Phoenix CityScape Thread

[dtnphx]

Not that it is any kind of confirmation, but two different workmen on two different days let me know that they will finish the three stories of tower 2, then in September start on the rest, being 10 stories of hotel and 9 of offices above that. We'll see if this comes true. One of them said that the new plans were being submitted in the next week. :) ?

From your mouth to God's ear! :tup:

[somethingfast]

I think the downtown Hooters girls have gotten much better:

http://a.yfrog.com/img180/7859/hyph.jpg
http://yfrog.com/50hyphj

nice...i like the blonde and brunette up front :yes:

[gymratmanaz]

An important addition to the forum, Somethingfast.

[phoenixboi08]

Haha! Reminds me of the time I was trying to explain the restaurant "Dicks" to my friends. I kept telling them the concept was pretty much the same as Hooters, but slightly off (because part of the atmosphere is the attitude of the service)

And I guess they were under the impression that it was men...so they were just like, "Gross..." over and over...pretty annoying :/

[Tempe_Duck]

Haha! Reminds me of the time I was trying to explain the restaurant "Dicks" to my friends. I kept telling them the concept was pretty much the same as Hooters, but slightly off (because part of the atmosphere is the attitude of the service)

And I guess they were under the impression that it was men...so they were just like, "Gross..." over and over...pretty annoying :/

I love that place. I think one would go over great in Tempe, near ASU.

[Vicelord John]

Haha! Reminds me of the time I was trying to explain the restaurant "Dicks" to my friends. I kept telling them the concept was pretty much the same as Hooters, but slightly off (because part of the atmosphere is the attitude of the service)

And I guess they were under the impression that it was men...so they were just like, "Gross..." over and over...pretty annoying :/

So you are saying you explained it poorly?

[somethingfast]

An important addition to the forum, Somethingfast.

there are few things i like more than skyscrapers...hooters are definitely one (two?) of them...

[Vicelord John]

Just saw te pic. Blonde on the left OMG but whats up with the tall downs girl?

[somethingfast]

personally, going through a dry spell so game on with her too :tup:

[Vicelord John]

Lol. Downs pussy is better than no pussy, eh?

[somethingfast]

lol oh man not sure i should answer that one....no, wait, i KNOW i shouldn't!

[RC113]

Does anybody have progress photos of the project ?
It would be interesting if we were to get the project shot from a skyline point of view.
I'm no longer with phoenix so I like keeping up to date :tup:

[Vicelord John]

Does anybody have progress photos of the project ?
It would be interesting if we were to get the project shot from a skyline point of view.
I'm no longer with phoenix so I like keeping up to date :tup:

You guys broke up?

[gymratmanaz]

Lol!!!!!!!

[RC113]

Lmao ! you know what I mean.
Its just that I haven't lived in the city since '08 and I was raised there :D
Last time I seen the city the Sheraton & 44 Monroe were barely going up.
Well since I'm gone I just like keeping up to date with my home ')

I can't wait to see phoenix in 10 years
hopefully a lot of development takes place in the downtown and midtown area.
Although of course once the economy recovers.

[Vicelord John]

Look though this threqd there are tons of pics

[Tito714]

If you have facebook the cityscape page just updated their photos. Here's the link. http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/album.php?aid=28630&id=118100984871096&ref=mf

[HX_Guy]

New progress pictures from Cityscape's Facebook page.
One thing is certain, at least in my opinion, this does not have the feel of AZ Center at all...

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs079.snc4/35325_144733442207850_118100984871096_450032_4474352_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs079.snc4/35325_144733435541184_118100984871096_450030_7200490_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs178.snc4/38237_144733385541189_118100984871096_450029_6729504_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs098.ash2/38237_144733382207856_118100984871096_450028_5557636_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs198.snc4/38237_144733378874523_118100984871096_450027_5139380_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs171.snc4/37881_144733345541193_118100984871096_450026_172576_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs191.snc4/37881_144733342207860_118100984871096_450025_7855627_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs191.snc4/37881_144733338874527_118100984871096_450024_6920542_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs019.snc4/34326_144733275541200_118100984871096_450023_6061970_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs019.ash2/34326_144733272207867_118100984871096_450022_4962397_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs039.snc4/34326_144733268874534_118100984871096_450021_4283338_n.jpg

I've got to say I hate the way they did the entrance into Oakville...no direct access of the street, you want to walk around the long ass guard rail. Not very urban feeling...though they will probably have tables/umbrellas in that area overlooking the street.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs048.snc4/34746_144733242207870_118100984871096_450020_5639242_n.jpg

The entrance into Urban Outfitter is much better and probably the best corner of the whole project.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs028.ash2/34746_144733238874537_118100984871096_450019_5873436_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs028.ash2/34746_144733235541204_118100984871096_450018_2503658_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs020.ash2/34340_144733195541208_118100984871096_450017_1042909_n.jpg

[Vicelord John]

Wow, there better be an alternate entrance to Oakville. When I'm already walking 6 blocks to shop somewhere, that little annoyance of having to walk all the way around a guard rail is enough to make me want to get in my car and go to Safeway instead.

[HX_Guy]

Nope, that's the only entrance.

[gymratmanaz]

Maybe if you tell them WHO you are, they might make a seperate entrance for you, John. :)

[PHX31]

Are you sure there's not a small staircase hiding behind the tree heading to that Oakville entrance?

[HX_Guy]

Are you sure there's not a small staircase hiding behind the tree heading to that Oakville entrance?

100% sure. Was down there on Tuesday night.

[Vicelord John]

Maybe if you tell them WHO you are, they might make a seperate entrance for you, John. :)

I already did. I hooked their marketing girl up with a really great deal here at the hotel, so they owe me. :haha:

[dtnphx]

For Chrissakes! This project will never ever be the project we envisioned it to be. And now Oakville is the latest thing to dissapoint because you have to walk around a friggin' rail to get in-so fucking what! The fact that a grocery is even opening downtown is a miracle. :yuck:

[gymratmanaz]

You smooth talker John!!!!!!

[plinko]

100% sure. Was down there on Tuesday night.

The sad thing is that there appears to even be space for a stair. What the hell?

[HX_Guy]

There isn't a ton of space and it does have some height, so it would take up a bit of space. I'm thinking they are going to put tables/umbrellas there for people who order food at Oakville, which is nice, but I would of rather had street access. That ramp is just way to long, it's weird.

This would have been such a cooler design...with the huge windows and being able to see the produce and people inside..

http://nitnelav.com/CityScapeConstruction/CityScapeOct22/3.jpg

[Vicelord John]

That Audi is about to destroy that couple walking in the road.

[gymratmanaz]

Plus the reflections in the window of the inside store are totally wrong with respect to angles and what is reflected. Maybe it is a magic store where the laws of physics are ignored....

[gymratmanaz]

Cool update on additions to the Cityscape Plaza.

*Grass sod has been added to the big tree planting containers. Looks awesome!!!!!! Adds a lot of green color and will help to make things cooler too.

*Talked to a workman, and he says the open slots carving in the angled wall on the south and west of the Plaza where the dancing waters are, they will have water coming out of them. There are reclamation pipes under the cement near the wall. This makes sense because I recall a cement trench being there with pipes in it. I always wondered what they were for. Now we know. How cool is that.

*They are adding cream colored sitting benches around where the dancing water jets are located.

*More planting beds, plants, trees, and lighting being added still.

*On the south side, they removed those two huge electrical boxes (Guessing to be 4' X 5' X 3' each. They are now relocated, allowing the street to flow straight through now.

*On the east side of tower #1, they have added an exterior door to the center retail pad. It used to be only windows.

*The pad to the south of it is still drywall where they removed the door and wall of windows. No idea what it is being replaced with.

*Guessing they are looking to open the main part of the Plaza when they open the CVS on the 25th.

[phxbyrd]

so let me get this straight on tower 2. Is it supposed to be 3+10+9 for a total of 22 stories? I seem to recall that hotel floor to celling is more than condos so wouldn't that be roughly the height of 44 Monroe?

[RC113]

Here's a recent photo of Phoenix's skyline I found on the web
I thought it would be interesting to show what our city is developing into :]
Give it 10-15 more years and if they change height restrictions "which I HOPE"
and a little more boost in the economy and Phoenix will have a relatively decent skyline :tup:

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr329/imperfect37/Phoenix-1.jpg

[gymratmanaz]

The impression I got was that the 10 stories of Hotel included the 3 then add 9. He was saying about 20 stories. Who knows till we know. Come on permits!!!!

[Vicelord John]

it is 10 stories of hotel along with 2 stories of retail and 8 stories of office but they found a way to compact it all into three stories which are almost complete.

[gymratmanaz]

That grass looks awesome! They had the sprinkler system on this morning. I didn't know grass was in the original plan, but if it wasn't, NICE ADDITION!

[plinko]

so let me get this straight on tower 2. Is it supposed to be 3+10+9 for a total of 22 stories? I seem to recall that hotel floor to celling is more than condos so wouldn't that be roughly the height of 44 Monroe?

Why would hotel floor to floors be taller than that of condos?

10 story hotel + 9 story office? It'll be lucky if it reaches 250' Even if the 10 stories doesn't include the 3 story base, that only gets it to 280' max.

[gymratmanaz]

Right now I'll take anything above 3, as long as there is a hotel. Offices above would be awesome.

[HooverDam]

Give it 10-15 more years and if they change height restrictions "which I HOPE"


Height restrictions aren't an issue. There's no building in Phoenix that is over 500 feet and there are areas of Downtown zoned up to 700'. Its the lack of demand for such buildings thats the issue. For a better skyline our City leaders trying to attract Fortune 500/1000 companies to downtown would do a lot more than changing height limits.

[plinko]

There isn't a ton of space and it does have some height, so it would take up a bit of space.

Non-functional design is still bad design, no matter what alternative uses the space might have.

[kaneui]

New progress pictures from Cityscape's Facebook page.
One thing is certain, at least in my opinion, this does not have the feel of AZ Center at all...


http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs039.snc4/34326_144733268874534_118100984871096_450021_4283338_n.jpg





Until now, I have avoided piling on to the criticism of CityScape, but this photo really demonstrates how little bang for the buck Phoenix is getting. Can this PSP block redo be described as even remotely evoking any sense of place, or resembling anything vaguely urban? Yes, maybe the dancing fountains and a few strategically placed sculptures will help, but I still find it hard to believe the city signed off on such bland architecture for such a prime location.

A few years ago when RED released their initial CityScape renderings, I responded with a rather lengthy letter asking them to seize the moment and create some architecturally defining buildings for Phoenix' 0'0 spot, referencing Library Tower in L.A., among other examples. They must have realized that there were folks who actually cared about the design of their project in the city's core, as they posted my letter on their website and requested even more comments. Of course, they were flooded with numerous letters and suggestions, many of them from fellow SSP contributors. So it appeared they were taking it all to heart, and we had high hopes of RED creating something much more visually interesting and engaging at street level than their initial proposal.

Through all the various suggestions, they did end up making a few minor improvements, all of which have been critiqued extensively on this thread. However, with the implosion of the economy and the capital markets, and coming to grips with the fact that there just isn't much demand for expensive condos or apartments in downtown Phoenix, the whittling away of the original concept began. And now with Phase "I" nearing completion, it certainly feels like Arizona Center or Collier Center all over again--only a portion of the original vision, a severed fragment that will struggle to create the touted street life and synergy as initially planned.

And adding insult to injury, Phoenix is gifted with another city center block scraped clean for an additional asphalt parking lot to fuel the urban heat dome. So after all the expensive tax credits and subsidies, we'll have yet another half-baked megaproject, approved by the leadership of America's fifth-largest city that is desperate for downtown development--but what a price to pay.

[Leo the Dog]

^^^ Well said.

[gymratmanaz]

Yeah. I miss PSP and the empty parking lot. A parking lot and a homeless haven is what the city needs back. Let's tear this stuff up because it isn't more. (Glass half full and not empty for me. I totally support your right to an opinion. Hope I get mine.).... (Is this design perfect? Nope, but I'll take it over the alternative, nothing.)

[Vicelord John]

I'm with chris. Glass half full. No matter how many missed opportunities there are, we have a LOT more than we did before.

[Tito714]

So according to the Cityscape page on Facebook it appears that CVS is having a Grand Opening on Monday the 26th of this month. The mayor will be there and according to the discription it also says that they will sell beer and liquor. Here's the link: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/event.php?eid=133347283368339

[HX_Guy]

Here is the text from the above link. Good to see that they will have an expanded grocery selection and that they will be open until 9pm.

CityScape Phoenix
Grand Opening is Monday July 26th 9am with Mayor Gordon cutting the ribbon

Hours for Rx will be
M-F 8am to 9pm
Sa 10am to 6pm
...Su 10am to 5pm

Pharmacist is immunization certified and we will offer flu shots

Front store hours
M-F 6am to 9pm
Sa and Su 8am to 9pm

(Hours may be less on Holidays)

Underground parking for the store

Photo Department
-Passport Photos in Minutes
-Photo Gifts

Full Liquor Department with beer, large wine selection, and spirits available warm and cold

Expanded coolers and freezers
Including sandwiches, lunch items and dairy, and ice

Expanded grocery set

ATM

Souvenir Section




Also...Cityscape tweeted that Lucky Strike will open around August 20th.

[HX_Guy]

Lucky Strike Phoenix's Facebook page...

http://www.facebook.com/#!/luckystrikephoenix?v=wall

[combusean]

In RED's defense, they wanted to go taller on the PSP block but the owners of Renaissance Square said no. That block is still dictated by CC&Rs that limit the height of buildings and lot coverage on that block. I can't remember the specific details of the drawings they showed to parks board but it looks far worse today than what I remember.

I actually see a future phase of CityScape someday where that block is replaced. If DMB can build Centerpoint in the mid 1990's and talk about razing it 12 years later for midrise condos, it will be done here in time. The garage is structurally capable of supporting a 250' tower, tho anyone with real money would probably start all over.

Either way, I don't know what kind of architecturally defining stuff in the context of Library Tower could be thought of for this site.

The department store building they tore down was a lost cause. It was too big to be rehabbed cost-effectively and like everything else downtown it was obsolete for the site with highrise entitlements.

[Tempe_Duck]

In RED's defense, they wanted to go taller on the PSP block but the owners of Renaissance Square said no. That block is still dictated by CC&Rs that limit the height of buildings and lot coverage on that block. I can't remember the specific details of the drawings they showed to parks board but it looks far worse today than what I remember.


How does the CC&Rs from a neighboring building effect the land that was a city park?

[HX_Guy]

A couple permits that popped up today...

Permit# S-T524484 Issue Date Expires 7/18/12
Permit Description PHASE 8 -SOUTH TOWER PODIUM SHELL
Project 06-5309 CITYSCAPE

DESCRIPTION OF WORK:EXTERIOR FACADE AND ARCHITECTURAL PLANS FOR LEVELS 1-3 OF THE SHELL AND CORE SOUTH TOWER RETAIL PODIUM INCLUDES MODIFICATIONS TO STAIRS PREMITTED IN PREVIOUS PHASE.



Permit# LPRT-1001832 Issue Date 7/19/10 Expires 7/19/11
Permit Description RASPUTIN RESTAURANT & VODKA BAR
Project 06-5309 CITYSCAPE

DESCRIPTION OF WORK: TENNT UPFIT INCLUDING OF INTERIOR WALLS AND CASEWORK. INSTALLATION OF ALL ELECTRICAL, HVAC, AND PLUMBING. ALL FINISHES, FIXTURES, FURNITURE AND EQUIPMENT WILL BE INSTALLED.

[HX_Guy]

Found some stuff on Rasputin...these images are from their Toronto location but should give an idea of what to expect.

http://www.hauteliving.com/2010/04/doyle-restaurant-group-to-bring-rasputin-vodka-bar-to-downtowns-cityscape/

http://www.hauteliving.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Rasputin-Vodka-Bar_L.jpg

http://www.hauteliving.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Rasputin-Corridor.jpg

[AZScraper]

Seen them installing the glass on the overpast during lunch today.
Agree, lot of concrete and it sure does get hot. :hell:

http://i28.tinypic.com/9ti9v9.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/28vt72g.jpg
:shrug:

[Phxguy]

Anyone attending the opening of CVS Pharmacy on the 26th?

[HX_Guy]

The store actually opens on Sunday @ 8:00 AM so I think Im going to check it out then and avoid the traffic on Monday morning.

[gymratmanaz]

In NYC now till Aug 2. Take good pics, HX. :)

.... and post some hotel permits while you are at it! ;)

[Phxguy]

The store actually opens on Sunday @ 8:00 AM so I think Im going to check it out then and avoid the traffic on Monday morning.

You should also record it with a video camera or something. Walking through the PSP side and maybe going inside Gold's Gym and CVS whilst you taking pictures.

[combusean]

Wait ... they're putting *glass* on that thing rather than shade? And they're mounting them underneath the posts?

This is a profoundly stupid idea on multiple levels.

[Vicelord John]

Wish i knew they pushed the opening back before i walked all the way the fuck over there.

Ps, the plaza is an abortion.

[HX_Guy]

Didn't have a chance to stop by for the grand opening this morning...sleeping won out...but here are some pictures from their Facebook page.

Also, from a story on AZFamily.com...

"It's kind of a tidal wave of tenants that are all opening between now and October," said Jeff Moloznika of RED Development. "In November, we'll culminate with a grand-opening party, which will be kind of a downtown celebration."
That official grand opening is slated for Nov. 4-7.
CityScape is a $900 million development that covers 4.5 acres and features condominiums, hotels, offices and retail space.
"We'll have full occupancy by the end of this year," Moloznika said. "Currently, the project is completely leased. All of the retail space will be occupied and everything will be open by December."



http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs170.snc4/37845_147301241951070_118100984871096_467117_1394139_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs190.snc4/37845_147301235284404_118100984871096_467116_4443261_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs090.ash2/37845_147301245284403_118100984871096_467118_6974964_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs190.snc4/37845_147301251951069_118100984871096_467119_5395452_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs163.snc4/37466_147305668617294_118100984871096_467131_7054303_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs083.ash2/37466_147305671950627_118100984871096_467132_5946000_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs183.snc4/37466_147305675283960_118100984871096_467133_4806386_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs163.snc4/37466_147305678617293_118100984871096_467134_2660632_n.jpg

[KEVINphx]

Sorry but I have to laugh at the mayor of one of the largest cities in the nation attending the grand opening of a suburban pharmacy chain store, no matter the significance of having a pharmacy downtown.

meh, won't say anything more so as to not provoke the standard "it's better than an empty lot" reply.

[plinko]

Any of you guys have photos of the 1st Ave/Jefferson facades of the CVS building? I'm curious to see how the vertical/horizontal signage and shade elements worked out. We haven't seen those angles in awhile.

[Vicelord John]

Any of you guys have photos of the 1st Ave/Jefferson facades of the CVS building? I'm curious to see how the vertical/horizontal signage and shade elements worked out. We haven't seen those angles in awhile.

It looks awful, so much to the point that I refuse to photograph it. The plaza is also a concrete wonderland. pavers, planters, concrete benches poured in, concrete walls, concrete rails, concrete trees... ok maybe not concrete trees but you get the point. It was 110 yesterday standing in the plaza, and about 103 when I was two blocks away on Washington and First. I had my little AC thermometer with me.

This whole thing is so full of fail. I'm completely and utterly disappointed. :(

[PHX31]

Trees will grow. Plus, it's not always summer in Phoenix.

[Vicelord John]

Trees will grow. Plus, it's not always summer in Phoenix.

ok? They are still trees on top of concrete. There is about a 2' x 4' patch of st. augustine grass, atop a concrete pillar that is absolutely inaccessible to anyone and completely asthetic.

Go down there and walk around. I bet you'll feel the same disappointment that I do.

[PHX31]

I'm not saying it doesn't suck... Just that the heat thing won't always be as bad of a problem, especially considering the non-summer months are great here.

[HX_Guy]

Any of you guys have photos of the 1st Ave/Jefferson facades of the CVS building? I'm curious to see how the vertical/horizontal signage and shade elements worked out. We haven't seen those angles in awhile.

Actually they didn't do anything new really from what you've seen before, other then this sign:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs170.snc4/37845_147301241951070_118100984871096_467117_1394139_n.jpg

Ill snap some new pictures sometime this week though.

[AZ KID]

So I went down at around 9:30 am and took a couple shots...

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q190/asilman/cityscape/Picture001.jpg?1280172844

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q190/asilman/cityscape/Picture008.jpg?t=1280172904

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q190/asilman/cityscape/Picture005.jpg?t=1280172927

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q190/asilman/cityscape/Picture004.jpg?t=1280172962

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q190/asilman/cityscape/Picture002.jpg?t=1280172994

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q190/asilman/cityscape/Picture007.jpg?t=1280173022

[HX_Guy]

That grass looks really great! I dont know, maybe its worse in person, but it doesn't look too bad in the pictures.

Here are some more pictures of the CVS...

I like how you can see outside from inside the store. :D
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs127.ash2/39664_147368618610999_118100984871096_467355_1682055_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs267.snc4/39664_147368621944332_118100984871096_467356_6958519_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs267.snc4/39664_147368628610998_118100984871096_467358_6842893_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs127.ash2/39664_147368635277664_118100984871096_467360_6372562_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs247.snc4/39664_147368638610997_118100984871096_467361_6488942_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs188.snc4/37730_147368688610992_118100984871096_467366_2233456_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs267.snc4/39664_147368648610996_118100984871096_467363_4993842_n.jpg

[dtnphx]

You know, in the middle of the summer, it's hard to get excited by anything because it's so friggin' hot and it feels desolate, but the cool thing is that we have a brand new development opening in this shit-ass economy that has a zero-vacancy retail component. Once everything is open and the synergy that it brings (and cooler temps) we'll wonder how we lived without it. Plus, soon I'm thinking a formal announcement about the hotel will be coming. I'm kinda optimistic. :banana:

[phoenixwillrise]

Thanks for taking the photos. Do any of you know how big those trees can get with their root systems sitting on top of a parking garage?

[Tito714]

It really isn't that bad. I was there. That's me in the 6th picture in the Arizona State shirt. More grass could have helped and the bridge is pretty cool. I really hope the water shoots up higher than it did today.

[Phxguy]

The retail side is actually turning out better than I expected. I wasn't really expecting grass but hopefully it might cool some of the concrete off. If the water fountains don't shoot off any higher than they did in the picture then they were a waste. So I'm guessing the retail plaza is open to the public now?

[Vicelord John]

Yes its open to the public now.

Met pete today he is the manager of the cvs. Nice guy and he stocks all the reg beers + arrogant bastard which just so happens to be my fave. Wine and liquor too. They have grocery items but they are all the cheapest of the cheap. I dont consume chemical wonderland food so unfortunately im out of luck there.

Still awesome to have this store though. Walked there in 11 minutes today.

[plinko]

This (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q190/asilman/cityscape/Picture001.jpg?1280172844) is just painful to look at. What is going in on the 2nd floor over the CVS? It's amazing how un-detailed the facade of this building is, especially when compared to Gold's or Urban Outfitters.

I don't really know what to say about the plaza except that 5 months out of the year you'll go snowblind walking across it. Take all the concrete and make it grass, and all the grass and make it concrete. Somehow I think it'll work a little better. Ugggghhh...

[Evil Empire]

^ It looks like a great, little suburban medical plaza.

[combusean]

Somebody tell me why grass is considered a huge waste of water in light of fountains that shoot up from non-permeable concrete?

I give them a month before somebody slips, sues, and they're turned off for good. They can be the modern, pathetic version of the green laser.

[dtnphx]

I do like the vistas that can be seen from inside the courtyard (see above photos). Being surrounded (or partially, that is, by skyscrapers makes it cooler than it may be aestheticlly on its own.

[HooverDam]

Any of you guys have photos of the 1st Ave/Jefferson facades of the CVS building? I'm curious to see how the vertical/horizontal signage and shade elements worked out. We haven't seen those angles in awhile.

For the most part there isn't any signage hiding the huge swaths of grey concrete, uninspired flatness, its horrific.

I went down and walked around the plaza yesterday, its just so fucking embarrassingly bad. I wish there was someone there I could yell at about it just to get it out of me. The splash pad is a giant waste because its horrible designed and completely uninspired. There's no shade above it or through out most of the plaza, even when the trees grow in* there won't be enough shade due to the design. Some sort of shade structure that filters the sun (not blocks it) with an artistic flair should've been built above the pad.

And like Plink selected in that one photo, the facade is just amazingly non detailed and bad. Its so fucking bleak, I really don't know how things like this keep getting built in Phoenix. The windows on CVS are likewise awful. Just red signs that say "Liquor" and such. How hard would it be for them to create God damned window displays? There are surely merchandising students at ASU that would do the displays for free for classes if CVS was too lazy to do it themselves.

Then there's the uninspired CityScape tower itself. Sure its blue and not brown, so I guess we can applaud that, but other than that, what an uninspired structure. The fact that the utilities stick out like a bump on the head is of course awful, but the way its bright glassy facade reflects a laser beam of heat and light down into the plaza in the afternoon wasn't particularly well thought out. A solid glass structure like that with nothing breaking up its facade and create shade just seems retarded for Phx. Its like any building plucked out of Cincinnati or some place, instead of being designed like a tower that makes more sense for the desert (City Hall tower and its numerous decretive shade structures being a good example).

What are other cities doing where they're able to avoid this sort of shit job by and large? Do they have better people looking over the plans? More specific codes? Would it help if we hired more local architectural firms that took pride in their work and wanted to make local land marks? If we required all buildings of a certain square footage to be LEED certified is it likely we'd see increased quality in aesthetics since there'd naturally be more work and thought put into the structures? Do we need some sort of Central Phoenix architecture Czar? We always hear ideas for local design review boards, but they never come to fruition.

*if they do, we'll see. With all the reflected heat and their shallow planters its a big if.

What is going in on the 2nd floor over the CVS?

I think thats where the Comedy Club is going but HX_Guy or Gymrat would likely know better.

The retail side is actually turning out better than I expected

I can only assume you expected to be raped and hit over the head with a bat upon entering it then.

[Tito714]

Lucky Strike is going above CVS, and the comedy club is going above Urban Outfitters.

[combusean]

This is what won Parks Board approval, and gave me some solace with the site:

http://nitnelav.com/CityScapeNew2.JPG

This is what they built:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q190/asilman/cityscape/Picture001.jpg?1280172844

WTF happened?

[Vicelord John]

What happened is VE

[combusean]

This project is SOL.

Bonds for hotel at Phoenix's CityScape pursued (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/07/28/20100728phoenix-cityscape-hotel-palomar.html)
by Emily Gersema - Jul. 28, 2010 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

The developer of downtown Phoenix's CityScape wants to be first in line for millions of dollars in tax-exempt bonds to build the 250-room Hotel Palomar.

But the money doesn't exist yet.

The Industrial Development Authority for Phoenix on Tuesday approved $57 million in tax-exempt revenue bonds for RED Development's hotel portion of the CityScape project at First and Washington streets.

The board of nine Phoenix business men and women authorizes tax-exempt revenue-bond funding for construction, acquisition, improvement and manufacturing projects within the city. Ultimately, the Phoenix City Council would have to decide whether to issue the bonds backed with federal stimulus money.

Lawyer Bryant Barber, who advised the board on the proposal, said the bonds would enable RED to save money because they are tax-exempt, and pay back the bonds, essentially a loan, more quickly with revenue from the hotel.

"It makes the project more feasible," Barber said.

He added that even though the city has various hotel options, "this would be a boutique hotel, and having hotel options is very important to travelers."

Barber added that it could help support the traffic driven by the $600 million expanded Phoenix Convention Center and sports venues in downtown.

For CityScape to get the bonds, Arizona would first have to recapture federal stimulus monies that cities have failed to spend by the end of the year.

The federal stimulus money that could back them hasn't been recouped by the state, and city and state officials are uncertain if it ever will be.

As part of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, Arizona received $135 million in "recovery-zone-facility bond" money for projects meant to finance new development in areas struggling from the recession.

The state doled out the money in chunks to various cities and counties for various projects. Phoenix received the most of all cities - $32 million - while other cities and counties received a share that ranged from as little as $806,000 up to $25 million.

Phoenix already has spent this portion of its stimulus to provide $30 million for two new buildings on the W.L. Gore and Associates' medical-products manufacturing site near Interstate 17 and Carefree Highway, and to give $2 million for the paint maker, Dunn-Edwards Paints, to set up a new factory in south Phoenix.

City officials - and CityScape builder RED Development - are hopeful that other Arizona cities have not found a way to spend their share of those stimulus funds. Cities that kept the money face a Jan. 1 deadline or the state can recall it and give it to other projects.

Arizona Department of Commerce spokesman David Drennon said that as far as he knows, no cities with unspent federal stimulus dollars have returned the money.

[plinko]

What happened is VE

As an architect I can tell you that there is 'value' engineering and then there is just bad design. This seems to fall much toward the latter. You think David Hovey's local projects don't get VE'd? Imagine what kind of space he might have created there (or Eddie Jones or Jack Black or Gould Evans, etc).

I'm always willing to give a developer and designer the benefit of the doubt (because I'm often on the other side of the table), but this appears just astronomically bad.

It's amazing to me that something so simple as shade seems to escape so many designers. I would have settled for gravel with benches with mesquite trees placed at similar intervals to the City Courthouse right up the street (the one by DMJM).

[HX_Guy]

Combusean: I was about to post the same thing. So what exactly does this mean? That they don't have any funds yet and won't know if they will have the funds until Jan 1st at the earliest?

[Tito714]

I remember hearing the mayor say on monday that they secured finance, but won't be able to start until second quarter 2011

[glynnjamin]

If the space werent so close to the existing farmers market, I'd say that space would be great to host a weekly farmers market. It kills me that they ripped up an entire city block of grass (albeit dead grass) and replaced it with this. Too bad the city doesn't have the balls to sue them/enforce the original plan. A lot of people turned out to fight for the old park and were promised a replacement. Is this really supposed to be it?

[vertex]

Combusean: I was about to post the same thing. So what exactly does this mean? That they don't have any funds yet and won't know if they will have the funds until Jan 1st at the earliest?

It means that RED doesn't have the confidence to build the hotel without a handout.

So yes, the project is SOL.

[HX_Guy]

Well, SOL unless they get the money, right?

And why is it a handout? Seems to be a loan from what Im reading in the article, no?

[vertex]

^^^
City officials - and CityScape builder RED Development - are hopeful that other Arizona cities have not found a way to spend their share of those stimulus funds. Cities that kept the money face a Jan. 1 deadline or the state can recall it and give it to other projects.

After reading (or re-reading) this article, do you really believe that RED is still motivated to build the hotel without stimulus funds?

[NorthScottsdale]

I think we are judging the final outcome too soon. I think that once you get signage for all the various retail, outdoor tables, umbrellas, etc., it will look a lot more aesthetically pleasing. There is nothing open yet except the CVS so of course it looks dull and boring.

[CANUC]

Any guesses on how long before some douche security guard tries to bounce a pedestrian from this "public" plaza for sitting on the grass?

[Vicelord John]

Already happened (not the grass though) to me because I was walking around inspecting everything. He told me it isn't open to the public right now only customers of CVS. I told him to fuck off, literally. I am starting to think I have no manners.

[kaneui]

Either way, I don't know what kind of architecturally defining stuff in the context of Library Tower could be thought of for this site.

The department store building they tore down was a lost cause. It was too big to be rehabbed cost-effectively and like everything else downtown it was obsolete for the site with highrise entitlements.

My architectural suggestions were for the project as a whole, as the structural problems with the PSP block would preclude any towers there. But in the end, CityScape gives us a single nondescript office tower, a bland suburban retail/restaurant plaza, and a stub for a new hotel that probably won't be built anytime soon.

It's hard not to get in comparison mode, but the construction photos here on SSP of downtown Salt Lake's new City Creek Center are very encouraging--a sophisticated mixed-use project that is light years away from what RED has gifted Arizona's "urban core" with.

[mgmAZCO]

Well the City Creek Center benefits from all that LDS money, so I don't think their budget was as vulnerable to the economic downturn. I believe it's being built by the real estate arm of the church. But yes, Phoenix could have done much much more with this site.

Overall it's too bad that the look of the project is rather uninspiring. Signage and hopefully some outdoor seating and umbrellas will add a little more interest to the area. Like others have commented, I wish some shade structures could have been added. At least that's something they can do in the future, we can only hope.

[Urban Rising]

There is some positive news to report on the hotel portion. RED has released the architect (new to the project within the last 2 weeks) to coordinate and finalize the differences between the Davis and the Callison drawings. Hunt is being brought back to be a design build general contractor.

As previously stated by others the design will include office on top of hotel. The office portion will look very similar to the existing office tower, while the hotel I do not know (I have a pretty good guess/insight but I prefer to provide facts not my opinion).

In addition, a hotel should eventually be built. The current office tower has lawyers as their major tenant base. Their leases currently include provisions that a hotel will be onsite. I highly doubt RED is in the mood to fight with an army of lawyers.

So there are some positives, but until there is money and somebody pulls a permit I'm not that excited. With this new spin about the search for bond money to assist the financing it will certainly delay the final opening.

[HX_Guy]

I was hoping that there would be some stipulation in the leases that a hotel had to be built since a few of the law first said that was one of the main reasons why they relocated to Cityscape.

Can you say who the new architect is? What happened to both Davis and Callison and they aren' either on the project anymore?

Any idea on the number of floors? Total height?

[Vicelord John]

I'm the architect, the owner of the hotel, and the general manager. It's the hotel John. It will have 47 rooms over 47 floors. Each room will be 9,500 square feet and will have it's own pool.

Before you say thats far fetched, let me remind you of how far fetched the idea of this hotel being built any time soon is..... VERY.

[plinko]

There is some positive news to report on the hotel portion. RED has released the architect (new to the project within the last 2 weeks) to coordinate and finalize the differences between the Davis and the Callison drawings. Hunt is being brought back to be a design build general contractor.

This right here tells me alot.

The reconciliation of the design (along with engineering) will be run concurrently with construction re-pricing in order to do one simple thing: go finance shopping.

It tells me that RED is indeed intent on getting the 2nd tower done in some incarnation (apparently their marketing says office on top) and based on the other noted legal stipulations (to their signed tenants) they are working towards a solution.

All that being said, the tower is thus likely to be stripped down to the lowest common denominator design-wise (due to keeping down projected costs).

AND...(most importantly)...after all that they still have to find a bank/financier/bonds/pimp to then agree to fund the thing...in this market...

Yikes...

Thanks for the info UrbanRising, you seem to be wired in pretty good with local details.

*edit* I'd like to note that the actual height (and possibly even number of floors) probably isn't determined quite yet and won't be done until the design reconciliation is completed. And even then...it's all conjecture until it's actually built...

[Vicelord John]

Between Plinko and Urban Rising, it sounds like we have the making of a good development team!

[PHX31]

Urban Rising = Jahna Berry.

j/k