If this "uptown" area (Loma Portal/Midway) really was planned to be that big, I think it would be rad to have an island strip elegantly curving from uptown and meeting up with downtown extending all the way out into the shipping lanes with parks, beaches, recreation area and even row homes with private docks on it. This would create an intimate water area for downtown/uptown yet still accessible to by boats and sea life, etc. Maybe the stadium on it's own island out in the middle of this newly created lagoon? Transit accessing it from tunnels under the water. That would be cool.

[eburress]

Awesome map and overall general layout. I love it. Apologies for not asking to use it, but heck its for fun anyway. I just 3d-ized it.

I think midrises would be fine, if that meant that height would push higher and higher in the downtown area. I would be cool with that too.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Midrises in "Uptown" and much taller towers in the more traditional Downtown area. Both ways are cool though...and yours is very reminiscent of how Singapore is developing.

No worries about using the map...it's fair game and I'm glad you put it to such good use! :)

[SDCAL]

After Obama takes office, everyone should write their congressional representatives asking they close Miramar.

A long-shot yes, but what other choice do we have?

Something needs to be done before our idiotic Airport Authority wastes a bunch of money on "band-aid" fixes for Lindergh Field.

By the way, love the creativity and vision of some of the previous posts. Wish the people in charge of planning and development had the same grand visions!!!!!!!!!

[Jobohimself]

Not to be negative, but even we did move the airport to Miramar, would SD City Ordinances still retain the height cap? San Diego doesn't have the most progressive mindset...

[staplesla]

Not to be negative, but even we did move the airport to Miramar, would SD City Ordinances still retain the height cap? San Diego doesn't have the most progressive mindset...

They could initially and I'm sure the FAA wouldn't take a proactive stance to adjust the restrictions. However, a developer would eventually file a suit and the FAA would be forced to explain to a court why the current height restrictions should remain. Because Miramar's runways run east/west they would have a tough time explaining why they should remain the same. Miramar's height restrictions extend to La Jolla, UTC, portions of the Sorento Valley, Santee, and Poway.

[SDCAL]

From CCDC meeting minutes of last meeting:
METRO CENTER DESIGN APPROVED AND RECOMMENDED FOR CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL (East Village).

Hope the city council gives approval, this type of retail is sorely needed downtown


http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/Metro%20Center%20-%20Plaza%20View%20along%20National_web.jpg

[SDCAL]

The Nolan is an office tower (office suites, one per floor) that is located on Sixth Ave between the ballpark storage building and the Hotel Solamar. Looks pretty sweet, today I biked past it and saw that they were putting in the soldier beam and lagging. Construction should move quick on this project as the scope of the whole project is quite small. But the thing should be pretty large, renderings show it towering over the Hotel Solamar by at least five floors.

Here is the project on the architects office
http://www.fehlmanlabarre.com/?#projects

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/TheNolensizedforweb.jpg

Is this in trouble?? They started excavating this summer and there was a lot of activity, now there is a hole and no activity going on. Anyone have info

[Fusey]

From CCDC meeting minutes of last meeting:
METRO CENTER DESIGN APPROVED AND RECOMMENDED FOR CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL (East Village).

Hope the city council gives approval, this type of retail is sorely needed downtown


http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/Metro%20Center%20-%20Plaza%20View%20along%20National_web.jpg

What tenants are signed on?

[obendega]

Holly crap a 747 just went by my window! Quite an unusual sight for San Diego. N623U5.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p43/obendega/20081122747.jpg

[staplesla]

Is this in trouble?? They started excavating this summer and there was a lot of activity, now there is a hole and no activity going on. Anyone have info

I might be wrong but I thought the frame for this project was already going up.

[IconRPCV]

See, I really do think half the people in San Diego used to live in Dallas...and if not in Dallas, somewhere in Texas. Not to get too off-topic, but when I bought my house in Carmel Valley, it turned out that the people I bought it from were moving to Dallas, the neighbors on both sides were from Dallas, and the guy in the house behind mine was a childhood friend of mine who grew up in the same neighborhood in Richardson. Weird.

Now I know why SD has so many problems; blame Texas.

[SDCAL]

I might be wrong but I thought the frame for this project was already going up.

no - walked by it several times the last couple weeks and no work is being done, and it's just a hole

it is still fenced off with an alternate sidewalk path but it looks like work is not progressing

they also used to have a sign up advertising the Nolan, now it's gone

[sandiegodweller]

Is this in trouble?? They started excavating this summer and there was a lot of activity, now there is a hole and no activity going on. Anyone have info

Is it in trouble? Is any project not in trouble?

[eburress]

Now I know why SD has so many problems; blame Texas.

hahaha - since Dallas doesn't have so many of San Diego's problems, I think you have to blame the people who are NOT from Texas for what's wrong with San Diego. They are the no-growth NIMBYs who ridiculously want to keep San Diego this sleepy surf town.

Seriously, if the former Texans were in charge, Miramar would have become the city's international airport long ago, there would be 1000 footers downtown, way more companies would be headquartered here, and San Diego might actually have at least one decent strip club!

[Fusey]

and San Diego might actually have at least one decent strip club!

:lmao:

[edluva]

funny you guys mention the thing about texas. that's the kind of vibe i get from visiting dt san diego is the "thick-necked" football fratboy vibe to its patrons. needless to say i wasn't into it. you guys have an envious downtown and all, clean, modern, and bustling with activity, but to be honest, i wasn't feelin the "vibe". san diego does wonderfully with 3 million and it's come a long way from its navy-town roots. i'd give it another million and a local grassroots cultural ascendancy a-la seattle's late-80s to early 90s indie/grunge renaissance for a distinctive identity to develop. i'd love for our southern neighbor to mature into a more cosmopolitan metropolis that young people desire to move to before they settle down to build families. what do you guys think??

[SDCAL]

Is it in trouble? Is any project not in trouble?

Hotel Indigo, Marriott Residence Inn, Strata, are all going up. When I said "in trouble", I meant is it not going to be built?

[SDCAL]

funny you guys mention the thing about texas. that's the kind of vibe i get from visiting dt san diego is the "thick-necked" football fratboy vibe to its patrons. needless to say i wasn't into it. you guys have an envious downtown and all, clean, modern, and bustling with activity, but to be honest, i wasn't feelin the "vibe". san diego does wonderfully with 3 million and it's come a long way from its navy-town roots. i'd give it another million and a local grassroots cultural ascendancy a-la seattle's late-80s to early 90s indie/grunge renaissance for a distinctive identity to develop. i'd love for our southern neighbor to mature into a more cosmopolitan metropolis that young people desire to move to before they settle down to build families. what do you guys think??

I've never been to Texas except for brief interludes at the airport, but I do get that "thick-necked" fratboy attitude in downtown San Diego, and yes it is annoying.

It actually reminds me alot of Phoenix. The Tempe area where you see cool new urban development but you have that underlying frat boy spring break type mentality.

The good news is San Diego is maturing and becoming more sophisticated, it just doesn't happen overnight. :) :)

[PadreHomer]

no - walked by it several times the last couple weeks and no work is being done, and it's just a hole

it is still fenced off with an alternate sidewalk path but it looks like work is not progressing

they also used to have a sign up advertising the Nolan, now it's gone
yeah the Nolan sign is down and they wrapped everything in plastic as well

[IconRPCV]

funny you guys mention the thing about texas. that's the kind of vibe i get from visiting dt san diego is the "thick-necked" football fratboy vibe to its patrons. needless to say i wasn't into it. you guys have an envious downtown and all, clean, modern, and bustling with activity, but to be honest, i wasn't feelin the "vibe". san diego does wonderfully with 3 million and it's come a long way from its navy-town roots. i'd give it another million and a local grassroots cultural ascendancy a-la seattle's late-80s to early 90s indie/grunge renaissance for a distinctive identity to develop. i'd love for our southern neighbor to mature into a more cosmopolitan metropolis that young people desire to move to before they settle down to build families. what do you guys think??
You need to get out of downtown if you want to experience something besides tourists and the military. Try North Park or Southpark or Hillcrest or OB, and there you will find were more of the locals go. I live downtown and I have to say the East Village has a good vibe, the Gaslamp is more for non-locals.

[kpexpress]

The lot on 13th street (between Island and J) is where Rob Quigley will soon call home. The lot is in between The Mission and The Metro Condos. Should be an awesome midrise live/work house (I think 8 floors).

[mello]

Hey guys I've been out of San Diego for 9 months now and was just wondering if activity downtown has decreased with the terrible national and local economy. Think about it, where are the jobs for younger people (35 and under) that pay more then 30k per year??? All the mortgage loan jobs have evaporated, construction jobs are dust, financial services in the tank... and of course real estate agents are screwed.

So I ask who is making any money in San Diego right now? Retail owners are hurting as well. I would like an update on activity downtown, are there less people out and about spending money, going to the expensive restaurants and clubs?

I know downtown isn't like a ghost town or anything but has there been a noticable drop in activity and hustle/bustle? I remember when I used to go to the clubs at least half the people worked in the mortgage/real estate industry. At least all the Filipino chicks who are nurses still have their jobs lol :haha:

[bmfarley]

Hey guys I've been out of San Diego for 9 months now and was just wondering if activity downtown has decreased with the terrible national and local economy. Think about it, where are the jobs for younger people (35 and under) that pay more then 30k per year??? All the mortgage loan jobs have evaporated, construction jobs are dust, financial services in the tank... and of course real estate agents are screwed.

So I ask who is making any money in San Diego right now? Retail owners are hurting as well. I would like an update on activity downtown, are there less people out and about spending money, going to the expensive restaurants and clubs?

I know downtown isn't like a ghost town or anything but has there been a noticable drop in activity and hustle/bustle? I remember when I used to go to the clubs at least half the people worked in the mortgage/real estate industry. At least all the Filipino chicks who are nurses still have their jobs lol :haha:I am downtown 5 days a week and out about elsewhere. You cannot tell anything is different. Certainly development has slowed. The only place where the economic slow down is really visible is the income and balance statements of retail businesses and design firms. The implosion is not yet visible, but personally, it sometimes feels like I am in Portland Maine during the movie War Games.

[tdavis]

Hey guys I've been out of San Diego for 9 months now and was just wondering if activity downtown has decreased with the terrible national and local economy. Think about it, where are the jobs for younger people (35 and under) that pay more then 30k per year??? All the mortgage loan jobs have evaporated, construction jobs are dust, financial services in the tank... and of course real estate agents are screwed.

So I ask who is making any money in San Diego right now? Retail owners are hurting as well. I would like an update on activity downtown, are there less people out and about spending money, going to the expensive restaurants and clubs?

I know downtown isn't like a ghost town or anything but has there been a noticable drop in activity and hustle/bustle? I remember when I used to go to the clubs at least half the people worked in the mortgage/real estate industry. At least all the Filipino chicks who are nurses still have their jobs lol :haha:

I personally haven't been affected (thank God), but I do know about 10 people that have been laid off from firms such as Qualcomm, Petco, Amylyn, and some other smaller firms. But in regards to activity around town I notice a slightly less amount of people but it is hard to tell since it is the holiday season and more people will be out that usual.

[CoastersBolts]

Wasn't the Hilton Convention Center supposed to open this week? Did it?

[HurricaneHugo]

Does anybody know how tall the first national bank building (excuse me, pacific western bank building) is with its Christmas tree spire?

Looks close to 500ft! :)

[kpexpress]

The Hilton did open this week, heard that it is nothing special inside and the rooms are just standard, but the view of the city is great (so says my friend).

as for the First National Bank building, not even close to 500. see the pic.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/Picture1.png

[bmfarley]

I know the point is to depict the height of the First National Bank building, but I see Sapphire Tower is on the list. If that one is on the list, while it's under construction, should Bayside and Vantage Point be on it too?

[staplesla]

With the announcement of Obama's infrastructure investment plan into roadways and rail does anyone know if the San Diego trolley has any expansion plans ready to go, but awaiting funding?

[CoastersBolts]

With the announcement of Obama's infrastructure investment plan into roadways and rail does anyone know if the San Diego trolley has any expansion plans ready to go, but awaiting funding?

The most obvious expansion/improvement to the trolley would be the mid-coast extension up to UCSD and the Golden Triangle. I was at a SANDAG meeting in which the CEO of MTS testified that there are still plans to move forward with the extension, although I can't remember specifically why it's been held up. Also, an MTS handout showed that there should be vehicular and station upgrades along the Blue and Orange Lines. Some of those old Siemens/Duwag U2's that have been operating since the trolley opened in the early 1980s could sure use some TLC if not complete replacement with the newer Siemens Avanto S70s that have been running on the Green Line. The expansion of the S70 fleet, however, is contingent upon upgrades to existing stations; notably raising the station floors.

[Marina_Guy]

Wasn't the Hilton Convention Center supposed to open this week? Did it?

yes, it did. And if you look at my past opinions of this project, I was not surprised by the outcome. This project deserves a formal architecture review to really call out the poor architecture, urban design elements, interior design, etc. It is nice there is more park land, but that appears to be a work in progress as well.

The Port really dropped the ball on this one. Sound familiar?

Go take a look, and walk from the northeast end of the convention center to the hotel as a start and tell me what your impression of the link between the two buildings... Oh and try to find the front door of the hotel.

[staplesla]

Here is the list released today of the projects ready to be fast-tracked under Obama's infrastructure stimulus plan.

FYI - the document is 803 pages long.

http://usmayors.org/mainstreeteconomicrecovery/documents/mser-report-200812.pdf

[bmfarley]

Here is the list released today of the projects ready to be fast-tracked under Obama's infrastructure stimulus plan.

FYI - the document is 803 pages long.

http://usmayors.org/mainstreeteconomicrecovery/documents/mser-report-200812.pdf
Cool! At 803 pages I assumed it would be pretty comprehensive. It is, sort of, but it is needing more coverage of US cities. It appears only those cities that participated in the conference or responded to a survey had their projects get on the list.

Additionally, I know it is representing cities, but it would have exhibited much more cooperation or planning if other governmental orgs were included... such as the states, counties, transit agencies, municipal planning organizations, water districts, public electricity districts, school districts, etc.

I am not begrudging it... just saying.

I particularly like to see transit represented more robustly., After all, we need to provide infrastructure for the people to move away from foreign oil... and transit and rail is a big part of that.

[keg92101]

The lot on 13th street (between Island and J) is where Rob Quigley will soon call home. The lot is in between The Mission and The Metro Condos. Should be an awesome midrise live/work house (I think 8 floors).

Any renderings?

[HurricaneHugo]

as for the First National Bank building, not even close to 500. see the pic.

well i meant with its unofficial spire

going to the diagram on this website, it looks to be around 145m with its "spire", if the drawing is drawn to scale