Tempe Development Thread

[combusean]

>And they failed 100 times before they got it right.

Huh? The only thing that failed was the 1987 Rio Salado Development District Vote, which Tempe voters supported so they went it alone.

>The dam failed.

It was under warranty. I'm sure the west dam was more expensive, but that was the correct design anyways (rubber bladders in the sun? what were they thinking?)

>And every single tower on the lake had to be massively subsidized because they ask the owners to pay an exorbitant cost for the lake through the lake district. So it has come at a steep price and it took forever.

... the lake is subsidized by the properties there, not the other way around. The only thing that's getting tax breaks (besides the would-be arena) is South Pier.

>So it has come at a steep price and it took forever.

I don't think that's come as a cut to services or otherwise affected anyone's quality of life. You can't say the same for Glendale saddled with Westgate debt or Mesa saddled by its own dumb dependence on sales taxes.

As for Phoenix, I'd be *very* curious to see what a redeveloped railyards would look like. Union Pacific can dump cars off almost anywhere, there's no reason for a huge yard to exist right across 7th from Downtown. And maybe if light rail goes west on Washington the state will realize what a gold mine its been handed with the property values and go gung-ho on redeveloping the area Same for the areas south. Tempe Town Lake is fine and all, but the actual riparian area is a more pleasant place to cool off, there's just no city nearby.

[admdavid]

I think the fact that Tempe is landlocked at this point tends to force the powers that be to really think and strategize about what will benefit the city and how to maximize the impact of every project. Phoenix, and to a smaller degree Mesa, don't yet have this issue so it's a "well, there's still plenty of land so whatever" kind of a situation.

[combusean]

^ That's pretty much it.

If Phoenix were contained within the 101 loop to the mountains, the core would look vastly different today. Even letting Ahwatukee develop organically as a western expanse of Tempe and Chandler would have noticeably shifted Phoenix's suburban culture towards those cities more.

I mean, Tempe's DRC has already shot down free-market midrise projects in the South Pier area because they understand they need density there, even when the area struggles to kickstart. You would never see that Downtown.

[MiEncanto]

>And they failed 100 times before they got it right.

Huh? The only thing that failed was the 1987 Rio Salado Development District Vote, which Tempe voters supported so they went it alone.

>The dam failed.

It was under warranty. I'm sure the west dam was more expensive, but that was the correct design anyways (rubber bladders in the sun? what were they thinking?)

>And every single tower on the lake had to be massively subsidized because they ask the owners to pay an exorbitant cost for the lake through the lake district. So it has come at a steep price and it took forever.

... the lake is subsidized by the properties there, not the other way around. The only thing that's getting tax breaks (besides the would-be arena) is South Pier.

>So it has come at a steep price and it took forever.

I don't think that's come as a cut to services or otherwise affected anyone's quality of life. You can't say the same for Glendale saddled with Westgate debt or Mesa saddled by its own dumb dependence on sales taxes.

As for Phoenix, I'd be *very* curious to see what a redeveloped railyards would look like. Union Pacific can dump cars off almost anywhere, there's no reason for a huge yard to exist right across 7th from Downtown. And maybe if light rail goes west on Washington the state will realize what a gold mine its been handed with the property values and go gung-ho on redeveloping the area Same for the areas south. Tempe Town Lake is fine and all, but the actual riparian area is a more pleasant place to cool off, there's just no city nearby.


I meant Tempe taxpayers had to subsidize every single tower on the lake. Every one got a GPLET, some for crazy long periods beyond just the abatement period. That was basically required because those properties have to pay for the lake district through the CFD. And those payments are enormous, in part because they kept kicking the debt to the right because they didn't get tenants fast enough and didn't get enough money flowing to the district early on. So the total cost of the lake ended up being several hundred million more than originally advertised. That's sorta what I meant by they failed 100 times. There were many problems associated with it, especially financially. And while the lake looks great now, it took a ton of taxpayer subsidy to get there, roundabout though it may be.

[DUPio]

The SEC of Myrtle and University is fenced off. I haven’t seen any mention of this site (perhaps I missed it). Anyone know what’s going on here?

[PHX31]

The SEC of Myrtle and University is fenced off. I haven’t seen any mention of this site (perhaps I missed it). Anyone know what’s going on here?

Unfortunately it's just going to be an empty lot. They razed the cool old buildings and there is no plan for new construction. Maybe it is going to be construction staging? I can't remember, but it was discussed a few pages back.

[Spitfiredude]

Umm… everyone forgot to mention that Tempe has an anchor tenant of ASU. Like clearly most of that development would not exist without it. Pretty much all of those high rise luxury apartments are full of students. Complete different demographic & why I left tempe in 2015 & why most 25+ age residents don’t live in Tempe.

The constant comparison of Tempe versus Phoenix here is strange.

[azsunsurfer]

Both Skye Tempe and The Marshall look so good! Skye for sure will help change that corner of University and Myrtle....it's a shame that ASU will have a big hole for what would be an awesome intersection....also it's going to be funny to see Shady Park sandwiched between both highrises!

[xymox]

As for Phoenix, I'd be *very* curious to see what a redeveloped railyards would look like. Union Pacific can dump cars off almost anywhere, there's no reason for a huge yard to exist right across 7th from Downtown. And maybe if light rail goes west on Washington the state will realize what a gold mine its been handed with the property values and go gung-ho on redeveloping the area Same for the areas south. Tempe Town Lake is fine and all, but the actual riparian area is a more pleasant place to cool off, there's just no city nearby.

Didn't they just get approval from Surprise to build a new rail yard up in the Wittman area along US-60 @211th Ave or somewhere like that? If so would they still need the downtown yard? Maybe this isn't so far off from happening...

[ASU Diablo]

Didn't they just get approval from Surprise to build a new rail yard up in the Wittman area along US-60 @211th Ave or somewhere like that? If so would they still need the downtown yard? Maybe this isn't so far off from happening...

The new DBacks ballpark should go here then... :cheers:

[ASU Diablo]

Both Skye Tempe and The Marshall look so good! Skye for sure will help change that corner of University and Myrtle....it's a shame that ASU will have a big hole for what would be an awesome intersection....also it's going to be funny to see Shady Park sandwiched between both highrises!

Link to renderings?

[muertecaza]

Both Skye Tempe and The Marshall look so good! Skye for sure will help change that corner of University and Myrtle....it's a shame that ASU will have a big hole for what would be an awesome intersection....also it's going to be funny to see Shady Park sandwiched between both highrises!

Link to renderings?

The Marshall (Apache, east of Rural):
https://i.imgur.com/Wgcx4tlh.png
https://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=102555&t=638216420084363011

Skye:
https://i.imgur.com/D3sEf5fh.png
https://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=102557&t=638216421491429079

[muertecaza]

Red zoning sign up for the Gonzalez-Martinez (né "Squatter") house lot:

https://i.imgur.com/VGSYBN6h.jpg

Pretty big stats for that lot - 210', 550 units, and only a .5 parking ratio.

Astute observers will note that the sign in the picture is on the lot across the street from the Gonzalez-Martinez house where The Lodge is. There are signs on both lots. Not sure, but my guess is that the development will somehow encompass both lots. The sign does not specify the corner where the development will go, and I don't think they could get 3.6 acres on just the Gonzalez-Martinez house lot. But that's just a guess so we'll see.

[Mr.RE]

Red zoning sign up for the Gonzalez-Martinez (né "Squatter") house lot:

https://i.imgur.com/VGSYBN6h.jpg

Pretty big stats for that lot - 210', 550 units, and only a .5 parking ratio.

Astute observers will note that the sign in the picture is on the lot across the street from the Gonzalez-Martinez house where The Lodge is. There are signs on both lots. Not sure, but my guess is that the development will somehow encompass both lots. The sign does not specify the corner where the development will go, and I don't think they could get 3.6 acres on just the Gonzalez-Martinez house lot. But that's just a guess so we'll see.

Maybe they intend to abandon the street because its a dead end or have that be the driveway entry to the parking garage? Would be cool to have a pass-through the building.

[locolife]

I don't think these are new to this group but some press on Skye and one without a name 211 E 7th street proposed at 29 floors.

The only details I can find on this are: A 29-story tower, proposed for 211 E. 7th St., will include 380 apartments and other uses. According to the Maricopa County Assessor's Office, an entity called College Enterprises Inc. is the owner of the 0.6-acre parcel where the project is proposed.

https://www.abc15.com/news/business/pair-of-apartment-towers-could-be-among-tallest-in-city-proposed-in-tempe

[locolife]

duplicate

[IndyAZ]

I don't think these are new to this group but some press on Skye and one without a name 211 E 7th street proposed at 29 floors.

I got a screen shot of the development by Trinitas, but definitely only looks to be about 24 floor in this image. I believe this is what was submitted for Design Review. Garage looks cheap in this, but luckily the 9-story brick building at College and 7th will completely hide the side profile of it.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52973668720_9f067f9007_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oH6U8S)

[azsunsurfer]

Wow looks like the DRC did not recommend approval for Skye Tempe

https://azbex.com/planning-development/two-apartment-tower-projects-planned-in-tempe/

[muertecaza]

Wow looks like the DRC did not recommend approval for Skye Tempe

https://azbex.com/planning-development/two-apartment-tower-projects-planned-in-tempe/

I only skimmed the video of the meeting, but looks like it was over parking ratio issues. Disappointing, I would have hoped we were past disallowing a .3 parking ratio at this point.

If anyone wants to watch:

https://tempe.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=6&clip_id=3663&meta_id=109070

[locolife]

Wow looks like the DRC did not recommend approval for Skye Tempe

https://azbex.com/planning-development/two-apartment-tower-projects-planned-in-tempe/

Easy fix w/ the pedestal building design or not so much?

[skiesthelimit]

I only skimmed the video of the meeting, but looks like it was over parking ratio issues. Disappointing, I would have hoped we were past disallowing a .3 parking ratio at this point.

If anyone wants to watch:

https://tempe.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=6&clip_id=3663&meta_id=109070

Ok I just watched this entire bit on Skye. It wasn’t simply due to parking ratio. It was in regards to the level of density the project was providing with lack of accessibility for resident service accessibility i.e. uber, lyft, doordash, moving trucks etc.. the project well surpasses the 175 parking space minimum with 275 total on paper but they will lose some due to the rearrangement of the garbage pickup area/aps yard. All 275 spaces are locked behind a gate and they intend to only provide 1 public space which is on street parking. Additionally in the alleyway which is already congested with big trucks, they intend to have only 1 moving truck loading space for the entire building. These issues will force service traffic onto Myrtle and cause traffic congestion once the building begins to be occupied. They also brought up concern with the adjacent Wells Fargo building project to the west with similar density having a very similar impact and also overworking the alleyway.

Overall, I agree with the remarks and concern for resident services. However, I think this is a very easy fix by simply allowing the first floor or two of the podium to be public parking/resident services. Provide like 5 rideshare/food drop off spots, maybe 10 or so consumer spots and try and rework for loading unloading for moving trucks to occur on the first floor of the podium rather than only in the alleyway.

There was also a push from one of the chairmen to have the site go through the archaeological testing/digging before starting construction that the developers said no to which didn’t help their case lol. I saw both sides where the site had already been built on so the developer did not feel it was necessary however the board’s reasoning was the stipulation never existed at the time of the current structure’s building and they were built at grade whereas this project might uncover some stuff.

They were all mostly in favor of it, but the concerns were too risky given the location thus it failed 4-3. If they take this into account and fix the concerns I could easily see this passing at city council. I still think it’ll pass regardless but don’t be surprised if Marbella or such comes swinging due to traffic concerns lol.

TLDR: big developer plans appropriately big building for downtown with inadequate access for residential services while disregarding cultural presence on site leaves bad taste in DRC mouths.

Also very very very big emphasis from the developer this is NOT intended to be student housing and they seem determined to make it so… however we know how all the other towers claiming the same have gone…

[Ttown5]

Ok I just watched this entire bit on Skye. It wasn’t simply due to parking ratio. It was in regards to the level of density the project was providing with lack of accessibility for resident service accessibility i.e. uber, lyft, doordash, moving trucks etc.. the project well surpasses the 175 parking space minimum with 275 total on paper but they will lose some due to the rearrangement of the garbage pickup area/aps yard. All 275 spaces are locked behind a gate and they intend to only provide 1 public space which is on street parking. Additionally in the alleyway which is already congested with big trucks, they intend to have only 1 moving truck loading space for the entire building. These issues will force service traffic onto Myrtle and cause traffic congestion once the building begins to be occupied. They also brought up concern with the adjacent Wells Fargo building project to the west with similar density having a very similar impact and also overworking the alleyway.

Overall, I agree with the remarks and concern for resident services. However, I think this is a very easy fix by simply allowing the first floor or two of the podium to be public parking/resident services. Provide like 5 rideshare/food drop off spots, maybe 10 or so consumer spots and try and rework for loading unloading for moving trucks to occur on the first floor of the podium rather than only in the alleyway.

There was also a push from one of the chairmen to have the site go through the archaeological testing/digging before starting construction that the developers said no to which didn’t help their case lol. I saw both sides where the site had already been built on so the developer did not feel it was necessary however the board’s reasoning was the stipulation never existed at the time of the current structure’s building and they were built at grade whereas this project might uncover some stuff.

They were all mostly in favor of it, but the concerns were too risky given the location thus it failed 4-3. If they take this into account and fix the concerns I could easily see this passing at city council. I still think it’ll pass regardless but don’t be surprised if Marbella or such comes swinging due to traffic concerns lol.

TLDR: big developer plans appropriately big building for downtown with inadequate access for residential services while disregarding cultural presence on site leaves bad taste in DRC mouths.

Also very very very big emphasis from the developer this is NOT intended to be student housing and they seem determined to make it so… however we know how all the other towers claiming the same have gone…


Looks like, in addition, some of the commissioners were afraid of the density in this area due to the issues regarding the amount of density in this block and the alleyway. One sentiment that I agree with is that there are a lot of similar blocky type high-rises submitted in this area. They were looking for more uniqueness/architectural elements/etc. which I agree with however might not be justifiable for the cost? Will be interesting to see if they come back with something new or if they don't need to do that (I'm not sure how the voting works in this regard, if they need the commissioners approval or not) but if they change the architectural elements and make the building more interesting that would be great.

[azsunsurfer]

Looks like, in addition, some of the commissioners were afraid of the density in this area due to the issues regarding the amount of density in this block and the alleyway. One sentiment that I agree with is that there are a lot of similar blocky type high-rises submitted in this area. They were looking for more uniqueness/architectural elements/etc. which I agree with however might not be justifiable for the cost? Will be interesting to see if they come back with something new or if they don't need to do that (I'm not sure how the voting works in this regard, if they need the commissioners approval or not) but if they change the architectural elements and make the building more interesting that would be great.

I think that its true that a lot of the buildings in that area look somewhat identical but I believe it's largely due to a) zoning and b) material costs. It's amazing that Tempe now is reaching a point where they can be super selective when reviewing its proposals now that there's so much activity happening in the City.

[Ttown5]

I think that its true that a lot of the buildings in that area look somewhat identical but I believe it's largely due to a) zoning and b) material costs. It's amazing that Tempe now is reaching a point where they can be super selective when reviewing its proposals now that there's so much activity happening in the City.

One of the commissioners actually said "these types of 100% lot coverage projects are perfect in Manhattan" which was wild to even have the words Manhattan and Tempe in the same sentence when referring to a project being proposed. Does anyone know next steps? I think it will still go to council and this is just a recommendation based off the commissions hearing and can still be passed even without the commissions recommendation for approval. This is a great project that I would actually consider looking to live in downtown. I wish Tempe had more condos... anyone know why there aren't?

[exit2lef]

One of the commissioners actually said "these types of 100% lot coverage projects are perfect in Manhattan" which was wild to even have the words Manhattan and Tempe in the same sentence when referring to a project being proposed.

I don't know the context, but in local conversations about planning and development, comparisons to NYC are usually a lazy way of saying no to density. "This isn't New York City" has become an annoying, hollow cliche used to resist positive change -- sometimes even in this forum. Of course, Phoenix and its suburbs aren't New York, but you don't have to aspire to be New York to see the value of increase density and urbanization.

[locolife]

I don't know the context, but in local conversations about planning and development, comparisons to NYC are usually a lazy way of saying no to density. "This isn't New York City" has become an annoying, hollow cliche used to resist positive change -- sometimes even in this forum. Of course, Phoenix and its suburbs aren't New York, but you don't have to aspire to be New York to see the value of increase density and urbanization.

Exactly, I don't want the crazy congestion of Manhattan streets either but to imply anything proposed in Tempe right now will lead to anything like a midtown, cross-town commute is a completely laughable.

[combusean]

I can see where they're coming from when all of these podium-parked, boxy towers are kind of the same but there's only so much developers can do with space and height constraints downtown and the market is so obviously geared towards rentals anyways both nationally and locally. I think entire banks going belly up because of their condo exposure in 2009 is fresh in *every* investor's mind.

If they want grassy condo and office towers they can move to somewhere else and time travel while they're at it. The office market is saturated anyways in Tempe.

[halicem]

I can see where they're coming from when all of these podium-parked, boxy towers are kind of the same but there's only so much developers can do with space and height constraints downtown and the market is so obviously geared towards rentals anyways both nationally and locally. I think entire banks going belly up because of their condo exposure in 2009 is fresh in *every* investor's mind.

If they want grassy condo and office towers they can move to somewhere else and time travel while they're at it. The office market is saturated anyways in Tempe.

When I was in the market for condos a few years ago, my realtor who specializes in them said it was due to 44 Monroe and Phoenix having to step in to save the project back in '09. So they passed a requirement that if you're bank-financing a condo development, it has to be 50% pre-sold before you get a permit. enHance Park got built because they were developer-financed and they hoped it would instill confidence in buyers so the next phases can get a decent pre-sell but that didn't happen so they just sold off some of the lots. Similar story with the condo that looks like a rental apartment next to One Lexington, 2-phase project for one building and the second phase took forever because of presell troubles.

Mind you not sure if that applies to Tempe as well, or if she was just pulling my leg with her tales! :D

[combusean]

What realtors will say... wow.

That definitely did not happen with 44 Monroe, that building just didn't sell. It is true that the federal government funded Starwood Capital to take care of the toxic asset and convert it to apartments after its lender Corus Bankshares went into receivership, but the City wasn't involved by then, the building had long since been open.

There is something abut a certain number of pre sales needed to get a public report from the Arizona Department of Real Estate, but that's always been a problem.

I'm certain the cities don't care if a building is condos or apartments. The only time I've ever heard of a city stepping in is when the debris pile of the old Mountain Bell building wasn't cleaned up and they were considering invoking some bond or insurance attached to the demolition, or there was grousing about certain vacant shells in Scottsdale and Chandler being "attractive nuisances" or some other blight but a city's hands are incredibly tied even then. No city in Arizona is going to finish a developers projects for them, that is unprecedented almost anywhere.

enHance park just sold a crappy woodframe product and poorly timed the market anyways. That corner was a tough sell anyways being so off the beaten path and fronting the homeless situation in Deck Park.

I don't know what happened with later phases of One Lexington but it was one of the dozens of condo projects from back then that never got anywhere. A lot of these projects were counting on financing from Mortgages Limited that just wasn't there.

The well designed projects like Portland Park and the ones by Optima couldn't have been sold faster. But I suspect that the experienced developers that have that kind of financing to deliver a quality product at the right time in the market while juggling all the moving parts of condo development are just few and far between. I'm sure some of the better built apartments will be converted to condos when the time is right too.

And, to make this relevant to Tempe, I'm really wondering where these condo buyers are that both want to live in the area and didn't find what they were looking for already beyond the short supply across the market. There's high end glass towers on down with for sale units, they just have to be waited out or bid up like anything else.

[phoenixwillrise]

I thought the main reason condo's are not being built, with few exceptions, is the fact that when you build a condo project you are opening yourself up for class action litigation for poor workmanship which may or may not be valid. Hence banks will not loan money for those projects. As I understand it you are in that position for 10 years so with all the apartments that have come on line in recent years will we not soon see many conversions happening at some point? Any lawyers in the group who could clarify and elaborate?

[xymox]

I thought the main reason condo's are not being built, with few exceptions, is the fact that when you build a condo project you are opening yourself up for class action litigation for poor workmanship which may or may not be valid. Hence banks will not loan money for those projects. As I understand it you are in that position for 10 years so with all the apartments that have come on line in recent years will we not soon see many conversions happening at some point? Any lawyers in the group who could clarify and elaborate?

I dunno - then I would expect you'd see the trend across the country and in places in Miami, etc where hi-rise condos sell like hot cakes. Is this a nationwide trend?

I think it has to do more with economics. The developers want to make money off the project ASAP - and in a market like ours there's simply not demands to sell out hi-rise condo towers. The only exception has been maybe in Scottsdale and a few other situations. Easier to rent out apartments to college kids - get 100% or close occupancy and sell the building. Then yeah, maybe 10 years later the new owner converts to condos if the market supports it.

[azsunsurfer]

Well the South Pier project has at least two condo towers planned for some of the parcels along the water....seems to make sense? We'll see if they go forward with them or just do apartments instead. I believe they are planned for the later phases though which makes sense if we are heading for a slow down.

[muertecaza]

Looks like the latest redevelopment plan for the congregational church is going to be presented to the historic preservation commission in July:

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/102796/638229596982530000

I'll keep an eye out, should be interesting to see what they plan to do.

[azsunsurfer]

Looks like the latest redevelopment plan for the congregational church is going to be presented to the historic preservation commission in July:

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/102796/638229596982530000

I'll keep an eye out, should be interesting to see what they plan to do.

Is there enough land around it for a tower?

[muertecaza]

Is there enough land around it for a tower?

Yes, I think so, but the question will be 'at what cost.' Developer appears to own all the land on the block not owned by/associated with the Islamic mosque. So the church, the parking lots to the south and east, the small commercial building that currently houses the Culdesac offices/leasing center, and the former House of Tricks.

I would be pretty sad to see the House of Tricks building go. (Really want I want is House of Tricks to come back, but that ship has sailed.) If they developed the south parking lot and the commercial building east of it, they'd have over .5 acres, which is similar to some of the high rises off 7th.

If they demoed all or part of the House of Tricks house, they'd have even more room and could connect to the parking lot east of the church.

[azsunsurfer]

Yes, I think so, but the question will be 'at what cost.' Developer appears to own all the land on the block not owned by/associated with the Islamic mosque. So the church, the parking lots to the south and east, the small commercial building that currently houses the Culdesac offices/leasing center, and the former House of Tricks.

I would be pretty sad to see the House of Tricks building go. (Really want I want is House of Tricks to come back, but that ship has sailed.) If they developed the south parking lot and the commercial building east of it, they'd have over .5 acres, which is similar to some of the high rises off 7th.

If they demoed all or part of the House of Tricks house, they'd have even more room and could connect to the parking lot east of the church.

Looking at the church itself, I am not sure if the add-on's to the church building itself are historic or not. I wouldn't be surprised like the Monti's building if they decide to knock down everything but the historic part of the church on the corner and build around it too.

[muertecaza]

Looking at the church itself, I am not sure if the add-on's to the church building itself are historic or not. I wouldn't be surprised like the Monti's building if they decide to knock down everything but the historic part of the church on the corner and build around it too.

Good point. Same with the old train station where they knocked down the non-historic parts that had been used for the Macayo's. Keeping the main chapel and demoing the other buildings south of the chapel could make for some interesting options, and hopefully make them able to have a good, developable lot without needing to touch the House of Tricks house.

[Mr.RE]

Happy 4th Everyone! Heavy construction equipment and trailers on-site moving dirt at the old packard baseball field. Looks like they are prepping for demolition of that 4th phase.

[Mr.RE]

New 315' highrise planned at 201 E 6th Street for 572 units per the tracker. That area is getting so dense. Hopefully some renderings come soon.

[RichTempe]

New 315' highrise planned at 201 E 6th Street for 572 units per the tracker. That area is getting so dense. Hopefully some renderings come soon.

The tracker says 101 E. 6th Street, which is the old Methodist church lot. 201 E. 6th Street is an ASU parking lot across from the mosque to the east.

Did you mistype the address or am I missing something?

https://images2.imgbox.com/d9/60/UZ6YbefH_o.jpg (https://imgbox.com/UZ6YbefH)

[CB1]

https://www.yourvalley.net/stories/tempe-makes-extensive-changes-to-its-general-plan,408251

[locolife]

https://www.yourvalley.net/stories/tempe-makes-extensive-changes-to-its-general-plan,408251

How do you understand what changed from this?

[ASU Diablo]

The tracker says 101 E. 6th Street, which is the old Methodist church lot. 201 E. 6th Street is an ASU parking lot across from the mosque to the east.

Did you mistype the address or am I missing something?

Looks like a typo. As someone mentioned earlier, project will go before the Historic Preservation Commission this upcoming Wednesday. Hopefully some renderings get released.

[ASU Diablo]

For those that know how to pull Tempe permits, any activity on the proposed Costco Business Center at the old Fry's Electronics Store?

https://www.abc15.com/news/business/costco-could-be-planning-a-new-business-center-in-east-valley

[muertecaza]

Looks like a typo. As someone mentioned earlier, project will go before the Historic Preservation Commission this upcoming Wednesday. Hopefully some renderings get released.

Here is the historic preservation commission agenda which has a link to some renderings for the proposal:

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/102969/638241726377598863

It's okay, still not sure how I feel about it. As some here predicted they're proposing to maintain the main sanctuary/chapel of the first congregational church and demo the classroom and office space. They are also proposing to build on the House of Tricks lot. I had not realized that House of Tricks was on the national register of historic places. Interestingly, they are apparently trying to weigh whether it is feasible to move the House of Tricks house to another location in Tempe. If that is not feasible or acceptable to the powers that be, I suppose they will have to go back to the drawing board on that portion.

[Ttown5]

Here is the historic preservation commission agenda which has a link to some renderings for the proposal:

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/102969/638241726377598863

It's okay, still not sure how I feel about it. As some here predicted they're proposing to maintain the main sanctuary/chapel of the first congregational church and demo the classroom and office space. They are also proposing to build on the House of Tricks lot. I had not realized that House of Tricks was on the national register of historic places. Interestingly, they are apparently trying to weigh whether it is feasible to move the House of Tricks house to another location in Tempe. If that is not feasible or acceptable to the powers that be, I suppose they will have to go back to the drawing board on that portion.

Love the ground level interaction with the pass through, the retail and the restaurant space and open area on the street front, but hate basically everything else. Its too boxy, no visual intrigue, and the parking garage facade is poorly done. This looks like I might be more of a first pass on the design of the outside but I think there needs to be more to this. The commissioners already said that Skye, which in my opinion was much nicer than this was too boxy and generic. Cant we have at least SOMETHING aesthetically pleasing. Give me some vertical lighting, some steel facade covering, anything. These boxy apartments like Union seem like they aren't making the cut these days, albeit olive is a great setup, its very boxy, but the varying tower heights does help and the retail engages the street.

[azsunsurfer]

I agree the top portion is boxy...too much like oLiv and Atmosphere....but I do like the parking garage and street level, very sleek!

Also I notice that they are still fighting over the Watson Flowers parcel...they said the project was introduced in Oct of 2022 however when I looked at the file there are no renderings for the proposed development....does anyone have any renderings for that project?

[CA7]

I agree these apartments are definitely looking very same-y and boxy all kind of in one area too, this one looks like UH with some greenery to me. However, I don't super dislike it either. I would love to see some height on the north section of 7th since everything else is on the south stretch, always thought it was a little odd that all the towers were going on one side.

[combusean]

There hasn't been height there because there hasn't been that much to develop. The church/house of tricks site took the developer five+ years to assemble and the NEC of College and 6th has a stale proposal. I suppose the City will eventually sell the annex on the NEC of 6th and Forest and that's pretty much it for that part of downtown save for the transit center. Nobody's gonna touch the Moeur or Birchett houses, and I don't see the mosque/retail turning over either. ASU owns the entire block on the SWC of Forest and 6th and nothing should be reasonably expected there.

[azsunsurfer]

There hasn't been height there because there hasn't been that much to develop. The church/house of tricks site took the developer five+ years to assemble and the NEC of College and 6th has a stale proposal. I suppose the City will eventually sell the annex on the NEC of 6th and Forest and that's pretty much it for that part of downtown save for the transit center. Nobody's gonna touch the Moeur or Birchett houses, and I don't see the mosque/retail turning over either. ASU owns the entire block on the SWC of Forest and 6th and nothing should be reasonably expected there.

Didn't ASU have plans for the rest of the block except the house on the corner? I believe the School of Del Web Construction was going to go in like a 12 story building with an additional parking structure?

[combusean]

Didn't the construction school just build their new building? I don't recall plans for the north half.

[azsunsurfer]

Didn't the construction school just build their new building? I don't recall plans for the north half.

The building that was built east is where they ended up. That building was originally envisioned for more admin space for ASU and Del Webb was suppose to go on the northwestern corner of that lot behind that house and south of the towers apartments.

[azsunsurfer]

Yooo they on some Block 23 ishhh...is Fry's going in on the ground floor here too lol.

https://azbex.com/planning-development/south-pier-in-tempe-getting-ready-for-next-phase/

[CrestedSaguaro]

Yooo they on some Block 23 ishhh...is Fry's going in on the ground floor here too lol.

https://azbex.com/planning-development/south-pier-in-tempe-getting-ready-for-next-phase/

I wish Block 23 would have came out more like that ;)

[combusean]

That article hurts my head without a site plan, and the website is near useless. I wasn't aware they had even broken ground on the first phase with all the back and forth/activity going on there.

[Summerlin]

Yooo they on some Block 23 ishhh...is Fry's going in on the ground floor here too lol.

https://azbex.com/planning-development/south-pier-in-tempe-getting-ready-for-next-phase/


Could the Arizona Coyote's new arena and Tempe entertainment district be
going in south/southeast of the South Pier phase 1 & 2 ?

[combusean]

Could the Arizona Coyote's new arena and Tempe entertainment district be
going in south/southeast of the South Pier phase 1 & 2 ?

No.

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

I wish Block 23 would have came out more like that ;)

I didn’t see anything about a Frys? Or even a grocery store.

[CrestedSaguaro]

I didn’t see anything about a Frys? Or even a grocery store.

There's not. Azsunsurfer was just poking fun at how the contours of the development look similar to Block 23.

[azsunsurfer]

That article hurts my head without a site plan, and the website is near useless. I wasn't aware they had even broken ground on the first phase with all the back and forth/activity going on there.

When you look at the site plan on the website the site the article is referencing is "South Pier Lot 1." It's the lot directly south of The Pier towers under construction now.

[skiesthelimit]

Yooo they on some Block 23 ishhh...is Fry's going in on the ground floor here too lol.

https://azbex.com/planning-development/south-pier-in-tempe-getting-ready-for-next-phase/

The office portion reminds me of 777 Novus but much taller.

[azsunsurfer]

The office portion reminds me of 777 Novus but much taller.

I thought the same, it's a cross between Block 23 and Novus

[muertecaza]

Here is the historic preservation commission agenda which has a link to some renderings for the proposal:

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/102969/638241726377598863

It's okay, still not sure how I feel about it. As some here predicted they're proposing to maintain the main sanctuary/chapel of the first congregational church and demo the classroom and office space. They are also proposing to build on the House of Tricks lot. I had not realized that House of Tricks was on the national register of historic places. Interestingly, they are apparently trying to weigh whether it is feasible to move the House of Tricks house to another location in Tempe. If that is not feasible or acceptable to the powers that be, I suppose they will have to go back to the drawing board on that portion.

Here's a link to the video of the historical preservation commission meeting where the developer presented if anyone wants to watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4nAOZcICPg&t=771s

I think they're going to have a pretty hard time trying to get this proposal through.

[xymox]

Anyone catch this? Phase 2 of South Pier getting ready to roll...

https://azbex.com/planning-development/south-pier-in-tempe-getting-ready-for-next-phase/

[azsunsurfer]

Anyone catch this? Phase 2 of South Pier getting ready to roll...

https://azbex.com/planning-development/south-pier-in-tempe-getting-ready-for-next-phase/

Yeah did you not read the thread above.....

[xymox]

Yeah did you not read the thread above.....

Ack - I jumped to the last page and it looked like that was all about the previous discussion.

[locolife]

Ack - I jumped to the last page and it looked like that was all about the previous discussion.

It’s worthy of a few posts, I’m hoping the entertainment aspects stay including the Ferris wheel.

[muertecaza]

Snagged some quick drive-by pictures through most of of the DT Tempe and adjacent area developments under construction:

Farmer

Dwell - working on the first floor still but active.

https://i.imgur.com/R58e0m3h.jpg

First + Farmer - some equipment and a trailer on site but no action.

https://i.imgur.com/LzYu8XMh.jpg

Carvana

Starting to come together. It is what it is, but I found myself a little disappointed in how the facade on the hard corner building is turning out.

https://i.imgur.com/ExXGTkGh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/zvdKG1nh.jpg

Rural Parking Garage

https://i.imgur.com/WQAcpenh.jpg

Apache

Aura Apache

https://i.imgur.com/kbrQCkEh.jpg

Culdesac

https://i.imgur.com/9ENf8nmh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/xwjU7VDh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/kfNyKeih.jpg

Blue at Eastline Village

https://i.imgur.com/hdhtqhhh.jpg

Milhaus

https://i.imgur.com/FtUEKXnh.jpg

Rio Salado

Streetlights

https://i.imgur.com/gC1hSCXh.jpg



The Pier - when I stopped to take the picture, I could hear the sound of a solitary hammer striking metal.

https://i.imgur.com/kNxZ4Q2h.jpg

Novus

Novus 4F

https://i.imgur.com/y916plsh.jpg

Novus 3G Apartments

https://i.imgur.com/LH2d9olh.jpg

Novus 3F

https://i.imgur.com/48F7qyHh.jpg

[CrestedSaguaro]

Not sure if this was missed or if anyone saw it and didn't post. Height evals submitted for buildings and tower cranes for Tempe Depot on 7/11.

Cranes:
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=593082229&row=0
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=593082230&row=7

Buildings:
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=593082233&row=10
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=593082234&row=9
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=593082235&row=8
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=593082232&row=6

[azsunsurfer]

Looks like at the next DRC meeting they are going to preview "Apache Square" that's the development proposed for the SWC of McClintock and Apache where the Pep Boys used to be.

[locolife]

Looks like at the next DRC meeting they are going to preview "Apache Square" that's the development proposed for the SWC of McClintock and Apache where the Pep Boys used to be.

do we have any details on this one?

[azsunsurfer]

No...I think originally there was a pre-submittal application for about 340 units with ground-floor retail in a 7-story building but not sure if that's changed since.

[xymox]

Not sure if this was missed or if anyone saw it and didn't post. Height evals submitted for buildings and tower cranes for Tempe Depot on 7/11.

Cranes:
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=593082229&row=0
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=593082230&row=7

Buildings:
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=593082233&row=10
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=593082234&row=9
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=593082235&row=8
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=593082232&row=6

So two cranes for Tempe Depot eh? Any other evidence this is moving forward? The dates on the cranes are for mid-august...which is less than a month away.

[azsunsurfer]

Well the site was cleared, I haven't been over there in a while so not sure if there's been any horizontal work started yet.

[muertecaza]

Well the site was cleared, I haven't been over there in a while so not sure if there's been any horizontal work started yet.

Since they cleared the site and secured the old train station there hasn't been any work. But hopefully soon!

[azsunsurfer]

So hoping we'll get some renderings of the Tempe portion of the AZ Grand regeneration scheme? I know boomers will be livid when they find out they're going to demolish Aunt Chiladas for a parking garage and apartments...

[combusean]

Wouldn't surprise me if Aunt Chilada's was going to relocate elsewhere in the development in the adjacent "district" dining plan... they still wanted to keep a mexican food theme per the development narrative.

[soled]

So hoping we'll get some renderings of the Tempe portion of the AZ Grand regeneration scheme? I know boomers will be livid when they find out they're going to demolish Aunt Chiladas for a parking garage and apartments...

Aunt Chilada's is ok, but imo as a boomer, it wouldn't be a great loss. Kinda like losing Monte's Casa Vieja, which only ran on the fumes of memories near the end.

Does anyone remember Aunt Chilada's prior iteration, George's Ole! at its original location? Even putting my prejudice aside of George being an old family friend who helped me with my own restaurant, and my working for his son, Bruce, for a few years on PFD, George's was much better food than Aunt Chilada's.

[exit2lef]

Both locations of Aunt Chilada's are equally unimpressive from a culinary point of view, but the one at Piestewa Peak is the more interesting and historic building. The South Mountain auntie is nothing special in architectural terms.

[soled]

Both locations of Aunt Chilada's are equally unimpressive from a culinary point of view, but the one at Piestewa Peak is the more interesting and historic building. The South Mountain auntie is nothing special in architectural terms.

Absolutely!

[CBar]

Snagged some quick drive-by pictures through most of of the DT Tempe and adjacent area developments under construction:

Rural Parking Garage

https://i.imgur.com/WQAcpenh.jpg



This one seems like the ASU building next to the Parking garage (almost finished) on Mill Avenue and 9th Street (back of Omni hotel).
Both the Mill avenue and Ninth street signs are kind of visible.

[RichTempe]

This one seems like the ASU building next to the Parking garage (almost finished) on Mill Avenue and 9th Street (back of Omni hotel).
Both the Mill avenue and Ninth street signs are kind of visible.

It is. Here's a link to the construction cam. View is from the east looking west.

https://app.oxblue.com/cameras/14a5a0b13d622c6761cd25d42e2503f2?openlink=McCarthy/MillAveParkingStructure

And a pic from the cam:

https://images2.imgbox.com/f1/53/Q1T33YJV_o.jpg (https://imgbox.com/Q1T33YJV)

[azsunsurfer]

Yes it's both the parking garage and the ASU building that I believe will house offices, classroom space and maybe retail??

[azsunsurfer]

Also the space in front of the garage from the webcam pic is suppose to house a 5 story student housing development from a private developer....no idea when is that suppose to start.

[muertecaza]

Looks like at the next DRC meeting they are going to preview "Apache Square" that's the development proposed for the SWC of McClintock and Apache where the Pep Boys used to be.

do we have any details on this one?

No...I think originally there was a pre-submittal application for about 340 units with ground-floor retail in a 7-story building but not sure if that's changed since.

Here's the red zoning sign with some info: 5 stories, 167 units.

https://i.imgur.com/Pm2ScUdh.jpg

[CB1]

https://www.azfamily.com/2023/08/08/tempes-iconic-mill-avenue-is-undergoing-20-million-renovation-project/

[Obadno]

https://www.azfamily.com/2023/08/08/tempes-iconic-mill-avenue-is-undergoing-20-million-renovation-project/

I trust the city to do horrible and tacky job.

Just leave it alone the street is fine.

[muertecaza]

I trust the city to do horrible and tacky job.

Just leave it alone the street is fine.

They already seem to be signaling moving away from the long-used ficus trees, which imo would be a mistake.

[PHX31]

This is a terrible, unnecessary, and wasteful idea.

Without knowing the details of the funding, it reeks of "we have this money earmarked for something along these lines and if we don't use it we lose it".

The entire region clamors for large shade trees. One of the few places that has some nice ones (even if some large ficus were replaced not all that long ago, and ficus present some collateral problems) and the idea is to rip them out because "it’s time to do a little bit of a refresh on that street."?

They want to put in trees "that are responsive to and can be resilient to the extreme heat that we’re experiencing and being mindful of water conservation". i.e. palo verdes or something similar that will never provide as much shade and will just blow over some day when we experience extreme winds one upcoming storm. No tree is resilient to everything. And to throw out "water conservation" is dumb, so dumb. Do they even irrigate the trees? Hard to tell on street view, and if so, it's not that much water and is but a small price to pay for much better shade. Of course these mindless reasons are coming from a "Sustainability and Resilience Director".

And wastefully rip out the old brick sidewalks just to put in likely some shit pavers? Ever heard of just keeping a vintage look that which will only get better with age as it gives a popular street a sense of place, rather than updating something "just because"? Is trashing a bunch of bricks in to a landfill a component of Sustainability? Methinks this is just trying to sustain an inflated budget.

[exit2lef]

I hope this doesn't turn out simillar to what's happening in dowtown Mesa. Just as that area has started to take off, storefront shade structures are being removed because they're not authentically part of the original buildings. In light of the record heat we've experienced over the past month, I'll take shade over authenticity.

[muertecaza]

This is a terrible, unnecessary, and wasteful idea.

Without knowing the details of the funding, it reeks of "we have this money earmarked for something along these lines and if we don't use it we lose it".

The entire region clamors for large shade trees. One of the few places that has some nice ones (even if some large ficus were replaced not all that long ago, and ficus present some collateral problems) and the idea is to rip them out because "it’s time to do a little bit of a refresh on that street."?

They want to put in trees "that are responsive to and can be resilient to the extreme heat that we’re experiencing and being mindful of water conservation". i.e. palo verdes or something similar that will never provide as much shade and will just blow over some day when we experience extreme winds one upcoming storm. No tree is resilient to everything. And to throw out "water conservation" is dumb, so dumb. Do they even irrigate the trees? Hard to tell on street view, and if so, it's not that much water and is but a small price to pay for much better shade. Of course these mindless reasons are coming from a "Sustainability and Resilience Director".

And wastefully rip out the old brick sidewalks just to put in likely some shit pavers? Ever heard of just keeping a vintage look that which will only get better with age as it gives a popular street a sense of place, rather than updating something "just because"? Is trashing a bunch of bricks in to a landfill a component of Sustainability? Methinks this is just trying to sustain an inflated budget.

I hope this doesn't turn out simillar to what's happening in dowtown Mesa. Just as that area has started to take off, storefront shade structures are being removed because they're not authentically part of the original buildings. In light of the record heat we've experienced over the past month, I'll take shade over authenticity.

Definitely agree. The ficus trees are on a drip system; I'm certain their water needs are inconsequential in the grander scheme of the city and the state.

Here are their concepts:

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/99820/638073217668870000

And here you can give input online:

https://www.tempe.gov/government/communication-and-marketing/refresh-tempe/downtown-tempe-refresh

The concepts aren't terrible, but I could do without a lot of them. There are options that would still result in primarily brick and ficus.

[exit2lef]

Definitely agree. The ficus trees are on a drip system; I'm certain their water needs are inconsequential in the grander scheme of the city and the state.

Here are their concepts:

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/99820/638073217668870000

And here you can give input online:

https://www.tempe.gov/government/communication-and-marketing/refresh-tempe/downtown-tempe-refresh

The concepts aren't terrible, but I could do without a lot of them. There are options that would still result in primarily brick and ficus.

It's frustrating that the survey gives no option to leave Mill largely as it is today.

[azsunsurfer]

Leave it to the City of Tempe to bring everyone together for a change on this forum!

What was the point of those original concrete "placemaking" signs they installed by the Mill and Monti's only for them to be demolished? I honestly don't mind the new signs they are proposing, both schemes are ok although I prefer that more electronic one to be installed by the Beach Park.

[azsunsurfer]

Does anyone know where we can find and watch the past recorded meetings of the DRC?

[muertecaza]

Does anyone know where we can find and watch the past recorded meetings of the DRC?

Best place is the Tempe Channel 11 YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/@Tempe11Video/videos

[azsunsurfer]

Best place is the Tempe Channel 11 YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/@Tempe11Video/videos

I was hoping to see renderings of Apache Square...but I guess well have to wait until the next meeting and/or the agenda when it's formally introduced....

[azsunsurfer]

I really like the scheme that's planned for the Devil's Advocate parcel. We're getting two towers potentially and the facade looks nicely designed. I hope that proposal makes it through.

The proposal behind the Newman Center has a nice podium and roof...but that's about it.

Honestly a little disappointed with Apache Square. It looks like that project that went up on the corner of Indian School and Central in Phoenix...but honestly, it fits the area and is still a decent infill with retail fronting Apache.

[azsunsurfer]

Also, I noticed this weekend that they've started work on the Novus parcel that will have the hotel and restaurants.

[muertecaza]

I really like the scheme that's planned for the Devil's Advocate parcel. We're getting two towers potentially and the facade looks nicely designed. I hope that proposal makes it through.

The proposal behind the Newman Center has a nice podium and roof...but that's about it.

Honestly a little disappointed with Apache Square. It looks like that project that went up on the corner of Indian School and Central in Phoenix...but honestly, it fits the area and is still a decent infill with retail fronting Apache.

Agreed on all counts. Links for the lazy:

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=103587&t=638277064146820161

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=103591&t=638277126961621959

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=103565&t=638276264604711429

Pretty cool to potentially have high rises spreading to that area of University.

[ASU Diablo]

Agreed on all counts. Links for the lazy:

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=103587&t=638277064146820161

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=103591&t=638277126961621959

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showdocument?id=103565&t=638276264604711429

Pretty cool to potentially have high rises spreading to that area of University.

Thanks! RIP Devil's Advocate. Some awesome times there. :cheers: