Canadian Retail Thread

[hipster duck]

It's interesting how resistant the Canadian marketplace generally is to those types of 'in between' sized grocers... the ones that, like Carrefour City, are maybe double the size of a 7-Eleven but still manage to offer pretty well a full range of groceries. I suppose there must be some reason for it, but you would think there would be some room between tiny convenience stores and conventional full sized supermarkets.

The Vancouver area has a lot of these kinds of stores. IGA is a small-format, urban, full-service grocery store. They're often in the base of midrise condos with about 30 parking spots in the basement. Then there's Urban Fare, and for non-groceries, there's London Drugs which sells everything from home electronics to cookware. It's like a mini-Wal Mart, and they're very urban focused. Also, Vancouver is just good at slotting mid and large-sized retail into condo podiums. You can see No Frills, Whole Foods, Save On, Canadian Tire and even Costco at the base of condo towers with a street entrance for customers on foot.

As for Starbucks, it does seem that their star is fading. The only people I know who get excited for it are those in their 40s who came of age in the 90s when Starbucks had some real brand cachet. To younger people, I get the impression that Starbucks is basically like McDonald's to them... a familiar place you can go to in a pinch.

Yeah. They had a bit of a boost in the last few years with their Pumpkin Spice Latte offering, which appealed to a lot of *ahem* basic girls, but they lost out on the PSL season because of the pandemic.

Also, nobody goes out of their way to go to a Starbucks - it's usually something you do between appointments - and this year nobody was traveling between appointments.

[Jeff]

Like has been mentioned in other instances in other cities already, the major uptick and embrace of local coffee shops in Winnipeg has definitely had a noticeable effect on whatever Starbucks were left in the inner-city areas of of this burg. I'd way rather spend $5 on a latte from a local joint than soulless Starbucks and I'm definitely not alone. Several centrally-located Starbucks/ coffee chains have ceased operations recently while the locally-owned coffee shops down the road are doing brisk business even during the pandemic. No tears lost on this turn of events on my part.

[Ozabald]

Indeed... Montreal's coffee culture goes back several decades while Ottawa's has been developing only since the early 80s. Having said that, locally-owned coffee shops are growing like crazy in Ottawa (Bridgehead, Crazy Cow, etc) just like the rest of the foodie scene and I think that Starbucks is on shaky ground in that city as well.

Sadly, Bridgehead is no longer locally owned as it was acquired in 2019 by Aegis Brands (aka: Second Cup).

[Denscity]

Van Houtte is a pretty big (local) chain player in the Montreal area. At first glance they have as many if not more locations than Starbucks.

Ah interesting. We have Van Houte here too but they supply coffee at a gas station (Chevron) as opposed to a stand alone coffee shop.

[whatnext]

It's interesting how resistant the Canadian marketplace generally is to those types of 'in between' sized grocers... the ones that, like Carrefour City, are maybe double the size of a 7-Eleven but still manage to offer pretty well a full range of groceries. I suppose there must be some reason for it, but you would think there would be some room between tiny convenience stores and conventional full sized supermarkets.

As for Starbucks, it does seem that their star is fading. The only people I know who get excited for it are those in their 40s who came of age in the 90s when Starbucks had some real brand cachet. To younger people, I get the impression that Starbucks is basically like McDonald's to them... a familiar place you can go to in a pinch.

Starbucks has been doing a huge pullout from the City of Vancouver. They've said their "post-pandemic" strategy is stores with drive-thrus (no longer allowed in Vancouver) but a lot of the locations they closed were fairly busy. They don't break out Canada results from US ones so it is difficult to see how big their drop in sales might have been.

[Harrison]

Anyone had coffee at a Starbucks Reserve?

Yes, it is much better than their conventional brews, but not much different from quality beans at a local roaster. The price is definitely higher than what a local cafe in Edmonton would charge.

[JHikka]

Sadly, Bridgehead is no longer locally owned as it was acquired in 2019 by Aegis Brands (aka: Second Cup).

Happy Goat is still locally-owned, no?

[Harrison]

Like Aldi and Lidl? That would fill a gap in Canada.

I would love to see Aldi open in Canada. Been to stores in the US and Australia and I find their cost-quality ratio for food superior to the big grocery chains here.

[dreambrother808]

Yeah. They had a bit of a boost in the last few years with their Pumpkin Spice Latte offering, which appealed to a lot of *ahem* basic girls, but they lost out on the PSL season because of the pandemic.

Starbucks sold a record number of Pumpkin Spice drinks this year, even with the pandemic.

Pumpkin Spice has been around for almost 20 years so it’s not a recent “boost”.

As for the closures, it’s a changing business strategy away from “a Starbucks on every corner” so as to increase profitability. When you close for example 1 of 2 nearby locations, you transfer some but not all sales from the closed location while cutting a good chunk of your fixed costs in half, thus turning a higher profit. It was not a reflection of decreasing sales, although that has naturally occurred during the pandemic. It is, moreover, seemingly in line with a vision that post-pandemic habits will change, office workers will not all be returning to downtown cores, etc.

[someone123]

As for the closures, it’s a changing business strategy away from “a Starbucks on every corner” so as to increase profitability.

In the past Starbucks was accused of over-saturating local markets at a loss to eliminate smaller competitors. This would be the end game for that strategy. I don't know if it's what actually happened, and a lot of the 90's style fancier-than-normal-for-their-era coffee shops that predate Starbucks seem to have survived while some new places have sprung up.

FWIW the Starbucks near me has had a 2 m spaced lineup out the door most times I've gone during the pandemic.

On a related note I've been amused by the Tim Hortons locations that reopened the distanced dining areas to have 1 senior sit at each of the 2 tables for hours on end.

[dreambrother808]

In the past Starbucks was accused of over-saturating local markets at a loss to eliminate smaller competitors.

I don’t think that operating at a loss was ever the strategy. It just seemed that way based on the number of locations they were opening. The eye was on growing revenue year-over-year. More locations equated to more revenue but also more fixed costs and therefore less overall profitability. They are correcting that mistake now, it seems.

[JHikka]

FWIW the Starbucks near me has had a 2 m spaced lineup out the door most times I've gone during the pandemic.

Any time I order ahead there's always five-to-seven people either waiting in line or have already ordered waiting for their order. I don't think Starbucks' popularity has declined whatsoever despite what some may hope.

On a related note I've been amused by the Tim Hortons locations that reopened the distanced dining areas to have 1 senior sit at each of the 2 tables for hours on end.
Pretty typical for every Tim's location, pre-COVID or not. It's actually pretty impressive how each location, no matter where in Canada, has their select group of seniors that loiter each day.

I don’t think that operating at a loss was ever the strategy. It just seemed that way based on the number of locations they were opening. The eye was on growing revenue year-over-year. More locations equated to more revenue but also more fixed costs and therefore less overall profitability. They are correcting that mistake now, it seems.
Overwhelm competitors with sheer force, wait for competitors to die off, then lessen locations once market share is an acceptable amount.

[someone123]

Pretty typical for every Tim's location, pre-COVID or not. It's actually pretty impressive how each location, no matter where in Canada, has their select group of seniors that loiter each day.

That is true but what used to be 12 seniors taking up 60% of the seating turned into 2-3 seniors taking up 100% of the seating. Also this is the highest-risk group for covid and they seem to care the least about it.

[Kilgore Trout]

Anyone had coffee at a Starbucks Reserve?

Yes, many times in various cities around Asia and once at the original Reserve location in Seattle. It's a big cut above their regular stuff and it's good in a pinch. But what bugs me is that every single one of their single origin or "specialty" coffees still has that weird Starbucks taste, which suggests to me they're doing something in the roasting process that prioritizes their brand signature over letting the coffee speak for itself.

[Kilgore Trout]

Indeed... Montreal's coffee culture goes back several decades while Ottawa's has been developing only since the early 80s. Having said that, locally-owned coffee shops are growing like crazy in Ottawa (Bridgehead, Crazy Cow, etc) just like the rest of the foodie scene and I think that Starbucks is on shaky ground in that city as well.

As others have said I think Starbucks is becoming a primarily suburban thing. Ottawa is definitely a step below Montreal in terms of coffee, but there are still lots of independent cafés. A few are very good by any standard and I make a point to visit them every time I'm in town. Little Victories in the Glebe is particularly nice.

Here in Montreal it's no surprise as to why Starbucks isn't popular. By my count, there are at least 30 independent cafés in my neighbourhood alone – that's an area of just one square kilometre.

[wave46]

I knew the game of endless growth for Starbucks was pretty much over when Timmins got one.

There's only so much the coffee-shop market can really absorb. Like Tim Hortons squeezing out the mom-and-pop donut shops and the second rate competition (see: Country Style/Robins), I can't imagine there's much headspace for Starbucks left in many places.

[Denscity]

Yes, it is much better than their conventional brews, but not much different from quality beans at a local roaster. The price is definitely higher than what a local cafe in Edmonton would charge.

Ah ok. I walked by the Granville Street Vancouver location but never had time to check it out.

[Denscity]

Yes, many times in various cities around Asia and once at the original Reserve location in Seattle. It's a big cut above their regular stuff and it's good in a pinch. But what bugs me is that every single one of their single origin or "specialty" coffees still has that weird Starbucks taste, which suggests to me they're doing something in the roasting process that prioritizes their brand signature over letting the coffee speak for itself.

Interesting I should check it out next time I'm on the coast.

[whatnext]

Since we're talking retail, this pissed me off: I went into Banana Republic the other day and they said : Oh our fittign rooms aren't open right, now but you have 45 days to return it".

If I can't try it on, what's the point of going into a store? I could just order it online have it delivered right to me and if it doesn't fit, return it. I have not heard of any documented Covid transmission from trying clothes on. The whole thing was ridiculous.

[SpongeG]

Since we're talking retail, this pissed me off: I went into Banana Republic the other day and they said : Oh our fittign rooms aren't open right, now but you have 45 days to return it".

If I can't try it on, what's the point of going into a store? I could just order it online have it delivered right to me and if it doesn't fit, return it. I have not heard of any documented Covid transmission from trying clothes on. The whole thing was ridiculous.

it makes no sense, some stores let you try on, some don't. If you have it taking it home and bringing it back ain't gonna change anything. Perhaps it cuts down on work that they have to do, like having to sanitize everything everytime.

[dreambrother808]

it makes no sense, some stores let you try on, some don't. If you have it taking it home and bringing it back ain't gonna change anything. Perhaps it cuts down on work that they have to do, like having to sanitize everything everytime.

It’s too much work. I’m just not buying anything. I buy probably less than 10% of what I try on. I’m not wasting my time returning everything because the store can’t be bothered to simply put the clothing aside until it’s sanitized. If a retailer wants me to spend money, then a reasonable onus should be on them.

[GreaterMontréal]

it makes no sense, some stores let you try on, some don't. If you have it taking it home and bringing it back ain't gonna change anything. Perhaps it cuts down on work that they have to do, like having to sanitize everything everytime.

Unions use covid as an excuse to do less, and companies use covid to save money. ''We don't want to do the work because covid... ''' '' we don't need so many employees because covid '' .

[dreambrother808]

Yes, many times in various cities around Asia and once at the original Reserve location in Seattle. It's a big cut above their regular stuff and it's good in a pinch. But what bugs me is that every single one of their single origin or "specialty" coffees still has that weird Starbucks taste, which suggests to me they're doing something in the roasting process that prioritizes their brand signature over letting the coffee speak for itself.

It comes down to preference rather than superiority. Starbucks roasts to the “second pop” even for light roasts. Coffee beans make a popping sound a bit like popcorn when roasted. Other chains don’t necessarily do this and this has created the Starbucks signature of roasting. I find that coffees at a lot of other places taste grassy and even sour, so obviously I prefer the Starbucks method. Thankfully the market provides options for all palates.

[Djeffery]

It's interesting how resistant the Canadian marketplace generally is to those types of 'in between' sized grocers... the ones that, like Carrefour City, are maybe double the size of a 7-Eleven but still manage to offer pretty well a full range of groceries. I suppose there must be some reason for it, but you would think there would be some room between tiny convenience stores and conventional full sized supermarkets.

As for Starbucks, it does seem that their star is fading. The only people I know who get excited for it are those in their 40s who came of age in the 90s when Starbucks had some real brand cachet. To younger people, I get the impression that Starbucks is basically like McDonald's to them... a familiar place you can go to in a pinch.

When I was in high school in the mid 80's, I quit my job at Mac's to work at the new Hasty Market that opened a few blocks away. That store has since shrunk down to a normal convenience store size, but when I worked there, it was a 7 aisle store with a produce section, a 6 door walk in freezer, a deli and in store bakery. It was quite popular with the people that lived in the high rises behind the store, but I guess as you say, the concept didn't take off in Canada. At the time, Mac's also had a larger format called Mac's Plus and they didn't last long either.

[Kilgore Trout]

It just occurred to me that Ottawa has two great examples of these mini-supermarkets: the Farm Boy locations in Rideau Centre and on Metcalfe Street. They're pretty much exactly what you'd find in Europe, with a small footprint (less than 10,000 square feet), a full selection of groceries, and an emphasis on ready-to-eat meals and private label products.

Here in Montreal, an upscale organic grocery chain called Avril is opening its first downtown location in a few months and it will be doing something quite similar to that.

[WhipperSnapper]

The kitchens in Toronto condos don't seem very practical for cooking meals. Very little storage. It's also reason to see a revolt having steered so far to the side of bulk shopping convenience during my youth. The times are too pricey. I don't recall another time with as many grocery options in my lifetime in Toronto. I vaguely recall the bakers, butchers, etc. all closing as a tyke with the onset of the first superstores. Now, I have both.

[urbandreamer]

Small footprint full service grocery stores I can think of in KW: Vincenzos, Central Fresh Market, Dutchies Market, Victoria Street Market?

[SpongeG]

Aldi had expressed interest in opening in Canada, they had even opened an office herebut closed it. source (https://www.retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2018/01/aldi-lidl-canada/)

anyway the one I went to was in Australia, it wasn't very big about the size of a typical Shoppers Drug mart. It was really cheap though and had a good selection of deals that were like household items or patio/garden things. They would be a giiod filler for many empty spots here, like old Pier 1 locations.

[niwell]

I had to go into the office over the Christmas break to pack up some stuff and was able to check out the new Farm Boy at College Park. It's quite small but seemed to have a good selection and makes quite efficient use of the space. Much better than the Sobey's it replaced. One thing I noted is that the aisles didn't have the COVID direction arrows most places have (and are largely ignored!).

It's interesting to see two small format urban grocery stores in the same complex. I'd probably shop at the Farm Boy almost daily if I were back in the office...

[JHikka]

I had to go into the office over the Christmas break to pack up some stuff and was able to check out the new Farm Boy at College Park. It's quite small but seemed to have a good selection and makes quite efficient use of the space. Much better than the Sobey's it replaced. One thing I noted is that the aisles didn't have the COVID direction arrows most places have (and are largely ignored!).

It's interesting to see two small format urban grocery stores in the same complex. I'd probably shop at the Farm Boy almost daily if I were back in the office...

Noticed this when I was there a few weeks ago. Smaller than usual suburban Farm Boy fair but on the whole decent for the area. Id shop at the Farm Boy as well but prices seem a little bit steeper than immediate competitors.

The City Market at College & Spadina closed months ago and I heard very light whispers of T&T locating into that space, which would be...very nice. :hmmm:

[Innsertnamehere]

Aldi had expressed interest in opening in Canada, they had even opened an office herebut closed it. source (https://www.retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2018/01/aldi-lidl-canada/)

anyway the one I went to was in Australia, it wasn't very big about the size of a typical Shoppers Drug mart. It was really cheap though and had a good selection of deals that were like household items or patio/garden things. They would be a giiod filler for many empty spots here, like old Pier 1 locations.

I shopped at an Aldi in Ireland a few years ago and thought it was a pretty odd store. It’s not really anything like existing grocery stores - Almost like a cross between Costco and No Frills but even cheaper and even less variety.

[SpongeG]

yeah, it seems they change stock weekly and bring in a lot of random deals and its like if you don't buy it when you see it you are likely not to see it again. I watch a lot of Aldi fan videos on youtube at times. I think it could do well in Canada.

In Ireland how did they store the eggs? In Australia at all the grocery stores eggs were not refrigerated but just kept on shelving or pallets in aisles.

[Harrison]

yeah, it seems they change stock weekly and bring in a lot of random deals and its like if you don't buy it when you see it you are likely not to see it again. I watch a lot of Aldi fan videos on youtube at times. I think it could do well in Canada.

In Ireland how did they store the eggs? In Australia at all the grocery stores eggs were not refrigerated but just kept on shelving or pallets in aisles.

Yeah the eggs in aisles was strange to see (also happens in New Zealand), but apparently in Europe that is how they are stored as well.

[dreambrother808]

Yeah the eggs in aisles was strange to see (also happens in New Zealand), but apparently in Europe that is how they are stored as well.

There’s a naturally-protective coating that we wash off in North America apparently and thus why we need to refrigerate.

[Kilgore Trout]

Yes, exactly. In places that don't refrigerate eggs it's important to wash them before you crack them open.

[esquire]

Yes, exactly. In places that don't refrigerate eggs it's important to wash them before you crack them open.

Really? Good to know, I've ever washed an egg in my life.

[yaletown_fella]

The kitchens in Toronto condos don't seem very practical for cooking meals. Very little storage. It's also reason to see a revolt having steered so far to the side of bulk shopping convenience during my youth. The times are too pricey. I don't recall another time with as many grocery options in my lifetime in Toronto. I vaguely recall the bakers, butchers, etc. all closing as a tyke with the onset of the first superstores. Now, I have both.

This is why I am upset with consumers for not essentially boycotting these overpriced condos with cubbyhole kitchens. These kinds of floor plans and small kitchens would not sell in most major American cities.

I don't know why people fall for the hype of "European kitchens" Glorified kitchenettes. They would be okay if we were wealthy and lived in Paris, Tokyo, or Hong Kong but theres no need to compress space like this in Toronto . It's a combination of increasing condo developer greed and people buying into (and leveraging themselves to the eyeballs) the Toronto Real Estate Board promoted hype of homeownership as the best investment ever with the least downside.

Surely not everyone is happy blowing $1500 a month on Uber Eats? Maybe Im ignorant or out of touch as I make all my meals at home , including homemade pizza and crepes (Im by no means bragging about being a good cook but it's good enough for me)

Condos built before 2007 seemed to have more reasonable sized kitchens on average. Id rather have a large eat in or L shape kitchen than a one-wall cubbyhole with tiny 1 foot deep counters and Miele European appliances (It's a great quality brand but not necessary for me or most consumers)

[urbandreamer]

^When you can't eat a ton of things thanks to GERD and CD, you'll be eating at home all the time too! I make everything from scratch myself - every time I eat out I get wrecked - eg a few week's ago in London I made a bad mistake and ate a shawarma meal and got glutened - cue the migraines, stomach pain and severe fatigue for weeks after.:( The only safe places are 100% gf bakeries - like Winnie's in Waterloo. Except they're $$$$ - I can bake a cake for 1/4 the cost and 1/3 the sugar they use.

The small kitchens are being sold to investors not end users.

Year's ago I worked briefly on a chicken farm ... I always wash my eggs!

[kwoldtimer]

yeah, it seems they change stock weekly and bring in a lot of random deals and its like if you don't buy it when you see it you are likely not to see it again. I watch a lot of Aldi fan videos on youtube at times. I think it could do well in Canada.

In Ireland how did they store the eggs? In Australia at all the grocery stores eggs were not refrigerated but just kept on shelving or pallets in aisles.

Refrigerated eggs are a NAmerican thing. The protective coating is washed off them to reduce the risk of salmonella so that they must be refrigerated, as I understand it.

[whatnext]

Godiva Chocolatier is closing 11 stores in Canada:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-godiva-to-close-128-stores-in-north-america-including-11-in-canada-by-2/

[Kilgore Trout]

Refrigerated eggs are a NAmerican thing. The protective coating is washed off them to reduce the risk of salmonella so that they must be refrigerated, as I understand it.

Yes, but the protective coating also prevents salmonella from penetrating the egg. It's basically two different ways to achieve the same goal, although I've heard arguments that the non-washed/refrigerated approach forces farmers to keep their chickens in a cleaner environment than in North America.

[YYCguys]

Since we're talking retail, this pissed me off: I went into Banana Republic the other day and they said : Oh our fittign rooms aren't open right, now but you have 45 days to return it".

If I can't try it on, what's the point of going into a store? I could just order it online have it delivered right to me and if it doesn't fit, return it. I have not heard of any documented Covid transmission from trying clothes on. The whole thing was ridiculous.

A friend wanted to try on/buy some running shoes but they wouldn’t let him try them on in the store. So he bought his intended size, went out to his car, tried them on there, and when they didn’t fit quite right, he went straight back into the store to return them, which they allowed.

It didn’t make any sense to me. A friend who works in a mall told me the retailers don’t want people lingering in a store any longer than needed, so trying on and browsing is discouraged. And they wonder why retailers are suffering!

[SpongeG]

A friend wanted to try on/buy some running shoes but they wouldn’t let him try them on in the store. So he bought his intended size, went out to his car, tried them on there, and when they didn’t fit quite right, he went straight back into the store to return them, which they allowed.

It didn’t make any sense to me. A friend who works in a mall told me the retailers don’t want people lingering in a store any longer than needed, so trying on and browsing is discouraged. And they wonder why retailers are suffering!

Things amongst retailers don't seem make sense at all, even malls themselves. I've been to some malls where the washrooms have their Dyson hand dryers taped off or signage saying due to covid these dryers are not in use, please use paper towel supplied and then another mall in the washroom it will say due to covid please use the hand dryers.

The not lingering I can understand as at smaller stores some of them have capacities of 2 people and stores want all customers to get in so get em in and get em out I guess. Maybe they could communicate the why they can't try it on in the store better to customers.

I was at a Winners today and its the first one I have seen where they have removed racks of clothes to provide more space for customers, the space between the racks is normally very close and you can easily bump into people but there was a good 10+ feet between the racks.

[kwoldtimer]

Yes, but the protective coating also prevents salmonella from penetrating the egg. It's basically two different ways to achieve the same goal, although I've heard arguments that the non-washed/refrigerated approach forces farmers to keep their chickens in a cleaner environment than in North America.

That is my understanding as well, at least wrt Europe. On the other hand, I've had eggs in Latin America that I had to wash myself ...

[JHikka]

Vancouver-based Triple O's enters Greater Toronto Area, with plans to open 30 Ontario locations

"The first location (at 1520 Courtneypark Drive East) opened on March 2 in Mississauga. The opening had been originally planned to open in 2020 but was delayed by six months due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

It'll be followed by another one on Zenway Boulevard in Vaughan, slated to open its doors in April. Other Ontario locations will be in Toronto, a second spot in Vaughan, and one in Hamilton. In addition, the company will also operate its On the Go Truck, a 30-foot mobile restaurant.

The company has ambitious plans to open a total of 30 locations in Ontario over the next five years.

In addition to free-standing locations, Triple O drive-thru shops in Ontario will be located at Pioneer and Ultramar gas stations (owing to the company’s relationship with Parkland Fuel Corporation)."

https://www.straight.com/food/vancouver-based-triple-os-enters-greater-toronto-area-with-plans-to-open-30-ontario-locations

[esquire]

So this is a fast food/take out version of White Spot?

[casper]

So this is a fast food/take out version of White Spot?

Much smaller menu. Basically just the White spot burgers. They are very common in the lower mainland attached to the convince store at the Chevron gas stations with a small sit-down area and drive throw.

There burgers are much better than most other fast food burger places and at about the same price point.

[giallo]

Triple O's bacon and cheddar burger is my jam. I always order one when I return home.

They make a decent poutine as well.

[niwell]

I’ve never had Triple O’s but one of my fave podcasts out of Vancouver (Blocked Party) talks about it all the time. Very excited to try!

[Loco101]

Vancouver-based Triple O's enters Greater Toronto Area, with plans to open 30 Ontario locations

"The first location (at 1520 Courtneypark Drive East) opened on March 2 in Mississauga. The opening had been originally planned to open in 2020 but was delayed by six months due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

It'll be followed by another one on Zenway Boulevard in Vaughan, slated to open its doors in April. Other Ontario locations will be in Toronto, a second spot in Vaughan, and one in Hamilton. In addition, the company will also operate its On the Go Truck, a 30-foot mobile restaurant.

The company has ambitious plans to open a total of 30 locations in Ontario over the next five years.

In addition to free-standing locations, Triple O drive-thru shops in Ontario will be located at Pioneer and Ultramar gas stations (owing to the company’s relationship with Parkland Fuel Corporation)."

https://www.straight.com/food/vancouver-based-triple-os-enters-greater-toronto-area-with-plans-to-open-30-ontario-locations

That's very interesting. Difficult to tell how that chain will do in the GTA and Hamilton. It's pretty competitive in those parts and the Triple O's name isn't likely known by most people. I'm surprised that they didn't start in cities like Kitchener and London which tend to be often used as test markets for Southern Ontario. The Mississauga location will sell lots of chicken sandwiches due to its demographics.

I've been to BC a number of times but have yet to go to a Triple O's. But I have been to White Spot a number of times and tried their burgers and sandwiches which are the same ones Triple O's has. My favourite is the Salmon burger but I don't think Triple O's has it on their menu. I will say that the burgers and especially the fries impressed me at White Spot. White Spot is very good in my opinion for a chain restaurant. I like how they promote BC grown food.

[casper]

That's very interesting. Difficult to tell how that chain will do in the GTA and Hamilton. It's pretty competitive in those parts and the Triple O's name isn't likely known by most people. I'm surprised that they didn't start in cities like Kitchener and London which tend to be often used as test markets for Southern Ontario. The Mississauga location will sell lots of chicken sandwiches due to its demographics.

I've been to BC a number of times but have yet to go to a Triple O's. But I have been to White Spot a number of times and tried their burgers and sandwiches which are the same ones Triple O's has. My favourite is the Salmon burger but I don't think Triple O's has it on their menu. I will say that the burgers and especially the fries impressed me at White Spot. White Spot is very good in my opinion for a chain restaurant. I like how they promote BC grown food.

Looks like they also recently opened a Calgary location. I find it odd they would jump to Ontario and not slowly move western by hitting Saskatoon, Regina and Winnipeg next. Either way a positive move.

Found their press release for the new store. Looks like it was intended to open last year but was delayed due to COVID.

https://d15u2cc0ghnorb.cloudfront.net/files/uploads/2021/03/Triple-Os-press-release-Final-003.pdf

Interesting facts from the press release:
- They already have 71 outlets in Canada and Asia.
- They have a goal of going into most Canadian markets.
- They also plan to bring the Trip O food truck service to Toronto. You see it around Vancouver in various places.

[Wigs]

I had to go into the office over the Christmas break to pack up some stuff and was able to check out the new Farm Boy at College Park. It's quite small but seemed to have a good selection and makes quite efficient use of the space. Much better than the Sobey's it replaced. One thing I noted is that the aisles didn't have the COVID direction arrows most places have (and are largely ignored!).

It's interesting to see two small format urban grocery stores in the same complex. I'd probably shop at the Farm Boy almost daily if I were back in the office...

St. Catharines got a Farm Boy store (a little over a year ago I think). If it wasn't for covid I'd check it out even though it's nowhere near me :haha:
What makes them different from other grocery stores?

[YYCguys]

St. Catharines got a Farm Boy store (a little over a year ago I think). If it wasn't for covid I'd check it out even though it's nowhere near me :haha:
What makes them different from other grocery stores?

I see a Farm Boy “coming soon” sign in the window at Queen’s Quay Terminal but the Farm Boy website doesn’t say (other then 2021) when it’s going to open. (I often stay in that area when I visit Toronto). I wonder when it’s going to open. I wouldn’t mind checking it out when it does.

[J.OT13]

St. Catharines got a Farm Boy store (a little over a year ago I think). If it wasn't for covid I'd check it out even though it's nowhere near me :haha:
What makes them different from other grocery stores?

I don't know how widespread Market Fresh was before it went under, but Farm Boy is similar. Rustic decor. Focus on fresh produce, meat, sea food, deli. Good selection of meals to go. Products from smaller companies. No toiletries, soft drinks or pharmacy items. No cleaning products or pet food.

[kwoldtimer]

St. Catharines got a Farm Boy store (a little over a year ago I think). If it wasn't for covid I'd check it out even though it's nowhere near me :haha:
What makes them different from other grocery stores?

I once saw Farm Boy described as a cross between Whole Foods and Trader Vic’s.

[Wigs]

Thanks for the info, guys

[urbandreamer]

Farm Boy is a waste of time. Save your money and get most of the same things at Freshco and Sobeys.

[acottawa]

St. Catharines got a Farm Boy store (a little over a year ago I think). If it wasn't for covid I'd check it out even though it's nowhere near me :haha:
What makes them different from other grocery stores?

Mostly store brand stuff (like Trader Joe’s). They often have good local produce and more Canadian meat or fish selection.

IMHO baked goods are better than you will find in other supermarkets.

Prices for produce are competitive. You will usually pay a premium for hipster store brand versions of things.

[memememe76]

There's a Triple O's in Hong Kong, didn't realize it was not yet in Toronto.

[zahav]

White Spot is such an institution in BC, I am curious if it will have the same take in Ontario. I agree with what others said, expansion to Alberta would've been way more of a slam dunk than out to Ontario. But the food is good, it's classic comfort food and has a niche for that here, I go with my mom every week still.

[Loco101]

White Spot is such an institution in BC, I am curious if it will have the same take in Ontario. I agree with what others said, expansion to Alberta would've been way more of a slam dunk than out to Ontario. But the food is good, it's classic comfort food and has a niche for that here, I go with my mom every week still.

Canadian regional restaurant chains often have an especially hard time going into another Canadian region. (BC, prairies, Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic are the regions)

[manny_santos]

Ah interesting. We have Van Houte here too but they supply coffee at a gas station (Chevron) as opposed to a stand alone coffee shop.

Van Houtte is also sometimes provided in corporate settings - my old office (pre-Covid) had Van Houtte in the break room.

[manny_santos]

Starbucks has been doing a huge pullout from the City of Vancouver. They've said their "post-pandemic" strategy is stores with drive-thrus (no longer allowed in Vancouver) but a lot of the locations they closed were fairly busy. They don't break out Canada results from US ones so it is difficult to see how big their drop in sales might have been.

They also closed two in New Westminster including one a couple blocks from me. The Waves coffee shop located in between these two closed Starbucks promptly expanded their opening hours to take advantage of the displaced customers. There is also a brand new coffee shop that just opened a couple weeks ago near one of the former Starbucks.

The Starbucks closest to me was consistently busy and always had a lineup whenever I went in, right up to the end. That closure was likely entirely strategic and not due to sales/profitability.

[manny_santos]

It's interesting how resistant the Canadian marketplace generally is to those types of 'in between' sized grocers... the ones that, like Carrefour City, are maybe double the size of a 7-Eleven but still manage to offer pretty well a full range of groceries. I suppose there must be some reason for it, but you would think there would be some room between tiny convenience stores and conventional full sized supermarkets.

As for Starbucks, it does seem that their star is fading. The only people I know who get excited for it are those in their 40s who came of age in the 90s when Starbucks had some real brand cachet. To younger people, I get the impression that Starbucks is basically like McDonald's to them... a familiar place you can go to in a pinch.

Back in the mid-2000s in London, there were very limited choices for coffee other than Tim Hortons and Starbucks - there was Williams Coffee Pub and Coffee Culture which were regional chains; there was Little Red Roaster in Wortley Village and the downtown library, there was Angelo’s Bakery which at one point had 4 locations (and had a fairly extensive drink menu), and there was a roastery at the Covent Garden Market. The Spoke at Western sold fair trade coffee when I was a student there, and it was arguably the best coffee in London at that time. But I remember Starbucks having a lot of cachet back then.

I also recall Kingston having a far more developed independent coffee shop culture than London back then.

There’s definitely more independent coffee shops in London nowadays, though Tim Hortons is still very dominant and some suburban parts of the city still have no other choices. I still don’t get how an area the size of Byron is served by a single Tim Hortons.

[Architype]

White Spot is such an institution in BC, I am curious if it will have the same take in Ontario. I agree with what others said, expansion to Alberta would've been way more of a slam dunk than out to Ontario. But the food is good, it's classic comfort food and has a niche for that here, I go with my mom every week still.

The sale of their Georgia Street location for a hefty $245 million might have allowed for some extra expansion elsewhere.

[casper]

White Spot is such an institution in BC, I am curious if it will have the same take in Ontario. I agree with what others said, expansion to Alberta would've been way more of a slam dunk than out to Ontario. But the food is good, it's classic comfort food and has a niche for that here, I go with my mom every week still.

It is not clear they are taking the White Spot sit-down restaurant format into Ontario. Just now it looks like just the Triple O franchise.

[Djeffery]

I still don’t get how an area the size of Byron is served by a single Tim Hortons.

It's sort of 3 that serve the area, although only the 1 actually in Byron. I live in Byron and never go to the Byron Tim's. I go to Colonel Talbot and Southdale, or the one that opened almost 2 years ago at West 5, which still never seems to have the long snaky drive thru lines.

The entirety of northwest London is surprisingly underserved by Tims though. Stand at Wharncliffe and the Thames River, draw a line down the river to the west and up Wharncliffe, Western and Richmond, and I count 6 of the top of my head in that whole quadrant of the city, including the one in the UCC at the university. That there isn't one on Oxford all the way from Talbot out to West 5 surprises me, and there isn't one on the north side of Oxford at all, across the entire city. Who wants to make lefts all the time if you are westbound lol.

[GreatTallNorth2]

There’s definitely more independent coffee shops in London nowadays, though Tim Hortons is still very dominant and some suburban parts of the city still have no other choices. I still don’t get how an area the size of Byron is served by a single Tim Hortons.

I'm happy to say I own one of those independent cafes in London :)

[Harrison]

I'm happy to say I own one of those independent cafes in London :)

The bicycle cafe?? ;)

[memememe76]

They also closed two in New Westminster including one a couple blocks from me. The Waves coffee shop located in between these two closed Starbucks promptly expanded their opening hours to take advantage of the displaced customers. There is also a brand new coffee shop that just opened a couple weeks ago near one of the former Starbucks.

The Starbucks closest to me was consistently busy and always had a lineup whenever I went in, right up to the end. That closure was likely entirely strategic and not due to sales/profitability.

What's the name of the new coffeeshop in New West?

[GreatTallNorth2]

The bicycle cafe?? ;)

Society Cafe in Blackfriars

[SpongeG]

What's the name of the new coffeeshop in New West?

serious coffee? they just opened in the retail of that tower 3 of the project I can't remember the name for. but it's attached to skytrain.

its a chain from Vancouver Island, quite popular there.

[Djeffery]

Society Cafe in Blackfriars

Glad to see you are still around after both that unfortunate car accident and, you know, that whole Corona thing lol.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Glad to see you are still around after both that unfortunate car accident and, you know, that whole Corona thing lol.

Ha, thanks. Yeah been a bit of a rough ride but it's going well now.

[manny_santos]

serious coffee? they just opened in the retail of that tower 3 of the project I can't remember the name for. but tits attached to skytrain.

its a chain from Vancouver Island, quite popular there.

Yep, that’s the one. I went there on the weekend for the first time, it was good and I plan to go back.

Technically it’s a block west of SkyTrain.

[manny_santos]

It's sort of 3 that serve the area, although only the 1 actually in Byron. I live in Byron and never go to the Byron Tim's. I go to Colonel Talbot and Southdale, or the one that opened almost 2 years ago at West 5, which still never seems to have the long snaky drive thru lines.

The entirety of northwest London is surprisingly underserved by Tims though. Stand at Wharncliffe and the Thames River, draw a line down the river to the west and up Wharncliffe, Western and Richmond, and I count 6 of the top of my head in that whole quadrant of the city, including the one in the UCC at the university. That there isn't one on Oxford all the way from Talbot out to West 5 surprises me, and there isn't one on the north side of Oxford at all, across the entire city. Who wants to make lefts all the time if you are westbound lol.

There is one just north of Oxford, on Wonderland. For all intents and purposes I considered it to be on Oxford, albeit set back behind the Esso and whatever the former Burger King now is.

The one area of London that is completely devoid of Tim Hortons is Oakridge. I was surprised one didn’t go in when that whole area was redeveloped in 2004-06.

I used to go to the Byron one a lot in high school. That was back when they had chili in a bread bowl.

[Denscity]

Canadian regional restaurant chains often have an especially hard time going into another Canadian region. (BC, prairies, Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic are the regions)

Yup no big presence in BC with Swiss Chalet Harvey's Kelseys East Side Mario's etc.

[manny_santos]

Yup no big presence in BC with Swiss Chalet Harvey's Kelseys East Side Mario's etc.

I felt bad because my parents sent me a gift card for that group of restaurants at Christmas, and I’ve been unable to use it so far. The closest one of those to me is a Swiss Chalet on Lougheed Highway in Burnaby, which can be a 30+ minute drive each way at rush hour. Next closest is a Montana’s all the way out in Langley.

I don’t believe we even have Harvey’s in this province anymore.

We have no shortage of Boston Pizza here though, which started in the West but has also been well-established in Ontario for nearly 20 years now.

[Denscity]

Ah yes forgot about Montanas. Whose esthetic is a log cabin style popular in BC ironically.
I'm actually just a few hours away from Montana actually haha.

[SpongeG]

did the Harveys on Granville street close down?

I noticed the poutine place on Granville had closed down. Granville is turning into a dump again, pretty awful these days. But that's for another thread.

Daiso (https://www.retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2021/02/brief-daiso-opening-1st-corporate-store-in-canada-montecristo-jewellers-opening-in-vancouvers-luxury-zone/) is however opening though so that's a good thing.

[Djeffery]

There is one just north of Oxford, on Wonderland. For all intents and purposes I considered it to be on Oxford, albeit set back behind the Esso and whatever the former Burger King now is.

The one area of London that is completely devoid of Tim Hortons is Oakridge. I was surprised one didn’t go in when that whole area was redeveloped in 2004-06.

I used to go to the Byron one a lot in high school. That was back when they had chili in a bread bowl.

It has no access at all from Oxford and the left into there from Wonderland is a nightmare. Plus it always has a huge line at the drive thru. And the way the 2 lane drive thru is built, the outer lane can block off the inner lane and you always get some asshole in the outer lane that jumps ahead.

I was always amazed that Timmy's didn't go in at Oxford and Hyde Park. The Starbucks there has some of the largest lines I ever see.

[manny_santos]

did the Harveys on Granville street close down?

As far as I knew last summer the only remaining Harvey's in BC was in Port Coquitlam. When I went there they had a notice on the door saying they were closing for good on (I think) November 9, 2020. I haven't been back to that area since so I don't know if they actually closed.

That PoCo Harvey's served me a cold hamburger. It also tasted nothing like what Harvey's tastes like in Ontario.

[manny_santos]

I was always amazed that Timmy's didn't go in at Oxford and Hyde Park. The Starbucks there has some of the largest lines I ever see.

12 years ago that Starbucks had the highest sales in London. I'd heard that from a reliable source.

[JHikka]

IKEA to open first store in downtown Toronto

Swedish meatballs and reasonably priced furniture is coming to Toronto.

IKEA will open its first downtown Toronto store at 382 Yonge Street, on the northwest corner of Yonge and Gerrard, located in the AURA building.

The Swedish furniture retailer tells 680 NEWS that the 132,070 square foot store will span two floors and will be a “smaller format urban store – emblematic of our commitment to becoming an increasingly people and planet positive retail concept.”

https://www.680news.com/2021/03/25/ikea-to-open-first-store-in-downtown-toronto-canada-locations/

[Kilgore Trout]

I would be really happy if IKEA opened urban format stores all across Canada. They often have the best price/quality ratio for basic household things like kitchenware, picture frames, doormats, lightbulbs, etc. and yet their business model forces you to make a special trip just to buy something simple.

[Loco101]

As far as I knew last summer the only remaining Harvey's in BC was in Port Coquitlam. When I went there they had a notice on the door saying they were closing for good on (I think) November 9, 2020. I haven't been back to that area since so I don't know if they actually closed.

That PoCo Harvey's served me a cold hamburger. It also tasted nothing like what Harvey's tastes like in Ontario.

I've had both Harvey's and Swiss Chalet in the western provinces and they never tasted as good as in Ontario including our location in Timmins which serves both restaurants' food.

In 2019 I ate at a Swiss Chalet in Victoria BC. The taste seemed off. Either the food supplier was different or they were cooking it a bit differently.

The last Harvey's I ate at out West was in Rocky Mountain House AB. It was okay but not as good as what I'm used to.

We have in Timmins, the only Toujours Mikes (used to just be known as Mikes) restaurant outside Quebec. I don't find the food to be even close to as good as what I've had at their Quebec locations but in Timmins people seem to like it a lot, especially their breakfast dishes. We once had a St-Hubert here but it was so badly run and the food quality was nothing like in Quebec so it didn't last very long.

[zoomer]

/\ that Victoria Swiss Chalet closed in 2020 - none left now thank goodness.

LL Bean is opening up in Mayfair Mall in Victoria - they have five locations in Canada, all in Ontario so looks like they’ll be expanding with more stores across the country. Good thing as I won’t ever order clothes online, too much hassle with returns, etc.

[Loco101]

/\ that Victoria Swiss Chalet closed in 2020 - none left now thank goodness.

LL Bean is opening up in Mayfair Mall in Victoria - they have five locations in Canada, all in Ontario so looks like they’ll be expanding with more stores across the country. Good thing as I won’t ever order clothes online, too much hassle with returns, etc.

I'm not at all surprised that the restaurant closed if others experienced what I did. Most of the people there seemed to be seniors who were originally from Ontario as I could tell from their conversations.

Haven't heard LL Bean in awhile. It's a brand that isn't big where I live in Northern Ontario but I think is more in tune with BC even though it's from Maine. It's very overpriced in my opinion. I always think of someone I know in Southern Ontario who used to buy so much from that store for the outdoors and camping and drove around in her Subaru as if she was always on some big adventure.

[zoomer]

I'm not at all surprised that the restaurant closed if others experienced what I did. Most of the people there seemed to be seniors who were originally from Ontario as I could tell from their conversations.

Haven't heard LL Bean in awhile. It's a brand that isn't big where I live in Northern Ontario but I think is more in tune with BC even though it's from Maine. It's very overpriced in my opinion. I always think of someone I know in Southern Ontario who used to buy so much from that store for the outdoors and camping and drove around in her Subaru as if she was always on some big adventure.

Haha, yes, that’s a pretty good synopsis of the place, seniors originally from Ontario or the Prairies looking for affordable chicken dinners. Everyone needs a place they get value for money, but clearly it wasn’t even providing that.

Curious to see how LL Bean will do as its image, at least in my mind is linked to those Subaru weekend trips to the cottage in Maine where we’ll discuss Joe Biden’s first 100 days over a couple of craft beers and turn in before 10 pm. So.. not a rugged Canadian outdoor or rainy west coast gear type of place. That being said I’m sure it’ll do well as their clothes look nice enough and outdoor sporting/clothes stores are very popular here.

[MonctonRad]

LL Bean is opening up in Mayfair Mall in Victoria - they have five locations in Canada, all in Ontario so looks like they’ll be expanding with more stores across the country. Good thing as I won’t ever order clothes online, too much hassle with returns, etc.

LL Bean is also opening a store in Halifax this year.

[casper]

I've had both Harvey's and Swiss Chalet in the western provinces and they never tasted as good as in Ontario including our location in Timmins which serves both restaurants' food.

In 2019 I ate at a Swiss Chalet in Victoria BC. The taste seemed off. Either the food supplier was different or they were cooking it a bit differently.

The last Harvey's I ate at out West was in Rocky Mountain House AB. It was okay but not as good as what I'm used to.

We have in Timmins, the only Toujours Mikes (used to just be known as Mikes) restaurant outside Quebec. I don't find the food to be even close to as good as what I've had at their Quebec locations but in Timmins people seem to like it a lot, especially their breakfast dishes. We once had a St-Hubert here but it was so badly run and the food quality was nothing like in Quebec so it didn't last very long.

Only Harvey's I know of in Western Canada is in the underground food court at the University of Saskatchewan. I found their product (both in Western Canada and Ontario) to have a weird texture. Do they even use 100%?

[SpongeG]

Edmonton had loads of Harveys, Grand Prairie has two of them. I passed the Swiss Chalet in Burnaby today and it's still open and going.

The pattys they use seem like those ones you get out of a box in the freezer section.

https://assets.shop.loblaws.ca/products/20060012/b1/en/front/20060012_front_a01.png
loblaws.ca

[Denscity]

Edmonton had loads of Harveys, Grand Prairie has two of them. I passed the Swiss Chalet in Burnaby today and it's still open and going.

The pattys they use seem like those ones you get out of a box in the freezer section.

https://assets.shop.loblaws.ca/products/20060012/b1/en/front/20060012_front_a01.png
loblaws.ca

Totally what I thought!

[JHikka]

I would be really happy if IKEA opened urban format stores all across Canada. They often have the best price/quality ratio for basic household things like kitchenware, picture frames, doormats, lightbulbs, etc. and yet their business model forces you to make a special trip just to buy something simple.

Yeah, i'm interested to see how this location fares. It'll definitely be a boost to AURA which has been a nightmare for retail since it opened. Much easier than trekking out to Vaughan or elsewhere to visit a fully-fledged location.

[YYCguys]

IKEA to open first store in downtown Toronto

Swedish meatballs and reasonably priced furniture is coming to Toronto.

IKEA will open its first downtown Toronto store at 382 Yonge Street, on the northwest corner of Yonge and Gerrard, located in the AURA building.

The Swedish furniture retailer tells 680 NEWS that the 132,070 square foot store will span two floors and will be a “smaller format urban store – emblematic of our commitment to becoming an increasingly people and planet positive retail concept.”

https://www.680news.com/2021/03/25/ikea-to-open-first-store-in-downtown-toronto-canada-locations/

I heard that the current retail selection at Aura was/is weak. Is IKEA taking up all of the retail space there? Who’s the leasing agent for the retail portion there?

[casper]

Edmonton had loads of Harveys, Grand Prairie has two of them. I passed the Swiss Chalet in Burnaby today and it's still open and going.

The pattys they use seem like those ones you get out of a box in the freezer section.

https://assets.shop.loblaws.ca/products/20060012/b1/en/front/20060012_front_a01.png
loblaws.ca

Yes, that brand of meat matching my impression of Harvey's.

The burger chain that was originally founded by the company that at the time was doing airline catering for Air Canada. Odd, I found airline food better than Harvey's.

I find it odd they are successful in Alberta. There are two thinks Albertans know, petroleum and their beef.

[MonctonRad]

My opinion of Harveys was formed by eating at the one in Fredericton once in the early 1970s

I have never eaten at Harveys again - it has been nearly 50 years. :haha:

[Djeffery]

In my middle age I've really turned away from fast food burgers, but as a teen in the 80's, I preferred Harvey's to any of their FF competition. Of course, back then you asked for a burger and you watched them throw your fresh patty on the grill and you waited a couple minutes for it. Now they just use frozen patties and the comparison above to no name burgers is probably not far off reality. Harvey's used to have the best fries, but they are just ordinary now too.

[ToxiK]

In my middle age I've really turned away from fast food burgers, but as a teen in the 80's, I preferred Harvey's to any of their FF competition. Of course, back then you asked for a burger and you watched them throw your fresh patty on the grill and you waited a couple minutes for it. Now they just use frozen patties and the comparison above to no name burgers is probably not far off reality. Harvey's used to have the best fries, but they are just ordinary now too.

I know. In the 80's, they were my favorite fries but they "improved" them to make them more crispy and since then, they suck. I still like their burgers though.

[north 42]

Construction is starting in Windsor on the 3rd Chick-Fil-A location in Canada, the first outside of the GTA.

Hopefully they keep their bible thumping beliefs on the American side of the border! That usually doesn’t go over well here.

https://windsorite.ca/2021/03/construction-starting-at-windsors-new-chick-fil-a-location/