SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[mongoXZ]

And Tommaso you are right, I just came from living in Crown Heights Brooklyn for 2 years and the only way to get that lively energy is to have massive density for sq. mile after sq. mile. I've noticed that downtown SD is still very quite for how "built up" it now seems. I'm guessing that many of the new condo towers and 5 to 7 floor buildings near Petco and just east of it are not at full vacancy.

Another huge problem is the empty retail spaces at the bottom of all the new residential buildings. I was walking by the park just outside of center field at Petco and my god all of the ground floor spaces in those new squat buildings are empty. Commercial real estate signs everywhere! It was like an empty Disney Land, all these nice shiny modern or reused old structures with empty bottoms and 2nd floors :( And many of these buildings have been finished for a couple of years.

C'mon now, comparing a newly developed area of downtown SD with Brooklyn areas that are more than a century old isn't fair don't you think? If anything San Diego is headed in the right direction despite the recent recession getting in the way. By 2020 I think East Village and adjacent areas will be as vibrant as the Core and Gaslamp District. The demand and interest is there in the long term.

Has anyone here been to Atlanta? I was there for a little convention last December (unfortunately) and while it was nice and clean in most areas that I saw, Atlanta's downtown SUCKED. Talk about dead! Now there's a downtown that needs a makeover. CNN studios tour anyone? :haha:

I suspect many of you guys don't realize how good we got it here compared to other downtowns in the US.

[mello]

Mongo, I wasn't comparing just stating the kind of density that it will eventually take to make downtown SD vibrant for say a 10 block by 10 block area. One other thing I wanted to bring up and maybe Tommaso could answer is the vibrant shopping destinations in downtown LA for latinos. You see those blocks in the old core of LA packed with Mexicans, Guatemalans, Salvadorians etc. shopping.

How come you don't see anything like this in San Diego. Do people just go shop in Mexico instead? How come low income Angelino's (maybe not all low income) go shopping in the downtown core? Is it just that they have more of a critical mass... Or do people here in SD just go to Mission Valley mall or other "Power Centers" with Marshals, Ross, etc. But of course the LA area has these places as well. Anyone notice what I'm talking about when you see those LA threads???

[spoonman]

Commercial rents are too high in most of dt SD for those "bargain" shops you are speaking of.

[tommaso]

Commercial rents are too high in most of dt SD for those "bargain" shops you are speaking of.

That may be true, but DTLA is the center of an 18 million person metro area. That's only second to NYC's 21 million. Chicago's is only 10 million. While SD is 3 million. DTLA will always be vibrant from that standpoint and the services at the ground floor retail street level will continue to transform and transition into more mainstream services in the central parts of DTLA. That has already happened in dozens and well over 100 cases/commercial leases for ground floor retail/restaurants in DTLA. But, DTLA can be as vibrant as it is because it is the center of activity for so many businesses and trades and that will only grow exponentially by 2020.

I can't speak for how DTSD will address its retail woes. But, I did have an enjoyable experience finding many interesting shops in SD's downtown, shops that we don't have in DTLA. Well, LA is just an exciting place to be when you know what you are doing and where to go. But, there are many trade offs when comparing DTLA to DTSD.

Number one, DTSD has some very safe and clean parts with nice retail and restaurants, only it doesn't feel like the center of a major cosmopolitan city. DTLA can feel like the center of a major cosmopolitan city, but it can be very dirty and even dangerous at times. That being said, there is so much great modern architecture in DTSD that we have yet to see in DTLA.

Despite the developments in South Park and LA Live, we still have work to do. And this decade will prove that DTLA is a true urban center with the arrival of Gensler's Farmer's Field/LA Convention Center development, the street car, multiple subway lines coming to completion, Wilshire Grand and so many more developments.

I know that I was recently critical of southern California's low quality faux Mediterranean real estate developments. And I want to clarify that I have witnessed extraordinarily beautiful nouveau Mediterranean residential developments in Beverly Hills and in the LA metro area. When the developer really spends the money on great architecture and great construction materials, we can witness a gracious beauty. I am all for that. But, I cannot turn a blind eye to the countless examples of failed faux Mediterranean architecture and we know that these developments can really affect the character of our cities and neighborhoods. I don't have a clear cut brick or glass bias. But, when the architecture is recycled cookie cutter garbage, I almost prefer it be made out of brick and not have any plants or landscaping because that only accentuates the poor architecture rather than cover it up.

[kpexpress]

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/01/27/navy_broadway_complex_rendering_2006_t593.jpg?f53c1bb70f629018cec0bd6246c82dae770b93ac

These buildings do look very stumpy, but you must take what you can get in San Diego. The city isn't built up enough to the point where the citizens can force the city to build taller buildings even throughout its downtown. S.D. is far from reaching that point. I don't care how visionary the politicians are. It would take an incredible effort to get most central downtown plots of land to consistently build 20 to 40+ story towers.

I've seen the central parts of DTSD. It can get eerily quiet on most city blocks and there's no way around that problem. It would take another 2 real estate construction booms and another 20 to 40 towers in the central part of DTSD to get a real downtown medium/high energy bustling feel.

Even downtown S.F. often lacks that energy, and S.F. laws are to blame for that problem. It is incredibly difficult to develop high rises in S.F. and so you end up with a downtown and a city that lack the energy that only the addition of 50 to 100 20+ story residential towers in the central parts could create.

You want energy and activity, then you need hundreds and thousands of people stacked on top of one another in a concentrated area and there's no other way around that. S.D. has grown leaps and bounds in that area over the past 10 years. Now, it will be interesting to see if S.D. takes more steps to becoming a serious downtown in this decade leading up to 2020.

I wish we could get BIG to do a proposal for the Navy Broadway Pier Development. That would get this community thinking....

http://www.archdaily.com/109832/a-big-new-york-debut/

[kpexpress]

Commercial rents are too high in most of dt SD for those "bargain" shops you are speaking of.

It baffles me that these developers have the cash to sit on a vacant space without cutting the prices on these leases. Can't the city do something to incentivize these developers to fill the spaces at a more reasonable rate? I know a guy who had a business on 10th ave between Island and J st. He shut his store down cause the landlord wouldn't adjust the lease, despite his newly moved in neighbor leasing the exact same space for half the price. As if filling these spaces to provide amenities for prospective condo buyers wasn't incentive enough to fill them at a more adequate price. I'm not one to advocate for raising taxes in a recession, but has anyone ever thought of a vacancy tax? Has this ever been used in other cities? I mean if they can afford to sit on an empty space, I'm sure they'd pay extra to keep it empty if that's what they want.

[mello]

Completely agree with you Kex. The empty retail space situation in all of the new buildings is such a drag on the downtown neighborhoods. The concept of having the amenities there to attract buyers and renters seems like such a no brainer....

Tommaso -- Remember DTLA is not the only player in the "Vastly improving their downtown sweepstakes". Keep in mind DTSD has one thing DTLA can never have and that is a waterfront. And in the coming years that waterfront will be greatly enhanced and have many acres of new parkland added to it.

DTSD will also be getting its very own "Farmers Field" (what a nice name for Southern California) Trust me no one on the San Diego city council current or future will want to be a part of the group who "Let the Chargers leave town to the hated giant up North" that would be political suicide.

So add in a new NFL stadium and an expanded convention center with a rooftop green park for DTSD. Then you also have the new Library under construction and the Lane Field development at the foot of Broadway along with the Navy Broadway Complex and by 2020 we will have made just as many positive steps in improving this downtown as DTLA will have done. :cheers:

[SDfan]

DTSD will also be getting its very own "Farmers Field" (what a nice name for Southern California) Trust me no one on the San Diego city council current or future will want to be a part of the group who "Let the Chargers leave town to the hated giant up North" that would be political suicide.

So add in a new NFL stadium and an expanded convention center with a rooftop green park for DTSD. Then you also have the new Library under construction and the Lane Field development at the foot of Broadway along with the Navy Broadway Complex and by 2020 we will have made just as many positive steps in improving this downtown as DTLA will have done. :cheers:

I have to disagree, I think there is enough political pushback for the downtown stadium not to happen. I mean its an easy argument to simply say "why should you, who are struggling to make ends meet earning maybe 50K a year help subsidize a stadium for a multi-billion dollar industry."

Essentially, the tax payer is being asked to build a new home for a wealthy corporate monopoly. I can see half the city voting no on any initiative. And you can expect their city council representatives to side with them on this issue.

I know I won't agree to have the city pay upwards of $500,000,000 to the NFL. Sorry, but hell no.

[mello]

I just think some how some way a stadium is going to get built somewhere in the County. And who said it would have to go to a public vote? Maybe Spanos could sell a portion of the team or find other investors. Anyhow if it doesn't happen here I don't think Farmerville will happen in LA either because they will need public money as well.

And remember SDfan if done properly (in conjunction with the convention center) a new state of the art stadium is not just for the Chargers. It would help facilitate events taking place at the CC, be home to SDSU football, 2 College Bowl Games, and if we get creative a slew of other events and possibly a MLS team. So I think it is a little shortsighted to say it is "simply a new home for the Chargers.

I don't want to hijack this thread with stadium talk. So how bout that Broadway Pier Park? Looks nice and the UT said funding is there! Woohoo.

[HurricaneHugo]

Maybe I'll check out the Broadway Pier on saturday to see the 100 years of Navy Aviation celebration. :)

[Lipani]

C Street improvements scuttled
CCDC says $100 million plan can't be implemented until after 2017
By Roger Showley
Thursday, February 10, 2011 at 1:06 p.m.

C Street, one of downtown's storied corridors but now one of its sorriest-looking stretches, won't be getting a makeover anytime soon, downtown redevelopment planners say.

A $100 million program was developed to realign the trolley tracks, rebuild the streets and sidewalks and beautify the street from City College to India Street.

But at its budget planning meeting Wednesday, the Center City Development Corp. staff said it would be 2017, if then, before the major upgrades can take place.

"Currently, without federal (transit funding) sources available, it's very hard to finance," said CCDC planner Sachin Kalbag.
Rest of UT article here (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/feb/10/c-street-improvements-scuttled/).

[Miklo Velka]

C Street improvements scuttled
CCDC says $100 million plan can't be implemented until after 2017

Well That's too bad.
I'm glad that they are going to change the embarcadero though. It's such a shame that a city with such a beautiful bay and waterfront only have parking lots as a place to hang in front of the sea in downtown. What makes all cities close to the sea attractive is that they are close and i think that investors should focus on downtown some more. That kind of "promenade" along the sea is a must and can expand the downtown's range, activities, make more attractive. Look at Miami, NY, ...The waterfront should be the place to hang out in DT and not horton plaza. There is not even a park close to the sea. The area is too much dependent on car transportation but the success of a great and lively downtown is easy access to place and transportation. I mean I really like downtown and stuff but when I go down there I go to Horton plaza walk a couple of blocks and go home. So much potential don't you think? It's still a great city tho.:cheers:

[laguna]

Well That's too bad.
I'm glad that they are going to change the embarcadero though. It's such a shame that a city with such a beautiful bay and waterfront only have parking lots as a place to hang in front of the sea in downtown. What makes all cities close to the sea attractive is that they are close and i think that investors should focus on downtown some more. That kind of "promenade" along the sea is a must and can expand the downtown's range, activities, make more attractive. Look at Miami, NY, ...The waterfront should be the place to hang out in DT and not horton plaza. There is not even a park close to the sea. The area is too much dependent on car transportation but the success of a great and lively downtown is easy access to place and transportation. I mean I really like downtown and stuff but when I go down there I go to Horton plaza walk a couple of blocks and go home. So much potential don't you think? It's still a great city tho.:cheers:

I ride my bike and walk, never using my car in the downtown. What is stopping you?

There are parks between the Mariott boat docks and Seaport Village, lots of grass and trees with views of Coronado and right on the water. Get a map and explore a bit.

We could always use more parks near the water-as long as the bums can be kept from taking them over.

[Miklo Velka]

I ride my bike and walk, never using my car in the downtown. What is stopping you?
There are parks between the Mariott boat docks and Seaport Village, lots of grass and trees with views of Coronado and right on the water. Get a map and explore a bit.
We could always use more parks near the water-as long as the bums can be kept from taking them over.

I know which places you are reffering too, and honestly I think it's not enough. I mean "Seaport Village"? come on it's not that great, it's unlively to my opininon. But it's not my point. My point is you need a real boardwalk like this :
http://www.photos-voyage.com/photos/nice-17.jpg
Where people can hang out, a real economic center, with bars and park etc, to relocate the purpose of downtown close to the sea. The gap between downtown and the sea front is too big.
No comment for the bums, I think they have the right to hang out where they want to, even if it scorches your sensitive and precious eyes...:notacrook:

[HurricaneHugo]

Anybody have good pictures of the Stennis Air Wing fly over San Diego?

[HurricaneHugo]

This interesting study ranks the LA-SD high speed rail corridor as the "top ranking outside the NE corridor."

http://www.america2050.org/pdf/HSR-in-America-MR-California-Southwest.pdf

Interesting that it scores higher than the LA-SF corridor.

[Lipani]

Borders is closing downtown. Hurray for more empty retail?

[XtremeDave]

This interesting study ranks the LA-SD high speed rail corridor as the "top ranking outside the NE corridor."

http://www.america2050.org/pdf/HSR-in-America-MR-California-Southwest.pdf

Interesting that it scores higher than the LA-SF corridor.

Judging by the fact that the Pacific Surfliner is Amtrak's busiest line outside the NE corridor it doesnt surprise me at all that LA-SD ranks that high for a HSR corridor. I've been on that train many times when its almost impossible to find a seat.

It would be great to see the existing LOSSAN corridor upgraded to provide faster service in the near future, since the California HSR wont be extended to San Diego before 2030.

[Derek]

Borders is closing downtown. Hurray for more empty retail?

Wow, well that sucks. :(

[laguna]

I know which places you are reffering too, and honestly I think it's not enough. I mean "Seaport Village"? come on it's not that great, it's unlively to my opininon. But it's not my point. My point is you need a real boardwalk like this :
http://www.photos-voyage.com/photos/nice-17.jpg
Where people can hang out, a real economic center, with bars and park etc, to relocate the purpose of downtown close to the sea. The gap between downtown and the sea front is too big.
No comment for the bums, I think they have the right to hang out where they want to, even if it scorches your sensitive and precious eyes...:notacrook:

I was responding to your 'there are no parks close to the water'. Now you are talking promenade? OK

Bums certainly give a lively charm to an area. LOL
Have a nice time panhandling.

[spoonman]

It's taken 103 years, but the long-held idea of a waterfront park is about to get rolling this week with action expected by the Board of Supervisors.

The board is scheduled to vote:

* $2.6 million to demolish the 1958 J. W. Askew Building on the north side of the County Administration Center
* $1.2 million to complete the design for a 12-acre park that will replace the building and extend to the north and south parking lots of what many believe is the most beautiful public building in the county.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jan/21/county-ready-start-44-million-waterfront-park/

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/01/24/Park_plan_1_t593.JPG?f53c1bb70f629018cec0bd6246c82dae770b93ac
http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/01/21/CAC_Waterfront_Park_Fountain_Rendering.1.2011_t593.JPG?f53c1bb70f629018cec0bd6246c82dae770b93ac

Looks like Harbor Drive is being narowed through here. Anyone have details on this? Also, where are they going to rebuid the parking garage and the Askew building?

[Crackertastik]

Looks like Harbor Drive is being narowed through here. Anyone have details on this? Also, where are they going to rebuid the parking garage and the Askew building?

Im not sure about the where the workers inside the second building on site will go, i imagine to an offsite location.

I thought the idea was to put the parking underground on the site with the park on top of it. 44 Million dollar park, with only about 4 of it going towards demolition and design. It seems that price tag would support a parking garage below.

Beats me?

[spoonman]

Anyone see this?

http://www.chhatrala.com/pdf/Columbia_Tower.pdf

Looks like this might be moving along, although there is no construction ETA on the CCDC listing.

The rendering on CCDC looks a little sharper

http://www.ccdc.com/projects/major-downtown-projects/projects-landing-page/columbia/815-columbia-tower.html

[Crackertastik]

The article actually states it clearly. Underground parking onsite.

[HurricaneHugo]

The article actually states it clearly. Underground parking onsite.

Yet people still complain about the 28 million price tag for a "park."

[HurricaneHugo]

Anyone see this?

http://www.chhatrala.com/pdf/Columbia_Tower.pdf

Looks like this might be moving along, although there is no construction ETA on the CCDC listing.

The rendering on CCDC looks a little sharper

http://www.ccdc.com/projects/major-downtown-projects/projects-landing-page/columbia/815-columbia-tower.html

The CCDC one looks quite nice.

Homer Simpson had it right when he said "No fat chicks!"

[brantw]

z-dYt9Wf05A

[HurricaneHugo]

Why did that have to be in video form lol

[kpexpress]

Tomorrow Ccdc Board Will Take Up A Cooperation Agreement Worth $2.47 Billion In Redevelopment Projects (including $150 Million Allocated To Site Work At The Mts Bus Yards [chargers Stadium]).

Monday Will Be A Huge Day At City Council - Nevp, Bayside Fire Station, Horton Plaza Park, Off-leash Dog Park, And The $2.47 Billion Cooperation Agreement.

We Need Your Voice In City Hall Monday, Don't Bring Your Dog - Unless It's A Service Dog.

[HurricaneHugo]

Tomorrow Ccdc Board Will Take Up A Cooperation Agreement Worth $2.47 Billion In Redevelopment Projects (including $150 Million Allocated To Site Work At The Mts Bus Yards [chargers Stadium]).

Monday Will Be A Huge Day At City Council - Nevp, Bayside Fire Station, Horton Plaza Park, Off-leash Dog Park, And The $2.47 Billion Cooperation Agreement.

We Need Your Voice In City Hall Monday, Don't Bring Your Dog - Unless It's A Service Dog.

Link to this piece of information?

[mongoXZ]

stumbled upon some old pics of downtown, enjoy!

1886
http://seanwolfe.net/OldSanDiego/1.jpg

1937
http://seanwolfe.net/OldSanDiego/3.jpg

1898 Future site of Lindbergh Field and MCRD
http://seanwolfe.net/OldSanDiego/5.jpg

Late 1800s??
http://seanwolfe.net/OldSanDiego/19.jpg

Year not known. Probably 1890-1910
http://seanwolfe.net/OldSanDiego/12.jpg
And more than 100 years later. . . .
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3121/3214135653_e60ab8fa39.jpg
Flickr

All old photos courtesy of seanwolfe.net

[kpexpress]

Link to this piece of information?

http://dockets.sandiego.gov/sirepub/pubmtgframe.aspx?meetid=1006&doctype=Agenda

[kpexpress]

Interesting facts related to upcoming Redevelopment Agency Meeting:

Leash Free Dog Park:

Using the 2007 U.S. Pet Ownership & Demographics sourcebook by American Veterinary Medical Association; along with SANDAG Housing Estimates for Downtown and the Downtown Community Plan….

There are currently 22,733 residential units in Downtown and an estimated 14,299 dogs.

At build-out there will be 53,200 residential units and 33,463 dogs!

In a community in which residents don’t have front yards or backyards this is a serious concern when those dogs need to use the restroom.

Especially in East Village, where we don’t have any public parks.

East Village Green:

East Village is the largest community in Downtown and currently has NO public parks.

City-wide standards for park space is: 2.8 acres/1,000 people.

Currently Downtown has 2.18 acres/1,000 people.

This means Downtown currently has a 22 acre deficit of park space.

[kpexpress]

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn60/kpexpress42/DSC05365-1.jpg

[laguna]

Interesting facts related to upcoming Redevelopment Agency Meeting:

Leash Free Dog Park:

Using the 2007 U.S. Pet Ownership & Demographics sourcebook by American Veterinary Medical Association; along with SANDAG Housing Estimates for Downtown and the Downtown Community Plan….

There are currently 22,733 residential units in Downtown and an estimated 14,299 dogs.

At build-out there will be 53,200 residential units and 33,463 dogs!

In a community in which residents don’t have front yards or backyards this is a serious concern when those dogs need to use the restroom.

Especially in East Village, where we don’t have any public parks.

East Village Green:

East Village is the largest community in Downtown and currently has NO public parks.

City-wide standards for park space is: 2.8 acres/1,000 people.

Currently Downtown has 2.18 acres/1,000 people.

This means Downtown currently has a 22 acre deficit of park space.

If they hadnt blown their wad on the useless library, maybe there would be some funds for a park.

The stench in East Village isnt dog pee-it vagrant pee. Solve that problem with a park. You build it, more will come.

[HurricaneHugo]

http://dockets.sandiego.gov/sirepub/pubmtgframe.aspx?meetid=1006&doctype=Agenda

Tried to find it in the agenda but I gave up lol

[brantw]

An agreement on funding the $28.6 million initial phase of revamping the San Diego waterfront gained the unanimous approval of port commissioners on Friday, paving way for a City Council vote on Monday.

The funding plan for the North Embarcadero Visionary Plan — which would add landscaping and a park or plaza to northern Harbor Drive — commits the port to split the costs 50-50 the Centre City Development Corp., acting on behalf of San Diego’s Redevelopment Agency.

The agency and San Diego City Council are scheduled to vote on the revised plan during a 9 a.m. meeting on Monday at City Council chambers at 202 C St. If the council approves — as is widely expected — it is anticipated that the plan will then be reviewed by the California Coastal Commission at its April 13-15 meeting in Santa Barbara.

The plan has been in the works for 13 years, but negotiations on the funding have accelerated in recent days because of Gov. Jerry Brown’s threat to cut off funding of redevelopment agencies throughout California in order to help balance the state budget.

The port says it can’t move forward without funding assistance from the Redevelopment Agency. The funding plan allows the agency to advance construction costs so that the project can begin as soon as possible. The amendment also allows the port to receive certain credits, since it is assuming maintenance responsibility for the Phase I of the project. By law, the agency cannot fund maintenance of redevelopment projects.

The port will repay the agency for its share of advanced funds, either by relying on its general fund or using money from rents from the Lane Field hotel development planned at the northeast corner of Harbor and Broadway or from bonds backed by Lane Field revenues.

SignOnSanDiego.com (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/feb/25/port-oks-north-embarcadero-funding/)

[spoonman]

Thanks for posting.

Does anyone know when Lane Field might begin construction?

[Lipani]

From the Union-Tribune (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/feb/25/bicycles-big-part-future-transportation-plans/):

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/02/26/SignOn_SD_BikeLanes.jpg

[HurricaneHugo]

Waste of money but ok

[bmfarley]

The California High Speed Rail Authority will discuss the high speed alignment from LA to San Diego on Tuesday. Proposed is that the terminal at the airport be studied as part of the EIR/EIS. No stop downtown to be studied.

As I understand, community meetings will be conducted to gather feedback on this proposal???

The reasons why are said to be that there is basically competition for the ROW and a below grade alignment may have hazardous waste or ground water impacts. An above grade alignment had other impacts.

And, apparently, the City has implied that they prefer an airport location.

I think this is wrong. Construction techniques are available that can mitigate such concerns.

[eburress]

More wasted money.

[202_Cyclist]

eburress:
More wasted money.

Right-- because the billions we spend on highway expansions is money well spent and is the perfect result of the free-market. The $300B the United States spends every single year on imported oil is more wasted money. The United States has less than five percent of the world's population but we consume nearly one-fourth of the world's oil: http://www.eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=oil_home#tab2

CA's population is now 38M and it is expected to increase to as many as 50M - 60M people by 2050. The alternative to high speed rail is spending tens of billions of dollars on highway expansion. The cost to widen I-5 in San Diego Co, alone is estimated to be $3.3B - $4.5B: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/may/28/six-lane-addition-proposed-to-ease-daily-i-5/ The cost to upgrade Hwy 99 to interstate standards is estimated to cost as much as $26B: http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051223/OPED01/512230353/1001/NEWS01

It's also a myth that drivers pay for the cost the roads. Roads are massively subsidized: http://www.cahsrblog.com/2011/02/california-roads-are-massively-subsidized/

[eburress]

eburress:


Right-- because the billions we spend on highway expansions is money well spent and is the perfect result of the free-market. The $300B the United States spends every single year on imported oil is more wasted money. The United States has less than five percent of the world's population but we consume nearly one-fourth of the world's oil: http://www.eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=oil_home#tab2

CA's population is now 38M and it is expected to increase to as many as 50M - 60M people by 2050. The alternative to high speed rail is spending tens of billions of dollars on highway expansion. The cost to widen I-5 in San Diego Co, alone is estimated to be $3.3B - $4.5B: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/may/28/six-lane-addition-proposed-to-ease-daily-i-5/ The cost to upgrade Hwy 99 to interstate standards is estimated to cost as much as $26B: http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051223/OPED01/512230353/1001/NEWS01

It's also a myth that drivers pay for the cost the roads. Roads are massively subsidized: http://www.cahsrblog.com/2011/02/california-roads-are-massively-subsidized/


High speed rail isn't an alternative to commuting up and down the 5. High speed rail is an alternative to flying from LA to San Francisco. High speed rail doesn't compete with highways...it competes with airports...and if this state is going to sink billions into something, it ought to be airports.

[202_Cyclist]

eburress:
High speed rail isn't an alternative to commuting up and down the 5. High speed rail is an alternative to flying from LA to San Francisco. High speed rail doesn't compete with highways...it competes with airports...and if this state is going to sink billions into something, it ought to be airports.

Up to six million passengers (out of 100M) are expected to switch from aviation to high speed rail in the Bay Area - LA market: http://www.thetransitcoalition.us/newspdf/sjmn20100224b.pdf There will be some induced demand but, overwhelmingly, the vast majority of the ridership will be from people currently driving. This is where the greatest travel time savings will be. There will also be a lot of intra-urban travel for people who want convenient, reliable travel compared to wasting hours on Southern California or Bay Area highways.

Also, where do you propose to build a new runway at San Diego or SFO? These airport expansions aren't without costs, either. The current modernization at LAX will cost $5B - $7B.

[eburress]

eburress:


Up to six million passengers (out of 100M) are expected to switch from aviation to high speed rail in the Bay Area - LA market: http://www.thetransitcoalition.us/newspdf/sjmn20100224b.pdf There will be some induced demand but, overwhelmingly, the vast majority of the ridership will be from people currently driving. This is where the greatest travel time savings will be. There will also be a lot of intra-urban travel for people who want convenient, reliable travel compared to wasting hours on Southern California or Bay Area highways.

Also, where do you propose to build a new runway at San Diego or SFO? These airport expansions aren't without costs, either. The current modernization at LAX will cost $5B - $7B.

How many people currently drive from LA to San Francisco? How many people currently fly from LA to San Francisco?

I didn't say airport expansion was without cost. I said "if this state is going to sink billions into something, it ought to be airports".

[bmfarley]

How many people currently drive from LA to San Francisco? How many people currently fly from LA to San Francisco?

I didn't say airport expansion was without cost. I said "if this state is going to sink billions into something, it ought to be airports".

Eburress, pardon, but there are a lot of things you are not taking into consideration. Namely, the state is expected to grow from 37 million to almost 60 million by 2050. With that, statewide demand for travel will grow proportionally, however, there is insufficient room for airport expansions or roadway expansions, and, if we did, it would cost 3-4 times te amount than what HSR would cost. And, there are other benefits... Such as more diversification of our infrastructure and a contribution toward weaning ourselves away from foreign oil.

[Zorak]

Since we seem to be on the topic of high speed rail, I need to ask something that's been bothering me...

I've looked at the proposed route on www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov and can't understand how this route would translate into "high speed'. If I read this correctly, a train leaving San Diego and bound for San Francisco would make stops at these cities:

Escondido
Murrieta
Riverside
Ontario
City of Industry
LA
Burbank
Sylmar
Palmdale
Bakersfield
Fresno
Gilroy
San Jose
Redwood City
SFO airport
and finally, San Francisco

How does a train making 15 stops compete with a direct flight from San Diego to SFO? And can high speeds be reached if it's stopping every 20-50 miles?

This is a serious question, not an anti-train rant.

[spoonman]

As in all things, San Diego gets the shit end on this. The folks in coastal Northern SD and Southern OC thought the train would hurt their property values so they objected to the project and preferred an eastern alignment via Escondido and Inland Empire.

Funny thing is that the train will actually increase property values due to improved accessibility (provided you are not on top of it).

Gas prices were hurting property values in the I-15 inland corridor area even before the recession. The expansion of the 15 has made these commutes easier helping to preserve the attractiveness of those areas. Not saying encouraging people to live farther out is good, but you get the point.

[bmfarley]

Since we seem to be on the topic of high speed rail, I need to ask something that's been bothering me...

I've looked at the proposed route on www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov and can't understand how this route would translate into "high speed'. If I read this correctly, a train leaving San Diego and bound for San Francisco would make stops at these cities:

Escondido
Murrieta
Riverside
Ontario
City of Industry
LA
Burbank
Sylmar
Palmdale
Bakersfield
Fresno
Gilroy
San Jose
Redwood City
SFO airport
and finally, San Francisco

How does a train making 15 stops compete with a direct flight from San Diego to SFO? And can high speeds be reached if it's stopping every 20-50 miles?

This is a serious question, not an anti-train rant.At least three different layers of service will be provided; express, regional, and local. Only locals would stop at every station. And, some of those stations on your list will not be constructed as they be up to local jurisdictions to support. Gilroy is an example.

[bmfarley]

As in all things, San Diego gets the shit end on this. The folks in coastal Northern SD and Southern OC thought the train would hurt their property values so they objected to the project and preferred an eastern alignment via Escondido and Inland Empire.

Funny thing is that the train will actually increase property values due to improved accessibility (provided you are not on top of it).

Gas prices were hurting property values in the I-15 inland corridor area even before the recession. The expansion of the 15 has made these commutes easier helping to preserve the attractiveness of those areas. Not saying encouraging people to live farther out is good, but you get the point.

Some people need to get out more and see the world.

[spoonman]

Some people need to get out more and see the world.

Not sure what that means, but I wish people weren't so worried about the train. When I lived in Queens, living as close to the train as possible was the goal.

[HurricaneHugo]

The California High Speed Rail Authority will discuss the high speed alignment from LA to San Diego on Tuesday. Proposed is that the terminal at the airport be studied as part of the EIR/EIS. No stop downtown to be studied.

As I understand, community meetings will be conducted to gather feedback on this proposal???

The reasons why are said to be that there is basically competition for the ROW and a below grade alignment may have hazardous waste or ground water impacts. An above grade alignment had other impacts.

And, apparently, the City has implied that they prefer an airport location.

I think this is wrong. Construction techniques are available that can mitigate such concerns.

The station should be in downtown damnit.

[HurricaneHugo]

And in other news, the City approves 4 billion in redevelopment spending.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/feb/28/city-approves-4-billion-redevelopment-spending/

The San Diego City Council approved $4.1 billion in redevelopment projects Monday — possibly the largest defensive move by a California city against proposed state elimination of redevelopment agencies.

Notable projects:

"The projects, contained in a 72-page list, include mundane neighborhood improvements such as repairs to sidewalks to more than $1 billion in affordable housing to $16 million to design three covers or lids over Interstate 5 to bridge the gap between downtown and Balboa Park. The projects could be dropped, changed or added to and could be built only when funds become available.

It does not include the proposed $800 million Chargers stadium in East Village. But it does earmark $150 million for acquiring the city block at 14th and K where the stadium might go and cleaning up toxic wastes left from its current use as the city bus yard."

[kpexpress]

The station should be in downtown damnit.

I completely agree! I had to add the word "completely" in order for the forum to allow me to post - message was too short without.

[Miklo Velka]

Not sure what that means, but I wish people weren't so worried about the train. When I lived in Queens, living as close to the train as possible was the goal.

Exactly! The train is such a good opportunity for CA. I am from France and high speed rail takes me from my city ( Tours ) to Paris in one hour instead of 2.30 to get to the suburbs, plus tolls, etc. All that for around $140 round trip. Even the cities themselves don't have very good transportation system, this is a great first step to loose the car habit. Rail transportation is a great alternative to cars and highways. The trolley line should be expanded until north county, just like it goes all the way to Santee.

[mello]

Exactly! The train is such a good opportunity for CA. I am from France and high speed rail takes me from my city ( Tours ) to Paris in one hour instead of 2.30 to get to the suburbs, plus tolls, etc. All that for around $140 round trip. Even the cities themselves don't have very good transportation system, this is a great first step to loose the car habit. Rail transportation is a great alternative to cars and highways. The trolley line should be expanded until north county, just like it goes all the way to Santee.

I agree the trolley should first be expanded through Hillcrest, North Park, and in to City heights etc. the most densely populated places in the County. Then some kind of extension in to North County should be devised.

The problem with going North is geography. So many canyons and hills, streets are not on a grid at all. It is going to be a big challenge to make light rail efficient in either coastal or inland North County.

[HurricaneHugo]

Exactly! The train is such a good opportunity for CA. I am from France and high speed rail takes me from my city ( Tours ) to Paris in one hour instead of 2.30 to get to the suburbs, plus tolls, etc. All that for around $140 round trip. Even the cities themselves don't have very good transportation system, this is a great first step to loose the car habit. Rail transportation is a great alternative to cars and highways. The trolley line should be expanded until north county, just like it goes all the way to Santee.

Ridiculous that France built the TGV system...in 1980...

We'll be lucky to have our line running by 2020...

[laguna]

Trains, both light rail and high speed are cool!

Only a few problems:

Few people want to ride them.
Very expensive and intrusive to build.
Governments are beyond broke and can't afford to build them or subsidize them after they are built.

This constant comparison to Europe and third world countries that have rail systems has been argued for years and the differences make the comparisons moot.
So quit rehashing the same crap-you are boring.

[HurricaneHugo]

I forgot that freeways and airports are completely free.

[Lipani]

We'll be lucky to have our line running by 2020...

For San Diego, more like 2030. Then we get to take the scenic route through Riverside. :rolleyes:

[bmfarley]

Trains, both light rail and high speed are cool!

Only a few problems:

Few people want to ride them.
Very expensive and intrusive to build.
Governments are beyond broke and can't afford to build them or subsidize them after they are built.

This constant comparison to Europe and third world countries that have rail systems has been argued for years and the differences make the comparisons moot.
So quit rehashing the same crap-you are boring.
I read an article saying that the ARRA or TARP was doing pretty well - expected losses and American debt will be a fraction of what was origionally budgeted.

[Miklo Velka]

Hey I'm changing topic here, but have you seen Miramar College expension ? It's going to look great. I go there to school and it's getting bigger everyday. We also have new buildings and state of the art desks with computers,etc..
Here is the description of the projects. The Student learning center is getting its walls right now and they are starting to build the student services center.

http://sdmiramar.edu/root/news_comm/enews/documents/1102/Miramar%20College%20Update%20for%20COC.pdf

I've got a bunch of picture of the construction, it looks nice but I can't figure out how to put it on this website. Anyone knows how?

[Miklo Velka]

I agree the trolley should first be expanded through Hillcrest, North Park, and in to City heights etc. the most densely populated places in the County. Then some kind of extension in to North County should be devised.

The problem with going North is geography. So many canyons and hills, streets are not on a grid at all. It is going to be a big challenge to make light rail efficient in either coastal or inland North County.
__________________

Oh yes, if they actually want to do it, I don't know how they're going to. I once took the bus from Mira Mesa to Escondido mall. The route wasn't that hilly and a trolley could roll there. Can you imagine if you live in North county and working Downtown? You'd just pay $2.50 to get there, no gas, less stress, etc.
But people love their car. I heard very few people in L.A use the subway.

[HurricaneHugo]

Hey I'm changing topic here, but have you seen Miramar College expension ? It's going to look great. I go there to school and it's getting bigger everyday. We also have new buildings and state of the art desks with computers,etc..
Here is the description of the projects. The Student learning center is getting its walls right now and they are starting to build the student services center.

http://sdmiramar.edu/root/news_comm/enews/documents/1102/Miramar%20College%20Update%20for%20COC.pdf

I've got a bunch of picture of the construction, it looks nice but I can't figure out how to put it on this website. Anyone knows how?

Start an account at photobucket, upload the pictures there, insert the urls of the pictures into the picture icon here. :tup:

[HurricaneHugo]

Talking about the trolley, this is the proposed route through UCSD.

http://blink.ucsd.edu/_images/sponsor-tab/285_lrtmap.jpg

It's going to be an aerial structure with stops at Sixth College (instead of Price Center) and East Campus (hospitals + parking lots).

Not exactly the way I would have aligned it (VA, PC East, East Campus) but nice to see the actual route map.

[Miklo Velka]

Thanks HurricaneHugo!
Here is some pictures of the extension
The new Arts & Humanities building in the background with the grass area
http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z429/Miklo37/CIMG5673.jpg

Another one, you can see the compass on the ground thats going around the four building, it looks nice with numbers on it:
http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z429/Miklo37/CIMG5671.jpg

The new Student Learning center, the building is massive with 100,000 suqare feet & 3 stories
http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z429/Miklo37/CIMG5670.jpg

The new Maths building
http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z429/Miklo37/CIMG5658.jpg

Entrance of Arts buildings
http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z429/Miklo37/CIMG5716.jpg

They are also building a 4 stories parking lot with a police station and the half of the other lots are covered with solar panels. After everything is finished, Miramar College is going to be a reference compare to other colleges.
:notacrook:

[bmfarley]

Oh yes, if they actually want to do it, I don't know how they're going to. I once took the bus from Mira Mesa to Escondido mall. The route wasn't that hilly and a trolley could roll there. Can you imagine if you live in North county and working Downtown? You'd just pay $2.50 to get there, no gas, less stress, etc.
But people love their car. I heard very few people in L.A use the subway.
Lots of people use the subway in Los Angeles. The problem is, as yet, it is not very large. However, in the next 10-11 years, it should almost double in size. The Red Line is really the Red & the Purple Line. The Purple Line is planned to be extended along Wilshire, all the way to Westwood - UCLA area. That is about 9 miles. It will link downtown Los Angeles to UCLA and the Westside.

By the way, the light rail system is now the 2nd most used light-rail system in the country. It passed San Francisco and is now 2nd only to Boston's system.

Other rail projects are in the works too.

[mello]

Lots of people use the subway in Los Angeles. The problem is, as yet, it is not very large. However, in the next 10-11 years, it should almost double in size. The Red Line is really the Red & the Purple Line. The Purple Line is planned to be extended along Wilshire, all the way to Westwood - UCLA area. That is about 9 miles. It will link downtown Los Angeles to UCLA and the Westside.

By the way, the light rail system is now the 2nd most used light-rail system in the country. It passed San Francisco and is now 2nd only to Boston's system.

Other rail projects are in the works too.

I think it is a bit easier to design transit systems in Los Angeles. Lets compare SD and LA. They have tons of large arterial boulevards that run for 10 to 20 miles through the deadpan flat LA basin. SD has a very small area that is built on a continuous grid compared to LA. Think about how much larger the footprint of dense pre WWII neighborhoods is in LA compared to our little Uptown out to SDSU and the relatively small old South East sections of SD that are dense.

We don't have many roads that run for miles and miles on a straight grid like they do. There are no canyons cutting up neighborhoods there. There is no giant peace of vacant land smack dab in the middle of the metro area like we have with MCAS Miramar and the open space area to its east. Plus they have the density. Our most dense hoods are Uptown through City Heights, LA has an area like that times 5 in area and it is even more dense.

And shouldn't LA have greater light rail ridership then the SF Bay area it is a metro area twice it's size without a giant bay in the middle of it. I'm all for light rail expansion here into Claremont/Kearny Mesa, and the old hoods already mentioned. I'm just not sure North County is dense enough to justify light rail, and comparing it to LA is not really apples to apples.

[HurricaneHugo]

"I'm just not sure North County is dense enough to justify light rail"

Isn't the Sprinter only averaging around 7,000 boardings a day?

[IconRPCV]

Oh yes, if they actually want to do it, I don't know how they're going to. I once took the bus from Mira Mesa to Escondido mall. The route wasn't that hilly and a trolley could roll there. Can you imagine if you live in North county and working Downtown? You'd just pay $2.50 to get there, no gas, less stress, etc.
But people love their car. I heard very few people in L.A use the subway.

You heard wrong, I take it every day to work, to Hollywood to go to the gym, the movies, Trader Joes. The traffic is so bad up here, and the parking so difficult or expensive, that the subway is an option that many people utilize. As it expands it will be even more popular.

[mello]

"I'm just not sure North County is dense enough to justify light rail"

Isn't the Sprinter only averaging around 7,000 boardings a day?

The main problem is that the sprinter does not go to any large employment centers. Everything is so scattered in North County. It doesn't go to the business parks in Carlsbad, and Southern Vista, or obviously to the office parks in Rancho Bernardo. Some high school and college students take it but I just don't see the ridership numbers being really high unless oil prices keep climbing.

[Lipani]

The main problem is that the sprinter does not go to any large employment centers.

Bingo. 40% of all Coaster riders use the Sorrento Valley stop to connect to their employers. Like North County there's plenty of sprawl in that area. It's not an ideal situation, but having buses connect to the stop at rush hour has helped.

[staplesla]

The proposed downtown Chargers stadium, debated endlessly by fans and critics, hasn't been formally proposed, much less financed.

But that hasn't kept two Australian architects, specialists in hotel, office and residential projects, from independently coming up with their own idea that's just going public.

"We feel we have an idea that will inspire San Diego to embrace a stadium downtown," said Paul De Bartolo, 33.

He and his business partner, Ivan Rimanic, 43, have designed a circular-shaped stadium inspired by the Chargers bolt logo and located on the same site as the team's proposal -- the city bus yard at 14th and K streets.

But their proposal also includes a roughly 7.5-acre park/amphitheater that would rise above the San Diego Trolley tracks and act as an outdoor venue for conventions and other events.

They say a retractable roof, as the Chargers have suggested to handle convention events on the field, is too expensive and the money would be better spent as needed on temporary structures at the park.

Mark Fabiani, counsel to the Chargers on the stadium project, said he was not familiar with the Aussies.

"But of course we'd be excited to take a look at any and all new ideas," he said.

The partners originally came San Diego in 2005 to work on Embassy 1414, a 28-story residential tower in Little Italy proposed by Australia-based Constellation Group.

After the economy scuttled the plans, the two partners remained in San Diego, married locals and began designing hotels, office buildings and private residences. Their firm is De Bartolo + Rimanic Design Studio or DBRDS.

Their current portfolio includes a 160-room hotel in Indian Wells and a home for Rob Watson, developer of several local hotels, as well international projects in Australia and China.

They took on the stadium on their own without any financial backing or public impetus, other than their own interest in advancing the potential for a stadium.

They work in the offices of David McCullough, a landscape architect involved in the Orchids & Onions program put on by the San Diego Architectural Foundation to praise good designs and critique bad ones.

McCullough, who is collaborating on the land plan for the project, said he encouraged De Bartolo and Rimanic to go public and share their plans with the Chargers, downtown planning groups and other interests.

"We say to the Chargers, this is your opportunity (to get a stadium), and it is our opportunity to get a public-private partnership (to get a park)," McCullough said.

De Bartolo said his plan does what the Chargers doesn't -- link downtown parks and open spaces in a network in the same way Chicago's Millennium Park links to that city's waterfront park spaces.

De Bartolo said among the shortcomings in the Chargers' plan is a stadium "squashed" onto a narrow site. Their plan would provide room for pedestrian circulation around the stadium and through the proposed park and amphitheater.

The DBRDS design resembles a metal volcano, 800 feet in diameter, with the top edge finished out as edges of Chargers bolts. It would hold about 75,000 spectators and several thousand parking spaces. Also included are levels of corporate suites. (See details at the firm's website, dbrds.com.)

Surrounding it are about 12 acres of green and pedestrian space, including the amphitheater area with a capacity of 10,000.

"Our design creates iconic architecture for San Diego," De Bartolo said.

The team's blue and gold colors also are incorporated into the design. There is even space for a small tailgate-park area.

The partners have not gone beyond design. They don't know whether their plan would cost more or less than the $950 million figure the Chargers have broached ($800 million for the stadium, $150 million for site work).

But they hope their proposal will push the debate beyond Chargers-no Chargers and onto the bigger subject of what such a megaproject could do for the public in general.

"We want the city to have the best downtown in the whole U.S.," De Bartolo said. "Sydney is a great city, but this city has real great potential."

Some downtown planners have spoken of developing a sports and entertainment district, modeled after LA Live in Los Angeles.

But De Bartolo said San Diego's weather argues instead for outdoor spaces, not more indoor venues for events.

"We want to celebrate the weather here," he said.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/mar/07/australian-architects-offer-stadium-alternative/

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/03/07/dbrds2-exterior_day_t593.JPG

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/03/07/siteplan1_1_t593.JPG

[spoonman]

That's a badass design, but it massacres the street grid.

[mongoXZ]

i approve :tup:

[HurricaneHugo]

Needs more tailgating.

[psychotron]

Wow! I am quite impressed with this design. I think it's innovative and fresh, compared to the same rehashed stadium designs/proposals we've seen. More green space is always welcome, especially this design which includes an amphitheater (something the convention center would be able to leverage too?). It also looks like it preserves the Wonderbread building by moving it a block east. The design of the stadium itself looks pretty awesome. IMO, it's instantly identifiable and rather iconic. Question though, where's the jumbotron? I'm a big fan of tailgating and I'm bummed that this proposal basically kills the big time tailgate atmosphere I'm used to, but I think it's just the price to pay for a unique downtown stadium with added green space, not to mention keeping the Bolts in SD.

[Derek]

That is SO ridiculously cool. Too bad we will never see anything like it actually happen.

[brantw]

Question though, where's the jumbotron?

If you look closely, I think it's the large thing with the bolt on it that is slanted inward towards the field.

[psychotron]

If you look closely, I think it's the large thing with the bolt on it that is slanted inward towards the field.

Ahh, I see it now. Thanks. Now the stadium looks even better!

[HurricaneHugo]

Ok I kinda can get over the lost of tailgating but the shape of the stadium has to hug the sidelines like Heinz field for better views.

The seats look like they're as far as the ones in Qualcomm

[kpexpress]

that's a badass design, but it massacres the street grid.

exactly!!!

[HurricaneHugo]

San Diego grows to 1.3 million (70k behind SA...), San Diego county to 3.1 million (beating out OC for 2nd in Cali).

San Diego growth map:

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/03/09/SignOn_PopulationChangeSD_t595.jpg?7d3016c2135abb32e11fd45cdffa1189dee3761c

[SD_Phil]

Healthy numbers there for SD county, a bit anemic for SD city but we had a huge condo and housing bust so I guess overall the numbers are good given the boom/bust cycle we just went threw.

[202_Cyclist]

SD_Phil:
Healthy numbers there for SD county, a bit anemic for SD city but we had a huge condo and housing bust so I guess overall the numbers are good given the boom/bust cycle we just went threw.


Here in DC, sections of the city (Columbia Hts, U Street) that saw some of the most new condo development actually didn't grow as fast as expected. One reason hypothesized for this is that although the new buildings are dense, the units often only have 1-2 residents per dwelling, fewer residents per unit than the buildings that were replaced.

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/8510/acs-shows-ward-6-growing-fastest-while-ward-1-shrinks/

[brantw]

San Diego grows to 1.3 million (70k behind SA...), San Diego county to 3.1 million (beating out OC for 2nd in Cali).

San Diego growth map:

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/03/09/SignOn_PopulationChangeSD_t595.jpg?7d3016c2135abb32e11fd45cdffa1189dee3761c

So downtown grew somewhere between 0.1% - 15.0%? Gee... that really narrows it down.

[spoonman]

How does Del Mar lose population? Maybe they lost only a percent and got lumped into the -1 to -15% group

[brantw]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5216/5515703207_0facb2129a_o.png

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[SDfan]

I like it, I just don't know how much its going to cost.

And so much for ballpark village...

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/BallparkVillage.jpg

[SDfan]

And while I filter through my old photobucket, i found some of these dead lovelies...

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/pacific-preliminary-nw.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Bosa20Pacific20Hwy20at20E.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/sdcc.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/citypoint.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/UTCtower.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Front2020Ash.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/view201.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/MetroLive.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/emb1.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/11thBRuff.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Cosmopolitan.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/7f138825.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/laundry.jpg

[robhut]

OMG!!! I love that stadium. If it gets built I'll be so jelaous.

[SD_Phil]

Sooo....how many parking spots attached to that stadium. It looks like that surface lot is tiny.

[betawest]

The stadium looks amazing! Maybe this time's the charm?

[SDfan]

But how will they pay for it?

[OneMetropolis]

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Too bad this will never happen. 1st its ugly as hell 2nd its unrealistic and 3rd it's a sick contorted fantasy reminiscent of the plan they had for the Qualcomm stadium area. Anyone remember that? All in all its an EPIC fail on so many levels.

[patriotizzy]

I LOVE that stadium. It's the sort of design we should be seeing in more stadiums, or projects in general. Ultra modern, sleek and sexy! I really hope they make this one :D

[ElDuderino]

Definitely not a fan of that design. :yuck: The seating seems to be more like the cookie cutter stadiums of the 60s and 70s. Its not up to modern football standards. I don't even see any place for luxury suites.

[mongoXZ]

My 2¢: It's a unique design among NFL stadiums, the exterior titanium look w/ yellow/powder blue highlights is pretty striking. Kinda reminds me of a mix of Bilbao Guggenheim and the Water Dept. tower in Barcelona.
http://www.studioghibli.net/travel/barcelona_2005/graphics/BCN_05.jpg
courtesy of studioghibli.net
http://www.kirikou.com/bilbao/guggenheim12.jpg
courtesy of kirikou.com

I definitely like the idea of integrating a lightning bolt into the light towers that way you KNOW you are in Charger territory instead parading every other team's logo as they do @ the Q. Is that a jumbotron on the lightning bolt?
Also where are the sky box seats?

I don't really know about an ampitheater on the next lot being financially feasible. We all know some mega-hotel development will go there. Im' sure there will be some more parking garages built to accomodate gameday traffic. Maybe 2 more in the East Village.

Overall I'd give it an A- given that it's an innovative and different design.:yes:

[OneMetropolis]

^^^

See those structures are stunning and bold, not the crap rendered in those pictures. This make believe stadium looks similar to a volcano. It's exactly like a volcano and a radioactive power plant got together tried their best and had a baby. Maybe that will become a fun little moniker if it's built, the Bolt-cano. Makes me blow chunks!!!!:yuck: I being real frank, in real life that thing wouldn't even have half the appeal it seems to have in those pictures. Please forgive me if I come off as ignorant and annoying to the people who just simply admire this hideous atrocity, for I am still a novice Jr. in practice architect.