Phoenix CityScape Thread

[gymratmanaz]

HX_Guy, I am honored to be in the same boat as you. You are my forum hero of all info. (No offense to anyone else)

[andrewkfromaz]

Some rights of way refer to utility easements and/or sidewalk easement, so the actual curb-to-curb width of Central, Jefferson, and 1st St. probably won't change. Abandon in this case is a term that doesn't make sense b/c the "ownership" of the land being relinquished by the city is confusing. RED technically owns the street here, but the city is giving over its rights to build anything on this strip of land.
My guess is that RED will then build its own sidewalk replete with trees, unique lighting, and other improvements instead of the city doing it. You'll notice that there are two widths on 1st St. This is an interesting holdover from olden times. The width being abandoned varies so that the edge of the city's ROW will be consistent.

When land is annexed into the city is when ROWs are created. Later, the city might require more ROW from a landowner when land is redeveloped (b/c it thinks it needs wider streets), or as in this case, the city relinquishes some of the ROW b/c it doesn't need as much width.

[HX_Guy]

How wide are the streets in the downtown area? 25.5' on 1st St would seem like almost the entire width of the street, no?

[combusean]

Abandonment is a process where the city basically surrenders the title to the public right of way to a private landowner. This has to go through a hearing because frequently utilities and such exist in the right of way that the applicant wants, so a process has to be agreed upon where the applicant will agree to move them or otherwise work out a deal with the affected utility companies. Streets, alleys, and sidewalks also fall under abandonment for similar reasons--if you are trying to abandon the alley behind your two parcels so you can better put a tower there, your neighbors need to have a say in case they depend on that alley being there so they can access their own property. To my knowledge, paving and most ROW improvements don't require an abandonment since the city doesn't surrender title to the land. After the area is abandoned, the strip of dirt becomes another taxable parcel the applicant owns. I'm sure they need to do the abandonment before the subdivision. Subdivision is misnamed here--they're likely going to be replatting a slew of individual parcels in the original Phoenix Townsite subdivision, along with the freshly abandoned rights of way into a brand new development. Blocks 77 and 23 are part of the Patriots square and Collier Center's subdivision, respectively, with 22 being the last one left from the original phoenix town site.

RED doesn't own the street, they own the parcels that are on the blocks. Despite in the aerials showing block 22 is a contiguous parking lot, there are still alleys left over from when there were buildings there, so there's that.

According to the 2006 aerial county assessor photos, which are of vastly improved quality compared with the 2007 photos, the area between the parcels on Blocks 22 and 23 is 110 feet wide encompassing all of 1st St. The curb-to-curb width is difficult to assess from here because of the jagged west edge of block 23, but it looks to be about 40' from the left edge of the street parking stall to the right side of the parking stall on the other side of the street. That they are asking for 40' total doesn't mean that there won't be any 1st St left. It's still another 25' from where the parcels on Block 22 end to the 1st st parking stalls, and about 50' from Block 23.

All in all, 1st St will probably still be a 2 lane road with street parking on both sides when they're done.

[gymratmanaz]

When I drove past CS yesterday, I did not see the big drilling piece of equipment. Does anyone know what this means?

[combusean]

^ It probably means that the caisson work to drill the pedestrian bridge's foundations is done.

[PHX31]

Talk to me like I am ten.

Go clean your room.

[andrewkfromaz]

EDIT: ^^^^ :jester: :jester: Great line!





All in all, 1st St will probably still be a 2 lane road with street parking on both sides when they're done.

So basically the land the city's giving up should all be outside the existing curb, meaning the street width won't actually change, just the ownership of the sidewalk.

[combusean]

I dont know where the curb is and can only estimate it from the aerial maps. I can go out there tonight with my rangefinder and figure some stuff out.

[gymratmanaz]

Good one PHX31.....but only after I make potty.

[HX_Guy]

I stopped by the Cityscape site today and a couple of things...

1. They were in the process of installing new a new perimeter fence around Block 22 (center block). The fence was identical to the one that surrounds the Central Park East lot, with the plastic (?) barricades and taller wrapping.

2. There was a sign up for the abandonment stuff we were talking about earlier, with a drawing showing that they are requesting. As was mentioned, it is probably for the use of parallel street parking, although on 1st St. 25.5' is pretty wide and I'm guessing they might do the conventional "pull in" parking spaces since the AJs is supposed to be right there.

http://nitnelav.com/CityScapeConstruction/CityscapeAbandon.jpg

[andrewkfromaz]

That picture clears up quite a few questions in my mind. Hope it does the same for you all as well...

[hi123]

Have they started real construction on the wachovia building yet?

[PhxPavilion]

Have they started real construction on the wachovia building yet?

Not even close, they're taking their time.

[AZ KID]

I really dont see what RED is waiting for. Maybe they are changing the designs due to the approval from the faa. But still its like creeping along. When i saw the wrap around psp I got extremely excited. But it still looks like nothing has changed. All i am asking is why wait, why take their time?

[tempedude]

I really dont see what RED is waiting for. Maybe they are changing the designs due to the approval from the faa. But still its like creeping along. When i saw the wrap around psp I got extremely excited. But it still looks like nothing has changed. All i am asking is why wait, why take their time?

Probably making sure all the details are ironed out. This project is massive and its not moving along as fast as most of us want. Have patience though, when this thing gets rolling the dirt will be flying. I have a feeling that we'll be seeing something happening very soon.

[AZ KID]

well i sure as hell hope your right!!!

[gymratmanaz]

I wonder when they might make an updated announcement of any changes or a final plan....if there is such a thing as a final plan.

[Edifice]

Wachovia reported huge losses today. Not exactly the kind of news that bodes well for new buildings being built. :(

[sundevilgrad]

Wachovia reported huge losses today. Not exactly the kind of news that bodes well for new buildings being built. :(

Good thing they're not building it.

[tempedude]

^ The short answer to you question of will the economy and Wachovia posting big losses kill CitySpape is ..... probably not.

I am under the impression that the funding is already in place, plus CityScape is funded from multiple sources. Wachovia is not building any of the buildings themselves far as I know, they will simply be a primary tenant in one of the office towers.

I am sure someone else can give a better answer with a lot more detail, and probably point out where I am wrong....but overall I think I am fairly correct

[Edifice]

^ The short answer to you question of will the economy and Wachovia posting big losses kill CitySpape is ..... probably not.

I am under the impression that the funding is already in place, plus CityScape is funded from multiple sources. Wachovia is not building any of the buildings themselves far as I know, they will simply be a primary tenant in one of the office towers.

I am sure someone else can give a better answer with a lot more detail, and probably point out where I am wrong....but overall I think I am fairly correct

Right, but as the primary tenant, they will have a lot of influence over if and when it gets built. I am not informed enough to understand the actual impact but it does give me pause.

[PhxSprawler]

Wachovia is centralizing some resources in Cityscape from other areas, and they have not announced any major layoffs recently to make us worry about a change of plans. Their recent decrease in profits, like other banks, are due to write-downs. This is the "bathtub" effect. They are accounting for their losses while the market is already down. If they know they are going to have a weak quarter, they might as well lose big. Unless the site was planned solely for the support of the investment and mortgage side of the business, there is little risk of them pulling out of any lease agreements any time soon. If they do pull out, it is a sign of a much bigger problem than the potential loss of Cityscape.

[Phxbyrd211]

This would be a good reason for Cityscape to combine the hotel and office projects to diversify the first tower and thus the most risky part of the project. In three years things will look good to build a ton of luxury condos but waiting to do anything until then will kill the project also. Build the retail and double the apartments now and then build the office/hotel tower as soon as the design is ready. Under the circumstances, Wachovia might enjoy an extra 6-8 months before they have to centralize their operations.

[combusean]

I would rather the condos be open at a sane/fire sale price than to delay the project any further. The office portion is solid, the hotel portion is good and that's 1.5 towers right there. Phoenix isn't overbuilt like Miami or even Scottsdale or Tempe to where we could get by without needing the condominium component. Market schmarket, we needed the units open yesterday, and we'll need them more later.

The only thing that I would recommend they do is simply build the condos in the "510 foot" tower as apartments and convert them later. Or do both--lease or sell. There are certainly not enough developments doing that around here, at least purposely.

[Phxbyrd211]

what I'm saying is whatever they planned to do in apartments, double it! Build the office building with the hotel on top and then start presales of the condos just as the market is starting to get hot again. They need to start the retail construction NOW though!

[AZ KID]

I agree Phxbyrd. Retail does need to start now. Or at least start demolishing psp. I don't think that anyone likes to see it still standing three weeks after being all wrapped up.

[combusean]

It could be that the office tower is steel construction like 1CPE so it wouldn't really be prudent to mix it with the hotel component without some crafty engineering work to meet the plenum space the office tenant demands. On its own, the office tower may rise very quickly. I think if you attempt to mix the two you're going to delay the project further.

In the worst case scenario as the deal plays out today, we're getting blocks 22 and 77 done. Leaving another pad on Block 22 for better market conditions is something we have seen too many times before. Two blocks east, there's still no hotel on the Collier Center.

[AZ KID]

Has any prep work been done? As of now it doesnt look like any tower will be rising for quite some time.

[Phxbyrd211]

I was providing for an additional 6-8 months delay for the office/hotel tower and that possibly Wachovia wouldn't mind because they could delay the expense of moving during their down period.

[AZ KID]

Has anyone been to the site recently? I remember someone saying that we will be able to see a difference in three to four weeks at patriots square. That was said a little more than four weeks ago. I hope that means demo will start fairly soon...

[HX_Guy]

Demolition of Patriot's Park won't start until early summer.

[Azndragon837]

^Where did you find that info? And I thought they were going to tear down the park on the 7th of December, which would have been a lovely birthday present for me. Grrrrrrr.

Man, I sure missed out on a lot of news from December and January! I had to catch-up on news, and it appears I missed a lot...especially things about being age 10 and going potty.

A 510' iconic tower would be icing on the cake for the development. It will give the development local and national exposure with postcards, skyline shots during televised events, print and internet advertising, and even constant exposure locally on our news stations (where most of them have our skyline that serves as a photo background behind the news desk).

-Andrew

[Azndragon837]

Please correct me if I am wrong (I have been away from this forum for too long), but is this rendering of CityScape a new one? The office and condo towers look so lovely and tall. Makes me smile.

http://cityscape.waittdesign.com/post/sections/project_vision/images/CityScape%20Exterior%20View%2001.jpg
Courtesy of downtownphxrising.org

-Andrew

[PhxPavilion]

Those were the original final renderings, before they scaled back.

[kevininlb]

Sounds a lot like Tesco's Fresh & Easy - small and prepared food (probably not a bad idea for downtown, but it sounds like DT still won't have a supermarket-supermarket).

Retail corridor: Union Hills AJ’s to go 'petite’
Comments 0| Recommend 0
David Woodfill, Tribune
AJ’s Fine Foods, a gourmet grocery chain owned by Bashas’, is headed for the southeast corner of Pima Road and Union Hills Drive near Scottsdale’s upscale DC Ranch.

But this isn’t any ordinary AJ’s.

Bashas’ said the store will be significantly smaller than other AJ’s locations, which typically encompass up to 30,000 square feet.

It will be similar in size to the 18,000-square-foot AJ’s that opened in December at Alma School and Chandler Heights roads in Chandler.

Bashas’ spokeswoman Alison Bendler said the company has been informally referring to the new stores as AJ’s Petite.

That name has caught on with the media, but Bendler said the new stores don’t represent a new direction for AJ’s, nor is it a new brand.

The store will focus on ready-to-eat meals, bakery goods, meats, seafood and produce, the company said.

Another scaled-down AJ’s is in the works for the CityScape development in downtown Phoenix. That store could be on two levels, the company said. The store would open in fall 2009.

[CANUC]

I noticed yesterday that new, taller fencing has been erected around the Cityscape sight. I know a few pages back there were links to newly issued permits. I believe they were for some type of right of way on the city streets which would consume an entire lane of traffic. I’m not sure if they are directly connected with the new fencing but the new fence is indeed pushed out onto the street and takes up and entire lane of traffic. Hopefully a sign that serious work is about to begin.

[gymratmanaz]

Yes, we could use a little juice on this project to discuss!!!

[vertex]

Another scaled-down AJ’s is in the works for the CityScape development in downtown Phoenix. That store could be on two levels, the company said. The store would open in fall 2009.

I don't mind, I'll still take it. Could be useful, not only for downtown residents, but also for nearby workers, hotel guests and convention-goers.

Interesting to note that Bashas' still has faith in Cityscape opening in 18 months.

[gymratmanaz]

IT'S HAPPENING!!!! I just got done talking to a workman at Cityscape. Yes I said workman AT Cityscape. They just brought back the deep drilling rig. He said they are going to now drill down about 60ft and then cement in the first foundation pole. They will then dig around it to open up the underground parking area. He said the delay was financing, regulations, planning for city electric and other underground items, and REDESIGN. He had no idea if the plan is higher. He said also, they will soon dig up the still burried vault of the original Wells Fargo Bank. In addition, he said in the next week or so, they plan on starting two shifts of digging, day and night.

Do I win a prize for investigative reporting and going to the source? I actually went inside the fencing a little to talk to this guy too.

[HX_Guy]

Nice, good to hear! Were there a few workers on site or just this guy?

[gymratmanaz]

I counted at least 8 workers actually working and doing noticable tasks. Steam shovel digging out a lot of dirt, drill being loaded, new fencing being braced...with this forward movement, I would assume that there must have been a new final design decision made. Wonder if they did and when we might hear something. This is usually your area HX_Guy.

[tempedude]

right on!!! :cool:

Nice bloodhound work there gymratmanaz. Told ya that the dirt was going to be flying soon at CityScape. :D

Thanks for the info and bit of good news.

[gymratmanaz]

I live to serve, Tempedude........ The real coup will go to whomever finds a new height redesign.

[HX_Guy]

I went through a few documents I digged up on the County Recorder's website, a lot of it is just repeating practically the same things over and over. A couple things I pulled out quickly where a recent general site plan, which really isn't anything we havn't seen before but it does have some heights, and also the minimum requirements that RED must do in order to receive their money from the City. Unfortunately, the condo/hotel tower on Block 22 does not seem to be required at all.

http://recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocdata/GetRecDataDetail.aspx?rec=20071183852

General site plan:



http://nitnelav.com/CityScapeConstruction/Cityscapeplan1.jpg
http://nitnelav.com/CityScapeConstruction/Cityscapeplan2.jpg

The rest of it all...

http://recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocdata/GetRecDataDetail.aspx?rec=20071242620

http://recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocdata/GetRecDataDetail.aspx?rec=20071242621

http://recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocdata/GetRecDataDetail.aspx?rec=20071242622

http://recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocdata/GetRecDataDetail.aspx?rec=20071242623

http://recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocdata/GetRecDataDetail.aspx?rec=20071242625

http://recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocdata/GetRecDataDetail.aspx?rec=20071242626

The final one is a 571 pg agreement with the City. It makes your head hurt all the mumbo jumbo that is in this thing...

http://recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocdata/GetRecDataDetail.aspx?rec=20070755631

These last two deal with Keybank National Associations, I'm not sure if it has to do with financing or...

http://recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocdata/GetRecDataDetail.aspx?rec=20071292017

http://recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocdata/GetRecDataDetail.aspx?rec=20071292018

[gymratmanaz]

My head hurts.......again, talk to me like I am ten!

[loftlovr]

Damn it boy,
You ain't getting any desert until you finish your green beans!
There are kids in Somolia who would kill for those green beans!

[HX_Guy]

Some information related to the timing of the project...

• The start of construction shall occur on or before February 15th, 2008.
• Completion of construction of the Minimum Improvements shall occur on or before August 15th, 2010.
• Start of construction shall mean all necessary demolition and grading permits have been received and that development activity to such permits has begun.

As for Minimum Improvements...

Block 22 and 77:

• A minimum of 184,00 ft of aggragate gross building area intended for retail/restaurant on blocks 22 and 77
• A 550,000 sq ft mixed-use tower on Block 22 for office, retail, or other uses
• Redevelopment of Patriot's Park
• Other plaza and open space on Blocks 22 and 23
• Streetscape improvements
• A below grade parking structure on Block 22 with approx. 1300 spaces
• Repairs and upgrades to Patriots Garage


Block 23

• A high-rise tower on Block 23 with approx. 500 residential units and 150 hotel rooms
• A minimum of 36,000 sq ft of aggregate gross building area intended for retail/restaurant
• Streetscape improvements
• A below-grade parking structure with approx 1000 spaces


They split up the requirements for Block 22/77 and Block 23 which means they split up the money. That's not a good thing as it could lead to just block 22/77 being developed and that's it...and the developer forgoing the "reward" of Block 23. With the way it was initially worded, they had to complete everything on all three blocks to get the lump sum. They did however add the 550,000 sq ft tower (which will become Wachovia) to the minimum requirements but there are zero requirements for residential on Block 22 or 77.

[shawneriksmith]

They did however add the 550,000 sq ft tower (which will become Wachovia) to the minimum requirements but there are zero requirements for residential on Block 22 or 77.

It's sad that the residential tower is being moved to the bottom of the priority list but I think that once the Wachovia tower and OCPE gets built that there will be some demand for that residential tower (also, light rail will be done by then as well). But, the streetscape/plaza/retail/restaurant improvements are really what's needed now to relieve some of the stigma of downtown Phoenix and create a more inviting environment (and to get Jackson Street development going).

[plinko]

They split up the requirements for Block 22/77 and Block 23 which means they split up the money. That's not a good thing as it could lead to just block 22/77 being developed and that's it...and the developer forgoing the "reward" of Block 23. With the way it was initially worded, they had to complete everything on all three blocks to get the lump sum. They did however add the 550,000 sq ft tower (which will become Wachovia) to the minimum requirements but there are zero requirements for residential on Block 22 or 77.

I am Jack's complete lack of suprise and continual sense of disappointment. :D

I have a real hard time getting so excited about a project that so resembles all of the promises and delusions of granduer that came with the Arizona Center, Collier Center, etc...meh...

...what might have been...

Arizona Center...East Coast density plan but Phoenix level of thinking (let's have it all face AWAY from the street!) (circa 1986)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/Phoenix/phx020-1.jpg


Collier Center...master planned by the Jerde Partnership...something as exciting as Universal Citywalk could be coming downtown! (circa 1997)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/Phoenix/phx150.jpg

...and sadly this time the City gave up its datum lot and arguably the BEST location for a public space and/or transit hub in the city...

[AZ KID]

A LOT of work has already been done.... heres a couple of pics of the drilling thing. Sorry i couldnt show the amount of digging that has been done....

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8df07b3127cceb430a9d4537000000026101BatnDNm4Y4

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8df07b3127cceb430a9ce536a00000026101BatnDNm4Y4

[gymratmanaz]

forward movement!!!!!!!

[hi123]

Cool!

[loftlovr]

I am Jack's complete lack of suprise and continual sense of disappointment. :D

I have a real hard time getting so excited about a project that so resembles all of the promises and delusions of granduer that came with the Arizona Center, Collier Center, etc...meh...

...what might have been....

:haha:

Thanks for posting that advertisement and the Colliers plan.
A great remider that we can not always believe everything we see for these master Phx developments.

Very interesting....
Who to blame? The City for being so naive?
The developer for short changing?
Or the market situations for lack of demand?

I think Cityscape will still trump AZ Center and Colliers, even with the scaled down plan....
I do not blame RED for holding out on residential tower.

[AZ KID]

The residential tower has not been ruled out at all. All it says is that to get the money from the city it is not required to build a residential tower. I still feel it is very likely a residential tower will be done.

[sundevilgrad]

I am Jack's complete lack of suprise and continual sense of disappointment. :D


I am the all-singing, all-dancing crap of this world.... I am the toxic waste by-product of God's creation.

[combusean]

I am Jack's complete lack of suprise and continual sense of disappointment. :D

I have a real hard time getting so excited about a project that so resembles all of the promises and delusions of granduer that came with the Arizona Center, Collier Center, etc...meh...

...what might have been...

Arizona Center...East Coast density plan but Phoenix level of thinking (let's have it all face AWAY from the street!) (circa 1986)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/Phoenix/phx020-1.jpg

You know, it's conceivable a plan of that density could have made the Arizona Center work.

[PhxPavilion]

http://hispanic.cc/the_phoenix,_arizona_downtown_con_instant_gratification.htm

[HooverDam]

http://hispanic.cc/the_phoenix,_arizona_downtown_con_instant_gratification.htm

WOW. I read that whole thing, amazingly stupid.

[loftlovr]

Read it, am pissed.
Whatever! :hell:

[PhxPavilion]

Not exactly surprising if it gets ridiculed here but I agree with some of the points it raises, depressing they may be.

[combusean]

Ow. What an idiot. Not only was it poorly written, it's wrong on so many points.

[gymratmanaz]

Now I know what the word "Diatribe" means.

[vertex]

Grammar aside, I think he makes some really good points about lost opportunities, and he does have a pretty good wit to boot. Regarding the lost chance to develop the Cathedral property downtown, he wrote:

To develop this key parcel, Bishop O'Brien gave the assignment to the once prima donna of the Diocese: Monsieur Dale Fushek whose only development experience was limited to developing a youth movement. The Diocesan parcel abutting the civic center on the north side would have had any savvy developer drooling at the possibly of maximizing the site with a high density multi use convention hotel, class A office space and retail structure. Even high rise condominiums would have worked in the tower. Directly behind Saint Mary's Cathedral is where Saint Mary's High School once was located and had it been restored to historical architectural significance, the restored school could have provided class A office space to chancery staff.

I almost coughed coffee out of my nose when I read that line. :haha:

[sundevilgrad]

You know, it's conceivable a plan of that density could have made the Arizona Center work.

I wonder why there wasn't any good plans to develop the remaining high-rise pads left on the AZ Center property during this last boom... Did they want to much for the land? The 3rd St. and Van Buren sight would be great for a 30-40 story tower...

[HX_Guy]

January 26th

http://www.nitnelav.com/DTJan262008/2.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/DTJan262008/3.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/DTJan262008/4.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/DTJan262008/5.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/DTJan262008/6.jpg

Also, from http://impactdetailingaz.com/current-jobs.html ...

"Currently on the drawing board we are looking forward to working
again with Suntec Concrete on the upcoming Cityscape project.
This Project sports two high rise towers, one office tower and one
a residential tower. The residential tower will reach 46-stories high
making it the tallest building in the city. We have provided Crane
Radius and Truss Table Layout drawings for the planning stages
and we look forward to providing all of the detailing needs for this
land mark project in 2008."

[gymratmanaz]

I assume that is an old quote about the 46 story residential building??? OR????????

[FireMedic]

Great News, Phoenix gets a new highest building soon :notacrook:

[gymratmanaz]

Is that a new plan or an old statement? I hope new!!!!!!!

[JAHOPL]

"Monsieur Dale Fushek"

I'm laughing too, maybe for a different reason. Monsigneur Dale is Polish, not French.:haha:

Jeff, St. Timothy's parishioner

I'm also hoping 46 stories is the latest plan.

[AZ KID]

That would be AMAZING!!!!!!!!!

[HX_Guy]

Now we're starting to get somewhere...

Permit# PHAS-0705627-02 Issue Date 2/1/08 Expires 1/31/09
Permit Description CITYSCAPE - LOT 22 NORTH TOWER


Description/Scope of Work: COMMERCIAL NEW
SCOPE OF WORK: BLDG PLMB MECH ELEC

DESCRIPTION OF WORK: STRUCTURAL FRAME ONLY FOR SUPERSTRUCTURE OF OFFICE BUILDING 27 STORIES. BELOW GRAD STRUCTURE UNDER SEPARATE PERMIT.

[gymratmanaz]

27 stories??????? HX_Guy explain....what happened to the height>?

[HX_Guy]

27 stories was the original height of the Wachovia office tower. This is the 375' tower, not the 510'. The taller one is the one that we are waiting to see what happens.

[gymratmanaz]

I thought so, but you scared me....So do you know the answer to the dibbing at the civic center park? Also, what will that middle building be?...I know, wrong thread....but while I have you. LOL

[HX_Guy]

I'm not sure really.

[gymratmanaz]

I'm going downtown tomorrow to check things out....fun to see progress!!!!!

[PhxPavilion]

Still not much new, mostly drilling and digging.

[HX_Guy]

Hunt Construction Group has their signs up around the site...that's new, I guess. :D

[HX_Guy]

With things sort of slow at Cityscape lately (although it's not so slow...dirt is moving and it appears that major construction will start any day) I thought I'd put up the pics that were released back in October...

http://nitnelav.com/CityScapeConstruction/CityScapeOct22/4.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/CityScapeConstruction/CityScapeOct22/5.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/CityScapeConstruction/CityScapeOct22/6.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/CityScapeConstruction/CityScapeOct22/7.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/CityScapeConstruction/CityScapeOct22/8.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/CityScapeConstruction/CityScapeOct22/10.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/CityScapeConstruction/CityScapeOct22/9.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/CityScapeConstruction/CityScapeOct22/13.jpg

[DracoCaifan]

Cool!! I just hope the new tallest really happens!!

[PHX NATIVE 929]

I have zero inside info on the likelihood of these discussions amounting to anything real, but I do know that RED is at least attempting talks with Urban Outfitters and Anthropologie.

[HX_Guy]

Nice, some retail! :)

Other news...it's a "permit frenzy" today over at the DSD. These are actual work permits, not just the reviews we usually see. If major excavation isn't already happening, it looks like it will start very very soon.

Permit# CGD-T468461 Issue Date Expires 2/4/10
Permit Description MASS EXCAVATION GRADING FOR BLK 22
Project 06-5309 CITYSCAPE

Description/Scope of Work: GRADING & DRAINAGE

DESCRIPTION OF WORK: Grading & Drainage Improvements per Approved Plan.
Cut 248,750+cy permit for mass excavation of blk 22 only. Final grading plan to be submitted later for pad elevations and ADA grades.

Permit# CHA-T468462 Issue Date Expires 2/4/10
Permit Description HAUL PLAN
Project 06-5309 CITYSCAPE

Description/Scope of Work: HAUL ROUTE

DESCRIPTION OF WORK:

ANY HAUL OVER 1,000 CUBIC YARDS FROM OR TO THIS PROJECT SITE MUST HAVE A HAUL PLAN SUBMITTED TO THE DSD CIVIL INSPECTOR BEFORE ANY HAUL OPERATIONS CAN BEGIN.

CUBIC YARDS....248,750


Permit# CSW-T468460 Issue Date Expires 2/4/10
Permit Description STORM WATER MANAGEMENT
Project 06-5309 CITYSCAPE

Description/Scope of Work: STORM WATER MANAGEMENT

DESCRIPTION OF WORK: Storm Water Management Improvements per Approved Plan.

[gymratmanaz]

Sounds like those dual shifts will begin soon, night and day shifts for digging and hauling dirt......HOW TALL FOR TOWER #2?????????!!!!!! AHHH!!!!!!

[andrewkfromaz]

I'm betting no gym, and almost certainly no video store. An Apple store would be cool, but I don't see it happening. Apple would look for an NE Phx location, is my guess. As for clothing, I'd say maybe an Urban Outfitters, less probably Abercrombie, and no way AE. I thought we decided Borders was pretty much a done deal? I'm guessing Borders. I wouldn't be shocked to hear RA Sushi announced, but I'd rather see Blue Wasabi or maybe a tapas concept... I think no way do we see anything really upscale (Sapporo) at this place, at least not in these phases. They've already pretty much announced PF Chang's as an "anchor," I don't think they'll have anything more expensive until the PF Chang's demonstrates viability in downtown. Maybe a hotel steakhouse or other restaurant concept will be announced further down the line as the hotel plans gel, but I don't see more upscale fancy dining being announced until more residents start to move in. I don't think RED is the kind of company that will pull out any huge incredible shops today. If there are any places that make us go "Wow, that's really cool that they got ________ to come downtown!" it'll be b/c the site is successful, not b/c of any major strides RED makes. I think it's too early for retailers/restaurateurs to commit based on the overall success of Cityscape as retail center.

Did someone say RED was talking to Urban Outfitters? I just have to say, my ability to predict retail tenants from a distance is pretty awesome. I may have a new calling.
"Retail analyst?" "Retail mix analyst?" Retail location expert?" Something along those lines.

[HX_Guy]

Lots of digging and such going on at the site today. Also, it looks like they are about ready to put up billboard renderings of the project at the site, although they are the same we have seen before and are not the final product.

http://nitnelav.com/DTFeb52008/1.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTFeb52008/2.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTFeb52008/3.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTFeb52008/4.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTFeb52008/5.jpg

[HooverDam]

although they are the same we have seen before and are not the final product.

I'm confused, was there some mentioning of different renderings to come? I figured what we had seen was more or less the final product.

[HX_Guy]

Not major changes, probably won't see new renderings, but the design of the condo/hotel tower have not been finalized and there will be changes in the height and floorplate size.

[oliveurban]

Great to see.

[gymratmanaz]

THIS IS FOR PHX-31

Possible unconfirmed bad news about Cityscape. My friend who designed OCPE said he doubted the residential tower would be built now. They may plan it, but due to the economy, he doubts they will build it now. He said he had no factual info from anyone on the project and that it was just his opinion as someone in the biz......

Anyone have any info or apposing thoughts on this? PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!

[andrewkfromaz]

MUCH BETTER! See, doesn't it just look better?

[plinko]

Settle down Beavis!

Doesn't RED have to build the residential units in the hotel tower as part of their agreement for city funds? I'm sure somebody on the forum knows. Despite the marketplace, they likely wouldn't walk away from the amounts of subsidies they are getting. Then again, that doesn't mean that they won't scale the tower down by a number of floors.

[HX_Guy]

I wish they did have to, but apparently they dont...

Minimum Improvements...

Block 22 and 77 (RED Development):

• A minimum of 184,00 ft of aggragate gross building area intended for retail/restaurant on blocks 22 and 77
• A 550,000 sq ft mixed-use tower on Block 22 for office, retail, or other uses
• Redevelopment of Patriot's Park
• Other plaza and open space on Blocks 22 and 23
• Streetscape improvements
• A below grade parking structure on Block 22 with approx. 1300 spaces
• Repairs and upgrades to Patriots Garage


Block 23 (Barron Collier)

• A high-rise tower on Block 23 with approx. 500 residential units and 150 hotel rooms
• A minimum of 36,000 sq ft of aggregate gross building area intended for retail/restaurant
• Streetscape improvements
• A below-grade parking structure with approx 1000 spaces


They split up the requirements for Block 22/77 and Block 23 which means they split up the money. That's not a good thing as it could lead to just block 22/77 being developed and that's it...and the developer forgoing the "reward" of Block 23. With the way it was initially worded, they had to complete everything on all three blocks to get the lump sum. They did however add the 550,000 sq ft tower (which will become Wachovia) to the minimum requirements but there are zero requirements for residential on Block 22 or 77.

[gymratmanaz]

Damn!!!

[plinko]

So basically at a minimum there would be three retail blocks and an office tower on the middle block for Wachovia and the public park space (as well as underground parking). Wow...how underwhelming!

If they have to build the underground parking, they at least have to build in the foundations for the towers...

Collier Center...Part DUH.

[HX_Guy]

Well, if you assume both will do their minimums, there would be two totals towers at a minimum, the Wachovia tower and a residential tower on Block 23.

However, nothing is going on with Block 23 and I don't see anything going on for a while. Imagine that there is still a building there that would need to be demolished, plus the parking lot...and I'm sure they will have to go through the whole histroic excavation that Block 22 had to go through. Basically, Block 23 is probably a couple years away, if it happens. Since they split up the blocks and therefore the incentive money, it may not happen at all...RED doesn't care either way I don't think, it doesn't really affect them.

So...at a minimum, we are getting two blocks of retail, an office tower on the middle block, a public park space, and the underground parking.

[Hysonk]

Based on this posting on their site from January, I can't see how they can't be moving forward with the residential tower if it contains the Kimpton. Add to that the fact that the city is pushing for more downtown hotels, I would think the city would try and strong-arm them or at the very least plead their case. NOTE: Does anyone know what the last two sentences mean? It seems to be a very separate thought and a different project but Grand only goes to 7th Ave. not 1st Street? What the...?!

From Cityscapes website

1/1/2008
CityScape Project Underway In Downtown Phoenix

From Reed Construction Data/ACP

Phoenix — Ground was broken in late October for CityScape, a $900-million, 2.5-million-square-foot mixed use project of RED Development (Scottsdale and Kansas City) and CDK Partners that will ultimately cover three city blocks in downtown Phoenix, extending from First Avenue to Second Street and from Washington Street to Jefferson Street. The first phase, on the center block, will open in November 2009, with construction of subsequent phases continuing through 2011. Financial services firm Wachovia Corp. will be the anchor tenant in the 600,000-square-foot CityScape office tower, while Kimpton Hotels & Restaurants of San Francisco will build a 250-room luxury boutique Hotel Palomar as part of the project. Other project tenants include AJ's Fine Foods, Twelve Hotels & Residences (with a 150-room hotel in a later phase of the project) and P.F. Chang's China Bistro. The residential component of the first phase will include about 1,200 residential units, 65 rental apartments and 150 condominiums. Hunt Construction is general contractor for the project's initial phase. Demolition of the parking garage at Grand Avenue and First Street will commence in February 2008 following remedial site work. Transformation of the existing County Mall to a new, 16-acre civic park will begin next fall.

[Hysonk]

Based on this posting on their site from January, I can't see how they can't be moving forward with the residential tower if it contains the Kimpton. Add to that the fact that the city is pushing for more downtown hotels, I would think the city would try and strong-arm them or at the very least plead their case. NOTE: Does anyone know what the last two sentences mean? It seems to be a very separate thought and a different project but Grand only goes to 7th Ave. not 1st Street? What the...?!

From Cityscapes website

1/1/2008
CityScape Project Underway In Downtown Phoenix

From Reed Construction Data/ACP

Phoenix — Ground was broken in late October for CityScape, a $900-million, 2.5-million-square-foot mixed use project of RED Development (Scottsdale and Kansas City) and CDK Partners that will ultimately cover three city blocks in downtown Phoenix, extending from First Avenue to Second Street and from Washington Street to Jefferson Street. The first phase, on the center block, will open in November 2009, with construction of subsequent phases continuing through 2011. Financial services firm Wachovia Corp. will be the anchor tenant in the 600,000-square-foot CityScape office tower, while Kimpton Hotels & Restaurants of San Francisco will build a 250-room luxury boutique Hotel Palomar as part of the project. Other project tenants include AJ's Fine Foods, Twelve Hotels & Residences (with a 150-room hotel in a later phase of the project) and P.F. Chang's China Bistro. The residential component of the first phase will include about 1,200 residential units, 65 rental apartments and 150 condominiums. Hunt Construction is general contractor for the project's initial phase. Demolition of the parking garage at Grand Avenue and First Street will commence in February 2008 following remedial site work. Transformation of the existing County Mall to a new, 16-acre civic park will begin next fall.

[plinko]

^Awesome! And that old City office building on Block 23 sits and sits. Isn't there a little mexican restaurant on that block too (along with a large bus stop)? I honestly can't remember.

I'm curious about the Hotel Palomar agreement. I'm sure its time sensitive and with a substantial number of termination options. I'll bet right now the developer and architect are trying to figure out if they can build just the hotel without the residential units on top (or if there is some other way economically to build some of the units.

If Phoenix ends up with the minimum development from RED and nothing from Collier due to market conditions, then this project borders on an unmitigated disaster. Successful downtown retail doesn't work (aside from sporting events) unless people are there all the time. And the loss of true public space...ack...

I realize my posts in this thread fall on the negative side, I just haven't seen anything about this project from the very beginning that really excites me or has led me to believe that it will be any different from Arizona Center or Collier. Just another mixed use project with potential.

[HX_Guy]

I'm with you on this one Plinko, without the residential component of this, I don't see how much of the retail can fully succeed. What are we going to end up with, the first PF Chang's and AJs that closes at 5:00 PM?