SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[keg92101]

An oil well.

Actually, here is the quote from the SDDT:

"Planned and under construction retail space currently totals 575,291 square feet, 75 percent of which is a multilevel power center planned for development on the former Unocal site adjacent to Petco Park. By comparison, in 2005 there was 1.13 million square feet of new space planned or under construction, 64 percent of which was located in the East Village area near Petco Park."

I guess this does sound like something along the lines of Harlem U.S.A. by SOM, at least lets hope so.

[Derek]

Indeed. LAS, JFK, and IAD are their other stations, while SEA and MIA are supposed to start sometime next year, as well. I can see most if not all of those stations going on-line from San Diego. Currently, the market to south Florida is wide-open, and SEA only has one airline.

If any of you do get a chance to fly Virgin America, though, I would take it. I sampled their first class product last month, and I was blown away. If these guys can develop the frequency on key routes to be attractive to business travelers, they will eat the competition alive.

I'd love to see a SAN-MIA direct route.

[bmfarley]

Alright, I stand corrected. I also followed-up with someone in the know and actually got to see an illustration to represent massing. No power plant.

But, I don't know poop from shine-ola about uses going in. It is on the block bounded by National, Commercial, 16th and Newton. It appeared to take up the whole block with little setbacks... which is no problem with me.

[keg92101]

Alright, I stand corrected. I also followed-up with someone in the know and actually got to see an illustration to represent massing. No power plant.

But, I don't know poop from shine-ola about uses going in. It is on the block bounded by National, Commercial, 16th and Newton. It appeared to take up the whole block with little setbacks... which is no problem with me.

That's good news. Keep the street wall in downtown and the center city area.

[SDCAL]

Rite Aid is occupying the Pep Boys building on Market and 10th.

There is a new sign on the site.

hmmmm interesting I figured that building would be torn down and something with more density would be put in. Are they going to keep the buildings surface parking?

[SDCAL]

Still waiting to hear something about this "mystery" market that I've heard rumors about going into TR Produce.

They still have for lease signs outl, does anyone know if something is going in there and if so what and when????

[sandiegodweller]

hmmmm interesting I figured that building would be torn down and something with more density would be put in. Are they going to keep the buildings surface parking?
There is a plan for a high rise on the site but obviously that is not happening anytime soon.

[sandiego_urban]

If they were do do a complex similar to Harlem USA by SOM, that could actually be kind of cool. Again, it all has to do with not letting a typical suburban, cheap architecture model make its way into the urban core.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w249/keg92101/Malls_HarlemUSA.jpg
I'd love to see something like that downtown. Perhaps Horton Plaza's anticipated overhaul will model itself after what we see above.

Rite Aid is occupying the Pep Boys building on Market and 10th.

There is a new sign on the site.
I can't believe they are putting a Rite-Aid there with a Longs Drugstore just down the street at Alta. Is this going to be a full size store or a mini one like the one in Little Italy? They must think that downtown in underserved in this department.

[Derek]

Does anybody have a timeline on the Horton Plaza overhaul?

[sandiegodweller]

I'd love to see something like that downtown. Perhaps Horton Plaza's anticipated overhaul will model itself after what we see above.


I can't believe they are putting a Rite-Aid there with a Longs Drugstore just down the street at Alta. Is this going to be a full size store or a mini one like the one in Little Italy? They must think that downtown in underserved in this department.
I don't know anting about except that a sign appeared in the last few days.

Albertson's also as a full drug store in it.

[sandiego_urban]

Just a few shots that I snapped earlier today from the downtown webcams:



Vantage Pointe looks to be at floor 18, with 22 more to go
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/vp2.jpg

Hilton looks close to topping out
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/hilty.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/hilto2.jpg

Strata site preparation
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/strata.jpg

Setai San Diego (aka Diegan)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/setai.jpg

Balboa Theater restoration is coming along nicely. What color is that, anyways?
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/1194685305600360.jpg

Sapphire Tower at floor 9, 23 more to go
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/1194685305623188.jpg

Aria
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/aria-1.jpg

Bayside at floor 5 or 6, with 30 more to go.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DT%20WebCam/bayside-1.jpg

[Derek]

Thanks SD Urban. :)

The Balboa Theatre is orange. I hope that it is just a base layer or something, and that they will paint over it. It looks very strange the way it is now.

[sandiegodweller]

I know that there are a few Vantage Pointe enthusiasts on this site but I have to think that coming out of the ground with 680+ units right now (with plans to sell them over the next 36 months) will turn out to be financial suicide.

They are going to have a $200 million, half-empty building for years. The developer is going to have to cut costs somewhere to be able to carry this thing. VP would have to capture every sale in downtown San Diego (in a declining market) to be able to sell it out in 18 months.

I drive by it every day and there seems to be very few workers on site when compared to the size of the project.

[bmfarley]

I know that there are a few Vantage Pointe enthusiasts on this site but I have to think that coming out of the ground with 680+ units right now (with plans to sell them over the next 36 months) will turn out to be financial suicide.

They are going to have a $200 million, half-empty building for years. The developer is going to have to cut costs somewhere to be able to carry this thing. VP would have to capture every sale in downtown San Diego (in a declining market) to be able to sell it out in 18 months.

I drive by it every day and there seems to be very few workers on site when compared to the size of the project.

Ouch, you're right. But, the developer is not a tiny player. They are located in other ciites and their risk will be spread to those too. If they are stronger elsewhere, like in Canada, they'll have less financial pressure to move units here. When they do, I suppose turning units into rentals is an option. Maybe condotels too?

[sandiego_urban]

Yikes, those are good points, sandiegodweller. According to the VP newsletter, it says the project is nearly 50% sold out. Even if that's true, it still leaves over 300 units unsold.

I don't know anting about except that a sign appeared in the last few days.

Albertson's also as a full drug store in it.
There's also the Long's Drug at Horton Plaza.

I'm kinda liking that 7-11's seem to be popping up all over downtown. I know it's a chain, but it's great to be able to buy a drink and snacks at anytime of the day.

[Derek]

7-11's are everywhere downtown now. It's nice. :)

[SDCAL]

Does anybody have a timeline on the Horton Plaza overhaul?

I wish I could say soon, but I think it's a long, long ways off.

Remodeling of HP is not even listed as a "proposed" item on CCDC's project list, so not even sure if any architect has even formally worked on a proposal. It would probably be years off to get started and, once it is started it would need to go in phases to keep retail alive while remodeling.

It is such an eyesore, though :( The only good thing is the money is there - - Westfield is a monster and they are totally revamping UTC right now. Perhaps they want to complete that prior to moving forward w/ horton plaza?

[sandiegodweller]

Ouch, you're right. But, the developer is not a tiny player. They are located in other ciites and their risk will be spread to those too. If they are stronger elsewhere, like in Canada, they'll have less financial pressure to move units here. When they do, I suppose turning units into rentals is an option. Maybe condotels too?
As someone who owns in downtown, I have no interest in a failed project but the writing is on the wall. The lenders will have much more of a say in the disposition of the units than the developer.

The 50% "sold" is a mirage. I am starting to see that the prices of other concrete buildings in vastly superior locations are starting to approach $300 psf. If this is the case, VP buyers won't be able to close because the appraisals won't be high enough. Also, you have to figure that a good majority of the buyers were counting on low down payment loans. Those don't exist anymore.

VP will be ugly in the next 12 months.

[bmfarley]

As someone who owns in downtown, I have no interest in a failed project but the writing is on the wall. The lenders will have much more of a say in the disposition of the units than the developer.

The 50% "sold" is a mirage. I am starting to see that the prices of other concrete buildings in vastly superior locations are starting to approach $300 psf. If this is the case, VP buyers won't be able to close because the appraisals won't be high enough. Also, you have to figure that a good majority of the buyers were counting on low down payment loans. Those don't exist anymore.

VP will be ugly in the next 12 months.
I don't think developers are doing a good job of marketing their product. This is the information age... when info on resale units are easily accessible on the MLS or on Lew Breeze's site... well, new units from developers are comparatively no where to be seen. I'd suggest they'd have much more success if they provided more valuable info on the web that lists the particulars of each unit; price, sq feet, bedrroms and bathrooms, floor, view, pictures, ect.

$300 per sq foot.... I woldn't be suprised at all if more units reach that figure. A handful of resale units already have per Lew Breeze's site; however, they are probably of the lower quality buildings. Actually, I don't know which are high or low quality. I understand Aqua Vista, Palermo, Park Blvd East (west too?) and convesions are considered lower quality.

[mello]

300 dollars per sq. foot?? What are you talking about? I thought that it costs 300 dollars per foot to build these high rise units so how could they sell for that?

I'm not seeing where any profit could be made by selling them at that price. Or were you talking about construction costs? Thanks.

[Marina_Guy]

300 dollars per sq. foot?? What are you talking about? I thought that it costs 300 dollars per foot to build these high rise units so how could they sell for that?

I'm not seeing where any profit could be made by selling them at that price. Or were you talking about construction costs? Thanks.

it is the old 'end of the world' real estate talk. We will see. Average price/sqft in Downtown is in the mid-500's right now... to go to $300 would be quite a drop. But what do I know... about as much as anyone else.

We will see how the development community deals with a much longer sales cycle. Hey it took the Meridian 10 years to sell out.

BTW, just my humble opinion, but compared to other urban areas, $500 foot is a bargain.

[AustinGuy]

300 dollars per sq. foot?? What are you talking about? I thought that it costs 300 dollars per foot to build these high rise units so how could they sell for that?

I'm not seeing where any profit could be made by selling them at that price. Or were you talking about construction costs? Thanks.

You can buy new highrise units in downtown Austin for $300/sq ft and up, but I'm guessing it costs more to build out in San Diego. Honestly, if the price in downtown San Diego gets to $300/sq ft for a decent unit, I'm buying out there.

[sandiegodweller]

300 dollars per sq. foot?? What are you talking about? I thought that it costs 300 dollars per foot to build these high rise units so how could they sell for that?

I'm not seeing where any profit could be made by selling them at that price. Or were you talking about construction costs? Thanks.
http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-076035640-877_Island_Ave_106_San_Diego_CA_92101

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-071087138-877_Island_414_San_Diego_CA_92101

[keg92101]

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-076035640-877_Island_Ave_106_San_Diego_CA_92101

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-071087138-877_Island_414_San_Diego_CA_92101

Doomsday. You found 2 units at $300 / $350 per SF and now all units in concrete buildings are approaching $300 per SF. Your have a bank REPO and a 1st floor unit in park loft. 1st floor units there are outdoor urinals. Not to mention their HOA is off the charts for what you get.

[sandiegodweller]

Doomsday. You found 2 units at $300 / $350 per SF and now all units in concrete buildings are approaching $300 per SF. Your have a bank REPO and a 1st floor unit in park loft. 1st floor units there are outdoor urinals. Not to mention their HOA is off the charts for what you get.
Here is my exact quote:

"I am starting to see that the prices of other concrete buildings in vastly superior locations are starting to approach $300 psf."

1. Is Park Loft in a superior location than Vantage Pointe? Yes
2. Are prices in Park Loft approaching $300 psf? Yes

Do you really think that VP will be worth more than this in 18 months?

[IconRPCV]

It is unrelated to SD but I invite you to view my first ever thread. A photo tour of my trip around Austrailia. http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=3162198#post3162198

Cheers.

[keg92101]

Here is my exact quote:

"I am starting to see that the prices of other concrete buildings in vastly superior locations are starting to approach $300 psf."

1. Is Park Loft in a superior location than Vantage Pointe? Yes
2. Are prices in Park Loft approaching $300 psf? Yes

Do you really think that VP will be worth more than this in 18 months?

I agree with you on your points, but, a bank REPO selling at $308 per SF doesn't mean that the property is only worth that. The bank is trying to cover the loan.

Last I checked, VP is marketting their units as "more affordable", whatever that means.

[Marina_Guy]

I agree with you on your points, but, a bank REPO selling at $308 per SF doesn't mean that the property is only worth that. The bank is trying to cover the loan.

Last I checked, VP is marketting their units as "more affordable", whatever that means.

And just to finish the thought on ParkLoft, they are in litigation with the developer for defects. It is very hard to get a bank loan in that situation... it usually requires at least 30% down.

[keg92101]

Does anyone know if and when the "Urban Market" is going to begin buildout in the TR Produce building?

[IconRPCV]

I read that this British chain, I think it is called Fresh and Easy, is looking to move into downtown. Lets hope the TR building is a site they consider; I would rather have a Trader Joe's though.

[Coastal SD]

Fresh & Easy is a Tesco concept. It is different than Fresh & Wild which is Whole Foods Market's name for their British stores and the smaller Henry's stores that they recently acquired. It'd be great to see a Whole Foods downtown.

[sandiegodweller]

It is buried along J Street with no visibility, no loading docks and no parking.

[obendega]

New Broadway Pier Design (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20071118-9999-1m18port.html)

DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO – It's being played out like a home-improvement television show aimed at tackling a seemingly impossible design task.


Photos courtesy of Bermello, Ajamil & Partners
The design has open spaces and a pavilion at the end for the public when ships aren't using the terminal.
The challenge? To accommodate cruise ships on a popular San Diego pier that must also create an attractive and welcoming environment for the public.

A much-dreaded, big-metal-box design has been scrapped. And a large, tentlike structure pitched months ago is also out.

The latest idea for a renovated Broadway Pier and new cruise-ship terminal includes a sleek, industrial building with large windows and a jagged, saw-toothed roof. The pier also would include open spaces and a pavilion at the end that would be available for public enjoyment when ships are not occupying the terminal.

The San Diego Port Commission reviewed the latest plans Tuesday and gave them high marks. Civic groups and Mayor Jerry Sanders had criticized previous designs.

“We approve of what you are doing so far,” Chairwoman Sylvia Rios said.

Commissioners expect to formally vote on a budget and design for the project next month.

But like every designer's challenge, this one probably will take a few more turns.

For starters, San Diego Unified Port District staff members and the architects hired for the project say they doubt the job can be done on time or on budget.

Initially, the cruise-ship terminal was to be ready for next fall's cruise season. But port officials say it probably will open in phases that would accommodate ships during construction. The pier is expected to be open to the public sporadically during construction, which will take from 18 to 36 months.

What's more, the $10 million to $12 million budgeted for the project that the Carnival cruise line is financing will probably fall short of the cost, said Rita Vandergaw of the Port District. The budget includes about $6 million for the 40,000-square-foot terminal building.

The pier would accommodate cruise ships during at least 60 days in an erratic schedule throughout the year.

Commissioners, once content with earlier and less architectural designs for the plan, now want to put some punch in the design.

“This is the doorway to San Diego,” Commissioner Mike Najera said. “This is the front door, and we need to make a statement.”

From the picture they provide, I actually like it a lot. Too bad it won't fit in the current budget.

[Derek]

Fuck the budget.

[SD_Phil]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071118/images/met-port.jpg

[SDCAL]

It is buried along J Street with no visibility, no loading docks and no parking.

I would go because it's in walking distance of me and I think many people are in walking distance - - ICON, Fahrenheight, M2I, Alta, Parkloft, etc

I'm not sure I would consider J street right across from Petco Park as "buried"?? It seems like a high-visibility area with high foot traffic

[Derek]

He has a good point though. It doesn't have a loading dock.

[sandiegodweller]

I would go because it's in walking distance of me and I think many people are in walking distance - - ICON, Fahrenheight, M2I, Alta, Parkloft, etc

I'm not sure I would consider J street right across from Petco Park as "buried"?? It seems like a high-visibility area with high foot traffic
It is the best example of buried that I can think of. 8th and 9th dead end into the Park at the Park. J Street has a few hundred people walk and drive by per day. This will decrease when the construction workers (still working on the retail spaces at The Legend, ICON and Diamond View Tower) finally leave in a few weeks.

The Quiznos is a ghost town except for lunch time.

High foot traffic (which it doesn't have except on game days) equates to a 7-11 which is already there. Real markets need people to actually buy a decent quantity of groceries (which require a vehicle to carry home) to make money because they operate on such small margins.

[IconRPCV]

It is the best example of buried that I can think of. 8th and 9th dead end into the Park at the Park. J Street has a few hundred people walk and drive by per day. This will decrease when the construction workers (still working on the retail spaces at The Legend, ICON and Diamond View Tower) finally leave in a few weeks.

The Quiznos is a ghost town except for lunch time.

High foot traffic (which it doesn't have except on game days) equates to a 7-11 which is already there. Real markets need people to actually buy a decent quantity of groceries (which require a vehicle to carry home) to make money because they operate on such small margins.

I live in the ICON and I can attest that there is much foot traffic. The whole community uses the Park at the Park. There are seven or eight large condo buildings right around the TR site I feel most of those people would WALK to a grocery store there. One of the reasons most people live down here is so they can park the car and walk everywhere.

[keg92101]

It is the best example of buried that I can think of. 8th and 9th dead end into the Park at the Park. J Street has a few hundred people walk and drive by per day. This will decrease when the construction workers (still working on the retail spaces at The Legend, ICON and Diamond View Tower) finally leave in a few weeks.

The Quiznos is a ghost town except for lunch time.

High foot traffic (which it doesn't have except on game days) equates to a 7-11 which is already there. Real markets need people to actually buy a decent quantity of groceries (which require a vehicle to carry home) to make money because they operate on such small margins.

Hey Debbie Downer, check the link below. A market is already pending...

http://burnhamrealestate.com/urbanretail/listings/160/TR%20Retail%20Flyer.pdf

[Derek]

I like how the map reads "future library".

[keg92101]

I like how the map reads "future library".

I wonder when some one is going to have the political will to scratch the current design and hold an international competion, with the budget as part of the RFQ/P. I've been looking at other "new library facilities" around the country, and our design SUCKS comparitively. Check out Renzo Piano's Morgan Library, or Dattner's Bronx Library Center. The dome is so Balboa Park. If this is going to be a library for the 21st century (or 22nd century at the current pace!), it should be designed as such.

[sandiegodweller]

Hey Debbie Downer, check the link below. A market is already pending...

http://burnhamrealestate.com/urbanretail/listings/160/TR%20Retail%20Flyer.pdf

Sorry for actually putting some thought into how a real retailer thinks. Aren't you in the real estate development business? Are you one of the "yes" men who pumped this area full of overpriced housing based on incredibly bad land buys?

We'll see who's name is actually on the lease if it happens. Tesco, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, Henry's, even One World Market would take space along Market (in the Mark?) where people could actually find them.

I am not saying that someone can't do an independent market but this tells me that someone is going to try an upscale liquor store, a nicer version of the old Gaslamp Liquor maybe. The problem will be getting a wholesale license to sell liquor.

Tell me one large retailer that decides to hide from their customers along a back street.

[keg92101]

Sorry for actually putting some thought into how a real retailer thinks. Aren't you in the real estate development business? Are you one of the "yes" men who pumped this area full of overpriced housing based on incredibly bad land buys?

We'll see who's name is actually on the lease if it happens. Tesco, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, Henry's, even One World Market would take space along Market (in the Mark?) where people could actually find them.

I am not saying that someone can't do an independent market but this tells me that someone is going to try an upscale liquor store, a nicer version of the old Gaslamp Liquor maybe. The problem will be getting a wholesale license to sell liquor.

Tell me one large retailer that decides to hide from their customers along a back street.

No I am not in the RE Dev Business, fortunately. And no, I was not part of the broker team that sent land prices beyond feasablity. I actually work in the Construction Mgt. Business, but live in the E.V.

As for the market, I've heard rumors that it is Wal-Mart's new prototype in response to Tesco's "Fresh and Easy", and all the market share they are losing to Trader Joes. Also, How is J street a "back street"?

[sandiegodweller]

No I am not in the RE Dev Business, fortunately. And no, I was not part of the broker team that sent land prices beyond feasibility. I actually work in the Construction Mgt. Business, but live in the E.V.

As for the market, I've heard rumors that it is Wal-Mart's new prototype in response to Tesco's "Fresh and Easy", and all the market share they are losing to Trader Joes. Also, How is J street a "back street"?
If that is true, I hope it happens. Are they starting another chain? We looked at Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market for a site in North County. I am questioning this rumor because even the new concept was 40,000+ sf. Also, it needs to have other Wal-Marts in the vicinity to be able to piggyback the distribution. The nearest WalMart to downtown in College Grove, I think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wal-Mart_Neighborhood_Market

J Street is definitely a backstreet. So is Island. The 1- mile demographics for J Street would be killed by the 20+ acre open space (PetCo Park and tailgate park). It also has Albertson's, Longs Drugs, Two 7-11's, Star Market and the new proposed Rite Aid to compete with.

The smart site would have been the Pep Boys property (soon to be Rite-Aid) with it's visibility and small parking lot.

[keg92101]

If that is true, I hope it happens. Are they starting another chain? We looked at Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market for a site in North County. I am questioning this rumor because even the new concept was 40,000+ sf. Also, it needs to have other Wal-Marts in the vicinity to be able to piggyback the distribution. The nearest WalMart to downtown in College Grove, I think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wal-Mart_Neighborhood_Market

J Street is definitely a backstreet. So is Island. The 1- mile demographics for J Street would be killed by the 20+ acre open space (PetCo Park and tailgate park). It also has Albertson's, Longs Drugs, Two 7-11's, Star Market and the new proposed Rite Aid to compete with.

The smart site would have been the Pep Boys property (soon to be Rite-Aid) with it's visibility and small parking lot.

My company built the Rock Church in Liberty Station, and I got pretty friendly with the Trader Joes Mgt over there. They told me that they were looking at the Pep Boys, OliverMcMillan's Southblock and the Lofts at 10th, and a couple of other sites. Their regional Mgr did say that there would be a TJ's in dowtown, between 12-18 months. My wife and I think that the ne Hanover apts on 10th & Market would be the true ideal spot (loading dock, Market St. Frontage). Unfortunately, that is at least a 24 month project.

As for Wal-Mart's new concept, I'm drawing a blank, but they have two names trademarked, and are using those to get into the "10,000" sf urban market niche, so that urbanites don't associate it with Walmart.

[spoonman]

I was in UTC the other day and I drove past La Jolla Commons. The first building (by far the smallest) finally has it's cladding. It's an updated version of the international style of the 50's-60's. It's very nice!:tup:

Here's the rendering. The pic on the left is a terrible likeness, but the pic on the right shows decent detail at street level.
http://www.ljcommons.com/imgs/pic2.jpg

[SD_Phil]

I'll try and take pictures of La Jolla Commons tomorrow.

Also, the Costa Verde project topped out about a month ago. They've been working on the exterior and it looks like it should be done by the end of the year.

[spoonman]

Here's a question. Has anyone been into the new Hard Rock Hotel on 5th Ave? I read that it just opened 2 weeks ago.

[rocketman_95046]

I was in UTC the other day and I drove past La Jolla Commons. The first building (by far the smallest) finally has it's cladding. It's an updated version of the international style of the 50's-60's. It's very nice!:tup:

Here's the rendering. The pic on the left is a terrible likeness, but the pic on the right shows decent detail at street level.
http://www.ljcommons.com/imgs/pic2.jpg

Yes, it has some of it's cladding, however, it is still stalled at half size due to the conflict with miramar:(

[eburress]

^^ Yeah, there must have been some snags with that spiffy new radar they were going to buy for Miramar.

[keg92101]

Here's a question. Has anyone been into the new Hard Rock Hotel on 5th Ave? I read that it just opened 2 weeks ago.

Yup... It Rocks. I haven't been to NOBU yet, but Maryjane's and Sweetwater are both top notch joints.

[sandiegodweller]

Looks like a little bit of excitement at The Diegan.

There are some doubts brewing as to the fate of the project (http://www.sdlookup.com/Forums/General/tabid/57/forumid/617/tpage/1/view/topic/postid/5630/Default.aspx#5630)

Hotel builder sues over use of its name in S.D. project

By Penni Crabtree
STAFF WRITER

November 16, 2007

New York luxury hotel developer The Setai Group is suing a California developer for allegedly falsely promoting his upscale downtown San Diego hotel-condominium project under the Setai name.

Setai alleges that Orange County developer Steven Rebeil is infringing on the Setai trade-name with its unauthorized use in news releases and Web sites promoting Setai San Diego, a 23-story, 185-room hotel on Fifth Avenue, next to the House of Blues entertainment complex.

The luxury hotel, whose rooms, suites and penthouses are also being sold for condo use at prices ranging from the high $400,000s to $3.8 million, is scheduled to open next year. The property had been marketed as The Diegan before Rebeil began using the Setai name.

Setai filed the federal suit Wednesday in Miami after apparently attempting in October to rescind a disputed agreement with Rebeil and his firm, 5th Avenue Partners. Setai said it sent a letter “on or about Oct. 18” to Rebeil seeking to void a letter-of-intent because of “material misrepresentations” and violations of terms of the agreement.
Among other things, Rebeil failed to disclose a criminal and litigious past when Setai signed the May letter to negotiate a potential joint venture to develop luxury hotels in the western United States, the lawsuit alleges.

That past includes Rebeil's 2004 tax-related felony conviction and subsequent incarceration, and the denial of a casino gaming license in 1997 after Nevada regulators deemed Rebeil to “lack good character, honesty and integrity.”

Tom Malcolm, an attorney representing 5th Avenue Partners, said his client has the branding rights to the Setai name and has spent “millions upon millions of dollars to implement Setai's branding requirements.” Rebeil controls a majority stake in 5th Avenue.

Setai was aware of Rebeil's complex legal past before signing the letter-of-intent, Malcolm said, calling the New York developer's allegations that it didn't know “pretense.”

“This is a new development that has blindsided my clients,” Malcolm said. “There is an undercurrent here of whether Setai wants to renegotiate. My client, having spent millions upon millions of dollars, has to move forward. To pull the plug at this time would cause irreparable harm.”

Setai says in the lawsuit that it only entered a letter-of-intent with Rebeil and not a final agreement. The lawsuit also alleges that Rebeil's felony conviction disqualifies him from having any ownership interest in a Setai project involving a casino or liquor license in Nevada or California.

“Mr. Rebeil's participation in any of the Setai's projects tends to dilute the character, quality and value of Setai's goodwill and reputation due to Rebeil's obvious legal and moral troubles, which were not properly disclosed,” the lawsuit alleges.

The Setai Group developed the Setai Resort and Residences, a 40-story luxury condominium hotel in Miami, as well as a 30-story luxury condo-hotel in New York City.

Attorneys for Setai did not return telephone calls or e-mailed requests for comment. Setai executives also did not respond to a request for comment.

Malcolm said the Setai San Diego hotel project will continue to move forward despite the lawsuit, with a planned opening in March.

Though the market for hotel properties in San Diego remains strong, questions have been raised about the prospects for the condo portion of the disputed project.

In June, Rebeil indicated that the status of the condo portion of the project was uncertain. At that time, he testified under oath at an Orange County Superior Court hearing that the project will likely convert to traditional hotel use because the “condo market has tanked.”

Rebeil was testifying in a child support dispute with a former girlfriend who is the mother of his 6-year-old son. Rebeil, who lives in a multimillion-dollar home overlooking the ocean in Laguna Beach, maintained that his $8,066 monthly child support is too high because he technically has no income.

Instead, Rebeil said that he lived on cash that circulates through his wife's bank account, various companies and trusts associated with Rebeil or family members.

Orange County officials maintained that Rebeil was not in compliance with a 2004 court order and owed more than $200,000 in back child support.

Last month, an Orange County judge ruled in the case that Rebeil is a “high-earner” and ordered him to pay monthly child support of $8,500.

Yesterday, Malcolm acknowledged that the overall condo market in San Diego has softened, but termed the Setai San Diego project a “success.”

“It may not be a grand slam as it once appeared to be, but it certainly will be a very successful project,” Malcolm said.

Also named in the Setai lawsuit is 5th Avenue Partners' Miami public relations firm, Tara, Ink.

A spokeswoman for the PR agency yesterday said 5th Avenue Partners informed the agency that they have signed agreements with the Setai Group, and that all news releases and other communication released has been factual.

[SDCAL]

My company built the Rock Church in Liberty Station, and I got pretty friendly with the Trader Joes Mgt over there. They told me that they were looking at the Pep Boys, OliverMcMillan's Southblock and the Lofts at 10th, and a couple of other sites. Their regional Mgr did say that there would be a TJ's in dowtown, between 12-18 months. My wife and I think that the ne Hanover apts on 10th & Market would be the true ideal spot (loading dock, Market St. Frontage). Unfortunately, that is at least a 24 month project.

As for Wal-Mart's new concept, I'm drawing a blank, but they have two names trademarked, and are using those to get into the "10,000" sf urban market niche, so that urbanites don't associate it with Walmart.

I talked to TJs management in Hillcrest, and they said the franchise has a limit to the number of stores that can exist within a certain number of miles. I don't recall the exact number, but they said most of East Village is out of the question because it is too close to the Hillcrest location. They did mention that places downtown were being looked at, but they are in the western part of dt

[SDCAL]

Looks like a little bit of excitement at The Diegan.

There are some doubts brewing as to the fate of the project (http://www.sdlookup.com/Forums/General/tabid/57/forumid/617/tpage/1/view/topic/postid/5630/Default.aspx#5630)

Hotel builder sues over use of its name in S.D. project

By Penni Crabtree
STAFF WRITER

November 16, 2007

New York luxury hotel developer The Setai Group is suing a California developer for allegedly falsely promoting his upscale downtown San Diego hotel-condominium project under the Setai name.

Setai alleges that Orange County developer Steven Rebeil is infringing on the Setai trade-name with its unauthorized use in news releases and Web sites promoting Setai San Diego, a 23-story, 185-room hotel on Fifth Avenue, next to the House of Blues entertainment complex.

The luxury hotel, whose rooms, suites and penthouses are also being sold for condo use at prices ranging from the high $400,000s to $3.8 million, is scheduled to open next year. The property had been marketed as The Diegan before Rebeil began using the Setai name.

Setai filed the federal suit Wednesday in Miami after apparently attempting in October to rescind a disputed agreement with Rebeil and his firm, 5th Avenue Partners. Setai said it sent a letter “on or about Oct. 18” to Rebeil seeking to void a letter-of-intent because of “material misrepresentations” and violations of terms of the agreement.
Among other things, Rebeil failed to disclose a criminal and litigious past when Setai signed the May letter to negotiate a potential joint venture to develop luxury hotels in the western United States, the lawsuit alleges.

That past includes Rebeil's 2004 tax-related felony conviction and subsequent incarceration, and the denial of a casino gaming license in 1997 after Nevada regulators deemed Rebeil to “lack good character, honesty and integrity.”

Tom Malcolm, an attorney representing 5th Avenue Partners, said his client has the branding rights to the Setai name and has spent “millions upon millions of dollars to implement Setai's branding requirements.” Rebeil controls a majority stake in 5th Avenue.

Setai was aware of Rebeil's complex legal past before signing the letter-of-intent, Malcolm said, calling the New York developer's allegations that it didn't know “pretense.”

“This is a new development that has blindsided my clients,” Malcolm said. “There is an undercurrent here of whether Setai wants to renegotiate. My client, having spent millions upon millions of dollars, has to move forward. To pull the plug at this time would cause irreparable harm.”

Setai says in the lawsuit that it only entered a letter-of-intent with Rebeil and not a final agreement. The lawsuit also alleges that Rebeil's felony conviction disqualifies him from having any ownership interest in a Setai project involving a casino or liquor license in Nevada or California.

“Mr. Rebeil's participation in any of the Setai's projects tends to dilute the character, quality and value of Setai's goodwill and reputation due to Rebeil's obvious legal and moral troubles, which were not properly disclosed,” the lawsuit alleges.

The Setai Group developed the Setai Resort and Residences, a 40-story luxury condominium hotel in Miami, as well as a 30-story luxury condo-hotel in New York City.

Attorneys for Setai did not return telephone calls or e-mailed requests for comment. Setai executives also did not respond to a request for comment.

Malcolm said the Setai San Diego hotel project will continue to move forward despite the lawsuit, with a planned opening in March.

Though the market for hotel properties in San Diego remains strong, questions have been raised about the prospects for the condo portion of the disputed project.

In June, Rebeil indicated that the status of the condo portion of the project was uncertain. At that time, he testified under oath at an Orange County Superior Court hearing that the project will likely convert to traditional hotel use because the “condo market has tanked.”

Rebeil was testifying in a child support dispute with a former girlfriend who is the mother of his 6-year-old son. Rebeil, who lives in a multimillion-dollar home overlooking the ocean in Laguna Beach, maintained that his $8,066 monthly child support is too high because he technically has no income.

Instead, Rebeil said that he lived on cash that circulates through his wife's bank account, various companies and trusts associated with Rebeil or family members.

Orange County officials maintained that Rebeil was not in compliance with a 2004 court order and owed more than $200,000 in back child support.

Last month, an Orange County judge ruled in the case that Rebeil is a “high-earner” and ordered him to pay monthly child support of $8,500.

Yesterday, Malcolm acknowledged that the overall condo market in San Diego has softened, but termed the Setai San Diego project a “success.”

“It may not be a grand slam as it once appeared to be, but it certainly will be a very successful project,” Malcolm said.

Also named in the Setai lawsuit is 5th Avenue Partners' Miami public relations firm, Tara, Ink.

A spokeswoman for the PR agency yesterday said 5th Avenue Partners informed the agency that they have signed agreements with the Setai Group, and that all news releases and other communication released has been factual.

I hope we still get a Setai, they look really cool - - - this Rebeil character sounds like a real dumbass, I hope his foolishness hasn't ruined us from getting a Setai downtown!!!!!! :hell:

[keg92101]

I hope we still get a Setai, they look really cool - - - this Rebeil character sounds like a real dumbass, I hope his foolishness hasn't ruined us from getting a Setai downtown!!!!!! :hell:

That development is in shambles. Hopefully some one buys this crook out and puts the Foundation Room back into the project. My neighbor bought one, just for that reason, and was really pissed when he found out it got scratched.

[bmfarley]

I talked to TJs management in Hillcrest, and they said the franchise has a limit to the number of stores that can exist within a certain number of miles. I don't recall the exact number, but they said most of East Village is out of the question because it is too close to the Hillcrest location. They did mention that places downtown were being looked at, but they are in the western part of dtTrader Joe's is a nice store. I visit the one in Hillcrest 1-3 times a month as I'm tending to reach-out for more variety these days. But, I'd rather see a Whole Foods downtown! You gotta dig their ready-made dishes!

[SDCAL]

Trader Joe's is a nice store. I visit the one in Hillcrest 1-3 times a month as I'm tending to reach-out for more variety these days. But, I'd rather see a Whole Foods downtown! You gotta dig their ready-made dishes!

Well, regardless of whether or not the TR Produce location is the right place for it, an alternative produce or gorcery market would do well in East Village, I think.

Having the Albertson's is nice, but sometimes you just want to pick up a few fresh ingrediants for dinner and having to deal with a gigantic supermarket is a pain in the ass

I also go to Trader Joes's in Hillcrest or sometimes the Henry's in North Park about once a month. I often see people in the elevator in my building with TJs or henreys bags and I ask them where they went and they usually say Hillcrest or Point Loma and they always comment they wish there was one downtown

As far as J street being a "back-street" I guess it's relative to what your comparing it to. It is obviously not as busy or Market and Boradway, but it still seems pretty busy. Basic Pizza, a bar/restaurant, who's entrance is on J Street is always packed, but it is on the corner of 10th so maybe that is part of it. Further down the restaurants like the one at hotel Solamar also seem like they are not hurting for patrons -

[Derek]

Happy Thanksgiving everybody.

[bmfarley]

As far as J street being a "back-street" I guess it's relative to what your comparing it to. It is obviously not as busy or Market and Boradway, but it still seems pretty busy. Basic Pizza, a bar/restaurant, who's entrance is on J Street is always packed, but it is on the corner of 10th so maybe that is part of it. Further down the restaurants like the one at hotel Solamar also seem like they are not hurting for patrons -

It's all relative, isn't it. But I agree, J doesn't seem like a back-alley to em. It seems just perfect. I am on it as a pedestrian 2-4 times a week heading to Quizmo's for lunch.

[bmfarley]

CCDC updated their project list and interactive map. However, I failed to see any substantially new information.

[sandiegodweller]

Courthouse tab jumps to $310 million

More funding sought as bids exceed budget
By Jeanette Steele
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

November 24, 2007

DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO – The price of a new federal courthouse for downtown San Diego has ballooned to $310 million, making it the third-most expensive U.S. courthouse on the books.
Court officials are asking for an additional $80 million from Congress, after all bids exceeded the existing $230 million construction budget this year.

Meanwhile, federal officials have streamlined the Richard Meier & Partners design to cut costs. The glass entry rotunda is smaller, the building's foundations and framing have been simplified and the exterior will lose some flourishes.

Previously, court officials lowered the height to 16 stories from the 22 in the original design, unveiled in April 2005. Fourteen courtrooms would be built instead of 18.

The cuts mean the courthouse would fill the San Diego judiciary's need for only 10 years, instead of the 30 years that the original building was designed to address.

“We're trying to make it a lean building,” said Judge Irma Gonzalez, U.S. District Court chief judge. “I mean a building where it's still very nice – it's a wonderful place to do business, for the public to come to – but one that's utilitarian and one that certainly is not wasteful.”

Federal officials blame spiraling construction costs in Southern California for the increase. Only a $315 million courthouse that opened last year in Brooklyn, N.Y., and a $399 million federal complex planned for Los Angeles would come with higher price tags.

If Congress awards the extra funding, court officials want to begin construction in the spring, with completion in mid-2011.

If Congress doesn't approve the extra funding by year's end, court officials estimate that costs will rise by $2 million to $3 million a month next year.

The $80 million is in the Senate version of an appropriations bill, but not in the House version. Rep. Susan Davis, D-San Diego, who supports the funding, said a decision probably will be made next month.

Federal officials said the courthouse – technically an expansion – is a priority because of the heavy local caseload. Filings were up 70 percent in August and 50 percent in September, compared with the same months last year.

Gonzalez said spikes happen whenever Congress allocates more money for the U.S. Border Patrol and other law enforcement agencies. Others credit interim U.S. Attorney Karen Hewitt with filing more drug and immigration cases after her predecessor, Carol Lam, was fired amid complaints that she didn't file enough.

The federal court system has reined in its court-building costs after the U.S. Government Accountability Office called it out in the 1990s for high-priced courthouses that came in over budget.

The courts imposed a moratorium on new projects between 2004 and 2006. This year, the federal judiciary put out a new design guide, which calls for smaller judges' chambers with a standardized layout, smaller libraries and less public space.

Federal officials blame the high costs of the San Diego and Los Angeles projects on earthquake standards and the hot commercial construction market in Southern California, which has pushed up the price of steel and concrete.

Despite the revisions in design, David Allen, a court district architect, said San Diego isn't getting a bargain-bin building. He said a casual observer won't notice a big change from the original design.

The original blueprint called for a 20,000-square-foot civic plaza between the new building and the Edward J. Schwartz federal courthouse to the east. That plaza hasn't been decreased, Allen said.

“We have fought very hard to maintain the form of this building, primarily to keep that plaza space in play, and it's all still there,” Allen said. “I think the average person on the street will not see the difference, except for the height.”

The 2-acre site is on Broadway between State and Union streets. For nearly 100 years, that block was home to the Hotel San Diego, a 1914 building that housed low-income, weekly renters before it closed.

Since the hotel was demolished in April 2006, the property is just a hole in the ground.

If the money doesn't flow from Capitol Hill, Gonzalez said the federal judiciary will probably ask the General Services Administration – the government's real estate arm – to find the money elsewhere.

Davis said she's hopeful of success, in part because San Diego got five new federal judgeships in 2002.

“I think it's really problematic if they don't get it, and we will have to think creatively,” Davis said. “At this point, we are not looking at a Plan B.”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeanette Steele: (619) 293-1030; jen.steele@uniontrib.com

[keg92101]

It doesn't say that the courthouse will be delayed, only that the appropriations will be voted on before congress leaves for the Holidays. I sure hope that they issue the $80 million. Construction costs almost never go down.

[HurricaneHugo]

kinda sad how we went from building it to fit the needs for the next 30 years to fitting the needs for the next 10 years.

san diego loves to plan ahead!

[IconRPCV]

kinda sad how we went from building it to fit the needs for the next 30 years to fitting the needs for the next 10 years.

san diego loves to plan ahead!

Blame D.C. for this one not SD this is funded by the feds not the local gov.

[sandiegodweller]

The budget was probably put together in 2004-05 based on the plans designed at that time. I am sure that the Construction Managers and the Architects told Congress that the building should cost $230 million based on the knowledge at that time. Congress then approved $230 million.

The MARKET is to blame for the increased costs.

[rocketman_95046]

^^ Yeah, there must have been some snags with that spiffy new radar they were going to buy for Miramar.

Looks like the snags with Miramar have been untangled... The tower is moving up again. Hopefully this means that the hotel and condo towers will start soon.:cheers:

http://www.ljcommons.com/web_cam.asp

[keg92101]

The budget was probably put together in 2004-05 based on the plans designed at that time. I am sure that the Construction Managers and the Architects told Congress that the building should cost $230 million based on the knowledge at that time. Congress then approved $230 million.

The MARKET is to blame for the increased costs.

That and the fact that pricing was based on Schematic Prints. The price for construction docs was over $400 million, and when the floors were chopped off, it dropped to $310.

[SDCAL]

I guess we can look at the glass half emty or half full.

Driving around downtown this week I realized that even though things have slowed, we still have a decent number of things going up - - Vantage Point (I did observe construction activity there yesterday, I think someone thought it might have stopped), Strata, Hotel Indigo, several projects on the marina

I have also noticed more and more lights starting to come on in new developments like Alta and the Mark (even though a majority are still not on)

Let's hope that this is as bad as the "lull" gets. It could be much much worse, for example Bangkok in the 90 s when Thailand's economy tanked left the city with numerous "ghost buildings", large condo skyscrapers simply abandoned and the shells left up to serve as havens for rodents and crime

I am optimistic San Diego won't get to that point

[HurricaneHugo]

what's up with this new project called quarry hills or something in mission valley?

read about it in the newspaper

[ShekelPop]

what's up with this new project called quarry hills or something in mission valley?

read about it in the newspaper

Quarry Falls (to be constructed in that massive Quarry pit you see at the terminus of Qualcomm Way) is actually a really interesting project, its pretty large too in terms of housing, I want to say around 4000-5000 dwelling units (give or take a couple thousand)? I had some other numbers on it that I can't remember right now. Its by Sudberry properties who is the developer whose Ikea/Costco parking lot you might stealthily use during Chargers games.

you can take a look at the site plans at www.quarryfalls.com - it contains the usual PR nonsense about LEED, public spaces, living and working in the same place, and raising children who like vegetables.

To my understanding, the project has been tied up mostly because of negotiations over traffic impacts and the improvements needed to handle the daily trips of all the residents. Resident opposition has also been a stumbling block but surprisingly from what I'm told, as of around a year ago, Donna Frye has actually been willing to work with the developer on moving the project forward.

if anyone else has any new info on it, please let us know. as much as I hate mission valley and continue to wish it floods again like it did 20 or 30 years ago, i really did want to see this thing built.

[Derek]

and raising children who like vegetables.

:ack:

That looks like a really nice project though. I found the number of homes, too, with 4,780 targeted.

[bmfarley]

This board is slower because there's less development news to discuss. Somehow I don't think that's going to change any time soon.

[Marina_Guy]

I talked to TJs management in Hillcrest, and they said the franchise has a limit to the number of stores that can exist within a certain number of miles. I don't recall the exact number, but they said most of East Village is out of the question because it is too close to the Hillcrest location. They did mention that places downtown were being looked at, but they are in the western part of dt

I did hear a 'rumor' of a 'market' signing a lease at TR produce. My contact is supposed to give me more info next week. Only thing I know is that it is not for the ENTIRE vacant space. Stay tuned...

[Marina_Guy]

I got this email earlier last month. Sorry to see Bud's go. I think others have commented on commericial rents...and here is a victim. Now I am sure that space will sit vacant for 3 years as the owners try to get someone to pay $4 a foot.

=============

It saddens us to have to tell you that we have closed Bud’s effective Saturday November 17th, 2007. Our rent has more than doubled in the last year and we decided to move on and try to find another location. In the meantime we will be doing private and corporate catering.

How did this happen? When we originally leased the space in 2004 we had a set rent that was reasonable for the area. Our lease was supposed to have been for twelve years; however our attorney who approved the lease failed to notice some fine print. As a result we did not have the twelve years we expected, merely two; thus when the property was recently sold the new landlord more than doubled the rent. We are in litigation against the attorney who set this up and it appears that we will win, but the judgment has not been determined. When it is all over and we know the settlement amount it is our plan to use the money for a new location. As many of you know this is our eighth restaurant and the first one that we have ever had to close (all the previous ones have been sold to employees). It has been very difficult operating the last two years with all the uncertainty around the lease as well as with the litigation.

Again, the good news; while we look for another space Bud is still cooking – hopefully for your next party or catered event.

You can go to our website, www.budsfoodshoppe.com to find information on our catering menus. Please give Bud a call to discuss any of your Cajun food needs (619-239-4210 or 619-540-0671).

While Bud knows what he’ll be doing next (more cooking!), Rob is job hunting with the intention of going back into a more traditional work environment as well as painting of course. Rob’s art can still be seen at www.artbyrobadams.com .

A great big “Thank You” to you, our great guests these last three years for the support you’ve given us. It’s you that made it work as long as it did…and we hope to see you in the near future.

Bud & Rob

[keg92101]

I got this email earlier last month. Sorry to see Bud's go. I think others have commented on commericial rents...and here is a victim. Now I am sure that space will sit vacant for 3 years as the owners try to get someone to pay $4 a foot.

=============

It saddens us to have to tell you that we have closed Bud’s effective Saturday November 17th, 2007. Our rent has more than doubled in the last year and we decided to move on and try to find another location. In the meantime we will be doing private and corporate catering.

How did this happen? When we originally leased the space in 2004 we had a set rent that was reasonable for the area. Our lease was supposed to have been for twelve years; however our attorney who approved the lease failed to notice some fine print. As a result we did not have the twelve years we expected, merely two; thus when the property was recently sold the new landlord more than doubled the rent. We are in litigation against the attorney who set this up and it appears that we will win, but the judgment has not been determined. When it is all over and we know the settlement amount it is our plan to use the money for a new location. As many of you know this is our eighth restaurant and the first one that we have ever had to close (all the previous ones have been sold to employees). It has been very difficult operating the last two years with all the uncertainty around the lease as well as with the litigation.

Again, the good news; while we look for another space Bud is still cooking – hopefully for your next party or catered event.

You can go to our website, www.budsfoodshoppe.com to find information on our catering menus. Please give Bud a call to discuss any of your Cajun food needs (619-239-4210 or 619-540-0671).

While Bud knows what he’ll be doing next (more cooking!), Rob is job hunting with the intention of going back into a more traditional work environment as well as painting of course. Rob’s art can still be seen at www.artbyrobadams.com .

A great big “Thank You” to you, our great guests these last three years for the support you’ve given us. It’s you that made it work as long as it did…and we hope to see you in the near future.

Bud & Rob

This is ridiculous. Landlords are going to kill the renaissance that downtown is experiencing with the extortion like rates. Brokers are willing to let the space sit vacant, since they are paid based on the lease rate signed. In the mean time, the "City" we moved into and want to experience, doesn't have the feel of a true city like SF or DC. My wife and I were talking about how the best thing for our local housing market would be to have ALL the retail surrounding the ballpark filled by opening day. People sitting on the fence about moving downtown, would see all the activity and that may just tip them in the right direction. I think it sucks that retail tenants have to pay for what the neighborhood is "going to be". Who knows when it is going to be a true city environment? It sure isn't now, so tenants shouldn't have to pay for some "future environment".

[PadreHomer]

Everyone has to pay a premium downtown. Residents and business owners. I work downtown and I WISH I could afford to live there, but I can't.

[sandiegodweller]

This is ridiculous. Landlords are going to kill the renaissance that downtown is experiencing with the extortion like rates. Brokers are willing to let the space sit vacant, since they are paid based on the lease rate signed. In the mean time, the "City" we moved into and want to experience, doesn't have the feel of a true city like SF or DC. My wife and I were talking about how the best thing for our local housing market would be to have ALL the retail surrounding the ballpark filled by opening day. People sitting on the fence about moving downtown, would see all the activity and that may just tip them in the right direction. I think it sucks that retail tenants have to pay for what the neighborhood is "going to be". Who knows when it is going to be a true city environment? It sure isn't now, so tenants shouldn't have to pay for some "future environment".

Padre Pizza (8th and Market) is empty now for the same reason. Landlord doubled the rent.

I realize that the value of the building is determined by the revenue it generates but having viable businesses leave because rent is too expensive is counterproductive.

[keg92101]

The Hotel Indigo site is painted out for demolition. I bet they start within the month...

[sandiegodweller]

The Hotel Indigo site is painted out for demolition. I bet they start within the month...

I can't tell how big the site for Hotel Indigo by the rendering. From the tax records, it appears that they only own the 3 tax parcels on the SWC of the site (16,000 sf +/-).

They don't own the halfway house with the For Sale sign on it and they don't own the flophouse hotel adjacent to the hole being dug for Strata.


It will be a shame if those two projects remain.

[keg92101]

I can't tell how big the site for Hotel Indigo by the rendering. From the tax records, it appears that they only own the 3 tax parcels on the SWC of the site (16,000 sf +/-).

They don't own the halfway house with the For Sale sign on it and they don't own the flophouse hotel adjacent to the hole being dug for Strata.


It will be a shame if those two projects remain.

No plans for the flop house. I know the halfway house's CUP expires soon, and it won't be renewed per CCDC about a year and a half ago.

[sandiegodweller]

No plans for the flop house. I know the halfway house's CUP expires soon, and it won't be renewed per CCDC about a year and a half ago.

The asking price for the halfway house was $400 psf for the dirt. That corner will be a lot less valuable as a stand alone property than it would have been to incorporate it into Strata or Hotel Indigo. Same with the flophouse hotel.

[keg92101]

The asking price for the halfway house was $400 psf for the dirt. That corner will be a lot less valuable as a stand alone property than it would have been to incorporate it into Strata or Hotel Indigo. Same with the flophouse hotel.

All these asking prices will come down. Land brokers have manipulated them beyond profitability. Anyways, went to the Hard Rock Woodstock opening last night. It was pretty cool. Cindy Crawford, Fergie, and Ashlee Simpson were all there. They've got some kinks to work out, but that place will be put a dent in Stingaree / Ivy or any other clubs in Downtown. They don't even charge cover!

[Derek]

Here's some Chargers new stadium news. (From Chargers.com)

Two artist renderings greeted people that entered the Chula Vista Public Library auditorium Wednesday night for the Chula Vista Stadium Study Town Hall meeting.

One depicted a stadium on the Chula Vista bay front. The other was a similar stadium on vacant land in the east side of town in Otay Mesa along State Route 125.

When both ideas were explained to the audience, the plans were met with applause, especially after Chargers Special Counsel Mark Fabiani and Chula Vista Counsilman John McCann, an advocate of the project, emphasized no public funding would be used for the privately built stadium.

“I’m for a new stadium and keeping the Chargers in San Diego County,” said Mike Cain, a Chula Vista resident that arrived early to sit up front. “I just wanted to know there will be no tax dollars used.”

In Chula Vista, the debate appeared to be more about where to build the stadium than should the city proceed as a partner with the Chargers to build that would be a state-of-the-art stadium. Such a facility would be home to the Chargers, San Diego State football, the Holiday Bowl and Poinsettia Bowl, possible future Super Bowls and other sporting events.

At the end of the meeting, a member of the public called for a vote by a show of hands. Approximately 45 people voted for the bay front site and 20 for the eastside. Seven people voted against the stadium. There were 20 hands raised that to vote they wanted a stadium but didn’t care which site.

McCann said that once the Chargers agreed to pay for the study of the project, at a cost of $200,000, and agreed to not negotiate with any city outside of San Diego County, the city began studying its options.

“We want this process to be transparent,” McCann said. “The bottom line is the city of Chula Vista has not spent any taxpayer money on processing these plans. The Chargers have paid for the study and it has not cost Chula Vista any money.”

Fabiani also explained that it has been the Chargers’ goal since the beginning to privately fund the project.

“We’re going to put everything about this project on the ballot,” Fabiani said. “There won’t be anything left to guesswork.”

McCann discussed plusses and minuses to both sites.

He described the aging power plan on the water front as an eyesore that could be replaced by the new stadium with a 100-acre park surrounding it. He explained the waterfront site offers more existing infrastructure with Interstate-5 and the trolley lines. Another advantage of the site is there are no residential homes to be knocked down and displace people.

The park would be used year-round with cars parking on the grass on game days. This would be in contrast to a paved over parking lot that sits empty most of the year as is the case with the Qualcomm Stadium site where the Chargers play now.

McCann and Fabiani also said the trolley lines could be expanded to the stadium site and the Coaster commuter trains from North County could be extended to Chula Vista. He also said people could enter the stadium site on a ferry from Coronado.

“Can we be the impetus that finally results in the elimination of the power plant on the bay front more quickly than it would otherwise?” Fabiani said. “If so, is that worth something to you? Can we be the the reason a park is built around the stadium instead of a parking lot?”

Laura Hunter of the Environmental Health Coalition and Jim Peugh of the Audubon Society both spoke at the meeting, objecting to building projects of any kind on the bay front site.

McCann said a benefit of building the stadium on the east side of town is the stadium would fit in with the nearby Olympic Training Center. He also said a stadium, that would also be used by San Diego State, could be an anchor to a south campus for San Diego State or another four-year school campus.

“There is no four-year university south of Highway 94,” McCann said. “I don’t know of another population area as large as ours without a four-year university for the community.”

Most of the questions raised at the town hall meeting centered on assurances there would be no public funding and the appropriate infrastructure would be included in the planning to prevent traffic congestion.

Victor Contreras was another citizen attending the meeting. He wanted to know if the stadium construction project could be connected to the Sweetwater Union High School District to provide vocational training as well as jobs for local construction companies.

“I think this can be a win for the school district and a win for the community,” Contreras said. “I would be extremely interested in seeing that kind of development. And it’s a win for the Chargers.”

Contreras’ idea was met with applause, and Fabiani, who opened the town hall meeting by saying he was there to hear ideas from the public, asked him for his card to explore his ideas.

“One of the things that’s exciting about this project is we’ll be starting from scratch,” Fabiani said. “We can do things that have never been done before. We can build a “green” stadium that is environmentally neutral. It’s been done in Europe with soccer stadiums with current technology. We want to design something for the community that makes a lot of sense.”

[bmfarley]

^^^^
Don't get me wrong, I want the Chargers to remain in the county. I am not enthralled by the idea of a stadium in Chula Vista... too far south.

But my main observation is that Fabiani is saying that the Chargers' goal is that no public funds used for the project, yet cites that the Trolley could be expanded at the site and Coaster could be extended. Mmmm.... on who's dime? The same question holds true for a ferry terminal at the bayfront stadium location.

What kind of language is going to be that supposed ballot measure?

I am wondering if Fabiani is trying to sell snake oil.

And... if no public funds is the goal... well, couldn't that be done in San Diego too?

[sandiegodweller]

I sit in meetings every week where we see residential development projects pitched. The idea of a new stadium being financially feasible in the region is a pipe dream. There is no legal product type (Residential, office, commercial) that could generate enough income to finance a new $1 billion facility except maybe a new mega casino. The interest payments alone on $1 billion @ 5% is $137,000 per DAY. That doesn't pay any of the principal.

The costs for these projects has doubled since the last outdoor stadium (Qwest Field Seattle) was built. Paul Allen owns the Seahawks. He has 15x more money than Spanos and he wouldn't spend his own money to build the stadium ($450 million).

I predict that the Chargers will be in Qualcomm for another 10 years. Not because they want to but because the economy and the economics of building a new stadium anywhere in the country will prevent them from finding a better deal.

[bmfarley]

I sit in meetings every week where we see residential development projects pitched. The idea of a new stadium being financially feasible in the region is a pipe dream. There is no legal product type (Residential, office, commercial) that could generate enough income to finance a new $1 billion facility except maybe a new mega casino. The interest payments alone on $1 billion @ 5% is $137,000 per DAY. That doesn't pay any of the principal.

The costs for these projects has doubled since the last outdoor stadium (Qwest Field Seattle) was built. Paul Allen owns the Seahawks. He has 15x more money than Spanos and he wouldn't spend his own money to build the stadium ($450 million).

I predict that the Chargers will be in Qualcomm for another 10 years. Not because they want to but because the economy and the economics of building a new stadium anywhere in the country will prevent them from finding a better deal.
Still, don't get me wrong... I want to see the Chargers remain in San Diego County... but that same phrase came to mind with the thought of no public funds to finance the project as a goal with the suggested transportation improvements... It's a 'pipedream.'

Makes me wonder if Mark Aquire was correct in his approach with the Charger's? Maybe he knew something that wasn't conveyed in the press? But I still will not vote for him on the next go-round.

[mello]

I sit in meetings every week where we see residential development projects pitched. The idea of a new stadium being financially feasible in the region is a pipe dream. There is no legal product type (Residential, office, commercial) that could generate enough income to finance a new $1 billion facility except maybe a new mega casino. The interest payments alone on $1 billion @ 5% is $137,000 per DAY. That doesn't pay any of the principal.

The costs for these projects has doubled since the last outdoor stadium (Qwest Field Seattle) was built. Paul Allen owns the Seahawks. He has 15x more money than Spanos and he wouldn't spend his own money to build the stadium ($450 million).

I predict that the Chargers will be in Qualcomm for another 10 years. Not because they want to but because the economy and the economics of building a new stadium anywhere in the country will prevent them from finding a better deal.


It was very interesting how the article we just read on the last page didn't talk about the "surrounding development" that would help "pay for" the stadium. Usually articles discuss the nearby 4 to 6000 condos to be built by Spanos or a "retail village" etc. This article only discussed the stadium itself and not the added the development the Spanos family would use to off set stadium costs... Very strange.

So they are saying just the cost of building the *stadium* is 1 billion??? Just stadium nothing else??? Holy shit. This is crazy. Looks like they should have just done the Qualcomm site years ago when the cost might have only been 450 or 500 million $ :haha:

[sandiegodweller]

It was very interesting how the article we just read on the last page didn't talk about the "surrounding development" that would help "pay for" the stadium. Usually articles discuss the nearby 4 to 6000 condos to be built by Spanos or a "retail village" etc. This article only discussed the stadium itself and not the added the development the Spanos family would use to off set stadium costs... Very strange.

So they are saying just the cost of building the *stadium* is 1 billion??? Just stadium nothing else??? Holy shit. This is crazy. Looks like they should have just done the Qualcomm site years ago when the cost might have only been 450 or 500 million $ :haha:

Since there is no actual plan proposed yet, only pretty renderings, I don't know what the $1 billion is paying for. All I know is that the new Cowboys Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Cowboys_New_Stadium) and the new NY Giants and NY Jets stadium (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=aRUTVL2Iq140&refer=home) have both exceeded that number.

[ShekelPop]

Well, if no one's got anything, here's a photo from a couple of weeks ago I was able to snap from the Bay, showing Electra, completed.

http://lh6.google.com/ahmeyers/R0FCENE0t1I/AAAAAAAAATs/y_JzKUa6cPo/DSC00500.JPG?imgmax=512

[keg92101]

Hotel Indigo site has begun to mobilize. Excavator and Dozer are on site. Strata was setting soldier beams last night for the shoring.

[eburress]

Well, if no one's got anything, here's a photo from a couple of weeks ago I was able to snap from the Bay, showing Electra, completed.

http://lh6.google.com/ahmeyers/R0FCENE0t1I/AAAAAAAAATs/y_JzKUa6cPo/DSC00500.JPG?imgmax=512

I am really disappointed in the color of Electra's glass. Green...blue...silver...anything would have been better than BROWN! This isn't 1975.

[ShekelPop]

I am really disappointed in the color of Electra's glass. Green...blue...silver...anything would have been better than BROWN! This isn't 1975.

I agree, but I will say, that its only acceptable a) because NBC will soon block it partially anyway, b) its among blue glass buildings which at least gives the view some variety.

here's another shot which shows more of that wonderful 1975 (excellent choice of year by the way) brown:
http://lh4.google.com/ahmeyers/R0FBItE0tvI/AAAAAAAAAS4/ZofGebyjhxM/DSC00484.JPG?imgmax=512

[ShekelPop]

I guess there is news today (besides Indigo geting under way, that's good news too!). From CCDC:


SEMI-FINALIST DEVELOPMENT TEAMS IDENTIFIED FOR
CIVIC CENTER COMPLEX REDEVELOPMENT

SAN DIEGO, CA — A selection committee has reviewed proposals from eight prospective development teams and narrowed the list of competitors to four, for the possible redevelopment of San Diego’s Civic Center Complex. The semi-finalist firms invited for presentations to the selection committee include:


. Gerding Edlen (Portland, OR)

· Hines (San Diego, CA)

· Lankford & Associates (San Diego, CA)

· Thomas Properties Group (Los Angeles, CA)

The development teams were evaluated based on numerous criteria including relevant experience of the firms and staff, financial capability, commitment to equal opportunity and accomplishments in sustainable design and development.

Following the semi-finalists presentations, the selection committee will choose up to three finalist teams to advance to the next round of competition.

The finalists will then participate in a series of public meetings to be held throughout the city to share their prior development experiences and listen to public feedback, questions and ideas. Final proposals from all firms are currently scheduled to be due in mid-2008. Each finalist will be expected to incorporate ideas and suggestions gained from these public meetings into their submitted proposals. Finalists will also be expected to submit conceptual plans and financial projections in their final proposals.

Selection Committee Members, comprised of professionals from diverse disciplines, are as follows:

Fred Maas, Chair CCDC Board of Directors
Barbara Warden, The Downtown San Diego Partnership
Kent Trimble, Delegate, San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce
William Sauls, esq., Centre City Advisory Committee Member
Tom Sudberry, Sudberry Properties
David Malmuth, Robert Charles Lesser & Company
Kevin Tilden, San Diego Convention Center Board
Larry Hoeksema, AIA, Moser Drew Watson & Ferguson

Currently, San Diego’s City Administration Building accommodates only 600 employees, and the City has had to lease privately owned space for more than 15 years. City offices are now located within eight downtown buildings (four leased), representing more than one half million square feet of leased space.

Collectively, more than 3,000 employees work in these properties, which comprise annual leasing costs of $13.5 million. Deferred maintenance on the City Administration Building alone is estimated to exceed well above $10 million. Because most of the leases will come due in 2013 and 2014 and rates are projected to increase significantly, this process is seen as a proactive approach to evaluate possible costs savings through redeveloping the site.

The committee is expected to announce the names of up to three finalist teams before the end of the year.

The final determination process will include a thorough financial evaluation to ensure that a project would move forward only if it could clearly demonstrate a significant reduction in operational and capital costs to the City. Similar public/private partnership projects include the new city hall in Austin, Texas, and state-of-the-art courthouse facilities in New York City.

Goals of the redevelopment of the Civic Center Complex include:

• Revitalizing the city’s civic core
• Catalyzing private sector development in the Civic Center area
• Providing more accessible public spaces
• Providing smart growth transit-oriented development
• Opening B Street, closed to pedestrian and vehicular traffic for 40 years
• Replacing aging infrastructure
• Constructing a more publicly accessible City Hall
• Increasing tax increment revenues generated to the City
• Utilizing sustainable development techniques.

For questions of further information please contact Jeff Graham at 619-533-7181 or jgraham@ccdc.com.

[ShekelPop]

Also, (sorry guys, I'm super bored at work today) - looks like Embassy 1414 is now called Lumina and is going to be what sounds like a Condo-hotel:

http://www.sandiegometro.com/urban/
"Lumina. (Formerly Embassy 1414) Constellation Property Group by Marchese + Partners, a property development company from Australia, is revising its second condominium development in San Diego. The development at West Ash and Columbia streets features 40 condos in a multi-use and hotel project."

and also I did some google work and found on another site: http://logs.hotel-online.com/News/PR2007_3rd/Aug07_LuminaTempe.html

"Veteran hotel developers will launch a new hotel-plus condos brand Lumina in downtown Tempe...Constellation Hospitality Group was formed by San Diego-based Constellation Property Group and Australian architectural firm Marchese & Partners to develop the Lumina brand...Tempe will get the first Lumina. Constellation is eyeing sites in San Diego, Honolulu, Las Vegas and Austin, Texas, Marchese said."

[bushman61988]

I agree, but I will say, that its only acceptable a) because NBC will soon block it partially anyway, b) its among blue glass buildings which at least gives the view some variety.

here's another shot which shows more of that wonderful 1975 (excellent choice of year by the way) brown:
http://lh4.google.com/ahmeyers/R0FBItE0tvI/AAAAAAAAAS4/ZofGebyjhxM/DSC00484.JPG?imgmax=512

I hate what they did to the base of this tower...I think this project as a whole came out much worse than the renderings. It's Sooooooooooooooo Nothing to be excited about. THe only thing that's cool is the height...That is it.

But the base of the tower used to be a really beautiful mix of orange and peach color, with emphasis to the little details from back in the old days, when ALL buildings, even power plants were given careful, dedication and attention...

NOw they just painted the whole damn thing one, monotonous brownish color that almost takes away from the historical significance...just disgusting.


Not to mention that Brown glass...but I do agree w/ what ShekelPop said that it's only acceptable b/c NBC will block it AND it does add some variety to the skyline...but not add that variety w/ some Emerald Green?


Our CCDC & Planning really sucks w/ approving these projects which lack any vision or artistic form...They make a tower that's the cheapest possible to make.

[Derek]

Also, (sorry guys, I'm super bored at work today) - looks like Embassy 1414 is now called Lumina and is going to be what sounds like a Condo-hotel:

http://www.sandiegometro.com/urban/
"Lumina. (Formerly Embassy 1414) Constellation Property Group by Marchese + Partners, a property development company from Australia, is revising its second condominium development in San Diego. The development at West Ash and Columbia streets features 40 condos in a multi-use and hotel project."

and also I did some google work and found on another site: http://logs.hotel-online.com/News/PR2007_3rd/Aug07_LuminaTempe.html

"Veteran hotel developers will launch a new hotel-plus condos brand Lumina in downtown Tempe...Constellation Hospitality Group was formed by San Diego-based Constellation Property Group and Australian architectural firm Marchese & Partners to develop the Lumina brand...Tempe will get the first Lumina. Constellation is eyeing sites in San Diego, Honolulu, Las Vegas and Austin, Texas, Marchese said."

As long as it keeps it's original design, I'm cool with it.

[SDCAL]

Also, (sorry guys, I'm super bored at work today) - looks like Embassy 1414 is now called Lumina and is going to be what sounds like a Condo-hotel:

http://www.sandiegometro.com/urban/
"Lumina. (Formerly Embassy 1414) Constellation Property Group by Marchese + Partners, a property development company from Australia, is revising its second condominium development in San Diego. The development at West Ash and Columbia streets features 40 condos in a multi-use and hotel project."

and also I did some google work and found on another site: http://logs.hotel-online.com/News/PR2007_3rd/Aug07_LuminaTempe.html

"Veteran hotel developers will launch a new hotel-plus condos brand Lumina in downtown Tempe...Constellation Hospitality Group was formed by San Diego-based Constellation Property Group and Australian architectural firm Marchese & Partners to develop the Lumina brand...Tempe will get the first Lumina. Constellation is eyeing sites in San Diego, Honolulu, Las Vegas and Austin, Texas, Marchese said."

This doesn't sound too promising, no start date and they are "eyeing" San Diego?

They were doing more than "eyeing" when they were "Embassy1414", with full plans, a website, etc

[eburress]

AND it does add some variety to the skyline...but not add that variety w/ some Emerald Green?

I do appreciate that it does add some variety to the skyline, but you're exactly right in that the variety could have been added in the form of a more aesthetically pleasing color. :)

[bmfarley]

^^ fwiw, it looks lik a very nice bldg to me. My downtown favorite is still the Hyatt at Harbor and Market, the one with the old-castle type roof.