Phoenix CityScape Thread [Archive] - Page 30

glynnjamin

Apr 15, 2009, 6:09 PM

^God I hate that they designed it with the tallest buildings on the east side. How stupid. Swapping the PSP block with the JC Penny's block would have created shade in the summer over the entire complex and actually made it walkable. Now, we are going to get dinky little Colliers Center 2 on PSP block, maybe two medium towers on the parkinglot block, and nothing on the JC Penny's block. Brilliant.

HooverDam

Apr 15, 2009, 6:31 PM

^Well they couldnt build anything very big on the PSP block because of the old parking garage thats under there it can only support so much weight.

renone

Apr 15, 2009, 6:32 PM

I have to take a new picture every time - No webcam. I'll try to post more as the progress continues. I can't really see anything new on building contsruction because I am on a lower floor and its too tall now. But I will put new PSP photos up as it progresses.

Leo the Dog

Apr 15, 2009, 6:43 PM

Too bad that 1/3 of that rendering will never happen, or at least in the near future. (And this is an optimistic view, being that Phase II will be constructed.) That rendering looks great though, wish it was all being constructed all at once.

Leo the Dog

Apr 15, 2009, 6:47 PM

Slowly, the PSP is coming down....

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3619/3445091684_af854df383_b.jpg

Whoever designed PSP was crazy. Just look at all of the hardscaping. How could one enjoy this "park". I remember just using it to cut through the block, I never once went there to hang out and enjoy the DT setting. Thank god it will soon be a memory.

gymratmanaz

Apr 15, 2009, 7:27 PM

Renone - Thanks for being our eyes.

renone

Apr 16, 2009, 5:43 PM

A couple of observations this morning:

1. They are removing the dirt ramp. Its pretty impressive to watch the massive backhoes (i think) move up the ramp while cleaning up the dirt behind them.

2. They dug two big holes in the floor just to the west of the current tower. They would be in the middle of where Central used to be. They are putting rebar in the holes - I assume this is the base of crane 2. Just a guess.

3. The demo on PSP is taking forever. All of those bricks mean slow progress.

gymratmanaz

Apr 16, 2009, 5:51 PM

Sure wish we could see inside the whole. Thanks for the update renone! Hope it is for the crane. The security guard said that the crane would come when the ramp was removed......crossing fingers anyone?

renone

Apr 16, 2009, 5:51 PM

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3397/3448209672_eb77cb0321_b.jpg

HX_Guy

Apr 16, 2009, 5:54 PM

2. They dug two big holes in the floor just to the west of the current tower. They would be in the middle of where Central used to be. They are putting rebar in the holes - I assume this is the base of crane 2. Just a guess.

That's the shit I'm talking about right there! :D

Now...they could be for the pedestrian bridge as well, if they are directly west of the current building going up. I would expect the tower crane to be SW of the current building.

gymratmanaz

Apr 16, 2009, 8:04 PM

RENONE.....I ask, and you come through!!!!! You rock!!!

Now get a picture from inside the hole looking up. I dare you. :)

Vicelord John

Apr 16, 2009, 8:41 PM

so wait... you are under the impression the crane will be in the middle of central avenue?

No.

They are going to put central avenue back long before a crane could be taken down.

HX_Guy

Apr 17, 2009, 7:34 AM

They seem to have started work on the rest of the parking garage, at least to the west of the current tower under construction.

There is also a dug out area directly north which may be for a tower crane. I seem to remember seeing a similar dug out area for other tower cranes that have gone up. The only problem is that it would be right on Central Ave...but then again, Central Ave is to be closed off through 2010 so it may very well be.

http://nitnelav.com/cityscape041609/1.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/cityscape041609/2.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/cityscape041609/3.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/cityscape041609/4.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/cityscape041609/5.jpg

HX_Guy

Apr 17, 2009, 3:29 PM

A few more shots from yesterday...

You can just barely see the tower crane peeking above the roof line of 215 McKinley coming south on 3rd St. It's going to be a great gap filler.
http://nitnelav.com/cityscape041609/6.jpg

Should look good here too...
http://nitnelav.com/cityscape041609/7.jpg

Another shot of the potential crane spot?
http://nitnelav.com/cityscape041609/8.jpg

renone

Apr 17, 2009, 3:34 PM

This crane is up today over the holes that were dug yesterday and photograpghed above. Not sure what its purpose is yet.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3327/3450516584_b6f1b6f552_b.jpg

gymratmanaz

Apr 17, 2009, 4:16 PM

I am betting on the crane being installed there. Looks the same to me as the type of hole they dug when they put the first crane in.

LAFINDOG

Apr 17, 2009, 4:31 PM

Sonoran_Dweller

Apr 17, 2009, 4:44 PM

Talking to someone closely related to the project...they told me that they are trying to get RED to change Tower 2 to be 100% hotel space. That way you wouldn't have to worry about a tenant (which would be difficult to get and the banks might not give you funding...But they would be more willing to give for a hotel). Also this person said that they are trying to get the edifice to have a smaller footprint, while raising the height at the same time.

This is just from word-of-mouth and may not be happening. There has been so many things said we really don't know what to believe. So this is just what I heard, nothing more.

HX_Guy

Apr 17, 2009, 4:55 PM

They are going to be setting 2 tower cranes. They are needed to finish the parking garage which is required for the deal with the city. Word is the second tower is going to be an office (10-12 floors) over the hotel (10-12 floors). As always, they are trying to get a financing package sold. This might get done if they can find a sole tennant for the office portion of the second tower. That's a big "if".

So two more additional tower cranes...for a total of 3 on the side? That would be cool! :D

What's the word if they can't do either office or condos? Will they completely abandon Tower #2...or will they go forward with a 10-12 story hotel? The hotel seems to be a big selling point and one of the main reasons some of the tenants have signed on so I'm not sure what would happen if the hotel were not to happen.

AZ KID

Apr 17, 2009, 5:13 PM

I honestly love the idea of an entire hotel building. Of course I would prefer the original plan of hotel and lots of condos but that seems more and more unlikely.

gymratmanaz

Apr 19, 2009, 1:44 AM

bwonger06

Apr 19, 2009, 1:47 AM

There is a second crane at cityscape NOW!!!!!!!!!!. It is a smaller crane located in the parking garage hole, in Central Ave, right at the north end of it. WOW!!!!! I am not sure what its purpose is, but there it is!

HUGE NEWS I THINK.

I will check it out more thoroughly tomorrow morning. I drove right past it and couldn't believe my eyes.... a bright red, new looking, medium sized crane. I did not see that coming so soon.

Is this the crane you are talking about?

This crane is up today over the holes that were dug yesterday and photograpghed above. Not sure what its purpose is yet.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3327/3450516584_b6f1b6f552_b.jpg

HX_Guy

Apr 19, 2009, 1:53 AM

Yea I think that's the one he's talking about...it's nothing major, just for the construction of the parking garage it looks by the size of it.

When it was mentioned earlier that there would be two new cranes on the side, I wonder if they meant these small types or if they meant actual tower cranes?

gymratmanaz

Apr 19, 2009, 2:33 AM

OOps, I guess I didn't look closely the first time this picture was posted. I thought it was the 1st crane....I'll blame my fuzzy eyes and grainy picture.

I am betting the two cranes - this one and a regular big one.

Seeing this new one live was cool. It is bigtime shiny and red. I agree HX, this will be for garage work. Still think that other hole we saw will be for the actual big crane. fingers crossed

combusean

Apr 19, 2009, 11:37 AM

There has been so many things said we really don't know what to believe.

I think this is the most apt statement about this project I have read in a long, long time.

As always, they are trying to get a financing package sold.

That sounds kinda scary, actually. Lack of financing has killed so many projects here and elsewhere across the valley.

It half makes me wonder whether the glass is going up quick on the office tower just to weatherize the portions they've already built.

gymratmanaz

Apr 19, 2009, 7:16 PM

24 footers and begining rebar pillars are in for the parking garage portion to the west of the parking garage under central.

PLUS

I was told by the security guard, who has been very accurate so far, that the dirt ramp will be completely removed by the end of this week.

AND

The big cement footer for the 2nd crane is now poured!!!!!

HX_Guy

Apr 20, 2009, 12:00 AM

The big cement footer for the 2nd crane is now poured!!!!!

Is part of the tower crane in that cement footer? It should look something like this once they actually start putting a tower crane in...

Cityscape crane:
http://nitnelav.com/cscrane1.jpg
http://nitnelav.com/cscrane2.jpg

Central Park East crane:
http://nitnelav.com/cpecrane10.jpg

gymratmanaz

Apr 20, 2009, 2:05 AM

right now it is just the first pour of cement in the basin.

gymratmanaz

Apr 21, 2009, 5:14 PM

Two days with no updates.....Anyone else dying for new info??!!!!!

HX_Guy

Apr 21, 2009, 5:42 PM

Shit, I was waiting for you to update us, you usually go by there pretty regularly. :)

gymratmanaz

Apr 21, 2009, 7:11 PM

I will be down there this afternoon. I apologize. :)

Now HX, you go find another permit on a new project! Deal?

gymratmanaz

Apr 22, 2009, 3:19 AM

UPDATE - half way through the 18th floor

AND

YES - Crane #2 foundation has heavy rebar set, four walls around it, and will be poured with the pedistal added by the end of the week!!!

The actual crane will be mounted to the pedistal in about 3-4 weeks, once the rest of the garage floor, rebar and cemented walls, and other pillar mountings are done.

...also, a lot more brick from PSP is gone! I am sure Renone will get us a new picture soon ( hint hint hint) :)

HX_Guy

Apr 22, 2009, 6:23 AM

Good stuff gymratmanaz, I'll have to see about checking it out soon.

Here is something I pulled from a PDF file on the city's website. I'm trying to see if I can get a better quality version and if any other new renders are available.

http://nitnelav.com/CityScapeConstruction/cityscapenewrender.jpg

gymratmanaz

Apr 22, 2009, 11:17 AM

new renderings would be awesome!!!!

Yea, thanks. I was excited to see and hear about the second crane and all!!!!

renone

Apr 23, 2009, 9:35 PM

My view is blocked by the street sign, but this a picture of the base of crane #2 (or crane #3 if you count the temporary red one still on the property).

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3589/3468703139_033c263cdd_o.jpg

gymratmanaz

Apr 23, 2009, 9:53 PM

Thanks renone. The base and pedestal are in then!!!!!!

HX_Guy

Apr 23, 2009, 10:57 PM

Now THAT kicks ass! Now I wonder if this is in place strictly for the parking garage portion or it solidifies the 2nd tower somewhat.

Also, it looks to be smack in the
middle of Central, so looks like Central will
Be closed the whole time the second tower is going up.

Luke Skyscraper

Apr 23, 2009, 10:57 PM

Will the (larger) 3rd crane be used to erect tower #2? If so, then tower 2 is a definate go. We now need to find out what tower 2 will really be when it grows up!
Is there any serious activite over at the new courts building site?

Luke Skyscraper

Apr 23, 2009, 10:59 PM

gymratmanaz

Apr 24, 2009, 2:06 AM

Has to be for tower two. The workman that has tod me all of this before, also said it will be cool when both cranes are working on both towers. he hasn't been wrong yet.......cross your fingers.

HX_Guy

Apr 24, 2009, 3:03 AM

HX
You read my mind about the 3rd crane. But if the garage is below grade- would they need a crane of that height? I would think it would be on the order of the smaller red and white crane.
We need confirmation!!!:whip:

The smaller red/white cranes don't have the span that's probably needed. I've seen tower cranes used for very short buildings before, it doesn't always have to do with the height but also with how much work area is available.

This crane definitely be used for the parking garage and if there is a tower #2, this is the crane for it, but it isn't guaranteed just because a crane is in place. I mean hell, sometimes a building may even start going up, and stop after a few floors, with the crane attached and all, so it's never a guarantee.

gymratmanaz

Apr 24, 2009, 3:20 AM

I guess we hold on till we can get some real confirmation from Cityscape people. Still a crane is a better sign than no crane.

Though, if a big crane is only used to bring supplies down to the garage, couldn't the existing one do that already? Would they pay the expense of renting a second crane to do what one could already. I don't know the answer....just thinking out loud...in here...to other smarter guys than me.... in this area.

CANUC

Apr 24, 2009, 3:39 PM

I just don’t see how this crane will be for tower 2. Consider that based on RED’s schedule Central is suppose to open by 2010 which means that crane would have to be out of the way. I don’t see how they can erect tower two in that time frame if they don’t even have a base in place. My theory is that this crane will be used to complete the underground garage. They placed the crane smack in the middle of Central because the new garage buts up against the garage under PSP and is needed because of the expanse of the garage itself, from Central to 1st St. I think RED will build the garage portion to comply with parking requirement set by the city and will cap the top. At that point they will gauge the market condition and determine what if anything will happen to tower two. But that’s just my theory.

HX_Guy

Apr 24, 2009, 3:54 PM

Where did you get the information that Central is supposed to open by 2010? I've seen that it's supposed to be closed through 2010.

gymratmanaz

Apr 24, 2009, 4:22 PM

I have heard the same, through 2010, which is plenty of time to get the tower up. Once the garage is at ground level, they can probably return central Ave, except for the tower part, then remove it at the last minute.

shakman

Apr 24, 2009, 6:53 PM

Has to be for tower two. The workman that has tod me all of this before, also said it will be cool when both cranes are working on both towers. he hasn't been wrong yet.......cross your fingers.

If the swing radius for each tower crane's jib overlap then one of cranes would need to be taller in order to avoid contact.

Of course I am not sure if Tower 2 is a go. Congrads if so. :worship:

gymratmanaz

Apr 24, 2009, 7:01 PM

Well, crane 2 has to be shorter, since crane 1 is up to 18th floor already. By the time crane 2 gets any height, crane 1 will be down. They are expecting tenants to be able to move into tower 1 by January. I don't see that crane height will be an issue.

HX_Guy

Apr 24, 2009, 7:05 PM

Anyone know what this is for?

PHAS-0705627-04 Issue Date 4/24/09 Expires 4/24/10
Permit Description CITYSCAPE MESA
Project 06-5309 CITYSCAPE
Address 1 E WASHINGTON ST 85004 Zoning
L 1 B * REPLAT OF BLOCK 22 QS Q10-28 APN 112-27-125 Dist 08
Description/Scope of Work: COMMERCIAL NEW

Cityscape mesa?

gymratmanaz

Apr 24, 2009, 7:20 PM

??????????? No clue...or even a guess. Mesa part must be a mistake due to the address

REPLAT OF BLOCK.... REPLAcemenT OF BLOCK.... ?

CANUC

Apr 24, 2009, 7:24 PM

Well, I stick by my theory. Just consider the definition of the word [mesa: an isolated relatively flat-topped natural elevation]. So they are replating block 22. Is that were tower 2 is located?

HX_Guy

Apr 24, 2009, 7:43 PM

Don't focus on the "REPLAT" part, that was done a long time ago and all that means is that the block was redivided into separate parcels. The office tower is it's own parcel, and the 2nd tower would be it's own parcel.

The thing I don't know is what the "CITYSCAPE MESA" review is for. It could very well be for a flat top to the parking garage, such as the hotel pad at Colliers.

HX_Guy

Apr 25, 2009, 1:43 AM

I was able to find out a little bit more information about this "Cityscape mesa".

DESCRIPTION OF WORK: SITE IMPROVEMENTS INCLUDING MESA STRUCTURAL , LANDSCAPING, GRADING, IRRIGATION, HARDSCAPE, MESA CANOPIES, PLUMBIND AND ELECTRICAL. ALSO INCLUDES PERIMETER ROW LANDSCAPING & HARDSCAPE. ASSOCIATED STRUCTURAL AND MECH/ELEC IN THE P1 LEVEL OF THE GARAGE.

So...are they talking about the area around the office tower perhaps? Sort of like the area of Colliers area off of 2nd St where the escalator is and the restaurant/courtyard?

PHX_PD

Apr 25, 2009, 2:31 AM

Looking at abbreviations for "MESA", Maintenance Engineering Support Analysis seems to fit. Unless they're talking about Micro-surgical Epididymal Sperm Aspiration.

gymratmanaz

Apr 25, 2009, 4:11 AM

They unloaded 6 more crane extension pieces. They are going to raise the crane again!!! At 18 stories, it really is making a difference in the skyline already and ads a fun vibe to downtown!

HX_Guy

Apr 25, 2009, 2:19 PM

So this sounds like it could suck. Hopefully it's just a lack of details (as in, forgot to mention accessibility off of 1st st or Jefferson as well).

From a recent press release about the CVS Pharmacy...

"The new CVS/pharmacy will occupy 13,000 square feet at the intersection of 1st Avenue and
Jefferson Street, adjacent to AJ’s Fine Foods and accessible from the redeveloped Patriot’s Park.
CVS will be the first full retail pharmacy to operate in downtown Phoenix in more than 30 years."

PHX31

Apr 25, 2009, 2:33 PM

Again, I never remember, but it seems as though there have been many changes. What stipulations/requirements did the city finally nail RED to? After all of this, it doesn't seem possible that the city back down so far as to allow RED to get away with building one office building, a bit of retail, and garages. Weren't there condo requirements in there? Other requirements for a hotel or more office space?

Shit, the city could have subsidized a new tallest for lower income people with the money they broke on.

Not to mention the fact that they also allowed RED to knock down the old JC Penny buliding and form another empty lot.

I don't know the facts, but it seems like RED is kicking the city's bargaining/laywering ass with (the ghost of) Johnny Cochrane on their side and the City is losing the battle with Lerner and Rowe.

HX_Guy

Apr 25, 2009, 3:12 PM

Nope, here is nothing about a 2nd tower requirement on either Block 22 or 77.

There was a requirement for a tower on Block 23 (where the JC Penny building was), but that is a deal with Baron Colliers and separate from the deal with RED Development.

http://nitnelav.com/cityscapereq.jpg

plinko

Apr 25, 2009, 7:03 PM

^Just a mere shadow of the original three block agreement.

PHX31

Apr 25, 2009, 7:11 PM

It's been said many-a-time, but this is going to be 100% precisely Colliers' Center's identical twin.... One tower, some crappy/uninteresting two levels of poorly planned retail, and "future plans".

HX_Guy

Apr 25, 2009, 8:05 PM

There is some excitement to be had about the tenants that will be coming in though, things that Colliers could only wish they had.

Grocery: AJs
Pharmacy: CVS
Gym: Gold's Gym
Clothing/Retail: Urban Outfitters

Colliers does not even have anything in those categories. I think all they have is restaurants and the FedEx...nothing that really caters to anyone outside of business hours.
There is still a very good chance of a 2nd tower I would think due to the Palomar hotel which appears to be attracting a lot of the office tenants. I wouldn't be surprised if their lease contracts were stipulated by the fact that Palomar has to be built since it's one of their primary reasons for selecting to move into the Cityscape office tower.

gymratmanaz

Apr 25, 2009, 8:41 PM

I agree, the second tower sounds like it will happen. There are a lot more signs pointing to this than against - tenants, crane, website listings...

PhxPavilion

Apr 26, 2009, 12:31 AM

It does, however it may also only end up being a 10 story tower. I'm hoping it's still planned at 400' but I'm not holding my breath.

HX_Guy

Apr 26, 2009, 12:44 AM

It was dropped down to 298' already a while back, and now that height is in limbo.

Can they pencil it out if it were to just be a 10 story hotel? At this point, I'm not sure what's better...a 10 story hotel, or an empty pad that may be developed in the future or could just sit for 9+ years like Collier's Center.

gymratmanaz

Apr 26, 2009, 1:22 AM

bird in the hand in my book. I would be happy with the latest 298.

Wonder when something like that gets announced...or how?

plinko

Apr 26, 2009, 6:37 AM

I'd be very pleased if the 10 story hotel got built. At least it puts people on-site 24 hours a day.

Leo the Dog

Apr 26, 2009, 1:38 PM

I'd be very pleased if the 10 story hotel got built. At least it puts people on-site 24 hours a day.

Another new DT hotel would be great. Aside from the Sheraton, DT hospitality options are lagging in the 1970's. Hotel guests have large expendable incomes that stimulate the local economy (within walking distance). They want to shop, be entertained and eat at unique restaurants while they're in town for work. The Sheraton has been a DT success, but with that, Phoenix is still lagging behind in DT hotel rooms in comparison to other cities with large convention centers.

gymratmanaz

Apr 27, 2009, 3:17 AM

Watched them raise the crane. Amazing to see how it actually happens. All 6 new segments are in, with 10 more floors to go.

Also, there will be a third crane if the 2nd tower goes in, which it sounds like it will, most likely. The second crane that just had its pedestal installed, will only be used for the garage and then removed to return Central Ave as a street. A third crane foundation and base will be installed as the garage is finished. It will be located on the south east corner of the garage. It will be the one to build the second tower. The red smaller crane will be used to work on the north west segment of the parking garage that crane #2 can't reach.

They believe that they will start to pour the floor of the north west garage this week. They may put the #2 crane in by the end of the week or 10 days, depending on progress.

I forget anything HX?

glynnjamin

Apr 27, 2009, 3:04 PM

Hey so...downtown hotels...

How about the Aloft that was supposed to be started in October...then February...any progress on that? Last time the LRT went by, it was still an empty lot.

I only bring it up because I was chatting with someone in the parks dept on Friday asking about the lots on 3rd & Fillmore that the city traded and they said that Copper Pointe will probably be getting them back so he couldn't give me the go-ahead with my community works project.

Leo the Dog

Apr 27, 2009, 3:27 PM

I'm sure this has already been addressed in here, but how many levels underground is the CityScape garage going to be?

Just by eyeballing it, 4?

gymratmanaz

Apr 27, 2009, 4:46 PM

thought it was 5

renone

Apr 27, 2009, 5:59 PM

The parking garage is 5 levels, counting the bottom floor.

Is anyone else suprised by how long PSP is taking? They are working on it every day, but they really haven't accomplished much.

gymratmanaz

Apr 27, 2009, 7:19 PM

any progress today? Are they working and it just takes longer than we would think, or are they just not working on it much?

Vicelord John

Apr 27, 2009, 11:12 PM

there are bulldozers in the park really fuckin shit up right now. I have pictures ill post when im done at hooters

HX_Guy

Apr 27, 2009, 11:52 PM

There is a Patriots Park Assoc of Co-Owners meeting tomorrow morning that I believe is open to the public. Part of the meeting is an update on Cityscape, I might be able to check it out and report back.

gymratmanaz

Apr 28, 2009, 1:38 AM

Go HX GO!!!

HX_Guy

Apr 29, 2009, 12:23 AM

I didn't go to the meeting but talked to Jeff via email. Sometimes I think we here may be more informed on the actual construction then people over at RED, heh. According to Jeff, the tower crane for the South Tower is going up in 1 week, but according to the guy in charge of safety for the Western US at Hunt Construction, the crane going up in only for the parking garage and the south tower crane, if it happens, will not go up until the parking garage is at grade.

He also said that there are no plans for offices above the hotel right now and that they are still planning on doing condos. They are trying to figure the best configuration for the current market but said they have plenty of time to figure that out as the hotel portion goes up.

Aside from that, a new permit was issued today for a Revision of the North Tower. Seems like it will have some sort of "halo" and what is this catwalk thing?

Permit# RVSN-0705627-05 Issue Date Expires 4/28/10
Permit Description CITYSCAPE BLOCK 22
Project 06-5309 CITYSCAPE
Address 1 E WASHINGTON ST 8500

*** REVISION***
ARCHITECTURAL, STRUCTURAL AND M/P/E DESIGN DOCUMENTS FOR THE "HALO" FEATURE AND CATWALK SYSTEM ON THE ROOF OF THE OFFICE TOWER.

PhxPavilion

Apr 29, 2009, 2:00 AM

My bet is the halo is what they are calling the crown and the catwalks are probably for servicing mechanical equipment and/or accessing the window cleaning platforms.

reguyphx

Apr 29, 2009, 3:35 AM

I would love to be wrong, but no financing is available for hotels in the Phoenix area. I have talked to several hotel developers who have built hotels in the last few years and they confirm that financing just isn't available. Consider the last few marquee hotels:
W Scottsdale - Being Foreclosed
Montelucia - Being Foreclosed
Hotel Monroe - Lost financing and stalled
Ritz Carlton - Began grading site and stopped construction

I hope for downtowns sake I'm wrong.

gymratmanaz

Apr 29, 2009, 5:46 AM

But have you talked to RED or Hotel Palomar people? I mean there is an ALOFT hotel being finished on Washington and 44th st. If no hotel money was available, how would that get built?????

W - in Scottsdale, land of resorts and tons of hotel rooms
Montelucia - in Paradise valley and is a resort, not a hotel.
Hotel Monroe - the CEO committed suicide and other financial problems

Apples and oranges to a certain degree. That doesn't mean Palomar will happen, but I think you are jumping to some conclusions using non-comparable information.

Let's hear it from the horses mouth.

AZ KID

Apr 29, 2009, 6:07 AM

I agree Gymratmanaz. Although in tough times, downtown has seemed to do very well. I feel there is more positive coming out of downtown as a whole than negative. I feel that there is a good chance that a hotel is going to be built. My concern is whether anything is going on top. The way cityscape is going to succeed is by having lots of people on site and also making it very accessible.

Vicelord John

Apr 29, 2009, 6:08 AM

I hope for downtowns sake I'm wrong.

You are.

I've sat with my GM and CFO of our management company a couple of times and discussed this very subject. Now is a great time to build a hotel. Money is cheap (though admittedly harder to come by) construction costs are lower, and land is cheaper. Start building now and when you're done in two years, you'll be ready to take the pent up demand for travel.

The hotels you referenced were unlucky that they finished building right as the industry came to a halt, but anyone who builds now will likely finish as the industry picks back up.

oliveurban

Apr 29, 2009, 8:18 AM

W Scottsdale - Being Foreclosed

I hope for downtowns sake I'm wrong.

Just to clarify - the W Scottsdale is not in foreclosure for lack of direct business. Since it's opening the W has actually performed well, especially in comparison to similar hotels in the area. All hotels and resorts in the region are seeing noticeably lower occupancy overall, but some are doing better than others. The W is not in danger of being foreclosed because it's not filling it's inventory. The entire situation has solely to do with it's developer, the overstretched Triyar Companies.

Vicelord John

Apr 29, 2009, 2:03 PM

that isn't entirely true. The W has had a few nights of zero occupancy... thats right.... ZERO.

Luke Skyscraper

Apr 29, 2009, 9:11 PM

Are they up to floor 19 yet? Curious if it is now taller than Phelps Dodge tower. Can anyone post current photo?

gymratmanaz

Apr 29, 2009, 9:24 PM

They are about 1/2 way through the 19th floor. Not taller yet, but pretty darn soon!!!

renone

Apr 29, 2009, 9:42 PM

They usually complete a new floor every Thursday. From the looks of it, they will complete 19 and move up to the 20th floor tomorrow.

In other news, they are pouring cement on the floor of the parking garage right now.

They are still doing a lot of work on the walls of the big hole. It seems like engineers are spraying lines on the walls for hours every day.

The demo of PSP is about 1/4 done.

HX_Guy

Apr 29, 2009, 11:48 PM

The way I've noticed the building go up is like this...

Monday: New floor starts going up
Thursday: New floor (started Monday) is finished
Friday: Core goes up
Monday: Repeat

gymratmanaz

Apr 30, 2009, 1:20 AM

I had to go down and look. They aren't pouring the floor of the garage, and I am not sure what they have poured, but it sure does not look like a simple floor for a garage. There are pads, foundations, raised containment areas, and something big where the tower would go. These aren't simple slabs for parking. i don't have the background to know what each is for. Anyone have a chance to look and see. Whatever they all are, they are doing a lot of work down there!!!

They are definitely 1/2 way through the 19th floor, with pillars poured for the other half. They are also adding more floors of glass.

More bricks gone from PSP, but nothing huge to talk about.....but it is some progress.

HX_Guy

Apr 30, 2009, 2:29 AM

Gymratmanaz: Seriously, what's the deal with no digital camera? Not even on your cell phone? C'MON! :D

gymratmanaz

Apr 30, 2009, 5:29 AM

I know i know.....not as computer savy as most. I took some once, and I couldn't get them on here.

So get your butt down there to document what i found...please??? :) :) ;)

gymratmanaz

Apr 30, 2009, 5:30 AM

I'll try with my camera tomorrow, just not sure how to get them on here

oliveurban

Apr 30, 2009, 7:06 AM

that isn't entirely true. The W has had a few nights of zero occupancy... thats right.... ZERO.

Well, so have many, many hotels in the market. The W has also enjoyed being oversold on a few weekends.

The only nugget of information that I wanted to inject (I realize this is a CityScape thread) is that the W is not in foreclosure due to lack of business, and considering the market this winter/spring, it has performed better than many other, similar hotels in comparison.

In any event, I agree that the Downtown markets still needs more hotel rooms. I hope nothing derails the Palomar.

Vicelord John

Apr 30, 2009, 7:25 AM

where are you getting your information? I cannot think of one other full service hotel which has seen zero occupancy nights.

oliveurban

Apr 30, 2009, 8:55 AM

I used to work in the industry, and continue to maintain relationships with those still involved.

I'm primarily just relaying that Starwood has stated publicly that the W Scottsdale is not in danger of closure due to lack of hotel business, rather explaining the issue has to do with it's developer Triyar, who has defaulted on some of it's construction loans. Triyar is overstretched financially, however, because of several developments on it's books, not just the W.