Phoenix CityScape Thread

[Vicelord John]

Van Buren, the important part of Washington, Jefferson, Central, and quite a few others do not have on street or room for on street parking. I'd challenge you to tell me something about downtown that I don't know, including what places have parking.

HX, with all due respect, dude, you are correcting me about my neighborhood. I know what's up, bro.

[PhxPavilion]

I truthfully couldn't care less about streetscapes or shopping, I only come for the towers.

John: Jefferson and Washington both have some parking in certain locations, I've parked on Jefferson myself west of 1st ave. and Washington has parking next to the Renaissance, Wells Fargo and Phelps Dodge towers. I think Central even has some around the ASU/Park area but I may be wrong there, can't remember.

[gymratmanaz]

Yes, there is street parking on the East of the Civic Space Park.

[Vicelord John]

Yeah, but not on the important parts

[gymratmanaz]

A lot of new trees are waiting to be planted, about 12 more, and they are different varieties. They planted about 4 already in the planter boxes on the west side stairway by tower 1.

The North sidewalk is now open. I walked on it. it is nice. The building and inside atrium looks great!

The sidewalk on the East side is really wide. it looks big enough for an outdoor cafe.

Shade awnings are up above the sidewalk on the north and west sides.

BIGGEST news is that they dug out three pits on the east side of where the chop house will go. Inside are three cement footers and columns with rebar sticking up. These will be the support columns for the three stories next to tower 2.

[gymratmanaz]

CITYSCAPE??? meanwhile back at the ranch....

[glynnjamin]

So...ShittyScape news:

LGO is opening a spot in there. Called Public House - a gastropub like the one going in by Nine05.
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bella/2010/02/lgo_public_house_coming_to_cit.php

[HX_Guy]

Both tower cranes have been in action over the last 2-3 days...looks like work on the south end of the block is finally underway, at least for the 3 levels of retail. We'll see what happens once that tops out.

Edit: The article also mentions that a gelato kiosk will also open..."Nearby, he'll also be adding a Grateful Spoon kiosk, selling his son Jordan's homemade gelato." I'm not sure what they mean by "nearby" and "kiosk"...like on the sidewalk?

[HX_Guy]

Here is the article from AZCentral as well:

http://www.azcentral.com/thingstodo/dining/articles/2010/02/10/20100210lgo-lynn-cityscape-gastro-pub.html

[gymratmanaz]

Finally. I was wondering when Bob was going to announce the LGO addition!!!!!!!

[Vicelord John]

I saw that coming a mile away. I hope that half of these places succeed, but in reality, I don't think they will. When AZCenter opened, it had a ton of restaurants as well, and most have closed. The ones that are still open are never busy unless there is a convention. The Cityscape target seems to be more locals and there is still that awful stigma about downtown that will keep the douchebaggy scottsdale types out.

[SunDevil]

and there is still that awful stigma about downtown that will keep the douchebaggy scottsdale types out.

This is why I go downtown.

Sure those douches spend money, but I'd rather not have beer bottles being thrown at me out of a moving vehicle while I'm walking around.

[Leo the Dog]

The Cityscape target seems to be more locals and there is still that awful stigma about downtown that will keep the douchebaggy scottsdale types out.

And every other suburban local. (Including areas within the city limits of Phx.)

[renone]

Both tower cranes are moving again today. The portion of the building on the west side of PSP is about 50% enclosed. The North portion is slowly following. Did I recall the businesses are supposed to move into the PSP portion in early April? That could be pushing it.

[phxbyrd]

How long have they been working on this project? Has it occurred to any of these people that the big WWE event is March 25-28? Perhaps you want to get the merchants and eateries open by then instead of a few weeks later in April. The weekend before is a big Mary Kay convention DT also. Wow, the forethought always boggles the imagination.

Then there's the whole LR issue. Why couldn't they have extended the line to Glendale by now. Think how easy it would be to run express buses out to Westgate from 19th Ave.? We wanted the SuperBowl in 2012 but would we have even accomplished that by then? Who knows and it's only a matter of time before the NHL all-star game comes so better get cracking.

[neworleans]

Cityscape is an amazing project and the economy is crap so give it some credit. And no they didn't have the WWE in mind when they scheduled the opening dates... why? because they live in the real world...

[combusean]

I'm sure they would have loved to have the project open by now or then or whatever but reality is what it is.

[glynnjamin]

NHL All Star game? They still play hockey out there?

[HooverDam]

NHL All Star game? They still play hockey out there?

Jobing.com was supposed to host the NHL All Star Game in 2006 I think it was but their was no hockey that year so that didn't happen. But they've given us the 2011 game as a make up according to the internet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/58th_National_Hockey_League_All-Star_Game

So hooray for that.

[Don B.]

Cityscape is an amazing project and the economy is crap so give it some credit. And no they didn't have the WWE in mind when they scheduled the opening dates... why? because they live in the real world...

Shittyscape is NOT an amazing project. LOL...

It is better than a kick in the ass? Yes. Is it better than having another vacant lot or Patriot's Homeless Square Park? Yes. But that's about it.

--don

[phxbyrd]

this guy must obviously be a shill for RED and stupidscape. What's all this real world bull crap? I'm not going to the WWE but a lot of other people are. The convention center's own website which must underestimate says there will be 30,000 people going to the WWE experience DT. Why wouldn't you want to get a piece of that? Also the WWE's own website lists discounted rooms at 3 DT hotels. Are you just an idiot with that "real world" comment?

[mwadswor]

this guy must obviously be a shill for RED and stupidscape. What's all this real world bull crap? I'm not going to the WWE but a lot of other people are. The convention center's own website which must underestimate says there will be 30,000 people going to the WWE experience DT. Why wouldn't you want to get a piece of that? Also the WWE's own website lists discounted rooms at 3 DT hotels. Are you just an idiot with that "real world" comment?

Do you comment on azcentral frequently? Accusing people of being shills and idiots just because they don't agree with you, coming up with derogitory and not terribly creative names for projects you don't like, inability to see any kind of big picture, using statistics while backhandedly criticizing the agency that came up with them...

Just wanted to point that out before I ignore you. Bye.

[phxbyrd]

I've been commenting on this project from the very begining and have been consistent, can you say the same?

I didn't see you say one thing concrete wrong with what I said. Please say something of substance or nothing at all.

[Vicelord John]

Phxbyrd, whats with the attitude?

[plinko]

this guy must obviously be a shill for RED and stupidscape. What's all this real world bull crap? I'm not going to the WWE but a lot of other people are. The convention center's own website which must underestimate says there will be 30,000 people going to the WWE experience DT. Why wouldn't you want to get a piece of that? Also the WWE's own website lists discounted rooms at 3 DT hotels. Are you just an idiot with that "real world" comment?

I'm sure RED and their tenants would love to be open in time for such a thing, much in the same vein that new retailers always want to have their new stores open before Black Friday, but in the 'real world', things happen. Construction delays, inspection delays, long lead item manufacturing and delivery delays, weather delays. All sorts of things that impact overall construction schedules. And on a project of this size, all it takes is one thing. Not only that, RED has never said they would be open by February or March (or whenever your beloved WWE event is) because they are looking at the big picture. You can't just cut corners on a project this size to get it open. The 'real world' doesn't allow it.

But I digress, go back to your bitching... (BTW, you've been commenting since the 'beginning' and you have 13 posts...uhhhh?)

(don't take anything I said to mean that I like the project, I've really never cared for it and the finished portions that I've seen so far in person and in photos has done nothing to dissuade my opinion)

[pbenjamin]

(BTW, you've been commenting since the 'beginning' and you have 13 posts...uhhhh?)
Actually he said 'begining'.

[Evil Empire]

Actually he said 'begining'.

Nice. I'm also a grammar nazi.

:cheers:

[Vicelord John]

I managed to get chased out of cityscape last night. It was fun.

[phxbyrd]

I re-registered for whatever reason after being away for a year or two. The names are pretty close but I guess you couldn't put two and two together. So back in 07 we started this saga and my tone has remained the same. Can everyone else say that?

Plinko, I think you work in the industry so you know more than I do I still think your post was childish. Projects have target openings they hit all the time. Sports stadiums in particular make it happen to open for the 1st game even if they are up against a deadline. In construction there are delays but with each one you lose money and if you continue to lose money you go out of business. Successful firms get their work done on schedule more often than bankrupt ones.

As far as the event goes why must turn our noses up at people who aren't urbanites? Events should be judged by how many people will attend, from out town in particular and not by their subject matter. I guess if I had been talking about the NBA All-star game then there wouldn't have been any remarks.

BTW, my radar was up for this because I have friends from back east who are well educated and will be asking me why DT phoenix isn't more impressive.

[plinko]

Projects have target openings they hit all the time.

Yes they do. And well run projects get there. But nobody representing this project said anything about any part of it opening before the WWE event. For all we know, this project is exactly on schedule (albeit smaller).

There wasn't anything about my post that was childish but so be it. I was merely pointing out that you seemed to be making alot of presumptions about this project and why this and why that, but without any of the requisite knowledge about how such projects are actually constructed in the 'real world'. Just bitching for the sake of bitching.

[combusean]

this guy must obviously be a shill for RED and stupidscape.

Even if he were a "shill" for the developer, has it occurred to you where you are posting? That we actually might want to hear the opinion or whatever news that there might be from a developer's representatives? You have no right to be hostile to anyone here.

Are you just an idiot with that "real world" comment?

You should tone it down a bit.

[Vicelord John]

I re-registered for whatever reason after being away for a year or two. The names are pretty close but I guess you couldn't put two and two together. So back in 07 we started this saga and my tone has remained the same. Can everyone else say that?






dude, quit being a dick for no reason.

[NorthScottsdale]

enough of this. Everyone just ignore him.

[phxbyrd]

you guys got very worked up about on comment and everything seems to be centered around my style and not any of the topics at hand.

[Evil Empire]

People seem to be worked up just because you came in and said why isn't this happening, why isn't that happening?

And the thing is, we all know the reasons and we've all bitched about them amongst ourselves and on here...no initiative, no real planning, no interest (from the city as a whole), and now, no money amongst other reasons.

[PartyLine]

I saw that coming a mile away. I hope that half of these places succeed, but in reality, I don't think they will. When AZCenter opened, it had a ton of restaurants as well, and most have closed. The ones that are still open are never busy unless there is a convention. The Cityscape target seems to be more locals and there is still that awful stigma about downtown that will keep the douchebaggy scottsdale types out.


That's sad AZ Center doesn't have much activity cause it's a really nice Retail/Office project but Cityscape looks really nice too though when I looked at their website the other day. When i've been out there i've usually gone to Biltmore Fashion Park or Scottsdale Fashion Square oh yeah and Paradise Valley Mall So you don't like the people in Scottsdale? lol

[gymratmanaz]

The four East columns are poured and free standing.

They put all of those huge trees up on the mesa. It looks great from the street, seeing big trees up there. I bet it will look even better from on the mesa itself!

[phxbyrd]

Cityscape (there are you happy) will benefit from AZ center going first and blazing a trail. In fact a 4 tower AZC (as originally envisioned) probably would have gone over like gang busters at the current CS site. Even if we wouldn't have liked the inward facing retail it would have been blessed with lots of day time workers, business travelers and evening event goers. There are models like this that work around the country but for different reasons AZC had things going against it.

AZC is at the far end of DT and a long walk for a lot of DT workers. Also it has no third office tower as it should have and no convention/business hotel or apartments above retail. Demolish AZC and put the current CS in its place and it will do no better and more likely worse.

[Vicelord John]

AZC is at the far end of DT and a long walk for a lot of DT workers.

you don't live anywhere near the city do you?

[phxbyrd]

I work mainly DT so I'm quite familiar with the geography. As it sits the AZC draws off of workers from the complex itself for the most part in terms of day time shoppers, business luncheons and after work drinks. TGen and ASUmed are there no but only just recently. The republic building is a short walk but after that it becomes a hike for workers who don't have much time. There is nothing to the west of the center, very little to the north and sparse employment directly to the south. CS on the other hand will have a large government workforce within walking distance to the west, the renovated Luhrs complex across the street to the south and nearly all the business workforce to the north. It has far more people within walking distance who might decide to walk over from 8am to 6pm M-F. Perhaps CS hopes to make most of its money after 5pm; on weekends and holidays but some of the successful examples back east I've seen make lots of money from workers.

[Leo the Dog]

TGen and ASUmed are there no but only just recently. The republic building is a short walk but after that it becomes a hike for workers who don't have much time. There is nothing to the west of the center, very little to the north and sparse employment directly to the south.

The Sheraton, the state's largest hotel is directly across 3rd street. Chase Tower, the state's tallest office tower, is 2 blocks away, one corner is on 1st/VB. How about OCPE (or whatever its called now), new Westin Suites going in, and building is gaining tenants, also 2-3 blocks west. And lets not forget about Central Station, a hub for commuters, just 3 blocks away.

But you may be right. Phoenicians aren't known to have pedestrian traits. If they can't drive and park in the facility, they're not going there. (Hence, all of the parking in DT).

[Vicelord John]

I work mainly DT so I'm quite familiar with the geography. As it sits the AZC draws off of workers from the complex itself for the most part in terms of day time shoppers, business luncheons and after work drinks. TGen and ASUmed are there no but only just recently. The republic building is a short walk but after that it becomes a hike for workers who don't have much time. There is nothing to the west of the center, very little to the north and sparse employment directly to the south. CS on the other hand will have a large government workforce within walking distance to the west, the renovated Luhrs complex across the street to the south and nearly all the business workforce to the north. It has far more people within walking distance who might decide to walk over from 8am to 6pm M-F. Perhaps CS hopes to make most of its money after 5pm; on weekends and holidays but some of the successful examples back east I've seen make lots of money from workers.

I might find points of your argument more likely to be valid if you knew your geography...

[Vicelord John]

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_2878.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_2877.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_2876.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_2875.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_2872.jpg

[HX_Guy]

Nice pictures! I especially like the lasts one...where was it shot from? The Court Tower looks nice from that angle...and it's about 1/2 way done, so it will double in size. Nice addition to the skyline.

If the would ever get going on the South Tower of Cityscape, that whole view will look very "city" like.

[PhxPavilion]

Looks like it was shot from the garage mahal zoomed in?

[Vicelord John]

Yes garage mahal not really zoomed in...55mm

[gymratmanaz]

I have been trapped at the theater getting ready to open a show....has anyone been to Cityscape to see anything new update-wise?

[HX_Guy]

I haven't...but was thinking about stopping by this weekend, if it isn't raining.
The cranes have been moving all week so there must be some new things going on.

[Vicelord John]

Gym rat man, its still there dont worry.

[gymratmanaz]

So I can breath. I was worried someone may have taken it. :)

[HX_Guy]

Ended up dropping by Cityscape this afternoon and snapping some pictures with the cell phone.

Not too much to report...nothing visible from the cranes moving around all week.
They look to be getting ready to open up the office tower, there were window washers doing their thing on the building. Also, the middle plaza area (between the two towers) has what looks like a temporary particleboard wall built so you can't see the construction/fall off into the area of construction on the south side of the block.

They also removed the scaffolding from some of the areas (like the old AJs retail spot) and it's not done, so I'm not sure what that's about.

http://nitnelav.com/DTFeb192010/1.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTFeb192010/2.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTFeb192010/4.jpg

[Vicelord John]

Looks like everything turns its back on the street. Someone should burn this piece of shit down.

http://nitnelav.com/DTFeb192010/2.jpg

[combusean]

I thought they were going to have an entrance there?

[HX_Guy]

On the corner of Jefferson and Central? Nope...and it's so lame that they don't.

[HooverDam]

Jesus that awful grey finish can't be the finish...right? That looks so fucking cheap and awful. I really wish the Arizona Republic had an architecture critic so this thing could be lambasted when its finished.

[Leo the Dog]

Jesus that awful grey finish can't be the finish...right? That looks so fucking cheap and awful. I really wish the Arizona Republic had an architecture critic so this thing could be lambasted when its finished.

I was thinking the same thing. Totally uninspired work. Looks like they definitely took the cheap route to save money wherever they could.

[Leo the Dog]

Has anyone stopped by Gold's sales? Any specials for signing up? Gymrat, do you know?

I'm thinking, one might be able to get a free membership for grand opening sales just to get steady clientele down there.

[Vicelord John]

Im gonna tryto get afree membership forbeing vicelord.

[Vicelord John]

I think the post count from this thread is amazing...

Who Posted?
Total Posts: 4,458
User Name Posts
HX_Guy 829
gymratmanaz 510
Vicelord John 298
HooverDam 205
PHX31 170
combusean 146
AZ KID 128
plinko 100

[AZ KID]

Wow that is pretty impressive! It's probably because there was so much hype that we all couldn't stop posting and then once most of it fell through it gave us even more to write about.

The gray finish is really sad. I think it would be cool if local artists could paint murals along the south side of psp. It would give it a real urban feeling.

[HX_Guy]

Looks like everything turns its back on the street. Someone should burn this piece of shit down.

http://nitnelav.com/DTFeb192010/2.jpg


Seriously though, I don't know what the thinking here was.

They got it right on 2 of the corners...1st Ave & Jefferson will have an entrance (into the CVS) and Central & Washington has a corner entrance (into Urban Outfitters)...there is no building on 1st Ave & Washington, and that's "the entrance", so I guess it's ok there...but what the hell happened to this corner?

Why not put a door here?

There is a big window...but we've all seen what happens to these big windows (hello...back of Hyatt)...they will just put some graphics on it and make it a blank wall like it always happens.

And yea, what is the deal with the finish? Is this simply the cheapest of the cheap to build or why did they go this route?

[Vicelord John]

it looks like an abortion.

[Don B.]

Is brick that disfavored for a construction material anymore? I mean, looking at that facade, it looks like fucking Alcatraz for crying out loud. *sighs*

Where's the damn shade structures? When will this city ever learn?

--don

[HX_Guy]

Where's the damn shade structures? When will this city ever learn?

--don

They will actually have pretty decent shade. See the little "nubs" along side the building right above the ground floor? They are there to attach shade awnings.

Should be similar to the ones in this picture by John of the Cityscape office tower...

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_2878.jpg

[Vicelord John]

Wonder why....

CityScape Street Closures/Restrictions
02/22/10 08:00 PM - 02/27/10 05:00 AM
1, 8, 15

Ricor Construction Co. will conduct another phase of CityScape construction which will cause Jefferson Street between Central Av and 1st Av to be closed nightly. RT-1, RT-8, and RT-15 operators will use standard detour routing during this time.
The detours for the full closures are as follows:

[HX_Guy]

Wow...the whole week?

[gymratmanaz]

Maybe they are fixing the street and removing all the steel plates covering the street?????

[Luke Skyscraper]

Can anyone actually see signs of them beginning construction on the hotel portion of Cityscape? I recall seeing somewhere they would start construction in January.

[plinko]

You know, there are alot of simple ways to break up long upper facades like this...I'm still hopeful...

But the fact that there isn't a corner entrance to this building is a travesty.

http://nitnelav.com/DTFeb192010/2.jpg

[gymratmanaz]

I am hoping that there will be some signage to break up the walls. I can't imagine that thee will be no signage on the whole south facade. They have to say what is inside. That would just be dumb!!!

Plus, with the windows, that will add some interest too, moreso than now with just holes.

[Vicelord John]

I just went to take a closer look. It appears that those blocks are stacked to floor level and there could still be an entrance. It would just have to have steps.

[HX_Guy]

As you can see here, there was no entry planned for the corner of Jefferson/Central. They could change it I'm sure, but in the initial plans, it was not meant to be that way.

http://nitnelav.com/CityscapeAJplan.jpg

[HooverDam]

I just don't understand why developers do stuff like this. Haven't they read....anything about urban design? Don't they want the companies who lease from them to be successful and make things easy for customers?

Is it just ignorance that leads to stuff like this, laziness, I just don't get it. I mean I understand 'value engineering' and saving a buck where you can, but how much are you really saving by not having a door there? I really have no clue but it can't be more than like $1K can it?

[HX_Guy]

I think it has much more to do with wanting to force people into the plaza area of the space than with the cost of it.

In their thinking, at least what I'm guessing, if they have a door there, people will just walk in and out using that entrance and never go "inside" the park/retail space in the middle. By forcing people to walk around, they will notice other places to shop/eat at.

[Vicelord John]

Exactly! Same reason you have to go in a mall.

[plinko]

As you can see here, there was no entry planned for the corner of Jefferson/Central. They could change it I'm sure, but in the initial plans, it was not meant to be that way.

http://nitnelav.com/CityscapeAJplan.jpg

Something isn't adding up here. Per the BUILDING CODE, you would be required to have a building exit on the opposite side of the building from the 'patio' side. This is not something you can argue or get a variance for, it's based on occupant load of the space, which I guarantee is more than the minimum required for two exits. Once you are required two exits, they must be separated by a distance of more than 1/2 the diagonal dimension of the space served (and thus usually on the opposite end of the building).

My guess is that this plan actually does have that 2nd exit (likely at the corner or along Jefferson), but it is a set of slider doors vs. swing doors (this is common in grocers anyway). Based on the column layout, it doesn't make sense that the entry would be along Jefferson, but I could be wrong.

So in conclusion, that corner almost assuredly has to have a primary or secondary exit. Vicelord stated that the finish floor is a bit higher than the street. That's not a huge problem, but it would require a ramp (stairs wouldn't be allowed unless some other form of equivalent handicap facilitation is provided elsewhere).

Interesting...

[SethAZ]

I just got this email but I can't go today. Looks like we'll soon know what grocery store will replace AJ's

WHAT: News conference to announce opening of new grocery store at CityScape

Representatives from CityScape and RED Development will join Mayor Phil Gordon to announce a new and much anticipated tenant that will become the city’s signature downtown grocery. It will move into the space at the southeast corner of Patriot's Square block.

WHO: Mayor Phil Gordon
Mike Ebert, Managing Partner, RED Development

WHEN: 12 p.m. Monday, Feb. 22

WHERE: CityScape – Office Tower, third floor, Central Avenue and Washington Street

[Don B.]

^ It will be a Rancho Carneceria! :)

--don

[HX_Guy]

So in conclusion, that corner almost assuredly has to have a primary or secondary exit. Vicelord stated that the finish floor is a bit higher than the street. That's not a huge problem, but it would require a ramp (stairs wouldn't be allowed unless some other form of equivalent handicap facilitation is provided elsewhere).

Interesting...

I don't know about the whole code thing but I just got email confirmation back that there is no planned entrance on that corner.

[SethAZ]

:previous: well that sucks. what an ugly corner.

[Vicelord John]

That corner will be the one bums sit on to drink their paper bag tall cans.

[exit2lef]

I just got this email but I can't go today. Looks like we'll soon know what grocery store will replace AJ's

WHAT: News conference to announce opening of new grocery store at CityScape

Representatives from CityScape and RED Development will join Mayor Phil Gordon to announce a new and much anticipated tenant that will become the city’s signature downtown grocery. It will move into the space at the southeast corner of Patriot's Square block.

WHO: Mayor Phil Gordon
Mike Ebert, Managing Partner, RED Development

WHEN: 12 p.m. Monday, Feb. 22

WHERE: CityScape – Office Tower, third floor, Central Avenue and Washington Street

Got the same email. Ironically, I'm booked to be in Downtown Chandler at the same time. I'm sure I'll pick up the details via Twitter.

[HooverDam]

Welp I sure hope its a Fresh & Easy or something like that an not an Oakville Grocery.

[Vicelord John]

I still say if it is a trader joe's I'll shit myself.

[plinko]

I don't know about the whole code thing but I just got email confirmation back that there is no planned entrance on that corner.

Well something is amiss. A 2nd exit is required and must be separated by 1/2 the diagonal. Like I said, this is not something you can argue or get a variance on.

It's certainly possible that the 2nd exit goes into the corridor space near the stair along Jefferson and that the door into that space just isn't shown on that plan.

It's also possible that the 2nd exit is the set of doors shown into the loading dock, but in most places that's specifically not allowed (it tends to vary by state, I can't remember if it is in AZ). That still doesn't look like it satisfies the 1/2 the diagonal rule though.

Splitting hairs I know...I'm just curious...

Either way, turning the store inward to the 'park' is really poor planning... Some businesses face the 'park', some face the street, some retail is on the 2nd floor (which barely works in much denser cities)...

[gymratmanaz]

Trader Joes would be too much to ask for and amazing if it were!!!!!

Anyone able to go?

[Vicelord John]

yeah I think it is too much to ask for. I wouldn't have to drive to shitty T&C anymore.

I'm gonna see if my girlfriend will walk over there and find out for us (fat chance.)

[AZScraper]

We already have the graffiti taggers hittin' up CityScape !!!
Seen this while I was visiting the lunch truck this morning.

Sad,sad,sad. :koko:

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k121/ndnwotah/IMG00340-20100222-1032.jpg
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k121/ndnwotah/IMG00341-20100222-1032.jpg

:tantrum:

Bounty for emt boss? :twoguns:

[Tito714]

I also saw that yesterday. it's on the corner of washington and 1st ave.
It pisses me off the lack of respect these people have.

well they were proabably unsatisfied with the work done at cityscape, but still pretty sad to see.:(

[mwadswor]

Well something is amiss. A 2nd exit is required and must be separated by 1/2 the diagonal. Like I said, this is not something you can argue or get a variance on.

It's certainly possible that the 2nd exit goes into the corridor space near the stair along Jefferson and that the door into that space just isn't shown on that plan.

It's also possible that the 2nd exit is the set of doors shown into the loading dock, but in most places that's specifically not allowed (it tends to vary by state, I can't remember if it is in AZ). That still doesn't look like it satisfies the 1/2 the diagonal rule though.

Splitting hairs I know...I'm just curious...

Either way, turning the store inward to the 'park' is really poor planning... Some businesses face the 'park', some face the street, some retail is on the 2nd floor (which barely works in much denser cities)...

An emergency exit would satisfy code and not be marketed as an exit/entrance.

[glynnjamin]

Oakville is official - Opens in November

[HooverDam]

Oakville is official - Opens in November

Bummer. Hopefully itll be more of a full featured grocery store than the one at SQ. When you went to the one at SQ did they do pre-made lunches and stuff like AJs does? I think thats a big key for this places success, getting office workers and people staying at hotels in for lunch and then maybe they spill in to buy a few things.

HX_Guy, or anyone, whats going in that square just North of the CVS spot? It has no door facing the plaza (unless theres a sliding door) and the only front door is down a skinny little hallway. It looks very weird.

EDIT: VV Cool that one does the premade lunch thing, so thats good, hopefully the Cityscape one will as well. It kinda reminds me from the pictures of the Duck and Decanter off Camelback, more deli than grocery store.

[Vicelord John]

Someone didn't do their market research. I don't think most residents that would go here have that kind of disposable income. This is basically a small AJ's with (probably) higher prices and (definitely) limited selection. I think it will be more similar to La Grande Orange which is basically a store stocked with shit that nobody needs unless you're going on a picnic. lame :(

though I just looked at their website and it appears the scottsdale location was a concept built just for scottsdale. This store looks to be more of a regular market.

http://www.oakvillegrocery.com/stores/healdsburg.php

[plinko]

An emergency exit would satisfy code and not be marketed as an exit/entrance.

Indeed, I just don't see where it is on that plan, that's why I was curious. The doors into the loading dock don't appear far enough away from the main entry to satisfy the condition.

[glynnjamin]

John - i don't know if you've been to the one in SQ or not but it looks just like that picture...and feels smaller. I didn't see much that was unique about it compared to the one in Sonoma that I've been to. I didn't see any pre-packed meals but you could stand in line for 10 minutes while someone made you a sandwich. I thought it was over-priced for Scottsdale consumers and I am sure that it is over-priced for Phoenix shoppers. All I wanted was a place to get bread and milk on a Sunday or Monday (since the damn "public" market isn't open then) and this Oakville place will not be it. I didn't even see gallons of milk in the SQ one. Small sizes, tons of packaging, inflated prices. Don't really expect this place to last.

[Vicelord John]

I totally agree with you, unless you want to go to CVS, since they sell milk and bread :)

[HX_Guy]

I totally agree with you, unless you want to go to CVS, since they sell milk and bread :)

Good point. CVS actually sells quite a few groceries...milk, eggs, some lunch meats, all sorts of canned and boxed stuff...cereal etc etc.

[glynnjamin]

I never go in CVS because they are always closed when I need to go and I can't tell from the street if they are open or not so I just go to Walgreens. I hate that freakin CVS on Central. One of the worst buildings in all of downtown.

[Vicelord John]

LGO Public House is going to be 50/50 food/bar. They are going to have a "london pub" kind of atmosphere but not "british" food. They will have some new orleans favorites and will feature creative signature cocktails. The other thing is they are going to go for a little bit of a speakeasy atmosphere.

[gymratmanaz]

Love a good Speakeasy!!!!!