Tempe Development Thread

[azsunsurfer]

So does this mean then that the Villas at Tempe Town Lake is dead? ASU was planning a "partnership" with that development and now it sounds like this is the same concept just on campus. I doubt Tempe could support the feasibility both developments...

[muertecaza]

It's Papago

Article re: SAP moving into Grand at Papago and groundbreaking:

http://azbigmedia.com/azre-magazine/lincoln-breaks-ground-250k-sf-offices

[CrestedSaguaro]

First look of the new hydraulic damn holding back water...and no rubber damn! :)

https://imgur.com/RgnxNsj.jpg

[muertecaza]

Sign is up and the fence is down on the AC Marriott.

http://i.imgur.com/gTJtmClh.jpg

[CrestedSaguaro]

^^^
I walked by the AC Marriott last night and I was pretty bummed that all the utility boxes were placed between the hotel and Rio Salado. This cuts out the possibility of any retail of ever being added in front of AC Marriott (they have the room) and creates an eyesore. Why wasn't the utility boxes placed on a more auspicious location...like behind the East wall? :shrug:

[phoenixwillrise]

^^^
I walked by the AC Marriott last night and I was pretty bummed that all the utility boxes were placed between the hotel and Rio Salado. This cuts out the possibility of any retail of ever being added in front of AC Marriott (they have the room) and creates an eyesore. Why wasn't the utility boxes placed on a more auspicious location...like behind the East wall? :shrug:

Why do you need retail in a upscale business hotel? Also they are not landscaping etc. yet. Can we let this play out first before we start complaining about electrical boxes? I would like to add that the The Hayden Ferry Project looks like it is now complete and is a fantastic looking project. One of few multi building projects that is actually proposed and then followed through to buildout. First class job and unique architecture. A job well done. Office, condo's, hotel and solid looking parking garage. What could someone possibly complain about?

[CrestedSaguaro]

Why do you need retail in a upscale business hotel? Also they are not landscaping etc. yet. Can we let this play out first before we start complaining about electrical boxes? I would like to add that the The Hayden Ferry Project looks like it is now complete and is a fantastic looking project. One of few multi building projects that is actually proposed and then followed through to buildout. First class job and unique architecture. A job well done. Office, condo's, hotel and solid looking parking garage. What could someone possibly complain about?

You're taking my post way out of context. I never complained about anything about the hotel, State Farm, Hayden Ferry...anything except some electricle boxes that stick out like a sore thumb. From what I can see, the landscaping in front of the AC Marriott is pretty much done. I don't see them putting a wall or something to cover them up and I thought it just would have been nice to find a better spot to hide them from a pedestrian point of view.

When I said "retail", I'm just suggesting to maybe a nice cafe or coffe shop, not a Nike outlet. I have never made any complaints since joining the Phoenix forums about lack of retail or anything negative about the developments. I make one observation which during my walk from Rural to Mill just stuck out a bit odd to me and you slam my opinion. :haha:

Sorry. It was a very bland walk outside of an architectural standpoint and I just felt there could be a nice eatery along Rio Salado in there somewhere.

[azsunsurfer]

Ronnie...just have a picnic next to the electrical boxes. Rio Salado activated! Problem solved LOL

[muertecaza]

You're taking my post way out of context. I never complained about anything about the hotel, State Farm, Hayden Ferry...anything except some electricle boxes that stick out like a sore thumb. From what I can see, the landscaping in front of the AC Marriott is pretty much done. I don't see them putting a wall or something to cover them up and I thought it just would have been nice to find a better spot to hide them from a pedestrian point of view.

When I said "retail", I'm just suggesting to maybe a nice restaurant or coffe shop. Not a Nike outlet. I have never made any complaints since joining the Phoenix forums about lack of retail or anything negative about the developments. I make one observation which during my walk from Rural to Mill just stuck out a bit odd to me and you slam my post. :tup:

Sorry. It was a very bland walk outside of an architectural standpoint and I just feel there could be an eatery along the walk in there somewhere.

I've noticed that the powers that be in Tempe, for better or worse, tend not to consider Rio Salado a pedestrian street. None of the developments, either East or west of Mill, really have activity right on the street.

Should be better, however when the Matt's and Starbucks open in Marina Heights, and if/when the last piece of Hayden Ferry (West of the parking garage, which I believe was originally slated for restaurant space) is built out.

Overall, I'm with you, not really complaining, because it is a great project, but it would have been interesting, for instance, if the retail at Hayden Ferry would have faced Rio Salado, instead of facing inward on the back side of the garage.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Ronnie...just have a picnic next to the electrical boxes. Rio Salado activated! Problem solved LOL

They're about the right height to be makeshift picnic tables! :cheers:

[kaneui]

Sign is up and the fence is down on the AC Marriott.

http://i.imgur.com/gTJtmClh.jpg

I certainly hope Tucson's AC doesn't end up looking as bland as this one.

[Obadno]

I've noticed that the powers that be in Tempe, for better or worse, tend not to consider Rio Salado a pedestrian street. None of the developments, either East or west of Mill, really have activity right on the street.

Should be better, however when the Matt's and Starbucks open in Marina Heights, and if/when the last piece of Hayden Ferry (West of the parking garage, which I believe was originally slated for restaurant space) is built out.

Overall, I'm with you, not really complaining, because it is a great project, but it would have been interesting, for instance, if the retail at Hayden Ferry would have faced Rio Salado, instead of facing inward on the back side of the garage.

Surprisingly Marina heights does have its main Lobby and Entrance off Rio but its not a very inviting street in general, wide, isolated, and nothing but parking lots and stadiums for a long way.

However the internal Marina heights road is nicely pedestrian especially once the restaurants and gym are filled and it connects with the Lake Promenade, the entire lakefront will be quite walk able and pedestrian oriented, think of Rio as the back accesses.

[Obadno]

I certainly hope Tucson's AC doesn't end up looking as bland as this one.

It is bland but it fits well in the ultra modern lakefront developments. It is a business center with a handful of upscale condos. It does not need to stand out.

the walk able area is just a block or two away along mill.

[dtnphx]

I kind of like it too, actually.

[azsunsurfer]

Most of Downtown Tucson's (recent) housing product is much more bland than this hotel....

[ASUSunDevil]

I certainly hope Tucson's AC doesn't end up looking as bland as this one.

It looks great in person, especially the panels on the left that are shaded in the picture. I haven't seen the electrical boxes you guys were talking about... It looks exactly like the rendering:

http://azbex.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/PD-AC-Tempe.jpg

[muertecaza]

Karsten golf course site the "frontrunner" for new Coyotes stadium (http://m.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2016/04/14/asu-tempe-site-temporary-phoenix-home-could-be.html)

[Obadno]

Had some time to kill this morning before going to work,

Just took a drive around Tempe. When you really take a look at ALL that has been going on (not just in Tempe but all over the valley) the amount of development is really astonishing. All through the neighborhood between Hardy and Farmer there are tons of smaller townhome and apartment developments as well as several lots and older homes that appear to have zoning hearings upcoming or work going on.:cheers:

Where are all these people coming from?? We don't have enough jobs and population to justify all this development do we?

[CrestedSaguaro]

Had some time to kill this morning before going to work,

Just took a drive around Tempe. When you really take a look at ALL that has been going on (not just in Tempe but all over the valley) the amount of development is really astonishing. All through the neighborhood between Hardy and Farmer there are tons of smaller townhome and apartment developments as well as several lots and older homes that appear to have zoning hearings upcoming or work going on.:cheers:

Where are all these people coming from?? We don't have enough jobs and population to justify all this development do we?

With my job, I get to see all these little developments EVERYWHERE around the valley. It's crazy, isn't it???

As for as the population Maricopa County added like 88,000 residents in 2015. I think the urban part of the metro is getting like 65% of that growth or about roughly 57,000 if I remember correctly. As far as I know, the growth is remaining steady so far this year. Population forcasts are saying Phoenix will continue this growth rate with nearly a 0% chance of a recession in the near-term future.

I think this would be enough to fill all these units getting built?

[Obadno]

With my job, I get to see all these little developments EVERYWHERE around the valley. It's crazy, isn't it???

As for as the population Maricopa County added like 88,000 residents in 2015. I think the urban part of the metro is getting like 65% of that growth or about roughly 57,000 if I remember correctly. As far as I know, the growth is remaining steady so far this year. Population forcasts are saying Phoenix will continue this growth rate with nearly a 0% chance of a recession in the near-term future.

I think this would be enough to fill all these units getting built?

No Idea, I'm 26 and several of my peers have started to have children... ON PURPOSE (oh the horror) if that isn't a sign of good economics IDK what is!

[muertecaza]

Demo work appears to be in full swing at the Fore McClintock site (Apache/McClintock).

[azsunsurfer]

Was that the Pony Acres site?

[muertecaza]

Was that the Pony Acres site?

Yes, Pony Acres and the one between Pony Acres and Tempe Metro, Tempe Travel Trailer Park.

[dtnphx]

Was that the Pony Acres site?

Pony Acres. Acres and acres of Ponies. That would be awesome.

[ASUSunDevil]

Demo work appears to be in full swing at the Fore McClintock site (Apache/McClintock).

Hadn't realized that Ayers Saint Gross is the architect. They do really great work (UA Biomedical Sciences Building, Roosevelt Point etc.), it should end up being a great project:

http://azbex.com/new-tempe-apartments-on-light-rail-to-replace-mobile-home-park/

http://asg-architects.com/portfolio-categories/architecture/

[azsunsurfer]

I need a break from the PHX forums....anyway I noticed yesterday they are going vertical on the second hotel east of TMP. Looks like they are already on the 2nd floor with the elevator shaft growing as well.

[Urbannizer]

The Foundry (http://hpaurban.com/portfolio-item/the-foundry/)

http://hpaurban.com/wp-content/uploads/bfi_thumb/Humphreys-Partners-Urban-Architecture-The-Foundry-mpntxp6wuaurlja4e1wwhiiwkxbhhz9kk4oc8agmio.jpg

[muertecaza]

I need a break from the PHX forums....anyway I noticed yesterday they are going vertical on the second hotel east of TMP. Looks like they are already on the 2nd floor with the elevator shaft growing as well.

I think that one is actually office, but yeah, they aren't wasting any time.

[muertecaza]

The Foundry (http://hpaurban.com/portfolio-item/the-foundry/)

http://hpaurban.com/wp-content/uploads/bfi_thumb/Humphreys-Partners-Urban-Architecture-The-Foundry-mpntxp6wuaurlja4e1wwhiiwkxbhhz9kk4oc8agmio.jpg

Thanks for the good quality render. Between this, Standard, Farmer Arts, and Hanover, there could be some great residential density building up in this area.

[muertecaza]

The Standard (http://hpaurban.com/portfolio-item/the-standard-at-tempe/)

http://i.imgur.com/tS7NCELh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mS0CcBUh.jpg

Makes the inability to get a deal done on the other two parcels even more sad.

[Spitfiredude]

I like how this is setting up. Seems like we're getting more of the professional/higher age housing west of Mill and along the lake (besides the parcels west/south of IN-N-OUT. The student housing is situated east of Mill. I think this is ideal for downtown Tempe. Its really hard to integrate student housing with professionals / older aged people. The Foundry / Standard both look awesome.

[Obadno]

The Standard (http://hpaurban.com/portfolio-item/the-standard-at-tempe/)

http://i.imgur.com/tS7NCELh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mS0CcBUh.jpg

Makes the inability to get a deal done on the other two parcels even more sad.

Is this student housing?

[azsunsurfer]

I think that one is actually office, but yeah, they aren't wasting any time.

No its not....it's south of the existing hotel which I believe is where it was located on the site plan. Plus I know no modern office building being built out of wood frame construction...

[Obadno]

No its not....it's south of the existing hotel which I believe is where it was located on the site plan. Plus I know no modern office building being built out of wood frame construction...

Yeah it's the two hotels that were planned for the project, I don't think any of the office buildings have been planned, or had a completed design like Papago, discovery, and ASU research park they probably will wait for tenants before building.

http://www.tempe.gov/Home/ShowDocument?id=29221

^ Generic as hell but for that location its better than a gravel pit. I hope they maybe add an Apartment aspect or maybe some bigger offices but whatever not really a major concern to me what goes on at that parcel.

[dtnphx]

Both those buildings will be awesome additions. Can someone please tell me where they are going specifically and have they both started construction?

[muertecaza]

No its not....it's south of the existing hotel which I believe is where it was located on the site plan. Plus I know no modern office building being built out of wood frame construction...

My bad.

[Obadno]

Both those buildings will be awesome additions. Can someone please tell me where they are going specifically and have they both started construction?

The big one is going next to the Jack-in-Box across from he brickyard on (7th???:shrug:) between Mill and Forest,

The Short one with the whole foods is on University on the empty lot between Ash and the Train tracks.

[dtnphx]

The big one is going next to the Jack-in-Box across from he brickyard on (7th???:shrug:) between Mill and Forest,

The Short one with the whole foods is on University on the empty lot between Ash and the Train tracks.

Thanks.

[Obadno]

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2016/04/21/developer-nixes-plans-for-13-story-apartment.html

Tempe and the greater Phoenix area are NOT developed enough to have NIMBY's like this.:hell:

what a shame

[PHXFlyer11]

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2016/04/21/developer-nixes-plans-for-13-story-apartment.html

This is terrible. So basically Tempe has resigned itself to only go vertical between the Lake, Ash, University and Rural. Feels like all the progress they were making is really taking a step back. Who cares about those shit apartments and houses across the street. Those people should be happy to see their land values rise. I guess they are all renters and are concerned more about their rents going up. This was a great project. Big loss with Crescent and now this. Get your shit together Tempe.

[PHXFlyer11]

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2016/04/21/developer-nixes-plans-for-13-story-apartment.html

Tempe and the greater Phoenix area are NOT developed enough to have NIMBY's like this.:hell:

what a shame

Haha, we posted at the same time, same sentiments.

[Obadno]

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2016/04/21/developer-nixes-plans-for-13-story-apartment.html

This is terrible. So basically Tempe has resigned itself to only go vertical between the Lake, Ash, University and Rural. Feels like all the progress they were making is really taking a step back. Who cares about those shit apartments and houses across the street. Those people should be happy to see their land values rise. I guess they are all renters and are concerned more about their rents going up. This was a great project. Big loss with Crescent and now this. Get your shit together Tempe.

I don't mind community input but you need to balance it out. Just because some backwards thinking assholes who live near farmer "doesn't like" traffic or some bullshit is not reason to derail a multi million dollar project.

Not all concerns are valid, really only if there is a reasonable complaint with the project should the community have any say at all.

[Jjs5056]

The lack of foresight by this council is infuriating. Slowly, every single investment aside from the lake is losing value. Why bother with LRT, streetcar, etc. if you don't allow for the intensity of uses needed to sustain TOD?

The residents made not one single valid argument over the project against logical lists of benefits presented by supporters. An infusion of market rate apartments, retail connecting Mill > Farmer, and the planned office/garage would have nearly completed this development tract and created a distinct urban area beyond Mill. Now, the developer has no immediate plans for the land and I don't blame him. Crescent Rio was denied even though the council decided 1st St should be a mixed-use midrise area?

The Foundry is exactly why Farmer Arts was needed. Developments like this and Hanover on lots that were intended for up to 25+ stories keep pushing the potential growth in downtown permanent residents lower and lower. A 13-story on Farmer could have helped make up for those lost densities. Beyond its height being underwhelming, the Whole Foods rendering is exactly why Fry's will be a design fail for Block 23. As a future streetcar stop, there should be more than just blank Whole Foods walls for 90% of the frontage. Shallow retail bays should have been added.

I am not confident that The Standard will get built. The missing Mill frontage and lack of retail space is unfortunate, but overall, this is the type of project needed instead of religious dorms, 5-story single-use apartments, and parking lots.

P.S. The neighborhood plans to fight against The Foundry. They are clearly against any and all development. Most argue that they can't afford WF - um, sorry, you don't dictate the market assholes.

[PHXFlyer11]

The lack of foresight by this council is infuriating. Slowly, every single investment aside from the lake is losing value. Why bother with LRT, streetcar, etc. if you don't allow for the intensity of uses needed to sustain TOD?

The residents made not one single valid argument over the project against logical lists of benefits presented by supporters. An infusion of market rate apartments, retail connecting Mill > Farmer, and the planned office/garage would have nearly completed this development tract and created a distinct urban area beyond Mill. Now, the developer has no immediate plans for the land and I don't blame him. Crescent Rio was denied even though the council decided 1st St should be a mixed-use midrise area?

The Foundry is exactly why Farmer Arts was needed. Developments like this and Hanover on lots that were intended for up to 25+ stories keep pushing the potential growth in downtown permanent residents lower and lower. A 13-story on Farmer could have helped make up for those lost densities. Beyond its height being underwhelming, the Whole Foods rendering is exactly why Fry's will be a design fail for Block 23. As a future streetcar stop, there should be more than just blank Whole Foods walls for 90% of the frontage. Shallow retail bays should have been added.

I am not confident that The Standard will get built. The missing Mill frontage and lack of retail space is unfortunate, but overall, this is the type of project needed instead of religious dorms, 5-story single-use apartments, and parking lots.

P.S. The neighborhood plans to fight against The Foundry. They are clearly against any and all development. Most argue that they can't afford WF - um, sorry, you don't dictate the market assholes.

Agree completely. They will regrettable realize that these people are fools and in the way of positive economic development after they oppose every single development. We've already lost two outstanding proposals. How many will it take before the city realizes that a handful of people who don't even have a stake in the future of the city (they are renters and clearly don't own the properties they live in) are handcuffing the future of the city.

[PHXFlyer11]

I am still fuming on this. I found the council email address and send them this. I encourage you all to do the same. I'm just one voice. Three voices are probably enough to equal the fools who opposed these things.

Mayor and Council,

I grew in up South Tempe, attended ASU (undergrad and MBA) and lived in Tempe until I was 22 years old. It has been so exciting to see Tempe develop into a growing but still intimate semi-urban environment. Most recently however, it is concerning to see the regression take place that seriously limits the potential further economic growth of the city. The decisions by many members to oppose the development of Crescent on Rio Salado and the 13-story project on Farmer poise significant risk to the city and the investments that have been made by the taxpayers.

Light rail has been a great success, the future street car will further contribute to an urban environment and spur additional growth – that is of course unless you continue to discourage high-density development and create reluctance among developers who are looking to invest hundreds of millions of dollars into our city. What good are these investments if no further growth can be achieved, or if density is limited to simply a handful of remaining empty parcels between Mill, University, Rural and Rio Salado?

Your choices to please a vocal few will only inspire them to continue their efforts against any sort of development in Downtown Tempe, and spook developers who are looking to invest in our city. There will always be opposition to any development, or anything in life. People like hang onto the past. They claim that traffic will increase. Why are we investing in public transit, if not to create an alternative that further enables the economic future of the city?

Citizens have choices. If they don’t like the traffic they can choose to not renew their leases. Clearly, those opposed to the developments are not actual those invested in the future as long owners. Land owners would understand that the value of their properties will only increase with these investments. New residents who seek an urban lifestyle will move into the new properties that are developed, and bring with them incomes to support local businesses and compound the investments made over the last twenty years.

As I said, we all have choices, mine will be not to support those council members who cower to a vocal few who are opposed to progress. The pattern that they have established with now two wonderful projects shunned will hurt this city for the foreseeable future.

Regrettably,

Jon

[Jjs5056]

I appreciate your efforts, but it will fall on deaf ears. My letters to the Council caught the attention of the project's lawyer who asked me to come speak in support.

So I attended, and spoke at, the council meeting. Prior to me, several business owners pleaded for more residential to be allowed. I focused on the fact that it becomes a simple economics and math exercise when evaluating the crucial need for Tempe to develop denser permanent housing to support retail beyond bars and restaurants that cater to students. I mentioned Tempe voters having bought into a true urban core through the passage of several public projects. And, I mentioned that the City is throwing all of those new State Farm workers straight to Scottsdale. The only response? 1 question: "why would this be successful when Hanover is X% occupied?" my answer: "i have not been employed by the developer to research whether there is sufficient demand, but I imagine they see something if they are fighting for its success. Oh, and Hanover is a disaster of a building."

The opinions they listened to were a combo of "you'll price us out of the neighborhood," "it's too tall!," "traffic. parking.," etc. Nearly everyone was asked what they'd prefer to see there and more than one said they prefer a vacant lot to this kind of project. They were also asked what height they thought it should be, which is ridiculous and an insult to the developer who chose the height based on what works out financially. Answers ranged from 0-9.

[muertecaza]

Zoning sign watch: Massive apartment complex planned at Smith/Martin lightrail stop.

http://i.imgur.com/MUsPGjYh.jpg

Empty lots on the south side of Apache--2025, 2055 and 2085 Apache--comprising roughly 13 acres.

38,000 (!) sf of retail, including restaurant, yoga studio and bar.

Up to 6 story buildings, 688 apartments, about 1000 bedrooms, garage parking. 52 du/ac. Total 1.3m sf.

[ASUSunDevil]

I appreciate your efforts, but it will fall on deaf ears. My letters to the Council caught the attention of the project's lawyer who asked me to come speak in support.

So I attended, and spoke at, the council meeting. Prior to me, several business owners pleaded for more residential to be allowed. I focused on the fact that it becomes a simple economics and math exercise when evaluating the crucial need for Tempe to develop denser permanent housing to support retail beyond bars and restaurants that cater to students. I mentioned Tempe voters having bought into a true urban core through the passage of several public projects. And, I mentioned that the City is throwing all of those new State Farm workers straight to Scottsdale. The only response? 1 question: "why would this be successful when Hanover is X% occupied?" my answer: "i have not been employed by the developer to research whether there is sufficient demand, but I imagine they see something if they are fighting for its success. Oh, and Hanover is a disaster of a building."

The opinions they listened to were a combo of "you'll price us out of the neighborhood," "it's too tall!," "traffic. parking.," etc. Nearly everyone was asked what they'd prefer to see there and more than one said they prefer a vacant lot to this kind of project. They were also asked what height they thought it should be, which is ridiculous and an insult to the developer who chose the height based on what works out financially. Answers ranged from 0-9.

Also, Hanover doesn't rent to anyone under the age of 23. While this may sound fantastic in theory, they've eliminated the wealthy ASU student (there are a lot) from even attempting to rent an apartment. Creating a slim demographic of potential renters contributes highly to their lack of occupants (also a very mediocre looking building).

Good design sells, and that's exactly what the city allowed a few transients to flush down the toilet with Farmer Arts. The fact that they're allowing a few Nimby's to dictate the future of Tempe is truly incomprehensible. As a Downtown Tempe resident for nearly a decade, I am literally ready to pack my shit and move to Downtown Phoenix.

[PHXFlyer11]

As a Downtown Tempe resident for nearly a decade, I am literally ready to pack my shit and move to Downtown Phoenix.

I did just that. Tempe didn't really have any high-rise condos (other than HFL) or rent options for young professionals. I wanted to buy and live in an urban environment that was a bit more mature. I settled on Midtown.

[dtnphx]

Also, Hanover doesn't rent to anyone under the age of 23. While this may sound fantastic in theory, they've eliminated the wealthy ASU student (there are a lot) from even attempting to rent an apartment. Creating a slim demographic of potential renters contributes highly to their lack of occupants (also a very mediocre looking building).

Good design sells, and that's exactly what the city allowed a few transients to flush down the toilet with Farmer Arts. The fact that they're allowing a few Nimby's to dictate the future of Tempe is truly incomprehensible. As a Downtown Tempe resident for nearly a decade, I am literally ready to pack my shit and move to Downtown Phoenix.

It's funny how now everyone's perception that Tempe doesn't know urban development and Phoenix is THE place now where only a few months ago it was the opposite opinion of virtually everyone on the forum. Now people are threatening to move away from Tempe because a few projects have been nixed? Really? Overall, development in Tempe is on fire, and like the old song says, you can't always get what you want. Some shit fails. Sometimes a project doesn't resonate for some reason. In a few months, there will be new proposals that will make everyone forget the sky is falling.

[combusean]

Zoning sign watch: Massive apartment complex planned at Smith/Martin lightrail stop.

http://i.imgur.com/MUsPGjYh.jpg

Empty lots on the south side of Apache--2025, 2055 and 2085 Apache--comprising roughly 13 acres.

38,000 (!) sf of retail, including restaurant, yoga studio and bar.

Up to 6 story buildings, 688 apartments, about 1000 bedrooms, garage parking. 52 du/ac. Total 1.3m sf.

It boggles my mind how much land this company owns there. Seems like an entitle and flip project.

[ASUSunDevil]

It's funny how now everyone's perception that Tempe doesn't know urban development and Phoenix is THE place now where only a few months ago it was the opposite opinion of virtually everyone on the forum. Now people are threatening to move away from Tempe because a few projects have been nixed? Really? Overall, development in Tempe is on fire, and like the old song says, you can't always get what you want. Some shit fails. Sometimes a project doesn't resonate for some reason. In a few months, there will be new proposals that will make everyone forget the sky is falling.

I love what Tempe has done on the commercial aspect of development, and I agree it's absolutely on fire. Who wouldn't want to work in Downtown Tempe (hot college girls and tons of food options)?

The problem is that young professionals don't want to live in Downtown Tempe because the "cool" living options aren't there (unless they can afford a $2800 per month 2 bed on the lake). Shutting down Farmer Arts to please a few nimby's speaks volumes to the cities lack of residential vision. I can feel the trend because I live in the middle of it; all of my friends are headed towards Central Phoenix. I will be first in line to sign a lease at Circles :notacrook:

[Jjs5056]

I love what Tempe has done on the commercial aspect of development, and I agree it's absolutely on fire. Who wouldn't want to work in Downtown Tempe (hot college girls and tons of food options)?

The problem is that young professionals don't want to live in Downtown Tempe because the "cool" living options aren't there (unless they can afford a $2800 per month 2 bed on the lake). Shutting down Farmer Arts to please a few nimby's speaks volumes to the cities lack of residential vision. I can feel the trend because I live in the middle of it; all of my friends are headed towards Central Phoenix. I will be first in line to sign a lease at Circles :notacrook:

I agree. I don't think it's a case of people being fickle or being persuaded/dissuaded by a couple of projects on either end. Having spent an entire weekend in each of the two downtowns for the first time in a while, the change in vibes for both is most definitely real. A little over a year ago, the area between Roosevelt St and CityScape was pretty much dead beyond ASU. With the wave of adaptive reuse running south to Fillmore and the new entertainment/dining options now surging in the most urban downtown blocks (Monroe and Adams), downtown now has a really good mix of commercial activity that is almost 24-7 before any of the residential projects have opened. Flood the streets with 1,000+ residents, and the holes will start to fill in and redevelopment will occur.

Tempe, OTOH, has more concentrated "energy," but in my upper 20's, I felt a little out of place and, of course, once you step off Mill, it's a ghost town. Back in the boom, there were great plans that would expand the energy of Mill east and west and create a real downtown, but that isn't a vision that has been implemented or supported. The lakefront and ASU's district will build up, but they're pretty suburban in design and there just isn't much land left in the core of downtown for the trend to turn back. Filling in a few lots with 5-story market rate apartments will never provide the amount of density being built already downtown Phx.

It's too bad Mackay is a quack and obsessed with proving that she 'turned around Midtown,' and has now added the Warehouse District to her agenda, because downtown really needs jobs now. That State Farm complex in downtown Phoenix would've been awesome - and there would have been residential options for the workers to live in.

[Obadno]

Two project updates:
http://azbex.com/tempe-may-get-new-fairfield-inn-suites/

Corner of Priest and Fountainhead Pkway. Shitty use for that space would have preferred a 4+ story office building or something.

And the Church tower
http://azbex.com/tempe-oks-295-unit-student-housing-project/

Does this have legs??

[mdpx]

That Fairfield Inn looks so dated...like something from the 1980s or 1990s. Why bother hiring an architect? Use plans from one of the other 20 million ugly designs.

[combusean]

That State Farm complex in downtown Phoenix would've been awesome - and there would have been residential options for the workers to live in.

Where exactly would you put 8,000 employees and a parking spot for every one of them and then some in Downtown Phoenix? I'm glad Downtown didn't get this for that reason.

[Obadno]

Where exactly would you put 8,000 employees and a parking spot for every one of them and then some in Downtown Phoenix? I'm glad Downtown didn't get this for that reason.

Its like 80 floors worth of towers of office space. I also wish it was downtown but state farm very actively chooses to locate all of our offices in suburban areas.

The recent developments in Tempe, Dunwoody Ga, and Richardson Tx, are shockingly urban by comparison.

company preference they would never locate in a downtown.

[RichTempe]

From KTAR about the AC Hotel opening next month. Not really much new other than the opening date.

http://ktar.com/story/1043035/first-hotel-to-open-at-tempe-town-lake-next-month/

[azsunsurfer]

I was driving down Rural yesterday and there is a red zoning sign on the corner with Terrace. Originally this corner was entitled for two towers but it never went anywhere. I couldn't really read the sign or when the neighborhood meeting is but I did see the name for the new development "SKYVIEW" so I am assuming it might be another tower(s)? If anyone has anymore info...

[dtnphx]

This is disappointing...

Cresent Taking Another Run at Tempe Project With Dramatically Scaled Back Density

Takes a bit of time to load....

http://brewaz.com/hot-news/crescent-taking-another-run-at-tempe-project-with-dramatically-scaled-back-density/

[muertecaza]

This is disappointing...

Cresent Taking Another Run at Tempe Project With Dramatically Scaled Back Density

Takes a bit of time to load....

http://brewaz.com/hot-news/crescent-taking-another-run-at-tempe-project-with-dramatically-scaled-back-density/

Better than what's currently there I guess. And impressive that they're still even interested in making it work given the shit they went through with the last proposal. 209 units on 3.2 acres and 4-5 stories isn't the worst. Definitely agree though that it's a bummer when compared to the original proposal.

[muertecaza]

I was driving down Rural yesterday and there is a red zoning sign on the corner with Terrace. Originally this corner was entitled for two towers but it never went anywhere. I couldn't really read the sign or when the neighborhood meeting is but I did see the name for the new development "SKYVIEW" so I am assuming it might be another tower(s)? If anyone has anymore info...

I drove by during lunch today out of curiosity. Here is the sign:

http://i.imgur.com/BGAGkImh.jpg

Tempe is definitely winning the proposal game right now, but it sure would be nice to have some of these actually start construction some time soon.

[TempeSilverFox]

Don't remember if anyone already post this:

http://azbex.com/tempe-oks-295-unit-student-housing-project/

Tempe has given the green light for The Maxwell! This will definitely add some density to the region between Mill and College!

One 18 and one 20 story tower and 295 units between them as well as a restaurant.

[PHXFlyer11]

Don't remember if anyone already post this:

http://azbex.com/tempe-oks-295-unit-student-housing-project/

Tempe has given the green light for The Maxwell! This will definitely add some density to the region between Mill and College!

One 18 and one 20 story tower and 295 units between them as well as a restaurant.

Scroll back a little bit. This was discussed quite a bit. Some are upset this is student housing, but I think it's a good win. Students need to be housed somewhere, so why not in towers? Better than the alternative.

[muertecaza]

May Development Report:

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=38886

Nothing really new. The "Skyview" proposal on Rural isn't on there yet. The only thing I noticed is that Ehrhardt's Schwinn on University is going to go the way of the former Zia and become a restaurant--a "First Watch." I know there are a few of those around town, but I've never been there.

[azsunsurfer]

The big new is that they are pulling a permit for demolition/ construction of University 2.0...and Valor. So it will be nice to see those projects go vertical with Skyview some day becoming the center piece.

Also we should be seeing something about the first phase of the athletics village soon.

[muertecaza]

The big new is that they are pulling a permit for demolition/ construction of University 2.0...and Valor. So it will be nice to see those projects go vertical with Skyview some day becoming the center piece.

Also we should be seeing something about the first phase of the athletics village soon.

True I missed University 2.0. Between that, McClintock Station also doing demo and in review for a building permit, and Broadstone Lakeside also in review for a building permit, that should keep the action going.

Also notable, May 24, 2016 DRC meeting should be a doozy. The Standard, The Foundry, and "Eastline Village"--the big apartment complex proposed for the land near the Smith/Martin lightrail stop--are all going up.

http://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=41037

[PHXFlyer11]

Is this new or old? I don't have a subscription...

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2016/05/06/vancouver-developer-buys-stake-in-prime-parcel.html

Where is the "prime parcel?"

[Socalzonie]

Is this new or old? I don't have a subscription...

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2016/05/06/vancouver-developer-buys-stake-in-prime-parcel.html

Where is the "prime parcel?"

0.4 acres at college ave and 6th st. Current location is jacks tix and paradise hawaiian bbq. No specific development plans identified.

[PHXFlyer11]

0.4 acres at college ave and 6th st. Current location is jacks tix and paradise hawaiian bbq. No specific development plans identified.

Thanks. That Hawaiian place is terrible. Great redevelopment opportunity.

[muertecaza]

Thanks. That Hawaiian place is terrible. Great redevelopment opportunity.

I've always thought about eating there but never got around to it--good to know I needn't bother.

Here is the developer:

http://www.macdevcorp.com/projects/

Seem to do pretty good work. The only thing they have in Arizona is they own One Lexington in Midtown.

[PHXFlyer11]

I've always thought about eating there but never got around to it--good to know I needn't bother.

Here is the developer:

http://www.macdevcorp.com/projects/

Seem to do pretty good work. The only thing they have in Arizona is they own One Lexington in Midtown.

Good work, I agree. They don't own One Lexington, they are condos, which seems to be their thing, with some commercial. It would be great to see a mixed-use with condos rather than apartments.

[combusean]

If you want to read the business journal for free, view the source of the article and find in page for "content__segment" and that will highlight where the actual text starts behind the paywall.

[PHXFlyer11]

If you want to read the business journal for free, view the source of the article and find in page for "content__segment" and that will highlight where the actual text starts behind the paywall.

Nice, thanks! I didn't know that.

[PHX31]

Thanks. That Hawaiian place is terrible.

I like it. Granted, I like it after a day of drinking and watching ASU football. The mixed plate is good for that purpose. Plus I like getting a quick beer there from the beer tubs before or at halftime of a game. I'll miss the place.

[ASUSunDevil]

Fencing went up today at Broadstone Lakeside.

Once those crybabies settle on a Crescent Rio solution, there will be a nice stretch of residential on 1st St.

For reference:

http://azbex.com/design-continues-for-broadstone-lakeside/

[muertecaza]

Fencing went up today at Broadstone Lakeside.

Once those crybabies settle on a Crescent Rio solution, there will be a nice stretch of residential on 1st St.

For reference:

http://azbex.com/design-continues-for-broadstone-lakeside/

And with the Dog & Pony Brewery on the west side of Crescent, yeah, it should be a nice stretch.

[muertecaza]

The Hayden Flour Mill redevelopment appears to still have some life.

At the May 12 City Council meeting, the council will hold the first public hearing to authorize entering a development agreement that appears to now finally have been successfully negotiated to redevelop the Mill and surrounding area.

Here is the Agenda, item 6B2:

http://documents.tempe.gov/sirepub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=1150&doctype=AGENDA

Here is the site plan:

http://i.imgur.com/6OnXRXj.png

Here is the developer's site:

http://www.baumrevision.com/hayden-flour-mill

Really hope they can get this done, it would be awesome.

[phoenixwillrise]

If they don't get it done this time someone ought to nuke that tacky eyesore.

[PHXFlyer11]

The Hayden Flour Mill redevelopment appears to still have some life.

At the May 12 City Council meeting, the council will hold the first public hearing to authorize entering a development agreement that appears to now finally have been successfully negotiated to redevelop the Mill and surrounding area.

Really hope they can get this done, it would be awesome.

Is it just me, or is this different than the original plans? The layout seems different to me. I am trying to find the YouTube fly-through, but am not having luck.

[azsunsurfer]

That original corner use to house the developer's office on the second floor above that awful Hawaiian place. They originally had plans for a 19 story student housing tower similar to UH next door with ground floor retail. From what I remembered it was almost cladded in this nice blue glass.

They never took it thru entitlements from my understanding. I think their renderings were based on the multiple overlays Tempe has overlapped on that corner including a reduction in parking requirements. It will be interesting to see if they sold those plans to this Canadian developer to move forward with.

[muertecaza]

Is it just me, or is this different than the original plans? The layout seems different to me. I am trying to find the YouTube fly-through, but am not having luck.

Here is the fly-through:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN2kLWv7iME&feature=youtu.be

It looks more or less the same to me, but I haven't compared the two closely.

[Raymie]

0.4 acres at college ave and 6th st. Current location is jacks tix and paradise hawaiian bbq. No specific development plans identified.

I believe it was built at the same time as University Towers — it matches architecturally — but got split up along the way. I agree, a better density project could and should go there.

[dtnphx]

If they don't get it done this time someone ought to nuke that tacky eyesore.

Not again. Ugh. :slob:

[Obadno]

Not again. Ugh. :slob:

I know you want to preserve the Mill but you have to realize most people have no idea what it is. Most people don't make the connection, Ive been asked by several people (who know I follow this stuff) why they haven't torn it down already

Tempe hasn't done much to make the Mil more than an ugly abandoned eyesore.

[KEVINphx]

dumb opinions abound folks :-D

[Obadno]

dumb opinions abound folks :-D

what dumb is thinking that everyone shares your opinions, or that your opinion is even slightly reasonable.

as I've said before the Mill's only significance is the road/neighborhood named after it. The city itself has tried to move to a "downtown Tempe" branding. If the namesake is lost there is no point in maintaining a 100 year old flour mill on extremely valuable land.

Just because something is old doesn't make it worth saving.

[dtnphx]

I know you want to preserve the Mill but you have to realize most people have no idea what it is. Most people don't make the connection, Ive been asked by several people (who know I follow this stuff) why they haven't torn it down already

Tempe hasn't done much to make the Mil more than an ugly abandoned eyesore.

Most people don't know that it's a grain tower? 'Mill' Ave, anyone? Obviously this is a proposal that requires a strong public private partnership and doesn't get done by waving a magic wand. Sometimes this stuff takes a really long long time. Doesn't mean we should tear it down, or nuke it as was proposed earlier.

[muertecaza]

what dumb is thinking that everyone shares your opinions, or that your opinion is even slightly reasonable.

as I've said before the Mill's only significance is the road/neighborhood named after it. The city itself has tried to move to a "downtown Tempe" branding. If the namesake is lost there is no point in maintaining a 100 year old flour mill on extremely valuable land.

Just because something is old doesn't make it worth saving.

I personally love the Mill, but I agree it's not necessarily "dumb" to think otherwise.

To me, there are other reasons to attempt to preserve it besides "the street's named after it," including:


It's the oldest reinforced concrete building in Tempe. "Old" may not always be a reason to preserve, but I think "oldest" sometimes can be.
It's on the National Register of Historic Places at the State Level of Significance. So obviously the powers that be view it as historically significant.
It played a significant role in Arizona's history. From this link: (http://www.tempe.gov/city-hall/community-development/historic-preservation/historic-eligible-properties/hayden-flour-mill-silos) From the start of operations in 1874, the Hayden mill became one of the most widely known institutions in the Arizona Territory. In early territorial days the product of this mill was carried in freight wagons and by pack-trains to most of the mining camps and military posts in the Territory and its output was estimated in millions of dollars. Army and government contracts running into hundreds of thousands of dollars were filled from this mill and Hayden Flour was known in every town and mining camp in Arizona. The Salt River Pima Indians grew wheat which they brought to the mill by horseback, and Hayden established trading posts on the Gila River Indian Reservation to supply the mill. Hayden Mills flour sacks were an important source of children’s clothing for many pioneer families. The mill, along with Hayden’s store, warehouses, blacksmith shop, and ferry, became the trade center for the south side of the Salt River Valley.
The Mill was founded and run by Charles and Carl Hayden, significant figures in Tempe and Arizona history
I just like them--I think the silos themselves look awesome, and I don't really view them as an "eyesore." And I imagine a lot of people feel the same way.

On a related note, I just looked down there and there is a crew that appears to be preparing to bury the power lines that run on the south side of the Mill. So maybe with that, and the agreement negotiated with the developer, we may finally actually see it redeveloped? To me that's the best case regardless of whether you like the Mill or not.

[Obadno]

I personally love the Mill, but I agree it's not necessarily "dumb" to think otherwise.

To me, there are other reasons to attempt to preserve it besides "the street's named after it," including:


It's the oldest reinforced concrete building in Tempe. "Old" may not always be a reason to preserve, but I think "oldest" sometimes can be.
It's on the National Register of Historic Places at the State Level of Significance. So obviously the powers that be view it as historically significant.
It played a significant role in Arizona's history. From this link: (http://www.tempe.gov/city-hall/community-development/historic-preservation/historic-eligible-properties/hayden-flour-mill-silos) From the start of operations in 1874, the Hayden mill became one of the most widely known institutions in the Arizona Territory. In early territorial days the product of this mill was carried in freight wagons and by pack-trains to most of the mining camps and military posts in the Territory and its output was estimated in millions of dollars. Army and government contracts running into hundreds of thousands of dollars were filled from this mill and Hayden Flour was known in every town and mining camp in Arizona. The Salt River Pima Indians grew wheat which they brought to the mill by horseback, and Hayden established trading posts on the Gila River Indian Reservation to supply the mill. Hayden Mills flour sacks were an important source of children’s clothing for many pioneer families. The mill, along with Hayden’s store, warehouses, blacksmith shop, and ferry, became the trade center for the south side of the Salt River Valley.
The Mill was founded and run by Charles and Carl Hayden, significant figures in Tempe and Arizona history
I just like them--I think the silos themselves look awesome, and I don't really view them as an "eyesore." And I imagine a lot of people feel the same way.

On a related note, I just looked down there and there is a crew that appears to be preparing to bury the power lines that run on the south side of the Mill. So maybe with that, and the agreement negotiated with the developer, we may finally actually see it redeveloped? To me that's the best case regardless of whether you like the Mill or not.


And I think Tempe has hurt their own cause with the Mill by not doing more to make the story of the Mill more central to the Towns history.

[PHX31]

I know you want to preserve the Mill but you have to realize most people have no idea what it is. Most people don't make the connection, Ive been asked by several people (who know I follow this stuff) why they haven't torn it down already

Tempe hasn't done much to make the Mil more than an ugly abandoned eyesore.

There's a relatively interesting park with placards and old photo boards at the mill, and you can look inside the building at the old structure and some of the equipment. Have you ever gone there and looked at it? It's pretty cool to walk up to it and look inside.

I like the mill. How many historic industrial buildings does the entire state even have? It's a really cool relic sitting in plain site for all to look at (and enjoy... at least I do).

Check it out if you never have. One of the more interesting things I found out was there is an old water intake/stream/channel/well that they covered up with dirt at one point in history. There are plans to uncover it once they ever do redevelop the site. That would be pretty cool.

If the site is redeveloped, I hope the mill doesn't change much. It would be nice for it to be prominent no matter what happens on the site.

[muertecaza]

Fencing went up today at Broadstone Lakeside.

Once those crybabies settle on a Crescent Rio solution, there will be a nice stretch of residential on 1st St.

For reference:

http://azbex.com/design-continues-for-broadstone-lakeside/

Demo is well underway now. Good to see some of the planned developments moving dirt.

[phoenixwillrise]

And I think Tempe has hurt their own cause with the Mill by not doing more to make the story of the Mill more central to the Towns history.

If they can get it done now. Maybe the city should put a museum thing on the ballot and get it rehabbed that way. Put it up for vote and let's see who is willing to pay for the history. Every friend I bring to Tempe from out of state says what is that tacky thing? and Tempe is a neat downtown except for that eyesore.

[mdpx]

If they can get it done now. Maybe the city should put a museum thing on the ballot and get it rehabbed that way. Put it up for vote and let's see who is willing to pay for the history. Every friend I bring to Tempe from out of state says what is that tacky thing? and Tempe is a neat downtown except for that eyesore.

Really? So, you have all these friends coming to town and as you're driving down Mill, each one universally points out the property and says the same thing without any prompting by you? That's simply unbelievable! Surprising since there are so cool projects, buildings, variety and urbanization in the area, that they hone in that specifically. Guess the glass is half empty.

[Obadno]

Really? So, you have all these friends coming to town and as you're driving down Mill, each one universally points out the property and says the same thing without any prompting by you? That's simply unbelievable! Surprising since there are so cool projects, buildings, variety and urbanization in the area, that they hone in that specifically. Guess the glass is half empty.

"it doesn't count unless literally everyone says they dont like it"

just 1 person saying something is memorable, more than how many dont say anything, Ive heard both residents and visitors make a mention of the Mill because it is ugly.

Why do some of you get so hostile when the average layman says an ugly building is ugly. You must be great at parties.:shrug:

[azsunsurfer]

http://azbex.com/asu-athletic-facilities-district-projects/

2018 seems so far away for the first phase! At least it's moving forward.

[PHX31]

http://azbex.com/asu-athletic-facilities-district-projects/

2018 seems so far away for the first phase! At least it's moving forward.

Definitely good to see it moving ahead.

Brian Kearney was one of the project managers and was out front and center for the big Blue Sky development in Scottsdale that seems to have failed. I'm sure he's got a pretty big sore spot for Scottsdale and is happy to be working on the facilities district.

[phoenixwillrise]

Really? So, you have all these friends coming to town and as you're driving down Mill, each one universally points out the property and says the same thing without any prompting by you? That's simply unbelievable! Surprising since there are so cool projects, buildings, variety and urbanization in the area, that they hone in that specifically. Guess the glass is half empty.
I have several friends who like I are interested in among other things architecture and building. And yes over a period of years several have commented about the eyesore of the Mill. You have a problem with that? It may give you warm fuzzies and you may think of yourself as Mr. History or building preserver or something but yes in the real world there are people who find that thing butt ugly. Be great if they can do something about it soon if not nuke the thing.

[RichTempe]

What is the rush to "nuke" the Old Mill all of a sudden? Aside from the redevelopment plan, is there some other totally awesome proposal for the area that the Mill is preventing from moving forward of which I'm unaware? It's not as if it's on last piece of land in downtown Tempe that could potentially be developed either. 100 Mill, which is literally right across the street, can't even get off the ground, so I doubt that tearing the Mill down would do more more than give us a vacant lot for the foreseeable future. Also, I'm pretty sure that people don't think, "Oh I'd go down to Mill Ave/downtown Tempe more often if only they'd get rid of that tacky, old, butt ugly eyesore!"

Tearing it down would cost money, probably a lot of money since it's several very large reinforced concrete structures that would then have to be hauled away. So unless a developer has the cash, time and motivation to do it, don't go expecting that the city will just because some people don't think it has any value in its current state.

I agree that using 'it's old' should not be an excuse to save just any building, but I also don't think that 'it's ugly right now' should be the only reason to demolish something historical. The Mill will either get redeveloped one of these days, or it will eventually get torn down when and if someone has a decent, viable plan for the land it's on. For God's sake, it took them 60 years to tear down the old Mill Ave. bridge that closed in 1931 so I don't think that waiting 6 years since the end of the Great Recession to get something going on the mill site is asking too much of anyone's patience. I'd much rather see that miserable old junkyard at 1st St. & Farmer finally go away than have the Mill torn down for no other reason than some people don't know or understand its significance or think it's ugly at the moment.

[Spitfiredude]

My two cents...

I lived at West 6th for 2 1/2 years and at the time was very proud of my city (not saying I'm not now, just live in Old Town now). I use to take people in from Center Parkway to Mill so they got the full effect of downtown Tempe. Historic bridge, shiny glass buildings, A Mountain, Beach Park, & of course the Mill. I have had people ask me "is that the Mill?" or the dumb question "is that why they call it Mill Ave" (which is more of an assurance question). I've never had anyone ask "what is that ugly building?" or anything along those lines. & I entertained tons of people. So idk what you mean when you say your friends don't know its a Mill. Its pretty obvious.

Anyway, I believe that the Mill is one piece of history that needs to stay. You can't replace everything with a modern, high-mid rise building. It gets boring and consistent. This gives some flavor and a nice effect. You can modify things (such is proposed), but to demolish it completely is ridiculous. Might as well switch the name to Center Parkway, because if they did that people wouldn't know why its called Mill Ave 25 years from now. Its a huge part of history & it should be taken care of. Most people think its cool, creepy, mysterious and/or interesting. I literally have never heard someone say "that building is ugly".

With that said, I agree it could use a fresh coat of paint & some restoration or redevelopment. To say it needs to be torn down.... lets be real... That statement is unrealistic. I would be the first to be pissed/against it. I'm sure many people would follow.