Tempe Development Thread

[MegaBass]

^^^^^^^^
Dunkin Donuts moved out:( I thought for sure that would make it with all the college kids nearby - as well as nearby businesses. Are people trying to be healthy all of a sudden :shrug: or maybe just no money for donuts...


Dunkin Donuts moved out across the street from Ted's Hot Dogs on McClintock and Broadway. Bigger location and I think unlike the Mill Ave location they're able to bake/make their food within the premise.

[MegaBass]

All of them are long dead along with dozens of other projects Downtown, Midtown, Uptown, Camelback Corridor, Scottsdale, Glendale, Chandler, et cetera.

The Valley got an unfortunate late jump on the last high rise boom, we always unfortunately seem to due to overly conservative developers. By the time the market crashed, we hadn't gotten much built.

Good considering that University Square probably would of blocked the west side of campus view of the A Mountain/Tempe Butte.

100 Mill Avenue would dominate over Monti's too and that second photo really does no justice to Tempe's Founder Casa.

[ciweiss]

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/local/tempe/article_0880af62-4c37-11e0-a131-001cc4c03286.html

Towers tip of the iceberg for Tempe development surge?



A massive complex of 20-story towers is being proposed along Tempe Town Lake in what is one of the most ambitious new projects contemplated in the East Valley since the recession crippled new development.

And a project representative said to expect plans for even more downtown Tempe buildings soon.

The interest in new development might seem a signal the economy is roaring back. But don’t expect to see many new buildings for a while.

Rather, investors are getting their ducks in a row for when vacant buildings fill up and demand grows for new office, condo and hotel towers.

That could take several years for the just-proposed Hayden Harbor in Tempe, said Manjula Vaz, a zoning attorney who represents the 2 million square-foot development. Hayden Harbor would feature seven towers of up to 278 feet, on the north bank of the lake and west of Scottsdale Road. One tower would house offices, with about 1,400 condos in the others.

The plan comes from a limited liability corporation called El Fenix I and El Fenix II, Vaz said.

“Our goal is to attract other investors and build maybe one building at a time,” Vaz said.

The initial interest in this kind of a project isn’t a surprise to Jay Butler, the longtime director of Arizona State University’s Realty Studies Department. But he’s not sure there’s demand for this type of urban high-rise lifestyle in a place where residents like to enjoy the sun in their own backyards.

The Valley’s first high-rise condo debuted in Phoenix in 1964 and few followed until the boom last decade, he said. Butler doubts the public demanded as many high-rise units as were built and is skeptical investors or homeowners will embrace more urban condos.

“I’m not betting on it.” Butler said. “It just doesn’t seem to be a desired lifestyle unless something drastic comes up, like you can’t have your swimming pools. People are still wanting to have that sort of thing.”

He noted the struggles of the Hayden Ferry Lakeside condos on lake’s south shore development coming to a halt before the Centerpoint Condominiums could be completed in downtown Tempe. Centerpoint will open as 375 upscale apartments this summer called West Sixth.

Regardless of what future homebuyers will want, Butler expects the East Valley will outperform the Valley’s real estate recovery. The region’s higher education institutes, public schools and job centers are important attractions, he said.

“They should be in the lead because they’ve got what people would be looking for,” he said.

Vaz, who represented numerous developers in downtown Tempe during the boom, said interest is high again in Tempe.

“You’ll see we have several projects coming up around downtown and the lake soon,” she said.

Hayden Harbor includes the site of the defunct Club Rio. The current plan is similar to a project Phoenix-based Namwest LLC had pitched before filing for bankruptcy protection in 2008. Namwest paid $40 million for 22 acres in 2005, outbidding developers that included Donald Trump.

[PHX31]

Does anybody know what is going on at the Newman Center. I walked by there today and everything except the church it self was torn down or in the process of. I didn't see any permit signs for future development. I know they had plans for a dorm or student housing at one point before the market collapse. I figured that it was dead. Is it being build now or something completely different?

Sorry I don't have any real information, but my friend that used to work at the Newman Center said they're replacing the old Newman Center (the stuff you saw being torn down - not the old church) with a new building.

Granted, I don't know what, I don't know when, but he said they're going to be replacing it. Hopefully that means sooner than later.

[MegaBass]

Sorry I don't have any real information, but my friend that used to work at the Newman Center said they're replacing the old Newman Center (the stuff you saw being torn down - not the old church) with a new building.

Granted, I don't know what, I don't know when, but he said they're going to be replacing it. Hopefully that means sooner than later.

Alright got it covered from last page.

From their site:

http://www.asucatholic.org/support_bldg_update.php

This weekend’s “Mass of Thanksgiving” marks the beginning of the “demolition phase”. Early this week you will see a fence go up and the “Center” will officially close. The Newman offices will also begin the move into our temporary offices at 715 E 7th St. (brown building to the west - about 50 yards away). Please bear with us as business activities will be somewhat limited for a couple of days.

Schedule:
Feb. 26 “Mass of Thanksgiving”
Feb. 28th Move Offices
March 1 – 8 Removal of asbestos (ceiling and floor tile).
March 8 – 18th Building Demolition
March 21st Construction expected to start

[PHX31]

/\Ah, cool. Didn't see that.

[HooverDam]

Mill Avenue's resurgence has begun

7 comments by Dianna M. Náñez - Mar. 19, 2011 06:17 AM
The Arizona Republic

Mill Avenue businesses struggled even before the Great Recession. But one downtown Tempe strip is seeing so much traffic that the landowner swears it's on the verge of becoming the Valley's version of Times Square in New York.

Landowner Herzel "Joe" Nahom is on the verge of filling his row of kiosks on Sixth Street with outdoor seating that will serve Mill Avenue customers 24 hours a day. Four of the kiosks, Cuties, Chronic Tacos, Slices and Munchies Café, are already open.

Sixth Street is a happening spot, with Urban Outfitters, Hippy Gypsy and vendors selling tacos, pizza and hot dogs on the east end. On the west end, popular higher-end businesses like Z'Tejas, Robbie Fox's Public House, Canteen Modern Tequila Bar and Churchill's Fine Cigars draw crowds daily.


American Apparel on Sixth closed last month, but a sandwich shop is slated to open this month.

Businesses along the strip cite different reasons for their success.

Managers of Churchill's and Robbie Fox's, an Irish pub/restaurant, say they offer a sense of place and a quality product at an affordable price.

Anthony King, co-owner of Cuties, the hot dog stand, says the food vendors and Hippy Gypsy give downtown a gritty urban feel that appeals to those who enjoy the college-town atmosphere.

"I think people like that downtown Tempe is a place where a businessman in a suit and man who is homeless feel comfortable," King said.

"Sixth Street is going to be a mini-Times Square," Nahom said. "I'm telling you, until I die I am not going to rest until this corner is going to be open 24 hours a day like no other place in the state of Arizona - I guarantee that."

Nahom is the landowner for a stretch of retail space on the southeastern corner of Sixth Street and Mill. He has owned land in downtown Tempe since about 1987. He says he tires of hearing businesses complain that they can't survive on Mill. His only complaint is the run-down condition of the historic Hayden Flour Mill.

"Get that cleaned up and we'll be fine on Mill," he said.

Nahom said the key to a popular Mill business is having something unique to offer and staying true to the college market.

Nahom is waiting for his sandwich vendor to open. Once that's happened, he plans on pushing the vendors to stay open 24 hours a day on weekends.

"We're going to have Mexican food, Italian food, hot dogs, sandwiches, and you have 60,000 customers every day a few blocks away. . . . If they cannot be open 24 hours a day, who could?" he said.

Nahom is the landlord for Hippie Gypsy. The shop is often packed with high school and college students looking for funky clothes, lava lamps or tie-dye gear. Next door is Campus Corner, where Arizona State University fans young and old get their maroon-and-gold paraphernalia.

Happy Healthy High Horny Herbs, a relative newcomer, draws natural-medicine connoisseurs. And people wait in line on weekends to get into Zuma Grill and Mill Cue Club.

But Nahom's crown jewels are the food kiosks just east of Mill on Sixth Street.

The metal doors to the row of teeny shops roll down at the end of the day and up in the morning. Customers often say they like the stores' industrial appearance and outdoor seating because it gives the strip a big-city feel.

"The stores on that corner are doing phenomenal," he said.

The buzz on Sixth Street has spread to the west end, too.

On any given weekend night, Canteen Modern Tequila Bar's outdoor seating, which stretches onto Sixth Street's sidewalk, is packed. A couple of doors down, cigar enthusiasts chat about business on Churchill's patio.

"It's been tough for businesses, but we've got loyal customers. If those (apartment) towers are priced right, they will get filled. That's going to help all of Mill," said Churchill's manager Shannon Randle, referring to West Sixth,the soon-to-open apartments on the west end of Sixth Street.

Dominic Jones, a managing owner of Robbie Fox's, which opened last year on Sixth, said Mill Avenue is about to explode.

"We are about to expand for the third time since we opened. How about that?" he said, noting the banquet area the business added and the breakfast bar that Jones and his partners will soon open just east of Robbie Fox's.



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/community/tempe/articles/2011/03/18/20110318tempe-mill-avenue-resurgence.html#ixzz1H5JZOVEb

The bizarre cultural obsession with saying place X is going to "be like Times Square" withstanding I'm glad this guy is dreaming big and trying to make 6th St a 24 hour/Urban destination.

[combusean]

Anthony King, co-owner of Cuties, the hot dog stand, says the food vendors and Hippy Gypsy give downtown a gritty urban feel that appeals to those who enjoy the college-town atmosphere.

I think I want to punch this guy. Grit and mainstay smokeshops/trendy food kiosks have nothing to do with each other.

[Jsmscaleros]

Signs of life at West 6th... I had to see it to believe that they were actually working again. Lots more info on West 6th, Mill Ave development, and more around the area here: http://www.sofa-connect.org/connected/viewforum.php?f=3

http://www.sofa-connect.org/Images/Posts/3_19West6th.jpg
New crane/elevator re-attachment at Tower 2 of West 6th

[MegaBass]

ASU Health Center Renovation (Fall 2011) and Expansion (Spring 2012)

http://www.owp.com/asuhealth/img/wellness-porch-axo.png

http://www.owp.com/asuhealth/img/north-elev.jpg

http://www.owp.com/asuhealth/img/south-elev.jpg

http://www.owp.com/asuhealth/img/east-elev.jpg

http://www.owp.com/asuhealth/img/west-elev.jpg

http://www.owp.com/asuhealth/img/1st-floor.jpg

http://www.owp.com/asuhealth/img/2nd-floor.jpg

[MegaBass]

ASU ISTB IV

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/31340_1429006652786_1461434153_1118158_3477591_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/31340_1429006612785_1461434153_1118157_8003389_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/31340_1429006532783_1461434153_1118156_5300719_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/31340_1429006692787_1461434153_1118159_6799189_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/200167_1596573722286_1474267082_31268315_2056291_n.jpg

[Leo the Dog]

This guy, Nahom, the owner of the Hippie Gypsy has been smoking too much Hippie Lettuce.

Times Square is for the birds. Most people avoid Times Sq. for all the right reasons. To relate anything outside of Times Sq. to Times Sq. is so unbelievably stupid, I'm at a loss of words.

[Tempe_Duck]

Tempe's downtown towers have leasing agent, rental rates

9 comments by Dianna M. Náñez - Mar. 18, 2011 11:42 AM
The Arizona Republic

The new developer of downtown Tempe's luxury apartment towers has announced rental rates and selected a leasing agent.

Rates for studio apartments are beginning at $945; one bedrooms are beginning at $1175; two bedrooms are beginning at $1550 and three bedrooms are beginning at $1995.

Zaremba Group officials announced Friday that they selected Capstone Companies as the property manager for West 6th Tempe apartments at Sixth Street just west of Mill Avenue.

Capstone will manage leasing, operations and community development. The temporary leasing office is open in downtown Tempe on the northwestern corner of Sixth Street and Mill in a suite formerly occupied by American Apparel.

The towers were long stalled after the housing market crashed and financiers for the project and the original developer filed for bankruptcy. Zaremba purchased the development last month and resumed construction immediately.

Kent Chantung, Zaremba's director of residential development had said rates would be comparable to nearby luxury apartments. At The Vue on Apache apartment, at Apache and Rural Road, rates range from about $525 for shared units to about $1,250 for studios and one bedrooms.

"Capstone thoroughly understands the dynamics of the Tempe community and given their vast housing background they are well versed in handling a wide, lifestyle-conscious demographic," said Chantung in a Friday news release.

Capstone has its corporate office in Birmingham, Ala. and a regional office in California. The company specializes in housing near university campuses.

"We are thrilled to be involved with this visionary project for the downtown Tempe community. Our goal is to develop a residential community that represents the diversity of Tempe," said Monique Newman, vice president of marketing and communications for Capstone, in Friday's news release.

West 6th is being marketed to Arizona State University students and professionals who would prefer an urban lifestyle to suburban living. The apartment is expected to have 375 units when complete. The 22-story Tower I will be ready for residents by August 1, and the 30-story Tower II is expected to be ready by December. The development plan includes a resort-style pool with cabanas, fitness center, study and conference areas and mixed retail that could include a small grocery store and restaurant.

A grand-opening ceremony for the leasing office is March 28 and will be attended by members of the Tempe City Council and Mayor Hugh Hallman.

The office is available to visitors and future residents from 11 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday through Saturday, with extended hours Thursday through Saturday until 8 p.m. beginning March 31 and by appointment on Sunday.

For more information about West 6th Tempe: 480.664.6111 or info@west6thtempe.com and visit www.west6thtempe.com.



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/community/tempe/articles/2011/03/18/20110318tempe-downtown-towers-complex-selects-apartment-manager.html#ixzz1HDAVO0x2

Seems a bit high for me but what do I know?

[bwonger06]

Seems a bit high for me but what do I know?

Very high... especially considering the audience. Downtown Phoenix (44M) has a much larger worker base, whereas Tempe has essentially nothing except for students, teachers, and US Airways.

[Leo the Dog]

Very high... especially considering the audience. Downtown Phoenix (44M) has a much larger worker base, whereas Tempe has essentially nothing except for students, teachers, and US Airways.

ASU has out-of-state students from wealthy families. $1550/2, while steep in comparison to other options, isn't that much for a 2 bedroom.

[nickw252]

Seems a bit high for me but what do I know?

It seems about right to me but I'd have to see the square footages. I was paying $1,300 for a one bed (1,000 sq ft) apartment in downtown Phoenix.

If these one bedrooms are about 1,000 sq ft then the prices seem about right.

[Jsmscaleros]

Rich parents buy their kids spaces in The Vale, Grigio Metro, Grigio Town Lake, and even those brownstones in the Riverside neighborhood. I've seen freshman get arrested at toga party in one of those ultra-modern lofts on Roosevelt north of University, and plenty of other parties that are obviously college undergrads.

These places will be crawling with students.

[DaveInTHX]

Just got the sizes on the W6 Condos for rent, if you're curious:

Studio - 465 square feet - $945/month
One Bedroom - 633 square feet - $1175/month
Two Bedroom - 891 square feet - $1550/month
Three Bedroom - 1241 square feet - $1995/month

Also, NOT included is parking, which will run $80 per month. They've got a new leasing center on Mill & 6th Street (in the old American Apparel). And according to the salesperson, the 3 bedroom units are almost gone.

[Don B.]

^ Absurd pricing for Arizona. California prices for Arizona real estate.

Meanwhile, I pay $575 per month (which includes all utilities) for a 840-square-foot newly remodeled one-bedroom right at 16th Street and Glendale. 5 minutes to downtown, 10 minutes to Tempe, with better hiking and biking on the canal and Squaw Peak opportunities.

I pay 68 cents per square foot, in an extremely walkable area (walkscore 72):

Very Walkable, 7141 N 16th St Phoenix

Or you can pay three times as much - $1.86 per square foot to be on Mill Avenue in Tempe (walkscore 98):

Walker’s Paradise, 566 S Mill Ave Tempe

I could see paying more, but not three times more. Maybe 1.5 times as much, or even twice on a bad day.

--don

[Jsmscaleros]

Don, you're also not a rich undergrad with parents who want their kids to have the very best. I agree it sounds high, but this developer is tapping into the wealthy trendies that will pay more to be noticed... and you can see these buildings from almost anywhere in the valley.

I'm not a betting man, but I'd bet that those towers will do just fine. I look at the VUE on Apache as a miniature example.

[plinko]

Just got the sizes on the W6 Condos for rent, if you're curious:

Studio - 465 square feet - $945/month
One Bedroom - 633 square feet - $1175/month
Two Bedroom - 891 square feet - $1550/month
Three Bedroom - 1241 square feet - $1995/month

Also, NOT included is parking, which will run $80 per month. They've got a new leasing center on Mill & 6th Street (in the old American Apparel). And according to the salesperson, the 3 bedroom units are almost gone.

I don't think this is unreasonable for a building of this type in that location. For comparison sake (of which there are few examples of high-rise rentals in Phoenix), the rents in the Camelback Towers (now the Landmark) 10 years ago were about 75% of these amounts (though that did include parking). And that building was 40 years old 10 years ago.

My guess is that most of the studios and maybe 1/2 the 1 bedrooms will be rented by early 20s professionals. Most of the rest will be multiple students sharing units with a very small number of urban families thrown in.

BTW, even for students this is not California pricing. Just for reference, most apartments (I'm talking ghetto apartments with no view) in Isla Vista near UCSB run about $1000/mo/bedroom. The typical three bedroom gets $3000/mo and many times they pack in 6 students to an apartment.

[bwonger06]

Not a bad price... Vista Del Sol and Campus Suites costs about $700-800 per head in a shared unit. These things should be equal to that if given the right amenities (are utilities included?)

[Don B.]

^ Does not include parking or utilities.

Plinko, I think you've been in California too long. Come back down to Earth. You can buy houses all over Phoenix for $15,000 to $25,000 in a number of areas, and $50,000 to $80,000 in a decent area.

Considering that real estate prices here are down to late 1980s values, these people are smoking crack. Good luck with ripping off those ASU students now...

--don

[Leo the Dog]

^ Does not include parking or utilities.

Plinko, I think you've been in California too long. Come back down to Earth. You can buy houses all over Phoenix for $15,000 to $25,000 in a number of areas, and $50,000 to $80,000 in a decent area.

Considering that real estate prices here are down to late 1980s values, these people are smoking crack. Good luck with ripping off those ASU students now...

--don

Don,

Do you know much are out-of-state students paying for tuition to go to ASU?
One could grab a roomie and pay $775 for a 2 bed, walk to class, no need for parking at either ASU or home.

[combusean]

The prices are high, but comparing them to shit real estate values for shit houses in shit neighborhoods doesn't make sense. The vast majority of ASU students aren't in a position to buy. The rent you are paying at 16th St and Glendale is irrelevant. The only people that would have anything to do with ASU near 16th St and Glendale are living with their parents paying no rent, barely have a job, and have a hellish commute.

[DaveInTHX]

They finally knocked down the last buildings yesterday on the block that was supposed to be University Square (University and Forrest). I assume they'll use the entire space for parking? If so, I'm hoping they'll plant some trees around the perimeter, like they've been doing at other parking lots throughout downtown Tempe. At least a little green to cut down the heat island these things become...

[dtnphx]

Demand high for Tempe's West 6th luxury apartments
by Dianna M. Náñez, The Arizona Republic

The bird's-eye views from the long-stalled high-rises in downtown Tempe were stunning enough to draw gasps from those who took a guided tour last week of West 6th luxury apartments.

Last week marked the first time prospective renters could tour the units since Tempe's tallest buildings were sold to Zaremba Group and the project was converted from high-end condominiums to apartments. The scheduled tours of about 25 people were booked through the week, said Capstone Companies leasing agent Preston Baehr. Despite the still-lagging real-estate market, demand for the apartments is high, he said.

The 10 three-bedroom units in the 22-story tower, which is expected to be open by August, were leased within in the first five hours Capstone started accepting applications. The units, at $1,995 a month, are the most affordable for roommates to share. Studios start at $945, one-bedrooms at $1,175 and two-bedrooms at $1,550.

Bob Kammrath, of Mesa real-estate research firm Kammrath & Associates, said the property is benefiting from the buzz of being the new kid on the block. West 6th is also getting a marketing boost because of the years of publicity surrounding the towers since the project broke ground six years ago as Centerpoint Condominiums, he said.

When the real-estate market was flush, Centerpoint's studios were slated to sell at prices beginning in the mid $300,000s and larger units beginning at $1 million.

Kammrath said the initial interest in the apartments could help fill the first wave of units, but suggested Zaremba may have difficulty filling the majority of its inventory. Once the 30-story Tower II is completed in December, West 6th is expected to have 375 units. Kammerath said the project will face competition from the flood of affordable rental homes available in the Phoenix metro area.

"Houses are much bigger than any apartment," he said. "Frequently you find tenants who are bundling up, (and saying) three or four of us can rent . . . a house that has three bathrooms and I get my own private swimming pool rather than a community pool."

But Baehr, a Tempe resident and Arizona State University graduate, says the students and Valley residents who are lining up to rent at West 6th are looking for a different lifestyle compared with the average home renter.

"We knew there was going to be demand but it's far exceeded our expectations," he said. "You're paying for the entire experience. The incredible views as far as you can see. The incredible pool deck, our spa, our tanning facilities, our gym that is going to be all brand new, state-of-the-art equipment."

West 6th's development plan includes penthouses on the top floors, underground parking, a conference and study area and mixed retail that could include a small grocery store and restaurant.

Nico Svoboda, a 22-year-old ASU student, applied for a three-bedroom apartment without seeing it in person. His was among a three-page deep list of applications.

Svoboda joked that waiting to hear on his application was "more stressful than school."

While on his first tour of the apartments last Wednesday, Svoboda snapped photos from the window of a 17th-floor unit one floor below his future home. On the tour, prospective renters called Svoboda "one of the lucky ones" to have secured a three-bedroom to share with roommates.

"I wanted to be able to live somewhere cool my senior year," he said. "I'd consider this the ultimate."

Svoboda said he was looking forward to "being able to walk onto my balcony and see that view. And honestly, be able to see the building at a distance and say I live there."

Joy and Ron Clark, 56, were on the same tour as Svoboda. The couple are eager to trade in their Ahwatukee home for a West 6th unit.

"We're looking for high-rise living," Joy said. "The kids are grown, we don't want a pool to keep up with, we don't need all that space. We want to have a sexy house."

Ron said he finds the urban lifestyle more attractive than suburban living.

"I was born and raised in Tempe. I own a business just near here. I'd bike to work," he said. "I think this is great for Tempe."

The high-rises are a landmark change in development for Tempe and the Valley, said Adolfo Salazar who moved about two years ago to Arizona from Hollywood. Salazar hopes to rent a two-bedroom unit.

"I've never seen anything like it before in Arizona," he said. "People in California don't expect Arizona to have anything like this. This is what we need more of in Phoenix."

[HX_Guy]

Awesome! Who would of thought?

[PHX31]

I wonder what happened with that guy that posted here occasionally that bought one of the condos. I'd like to know what happened with his money and whether or not he'll be living there when it opens.

[dtnphx]

Awesome! Who would of thought?

I'm glad about this too. At some point in the future, I can definately see these going condo. Perhaps just the smaller building and the other stays rental. I think the scale of this project was a bit too much for Tempe, but now that they're built, they could be a catalyst for further projects in the future. Here to hope!

[Phxguy]

If everythingfalls through with this project, it'll be proof that there is demand to build high rise residential buildings in the valley. Like someone else mentioned this project, if successful, could provide the foundation of Tempe's high rise boom.

[Jsmscaleros]

The view from those towers is gnarly and likely won't ever be obstructed (at least not entirely). If you're on the east side, you also have a bird's eye view of all the street festivals and events that frequently happen on Mill.

The popularity of rental inquiries has to be music to the ears of Robbie Foxes, Mellow Mushroom, and all the other businesses within line of sight of these towers.

[Jsmscaleros]

Tempe's modern streetcar just got sexier with the possibility of brand new, battery powered vehicles...

http://www.sofa-connect.org/connected/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9&p=71#p71

I'm pooling info and resources on the project at the above link. If any of you live or frequent the downtown Tempe area, feel free to join the website.

[HooverDam]

^Call me crazy but I kind of like overhead wires. Something very 'big city' about them to me, though I know I'm probably in the minority on this one and rail projects are more likely to be approved if NIMBYS can't bitch about the 'ugly wires.

[combusean]

Batteries will drive up operational and environmental costs. It's a bad idea.

[Tempe_Duck]

^Call me crazy but I kind of like overhead wires. Something very 'big city' about them to me, though I know I'm probably in the minority on this one and rail projects are more likely to be approved if NIMBYS can't bitch about the 'ugly wires.


I agree with you Hoover. They do seem big cityish.

[Classical in Phoenix]

I agree, I like the overhead lines, especially in dense urban settings.

[Jsmscaleros]

Tempe Town Lake's new pedestrian bridge is finally starting to take shape. The bridge spans have been delivered to the site:

http://www.sofa-connect.org/connected/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21#p35

[ciweiss]

Tempe Town Lake's new pedestrian bridge is finally starting to take shape. The bridge spans have been delivered to the site:

http://www.sofa-connect.org/connected/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21#p35

I heard it will be finished in August.

[SethAZ]

There is work being done between Farmer and Ash (by the train tracks) north of University to 5th Street. There is a sign that says Farmers Arts District with the name of the construction company and a permit number. Foundation work was being done when I saw it. I know this project has been on the table for a while, but it looks like it's actually happening.

[ciweiss]

There is work being done between Farmer and Ash (by the train tracks) north of University to 5th Street. There is a sign that says Farmers Arts District with the name of the construction company and a permit number. Foundation work was being done when I saw it. I know this project has been on the table for a while, but it looks like it's actually happening.

If it looks this picture I think it will be cool. To bad Mosaic died. I needs me a grocery store.

http://www.weknowurban.com/Tempe/Farmers-Art-District/

[ciweiss]

If it looks this picture I think it will be cool. To bad Mosaic died. I needs me a grocery store.

http://www.weknowurban.com/Tempe/Farmers-Art-District/

I went by the trailer/office and it says Encore on Farmer. 56 residences for seniors. Completion set for Dec 2011. It does not appear to be the same as above but who knows. They also show a website of www.encoreonfarmer.com but it does not appear to be up yet.

[Jsmscaleros]

I live a couple blocks from this and will post photos soon. This empty lot had bugged people for a long time. It's a shame no residents have commented yet on this thread that was posted a few weeks ago that dealt with development concepts for this area: http://www.sofa-connect.org/connected/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31

I guess it's a moot point now that it's being developed.

[Vicelord John]

I won't hold my breath. It would seem like an expensive piece of land and a bad location for senior housing. As for more housing, they can't sell or rent what is already built in that area so I think a developer would be scared to build more.

[Jsmscaleros]

You kiddin'? Condo sales are certainly down, but apparently West Sixth is pre-renting like crazy. Those brownstone units on Farmer are have a high occupancy percentage, as well.

I also thought a senior community would be out of place in downtown Tempe, but like West Sixth, it would be filling a niche you can't find elsewhere in the valley. It'll be good to have seniors bring some karmic balance to all the rich kids surrounding them - diversity is good in my book. They've broken ground already anyway, so we'll see how it plays out. Photos coming...

[MegaBass]

ASU's ISTB IV just installed it's last piece of structural steel on the building yesterday.

[MegaBass]

Anything sure beats a dirt lot. ASU downtown is empty during the summer, but that was definitely a great addition to dt phx.

I wasn't specifically suggesting that Phx should build student housing along E. Wash, just that the city of phx should look to Tempe for great TODs. Tempe has the head start and is leading the way when it comes to TOD.

I know this is a bit dated but now with Winter Sessions axed for a Fall Break in ASU's academic calendar and the increasing tuition I think more coeds are going to look to get ahead and stay for Summer Sessions.

[Jsmscaleros]

Town Lake pedestrian bridge is coming together. follow the whole thing here: http://www.sofa-connect.org/connected/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21

http://www.sofa-connect.org/Images/Posts/4-29PedBridge1.jpg

http://www.sofa-connect.org/Images/Posts/4-29PedBridge2.jpg

http://www.sofa-connect.org/Images/Posts/4-29PedBridge3.jpg

[Jsmscaleros]

I took a tour of West Sixth on Saturday. I did a lot of brain-picking and photo-taking. Check it out: http://www.sofa-connect.org/connected/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19&start=10

Also, photos of Encore on Farmer's ground-breaking: http://www.sofa-connect.org/connected/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39

[dtnphx]

I took a tour of West Sixth on Saturday. I did a lot of brain-picking and photo-taking. Check it out: http://www.sofa-connect.org/connected/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19&start=10

Also, photos of Encore on Farmer's ground-breaking: http://www.sofa-connect.org/connected/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39

Nice photos, thanks for sharing!:yes:

[ciweiss]

I guess prices were not much of an issue....

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/local/tempe/article_fb03c998-75dd-11e0-bf68-001cc4c002e0.html

Tempe high-rise apartments 40% leased after 1 month

Garin Groff

The West 6th Tempe condos will open for tours to prospective renters starting this week, only a month after construction resumed to complete the towers.


The West 6th Tempe apartments are 40 percent leased in the first month of leasing efforts at the East Valley’s tallest buildings, according to the project’s managers.

Leases have been signed for all the three-bedroom units as well all two-bedroom and three-bedroom penthouses.

Leasing began March 28 on the 189 units of Tower I at West 6th, which had sat unfinished for three years after financing woes stalled the Centerpoint Condominiums project.

Work is continuing on the 22-story and 30-story towers in downtown Tempe, and Tower I should be ready for occupancy on Aug. 1. The second tower is scheduled to open in January. Rents begin at $945 for a studio.

Leasing offices are open 11 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday through Wednesday and 11 a.m. to 8 p.m. Thursday through Saturday at 526 S. Mill Ave.

[Leo the Dog]

I took a tour of West Sixth on Saturday. I did a lot of brain-picking and photo-taking. Check it out: http://www.sofa-connect.org/connected/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19&start=10

Also, photos of Encore on Farmer's ground-breaking: http://www.sofa-connect.org/connected/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39

Great tour, much appreciated!

[ciweiss]

http://www.urbanrealtyaz.com/Blog/Downtown_Tempe_Lofts_and_Condos_Blog/Entries/2011/5/7_Downtown_Tempe_Seeks_Hip_Older_Crowd_.html

More info on the senior housing


http://www.tempe.gov/planning/DRCr_FarmerArtsSeniorHousing_092810.pdf

[PHX31]

I can't think of a worse place to put senior housing... right near Mill Ave/college kids/gameday tailgating shenanigans.

[mitchk]

I like the idea of senior housing here. There is a real New Urbanism feel growing in the whole farmer/ash neighborhoods, and to have a true New Urbanism movement you have to have diversity of ages. This, the recent live/work brownstones and condos, and the street improvements are all welcome additions.

[PHX31]

Until they start complaining about lights and noise and ruining the college/urban vibe of the area.

[MegaBass]

Some news on ASU's process towards Student Recreation Center Expansion/Renovation

http://www.facebook.com/pages/ASU-Tempe-Rec-Facility-Building-Your-Vision/125963537480622 (SRC expansion Facebook page)

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll4j2rB9fp1qcp22n.jpg

Expansion on the existing SRC.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll4j38eJJJ1qcp22n.jpg

Expansion on Physical Education West. This one makes little sense to me since they just finished a Memorial Union Dock Expansion that now this would again render it down.

Here's a dated report on PE West. It was also rumored to be apart of the MU Expansion.

PE West current home for intramural court play (big enough for 3 basketball courts or 4 volleyball courts), is slated to be torn down for academic buildings. That would leave the SRC as the only court space for intramurals. The SRC’s largest informal usage increase in the month of September was the SRC courts. There were 5,000 more participants in the month of Sept. 09 then in Sept 08. At times students are waiting to play basketball for over an hour.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll4j3iVtWf1qcp22n.jpg

SRC North. This one is intriguing. Right on Sixth and Alpha Drive.

[PHX31]

I think they should just expand on/at the existing SRC... keep it centralized rather than spread things across campus.

Re: PE West. When I was a freshman at ASU (1997) they had just torn down one of the PE West buildings (the one closest to the MU). That lot sat vacant for my remaining years at ASU. I'm not sure what is there now, but it seems like that is too small of an area. And I would hope they don't tear down any more of the PE buildings, whatever is left. I seem to remember that was where the gymnastics teams practiced (?) or at least some dance troupes (?). But it was a fairly cool old school gym. I even had an archery class in the PE West building. It was pretty cool shooting targets across the basketball court.

[dtnphx]

What's with the pointing at the models? That's so dorkass.

[PHX31]

lol, yeah. I'm assuming students came up with the ideas for a project and they're pointing at their creations.

[MegaBass]

I think they should just expand on/at the existing SRC... keep it centralized rather than spread things across campus.

Re: PE West. When I was a freshman at ASU (1997) they had just torn down one of the PE West buildings (the one closest to the MU). That lot sat vacant for my remaining years at ASU. I'm not sure what is there now, but it seems like that is too small of an area. And I would hope they don't tear down any more of the PE buildings, whatever is left. I seem to remember that was where the gymnastics teams practiced (?) or at least some dance troupes (?). But it was a fairly cool old school gym. I even had an archery class in the PE West building. It was pretty cool shooting targets across the basketball court.

It was a temporary office/ trailer for bus employees. If you look at Google Maps Satelite view the MU Dock Expansion just finished. Doesn't make much sense since it was much space allocated for them. I'm assuming now that the rest of it will turn into bike parking space. The gymnastics/ dance is PE East. That one for sure won't go. PE West is older and has some interesting stuff like the old scoreboard when back in the day ASC was called the Bulldogs. I think they do need to build the North one if the demand from students exceeds until 1am just to have a pickup game and what not.

[PHX31]

It was a temporary office/ trailer for bus employees. If you look at Google Maps Satelite view the MU Dock Expansion just finished. Doesn't make much sense since it was much space allocated for them. I'm assuming now that the rest of it will turn into bike parking space. The gymnastics/ dance is PE East. That one for sure won't go. PE West is older and has some interesting stuff like the old scoreboard when back in the day ASC was called the Bulldogs. I think they do need to build the North one if the demand from students exceeds until 1am just to have a pickup game and what not.

What's going on at the MU? Dock expansion, meaning for trucks and what not? I'm looking at the satellite view and it looks like there's a semi-circular concrete slab on the old open empty piece of land just east of the MU (where some part of PE West used to be). What is that?

[Tito714]

I was on campus today, and they just reopened that part, it seems to me like its a walkway to get from the southside of the MU to Orange Mall, and points north. i know students would get in the way trying to cut through the loading dock.

They also fenced off the Business fountain, i think thats for landscaping though. but a lot seems to be going down there.

[Tempe_Duck]

I was on campus today, and they just reopened that part, it seems to me like its a walkway to get from the southside of the MU to Orange Mall, and points north. i know students would get in the way trying to cut through the loading dock.

They also fenced off the Business fountain, i think thats for landscaping though. but a lot seems to be going down there.

The fountain is fences off because they are changing the drainage. The current drainage for the entire lowered sections goes under the tennis courts and the SRC fields. They are redirecting the drainage due to the fact that the new business building is planned to replace the tennis courts. This is to allow the constriction for that building.

Or that is at least why my brother and I have figured out. He works for the SRC and verified the part about the drainage. I just connected the dots for the rest of it.

[MegaBass]

How serious is this New Business building that would be at SRC tennis courts? I noticed a blog posted some photos of the building but ASU took down their link to the project. If it was to be built with the SRC Expansion it would significantly reduce available tennis courts down quite a bit for students.

On other news I noticed a couple weeks before the semester ended that there was so remodeling going on at the Brickyard's Borders. Any word on what's going on there? Even bumped into this today http://labs.asu.edu/project/asu-tempe-campus-brickyard-borders-remodeling-and-construction

[SethAZ]

The corner of 4th and Mill where Sammy's was and before that a Vietnamese place, and before that a pizza place, and before that, etc etc etc is now going to be a place called Fuzzy's Taco Shop.

From their Facebook page: Fuzzy's Taco Shop is a fast casual restaurant with a Baja inspired menu including breakfast burritos, big salads, fish tacos, sandwiches, cold beer and great margaritas. Great for the family, business lunch or going to meet friends!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fuzzys-Taco-Shop-Tempe/179460342100684

http://www.fuzzystacoshop.com/index.html

[SethAZ]

I heard this but haven't been able to confirm yet that the city is moving the antennas from the top of A Mountain to the top of West 6th (which was always the plan even back in the Centerpoint days). The city is going to repair the steps to the summit of A Mountain and build a 200 square foot observation platform on top.

[PHX31]

/\ That sounds great.

Now if they could remove the unsightly water tanks that scar every butte in Tempe, we'd really be on to something.

[Leo the Dog]

I heard this but haven't been able to confirm yet that the city is moving the antennas from the top of A Mountain to the top of West 6th (which was always the plan even back in the Centerpoint days). The city is going to repair the steps to the summit of A Mountain and build a 200 square foot observation platform on top.

I remember reading an article about that many months ago...should eventually happen now that that project is moving forward yet again.

[MegaBass]

EVT article on A Mountain

Tempe Butte gets on register of historic places


Associated Press - May 17, 2011 7:34 AM ET

MESA, Ariz. (AP) - A desert hill in Tempe that towers over Arizona State University's Sun Devil Stadium has been added to the National Register of Historic Places.

The East Valley Tribune reports that Tempe Butte joins more than 40 other Tempe buildings and places on the national register.

The butte is where the Hohokam Indians lived thousands of years ago.

It is Tempe's highest geographic point and a popular destination for hikers today.

The appearance of the butte will change later this year when Tempe plans to remove its communication towers and relocate them.

Tempe also plans to build a 200-square-foot observation deck at the butte's top and repair steps leading to the summit. Those projects aren't yet funded.

Hopefully now with the Historic designation this means that the 'A' gets the protection that it needs from those uofa students/fans. I would be fine with the tradition only if we were able to get to their without being reprehended by officials.

[Jsmscaleros]

Anyone have a rendering of the new deck?

[TempeSilverFox]

Hi Everyone, I have some photos I want to share with you all. I was trying to post them directly on here and was becoming increasingly frustrated with the process. SO... I'm going to just leave a link to my Flickr page.

The pictures include shots of the new Encore on Farmer project- which is moving FAST, some shots of West Sixth- as seen from Chase Parking Tower 2, and also some pics of the beautiful new pedestrian bridge at the west end of Town Lake. I talked to a staffer at the Tempe Center for the Arts the other day and they said the bridge should be complete by mid/ late July. Can't wait!

Enjoy the pictures.
Ben

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63271296@N07/

[MegaBass]

Great photos TempeSilverFox. I'd suggest for some photos of ASU's Health Services. That expansion project is really picking up steam right now.

[dtnphx]

Thanks for the update, Silverfox.

[plinko]

That pedestrian bridge is a total eye-catcher.

[MegaBass]

http://youtu.be/p5XZWm8CUtc

Video of the transportation of the second section.

[Leo the Dog]

I'm very impressed by the pedestrian bridge. Looks great!

[HooverDam]

when is the pedestrian bridge expected to be complete? I'm going to be home for a visit in September and hope its done by then so I can take a jaunt across it or at least see it.

[DaveInTHX]

From the AZ Republic today... they finally sold the land where Mosaic was supposed to go...

http://www.azcentral.com/community/tempe/articles/2011/05/26/20110526tempe-parcel-sale-gentle-strength0527.html

[MegaBass]

when is the pedestrian bridge expected to be complete? I'm going to be home for a visit in September and hope its done by then so I can take a jaunt across it or at least see it.

It'll hopefully be done by August barring no setbacks. IDK why they took so long to get it going. It was suppose to start like February and would of been completed this month.

[TempeSilverFox]

It'll hopefully be done by August barring no setbacks. IDK why they took so long to get it going. It was suppose to start like February and would of been completed this month.

You're right, it was supposed to start earlier, but due to the above average rainfall that our state received this winter, they couldn't safely start the project until the Salt River's flow subsided. A Tempe Center for the Arts employee advised me last week that the project should be completed in mid/ late July!

I'd love it if the city would build a bridge at the east dam as well, to create a perfect circuit of Town Lake!

[MegaBass]

Some good news on the Hayden Flour Mill

By Garin Groff, Tribune | 1 comment
The Hayden Flour Mill has stood as one of Tempe’s most iconic buildings for more than 90 years, but its reputation in the last decade has been more of a hazardous eyesore.
The last decade was also a time of redevelopment proposals that went nowhere, which has triggered the city to revive the historic site on its own.
The plans are modest:
A coat of paint on the mill.
A lawn.
Movie screenings in the evening.
While the most recent redevelopment plan would involve $500 million, this will come in at about perhaps $350,000.
A developer will eventually step forward but the city wasn’t willing to leave the site fenced off indefinitely, said Chris Anaradian, Tempe’s community development director.
“One of the lessons we’re learning from the recession is you don’t have to have a big gigantic plan to do a project,” Anaradian said. “It’s OK to do things incrementally.”
Even a simple improvement should boost the way the community feels about the place, he said. The fence surrounding it is plastered with images of grand downtown projects that won city approval but evaporated in the recession. Those images ringed many lots in Tempe but now only remain at a few sites where nothing happened, Anaradian said.
The improvements should help the sleepy stretch of Mill Avenue come to life and change visitors’ perceptions, said Nancy Hormann, executive director of the Downtown Tempe Community.
“I think that they’re going to look at it for what it is instead of considering it an eyesore,” Hormann said.
The city is working with the DTC and the Rio Salado Foundation on a project funded largely through donations and $70,000 from Tempe. The city’s involvement comes more than a decade after Tempe began working with developers to restore the mill and surround it with shops, offices, a hotel and restaurants. Tempe approved two projects that never came to fruition, and the city figures it will take several years before the economy will improve enough to entice development.
The site is especially costly to develop because of height and square footage restrictions, requirements to restore the mill and silos and a lack of infrastructure. All that adds $8 million to the cost of any development, Mayor Hugh Hallman said.
The economy will have to be running at full tilt before a developer will step forward, which Hallman figures will be three or four years.
The Rio Salado Foundation aims to raise $250,000 to $350,000 for the site as well as restoring the front of Monti’s La Casa Vieja across the street. Both were developed by Charles Trumbull Hayden and need to be tied together, Hallman said.
“Keep in mind this is the historic center of Tempe’s existence,” he said. “The mill is the reason Tempe exists as a city and gave rise to the commercial success that came afterward.”
Work is expected to start in early summer. The public won’t have access to the mill or silo, but at least they’ll be able to touch the outside walls when the park opens in the fall. Some additional features could be added depending on fundraising and community response, Anaradian said. But knowing most improvements will be temporary, the city isn’t aiming for luxury.
“We were always afraid to put grass in anywhere because then it’s hard to put a building on top of it,” Anardian said. “We don’t want this to be a park forever. But honestly, for the next five years, maybe it needs to be. And that’s OK.”

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/eastvalleytribune.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/4/70/a60/470a60c6-be52-5dfd-a085-c09876f62e63-revisions/4dcd836fd47e4.image.jpg

I hope they restore that Hayden Flour Mill lettering and that bag of flour as well.

[PHX31]

/\ I hope they restore the lettering, but leave the "ghost sign" flour bag as it is... making this sort of a park is a great idea. Much better than whoring it up with crappy looking condos.

[PHX31]

It would be cool if they could incorporate a few historical displays on the site of the Mill. I know they did a big archaeological survey right there, and when the light rail construction went through, there were archaeologists on site at all times. I personally saw them trench into several Hohokam burial sites when I worked on the light rail as an inspector. I saw several skeletons, intricate pots, hand-made jewelry, the old native american irrigation canals and about a trillion pottery sherds. Not to mention the historical original Tempe artifacts that came up in the digging like old whiskey and medicine bottles, and other various things.

If they could put some of this stuff on display that would be very cool, IMO. They could have a big display of some of the pre-historic stuff they found (related to the original native american settlements in the area), and they have a big display of the historic stuff they found (from the early 1900s, etc.). Most of this stuff is just sitting in storage. Sprucing up the Mill with a paint job, some lawns, projected movies, and historical displays of stuff they found near the Mill would be great.

It would be a good way to actually celebrate some of the rich history Tempe has that most people don't know about.

[azsunsurfer]

Yes I can see it now...."restore" the mill, turn it into a beacon of the community and a few years later when some developer has legitimate plans to redevelop the site a whole battle will ensue with the community to "save the mill!" A whole class warfare will breakout between the community that has now become attached to the mill as a public space against the greedy developers who the city originally had hoped would generate some much needed tax revenue and investment towards that part of Mill....

[plinko]

Yes I can see it now...."restore" the mill, turn it into a beacon of the community and a few years later when some developer has legitimate plans to redevelop the site a whole battle will ensue with the community to "save the mill!" A whole class warfare will breakout between the community that has now become attached to the mill as a public space against the greedy developers who the city originally had hoped would generate some much needed tax revenue and investment towards that part of Mill....

^and? If there's an easy fix that somehow allows the structure to be a community asset rather than a community eyesore, then so what? Plenty of other vacant land in Tempe for condos.

I've always hoped that the site would be redeveloped, but ONLY provided that the mill itself would remain in some capacity (as an adaptive re-use).

[MegaBass]

Stopped by the Pedestrian Bridge on Thursday. They're about ready to install the third section. Noticed on campus nearly all the other remaining buildings without rooftops solar plants were being installed. Student Services, Music Building, and so on. Quizno's is about to open by Mill/University and noticed another sandwich shop is situated not too far from them. Still not much word on what's going on with Border's but they cleared out everything inside.

[MegaBass]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/golf/articles/2011/06/07/20110607karsten-golf-course-asu-future.html

Article on future of ASU's Karsten Golf Course. Guess it sort of explains my question on what's going on with Border's and also parts of Centerpoint.

[phoenixwillrise]

You know I am all for saving buildings that have historical value, and look good, but I am sorry this mill is just butt ugly! I say nuke it, there is like a million of these types of buildings in the U.S. do we really need this eyesore as the entryway to Tempe? I wish someone had burned down this thing years ago.

[KEVINphx]

You know I am all for saving buildings that have historical value, and look good, but I am sorry this mill is just butt ugly! I say nuke it, there is like a million of these types of buildings in the U.S. do we really need this eyesore as the entryway to Tempe? I wish someone had burned down this thing years ago.

Yeah, I'm sure the MILL has no significance for MILL avenue and Tempe in general :rolleyes:


Good looks are subjective; combine that with your judgment on the importance of preserving the mill and I'm sure you can understand why most here are going to dismiss your opinion.


EDIT: That goes without touching on a lack of vision being demonstrated here. If you can't imagine this thing being renovated to something more attractive then I can only hope you have no career in design, urban planning, architecture or really anything aesthetic. . . just sayin'

[SunDevil]

Is this new. I may have skipped over it before.
http://www.riosaladoecodistrict.com/index.php
it's a colaborative project with ASU and Tempe, might shed a little more light on what's on the table for Karsten.

[MegaBass]

Is this new. I may have skipped over it before.
http://www.riosaladoecodistrict.com/index.php
it's a colaborative project with ASU and Tempe, might shed a little more light on what's on the table for Karsten.

Wow good find where did you find this? Looks exactly as I heard the rumors of SDS successor. Its going to be smaller but will have a shade structure looming over it. Looks like they're completely razing off the cavernous press box too which I bet broadcasters will be enthused about.

My concerns though are where are you going to park if they're going to build on Lot 59? Also where is Packard Stadium or its successor? Also building on Kaji Practice fields? Don't tell me they're going to move Baseball off campus to Phoenix Municipal again. Would be good too adding an Arts District since they failed to address any added space for the Program when that conglomerate Arts & Business Gateway by University and Mill was on the table.

[azliam]

Yeah, I'm sure the MILL has no significance for MILL avenue and Tempe in general :rolleyes:


Good looks are subjective; combine that with your judgment on the importance of preserving the mill and I'm sure you can understand why most here are going to dismiss your opinion.


EDIT: That goes without touching on a lack of vision being demonstrated here. If you can't imagine this thing being renovated to something more attractive then I can only hope you have no career in design, urban planning, architecture or really anything aesthetic. . . just sayin'

While it's true that not all of us plan to have a career in design, urban planning, etc..., I would like to imagine the mill being renovated too, but neither you nor anybody else has even offered to design what the renovated mill could look like, yet you are expecting that we use our imagination, so give the guy a break. Until then, while the mill has historic value, it IS and has been an eyesore.

[SunDevil]

Wow good find where did you find this? Looks exactly as I heard the rumors of SDS successor. Its going to be smaller but will have a shade structure looming over it. Looks like they're completely razing off the cavernous press box too which I bet broadcasters will be enthused about.

My concerns though are where are you going to park if they're going to build on Lot 59? Also where is Packard Stadium or its successor? Also building on Kaji Practice fields? Don't tell me they're going to move Baseball off campus to Phoenix Municipal again. Would be good too adding an Arts District since they failed to address any added space for the Program when that conglomerate Arts & Business Gateway by University and Mill was on the table.

I would assume that the long term goal is to move (ie: build new) athletic facilities to open space, were Karsten to be bulldozed. Of course, that doesn't include Sun Devil Stadium... gotta play between the buttes! I would hope they leave some room for tailgating!

[Tempe_Duck]

I would assume that the long term goal is to move (ie: build new) athletic facilities to open space, were Karsten to be bulldozed. Of course, that doesn't include Sun Devil Stadium... gotta play between the buttes! I would hope they leave some room for tailgating!

I think they should do something similar to the Great Lawn at the Cardinal Stadium. During the off days it could be a park/SRC field.

[phoenixwillrise]

Well Kevin if you read the Republic today looks like I am not the only one that says tear that thing down. I could go for a compromise though if they could retain it and in an altered state like those people from NORCAL who were going to do a winery thing there, just as long as most of that butt ugly thing was hidden from the street. I would admit if they could do some ultra cool thing like fill that beast silo with M'M'S and have a glass shoot sliding that shit down from the silo would be pretty trippy and cool. Another idea so you can retain the name MIll ave without going through withdrawals Kevin, is dissassemble this beast and put it at the other end of Mill Ave in Kiwanis Park or something and make a huge slide for little kids or something. Hey, it's great that this thing is 125 years old, but do you realize there is like 10,000 of these things in he midwest? Tourist who come here from all over the midwest must say to themselves, what is that piece of shit doing at the entryway to beautiful downntown Tempe?

[combusean]

History is a lot more than a pile of bricks that make up a building or the layed concrete in the silos. It's as contextual as anything else. Both of your ideas are terrible and I feel like I'm being trolled, but I've bitten anyway.

Why should anyone give one rat's ass about whether something exists in the Midwest or not? Most of the historic buildings and neighborhoods here are a dime a dozen in other cities.

I am really sick of Midwesterners telling Arizonans what to do with their historic buildings and structures, becoming their own end-all authority on what to preserve here and what to demolish. It's really annoying. It's like they want to make all of AZ as decayed, white-bred, and boring as wherever the hell they're from.

[westbev93]

Lots of historic structures have been eyesores in the past. Then they are fixed up to preserve our past for today and tomorrow. This is particularly important with respect to things that are not merely old, but important pieces of local history like the Hayden Mill. I'm from Ohio. There are admittedly tons of these dotting the small farm towns there and elsewhere in the Midwest. But this is the only one in Tempe. And if not for that mill and the adjacent ferry crossing, Tempe would not have existed. Tempe grew up around that Mill. It's important save that link the beginnings of Tempe. I guess we disagree about what should be at the gateway to Tempe. Personally, I think the historic mill is the perfect gateway to Tempe rather than another new office or condo building.

I'm tired of hearing people tell me that things around Phoenix/Tempe/AZ in general are not old enough or unique enough to be historic and preserved. That excuse has already wiped away most of our local history. I am hopeful that we will collectively change our attitude and save this important landmark. If we compare our structures to other places, there will always be something older. But because there is an older [insert name of anything] in the Midwest or back East, does that mean we shouldn't save it? Using that logic, we should tear everything in America down because there is something older in Europe.

Preferably, the mill would be preserved and re-used in some way. But short of that, I'd rather the damn thing sit vacant like it is now rather than have it razed for another dirt lot or glass tower.

[combusean]

^ QFT. thank you.

[KEVINphx]

Lots of historic structures have been eyesores in the past. Then they are fixed up to preserve our past for today and tomorrow. This is particularly important with respect to things that are not merely old, but important pieces of local history like the Hayden Mill. I'm from Ohio. There are admittedly tons of these dotting the small farm towns there and elsewhere in the Midwest. But this is the only one in Tempe. And if not for that mill and the adjacent ferry crossing, Tempe would not have existed. Tempe grew up around that Mill. It's important save that link the beginnings of Tempe. I guess we disagree about what should be at the gateway to Tempe. Personally, I think the historic mill is the perfect gateway to Tempe rather than another new office or condo building.

I'm tired of hearing people tell me that things around Phoenix/Tempe/AZ in general are not old enough or unique enough to be historic and preserved. That excuse has already wiped away most of our local history. I am hopeful that we will collectively change our attitude and save this important landmark. If we compare our structures to other places, there will always be something older. But because there is an older [insert name of anything] in the Midwest or back East, does that mean we shouldn't save it? Using that logic, we should tear everything in America down because there is something older in Europe.

Preferably, the mill would be preserved and re-used in some way. But short of that, I'd rather the damn thing sit vacant like it is now rather than have it razed for another dirt lot or glass tower.

Precisely! Thank you for the well-stated response.

While it's true that not all of us plan to have a career in design, urban planning, etc..., I would like to imagine the mill being renovated too, but neither you nor anybody else has even offered to design what the renovated mill could look like, yet you are expecting that we use our imagination, so give the guy a break. Until then, while the mill has historic value, it IS and has been an eyesore.


I believe the response from Westbev quoted above explains quite well why you shouldn't need a career in design to understand this. I was initially just making a point about individuals aesthetic opinions; but honestly, you don't need a career or education in design to use your imagination to visualize the place as something different. I suppose that is something I've never really understood though; kind of like people who can't visualize a building by it's floor plan. :rolleyes:

Also, no one here really should need to suggest a renovation for the mill, we are simply discussing the POTENTIAL. Relatively detailed information about what the city plans to do has been released and if you can't IMAGINE that, then that's your issue.