Phoenix CityScape Thread

[Vicelord John]

this building is going to make the temps hot around it... its like it is chrome plated...

[Jsmscaleros]

For sure - I would like to see a tower in Phoenix fitted with shades all the way up, like at the Burton Barr Library: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/55/142165969_a91de3c51f.jpg?v=0

OCPE has done a cool job with metal shades, but while they eliminate direct sunlight to the interior, they still radiate heat.

[NIXPHX77]

My friend was biking around downtown this AM and said the 3rd crane at CS is being put up! :yes: :tup: :banana:

[gymratmanaz]

pics to follow... Third crane is up and moving. It is really cool to see 4 cranes on one site.

The crane installer gave a little info. The crane that is located in Central will be the one to build the hotel and tower. the newest crane is simply for the garage and buildings on the east side.

They can extend the crane for more height by wrapping it with the crane extension device, just like the one on the first crane. I had thought that the extender was a piece that fit in the crane. It is actually a device that is put on and around an existing crane.

[HX_Guy]

Now that makes sense about the crane on Central building the tower since its very close to the building's elevator core...and thats true about the crane raising mechanism, I remember one of the Sheraton cranes had one attached at a later date after the crane was erected.

[gymratmanaz]

Little by little the puzzle comes together.

[HX_Guy]

And here are the pictures...a mix from my and gymratmanaz (I went to the bridal show today at the convention center so I was able to snap a few shots).

http://nitnelav.com/DTJune72009/1.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTJune72009/2.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTJune72009/3.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTJune72009/4.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTJune72009/5.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTJune72009/6.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTJune72009/7.jpg

[NIXPHX77]

very nice. thx HXG and GRMA.

[bwonger06]

Very nice... three cranes makes a huge difference in the skyline and cannot ait another month for the two to be in place at the courthouse..

[AZ KID]

Thanks for the great pics! I cant believe the core for the office tower has almost topped out!

[Leo the Dog]

24 floors complete. 3 more to go??

[gymratmanaz]

and then two more for the crown!!!

[PHX Skyline]

How tall is this building supposed to be. I've heard 28 floors, 27, and 30. Also, how many other buildings are gonna be with cityscape, and how tall will they be?

[gymratmanaz]

Skyline. I reccommend you go back through some of the forum to see all of those answers. They change depending on the source and time. You'll get a lot of info doing that, even if only for 5 or so pages......

[HX_Guy]

How tall is this building supposed to be. I've heard 28 floors, 27, and 30. Also, how many other buildings are gonna be with cityscape, and how tall will they be?

27 physical floors for the office tower currently under construction.

One additional tower planned (2 total) which will be 20 floors and under 300', probably around 250' or so, similar to Summit at Copper Square.

[Vicelord John]

Skyline. I reccommend you go back through some of the forum to see all of those answers. They change depending on the source and time. You'll get a lot of info doing that, even if only for 5 or so pages......
what a shitty answer to give someone.

[Buckeye Native 001]

what a shitty answer to give someone.

Agreed. Numerous estimates on the total height can be seemingly found on every page of this thread, not to mention nonstop freaking out about this project turning into Collier Center, Part Deux.

Hell, I've been following this thread for years and I still don't know what the final height will be for the 27 story tower...

[gymratmanaz]

Now Now Vicelord. Breath. I wasn't trying to be a dick. I leave that to you. :) I was simply saying there is no specific answer. The best way to get a grasp of that is to look back at 5 or so pages. I know that might take all of about 10 minutes, but the result will be a better understanding than one of us giving an answer and then ten others arguing the point.

[Vicelord John]

I'm sorry, that was too much for me to read.

[HX_Guy]

New permit issued today...

Description/Scope of Work: COMMERCIAL NEW

DESCRIPTION OF WORK: FULL T.I. BUILD-OUT FOR FIDELITY NATIONAL TITLE INCLUDING COMMON TENANT CORRIDORS. THE BUILDING AND ENERGY CODE WAS ADDRESSED WITH THE SHELL BUILDING DOCUMENTS.

[PHX31]

"T.I." = Tenant Improvements?

I think I'll be slightly more impressed with the look and height of tower 1 once it is finished as compared to what I was imagining when it began construction, especially when viewed from the south. Plus, it peaks out over the phelps dodge tower when viewed from the north, so that is good and gives DT more dimension.

[HX_Guy]

Yea, T.I. is Tenant Improvements.

[gymratmanaz]

Come on Vicelord. RIF - Reading Is Fundamental. Everyone's doing it. Join us! :)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Plus the first tower is a huge filler in the skyline coming from the East. It connects the Collier Center to the rest of the skyline. Wish I could slow down enough to get a good picture from the freeway, 202.

[PhxPavilion]

Hell, I've been following this thread for years and I still don't know what the final height will be for the 27 story tower...

Should be in the area of 385'.

[gymratmanaz]

27 stories and about a 2 story crown from what I hear?

[Buckeye Native 001]

Should be in the area of 385'.

Thank you.

[gymratmanaz]

Just drove past...so cool to see three cranes working at the same time!!! It is busy down there. Lots of action going on!!!

[HX_Guy]

Should be in the area of 385'.

Actually 368' from this document back in January...

http://nitnelav.com/cityscapeplan11.jpg

[Vicelord John]

She is the damned stupidest and most un-trustworthy reporter I think AZcentral has on it's staff, but still...

250-room hotel on rise at CityScape site
by Jahna Berry - Jun. 9, 2009 10:46 AM
The Arizona Republic
As more windows go up on CityScape's office tower, the beginnings of a 250-room hotel has begun to rise out of the ground at the CityScape construction site.

The three-block $900 million project will bring shops, offices, restaurants, a grocery store and a pharmacy to downtown Phoenix, the developer says. When it's complete, CityScape will stretch from First Avenue to Second Street and from Washington Street to Jefferson Street in downtown Phoenix.

The office tower is expected to top out - reach its highest point - around July 15, officials say.
"We are getting a floor and half (of windows) up a week," said Brent Leif construction manager at Hunt Construction Group. "We are right where we want to be."

Crews recently assembled a third tower crane on the site, which will help build a garage and, later, part of the hotel, Leif added.

In 2011, the San Francisco-based Kimpton Hotels & Restaurants chain plans to open Hotel Palomar, which will include about 165 condos.

The 29-story building will have two levels of shops, 10 hotel floors and 17 floors of residential space, said Jeff Moloznik, development manager for RED Development, the project's developer.

Construction continues on the first two Cityscape blocks, but the economic slump has delayed work on the third block.

Early plans called for 1,000 condos and a second hotel to be built on the block bound by Washington, Jefferson, First and Second streets.

The developer for that block, Barron Collier, says that it plans to build when the economy improves.

City leaders are closely watching CityScape's progress.

More than $120 million in city incentives is linked to the deal.

Phoenix agreed to purchase the project's underground parking garage and pay for repairs to an existing parking garage at a cost of $96.5 million.

In addition, it will waive the property taxes on key components for eight years, worth at least $26 million, according to past city estimates.

[HX_Guy]

So they are still saying the hotel will have condos above it? That's contrary to what we have heard from a couple of sources on here.

I want to think that the sources on here are correct...but why would Jeff keep hammering away at the fact that there will still be condos?

This is also the first time we're hearing about the tower being 29 floors.

[Vicelord John]

that's because she is full of shit.

I've sent her several emails over the past 6 months or so calling her out on her "reporting" with the most blatant bullshit story being about the H&M chain looking at downtown for their next store.

[HX_Guy]

I don't thinks he would make up shit that another person said...would she? I mean she's basically quoting what Jeff Moloznik said himself.

[PHX31]

The Jeff guy is probably telling the reporter (who will get the word out across town) that the condos are going in to make the development look better and possibly make some people happy. However, they may not have any intention of putting in condos.

However, I KNOW there used to be requirements by the city that the project have at least SOME condos put in. I know the requirements/stipulations have changed, but did the city really back all the way down and let RED get away with zero residential for the first couple phases?

Residential downtown was very important to the city, and as poorly as things are selling downtown, I'm fairly certain they made condos a requirement. but things have changed so much i'm not so sure.

[Vicelord John]

I reckon it's something he said a while ago and no longer holds true

[HX_Guy]

The Jeff guy is probably telling the reporter (who will get the word out across town) that the condos are going in to make the development look better and possibly make some people happy. However, they may not have any intention of putting in condos.

However, I KNOW there used to be requirements by the city that the project have at least SOME condos put in. I know the requirements/stipulations have changed, but did the city really back all the way down and let RED get away with zero residential for the first couple phases?

Residential downtown was very important to the city, and as poorly as things are selling downtown, I'm fairly certain they made condos a requirement. but things have changed so much i'm not so sure.

As much as it sucks, I don't believe residential was ever a requirements for these two blocks.

Well...hold on...let me rephrase that...

There was a residential component requirement when the whole thing got started and was treated all as one project. The requirement was for 500 condo units that was to be built on Block 23 (eastern most block).
When the project got split up into seperate blocks (Block 77 + Block 22 and Block 23 by itself), the residential component got split off and therefore was no longer a requirement for RED to get their incentives.

[PHX31]

ah ha... well as with most stuff that gets built here, we'll just have to wait until the final product is constructed and delivered to get our answers.

[HX_Guy]

The frustrating thing is...why can't we get some straight answers?

The only thing I can think of is that RED wants to keep the hype up about the project to continue to lure tenants. It would not sound all that great if every new article about the project talked about how they are scaling back again and are canceling residential portions.

[PHX31]

Yeah, that's kind of what I meant... if they shitcan all residential, it will be harder to lure commercial and retail tenants. So they say what they want to make the project sound as good as possible.

I think the investigative work done on this forum is much better than any newspaper... i bet Jahna or others lurk on this forum, and I'm not going to be surprised when you (HX) or some other forum member is quoted in an article.

[PhxPavilion]

Actually 368' from this document back in January...

Possibly, I don't think that document includes the crown though. Bank of America is 360' at 23 floors and we know that the Cityscape office tower is class A office space, so 368 seems kind of short. I've seen 375' and 385' listed the most in regards to this tower, it'll probably end up somewhere in between; of all the things at Cityscape, this has gone through the least amount of change.

[HX_Guy]

Good point though it seems to be all over the place a little bit.

Phelps Dodge: 289' - 20 floors: 14.45'/floor
Bank of America: 360' - 23 floors: 15.65'/floor
Two Renaissance: 372' - 28 floors: 13.28'/floor
One Renaissance: 347' - 26 floors: 13.34'/floor

[PhxPavilion]

Yeah, the problem is taking into account mechanical levels and crowns, not to mention the first one or two floors are typically much taller than the rest. The first three of tower 1 appear to be almost twice the height of the rest.

The Qwest tower is 397' at only 25 floors!

[HX_Guy]

Also, some building count floor #13 and some done. I don't know if these heights here on SSP are actual floor counts or if they are what the elevator says.

[gymratmanaz]

If you look at one of the recent pictures I took. They have labeled each floor number, and they include floor #13. interesting....

about condos - I think I still saw mention of redidential in the most recent update of the Cityscape website. It was most recently updated in April. now they could have just decided to leave it in, but it was there in their list of what Cityscape IS.

They are 1/2 way through floor 25, and the parking garage is up to the 3rd level.

PSP side got some big white palets dropped off - not sure what they are.

By the time they get the other two garage levels done, I am betting they will be done with all the prep needed to get started on the rest of the garage. The walls are alsmost done, columns are mostly poured, and almost all the dirt is removed.

[combusean]

Yeah, the problem is taking into account mechanical levels and crowns, not to mention the first one or two floors are typically much taller than the rest. The first three of tower 1 appear to be almost twice the height of the rest.

The Qwest tower is 397' at only 25 floors!

QFT. You can't divide by number of floors to get a height per floor.

Plinko posted this a LONG time ago which I've kept as a reference.


Office floors in buildings like Collier are typically between 12'-6" and 13'-6", depending on floor plate size and structure (the smaller the plate, the
less the floor heights). 'Deck to Deck' is essentially the same measurement. This allows 9'-0" standard office ceilings and enough plenum space for
mechanical, cabling and lighting.

Courthouse and classroom buildings typically have higher floor to floor heights for a variety of reasons, typically more in the 14'-16' range. Alot of the
reason is to have large column free interiors with high ceilings.

Residential and hotel floors are typically fed mechanically through vertical sidewall shafts and have short structural spans and usually wind up between 9'
to 10'-6" depending on desired ceiling height.

Parking garages are typically between 8'-6" and 10'-0", depending on ramp configuration, structural span and type, etc. The floor with ADA parking has to be
taller (8'-2" clear from finish floor to underside of structure) for those big stupid vans.

ANYWAY, typically how I would look at a standard office building (in big dumb round numbers) is this way:

30' for a lobby (also allowing 2 levels of retail)
13' for each floor to floor
18' for the penthouse floor
25' for the mechanical /elevator penthouse (usually some decorative roof feature).

So in big dumb round numbers, a 24 story office tower like Colliers should be: 30' + 22(13') + 18' + 25' = 359'

One Collier Center is 360'-8" to the top of the mansard.

It's pretty close (within 5%) for Phelps Dodge as well:

6 parking floors (10') + 13 office (13') + 18' + 25' = 272' (289' being the actual height)

Way too many people on this site just take the overall height and divide by floors. That doesn't work.

[LAFINDOG]

The height as listed on the current architectural drawings is 363'-00". However there hacve been some revisions to the mechanical screen and it will prbably top out at 370 when it is surveyed at the end of the project.
On block 77 (PSP) there really isn't much going on because RED has not secured the financing for the project to go vertical. However the residential element of the project is completely dead for both block 77 and block 22.

[HX_Guy]

Uh...that's a little concerning about Block 77, isn't it? I mean that is where AJs and CVS are supposed to go.

[AZ KID]

I find that hard to believe. I just cant imagine that after all of the planning that they dont have financing for psp. If anything thats what would seem to be the most secure block (AJ's, CVS, Urban Outfiters). Also it seems that every couple of weeks there is some sort of revision. The economy has been in the toliet for a while now... wouldnt you think that RED would have made a decision by now?

[HX_Guy]

Anyone know what loan RED Development/Cityscape got from Phoenix Development and Revitalization, LLC?

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:Og6KM5Kqi5IJ:phoenix.gov/pubmeetr/1161.html+%22Phoenix+Development+and+Revitalization,+LLC%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

APPROVED

5.Approval of Loan:

* PCDIC as managing member of Phoenix Development and Revitalization, LLC to approve the proposed RED Development/Cityscape loan.

* The Board may vote to convene in Executive Session to discuss this matter pursuant to A.R.S. §§ 38-431.03(A) (3) and (A) (4).
* This item is for information, discussion and action

Roberto Franco, President/Vice Chairman, Patrick Vahey & Craig Dale, Capmark Finance and representatives from RED Development

[gymratmanaz]

Maybe someone could forward this forum to RED. Wonder what they would say?

[HX_Guy]

They would probably think that...

A) We have too much time on our hands
B) Why do we care so much
C) We're nuts

:)

[gymratmanaz]

D) All Of The Above ;)

[reguyphx]

I think that is just an approval back in April of the loan commitment they got from Key Bank. I think they had to approve the loan because of the reimbursement of the parking garage that the city has agreed to. I don't think it means that Phoenix Development and Revitalization, LLC is providing a loan, only approving a loan by a 3rd party that was brokered by Capmark.

[renone]

PSP side got some big white palets dropped off - not sure what they are.


The big white palets are a lightweight foam substance they are using to fill in the planter holes in PSP. They are cutting the foam, filling the hole, and pouring concrete on top.

I agree they arent doing much on the PSP block right now, but they are currently pouring concrete footings for something to go vertical. In addition, there are probably 2 or 3 survey teams on the PSP block right now. It seems like if the PSP portion of this project was stalled, we wouldn't be seeing the prep work I'm seeing right now. Just a thought.

[gymratmanaz]

Good man RENONE. Any chance for one of your window pictures?

[renone]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3414/3614497888_c9fe17779a_o.jpg

[PHX31]

OK, so of the 3 downtown blocks where cityscape is going, we're going to go from having one empty lot, one half empty lot and a MCM JC Penny's building, and one city park.. to having two completely empty lots (JC Penny's demolished, PCP demolished and both may sit) and one lot with two towers on it. I'll take the latter, but the fact that the center of our downtown is so shitty to have two gigantic empty lots does not look or feel good. And I feel the City and RED are screwing us.

[HX_Guy]

Block 77 is going to happen, it has to in order for RED to get the $$$ from the city. There is what, about $100 Million at stake for them?

They do also already have building permits for a north and south building on Block 77...which doesn't guarantee anything of course, but the permits did cost them about $60k. Why would they already get permits if they weren't 100% sure that they would go forward.

Again, I just don't see Block 77 not happening. It has to in order for them to get their incentive money.

[plinko]

So if the drawings say 363' and there is somewhat of a redesign going on, don't expect too much if any height increase. Maybe up to 375' even, but unfortunately you can't add too much to the parapet thanks to the extra wind loads and weight.

So who knows? The building need only get to 373' to be the third tallest in DT Phoenix.

BTW, thanks to Combusean for re-posting my very wordy but succinct formula for building heights. It bothers me immensely when people just take the height and divide by floors.

[HX_Guy]

Isn't 44 Monroe taller then 373'? I thought it was around 380' or slightly higher.

[plinko]

^I know at one point somebody said 381', but I think that might have been with the big crown we were all expecting. I'm not sure.

[Tfom]

I'm beginning to think we should each gather as many legos as we can and just build a new tallest DT and get it out of our system.

[PHX31]

/\ Hahahahahaha!!!

[gymratmanaz]

I am going to the D-Backs tonight. I'll toss a Lego on to PSP for you.

[kingofleos]

Hey, gang.

I'm new to the Forum. I've always been into our downtown scene and the buildings over the years built, proposed, or cancelled. It's great to see so many others who are really into this stuff as well.

I'll be getting a new camera soon and will probably brake it in downtown, so I'd be happy to post extra pics when possible.

Thanks for the great pics already and info, this site is awesome!

[combusean]

Welcome king! :D

[kingofleos]

Thanks. :)

It's amazing and sad to see what we were first offered in CityScape, to what it's becoming now.

I remember when it first was announced, I was quick to throw my name on the supporter's list. I was so excited for the addition to downtown. I remember wishing we'd had a better downtown since I was a child.

I really hope all this talk about the 2nd tower not going up is just conjecture. I do think what has happened to our downtown is pretty phenomenal.

Let's hope the steam doesn't run out on this great project.

[gymratmanaz]

Good to have you on board to add a little more water and heat to our steam!!!

[combusean]

Yes, our hot, steamy... what now?

o.O

[gymratmanaz]

Now Now Combusean. Keep it rated G.

[PhxPavilion]

I really hope all this talk about the 2nd tower not going up is just conjecture.

It looks very likely that the second tower is a go, just much shorter than it was originally going to be.

[kingofleos]

Ah, I see.

It's kind of depressing to see what the original design compared to what it is now becoming.

But, like someone else said, it's better than an ugly parking lot or empty space.

[Evil Empire]

It looks very likely that the second tower is a go, just much shorter than it was originally going to be.

Ah, I see.

It's kind of depressing to see what the original design compared to what it is now becoming.

But, like someone else said, it's better than an ugly parking lot or empty space.

Was there a contract signed that guaranteed that SOMETHING had to be built? If so, maybe it would kind of be a good idea to hold off on building a tiny version of what was supposed to be built until the market picks up again...seeing as how it's supposed to be downtown's true core and the location and everything.

[kingofleos]

If I'm not mistaken, city money is tied into the project so either contracts get voided and the city gets their money, or the project still goes through.

Now, how they get to determine what building is built, and how big is another thing altogether. I'm sure there has to be stipulations by the builder (RED), that allow for concessions if they think demand has dwindled or completely gone.

It just sucks because I know plenty of people who would love to live down there and give their business. Maybe we could all offer to chip in free labor, lol.

[Luke Skyscraper]

Has the 25th floor been completed yet? Can anyone tell if the elevator core topped out? Any idea when the retail buildings will start to be constructed? Anyone who can post a photo or two, it would be greatly appreciated!

[HX_Guy]

Has the 25th floor been completed yet? Can anyone tell if the elevator core topped out? Any idea when the retail buildings will start to be constructed? Anyone who can post a photo or two, it would be greatly appreciated!

Yes, the 25th floor has been completed and yes the elevator core has topped out at the 27th floor.

http://wwc.instacam.com/instacamimg4/phbob/06122009/061220091308_l.jpg

[combusean]

The elevator core should continue to grow larger (2 floors ish) for the mechanical penthouse... right?

[HX_Guy]

I thought so too, but I don't see the normal construction going on which was the core jumping every Friday. There isn't even rebar above the 27th floor of the core.

[gymratmanaz]

*25th floor done
*almost up to 14 floors of glass
*3 1/2 floors of new garage level.
*1/4 of the remainder covered in rebar, to be poured with cement
*new elevator shaft at 4th level with rebar
*lots of prep activity at PSP
*more styro filled tree wells
*more bases for construction poured
*Knocked down the last glass block column this morning
...

[HX_Guy]

It will get interesting once the elevator core of the hotel tower reaches grade...will it continue on above the street level, and if so, how high? They will go at least 1 floor above grade...but if they go 2+, then that's the sign we need. That will probably be our first indication on if the second tower will actually happen.

[Evil Empire]

It will get interesting once the elevator core of the hotel tower reaches grade...will it continue on above the street level, and if so, how high? They will go at least 1 floor above grade...but if they go 2+, then that's the sign we need. That will probably be our first indication on if the second tower will actually happen.

So is the hotel separate or actually part of the second tower? Because according to the AZCentral article, it is...but from some of the renderings I've seen, it's like built right next to it but attached.

[HX_Guy]

It's part of it...it's the first 10 floors of the tower.

http://nitnelav.com/cityscaperender0507092.jpg
http://www.thedavisexperience.com/images/spotlight/cityScape/1.jpg

[CANUC]

It will get interesting once the elevator core of the hotel tower reaches grade...will it continue on above the street level, and if so, how high? They will go at least 1 floor above grade...but if they go 2+, then that's the sign we need. That will probably be our first indication on if the second tower will actually happen.

That might be the case however is it practical to open up the entire parking garage if the only thing that gets built in the mean time is the office tower? If it isn't wouldn't it be more likely that they would never even put the second elevator core to use? At least not until it is determined what will happen to the second tower. If they do open the entire parking garage for use but still hold off on the second tower I don't see whey they would need to rise above grade. I can think of at least two under ground garages that do not have above grade mechanical cores. I believe the one that OCPE replaced was one of them.

[PHX31]

Hmmm... I was just thinking... won't tower 2 as it is now planned look weird? The bottom 10 floors being a hotel will be much wider than the top 10 office floors. It will look like a giant-tiny step stool. If the skinner tower portion on top of the hotel was taller (like it looks in the renderings above) it might look good/fine. But only 10 extra stories above the hotel might look stupid.

[CANUC]

:previous: Can you say the W hotel "toilet" part redux.

[Evil Empire]

Thanks, HX Guy.

Hmmm... I was just thinking... won't tower 2 as it is now planned look weird? The bottom 10 floors being a hotel will be much wider than the top 10 office floors. It will look like a giant-tiny step stool. If the skinner tower portion on top of the hotel was taller (like it looks in the renderings above) it might look good/fine. But only 10 extra stories above the hotel might look stupid.

I thought it was 17 floors on top of the hotel...at least according to that article, however reliable it was.

[AZ KID]

^^^Agreed. I think they will have to redesign that tower. Is it possible to build the tower (10 floors hotel and 10 floors whatever) and have the opportunity to add on to it in the future. Like BCBS in chicago?

[HX_Guy]

That might be the case however is it practical to open up the entire parking garage if the only thing that gets built in the mean time is the office tower? If it isn't wouldn't it be more likely that they would never even put the second elevator core to use? At least not until it is determined what will happen to the second tower. If they do open the entire parking garage for use but still hold off on the second tower I don't see whey they would need to rise above grade. I can think of at least two under ground garages that do not have above grade mechanical cores. I believe the one that OCPE replaced was one of them.

It will depend what is above the parking garage. I was thinking more along the lines of the Patriot's Square parking garage where you could take the elevator all the way up to the street level.

Also, on Colliers Center block, where the Marriott hotel was planned, the core does stick up one floor above street level, though it is not in use.
This is most likely what Cityscape will look like if they do cap off the hotel tower at grade.

http://www.nitnelav.com/Colliercore.jpg

[nickkoto]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3414/3614497888_c9fe17779a_o.jpg

I have a dumb question. Why didn't they just fill those holes up with dirt? It's not like they didn't have to haul tons and tons of it away already (note giant hole to the left). What's the purpose of the foam?

[Vicelord John]

My answer to your question:

WEIGHT.

There is a parking garage below, and what weighs less, foam or dirt?

[PhxPavilion]

It will get interesting once the elevator core of the hotel tower reaches grade...will it continue on above the street level, and if so, how high? They will go at least 1 floor above grade...but if they go 2+, then that's the sign we need. That will probably be our first indication on if the second tower will actually happen.

I think the bigger question is if they go past floor 12 (the hotel + lobby and retail).

[Tito714]

I'm new to this thread, even though I've been reading the forum for well over six months, and decided to join in now that I have some disposable time.

Took this pic on Wednsday on Central and Jefferson.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh296/otrebmuh1991/101_0242.jpg

[AZ KID]

Welcome Tito714!

Also thanks for the pic... its always nice to have another forumer who can take photos!

[Jsmscaleros]

I want this thing to hurry and be done solely for the much needed convenience and grocery stores. I also expect LRT usage to increase once riders can actually get to basic needs along the route.

[AZ KID]

Amazing shot by rejuvesite on flicker....

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3599/3622557746_872590d8a1.jpg?v=0

[NIXPHX77]

wow, that is a beautiful shot - love the colors! Thanks for posting.

[combusean]

The Calvin Goode building never looked better. Incredible.

Imagine the Luhrs complex built out with a 515' tower in the right edge :)

[PHX31]

/\ Is that the height limit for the Luhr's block? I do seem to remember that they were granted/entitled to a building that tall (515') there.

[kingofleos]

Thanks for the pic, Tito!

[gymratmanaz]

They are cranking down at Cityscape.

*All 3 cranes moving at the same time.
*Second level of scaffolding is up on newest section of the garage.
*Dirt smoothed on another lowest garage level, awaiting rebar.
*More columns poured for garage.
*Starting columns on 26th floor
*2 cement trucks in position at all times

[kingofleos]

I'm just wondering how long we have to wait until we really know if the 2nd tower will go up or not.

I'd like to assume it is still going to go up, but then again, the project already has been scaled back so nothing would surprise me at this point!