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photoLith
Nov 24, 2012, 9:11 PM
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/5054C08D-09DC-4618-A6D8-EEB95938B658-277-00000032F2350440.jpg

Sage road and westheimer.

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/E8FA8DBD-11B7-423E-8E3F-188835E2A377-277-0000003443B0E3DB.jpg
2200 post oak is basically done.

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/D4BFBFFB-6D9C-428E-8347-39E76C7BAE9B-277-000000343D641C0C.jpg
New whole foods on post oak.

Brijonmang
Nov 24, 2012, 9:34 PM
@Photolith, thanks for the update. That shot of uptown with 2200 Post Oak is a really cool vantage point. A pretty little skyline coming along for that stretch.

Arch City
Nov 25, 2012, 12:57 AM
The traffic arguments for new apartments and highrises is so dumb, sorry. But how many people live in these kinds of buildings? Maybe 500 people. 500 extra people a day is not going to effect the traffic in a city where there are probably 80,000 people a day drive past that location.
Actually, your argument is the dumb one. Sorry. Why do you think there was so much opposition to the Ashby Tower (http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/stories/2009/03/02/story8.html?page=all)? The streets over there are narrow and the traffic is already horrendous.

I travel on these streets often, which is why I brought up the issue of traffic. I am up and down Kirby, Richmond and Weslayan enough to know that traffic could potentially be a problem. While 500 more people with about 300-400 additional residential cars - not to mention visitors - doesn't sound like a lot to you......it could be a potential problem - especially if the other corners are developed with similar or more dense development.

As stated before, I hope it gets built, but that doesn't mean we can't question specifics and the impact - good or bad - it may have on the community.

http://blog.chron.com/primeproperty/wp-content/blogs.dir/1876/files/2929-weslayan/highrise-ext.jpg

Bailey
Nov 25, 2012, 1:38 AM
Actually, your argument is the dumb one. Sorry. Why do you think there was so much opposition to the Ashby Tower (http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/stories/2009/03/02/story8.html?page=all)? The streets over there are narrow and the traffic is already horrendous.

I travel on these streets often, which is why I brought up the issue of traffic. I am up and down Kirby, Richmond and Weslayan enough to know that traffic could potentially be a problem. While 500 more people with about 300-400 additional residential cars - not to mention visitors - doesn't sound like a lot to you......it could be a potential problem - especially if the other corners are developed with similar or more dense development.

As stated before, I hope it gets built, but that doesn't mean we can't question specifics and the impact - good or bad - it may have on the community.

http://blog.chron.com/primeproperty/wp-content/blogs.dir/1876/files/2929-weslayan/highrise-ext.jpg

Luckily for us, the voters of Houston have approved METRO's rail extension network, as they have wisely anticipated the fact that there will be almost 12 million people in the Houston region in the next 50 years and the city must get more dense to survive. So, luckily we have additional transportation options on the way to relieve traffic congestion issues .............OH WAIT.......... they didn't approve to the current rail funding in November.

If there are traffic problems....... they fall on NO ONE ELSE but the voters of Houston themselves. Not the Ashby Highrise, not the residents, not the developers....

Not only have they, on MULTIPLE occasions, voted DOWN zoning but they once again have spoken out against MASS TRANSIT. Something that can easily move thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of people around the city. Imagine if everyone who need to get in Manhattan on a typical workday had to do so via CAR ONLY!! Of course there would be traffic congestion and YES it would slow down economic opportunity. And so they have efficient people movers keeping the city moving instead of waiting in traffic jams. You have to have these people movers.

Instead of having the University and Post Oak Line already DONE allowing people to easily get to and out of the retail district, we are going to see the typical 'cluster' of cars all around Uptown now through January. Have fun!

Dense housing towers are coming because our city is reaching the point where land is scarce and these are the most efficient ways of developing the land.

Houstonians will learn to adapt eventually.

AviationGuy
Nov 25, 2012, 2:52 AM
I still think those black/silver striped towers in Uptown on Post Oak are the best looking buildings ever built in that area. I believe they were built in the 70s. Anyone know the names of the buildings and the designer? Is/was the name Post Oak Central? You can see them on the left behind the new 2200 Post Oak in one of Photolith's pics.

JManc
Nov 26, 2012, 6:22 PM
1,2 & 3 Post Oak Central. They were designed by Philip Johnson in late 70's/ early 80's.

photoLith
Nov 26, 2012, 8:32 PM
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/80BA137C-EA9C-4D78-9EA6-D5ED95F7BB9F-2151-00000206A2CA89A2.jpg

Recladding of the government building downtown.

mfastx
Nov 26, 2012, 8:50 PM
I was there last week and that building is going to look soooo much better with the new cladding. It's almost like Houston is getting a whole new building!

photoLith
Nov 26, 2012, 11:11 PM
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/869DC0E8-46DA-4408-BB9B-3E32A480A67F-2151-000002303ABB3273.jpg
Shit tons of new construction, including the new 400 some odd foot tall anadarko tower in the woodlands and a mid rise going up along the woodlands waterway.

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/83BD7894-96E0-4629-BDD6-6C8A13810C82-2151-0000023051EB8EC6.jpg

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/BA1BBEA8-DA5B-4109-9F0B-A8A497EAE2B8-2151-0000023061BFAB5C.jpg
The anadarko petroleum tower which will be as tall if not taller then the current anadarko tower next door.

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/1EC3A86F-178B-45F8-8262-A427432ADC2D-2151-000002306E30A553.jpg
A new mid rise across the street which I think is close to TO.

The woodlands now looks like freaking Dubai with all the construction cranes all over the place. There's another random 3 towers going up across the woodlands plus more cranes at the woodlands medical district along 45 that I haven't taken photos of yet.

AviationGuy
Nov 27, 2012, 4:28 AM
Anyone know if there are any height restrictions in the Woodlands? It's starting to actually get a nice skyline for a small city.

weatherguru18
Nov 27, 2012, 5:45 AM
The height restrictions were removed when Mitchell sold The Woodlands 10 or so years ago. When George was still in charge, no building could pass the tree tops. That's why many of the older office buildings are only 7 or 8 stories. Clearly that is no longer the case. There is soon to be two 400+ foot tall towers plus a 20+ story tower on the waterway plus the condo tower.

Btw, for those that were wondering if any of the Exxon buildings would be seen over the trees, I believe that question has been answered. The answer is YES! I was home for Thanksgiving and passed by the location several times and you can clearly see a building sticking up over the tree line. How much taller it will get is beyond me.

cabasse
Nov 27, 2012, 6:26 AM
1,2 & 3 Post Oak Central. They were designed by Philip Johnson in late 70's/ early 80's.

always thought they would fit comfortably in la defense. (also a fan)

also: 2929 - damn.

AviationGuy
Nov 28, 2012, 3:03 AM
The height restrictions were removed when Mitchell sold The Woodlands 10 or so years ago. When George was still in charge, no building could pass the tree tops. That's why many of the older office buildings are only 7 or 8 stories. Clearly that is no longer the case. There is soon to be two 400+ foot tall towers plus a 20+ story tower on the waterway plus the condo tower.

Btw, for those that were wondering if any of the Exxon buildings would be seen over the trees, I believe that question has been answered. The answer is YES! I was home for Thanksgiving and passed by the location several times and you can clearly see a building sticking up over the tree line. How much taller it will get is beyond me.

There's a thread right now at SSP regarding taking tours on Street View. I looked at the Woodlands last night and was completely amazed at that place (in a positive way). I wish it weren't so far from central Houston; otherwise, I'd love to live there even though it's suburban. I also like Sugarland. I visited Cinco Ranch south of I-10 recently and was completely blown away although there's not an "urban center" like you find in the Woodlands and Sugar Land.

Reverberation
Nov 28, 2012, 2:22 PM
Here we go! Richmond at Buffalo Speedway (Southeast Corner);

http://blog.chron.com/primeproperty/files/2012/11/3333-Richmond2-600x387.jpg
http://blog.chron.com/primeproperty/2012/11/new-development-to-transform-inner-city-site/

photoLith
Nov 28, 2012, 3:53 PM
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/46211C30-2379-4111-9917-CA142B6F462F-377-0000001EB52F9046.jpg

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/554E573C-11D6-4EDB-A0F1-65340A02097A-377-0000001E767F96D0.jpg
The new bbva high rise by the galleria along post oak blvd.

Tumbleweed_Tx
Nov 28, 2012, 9:21 PM
BBVA is a little farther up the road, that one is Skanska's new tower

Tumbleweed_Tx
Nov 28, 2012, 9:24 PM
Here we go! Richmond at Buffalo Speedway (Southeast Corner);

http://blog.chron.com/primeproperty/files/2012/11/3333-Richmond2-600x387.jpg
http://blog.chron.com/primeproperty/2012/11/new-development-to-transform-inner-city-site/

methinks they should flip a coin and pick one look over the other.... this looks like a mirror of the BBVA building, which was nice in a rendering but looks disjointed and weird IRL

oscarinhouston
Nov 29, 2012, 2:43 AM
I move here to Houston 6 yrs ago and it amazes me how fast and high the city is growing. I just hope a hurricane won't hit us anytime soon, 'cause I feel the the city (infrastructure) is not ready to handle a Cat 3 or higher.

photoLith
Nov 29, 2012, 9:47 PM
More shitty iPhone photos from the woodlands from today.

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/7E48DAB4-707F-498E-A7AE-2AA26574EBC6-407-00000030E5C8F39F.jpg
Anadarko tower.

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/44BCB5BD-A9FB-479E-B5BD-3FE0D7FD412B-407-00000030EDCD5D03.jpg
The mid rise across the street.

AviationGuy
Nov 30, 2012, 3:03 AM
Photolith, thanks for keeping us up to date on the Woodlands. Great pics.

AviationGuy
Nov 30, 2012, 3:06 AM
I move here to Houston 6 yrs ago and it amazes me how fast and high the city is growing. I just hope a hurricane won't hit us anytime soon, 'cause I feel the the city (infrastructure) is not ready to handle a Cat 3 or higher.

I don't recall what category Alecia (1983) and Ike (2008) were, but they did substantial although mostly superficial damage in Houston itself. I recall all the glass all over the streets downtown, and tons of tree damage everywhere. Seems like the winds were in the 70-80 mph range in the city. A hurricane with winds over 100 mph would devastate the city. It's just a matter of time...

JoninATX
Nov 30, 2012, 5:21 AM
I don't recall what category Alecia (1983) and Ike (2008) were, but they did substantial although mostly superficial damage in Houston itself. I recall all the glass all over the streets downtown, and tons of tree damage everywhere. Seems like the winds were in the 70-80 mph range in the city. A hurricane with winds over 100 mph would devastate the city. It's just a matter of time...

That would be devastating and certainly would effect nearly 7 million people between the Houston mertopolitan area and the golden triangle. Traffic would be our carmageddon.

weatherguru18
Nov 30, 2012, 6:59 AM
I don't recall what category Alecia (1983) and Ike (2008) were, but they did substantial although mostly superficial damage in Houston itself. I recall all the glass all over the streets downtown, and tons of tree damage everywhere. Seems like the winds were in the 70-80 mph range in the city. A hurricane with winds over 100 mph would devastate the city. It's just a matter of time...

Alicia officially (for now) is rated a Cat. 3 with winds of 115 mph. However, on-going is a hurricane reanalysis project dating back to 1850 which will reclassify all storms. It is widely believed Alicia will be downgraded to a weak 2. Hurricane Ike was a strengthening Cat. 2 at landfall. Winds at both airports exceeded hurricane force and the winds in The Woodlands, per a Texas Tech research group, indicated winds sustained between 80 and 90 mph at the peak of the storm.

In a worse case scenario for Houston (Category 5 just north of Freeport) would put winds IN HOUSTON over 125 mph sustained (strong cat. 3) with gusts in the 150 category. Hurricanes lose 1 category after just a few miles inland thanks to friction of the land and buildings.

Even areas like The Woodlands would be devastated in a catastrophic hurricane. Just look at the mess that was left behind after Ike---a Cat. 1 over The Woodlands.

Dale
Nov 30, 2012, 3:47 PM
Never mind Cat 3, in 2005, Orlando was DEVASTATED by a Cat 1. It literally changed the look of the city vegetation and trees were so denuded, and virtually every roof had to be replaced.

AviationGuy
Dec 1, 2012, 4:14 AM
I remember seeing vids of the damage to pine forests in southeast and east TX from hurricane Rita (2005?). That's the one that tore up Pt. Arthur and Beaumont, and then went on up into east Texas and did so much damage to the trees. It was on track to hit Austin, then veered to the east and was going to hit Houston, and then veered more to the east and hit Pt. Arthur and Beaumont. That's when a large portion of Houston's population evacuated but in hindsight, didn't need to.

Hope I'm remembering all this correctly.

AviationGuy
Dec 1, 2012, 4:15 AM
Never mind Cat 3, in 2005, Orlando was DEVASTATED by a Cat 1. It literally changed the look of the city vegetation and trees were so denuded, and virtually every roof had to be replaced.

I remember an ice storm in Houston sometime during the 90s that brought down so many tree limbs that it looked like a hurricane had gone through.

oscarinhouston
Dec 4, 2012, 1:01 AM
I don't know about y'all but I think that a Rail Light along Washington Ave. would be an amazing idea.

MY only question is if it would be possible to build an underground?. I know, I know... it's impossible since we live on a flood zone... I'm just saying, maybe is possible, like the underground lines in NY and Chicago. :banana:

Dale
Dec 4, 2012, 1:03 AM
Anyone old enough to remember the elevated rail line that was planned for Houston ?

I believe it was early to mid 80's.

photoLith
Dec 4, 2012, 1:30 AM
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/DB646DBB-E63F-4266-B4ED-4D06B6A0087F-471-00000083D6926707.jpg

I walked by the Ben Milam hotel Saturday and they have it pretty well gutted for demolition :(

JManc
Dec 5, 2012, 1:23 AM
Anyone old enough to remember the elevated rail line that was planned for Houston ?

I believe it was early to mid 80's.

i remember that. would'a been kinda cool.

Illithid Dude
Dec 5, 2012, 3:06 AM
I walked by the Ben Milam hotel Saturday and they have it pretty well gutted for demolition :(

So sad. I'm surprised this demolition wasn't fought harder.

Double L
Dec 5, 2012, 7:24 AM
What is going to replace the Ben Milam Hotel?

mfastx
Dec 5, 2012, 8:34 PM
What is going to replace the Ben Milam Hotel?

8 story apartments spanned over two blocks developed by Finger.

Bailey
Dec 6, 2012, 12:36 AM
I don't know about y'all but I think that a Rail Light along Washington Ave. would be an amazing idea.

MY only question is if it would be possible to build an underground?. I know, I know... it's impossible since we live on a flood zone... I'm just saying, maybe is possible, like the underground lines in NY and Chicago. :banana:

They "hope" for rail on Washington also but I believe their "Phase 3" Ligth rail plan is a bit ambitious.

http://vimeo.com/53427629 (http://vimeo.com/53427629)

We need to get the University and Post Oak Lines built!

natenate
Dec 6, 2012, 11:15 PM
They "hope" for rail on Washington also but I believe their "Phase 3" Ligth rail plan is a bit ambitious.

http://vimeo.com/53427629 (http://vimeo.com/53427629)

We need to get the University and Post Oak Lines built!

Isn't any light rail expansion out if the question, since voters turned down proper funding???

oscarinhouston
Dec 7, 2012, 12:00 AM
Isn't any light rail expansion out if the question, since voters turned down proper funding???
That looks amazing! I really hope it ends up looking like that

BrandonJXN
Dec 7, 2012, 3:09 AM
8 story apartments spanned over two blocks developed by Finger.

Why couldn't they rehab the hotel? Looks fine to me.

photoLith
Dec 8, 2012, 9:50 PM
^
Because we need to destroy as much of this cities history as possible.

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/FBB66E73-7017-4727-8523-BB71B91C0C5F-4465-0000037DA10CB368.jpg
They have taken off half the old shitty 60s cladding on the soon to be Marriott on main street and will soon start the historic restoration of the building to its previous early 20th century look.

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/EAF1C00F-029A-4E14-80C2-64624F7EC3F7-4465-00000384E0D5CD69.jpg
They have also started the intersections of the light rail lines on main street and shut the main street line down.

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/C188FADD-9415-4CAA-AF87-D1CB36DB66B0-4465-00000384EAAAFB61.jpg

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/9147C82A-34AC-4553-B18D-D79F497A1F39-4465-0000038BC796C815.jpg
Post midtown square is done, which is part of the post mid town loft development.

photoLith
Dec 9, 2012, 6:45 PM
Houston First to sell downtown property next to convention hotel site
Houston First Corp. said Wednesday it is selling a piece of property downtown for residential and retail development.
Holliday Fenoglio Fowler will market the 110,000-square-foot tract bounded by Capitol, Rusk and Crawford streets and Avenida de las Americas, Houston First said in its Wednesday statement.
The property qualifies for the Downtown Living Initiative, which is intended to double the number of residences downtown and spur development throughout the area by 2016. Through the initiative, which the city passed in August, developers can receive a $15,000-per-unit tax rebate for residential developments downtown.
The Downtown Redevelopment Authority on Nov. 13 approved the first project to take part in the program.

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/HoustonFirst-downtownproperty2012-WEB.jpg
http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2012/11/14/houston-first-to-sell-downtown.html

Maybe just maybe with the residential tax incentives we can finally have a lively downtown past 5pm. We have Fingers new huge development across from the ball park, this lot selling for residential, and then another residential scraper going up on Main Street right across from Houston House, which kind of ruins the views from there, but oh well.

YakuzaIce
Dec 9, 2012, 8:13 PM
Well I went to see the demolition of the Ben Milam Hotel today. Seemed like a pretty light turnout though there were quite a few people Downtown in other places. There appeared to be several other things going on Downtown though. It's a shame we can't seem to find a use for a lot of these pre-WWII buildings.

zNDLz9U_yN8

photoLith
Dec 9, 2012, 8:20 PM
I was just about to post that too, I just rode my bike past it and saw they blew the damned thing up, didn't know that was happening today. Such a shame and it's replacement is pretty shitastic looking but at least there will be new residents in that part of town.

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/F6FEF532-126D-4C28-B54A-9213FA4DFA74-5230-000003FA16A3055E.jpg

TexasPlaya
Dec 9, 2012, 8:53 PM
Well I went to see the demolition of the Ben Milam Hotel today. Seemed like a pretty light turnout though there were quite a few people Downtown in other places. There appeared to be several other things going on Downtown though. It's a shame we can't seem to find a use for a lot of these pre-WWII buildings.

zNDLz9U_yN8

Thanks for the video.

Why couldn't they rehab the hotel? Looks fine to me.

It is a shame. But it is just reality. It is easy for posters to complain about this on a forum but in real life it comes down to economics.

In this case: This hotel has been vacant for a long time, at least a decade, and previous owners did need update and modernize this building. The ceilings are low and would need to raised and all sorts of modernization would need to occur. That's not cheap compared to knocking it over and building at least twice as many units. Economics and bad previous ownership.

On the other hand this building by photolith:

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/FBB66E73-7017-4727-8523-BB71B91C0C5F-4465-0000037DA10CB368.jpg

Has been updated and modernized by it's owners and has remained occupied more so which will justify a re-cladding after many decades.

Dale
Dec 9, 2012, 9:36 PM
It's nice to keep great buildings and to get great new buildings. But I don't get the impression that many people realize the hoops that building owners and developers have to jump through these days.

I just attended a funeral conducted in a marvelous, 116-year old church. One of the deacons was gracious enough to give me a tour of the place. And he told me that the cost of upgrading the structure, so as to comply with government on all levels, far exceeded the cost to build the original structure even when adjusted for 2012 dollars!

bobbyv
Dec 10, 2012, 2:59 AM
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/DB646DBB-E63F-4266-B4ED-4D06B6A0087F-471-00000083D6926707.jpg

I walked by the Ben Milam hotel Saturday and they have it pretty well gutted for demolition :(

wow that's a travesty:(

JManc
Dec 10, 2012, 3:30 AM
http://www.pbase.com/mancusoj/image/147782105/original.jpg

photoLith
Dec 10, 2012, 7:44 PM
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/CB4D0ED5-058B-4044-886F-123AB7A64571-324-00000026718A0330.jpg
Across from the newish whole foods on west Dallas.

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/3020DDB3-6245-4AB2-ADEF-C1B691A29B21-324-0000002678D5F3EF.jpg
Another apartment block going up further down west Dallas.

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/E57A5C03-0837-40EE-B715-ED0EC7AD8F46-386-0000002DBB4774C7.jpg
The new md Anderson cancer research tower in tmc.

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/E15B1AFC-AE20-4BEA-B9A8-63116F3F72D5-386-0000002DB5BD835D.jpg

http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/36103D34-B00C-45A7-93D7-95E5F866B323-386-0000003D76D13488.jpg
New condo building at 12th and studewood in the heights.

oscarinhouston
Dec 12, 2012, 3:15 AM
I think houston is ready for a super tall skyscraper to give the city the right internaternational atention it needs

photoLith
Dec 12, 2012, 2:42 PM
^
That would be nice but I don't see that happening at all anytime soon. It would be much nicer though if most of the Parkin lots downtown could be I filled with nice residential towers and retail. Talkin about that, I spoke with one of the developers of the fingers development across from the ball park and he said they would start construction in April on the two blocks of residential mid rises going up at the former Ben Milam site.

rdavis4559
Dec 12, 2012, 10:44 PM
^
That would be nice but I don't see that happening at all anytime soon. It would be much nicer though if most of the Parkin lots downtown could be I filled with nice residential towers and retail. Talkin about that, I spoke with one of the developers of the fingers development across from the ball park and he said they would start construction in April on the two blocks of residential mid rises going up at the former Ben Milam site.

I agree. Lots of low and mid-rise infill can be impressive as long as it is is integrated well with infrastructure and parks rather than simply mindless sprawl.


http://s168316224.onlinehome.us/aabservations/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/100_0777.jpg
http://www.mdnphoto.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/20100930_shanghai_world_financial_center_observation_deck_urban_development001.jpg
http://www.chinaoutsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/IMG_4349.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma6j334aWk1rn8p4do1_1280.jpg
http://www.cs.utah.edu/~abhi/Travel/pics/japan/UrbanTokyoSprawlSMALL.JPG
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-N4xJl6a4mOg/TsPwxxsoiRI/AAAAAAAABu8/KzNi6kdCLyw/s1600/4eCNI.jpg

Admin note: Removed active photo tags since they were not properly credited. Please make sure to provide a link to the page where you found each photo.

oscarinhouston
Dec 13, 2012, 3:26 AM
Is there like a website or something where we can start a petition to build a real skyscraper? :previous:

Dale
Dec 13, 2012, 3:30 AM
Is there like a website or something where we can start a petition to build a real skyscraper? :previous:

Probably the best way to get a real skyscraper is to give a huge donation.

TexasPlaya
Dec 13, 2012, 7:25 AM
Marriot Marquis Convention Center Hotel:

A post from SmellyHoustonian on HAIF (http://www.houstonarchitecture.com/haif/topic/25891-another-new-grb-convention-center-hotel-residential-retail/page__st__150):

Here is a discussion of what it will take from the city in terms of funds/development incentives that it's going to take to get the Hotel built. Looks to be a lot, totalling $138 million. Houston First will give $58.7 million in cash, $53 million in rebates on city property, hotel and alcohol sales over 20 years, $26 million in rebates on state taxes over 10 years and it will be owned by RIDA who will keep excess revenue (unlike the Hilton owned by the city)

Houston First will also build a $31 million parking garage, which will be leased by the hotel for $62 million over 50 years.

For the curious, it will be a Marriott Marquis hotel.

I'm not sure about the project. It comes at a steep price, without a lot of the benefit that came with the investment in the Hilton. I'd rather the project take on the steps used to build the Hilton, it's a better deal for the taxpayers.

HoustonChronicle($$$)Link (http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/City-to-offer-hotel-developer-138M-in-incentives-4109932.php)

Here are some renderings by the poster largeTexas: (http://www.houstonarchitecture.com/haif/topic/25891-another-new-grb-convention-center-hotel-residential-retail/page__st__180)

http://assets7.pinimg.com/upload/133489576426675042_mhQAnOan.jpg

http://assets5.pinimg.com/upload/133489576426675039_ZuFsGpWk.jpg

http://assets7.pinimg.com/upload/133489576426675036_iCIvop88.jpg

http://assets5.pinimg.com/upload/133489576426675032_wNvGjRy0.jpg

http://assets7.pinimg.com/upload/133489576426675028_4FVametl.jpg

kingkirbythe....
Dec 13, 2012, 7:39 AM
That Texas pool is fantastic. It better make it the final product. :-)

photoLith
Dec 13, 2012, 7:20 PM
Uh so, according to the above renderings, they are going to close off the street in front of GRBCC and turn it into a walkway?

photoLith
Dec 13, 2012, 9:00 PM
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/D92DFF92-C54D-4934-A09F-5B50659DE5F6-875-000000D8764D1B45.jpg

Construction has started already on 2929 Weslayen so thats pretty awesome!!! Its going to be 40 some odd stories so that means it will be around 470' or so.

http://blog.chron.com/primeproperty/wp-content/blogs.dir/1876/files/2929-weslayan/highrise-ext.jpg
chronicle.com

This tower is big enough that it should probably have its own thread in the high rise section.

shakman
Dec 14, 2012, 7:35 PM
I think houston is ready for a super tall skyscraper to give the city the right internaternational atention it needs

I would think the energy industry gives Houston plenty of international attenion.

oscarinhouston
Dec 17, 2012, 2:43 AM
I have to say though... I think the Galleria is becoming the new Downtown!

oscarinhouston
Dec 17, 2012, 11:38 PM
why are they always deleting the pictures i post????

Tom In Chicago
Dec 18, 2012, 11:26 PM
^The images you posted are off topic and not relevant to the discussion of "projects and construction". . .

. . .

Bailey
Dec 19, 2012, 3:50 AM
I have to say though... I think the Galleria is becoming the new Downtown!

The Galleria...err...Uptown will never be downtown. Downtown strives to have urban connectivity....Uptown strives to have non walkable areas with wide roads and gated condo towers and their business leaders have managed to reject a light rail system that would move people.

The Galleria will never be downtown.....the layout has already been established.

It may have a skyline and tall buildings but it pales in comparison in of the focused efforts the leaders of downtown have done to make downtown a place!

lockmat
Dec 19, 2012, 2:57 PM
For those not tuned in to HAIF, a reliable source is hinting a "supertall", or at least a highrise, to be built downtown. It seems like it will be at the old YMCA location, 1600 Louisiana.

photoLith
Dec 19, 2012, 3:08 PM
I heard that when they first knocked that historic building down it was to be turned into a parking lot and then like a decade from now like a 30 story building. If a supertall is going in there or something tall that would be amazing! I wouldnt hold my breath for anything at this moment though. But how exciting would that be? That would be kick ass.

lockmat
Dec 19, 2012, 3:29 PM
I heard that when they first knocked that historic building down it was to be turned into a parking lot and then like a decade from now like a 30 story building. If a supertall is going in there or something tall that would be amazing! I wouldnt hold my breath for anything at this moment though. But how exciting would that be? That would be kick ass.

We shall see. This guy is not just a speculator. I believe he has first hand knowledge of these kinds of things. Of course, things are always proposed and then scrapped. It was just kind of funny how he made two separate comments in old threads. One was in a "will Houston ever have a supertall again" thread and he said, "depends on your definition of supertall." So maybe it's not a supertall, but at least a highrise. The other thread was about the YMCA building and he replied to someone's post that said it would it would be a great site for a trophy tower, and he said, "spot on."

There is also another poster that submitted two different posts saying he spoke with Chevron employees saying they were building a midrise. This guys isn't an "insider" but he doesn't normally speculate or lie either, so he's trustworthy.

photoLith
Dec 20, 2012, 11:30 PM
This is all the downtown development that I know about as of right now that is happening or is soon going to happen. If anyone knows of anything else possible, please tell me.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8358/8291876907_8db87272a4_b.jpg

The red block is going to be a 32 story apartment tower, still some speculation on that one though.

The small light blue strip on 1/3rd of that block is a rather boring 1 story daycare center but oh well.

The yellow on main street is supposed to be a main street improvement with new retail going in at the bottom of that old building that was converted into a parking garage.

The yellow block across from Discovery Green is the new Marriott Hotel.

The 1/3rd part of the lot thats light green as per the Marriott Hotel rendering shows that being a 1 story retail center but Im sure it will be taller than 1 story.

The blue lot was recently purchased by a residential developer and hopefully something becomes of that lot soon.

The light green lot will be the new Houston tourist/welcome centre.

The orange is nothing too exciting, just a new crap parking garage but still development.

The green is the new Marvy Fingers residential development that will be 7-8 stories tall and is supposed to start construction in April.

Then the pink lines are the new light rail lines going in.

mfastx
Dec 21, 2012, 2:34 AM
Great map, photoLith! Not sure of any new imminent developments, but I hope to wipe out some more parking lots in the next few years.

Shasta
Dec 21, 2012, 6:29 AM
806 Main Bldg being turned in to a JW Marriott Hotel (underway).

The rumored old Texas Company complex conversion into apartments is still on the board.

The rumors of Chevron building a new tower on the old YMCA lot are getting hotter. Chevron just announced they are moving 800 employees from San Ramon, CA (East Bay headquarters) to Houston. They need space; badly.

Hines is still in play to build a spec office tower on Main St (the old McDonald's spot that was going to become the Shamrock a few years ago).

Skanska owns the old Houston Club Bldg. They're floating plans around for a new office tower. I'd be willing to bet that 1 of the last 2 options (Hines or Skanska) make it out of the ground).

photoLith
Dec 21, 2012, 3:53 PM
^
What old McDonalds spot?

shakman
Dec 21, 2012, 5:57 PM
photoLith - How about adding Five Allen Center?

I also read about plans for a 21-story tower being developed by an Atlanta developer.



...
The rumors of Chevron building a new tower on the old YMCA lot are getting hotter. Chevron just announced they are moving 800 employees from San Ramon, CA (East Bay headquarters) to Houston. They need space; badly.
...


Nice. I did not here about this. Any specificiations released about this new tower?

photoLith
Dec 21, 2012, 6:33 PM
I didnt put the 5 allan centre or that Chevron tower because as of now nothing at all is happening with those projects so I didnt include them.

shakman
Dec 21, 2012, 7:13 PM
I didnt put the 5 allan centre or that Chevron tower because as of now nothing at all is happening with those projects so I didnt include them.

Oh. I thought the marketing campaign is ongoing for 5 Alllen?

photoLith
Dec 21, 2012, 8:53 PM
^
I dont know but I haven't heard much from that project for a good year now.

photoLith
Dec 22, 2012, 12:52 AM
Ok I updated it with other possible projects but the ones I added my not happen for years.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8081/8295862574_528ddd9a0b_b.jpg

5 Allen Centre is the green lot on the upper left section of the map.

The yellow lot on the bottom left is the site of the supposed Chevron Tower.

The pink lot on the top is the site of the also supposed Hines Tower.

TexasPlaya
Dec 22, 2012, 1:42 AM
Ok I updated it with other possible projects but the ones I added my not happen for years.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8081/8295862574_528ddd9a0b_b.jpg

5 Allen Centre is the green lot on the upper left section of the map.

The yellow lot on the bottom left is the site of the supposed Chevron Tower.

The pink lot on the top is the site of the also supposed Hines Tower.

Thanks for the work and the updates.

It seems strange that a residential tower (red block) would be constructed in south downtown even with the rumored Chevron tower.

lockmat
Dec 23, 2012, 4:11 AM
I'm not sure if any of you follow Coy Davidson on twitter. He is with Colliers. I asked him recently about that downtown Hines tower and he said that rumor has died down considerably.

photoLith
Dec 24, 2012, 10:45 PM
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/photolitherland/FF4E57CE-8152-4CAA-B267-C9745AC5F5C0-11003-00000656BA77DC60.jpg

The new anadarko tower from today which will be as tall as the tower to the left once completed in The Woodlands.

BrandonJXN
Dec 25, 2012, 1:59 AM
Ok I updated it with other possible projects but the ones I added my not happen for years.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8081/8295862574_528ddd9a0b_b.jpg

5 Allen Centre is the green lot on the upper left section of the map.

The yellow lot on the bottom left is the site of the supposed Chevron Tower.

The pink lot on the top is the site of the also supposed Hines Tower.

The southern part of downtown Houston is begging to be developed.

AviationGuy
Dec 25, 2012, 2:59 AM
Visiting family in Houston for Christmas. I had a chance to drive through Uptown, Highland Village, and Upper Kirby this afternoon. Those areas are looking sharp.

Von
Dec 25, 2012, 5:06 PM
Ok I updated it with other possible projects but the ones I added my not happen for years.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8081/8295862574_528ddd9a0b_b.jpg

5 Allen Centre is the green lot on the upper left section of the map.

The yellow lot on the bottom left is the site of the supposed Chevron Tower.

The pink lot on the top is the site of the also supposed Hines Tower.

Any renderings of this Chevron Tower??

photoLith
Dec 25, 2012, 11:06 PM
No it's just speculation at this point, not even a real project but a mid rise or tower will eventually rise at the site but who knows when? 2 years, 2 decades, who knows.

shakman
Dec 28, 2012, 3:50 PM
^
I dont know but I haven't heard much from that project for a good year now.

Brookfield Office Properties has been marketing 5 Allen Center:
http://www.brookfieldofficeproperties.com/content/Houston/Five_Allen_Center-8784.html

photoLith
Dec 28, 2012, 4:27 PM
Other than that website theres not much about the tower online though and the Brookfield website doesnt have any dates or even renders. I know some renders of it came out a couple years ago but havent seen any since. I hope it gets built and is somewhere around 700-800' but I still think that the tower is speculation at best at this point. Maybe Im wrong, I hope so.

photoLith
Dec 29, 2012, 12:23 AM
Torchy’s, General Store aim for summer opening on 19th Street

The iconic building at 350 West 19th St., that long housed Harolds in the Heights is undergoing a transformation. However, the Harolds sign on the east side of the building will stay.

The building is being redeveloped to become the future home of The Heights General Store and Torchy’s Tacos. Both are projected to open during the summer of 2013.

The Heights General Store will be an upscale neighborhood gourmet food market that will also have general merchandise to serve the community’s desire to shop local.
http://www.theleadernews.com/?p=3942

photoLith
Dec 29, 2012, 12:48 AM
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8357/8320303344_ee882114f0_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320303344/)
DSC_9141 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320303344/) by photolitherland (http://www.flickr.com/people/photolitherland/), on Flickr

First tower for Regents Square getting developed at Rochow St and West Dallas in Montrose

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8212/8319244343_24c98465a7_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8319244343/)
DSC_9138 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8319244343/) by photolitherland (http://www.flickr.com/people/photolitherland/), on Flickr

BBVA Compass Bank Tower is basically done now.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8212/8319244967_e1f14ebaba_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8319244967/)
DSC_9133 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8319244967/) by photolitherland (http://www.flickr.com/people/photolitherland/), on Flickr

The Whole Foods under construction along with a myriad of other developments at BLVD Place on Post Oak Blvd.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8363/8320305030_c238e4a824_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320305030/)
DSC_9129 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320305030/) by photolitherland (http://www.flickr.com/people/photolitherland/), on Flickr

The Gables a big new mid-rise mixed use development on San Felipe and Bering Dr.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8077/8320305470_5c89c22b2b_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320305470/)
DSC_9126 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320305470/) by photolitherland (http://www.flickr.com/people/photolitherland/), on Flickr

A new apartment/condo tower on Brownway St. just off of Westheimer by the Marriott and Galleria.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8356/8320305904_110173610a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320305904/)
DSC_9123 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320305904/) by photolitherland (http://www.flickr.com/people/photolitherland/), on Flickr

2929 Weslayen, the new 500' + apartment tower on W. Alabama and Weslayan

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8497/8319246733_1a83139b1c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8319246733/)
DSC_9118 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8319246733/) by photolitherland (http://www.flickr.com/people/photolitherland/), on Flickr

Gables Phase 2 under construction off of Kirby.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8079/8319247463_e08d1101a7_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8319247463/)
DSC_9112 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8319247463/) by photolitherland (http://www.flickr.com/people/photolitherland/), on Flickr

A gigantic mid rise apartment development on W Gray and Waugh in Montrose.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8221/8320307726_a3a8c0b4ed_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320307726/)
DSC_9101 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320307726/) by photolitherland (http://www.flickr.com/people/photolitherland/), on Flickr

New houses in The Heights on 22nd St.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8353/8320300018_64528c066d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320300018/)
DSC_9556 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320300018/) by photolitherland (http://www.flickr.com/people/photolitherland/), on Flickr

New apartments on Heights Blvd next to the new Walmart.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8222/8319241121_f640e4507e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8319241121/)
DSC_9553 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8319241121/) by photolitherland (http://www.flickr.com/people/photolitherland/), on Flickr

New mid rise off of Douchington Ave and Sawyer St.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8083/8320301310_0c65e5faa3_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320301310/)
DSC_9551 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320301310/) by photolitherland (http://www.flickr.com/people/photolitherland/), on Flickr

The new Marriott on Main St.; the restoration is coming along fairly quick as they remove all that shitty 60s cladding.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8351/8320301796_2a2656ac8b_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320301796/)
DSC_9548 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320301796/) by photolitherland (http://www.flickr.com/people/photolitherland/), on Flickr

Dorms going up at University of Houston

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8222/8319242815_4701158526_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8319242815/)
DSC_9542 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8319242815/) by photolitherland (http://www.flickr.com/people/photolitherland/), on Flickr

Light rail extension going past UH.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8353/8319250127_2d5068fef8_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8319250127/)
DSC_9538 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8319250127/) by photolitherland (http://www.flickr.com/people/photolitherland/), on Flickr

Light rail and new dorms at UH.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8354/8320310222_52baee227b_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320310222/)
DSC_9534 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/photolitherland/8320310222/) by photolitherland (http://www.flickr.com/people/photolitherland/), on Flickr

Condos going up on the East Side near the new BBVa Compass Stadium.

bobbyv
Dec 29, 2012, 2:33 AM
nice infill Houston keep it up, I especially like the new houses in the heights on 22nd

NYC2ATX
Dec 29, 2012, 1:03 PM
I rarely make comments like this but I love your updates photolith, they make me feel like I'm there, walking with you and seeing this city grow and densify before my eyes.

What interests me so much about the urban infill projects, especially the townhomes, is their unique style...like North Side of Chicago meets Garden District New Orleans. Houston realizes it's enormous but also remembers it's in the Sunbelt. Toss in some L.A.-style infill mid-rises and the occasional glass tower, shake well....BOOM, you've got yourself a city. It seems Houston in the end will take inspiration from all these major cities that came before it to create an identity for itself that's all its own. I dig it. :notacrook:

photoLith
Dec 30, 2012, 12:54 AM
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8356/8324053988_1fa8859a0b_b.jpg

A new mid rise on Garrot and Richmond Ave below the elevated 527 in mid-town.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8362/8324054400_f5740ca77b_b.jpg

This old Fiesta which recently shut down will soon be torn down and replaced by an 8 story apartment mid rise in Montrose on W. Alabama and Dunlavy

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8500/8322996193_b29d5e4b12_b.jpg

The new md Anderson cancer research tower in tmc.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8361/8324054942_17d2ea385f_b.jpg

The huge new Hanover residential development in Rice Village that awesomely enough has ground floor retail.

Brijonmang
Dec 30, 2012, 2:34 AM
Great updates! I had not seen any pictures of the Hanover development before. I am definitely a fan. Fiesta coming down for some more residences is definitely a plus, too.

AviationGuy
Dec 30, 2012, 4:40 AM
I saw the new Rice Village complex (the one in the pic) on Christmas Eve. Very good looking.

By the way, I also drove by the BBVA building in Uptown the same day (on Post Oak). I've been watching it go up on its web cam, but this is the first time I've actually seen it. From ground level on Post Oak, I'm very much a fan.

I stayed at the Courtyard on Westpark just west of Kirby. Across the street from the hotel is a lot of vacant land that I don't think has ever been built on, and I don't know why unless it's some sort of no-build right of way. Does anyone know?

Trae
Dec 30, 2012, 3:01 PM
The Galleria...err...Uptown will never be downtown. Downtown strives to have urban connectivity....Uptown strives to have non walkable areas with wide roads and gated condo towers and their business leaders have managed to reject a light rail system that would move people.

The Galleria will never be downtown.....the layout has already been established.

It may have a skyline and tall buildings but it pales in comparison in of the focused efforts the leaders of downtown have done to make downtown a place!

What business leaders in Uptown are you talking about? The Uptown Line can't be built unless the University Line is built. I remember seeing renderings for projects in Uptown and all had the light rail line in it (BLVD Place for example). I don't remember hearing about any opposition from Uptown leaders for light rail.

Prahaboheme
Dec 30, 2012, 3:34 PM
I love those new Southern Italianate houses in the Heights. What a great look!

TexasPlaya
Dec 31, 2012, 12:26 AM
I saw the new Rice Village complex (the one in the pic) on Christmas Eve. Very good looking.

By the way, I also drove by the BBVA building in Uptown the same day (on Post Oak). I've been watching it go up on its web cam, but this is the first time I've actually seen it. From ground level on Post Oak, I'm very much a fan.

I stayed at the Courtyard on Westpark just west of Kirby. Across the street from the hotel is a lot of vacant land that I don't think has ever been built on, and I don't know why unless it's some sort of no-build right of way. Does anyone know?

They recently knocked over an old apartment complex and are about to build another one in its place by the McDonalds near Kirby and Westpark.

rdavis4559
Dec 31, 2012, 12:40 AM
Saw a billboard on 610 today which advertised off the grid homes in houston. anybody hear of this before?

http://thezeroenergyhome.com/

toxteth o'grady
Dec 31, 2012, 7:59 PM
I saw that same billboard last time I was in town. The homes, which according to a recent article are intended for low-income homeowners, will generate as much electricity as they consume. Probably a combination of solar, wind and geothermal, but not sure. The City is promoting these homes, but it's private development, as far as I can tell.

http://thezeroenergyhome.com/

Wattleigh
Jan 1, 2013, 2:53 AM
Props to photolith and others who have come provided the updates. Makes me homesick, but luckily I'll be back in a couple of weeks to visit with family. Hope to get at and shoot at some of these sites as well!

Bailey
Jan 1, 2013, 4:43 PM
What business leaders in Uptown are you talking about? The Uptown Line can't be built unless the University Line is built. I remember seeing renderings for projects in Uptown and all had the light rail line in it (BLVD Place for example). I don't remember hearing about any opposition from Uptown leaders for light rail.

Trae,

The following statement was RELEASED before the November election significantly reducing the funding for the University and Uptown Line.

http://www.chron.com/memorial/news/article/Metro-supports-Post-Oak-transit-proposal-3974878.php


Recognize that the business leaders (through the Uptown Management District) are putting their resources in transit options in things other than light rail.

That money would desperately help the funding for the completion of those two rails lines in Uptown but it is not heir priority and possibly they do not want it even at all.

After visiting the Galleria (and its traffic) 3 times in the last couple weeks I am convinced they need people movers to easily get people in and out of this retail district. If they ignore this, they will be only cutting off their nose to spite their face.

BrandonJXN
Jan 2, 2013, 4:43 PM
Can someone make a list of what's happening in Houston (under construction, approved, proposed)? The first page hasn't been updated in years.

Nerd341247
Jan 3, 2013, 5:09 PM
new U of H football stadium?

Reverberation
Jan 3, 2013, 10:56 PM
Rumorings are that these are the renderings for the new Levy Park Development off Richmond near GWP.

http://www.munozalbin.com/25-mixed-use-tower-levy-park.html

TexasPlaya
Jan 4, 2013, 4:06 AM
Swamplot:New UH Football Stadium Will Point in a Slightly Different Direction (http://swamplot.com/new-uh-football-stadium-will-point-in-a-slightly-different-direction/2013-01-03/)

http://swamplot.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/uh-football-stadium-gameday-skyline.jpg

http://swamplot.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/uh-football-stadium-view-from-west.jpg

IF YOU LOOK closely at these new renderings of Robertson Stadium’s replacement that UH released a couple of weeks ago, you can see the Downtown skyline. UH, a member of the Big East starting in 2013, says that this 40,000-seat, $105-million stadium — whose naming rights are still being shopped around — will be built with a new east-west orientation

Swamplot: Macy’s Announces It Will Close Downtown Houston Store (http://swamplot.com/macys-announces-it-will-close-downtown-houston-store/2013-01-03/)

http://swamplot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/foleys-corner.jpg

Macy’s announced this morning that its 1110 Main St. location will be shuttered this spring...The company will close 5 Macy’s and one Bloomingdale’s in other cities as well.

TexasPlaya
Jan 4, 2013, 4:10 AM
I don't think the preservationist will want to spare this building from the bulldozer. Interesting fact I read, this building is heated by body heat and electrical appliances. However, it is another blow to downtown retail. Hopefully the monetary incentives for downtown residential units will create some sort of critical mass in the near future, the incentives have a limit to them. The major hurdle I see to this is the sheer size of downtown and concentrating residential in an area.