Tempe Development Thread

[ciweiss]

^^^^
Don B. That is for the Tempe Gateway project. I also saw a crane over at Hayden Ferry Lakeside as well but it is no longer there. Perhaps just using it for temporary storage. They are really going to town over at the US Airways (Tempe Gateway) project. From the article below it sounds like a lot of the retail that is going to be on the bottom is already spoken for. That is good. We don't need any more vacant buildings. I keep hoping that the Coffee plantation area gets new tenants as well. I'm sure having Tempe Marketplace nearby will be a lot of competition.

http://tempe.gov/comdev/WeeklyUpdate/03JUL08.pdf

[tempedude]

Was in town yesterday from Prescott (man, it's fraking hot down here) to look at the new place (inspection) and move my photos to a new spot in a gallery on Roosevelt, and we drove by downtown Tempe on the 202.

There's a new and rather large crane just west of Mill around Rio Salado or a little further south. Any clue what this crane is for? It almost looked like it was on the site of the Monti's project. It might also be for US Airways Phase II, but it seemed very tall for a short building.

Downtown Tempe is looking very cool. Pity it's not adjacent to downtown Phoenix.

--don

That crane is for the Tempe Gateway development. (U.S. Airways Phase II - office space and retail) The crane is just south of Monti's and is on the property right next to the U.S. Airways building and the 3rd Ave. Metro rail station.

Here is a link for more detail on Tempe Gateway (http://www.tempe.gov/Maps/DevProjectDetails.aspx?LocationID=5667bbef-9350-4295-84fe-b8eead70964b).

edit: oops sort of a double post...but, I'm sure Don is talking about the crane at Gateway

[PC2001]

Do you guys think Centerpoint is not a good investment now? I've reserved a unit and put 5% down. I dunno if I should just lose that money or lose more in the end. Hope to get some input on this. They have kept moving the closing dates and they're really not dropping their prices.

[ciweiss]

PC2001 - that is one tuff question. I am no expert whatsoever but I'll let you know my thoughts. It would be tuff to pick up a place and find out in a couple years that it dropped 100-200K. It would also be tuff to cancel and then it goes up 100-200K in the next few years. Another option might be to cancel where you may lose 20K and if the price were to drop 100K then buy it then. Or from someone else whom had to unload it. With that being said I bought my place in Hayden Square a year ago. It seems prices might have come down but it is tuff to guage 10-15%??? Hard to tell. It would blow if it goes down 25-35%. At the same time I love living here. Not having to drive places for entertainment. Take for instance today for the 4th I will walk 300 yards to enjoy the show where as some people are going to be driving a half hour. Plus I don't have to park. I just saw the lightrail train roll by 5 minutes ago. That is cool. I think I would take a lot into consideration and thought. Is this near your place of work? What if you lose your job or have to get one elsewhere? Could you float the payments for a while. Do you like the area enough that if the price dropped 100K that you would not care. I think if I were you I would consult a lot of experts and see what your options are. If the economy continues to faulter there might not be a whole lot of demand for high end condos. You could always pick up another condo that has already taken a hit. Or the investor had to bail because they could not afford it and now it is going for 100K less. You might not be in a skyscraper but may be a block or two away. So to recap I have no freakin idea but wish you the best of luck in your decision. Dtown living is definitly cool and Tempe does seem to be one of the coolest areas of the valley. I'm looking forward to other peoples thoughts/opinions.

[Gutter Tech]

^^^^
Don B. That is for the Tempe Gateway project. I also saw a crane over at Hayden Ferry Lakeside as well but it is no longer there. Perhaps just using it for temporary storage. They are really going to town over at the US Airways (Tempe Gateway) project. From the article below it sounds like a lot of the retail that is going to be on the bottom is already spoken for. That is good. We don't need any more vacant buildings. I keep hoping that the Coffee plantation area gets new tenants as well. I'm sure having Tempe Marketplace nearby will be a lot of competition.

http://tempe.gov/comdev/WeeklyUpdate/03JUL08.pdf

The crane at Hayden Ferry was to install some signage, nothing special.

[PhxSprawler]

Do you guys think Centerpoint is not a good investment now? I've reserved a unit and put 5% down. I dunno if I should just lose that money or lose more in the end. Hope to get some input on this. They have kept moving the closing dates and they're really not dropping their prices.

I agree with Ciweiss that it is a very tough decision. They should be dropping prices, especially if sales are continuing to be low. I am sure they have gone down from their original sales dates a couple of years ago. Here are my two cents:

Wait until the last possible minute to back out (if you are going to). Check the sales price at that time as if you were a new potential tenant (lie, cheat, or get a friend to give the appearance of a new customer). If the price has declined or incentives are in excess of 5%, demand similar incentives/rebates or walk out and re-purchase. You have to do what is right for you.

For a long-term investment, I couldn't think of a better place than Centerpoint or Tempe in general, but I completely understand your skepticism in this market! I own multiple properties that are falling in value and tying up any potential to take advantage of cheap real estate.

[Azndragon837]

There is a new project proposed by Irgens Development Partners wonder where the hell this is suppose to go?!? As quoted in the publication:

"979 Playa del Norte (Tempe) will be a 100,000 SF, Class A office building located just southeast of the Loop 202 and Scottsdale Rd interchange and adjacent to Tempe Town Lake. Groundbreaking is slated for 2009."

The image is kinda small to scan but it looks cool, 4 stories of office over a 4 story parking garage? This just came out of nowhere and Im not sure where they are planning to build this since ALOFT is almost topped out and ONYX is suppose to break ground soon.

Here is a story I found about it, still not sure where in that site it's going?

http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2008/04/21/daily60.html?ana=from_loop

Sorry with the late reponse (see Page 93 of this thread). I did some research, and I found out where the new 8-story office building will be located:

Lot 2 of the Playa 6 Subdivision (which was a replat of the original Playa Del Norte Subdivision), is the final lot where the office building will be located. It's located just north of Grigio and east of Aloft, adjacent to the future site of a City of Tempe park.

The original Playa Del Norte Subdivision, platted in 2004:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd127/asuazn837/Skyscraper%20Page/PlayaDelNorteSubdivision.jpg
^Lot 6 is the lot where Aloft and the new office building will go.


The Playa 6 Subdivision, done in late 2007, is a replat of the original Plaza Del Norte. It basically became its own subdivision from the original Playa Del Norte Lot 6:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd127/asuazn837/Skyscraper%20Page/Playa6Subdivision.jpg
^The Business Journal article stated that the lot will be 1.75 acres, and the map above basically confirms that (see Lot 2).

Finally, I made a map where the development will be located:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd127/asuazn837/Skyscraper%20Page/PlayaDelNorte.jpg

The "unknown seller" of the land (from the article) is Triyar Hospitality, owner of the land beneath the new W Hotel Scottsdale and several Downtown Scottsdale properties in and around the club district and Fashion Square. This development will finally complete the Playa Del Norte portion of Tempe Town Lake (minus the future site of a new city park). I am amazed how fast this large piece of land developed in such a short amount of time. I remember seeing the plans for In-n-Out when I was still an intern back with Tempe in 2004. Pretty awesome.

-Andrew

[Don B.]

^ Nice map. :)

--don

[DracoCaifan]

Is it the Onyx tower under construction? or not?

[tempedude]

Is it the Onyx tower under construction? or not?

It is not at the moment. Rumor is that Onyx is supposed to break ground sometime this summer. Actually, that rumor came from a press release, but I don't know where that is right now. Sounds like this thing is a go...crazy as that seems in this market.

[Classical in Phoenix]

Great map. I would love it if the Onyx tower breaks ground this summer, but this market is so tough right now.

[Azndragon837]

Onyx will grace the Tempe skyline nicely, but I worry about it breaking ground. Their sales office is open next to Jersey Mike's Subs in the 2-story copper building south of In-n-Out. Every time I go to In-n-Out, I have always wondered what tenant occupied that one suite with their front windows filled with an eerie blue light. It's Onyx's sales office.

Thanks for the map compliments. SnagIt does wonders!

-Andrew

[UTAZLoVer]

Do you guys think Centerpoint is not a good investment now? I've reserved a unit and put 5% down. I dunno if I should just lose that money or lose more in the end. Hope to get some input on this. They have kept moving the closing dates and they're really not dropping their prices.

Well this really is a tough question....

As far as the closing dates moving goes, I don't really think that's much of a big deal. I remember when my parent's house was being built - it was supposed to take eight months. Then we heard nine, then ten....finally it was finished. Now keep in mind - those delays were on a simple, suburban, two-story wood-framed house!! Now jettison forward to this huge skyscraper - I think they're actually doing pretty well with a 4-6 month delay on 22 to 30 stories considering the 2 month delay on a 2-story house.

Now to the prices.... I think any price-dropping would probably occur after closing on all the units they currently have in the works. It's just business - they'd be stupid to drop them before, or else everyone under contract would demand the lower price. That said, I also think that Avenue is hoping that they won't even have to lower prices once C-Point opens on the hopes that sales will pick up when buyers can:

*See the finished units vs. renderings.
*See the finished amenities and be wowed and awed.
*Know the product is completed and readily available for move-in versus waiting years if choosing to buy with a competing highrise.

Whether or not that will actually happen...only time will tell. But they are certainly going to hold out for it - maybe you should too. Maybe not, the decision is yours.

I do know, though, that if you kept it you would have a pretty killer pad in the first true Tempe highrise and that's pretty sweet. I know I'd want one.

In terms of investment value....

In the short term (5 years or less) it's a really grey area on whether you would see a return on your investment. But if you're in it for the long term, like most real estate investments should be made for anyways, I'm confident that Centerpoint would be a good investment - this down market will only last so long and it is a good product. And it's one of the few that will actually get finished in the near future, as we are seeing today.

Hope that helps!!

:)

[loftlovr]

PhxSprawler had some great advice as to your dilemma.
Send in a spy to check on new prices and if you are paying a dime more hold their feet to the fire. They don't want your 5% earnest money- they want you to close.
Ask for any concessions you can get.

I dig Centerpoint a lot but I would be worried that prices would drop over the next few years. No doubt it will be a stellar development, but does Downtown Tempe command $500 psf +?

Losing 5% now would be easier than losing 20% over the next two years....

[burg72]

Well this really is a tough question....

As far as the closing dates moving goes, I don't really think that's much of a big deal. I remember when my parent's house was being built - it was supposed to take eight months. Then we heard nine, then ten....finally it was finished. Now keep in mind - those delays were on a simple, suburban, two-story wood-framed house!! Now jettison forward to this huge skyscraper - I think they're actually doing pretty well with a 4-6 month delay on 22 to 30 stories considering the 2 month delay on a 2-story house.

Now to the prices.... I think any price-dropping would probably occur after closing on all the units they currently have in the works. It's just business - they'd be stupid to drop them before, or else everyone under contract would demand the lower price. That said, I also think that Avenue is hoping that they won't even have to lower prices once C-Point opens on the hopes that sales will pick up when buyers can:

*See the finished units vs. renderings.
*See the finished amenities and be wowed and awed.
*Know the product is completed and readily available for move-in versus waiting years if choosing to buy with a competing highrise.

Whether or not that will actually happen...only time will tell. But they are certainly going to hold out for it - maybe you should too. Maybe not, the decision is yours.

I do know, though, that if you kept it you would have a pretty killer pad in the first true Tempe highrise and that's pretty sweet. I know I'd want one.

In terms of investment value....

In the short term (5 years or less) it's a really grey area on whether you would see a return on your investment. But if you're in it for the long term, like most real estate investments should be made for anyways, I'm confident that Centerpoint would be a good investment - this down market will only last so long and it is a good product. And it's one of the few that will actually get finished in the near future, as we are seeing today.

Hope that helps!!

:)

I worked on the centerpoint project since Nov. of 06. As of right now, many trades have pulled off the job due to non payment. There are millions owed to the trades and right now and nobody knows for sure we the trades will be back. Who knows when the end date will come. Not much work is being done right now.

[Jsmscaleros]

Huh. I understand, this being skyscraperpage.com that most of you are fans of new high-rises coming to Tempe, but I'm not so sold on Onyx or others like it in Tempe. All of the new towers seem to be targeting identical demographics (honestly, wealthy, mostly white people), and with it we've seen the gradual gentrification of Mill Ave., which has really been brand-washing more than anything.

What has really come to Tempe in the last few years? In-n-Out, Starbucks, Tempe Marketplace (with mostly every big-box brand in the country represented), Borders, at least 5 Walgreens/CVS stores, P.F. Chang's, Bamboo Club, blah blah blah... you get the point. This is "X" American City, nothing special or even worth mentioning in my book, and it's come at the expense of spreading out great local businesses to hidden nooks and crannies all throughout Tempe that we now must waste more gas to get to.

These new condominium towers cater to these kinds of bland businesses, are being built extremely fast in a terrible market, ignore socio-economic diversity (which really makes urban spaces great in my opinion), and just add interesting things to look at without much real interest.

So, are all of these projects really what's best for Tempe? Putting all of your eggs in one basket is never a good idea, and Tempe seems to have decided that it wants only a specific kind of person moving to these new buildings.

[combusean]

PhxSprawler had some great advice as to your dilemma.
Send in a spy to check on new prices and if you are paying a dime more hold their feet to the fire. They don't want your 5% earnest money- they want you to close.
Ask for any concessions you can get.

I dig Centerpoint a lot but I would be worried that prices would drop over the next few years. No doubt it will be a stellar development, but does Downtown Tempe command $500 psf +?

Losing 5% now would be easier than losing 20% over the next two years....

Losing 5% is cold hard cash that you don't get squat from--that's a loss. "Losing" 20% on paper only becomes real if you sell. If you do intend on selling after 2 years, yeah, I'd walk away from the deal and never invest on something like this in such a short time frame again.

There are extreme risks you could take in the luxury submarket itself that might prove all the naysayers wrong, but that's probably not why you got into this to begin with.

I don't know a whole lot about investment but one philosophy thats stuck around has been declining prices means things are cheaper and more attractive to buy. If I were you and had the credit, etc. I'd reap the benefits of this decline and just get other units cheaper and cheaper until they're not anymore. Whole lot easier to rent them out when they're an elevator ride away.

[ciweiss]

Huh. I understand, this being skyscraperpage.com that most of you are fans of new high-rises coming to Tempe, but I'm not so sold on Onyx or others like it in Tempe. All of the new towers seem to be targeting identical demographics (honestly, wealthy, mostly white people), and with it we've seen the gradual gentrification of Mill Ave., which has really been brand-washing more than anything.

What has really come to Tempe in the last few years? In-n-Out, Starbucks, Tempe Marketplace (with mostly every big-box brand in the country represented), Borders, at least 5 Walgreens/CVS stores, P.F. Chang's, Bamboo Club, blah blah blah... you get the point. This is "X" American City, nothing special or even worth mentioning in my book, and it's come at the expense of spreading out great local businesses to hidden nooks and crannies all throughout Tempe that we now must waste more gas to get to.

These new condominium towers cater to these kinds of bland businesses, are being built extremely fast in a terrible market, ignore socio-economic diversity (which really makes urban spaces great in my opinion), and just add interesting things to look at without much real interest.

So, are all of these projects really what's best for Tempe? Putting all of your eggs in one basket is never a good idea, and Tempe seems to have decided that it wants only a specific kind of person moving to these new buildings.

You do make some good points. I do think they want to transform Tempe downtown into a semi high end place. I don't think this is really the city's doing but more the developers. When everything went sky high a few years ago the developers were realizing people were paying (and investing) 400k- 1.5 mil for a place they just start building like crazy. Problem is only a small percentage of people (and investors) could sustain that. At the same time I think most downtowns are highend. Even if they don't all consist of skyscrapers they are typically highend (eg. San Diego, Seattle, San Fran). It would have been nice to have some developments that the middle or middle lower class could have afforded by that is unlikely in the DT area. The best you could probably do is buy a nearby house nearby and fix it up.

That is scary that they have stopped work on Centerpoint. I walked by there yesturday and it seems strange. Like it is sitting in limbo. I hope they figure out a way to complete it. Like I said - finish building 1 for condos and get a highend hotel to buy building 2. Put a bunch of conference rooms (which DT needs) on the bottom floors. Do we need more vacant retail in DT mill. Which is what they were planning for the ground floor. Not as many people shop there since Tempe Marketplace opened. The city should have figured this out. Hopefully the economy has not hit the returning students or some of the local restuarants/bars/stores are going to take a hit as well.

[tempedude]

Tempe is slowly driving away the college crowd (like me) from its downtown. The city leaders seem to have forgotten that it was the students who largely made DT Tempe vibrant in the first place. The students created the vibe and then others from around Phoenix came to partake and add to the atmosphere going on up and down Mill Ave., especially on the weekends.

I just don't think Mill has the same feel to it anymore. (Unless there is some kind of special event going on). Gone are the little clubs etc that drew the students. Now its just basiclly a row of restaurants and and a few shops. Sure its great if all you want is to grab a bite to eat and roam around the stores for a little while. I mean even the movie theater is gone and moved over to Tempe Marketplace, which is just another generic suburban style open-air mall in my opinion.

Even Club Rio, which was by the lake on Rural Rd. (lastly known as the Arizona Beach Club before it closed) is gone. It too, got torn down in anticipation of high rise multi-use development lakeside. Tempe is sterilizing its environment. Now, a large portion of the college crowd goes to Scottsdale for nightlife.

It is surprising to see Centerpoint sitting there with not much going on right now. No need to worry though, it will recover. As will many other projects in the pipeline for downtown Tempe.

DT Tempe is still one of the best places in the valley to hangout. But, its in transition, where it will be full of young upscale urban professionals. Thats fine, but to have a true urban feel to it, the hobos and the college crowd need to be in the mix.

[vertex]

^^^Agreed, although I think some of the college crowd (along with the businesses that cater to them) are starting to move south and east, along Apache, thanks in most part to the thousands of dorms, apartments and condos springing up.

On a related note, has anybody noticed the population increases for Tempe since 2000? Not impressive when you compare it to Gilbert, but pretty decent for the state's only landlocked city.

To see the city's numbers grow 10% in the last 7+ years, based entirely on infill and density, is worth noting.

Tempe city
2007 / 174,091
2006 / 170,188
2005 / 167,005
2004 / 165,223
2003 / 162,383
2002 / 161,705
2001 / 160,143
2000 / 158,945

[HooverDam]

I don't think whats going on in Tempe should be surprising, or necessarily viewed as bad. It seems to be part of the natural cycle of cities

Founded/Historic area-->becomes run down/scary-->urban pioneers/young people make it cool again--->it becomes gentrified/yuppified.

Like Vertex said, I think we'll see a lot of the collegey stuff move towards Apache, especially w/ Light rail opening. Which, should be no surprise, it was initially developed after Mill/downtown Tempe, so its not as far along in the cycle. Its somewhere between steps 2 and 3 right now, and will most likely become gentrified itself, and the Urban pioneers will move on somewhere else. Such is the nature of cities, they're ever changing.

[PhxSprawler]

:previous: Good points, HooverDam.

Even though yuppies are moving into downtown Tempe, who was there before? There wasnt much if any housing that was destroyed to make way for the expensive condo's. Tempe did lose some great places, that I will admit, but very few affordable housing units.

The only way you can take the college students out of Tempe is to move the giant University out of Tempe. As long as there are still the bars and nightlife, there will be college students in the area.

One more thing, many of the vacant retail areas (near harkins and Centerpoint) were essentially forced out in anticipation of the demolition and building of Centerpoint on Mill.

[Jsmscaleros]

Excellent points. Cities are ever-changing and developing, but what I would really like to see is some local flair in the mix. I'm hoping that the light rail corridors will spur a lot of local retail and culture. It would also be great to develop something that the city can pride itself on as being unique or actually progressive. The new First Solar headquarters in Tempe might be able to aid in that; it would be awesome to be known as the solar energy capital of the world and it would make a huge step in a good direction for Phoenix.

Speaking of First Solar, I think every new high-rise building in Phoenix should be cladded with window-treatments like that. If you're not sure what it is, it's the new large office-building on the north-side of Tempe Town Lake, across the street from the Marquee Theatre. With buildings absorbing so much heat and direct sunlight, it's kind of stupid really that Phoenix hasn't implemented a requirement for buildings to have some kind of window-treating requirement (another example would be the shades on the Central Library windows). Aside from cutting down the green-house effect (a la, the ridiculous downtown Phoenix courthouse building which functions only as a sweat-box), it would give Phoenix a truly desert-city look that no other place in the country has.

I would also like to take this idea outside of the internet forum community and start petitioning for it if there is enough support. We get plenty of sun in this state to produce energy or innovate in building design and construction, but so far we're not doing anything really but building the same things you see in every American city and completely ignoring the identity of the place we live in. Any thoughts?

[combusean]

I don't think it's fair to say that those that started a city's renewal should be gentrified out--only through the local legend or your own favorite restaurant, bar, retail shop, etc do you truly find the city's soul. For me personally, ... for Tempe, it was probably Gentle Strength, for Phoenix it's been Seamus's, for Chicago it was that Underground Wonder bar with live jazz every night. Growing up in Chandler, it was probably that mini-mall or lingerie store that are long gone by now I bet. Those I don't miss given I'd much take the historic building under them and that downtown Chandler had been a dump for so many years and the new transition is finally welcome.

Downtown Tempe was a dump as well. But it probably xenithed in 2000 right before all the stupid malls opened and everything was completely torn down. I miss Mill's old vibe, with the guy who had the pet python at 5th St I think it was. The frequent minor BS with the kids and TEAM have been replaced with the very real and authoritarian Tempe police who gave even me a hard time after a somewhat heated argument with the bitch at the front counter of the Post Office...evidently they've been having "problems."

Besides the mountain and the Mill, there's not a whole lot left that made Tempe special. Gentle Strength was kinda weird on its own regard but it filled a need. Those Were the Days was overpriced even at the 50% closing sale but it didn't quite matter at that point for a couple old knickknacks. But the youthful element is basically gone besides the hangers on from ASU--nobody is coming from outside the city to downtown Tempe like they are to downtown Scottsdale.

The lakefront developments are still too suburbanized and corporate to impart anything like a Boardwalk feeling, hell, I'd settle for an underbuilt Ocean Drive rather than that crappy pedestrian scale in Hayden Ferry Lakeside. Yes, the next tower will "guide" people into the development but I would still see no reason to do so. They completely missed the natural transition from the mountain to the lake and it's a damn shame.

I am anticipating the Mill's final revival but not so happy they will be moving the old equipment for some of the retail operations. Even then, its proposed use is not something I think downtown Tempe really has an intrinsic need for--gourmet this, wine bar that. Maybe there's some convergence with a significantly older demographic and all the luxury condos, the arts center, then finally the expensive food and beverage that go along with the sort. That was all a given with filling it in with the lake, but in retrospect I think we missed the scale of the impact of the lake itself on Tempe and indeed much of the rest of the Salt River Valley.

Ultimately, if the Salt River weren't totally filled in but maybe converted to something better than the Rio Salado development in South Phoenix, I think Tempe could have sustained a lot of its old vibe. Maybe the full-scale lake was a bit over done--maybe they could have had an area you could sort of walk around in with naturally growing trees in the riverbed rather than everything methodically landscaped at the perimeter but still take a boat down.

On the other hand, the full scale lake is something the other valley cities should have been thinking as well. Ultimately, what was lost out of the lake was enriching the Salt for everybody. That way, you know, a highrise condo with a lakeview wouldn't be exclusive to Tempe. That would have significantly balanced the light rail/lake land rush so maybe Mill Avenue's vibe wouldn't have had to be demolished for its brave new world.

Mill itself will keep most of its original scale with the surrounding 8-story stuff but it will take a concerted effort to keep it at the half-way point between neighborhoods like Boston's Back Bay and SF's Tenderloin rather than slanting significantly toward the former.

Yes, Apache Boulevard does make more sense for the new Tempe given ASU and its associated student ghettos, but it'll take a long time before it's fully realized--as far as Apache finding its soul, even Downtown Phoenix has an edge.

[Jsmscaleros]

:previous: you know what it was for me? The hippie drum circle. Never once played with them, but I do miss them. The mounties keep them at bay now.

But hey, what's that matter now that we've got a P.F. Chang's?

[PhxSprawler]

Don't knock PF Changs. Although they are a chain, they are local, much like My Big Fat Greek Restaurant. I love Tempe for the Phoenicia Cafe, Four Peaks, Slices, and Casey Moores, none of which have left. There is also Hippie Gypsy and the new restaurants around the corner.. Chronic Taco and Munchies.

The drum circles have stopped? Was this within the last few weeks?

Things have certainly changed, but I don't think it has been all bad. I once would never walk around on the side of the tracks west of Ash, but the gentrification of the "arts district" there gives it a nice, urban vibe instead of the Nogales feel it had before. There were a couple of hole-in-the-wall bars lost, but I think it is great overall.

The gutter punks are still present and in full force. I have only been in the valley ten years (and visited Tempe several times before that), but I think it is busier and livelier than ever throughout Tempe. The light rail and ever-expanding ASU will only add to it.

I regret losing many of the places I loved in Tempe (Changing Hands, Headquarters, Cluck-U, Long Wong's, etc), but am satisfied with the current vibe (except for the f'ing empty lots!!!!)

Combusean - Brunchies in Chandler is still open along with its neighbor "Naughty and Nice." Serrano's owns most of that block and holds quite a bit of power over downtown. I don't think they'll leave anytime soon. In addition, the current city council has quite a few preservationists.

[nickkoto]

So I went to In-n-Out for lunch today. You can't really see it from Rural, but the Onyx site looks like a muddy Olympic-sized swimming pool after this weekend's rainstorms. Doh!

I saw some earthmoving equipment being used at the mill last week. Could it be that they're finally going to do something with it?

Also, what's the excavation of Rio Salado by the golf course for? South Bank?

[tempedude]

Also, what's the excavation of Rio Salado by the golf course for? South Bank?

Yes, that is for South Bank

[PC2001]

Thanks to the responses I got about Centerpoint. I'm gonna play it hard. I wont backout though. I really want a weekend place downtown.

[mill]

Wall Street Journal July 16, 2008 PHOENIX -- Flamboyant real-estate financier Scott Coles penned a farewell letter, put on a tuxedo and climbed into bed, where he was later found dead in what police believe was a suicide. The tragedy last month is drawing attention to the condition of the nation's commercial real-estate market, which is beginning to show mounting signs of distress.

Mr. Coles, who was 48 years old, had built his company, Mortgages Ltd., into one of Arizona's biggest private lenders during the real-estate boom. It specialized in short-term, high-interest-rate loans to commercial developers -- builders of malls, office parks, condominiums and other projects -- who either had bad credit or a need for quick cash with no red tape. But he overreached, and the debacle that has devastated the U.S. housing market the past year is now squeezing Mortgages Ltd.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121617220846656637.html?mod=hpp_us_pageone (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121617220846656637.html?mod=hpp_us_pageone)

[PC2001]

I got an update from Centerpoint. I was gonna cut and paste the email but it must be confidential. Briefly it says that they're waiting for the court to review and potentially approve Mortgages Ltd.’s financing. This will be in August 6. Then 60 days from there the first tower will be done. They said that approximately 81%, of the 171 homes in Tower One are already completed.

So I'm probably looking to close in October. Damn that's awesome weather by then. It's exciting!

[HX_Guy]

Awesome man, congrats! Take some pictures from up there when you get a chance.

[ciweiss]

Congrats PC2001 - that is great news. Oct will be a nice and cool time to move in and you will be loving it down there. The cool part is that once the light rail is running a couple months later you will have the best of DT Tempe and Phoenix. I am looking forward to going to a game and drinking a couple beers and jumping on the train and heading back home. No driving or parking to worry about. It is very cool also just to roll downstairs and get some coffee or go meet some friends for a beer.

[JAHOPL]

A nice segue into this morning's news story:

Centerpoint Attracting Potential Investors
East Valley Tribune, Edward Gately, July 17

After losing some of its original financing from troubled lender Mortgages Ltd., the towering Centerpoint condominium project is attracting other investors ready to fund completion of the project on Mill Avenue in Tempe.

That's according to Kenneth Losch, one of the principals of Avenue Communities, the project's developer, and Centerpoint's managing partner. The project includes 375 condominiums in two towers, one that's 22 stories and the other 30 stories.

Mortgages Ltd. loaned funds for the residential and retail development but was unable to provide enough money to complete the project, partly because of the changing investment climate.

The firm supplied $132 million, but Avenue Communities is reported to be seeking $50 million more to complete the buildings.

Scott Coles, former president and chief executive of Mortgages Ltd., was found dead in his home June 2, and his company entered Chapter 11 bankruptcy court protection later that month. Police don't suspect foul play in Cole's death. Avenue Communities is negotiating with Mortgages Ltd. and is seeking a settlement before it makes new financing arrangements with another party, Losch said. He wouldn't say what his company is seeking from Mortgages Ltd.

"It is our intent to have our settlement completed, to have a new lender in place and to fund the project (by) the middle of August," he said.

In the meantime, construction is continuing and there's more than enough money out there to fund completion, Losch said.

"There are numerous people who are willing to provide the money to finish the project 100 percent," he said. "The money is not the issue. The money has never been the issue. There's lots of money out there to do good deals, to do great deals, and this is a great deal."

Before Mortgages Ltd. filed for Chapter 11, other investors were interested in providing financing but they did not want their loan to be second to Mortgages Ltd.'s in repayment, Losch said. Because of the bankruptcy, the authority is in the hands of federal judge who can place a new loan ahead of Mortgage Ltd.'s.

Tempe Mayor Hugh Hallman said Mortgages Ltd.'s struggles haven't in any way hindered Avenue Communities' ability to complete Centerpoint.

"What happens to the underlying financier is not particularly relevant in the long run with the success of the project," he said. "Mortgages Ltd.'s financial difficulty has to do with failures of projects primarily in downtown Phoenix that could not continue to pay the financing company. That Centerpoint is one of the borrowers from Mortgages Ltd. isn't a particular issue for Mortgages Ltd. In fact, it's one of the few performing loans on the portfolio."

It's unfortunate that Avenue Communities has to deal with these difficulties, but "they are not only well-heeled professionals who understand how to get deals done," Hallman said, adding it has significant financial wealth behind it.

The first tower is nearly completed and occupancy is expected in October, Losch said. The first tower includes 171 condos and sales have totaled $24 million so far, he said.

Losch wouldn't say how many units have sold.

[tempedude]

^That's good news indeed.

BTW...congrats PC2001. Good luck with your new home. October is a great time of year, its when things finally cool down after a long hot summer.

[loftlovr]

That article irks me. As if sales have totalled $24 mill- reservation holder's have reserved $24 mill worth of Real Estate perhaps, but $24mill worth of condos will not sell in that wave. Especially in this tricky market with obtaining financing and wishy washy buyers.
And the fact that Mayor Hallman stated that Mortgages LTD had issues primarily relating to Downtown Phoenix... Chataeux had some issues certainly. But money lent for Jackson Street and Hotel Monroe was good investment money in my opinion. Mortgages LTD was pretty spread out in terms of projects across the Valley.
I do wish this project success. I just don't see how investors are lining up to throw in money for a 375 unit project where 25-35 units have been reserved.
Maybe I am missing something.

[ScottsdaleDevil]

I heard that the Lumina project might not be happening and they closed their sales office. I also heard that Clemson just recently tried to sell condos next to their stadium and it was a major flop. I think the idea is nice but does anyone really see that working? I just can't see them building with the high amout of inventory right now for condos in Tempe.

Also, the University Square project has now turned into a parking lot for the city of Tempe...is this moving forward or not happening? It seems like the only project going on by Sun Devil Stadium is the parking garage that the City of Tempe is putting in.

Thanks for the help and this is a great forum!

[ciweiss]

Welcome Scottsdale Devil!
That is a good question regarding future developements. I'm kinda wonder the same. I think some of these projects will start to close. As slow as some of the sales is going I think things will go into perpetual hold. I thought Onyx was going to be breaking ground within about 4 months so I think that will be a tall tale sign of how things are going. I was hoping Mosaic would be next but I am starting to have my doubts. I think people are going to wait until the election and see where the economy is sitting at that point. Its good news about Centerpoint. Glad that is finishing.

[ScottsdaleDevil]

Welcome Scottsdale Devil!
That is a good question regarding future developements. I'm kinda wonder the same. I think some of these projects will start to close. As slow as some of the sales is going I think things will go into perpetual hold. I thought Onyx was going to be breaking ground within about 4 months so I think that will be a tall tale sign of how things are going. I was hoping Mosaic would be next but I am starting to have my doubts. I think people are going to wait until the election and see where the economy is sitting at that point. Its good news about Centerpoint. Glad that is finishing.

Ciweiss,

Thanks for the quick response. Would you or anyone else on the board let me know why ASU sold the land by Tempe Town Lake? That seems to be a prime are to expand the campus but ASU basically gave it away to developers. Any hope in the future that campus projects might happen in the areas of the Town Lake or possibly where Lumina was planned? All of these projects seem like they are going to be on top of ASUs campus and Sun Devil Stadium.

[PhxSprawler]

:previous:

ASU sold at a very opportune time when the land was valuable. ASU wants to enforce public transit usage to become more sustainable, and dumping a parking lot seemed to be the way to go. It still has quite a bit of infill opportunity within its boundaries, as well as the downtown campus. IMO, it was a good idea for the school but poorly timed for the students. Light rail should have been in place before dumping precious parking.

I hope something goes up in place of Lumina/Stadium towers. The market could handle apartments in the area, even if the developers don't try to sell the units as condo's. I highly doubt there will be campus projects there. I don't know how far back in this thread you have read, but ASU will likely demolish and develop the frat houses in the area, however.

[AJphx]

is anything going on with the condos on the gentle strength site or those fenced off sites north of asu? or are they all still just sitting empty?

[PhxSprawler]

The Gentle Strenght site is Mosaic. The sales office is still open, and they are likely trying to sell more before they can get financing to start the project. The same is likely true for University Square (the fenced in area north of ASU).

The same is also true for pretty much all the other condo projects in the Mill area of Tempe - Lumina (Stadium Tower - just south of Sun Devil Stadium), Onyx (on the north side of the town lake near Rural - this seems to be the likeliest project to start), 7th/Mill (Former original site of Long Wong's), the Monti's project, and the Centerpoint phases III and IV.

[Sonoran_Dweller]

The same is also true for pretty much all the other condo projects in the Mill area of Tempe...Onyx (on the north side of the town lake near Rural - this seems to be the likeliest project to start)...

Why did you say that? What gives you the impression of this? Did I miss some recent news?

[nickkoto]

I'm not plugged into the politics or who's applied for crane permits or anything, but I get that vibe about Onyx too. They've done some degree of excavation already. There's a little bit of equipment there. I can drive by there on any given weekday and usually see some evidence that there's a handful of people on the jobsite (maybe a pickup truck or two parked next to the trailer). And maybe they're still a long way from putting up a crane, but I don't get nearly the same optimistic feeling from say Mosaic, where it looks like they dropped off a fence & trailer and never returned.

[ScottsdaleDevil]

Don't know if you guys noticed this but they took out a big section of an old neighborhood along camelback to build this:

http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/downtown/projects/stetsonplaza.asp

Makes you wonder how long it will be before some of the old neighborhoods South/East/West of ASU in Tempe start to get taken down due to high-end development.

[nickkoto]

Don't know if you guys noticed this but they took out a big section of an old neighborhood along camelback to build this:

http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/downtown/projects/stetsonplaza.asp

Makes you wonder how long it will be before some of the old neighborhoods South/East/West of ASU in Tempe start to get taken down due to high-end development.

I actually own a house in NE Tempe (somewhere between University & Apache) and I'd say it's already happening. Maybe the single-family houses haven't been demolished yet in any large number (and I don't really see that happening anytime soon), but I can think of a few. There have also been some rental units that have been replaced with newer/bigger/nicer ones.

But the real 'Out with the old, in with the new' is happening right on Apache. Maybe the Equinox development won't be "High-end" material, but the RV communities and the shabby motels have mostly been closed already and whatever replaces them will definitely be nicer. There seems to be a large apartment complex either new or under construction next to each light rail station, mostly geared towards students with generous parents. I looked at the website for the Campus Suites complex and I believe it even has a scheduling system built in for their tanning program.:rolleyes:

[Tempe_Duck]

Thought this was worth posting. I was at the Walgreen ob Broadway and Mill today and was talking to the GM about the new building and things. He mentioned that as far as they know a Fresh and Easy is coming in to take their place in the old building. Something that was interesting that he said is that Walgreen doesn't like to be in the same building for over ten years if possible.

[PhxSprawler]

Why did you say that? What gives you the impression of this? Did I miss some recent news?

I signed up to receive sales documents from all the condo projects I could find. Onyx seems to be the most active and the only mid-rise that hasn't passed its estimated start date (yet :fingerscrossed: ) I thought Mosaic would have started by now based on their movement, but was way off on that.

[Sonoran_Dweller]

Onyx seems to be the most active and the only mid-rise that hasn't passed its estimated start date (yet :fingerscrossed: )

Which, may I ask, is when?

[tempedude]

There has been a huge boom crane (it must somewhere around 150ft tall or better, approaching 175ft might be more like it) working at the Campus Edge site, on Apache Blvd., for the past 2 or 3 days. I don't see any evidence of a tower crane under construction, but last I heard is that the building(s) is/are supposed to be 8-10 floors. Is it possible to build a 10 story building with that type of crane?

(just asking: they are moving along pretty fast...Campus Edge has changed quickly since loftlovr last posted pics of it just a few days ago. Its possible too, that the building height plans have been shortend.)

[loftlovr]

Heard through a rumor-mill that Centerpoint (Avenue Communities) may file BK. Gas was turned on recently for Phase 1 and was shut off today.
Bad sign...

[PhxSprawler]

The sales office estimated the starting date in September, 2008. We'll see. Here is an article stating the same info. I haven't seen anything new since May, however, and they originally planned to be open in mid-2009, so I have high hopes, but am not holding my breath.

If you prefer to hear it from another source, try here:
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/117080

It's from May 24th, two days after the rainy sales opening.

Onyx Tempe expects to start building a 26-story tower on Tempe Town Lake in four months. It opened a sales center Thursday and has pre-sales on 25 percent of units, said Patrick Tice, vice president of sales. The developer has been raising prices, he said, because it counts on a strong market when the tower is done in 30 months.

[ScottsdaleDevil]

I was told the Lumina project is on complete hold. The sales office has closed and the number they had for the project has been disconnected.

I think the skyline of Tempe will look beautiful with all of these projects but does ASU need half-million to million $$$ condos surrounding it? It seems like the only major successful project is the Grigio apartments. I also heard one of the projects on Apache converted from high-end condos to apartments. Would it not make more sense to put apartment complexes around the campus since that is what most kids want and can afford? I would imagine with 50k + students in a small area apartments would be the answer.

[tempedude]

There is a tower crane going up at the Campus Edge site on Apache Blvd. It wasn't there yesterday. I stepped out onto my balcony this morning and surprise, there it was sticking up over the rooftops of a neighboring apartment complex.

[vertex]

There appears to be a large off-site staging area being used for a construction site somewhere nearby. There are a variety of trucks and a whole lot of steel.

The site is under the 202, on the north side of the lake, between the Mill Ave. bridges. Anybody know where this might be going?

[nickkoto]

There appears to be a large off-site staging area being used for a construction site somewhere nearby. There are a variety of trucks and a whole lot of steel.

The site is under the 202, on the north side of the lake, between the Mill Ave. bridges. Anybody know where this might be going?

Odd. I drove North across the bridge a couple hours ago and they had a large hydraulic jaw on the 202 nibbling away at the concrete guard rail. With the concrete debris falling off the side of the 202, they were working so close to the bridge that I was kind of miffed that I was allowed to drive across.

[ScottsdaleDevil]

There is a tower crane going up at the Campus Edge site on Apache Blvd. It wasn't there yesterday. I stepped out onto my balcony this morning and surprise, there it was sticking up over the rooftops of a neighboring apartment complex.


Looks to be a cool development and is now called The Vue. This is what ASU needs is apartments like this....not 20,000 high-end condos!

http://www.tempe.gov/maps/DevProjectDetails.aspx?LocationID=51fd1c2d-a2b5-4d7a-a90a-4a4e32512fcc

[nickkoto]

This thread could use a little bit of life. Let's play a game of One of these signs is not like the other.

Here's an old picture from the City of Tempe website:
http://www.tempe.gov/maps/Picture.aspx?PictureID=7e2c753a-7c27-4f38-890b-6ccf0888adc5

Here's a more recent one I snapped:
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8126/dorseyplace73108is1.jpg


Say what you want about a housing bust, I don't think an 1100sf condo would've sold there for $299k even two years ago.

[vertex]

Jeez, I've driven by Dorsey Place everyday going to/from work for the last 2 years. I watched it go up, and I swear I thought it was a housing project (judging by the cheap exterior materials and construction), not condo's.

A place this cheap shouldn't ask for more than the mid 100's.

[loftlovr]

Can anyone post the full article?

http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2008/08/04/story1.html?ana=e_ph

Avenue Communities LLC gives Mortgages Ltd. ultimatum: Settle or face lawsuit

Phoenix Business Journal - by Jan Buchholz Phoenix Business Journal

The developers of the massive Centerpoint mixed-use project in downtown Tempe said this week they can't -- and won't -- wait any longer for additional financing while its primary lender on the $200 million project works its way through Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Ken Losch, principal of Avenue Communities LLC, confirmed about $24 million in liens have been filed on the project by unpaid subcontractors. Losch said he has numerous lenders who want to help finish Centerpoint, contingent on Avenue Communities working out a settlement with Mortgages Ltd. That likely will require the beleaguered Phoenix commercial real estate lender to subordinate its two existing loans totaling nearly $132 million.

"Look, we've got an asset with a retail value of over $300 million," Losch said. "We don't have a lender problem. We have an authority problem. (Mortgages Ltd.) needs to make this happen now, or it's going to face large losses (because of) apathy and indecision."

Avenue Communities wants Mortgages Ltd. to file a motion with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court to allow the developer to secure outside financing immediately to finish its project.

[HX_Guy]

Here you go...

Avenue Communities LLC gives Mortgages Ltd. ultimatum: Settle or face lawsuit
Phoenix Business Journal - by Jan Buchholz Phoenix Business Journal

The developers of the massive Centerpoint mixed-use project in downtown Tempe said this week they can't -- and won't -- wait any longer for additional financing while its primary lender on the $200 million project works its way through Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Ken Losch, principal of Avenue Communities LLC, confirmed about $24 million in liens have been filed on the project by unpaid subcontractors. Losch said he has numerous lenders who want to help finish Centerpoint, contingent on Avenue Communities working out a settlement with Mortgages Ltd. That likely will require the beleaguered Phoenix commercial real estate lender to subordinate its two existing loans totaling nearly $132 million.

"Look, we've got an asset with a retail value of over $300 million," Losch said. "We don't have a lender problem. We have an authority problem. (Mortgages Ltd.) needs to make this happen now, or it's going to face large losses (because of) apathy and indecision."

Avenue Communities wants Mortgages Ltd. to file a motion with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court to allow the developer to secure outside financing immediately to finish its project.

"We've been very patient, and our patience is now finished. We want to be bifurcated from that process," said Losch. "We have a hard schedule that we want Mortgages Ltd. to meet so we can go down our own separate road. If it's not adhered to, we will file a lawsuit."

In essence, Centerpoint wants to be separated from the gridlock of intersecting and sometimes conflicting interests that have emerged in the complicated Mortgages Ltd. bankruptcy case.

Avenue's ability to secure an additional $75 million now to finish the high-rise residential and retail project is crucial, company officials said.

Work has come to a standstill on the two towers, retail space and public plaza. The project is largely finished, but still needs extensive interior and landscaping work.

Attorney Carolyn Johnsen of Jennings Strouss & Salmon PLC, the bankruptcy counsel hired by Mortgages Ltd., confirmed that the lender's new president, Richard Feldheim, has been in discussions this week with Centerpoint to resolve issues surrounding the loans and construction delays.

"Both parties left with tasks to do. I'm not at liberty to discuss that, but they are exploring possibilities," Johnsen said.

She was a bit less optimistic about meeting Centerpoint's deadlines, which Losch said he is not ready to disclose.

"Whether we can meet that timeline ... that might not be doable," she said.

Three other Valley developers have claimed -- either in separate lawsuits or through motions with U.S. Bankruptcy Court -- that their projects were never funded to the degree promised by Mortgages Ltd. Avenue Communities is the fourth to make that assertion.

Although problems with disgruntled borrowers began in late spring, Mortgages Ltd.'s financial difficulties were exacerbated by the suicide of the company's chairman and sole shareholder, Scott M. Coles. He was found dead June 2 at his Camelback Mountain home.

Since then, developer Grace Communities forced Mortgages Ltd. into Chapter 11 with support from another developer and Mortgages Ltd. customer, Rightpath Limited Development Co.

KML Development, which has two projects that were supposed to be funded by Mortgages Ltd., recently filed a motion asking U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Randolph Haines to appoint a Chapter 11 trustee to the case. KML's attorney argued in court documents that the current Mortgages Ltd. management and counsel cannot adequately represent all interests in the case, which includes more than 4,500 investors, various borrowers, creditors, heirs of the estate and the lender's employees. That hearing has been scheduled for Aug. 21.

An Aug. 6 hearing still is on, according to Johnsen, primarily to discuss resuming payments to investors who had become accustomed to receiving monthly checks from Mortgages Ltd., but were shut out of interest payments when the Chapter 11 bankruptcy case was filed in late June.

Don Gaffney, an attorney with Phoenix law firm Snell & Wilmer LLP who represents Grace Communities, was unaware of Centerpoint's attempts to separate itself from other Mortgage Ltd. borrowers, but he is not opposed to it.

"There are a lot of different ways this (bankruptcy) could be approached," he said. "It could be separated borrower by borrower and project by project. That could make a lot of sense."

[NIXPHX77]

There appears to be a large off-site staging area being used for a construction site somewhere nearby. There are a variety of trucks and a whole lot of steel.

The site is under the 202, on the north side of the lake, between the Mill Ave. bridges. Anybody know where this might be going?


i believe this is actually for work on the 202 Red Mtn Fwy expansion. they are
revamping the bridge over Mill first; then ADOT will start with the rest of the widening project, basically betw. the 101 and the 51.

[Vicelord John]

so what is up with Onyx?

There is a building on the north side of the river, next to In-N-Out that is about 6 stories and tan... It says Onyx on it. Did they scale it back that much?

[HX_Guy]

More about Centerpoint and Mortgages LTD.

I'm really hoping that the Hotel Monroe projects can get some financing thrown their way as well...that was such a great project downtown.

Mortgages Ltd. to offer Tempe development more funding

by Andrew Johnson - Aug. 1, 2008 07:23 PM
The Arizona Republic

Bankrupt real-estate lender Mortgages Ltd. is working on a plan to provide more financing to the developer of the Centerpoint condominium towers in downtown Tempe.

About $4.5 million in initial financing would allow Avenue Communities LLC to protect the partially complete high-rises from rain, wind and other external elements, according to Carolyn Johnsen, Mortgages Ltd.'s attorney.

Such a move would protect the value of the asset for both the developer and investors who gave Mortgages Ltd. the money to lend to the project.

Centerpoint is one of several Valley real-estate developments financed by Mortgages Ltd. Construction on some projects that have stopped since the Phoenix-based firm was forced into Chapter 11 bankruptcy in June.

Work on the two Centerpoint towers never fully stopped, but slowed, according to developer Ken Losch.

Avenue Communities received about $120 million of a $150 million loan commitment made by Mortgages Ltd.

Losch, who declined through a spokesman to comment for this story, has said he needs $75 million to finish both towers.

Mortgages Ltd.'s plan to extend $4.5 million to Centerpoint is part of an initial offering that would likely include more funding in the future, Johnsen said. The money would come from another lender, unnamed Friday afternoon.

Johnsen said it was possible the company would file a motion in U.S. Bankruptcy Court this weekend outlining the details.

Centerpoint consists of a nearly finished 22-story building with 171 condos and a 30-story tower with 186 condos. A press release Avenue Communities issued Friday said the company expected the first tower to open within two to three months of finalizing a loan agreement with Mortgages Ltd. and the second tower to open six months later.

Other developments put in jeopardy by Mortgages Ltd.'s financial woes include Hotel Monroe in downtown Phoenix and the Chateaux on Central mini-mansions in central Phoenix.

Mortgages Ltd. has been meeting with other lenders who would give the company interim financing it would use to continue funding loans on some of those projects.

The financing is an important issue to Mortgages Ltd.'s nearly 3,000 investors, who own beneficial interests in the notes and deeds of trust on the projects.

Cathy Reece, an attorney representing an investors committee in the bankruptcy, said committee members have agreed to subordinate their position on the Centerpoint loan to the new lender. That means the new lender would be paid back before investors when the project is completed.

[Tempe Riser]

so what is up with Onyx?

There is a building on the north side of the river, next to In-N-Out that is about 6 stories and tan... It says Onyx on it. Did they scale it back that much?

Naw that is not Onyx, it's just an advertisement for the real building which will be 26 stories tall built on the east side of Rural on the river. They say construction should be starting soon but who knows.

[andrewkfromaz]

Centerpoint - man this is a lousy, lousy time to be looking for 75 million bucks to finish a residential project, much less getting the Mortgages, Ltd. people to subordinate so they can even go looking for the money. I think this is just bad news all around...

[tempedude]

Eh...Centerpoint will be fine. They will get the funding needed to complete the project somewhere.

I'm not running around pulling my hair out on this one. I am by there almost everyday, and there is still plenty of activity going on at the site. It's not just sitting idle.

[Don B.]

There's something off with the Centerpoint numbers:

"Avenue Communities received about $120 million of a $150 million loan commitment made by Mortgages Ltd.

Losch, who declined through a spokesman to comment for this story, has said he needs $75 million to finish both towers."

Okay, so Mortgages, Ltd. actually shorted Avenue Communities $30 million, according to the first sentence. But, the second sentence says that Avenue Communities needs another $45 million to finish the project, on top of the $30 million shortfall from Mortgages, Ltd.

In other words, Avenue Communities would be facing a problem regardless of whether Mortgages, Ltd. had fully funded their obligation. That's what this seems like to me, unless these numbers aren't correct.

--don

[PC2001]

Wow, I thoughtwith Centerpoint not done yet they'll focus on it. But now they got another project. And it says the first tower will be done by the end of the year.

http://www.globest.com/news/1213_1217/phoenix/172935-1.html

[flyer84]

In the article it says the project is at 31 E Fifth St. I don't understand because the flour mill is on Mill and 3rd???

Wow, I thoughtwith Centerpoint not done yet they'll focus on it. But now they got another project. And it says the first tower will be done by the end of the year.

http://www.globest.com/news/1213_1217/phoenix/172935-1.html

[nickkoto]

Here's a not-so-shocking article from the local paper.

More condo-conversion projects reverting to rentals

by Marjon Rostami - Aug. 12, 2008 02:50 PM
The Arizona Republic
Since the first quarter of 2007, more than two-thirds of condominium-conversion projects in Tempe, Chandler and Gilbert have reverted to rental properties, according to Mark Taylor, a development company in Scottsdale that tracks condo conversions by region.

"The condo-conversion market peaked in 2006 and it pretty much died quickly in the first quarter of 2007," said John Carlson, an asset manager for Mark Taylor. "Part of it was that the Valley experienced units converting at the same time and the demand just couldn't meet the exposure. On top of that, 2006 was a hot market for single-family homes."

Last year, 20 out of the 28 projects that had converted to condos reconverted to rentals in some capacity, Carlson said.

As the real-estate market collapsed, vacant condos motivated investors to make the switch back to rentals, Carlson said. In most cases, investors were the ones that bought into the condo-conversion market, not individuals.

"The condo market is cyclical," Carlson said. "It makes sense right now if someone is looking to build apartments to rent them out as apartments until the market comes back for condos. What we're seeing right now doesn't mean there won't be a market for condos in the future."

When owning a single-family house is just out of reach, Southeast Valley residents turn to luxury-apartment rentals, said Kent Chantung, a developer with Zaremba Group. A few years ago, that same demographic would have turned to condos.


I wish there were more apartments with granite countertops back when I was renting. :haha:

[PHX31]

The condo conversion "fad" if you will always perplexed me. At the end of the day, you still live in a shitty garden apartment complex. Sure, you're the owner rather than the renter, but they are just so unattractive on many levels.

The funny thing about it is I can remember back in 2005, at the height of the housing market boom, I was at the gym in Scottsdale. There were these two "Scottsdale type" guys working out, and one was telling the other one how he bought 5 condos (condo conversions) and won't have any problem selling them for a huge profit. He was even planning on buying as many as he could and he was convincing his friend to do the same. I wonder where that guy is now.

[loftlovr]

I'm sure there were several of "that guy" but I seriously think I may know who you are talking about....
Shorter guy balding?

[HooverDam]

...Whatever happened to the Bruder designed ASU Arts and Business Gateway project? Is that dead? I've been down in Tempe the last few days looking for places and its just crazy how under utilized such a prime piece of land is.

[PHX31]

I'm sure there were several of "that guy" but I seriously think I may know who you are talking about....
Shorter guy balding?


I can't remember exactly what he looked like... kind of choad-ish $30,000-millionaire scottsdale club guy.

[andrewkfromaz]

The condo conversion "fad" if you will always perplexed me. At the end of the day, you still live in a shitty garden apartment complex. Sure, you're the owner rather than the renter, but they are just so unattractive on many levels.

It was a relatively affordable way to get into home-ownership. It definitely sucks as a place to live but I think it made sense for some people who were desperate to get into a place of their own no matter what it looked like.

[Downtown_resident]

I can't remember exactly what he looked like... kind of choad-ish $30,000-millionaire scottsdale club guy.

I think we owe "that guy" and his buddies a big thank you. Thank you for reminding us why it's great to live in downtown/central Phoenix (and not Scottsdale).

http://downtownphoenix.blogspot.com

[tempedude]

...Whatever happened to the Bruder designed ASU Arts and Business Gateway project? Is that dead? I've been down in Tempe the last few days looking for places and its just crazy how under utilized such a prime piece of land is.

Yeah...I think that project is dead...or put on hold for a very long time.

[ciweiss]

This is a bit interesting. I'm not sure what the date is regarding this.

http://www.gebre-apts.com/adminAccess/files/TTL%20brochure.pdf

[combusean]

^ Its a lot for sale. There's no project to it.

I have a "LAND FOR SALE" postcard for a 1/2 acre higrise site down the road from my place in Phoenix...why they sent it to me I have no idea. Nothing but a walled away and miserable 3000 sqft office building on the site today.

Asking price: $1.8 million.

It's an ugly bearing for nothing getting developed for a while. Tempe should get used to a vacant lot problem.

[ciweiss]

^^^^^
Any idea what the 'The Grande' is/was supposed to be on the northwest corner of the map?

Also - has anyone seen the plans for the Onyx on their website and then look at the tiny piece of land and wonder how the heck it would fit in there?:shrug:

[nickkoto]

^^^^^
Any idea what the 'The Grande' is/was supposed to be on the northwest corner of the map?

Also - has anyone seen the plans for the Onyx on their website and then look at the tiny piece of land and wonder how the heck it would fit in there?:shrug:

I've never noticed it on a map, but the last few times I've went to In-n-Out or Jersey Mike's, that lot has struck me as being tiny and I recall the website showed the parking garage only occupying one floor, which sounds impossible for a tower with about 200 units. However, now that you mention it and I have a computer handy, I looked at the website again, it looks like there's a ramp going to one or more basement levels that they chose not to include on the website. But yeah, however they fit it in, it's going to be tight.

I'll take unit 2203 though if I hit the Powerball. That balcony has about the same sq footage as my house.

[SethAZ]

The CVS at the corner of Mill and University opened today. I think it looks ok, and at least built up to the street. Still kinda sucks to see that corner used for something so boring.

I don't remember if this has already been discussed, but a Chipotle is going into the place where Brugers Bagles used to be, across from Gammage.

Also, this was in the paper today about the arts village on the south side of the lake. I'm glad to see the original idea is still in the works.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/tempe/articles/2008/08/14/20080814tr-elements0813.html

[BA744PHX]

Well it looks like Le Meridien did pull out but it looks like another hotel with 100 more rooms then originally planned will replace. Would the building be taller for the additional 100 rooms or?

http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2008/08/18/daily15.html?jst=b_ln_hl

Tod Decker, president of Valhalla Development Group, which had worked out the deal to put the European-style hotel on the south shore of Tempe Town Lake, confirmed Monday that Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide, parent of the Le Meridien brand, pulled out last summer. But plans to put a luxury boutique hotel on the small site -- less than an acre -- were never pulled off the drawing board, he said.

The Le Meridien hotel was designed with 143 rooms and 45 condominiums, but with the local real estate market oversaturated with condos, the plan no longer made sense for the Starwood group.

Decker said he has been working for the last year on a new deal that he expects to be signed within the next 30 days. The configuration on the new plan calls for 240 hotel rooms and 24 condos. He said folks who were hoping for the Le Meridian will not be disappointed.

[PHX31]

I don't remember if this has already been discussed, but a Chipotle is going into the place where Brugers Bagles used to be, across from Gammage.


I used to rent a house with a friend literally feet from that brugers bagels (just down the alley to the south) when I went to ASU. Why couldn't there be a chipotle there back then????????????????????? :hell: I would have been in there all the time, rather than the one time I went to Brugers bagels.

[SethAZ]

I used to rent a house with a friend literally feet from that brugers bagels (just down the alley to the south) when I went to ASU. Why couldn't there be a chipotle there back then????????????????????? I would have been in there all the time, rather than the one time I went to Brugers bagels.
:) I know what you mean. I only went to Brugers a few times when I was at ASU. I'm sure i'll go to Chipotle a lot more. It will do great given the location. If I was still at ASU, I'd go everyday.

[loftlovr]

^ Its a lot for sale. There's no project to it.

I have a "LAND FOR SALE" postcard for a 1/2 acre higrise site down the road from my place in Phoenix...why they sent it to me I have no idea. Nothing but a walled away and miserable 3000 sqft office building on the site today.

Asking price: $1.8 million.

It's an ugly bearing for nothing getting developed for a while. Tempe should get used to a vacant lot problem.

Actually Sean, I believe it is the lot for this project:
Residences at the Artspark:
http://www.phxloftnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1976

[nickkoto]

Looks like Tempe is getting another tower crane on Apache. A red mast has sprouted from the roof of the Equinox parking garage.

Cell phone picture from a moving vehicle:
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2459/towercranebuildequinoxxo0.jpg

[ciweiss]

Actually Sean, I believe it is the lot for this project:
Residences at the Artspark:
http://www.phxloftnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1976


Thanks for finding that Loftlovr. That place looks pretty cool. I must say it is interesting that all these developments have retail on the bottom. I do like that a lot but I hope they can be sustained in a down economy. I wonder if they should nix some of the retail for small office spaces. Way to much retail around and way to little money these days. I also hope DT Tempe can get a small fresh & easy type of grocery soon. CVS seems to be doing well. Lots of locals and students going to be keeping that place hoping.

Bonus to have Chipotle moving in:tup: I too would eat there everyday but my body can't handle those 1300 calorie burritoes as much as it used to. I will have to keep it down to every other day.;)

Dang. All we need now is for Dunkin Doughnuts to move in and the temp to drop 30 degrees and I swear I would be in heaven. btw - the DD is not open on University and Priest yet. Went there yesturday and it will open in 2 weeks. Newspapers failed to mention that.

Trailer at the Mosaic is gone. That doesn't look to good. Why don't they just build the grocery store with a hotel on top. Screw the condos for now.

Gateway is coming along nicely. They are going to town on the project. It looks like the garage is halfway done and they are on the 2nd floor already off of Mill.

Apache is a crazy scene these days. Building going on all over the place.

[ciweiss]

Looks like Tempe is getting another tower crane on Apache. A red mast has sprouted from the roof of the Equinox parking garage.

Cell phone picture from a moving vehicle:
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2459/towercranebuildequinoxxo0.jpg

Nice driving pic nickkoto!! I got one as well of the weinermobile

http://members.cox.net/cweiss72/om.jpg

Any guess as to where that was taken?


hint

Rhymes with Tempe Mission Palms....

[vertex]

Trailer at the Mosaic is gone. That doesn't look to good. Why don't they just build the grocery store with a hotel on top. Screw the condos for now.


Mosaic was never going up (I've only been banging that drum for 18 months now). And there hasn't been a light on in their sales office since April.

The trailer was probably stolen by tweakers and sold for scrap metal.

[RichTempe]

Just saw this on the AZCentral website. Sounds like good news. The full article is here: http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2008/08/20/20080820biz-mortgagesltd0821-ON.html


Centerpoint, Mortgages Ltd. reach financing deal

by Andrew Johnson - Aug. 20, 2008 02:39 PM
The Arizona Republic

The developer of the stalled Centerpoint high-rise condominium project in Tempe has reached a tentative agreement with its primary lender, Mortgages Ltd., to obtain additional financing.

Mortgages Ltd. would give an initial $4.6 million to developer Avenue Communities LLC so it can protect the project's two towers, according to a motion the lender filed Tuesday night in U.S. Bankruptcy Court.

The lender also has plans to funnel about $75 million more to Avenue Communities at a later date to complete the towers, said Carolyn Johnsen, an attorney representing Mortgages Ltd. in its Chapter 11 bankruptcy case.

[Don B.]

How do they propose to get this money in today's tight markets? Print it? Got a special money tree in the back yard?

--don

[nickkoto]

Heh. I've noticed a couple of broken windows at HFL lately, but I didn't know that it was because some dumbass was using the butte as a driving range.

Cost of round of golf off 'A' Mountain is criminal, ASU student finds
by Lisa Halverstadt - Aug. 20, 2008 06:32 PM
The Arizona Republic

A Chandler man was arrested Tuesday after he admitted to hitting golf balls off the north side of "A" Mountain, causing more than $30,000 damage to condominiums nearby.

According to Tempe police reports, 19-year-old Cameron Michael Trett confessed to hitting the golf balls off the mountain on June 2, July 3 and Aug. 5.

Each golfing session caused more than $10,000 damage at the Bridgeview at Hayden Ferry Lakeside condominiums, 140 Rio Salado Parkway, police said.
Broken windows comprised the majority of the damage, Tempe police Sgt. Steve Carbajal said.

Trett, a computer information systems major at Arizona State University, told police he hit the golf balls because he was "bored."

He was arrested on suspicion of three counts of criminal damage.

[andrewkfromaz]

How do they propose to get this money in today's tight markets? Print it? Got a special money tree in the back yard?

--don

People still have money. It didn't necessarily ALL evaporate. Some of them are even looking for good places to invest it, given the rate of inflation and poor interest rates, not to mention the stock market, which isn't for everyone. Apparently, Mortgages Ltd. has found some people who are interested.

[RichTempe]

Sounds like an announcement will be upcoming on what hotel will be replacing Le Meridien for a December ground-breaking.



High-end hotel set to replace Le Meridien

by William Hermann - Aug. 25, 2008 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

The silver towers of the SunCor Hayden Ferry Lakeside mixed-use development on Tempe Town Lake just east of Mill Avenue soon will include a high-end high-rise hotel, said Randy Levin, SunCor Development Co. vice president.

But it won't be the luxury Le Meridien hotel that Starwood Hotels and Resorts Worldwide Inc. had been promising until recently.

Levin said he is not prepared to say what hotelier will now put up the building. "There will soon be a big announcement, and the hotel is going to be spectacular," he said.
Since the beginning of SunCor's lakeside development, a hotel was in the picture. But in recent months, some wondered whether there would be any hotel at all after Starwood backed out. Adding hotel space in downtown Tempe has been a priority for city planners and developers.

Now the $100 million-plus hotel will be put up by a company being lined up by SunCor development partner Tod Decker, president of Scottsdale-based Valhalla Development Group.

"It will be a four-star, four-diamond hotel, a beautiful hotel, and we have the land and will break ground in December," Decker said.

[andrewkfromaz]

When are they going to announce this? I can see it now...

Palin Hotel Pick

Sarah Palin, recently selected by Sen. John McCain to be his running mate, will add "Hotelier" to her resume in 2009, opening a four-star hotel in downtown Tempe, Arizona. "The timing just felt right," said an exuberant Palin, holding her 4-month-old baby Trig.

:jester: :haha:

[ciweiss]

Mill Avenue Centerpoint complex delayed

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/125696

Seems maybe they were premature to vacate the theater.

So what would you do to fill those vacancies? I think I would lower the rent - bring in art studios/galleries/live music - Mill needs more entertainment. I'm still surprised that they don't put the hotel in.

[ciweiss]

I saw some excavating being done at the ONYX site this morning. I would be surprised to see anything going up for a while but who knows. It would be cool. Tempe Gateway project is about 4 stories at this point.

[DracoCaifan]

Does anyone has some updates photos of centerpoint and tempe? I havn't see any lately....