Phoenix CityScape Thread

[pbenjamin]

I sat down for lunch at Breakfast Club and ordered a Diet Coke. Waiter said that they didn't sell diet sodas. I asked why and he said it was a health thing. I noticed that they sold regular Coke. I guess they figure high fructose corn syrup is good for you. I left.

[Vicelord John]

Pbejnamin thanks for starting my day out with a laugh.

Waiter was right. I don't drink soda, but if I did it would be corn syrup over diet cancer all day long.

[gymratmanaz]

Way too funny!!! ..... I'd like a Coke and a side of bacon!

[pbenjamin]

Yeah well there are a lot things in the world that are potentially bad for you. Alcohol, red meat, whatever. We all make choices about stuff like that. I prefer a place that treats me like an adult and lets me decide. This particular menu restriction is arbitrary and stupid

[Vicelord John]

Looks like youve already made the decision to not go there. Good for you, grown up big boy.

[Kroney]

I sat down for lunch at Breakfast Club and ordered a Diet Coke. Waiter said that they didn't sell diet sodas. I asked why and he said it was a health thing. I noticed that they sold regular Coke. I guess they figure high fructose corn syrup is good for you. I left.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of BC's anti-soda policy either. However, the "regular" Coke it does offer is actually the Mexican Coke that contains real sugar.

[Vicelord John]

My friend got a bottle of imported coke the other day and the first ingredient on the sticker was high fructose corn syrup.

Are times a changin'?

[HX_Guy]

Not to alarm anyone, as "future" could mean in 2 years from now but this permit popped up today, it's for street restoration after crane removal.

Permit# CMC-T559981 Issue Date Expires 5/4/14
Permit Description FUTURE ST. RESTORATION FOR CRANE
Project 06-5309 CITYSCAPE

Description/Scope of Work: MISCELLANEOUS CIVIL WORK

DESCRIPTION OF WORK: FOR ASPHALT AND CONCRETE RESTORATION IN JEFFERSON BETWEEN 1ST ST AND CENTRAL WEHN THE CRANE SUPPORT IS REMOVED.

[FortyAcres]

Looks like youve already made the decision to not go there. Good for you, grown up big boy.

Doucher Vanderdouch being fuckwitted in a thread. You almost never see that!

[gymratmanaz]

Nice to see that they have at least repaved the street East of the crane in front of Arrogant Butcher.

Also, the sushi restaurant is coming along great. I like the street patio, looks like also a walk up bar , and the interior floor plan looks cool.

[Jsmscaleros]

So I was back in town visiting a friend on Sunday and went to Cityscape for a late lunch around 3pm. Copper Blues - closed til 4pm, Vitamin T - gone, that new Italian place (forget the name) - closed, Arrogant Butcher - Closed.

We ended up walking up to Roosevelt Row to have lunch at Carly's, which still seems to be one of the only places downtown with reliable and decent hours. They also had a sweet jazz jam going on, so there's another bright spot.

Point being, I was not too thrilled to see Cityscape not getting enough draw to warrant a consistent 7-days of business a week. Bummer.

[nickw252]

Point being, I was not too thrilled to see Cityscape not getting enough draw to warrant a consistent 7-days of business a week. Bummer.

That's surprising (and unfortunate) that Copper Blues was closed. Did you check Tilted Kilt? As far as Vitamin T goes - that's no loss.

Hopefully once the hotel opens there will be more pedestrian traffic to drive sales during the weekend and non-work hours.

[alexico]

So I was back in town visiting a friend on Sunday and went to Cityscape for a late lunch around 3pm. Copper Blues - closed til 4pm, Vitamin T - gone, that new Italian place (forget the name) - closed, Arrogant Butcher - Closed.

We ended up walking up to Roosevelt Row to have lunch at Carly's, which still seems to be one of the only places downtown with reliable and decent hours. They also had a sweet jazz jam going on, so there's another bright spot.

Point being, I was not too thrilled to see Cityscape not getting enough draw to warrant a consistent 7-days of business a week. Bummer.


I was downtown chicago on a Sunday evening (no sporting events) it was also pretty dead too. Sunday evening with no sporting events/concerts most downtowns will quiet

[Vicelord John]

Copper blues is a night time place

[nickw252]

Downtown Phoenix will get its newest hotel next month when the Hotel Palomar opens at CityScape.
The Kimpton hotel is being designed to appeal to trendy urbanites and travelers who want to be in the middle of the action.
Business Journal Photo Editor Jim Poulin had the opportunity to tour the hotel last week and see its progress. Click the photo to the right to see more images of the hotel.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2012/05/09/kimptons-hotel-palomar-phoenix.html

[Leo the Dog]

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2012/05/09/kimptons-hotel-palomar-phoenix.html

This is a pretty big deal for downtown Phoenix. The Kimpton hotels in San Diego are great. Id like to stay here for a night when i come back to visit.

I'm a bit surprised that they timed the opening for AZ's slow summer season though.

[Vicelord John]

Time to get their act together.

[Phxguy]

I guess it's a better trade off for what was once there.
http://www.azcentral.com/thingstodo/dining/articles/2012/05/14/20120514fuego-cantina-opens-phoenix.html

[nickw252]

I guess it's a better trade off for what was once there.
http://www.azcentral.com/thingstodo/dining/articles/2012/05/14/20120514fuego-cantina-opens-phoenix.html

I guess we'll see if a taco joint will really work there, or if it actually was Aaron May's poor business skills.

[combusean]

Proper spanish would be <<Cantina Fuego>>, and that'd sound better too.

[gymratmanaz]

Will it also take the empty space next door or just fill the Vitamin T location?

[Phxguy]

Will it also take the empty space next door or just fill the Vitamin T location?

Didn't Vitamin T knock down the wall into the other vacant space to expand the resturant? Either way, a open daily to 2 am type thing is exactly what we need.

[gymratmanaz]

They took just a small amount more. There is still a whole pad extra for another business.

[Vicelord John]

Didn't Vitamin T knock down the wall into the other vacant space to expand the resturant? Either way, a open daily to 2 am type thing is exactly what we need.

*2am nightly valid for a limited time only, until business realizes its an awful idea and has time to recover, or until they go out of business. See store for details, supplies limited, act now!

[Vicelord John]

Proper spanish would be <<Cantina Fuego>>, and that'd sound better too.

Yeah well the owner is a dopey white who doesn't know shit about Mexican food or culture so what can one expect?

[hrivas]

the pool being filled

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/535291_237331799705020_215426265228907_392483_452869193_n.jpg

http://www.facebook.com/HotelPalomarPhoenix

[Jsmscaleros]

That's rad! That would be a sweet place to chill after a Suns game...

[nickw252]

By the way, there is a prize for whoever posts either the first shot of the tower crane getting raised and/or a substantive building permit for the apartments. I have no idea what it is yet, but it's there.

What's this?

http://i50.tinypic.com/hv89ac.png

It says it was approved April 18 but yesterday was the first I saw it. Also, it says office building and not apartments.

Thoughts? Did I win the price?

[gymratmanaz]

AWESOME. Build baby Build! :)

[HX_Guy]

It says that it's for the North Tower...AKA the tower already built. :(

[nickw252]

It says that it's for the North Tower...AKA the tower already built. :(

The existing tower's address is 1 East Washington Street though and the Palomar Building is 2 East Jefferson, so the address is right.

[dtnphx]

The existing tower's address is 1 East Washington Street though and the Palomar Building is 2 East Jefferson, so the address is right.

So as I read it, it looks like it's the structure to go above the Palomar if it's 2 E. Jefferson. Since contiguous Class A space is tight downtown, maybe the feasability moved from apartments to office. Office floors are taller too, so let's hope so. Fingers crossed.

[HX_Guy]

Not to burst your guys' bubble but this sis not for the South Tower.

I know the address says it is, but look at what the permit says. 27 story? That's the height of the current office tower. Not just that, but the permit isn't for buildings anything it seems , it's just a revision for "Structural steel grease interceptor platform".

I mean I hope I'm wrong but the fact that it says "North Tower" and the # of floors match the current building. We will have to see a lot of other review permits associated with the South Tower before we see an actual permit to build.

[gymratmanaz]

New glass doors are in place for the club attached to Lucky Strike. I think this is going to be a cool place. It is big with a nice floor-plan design.

[Classical in Phoenix]

I tried to look it up by parcel number, but the parcel listed (112-27-126) is the entire NEC of Central and Jefferson and includes both sites.

[dtnphx]

Not to burst your guys' bubble but this sis not for the South Tower.

I know the address says it is, but look at what the permit says. 27 story? That's the height of the current office tower. Not just that, but the permit isn't for buildings anything it seems , it's just a revision for "Structural steel grease interceptor platform".

I mean I hope I'm wrong but the fact that it says "North Tower" and the # of floors match the current building. We will have to see a lot of other review permits associated with the South Tower before we see an actual permit to build.

New tower = steel grease interceptor platform. The same in my book.;)

[nickw252]

Years of construction at First and Jefferson streets in downtown Phoenix are about to end at the CityScape office-and-retail project as construction crews complete the Hotel Palomar Phoenix.

The $90 million, 242-room boutique hotel in the RED Development project officially opens June 5. It joins the Hotel San Carlos, Hyatt Regency Phoenix, Renaissance Phoenix Hotel, Sheraton Phoenix Downtown Hotel and the Westin Phoenix Downtown in the lineup of downtown hotels.

Jim Hollister, general manager of the new hotel, said other hoteliers in the area have been welcoming to the Palomar, even though it will bring them new competition.


"We are fighting for the same business in summer," Hollister said.

CityScape general manager Jeff Moloznik said the Hotel Palomar will give Phoenix more leverage when courting large national conferences and events, such as the Super Bowl, which will be held at the University of Phoenix Stadium in 2015, with fan events at CityScape.

"But we're also competing together as a group nationally for conventions," Moloznik said.

Phoenix officials have said the city needs more hotels downtown to support the large-scale conventions they have been drawing to the Phoenix Convention Center, a few blocks from CityScape.

An estimated 195,750 people are expected to attend the center's conferences this year -- which amounts to nearly 276,000 room nights in local hotels, according to the Greater Phoenix Convention and Visitors Bureau and convention-center officials.

Those convention attendees are expected to spend more than $283 million during the year on food, drinks, rooms, souvenirs and entertainment.

The Palomar in Phoenix, a Kimpton hotel, would be an attractive option for conventioneers, and it could be a selling point for associations and other national groups that are deciding where to hold their next annual conventions, said Jennifer Franklin, a spokeswoman for the hotel.

Franklin also said Kimpton hotels have a loyal customer following, especially among women, which makes it an attractive brand for cities to acquire.

The Hotel Palomar Phoenix is the second hotel that Kimpton Hotels and Restaurants has built from scratch, Hollister said. The other is the Hotel Palomar in Chicago. The company usually adds hotels through "adaptive reuse" -- renovating existing buildings.

Moloznik said the Hotel Palomar Phoenix boasts energy efficiency and recycled materials that may enable it -- and all of CityScape's two blocks of stores, restaurants and offices -- to qualify for the prestigious LEED certification, the international hallmark of green design and construction.

In addition, it already meets Kimpton's standards for green building under its 7-year-old green building program, EarthCare -- another selling point for the environmentally conscientious customer.

The hotel's 242 rooms are decked in chic neutral tones -- espresso brown; gray beaded wallpaper; beige-colored, croc-textured doors on the wardrobes; and stainless-steel fixtures. The furniture has crisp, straight edges, but pillows and other accessories soften the sharpness. Nightly room rates start at $149.

"It's like that show 'Mad Men,' " Hollister said, referring to the popular AMC television show set in the early 1960s, when interior design was markedly minimalist with stark, contrasting colors.

A one-bedroom unit features a separate sitting room. Each bathroom has a Fuji soak tub.

A 3,200-square-foot ballroom will play host to conferences, banquets and celebrations. Boardrooms also can be set up in the meeting spaces. Altogether, the hotel offers more than 15,000 square feet of meeting space.

Construction crews are putting the finishing touches on two bars. One, on the second floor of the hotel, is the Blue Hound Kitchen & Cocktails bar, where Palomar guests will be invited to a "Wines of the World" hour at 5 p.m. daily. Room service also is available 24 hours a day.

The outdoor pool is on the third floor, where guests can watch the crowds walking to and leaving concerts, Phoenix Suns, Mercury and Arizona Diamondbacks games. Another bar, Lustre, next to the pool will be open to the public.

Guests hoping to squeeze in a workout will get complimentary passes to Gold's Gym Elite at CityScape.

Hollister said the hotel has been hosting job fairs at the CityScape office tower to hire 250 workers, from cleaning crews to managers.


Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/business/realestate/articles/2012/06/01/20120601palomar-phoenix-prepares-debut.html#ixzz1wbjvz1cj


I don't like seeing "years of construction is about to end" but then again this is the Arizona Republic. Their reporting is a little lacking.

[HX_Guy]

Hell freaking yeah! I loved this place when I had it at the airport in D.C.!

Potbelly Sandwich Shop is coming to CityScape in Phoenix
by Howard Seftel - Jun. 4, 2012 08:06 AM
Republic restaurant critic

Cityscape, the $900 million downtown Phoenix development, is about to add another chain to its restaurant mix.
Coming this fall is the first Arizona branch of Potbelly Sandwich Shop, a Chicago-based company with more than 240 outlets, including several in the Middle East. The original unit debuted in 1977.
Look for toasted sandwiches, soups, salads, dessert cookies, shakes, malts and smoothies. Among the sandwiches are the "Wreck," with roast beef, turkey, ham, salami and Swiss; the "Meaty Pizza," with pepperoni, capicola, meatballs and provolone; and the "Mediterranean," a vegetarian mix of hummus, feta, cucumbers, artichokes and roasted red peppers. There are two store-baked bread options, regular and multi-grain, and you can add any number of toppings and condiments.

One friendly twist for calorie-counters: You can order the bread "thin-cut," which knocks about 100 calories off the sandwich.
Prices haven't been finalized, but elsewhere around the country sandwiches sell for about $5 - $6, and salads for around $7.
Three other CityScape restaurants are scheduled to launch over the next few months. On Tuesday, June 5, the Hotel Palomar will unveil its new dining room, Blue Hound Kitchen, while later this month, a taco parlor called Fuego CityScape will move into the space vacated by Vitamin T. Silk Sushi, a pan-Asian concept, is aiming to open its doors in August.


Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/thingstodo/dining/articles/2012/06/03/20120603potbelly-sandwich-shop-coming-cityscape-phoenix.html#ixzz1wqal11KM

[Vicelord John]

Came here to post that ^^^^

Thank you, Chicago, for your delicious sandwiches.

[gymratmanaz]

We knew it was coming but now even better. Love this place. Great addition!!!!!

[nickw252]

Here's the Phoenix Business Journal's take. They mention that Jos. A. Bank will be open in August.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/blog/prime_cuts/2012/06/potbelly-sandwich-shop-coming-to.html

[HooverDam]

Even though I'm unlikely to shop there I'm very excited about the Joseph A Bank, stuff like that is such an obvious fit for downtown and every little bit of retail helps.

[PHXflyer]

When did I miss Republic of Couture closing (shocker) at CityScape? I guess that's where JoS. A. Bank will go?

[exit2lef]

Even though I'm unlikely to shop there I'm very excited about the Joseph A Bank, stuff like that is such an obvious fit for downtown and every little bit of retail helps.

That store's right up my middle-aged dad alley, so I'll probably check it out. I agree that it's a good fit whereever there's white collar employment. I see Jos. A. Bank stores in most major city downtowns.

[Vicelord John]

Jos A. Bank always has good sales.

[HooverDam]

That store's right up my middle-aged dad alley, so I'll probably check it out. I agree that it's a good fit whereever there's white collar employment. I see Jos. A. Bank stores in most major city downtowns.

Oh man our description of it just made it sound way appealing to me. My girlfriend always hassles me about dressing "Dad chic" before my time. Maybe Jobs A Bank can complete this look!

[gymratmanaz]

I went in the Palomar. NICE!!!! I even snuck on to the pool level which isn't open yet. NICE!

[HX_Guy]

So what you're saying is that...it's nice? :D

Here are some pics Chris took...please looks, nice. ;) I'm hoping they will have a DJ and it'll be like a lounge place on the weekends, would definitely check it out.

http://nitnelav.com/cspool2.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/cspool1.jpg

[gymratmanaz]

Thanks for posting those HX. There are 3 green cabanas behind the pool. There is either a water feature or a nice planting bed next to the pool. It isn't done yet. There are a lot of cool outdoor chairs and lounges, making great sitting areas. They have 4 or 5 Cypress trees. I love the wood paneling on the inside walls. There is a nice bar area, of course. I would have tried to investigate more, but I didn't feel like getting arrested for trespassing.

[HX_Guy]

Pictures from Palomar's Facebook page...

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/579849_243875265717340_1356333304_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/545665_10101557193583471_1371856977_n.jpg

[Crispy]

I think you'll see some permits drop on the additional 14 stories in the next couple weeks. The crane will come back to life shortly... allegedly

[HX_Guy]

For real? Would be great to see. So the number of additional stories, 14, is locked in? Would give us a 25 story tower? Not too bad.

[Vicelord John]

I would say if the crane weren't going to be used, it would be gone by now, they are expensive to rent.

This is how you should know they are going to build on top of the hotel.

[HX_Guy]

Saw this posted on Twitter about 2 hours ago...

BuildingPHX ‏@BuildingPHX
14 floors of residential units will be added to the top of Hotel Palomar @CityScapePhx. Can't wait to see it.

11:18 AM - 8 Jun 12 via Twitter for iPhone · Details

[Vicelord John]

posted by who? is that some schmuck or someone with credibility?

I mean, I could say 38 story apartment tower to be constructed at 14th street and broadway, high end luxury units with private shopping mall.

I'm a schmuck though, so obviously not true.

[Phxguy]

http://azremagazine.com/economic-development/hotel-palomar-phoenix-opens-doors-cityscape
Very last sentance, comfirms the living quarters for the most part.

[HX_Guy]

posted by who? is that some schmuck or someone with credibility?

I mean, I could say 38 story apartment tower to be constructed at 14th street and broadway, high end luxury units with private shopping mall.

I'm a schmuck though, so obviously not true.


Posted by @BuildingPHX

https://twitter.com/#!/BuildingPHX

It's legit.

[Vicelord John]

I don't know who @buildingPHX is

[HooverDam]

I don't know who @buildingPHX is

Building Phx is a TV show the City produces on Ch 11. Thus if this info is coming from the city, its likely legit.

[Vicelord John]

:boogy:

[alexico]

Building Phx is a TV show the City produces on Ch 11. Thus if this info is coming from the city, its likely legit.


any idea if the 14 floors will be rental units or condos?

assume mid 2013 completed?

[HooverDam]

any idea if the 14 floors will be rental units or condos?

assume mid 2013 completed?

I don't think any of us know any of those answers for sure just yet.

My hope is for higher end rentals built with a quality that could potentially later be converted to condos. The PHX condo market is still light years behind the rest of the housing market which isn't exactly great. I can't imagine it making a comeback any time real soon.

Smart developments will be rentals. You've got to get young, hip, urban pioneers moving in first, which attracts places to eat, shop, etc. THEN the rich condo living yuppies can move in. A lot of places in Phoenix (44 Monroe, Chateux on Central) had it all backwards. Why would someone with the money to buy one of those places want to live where there's no/few places to eat, get groceries, buy clothes, do day to day shopping, etc.

[Vicelord John]

Real estate rule - condo market is the first to crash and the first to come back in regards to sales.

[HooverDam]

Real estate rule - condo market is the first to crash and the first to come back in regards to sales.

That doesn't seem to be the case here. The housing market is already slightly starting to come back and we don't hear anything about condos.

[Vicelord John]

That doesn't seem to be the case here. The housing market is already slightly starting to come back and we don't hear anything about condos.

It's the way it has historically worked.

[HooverDam]

It's the way it has historically worked.

In Phx too though? Honestly I'm not old enough to remember if condos came back first after the downturn of the late 80s. It seems like phx is so single family home dominant that maybe its trends are slightly different than the rest of the country.

[Vicelord John]

yes, in Phoenix too. It's too early to say if this upturn will be an anomaly, but generally that's the way it works.

[PHXflyer]

I agree John, two units at Orpheum just sold for 20% and 30% higher than the last one bedroom sold which was in April. Way too large of an increase in too short of a time to be considered the norm, but it's a positive. Also a unit in 44 Monroe recently resold for somewhere around $180,000. I don't remember the exact number, but whatever it was, it impressed me for a one bedroom unit in an apartment building.

Sorry for the thread drift, back to CityScape

[gymratmanaz]

2 big roof mounted signs are on top of CVS and the new Lucky Strike club on the NW and SW corners. They look to be possibly 2 big LED signs.

Also, they have added 6 permanent red umbrellas to the fountain area. NICE!

Also, across the street Tom's Tavern has a nice new lit up sign.

[HooverDam]

Just went to check out the Palomar with my girlfriend, boy oh boy, just more garbage design from RED. The exterior of the building is like what Soviet Russia would build today if they were still around. Some of the interior design isn't totally awful, but all feels half assed. The pool area is made of completely cheap materials. I leaned along the wall, looking towards Chase Field and worried I was going to break the cheap aluminum siding and wood veneer. Its really disappointing design for a place thats supposed to be a chic, urban boutique hotel. Its clear that RED doesn't 'get it'.

[nickw252]

I can't wait for this to be in. It's going to be bad on my finances though.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2v29oub.jpg

There was also a sign for Pot Belly on the east side of the building by where Vitamin T used to be.

[HX_Guy]

Where is Jos A Bank going in? Where Designer District used to be?

[nickw252]

Where is Jos A Bank going in? Where Designer District used to be?

Where ROC used to be.

[Vicelord John]

I can't believe either of those clothing stores thought they would survive.

[HX_Guy]

Where is Jos A Bank going in? Where Designer District used to be?

On Central right by the bus stop? That's awesome, I think that's the best retail spot at Cityscape...actual street facing retails, not some plaza that no longer feels urban.

Edit: Well actually, Urban Outfitters and Charming Charlies are the best...but that spot is good too. :D

[PhxER]

Here's a video about Hotel Palomar
It's starts at 3:05 and goes to 7:20.
WTIg8j0RL3o

[Vicelord John]

Moloznik is such a friggin tool.

[PHX31]

You can "stand up there at night and it's fully shaded"? That's amazing! The guy does seem like a major hyperbole tool.

I don't look at the Palomar as an end game. I'm hoping/thinking it contributes to a thriving downtown which in turn allows for bigger and better things to come.

[nickw252]

Here's a video about Hotel Palomar
It's starts at 3:05 and goes to 7:20.

"14 Floors of Residential Will be Added" at 6:10

[alexico]

Real estate rule - condo market is the first to crash and the first to come back in regards to sales.

i agree with the post above yours, the rental market is where it is at. 44 monroe is about booked and the rentals at other high end condos go very fast. (optima biltmore, one lexingtion, west 6th) the rentals go quick.

plus getting financing on a condo is very hard in today's mortgage market. very few condos are FHA approved and same with conv loan process too. a high % of condo complexes are non-warrantable so you will not be taking out a conv fannie/freddie loan due to too many behind on HOA's too many rental units vs owner occupied etc etc (even with 20% down)

[alexico]

I can't believe either of those clothing stores thought they would survive.

yep, id drive by and wonder how the hell would ROC make it through.

[Vicelord John]

You can disagree with my statement if you want, but history will tell you I am right. It's not something you can really argue with. Well, I suppose you could argue, but that just make me believe you're retarded.

[HX_Guy]

Some info on the review of the "Apartment Structure" permit, which was previously blank...

Permit# PHAS-0705627-16 Issue Date 6/18/12 Expires 3/1/13
Permit Description APARTMENT STRUCTURE
Project 06-5309 CITYSCAPE

DESCRIPTION OF WORK: 14 FLOORS OF APARTMENTS, 224 UNITS ABOVE PALOMAR HOTEL **STRUCTURAL ONLY**

That's certainly encouraging. It's not the actual permit to build, but a review of the permit, which is the normal process.

[combusean]

I went back to plinko's and my discussion about how they'd fit (what was then 240) apartments into the picture. It appears the units are going to be really small or the footprint is going to be much larger than it's been in the renderings previously posted. Sucks. But something shy of 300' isn't that bad all in all.

[HX_Guy]

I was just thinking the same thing...how small these apartments going to me.

44 Monroe is what, 26 stories (34 total but 8 are parking) and they only have 202 units I believe. Of course those were supposed to be condos, they naturally they are bigger, but here we are taking more units in really half the floors. Like you said though, it could have a bigger footprint...maybe the same footprint as the hotel?

[nickw252]

For a frame of reference there are 242 rooms in 7 floors of hotel but there would presumably be slightly more floor space because of less elevator shafts.

[combusean]

It's on page 280-281.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=117961&page=280

The larger footprint seems to be a dick value-engineering method on the part of RED. I can't figure out why they'd compromise the views of their office tower, but I suppose it won't matter for a while given how they've locked all their tenants into a long-term lease. I bet they'll have sold the project by then anyways.

[HooverDam]

The larger footprint seems to be a dick value-engineering method on the part of RED.

What?! Why I never! RED, value-engineering....nooo!?

[Vicelord John]

Speaking of red, my brother just told me they bought the collenade and intend to rehab it, but since it's full and busy maybe he means town and country? If that's what he meant then he is way behind but idk if they own t&c.

[Crispy]

Speaking of red, my brother just told me they bought the collenade and intend to rehab it, but since it's full and busy maybe he means town and country? If that's what he meant then he is way behind but idk if they own t&c.

I think they own both.

[AZScraper]

http://i47.tinypic.com/2rwm59v.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/21riol.jpg
More ad's now on the sound side of the office tower.
What's next???

[Vicelord John]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/797321d6.jpg

[hrivas]

the cherry on top.

[nickw252]

I like it. There needs to be more street facing signs/lights/attractions.

[plinko]

Yeah, there should always be more visual clutter instead of actual architecture.

[hrivas]

everything in that pictures looks like an afterthought.

[HX_Guy]

everything in that pictures looks like an afterthought.

My thought exactly. It looks completely out of place and out of scale with the building. If anything, they could of at least put the digital billboards on the sides of the buildings to cover up all that drab gray.

Here are some more pictures of the billboards and other stuff at Cityscape. At least the location of Jos A Bank is really good and I like that Potbellys in coming. Palomar looks good at street level too and Silk sushi looks like it will have a sidewalk walk-up bar with a roll up garage type door, seems cool.

http://nitnelav.com/dtcs1.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/dtcs2.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/dtcs3.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/dtcs4.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/dtcs5.jpg

[HooverDam]

If anything, they could of at least put the digital billboards on the wides of the buildings to cover up all that drab gray.\

Agreed one million percent.

[Vicelord John]

at the risk of sounding like an elitist jackass, I don't like Cityscape advertising to the southsiders and westsiders.

[plinko]

One word: cacophony
http://nitnelav.com/dtcs2.jpg