Tempe Development Thread

[Don B.]

^ I'm guessing this ain't gonna happen. Pick any or all from the following menu:

1. In this market, we will be lucky to see buildings three and four of Centerpoint go up at all, much less at 30+ stories. If anything, look for them to get shaved down or cancelled.

2. They'd have to go through the FAA height approval process all over again if they raised the height, and the FAA might very well decide that anything taller would be a hazard to air navigation. The FAA is governmentium, the slowest, hardest substance known to mankind.

3. Developers in Arizona tend to be undercapitalized and/or lack vision, compared to the other major sunbelt states like California, Texas or Florida.

4. The City of Tempe would require an entire new round of permitting that might pose some problems, especially from neighbors and the city council, if they try to go taller.

5. Anything I've forgotten to list here.

Bottom line, it's probably not going to happen.

--don

[ciweiss]

Don - I think you are right especially if they have only sold 25% of the first tower. I hope that is old info though and they are doing better then that. It would be nice to see the 4 towers. I think that would be a cool area. If they do not build the other two towers it would be nice to see the space used well. A parking garage grocery store combo would be great. Especially if it is a Fresh and Easy or Sprouts. They could even build the garage piece under ground and have the grocery store on the first level and still build some town homes above that. The reason I say sprouts is I'm starting to think the Mosaic is not going to happen. Hope not - I would love to see that thing go up. The Pier project appears to be going full speed. It would be cool if we started to see some buildings going up over there by summertime. I ride my bike around Tempe Town lake and it is really starting to come together. Any word on Onyx?

[loftlovr]

Hate to be a Debbie-Downer but I don't think much of any will happen.
If Centerpoint was even 40 or 50% sold, maybe other developers would be less squeemish. I fear it is even less than 25% reserved for Centerpoint.
Most Phoenix highrises are experiencing an extreme amount of cancellation, people walking from their deposits.
Financing is incredibly hard to get for condos in this time in the marketplace. Most condos have to be either 50% sold or 80% pre-sold in order to get Fannie/ Freddie (conventional) financing.
And the conundrum is that buyers are not reserving these days in fear that prices will drop further. So- developers have to build out in order to sell, and thus they cannot get the presale requirements, but to get the 50% "sold" requirement they rely on 50% selling to buyers who can put down 20%....

It is pretty bad!
I do not see many future highrises working for the next 5 years in Tempe or Downtown Phoenix, and I am more than likely a bigger fan of these buildings than anyone. I hope I am wrong.

[ciweiss]

It seems like if you have maybe 5-10% sales in the Mosaic and Onyx and some of the others (Downtown?) and those projects get nixed then some of those people may buy into Centerpoint or some of the other ones that are already going up. I guess the high 300's is not sounding to good for a 650 sf studio these days. Or a two bedroom for 700K. Hopefully this economy will turn around and we see more of these projects starting again. Of course I still would choose a smaller condo near work than buying the same price McMansion that it takes me 1 1/2 hours to commute (each way) to everyday. I still believe DT Tempe is going to be a really sought after place especially once the light rail starts. I noticed that there were 6 places for sale in my Hayden Square complex and we are now down to 2. This is just based off of 1 website I track for these things so that is good. A 1 bedroom condo was down to 169K which is a smoking deal for the local. It went quick. They are usually 200-200K so it will be interesting to see where things go.

[PC2001]

I've already put my reservation/downpayment on a unit in Centerpoint. With the economy so bad, do you think I can still strike up some incentive or discount even with a signed contract?

[HX_Guy]

A cool picture I ran across on Flickr...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3171/2366003640_c53556301a_b.jpg

[loftlovr]

I've already put my reservation/downpayment on a unit in Centerpoint. With the economy so bad, do you think I can still strike up some incentive or discount even with a signed contract?

It doesn't hurt to try!

[tempedude]

Construction on the parking garage and hotel at 5th St. and Forest Ave., Tempe. What is shown here is basically the parking garage under construction. I spoke to a foreman at the site and he said that the actual hotel construction is set to commence in about 2 weeks. (I think that the hotel is supposed to be something like a 12 story Marriot? Someone correct me if I am wrong please.)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3030/2398492701_108141790c.jpg

Comerica Bank and retail/office space under construction at 5th St. and Mill Ave. (This used to be the empty shell of a building at that corner for quite awhile. Good to see that something is finally being done with it and its moving along.)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3173/2398493657_dcc0e6f8d3_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2011/2398493271_1265e3153f.jpg

Condos along Farmer Ave. (New ones can be seen under construction.)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2096/2399324544_54f7548534_o.jpg

CenterPoint update...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2335/2399322672_4ed9825f30.jpg

Have always liked this vantage point. (Photo taken from beneath light rail bridge looking south down Rio Salado Dr./Ash Ave. towards CenterPoint.)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2158/2398494227_e761a729c1_o.jpg

and...this was taken a couple of months ago, but I wanted to share it here. Photo: Sunset over Tempe Town Lake and the Tempe Center for the Arts[TCA].
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2039/2398494541_6998576918_o.jpg

All photos were taken with a camera phone...so image quality will not be the best. Sorry.

[Sekkle]

Thanks for the pics. I think the Marriot may be 11-stories, but I could be wrong. Good to know that construction is getting underway. The 30-story centerpoint tower looks tall in that photo! :tup: I haven't been back since just before the shorter one topped out, so it will be interesting to see when I'm back there later this month.

[flyer84]

The hotel is going to be an 11-story Marriott Residence Inn with ground floor retail. It should be a really nice addition to downtown Tempe, especially being that its directly across from the light-rail Transportation Center. Here is a rendering from the City of Tempe website:

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1677/marriottiz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[KEVINphx]

if you count the floors on that rendering, there are 12.

weird that they are saying it is 11 floors unless the bottom where is appears to be 2 floors is only 1 double height level.

[sundevilgrad]

I've noticed that they have begun work on the area west of Ash & north of University. You know, the thin little strip of land that runs along the tracks. Farmer Arts District?

[Sekkle]

From azcentral...
New apartments going up near Tempe light rail
by William Hermann - Apr. 9, 2008 11:44 AM
The Arizona Republic

Equinox, a large apartment complex under construction at Apache Boulevard and McClintock Drive, will put thousands of folks right next to the Metro light-rail line that opens in December.

And it will be a big factor in the rejuvenation of Apache Boulevard, officials say.

Equinox will have 408 apartments and 956 parking spaces. But 300 of those spaces are being set aside as a park-and-ride facility for light-rail travelers.

Tempe Mayor Hugh Hallman said figuring out how to deal with the park-and-ride aspect of the site was the key to developing Equinox.

Hallman said that agreements with the federal government, which funded much of the light-rail line, called for a 300-space parking facility on what is now the Equinox site.

"We were faced with putting a huge, bare, ugly, asphalt parking lot - a heat sink, an environmentally bad idea - on this site," Hallman said. "But by working with Gray Development, who came to us with plans for Equinox, we created a shaded structure where commuters can leave their cars in shade and safety. But we've also created beautiful places to live with thousands of square feet of retail.

"This is, I believe, the most important light-rail (related) project that has been done."

Bruce Gray is president of Phoenix-based Gray Development. He said intense planning went into creating an apartment complex that would wrap around a parking structure and also include retail space.

He also said a great deal of research went into considering the viability of putting a high-end, $75 million apartment building on Apache Boulevard, long a rundown part of Tempe and Mesa.

"In a few years, what Apache Boulevard will look like will knock your socks off," Gray said. "In a few more years, you won't recognize it. So many good things are happening here."

Gray said considering that Equinox will be close to one of the largest universities in the Untied States and will be right next to the light-rail line that thousands of people will ride every day, "this investment is not a risk. We specialize in urban infill, high density, high-quality housing. This is what we do and this is a very good project for everyone."

The one-, two- and three-bedroom Equinox apartments will range from 483 square feet to 1,060 square feet and cost about $850 to $1,700 per month. Equinox apartments will generally consist of mezzanine lofts on the fourth level and stacked apartment homes on the three adjoining lower levels.

Amenities at Equinox include 9-foot ceilings in most units, "luxury" kitchens, connections for phone, TV and Internet, full-size washers and dryers, security systems, controlled-access parking gates, a clubhouse with lounge, coffee bar, conference room and fitness center, and a community swimming pool with spa.

Hallman and Gray said it all adds up to good news for Tempe and Apache Boulevard.

John Toliver agrees, and he should know. His family has owned Toliver's Carpet One at 1920 E. Apache Blvd. for 65 years.

"This is progress," Toliver said of Equinox. "It's very positive for Apache Boulevard and the city. With this and with the changes we're already seeing, Apache is looking much better."
http://www.azcentral.com/community/tempe/articles/2008/04/09/20080409tr-equinox0410inside.html

[azsunsurfer]

In regards to equinox, Campus Suites has a project that they've started further east on apache, you can see a rendering at the introduction of their website. Its suppose to be in the same vein as ASU's new residential complex on Apache because it will have ground floor retail sitting right on Apache. The street is coming along nicely.

[HooverDam]

Sounds like a nice project, but renting less than 500sq feet for $850? Thats insane.

[tempedude]

I currently rent an older apt on Apache just east of Rural Road....490sq ft(one bedroom)...for almost $700... so $850..for around 500 sq ft..doesn't surprise me, even if it seems over priced...its just is the going rate in the ASU area...I have friends who rent a 2 bedroom apt in the same vicinity for $1,500, just as an comparable example...

[KEVINphx]

I currently rent an older apt on Apache just east of Rural Road....490sq ft(one bedroom)...for almost $700... so $850..for around 500 sq ft..doesn't surprise me, even if it seems over priced...its just is the going rate in the ASU area...I have friends who rent a 2 bedroom apt in the same vicinity for $1,500, just as an comparable example...

No, it really is a joke. There are cheaper places just down Apache.

I live on Apache just east of the 101 so what, a mile further east? I have a nice 2 bedroom, 2 bath apartment and I pay 700.

You get ripped off in some places around ASU, I think those places charging outrageous rent are just preying on students. $1,500 for a 2 bedroom?! lol unless it's "luxury" rentals, that is a rip off too. I have some friends living at those apartments just east of Pete's and they are not paying anywhere near that for a 2 bedroom 2 bath.

[tempedude]

No, it really is a joke. There are cheaper places just down Apache.

I live on Apache just east of the 101 so what, a mile further east? I have a nice 2 bedroom, 2 bath apartment and I pay 700.

You get ripped off in some places around ASU, I think those places charging outrageous rent are just preying on students. $1,500 for a 2 bedroom?! lol unless it's "luxury" rentals, that is a rip off too. I have some friends living at those apartments just east of Pete's and they are not paying anywhere near that for a 2 bedroom 2 bath.

i agree alot of the rentals around ASU are rip offs... however my friends are paying a luxury rate...their apt is newer with top end amenities... and $1,300 to $1,500 for apartments like theirs is the going rate for luxury rentals in the vicinity (Apache to Broadway and between Rural and McClintock)...and i am paying the going rate (unfortunately) for a 1 one bedroom in the area I am in...seems like $575 to $675 is the rate in the immediate area (rate depends upon the age of the complex also)...

[HX_Guy]

Pier 202 development on Tempe Town Lake shifts focus, takes new name: South Bank
The Business Journal of Phoenix - by Jan Buchholz Phoenix Business Journal

A Scottsdale developer plans to turn its proposed Tempe Town Lake development into a destination that would draw tourists from around the country, or even the world.

The Wolff Co. has renamed its 27-acre Pier 202 development South Bank. Wolff bought a majority interest in the project last year from a California partnership. The site is south of Tempe Town Lake and north of Rio Salado Parkway, between Rural Road and McClintock Drive.

For the past several months, the company has been working with urban planners to flesh out a detailed plan for the prime site.

"We've looked for inspiration in Gramercy Park, Central Park and the South Bank in Australia," said Peter Wolff, co-president and principal of The Wolff Co.

Although the project will incorporate 3.6 million square feet of mixed uses, the focal point will be the Tempe Town Lake waterfront, with a pier planned there.

"We see the pier at this point in time as a highly activated, programmed pier where there would be performances. There could be a detachable dock, and hopefully water taxis will take people back and forth to Tempe Beach Park," Wolff said.

The waterfront also will include a restaurant promenade featuring local and national restaurateurs. The retail component, totaling 260,000 square feet, will be a combination of local and national tenants. Other facets of the development include 2.2 million square feet of rental and for-sale housing product, 889,000 square feet of office space and 170,000 square feet of hotel space.

Although the company still is negotiating with several potential investment and development partners, construction already has begun. Financing, Wolff said, is not an issue.

"We've started moving earth. We're under way with the streets and the infrastructure," he said.

Wolff expects the site work to be completed by the end of the year, with vertical construction beginning in the third quarter of 2009.

Despite the gloomy economic outlook, Wolff said the location already is garnering strong interest from a host of potential partners.

"It's the most visible site in Arizona, with 500,000 cars a day going past it. Compare that with Kierland (in Scottsdale), where there are 50,000 cars a day," Wolff said. "And this is all immediately accessible to the freeway."

Wolff expects the first product to be delivered will be high-end residential rental units. .

[PhxSprawler]

Hopefully this name change will be the pivotal point in getting the project going.

The idea of taking a water taxi in Tempe sounds oddly appealing to me.

[shawneriksmith]

Hopefully this name change will be the pivotal point in getting the project going.

The idea of taking a water taxi in Tempe sounds oddly appealing to me.

Ummm...this project is going. They are moving a lot of dirt over there. It will take a while as this is a massive project, so 2008 will be just a lot of excavation and not much more.

[KEVINphx]

i agree alot of the rentals around ASU are rip offs... however my friends are paying a luxury rate...their apt is newer with top end amenities... and $1,300 to $1,500 for apartments like theirs is the going rate for luxury rentals in the vicinity (Apache to Broadway and between Rural and McClintock)...and i am paying the going rate (unfortunately) for a 1 one bedroom in the area I am in...seems like $575 to $675 is the rate in the immediate area (rate depends upon the age of the complex also)...

yeah, that is true.

our complex is not the best place in the world but it has nice grounds and rent is obviously CHEAP lol

[PhxSprawler]

Ummm...this project is going. They are moving a lot of dirt over there. It will take a while as this is a massive project, so 2008 will be just a lot of excavation and not much more.

...much like University Square, Onyx, Mosaic, 7th Street/Mill, and Stadium Towers. Lots of moving land, excavation, and infrastructure improvements have left me feeling blue balled.

I'm not pestimistic about this happening, I would just like to see it start moving beyond the excavation, leasing, and selling stage sooner than later.

[ciweiss]

http://tempe.gov/comdev/WeeklyUpdate/11APR08.pdf

The above comdev website mentions some information on some different projects happening in Tempe. It states Tempe Gateway's completion date around April of 09 so it sounds like that will be going up rather quick. Good to see. There are some new pics on there as well. They are small but give a cool idea of what that area is going to look like.

btw - PhxSrawler "Lots of moving land, excavation, and infrastructure improvements have left me feeling blue balled. " - that is funnier the sh1t. I know what you mean man.

[tempedude]

yeah, that is true.

our complex is not the best place in the world but it has nice grounds and rent is obviously CHEAP lol

Cheap rent is good, cheaper is even better...but FREE rent is the best.
Know where I can get some?

[andrewkfromaz]

I get some... From your mom!!!

[tempedude]

^uh.....ewww!:yuck:

hardee har har

LOL...I guess I stepped into that one. :haha:

[JAHOPL]

A little more information to supplement HX Guy's post on South Bank:

South Bank development planned for Town Lake

Misty Williams, Tribune, April 12

A more than $1 billion development is starting to take shape along Tempe Town Lake with crews carving out dirt roads that will some day wind through hundreds of upscale offices, residences and shops.

It’s the beginning of what Scottsdale developer The Wolff Co. hopes will become a vibrant, eclectic destination for Valley residents and tourists.

“Every inch of waterfront is being carefully crafted,” said Peter Wolff, co-president of the company along with his three brothers.

Last summer, the firm bought a majority share of the 27-acre project, formerly known as Pier 202, which sits on Rio Salado Parkway just east of Rural Road.

Recently renamed South Bank, the development will encompass 3.6 million square feet of residential, office, retail and hotel space, including roughly 1,400 residences.

The main layout of the plan has already been approved by the City of Tempe and will remain the same. But the developer has reinvented the design to showcase the lake.

A center plaza will open up onto the waterfront, which will be lined with restaurants and a park. The bank will also feature a pier with a floating dock where concerts could be held.

Wolff said the firm plans to bring in partners to develop the various buildings, which could number between nine and 20 and rise up to 22 stories.

Architects will have the freedom to design unique buildings instead of having to prescribe to a template like many mix-used developments, he said.

The goal is to avoid a prepackaged, antiseptic feel — instead creating a diverse look like one might see in Manhattan’s Soho district, Wolff said.

“When you get too much of the same thing it becomes monotonous,” he said.

The Wolff project is just one of more than half a dozen projects — from high-end offices to luxury hotels — recently completed or currently in the works along the lake.

The Valley’s priciest apartment community, Grigio, opened on the north shore last year. Arizona State University is currently negotiating the sale of 9.5 acres of land adjacent to the Wolff property.

And model homes recently opened for the Bridgeview condo tower — part of developer SunCor’s Hayden Ferry Lakeside on the south shore.

The lake area has a lot going for it when it comes to drawing in companies, said Don Arones with commercial brokerage Grubb & Ellis. It’s near multiple freeways and is a central locale for executives in the north and workers in the southeast, said Arones, who is part of the leasing team for South Bank. The university and light rail are also big attractions, he said.

At this point, development at Tempe Town Lake is way ahead of original projections, city community development manager Chris Salomone said.

That’s despite the housing market’s collapse last year.

Other projects in Tempe, including downtown condos, have been shelved for now.

Salomone said he wouldn’t have been surprised if developers along the lake had held off too. But they haven’t.

“They have enough confidence that the economy will return,” he said.

Wolff said he believes the housing market will likely be out of this down cycle by the time South Bank opens.

“The timing is perfect for us to be getting our ducks in a row,” he said.

Construction on the first phase is slated to begin next year with completion in third quarter 2010. Wolff said it could take seven or eight years to finish the entire project.

Wolff also estimates there are 10 million square feet of development in the works around the lake and said he hopes property lines will naturally blur as the area grows.

“(South Bank is) part of a greater whole,” he said. “It’s not a project unto itself.”

[Tempe_Duck]

Wolff said the firm plans to bring in partners to develop the various buildings, which could number between nine and 20 and rise up to 22 stories.

Architects will have the freedom to design unique buildings instead of having to prescribe to a template like many mix-used developments, he said.

The goal is to avoid a prepackaged, antiseptic feel — instead creating a diverse look like one might see in Manhattan’s Soho district, Wolff said.



What does this mean to the current design that was published already?

[flyer84]

From the looks of the old master plan/renderings and what this article says, I think we can say that the plans are changing. As the Tribune article says: The main layout of the plan has already been approved by the City of Tempe and will remain the same. But the developer has reinvented the design to showcase the lake...Architects will have the freedom to design unique buildings instead of having to prescribe to a template like many mix-used developments, he said. The goal is to avoid a prepackaged, antiseptic feel — instead creating a diverse look like one might see in Manhattan’s Soho district, Wolff said. What I gather from that is that the general layout of the buildings will be the same but the buildings themselves will be different from the current renderings we all know as of now. I think that Wolff really wants to focus on the waterfront which is a very good idea, imo.

I think some of the new concepts are really nice like the waterfront boardwalk and park. Also, I like the fact that the buildings will be designed to look different rather than all the same style like every other master planned mixed-use project there is. I think this is a positive direction for the project.

[BA744PHX]

Does anyone know whats going on with Le Meridien? There is no longer any information about the hotel on the their website and no indication of any future hotels.

[flyer84]

This article talks about the opening of the new Bridgeview Condo tower at Hayden Ferry Lakeside and it mentions that construction on a luxury hotel will start in May. I'm assuming this is Le Meridien since there are no other hotels planned for HFL.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/04/03/20080403tr-condos0404.html

[ciweiss]

I drove by the Northshore complex (Scottsdale & 202) and they have started on the Playa del Norte Lot 6 - Aloft Hotel & Office Building. It looks like the 1st floor is well underway.

I also found a Tempe.gov website that mentioned about a dozen other potential developments and one that caught my eye was called Hayden Square West which I am assuming is the Hayden Square parking lot. Any idea what they were looking to develop there? I was just curious what was proposed.

[ciweiss]

http://tempe.gov/comdev/WeeklyUpdate/18APR08.pdf

Theres more information on the South Bank Project (Pier 202) in the above weekly update. Seems they have changed the design a bit. Not sure if I like this one as well but the plan is not as detailed. They also have a building timeline.

[JimInCal]

.

[flyer84]

The South Bank website is up and running. Quite a few renderings and overall site plans. I really liked the original plan for Pier at Town Lake but I think the boardwalk concept is really neat too. Some of the buildings are a little too contemporary for me but for the most part I like how the buildings are different. It actually looks like a mini city by the lake!! well, a fake lake but its the best we can do in AZ. What are everyone else's thoughts on the changes from the original plans??

http://southbanktempe.com/

[Don B.]

^ Thanks for the link. I pulled out a couple of renderings from their website:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/New%20Phoenix%20projects/Southbank.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/New%20Phoenix%20projects/Southbank2.jpg

--don

[BA744PHX]

^ Thanks for the link. I pulled out a couple of renderings from their website:
--don


Now thats nice. lets hope it gets built

[combusean]

What the hell is "SoHo" about this? Have they been there? Silly developers.

This looks like a series of modern midrises amidst a mountainscape along a lake. That's Tempe, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Sonoran_Dweller]

I think it's in the wrong place. It is quite a distance from downtown Tempe. It is not going to be apart of the urban flow from the Mill Avenue District, it is just too isolated. Yes it is only about 1.5 miles from Mill avenue, but how may people are going to walk there, cars will still dominate. There is just no good connection with Tempe's center of commerce. This project is not very urban, except for the height / density, and does not create the city environment we all know should be the priority.

[combusean]

Sonoran, Suncor is working with ASU for a "bridge to bridge" design--eventually these will play into each other. I worry about the back-ends of these developments and Hayden Ferry Lakeside has an ugly approach to Rio Salado which I think wastes its second best asset.

[HooverDam]

^There will probably eventually be a trolly or rapid bus down Rio Salado (if theres not already, Tempe has a lot of stuff like this), so I think it'll be connected well enough. I'd love to see a trolley that connected that whole quad city area. Something that went from Scottsdale Rd-McDowell (Skysong), through Papago Park connecting the Zoo and DBH, to Phoenix Muni, over the lake to Tempe, then East down Rio Salado down to the future area of Waveyard/Mesa Riverview. Even an on wheels trolley like they have in Old Down Scottsdale would probably work.

[andrewkfromaz]

Yeah I'm sure there will be demand for shuttle buses like DASH or something at the very least so people don't have to drive the whole way from Mill to this area. A big caveat: free parking. Downtown has some parking, little of it free - will this area offer free, plentiful parking?

[exit2lef]

A big caveat: free parking. Downtown has some parking, little of it free - will this area offer free, plentiful parking?

It's likely that it will -- at least for tenants, maybe not for visitors. I recently heard one of the developers of Hayden Ferry Lakeside speak at a conference, and he said that at this point the market in Tempe still demanded parking at suburban levels despite access to public transit.

[wissundevil06]

Tower crane on Centerpoint condos came down this weekend. Anyone know where the next tower crane will go?

[bwonger06]

Lumina, Onyx, Mosaic?

I havent passed by Lumina in a while, is there anything new with the lot or still a wrapped lot.

And they are doing A LOT of digging at the pier 202 site, maybe there :shrug:

[ljbuild]

[QUOTE=flyer84;3498440]The South Bank website is up and running. Quite a few renderings and overall site plans. I really liked the original plan for Pier at Town Lake but I think the boardwalk concept is really neat too. Some of the buildings are a little too contemporary for me but for the most part I like how the buildings are different. It actually looks like a mini city by the lake!! well, a fake lake but its the best we can do in AZ. What are everyone else's thoughts on the changes from the original plans??


Actually I dont see that much difference, HOWEVER,

I Just wish that they do LESS CHANGING, & Start Building.

They can make all the "nice" changes they want, BUT until

they start BUILDING & or BREAKING GROUND those changes dont amount to

a grain of sand.

[tempedude]

Pier 202 (Now known as SouthBank)...next to ASU Karsten Golf Course (one of my old employers...I loved my time employed there :))

They have broken ground and a lot of earth is being moved there now. Was just by the site 2 or 3 days ago, saw much activity going on along with 2 or 3 construction trailers (offices) on site.

Much of it is still prep work, but finally something is moving along.

[HooverDam]

From: http://www.azcentral.com/community/tempe/articles/2008/04/21/20080421greenrail0421.html

Tempe transit center strives for top eco-friendly certification
13 comments by Kerry Fehr-Snyder - Apr. 21, 2008 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic
Green is one thing; gold is another. And platinum is in a class by itself.

As Earth Day approaches and the gravity of global warming sinks in, Tempe officials are working furiously to complete the state's first public/private building to apply for the gold standard in "green" building - platinum LEED certification.

The designation is short for Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design and is given to new or renovated buildings that are environmentally friendly.

The $24.5 million project is six years in the making and has fought an uphill battle. For years, officials balked that building environmentally sound facilities like the new Tempe Transportation Center at the base of A-Mountain on Fifth Street in downtown would be too expensive.

But the project's primary advocate, Bonnie Richardson, argues that upfront costs save taxpayers money and slow the environment's accelerating degradation.

"There was some skepticism about green buildings when we started," said Richardson, a principal planner for Tempe and a member of the local governing board of the U.S. Green Building Council.

Building backers hold the three-floor, 40,000-square-foot facility up as a model and demonstration project for other municipalities and private businesses.

They have documented the project's progress and pitfalls from its groundbreaking in 2001 to its inclusion on Valley's first green-building real-estate bus tour planned for Tuesday, Earth Day.

The Tempe Transportation Center will be featured on the bus tour in an effort to highlight the green-building conference next year.

Greenbuild 2009, the annual conference of the U.S. Green Building Council, is planned for next November at the Phoenix Convention Center. Up to 40,000 are expected to attend.

The Tempe Transportation Center will be tied to the Tempe-ASU light-rail station, on the northwestern corner of College Avenue and Veterans Way.

Center developers will apply for it to be certified as the first public/private platinum green building in the state. The only other platinum green buildings are at the state's universities. Two are at Arizona State University, one is at the University of Arizona and one is at Northern Arizona University.

The LEED rating system is based on four certification levels - certified, silver, gold and platinum, the highest classification. New buildings are judged in five design categories: sustainable sites, water efficiency, energy and atmosphere, materials and resources, and indoor environmental quality. The transportation center is designed to be ultra-energy efficient so that planners could apply for platinum LEED certification.

The building features a Sonoran Desert rooftop garden that will harvest rainwater and "gray water," recycled water that is safe for plants but not people. The garden is also designed to absorb sun that otherwise would heat up the building.

The second and third floors are set aside for offices, with the second floor to be occupied by city transportation workers and the third floor by leased tenants.

Both floors feature large balconies with retractable windows to allow breezes to cool the building when temperatures and weather conditions are nice.

Indoor cooling vents are built into the office floors to improve air quality. The eastern orientation of the building provides natural lighting, and panel-shade systems are designed to block sunlight. Recycled material was used throughout the building, and a separate gray-water system inside will recycle water from showers, sinks and drinking fountains to fill toilets. The toilets will have two flushing switches to accommodate the different amounts of water needed for disposal.

The center will also feature a unique two-tier, Murphy-bed-style indoor bike-storage area for light-rail passengers who bike to and from the station. Showers, restrooms and bike-repair services are also being built.

The first floor is where light-rail riders buy tickets and wait for light-rail trains, buses that will serve local and regional passengers, and free shuttles to connect ASU and neighborhoods to downtown Tempe.

An elevated community center will provide shade to riders and others who want to eat outside.

A grand opening for the facility is planned for September or October, with occupants moving in as early as June 6.

The center has been designed, Richardson said, to last much longer than modern-built facilities.

"We want to get beyond the idea that we build buildings for 20, 30 or 40 years," she said. "This has been designed to last 80 or 100 years and can be modified to meet changes in the future."

http://www.azcentral.com/i/sized/6/1/9/e298/j350/PHP480C252FC9146.jpg

I'm excited to see this thing when it gets finished, it sounds great.

Now if Phoenix would get some plans to do something similar with their central transit station I'd be a happy camper. I'd love to see the Phoenix station redeveloped to have an underground garage, and indoor as well as outdoor waiting area for buses, DASH and LRT as well as a future connector to Union Station/commuter rail (though I imagine this would be done via DASH). Perhaps it could be developed in conjunction w/ Central Park East phase 2. With the current ASU dorms almost certain to meet the wrecking ball in the near future and a shrimpy ASU parking garage adjacent, maybe this series of lots:
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9295/transitbz2.jpg
(red=area Im talking about, blue=OCPE)

could be developed into something like the Tower City Center in Cleveland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_City_Center). But I'll cut off my Phoenix dreamin' there since this is the Tempe thread.

[andrewkfromaz]

It's likely that it will -- at least for tenants, maybe not for visitors. I recently heard one of the developers of Hayden Ferry Lakeside speak at a conference, and he said that at this point the market in Tempe still demanded parking at suburban levels despite access to public transit.

That doesn't surprise me in the least, really. Most of the people coming to Tempe drive there. I think the greatest demand for a transit link between Mill and the Southbank area would be from residents of Mill and Southbank.

[PC2001]

Does anyone know what percent of the units are sold? Have they dropped prices yet?

[Tempe_Duck]

I noticed that the gas station on Broadway and Mill has been leveled as well as some of the other surrounding building. There currently are not any zoning signs up but they have to be doing something. Some of the buildings were occupied last week. Does any body know what is going on here?

[sundevilgrad]

I noticed that the gas station on Broadway and Mill has been leveled as well as some of the other surrounding building. There currently are not any zoning signs up but they have to be doing something. Some of the buildings were occupied last week. Does any body know what is going on here?

Somewhere, in the ancient depths of this thread, you can find a plan for a condo building that was proposed for that site. As far as I know, that's still the plan, but haven't seen/heard/read any updates in quite some time...

[bwonger06]

Anyone know any free parking in and around ASU? I do not mind walking to one of the Flash lines. Are the lots on 5th street and Ash free?

[exit2lef]

Anyone know any free parking in and around ASU? I do not mind walking to one of the Flash lines. Are the lots on 5th street and Ash free?

Most lots in DT Tempe allow one hour of free parking. There is a charge beyond that first hour. The only totally free parking options I know of are a few streets with parallel parking, no meters, and no resident permit requirements. 8th Street b/w Rural and Dorsey is an example, but keep in mind that most spaces along that stretch go pretty fast in the morning. A better option might be the free Valley Metro passes that ASU provides at no charge to students. Even if you don't live near a bus line that goes to ASU, you might be able to drive to a park-and-ride and board a bus there.

[Tempe Riser]

Does anyone know what percent of the units are sold? Have they dropped prices yet?

I could be wrong but I've heard they've sold somewhere between 25% and 30%.

[PhxSprawler]

http://www.mylasso.com/FileWarehouse/Users/User_629/Images/onyx.jpg

[CANUC]

If you got the West Stone website and click on the Onyx link you will see the first image. Its of a guy sitting on the edge of a pool staring passionately into the eyes of a hot chick as she swims up to his lap as he reaches to grab her behind her head to draw her closer to his lap so that she can s…oh sorry I forgot this is a public forum.

[PhxSprawler]

:previous: You obviously interpreted the marketing campaign correctly. :)

[combusean]

Anyone know any free parking in and around ASU? I do not mind walking to one of the Flash lines. Are the lots on 5th street and Ash free?

I'm not sure how useful this is given it's a bit of a hike from ASU and the flash lines, but Terrace Rd sandwiched between Cornerstone and the University Center is usually OK--parallel, non-metered parking.

I have never, ever, ever seen a towtruck at the University Center in 2 years here and it has acres of surface lots that are never full.

[PHXguyinOKC]

what's the word with the Monti's project?? Haven't heard anything in awhile.

[ciweiss]

^^^^
Good question PHXguy. Not much news on that one as of yet. It is interesting because it seems like a lot of places are just trying to gauge interest. Take for instance the Onyx building. I believe they have an open house or a presale or something this month. What is odd though is when I drive my bike next to Northshore it appears dead and the same development is thinking of building a 26 story building. Course maybe the Northshore people have not moved it yet. I believe it was just recently finished. I hope the Onyx place gets built. If you look at their website http://www.weststonecommunities.com/onyx/index.html
it looks like a cool design and has a lot of cool amenities.

There does seem to be some places that are selling. Here at Hayden Square I saw about 7-8 properties for sale a few months ago and now there are only a couple. New paint is making the place look better.

Aloft is on its second story. Their bulldozing at Southbank and dozing at Tempe Gateway. Alot of work next on Apache all over the place. That road is starting to look good from Mill onward. That religous school (forgot the name) has some cool big windows in the front. They are looking pretty good.

I saw the lightrail train roll by. Pretty cool though I hope it doesn't hold up traffic to much during the testing phase (or when it is in service).

[tempedude]

Does anyone have any idea of what is going on with the property directly west of the Tempe Center for the Arts (TCA)? The area between Rio Salado Blvd. and the Salt river, directly west of TCA, and all the way to Priest Dr. along the river has been fenced off. There appears to be a lot of grading and earth moving going on.

I have also noticed that there is some sort of activity going on with the Campus Edge site on Apache Blvd. There are all kinds of digging equipment on site, and quite a bit of digging and earth moving has begun. I had thought that this project was dead, or put on hold for a long time. I guess I was wrong. (Campus Edge - proposed loft style condos- is directly east/behind the Taco Bell on the corner of Rural Rd. and Apache Blvd.)

I added some renderings of Campus Edge for those who don't know or have forgotten about it..

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2393/2492659398_3d78cc3313_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2127/2492659496_a03e85963f_o.jpg

Courtesy of WEKNOWURBAN.COM:
http://www.weknowurban.com/highrise-loft-buildings/Tempe/Campus_Edge_Lofts.html#photos

[Sekkle]

Does anyone have any idea of what is going on with the property directly west of the Tempe Center for the Arts (TCA)? The area between Rio Salado Blvd. and the Salt river, directly west of TCA, and all the way to Priest Dr. along the river has been fenced off. There appears to be a lot of grading and earth moving going on.
I saw this PDF (http://www.tempe.gov/business/Development_Report/Tempe%20in%20Progress/Tempe%20in%20Progress%202008.pdf) on the City of Tempe website that shows that property as “Elements at TCA” for the portion closest to the Arts Center and Commercial/Hotel for the corner of Priest & Rio Salado. There’s also this page (http://www.tempe.gov/maps/DevProjectDetails.aspx?LocationID=c79d9e3c-a00c-432c-be4e-8330708b5342) that gives a vague description of the "elements"… Not much help I guess.

[SunDevil]

I saw this PDF (http://www.tempe.gov/business/Development_Report/Tempe%20in%20Progress/Tempe%20in%20Progress%202008.pdf) on the City of Tempe website that shows that property as “Elements at TCA” for the portion closest to the Arts Center and Commercial/Hotel for the corner of Priest & Rio Salado. There’s also this page (http://www.tempe.gov/maps/DevProjectDetails.aspx?LocationID=c79d9e3c-a00c-432c-be4e-8330708b5342) that gives a vague description of the "elements"… Not much help I guess.

I vaguely remember catching a program on community access where they were discussing what to do with the space described. The council seemed to like the idea of building an area for art galleries and related businesses (restaurants, and even some non-gallery office/commercial space).

[ciweiss]

^^^^^^
That would be cool to see some art galleries/shops etc in that area. That is one thing Tempe DT is missing is some galleries etc. It would be nice if they cleared out the Priest/Rio Salado corner as well & moved that stuff from the NE corner to a different area. That is starting to look like an eyesore with all the new buildings going in over there. An art scene would give people another excuse to walk/bike around the lake if there would be some galleries there - or a boardwalk type of scene.

I thought I read that on the Tempe development report they are going to put a Chipotle on Mill. 7th or 8th st maybe? Anyways - not a skyscraper but man I love that place. :) I was hoping they would put it in the newly vacated Quiznos spot.

They have a big crane at the Tempe Gateway location. Not the skyscraper crane but a mobile/tractor one.

[escodu05]

i was at a uli event last night that had some updates on the tempe development scene:

centerpoint has only sold 35 units.
onyx will break ground, but has not fared very well in presales.
hayden mill will be developed, but the silos are probably 10 years out.
the old long wongs site will be phased, but move forward (city gave out some serious tif money for this).
most of the other sites are on hold, or being removed from the development slate.

[HX_Guy]

Damn...only 35 units sold? How many total units do the two condo towers have? I imagine 300+?

[Vicelord John]

what is under construction across from the police station/court building?

looks like they started building a parking garage and then abandoned it.

[Sekkle]

I think that's where the new Marriot is going. Where Bandersnatch used to be...

[tempedude]

what is under construction across from the police station/court building?

looks like they started building a parking garage and then abandoned it.

That is where the new hotel is going...and the parking garage is moving along quickly....it didn't have that much built even 2 weeks ago. The hotel is the old Bandersnatch location and the parking garage is where a couple of old buildings were that were demolished....in fact i posted a couple of pictures of the garage getting under way just a few weeks ago...

[ciweiss]

Good news. The Tempe Gateway tower crane is up. :tup: :cheers: Hard to say how high it is from my angle but I would say around 12 stories. Its already moving around all over the place so it looks like they are putting it to good use.

[PC2001]

Damn...only 35 units sold? How many total units do the two condo towers have? I imagine 300+?

They told me 35% are sold. Not 35 units. They're not selling any units yet on the 2nd tower.

[wissundevil06]

Saw the tower crane go up today for the Tempe Gateway project. After one tower crane came down, it's nice to see another one go up.

[plinko]

Hah! I've got pictures!

Yesterday:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/Random/080513-0519PHOENIX096.jpg

Today:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/Random/080513-0519PHOENIX682.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/Random/080513-0519PHOENIX815.jpg

[plinko]

Having finally seen Centerpoint in person, I have to say that they have dynamically altered the East Valley landscape. And shoot me for saying so, but I don't think any other buildings that tall should be allowed in Tempe (I'm partial to 'A' Mountain).

Some Centerpoint and Tempe skyline shots for you guys...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/TEMPE-CENTERPOINT/080513-0519PHOENIX028.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/TEMPE-CENTERPOINT/080513-0519PHOENIX086.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/TEMPE-CENTERPOINT/080513-0519PHOENIX112.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/TEMPE-CENTERPOINT/080513-0519PHOENIX188.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/TEMPE-CENTERPOINT/080513-0519PHOENIX200.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/TEMPE-CENTERPOINT/080513-0519PHOENIX204.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/TEMPE-CENTERPOINT/080513-0519PHOENIX224.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/TEMPE-CENTERPOINT/080513-0519PHOENIX234.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/TEMPE-CENTERPOINT/080513-0519PHOENIX237.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/TEMPE-CENTERPOINT/080513-0519PHOENIX240.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/TEMPE-CENTERPOINT/080513-0519PHOENIX246.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/TEMPE-CENTERPOINT/080513-0519PHOENIX264.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/TEMPE-CENTERPOINT/080513-0519PHOENIX279.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/TEMPE-CENTERPOINT/080513-0519PHOENIX598.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/TEMPE-CENTERPOINT/080513-0519PHOENIX900.jpg

From Christown area!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/TEMPE-CENTERPOINT/080513-0519PHOENIX744.jpg

From downtown Phoenix
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/TEMPE-CENTERPOINT/080513-0519PHOENIX1057.jpg

[ciweiss]

Great pics Plinko - thanks. I especially like the b&w one.

[loftlovr]

Great pics as always Plinko!
Loved the Centerpoint update!
You're quite the A mountain hiker huh?

[andrewkfromaz]

Was it hot enough for ya?

[PC2001]

I dont think Centerpoint turnover will happen in June as planned. The shorter building doesn't look done at all. They must be out of funds if only 35% are reserved/sold. Maybe they should cut their prices some.

[mill]

Centerpoint, a high-rise residential and retail development in downtown Tempe, is seeking $50 million from a new source after its largest lender, Phoenix-based Mortgages Ltd. Securities, was unable to provide enough funding to complete the project by the end of the year.

The project was expected to be completed in winter 2008-09, but has run out of cash to continue construction at the pace necessary to meet that time frame.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2008/05/26/story6.html

According to the Phoenix Business Journal, 40 of 171 units are reserved in tower one. Zero units are reserved in tower two.

[HX_Guy]

Damn, that is crazy, I guess the 35 units sold we heard about recently was accurate.

This market and economy is sounding worse and worse by the day...it's going to be absolutely amazing if other big projects, namely Cityscape, are still able to move forward and build something (and by something I mean the residential part of the condo/hotel tower...I believe they will still build the office tower and retail).

[ciweiss]

I agree. I think commercial development will continue but I imagine residential will slow down. The prices will have to come down for people to pay 350-400K for a small studio/1 bedroom in this economy. Its to bad though because I love seeing these building going up. If this article is correct then I believe other projects such as Mosaic and Onyx will not happen. Or no time soon anyway. So what happens to tower two if you cannot even finish selling tower one? Turn them into rentals? Some of the wealthier ASU students could probably afford that. I see them driving their dads Hummers and BMW's. Of course if you bought in tower one would you want to see renters in tower two? probably not. Of course how would they cover the HOA? Of course if gas goes up to 5 - 6 dollers a gallon these downtown developments will still make more since then commuting from QC. Even with their high prices.

[SunDevil]

What I will never understand is the push to turn apartments into condos in Tempe. Students don't buy, very few might but that is rare. Students rent and there are some 30k to 40k students at ASU Tempe that don't live on campus. It's not as though these students are going to suddenly buy up condos, they will just move to an apartment building that is willing to take their money every month.

I had friends driven out of 2 apartment complexes because the owners wanted to turn them into condos, right there we are looking at something like 150 condos on the market and I'm sure these weren't the only conversions. It's no wonder that Centerpoint can't sell condos at that price when there are cheaper condos already open just a short bus ride (maybe even the free shuttle, Orbit) from light rail, asu, and mill ave. In fact it's any wonder that any place is able to sell condos in Tempe.

I'm probably wrong about that last line and some one will prove it, it's just my observation from when I lived there a year ago.

[PC2001]

I knew it!They're lacking funding awright. My next prediction is that they will go onsale. Uh-oh, here comes the condo vultures.

[ciweiss]

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/117080


Economy shakes out Tempe development projects
Comments 2| Recommend 0
Garin Groff, Tribune
Two years after one big condo tower got the green light in Tempe, the site remains a fenced-off dirt lot. Just down University Drive from that site, a larger cluster of towers has yet to rise more than a year after the city signed off on that ritzy development.

Yet developers opened the sales office Thursday on a 26-story lakefront condo tower they plan to start building this summer.

Click to see the status on some of the major projects in Tempe

And builders are all but falling over themselves to construct hotels on the lake and downtown.

The mix of stalled projects and bullish approaches to other developments in Tempe has left city officials and builders struggling to grasp just how the volatile economy is affecting the community.

The consensus is some of the planned luxury condo towers won't sell in today's economy and will have to wait years for demand to rebound. But the demand for office space, hotel rooms and certain condos is strong enough to still draw massive investment to the community.

Tempe Mayor Hugh Hallman, who holds an economics degree, expressed exasperation at the idea that some delays could jeopardize the larger vision for a denser, more cosmopolitan community.

"The real story is: My God! - people are still investing hundreds of millions of dollars in Tempe," Hallman said.

Builders would have backed out long ago if they didn't have confidence, he said.

Some city-approved projects won't ever happen, Hallman acknowledged, but only because some "bottom-feeders" structured unrealistic transactions that unfairly tarnish the reputation of other projects.

"The silly deals are going to shake out," Hallman said.

City officials and developers will only privately speculate at what deals they consider silly or realistic. But they say some condo projects will have to wait to break ground.

"You can't sugarcoat it," said Chris Salamone, Tempe's community development manager. "We're in for a rough year, but I think Tempe will rebound sooner than others."

One of the earliest plans to get approval but not rise from the ground is Mosaic, a condo tower with a Whole Foods slated for University Drive and Ash Avenue.

The construction permit was about to expire two years after it won approval, but the city granted a one-year extension recently.

The developer hopes to begin work soon, zoning attorney Charles Huellmantel said, adding the city needs to review more building plans before construction can begin. Various city officials have considered that project solid despite delays.

Work on one of Tempe's grandest projects is far enough away that Tempe will pave the site this summer to provide temporary parking. The University Square project won approval in 2006 for three towers of condos, hotels and offices, but the developer will let the city park cars there until it makes a go of it. A representative for the project did not return a call for comment.

Developers are revamping some major projects. The developer of an Apache Boulevard project called Campus Edge has delayed construction while converting it to apartments for college students. The building will move ahead despite economic woes, said Chris Anaradian, Tempe's development services manager.

"By no means are we having people withdraw their interest from Tempe," he said.

Some developers deny the economy has triggered any significant delays. But some acknowledge financial considerations.

The Lumina Tempe condo and hotel project was supposed to begin early this year but will wait until fall or winter. The later start should mean new condos will go up for sale by the time demand improves, said Brian Sciutto, a sales director.

"It puts us out farther in the correction of the market," he said.

About 25 percent of 245 condos are sold, and owner Constellation Property Group doesn't see the need to lower prices in the two-tower project, Sciutto said.

Two major condo projects are open now or about to open, Bridgeview and Centerpoint Condominiums.

Bridgeview at Hayden Ferry Lakeside opened in February and still needs to sell 56 of 104 condos. That's below expectations, said sales manager Bob Normile, who added that only 10 units would remain now in a normal economy.

Several forces have collided at once and hurt the condo market, said Randy Levin, the project manager for Hayden Ferry Lakeside. The credit crisis has left some buyers unable to get loans. Others can't sell their existing homes. And the supply of condos has surged past demand.

"What's going on now is kind of a cleansing process," Levin said. "You have to ask yourself, were there really too many condos that were put on the board here? Was that too much all at one time?"

Levin doesn't see any fatal flaws in other condo projects and figures buyers will pay to live in Tempe, even if it takes longer than bullish developers had expected.

Woes in the condo market delayed a hotel/condo project at Hayden Ferry Lakeside. A Le Meridien hotel with some condos was supposed to open by year's end but hasn't broken ground.

Lenders demanded a hotel-only project, Levin said, which forced a new design. A new plan and new hotel operator will come forth in a few weeks and construction should start soon, he said.

Meanwhile, Levin said "insatiable" demand helped lease out all but half of one story of a 12-story office tower that opened in February at Hayden Ferry Lakeside. Centerpoint Condominiums is set to open one tower in July and another by year's end. About 25 percent of the first tower is sold, said Ken Losch, a principal in Avenue Communities.

Sales are increasing, he said, and will boom in a few months once visitors can see city lights from the top of the tower and experience upscale restaurants that will open this fall.

Losch figures the economy has bottomed out and said buyers must see a few months of improvement to feel confident.

"People need to see a little bit of that bottom in the rear view mirror," he said.

At least one developer expects to start work in a sluggish economy in the hope of opening when the condo market improves.

Onyx Tempe expects to start building a 26-story tower on Tempe Town Lake in four months. It opened a sales center Thursday and has pre-sales on 25 percent of units, said Patrick Tice, vice president of sales. The developer has been raising prices, he said, because it counts on a strong market when the tower is done in 30 months.

"We're going full speed ahead," Tice said.

[ciweiss]

SunDevil - You are correct. I think there might be a few parents that can drop 300K on a condo but not many. Where as a converted condo for 150K would attract a few more. But once again I don't think there would be to many student/parent buyers. I think all those apartments should stay apartments. Why convert in this market. As far as Centerpoint condo I think those will sell but it will take time and perhaps some slight price correction. At least from the EVT article it sounds like Mosaic and Onyx are not dead which is good news. I am glad that those projects still might happen. DT Tempe is in desperate need of a nearby grocery store. The Mosaic woud provide that. There is nothing nearby at all.

[tempedude]

Good to hear that Onyx Tower may possibly begin construction in 4 months. I have had a feeling all along that this thing was going to move forward. Its in a super prime location.

Talking about apartment to condo conversions, I have noticed that some of the complexes that went condo have already converted back to "luxury" apartment rentals. (A particular complex on Broadway comes to mind right away.) They should have stayed as rentals anyway...the whole condo craze got way out of control in Tempe IMHO. It is/was a prime example of supply exceeding demand.

[SunDevil]

Good to hear that Onyx Tower may possibly begin construction in 4 months. I have had a feeling all along that this thing was going to move forward. Its in a super prime location.

Talking about apartment to condo conversions, I have noticed that some of the complexes that went condo have already converted back to "luxury" apartment rentals. (A particular complex on Broadway comes to mind right away.) They should have stayed as rentals anyway...the whole condo craze got way out of control in Tempe IMHO. It is/was a prime example of supply exceeding demand.

that's good to hear. btw, the apt to condo to apt your talking about on Broadway, is it Villa Real? that was one of the complexes that one of my friends was effectively kicked out of due to a conversion.

[tempedude]

btw, the apt to condo to apt your talking about on Broadway, is it Villa Real? that was one of the complexes that one of my friends was effectively kicked out of due to a conversion.

Yes. The name sure sounds right, I am 99.9% positive. There are so many complexes in Tempe that keeping track of the names gets confusing at times as you know.

[ciweiss]

You know the more I think about it why doesn't Centerpoint just make a hotel out of Tower 2 until the market bounces back. The reason I say this is the area needs hotel room/conference space and Avenue communites was already going to put a hotel in their anyways - after they bulldoze the theater. This way they can make money with the hotel and once housing bounces back they can just build tower 3 and/or 4 as condos again or convert tower 2 back into a hotel. Or something else entirely. I still think they need more entertainment DT Tempe. I went to Tempe Marketplace and that place is hoping. You have to park pretty deep over there on the weekend. Yes the people in tower 1 would not be happy but at least their HOA would not skyrocket because tower 2 was empty. And hotel guests may be better neighbors then college kids with parties. Course I live in Hayden Square it and it is awesome to roll out to the pool and seeing the ASU girls lounging around in their skimpy bikinis :tup: :cheers: Besides there is demand right now for hotel space and they can fullfill that right now.

One last soapbox topic. Any of you guys been up to Portland Oregon. You can can roll into one of the McMenamins bar/theators and grab a beer and a burger and catch a cult classic like StarWars. You pay a doller or two to get in and drink beer and enjoy a movie. This area so needs something like that. OK, I'm jumping off my soapbox.




http://www.mcmenamins.com/

[HooverDam]

One last soapbox topic. Any of you guys been up to Portland Oregon. You can can roll into one of the McMenamins bar/theators and grab a beer and a burger and catch a cult classic like StarWars. You pay a doller or two to get in and drink beer and enjoy a movie. This area so needs something like that. OK, I'm jumping off my soapbox.

http://www.mcmenamins.com/

When I was in college in StL, they had a great place like this called the Moolah. Its was a beautifal old Shrine auditorium, it also had a bowling alley!

http://www.stlouiscinemas.com/moolah/

http://www.frontdoorstl.com/images/buildings/moolah-LEAD.jpg

I'd kill for something like that in Phoenix. I'd built it if I won the lottery. I wish I could sit Dan Harkins down and convince him to quit (or at least don't do it exclusively) building suburban, boring theaters in places like the Tempe Marketplace, and build more unique stuff.

With the Fox and Cine Capri both gone, Phoenix desperately needs a movie palace. The new Cine Capri out at Scottsdale 101 (and I assume the one in Tempe, though I havent been) is nice, but heartless. The big screen, sound, et cetera is nice, but otherwise it feels like any other megaplex.

[ciweiss]

^^^
That is cool Hooverdam. I will have to check it out if I am ever in the area. A place like that would fit well in DT Tempe, Old town Scottsdale etc. Your right - the cookie cutter strip malls gotta go. These strip mall architects could not find character or something unique if it bit them in the @ss.

I too would build (or retrofit a preexisting building) my own if I had the coin to do so. It would be a huge hit for the 20-50 year old crowd. And no Snottsdale dinner theator tuxedo crowd. I'm talking jeans/tshirt /Microbeer (eg. 4 peaks) /wings/pizza etc.

I will put forth the suggestion to Dan Harkins if I can find an address for him and perhaps the good people at 4 Peaks. That would be a good combo right there. Let Dan handle the movies and 4 Peaks handle the beer. Heck - they could even just roll the kegs over .:cheers:

[Sekkle]

There used to be a theater on Ray & Kyrene in Chandler/Tempe that sold beer & wine and showed indie-type films. I guess it didn't do too well, though, because it closed probably a year after it opened (2004-2005ish I think). But yeah, those McMenamins places are cool. There are several others in the Portland area, too (i.e. not owned by McMenamins). Some have older movies, cult classics, etc and others have movies that are in between theater and video/dvd - like a couple months old.

[HX_Guy]

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/117080

Economy shakes out Tempe development projects
By Garin Groff
May 24, 2008
Tribune

GOING UP: The Centerpointe Condominiums are set to open one tower in July and another by year's end. About 25 percent of the first tower is sold.

Two years after one big condo tower got the green light in Tempe, the site remains a fenced-off dirt lot. Just down University Drive from that site, a larger cluster of towers has yet to rise more than a year after the city signed off on that ritzy development.

Yet developers opened the sales office Thursday on a 26-story lakefront condo tower they plan to start building this summer.

And builders are all but falling over themselves to construct hotels on the lake and downtown.

The mix of stalled projects and bullish approaches to other developments in Tempe has left city officials and builders struggling to grasp just how the volatile economy is affecting the community.

The consensus is some of the planned luxury condo towers won't sell in today's economy and will have to wait years for demand to rebound. But the demand for office space, hotel rooms and certain condos is strong enough to still draw massive investment to the community.

Tempe Mayor Hugh Hallman, who holds an economics degree, expressed exasperation at the idea that some delays could jeopardize the larger vision for a denser, more cosmopolitan community.

"The real story is: My God! - people are still investing hundreds of millions of dollars in Tempe," Hallman said.

Builders would have backed out long ago if they didn't have confidence, he said.

Some city-approved projects won't ever happen, Hallman acknowledged, but only because some "bottom-feeders" structured unrealistic transactions that unfairly tarnish the reputation of other projects.

"The silly deals are going to shake out," Hallman said.

City officials and developers will only privately speculate at what deals they consider silly or realistic. But they say some condo projects will have to wait to break ground.

"You can't sugarcoat it," said Chris Salamone, Tempe's community development manager. "We're in for a rough year, but I think Tempe will rebound sooner than others."

One of the earliest plans to get approval but not rise from the ground is Mosaic, a condo tower with a Whole Foods slated for University Drive and Ash Avenue.

The construction permit was about to expire two years after it won approval, but the city granted a one-year extension recently.

The developer hopes to begin work soon, zoning attorney Charles Huellmantel said, adding the city needs to review more building plans before construction can begin. Various city officials have considered that project solid despite delays.

Work on one of Tempe's grandest projects is far enough away that Tempe will pave the site this summer to provide temporary parking. The University Square project won approval in 2006 for three towers of condos, hotels and offices, but the developer will let the city park cars there until it makes a go of it. A representative for the project did not return a call for comment.

Developers are revamping some major projects. The developer of an Apache Boulevard project called Campus Edge has delayed construction while converting it to apartments for college students. The building will move ahead despite economic woes, said Chris Anaradian, Tempe's development services manager.

"By no means are we having people withdraw their interest from Tempe," he said.

Some developers deny the economy has triggered any significant delays. But some acknowledge financial considerations.

The Lumina Tempe condo and hotel project was supposed to begin early this year but will wait until fall or winter. The later start should mean new condos will go up for sale by the time demand improves, said Brian Sciutto, a sales director.

"It puts us out farther in the correction of the market," he said.

About 25 percent of 245 condos are sold, and owner Constellation Property Group doesn't see the need to lower prices in the two-tower project, Sciutto said.

Two major condo projects are open now or about to open, Bridgeview and Centerpoint Condominiums.

Bridgeview at Hayden Ferry Lakeside opened in February and still needs to sell 56 of 104 condos. That's below expectations, said sales manager Bob Normile, who added that only 10 units would remain now in a normal economy.

Several forces have collided at once and hurt the condo market, said Randy Levin, the project manager for Hayden Ferry Lakeside. The credit crisis has left some buyers unable to get loans. Others can't sell their existing homes. And the supply of condos has surged past demand.

"What's going on now is kind of a cleansing process," Levin said. "You have to ask yourself, were there really too many condos that were put on the board here? Was that too much all at one time?"

Levin doesn't see any fatal flaws in other condo projects and figures buyers will pay to live in Tempe, even if it takes longer than bullish developers had expected.

Woes in the condo market delayed a hotel/condo project at Hayden Ferry Lakeside. A Le Meridien hotel with some condos was supposed to open by year's end but hasn't broken ground.

Lenders demanded a hotel-only project, Levin said, which forced a new design. A new plan and new hotel operator will come forth in a few weeks and construction should start soon, he said.

Meanwhile, Levin said "insatiable" demand helped lease out all but half of one story of a 12-story office tower that opened in February at Hayden Ferry Lakeside. Centerpoint Condominiums is set to open one tower in July and another by year's end. About 25 percent of the first tower is sold, said Ken Losch, a principal in Avenue Communities.

Sales are increasing, he said, and will boom in a few months once visitors can see city lights from the top of the tower and experience upscale restaurants that will open this fall.

Losch figures the economy has bottomed out and said buyers must see a few months of improvement to feel confident.

"People need to see a little bit of that bottom in the rear view mirror," he said.

At least one developer expects to start work in a sluggish economy in the hope of opening when the condo market improves.

Onyx Tempe expects to start building a 26-story tower on Tempe Town Lake in four months. It opened a sales center Thursday and has pre-sales on 25 percent of units, said Patrick Tice, vice president of sales. The developer has been raising prices, he said, because it counts on a strong market when the tower is done in 30 months.

"We're going full speed ahead," Tice said.




Click to see the status on some of the major projects in Tempe
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/page/image?filename=images/photos/2008/05/24/84wv3x7q.gif

[HX_Guy]

What is the tower crane for in this webcam image?

http://63.134.198.162/Transitimage.asp

[tempedude]

What is the tower crane for in this webcam image?

http://63.134.198.162/Transitimage.asp

For whatever reason, I can't see the webcam image you are talking about. My guess though...is if it is along Mill Ave. or in the downtown Tempe area...the tower crane would be for the Tempe Gateway project next to US Airways. The tower went up just around a week to two weeks ago.

Edit: Is this the crane you are talking about? If so, thats the one for Tempe Gateway... See crane in photo in background, beyond the transit center.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3157/2527964857_cab48dc9e0_o.jpg

[HX_Guy]

Yea that's it.

What are the specs on the Tempe Gateway project?

[tempedude]

^^^I am not really sure what all the fine details are about the project. I don't think the tower is going to be excetionally tall...maybe 10+ floors, and office and retail space.

Here is a link to what I know about it. maybe someone else knows more, or can get additional details.

http://www.tempe.gov/Maps/DevProjectDetails.aspx?LocationID=5667bbef-9350-4295-84fe-b8eead70964b

[sundevilgrad]

Just an FYI... One of the main reasons that no condos are selling, even at er price points, is that 2 or 3 of the nation's largest mortgage insurers won't insure mortgages of condos in distressed markets. I'm pretty sure that anyway you slice it, the Valley fits the bill of a distressed market.

Expect many of these projects to go offline. Whether they're offices or hotels or condos (are you freaking insane?). The commercial real estate market typically lags the residential market by about 2 years. If that assumption holds true, and all signs are pointing to yes, it's about summer 2006 in commercial construction sector. Look out below! A lot of these developers will go bankrupt and we'll probably see some unfinished projects sitting around for a couple of years.

The real time-bombs in the economy haven't even gone off yet. Alt-A/prime loans and Commercial loans will make the subprime fiasco and credit crunch feel like walks in the park.