SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[Leo the Dog]

Pardon my ignorance, but what's the difference between a streetcar line and a trolley line?

They need a trolley line up Park to Hillcrest/North Park with a stop at Balboa Park on the way. It would be really inept planning to just put a line to Balboa Park without extending a stop up to the Hillcrest/North Park area.

The SD "Trolley" is LRT with a dedicated ROW.

Streetcars are usually one car length, ROW in traffic, stops more frequently, basically like a fancy bus.

[Nerv]

As we celebrate the 4th....







San Diego is a hot destination this Fourth of July
POSTED 5:29 PM, JULY 3, 2015

SAN DIEGO — That “no vacancy” sign will be posted all over San Diego this holiday weekend.

The San Diego Tourism Authority said the hotel occupancy rate is 99 percent over the three-day weekend that started Friday.

San Diego Tourism uthority President Joe Terzi said San Diego’s hotel industry is enjoying a record-setting year with an occupancy rate of 78 percent.

San Diego residents benefit from those high numbers. There is a 10.5 percent Transient Occupancy Tax (TOT) that goes directly to the city’s general fund and helps pay for police and fire protection in addition to other city services.

Terzi told FOX 5 that California is spending $100 million in advertising worldwide and they see a big increase in foreign visitors to the Golden State.

The Tourism Authority said they target foreign travelers because they tend to have more vacation time than Americans and, because of the cost of the trip, they tend to spend an average of about 8 to 12 days in the U.S. when they travel here.

[mello]

^^ Do those stats cover the city only or SD County wide? Obviously Cbad is blowing up with hotels and I can't believe Encinitas is still lagging has not built a new hotel in years especially with Oceanside stepping up. Hotels are very hot here right now, any news on the projects for NTC hotels right next to airport and Sunroad's Harbor Island project those are moving slow as molasses in this red hot market.

[Bertrice]

[QUOTE=mello;7085084]^^ I can't believe Encinitas is still lagging has not built a new hotel in years

Enci likes it that way . just like del mar they want to be a sleepy beach town

[Nerv]

^^ Do those stats cover the city only or SD County wide? Obviously Cbad is blowing up with hotels and I can't believe Encinitas is still lagging has not built a new hotel in years especially with Oceanside stepping up. Hotels are very hot here right now, any news on the projects for NTC hotels right next to airport and Sunroad's Harbor Island project those are moving slow as molasses in this red hot market.


The cities average is 78.5% with the county coming in at 76.3%.


You can see a bunch more stats here:


http://www.sandiego.org/industry-research.aspx


Hotel business is doing great this year which is why I think some of the hotels that were of a greater distance from the convention center were giving comic con and the city some grief with getting on board to lock in rates and keep the con here a few more years. It's easy to get cocky when things are going well.

It's also a good sign for getting that Ritz Carlton built with a current strong market happening now.


Want to know why we are even a hotter market for visitors than usual? Start checking weather around the country these days and you'll see why....

[Nerv]

[QUOTE=mello;7085084]^^ I can't believe Encinitas is still lagging has not built a new hotel in years

Enci likes it that way . just like del mar they want to be a sleepy beach town

Yeah, I'm living in Cardiff now after spending time in Solana Beach before.

You know there has to be some middle ground between being to "sleepy" like Encinitas type towns and to much "action" like the OB or PB types.

But yeah, nimby's pretty much rule here.

[Nerv]

Another positive stat is for the other local team the Padres.

OK, so some people thought they'd be higher up right now but at least fans feel they are heading in the right direction compared to the previous ownership which had no direction.

We've moved up in attendance from 20th place last year to 12th so far this year. That's on pace to hit the 2.5 million mark if they stay steady.


If they hang around .500 with their record this year and continue to make good (smart) off season moves don't be surprised to see them easily crack the top 10 next year.

2016 would be a great time for them and the city to showcase itself with the All Star game here. A few of the current downtown projects will be completed by then too.

Nothing like free advertising for your city. :D

[mello]

Nerv: Whatever happened to that parcel at the North end of Solana Beach with the epic views that was slated to be a hotel and now has signs on it trying to get "the public" to purchase it for open space? Some info on that would be appreciated.

I'm sure you guys are familiar with Gary London, in this UT article concerning what else MV site could be used for and economic drivel about Chargers etc the writer says London thinks the site could be used to lure "the next facebook, or google" on a contiguous corporate campus site. What do you guys think of this? Any chances of SD putting together a proposal for some hot start up or established company either at the Qualcomm site or possibly, Sports Arena, or MTS Busyard? It seems to me that every metro area is trying to lure corporations and this kind of thing doesn't happen every day. Here is the article:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jul/04/san-diego-may-do-better-without-nfl-chargers/

I'm going to try to call Gary London this week to get more info on this.

[Nerv]

Nerv: Whatever happened to that parcel at the North end of Solana Beach with the epic views that was slated to be a hotel and now has signs on it trying to get "the public" to purchase it for open space? Some info on that would be appreciated.

I'm sure you guys are familiar with Gary London, in this UT article concerning what else MV site could be used for and economic drivel about Chargers etc the writer says London thinks the site could be used to lure "the next facebook, or google" on a contiguous corporate campus site. What do you guys think of this? Any chances of SD putting together a proposal for some hot start up or established company either at the Qualcomm site or possibly, Sports Arena, or MTS Busyard? It seems to me that every metro area is trying to lure corporations and this kind of thing doesn't happen every day. Here is the article:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jul/04/san-diego-may-do-better-without-nfl-chargers/

I'm going to try to call Gary London this week to get more info on this.



You're talking about the prime piece that sits on the 101 as you enter Solana Beach from Cardiff's direction.

I really don't know. There has been talk of everything from a park to hotel or restaurant,etc.. at one time or another. It's a really nice piece of land so hopefully nothing stupid is picked.

[Nerv]

FYI, one of the stupid things that happened many years ago with some of our cities here on the coast was they didn't focus and build much in the way of parks. The reasoning I'm told was because they had a beach instead.

Encinitas was one of them and has been trying to catch up which is why recently you see the new 43 acre park in Cardiff finally opening after 10+ years. These get debated for years like anything else.

So if Solana beach wanted to make that lot a nice park I wouldn't mind either.

Like most people on this thread I'm hoping that downtown keeps growing with new buildings and higher towers but parks are important too and since they don't make money they often are forgotten in cities which is sad because when they are done right they greatly add to a cities quality of life.

Hopefully as downtown San Diego grows they don't forget this lesson we've learned the hard way on the coast.

[Bertrice]

east village green concepts

http://eastvillagegreen.com/get-involved/

http://eastvillagegreen.com/wp-content/uploads/Concept-11.jpg

http://eastvillagegreen.com/wp-content/uploads/Concept-23.jpg

http://eastvillagegreen.com/wp-content/uploads/Concept-32.jpg

[Northparkwizard]

Sorta surprised that at least one of those concepts doesn't propose a pedestrian/bicycle bridge over 14th street connecting the two portions of the park.

[Kenchiku desu]

All of the East Village Green concepts are good. The trick will be to keep the selected option uncluttered without extra amenities thrown in to please particular constituencies. I am a bike advocate myself, but with all due respect, a bike bridge would mean long ramps up to it, which would be very intrusive.

[Streamliner]

Nerv: Whatever happened to that parcel at the North end of Solana Beach with the epic views that was slated to be a hotel and now has signs on it trying to get "the public" to purchase it for open space? Some info on that would be appreciated.


It will now be an open space park and called Harbaugh Seaside Trails:

Gateway Park renamed Harbaugh trails
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jan/13/solana-beach-gateway-harbaugh/

SOLANA BEACH — A Solana Beach bluff-top property that had long been sought by developers will now be a park named Harbaugh Seaside Trails, in honor of a family who donated $1.1 million to help preserve the land, officials announced Tuesday.

Known as the Gateway property, the 3.44-acre parcel sits along the east side of Coast Highway 101 just south of the San Elijo Lagoon. It provides vast, picturesque views of the lagoon and the ocean.

For decades, developers and residents fought bitterly over the future of the property, as several hotel and condominium projects were proposed and ultimately rejected. The land eventually fell into foreclosure.

Eager to see the property preserved, the nonprofit San Elijo Conservancy bought it in 2011 for $3.75 million, using money borrowed from various sources. The group had been working ever since to pay off that debt.

On Tuesday, the Conservancy held a news conference to announce the sizable donation from The George & Betty Harbaugh Charitable Foundation and pushed them toward the end of that goal.

“Right now, this site is secure, it will never be developed,” said Doug Gibson, executive director and principal scientist with the conservancy.

[Leo the Dog]

Does anyone know why the bike sharing program doesn't include the beach areas? Are they worried about the salt air?

Seems like a no brainer.

[mello]

Just got off the phone with Gary London here are the bullet points. He says he has spend countless hours discussing this with city people and a couple of County people Scott Sherman one of the CSAG members etc. He wants to bring Facebook, Google type regional offices here. Santa Monica and Playa Vista have blown up why not Mission Valley (Qualcomm site). He envisions MV site as becoming the next Century City with 4 million sq. feet of office space SDSU research, tons of housing, a park etc.

He says why not give land for free or a huge discount to a tech company or a disgruntled firm that wants to leave Connecticut or just expand operations. At MTS Busyard site he says total BS that it will take 7 years to move plenty of dead space along Pac Hwy North of downtown to put it. He says city is sitting on a goldmine 4 city blocks that could fit 3.2 million sq feet of office space. London has done extensive studies on all of this.

Regarding Chargers, he isn't saying these plans are only doable if they leave. If they want to be downtown fine just realize it would take longer then you have the entire Qualcomm property freed up to do something really special. What do you guys think? Is it viable to package MV land or MTS busyard for a major corporate expansion?

[embora]

Just got off the phone with Gary London here are the bullet points. He says he has spend countless hours discussing this with city people and a couple of County people Scott Sherman one of the CSAG members etc. He wants to bring Facebook, Google type regional offices here. Santa Monica and Playa Vista have blown up why not Mission Valley (Qualcomm site). He envisions MV site as becoming the next Century City with 4 million sq. feet of office space SDSU research, tons of housing, a park etc.

He says why not give land for free or a huge discount to a tech company or a disgruntled firm that wants to leave Connecticut or just expand operations. At MTS Busyard site he says total BS that it will take 7 years to move plenty of dead space along Pac Hwy North of downtown to put it. He says city is sitting on a goldmine 4 city blocks that could fit 3.2 million sq feet of office space. London has done extensive studies on all of this.

Regarding Chargers, he isn't saying these plans are only doable if they leave. If they want to be downtown fine just realize it would take longer then you have the entire Qualcomm property freed up to do something really special. What do you guys think? Is it viable to package MV land or MTS busyard for a major corporate expansion?

I think its viable, and I like the idea using both spots to attract valuable entities like "the-next-facebook". I think it would be a better economic choice than building a stadium for the Chargers.

Fwiw: I also like the idea of allowing SDSU to expand into the current Qualcomm site, and building a right-sized stadium for SDSU football and a San Diego MLS team.

[dales5050]

Just got off the phone with Gary London here are the bullet points. He says he has spend countless hours discussing this with city people and a couple of County people Scott Sherman one of the CSAG members etc. He wants to bring Facebook, Google type regional offices here. Santa Monica and Playa Vista have blown up why not Mission Valley (Qualcomm site). He envisions MV site as becoming the next Century City with 4 million sq. feet of office space SDSU research, tons of housing, a park etc.

He says why not give land for free or a huge discount to a tech company or a disgruntled firm that wants to leave Connecticut or just expand operations. At MTS Busyard site he says total BS that it will take 7 years to move plenty of dead space along Pac Hwy North of downtown to put it. He says city is sitting on a goldmine 4 city blocks that could fit 3.2 million sq feet of office space. London has done extensive studies on all of this.

I love the idea but could the airport hold San Diego back on this? SFO is serviced OK (don't see many Facebook execs flying Southwest) but going to NY, Chicago or Intl. is a bit of a challenge.

[spoonman]

I love the idea but could the airport hold San Diego back on this? SFO is serviced OK (don't see many Facebook execs flying Southwest) but going to NY, Chicago or Intl. is a bit of a challenge.

Get your facts straight, man. Words matter.

There are 10 direct flights daily to New York and 14 to Chicago, not counting connections. How is that "a bit of a challenge"?

[Crackertastik]

Get your facts straight, man. Words matter.

There are 10 direct flights daily to New York and 14 to Chicago, not counting connections. How is that "a bit of a challenge"?

I think in the US, San Diego has more than sufficient airlift, and with improvements to Lindbergh it will keep getting better. This doesn't even account for the Tijuana-US airport being improved.

Internationally, its a minor challenge, but a 30 min hop to LA, to then go anywhere in the world isnt that awful, compared to say, 3 hours of extra flight time from Chicago.

Speaking of attracting business, I always thought San Diego could have gone the direction Miami has. Really target Latin American corporations' US-Based offices. Latin banks, etc. It is as convenient as Miami IMO. And then target Asian business for the same purpose, being as convenient as LA. SD isn't utilizing it's corporate draw as much as it could.

[dales5050]

Get your facts straight, man. Words matter.

There are 10 direct flights daily to New York and 14 to Chicago, not counting connections. How is that "a bit of a challenge"?

Serviced OK is 7 direct flights to NYC (not 10 according to SAN.org) and 11 to Chicago. Some of these flights are on Southwest and Spirit. Not really the airline of choice for C-Level.

Comparing this to SFO, it's not even close. Looking at the departures from SFO to NYC area and only counting unique departure times to account for sharing, there are 49 direct flights to NYC alone


Unless you're seriously trying to compare the flight options at SFO to SAN.

[spoonman]

Serviced OK is 7 direct flights to NYC (not 10 according to SAN.org) and 11 to Chicago. Some of these flights are on Southwest and Spirit. Not really the airline of choice for C-Level.

Comparing this to SFO, it's not even close. Looking at the departures from SFO to NYC area and only counting unique departure times to account for sharing, there are 49 direct flights to NYC alone


Unless you're seriously trying to compare the flight options at SFO to SAN.

YESTERDAY there were 14 to Chicago and 10 to New York. I am not comparing SFO to SAN as there is no point. SFO is a west coast hub and much of its traffic is pass through, as opposed to O&D. For local purposes, 10+ daily flights (not counting dozens of connecting flights) is adequate at the moment. If it isn't, more flights will be added, but the airport doesn't need to become a hub overnight and triple the number of flights to get the 'next Facebook'. There are a number of different airlines offering service to NYC . Service at SAN is excellent save for a few more international destinations.

[dales5050]

I am not comparing SFO to SAN as there is no point. SFO is a west coast hub and much of its traffic is pass through, as opposed to O&D.

My comment was based on the idea of having companies (serviced by SFO) setup operations in San Diego. The original comment was something like they are doing it near LAX so why not SAN....

For local purposes, 10+ daily flights (not counting dozens of connecting flights) is adequate at the moment. If it isn't, more flights will be added, but the airport doesn't need to become a hub overnight and triple the number of flights to get the 'next Facebook'. There are a number of different airlines offering service to NYC . Service at SAN is excellent save for a few more international destinations.

Adequate for who? I think it's pretty silly to suggest your personal opinion is equal to the determination made by a company in another city.

As you said, comparing the number of flights is not reasonable. Beyond this, what specific airlines actually service destinations matter greatly. For example, the difference in experience between Terminal 1 and Terminal 2 is just as vast.

If San Diego were to ever make a pitch, I hope they would not be so bold to point out the items that are 'adequate' as you have.

So I stand by my point. I would love for some of these companies to relocate to the area but in evaluating that they are going to look at multiple factors, including SAN.

[spoonman]

^ The level of service has been determined "adequate" by market conditions, not me. Sorry bud.

[Bertrice]

New park at Pinnacle tower

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10984975_793481710768776_5894179534514810606_n.jpg?oh=371989dd033486972e5a9926a4db3a98&oe=561CEF0A

[spoonman]

^ Oooh la la. I hear there is also subterranean parking.

[dales5050]

^ The level of service has been determined "adequate" by market conditions, not me. Sorry bud.

And a market that does not include "Facebook" type back offices.

Thanks for playing.

[SDCAL]

I think in the US, San Diego has more than sufficient airlift, and with improvements to Lindbergh it will keep getting better. This doesn't even account for the Tijuana-US airport being improved.

Internationally, its a minor challenge, but a 30 min hop to LA, to then go anywhere in the world isnt that awful, compared to say, 3 hours of extra flight time from Chicago.

Speaking of attracting business, I always thought San Diego could have gone the direction Miami has. Really target Latin American corporations' US-Based offices. Latin banks, etc. It is as convenient as Miami IMO. And then target Asian business for the same purpose, being as convenient as LA. SD isn't utilizing it's corporate draw as much as it could.

I have to disagree with you. As someone who has business travelled internationally from SD and talked to many who do so regularly, the extra little "hop" from a bigger hub to SD does make a difference. One problem is that you have to get your bags, go through customs, then re-check them when you transfer off of an incoming international flight and onto a domestic flight. This is a pretty big headache especially when you have to either rush to catch a flight or spend hours waiting in the chaos of LAX or O'hare. And frequent business travels have to do this routine many, many times a year. It's not fun when you've just been on a long flight from Mumbai or Frankfurt or Beijing.

And the improvements at SAN are all fine, but they are all non-runway improvements. They are making it easier to park and easier to wait with nicer restaurants, but no new runway space hence no expanded international routes.

As far a Miami and SD in relation to Latin America - look at a map. SD is much further geographically from Latin America than Miami is. South and Central America skew east and are much closer to Miami than to SD. I do agree with you about Asia. SD is in a prime Pacific location and we could be doing a lot more to try and attract some of that from la and sf.

[SDCAL]

^ The level of service has been determined "adequate" by market conditions, not me. Sorry bud.

They are adequate for current market conditions, but current market conditions have SD as one of the least amount of international business of major U.S. cities. I think the point is our air infrastructure needs to improve to attract more to our area. I guess the argument can be made do we get the new business and then expand the infrastructure, or expand the infrastructure first to lure the business here. But comparatively speaking, SD is not a prime place to do international business, and our airport is a crippling influence.

[Derek]

One problem is that you have to get your bags, go through customs, then re-check them when you transfer off of an incoming international flight and onto a domestic flight.




As someone who has never flown internationally, this sounds extremely frustrating and inefficient! So you're saying if somebody took a flight from Vancouver to LA, and then LA to SD, they'd have to go get their checked bags and then recheck them????

[SDfan]

The "we need a new airport" line is probably only second to "we need to raise the height limit downtown."

SAN isn't great, and it reflects our city. It's adequate, quaint, and meh. If San Diego had serious aspirations in international business and trade, we would have moved that needle 50 years ago. It's too late now. We can't build anything big like that in California anymore. There are too many interests (NIMBYS), too many regulations, and not enough political capital to move forward with anything other than SAN. Our best hope is for greater utilization of Tijuana's airport. It's already capable of handling larger aircraft, we just need to start using it.

[SDfan]

New post from sdurban http://sdurban.com/?p=9846

[mello]

Finally an SD Urban update: 8-9 floors on Polk and Park Blvd. the lot by Sprouts I keep asking about! Hell yes! Then height at Park and El Cajon Blvd. (Lusti Motors lot) this is huge for that corridor. Then what the heck is up on I-15 from Adams to University they are putting in a bus lane??? I noticed they are tearing out the freeway bushes right now.

Spoke with Dan McSwain of UT San Diego today and he said Qualcomm and developers are complaining like crazy about the city's development services department saying City of SD is incredibly difficult to deal with and they are fed up big time. Any news of Qualcomms midrises that were supposed to be built on Sorrento Mesa, are they still a go?

--- Article says SD is third most suburban large city in US behind San Antonio and Phoenix... Uh Charlotte, Nashville, Austin, Tampa, Indianapolis, and Orlando are all 2 million plus metro areas that are far less urban than SD. I think our numbers get skewed because of military bases, canyons, Mission Trails, Regional park, Mission Bay, etc. Is SD suburban yes of course but not 3rd most in US by a long shot.

[SDfan]

Any news of Qualcomms midrises that were supposed to be built on Sorrento Mesa, are they still a go?

Last I heard, Qualcomm was putting all of their expansion plans in SD on pause because of their frustration with the development department (and those massive fines in China may have something to do with it too...)

[mello]

Last I heard, Qualcomm was putting all of their expansion plans in SD on pause because of their frustration with the development department (and those massive fines in China may have something to do with it too...)

You have got to be kidding me. This should be an outrage with articles in UT and a huge comments list. This is economic activity from a known entity (by far the largest in the Metro area) just being flushed down the toilet. Tons of tax revenue lost, unbelievable that Fualconer is not all over this. I'm pissed :hell:

[SDCAL]

As someone who has never flown internationally, this sounds extremely frustrating and inefficient! So you're saying if somebody took a flight from Vancouver to LA, and then LA to SD, they'd have to go get their checked bags and then recheck them????

Yeah. Depending on the airline and if you have a codeshare, your bags may already be checked to the final destination, but even then you would still need to collect your bags at baggage claim, clear customs, and then hand them off to a counter at the airline for the domestic flight. So technically, in some cases, you aren't actually re-checking them but you still have to collect them then hand them back off again.

Maybe there is some agreement with Canada that eliminates this, I have no idea I've never flown into the U.S. from Canada before. But flights from Europe and Asia require clearing customs at the 1st port of entry which means you must collect your baggage then re-deposit it to an airline counter for the domestic leg of the flight.

[aerogt3]

We can't build anything big like that in California anymore. There are too many interests (NIMBYS), too many regulations, and not enough political capital to move forward with anything other than SAN.

I think you can narrow down NIMBYS and too many regulations into too many regulations. NIMBYS in Calfornia only have power because of the climate of over-regulation. Nobody wants a large apartment complex near their house, but whereas other states residents have to accept society's needs, Californians can go to court under the guise of environmentalism or other red tape legislation.

[dales5050]

Article says SD is third most suburban large city in US behind San Antonio and Phoenix... Uh Charlotte, Nashville, Austin, Tampa, Indianapolis, and Orlando are all 2 million plus metro areas that are far less urban than SD. I think our numbers get skewed because of military bases, canyons, Mission Trails, Regional park, Mission Bay, etc. Is SD suburban yes of course but not 3rd most in US by a long shot.


You're absolutely right on this. Have spent considerable time in both San Diego and Charlotte and while they are very different cities, San Diego is much more urban.

In San Diego, you have these lovely pockets of urban areas all over the city. To an outsider, it feels disjointed because there is not a lot of connections between each (due to the canyons) but this actually is what makes it special. Each of these pockets have their own personality and community.

In Charlotte, the city is pretty much on a radial grid and while everything is connected, outside of just a few pockets, it's all the same. Just another strip mall or two, made of brick of course, and maybe a single historic building.

The reason why Charlotte may be considered more urban is it has a single core, whereas SD has multiple, and in this core they are building much greater density. That said, a regions urbanism should be judged by the weakest link not the strongest.

[Streamliner]

Then what the heck is up on I-15 from Adams to University they are putting in a bus lane??? I noticed they are tearing out the freeway bushes right now.


That looks to be part of the Mid-City BRT line, they are putting in freeway level stations that will connect to the main street levels at University Ave and El Cajon Blvd. They just broke ground yesterday I think.

http://www.keepsandiegomoving.com/I-15-Corridor/I-15-transit-projects_SR15.aspx

Graphics:

http://www.keepsandiegomoving.com/Libraries/I15-Corridor-doc/MidCity_BRT_Station_Images.sflb.ashx

[spoonman]

--- Article says SD is third most suburban large city in US behind San Antonio and Phoenix... Uh Charlotte, Nashville, Austin, Tampa, Indianapolis, and Orlando are all 2 million plus metro areas that are far less urban than SD. I think our numbers get skewed because of military bases, canyons, Mission Trails, Regional park, Mission Bay, etc. Is SD suburban yes of course but not 3rd most in US by a long shot.

I take issue with the study for a few reasons...


The other cities in the comparison (besides Phoenix and San Antonio) were NY, LA, Boston, Philly, Chicago, SF, etc. These are cities with much more pre-war development...of course SD is quite urban, but we all know it is not yet as urban as these cities.

Also, this article was based on a survey asking people whether they felt their area was urban or suburban. Your guess is as good as mine, but I suspect many retiree types identified more with suburban...the types that still think it is the 1950's in San Diego. We have a lot of them.

This city has a bit of an inferiority complex, never thinking it is as worthy as other places like LA or SF.

[Nerv]

This city has a bit of an inferiority complex, never thinking it is as worthy as other places like LA or SF.
[/LIST]

Having lived in Los Angeles and San Francisco (with a bunch of family still in both cities) I'm going to comment that some of our perception from them is we think we are better. How many times do we hear our positives over LA's negatives?

I like all three cities for different reasons but if I wanted San Diego to be exactly like one of them I'd just move back there. I live here because I don't want San Diego to be exactly like them. Both those cities have issues I at least don't want to deal with on a day to day basis.


I will say a lot of the negative comments on how much better those cities are over us here is from people who like to pick on every little thing in the city that isn't done to their standards. We'll never do this or be that or whatever.

Nimby's exist all over. Not just here. In my opinion they aren't all bad because when you lack voices against things you get unrestrained building that leads to its own problems. Nimbly' at their best keep things in check. Now at their worst they stall or kill projects we need.

San Diego's nimby's can't stop the cities progress now. The cats out of the bag for them. They can downsize or stall or even kill a few projects here and there but the city will continue to grow despite their opposition. They can slow things, not stop them entirely. It's been that way for years now.

We are Californias oldest city in age but the newest in development when compared to LA or SF so it's not always fair to compare us. At least we've been able to stand out as a city in California and not get eaten up in the shadows of LA (like the OC) or SF (like San Jose,etc.). When I say I'm from San Diego to my friends back east they know now exactly where I'm from.

[spoonman]

Shot of part of downtown from Shelter Island. You can see the impact of 15th & Island (and crane) in this picture towards the right side. This first tower, plus the second tower should help fill in our skyline's "dead spot"...at least from this vantage point.

http://cdn.sandiegouniontrib.com/img/photos/2015/04/23/UTI1848184_r900x493.jpg?122770e84b36f1c039d5c4c2ca15c2d8bc4ecd52

[spoonman]

Interesting article about the undermining of density goals in East Village as a result of the recession.

http://sandiego.urbdezine.com/2015/06/19/east-village-san-diegos-idea-1-building-proposed-amid-concerns-about-under-building/

[dales5050]

Interesting article about the undermining of density goals in East Village as a result of the recession.

http://sandiego.urbdezine.com/2015/06/19/east-village-san-diegos-idea-1-building-proposed-amid-concerns-about-under-building/

Bummer.

Since this mentioned the Salvation Army, is it cold to think that the Salvation Army should wait until the market is at it's peak again and sell the various parcels they own?

They can stay downtown but a single consolidated building would do better for the city and the cash they would get from the sale would go to help those in need.

[The Flying Dutchman]

Bummer.

Since this mentioned the Salvation Army, is it cold to think that the Salvation Army should wait until the market is at it's peak again and sell the various parcels they own?

They can stay downtown but a single consolidated building would do better for the city and the cash they would get from the sale would go to help those in need.

Can confirm building permits for IDEA1 were rejected. As for what will happen to the site, I don't think anyone knows.

LOTS of new information was released by CivicSD today via their notices. As it is, I'm too lazy to post it here for you guys, sorry!

[Northparkwizard]

4th and J drawings. (http://civicsd.com/images/stories/4th__J_Drawings_-_reduced.pdf)

Alexan Little Italy drawings. (http://civicsd.com/images/stories/Alexan_Drawings_-_reduced.pdf)

[mello]

Building permits were rejected... Why? I thought IDEA1 was set to go. Spoonman: go to Bali Hai on shelter island and walk over to where they do weddings right on bay 15th and Island perfectly fills gap from there.

[spoonman]

Anyone else bummed or surprised that 4th & J is only 6 floors and lacks retail in such a prime location. I know every building can't be a huge tower, but this site is situated between Harbor Club and Gaslamp.

I'm glad that the city took a stand against low density with the rejection of the Idea project, but at least that project had merits. How did this sneak through if Idea didn't??? Any ideas???

Edit: I see that 4th & J has not yet been reviewed. Will be interesting to see how this shakes out.

[tyleraf]

Spoonman: 4th and J is under the Gaslamp's height limit.

[SDfan]

Projects:

Alexan Little Italy

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/Alexan%20Little%20Italy%201.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/Alexan%20Little%20Italy%201.jpg.html)

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/Alexan%20Little%20Italy%202.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/Alexan%20Little%20Italy%202.jpg.html)

4th & J Street

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/4th%20amp%20J%202.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/4th%20amp%20J%202.jpg.html)

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/4th%20amp%20J%201.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/4th%20amp%20J%201.jpg.html)

7th & Market

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/7th%20amp%20Market%201.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/7th%20amp%20Market%201.jpg.html)

Park & Market

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/Park%20amp%20Market%201.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/Park%20amp%20Market%201.jpg.html)

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/Park%20amp%20Market%203.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/Park%20amp%20Market%203.jpg.html)

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/Park%20amp%20Market%202.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/Park%20amp%20Market%202.jpg.html)

16th & Island

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/16th2.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/16th2.jpg.html)

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/16th%20amp%20Island%201.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/16th%20amp%20Island%201.jpg.html)

There was also a listing for a 330 13th Street project, about 240' tall, 240+ units.

[SDfan]

Can confirm building permits for IDEA1 were rejected. As for what will happen to the site, I don't think anyone knows.

Where is the info/source for this? If it's true, I would be thrilled. Those mid-rises are going to be the death of the East Village skyline.

[SDfan]

Just as a reminder:

7th & A

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/7thA.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/7thA.jpg.html)

Alexan San Diego (just south of 15th & Island)

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/Alexan.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/Alexan.jpg.html)

That hotel near Alta...

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/HiltonCanopy.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/HiltonCanopy.jpg.html)

1435 Imperial Ave

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/1453Imperial.jpg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/1453Imperial.jpg.html)

New Library Tower

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/Library%20Tower.jpeg (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/SDfan12/media/Public/Library%20Tower.jpeg.html)

[spoonman]

Spoonman: 4th and J is under the Gaslamp's height limit.

True, though I believe the Gaslamp height limit is approximately equal to 12 floors.

[Northparkwizard]

True, though I believe the Gaslamp height limit is approximately equal to 12 floors.

Below grade parking, does that factor in to the total floor count? The new Pendry hotel is like block away and it's a mid-ride. Maybe they got a variance?

Seems silly that they're demanding more density in East Village yet discouraging it in the shadow of the Harbor Club Condominiums. But that's the way it is...

:uhh:

[mello]

Things are getting stumpy!! Not to complain but Park and Market (I'm assuming its the one that has mostly been referred to as 12th/Market where Quartyard is) should be taller. I was really hoping for something over 400 feet there. Also the new Library Tower is a big disappointment in height. The rest look nice but short... Oh well, guess this is Seattle, Toronoto, or Miami where developers are looking to max out their lots, heck even Austin is building 400 ft. plus residential.

Isn't there another tower by 7th and A that is starting soon as well?

[The Flying Dutchman]

Where is the info/source for this? If it's true, I would be thrilled. Those mid-rises are going to be the death of the East Village skyline.

I may be wrong. See the June 17th minutes, scroll down to bottom of page four. It's confusing, but it could be they denied the 6th ave. suites hotel, rather.

http://dcpcsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Item-2-150617-DCPC-Minutes-Draft.pdf

[spoonman]

Things are getting stumpy!! Not to complain but Park and Market (I'm assuming its the one that has mostly been referred to as 12th/Market where Quartyard is) should be taller. I was really hoping for something over 400 feet there. Also the new Library Tower is a big disappointment in height. The rest look nice but short... Oh well, guess this is Seattle, Toronoto, or Miami where developers are looking to max out their lots, heck even Austin is building 400 ft. plus residential.

Isn't there another tower by 7th and A that is starting soon as well?

Don't get too down, man. There are a number of projects over 40 floors...

Broadway and Pacific - 41 floors
880 Broadway - 45 floors
15th & Island 1&2 - 45 floors x 2
Broadway & 7th ("the block") - 41 floors
7th & Market - 42 floors

[spoonman]

I may be wrong. See the June 17th minutes, scroll down to bottom of page four. It's confusing, but it could be they denied the 6th ave. suites hotel, rather.

http://dcpcsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Item-2-150617-DCPC-Minutes-Draft.pdf

Right. It looks like there was pushback, but it may have been approved. :shrug:

[SDfan]

I may be wrong. See the June 17th minutes, scroll down to bottom of page four. It's confusing, but it could be they denied the 6th ave. suites hotel, rather.

http://dcpcsd.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Item-2-150617-DCPC-Minutes-Draft.pdf

According to the minutes, the designs for IDEA 1 were approved. The project is moving forward.

[mello]

Does anyone know the height of 12th and Market? I'm hoping there is a chance the developer whose proposal was chosen might add on some more floors. Any news on the California Theatre being torn down and that 436ft. proposal?

[chris08876]

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/Public/Library%20Tower.jpeg

I like this development. Reminds me of something similar in Madrid, which is also a library. Very nice addition.

[SDCAL]

Anyone else bummed or surprised that 4th & J is only 6 floors and lacks retail in such a prime location. I know every building can't be a huge tower, but this site is situated between Harbor Club and Gaslamp.

I'm glad that the city took a stand against low density with the rejection of the Idea project, but at least that project had merits. How did this sneak through if Idea didn't??? Any ideas???

Edit: I see that 4th & J has not yet been reviewed. Will be interesting to see how this shakes out.

Which corner (SE, SW, NW, NE) of 4th and J is this slated for? Maybe I have this location confused, but are they demoing something for it? Aren't there restaurants/world market warehouse there with no empty lot I'm aware of? In any case, I agree with you about the design - it's horrendous. The street level looks dark, uninviting, and uninspiring for any type of retail business.

On the other hand, I do like the street level design on the Alexan, large high windows with some kind of stone molding work around them it appears. Very classy/elegant in appearance and will attract retailers and customers alike.

What about 1st and J street, where j street ends? That's been a huge eyesore parking lot for sometime, I remember years ago seeing a high rise planned for that spot, anyone have any info on it?

I also like the park and market design. Agree it could be taller, but I like the street level design.

[SDCAL]

IDEA1

I'm baffled by this project. Something has seemed sketchy from the beginning. It has been well touted by both the IDEA1 people themselves as well as by city officials as being a catalyst of innovation to spark this world-class urban tech district. It seemed like everyone was on the same page that this was a key development certain to happen as soon as the economy improved. Then the economy improved and the current boom starts, and IDEA1 remains a fenced lot. We are told "definitely" a ground breaking fall of this year.

Now, seemingly out of the blue, this density issue comes up. This project has been on the table for years now, it's been re-designed at least once, and it's been publicly touted as a key stimulator for the entire East Village. So, why the hell is this density thing just coming forward now??????? Someone really dropped the ball here or what!?!?

Does this mean the project is in jeapordy and, if so, the e tire IDEA district in jeapordy? I think the IDEA District is a brilliant idea but those who came up with it seem incompetent to actually see it to fruition.

On a positive note, I was in Hillcrest earlier today and drove by Mr. Robinson. Very nice. Hope to see more designs like that raising up in the mid city area :)

[spoonman]

Which corner (SE, SW, NW, NE) of 4th and J is this slated for? Maybe I have this location confused, but are they demoing something for it? Aren't there restaurants/world market warehouse there with no empty lot I'm aware of? In any case, I agree with you about the design - it's horrendous. The street level looks dark, uninviting, and uninspiring for any type of retail business.

On the other hand, I do like the street level design on the Alexan, large high windows with some kind of stone molding work around them it appears. Very classy/elegant in appearance and will attract retailers and customers alike.

What about 1st and J street, where j street ends? That's been a huge eyesore parking lot for sometime, I remember years ago seeing a high rise planned for that spot, anyone have any info on it?

I also like the park and market design. Agree it could be taller, but I like the street level design.

Yes, 4th and J is going to be built where World Market sits. So we're trading solid retail for no retail. I hope the city makes an example out of this for others proposing similar garbage.

1st and J is another lot owned by Bosa. Since he seemingly will not take on two projects at once, this will be parking for the next 5+ years... he has to finish Broadway & PCH 1, then 2, then Kettner & Ash, before taking on this project. You'd think he could partner with another firm to expedite some projects.

[spoonman]

IDEA1

I'm baffled by this project. Something has seemed sketchy from the beginning. It has been well touted by both the IDEA1 people themselves as well as by city officials as being a catalyst of innovation to spark this world-class urban tech district. It seemed like everyone was on the same page that this was a key development certain to happen as soon as the economy improved. Then the economy improved and the current boom starts, and IDEA1 remains a fenced lot. We are told "definitely" a ground breaking fall of this year.

Now, seemingly out of the blue, this density issue comes up. This project has been on the table for years now, it's been re-designed at least once, and it's been publicly touted as a key stimulator for the entire East Village. So, why the hell is this density thing just coming forward now??????? Someone really dropped the ball here or what!?!?

Does this mean the project is in jeapordy and, if so, the e tire IDEA district in jeapordy? I think the IDEA District is a brilliant idea but those who came up with it seem incompetent to actually see it to fruition.

On a positive note, I was in Hillcrest earlier today and drove by Mr. Robinson. Very nice. Hope to see more designs like that raising up in the mid city area :)

You're right. IDEA is starting to raise questions. Not only have the developers drawn this out, but the credibility and scope of the development is also suspect (though you could indict many others as well). The multi block developments proposed by IDEA (Maker's Quarter is the same group, correct?) are mostly low rise and under utilize the land in question. It seems that IDEA is making excuses for the small scope of their development... as if it's the city's problem. I really don't want to watch them botch the rest of the Maker's Quarter project over the coming years or eons.

[Bertrice]

wasn't Idea District the brainchild of Jerome's furniture Guy?
whaddya expect?

[Nerv]

Took this shot from the library today.

http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpeg/dae165116b91c4b8567ce63d1b8ea9165cb61eef.jpg


Is the lot being worked on in the right side the Alexan or something else?


If so, when are they going to break ground?

Also any news on when the second Pinnacle tower breaks ground?

It looks lonely.

[SDCAL]

Are there two projects called "Alexan" being proposed? If so, that's pretty lame. We can't even have original names for the projects downtown?

[Nerv]

This is the Alexan project I thought it might be in my picture:


http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2014/oct/28/alexan-civicsd-trammell-crow/


I wasn't aware there was another.

[Nerv]

i spent the past week in the downtown thanks to Comic Con with a friend who lives in the Gaslamp. The city is looking better with some of the more recent additions and it's kind of exciting to see a lot more going on with construction in the different parts of downtown.

Like most posters here I would love to see more taller projects going in but in my opinion here's what I see as the most lacking aspects that need work on.

1) More people living downtown. I think having a more active feel on the streets with people who actually live here is going to be a vital part of the downtown experience in the future. Right now it's better than the past but still kind of a dead feel at times. Comic Con's masses in downtown were excessive but damn fun with their energy. I wish the city had 1/10 of that regularly.


2) Better retail experience. OK, it has Horton Plaza and I don't expect a New York level of shopping but really not a single Target or Best Buy? Outside of going to the mall it's highlight is a CVS! It's still a retail wasteland. I'm hoping as more people move it that changes soon. It's got lots of restaurants, a couple of grocery stores but is lacking in the retail basics. Awful.

3) More business/projects that draw people into the city. I'm not saying it needs a theme park in the middle of downtown but it needs more retail projects or events or whatever that make a trip downtown worth making with something you can't find elsewhere.


Anyway it's improving. More hotels are still needed, it's nightlife in the Gaslamp and around on the weekends should continue to expand and the transit is looking improved with the bike sharing and cars 2go (both those I thought were awesome). I only get to the downtown these days a few times a year but it really is looking nice to me. A long ways to go still but a lot of progress in many areas. :)

[spoonman]

UTC expansion is moving forward. Will include 400,000sf of new retail space as well as a new 5 level parking structure with a skybridge to the new elevated trolley station on Genesee.

According to the article, UTC still plans on adding the previously approved 300 apartment units at the corner of Genesee and La Jolla Village Dr. No timeline is set yet, but it sounds like this will happen after the retail expansion.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jul/14/utc-expansion-nordstrom-parking/

Does anyone know the status of the Monte/Costa Verde project on the other corner of Gen & LJV Dr?

[Streamliner]

UC San Diego Health System may rename new Trolley line
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jul/13/UC-San-Diego-naming-new-blue-line-trolley/

San Diego’s planned new trolley line is expected to bear the name of one of its biggest destinations.

University of California, San Diego is poised to enter into an approximately $30 million deal with the Metropolitan Transit System to dub the Mid-Coast Trolley Line the “UC San Diego Blue Line.”

The moniker is a nod to the school’s campuses, medical center and facilities that all sit alongside the proposed mass transit route.

Besides rights to name the trolley, the station at Old Town will be called the “Old Town UC San Diego Health Campus South,” and the university will also get to name the two new trolley stations on its campus in La Jolla. The institution’s logo will appear on station signs, trolley maps, schedules, one-way tickets, and on major advertisements wrapped around trolley cars. It also gets to be the exclusive health care, research and education advertiser on the line.

Details of the 30-year deal will be discussed at Thursday’s MTS meeting. Funding from the university will come from nonstate sources, documents show. MTS declined to comment and a spokesman at UC San Diego did not respond to a request for comment.

UC San Diego will pay MTS $675,000 for naming rights while the line is under construction. On the first year of trolley service the fee will increase to $945,000. After that, the annual cost will increase with the local inflation rate.

I really dislike special naming rights for transit. Information needs to be accessible, understandable, and simple. Renaming the Old Town stop sounds like a really bad idea. A stop needs to display clearly the name of its location, not reference something 8 miles to the north.

[SDCAL]

This is the Alexan project I thought it might be in my picture:


http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2014/oct/28/alexan-civicsd-trammell-crow/


I wasn't aware there was another.

There is also this:

http://civicsd.com/images/stories/Alexan_Drawings_-_reduced.pdf

It appears there will be an Alexan Little Italy and an Alexan EV.

[HurricaneHugo]

UC San Diego Health System may rename new Trolley line
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jul/13/UC-San-Diego-naming-new-blue-line-trolley/



I really dislike special naming rights for transit. Information needs to be accessible, understandable, and simple. Renaming the Old Town stop sounds like a really bad idea. A stop needs to display clearly the name of its location, not reference something 8 miles to the north.

All that for less than a million per year?

I agree with you

Do any other transit systems do the same thing?

[mello]

Does anyone know why Bosa doesn't build multiple projects at once? You would think he would want to take advantage of this strong business cycle while it lasts and get in before the next recession hits.

When the two Mercato Buildings and Alexan are finished Little Italy is going to be one of the best urban districts in the Western US in my opinion what do you guys think. The dining scene there is starting to get national attention.

[spoonman]

^ Good observation. The area has a lot to offer and I agree that the dining scene has really started to garner attention.

[dtell04]

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/Dtell04/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsjafb7q55.jpg (http://s1027.photobucket.com/user/Dtell04/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsjafb7q55.jpg.html)

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/Dtell04/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsnmdmmkkm.jpg (http://s1027.photobucket.com/user/Dtell04/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsnmdmmkkm.jpg.html)

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/Dtell04/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsmwod6hm9.jpg (http://s1027.photobucket.com/user/Dtell04/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsmwod6hm9.jpg.html)

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/Dtell04/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsaz4wbsm8.jpg (http://s1027.photobucket.com/user/Dtell04/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsaz4wbsm8.jpg.html)



Here are a few pictures of hole digging for the Alexan and ballpark village

[The Flying Dutchman]

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jul/14/chargers-council-money-environment-nfl-stadium/

City approves 2.1 million for an accelerated EIR for a new stadium.

This whole deal reminds me of that one girlfriend that you knew was bad for you, but you couldn't seem to let go. :koko:

[spoonman]

Thanks for the pictures, dtell04. Its exciting to see projects moving closer to the MTS headquarters and transit station, making the station increasingly useful.

PS: The excavation for Ballpark Village looks absolutely massive.

[spoonman]

Anyone know what is happening off the 805 and Nobel? There is a huge crane erected?

[Streamliner]

Anyone know what is happening off the 805 and Nobel? There is a huge crane erected?

I haven't driven by there recently, but I can only imagine that it has to do with the expansion of the Illumina HQ near there:

http://www.biospace.com/News/illumina-moving-forward-with-san-diego-expansion/356710

[eburress]

I haven't driven by there recently, but I can only imagine that it has to do with the expansion of the Illumina HQ near there:

http://www.biospace.com/News/illumina-moving-forward-with-san-diego-expansion/356710

I thought that the crane was for more of the same apartments that are already down in that ditch but I could be wrong.

[aerogt3]

UC San Diego Health System may rename new Trolley line
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jul/13/UC-San-Diego-naming-new-blue-line-trolley/



I really dislike special naming rights for transit. Information needs to be accessible, understandable, and simple. Renaming the Old Town stop sounds like a really bad idea. A stop needs to display clearly the name of its location, not reference something 8 miles to the north.

Naming the line is a good idea and an easy revenue source. The stations should keep their original names though.

[dales5050]

Better retail experience. OK, it has Horton Plaza and I don't expect a New York level of shopping but really not a single Target or Best Buy? Outside of going to the mall it's highlight is a CVS! It's still a retail wasteland. I'm hoping as more people move it that changes soon. It's got lots of restaurants, a couple of grocery stores but is lacking in the retail basics. Awful.

I think Horton Plaza is a sleeping giant. It's a massive complex that is not going anywhere and there are so many 3rd rate stores in that mall right now. That 'book store' on the 3rd floor has been selling the same inventory and running without AC for almost 3 years now. :(

Westfield is pouring $500M into UTC and I could see a similar, if not greater, investment into Horton in about 5-8 years if residential numbers continue to grow. Imagine if they replaced the walls on Nordstrom with glass like in Union Square. Same for Macy's. The view is much different now than when the mall was built.

That said, I don't think a Best Buy or Target should be the goal. My concern is you would get another Ralphs rather than an Albertsons, which has residential above.

I always thought a Macy's Home or Williams-Sonoma would be a much better fit. It's amazing how difficult it is to find any products for the home in downtown.

[spoonman]

I thought that the crane was for more of the same apartments that are already down in that ditch but I could be wrong.

There are two cranes. I think Streamliner is correct, the second crane is for the Illumina expansion at the corner of Nobel and Judicial.

Regarding retail, I imagine World Market will be looking for a new lease somewhere downtown once they get kicked out of 4th and J.

[Nerv]

I think Horton Plaza is a sleeping giant. It's a massive complex that is not going anywhere and there are so many 3rd rate stores in that mall right now. That 'book store' on the 3rd floor has been selling the same inventory and running without AC for almost 3 years now. :(

Westfield is pouring $500M into UTC and I could see a similar, if not greater, investment into Horton in about 5-8 years if residential numbers continue to grow. Imagine if they replaced the walls on Nordstrom with glass like in Union Square. Same for Macy's. The view is much different now than when the mall was built.

That said, I don't think a Best Buy or Target should be the goal. My concern is you would get another Ralphs rather than an Albertsons, which has residential above.

I always thought a Macy's Home or Williams-Sonoma would be a much better fit. It's amazing how difficult it is to find any products for the home in downtown.



Yeah, I'm not sure if part of the issue is there isn't enough people downtown yet to support those types of businesses but it certainly is a pain in the ass to have drive out of the city for some of your most basic shopping needs. Before the city can even approach the shopping experience seen in other cities they need to get the basics covered. Having a mall is cool for sure but you need the rest to go with it.

[Nerv]

Good news for these two projects today.



http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jul/15/two-housing-hotel-office-projects-east-village/


I'm really crossing my fingers for that Ritz Carlton project to stay as stated and get built. It would fill in that area very nicely.

[spoonman]

Yeah, I'm not sure if part of the issue is there isn't enough people downtown yet to support those types of businesses but it certainly is a pain in the ass to have drive out of the city for some of your most basic shopping needs. Before the city can even approach the shopping experience seen in other cities they need to get the basics covered. Having a mall is cool for sure but you need the rest to go with it.

I have read many times that the idea for Horton Plaza (at least as of a few years ago) is to turn the mall inside out. The issue as I understand is that the mall was built to keep people insulated from the surrounding areas, which I understand were quite bad, when the mall was built. Nowadays, people want to walk around the city and not be bound inside the mall. So the mall must open outward to provide street frontage to it's retail tenants.

I believe that we will continue to see the addition of retail downtown (which is slowly happening), but that a redesigned outward facing Horton Plaza will be the catalyst to turn the immediate area into a real shopping district. I believe 5 years from now, things will look very different, especially with the addition of major new projects along Market street.

[dales5050]

Yeah, I'm not sure if part of the issue is there isn't enough people downtown yet to support those types of businesses but it certainly is a pain in the ass to have drive out of the city for some of your most basic shopping needs. Before the city can even approach the shopping experience seen in other cities they need to get the basics covered. Having a mall is cool for sure but you need the rest to go with it.

I get it. Gladly drive to the Target at Sports Arena to avoid having another big box with a parking lot in the core...but I get it.

Now if San Diego could do a project similar to the Metropolitan (http://www.metropolitanclt.com/) somewhere in the EV...that would be awesome.

[Nerv]

I remember getting excited a few years ago when they got the CVS in. Lol. I was happy to see it there even if it was a mini version of their regularly sized stores.


I have malls around me in my neck of the woods (La Jolla or Carlsbad) but even if I lived close to one of them to shop every day they simply don't contain a lot of the day to day stuff I want from a retailer.

Horton Plaza is good for some stuff even though it is more of a trip with parking,walking,etc. than you expect from running into a normal shopping center like we are used to.

My issue is that beyond it or the CVS my friends downtown are regularly driving out of town to the Costco or Walmart or Target or Best Buy or Bed,Bath and Beyond or whatever because they don't exist in downtown.

I remember people in the past saying downtown needed to try and get some of the larger companies to move downtown but unless you start making the normal day to day stuff easier for people you're going to have get people to be willing to spend a fair amount of their time driving out of town to go places that are usually clustered around most cities we have in the north county.


I'm currently splitting my time in Cardiff and Solana Beach but after a week in downtown I felt like I was living on a island in some respects with my time there.


Hopefully one of those mentioned above tries the downtown market soon because as much as I love Whole Foods I'd have rather seen one of them mentioned in a new project instead. Downtown is fine with grocery stores and restaurants, thank you.

[mello]

Notes from article on Market Projects: 12th/Market will have 51k sq. feet of office space but it looks like it is off to the side so won't really contribute to added height of the structure due to higher floor plates for office space. (Developer said it won't be finished till 2020 Booo)

Why does everything take so long here? How about Terminal 1 demo and rebuild did you guys see they have chosen a plan but it won't begin until 2020!!! WTF

Good to see more Biotech space getting added but now its time to get Qualcomm back to the table and rolling on their 1.2 million square foot expansion. MTS Busyard would be so sweet for that, or Navy Broadway Complex.

[Nerv]

Terminal one has been in the news a lot lately. Here's the latest:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jul/15/airport-terminal-replacement/



From that article here's a timeline.



The staff has yet to set out a schedule for implementation of whatever plan is eventually approved.

The board is tentatively scheduled to review a financing plan in September and approve the preferred alternative in October.
An environmental impact report would be delivered in the spring of 2017.
Preliminary design work would be required before seeking approval from the Coastal Commission, a process that could take several months if not a year or more.
Final working drawings and financing would follow before construction on the first phase could commence.
Chairman Gleason said it would be difficult to break ground on the terminal before 2020.




One of the sticking points right now is this: $$$$

It'll get built when they figure out the cost and payment plan.

[spoonman]

Curious what everyone's opinions are on EIRs. Are these killing our economy? Are EIRs necessary tools? Or is the truth somewhere in between?

At a glance, we have a few major projects currently held up by the EIR process...NFL stadium, Rebuilt Airport T1, I-5 expansion, etc. These are just a few major public projects that I can think of at the moment.

Should we eliminate EIRs for public and possibly private projects?

[SDCAL]

I have read many times that the idea for Horton Plaza (at least as of a few years ago) is to turn the mall inside out. The issue as I understand is that the mall was built to keep people insulated from the surrounding areas, which I understand were quite bad, when the mall was built. Nowadays, people want to walk around the city and not be bound inside the mall. So the mall must open outward to provide street frontage to it's retail tenants.

I believe that we will continue to see the addition of retail downtown (which is slowly happening), but that a redesigned outward facing Horton Plaza will be the catalyst to turn the immediate area into a real shopping district. I believe 5 years from now, things will look very different, especially with the addition of major new projects along Market street.

I remember reading the same thing, I think it is on Westfield's radar to turn Horton "inside out" which is desperately needed. It's like a big ugly fortress. I think SD's downtown is too new, but I wonder if we will see the concept of districts emerge. Things like arts districts, design districts, fashion districts, etc. I think little Italy is an emerging design and arts district where you find some home-type stores as well as art galleries. The good thing about Horton is that it has a concentration of what I would describe as primarily apparel type retailers, if these retailers could remain in the same area but be accessible from the street as opposed to an internal mall it would really transform the area and the "restaurant district" of the gaslamp could intermingle with the retail. More people might be inclined to shop either befor or after lunch or dinner if it all seemed more cohesive. Another thing I've noticed is that outside of Horton I see a number of local mostly female clothing boutiques. I'm not sure how well they do downtown as they are in random areas, but if the chain retail at Horton was turned "inside out" then perhaps some of the local stores could set up shop nearby and benefit from the foot traffic.

I really like the idea Dale mentioned about using glass similar to SF's Union Square for the larger dept stores like Nordstrom and Macy's. It would look great from inside and outside the stores.

[SDCAL]

Good news for these two projects today.



http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jul/15/two-housing-hotel-office-projects-east-village/


I'm really crossing my fingers for that Ritz Carlton project to stay as stated and get built. It would fill in that area very nicely.

You and me both. This is, in my opinion, the most important project in San Diego's pipeline currently, and I'm really hoping it moves forward in reasonable time.

[dtell04]

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/Dtell04/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsajygfwzk.jpg (http://s1027.photobucket.com/user/Dtell04/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsajygfwzk.jpg.html)

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/Dtell04/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpshyjxhyz1.jpg (http://s1027.photobucket.com/user/Dtell04/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpshyjxhyz1.jpg.html)

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/Dtell04/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsirwunksv.jpg (http://s1027.photobucket.com/user/Dtell04/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsirwunksv.jpg.html)

This is Park and C new construction. A neighbor in the building told me he spoke to a city inspector and the work is being held up because they have archaeologists investigating the site now. Apparently they found something. Additionally, they did not expect to find the concrete under the old parking lot.
Has anyone heard anything about this?

[dtell04]

Curious what everyone's opinions are on EIRs. Are these killing our economy? Are EIRs necessary tools? Or is the truth somewhere in between?

At a glance, we have a few major projects currently held up by the EIR process...NFL stadium, Rebuilt Airport T1, I-5 expansion, etc. These are just a few major public projects that I can think of at the moment.

Should we eliminate EIRs for public and possibly private projects?

I think its somewhere in between. There was a good intention with this law but there seems to be too many holes and it has allowed people like Briggs to make a living challenging projects that really have no significant environmental impact.
We all know that replacing the Q with a different stadium should be a no brainer. But instead the city is spending 2.1 million dollars to hurry this along and in the end Briggs will probably sue because the funding plan is inadequate. Meanwhile in Carson, 8,000 plus signatures and a few nobody politicians can legally exempt the whole process?
I would support scrapping the law and coming up with something that actually makes sense.

[The Flying Dutchman]

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/Dtell04/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsajygfwzk.jpg (http://s1027.photobucket.com/user/Dtell04/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsajygfwzk.jpg.html)

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/Dtell04/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpshyjxhyz1.jpg (http://s1027.photobucket.com/user/Dtell04/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpshyjxhyz1.jpg.html)

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/Dtell04/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsirwunksv.jpg (http://s1027.photobucket.com/user/Dtell04/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsirwunksv.jpg.html)

This is Park and C new construction. A neighbor in the building told me he spoke to a city inspector and the work is being held up because they have archaeologists investigating the site now. Apparently they found something. Additionally, they did not expect to find the concrete under the old parking lot.
Has anyone heard anything about this?

Thanks for the update. I live nearby and was wondering what the holdup was. I know archaeological findings are to be taken very, very seriously (felony if not halted). The developer must be pissed.

[embora]

Thanks for the update. I live nearby and was wondering what the holdup was. I know archaeological findings are to be taken very, very seriously (felony if not halted). The developer must be pissed.

I don't know any authoritative info either. But from the archaeological interest standpoint, the concrete under the former Gen Lai Sen parking lot must pre-date 1953. In checking http://www.historicaerials.com/, I don't see anything matching that location in any of the aerials, and they date back to 1953 at that location.

If you're not familiar with that website, I recommend taking a look. If you enjoy taking "Google vacations" on Google maps, you'll probably enjoy this site, too.

[dales5050]

I remember getting excited a few years ago when they got the CVS in. Lol. I was happy to see it there even if it was a mini version of their regularly sized stores.

TBH, unless you're walking, it's easier to go out of downtown to get stuff due to parking. Both of the CVS stores are a pain to park at.

Horton Plaza is good for some stuff even though it is more of a trip with parking,walking,etc. than you expect from running into a normal shopping center like we are used to.

IDK. Going to Jimbo's with the reserved parking in the ramp is pretty easy. I would say easier than Mission Valley.

My issue is that beyond it or the CVS my friends downtown are regularly driving out of town to the Costco or Walmart or Target or Best Buy or Bed,Bath and Beyond or whatever because they don't exist in downtown.

I would hope a Costco never makes it downtown. A warehouse store really shouldn't be downtown. As for Walmart/Target/Best Buy, which are somewhere between a grocery store and warehouse, it's difficult in an urban space. It can work but the density has to be to a point where San Diego is not close to being.

I think a Bed, Bath and Beyond is something that could go into the mall.

I remember people in the past saying downtown needed to try and get some of the larger companies to move downtown but unless you start making the normal day to day stuff easier for people you're going to have get people to be willing to spend a fair amount of their time driving out of town to go places that are usually clustered around most cities we have in the north county.

Day to day stuff is 12 rolls of toilet paper not 48. You can get that at the two grocery stores. It might be cheaper at a Target but that's the price you pay to live downtown.

I'm currently splitting my time in Cardiff and Solana Beach but after a week in downtown I felt like I was living on a island in some respects with my time there.

It's a give and take I think. Do you have 100s of places to eat and drink in those locations with access to all of the other things downtown offers?



Hopefully one of those mentioned above tries the downtown market soon because as much as I love Whole Foods I'd have rather seen one of them mentioned in a new project instead. Downtown is fine with grocery stores and restaurants, thank you.


Condos v. houses. Very different lifestyle and storage is an issue. Even if most people would like to buy in bulk, there simply is no room for storage for it in most places. Even the high end larger condos. It's not like there is a freezer in the garage or a room for home essentials. The cost per sq foot for that type of storage can't justify the savings in buying bulk for almost all items.