Phoenix CityScape Thread

[gymratmanaz]

Yes, the PSP side of Cityscape. What do we call it?....or do we just call the whole thing Cityscape, which I know it all is. So far, we all refer to it as PSP still. We need a new name. PSP is gone. Block 77 doesn't work either..... Suggestions?

[Leo the Dog]

Western Block?

[plinko]

^how about the 'minimum' block?

[Vicelord John]

How bout we stop worrying about what to call it like we are a comitee of some sort. Call it what you want to call it you bunch of ninnies.

Personally i'll be calling it cityscape.

[HX_Guy]

How about Cityscape Retail Block? Since that is all that is on the block.

[Leo the Dog]

Lets give it a symbol and call it the "Block formally known as PSP".

[HooverDam]

Its still going to be Patriots Square. They took all the bricks with the names of important Phoenix historical figures out of the park and are planning to put them into the new park/square area.

[dtnphx]

PSP is accurate: Park, Shopping, Parking.

[HX_Guy]

Bad news this morning...

AJ's has pulled out of Cityscape due to the Bashas bankruptcy (announced by the mayor). He did say they are in negotiations with another grocer and he may have said local, couldn't hear so well. What other grocer is local? Sprouts?

Also, the hotel only has 1/2 it's financing in place which would most likely explain the delay in construction.

[Vicelord John]

well that just fucking sucks. Guess we aren't going toget downtowns first grocery in decades.

[plinko]

HX, can you make a list of known tenants that are going in? (you seem to be keeping track pretty well).

...so no new downtown grocery store...nice...maybe Fresh & Easy will step up?

[Vicelord John]

Yeaaaaaaaaaaa, fresh and easy, the company with 8 unopened stores around town that they don't have enough money to operate.

that ain't gonna happen.

[HX_Guy]

HX, can you make a list of known tenants that are going in? (you seem to be keeping track pretty well).



Well, according to their last press release (when Lucky Strike Bowling was announced), this was the list of tenants...

Retail/Restaurant

• Lucky Strike Bowling
• AJ’s Fine Foods (now dead)
• Urban Outfitters
• Fox Restaurant Concepts
• Designer District
• Aaron May (2 restaurants)
• Gold’s Gym
• The Breakfast Club
• Press Coffee
• Blu Burger Grille
• Republic Couture
• CVS/pharmacy

Office

• Squires, Sanders and Dempsey
• Fidelity National Title
• Ballard, Spahr, Andrews and Ingersoll
• RED Development
• Jennings, Strouss and Salmon
• Gust Rosenfeld

Hotel

• Kimpton Palomar Hotel

[HooverDam]

Bad news this morning...

AJ's has pulled out of Cityscape due to the Bashas bankruptcy (announced by the mayor). He did say they are in negotiations with another grocer and he may have said local, couldn't hear so well. What other grocer is local? Sprouts?

Also, the hotel only has 1/2 it's financing in place which would most likely explain the delay in construction.

Ooof what a bummer. On the other hand if a Fresh and Easy or Whole Foods went down there instead of an AJs Id be happier/more likely to use it anyway.

EDIT: VV I rarely shop at Whole Foods as there isnt one near me but I am a big fan of the companies CEO so I try to support him where possible is all. But I agree w/ what you mean, though I doubt a Safeway would move in since they have a store just up on McDowell. Fresh and Easy would probably be the best combo of 1. good price, 2. good selection, 3. store w/ a smaller footprint to fit the space

[pbenjamin]

Ooof what a bummer. On the other hand if a Fresh and Easy or Whole Foods went down there instead of an AJs Id be happier/more likely to use it anyway.

Whole Foods would be worse than AJ's. The prices are no better and the selection is limited. If the downtown residents have to drive to 7th Ave and Osborn to buy a 12-pack of Coke, would good is it have a downtown grocery store? An Urban Safeway like they have in San Jose or DC would make a lot more sense. Whole Foods has its place, but if you only get one store, it's not the right one.

[HX_Guy]

Pictures from the 10th story of the Luhr's Building showing all that is going on, and it's quite a bit. I love the bird eye view showing where everything will go...including the shape of the street and positioning of the various buildings which you can see with rebar outlines on Patriot's Square.

For reference, this image from a while back shows the layout and it appears they are following it to a T...nothing seems to have changed in the way of where everything is being built.

http://nitnelav.com/CityscapeAJplan.jpg

There is an entrance to the CVS off of 1st Ave/Jefferson! :D
http://nitnelav.com/DTOct152009/11.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct152009/1.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct152009/2.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct152009/3.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct152009/4.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct152009/5.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct152009/6.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct152009/7.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct152009/8.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct152009/9.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct152009/10.jpg

[PHX31]

I liked the idea of AJ's ready-made lunches and salads and stuff being popular with the downtown crowd.

Why-o-why can't a public market/farmers market go in its place? We all know an actual grocery store isn't going to work downtown. Hardly anyone is going to do a shopping trip there, people are just going to pick up a few things. Unless they sell ready-to-eat lunches and stuff, it's bound to be dead for the most part, especially during off hours.

A public market would be so awesome. Combine the best parts of public/farmers markets from all over the world with those stalls that sell food, like in Asia, and that place would be sweet. Seriously, watch Anthony Bourdain's "no reservations" on the travel channel. In every city he always goes to the best public market areas and areas with street food. It's his favorite part of any city, and it's just a great place in any city.

Of course, something as random and diverse and organic and crazy as that would never be allowed in our formal/standardized society, especially in a master-planned "sterile" development like this.

[HooverDam]

We all know an actual grocery store isn't going to work downtown. .

I don't know that. If something like a Fresh and Easy replaces it they do a lot of ready made stuff, so that shouldnt be too big of a worry. When I lived Downtown I had to drive up to the Safeway on McDowell for groceries it was rather obnoxious. The people who already live downtown will certainly use this store, plus once the economy recovers and 44 Monroe and Summit fill up I imagine there will be a demand for a regular grocery store.

Also having a full service grocery (and drug store) downtown will allow for more new residential developments since the area will have more amenities. Plus I imagine conventioneers will use it, I often hear visitors asking the Downtown Ambassadors where they can just buy a few small things like fruit or toothpaste or whatever and theyre more or less currently told its not available downtown.

[JKPhx]

That view of the site is awesome...the space in between the two towers (mesa project) looks really sweet, I imagine when it is done and when and if the hotel goes up it will become a highlight for the whole project...It is so nice to finally see progress around there again...thanks HX

[Vicelord John]

Build a Trader Joe's and I'll shit myself, video tape it, post it on you tube, and smile the whole time.

[oliveurban]

I'd love to see something more along the lines of a Trader Joe's or a Fresh and Easy Downtown right now. I'd even rather see a Whole Foods. An AJ's at Cityscape would do fine based solely on its extraneous offerings like its cafe, salad bar, bakery, coffee shop, ready-made stuff, etc. Not for its actual groceries (initially). I don't think this because it's located Downtown (because I think there's ripe demand for a genuine grocery store Downtown), but because of Cityscape's specific location. At least right now, a grocery store would do better closer to the residential neighborhoods/developments a little farther north. Cityscape is ground zero for office space and Downtown's commuter population - event goers, tourists, office workers/government employees, etc.

As a reminder, Downtown does already have a very successful (and growing) public farmer's market. I'm there nearly every weekend. It's doing very well, and with continued support, they have impressive expansion plans. Their indoor counterpart the Urban Grocery, right next door, opens late next week in fact. Though it is smaller, it is going to be full-service grocery store - meat, dairy, produce, baked goods, etc. It will not just be another boutique "gourmet market," a la Willo, LGO, etc. Nearly everything sold, as with the neighboring bi-weekly farmer's market, will be entirely organic, sourced locally and on the affordable side.

[pbenjamin]

It will not just be another boutique "gourmet market," a la Willo, LGO, etc.

Willo Grocery went out of business about a year ago. You can still get the bread in My Florist, which was about all the place was good for, anyway.

[PhxPavilion]

I propose we rename Cityscape to Lawyerville.

Anyway, I'm crossing my fingers for a Trader Joe's or a Sprouts.

[AZ KID]

Excellent photo HX. I like the idea of a Sprouts as well.

[oliveurban]

Willo Grocery went out of business about a year ago. You can still get the bread in My Florist, which was about all the place was good for, anyway.

I know, just giving an example of that type of market.

[Leo the Dog]

I actually think the news of AJ's pulling out of CS is good news. DT needs a grocery store that is reasonably priced.

DT simply can't support an AJ's with the current demographics. I fear that it would've closed at 6pm daily once all of the gov't workers/bankers went home.

[dtnphx]

Something tells me RED Development probably had a backup for AJs considering Bashas' financial issues. Not that anything has been done, but I expect their was interest from other food retailers for the space and that perhaps they can step in.

[TAZ4ate0]

Well damn that sucks about AJ's pulling out. Now, if we get a small full service urban grocery store instead, that would be awesome. A scaled down Fry's or Safeway could work well at Cityscape; something like what Basha's did out in Verrado. I would be equally satisfied with a Trader Joe's, Sprouts, or Fresh n Easy I suppose. :)

[Vicelord John]

Trader Joe's!!!!!!! That would be so incredibly awesome.

[HX_Guy]

They have steel beams erected all the way up to Central Ave.
The CVS block walls are also up to about waist high, it's great to see it take shape and see where everything is going to go.

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct202009/1.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct202009/2.jpg

[dtnphx]

They seem to be moving fast. Great to see. Thx HX.

[gymratmanaz]

I stopped by yesterday at 5:45PM and even more was done.

[Vicelord John]

i's told it will be a while before the colorfuls are up and turned on. apparently they don't even have all of them delivered to the jobsite. also, luhrs elevator lobby = omg generic. Carbon copy of the wyndham lobby.

[HooverDam]

i's told it will be a while before the colorfuls are up and turned on. .

Colorfuls?

[HX_Guy]

You guys have to get down there and walk the streets around the project...it has an incredible feel, especially on Jefferson between the Luhrs block and Cityscape, just a great vibe of a city. Even though the retail buildings are only 2 stories, they don't feel strip mall-ish like Arizona Center.

Here are some shots from today...

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct212009/6.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct212009/7.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct212009/9.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct212009/5.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct212009/4.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct212009/1.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct212009/2.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct212009/3.jpg

[HX_Guy]

Quick question to my own post...

What do you guys think this opening what was left may be? Is it possible it will be store front windows? Is that why they haven't put in any blocks?

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct212009/5.jpg

Here is the plan for reference...
http://nitnelav.com/CityscapeAJplan.jpg

[Evil Empire]

Thanks for the pics...can't wait 'til it's all done and ready to go.

[Vicelord John]

Super gay that they are going to leave the mechanical box uncovered. I hate looking at it.....


http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_0002.jpg

[dtnphx]

HX-Can you orient which way is north? I'm trying to grasp on the drawing how it's oriented. The photo speaks for itself. Thanks.

[PHX31]

It doesn't look like it will have an "incredible feel", but I guess compared to what was there (PSP, then nothing), it looks pretty cool. It will look even better once tower 2 is rising in the vicinity.

[plinko]

Quick question to my own post...

What do you guys think this opening what was left may be? Is it possible it will be store front windows? Is that why they haven't put in any blocks?

http://nitnelav.com/DTOct212009/5.jpg


Possibly, but methinks it's more likely left open so that they can pass trucks and equipment through.

It does look somewhat interesting to see a lot line to lot line development in Phoenix, but there are so many things I can see wrong with this I don't know where to start. (but agreed that it's better than what was there).

[HX_Guy]

HX-Can you orient which way is north? I'm trying to grasp on the drawing how it's oriented. The photo speaks for itself. Thanks.

Where you see labeled "Bashas" is the SE corner of the lot. You can orient yourself from there. :)

[dtnphx]

Where you see labeled "Bashas" is the SE corner of the lot. You can orient yourself from there. :)

Right, now it makes sense. Well, now with all the information at hand, my answer is: I have no friggin' idea. :shrug:

[HX_Guy]

I wonder if they'll make any new announcements at the State of Downtown speech seeing how it's being held at Cityscape this year...

http://www.downtownphoenixjournal.com/state-downtown/

http://www.downtownphoenixjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Logo-final2-258x300.jpg

Mayor Phil Gordon hosts his annual State of Downtown event!
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009
Time: 5:00 p.m. – 8:30 p.m.
Location: CityScape on Central Ave & Washington St

[gymratmanaz]

Are we invited?

[HX_Guy]

I think so...if I remember correctly, I went last year when they gave out the Light Rail collectible coins and also everyone got a ride on the light rail before it was in service. And it was free.

[HX_Guy]

From this week's Business Journal...

It seems the condos on top of the hotel are officially dead...not like we didn't already know, but there was never actual confirmation from someone at RED.
The article talks about a 2nd office tower on the same block, which I assume is the rumor we had heard was to replace the condos...but that apparently is on hold too.

The hotel is now listed at 9 stories and should start construction in January 2010 according to the article.

http://nitnelav.com/BizJournalCityscape.jpg

[Jsmscaleros]

It really amazes me that they haven't killed tower 2 completely. I'm not convinced things are getting better for this state from an economic standpoint any time soon. At least downtown will have a few more people running around at night with the hotel completion - if it's completed.

[kaneui]

From earlier media quotes by RED, being able to offer an adjacent hotel as an amenity was apparently a significant factor in getting the preleasing numbers they did, so it would have been a serious negative for RED if they hadn't followed through. Even so, it's still a shame to see this project whittled down to less than half its original size and scope--ALL of the residential portion delayed or removed.

[bwonger06]

Well can you blame them? Anyone with 1/10 of a brain would not build the remaining towers at this point. When you have two empty condos downtown already, why build a third one at CS and with all of OCPE still completely empty and CS Phase I still not leased to a break-even point, there is no point in building.

It is really unfortunate, but Urban Development is going to be dead for the next half decade. The government pulled the FHA guarantees for Condo's which is going to kill condo developments, and Commercial real estate is going to be completely dead for the next two years as unemployment continues to lag behind the economy.

The only hope is the apartment which can lead urban development, the problem is many people who rent tend to look for cheaper options so in a city like Phoenix, it makes more sense to buy cheap land and build cheap apartments.

/End Rant

[plinko]

^That's all fine and good that they want to be open by July of 2011, but there are still no permits on even the hotel portion? I wonder if it's even been submitted for plan check?

If the hotel is being built with a 'future' residential tower above (to be built at some later date), then based on what we've seen, the permits should be fairly quick to get (the design should be finished).

If the hotel has been altered in design with nothing above, that could cause a substantial delay in terms of permitting & construction. Wasn't the hotel originally 12 stories?

If the hotel tower is being planned with a 'future' office tower above (to be built at some later date), there's still the issue of the re-design. You can't just change from a residential structure to an office (though it's easier to go the other way) without substantially altering the structure.

I'm sure RED has smart people working on this (and I hope they've been moving forward since the original rumors about the change from condos to office came out), but I still have severe doubts about the hotel tower given that we haven't seen any permits.

HX, any word from the city on those?

[atl2phx]

it's amazing what a year or two makes. i wonder if CS had turned dirt a year earlier how much different/much further along this development would be now.

no doubt, even if it takes another economic cycle to build out the entire project, CS is a huge improvement for this part of downtown.....that park was an eyesore.

[bwonger06]

it's amazing what a year or two makes. i wonder if CS had turned dirt a year earlier how much different/much further along this development would be now.

no doubt, even if it takes another economic cycle to build out the entire project, CS is a huge improvement for this part of downtown.....that park was an eyesore.

I truly believe Red would be in deep trouble if they started out a year earlier. It is fortunate because it has a large portion of its space pre-leased which cannot be said about the other A-Class buildings that have gone up (Ryan's new Camelback prop, OCPE, Opus's Tempe Property, the development at Washington and 44th Street... etc). Red would be in Opus's position if they built both offices out instead of waiting (bankrupt).

[Leo the Dog]

Well, what exactly does 9 stories mean anyways? What floor do they start counting on? There may be 9 floors of hotel rooms above the Lobby and/or retail floors below. This is also coming from a blurb in the paper, which has routinely provided false/old information about CS.

The north side of the building will be at least 2 stories higher than the south side correct? (on the elevated plaza between the two towers)

[HX_Guy]

It could be 9 stories not including the first 3 of retail/lobby which would still equal the 12 we've heard about previously.

[gymratmanaz]

let's hope for that!!!

[renone]

Nice progress on PSP this week. The entire south side of the PSP block is built vertical, and they are now progressing North on the west side.

[HX_Guy]

Renone: Can you get a picture for us from up there?

[AZScraper]

He's a little pic for the cause. The box on top of the building is the blue motors for the elevators, I agree it does not look good at all. :notacrook:

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k121/ndnwotah/DSC06505.jpg

He's the new hotel from the top.:previous:

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k121/ndnwotah/DSC06525.jpg

:banana:

[gymratmanaz]

Actually that is not the new hotel. It is the new retail (CVS, Lucky Strike, restaurants, and hopefully a grocery store). It is a great picture. You really can see the outline of what is being built. It actually looks impressive when youa re down there in person. Even though it is only two stories, the size of it looks great, especially when on the Leuhrs side of the street.

[AZScraper]

Actually that is not the new hotel. It is the new retail (CVS, Lucky Strike, restaurants, and hopefully a grocery store). It is a great picture. You really can see the outline of what is being built. It actually looks impressive when youa re down there in person. Even though it is only two stories, the size of it looks great, especially when on the Leuhrs side of the street.

Mmm, I'm calling shenanigans. It got the green light. It would seem silly to build all these things, in what, a 2-3 story of stores right in downtown phx?, let's just put a hotel on top of it and put the scape in cityscape. Time will tell. :jester:

[Vicelord John]

Mmm, I'm calling shenanigans. It got the green light. It would seem silly to build all these things, in what, a 2-3 story of stores right in downtown phx?, let's just put a hotel on top of it and put the scape in cityscape. Time will tell. :jester:

no it didn't get the green light, I mean overall. It got the OK from the city, but it didn't get the green from developers. You're arguing with a bunch of urban development nerds, and I guarantee you are wrong.

The two and three story buildings were originally to be 5-6 stories and have condos. The condos were scratched and they are now simply retail buildings, due to the restrictions put in place of the park redevelopment. They had to have x amount of open space. The hotel is supposed to go on the middle block and is a maybe at this point. The tower in your picture is an office tower.

[gymratmanaz]

Thanks Vicelord. ....I was going to be snarky, but you did it with class. Go figure! :)

[HX_Guy]

http://nitnelav.com/DTNov12009/1.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTNov12009/2.jpg

[combusean]

no it didn't get the green light, I mean overall. It got the OK from the city, but it didn't get the green from developers. You're arguing with a bunch of urban development nerds, and I guarantee you are wrong.

The two and three story buildings were originally to be 5-6 stories and have condos. The condos were scratched and they are now simply retail buildings, due to the restrictions put in place of the park redevelopment. They had to have x amount of open space. The hotel is supposed to go on the middle block and is a maybe at this point. The tower in your picture is an office tower.

The residential units on the park block were supposed to be apartments, and were in the redesign of the first yecch plan. The owners of renaissance towers wouldn't let them build any taller than 2-3 stories, so they were nixed by the developer.

[Tempe_Duck]

The residential units on the park block were supposed to be apartments, and were in the redesign of the first yecch plan. The owners of renaissance towers wouldn't let them build any taller than 2-3 stories, so they were nixed by the developer.


Why would the owners of renaissance have any say over what another property owner can do with their land?

[combusean]

^ Because they own it too. They own a few floors of the garage and the surface unit is governed by CC&R's.

[gymratmanaz]

I just drove by, lots more beams up on PSP. Also, I can't tell, either they removed the molds on the tower 2 elevator shaft, or they have added a lot of rebar going up. Can anyone confirm which it is. It did look taller, but I couldn't tell when I drove by twice.

[HX_Guy]

Looks like all they did was remove the molds. They did not add more rebar going up.

What does this mean? I have no idea...maybe Plinko can chime in.

http://nitnelav.com/corebefore.jpg
http://nitnelav.com/coreafter.jpg

[Tito714]

it's good to know i'm not the only one who drives by twice. But it did seem taller I thought It was my mind messing with me.

[plinko]

You guys have a better picture? Hard to tell from a pixelated webcam...

[HX_Guy]

Maybe someone can get by there to grab one sooner then I can...but basically they just removed the forms off the core rebar without pouring concrete in to fill it. Why would they do something like that?

[plinko]

^Without a clear picture, it's hard to tell...however...

The concrete sub-contractor owns the forms. If he isn't getting paid, or isn't under contract for additional work beyond what's already built, he takes them off the job. Simple.

I suspect there's going to be a stump for a very long time.

[vertex]

Drove by last night. The forms were off, as far as I can tell.

[HX_Guy]

Here are some new photos, including the elevator core. They are cranking over on Patriot's Square but on the other block, things are kind of quiet...all the forms seem to have disappeared and it all looked very clean.

http://nitnelav.com/DTNov52009/4.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTNov52009/2.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTNov52009/1.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTNov52009/3.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTNov52009/5.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTNov52009/6.jpg

[plinko]

Interesting and not looking good. My guess is that they will spray the rebar with some sort of epoxy coating to protect it from the elements and that's what you'll get. How pretty!

http://nitnelav.com/DTNov52009/4.jpg

[HX_Guy]

Can they really do that? Wouldn't they have to build some fence or something for aesthetics? Especially if they want people to visit the rest of the
project?

[plinko]

^My guess is that there will be some sort of fence around the tower footprint (maybe with some pretty graphics!) and that's about it.

The Bay/Adelaide stump (maybe 6-8 stories) sat in Toronto for 15 years, but the project took a whole block and just had an ugly fence.

In this case, since the rest of the block has functions, they'll have to make it a little prettier, but don't expect much.

[HX_Guy]

I got an email from someone at RED saying that they are trying to basically cut costs and be more efficient, which is why they could have got rid of the forms for now.

The weird thing though...he said that the west crane would most likely come down in the near future because they are figuring out a way to put up the hotel tower with just one tower crane (again for money reasons). That's fine and all...but shouldn't the east crane come down instead? The hotel tower is supposed to go up on the west end of the lot, not the east.

[gymratmanaz]

i would think as well. The west is needed for the tower. They could live on that one, but the east crane wouldn't really reach the hotel tower.

Oh, if we were kings of the forest!!!!!!!!

[HX_Guy]

Some more information...and it's good news...

• Both tower cranes are coming down from their current locations and one of them is being re-erected in the middle of the block. There is a huge hole that was left in the floorplate that me and gymratmanaz were wondering why it was there...and this seems to answer it.

• They are shooting for the hotel to be finished for the MLB All Star Game, which is in July 2011. The timeframe for the hotel is 14 months, so it needs to start rising no later then March 2010.

• They are viewing the hotel as a "must"...more of a matter of "when/how" and not "if" because of the tenants that have been attracted to the office tower in part because of the hotel. Makes sense to me.

• Expect at least 2 tenant announcement this month, probably at the State of Downtown speech on Nov. 17th. One of the tenants may be a replacement for AJs. Something that gymratmanaz found out...RED is in charge of all the Fresh and Easy locations Vallyewide and where they open their stores...seems like a perfect fit, no?

[PHX NATIVE 929]

:previous:

Not true. Phoenix Commercial Advisors has had the Fresh & Easy Tenant Rep assignment for some time now.

[HX_Guy]

:previous:

Not true. Phoenix Commercial Advisors has had the Fresh & Easy Tenant Rep assignment for some time now.

Oh...well...good job gymratmanaz for the bad info. :D

[PHX NATIVE 929]

That said, I would not rule out Fresh & Easy replacing AJ's at Cityscape despite the fact that Fresh & Easy is only hitting about 50% of their projected sales volumes thus far in Arizona. They've remained committed to making their mark in this marketplace. Time will tell if it's a wise decision....

[gymratmanaz]

I got the Fresh and Easy info from the architect of OCPE. I will kick his ass now!!! :)

[Tito714]

They were paving Central Ave. for the better part of today. I'll bring my camara along with me and snap a couple of shots tommorrow.

[Vicelord John]

I would love to have central avenue back. It's been a major pain in the ass for some time now. Fresh & Sleezy... meh. They can go arse fuck themselves... thats what british people say right? arse?

[Tito714]

When was the timeframe to open Central Ave. back up?

[gymratmanaz]

They have it covered central with black asphault tonight.

The crane is almost assembled on the north side, so the Urban Outfitters building frame can go up.

[HooverDam]

So I saw City Planner Carol Johnson at the Phoenix Visioning Plan thing tonight and asked her for an update on her findings about CityScapes screen/the mechanical box. Apparently since the box won't be seen from 'the most viewed angle' (the sidewalk) or some horse shit they were able to say it was screened well enough. I told her thats rather silly and they need to put more teeth into the zoning so its clear that the mechanical boxes must be entirely screened but I had a hard time gauging her response.

[plinko]

^That's something that should be changed in the city zoning ordinance RIGHT AWAY. Tempe doesn't allow such things, the screening has to be as tall or higher than the equipment. I think Scottsdale is the same way.

[Tfom]

What's the projected height on the hotel tower again?

[gymratmanaz]

hotel is either 12 or 9 stories. Someone said 9 but that might be 9 above the 3 of retail. Originally, they were saying 12. Just going to have to wait for clarification. Maybe we will get it November 17.

[Tito714]

Pics of Central Avenue
Looking North
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh296/otrebmuh1991/100_0720.jpg

Looking South
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh296/otrebmuh1991/100_0722.jpg

[gymratmanaz]

I wonder, will it be asphault temporarily in case they do decide to put a light rail track through?

[Tempe_Duck]

I wonder, will it be asphault temporarily in case they do decide to put a light rail track through?

Isn't it too late to reinforce the structure to support light rail? I thought construction was done below Central.

[neworleans]

why on earth would they put a light rail through there!

[HooverDam]

why on earth would they put a light rail through there!

Its a bunch of complicated crap having to do with getting the trains over to the state capitol.

[exit2lef]

why on earth would they put a light rail through there!

To link a westbound line going to the state capitol and to I-10 to the existing light rail line.

[gymratmanaz]

New steel columns are up on the Urban Outfitters building. Looking cool. I think it really is going to be a cool place, the PSP side of Cityscape!!!