Tempe Development Thread

[Jjs5056]

Rocksteadyo- don't worry; surfer is nasty (different than negative or crtical as I am routinely) in a majority or posts, and it's starting to take the enjoyment from his rant in the EV thread seemed to steam being deeply unappreciated, having not receive a warm enough welcome, nor enough for breaking news us.... Things that really rarely happen given the amount and diversity of every post.:P

It's not surprising they landed a client, one I assume is in the tech field, given their swift move through the planning process.

[Arquitect]

Rocksteadyo- don't worry; surfer is nasty (different than negative or crtical as I am routinely) in a majority or posts, and it's starting to take the enjoyment from his rant in the EV thread seemed to steam being deeply unappreciated, having not receive a warm enough welcome, nor enough for breaking news us.... Things that really rarely happen given the amount and diversity of every post.:P

It's not surprising they landed a client, one I assume is in the tech field, given their swift move through the planning process.

Him not divulging who it might be is not mean. Having been part of talks with possible tenants, I know how shaky it can be. In order to get a loan from a bank to secure financing for a commercial endevour, you need a tenant. Not just one that is saying that they are willing to be a part of the project, but one that will actually sign. So it is a difficult process. Tenants change their minds, or some times are straight up poached by other projects that try to offer them more. So giving out a name could lead to someone else approaching them. Sure, it could have been said a bit more tactfully, but surfer is on the right by not giving out any more information.

[rocksteady]

Him not divulging who it might be is not mean. Having been part of talks with possible tenants, I know how shaky it can be. In order to get a loan from a bank to secure financing for a commercial endevour, you need a tenant. Not just one that is saying that they are willing to be a part of the project, but one that will actually sign. So it is a difficult process. Tenants change their minds, or some times are straight up poached by other projects that try to offer them more. So giving out a name could lead to someone else approaching them. Sure, it could have been said a bit more tactfully, but surfer is on the right by not giving out any more information. Arquitect, we all know about secrecy when it comes to these deals, I was just asking for fun, notice the wink. The point JJ and myself are making is that surfer has a nasty way or replying to just about everything around here. No need for a long explanation of why it was "none of our business", we get it.

[azsunsurfer]

My apologies sometimes I forget we are amongst "mixed" company. I'll try to be more sensitive in my responses. Excuse the "nastiness" or hypermasculinism...as far as I am concerned I contributed while being respectful to my sources. Jj I generally don't respond to someone who has nothing to contribute. I have yet to read a coherent post by you.

[azsunsurfer]

Rocksteady I do apologize sincerely to you. It was unwarranted.

[rocksteady]

Rocksteady I do apologize sincerely to you. It was unwarranted. No worries. :)

[MegaBass]

APS natural-gas plant in Tempe to be demolished (http://www.azcentral.com/business/arizonaeconomy/articles/20140212aps-natural-gas-plant-tempe-demolished.html)

The half-century-old natural-gas plant towering over Tempe east of Arizona State University will be demolished to make way for more powerful, compact and efficient generators, utility officials said.

Arizona Public Service Co. plans to spend $600 million to $700 million dismantling the two steam generators at its Ocotillo Power Plant and replacing them with five shorter generators that use less water and fuel to make electricity. The company hopes to complete the project in 2018.

The two steam-driven generators provided nearly one-third of the electricity for APS during hours of peak demand when they opened in 1960. They now provide a fraction of the company’s supply as the metro area has grown.

“We have sort of a love story with Ocotillo,” said Pat Dinkel, APS vice president of resource management. “They served Arizona through a phenomenal growth period. These units were built before we built coal and nuclear and other units. This was the cornerstone of building Arizona for the last 50 years.”

APS plans to begin seeking permits for the project next month, Dinkel said. In addition to OKs from the city and Maricopa County, the project will need approval from the Arizona Corporation Commission and Department of Environmental Quality.

The Ocotillo site, on the northwestern corner of University and McClintock drives, also houses a solar-power plant, switchyard and an area leased for solar testing, all of which will remain amid the upgrades.

The tall generators will be removed after the new ones come online in 2018. The old generators can burn oil or natural gas, although APS almost never uses oil anymore because of the emissions.

APS will maintain two smaller “simple-cycle” generators at Ocotillo that were built in the 1970s and add five larger ones. Simple-cycle gas plants burn natural gas and force hot air through a turbine to make electricity, somewhat akin to giant jet engines.

The new units use a fraction of the water required to make electricity with the steam generators, Dinkel said.

The new units not only will generate more electricity, which APS needs to replace expiring contracts to buy power from other utilities, but also will allow the company to respond faster to increases in power demand.

The two older units run about 10 percent of the year. They are troublesome because replacement parts are difficult to find, and the units take six hours or more to start up. That means APS must fire up the generators at 2 a.m. in the winter to meet peak electricity demand at 8 a.m. on cold mornings. They have to start before noon in the summer to meet peak demand at dusk.

The new units will be able start up in about 51/2 minutes and be at full power in 10 minutes.

That is important not only to respond when other power plants experience interruptions, but also to match the variable output of solar and other renewable-energy sources being placed on the grid.

APS officials said that they have examined other proposals to meet the company’s increasing power demands and that increasing the capacity at Ocotillo is the best option.

Salt River Project faced a similar situation in the early 2000s when it negotiated to expand the Santan Generating Station in Gilbert.

Nearby residents bitterly fought SRP’s $500 million plan to increase the capacity of the plant from 300 megawatts to more than 1,000. The Ocotillo expansion is smaller and, unlike Santan, will make the plant less visible once complete.

Both projects, however, involve weighing the benefits of building power plants near the people who use them or building them in rural areas with miles of transmission lines and substations to get the power to the city.

Building power plants in or near the metro area also avoids the electricity that is lost in long transmission lines.

Increasing power demand

APS generally relies on power plants outside metro Phoenix, but utility officials said the power grid is much more reliable with some generation inside the urban area that they own and can control without calling upon merchant power plants to purchase electricity when they need it most.

“We need some (generation) close to where people consume power,” Dinkel said. “Ocotillo is the only generation we have on the east side of the Valley. We’ve studied this with the SRP system. We are joined at the hip with them.”

APS is not seeing customer demand grow as fast as during the early 2000s, but it also must replace some contracts for power from other utilities that expire in coming years.

The Ocotillo addition will not be as visible as the current structure, but the newer generators won’t be much quieter than the existing facility, Dinkel said. People nearby may hear them less because they will be to the west of the property, farther from the property boundary than the current generators, he said.

APS officials said they have talked with ASU and city officials and soon will begin notifying the public about their plans.

“The city of Tempe is excited about this, as they should be, with the increased construction jobs there,” Dinkel said.

Tempe Councilman Kolby Granville, who was recently briefed on the project, said he will reserve final judgment on the new plant until he sees the completed plans. But he sees few drawbacks to the early proposal.

“My understanding is it’s more power with less pollution and smaller stacks that look less ugly. I really don’t see any downside,” he said.

Though Gilbert residents fought SRP’s Santan project, Granville believes the Tempe plant will be embraced because it is expected to be less of an eyesore.

“My hunch is this is going to go as smooth as these things can,” he said. “The thing that they’re removing looks like something out of a post-apocalyptic ‘Mad Max’ movie. And the thing that they are adding looks like a modern power plant.”

Granville does not believe APS will garner any city incentives for the project.

The completed plant is expected to generate increased property taxes for the city and state because of higher valuation.

The Ocotillo plant pays about $600,000 in property taxes annually, which will increase to $8 million after five years, raising revenue for the city and state, according to APS.

But Granville said revenue is not the only factor the council considers when deciding whether to support projects that will drastically change the face of the city.

“You weigh impact on the surrounding community,” he said. “You weigh impact to the city in the way of increased revenue and the quality of life. ... Those are all things that are not 12 months of construction jobs. Those are things that affect people for 30, 50 years into the future.”

Community outreach will be a critical component to gaining the public’s trust and support, he said.

Natural gas a key fuel

While APS is continuing to add solar power and other renewable energy to its supply, natural gas will remain an important power source, Dinkel said.

“We have a better balanced portfolio than most utilities with nuclear, gas, coal, renewables and energy efficiency,” Dinkel said. “Balance comes at a price. You are never optimal for one resource at a moment. You manage your risk over time.”

Tim James, a senior sustainability scientist at the ASU School of Sustainability and a professor at ASU’s W.P. Carey School of Business, said that APS, SRP and other utilities are turning to natural gas because it is safe.

“It’s just cheaper, basically,” he said. “There is not much regulatory risk with natural gas.”

The cost is important because any expense the utility experiences is passed on to customers through their electric bills.

James compared building gas plants to the controversy over the Navajo Generating Station, a coal-fired plant near Page, which is facing more than $1 billion in upgrades to comply with U.S. Environmental Protection Agency anti-pollution requirements. Natural-gas plants are nowhere near as risky, James said.

“It just makes the most sense,” he said.

Utilities can continue to add renewable power such as solar, but solar still has the major shortcoming of not being able to store electricity for use when the sun goes down, James said. Solar-thermal power plants such as the Solana Generating Station near Gila Bend, which produces power after dark by storing heat in molten salt, are too expensive to rely on for all of APS’ energy, he said.

“Solana is a clever facility but more expensive than traditional methods of generation would be,” he said.

He acknowledged that residents complained about the expansion of the Santan plant.

“But you don’t hear anything about it now, do you?” he said. “There are tons of (gas plants) all over the Valley.”

APS has another gas plant in the West Valley, and SRP has another in Tempe.

Dinkel said APS continues to monitor concerns over natural-gas production and the controversy over hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, the intentional breaking up of the rock around gas wells to produce more fuel.

“There is risk with every single technology,” Dinkel said. “There is no purely, totally safe technology. Clean-coal technologies are not ready. We don’t want to be building new coal. Nuclear is not ready. We are not ready to build new nuclear from a cost perspective and permitting. Solar is important to our portfolio but can’t do everything. Gas has to be the filler right now.”

Even if natural-gas prices have shown short-term volatility, projections are for the fuel to see stable prices in the long term, he said. APS also has a fuel-hedging program to limit the company’s exposure to price fluctuations.

“There is no economic way of working around gas anytime soon,” he said.

[combusean]

I had always hoped that that power plant would be dismantled in some years and APS would vacate the property leaving a massive redevelopment site, but it looks that site will be a power plant forever. Oh well. I always liked the stacks anyways. Would have loved to get a tour of it.

[Arquitect]

I had always hoped that that power plant would be dismantled in some years and APS would vacate the property leaving a massive redevelopment site, but it looks that site will be a power plant forever. Oh well. I always liked the stacks anyways. Would have loved to get a tour of it.

I got to tour it once, and it was really interesting. Being up in the catwalks at the top is vertigo inducing.

[Spitfiredude]

Those plants are god ugly ...

[TempeSilverFox]

I had always hoped that that power plant would be dismantled in some years and APS would vacate the property leaving a massive redevelopment site, but it looks that site will be a power plant forever. Oh well.

I share your feeling on this one. I was so hoping when I first scanned the top of that article that it was going to say that APS was leaving town lol. More than the power plant though- I wish there was some way they could underground those hideous high-tension lines that run through Papago Park, along Town Lake- then across the lake to downtown Tempe. I know it will never happen but dear god they are SO distracting and ugly. But I guess having electricity is a nice feature as well lol.

[rocksteady]

I share your feeling on this one. I was so hoping when I first scanned the top of that article that it was going to say that APS was leaving town lol. More than the power plant though- I wish there was some way they could underground those hideous high-tension lines that run through Papago Park, along Town Lake- then across the lake to downtown Tempe. I know it will never happen but dear god they are SO distracting and ugly. But I guess having electricity is a nice feature as well lol. I had the exact same thoughts and hopes. That land is prime for development and burying those power lines would not only clean up the view but likely allow for more height on the north shore of the lake. Awww, one can dream.

[Arquitect]

I had the exact same thoughts and hopes. That land is prime for development and burying those power lines would not only clean up the view but likely allow for more height on the north shore of the lake. Awww, one can dream.

I think everyone, including the city of Tempe, would love to see APS leave. Unfortunately, APS will never do it. Between the two power companies, I really feel like APS is the most regressive. What bugs me about the Ocotillo plant, is that slowly they have started to dismantle their solar power infrastructure (it was mostly an experimental facility testing new technologies), and just keeping the larger plant. So not only are we going to keep a huge part of the city undeveloped, but also reduce what little positive assets it showed.

[rocksteady]

I think everyone, including the city of Tempe, would love to see APS leave. Unfortunately, APS will never do it. Between the two power companies, I really feel like APS is the most regressive. What bugs me about the Ocotillo plant, is that slowly they have started to dismantle their solar power infrastructure (it was mostly an experimental facility testing new technologies), and just keeping the larger plant. So not only are we going to keep a huge part of the city undeveloped, but also reduce what little positive assets it showed. I noticed that the other day when I drove by and wondered what happened to them. Then I read this article and they made it sound like solar was still a big part of it so I assumed maybe they were relocated on the site out of view. Sad they got ride of them.

[Arquitect]

I noticed that the other day when I drove by and wondered what happened to them. Then I read this article and they made it sound like solar was still a big part of it so I assumed maybe they were relocated on the site out of view. Sad they got ride of them.

Most of the solar technology that they had on the site was pretty outdated; it was installed several decades ago when the company was actually really looking at how viable going into the solar market could be. So it makes sense that they would get rid of them, but what does make me sad is that they aren't replacing them with newer ones, especially since we have started to see huge advances in the solar energy field.

APS' solar emphasis seems to me like a marketing ploy. They really tout the little they have done, but they are falling way behind other companies such as nrg (who just opened a huge solar installation in the CA & NV border). The whole thing about trying to limit the growth of roof top solar this past year is a prime example.

Fortunately, Tempe isn't really loosing much solar power generation, since ASU has done some really incredible work in that regards.

[rocksteady]

Most of the solar technology that they had on the site was pretty outdated; it was installed several decades ago when the company was actually really looking at how viable going into the solar market could be. So it makes sense that they would get rid of them, but what does make me sad is that they aren't replacing them with newer ones, especially since we have started to see huge advances in the solar energy field.

APS' solar emphasis seems to me like a marketing ploy. They really tout the little they have done, but they are falling way behind other companies such as nrg (who just opened a huge solar installation in the CA & NV border). The whole thing about trying to limit the growth of roof top solar this past year is a prime example.

Fortunately, Tempe isn't really loosing much solar power generation, since ASU has done some really incredible work in that regards. Do you know if ASU's solar installations are providing power to the overall grid, or just powering ASU facilities? And if it is just ASU facilities, is there any surplus that goes back to the grid? I'm not sure how many units they have now and how much power they are providing.

[Arquitect]

Do you know if ASU's solar installations are providing power to the overall grid, or just powering ASU facilities? And if it is just ASU facilities, is there any surplus that goes back to the grid? I'm not sure how many units they have now and how much power they are providing.

The way the systems have been set up, it is a bit confusing. With the first few rooftop projects, ASU made the investment and set up, and would use the power. Then, they started a deal to sell the power back to APS. Now it is really tricky, since ASU basically leases the space for different companies to install the solar panels, and then they sell it to APS. What I am not sure of is if ASU gets the power first, and then sell any excess, or if they buy it back from APS at a discount. So technically speaking, some of that power does go back into the grid. But even combining all of the solar installations in campus, we are looking right now at ASU generating about 40% of their peak-power needs through that source. So, at their peak, ASU still consumes more than they generate (Still quite impressive for such a huge campus). I don't think ASU will ever be able to rely 100% on solar, but maybe with their continued research into bio-fuels such as algae, they could get to the point where they could be near self-sustaining.

[rocksteady]

The way the systems have been set up, it is a bit confusing. With the first few rooftop projects, ASU made the investment and set up, and would use the power. Then, they started a deal to sell the power back to APS. Now it is really tricky, since ASU basically leases the space for different companies to install the solar panels, and then they sell it to APS. What I am not sure of is if ASU gets the power first, and then sell any excess, or if they buy it back from APS at a discount. So technically speaking, some of that power does go back into the grid. But even combining all of the solar installations in campus, we are looking right now at ASU generating about 40% of their peak-power needs through that source. So, at their peak, ASU still consumes more than they generate (Still quite impressive for such a huge campus). I don't think ASU will ever be able to rely 100% on solar, but maybe with their continued research into bio-fuels such as algae, they could get to the point where they could be near self-sustaining. Thanks for clarifying, you explained it clear enough for me. :) And it is still quite an impressive chunk of power they get from solar. I wonder if that's the highest in the nation for such a major university?

[Arquitect]

Thanks for clarifying, you explained it clear enough for me. :) And it is still quite an impressive chunk of power they get from solar. I wonder if that's the highest in the nation for such a major university?

I do believe that they produce more power than any other US university, I'm not sure about how that would translate into % of power used compared to power generated, since a much smaller school could have a higher % without generating as much.

If you are interested in seeing more about ASU's power generation in respect to their usage, they have this awesome website that tracks all of that.

http://cm.asu.edu/#

[rocksteady]

I do believe that they produce more power than any other US university, I'm not sure about how that would translate into % of power used compared to power generated, since a much smaller school could have a higher % without generating as much.

If you are interested in seeing more about ASU's power generation in respect to their usage, they have this awesome website that tracks all of that.

http://cm.asu.edu/# Great website! Thank you! Very cool

[MegaBass]

Megabass: do you know the plans for phase 2 of Block 12? Any chance you'd Tweet back and ask? Hoping a private residential midrise is a part of it to really finalize the integration of the city with the campus.

I haven't seen anything since this post (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=5746075&postcount=3116).

I wouldn't be surprised if it's another residential hall and more Aramark controlled dining options.

[Jjs5056]

I haven't seen anything since this post (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=5746075&postcount=3116).

I wouldn't be surprised if it's another residential hall and more Aramark controlled dining options.

Ah, thanks. A wine/coffee bar was mentioned for the Commons and with Postino and hopefully a restaurant of similar stature coming on board at the annex, I was hoping that a private residential and/or office component would be incorporated.

The very first RFP but out for Block 12 around 2002 encouraged mixed use residential and office towers that attracted biomedical professionals. I think that's s much more sounder strategy, given how much of College is already ASu space.

[MegaBass]

http://www.azenergyfuture.com/getmedia/1b1604d9-cb04-4559-9096-dc53d7666edb/ModernizedOcotillo_ViewfromUniversityDrive.png/?width=728&height=460&ext=.png

Ocotillo Modernization (http://www.azenergyfuture.com/ocotillo/)

[combusean]

Wow. Even gone would be those giant tanks (reservoirs?) that bear the logos in the satellite photos. Times, they are a changin'.

[TempeSilverFox]

Liberty Center continues to grow. The picture in the article appears to show new structures that will be built EAST of Priest, both to the north and the south of Rio Salado Parkway. I had heard that the City of Tempe planned to vacate their facility that sits on the north-east corner or Priest and Rio Salado- so I guess this new project will take its place. I still wonder what will end up at the SE corner? Even this picture doesn't show anything in that spot- with the only new structure indicated to be just east of where First Street makes its little bend away from Rio Salado...

http://azbex.com/liberty-to-build-215ksf-warehouse-at-liberty-center/

Liberty to Build 215KSF Warehouse at Liberty Center
Posted by Rachel on Feb 18th, 2014 // No Comment
By Eric Jay Toll for Arizona Builder’s Exchange
Liberty Property Trust walked from the Tempe Development Review Commission meeting February 11 with approval for the second building in Liberty Center at Rio Salado. The 215KSF warehouse building, 1850 W. Rio Salado Pkwy., west of Priest Drive, is part of the joint venture development between Liberty and the city of Tempe.

Rendering Credit: RSP Architects
Deutsch Architecture Group is the designer of the warehouse and the remainder of the six office buildings, and one warehouse employment center. The warehouse is at the far western end of the center nestled between a flood control berm on the Salt River, the East Valley Bus Operations Center and a Federal Aviation Administration Doppler VHF Omni-directional Range Tactical Air Controller (DVORTAC), which is used by aircraft flying to and from Sky Harbor International Airport. The DVORTAC separates the warehouse from the remaining six office buildings.
There is no tenant named for the warehouse, and Tempe assumes that the TI will allocate about 20 percent for office space and the balance for the warehouse. The warehouse is designed with glazing and texture in the tilt-up concrete panels to accommodate a main entrance at either the center of the building or either corner, depending on tenant needs. The color bands integrated into the concrete are complementary to the design scheme for the entire business center.
Building I, a 100KSF Class A office complex, is under construction with Wespac Construction Inc. as the GC. AZBEX was unable to confirm on Monday whether the contractor is also building the warehouse. Look for an Arizona Projects update on Friday.

[TempeSilverFox]

Does anyone else think that a full-sized grocery store would fit or make sense at the SE corner of Priest and Rio Salado? Seems like a busy enough intersection...

[PHXFlyer11]

Liberty Center continues to grow. The picture in the article appears to show new structures that will be built EAST of Priest, both to the north and the south of Rio Salado Parkway. I had heard that the City of Tempe planned to vacate their facility that sits on the north-east corner or Priest and Rio Salado- so I guess this new project will take its place. I still wonder what will end up at the SE corner? Even this picture doesn't show anything in that spot- with the only new structure indicated to be just east of where First Street makes its little bend away from Rio Salado...

http://azbex.com/liberty-to-build-215ksf-warehouse-at-liberty-center/

Liberty to Build 215KSF Warehouse at Liberty Center
Posted by Rachel on Feb 18th, 2014 // No Comment
By Eric Jay Toll for Arizona Builder’s Exchange
Liberty Property Trust walked from the Tempe Development Review Commission meeting February 11 with approval for the second building in Liberty Center at Rio Salado. The 215KSF warehouse building, 1850 W. Rio Salado Pkwy., west of Priest Drive, is part of the joint venture development between Liberty and the city of Tempe.

Rendering Credit: RSP Architects
Deutsch Architecture Group is the designer of the warehouse and the remainder of the six office buildings, and one warehouse employment center. The warehouse is at the far western end of the center nestled between a flood control berm on the Salt River, the East Valley Bus Operations Center and a Federal Aviation Administration Doppler VHF Omni-directional Range Tactical Air Controller (DVORTAC), which is used by aircraft flying to and from Sky Harbor International Airport. The DVORTAC separates the warehouse from the remaining six office buildings.
There is no tenant named for the warehouse, and Tempe assumes that the TI will allocate about 20 percent for office space and the balance for the warehouse. The warehouse is designed with glazing and texture in the tilt-up concrete panels to accommodate a main entrance at either the center of the building or either corner, depending on tenant needs. The color bands integrated into the concrete are complementary to the design scheme for the entire business center.
Building I, a 100KSF Class A office complex, is under construction with Wespac Construction Inc. as the GC. AZBEX was unable to confirm on Monday whether the contractor is also building the warehouse. Look for an Arizona Projects update on Friday.

These all 1-2 stories? I know the airport limits the height potential, but I would like to see 4 stories on these. Oh well.

[MegaBass]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeDNl-uCQAEajDq.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeDLKDKCUAAE-mt.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeDRYSpCEAArjTN.jpg

Photos of SDS north upper deck seat removal last month. h/t ASUDevils.com (https://twitter.com/ASUDevilscom/media)

[TempeSilverFox]

These all 1-2 stories? I know the airport limits the height potential, but I would like to see 4 stories on these. Oh well.

Yeah, from what I've seen so far it appears that all the buildings are either 1 or 2 stories. This project is so NON urban, it's just a big suburban office park project. A bit disappointing, but then again- as you stated, it's right by the airport, so they can only build so high. Still, an urban feeling can still be accomplished by grouping buildings, parking and functions in a way that promote walkability and activity. Bummer.

[rocksteady]

Yeah, from what I've seen so far it appears that all the buildings are either 1 or 2 stories. This project is so NON urban, it's just a big suburban office park project. A bit disappointing, but then again- as you stated, it's right by the airport, so they can only build so high. Still, an urban feeling can still be accomplished by grouping buildings, parking and functions in a way that promote walkability and activity. Bummer. Agreed. Everything seems so spread out and such a waste of great real-estate. I had always envisioned that corner to be a nice, welcoming "entrance" to an urbanized Rio Salado neighborhood.

[mdpx]

Mixed-Use Plans for Tempe Land
By Kristian Seemeyer | Phoenix

PHOENIX—PCCP, LLC announces it has provided a senior loan to Alberta Development Partners to acquire and entitle a 1.86-acre mixed-use development land site in Tempe. The site is located on the northwest corner of University Drive and Ash Avenue within the Mill Avenue District of Downtown Tempe.

Alberta Development Partners has plans to entitle the site for 40,000-square-feet of ground floor retail and 187 high-rise apartments units. With a shortage of grocery retailers in downtown Tempe, Alberta is seeking a grocery tenant for the retail portion of the space. Currently, the nearest grocer is a Safeway two miles away.

“Both Alberta and PCCP look forward to further contributing to the vibrant Mill Avenue District and delivering the proposed mixed-use project to the market,” said Philip Russick, principal with PCCP. “There is a pent up demand in the area for the product they are seeking to entitle and we feel this will be an ideal fit for the area.”

The $5.7 million senior loan will help develop the well-located parcel which is within walking distance to all of the Mill Avenue District amenities including 75 restaurants, shops, nightlife spots, bar and grill establishments, and Arizona State University.


I'm not sure if this has been reported before. Also find it interesting considering the former Mosaic site down the street wants to incorporate a Whole Foods. Things are certainly booming in Tempe.

[PHXFlyer11]

Mixed-Use Plans for Tempe Land
By Kristian Seemeyer | Phoenix

PHOENIX—PCCP, LLC announces it has provided a senior loan to Alberta Development Partners to acquire and entitle a 1.86-acre mixed-use development land site in Tempe. The site is located on the northwest corner of University Drive and Ash Avenue within the Mill Avenue District of Downtown Tempe.

Alberta Development Partners has plans to entitle the site for 40,000-square-feet of ground floor retail and 187 high-rise apartments units. With a shortage of grocery retailers in downtown Tempe, Alberta is seeking a grocery tenant for the retail portion of the space. Currently, the nearest grocer is a Safeway two miles away.

“Both Alberta and PCCP look forward to further contributing to the vibrant Mill Avenue District and delivering the proposed mixed-use project to the market,” said Philip Russick, principal with PCCP. “There is a pent up demand in the area for the product they are seeking to entitle and we feel this will be an ideal fit for the area.”

The $5.7 million senior loan will help develop the well-located parcel which is within walking distance to all of the Mill Avenue District amenities including 75 restaurants, shops, nightlife spots, bar and grill establishments, and Arizona State University.


I'm not sure if this has been reported before. Also find it interesting considering the former Mosaic site down the street wants to incorporate a Whole Foods. Things are certainly booming in Tempe.

Indeed this was announced last week, but the part about 187 units I believe is news. Just thinking here... but you figure MAYBE 10 units per floor, you include the ground floor retail and I think this puppy is at least 20 stories! That is great news!

[PHXFlyer11]

I drove by Northshore yesterday and noticed that where there once was the trailer advertising for lakefront medical offices, now has a trailer that says "built to suit" or something to that effect.

It seems like that 10 story project will wait to break ground until a tenant can be secured.

[rocksteady]

It was so exciting driving in to work this morning and seeing FIVE cranes along the south side of the lake. Can't wait for some of these other projects to get off the ground to see a lot more. :)

[Spitfiredude]

http://www.tempe.gov/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=23304'

Opinions?

90' maximum height, freeway is 25'. 3-4-5 story buildings in one complex. Multi story parking garage covered with facade. Looks like with planned 8 reps present at the meeting, the team is serious about development. THIS IS NOT THE SITE OF HAYDEN HARBOR, but right next to the site. Some retail facing College Ave. Infinity pool facing the lake. Developer says they will not rent to anyone under 21.

I think the design hits the spot. I think it can be a successful project. I had hoped for something in the 100-150' range. Considering this is not a part of the Hayden Harbor development, I think it would look fine once that development is built. I am kind of neutral on this project. I am happy they are putting a facade on the parking garage though. I don't know what it can be compared to. I'm assuming maybe North shore is this high? 65' above freeway isn't too bad. The power lines are around 110', so nearly as tall as those.

[Spitfiredude]

Tempe - A site for a $50+ million student housing project near Arizona State University in Tempe has been sold to a company formed by Blue Vista Capital Management in Chicago, Ill. (Peter Stelian, CEO). Blue Atlantic Tempe LLC (Blue Vista entity) paid $6.5 million to acquire the 3.56-acre site, which is just east of ASU at the northwest corner of Lemon Street and Terrace Road. The seller was Oasis Indian Bend LLC, a company formed by IMH Financial Corp. in Scottsdale (Will Meris, pres.). In August 2013, BREW reported IMH forming a joint venture with Titan Investments LLC in Denver, Colo. to develop a 220-unit/600-bed student housing complex on the parcel. IMH took over ownership of the site after foreclosing on the previous owner of the land and was looking for an equity partner to develop the project. In stepped Blue Vista Capital Management, which acquired the land outright and will develop the property through a student housing investment fund it manages. Peak Campus Cos. in Atlanta, Ga., the affiliate of Blue Vista Capital Management, will now develop and manage the Tempe project. Titan Investments will no longer have an equity position in the development, but the company will serve as a consultant to the new owner. Design plans from Ayers Saint Gross in Tempe are being tweaked a bit, but the development will stay pretty much as was approved by the City of Tempe. Plans still call for 600 beds, but there will be fewer total units at 214. The student housing complex will be comprised of three, five-story and two, six-story structures and a six-level parking garage with 400 spaces. There will also be 8,044 sq. ft. of ground level retail space. The one-, two-, three- and four-bedroom units will range from 607 sq. ft. to 1,628 sq. ft. The fully furnished units will be part of a resort-style development that will have a wide variety of amenities, including retail and restaurants, a theater, fitness club and game room. Monthly rental rates still to be determined. No word on development cost, but the amount targeted by the IMH Financial/Titan venture was $55 million. Sources say the new developer will spend at least that much and is close to finalizing the construction loan. Construction is scheduled to begin this quarter with completion anticipated by July of 2015. Hardison Downey Construction Inc. in Phoenix to serve as contractor. Peak Campus Development LLC will be the developer and Peak Campus Management LLC will manage the Tempe project. Peak Campus currently manages 29,000+ beds in 56 assets located across the U.S. that are valued at $1.8 billion. The student housing project in Tempe will be the first for Peak Campus in Arizona. The Blue Vista affiliate is likely to hold the property for investment after construction and lease up. Blue Vista Capital Management manages Blue Vista Sponsor Equity Fund I, II, III and Blue Vista Student Housing. To date, Blue Vista Capital Management has participated in direct investments and joint ventures representing more than $5.25 billion in total capitalization

~Brewaz.com

Ground retail added. Same development, new developers. Say that construction will start in the next 2 months...we'll see..

[Arquitect]

http://www.tempe.gov/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=23304'

Opinions?

90' maximum height, freeway is 25'. 3-4-5 story buildings in one complex. Multi story parking garage covered with facade. Looks like with planned 8 reps present at the meeting, the team is serious about development. THIS IS NOT THE SITE OF HAYDEN HARBOR, but right next to the site. Some retail facing College Ave. Infinity pool facing the lake. Developer says they will not rent to anyone under 21.

I think the design hits the spot. I think it can be a successful project. I had hoped for something in the 100-150' range. Considering this is not a part of the Hayden Harbor development, I think it would look fine once that development is built. I am kind of neutral on this project. I am happy they are putting a facade on the parking garage though. I don't know what it can be compared to. I'm assuming maybe North shore is this high? 65' above freeway isn't too bad. The power lines are around 110', so nearly as tall as those.

I like it, sure, a little more height would be nice, but it would be great to see the area around the Marina develop. As you said, they conceal the parking lot it a nice way, and the amount of units seems good.

[PHXFlyer11]

I like it, sure, a little more height would be nice, but it would be great to see the area around the Marina develop. As you said, they conceal the parking lot it a nice way, and the amount of units seems good.

I agree on the design being pretty cool. I do wish it was more like 8-9 stories, but I guess I am OK with this project.

Great news on Lemon and Terrace! I think this was the yellow and white building plans we saw. I REALLY like those.

Tempe is ONFIRE! But why is nobody building condos? You'd think just once or twice there'd be a condo building instead of apartments! Maybe we just have to wait until Marina Heights is nearing completion.

[Arquitect]

I agree on the design being pretty cool. I do wish it was more like 8-9 stories, but I guess I am OK with this project.

Great news on Lemon and Terrace! I think this was the yellow and white building plans we saw. I REALLY like those.

Tempe is ONFIRE! But why is nobody building condos? You'd think just once or twice there'd be a condo building instead of apartments! Maybe we just have to wait until Marina Heights is nearing completion.

Mostly because it is hard to get funding for condos right now. It will definitely change though. As the empty condos around downtown begin to fill up, there will be some projects popping up.

[rocksteady]

Bring on more cranes! I think this project would look great if the former Hayden Harbor/Onyx site gets developed with the original heights that were proposed. At this point I just want the shores developed.

How is it the the former Onyx tower was able to have so much height right next door but this project and the office complex getting built on the other side of Grigio seems to be concerned about the power lines and flight path? Or am I just reading peoples assumptions on the limited heights of those buildings?

[DevilsRider]

Bring on more cranes! I think this project would look great if the former Hayden Harbor/Onyx site gets developed with the original heights that were proposed. At this point I just want the shores developed.

How is it the the former Onyx tower was able to have so much height right next door but this project and the office complex getting built on the other side of Grigio seems to be concerned about the power lines and flight path? Or am I just reading peoples assumptions on the limited heights of those buildings?

The power lines are basically adjacent to the freeway, on the north side of the properties on the north side of the lake. So proposals like Onyx, which would go south of the powerlines, don't have to worry about them. Also why this current proposal is shorter beneath the powerlines than as it approaches the lakefront :tup:

[rocksteady]

The power lines are basically adjacent to the freeway, on the north side of the properties on the north side of the lake. So proposals like Onyx, which would go south of the powerlines, don't have to worry about them. Also why this current proposal is shorter beneath the powerlines than as it approaches the lakefront :tup: That's what I figured. Thanks for confirming. Cursed power lines and flight path.

[MegaBass]

Aztec Smurf - Tempe's Largest Mural (Vimeo) (http://vimeo.com/84853003)

The largest mural in Tempe is now being created by muralist and local artist, Aztec Smurf (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Aztec-Smurf/175395825830971).
Smurf is painting a giant Gila Monster, a lizard native to the valley, across a 50 x 55 ft. wall of The Mark (http://www.themarktempe.com/), an apartment complex on the corner of Lemon St. and Terrace Rd. As a local who grew up in Tempe and attended ASU before becoming a full-time artist, Smurf was thrilled to be selected out of many other artists to work on the project. The entire mural is being painted with regular paint and paintbrushes, and will be covered with a clear coat to be better protected from the sun.
The apartment complex was recently acquired by Sundance Bay, a Utah based company. This mural is the first of many improvements promised at The Mark.

[Arquitect]

Aztec Smurf - Tempe's Largest Mural (Vimeo) (http://vimeo.com/84853003)

I recently saw the remodel they have done to that place. They didn't change much, mostly added some vibrant colors and this mural, but it looks a lot better. It will compliment the Lemon Street project that will be built next door really nicely.

[Jjs5056]

http://www.tempe.gov/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=23304'

Opinions?

90' maximum height, freeway is 25'. 3-4-5 story buildings in one complex. Multi story parking garage covered with facade. Looks like with planned 8 reps present at the meeting, the team is serious about development. THIS IS NOT THE SITE OF HAYDEN HARBOR, but right next to the site. Some retail facing College Ave. Infinity pool facing the lake. Developer says they will not rent to anyone under 21.

I think the design hits the spot. I think it can be a successful project. I had hoped for something in the 100-150' range. Considering this is not a part of the Hayden Harbor development, I think it would look fine once that development is built. I am kind of neutral on this project. I am happy they are putting a facade on the parking garage though. I don't know what it can be compared to. I'm assuming maybe North shore is this high? 65' above freeway isn't too bad. The power lines are around 110', so nearly as tall as those.

I think this is a fantastic project and really like the attitude of the developer. You can tell they really thought about every single piece of the property and surroundings when designing it, which is refreshing when so many projects seem to be cut and paste - this project took a challenging site and turned it into what should be a fantastic gateway/transition from the lake, marina, and pathway into the shore developments.

It almost makes me wish that the lakefront sites were all smaller, so developers didn't have acres of land to construct the massive master-planned projects that end up cold and detached from pedestrians on both sides, and with retail added only to serve those living/working within the site, rather than serving the lake's visitors.

I just love how the retail opens up right to the path and how the developer envisions the retail being businesses that complement the lake. I also love how the backhanded shade being thrown at the owner of Hayden Harbor throughout. I think his statement on the importance of this project, being on a small site with so many obstacles with the potential to be forgotten once larger developments fill in, to be spot on.

Lastly, you can tell they would've loved to have had more height, but were limited by the power lines, and surrounding infrastructure.

Really hope this gets built!

[TempeSilverFox]

By any chance- are any of you subscribers to the Phoenix Business Journal? There is an article there - I think more of an op piece- but it's about the Whole Foods / Ash and University site. It's under the subscriber only area of their website.
Here is what I was allowed to read - not being a subscriber:

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/print-edition/2014/02/21/why-whole-foods-would-be-a-good-fit.html

Why Whole Foods would be a good fit for Tempe high-rise

Kristena Hansen
Reporter-
Phoenix Business Journal
Email | LinkedIn | Twitter | Google+
Last week, I reported that a Denver developer paid $6.1 million for less than 2 acres in the heart of downtown Tempe, where it plans to erect an apartment tower that will include a ground-level grocery store. The estimated development cost is $80 million to $100 million.
Blueprints are similar to a project previously planned for the site at the northwest corner of University Drive and Ash Avenue that was to include a Whole Foods. That project failed after the bankruptcy of its lender, Mortgages Ltd., which now is defunct.
Sources close to the new deal tell me Whole Foods ...

And that's as far as I can go. Would love to see the rest of the article if any of you are able to kindly post it :)

[mdpx]

Why Whole Foods would be a good fit for Tempe high-rise

by Kristena Hansen

Last week, I reported that a Denver developer paid $6.1 million for less than 2 acres in the heart of downtown Tempe, where it plans to erect an apartment tower that will include a ground-level grocery store. The estimated development cost is $80 million to $100 million.

Blueprints are similar to a project previously planned for the site at the northwest corner of University Drive and Ash Avenue that was to include a Whole Foods. That project failed after the bankruptcy of its lender, Mortgages Ltd., which now is defunct.

Sources close to the new deal tell me Whole Foods still is in the works via a letter of intent. The developer, Alberta Development Partners LLC, declined to name the grocer, and Whole Foods representatives say there is “nothing on our dockets for now with regard to a Tempe site.”

Local retail expert Jeff Green said a grocery store would be a major bonus for the Mill Avenue area, which does not have one. Whole Foods, he said, is the absolute best pick.

“I actually think that Whole Foods is perfect for that market,” Green said. “You wouldn’t think students would be a big draw for Whole Foods, but they are.”

Students — or, rather, their parents — usually are flush with disposable income, he said. The grocer’s array of prepared meals also appeals to the younger consumer.

The area’s mix of college faculty and thousands of white-collar workers also are plausible Whole Foods shoppers, he said.Don Provost, founding principal of Alberta Development, declined to say how large the retail space would be or whether it would be occupied entirely by a grocer.

Green said Whole Foods initially built stores in the 35,000-square-foot range, but nearly doubled that size in the years leading up to the recession. Recently the grocery chain has been downsizing back to the 35,000-square-foot format in an effort to drive up its sales per square foot. The Tempe site in question could definitely support a store of that smaller size, he said.

Kristena Hansen covers residential and commercial real estate.

[RichTempe]

It was so exciting driving in to work this morning and seeing FIVE cranes along the south side of the lake. Can't wait for some of these other projects to get off the ground to see a lot more. :)


Where is the 5th crane? I know of the 3 at Marina Heights and the one at Argo, but wasn't aware of a 5th one. Or are you referring to one that will be rising soon?

[PHXFlyer11]

Where is the 5th crane? I know of the 3 at Marina Heights and the one at Argo, but wasn't aware of a 5th one. Or are you referring to one that will be rising soon?

Guessing rocksteady was referring to the fourth crane at Marina Heights that is not of the tower variety.

[TempeSilverFox]

Why Whole Foods would be a good fit for Tempe high-rise



Last week, I reported that a Denver developer paid $6.1 million for less than 2 acres in the heart of downtown Tempe, where it plans to erect an apartment tower that will include a ground-level grocery store. The estimated development cost is $80 million to $100 million.

Blueprints are similar to a project previously planned for the site at the northwest corner of University Drive and Ash Avenue that was to include a Whole Foods. That project failed after the bankruptcy of its lender, Mortgages Ltd., which now is defunct.

Sources close to the new deal tell me Whole Foods still is in the works via a letter of intent. The developer, Alberta Development Partners LLC, declined to name the grocer, and Whole Foods representatives say there is “nothing on our dockets for now with regard to a Tempe site.”

Local retail expert Jeff Green said a grocery store would be a major bonus for the Mill Avenue area, which does not have one. Whole Foods, he said, is the absolute best pick.

“I actually think that Whole Foods is perfect for that market,” Green said. “You wouldn’t think students would be a big draw for Whole Foods, but they are.”

Students — or, rather, their parents — usually are flush with disposable income, he said. The grocer’s array of prepared meals also appeals to the younger consumer.

The area’s mix of college faculty and thousands of white-collar workers also are plausible Whole Foods shoppers, he said.Don Provost, founding principal of Alberta Development, declined to say how large the retail space would be or whether it would be occupied entirely by a grocer.

Green said Whole Foods initially built stores in the 35,000-square-foot range, but nearly doubled that size in the years leading up to the recession. Recently the grocery chain has been downsizing back to the 35,000-square-foot format in an effort to drive up its sales per square foot. The Tempe site in question could definitely support a store of that smaller size, he said.

Kristena Hansen covers residential and commercial real estate.

You ROCK MDPX!!!! Thank you so much!!! :tup:

[KevininPhx]

Guessing rocksteady was referring to the fourth crane at Marina Heights that is not of the tower variety.


There's a 5th crane close by at the apts by TCA.

[ciweiss]

Nice to see Tempe make a national list:

http://www.cbsnews.com/media/10-skyline-changing-buildings-under-construction-this-year/

I do wish after I look at the finished project they would have had a lawn/park from the stadium to the lake for tailgating etc. And then had Rio Salado go underneath it. It would have been cool to see the stadium through the State Farm development from the freeway.

[Arquitect]

Nice to see Tempe make a national list:

http://www.cbsnews.com/media/10-skyline-changing-buildings-under-construction-this-year/

I do wish after I look at the finished project they would have had a lawn/park from the stadium to the lake for tailgating etc. And then had Rio Salado go underneath it. It would have been cool to see the stadium through the State Farm development from the freeway.

Unfortunately the article is very poorly written, how dare they confuse ASU with that horrible community college in Tucson!

[ciweiss]

Unfortunately the article is very poorly written, how dare they confuse ASU with that horrible community college in Tucson!

That is true. And the mention that this is in Phoenix. Of course CBS like yahoo news I have pretty low expectations....:haha:

[KevininPhx]

That is true. And the mention that this is in Phoenix. Of course CBS like yahoo news I have pretty low expectations....:haha:

That Grand Wilshire in LA is really pissing me off. You stick a stick on a building and suddenly it's the tallest in the West? It's not even the tallest in LA. And the building in SF will be significantly taller at the roof than the Grand Wilshire. And even that Stratosphere to its top is taller. Don't get it.

[MegaBass]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhR3oK5CQAAy-g3.jpg

Ike's Love & Sandwiches (http://ilikeikesplace.com/) (Bay Area based) is coming soon to Brickyard on Mill (h/t Urban Realty (https://twitter.com/UrbanRealty/status/438106596019687424/photo/1))

Man V Food San Francisco Ike's Place (http://youtu.be/2AKrJDf9wLc)

[MegaBass]

College Avenue Streetscape (https://cfo.asu.edu/fdm-college-ave-streetscape)

College Avenue Streetscape will create a dynamic pedestrian plaza and gathering space on College Avenue between 6th Street and 7th Street in Tempe.

In collaboration with the city of Tempe and community stakeholders, the project is planned to energize College Avenue between University Drive and Sun Devil Stadium by transforming College Avenue into a destination for student and civic events. College Avenue Streetscape will serve as a venue for school spirit events, pre- and post-game sports celebrations, art festivals and other community gatherings. The space is envisioned as a front door to Arizona State University, anchored by the new College Avenue Commons building on the west, and the restaurants at the newly-renovated ASU Art Annex building and College Avenue Marketplace to the east.

The College Avenue Commons Streetscape project will enable the full closure of the plaza to vehicles, and will encompass the entire city block, providing landscaping, pavers, benches, and a 4,000 square-foot outdoor canopy with seating and tables. The project forwards ASU towards its goals of enhancing local impact and social embeddedness, by embracing the University's cultural, socioeconomic and physical setting.

https://cfo.asu.edu/sites/default/files/fdmbldgs/college-ave-street.png

[PHXFlyer11]

College Avenue Streetscape (https://cfo.asu.edu/fdm-college-ave-streetscape)



https://cfo.asu.edu/sites/default/files/fdmbldgs/college-ave-street.png

That's really the best picture they chose to share? I've seen other renderings that look cool, that one just looks awful. I'm sure it will be better than that, they just chose a poor rendering.

[Spitfiredude]

There is not a fifth tower crane. There is only 1 at Argo, 3 at Marina Heights.

$5 MILLION PRICE TAG!?

Are you kidding me? This thing better be very impressive.

[rocksteady]

Is that not a crane on the west side of Priest and Rio? I was counting that one along with the 3 at Marina Heights and the other at Argo.

[Spitfiredude]

I haven't seen a tower crane west of that intersection, but if your talking crane then yes. I'll double check tomorrow.

Seriously though, does anyone have an opinion on the $5 million price tag for less than an 1/8 of a mile roadway? Even if this includes the remodel of the art annex, I still can't believe it.

[Spitfiredude]

Sites that we can still see 100'+ developments in downtown Tempe (excluding lake):

Southwest corner of Mill Ave/Rio Salado (Monti's site) original plans had 2 300' towers. This site is far from development considering the stall of HFL 3. Although, this would have huge potential for a condo site considering that market revives itself in the next half decade. I like the original concept, it reminds me of the Veer Towers in Vegas (except blue), and those condos look awesome.

Northeast corner of Mill/3rd St. (Mill redevelop site) I see a lot of potential in this site, but I think if Monti's were developed it would be nice to see 4 story town-home residences and offices. Or a boutique hotel redeveloped with the Mill would be VERY cool.

Southeast corner of Mill/3rd St. I think this site is more practical for the town-home idea, or a work/live concept. Probably not a real desirable site.

Northeast corner of Ash Avenue/5th St I think this site isn't very desirable as of now too. I hope we see some real height on this lot. I think its going to end up being two office buildings like US Airways or Gateway in design.

Southeast corner of Mill/7th St This lot has lots of potential. I think it is one we will see development plans with soon. Its going to be in prime location with USA Place opening soon nearby. I can see this as a multi use site.

University Square, I don't think we will see this site developed for a long time, especially with the development of USA Place.

Does anyone know height limitations on these sites. I know its a long shot, but is there potential to see a building taller than W6 T2 (345'). It would be nice to have a super tall building (for the area) (400'+). I think there is some potential in the Mill/5th St area with a couple buildings that could be demolished. Such as the building behind GB and Starbucks (to the West).

Also, this wasn't reported on here, but Tempe is in the running again for Google Fiber. Damn this would be a great tool to drive development. Keeping fingers crossed that we get it.

[PHXFlyer11]

Sites that we can still see 100'+ developments in downtown Tempe (excluding lake):

Southwest corner of Mill Ave/Rio Salado (Monti's site) original plans had 2 300' towers. This site is far from development considering the stall of HFL 3. Although, this would have huge potential for a condo site considering that market revives itself in the next half decade. I like the original concept, it reminds me of the Veer Towers in Vegas (except blue), and those condos look awesome.

Northeast corner of Mill/3rd St. (Mill redevelop site) I see a lot of potential in this site, but I think if Monti's were developed it would be nice to see 4 story town-home residences and offices. Or a boutique hotel redeveloped with the Mill would be VERY cool.

Southeast corner of Mill/3rd St. I think this site is more practical for the town-home idea, or a work/live concept. Probably not a real desirable site.

Northeast corner of Ash Avenue/5th St I think this site isn't very desirable as of now too. I hope we see some real height on this lot. I think its going to end up being two office buildings like US Airways or Gateway in design.

Southeast corner of Mill/7th St This lot has lots of potential. I think it is one we will see development plans with soon. Its going to be in prime location with USA Place opening soon nearby. I can see this as a multi use site.

University Square, I don't think we will see this site developed for a long time, especially with the development of USA Place.

Does anyone know height limitations on these sites. I know its a long shot, but is there potential to see a building taller than W6 T2 (345'). It would be nice to have a super tall building (for the area) (400'+). I think there is some potential in the Mill/5th St area with a couple buildings that could be demolished. Such as the building behind GB and Starbucks (to the West).

Also, this wasn't reported on here, but Tempe is in the running again for Google Fiber. Damn this would be a great tool to drive development. Keeping fingers crossed that we get it.

What about the lots along Farmer? I know they are slated more towards the 5-6 story developments, but I wonder if that could change now that the University & Ash tower will be 20+ stories. I could see that University & Farmer lot having a nice midrise in the 10-12 story range, it is a very nice lot. Any idea who owns it?

Also, I believe the city owns the lots on 5th and Farmer (currently parking lot) and 5th and Ash. I could see them putting out RFPs for developments that include a public parking component in the future.

Just my $.02.

[CrestedSaguaro]

That Grand Wilshire in LA is really pissing me off. You stick a stick on a building and suddenly it's the tallest in the West? It's not even the tallest in LA. And the building in SF will be significantly taller at the roof than the Grand Wilshire. And even that Stratosphere to its top is taller. Don't get it.

Grand Willshire will be along the lines of the Petronis Towers, Taipai 101, about anything built in Dubai or even the Freedom Tower. This is unfortunately the way the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat classifies building height. Spires...yes, antennae...no.

At least U.S. cities are learning how to cheat overall building height like the rest of the world. lol

Back to topic :koko:

[Jjs5056]

That's really the best picture they chose to share? I've seen other renderings that look cool, that one just looks awful. I'm sure it will be better than that, they just chose a poor rendering.

Agreed. And there are plans for additional retail to be built adjacent to this patio, which will help in filling in the street from end to end. I've heard the city is trying to solicit upper scale retail for thse areas.

[nickw252]

Grand Willshire will be along the lines of the Petronis Towers, Taipai 101, about anything built in Dubai or even the Freedom Tower. This is unfortunately the way the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat classifies building height. Spires...yes, antennae...no.

At least U.S. cities are learning how to cheat overall building height like the rest of the world. lol

Back to topic :koko:

I agree, I hate that rule. The Sears (Willis) Tower is still the tallest in the US to me.

BTW- it looks like the Chicago Spire may be back on. The original plan was for 2,000 feet and I don't think it had a significant spire or anything.

[azsunsurfer]

Agreed. And there are plans for additional retail to be built adjacent to this patio, which will help in filling in the street from end to end. I've heard the city is trying to solicit upper scale retail for thse areas.

Huh?? The Arizona Board of Regents owns that entire block where the pavilion is going. It's part of the long term Block 12 Development. Where did you hear about the City being involved in recruiting "upscale retail?"?!??

[azsunsurfer]

I drove by the Camden? (Scottsdale and Curry) It appears they are going vertical, about on the third floor on some of the buildings already. I believe some of the buildings will be four floors.

[Jjs5056]

Huh?? The Arizona Board of Regents owns that entire block where the pavilion is going. It's part of the long term Block 12 Development. Where did you hear about the City being involved in recruiting "upscale retail?"?!??

Yes, I guess it is more correct to say ASU, not Tempe, though I think the University is surely working closely with the city.

If you feel like doing the amount of research I did in finding these bits of information, you can feel free. Or, you can take my word on the fact that other renderings show retail buildings on the plaza, and that "upscale retailers" were being sought for Block 12 and the Annex. We've already seen this prove true with The Vig coming on board and grabbing the first spot within the Annex.

[combusean]

Huh?? The Arizona Board of Regents owns that entire block where the pavilion is going. It's part of the long term Block 12 Development. Where did you hear about the City being involved in recruiting "upscale retail?"?!??

ABOR owns all University property on paper. ASU can enter into development agreements with ABOR's consent on their property. Tempe, as posted above, has considerable interest in recruiting high end retail as they live off retail sales taxes.

[phoenixwillrise]

What about the lots along Farmer? I know they are slated more towards the 5-6 story developments, but I wonder if that could change now that the University & Ash tower will be 20+ stories. I could see that University & Farmer lot having a nice midrise in the 10-12 story range, it is a very nice lot. Any idea who owns it?

Also, I believe the city owns the lots on 5th and Farmer (currently parking lot) and 5th and Ash. I could see them putting out RFPs for developments that include a public parking component in the future.

Just my $.02.


Speaking of USA PLACE. Were they not suppose to break ground in February?
Has anybody seen any construction gear over there and or has the old Chili's been leveled yet?

[ASU Diablo]

If you feel like doing the amount of research I did in finding these bits of information, you can feel free. Or, you can take my word on the fact that other renderings show retail buildings on the plaza, and that "upscale retailers" were being sought for Block 12 and the Annex. We've already seen this prove true with The Vig coming on board and grabbing the first spot within the Annex.

Maybe some more research is needed? It's Postino not The Vig ;)

[DevilsRider]

I drove by the Camden? (Scottsdale and Curry) It appears they are going vertical, about on the third floor on some of the buildings already. I believe some of the buildings will be four floors.

Yeah, some of them will be four floors. It looks like they've already got their website up and will be open in the fall: http://camdenhayden.com/

Anybody know what's up with those weird vertical white rectangles?

Also, although Camden is traditionally very suburban, and this is definitely a more suburban-type development, I am glad that they are at least putting most of the parking in garages underneath the units, instead of having all of the parking be detached like they seem to prefer, which allows for greater density and less asphalt.

[Arquitect]

Yeah, some of them will be four floors. It looks like they've already got their website up and will be open in the fall: http://camdenhayden.com/

Anybody know what's up with those weird vertical white rectangles?

Also, although Camden is traditionally very suburban, and this is definitely a more suburban-type development, I am glad that they are at least putting most of the parking in garages underneath the units, instead of having all of the parking be detached like they seem to prefer, which allows for greater density and less asphalt.

I've noticed this trend towards faux-urbanism a lot lately. The Residence at University Center next to Chompies is another one of these. They have the majority of their development close to the street, appearing to be very dense, but the middle of the project is a parking lot (that added to a large amount of garages). It almost reminds me of a donut or a fortress. I'm still going back and forth about how I feel about these developments. Its good that they are trying to be more urban, and at least from the street they will look a lot better, but I also think that they are just trying to profit by appearing t be something they are not. I'm leaning more towards not liking them.

[Leo the Dog]

I moved from Scottsdale and rented a 2bed/2bath apartment in Camden Copper Square. I worked in DT Phoenix and got tired of the commute, I went from a 20-40 minute drive to a ten minute walk...it was great.

Camden is an awesome property management company with good brand standards. The physical property did feel like a fortress though because the surrounding neighborhood was sketchy at best. I went back to Boston for a week in the summer, when I came home I found my vehicle was heavily vandalized in the garage...that was the 4th time and last time my car was vandalized.

[Jjs5056]

What about the lots along Farmer? I know they are slated more towards the 5-6 story developments, but I wonder if that could change now that the University & Ash tower will be 20+ stories. I could see that University & Farmer lot having a nice midrise in the 10-12 story range, it is a very nice lot. Any idea who owns it?

Also, I believe the city owns the lots on 5th and Farmer (currently parking lot) and 5th and Ash. I could see them putting out RFPs for developments that include a public parking component in the future.

Just my $.02.

The land along the eastern side of Farmer has been set for midrises since back when the boom was attracting proposal after proposal for 300' footers all around Mill. This was to create a bit of a buffer and step down between that western edge of downtown and the beginning of the low-rise neighborhoods. The goal was to develop several housing projects, rental and owner-occupied, that were more on the 'affordable housing' end of the spectrum, which Encore has fit well with, as the only project within the "Farmer Arts District" thus far to be completed.

The 2nd senior project, slated to go just north, Residences on Farmer, is still alive, but there's no schedule for breaking ground. On the other side, Sam Fox is renovating the warehouse into The Yard, Culinary Dropout and coffee house, so hopefully some affordable non-senior housing is developed next door sometime. There was also talks of a Tempe library branch going on this strip, which is still a great idea, maybe around 5th street so it is easily-accessed. Otherwise, 5-7 story projects will be the norm, and I hope some open space/parkland as well.

I think this makes plenty of sense. Even though we never got the mass wave of skyscrapers that were on deck, it's still clearly prudent planning to go no higher than ~7 stories at that location; that'll create a nice, dense neighborhood block as it is, without the odd 200'+ project looming over the rest of town, while the core has plenty of lots available for more intensive uses.

In terms of height, 300' has been designated as the height limit for downtown Tempe. I am sure if a developer wanted to, he could seek a variance and maybe win depending on the project, but I think it makes sense, given how small the downtown area is. Anything taller would start creating caverns and start blocking some of the great vistas of the city. A few towers connected by midrise density of the right usage and intensity will create a fabulous, active urban core.

[poconoboy61]

Speaking of USA PLACE. Were they not suppose to break ground in February?
Has anybody seen any construction gear over there and or has the old Chili's been leveled yet?

Chili's is still there and there is no construction equipment. I thought I recently read that construction is scheduled to begin in March though. I don't see a need to rush into construction. Once it starts, Mill and University is going to be a mess with sidewalk and maybe lane closures for probably over a year.

[Jjs5056]

I've noticed this trend towards faux-urbanism a lot lately. The Residence at University Center next to Chompies is another one of these. They have the majority of their development close to the street, appearing to be very dense, but the middle of the project is a parking lot (that added to a large amount of garages). It almost reminds me of a donut or a fortress. I'm still going back and forth about how I feel about these developments. Its good that they are trying to be more urban, and at least from the street they will look a lot better, but I also think that they are just trying to profit by appearing t be something they are not. I'm leaning more towards not liking them.

I made note of this trend in earlier threads, and it is one that we shouldn't want to see continuing much further. Almost every apartment project underway right now is following this form of development: "urban" via little setback, but still situating the apartments around a central garage or parking lot, making the automobile the clear choice when it comes to transportation. In many cases, there is merely a small front door that connect the development to the street, and this is gated most of the time.

These developments are also being called "mixed use" since their leasing office and fitness centers are being placed on the ground level. This is clearly not the intention of "mixed use," which is to combine a variety of uses together for the purposes of civic and community building, sustainability, etc.

I get so frustrated when I hear about how projects shouldn't include retail because it hasn't succeeded in other projects... when the true mixed use projects are surrounded by these monstrosities that make it nearly impossible to create a true neighborhood or community. All of these residents are going to hop in their cars and go shopping where it's convenient.

We need projects that promote walkability and encourage residents to get out and explore their community. That's how retail will survive, and how we can build momentum.

[azsunsurfer]

Maybe some more research is needed? It's Postino not The Vig ;)

Thanks Airomero, you proved my point...

[azsunsurfer]

I thought the Camden was suppose to encompass the northern portion of the block where the Goodwill is? Is that going to be a 2nd phase?

[Jjs5056]

Thanks Airomero, you proved my point...

What point is proven? Airomero was being tongue-in-cheek since I was clearly in a rush and mixed up The Vig and Postino; doesn't change the fact that Tempe and ASU, in concert, are working to bring upscale retail to College Avenue.

Why do you do this? I don't need to be bullied on an internet message board; it's really lame and takes all the fun out of what should be a simple hobby.

[Jjs5056]

Replying to this in greater detail as I already gave you the details regarding Farmer and the maximum height for downtown.

Sites that we can still see 100'+ developments in downtown Tempe (excluding lake):

Southwest corner of Mill Ave/Rio Salado (Monti's site) original plans had 2 300' towers. This site is far from development considering the stall of HFL 3. Although, this would have huge potential for a condo site considering that market revives itself in the next half decade. I like the original concept, it reminds me of the Veer Towers in Vegas (except blue), and those condos look awesome.



Agreed that this site is far from development, but I do think the designs would need quite a bit of tweaking if these were to ever be viable in a post-boom Tempe. I see no reason to compromise the Monti's house at all, and so two separate towers, one to the south and one to the east, would be appropriate. I think the heights would also need to scale down to allow view corridors into downtown.

It'd almost be a blessing in disguise if the developers need to make a move in order to stay afloat on the property: 12 story office tower along Mill and a 14-story condo along Rio (also agree that this is a prime tower to test out the condo waters).


Northeast corner of Mill/3rd St. (Mill redevelop site) I see a lot of potential in this site, but I think if Monti's were developed it would be nice to see 4 story town-home residences and offices. Or a boutique hotel redeveloped with the Mill would be VERY cool.

Southeast corner of Mill/3rd St. I think this site is more practical for the town-home idea, or a work/live concept. Probably not a real desirable site.


Looks like we're mixing up 3 different plots:

1) The Hayden Ferry Flour Mill Site:
I think this site needs very little to make it a success; anything more would be fabulous, but can be saved for future phases. At the minimum, I want to see the previous plans developed: retail annex facing Mill, with a raised plaza adjacent to a large glass artifact display piece by the silos.

Phase 2? Redevelopment one of the structure into lofts, or a small, 8-story loft building fronting Rio.

2) Mill/3rd: I actually think the NEC and SEC of this intersection are a fantastic place for some much needed human-scale infill. Unfortunately, I don't know if it is feasible given the land rights (assuming the Palms owns the lots), but simple retail + 4 story rentals on either side would help continue to the historic frontage of Mill, while bringing retail and residents northward to try and connect Uni and the Lake.

Northeast corner of Ash Avenue/5th St I think this site isn't very desirable as of now too. I hope we see some real height on this lot. I think its going to end up being two office buildings like US Airways or Gateway in design.

Why do you feel certain sites are undesirable? I think any open space downtown is desirable, but this piece even moreso given the fact that it is a large plot of land zoned for the highest degree of density.

SkyTower was planned on the south side of the lot, and I still think residential makes the most sense given the surrounding uses. I do wish Hayden Square would fill in its basement with retail, but oh well. a 7-story podium with 2 towers stepping back toward the west (11 and 7) would be ideal once the condo market is back.

To the north, yes - a generic office building is likely and given the glut of prime office space being proposed or in line ahead of this lot, I am sure it'll sit for quite a bit. A shame the city built that horrid garage, because a Gateway building with that amount of retail on the light rail line would've been great, but the north side is completely empty.

Southeast corner of Mill/7th St This lot has lots of potential. I think it is one we will see development plans with soon. Its going to be in prime location with USA Place opening soon nearby. I can see this as a multi use site.

This has been an important part of the Mill fabric missing since 2005ish; I made my wish in another thread recently, but I would like to see a boutique hotel fronting Mill, with a residential tower (15 or so stories) following behind; level 1 would be retail, while level 2 would be an LA Fitness, and other residential amenities.

University Square, I don't think we will see this site developed for a long time, especially with the development of USA Place.

Agreed. Uni Square will need to take a look and see what else is can bring to the Tempe market. IMO, it would be best to divide the land into 4 parcels, and work with ASU in developing at least the University frontage. As mentioned elsewhere, I would like to see them partner with the design school, and build a structure housing retail (art supplies, art gallery, real estate business) on level 1, offices on level 2 (additional architecture/design/planning firms), classroom/open lab space on level 3, and affordable housing for art students on levels 4-10. If demand called for it, a 12-story dorm for freshman could be built next door, or else a small park with public art would be a nice temporary space.

[Jjs5056]

I think Tempe needs to also reevaluate its mass transit plans again, given the newest developments with Marina Heights and USA Place coming on board. Perhaps these don't change anything, in which case, I hope that streetcar line is moving forward quickly and will be up and running by the time these developments are open.

University, Mill, Apache, Rural, and College are all bottle-necked given current traffic patterns, and having those two massive development outside the reach of the LRT won't help ease that burden at all.

Hopefully, if nothing else, we'll get the Rio alignment, so we can at least provide USA Place, HFL, and Marina Heights workers with the option of connecting to LRT. I still think the Apache stretch should have terminated at Gammage, allowing the Rio leg to reach Rural and the residents of the Northshore.

[Arquitect]

I think Tempe needs to also reevaluate its mass transit plans again, given the newest developments with Marina Heights and USA Place coming on board. Perhaps these don't change anything, in which case, I hope that streetcar line is moving forward quickly and will be up and running by the time these developments are open.

University, Mill, Apache, Rural, and College are all bottle-necked given current traffic patterns, and having those two massive development outside the reach of the LRT won't help ease that burden at all.

Hopefully, if nothing else, we'll get the Rio alignment, so we can at least provide USA Place, HFL, and Marina Heights workers with the option of connecting to LRT. I still think the Apache stretch should have terminated at Gammage, allowing the Rio leg to reach Rural and the residents of the Northshore.

Don't hold your breath. The project is still in the planning and design phase. Construction will not start for a while, and when it does, it will take about a year to complete, since there will be some utilities that will have to be moved. After that you are looking at a few months of testing, In other words, both projects will be complete before the street car gets going.

The one good thing is that if people think it is a pain to commute, they might start moving to Tempe and heighten the demand for housing in the area.

[Jjs5056]

That's kind of been my shtick: build more residential in the central city, and Tempe will continue on its own way toward becoming a world-class destination.

However, while I'll still stick to my guns - in the wake of the "debbie downer" insults flung my way - in saying that it's condos and market rate rentals we need in the core to keep Tempe's ecosystem alive and running, the simple fact is that very few residents have easy access to LRT in Tempe, particularly those who aren't students. W6 (mainly students) and Hanover are the only real developments underway that are close to the transit. So, those living in the "core" (HFL condos, USA Place apartments) may find themselves still needing to commute.

Combine these urban commuters with the typical suburban commuter, sprinkle in your 40,000+ student population base, and a mass transit system tucked away on the furthest side of downtown, and I think things might get a little crazy.

[xymox]

The one good thing is that if people think it is a pain to commute, they might start moving to Tempe and heighten the demand for housing in the area.

Not sure about that. I worked in downtown Tempe for quite a few years. I considered moving to HFL until I realized the following...

1. Getting groceries would be quite a pain (is there decent shopping around - i.e. AJs/Fry's Signature?)
2. Where would my kids go to elementary school? Would I have to drive them there?
3. Most of my neighbors would be college students looking to party until 3am weeknights.
4. Rent anywhere decent for a family is crazy for the valley ($1800/mth + for very little in return)
5. Mill is still not a family friendly place to raise a family, with the crime, college students and homeless roaming. (someone was shot outside my office a few years ago and left to bleed out)
6. With all the 'events' between ASU, the art festival, etc - Mill/Rio are closed so often and parking is quite a pain.

I'd much rather deal with a nasty commute, and have a nice quiet place to go back home.

I mention this because, State Farm is likely to attract people who are older and have families. They aren't going to be attracted to living in downtown Tempe until a LOT of things change. As it stands right now - I feel that any hope for massive condos, etc for the area is a pipe dream until Tempe addresses some very core issues. It to me does not seem like they are really planning for any decent level of residential in and around Mill - or we would be hearing about supporting projects that would need to be there.

I wanted to think that downtown Tempe living would work - maybe right when I got out of ASU it would have. But almost 20 years later - slightly above zero appeal.

Just my $0.02

[ASUSunDevil]

Not sure about that. I worked in downtown Tempe for quite a few years. I considered moving to HFL until I realized the following...

1. Getting groceries would be quite a pain (is there decent shopping around - i.e. AJs/Fry's Signature?)
2. Where would my kids go to elementary school? Would I have to drive them there?
3. Most of my neighbors would be college students looking to party until 3am weeknights.
4. Rent anywhere decent for a family is crazy for the valley ($1800/mth + for very little in return)
5. Mill is still not a family friendly place to raise a family, with the crime, college students and homeless roaming. (someone was shot outside my office a few years ago and left to bleed out)
6. With all the 'events' between ASU, the art festival, etc - Mill/Rio are closed so often and parking is quite a pain.

I'd much rather deal with a nasty commute, and have a nice quiet place to go back home.

I mention this because, State Farm is likely to attract people who are older and have families. They aren't going to be attracted to living in downtown Tempe until a LOT of things change. As it stands right now - I feel that any hope for massive condos, etc for the area is a pipe dream until Tempe addresses some very core issues. It to me does not seem like they are really planning for any decent level of residential in and around Mill - or we would be hearing about supporting projects that would need to be there.

I wanted to think that downtown Tempe living would work - maybe right when I got out of ASU it would have. But almost 20 years later - slightly above zero appeal.

Just my $0.02

I'm unsure of your point as you are far from the demographic that would want to live in Downtown Tempe. The high end residential of Downtown Tempe is geared toward wealthy college kids, young professionals and other adults looking for an urban lifestyle. No developer builds anything Downtown with your demographic in mind.

Safeway is not too far, and the grocery dilemma will be solved by Whole Foods and/or USA Place's grocer.

The crime is really not that bad, and yes, college kids party :shrug:

[Arquitect]

I'm unsure of your point as you are far from the demographic that would want to live in Downtown Tempe. The high end residential of Downtown Tempe is geared toward wealthy college kids, young professionals and other adults looking for an urban lifestyle. No developer builds anything Downtown with your demographic in mind.

Safeway is not too far, and the grocery dilemma will be solved by Whole Foods and/or USA Place's grocer.

The crime is really not that bad, and yes, college kids party :shrug:

There was some validity to the point, since these big projects would probably encompass a much greater demographic than what is in Tempe. Although I would never really expect the young family demographic to move into an apartment in downtown Tempe, I could see them moving to somewhere in south Tempe. I still think that these two really big projects will increase the need for housing though. Tempe will always be a college town, but with projects like these, it is definitely a move to expanding beyond that base and creating a little more diverse urban core. We might not get young families right away, but it will definitely attract people beyond the student and young professional demographic.

[ASUSunDevil]

We might not get young families right away, but it will definitely attract people beyond the student and young professional demographic.

The neighborhood just south of Apache on College is perfectly suitable for a young family and is within a mile of Downtown. It sounded like he was explaining all of the downfalls of living in the heart of Downtown Tempe with a family, which basically no one does.

Encore has proven that there is a market outside of students and young professionals that want to live Downtown.

[xymox]

There was some validity to the point, since these big projects would probably encompass a much greater demographic than what is in Tempe. Although I would never really expect the young family demographic to move into an apartment in downtown Tempe, I could see them moving to somewhere in south Tempe. I still think that these two really big projects will increase the need for housing though. Tempe will always be a college town, but with projects like these, it is definitely a move to expanding beyond that base and creating a little more diverse urban core. We might not get young families right away, but it will definitely attract people beyond the student and young professional demographic.

More or less my point. Tempe can only hold so many college students and young professionals. To get to the type of density you want, Tempe needs to have a broader appeal than to people who just want to be close to work and the bars. Other cities manage this.

State Farm expects 7000 employees on that campus - that's a LOT of people. American Express has about 4300 or so - and a lot of the people who work there have young families. Plus they live in the areas close to the campus. Downtown Tempe doesn't really provide that type of housing for those type of people - so until they do, it will be a cluster fuck of a traffic problem. (Scottsdale Rd south from 202 in the morning right now is a cluster - 2 years from now?) They likely would have been better served building a 50+ story building in downtown PHX, IMHO.

[ASUSunDevil]

The lake is going to look incredible when its done, but I see your point.

State Farm building a 500 footer on the lot east of CityScape would have been just fine with me.

[Jjs5056]

Xynox - I definitely understand your point; however, downtown Phoenix is even LESS equipped to house the working force coming to Tempe via State Farm and USA Place. Right now, downtown Phoenix is a mixed of student housing and modern infill within the sketchier parts of downtown (just beyond the 7's); a young professional would need to choose between the limited inventory of 44 Monroe and Summit or try and find a roomate looking for another in one if the houses in Roosevelt. Those with a family would need to travel to midtown for a historic home, or uptown for a more affordable alternative. Additionally, I think you're being slightly prudish regarding Tempe's issues: all downtowns have some tough spots, homeless, etc. Youre missing out on what makes Tempe great: the lake itself, the great parks system, central access to cultural amenities like Beach Park, TCA, Papago Park, Zoo, DBG, all of downtown Phoenix, and both rail and freeway access nearby.

However, in general, I have been thinking that Tempe really is ill-prepared for the influx in workforce population coming. These aren't folks that will be walking next door to their dorm at night. That's why I asked about the streetcar- which could at least reduce congestion within downtown and connect these folks to uptown Phoenix and Mesa, where there is affordable housing for families.

Tempe is the urban heart of our metro and that means that many different demographics will call it home, go to school there, or work within its limits. This makes for a dynamic neighborhood, but causes a lot of challenges that will need to be addressed.

I got my head bitten off when I suggested that Tempe needed to shelve future student-focused projects and concentrate those on higher-end, yet affordable, housing aimed at young professionals to house this growing workforce. This will cut down on traffic, while building civic pride within these workers so that when they begin their families, they'll be Temle enthusiasts who can hopefully use streetcar and/or buss to explore Tempe's single family neighborhoods, which are actually rather unique, safe, and affordable.

ASUSunDevil - Tempe is a college town at heart, but it's now attracted two more HQs and needs to start providing the right instracture to handle the needs of the class working in these facilities. Ash/Uni, Hanover, and Lofts at Hayden Ferry will help, but more is needed in order to make downtown a place for both an 18-year old ASU freshman and a 40-year old State Farm worker. That means even more housing, more transit, increased police force, and accessible services like grocers, pharmacies, healthcare, and more.

State Farm - I think it would've been well-advised for Tempe to have required that SF construct a residential building at Marina Heights, because the thought of the 202 ramps at 5:30 makes me cringe. It could've been open to anyone, but there's no doubt that these workers would've flocked to a residential tower right on their campus in what will be a new town for most of them. Sure, the private sector should catch up, but I think this is a case where the public sector should've intervened. They'd never open a school for that many students without having the proper housing nearby.

[Spitfiredude]

Honestly I don't see several of these newer projects being attractive to students. I think this is a result of the crop of student focus housing that has and is springing up on the eastern end of campus. Hanover is definitely geared more toward younger professionals. Likewise, this new Lakeside Apartments is geared to the 21+ crowd. Both aren't as attractive to students as other places are.

Living at West 6th is not bad. If you have not lived here, you cannot judge. I graduated ASU a couple years ago and have been here at W6 for 1 1/2 years. According to the concierge security guard down stairs tower 1 is where they try to throw more of the students. Tower one's population consists 80% people age 22 and under. In comparison, tower 2 (the taller one) consists of only 65% people age 22 and under. I didn't ask for information about the town homes. The people above me are college students, and RARELY party week nights (they're frat boys too). If they do, they end up going out to Mill, so it ends by 11. This may happen once a month. The people below me are a young couple. Even when people blast their music, or have 15+ people over it is fairly quiet. The only thing that travels through concrete is bass. The walls here are triple insulated, and the windows are a good barrier of sound. I'm more worried about the music on Mill than elsewhere. The maintenance here has been very good and I love where I live. I've never had to call security. Living so close to ASU, and being one of the lone towers in downtown Tempe, of course there will be the college crowd. Its not a problem though.

Crime here is the result of night life on Mill. Scottsdale has high crime in their Old Town district. This statistical information is MISLEADING though. The crime targeted is crime from a drunk person to another drunk person. Its not like you randomly walk down Mill and someone is trying to assault you or shoot a gun at you. I've seen 2 shootings since living at W6, both were at 1 AM. One Saturday, one Thursday. This district is HEAVILY policed and guarded so in both situations suspects were caught. These aren't people that live here though. These are people coming from all parts of the Valley to enjoy nightlife on Mill, then some jacka** ruins it. I am just saying, crime is out the door. Its not like living in Laveen or anything and you cannot compare it to that, because residents that live here make $50k+.

I do think downtown Tempe needs a variety of housing, but its in the process of that. Even as it is like people mentioned, you have Encore. No one mentioned the Condos at HFL. Those are filled with non college students. Orchidhouse is also filled with non college students. If you think downtown Tempe caters only to college students and young professions you are wrong. You will see a greater variety of development now and in the future here and along the lake.

[azsunsurfer]

"State Farm - I think it would've been well-advised for Tempe to have required that SF construct a residential building at Marina Heights, because the thought of the 202 ramps at 5:30 makes me cringe. It could've been open to anyone, but there's no doubt that these workers would've flocked to a residential tower right on their campus in what will be a new town for most of them. Sure, the private sector should catch up, but I think this is a case where the public sector should've intervened. They'd never open a school for that many students without having the proper housing nearby."

That would've been a horrible idea...possibly compromising the project in its entirety. State Farm nor Ryan Companies nor Sunbelt Holdings are in the residential development game...There is a market rate/ non student driven residential development breaking ground in June that is directly west of the development. I think that's good enough....Let us not forget Pier 202 is a short distance away and is poised to contain residential development.

[Jjs5056]

Honestly I don't see several of these newer projects being attractive to students. I think this is a result of the crop of student focus housing that has and is springing up on the eastern end of campus. Hanover is definitely geared more toward younger professionals. Likewise, this new Lakeside Apartments is geared to the 21+ crowd. Both aren't as attractive to students as other places are.

Living at West 6th is not bad. If you have not lived here, you cannot judge. I graduated ASU a couple years ago and have been here at W6 for 1 1/2 years. According to the concierge security guard down stairs tower 1 is where they try to throw more of the students. Tower one's population consists 80% people age 22 and under. In comparison, tower 2 (the taller one) consists of only 65% people age 22 and under. I didn't ask for information about the town homes. The people above me are college students, and RARELY party week nights (they're frat boys too). If they do, they end up going out to Mill, so it ends by 11. This may happen once a month. The people below me are a young couple. Even when people blast their music, or have 15+ people over it is fairly quiet. The only thing that travels through concrete is bass. The walls here are triple insulated, and the windows are a good barrier of sound. I'm more worried about the music on Mill than elsewhere. The maintenance here has been very good and I love where I live. I've never had to call security. Living so close to ASU, and being one of the lone towers in downtown Tempe, of course there will be the college crowd. Its not a problem though.

Crime here is the result of night life on Mill. Scottsdale has high crime in their Old Town district. This statistical information is MISLEADING though. The crime targeted is crime from a drunk person to another drunk person. Its not like you randomly walk down Mill and someone is trying to assault you or shoot a gun at you. I've seen 2 shootings since living at W6, both were at 1 AM. One Saturday, one Thursday. This district is HEAVILY policed and guarded so in both situations suspects were caught. These aren't people that live here though. These are people coming from all parts of the Valley to enjoy nightlife on Mill, then some jacka** ruins it. I am just saying, crime is out the door. Its not like living in Laveen or anything and you cannot compare it to that, because residents that live here make $50k+.

I do think downtown Tempe needs a variety of housing, but its in the process of that. Even as it is like people mentioned, you have Encore. No one mentioned the Condos at HFL. Those are filled with non college students. Orchidhouse is also filled with non college students. If you think downtown Tempe caters only to college students and young professions you are wrong. You will see a greater variety of development now and in the future here and along the lake.

Not sure if all your comments were directed at me or not, but:

I agree, Hanover and Lofts at Hayden Ferry are certainly aimed at the younger professional; both are rather small in comparison to, say, University House (especially if a phase II gets built), and lack the visibility and direct access to transit. I didn't mention the condos at Orchidhouse and HFL because those are owner-occupied and I'm not sure a worker from out of state will be ready for that kind of commitment, plus the amount of investors involved that scoop up units.

You are right in that the student housing trend has moved east after HUB was completed, but that was a pretty prime lot that could've been used for a more diverse demographic, and there are some projects that have been proposed along the rail on Apache that I think should be saved for market rate rentals (still allowing students the option of renting, but none of the CA/roomate assistance/etc.), because we need to start looking at Tempe based on its transit lines and nodes of amenities/attractions as downtown proper starts reaching build out.

For starters, both projects (USA Place and State Farm) are inaccessible to the light rail, meaning all of those workers will need to commute to and from work, no matter how close or far home is. That's especially true if the streetcar isn't ready, which seems likely per Arq, though hopefully most USA Place workers will live within the development. Unfortunately, for the SF workers we lose to the suburbs when they first arrives, they are highly likely to stay living that lifestyle indefinitely. That's why it's important to provide more than just a 6-story building on Mill. All the more reason a tower on Rural/Rio would've been a great investment by the city.

College Ave is also becoming an activity hub, with plans to add more retail in the future, yet housing is limited to students. This area definitely needs some market rate rentals, which I'm hoping could be built west of Block 12. Lastly, the developments along Town Lake, while good for the city in terms of sales taxes, etc. are actually not that great from an urban POV, as all of them will be inaccessible to transit. Ideally the streetcar will run to McClintock one day, but that's way into the future, and for now, the more development, the more cars on the road as that's the only option.

Thanks for the W6 demos - I hadn't thought so many were 22+ and think they should advertise that figure as these projects near completion. I also agree about the crime statistics and what not... what isn't misrepresented is just a fact of life in a major metro.

[Jjs5056]

"State Farm - I think it would've been well-advised for Tempe to have required that SF construct a residential building at Marina Heights, because the thought of the 202 ramps at 5:30 makes me cringe. It could've been open to anyone, but there's no doubt that these workers would've flocked to a residential tower right on their campus in what will be a new town for most of them. Sure, the private sector should catch up, but I think this is a case where the public sector should've intervened. They'd never open a school for that many students without having the proper housing nearby."

That would've been a horrible idea...possibly compromising the project in its entirety. State Farm nor Ryan Companies nor Sunbelt Holdings are in the residential development game...There is a market rate/ non student driven residential development breaking ground in June that is directly west of the development. I think that's good enough....Let us not forget Pier 202 is a short distance away and is poised to contain residential development.

Why would it have been a horrible idea? A mass amount of workers are coming to a business development along the lake, many from out of state, and will be in need of housing. A lakefront residential tower endorsed by the company would be a win for both the city and State Farm, as it keeps the workers in town to live/work/play, reduces auto congestion, etc.

The development to the west is a luxury development; I'm not sure of the salaries of the SF divisions coming to the shore, but it could be priced out of their range. Additionally, it's quite small and could fill up quickly.

Instead of calling it horrible, why not help me understand why and discuss other options? I don't pretend to know how the logistics would have had to work - AFAIK, Sunbelt played a part in the HFL development, but I guess I am wrong. In that case, could the city have negotiated a purchase or lease of a portion of land for residential development? Does Sunbelt own the land between Packard and Rural? If not, couldn't the city issue an RFP (even if you disagree for the need)?

This would serve other residents, as well, and help keep the south shore accessible to the public, as opposed to a walled-off campus, which fits the goals of the city.

As for Pier 202, they've submitted 3 plans for review - all different - within the last 5 years, and have yet to break ground. I'm sure it will happen eventually, but it's certainly a long time away.

[Spitfiredude]

@JJs5056 my comments were mostly directed at Xymox, but I do enjoy the discussion :)

I thought State Farm had already announced that most of the workers in this new facility already work here in the Valley and very minimal are relocating?

Yes I'm excited for Tempe, but I'm not gonna lie a 500-800 footer in downtown Phoenix would have been great.

[Jjs5056]

@JJs5056 my comments were mostly directed at Xymox, but I do enjoy the discussion :)

I thought State Farm had already announced that most of the workers in this new facility already work here in the Valley and very minimal are relocating?

Honestly, I haven't paid much attention - by "regional HQ," I assumed at least 2/3 would be coming from other parts of the southwest.

If that is indeed in true, then a residential component probably wasn't necessary - though, it's still a shame how much of the lake's frontage has been commercialized and rendered inaccessible to the public. But, I digress.

I really wish I could throw some ideas over to the Tempe CVB. I'd make sure materials were given out on the first week outlining the new residential projects nearby aimed at their demo, work with Hanover and the Lofts at Hayden Ferry to send reps in to talk about their buildings and amenities, and do some direct mail to their mailboxes (or intranet marketing if allowed by SF) showing how much their commute would be reduced if living in Mesa, then Scottsdale, then Chandler. I'd also work with SF to see if they could institute any incentives for staying in Tempe; SF has "smart driving" bonuses, why not give "smart living" bonuses due to the sustainable practice of living in close proximity to work? Subsidizing or giving out rail passes for free would also be an easy way for the company to contribute.

And, in the meantime, Tempe can get its streetcar issues straightened out so that in 5 or so years, raising a family in the city and working at SF can be done in a smart, sustainable fashion.

[TempeSilverFox]

Honestly, I haven't paid much attention - by "regional HQ," I assumed at least 2/3 would be coming from other parts of the southwest.

If that is indeed in true, then a residential component probably wasn't necessary - though, it's still a shame how much of the lake's frontage has been commercialized and rendered inaccessible to the public. But, I digress.


Jjs5056, I think you'll be pleased to know that the State Farm complex actually doesn't really change the public access to Tempe Town Lake at all. The lake front park and multi-use paths are still there and always will be. In fact, the State Farm project really does more to promote accessibility and activity at the lake front than the ocean of a parking lot that was previously there. From everything we have heard, the State Farm complex is supposed to include coffee shops and some sort of restaurants (I think...?) If that's true, then folks now have additional destinations to walk towards along the lake shore. I think it will work out quite nicely. But to your point, I think all of us would like to see increased residential- aimed towards as many demographics as possible- in the downtown core Mill Avenue District. The greater the variety of residents, the more self-sustaining the area will become, and ideally, we should see a greater variety of businesses that will hopefully follow them.

[Tito714]

We already get free light rail/bus passes from work, I work for State Farm down on Priest and Washington.