Canadian Retail Thread

[GreatTallNorth2]

Same way as McCafe (aka McDonalds) is successful in Europe. It is cheap, it has caffeine and sugar. Toss in a good marketing department. They are all set.

I can understand that McDonalds is successful in Europe, it has name brand recognition all over the world. They might even sell a few coffees. Europe and the UK (and South Korea) have a lot of big chains (Costa, Cafe Nero, Pret, Joe & the Juice) that sell real espresso based coffee with a barista who at least has some training. The best a Tim Hortons or McDonalds might have is an automatic, push button machine that cannot compare. And from what I know, South Korea, like Australia is at a higher level. Canada and the US is definitely in the low end category when it comes to what we accept as coffee. I really wish some of the UK chains would setup shop here - seeing as Costa was recently purchased by Coke, that might actually happen.

[esquire]

Is Zellers-mania still running wild through our cities and our towns? Or has it subsided?

[manny_santos]

Is Zellers-mania still running wild through our cities and our towns? Or has it subsided?

I totally forgot about Zellers at The Bay. I haven’t checked it out yet.

It was good for getting some website/social media traffic for a week.

[manny_santos]

My buddy is getting hyped up for the T&T opening up in Fairview Mall and the little Asian foodcourt they have already opened parts of it.

Should be interesting

https://media.blogto.com/uploads/2023/04/19/1681927721-20230417-FairviewMall-41.jpg?w=1400&cmd=resize&height=2500&quality=70

https://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/2023/04/fairview-mall-asian-food-toronto/

I’ll have to check that out next time I’m in that part of Toronto. Last time I was in that mall was shortly after Sears closed, seems like a lot of changes since then.

[manny_santos]

I can understand that McDonalds is successful in Europe, it has name brand recognition all over the world. They might even sell a few coffees. Europe and the UK (and South Korea) have a lot of big chains (Costa, Cafe Nero, Pret, Joe & the Juice) that sell real espresso based coffee with a barista who at least has some training. The best a Tim Hortons or McDonalds might have is an automatic, push button machine that cannot compare. And from what I know, South Korea, like Australia is at a higher level. Canada and the US is definitely in the low end category when it comes to what we accept as coffee. I really wish some of the UK chains would setup shop here - seeing as Costa was recently purchased by Coke, that might actually happen.

I think that varies by region in both the US and Canada. There’s no Dunkin on the US west coast, and Tim Hortons is far less predominant in BC than in other provinces. Starbucks rules the roost in the three west coast states and at least prior to 2021 was ubiquitous in the Vancouver area; New Westminster alone had at least 8 locations, and only two Tim Hortons. A lot more independent coffee shops in the four states/provinces than I’m used to out east.

BC, Washington, Oregon, and to some extent California take good coffee pretty seriously. Two of the best coffee shops I’ve been to were in Portland.

[esquire]

I totally forgot about Zellers at The Bay. I haven’t checked it out yet.

It was good for getting some website/social media traffic for a week.

The reason I asked is I actually went to my local Hudson's Bay IRL to find a Mother's Day gift. I stumbled upon the Zellers, I had forgotten it was there.

I took a quick glance and it looked more chic and curated than the Zellers of old, which was typically frumpy... it's a little reminiscent of Target but with obviously far, far less stock.

Maybe it's because it was a Thursday night but there was no one there, my kids were probably the only people under 40 on the whole second floor of the store.

[Loco101]

South Korea has a culture of high end, espresso based cafes. I am not sure how Tim Hortons fits into that environment, but then again I do not know how they can operate in the UK, Spain, and the middle east as their product is so bland and there are so many better coffee and food options out there in these countries.

I saw a review video done by a few people in the UK who visited a new Tim's location. The food was much fancier and of better quality than what we have in Canada. The drink selections other than the coffee seemed to be much higher-end. The reviewers thought everything was very good considering what they had paid. In Canada, Tim's has taken its customers for granted and my prediction is that there will be some bad years ahead unless there is focus on higher qualify and/or better value.

[esquire]

^ Tim's will continue selling what it does for the same reason that Walmart isn't suddenly going to start stocking Yves Saint Laurent clothing. They each have their clientele and they aren't going to suddenly alienate them with something that their customers aren't interested in. It's smart business on their part IMO.

[yaletown_fella]

Tims is a joke now, at least in my experience.

I just went to order a large black coffee after my work today on Bay Street and as I went to grab a seat the worker yelled "no dine in"

Theres no point in going to these places unless you are driving and in a pinch or wanting to sit down to get away from home and relax/people watch.

Going to buy a thermos mug tommorow and just make all my coffee from home.

This understaffing and grab&go nonsense is going to backfire on tims and starbucks . Defeats the whole point of going there. Only makes sense if you are using the drive through.

Why buy sub par coffee in a to-go cup that will get cold within 10 minutes of going outside.

[isaidso]

I think that varies by region in both the US and Canada. There’s no Dunkin on the US west coast, and Tim Hortons is far less predominant in BC than in other provinces. Starbucks rules the roost in the three west coast states and at least prior to 2021 was ubiquitous in the Vancouver area; New Westminster alone had at least 8 locations, and only two Tim Hortons. A lot more independent coffee shops in the four states/provinces than I’m used to out east.

BC, Washington, Oregon, and to some extent California take good coffee pretty seriously. Two of the best coffee shops I’ve been to were in Portland.

When I was in Brisbane, this Australian lady bragged about how their coffee was so much better than ours and told me how I was in for a treat. When she watched me drink it, I had to break it to her that it was exact same product we get at cafes in Canada. She had tried gas station/doughnut shop coffee and assumed it was the only kind Canadians drank.

Comparing gas station/doughnut shop coffee to coffee from a cafe doesn't make sense. They're almost separate products. The first is mass market filter coffee that costs $1.50 to $2.50 while the latter is higher quality drip coffee that costs $3.00 to $4.00. And it's not like the lower price point filter coffee isn't a thing in Australia. Every gas station/corner store in Brisbane seemed to sell it.

Tim Hortons will likely succeed internationally for the same reason low end burger places like McDonald's succeed. Marketing muscle + brand familiarity + low price points. Let's face it, McDonald's is one of the worst burgers out there but it doesn't seem to matter.

Can we still call Starbucks a cafe? If Starbucks just sold regular cafe items like coffee and baked goods, they'd have gone out of business decades ago. People go there for their coffee infused liquid desserts. They're a dessert place like Baskin-Robbins. Nicer than Baskin-Robbins, but a dessert place nonetheless.

[manny_santos]

Tims is a joke now, at least in my experience.

I just went to order a large black coffee after my work today on Bay Street and as I went to grab a seat the worker yelled "no dine in"

Theres no point in going to these places unless you are driving and in a pinch or wanting to sit down to get away from home and relax/people watch.

Going to buy a thermos mug tommorow and just make all my coffee from home.

This understaffing and grab&go nonsense is going to backfire on tims and starbucks . Defeats the whole point of going there. Only makes sense if you are using the drive through.

Why buy sub par coffee in a to-go cup that will get cold within 10 minutes of going outside.

I have yet to see a Tim Hortons disallow dine-in, aside from when there were Covid restrictions. Is this an Ontario thing?

Well, I did see it once, in Campbell River, but there was a sign at the entrance explaining the reason. At the time (September 2021) they had a severe staff shortage. But it was a temporary thing and not an ongoing thing.

[theman23]

I think that varies by region in both the US and Canada. There’s no Dunkin on the US west coast, and Tim Hortons is far less predominant in BC than in other provinces. Starbucks rules the roost in the three west coast states and at least prior to 2021 was ubiquitous in the Vancouver area; New Westminster alone had at least 8 locations, and only two Tim Hortons. A lot more independent coffee shops in the four states/provinces than I’m used to out east.

BC, Washington, Oregon, and to some extent California take good coffee pretty seriously. Two of the best coffee shops I’ve been to were in Portland.

There are 8 Tim Hortons in New West.

[Djeffery]

There are 8 Tim Hortons in New West.

Whereas, for example, here in Woodstock Ontario, roughly half the population of New West, we have 6.

[Doady]

I found a record store near my house a few years ago, a Sunrise Records. I thought they were all gone. Square One used to have Music World, Sunrise, Sam the Record Man, HMV, but now it has none. Sunrise is in a different mall. CDs I bought there so far are Love Junk deluxe, a couple of Stereolab deluxe editions, and a few ECM, maybe more.

Up until then, I had been buying CDs from Amazon, except for some out of print on Discogs or direct from artists on Bandcamp. Annoying thing about Sunrise is they don't do special orders. Some box sets I want are in their database, but my only option is to import them from overseas.

[yaletown_fella]

I have yet to see a Tim Hortons disallow dine-in, aside from when there were Covid restrictions. Is this an Ontario thing?

Well, I did see it once, in Campbell River, but there was a sign at the entrance explaining the reason. At the time (September 2021) they had a severe staff shortage. But it was a temporary thing and not an ongoing thing.

I wouldve been more understanding if there was a sign posted explaining what was going on , it caught me off guard.

I suspect they're pretending to have a staff shortage, but just cheaping out . It was only that one guy behind the counter on Bay near Bloor.

[yaletown_fella]

When I was in Brisbane, this Australian lady bragged about how their coffee was so much better than ours and told me how I was in for a treat. When she watched me drink it, I had to break it to her that it was exact same product we get at cafes in Canada. She had tried gas station/doughnut shop coffee and assumed it was the only kind Canadians drank.

Comparing gas station/doughnut shop coffee to coffee from a cafe doesn't make sense. They're almost separate products. The first is mass market filter coffee that costs $1.50 to $2.50 while the latter is higher quality drip coffee that costs $3.00 to $4.00. And it's not like the lower price point filter coffee isn't a thing in Australia. Every gas station/corner store in Brisbane seemed to sell it.

Tim Hortons will likely succeed internationally for the same reason low end burger places like McDonald's succeed. Marketing muscle + brand familiarity + low price points. Let's face it, McDonald's is one of the worst burgers out there but it doesn't seem to matter.

Can we still call Starbucks a cafe? If Starbucks just sold regular cafe items like coffee and baked goods, they'd have gone out of business decades ago. People go there for their coffee infused liquid desserts. They're a dessert place like Baskin-Robbins. Nicer than Baskin-Robbins, but a dessert place nonetheless.

Starbucks used to have a lot more exclusivity 10-20 years ago. It used to be frequented by Oakville venture capital types and a couple of reserved introverted students on their laptops. Nowadays, it's more downmarket hipsters, hobos, and pickup trucks lined up in the drive thru.

[savevp]

I really wish some of the UK chains would setup shop here - seeing as Costa was recently purchased by Coke, that might actually happen.

We did have Costa espresso vending machines for a little while, but they got pulled. And we do have Pret now. What I'd really like to see is Tim's bringing the full espresso menu they offer in the UK (the flat whites aren't half bad). To be fair, there are a couple fancy Tim's locations in Toronto and maybe elsewhere that do offer premium espresso drinks, plus matcha tea, and other high end things.

[manny_santos]

I wouldve been more understanding if there was a sign posted explaining what was going on , it caught me off guard.

I suspect they're pretending to have a staff shortage, but just cheaping out . It was only that one guy behind the counter on Bay near Bloor.

Was this the one next to Bay Street Video? That one has a substantial seating area.

[manny_santos]

There are 8 Tim Hortons in New West.

I just checked on Google Maps, I found seven. Still, I didn’t realize there were that many; looks like two are gas station locations I wasn’t aware of. One is inside the Douglas College campus; another one is inside a hospital, both ones I didn’t realize existed either. I had forgotten about the one in Queensborough, I don’t go down that way very often.

[theman23]

Starbucks used to have a lot more exclusivity 10-20 years ago. It used to be frequented by Oakville venture capital types and a couple of reserved introverted students on their laptops. Nowadays, it's more downmarket hipsters, hobos, and pickup trucks lined up in the drive thru.

The students who studied at Starbucks on their laptops are now the soccer moms that drive pickup trucks.

I didn't find the coffee in Australia to be anything special either. It was good, but nothing like Spain or Italy. To be honest, I think the concept of a "coffee culture" is what local tourists boards scrape off the bottom of the barrel, kind of like how every board of commerce boasts about its burgeoning tech sector. I haven't been to any developed city (on any continent) in the last decade that didn't have an overabundance of good coffee options.

[manny_santos]

Starbucks used to have a lot more exclusivity 10-20 years ago. It used to be frequented by Oakville venture capital types and a couple of reserved introverted students on their laptops. Nowadays, it's more downmarket hipsters, hobos, and pickup trucks lined up in the drive thru.

Starbucks was already heading in that direction over 10 years ago. I remember the one at Dundas & Richmond in London was already sketchy AF in 2009. Not as bad as the McDonald’s across the street, but it had characters. I also went to one in Manhattan around that time, it was even worse with the restroom being used by a homeless person sponge bathing himself.

[Djeffery]

I found a record store near my house a few years ago, a Sunrise Records. I thought they were all gone. Square One used to have Music World, Sunrise, Sam the Record Man, HMV, but now it has none. Sunrise is in a different mall. CDs I bought there so far are Love Junk deluxe, a couple of Stereolab deluxe editions, and a few ECM, maybe more.

Up until then, I had been buying CDs from Amazon, except for some out of print on Discogs or direct from artists on Bandcamp. Annoying thing about Sunrise is they don't do special orders. Some box sets I want are in their database, but my only option is to import them from overseas.

The owner of Sunrise is the guy that rescued Toys R Us from it's most recent pile of ashes, and is also opening up Rooms and Spaces stores in many former Bed Bath and Beyond locations. He also expanded Sunrise into many former HMV locations several years ago.

[niwell]

I have no idea how Sunrise records makes a go of it. My only guess is securing cheap leases and primarily selling overstock including lots of merch. Which would track for their locations - there used to be a couple on Yonge but now it's all suburban. Also that they don't do special orders.

Still plenty of actual record stores in central Toronto (and other cities) that seem to do decent business. Having friends in the music industry I can confirm that vinyl is the primary physical medium for most smaller (and some larger) bands, though not cheap even post-vinyl scarcity. Most money is made from digital sales, merch and touring. Some bands still do small runs of cds - which is cheap, though actually less-so than previously due to the fact jewel cases aren't mass-manufactured anymore. Also a niche market for cassette tapes, which again, no longer cheap and mostly sold for the aesthetic.

[cslusarc]

ZELLERS TO EXPAND STORE FOOTPRINT ACROSS CANADA (https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/zellers-to-expand-store-footprint-across-canada-830969986.html) (Press release: 23 May, 2023, 06:00 ET)


TORONTO, May 23, 2023 /CNW/ - Hudson's Bay today announces the expansion of its iconic Zellers brand across Canada, increasing the store's footprint in cities across the country. The expansion is also marked by further investment in the operating business at large via significant liquidity to enhance the company's offerings.

With the launch of its first e-commerce site and select stores within Hudson's Bay earlier this year, Zellers is now setting its sights on its next locations. Initially through a series of pop-up boutiques within Hudson's Bay stores, Zellers intends to open larger footprint stores in some or all of those same locations. The first pop-up will launch at Hudson's Bay's flagship Queen Street store in June, with up to an additional 20 pop-ups expected to open in August. These pop-ups will effectively measure customer response in each market to determine the best fits for the Zellers store experience.

[WarrenC12]

Starbucks used to have a lot more exclusivity 10-20 years ago. It used to be frequented by Oakville venture capital types and a couple of reserved introverted students on their laptops. Nowadays, it's more downmarket hipsters, hobos, and pickup trucks lined up in the drive thru.

The fact that they have a lot of drive throughs says it all really. They aren't down market in terms of cost.

[Wigs]

The fact that they have a lot of drive throughs says it all really. They aren't down market in terms of cost.

Tell me about it. When my cousin is hanging out with me she requests a Starbucks pickup and orders some "white girl" concoction that ends up costing around $8 :haha::koko:

[WarrenC12]

Tell me about it. When my cousin is hanging out with me she requests a Starbucks pickup and orders some "white girl" concoction that ends up costing around $8 :haha::koko:

Don't worry though it has enough calories to satisfy your daily intake. Good value. :D

[cslusarc]

Retail Insider reports that RONA will begin to rebrand 10 Lowe's stores in Ontario to the new RONA+ banner in July.

[cranes]

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-region/primaris-real-estate-investment-trust-acquires-interest-in-conestoga-mall-for-270-million/article_93c17940-a66c-5336-af50-0fadc19fe54c.html

Primaris Real Estate Investment Trust acquires interest in Conestoga Mall for $270 million
Group says property holds potential for future infill development
Paige Desmond Record Reporter June 30, 2023
Primaris Real Estate Investment Firm has acquired interest in Waterloo’s Conestoga Mall for $270 million in a deal announced earlier this month.
...
“Conestoga Mall is among the top 15 most productive malls in Canada and will be highly accretive to Primaris’ overall portfolio quality,” says Primaris president and chief operating officer, Patrick Sullivan.
...
The mall currently occupies almost 50 acres of land in North Waterloo. The 45-year-old mall is 94 per cent occupied and covers about 31 per cent of the total property. That leaves the potential for future infill development, Primaris said...

[WhipperSnapper]

so Mark's is called L'eqiupeur in Quebec

[SpongeG]

are Walmarts across Canada changing their hours?
recently many of the Lower Mainland Walmart stores have changed their hours and now close at 10 pm, pre-covid most were open until 12, then covid happened and they closed up 8 or 9 and finally went back to 11 pm, and now they have reduced back to 10.

[casper]

are Walmarts across Canada changing their hours?
recently many of the Lower Mainland Walmart stores have changed their hours and now close at 10 pm, pre-covid most were open until 12, then covid happened and they closed up 8 or 9 and finally went back to 11 pm, and now they have reduced back to 10.

A lot of the retailers on the island are doing the same. Everyone is running into problem of not being able to hire enough staff. Joys of staff shortages.

There use to be some Thrifty foods that 24hour stores. They have all cutback hours.

[casper]

ZELLERS TO EXPAND STORE FOOTPRINT ACROSS CANADA (https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/zellers-to-expand-store-footprint-across-canada-830969986.html) (Press release: 23 May, 2023, 06:00 ET)

We are finally getting Zellers back on Vancouver Island on Aug 11st.

What is interesting is they are saying the "store in a store" concept is to test the market and see what makes sense for the next step.

There is a former site of Home Outfitters in Victoria that is vacant and would be the idea site for a standalone Zellers. Lets hope the concept pans out.

https://www.timescolonist.com/business/zellers-returns-to-victoria-nanaimo-as-pop-up-in-bay-stores-7294644

[Loco101]

so Mark's is called L'eqiupeur in Quebec

That is correct.

https://fastly.4sqi.net/img/general/600x600/44043188_A4Vh5Jt_tks0AJApX_h1PMv63C7V4bodXOvFtD1oTCs.jpg

[Loco101]

are Walmarts across Canada changing their hours?
recently many of the Lower Mainland Walmart stores have changed their hours and now close at 10 pm, pre-covid most were open until 12, then covid happened and they closed up 8 or 9 and finally went back to 11 pm, and now they have reduced back to 10.

Most if not all Walmart stores across Canada and the U.S. are closing earlier than they used to.

Our Timmins location used to be open until 11pm every day but now it is 10pm.

I was at a few locations in a few states that now close at 11pm but used to close at midnight.

I am not aware of any 24 hour locations today in either country like there used to be pre-pandemic. Are there any 24 hour grocery stores today anywhere in North America anymore?

[theman23]

Winco is 24 hours and QFC closes at 1am.

[Ozabald]

Most if not all Walmart stores across Canada and the U.S. are closing earlier than they used to.

Our Timmins location used to be open until 11pm every day but now it is 10pm.

I was at a few locations in a few states that now close at 11pm but used to close at midnight.

I am not aware of any 24 hour locations today in either country like there used to be pre-pandemic. Are there any 24 hour grocery stores today anywhere in North America anymore?

I believe Sobeys (Ropewalk Lane) in St. John's is 24hr.

[Loco101]

Thanks for the responses. I looked up Winco and most of their locations are 24 hours but not all. I've never been to one and see that they are mainly in Western states.

And the St John's NL Sobeys location does appear to be 24 hours. That is interesting and strange that it seems to be the only one in Canada. With all of the labour shortages and increased shoplifting in so many places it really stands out.

[urbandreamer]

There's a Rabba 5 minutes from my apartment that's 24 hours.

Walmart in Waterloo closes at 11pm.

[esquire]

I find that big box store hours are constantly changing with the labour market. At one point many were staying open later and even tinkered with 24 hours, then scaled it back. COVID really did a number on store hours and for the longest time stores were closing early. Hell, even last summer the Best Buy around me was closing at 6 pm, I'm not sure if they've stretched it out since then. But it has become unpredictable in recent years, I find I'm always having to google store hours before going anywhere.

[niwell]

There's still smaller grocery stores (mostly Rabba) in Toronto open 24 hrs but larger stores have cut back their hours. Notably Metro and Sobeys used to have a lot of 24hr locations. I was also pretty shocked the other day when needing to get something from Best Buy while in Eastern Ontario and discovered both Kingston and Belleville locations don't open until 11am. Also driving from Montreal to Ottawa later in the evening and very little aside from gas stations are open late - even Tim Hortons was closed.

[Acajack]

I really had the impression we were moving more to a late-night and 24-hour society before the pandemic (even in the suburbs and smaller cities to some degree), but now almost everything has been scaled back on that front.

[le calmar]

I really had the impression we were moving more to a late-night and 24-hour society before the pandemic (even in the suburbs and smaller cities to some degree), but now almost everything has been scaled back on that front.

This is where things were supposed to be headed. 24-hour cities and nighttime economy. The pandemic put a sudden stop to that to say the least. Nightlife also isn’t what it used to be in a lot of places.

[Loco101]

I find that big box store hours are constantly changing with the labour market. At one point many were staying open later and even tinkered with 24 hours, then scaled it back. COVID really did a number on store hours and for the longest time stores were closing early. Hell, even last summer the Best Buy around me was closing at 6 pm, I'm not sure if they've stretched it out since then. But it has become unpredictable in recent years, I find I'm always having to google store hours before going anywhere.

The Best Buy in Timmins is never open later than 6pm ANY day of the week! That really annoys me. It used to be open until 9pm from Monday to Saturday. I'm sure that our location will be on the chopping block in the next couple of years. What's really strange is that the only store that I would be consider to a competitor to it and also locally owned closed for good in the Spring as the owner retired and sold the building for big bucks.

[casper]

The Best Buy in Timmins is never open later than 6pm ANY day of the week! That really annoys me. It used to be open until 9pm from Monday to Saturday. I'm sure that our location will be on the chopping block in the next couple of years. What's really strange is that the only store that I would be consider to a competitor to it and also locally owned closed for good in the Spring as the owner retired and sold the building for big bucks.

The Best Buy in Victoria switched to a single 8 hour shift. They have problems finding people.

[whatnext]

The Best Buy in Victoria switched to a single 8 hour shift. They have problems finding people.

Gee, maybe they should pay more then.

[SpongeG]

Guildford Town Centre Mall in Surrey used to be open until 9 pm Mon - Saturday, now they are only open Fri & Sat till 9 pm, the rest of the days they close up at 7 pm, also a few of the stores inside the mall will close up at 6 pm even on the late night openings.

Most of the area malls close up at 6 and stay open one night (Fri) a week till 9, two days a week if you're lucky.

Most stores outside of malls in big box power centres also close up much earlier now, 6 or 7 pm.

Ditto for restaurants, the Dennys close to me has recently started to open 24 hours again, for quite a while it was closing at 11 pm, there are a few restaurants that used to be 24-hour locations that now close at 11 and only stay open 24 hrs Friday and Saturday. There is even a Mcdonald's that shuts down, drive-thru everything at midnight, most locations will close the lobby at 11 or 12 and keep the drive-thru 24 hours.

[casper]

Gee, maybe they should pay more then.

A few weeks ago I needed to pick something up in the morning on a weekday and they were closed. They were opening from 11:30 to 7. Walmart did not have it so I had to wait. When I went in chatting with the staff member, she said, it was due to the lack of people.

I have no idea how much they pay. Certain they can pass any extra labour cost on to the consumer. It is not likely they are competing against something like Amazon for business.

[Loco101]

The Best Buy in Victoria switched to a single 8 hour shift. They have problems finding people.

Yes, that makes sense. The store here is open from 10am to 6pm so that it requires a smaller workforce to operate. They definitely have problems finding people here as well.

[Djeffery]

A lot of these stores are probably realizing that the customers will adjust their shopping habits. A store like Best Buy, what are you going there to buy that you just gotta have it right now at 8pm on a Wednesday that you won't wait until tomorrow during the day if you can get there, or until the weekend? Is it life and death that Walmart be open until 11 or midnight? That Metro or some other grocery store was open overnight? Sure it was nice to be able to pop into a store at whatever hour was convenient for me, but that's just it, it was convenient, but I'm still going to need groceries so I'm obviously going to shop when they are open. I'm sure staffing played a role in these hours cutbacks a couple years ago, but I think now the stores just realized they just don't need to be open and are saving money.

[esquire]

A lot of these stores are probably realizing that the customers will adjust their shopping habits. A store like Best Buy, what are you going there to buy that you just gotta have it right now at 8pm on a Wednesday that you won't wait until tomorrow during the day if you can get there, or until the weekend? Is it life and death that Walmart be open until 11 or midnight? That Metro or some other grocery store was open overnight? Sure it was nice to be able to pop into a store at whatever hour was convenient for me, but that's just it, it was convenient, but I'm still going to need groceries so I'm obviously going to shop when they are open. I'm sure staffing played a role in these hours cutbacks a couple years ago, but I think now the stores just realized they just don't need to be open and are saving money.

I can live without stores being open to midnight but 6 pm closings are inconvenient from a consumer standpoint... most people who work, go to school, etc. during the day will typically not have an easy time making it to the store before it closes at 6.

6 pm closings just make it more likely that I will try to buy online from Amazon or wherever instead of having to adjust my schedule to make it to Best Buy or wherever before it closes.

[thewave46]

I really had the impression we were moving more to a late-night and 24-hour society before the pandemic (even in the suburbs and smaller cities to some degree), but now almost everything has been scaled back on that front.

The 24-hour thing was retrenching prior to the pandemic in Ontario due to increased minimum wage implemented by the Wynne government and the difficulty of finding employees to work those shifts.

A number of 24-hour grocery stores went to more regular hours and many Tim Hortons locations started to close overnight in my observation.

Even if one works shift, who is really getting groceries at 3am? It was such a marginal business prospect. The closing of fast-food places at late hours also avoids the worst of the 'less desirable' crowd of those hours who probably aren't worth it.

[esquire]

The 24-hour thing was retrenching prior to the pandemic in Ontario due to increased minimum wage implemented by the Wynne government and the difficulty of finding employees to work those shifts.

A number of 24-hour grocery stores went to more regular hours and many Tim Hortons locations started to close overnight in my observation.

Even if one works shift, who is really getting groceries at 3am? It was such a marginal business prospect. The closing of fast-food places at late hours also avoids the worst of the 'less desirable' crowd of those hours who probably aren't worth it.

Prepandemic I used to typically go grocery shopping at Walmart after 9 pm and by the time I hit the checkouts closer to 10, the store was pretty much empty. And most of the people in there were popping in to buy one or two things, they didn't have a cart full of stuff like me. I can't imagine what it would be like after midnight if they were open then.

[manny_santos]

I really had the impression we were moving more to a late-night and 24-hour society before the pandemic (even in the suburbs and smaller cities to some degree), but now almost everything has been scaled back on that front.

Guildford Town Centre Mall in Surrey used to be open until 9 pm Mon - Saturday, now they are only open Fri & Sat till 9 pm, the rest of the days they close up at 7 pm, also a few of the stores inside the mall will close up at 6 pm even on the late night openings.

Most of the area malls close up at 6 and stay open one night (Fri) a week till 9, two days a week if you're lucky.

Most stores outside of malls in big box power centres also close up much earlier now, 6 or 7 pm.

Ditto for restaurants, the Dennys close to me has recently started to open 24 hours again, for quite a while it was closing at 11 pm, there are a few restaurants that used to be 24-hour locations that now close at 11 and only stay open 24 hrs Friday and Saturday. There is even a Mcdonald's that shuts down, drive-thru everything at midnight, most locations will close the lobby at 11 or 12 and keep the drive-thru 24 hours.

Even before the pandemic, I found some things in Metro Vancouver closed oddly early. When I was working in Burnaby during 2019, Lougheed Town Centre closed at 6pm most weekdays, though Walmart and London Drugs were open later. I also remember going to a Save-on-Foods one evening to buy groceries and shortly after entering there was an announcement that they were closing in 15 minutes. This was at 8:45pm on a Friday. I used to regularly buy groceries after 9pm when I lived in Toronto and earlier in Kingston. I'd never heard of a mall closing before 9pm on a weeknight before I moved to BC the first time.

The big one in Metro Vancouver that closes early - even before the pandemic - is laundromats. As of 2019, there were no laundromats in Metro Vancouver open past 6:30pm, and today the latest they're open is 7pm - which means you pretty much have to start your load by 5pm, which doesn't work if you're working. When I lived in Toronto, I could go to the laundromat in the evening if I needed to. The one in my neighbourhood in Toronto was open 24/7. Here, if you need to go to a laundromat, it's after 5pm and you can't wait for the next day, you actually have to cross the border, as the nearest 24-hour laundromat is in Lynden, Washington of all places. And Bellingham has several open in the evening.

I'm fortunate that I have a laundry machine in my building (as in one washer and one dryer) but there have been multiple situations where the dryer was out of order and I had to use a laundromat.

As for things like coffee shops, my least favourite thing about living in New West is how early everything closes. If you want to meet someone for coffee in downtown New West after 8pm, your only choice is Tim Hortons. One of the coffee shops closes at 2pm and is closed weekends - and this is only a block from Douglas College too. Most others close at 5; the downtown Starbucks closes at 8pm, which is also oddly early. Some of the early closure hours existed before the pandemic too. (I worked for a suburban Starbucks in Ontario over a decade ago that closed at 11pm 7 nights a week)

Lastly, Return-It depots (for returning empty recyclables such as pop cans and beer bottles) have incredibly inconvenient hours for people who work (and again, it was like this pre-Covid). During the week, most have bankers' hours. As much as I disliked The Beer Store in Ontario, at least there you could return empties on weeknights and not wait in a big lineup on Saturday morning.

[Djeffery]

Prepandemic I used to typically go grocery shopping at Walmart after 9 pm and by the time I hit the checkouts closer to 10, the store was pretty much empty. And most of the people in there were popping in to buy one or two things, they didn't have a cart full of stuff like me. I can't imagine what it would be like after midnight if they were open then.

I think the thought process for places like a grocery store that was open overnight was they had staff working anyway restocking and cleaning anyway, so why not make some sales. But I think they realized having customers coming in during that time was just a pain in the ass and the few sales weren't worth it. I used to stop at a Metro when I worked until midnight and the store was usually a mess with pallets and boxes all over the place. I can't imagine the staff enjoyed having random people walking around trying to navigate that mess while they tried to get the store restocked and it probably wasted time for them to be able to do their jobs. Plus there was never a dedicated clerk, it was always one of the stock people who had to man the checkout.

[Ozabald]

Even before the pandemic, I found some things in Metro Vancouver closed oddly early. When I was working in Burnaby during 2019, Lougheed Town Centre closed at 6pm most weekdays, though Walmart and London Drugs were open later. I also remember going to a Save-on-Foods one evening to buy groceries and shortly after entering there was an announcement that they were closing in 15 minutes. This was at 8:45pm on a Friday. I used to regularly buy groceries after 9pm when I lived in Toronto and earlier in Kingston. I'd never heard of a mall closing before 9pm on a weeknight before I moved to BC the first time.

The big one in Metro Vancouver that closes early - even before the pandemic - is laundromats. As of 2019, there were no laundromats in Metro Vancouver open past 6:30pm, and today the latest they're open is 7pm - which means you pretty much have to start your load by 5pm, which doesn't work if you're working. When I lived in Toronto, I could go to the laundromat in the evening if I needed to. The one in my neighbourhood in Toronto was open 24/7. Here, if you need to go to a laundromat, it's after 5pm and you can't wait for the next day, you actually have to cross the border, as the nearest 24-hour laundromat is in Lynden, Washington of all places. And Bellingham has several open in the evening.

I'm fortunate that I have a laundry machine in my building (as in one washer and one dryer) but there have been multiple situations where the dryer was out of order and I had to use a laundromat.

As for things like coffee shops, my least favourite thing about living in New West is how early everything closes. If you want to meet someone for coffee in downtown New West after 8pm, your only choice is Tim Hortons. One of the coffee shops closes at 2pm and is closed weekends - and this is only a block from Douglas College too. Most others close at 5; the downtown Starbucks closes at 8pm, which is also oddly early. Some of the early closure hours existed before the pandemic too. (I worked for a suburban Starbucks in Ontario over a decade ago that closed at 11pm 7 nights a week)

Lastly, Return-It depots (for returning empty recyclables such as pop cans and beer bottles) have incredibly inconvenient hours for people who work (and again, it was like this pre-Covid). During the week, most have bankers' hours. As much as I disliked The Beer Store in Ontario, at least there you could return empties on weeknights and not wait in a big lineup on Saturday morning.

I would agree that even pre-pandemic, retailers closed early in the Lower Mainland. Moving from Atlantic Canada where 24/7 was fairly common at the time, it was a shock how early retailers closed in Vancouver. Back when the CDN$ was par and above par, would regularly fly out of Seattle vs. Vancouver. On those very early morning drives up I-5 back to Vancouver, would always stop at Haggen (which is a NW Washington grocery chain), as some of their stores were 24/7, at 1am or 2am in either Bellingham or Marysville to grab a sandwich from the deli; some wine and/or beer to avoid the limited selection at the duty free or gas stations in Blaine; plus grocery essentials (ie: milk, bread, etc.); rather than going home to an empty fridge as nothing would be open in Vancouver. Sadly, the Haggen stores are no longer independently owned (now part of Albertsons) and the 24/7 stores are now 5am-midnight.

[Wigs]

Prepandemic I used to typically go grocery shopping at Walmart after 9 pm and by the time I hit the checkouts closer to 10, the store was pretty much empty. And most of the people in there were popping in to buy one or two things, they didn't have a cart full of stuff like me. I can't imagine what it would be like after midnight if they were open then.

College/Uni Students, stoners, second shift (3-11pm-ish) workers, people with anxiety/social phobias or just can't stand crowds, and those that probably suffer from terrible insomnia. Not many, and not enough to justify 24 hours.

I occasionally did late night shopping as a student to take a break from studying or while working on long projects. Those are the folks I'd see at midnight-2am. The worker types looked like they just came from a factory or hospital (wearing scrubs).

As for Best Buy, I went for a job interview there many years ago and the supervisors were the biggest douchebags I've ever encountered in retail or otherwise.
Your job wasn't to help customers, it was to have them walk out of the store with as much Best Buy product as possible. Not just upselling, making the customer feel stupid and then getting them to buy as much crap as humanly possible.

An elderly person wants a router? Don't find out what he actually needs and sell them the basic, inexpensive one.
The one interviewer actually made this sound
2naim9F4010
And then shouted "WRONG answer!"
Get them to buy the most expensive gaming router at 4-5x the price that they don't need and sell them a new computer or peripheral accessories while you're at it.

I miss Future Shop. The only thing they'd try to upsell was the pointless extended warranty :haha:

[urbandreamer]

Across Quebec and Northern Ontario I couldn't find any gluten-free poutine. Bummer. So a few days ago I made it myself, but the curds and fries were mediocre - why didn't I stop at Thornloe Cheese on Hwy 11? :(

[manny_santos]

I would agree that even pre-pandemic, retailers closed early in the Lower Mainland. Moving from Atlantic Canada where 24/7 was fairly common at the time, it was a shock how early retailers closed in Vancouver. Back when the CDN$ was par and above par, would regularly fly out of Seattle vs. Vancouver. On those very early morning drives up I-5 back to Vancouver, would always stop at Haggen (which is a NW Washington grocery chain), as some of their stores were 24/7, at 1am or 2am in either Bellingham or Marysville to grab a sandwich from the deli; some wine and/or beer to avoid the limited selection at the duty free or gas stations in Blaine; plus grocery essentials (ie: milk, bread, etc.); rather than going home to an empty fridge as nothing would be open in Vancouver. Sadly, the Haggen stores are no longer independently owned (now part of Albertsons) and the 24/7 stores are now 5am-midnight.

I’m in North Vancouver this evening and I was thinking of going to a burger place around Lonsdale Quay. When I arrived I saw signs showing that they close dine-in nightly at 6:30pm.

It’s a Friday night in the middle of summer. There’s people everywhere. It’s almost as though they don’t want peoples’ money and want to fail.

As someone with a business degree…the massive rush to close early here on a summer Friday evening when there’s crowds of people around makes no sense.

It’s because of this that I have no sympathy for restaurants that complain about customers who come in right before closing. That’s not the customer’s problem. That’s the restaurant’s problem for having hours that don’t meet customer demand.

[esquire]

^ It must be a staffing issue. You see plenty of things like that now that you seldom saw before. Places closing early, turning customers away, etc.

For instance, the Winnipeg Sea Bears basketball team sells out the lower bowl of the arena but doesn't open up the upper bowl. Why do they turn paying fans away? I can only imagine that it is because they can't find enough people on short notice to staff the upper bowl. I don't think that would have been the case 5 years ago.

[Djeffery]

For instance, the Winnipeg Sea Bears basketball team sells out the lower bowl of the arena but doesn't open up the upper bowl. Why do they turn paying fans away? I can only imagine that it is because they can't find enough people on short notice to staff the upper bowl. I don't think that would have been the case 5 years ago.

Is that a staffing issue or a lease agreement to not open the upper bowl? They probably need a certain level of occupancy to justify the costs of opening the upper level and maybe they might rethink that for next season. The arena staffs the place, and they have no issue opening the upper level for concerts and I'm sure the people working Jets games wouldn't mind more hours in the hockey off season.

[esquire]

^ At one point it was common for entire arenas/stadiums in Canada to be open even if the crowd did not necessitate it. Now you often see entire seating levels tarped off, especially post-pandemic. Perhaps it is just the nature of the lease, but I have to think that staffing plays into it on some level. Sports teams/concert promoters don't typically like to turn paying customers away.

[WhipperSnapper]

Not opening up sections definitely saves money and should increase the value of tickets. The goal with everything is reducing costs to maximize profits than the number of paying customers. It makes total sense that a section will be more profitable the fuller it is. The advantage is it not only reduces unprifitable sections but, adds more people to the profitable sections.


Improved/ improving minimum wage standards may have something to do with the trend.

[cslusarc]

Retail-Insider reports that the Hudson's Bay store at Londonderry S.C. in Edmonton is downsizing and converting to a Clearance Outlet format.

Londonderry Shopping Centre In Edmonton Adding Tenants, Hudson’s Bay Store Downsizing And Remaining Open (https://retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2023/07/londonderry-shopping-centre-in-edmonton-adding-tenants-hudsons-bay-store-downsizing-and-remaining-open/)


And the biggest announcement as of late is the retention of the Hudson’s Bay department store at Londonderry, albeit in a smaller footprint than what has operated for decades in the mall. Hudson’s Bay is downsizing its store from about 118,000 square feet over two floors to about 60,000 square feet on one level, which will become a new outlet concept. The store downsizing will be completed by the beginning of September according to the landlord.

The Hudson’s Bay store will occupy then first level of the shopping centre, creating an opportunity upstairs for the landlord to re-set the mall’s tenant mix with multiple leasing opportunities. New tenants could include retail and services depending on what’s conceptualized and signed.

[SpongeG]

would a Zellers fit in the other floor or is it way too big for their new Zellers concept?

[esquire]

Londonderry always seemed like a somewhat marginal mall... I'm kind of surprised HBC lasted that long in there.

[Djeffery]

would a Zellers fit in the other floor or is it way too big for their new Zellers concept?

The first group of Zellers I believe were 10k max sq ft, and the more recent ones are much smaller than that I believe. I don't think HBC is ready to go with something either stand alone or quite large at this point.

[cslusarc]

Londonderry always seemed like a somewhat marginal mall...

I wonder how La Maison Simons is successful there?

[Wigs]

The first group of Zellers I believe were 10k max sq ft, and the more recent ones are much smaller than that I believe. I don't think HBC is ready to go with something either stand alone or quite large at this point.
Sounds like they should just build stores that are Giant Tiger sized.

Much easier to expand across Canada without investing in 65,000-100,000 sq ft stores and trying to directly compete with Walmart again.

[Wigs]

I wonder how La Maison Simons is successful there?

Once a major anchor leaves a shopping mall that's typically the early death knell, unless they find another anchor replacement or subdivide the store into multiple stores that the mall doesn't have.

[cslusarc]

Sounds like they should just build stores that are Giant Tiger sized.


I think HBC should open a fleet of Giant Tiger-sized stores too, including one on Henderson Hwy in Winnipeg – where two O.G. Zellers were located first at Northdale S.C and later in an ex-Kmart at River East Plaza.

[Loco101]

Talking about Giant Tiger, one thing many people where I live have noticed is that their prices for food items are lower than the major grocery chains including the discount ones.

It seems GT hasn't been on the bandwagon of price gouging/fixing. Their food selection is limited compared to a big supermarket but it's worth checking them out for deals and overall better prices.

[esquire]

I think HBC should open a fleet of Giant Tiger-sized stores too, including one on Henderson Hwy in Winnipeg – where two O.G. Zellers were located first at Northdale S.C and later in an ex-Kmart at River East Plaza.

Do you mean Giant Tiger-sized stores but with HBC-type merchandise? Or a Giant Tiger-sized discount chain like Zellers?

I get the impression that HBC is seriously whittling down the number of Hudson's Bay locations per city. One or two stores for most places, maybe a few for the largest cities, but definitely fewer than there used to be 25 years ago.

For example, between Eaton's, The Bay and Sears, Winnipeg used to have 12 full-line department stores scattered around town by my count. Now it's down to 2.

[cslusarc]

Do you mean Giant Tiger-sized stores but with HBC-type merchandise? Or a Giant Tiger-sized discount chain like Zellers?

I mean a Giant Tiger-sized store selling the Anko brand and other Zellers price point merchandise, including Hanes brand underwear/hosiery, Salton brand small appliances, Gerber and Munchkin brand stuff little kids and toys.

[esquire]

Man. I live a stone's throw from St. Vital Centre but I always forget there's a Zellers in there. I should go poke around there sometime.

[Wigs]

Talking about Giant Tiger, one thing many people where I live have noticed is that their prices for food items are lower than the major grocery chains including the discount ones.

It seems GT hasn't been on the bandwagon of price gouging/fixing. Their food selection is limited compared to a big supermarket but it's worth checking them out for deals and overall better prices.

yup. I used to live right near a GT so would check the weekly flyer and occasionally buy some small groceries from there, say tomatoes or mushrooms, a cucumber, celery, or oatmeal/cereal, junk food like chips if it was cheaper. Now I live far enough away that it's not worth using the gasoline to get there.

Food Basics is less than 2km away so that's my main grocery store.
I buy meat from a local butcher, and bread from local bakery. The quality of both is noticeably higher than grocery stores. Bread is slightly pricier, but many people don't realize but you can freeze bread and take out what you need.

[esquire]

When I lived downtown Giant Tiger was my place for "in between" grocery shops when I'd need some milk, bread, fruit, etc. to tide me over. Good selection and reasonably priced. But whenever I bring it up as a counterpoint in the "downtown Winnipeg has no grocery stores" conversations that occasionally pop up, some people act like I'm advocating for grocery shopping at Petro-Canada.

[Wigs]

Do you mean Giant Tiger-sized stores but with HBC-type merchandise? Or a Giant Tiger-sized discount chain like Zellers?

I get the impression that HBC is seriously whittling down the number of Hudson's Bay locations per city. One or two stores for most places, maybe a few for the largest cities, but definitely fewer than there used to be 25 years ago.

For example, between Eaton's, The Bay and Sears, Winnipeg used to have 12 full-line department stores scattered around town by my count. Now it's down to 2.

I mean a Giant Tiger-sized store selling the Anko brand and other Zellers price point merchandise, including Hanes brand underwear/hosiery, Salton brand small appliances, Gerber and Munchkin brand stuff little kids and toys.

It was upsetting when Sears shut down the 2 storey 1960s era store at Pen Centre in St. Catharines (Niagara is a peninsula). Even though I only go once a year, it'll be a sad day if they close the 2 storey Hudson's Bay store. Like Polo Park in Winnipeg, The Pen is one of the oldest large shopping malls in Canada and the largest between Buffalo and Toronto.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_shopping_malls_in_Canada

cslusarc, we're on the same page. Zellers has the opportunity to fill a niche with some different in-house or contracted brands, and cause GT and Walmart to compete on pricing of certain widely available items. Hopefully it will go better than Target's failed expansion :runaway:

[Ozabald]

When I lived downtown Giant Tiger was my place for "in between" grocery shops when I'd need some milk, bread, fruit, etc. to tide me over. Good selection and reasonably priced. But whenever I bring it up as a counterpoint in the "downtown Winnipeg has no grocery stores" conversations that occasionally pop up, some people act like I'm advocating for grocery shopping at Petro-Canada.

It is quite amusing how people in Winnipeg settle for the lowest common denominator. Every city in Canada promoting D/T living include full-service grocery stores as a key amenity. Except for Winnipeg; where Giant Tiger is considered to be a grocery store.

[le calmar]

But whenever I bring it up as a counterpoint in the "downtown Winnipeg has no grocery stores" conversations that occasionally pop up, some people act like I'm advocating for grocery shopping at Petro-Canada.

I used to tell that to the people who would say “Île de Hull” (which includes downtown Gatineau) is a food desert. It was true to some extent, but most of them had no idea GT had a sizeable grocery section with fresh produce and all. They ended up closing that location though.

[esquire]

It is quite amusing how people in Winnipeg settle for the lowest common denominator. Every city in Canada promoting D/T living include full-service grocery stores as a key amenity. Except for Winnipeg; where Giant Tiger is considered to be a grocery store.

Well, what do you call a place that sells milk, bread, produce, meats, packaged foods, etc.?

It's not a full service supermarket but neither is Walmart (when was the last time you saw a butcher or a baker at one?). Yet many people rely on it for their food.

It's a perfectly fine place to stock up "between shops".

[Wigs]

When I lived downtown Giant Tiger was my place for "in between" grocery shops when I'd need some milk, bread, fruit, etc. to tide me over. Good selection and reasonably priced. But whenever I bring it up as a counterpoint in the "downtown Winnipeg has no grocery stores" conversations that occasionally pop up, some people act like I'm advocating for grocery shopping at Petro-Canada.

probably because if it's not a full sized suburban grocery store people act like it's not a real store :D
Only the cities with massive amounts of downtown housing can support a full service grocer. I think in America the magic number grocery retailers want to see is around 20,000-25,000 downtown population.

Buffalo opened up a small local, independent grocer (the 2nd location) downtown adjacent to an affordable housing development that focuses first on fresh fruit and vegetables (as much NY State produce as possible) and a deli/grab n go items, people act like it it's a Whole Foods that opened up :haha:

[Ozabald]

probably because if it's not a full sized suburban grocery store people act like it's not a real store :D
Only the cities was massive amounts of downtown housing can support a full service grocer. I think in America the magic number grocery retailers want to see is around 20,000-25,000 downtown population.

Buffalo opened up a small local, independent grocer (the 2nd location) downtown adjacent to an affordable housing development that focuses first on fresh fruit and vegetables (as much NY State produce as possible) and a deli/grab n go items, people act like it it's a Whole Foods that opened up :haha:

Grand Forks, ND (two hours south of Winnipeg); population ~60K has a full service grocery store. There are many cities in Canada smaller than Winnipeg which support full-service D/T grocery stores. These include: Victoria, Kamloops, Kelowna, Prince George, Kingston, Halifax, Moncton; plus many more.

[esquire]

Grand Forks, ND (two hours south of Winnipeg); population ~60K has a full service grocery store. There are many cities in Canada smaller than Winnipeg which support full-service D/T grocery stores. These include: Victoria, Kamloops, Kelowna, Prince George, Kingston, Halifax, Moncton; plus many more.

I lived in downtown Winnipeg for several years and had no problem walking to get my groceries in and around the area (Family Foods, Safeway, Giant Tiger). Now there are many delivery options you can add to the mix. There may be reasons why someone doesn't want to live in downtown Winnipeg but lack of grocery options is not a compelling one IMO.

[Wigs]

Ozabald,
How you think and how retailers think in the 2020s are completely different things.

Most retailers in long established Metros won't bring grocery stores to downtown unless they exceed a certain population threshold. Also they see a market like downtown Winnipeg as challenging. Winnipeg has higher crime than national avg and downtown already went through Portage Place and other major retail failing/disappearing. Like an American peer city such as Buffalo, Winnipeg is one of those markets where the city would have to cajole the retailer into opening up.

[cslusarc]

https://www.vmcdn.ca/f/files/burnabynow/images/business/thebayclosinglougheed2.jpg

BurnabyNow reports:
End of an era: The first mall-based Hudson’s Bay is shutting down in Burnaby
Hudson's Bay Co. shaped Lougheed Town Centre as we know it. (https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/hudsons-bay-lougheed-mall-closing-burnaby-7355249)

This store is 125,400 sq. ft. and is leased.

[J.OT13]

I used to tell that to the people who would say “Île de Hull” (which includes downtown Gatineau) is a food desert. It was true to some extent, but most of them had no idea GT had a sizeable grocery section with fresh produce and all. They ended up closing that location though.

Fingers crossed that the Metro at W/E II, a few blocks south of where the Giant Tigre was, becomes reality.

On the HBC front, Ottawa-Gatineau has yet to lose any of its 5 locations. I'm quite surprised. Three of the five have Zellers. Haven't been yet.

[Wigs]

Fingers crossed that the Metro at W/E II, a few blocks south of where the Giant Tigre was, becomes reality.

On the HBC front, Ottawa-Gatineau has yet to lose any of its 5 locations. I'm quite surprised. Three of the five have Zellers. Haven't been yet.

As Ottawa has higher incomes than the Canadian average and the CMA has been rapidly growing maybe it can support all of them :shrug:

Or maybe the worst performer of the 5 might be eventually jettisoned

[casper]

As Ottawa has higher incomes than the Canadian average and the CMA has been rapidly growing maybe it can support all of them :shrug:

Or maybe the worst performer of the 5 might be eventually jettisoned

May also depend on the lease. If HSBC can't get out of the lease, then it comes down to looking at the books. If they are marginally profitable at the location or their losses are less than the lease payment they may chose to keep it open.

[Wigs]

May also depend on the lease. If HSBC can't get out of the lease, then it comes down to looking at the books. If they are marginally profitable at the location or their losses are less than the lease payment they may chose to keep it open.

True

[OTSkyline]

I used to tell that to the people who would say “Île de Hull” (which includes downtown Gatineau) is a food desert. It was true to some extent, but most of them had no idea GT had a sizeable grocery section with fresh produce and all. They ended up closing that location though.

They've just opened a brand new one there, at 9 Boul Montclair :cheers:
Much larger than the previous one and a much wider grocery section too

https://mma.prnewswire.com/media/2155344/Giant_Tiger_Stores_Limited_Tigre_G_ant_rugit_pour_vous___Gatinea.jpg?w=600

[Ozabald]

Ozabald,
How you think and how retailers think in the 2020s are completely different things.

Most retailers in long established Metros won't bring grocery stores to downtown unless they exceed a certain population threshold. Also they see a market like downtown Winnipeg as challenging. Winnipeg has higher crime than national avg and downtown already went through Portage Place and other major retail failing/disappearing. Like an American peer city such as Buffalo, Winnipeg is one of those markets where the city would have to cajole the retailer into opening up.

I agree with you 100%. The lack of a key amenity such as a full-service grocery store will blunt efforts to develop a sizeable residential population in D/T Winnipeg.

[cslusarc]

When I used live in 411 Cumberland, a condo tower facing the now splash pad @ Winnipeg's Central Park, I used to shop at the Extra Foods (now No Frills) down the street at Notre Dame & Langside.

[Wigs]

I agree with you 100%. The lack of a key amenity such as a full-service grocery store will blunt efforts to develop a sizeable residential population in D/T Winnipeg.

but unfortunately in the retail world it's not if you build it they will come. It's if the downtown develops an adequate population and reaches a certain population threshold, the retailers will come :haha:

[Wigs]

When I used live in 411 Cumberland, a condo tower facing the now splash pad @ Winnipeg's Central Park, I used to shop at the Extra Foods (now No Frills) down the street at Notre Dame & Langside.

No Frills used to be a solid discount grocery store. Then the pandemic and inflation happened and the Weston family and Loblaws board used it to shaft their customer base while the big 3 grocery chains are raking in record profits. Meanwhile the typical Canadian is like "I'm spending double or more on groceries than 3-5 years ago"

[Harrison]

Once a major anchor leaves a shopping mall that's typically the early death knell, unless they find another anchor replacement or subdivide the store into multiple stores that the mall doesn't have.

I have considered that Simons location to be the anchor for Londonderry, as Simons in general is a much better store overall than Hudson's Bay. I actually prefer that Simons location to West Ed, as it's not as hectic and better laid-out (and also much closer to my house).

[Wigs]

I have considered that Simons location to be the anchor for Londonderry, as Simons in general is a much better store overall than Hudson's Bay. I actually prefer that Simons location to West Ed, as it's not as hectic and better laid-out (and also much closer to my house).

I'd definitely consider Simons an anchor. Edmonton has 2 and Calgary only has 1! I love the men's shirts I've purchased there and so does my brother. I've only purchased online.

We don't even have one in Niagara despite roughly 500,000 people in the region. Heck even Hamilton doesn't have one and they're around 600,000 or 1.1M combined Hamilton-Niagara :D
The closest one is Mississauga at Square One over an hour drive for most of Niagara depending on Toronto traffic--which is getting worse by the month.

[whatnext]

No Frills used to be a solid discount grocery store. Then the pandemic and inflation happened and the Weston family and Loblaws board used it to shaft their customer base while the big 3 grocery chains are raking in record profits. Meanwhile the typical Canadian is like "I'm spending double or more on groceries than 3-5 years ago"

I own Loblaws shares and I see no problem with that. :tup:

[Wigs]

I own Loblaws shares and I see no problem with that. :tup:

Martin Shkreli has entered the chat

[harls]

They've just opened a brand new one there, at 9 Boul Montclair :cheers:
Much larger than the previous one and a much wider grocery section too

https://mma.prnewswire.com/media/2155344/Giant_Tiger_Stores_Limited_Tigre_G_ant_rugit_pour_vous___Gatinea.jpg?w=600

That is technically not on the Island of Hull ;)

(also, I didn't know that they moved into the old Aubainerie).