Canadian Retail Thread

[Acajack]

Quebec City retailer La Maison Simons is pretty aggressive in its expansion.

After Edmonton (already open), Ottawa in 2016 and Toronto likely getting two stores fairly soon, next Monday they will announce a new store for 2015 at Les Promenades Gatineau (formerly Les Promenades de l'Outaouais).

Simons at this mall had been rumoured for years but when they announced they were going to Rideau Centre (less than 10 km away in downtown Ottawa) most people thought Gatineau wouldn't get a Simons for a while, if ever.

Les Promenades was bought a year or so ago by Oxford and apparently they are quite aggressive about turning into a higher end mall like Yorkdale in Toronto.

Still, it's surprising given the size of the market here that they are building two new stores so close together.

They have two stores in Quebec City (old town and Place Laurier mall) that are only 7 km apart but Simons has been a retail icon there for centuries and people in Quebec City are also arguably more fashion-oriented than people in Ottawa-Gatineau.

[eternallyme]

Quebec City retailer La Maison Simons is pretty aggressive in its expansion.

After Edmonton (already open), Ottawa in 2016 and Toronto likely getting two stores fairly soon, next Monday they will announce a new store for 2015 at Les Promenades Gatineau (formerly Les Promenades de l'Outaouais).

Simons at this mall had been rumoured for years but when they announced they were going to Rideau Centre (less than 10 km away in downtown Ottawa) most people thought Gatineau wouldn't get a Simons for a while, if ever.

Les Promenades was bought a year or so ago by Oxford and apparently they are quite aggressive about turning into a higher end mall like Yorkdale in Toronto.

Still, it's surprising given the size of the market here that they are building two new stores so close together.

They have two stores in Quebec City (old town and Place Laurier mall) that are only 7 km apart but Simons has been a retail icon there for centuries and people in Quebec City are also arguably more fashion-oriented than people in Ottawa-Gatineau.

They might want to look east next perhaps, Moncton or Halifax? Are they big enough to support such?

[kevinbottawa]

Les Promenades was bought a year or so ago by Oxford and apparently they are quite aggressive about turning into a higher end mall like Yorkdale in Toronto.

Are they really trying to make it higher end like Yorkdale? A previous article said they were trying to compete with St. Laurent. Then again that was before they announced an additional $30 million.

[Acajack]

Are they really trying to make it higher end like Yorkdale? A previous article said they were trying to compete with St. Laurent. Then again that was before they announced an additional $30 million.

The VP of Oxford said this:

M. Brouillard affirme que les Gatinois auront un centre commercial de la même qualité que celui de Yorkdale, à Toronto, dans lequel la compagnie investit 300 millions $.

[LeftCoaster]

Landlords will always talk a big game, no one ever says they are trying to make a mediocre product. Whether they put their money where their mouth is remains to be seen.

Simons will continue their aggressive expansion, they just announced a store in Park Royal in West Vancouver and have many more in the pipeline.

[Acajack]

Landlords will always talk a big game, no one ever says they are trying to make a mediocre product. Whether they put their money where their mouth is remains to be seen.

Simons will continue their aggressive expansion, they just announced a store in Park Royal in West Vancouver and have many more in the pipeline.

My sense is they want to secure their place as a cross-Canada player before the big American chains that are looking at Canada gain too much of a foothold.

[LeftCoaster]

Absolutely. There is a very rare opportunity in Canada with the collapse of sears and they are smart to aggressively pursue the void left behind.

That said they fill a slightly different niche and can very effectively operate in a centre alongside Sears.

[Acajack]

They might want to look east next perhaps, Moncton or Halifax? Are they big enough to support such?

Sherbrooke has a Simons and its metro has 200,000 people. Its wider trading area is certainly smaller than both Moncton's (even if it is a smaller metro) and Halifax's (double the size of Sherbrooke in the metro only).

Of course, there is of course the name recognition that Simons benefits from anywhere it opens in Quebec, which gives any new store in the province a good boost to start off with.

[MonctonRad]

Sherbrooke has a Simons and its metro has 200,000 people. Its wider trading area is certainly smaller than both Moncton's (even if it is a smaller metro) and Halifax's (double the size of Sherbrooke in the metro only).

Of course, there is of course the name recognition that Simons benefits from anywhere it opens in Quebec, which gives any new store in the province a good boost to start off with.

With Sears about to go belly up, there likely will be new opportunities for Simons in the country.

There is a Sears at Champlain Place here in Moncton. It might be an attractive location for Simons to consider. The fact that the CMA is 33% francophone might help.

[Acajack]

With Sears about to go belly up, there likely will be new opportunities for Simons in the country.

There is a Sears at Champlain Place here in Moncton. It might be an attractive location for Simons to consider. The fact that the CMA is 33% francophone might help.

In spite of the metro size gap, Moncton is actually a lot closer in size to Halifax as a potential retail market than many people realize.

[Acajack]

With Sears about to go belly up, there likely will be new opportunities for Simons in the country.



The best Sears locations will likely be snapped up by Simons or someone else, but a quick search shows there are almost 200 Sears stores in Canada.

If the entire chain shuts down, a whole lot of those are likely to remain vacant for quite some time without any takers. (I am thinking for example of the Sears in Les Galeries de Hull, which is a distant second when it comes to malls in Gatineau).

I suppose many of them will be redeveloped for some other type of use other than a department store.

[MonctonRad]

In spite of the metro size gap, Moncton is actually a lot closer in size to Halifax as a potential retail market than many people realize.

Indeed, we had H&M in Moncton for a couple of years before Ottawa did. Champlain Place hosts a lot of higher end retailers that (in the Maritimes) would only be found in Halifax (Eddie Bauer, GAP/GAP Kids, Sephora, MAC, Swarovski, Coach, Fossil, Pandora etc). They are also clearing out space in Champlain for Victoria's Secret & Pink too. Simons would fit right in.

It was announced just in the last couple of months that both Bass Pro Shops and Cabelas are opening in Moncton by 2015. We will be the only market in the country with both stores.

[Nouvellecosse]

In spite of the metro size gap, Moncton is actually a lot closer in size to Halifax as a potential retail market than many people realize.

Based on?

[MonctonRad]

Based on?

Based on being a lot closer to the rest of NB and PEI than Halifax is. Halifax is larger and will always have stores that we don't have, but we are a relatively close second and we are more convenient to (nearly) half the population of the Maritimes than Halifax is.

[Nouvellecosse]

But those cities also have their own retail markets don't they? There's a big difference between attracting occasional out of town visitors who have to drive several hours, and having that population in the same metro area 10-20 min away. Sorry, but I just don't see how its comparable.

[ue]

Quebec City retailer La Maison Simons is pretty aggressive in its expansion.

After Edmonton (already open), Ottawa in 2016 and Toronto likely getting two stores fairly soon, next Monday they will announce a new store for 2015 at Les Promenades Gatineau (formerly Les Promenades de l'Outaouais).

Simons at this mall had been rumoured for years but when they announced they were going to Rideau Centre (less than 10 km away in downtown Ottawa) most people thought Gatineau wouldn't get a Simons for a while, if ever.

Les Promenades was bought a year or so ago by Oxford and apparently they are quite aggressive about turning into a higher end mall like Yorkdale in Toronto.

Still, it's surprising given the size of the market here that they are building two new stores so close together.

They have two stores in Quebec City (old town and Place Laurier mall) that are only 7 km apart but Simons has been a retail icon there for centuries and people in Quebec City are also arguably more fashion-oriented than people in Ottawa-Gatineau.

Do you think the Eaton Centre Sears in Toronto would go to Simons? I think it'd be great to have there, to have a profitable Canadian department store on what is supposed to be Downtown Toronto's main intersection (or at least it's trying to be, some may argue it isn't). But it seems like Nordstrom is snatching up a lot of old Sears leases (Vancouver, Ottawa, Calgary). Not that I wouldn't mind a Nordstrom there, it'd just be nice to have a Canadian department store on Yonge and Dundas. Nordstrom can go in Yorkville or Yorkdale or Sherway Gardens.

[kwoldtimer]

Do you think the Eaton Centre Sears in Toronto would go to Simons? I think it'd be great to have there, to have a profitable Canadian department store on what is supposed to be Downtown Toronto's main intersection (or at least it's trying to be, some may argue it isn't). But it seems like Nordstrom is snatching up a lot of old Sears leases (Vancouver, Ottawa, Calgary). Not that I wouldn't mind a Nordstrom there, it'd just be nice to have a Canadian department store on Yonge and Dundas. Nordstrom can go in Yorkville or Yorkdale or Sherway Gardens.

That would seem awfully ambitious, but it would be cool to see a Simons flagship store in that location. Or, how about both Nordstroms and Simons?

[NBNYer]

They have two stores in Quebec City (old town and Place Laurier mall) that are only 7 km apart but Simons has been a retail icon there for centuries and people in Quebec City are also arguably more fashion-oriented than people in Ottawa-Gatineau.

When I lived in Quebec City, there was also a Simons in Les Galeries de la Capitale. Did it close?

[vanatox]

When I lived in Quebec City, there was also a Simons in Les Galeries de la Capitale. Did it close?

No, still there. You could say that Quebec City has 2 and a half Simons, because the one in Vieux-Québec is much smaller than the other two.

[Southcore]

Saks Fifth Ave to open at Yonge and Bloor, where the Bay currently sits. They are looking to open the second largest Saks in the world there, double the size of nearby Holt Renfrew (~185K sq ft):

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/saks-appeal-hbc-head-richard-baker-bets-canadians-are-dying-to-go-deluxe/article15633445/?page=1

[ue]

That would seem awfully ambitious, but it would be cool to see a Simons flagship store in that location. Or, how about both Nordstroms and Simons?

Agreed, but it would be great brand exposure. I couldn't see Nordstrom and Simons opening next to each other like that, though. Perhaps in the same mall, but not the same spot in said mall. It would be like having McDonalds and Burger King right next to each other, except on a far grander scale.

[J.OT13]

Agreed, but it would be great brand exposure. I couldn't see Nordstrom and Simons opening next to each other like that, though. Perhaps in the same mall, but not the same spot in said mall. It would be like having McDonalds and Burger King right next to each other, except on a far grander scale.

What, you don't have fast food boulevards somewhere up north? Seeing both McD's and Burger King (and a whole lot of other fast food joints) next door to each other is quite common in Ottawa-Gatineau.

That said, I agree that two such big department stores next to one another might seem a little off. Usually you want your anchors at different ends. In Ottawa, Simons will be at the north east corner of the Rideau Centre and Nordstrom at the south east end.

[ue]

More like out west (Edmonton) ;). Yes, same vicinity and perhaps in a suburban area with vast parking lots separating buildings, it does happen. I'm thinking more along the lines of say Yonge St having a storefront occupied by a McDonalds, then next door is Wendys, and next door to that is Burger King.

[casper]

More like out west (Edmonton) ;). Yes, same vicinity and perhaps in a suburban area with vast parking lots separating buildings, it does happen. I'm thinking more along the lines of say Yonge St having a storefront occupied by a McDonalds, then next door is Wendys, and next door to that is Burger King.

In the "old days" pre-mall this was closer to being the norm. In Vancouver the Bay and Eatons (Sears) were across the street from each other. It was not unusual to have department stores across the street from each other.


The typical modern day mall is fashion store, next to fashion store, next to fashion store.

[ue]

^ Right, but those clothing stores generally have different "images" and attract different clientele or the same clientele looking for different things. Simons and Nordstrom have similar clienteles, making a corner oversaturated if they were next to each other. It would be less of an issue if it were say Simons and Sears (not that they would likely set up shop next to each other).

[J.OT13]

More like out west (Edmonton) ;). Yes, same vicinity and perhaps in a suburban area with vast parking lots separating buildings, it does happen. I'm thinking more along the lines of say Yonge St having a storefront occupied by a McDonalds, then next door is Wendys, and next door to that is Burger King.

In that case, I agree. In downtown Ottawa, we have Tim's and McD's next to one another, but not lines of burger joints, although we do have a lot of coffee places and shawarma restaurants and Shopper's Drug Marts in close proximity.

As for casper's comment about big department stores in the old days opening near each other, we had that too. Rideau (4-5 large ones on a kilometer stretch) and Sparks (don't know the exact number, byt I would say at least half a dozen on two blocks) were jam packed with department stores. The street's themselves had a similar function as malls today.

[LeftCoaster]

^ Right, but those clothing stores generally have different "images" and attract different clientele or the same clientele looking for different things. Simons and Nordstrom have similar clienteles, making a corner oversaturated if they were next to each other. It would be less of an issue if it were say Simons and Sears (not that they would likely set up shop next to each other).

Retailers, even fashion retailers like to cluster. Often they will have co-tenancy clauses stipulating that they need a certain amount or like tenants (often named) in the mall or even in close proximity.

[HTania]

Black Friday is getting popular in Canada. Lots of people takes today off for shopping. Only a few people on my floor.

[eternallyme]

Black Friday is getting popular in Canada. Lots of people takes today off for shopping. Only a few people on my floor.

It's also growing in popularity overseas, such as in the UK and Australia as well, so it is becoming global.

The key year IMO was 2010(?) when Canadian retailers were blindsided as Canadians flocked south in droves on Black Friday and 2010 was a bad Christmas for Canadian retail mainly because of that. Realizing it had expanded beyond the US, there is nothing to stop it from crossing oceans as well.

[ue]

^ Interesting. The Canadian invasion makes sense (though I don't support it), but I never thought about it spreading overseas too, especially so soon after Canada started partaking in it. Last year's Black Friday didn't seem anywhere near as significant as this years. I wonder how long it'll take before it eclipses Boxing Day/Week.

I think Black Friday was less necessary here in Alberta, though, which may explain why years prior were more lacklustre in sales and events. The bulk of our population (Edmonton-Calgary corridor) is, unlike every other province, more than a few hours from the border and what is across the border (Montana) isn't exactly a retail goldmine like Bellingham or Buffalo are. Couple that with Alberta's high disposable income, and the sales are less necessary here.

Were the Black Friday sales also a bit lackluster the past few years in other parts of Canada too?

[kwoldtimer]

^ Interesting. The Canadian invasion makes sense (though I don't support it), but I never thought about it spreading overseas too, especially so soon after Canada started partaking in it. Last year's Black Friday didn't seem anywhere near as significant as this years. I wonder how long it'll take before it eclipses Boxing Day/Week.

I think Black Friday was less necessary here in Alberta, though, which may explain why years prior were more lacklustre in sales and events. The bulk of our population (Edmonton-Calgary corridor) is, unlike every other province, more than a few hours from the border and what is across the border (Montana) isn't exactly a retail goldmine like Bellingham or Buffalo are. Couple that with Alberta's high disposable income, and the sales are less necessary here.

Were the Black Friday sales also a bit lackluster the past few years in other parts of Canada too?


Black Friday is huge in Panama - 30,000 international tourists were expected to arrive in Panama City to shop. It has also caught on in El Salvador.

[eternallyme]

^ Interesting. The Canadian invasion makes sense (though I don't support it), but I never thought about it spreading overseas too, especially so soon after Canada started partaking in it. Last year's Black Friday didn't seem anywhere near as significant as this years. I wonder how long it'll take before it eclipses Boxing Day/Week.

I think Black Friday was less necessary here in Alberta, though, which may explain why years prior were more lacklustre in sales and events. The bulk of our population (Edmonton-Calgary corridor) is, unlike every other province, more than a few hours from the border and what is across the border (Montana) isn't exactly a retail goldmine like Bellingham or Buffalo are. Couple that with Alberta's high disposable income, and the sales are less necessary here.

Were the Black Friday sales also a bit lackluster the past few years in other parts of Canada too?

Ontario and British Columbia are likely most entrenched due to the close proximity to cross-border shopping and large populations.

[vid]

It's not Black Friday, it's Black November. The hype was on as soon as we threw out our pumpkins.

And starting Tuesday, once we get past "Cyber Monday", is "Boxing Month".

It's a great way for capitalism to completely remove any mention of holidays altogether. "No holidays, just boxing day. Please shop here."

[TownGuy]

I think Black Friday was less necessary here in Alberta, though, which may explain why years prior were more lacklustre in sales and events. The bulk of our population (Edmonton-Calgary corridor) is, unlike every other province, more than a few hours from the border and what is across the border (Montana) isn't exactly a retail goldmine like Bellingham or Buffalo are. Couple that with Alberta's high disposable income, and the sales are less necessary here.

Really? People don't require sales in Alberta cause they have that much money coming out their ass? Ha.

It more than likely has everything to do with the points you made prior to that. The main reason it became a thing in southern Ontario is customers were being lost to the easily accessible US.

[bikegypsy]

They have two stores in Quebec City (old town and Place Laurier mall) that are only 7 km apart but Simons has been a retail icon there for centuries and people in Quebec City are also arguably more fashion-oriented than people in Ottawa-Gatineau.

That's also what I thought until I had to work in Quebec City. But no, this is not the case. It's just another myth. Outside Montreal and Toronto, the fashion style of most canadians is pretty much the same everywhere: outdoorsy, comfortable and low.

[someone123]

Retailers, even fashion retailers like to cluster. Often they will have co-tenancy clauses stipulating that they need a certain amount or like tenants (often named) in the mall or even in close proximity.

A lot of retail stuff is counter-intuitive. I think the "clustering" advantage is that it turns a retail area into more of a destination than it otherwise would be. The payoff to being the best place in down to shop instead of second-best is huge, so it can be worth the increased competition.

A lot of post-war urban retail streets ended up on the wrong side of this effect, so they face a chicken-and-egg problem. They don't have a lot to draw people in so the customers don't come and retailers don't want to set up shop there. It makes sense that adding lots of residents is one of the more reliable ways of breaking this cycle.

Another counter-intuitive retail thing is when businesses close down because landlords jack up rents in response to increased demand for retail space. It's common to hear people say "this street is so bad that even <low value business X> can't survive!" when the reality is that the business has been pushed out because the area is too successful.

[SpongeG]

Really? People don't require sales in Alberta cause they have that much money coming out their ass? Ha.

It more than likely has everything to do with the points you made prior to that. The main reason it became a thing in southern Ontario is customers were being lost to the easily accessible US.

i moved to albeta from bc and have way more disposable incom now and can buy what i want but still being a cheap ass sales are good but i do tend to buy more of what i want rather than waiting for the sale price

[SpongeG]

i was just at simons in edmonton, its a great store, does have some high end like versace, marc by marc jacobs, dsquared etc. but i find compared to nordstroms it really seems to pack its space with cheaper house brand stuff which is nice but definately makes it different enough to nordstroms which seems to have very few house brands and probably has a higher end price overall compared to simons nd thusly i don't really see them being that much of a threat to each other

i didn't notice any cosmetics or fragrances at simons or even shoes but was in a rush as my friend was giving me hate for making him shop lol so ditched out quicker than i would have wanted

[miketoronto]

i was just at simons in edmonton, its a great store, does have some high end like versace, marc by marc jacobs, dsquared etc. but i find compared to nordstroms it really seems to pack its space with cheaper house brand stuff which is nice but definately makes it different enough to nordstroms which seems to have very few house brands and probably has a higher end price overall compared to simons nd thusly i don't really see them being that much of a threat to each other

i didn't notice any cosmetics or fragrances at simons or even shoes but was in a rush as my friend was giving me hate for making him shop lol so ditched out quicker than i would have wanted

Simons was never considered a high end store like Nordstroms. If anything it is known for bringing affordable fashion to the masses. Yes some stores do have high end designer names, but overall Simons is all about their house brand which is what makes it unique. I never buy anything at Simons but their house brand, because the other names you can get anywhere.
But Simons' house brand stuff is truly unique, and I always get asked where I get my nice clothing from when I wear Simons clothes. My American co-workers especially find Simons clothing interesting, and always ask where my clothes are from.

I do fear however that as Simons expands to the rest of Canada, they are going to lose some of their cutting edge unique designs. I say this because Simons apparently has had to adjust their clothing for Edmonton where they are less fashion forward and larger than Quebec people. That to me would be boring to have a dumbed down Simons.

[manny_santos]

So buying groceries online is a thing now? This is something that people really do?

Grocery Checkout (www.grocerycheckout.com) has been serving London, Ont. for at least 6 years. It was actually born out of a project in a business class at Western.

The ironic thing is that Canadians used to get milk and bread delivered to their door decades ago, so this is nothing new for people of a certain age.

[shreddog]

...I say this because Simons apparently has had to adjust their clothing for Edmonton where they are less fashion forward and larger than Quebec people...Do you have a real source for that??? I only ask because I had a similar conversation with a friend of mine recently who is the design head for a Montreal based fashion manufacturing/retailer - namely do they target product differently for different markets. After she stopped laughing incessantly about how it would be impossible to manufacture for different markets (the price associated with the SCM alone would kill it) she also indicated that their "brand" is their IP and they would never change their IP for any market, they'd rather pull out. Seeing as Edmonton is at best 4% of the overall Canadian market I can't believe that anyone would do this.

Also, according to StatsCanada (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/health82b-eng.htm), Albertans have the same BMI/obesity rates as Ontarians. So if Simons is maker larger clothes, it would be for those fatties in Ontario who would make up a market 4 times larger than the fatties in Alberta.

Sorry, but unless you can back this up with a statement from Simons on this, I'm calling BS on your claim!!

:cheers:

[vid]

I heard that when they play The National in Alberta, they add more explosions and naked chicks because Albertans don't pay attention to the TV otherwise. :frog:

[shreddog]

Really!?!?!? I gotta start watching me dat der National!! ;)

[ibz]

Do you have a real source for that??? I only ask because I had a similar conversation with a friend of mine recently who is the design head for a Montreal based fashion manufacturing/retailer - namely do they target product differently for different markets. After she stopped laughing incessantly about how it would be impossible to manufacture for different markets (the price associated with the SCM alone would kill it) she also indicated that their "brand" is their IP and they would never change their IP for any market, they'd rather pull out. Seeing as Edmonton is at best 4% of the overall Canadian market I can't believe that anyone would do this.

Also, according to StatsCanada (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/health82b-eng.htm), Albertans have the same BMI/obesity rates as Ontarians. So if Simons is maker larger clothes, it would be for those fatties in Ontario who would make up a market 4 times larger than the fatties in Alberta.

Sorry, but unless you can back this up with a statement from Simons on this, I'm calling BS on your claim!!

:cheers:

From an earlier news article:

"Mr. Simons is making small adjustments for his Edmonton store. It will carry about 10 to 18 per cent more large and extra-large sizes, and that amount fewer small and extra small sizes, after his research found those differences between the Edmonton and Quebec markets."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/quebec-retailer-maison-simons-takes-its-eclectic-style-west/article4778740/

[kwoldtimer]

So they are not adjusting their sizes, just carrying more of the larger sizes to fit the market, which makes sense.

I imagine (or hope) they are also carrying a bit less of the "Euro-twink" styles that I've seen at the downtown Montreal store. Some of that stuff would be seen as rather outré in Canada outside Quebec.

[shreddog]

..."Mr. Simons is making small adjustments for his Edmonton store. It will carry about 10 to 18 per cent more large and extra-large sizes, and that amount fewer small and extra small sizes, after his research found those differences between the Edmonton and Quebec markets."...Inventory management is completely different than "adjust their clothing for Edmonton where they are less fashion forward and larger than Quebec people" which is what Mike said. They are NOT changing design or manufacturing, just inventory management. And BTW, where does Mr Simon say that people in E-town are less fashion forward?? Or was that just creative license by the author of the post??;)

[miketoronto]

already posted above

[miketoronto]

Inventory management is completely different than "adjust their clothing for Edmonton where they are less fashion forward and larger than Quebec people" which is what Mike said. They are NOT changing design or manufacturing, just inventory management. And BTW, where does Mr Simon say that people in E-town are less fashion forward?? Or was that just creative license by the author of the post??;)

I think they also said they were bringing in more of their rugged clothing items than the funky stuff you see in Quebec.

I never said they made a whole different clothing line. Just they are adjusting the assortment.

Sorry, but you gotta admit. Edmonton is no fashion mecca like Toronto or Montreal.

[vid]

Oh, I get it! You're using a store's merchandise assortment to insult a city of 1.3 million people based on their clothing preferences! OK!

They should have stocked the exact same clothing as the Quebec stores, seeing as how Quebec culture and Alberta culture are 100% identical!

[miketoronto]

Oh, I get it! You're using a store's merchandise assortment to insult a city of 1.3 million people based on their clothing preferences! OK!

They should have stocked the exact same clothing as the Quebec stores, seeing as how Quebec culture and Alberta culture are 100% identical!

No. I am just saying that when a store like that becomes national, it is going to lose some of its uniqueness and coolness as it adapts to other areas.

[vid]

Right, because there is nothing unique or cool about Alberta, and if there was, Simons certainly isn't the company to find and take advantage of it.

[MolsonExport]

http://www.evoolution.ca/images/headers/contact/contact_header_2.jpg
www.evoolution.ca

[bikegypsy]

http://www.evoolution.ca/images/headers/contact/contact_header_2.jpg
www.evoolution.ca

:tup:This will be a great addition to the foody landscape in Edmonton. I know the ones in Montreal and Ottawa are doing brisk business.

[ue]

LOL Mike.

Actually, I think I read somewhere (C2E?) that Simons found Edmonton more fashion forward than people give credit for and that was part of what enticed them about expanding into the Edmonton market (vs Calgary or Vancouver or Winnipeg).

I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but they did their research and found Edmonton to be a viable market. No, Edmonton is not Quebec City, but that doesn't mean we don't appreciate fashion at all here. Clearly the store is successful thus far.

People like to scoff at Alberta at any chance they can get. Chalk it up to Eastern smugness (sorry, Central Canadian). There is lots of cool stuff about Quebec and Ontario, I'm willing to concede, I don't get why it's so hard to reciprocate. Recently, I've had to deal with whiney ex-Torontonians complain that our bus system isn't exactly like Toronto's in terms of frequency and expansiveness. Give me a fucking break. At least we don't use tokens.

I love Toronto, Montreal, etc as much as any Ontarian or Quebecois, but the Windsor-Quebec corridor isn't the only place deserving of nice things in this country.

Edit: And fashion meccas? Toronto and Montreal are pretty fashion forward, but I wouldn't exactly call them fashion meccas like New York, LA, London, Paris, Berlin, Tokyo, and Hong Kong are.

[harls]

People like to scoff at Alberta at any chance they can get. Chalk it up to Eastern smugness (sorry, Central Canadian).

No, that's just our Mike. Our sweet ol' mike. 2 guys from east of the Manitoba border came to Edmonton's defense, by the way ( I read Molson's response that way.. an olive bar in Edmonton? zomg! )


"Inventory management" sounds pretty lame and euphemistic. an almost passive aggressive knee-jerk reaction by Simons. It reeks of damage control - much like McDonald's putting out a press release about how tasty and "fun" the McRib was after that image of a compressed pork snowmobile tread started to circulate.

[Acajack]

No, that's just our Mike. Our sweet ol' mike. 2 guys from east of the Manitoba border came to Edmonton's defense, by the way ( I read Molson's response that way.. an olive bar in Edmonton? zomg! )


"Inventory management" sounds pretty lame and euphemistic. an almost passive aggressive knee-jerk reaction by Simons. It reeks of damage control - much like McDonald's putting out a press release about how tasty and "fun" the McRib was after that image of a compressed pork snowmobile tread started to circulate.

Yeah, if I was Simons I wouldn't have said that publicly. Even if it was true.

[Acajack]

That's also what I thought until I had to work in Quebec City. But no, this is not the case. It's just another myth. Outside Montreal and Toronto, the fashion style of most canadians is pretty much the same everywhere: outdoorsy, comfortable and low.

Can't agree. People in Quebec City certainly don't dress like those in Winnipeg or Hamilton. Or even Ottawa really.

[north 42]

There is no other city in Canada that is more of a fashion mecca than Montreal! It is far above any other Canadian city in terms of having the most fashionable residents, and their shopping is the best as far as I'm concerned as well.

[Acajack]

There is no other city in Canada that is more of a fashion mecca than Montreal! It is far above any other Canadian city in terms of having the most fashionable residents, and their shopping is the best as far as I'm concerned as well.

Totally agree, but this is bound to provoke some reactions on here! ;)

[Acajack]

Simons was never considered a high end store like Nordstroms. If anything it is known for bringing affordable fashion to the masses. Yes some stores do have high end designer names, but overall Simons is all about their house brand which is what makes it unique. I never buy anything at Simons but their house brand, because the other names you can get anywhere.
But Simons' house brand stuff is truly unique, and I always get asked where I get my nice clothing from when I wear Simons clothes. My American co-workers especially find Simons clothing interesting, and always ask where my clothes are from.

I do fear however that as Simons expands to the rest of Canada, they are going to lose some of their cutting edge unique designs. I say this because Simons apparently has had to adjust their clothing for Edmonton where they are less fashion forward and larger than Quebec people. That to me would be boring to have a dumbed down Simons.

Your post about Simons in-house brands reminded me of how people in Quebec are not as big on brand names as people in the rest of Canada or the States. People in Quebec are much more about what a garment looks like than whether it is brand X, Y or Z.

In many cases this does lead them to buy cheap stuff that doesn't last long but they don't seem to care.

[SpongeG]

i've always found Edmonton to be fashion forward, far more fashion forward than Vancouver. Vancouver u can still find most girls wearing uggs and yoga pants and huys wearing puffy north face jackets.

walking around WEM and edmonton centre over the weekend i saw loads of fashionable/trendy people

[SpongeG]

Simons was never considered a high end store like Nordstroms. If anything it is known for bringing affordable fashion to the masses. Yes some stores do have high end designer names, but overall Simons is all about their house brand which is what makes it unique. I never buy anything at Simons but their house brand, because the other names you can get anywhere.
But Simons' house brand stuff is truly unique, and I always get asked where I get my nice clothing from when I wear Simons clothes. My American co-workers especially find Simons clothing interesting, and always ask where my clothes are from.

I do fear however that as Simons expands to the rest of Canada, they are going to lose some of their cutting edge unique designs. I say this because Simons apparently has had to adjust their clothing for Edmonton where they are less fashion forward and larger than Quebec people. That to me would be boring to have a dumbed down Simons.

the point was borught up earlier that simons and nordstroms shouldn't open next to each other where as i disagree they are nothing alike

i find simons to be like a giant H&M with a few designer brand names thrown in

overall its a great store but its not a full fledged department store in my eyes

[ue]

^ I think the yoga pants trend may be a West Coast thing. They're quite popular in LA right now too. Ugg boots though...

No, that's just our Mike. Our sweet ol' mike. 2 guys from east of the Manitoba border came to Edmonton's defense, by the way ( I read Molson's response that way.. an olive bar in Edmonton? zomg! )


"Inventory management" sounds pretty lame and euphemistic. an almost passive aggressive knee-jerk reaction by Simons. It reeks of damage control - much like McDonald's putting out a press release about how tasty and "fun" the McRib was after that image of a compressed pork snowmobile tread started to circulate.

Yeah, I know. Not all of you guys are like that, there are just a handful of you guys who ruin the image of the rest. Although I'm willing to look past that, I know many aren't and it is a root cause of Western alienation. It's why people would rather visit Salt Lake City than Toronto.

[WhipperSnapper]

Yoga pants are the greatest fashion trend of all time. Let it last forever.

[Nouvellecosse]

^ I think the yoga pants trend may be a West Coast thing. They're quite popular in LA right now too. Ugg boots though...



Yeah, I know. Not all of you guys are like that, there are just a handful of you guys who ruin the image of the rest. Although I'm willing to look past that, I know many aren't and it is a root cause of Western alienation. It's why people would rather visit Salt Lake City than Toronto.

Other than avid skiers and the odd Mormon, I can't fathom anyone like that. Doesn't mesh with any concept of reality I could ever imagine or conceive of. :shrug:

[ue]

^ Haha, maybe SLC was a bit of an exaggeration...Houston, Denver, San Diego, Phoenix, Chicago, Dallas, Santa Fe...other examples I can think of off of the top of my head. That being said, I know some people who have made the effort to go to SLC and haven't been to Toronto and don't show much interest in going anytime soon.

Of course, part of this is the fact that Toronto doesn't have an easily identifiable brand like Vancouver or Montreal, which are more obvious destinations to many (which is unfortunate because I think Toronto offers a lot more than Vancouver does - don't kill me Vancouverites). But you'd be surprised how many people are resentful of Central Canada and thus don't really bother with visiting the place to see if their notions are even anywhere near correct.

[SignalHillHiker]

Victoria's Secret officially opens in the Avalon Mall on Dec. 6. Apparently, it's already open - at least that's what one of the digital signs along Kenmount Road says.

[Acajack]

So they are not adjusting their sizes, just carrying more of the larger sizes to fit the market, which makes sense.

I imagine (or hope) they are also carrying a bit less of the "Euro-twink" styles that I've seen at the downtown Montreal store. Some of that stuff would be seen as rather outré in Canada outside Quebec.

Peter Simons was in Gatineau for the official announcement yesterday.

He told our local paper that there would be a few more new stores announced later this year, but not that many and that after that, that would be it for a while.

Which means that all of the locations being speculated about across Canada form much too big a list.

[Vertigo3000]

^ I think the yoga pants trend may be a West Coast thing. They're quite popular in LA right now too. Ugg boots though..

They are everywhere in Ontario too.

[ue]

^^ Well, Vancouver, Edmonton, and Ottawa-Gatineau have confirmed or built stores. I'm assuming a Toronto location or two will be announced, but I'm also guessing there will be at least one other market. Calgary seems most logical, but I'm not sure how actively they're pursuing that market. Maybe another Lower Mainland location? Winnipeg? Moncton? Kitchener? Hamilton?

[Acajack]

^^ Well, Vancouver, Edmonton, and Ottawa-Gatineau have confirmed or built stores. I'm assuming a Toronto location or two will be announced, but I'm also guessing there will be at least one other market. Calgary seems most logical, but I'm not sure how actively they're pursuing that market. Maybe another Lower Mainland location? Winnipeg? Moncton? Kitchener? Hamilton?

Calgary, Winnipeg and Toronto are the ones reported as being in "talks". I doubt they'll go to all three.

[ue]

^ Can't see them building just one location in the GTA, though. It's too big a market. I'm guessing one location in the 416 (Yonge St, Queen St, Eaton Centre, Yorkville, or Yorkdale Mall) and another in the 905 (Vaughan, Mississauga, or Newmarket).

[Acajack]

^ Can't see them building just one location in the GTA, though. It's too big a market. I'm guessing one location in the 416 (Yonge St, Queen St, Eaton Centre, Yorkville, or Yorkdale Mall) and another in the 905 (Vaughan, Mississauga, or Newmarket).

Square One and Yorkdale is what were mentioned in news reports.

Although it might be a question of investment capacity. The guy also said his company wasn't on the stock market, so they are financing all of this by themselves.

[ue]

^ I would've hoped for an urban format location on a street for Toronto like Montreal's St-Catherine location. But, I guess nothing is firmed up yet, so who knows.

[eternallyme]

The eastern GTA seems to be losing out the most in this retail explosion...at least that is how I see it. Not much seems to be going that way despite being a market of over one million people.

[SignalHillHiker]

Mary Brown's (Newfoundland's version of KFC) has just opened its first international location in Istanbul, Turkey:

http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?mn=2&id=41331&latest=1

[Coldrsx]

There’s good news for Edmonton-area shoppers with the announcement of a new 85-store outlet mall planned for the Edmonton International Airport.

Developer Ivanhoe Cambridge and the airport announced Wednesday a conditional agreement for the project called, The Outlet Collection at EIA.

The new mall will be located next to the QEII Highway and south of Airport Road. Both Ivanhoe Cambridge and the airport must sign a final agreement in early 2014 with the outlet mall slated to open in the fall of 2016.

“This is great news. It means more shopping, entertainment and hospitality options, not only for passengers, but for Greater Edmonton. The airport is a self-funded not-for-profit corporation, so airport revenue that is generated by leasing the land for this project will be reinvested into building better air service for the Edmonton Region. Ultimately, this will support more flights to more places”, said Myron Keehn, EIA Vice President of Commercial Development said in a news release.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bapbtv1CYAAKkv8.jpg:large
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bapbtv1CYAAKkv8.jpg:large)


http://www.edmontonjournal.com/business/commercial-real-estate/More+shopping+coming+Edmonton+airport/9245948/story.html

[SpongeG]

nice

Vancouver's airport is also getting an outlet mall, the first one from a european company mcarthur glen in north america

some of the confirmed stores/brands so far are: prada, burberry, etro, Desigual, moncler, armani, polo ralph lauren, kate spade, escada, tumi, fossil, coach, ted baker, michael kors, j crew, gap...

[Jay in Cowtown]

/\ Calgary's getting an outdoor Tanger Outlet in the parking lot of Calaway Park 10 mins west of the city limits on TCH. I guess our "airport outlet" would be CrossIron I suppose.

[losername]

There is no other city in Canada that is more of a fashion mecca than Montreal! It is far above any other Canadian city in terms of having the most fashionable residents, and their shopping is the best as far as I'm concerned as well.

I wouldn't call bedazzled jeans fashion forward, and they seem to be very popular with the men of Montreal.

[niwell]

The eastern GTA seems to be losing out the most in this retail explosion...at least that is how I see it. Not much seems to be going that way despite being a market of over one million people.

The eastern GTA has by far the lowest overall income in the region. Markham being the somewhat outlier, but it has better connections than Durham or eastern Scarborough.

[Innsertnamehere]

Eastern GTA should just be happy markville and Pickering are going mid-market, yet alone high end.

[Acajack]

The eastern GTA has by far the lowest overall income in the region. Markham being the somewhat outlier, but it has better connections than Durham or eastern Scarborough.

That's interesting for a few reasons, not the least of which that Durham region is noticeably less "diverse" than Peel region.

Sort of goes against some people's perceptions that immigration "brings down" parts of cities and metro areas socio-economically.

[kwoldtimer]

That's interesting for a few reasons, not the least of which that Durham region is noticeably less "diverse" than Peel region.

Sort of goes against some people's perceptions that immigration "brings down" parts of cities and metro areas socio-economically.

Markham was prosperous before the influx of monied vis-mins. I assume that is what attracted them in the first place.

[niwell]

That's interesting for a few reasons, not the least of which that Durham region is noticeably less "diverse" than Peel region.

Sort of goes against some people's perceptions that immigration "brings down" parts of cities and metro areas socio-economically.

I've had family in Durham Region dating back to the 1950s (grandmother still lives in Pickering) and it's a bit of a culture shock going out to visit. It's noticeably lower income than much of the GTA and a lot whiter. And just kind of shabbily maintained. Many of the houses in her 1950s era subdivision are now rented out.

Although the Pickering town centre and waterfront areas are poised to go up in value for sure.

[MolsonExport]

Iconic downtown London department store Kingsmill's for sale, owner retiring (http://www.lfpress.com/2013/09/26/kingsmills-department-store-for-sale-owner-retiring)

Older than Canada itself, Kingsmill’s began business in 1865 — two years before Confederation — as a dry goods store in what was then a frontier town in Canada West. The store opened on the same Dundas St. site where the retailer stands today.

The original store was opened by Kingsmill’s great-great grandfather, who immigrated from Ireland.

Over the years, the business has survived fires and radical upheaval in retailing, embracing online retailing and changing trends.

It’s also one of the last major family-owned downtown retailers, a store that still maintains old-fashioned touches like a hand-operated elevator staffed by an attendant.

[Retail-Insider]

La Maison Simons announces yet another store location. This one will be at Mississaga's Square One: http://www.retail-insider.com/2013/12/la-maison-simons-to-open-first-toronto.html

[ue]

Do you guys consider Scarborough "eastern GTA"? I always thought of Scarborough as relatively diverse, but not terribly wealthy like Old Toronto or Etobicoke.

^ So I guess that leaves 1-2 more to be confirmed, then?

Ottawa - Rideau Centre (2015)
Gatineau - Les Promenades Gatineau (2015)
West Vancouver - Park Royal (2016)
Mississauga - Square One (2016)

I'm betting Calgary's Southcentre or Chinook is the next announcement.

[miketoronto]

The eastern GTA is really not that much poorer at all. While Durham Region may look shabby or not as wealthy. It is more do to the residents who while they make good incomes, are more of that Harley biker kinda resident :). I don't know if it still stands, but Oshawa used to and may still have the highest income levels in the GTA (as a metro area stat).

The west end also has a much larger population. And you can't expect high end stores to be everywhere. In fact, I personally think a lot of the high end expansion in the west end is not a good thing. The long term viability of support so many branches of high end stores I don't think it is that great. They are just eating away at market share that once went to one store (usually on Bloor).
Look at European cities. I was just in London, and most of their high end stores only have one location, and thats central London. Same goes for Paris.
How Toronto is going to support all these branches I don't know.

If anything it cheapens the brands. I know that with Holt Renfrew going into Square One, I don't look at that chain as that exclusive or worthy of paying a high price for items in anymore. Why? Because by opening at Square One and in a bunch of other locations like Yorkdale, it just makes it a store you can find anywhere else.

[WhipperSnapper]

Yeah, Eastern GTA in my mind would be Durham Region which is about 600, 000 people. Bikers is a bit harsh but it is an odd place becoming odder and more insular the further east you go. Time seems to have stopped in the mid 1980s.

In any case, it is a largely untapped market. Someone will make a ton of money there.

[MolsonExport]

How a wealthy urban conurbation of more than 6.5 million could support 3-4 Maison Simons is beyond me. Unless they build them all downtown. All in the Eaton Centre. This way, there would not be any Bari-style crises. Let the specialty olive oil emporiums rule supreme.

[Innsertnamehere]

eastern GTA is largely composed of lower-middle class homes. Not too much low income housing in Durham. Certianly feels right out of the 1980's Oshawa was triumphing the new Costo that opened beside their downtown as if it was the greatest thing in the world a couple of years ago.

Northern Pickering (Seaton) has been designated one of the major areas for sprawl in the GTA, and with the 407 extension coming in Durham is going to get a lot larger, I wouldn't be surprised if we see it hit 1 million in 20 years. The sprawl is supposed to go up to north of the 407, essentially lining up with Major Mackenzie in York Region. Its also the cheapest region in the GTA for single family homes currently and strikes me as the most conservative suburb in the city.

[TownGuy]

The eastern GTA seems to be losing out the most in this retail explosion...at least that is how I see it. Not much seems to be going that way despite being a market of over one million people.

For what it's worth the Oshawa Centre is undergoing a $230 million expansion/redevelopment.

http://www.ivanhoecambridge.com/en-CA/pressreleases/2013/01/oshawacentretoenterintoneweraofshopping/index.aspx

[ue]

How a wealthy urban conurbation of more than 6.5 million could support 3-4 Maison Simons is beyond me. Unless they build them all downtown. All in the Eaton Centre. This way, there would not be any Bari-style crises. Let the specialty olive oil emporiums rule supreme.

Well Montreal, at 4 million, already has 4 and Quebec City, at 800,000, has 3. Ottawa, with 1.2 million people, will have at least 2 by the end of the decade.

[miketoronto]

It should be noted that all the malls in the eastern GTA have basically all the stores the other malls like Yorkdale have, except for of course the super high end shops, which most GTA malls do not have.

But save for those few stores that only Yorkdale has, Yorkdale really is more hype and marketing than having anything significantly different.

My brother lives in eastern Durham, and out there Oshawa Centre Mall is like the "downtown" of the region.

[MolsonExport]

Well Montreal, at 4 million, already has 4 and Quebec City, at 800,000, has 3. Ottawa, with 1.2 million people, will have at least 2 by the end of the decade.

indeed. hence my tongue-in-cheek response.

[miketoronto]

indeed. hence my tongue-in-cheek response.

I never said anything about Simons. I was talking about high end stores like Holt Renfrew. There is no need for so many in one metropolitan area.

Saks Fifth Ave for example, only has one store in Greater San Francisco, and that is downtown SF.

High end stores just dilute their brand when they have so many branches that make it a common store. They also dilute sales, as high end shops are not something people go to everyday. The Holts at Yorkdale and Sherway just divert sales that otherwise would have been made at the Bloor Street store. They don't serve a new market at all.

[MolsonExport]

I think you may overestimate the time/effort people will take to do their shopping in the core, unless they are already living/working there.

[miketoronto]

I think you may overestimate the time/effort people will take to do their shopping in the core, unless they are already living/working there.

I don't think so.

People travel metropolitan wide to go to a unique downtown retail area. And they also travel metropolitan wide to go to Yorkdale.
The stores Yorkdale has do not get supported by the local neighborhoods around it.

For example, people from as far as Kitchener-Waterloo travel to Yorkdale to shop.
A good friend of mine grew up in Kitchener-Waterloo and remembers trips to not only downtown Toronto, but also Yorkdale for shopping.
But as Yorkdale gets more shops that can be found downtown, it keeps reduces the amount of people traveling into Toronto.

Guelph just did a retail study for their downtown and found that two areas are big draws for Guelph residents for shopping. Those areas are downtown Toronto and Yorkdale. And also Square One made the list.

There will always be that premier shopping destination in a region, and we have to decide if that will continue to be downtown, or a suburban mall.
I would rather we not do like most American cities and make it a suburban mall, but rather keep our downtowns the centre.

But with all this rampant retail expansion in Canada at the moment, we are going to see our downtowns diminished if our cites do not control retail expansion they way they did in the 70's and 80's.
Calgary has also seen its downtown lost out to Chinook Centre. Lets not have other cities follow.

For an urban forum I cannot believe how complacent some of you are.
You above all MolsonExport, should know this, as your city (London) sold out their downtown years ago by allowing suburban retail expansion which was not required in a city the size of London.

[MolsonExport]

I don't adhere to the false dichotomy that you seem to be proposing. Anyone that has familiarity with my postings knows full well that I am not at all in favor of endless sprawl. But neither am I in favor of draconian legislation severely constraining retail to the core, which I believe would be counterproductive. Let's not forget that it wasn't zoning that built the great city centres of yesteryear; it was market forces. Strangely, you seem to be opposed to the explosion of condominiums in the core of Toronto, which would seem to be the catalyst for retail expansion downtown.