Canadian Retail Thread

[ccw219]

Downtown malls stink in medium-sized cities. You need a critical mass of office workers + residents as well as a large enough attraction. Why on earth would suburbanites want to travel to a downtown mall and pay to park if only getting access to the same store assortment as they have at the nearby suburban mall with free parking?

While a critical mass of office workers and residents have their effect, I'm not sure that this is entirely true. Regina and Saskatoon for example have their most vibrant shopping centres downtown. Each city may be too unique for this type of generalization. For example, Edmonton's downtown retail would probably look entirely different without West Edmonton Mall. Robson Street takes much of this role in Vancouver due to a unique climate.

City management and property management seem to be the most important factors.

[eternallyme]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/walterloeb/2013/06/10/dg-drtr-fdo-do-we-really-need-40000-dollar-stores/

That was the source of the article I found on cheap-level retail in the US. It suggested that they could have 40,000 dollar stores from the major companies alone (cannibalizing each other). If converted to Canada, that would be about 4,000.

[SteelTown]

Calvin McDonald, CEO and President of Sears Canada is resigning. He did a great job turning around Sears.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4121274-sears-canada-ceo-resigns/

[kwoldtimer]

Calvin McDonald, CEO and President of Sears Canada is resigning. He did a great job turning around Sears.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4121274-sears-canada-ceo-resigns/

Wonder how many millions he'll walk away with.....

[SpongeG]

Vancouver has a lot of dollar stores - only two chains are true dollar stores dollar tree and dollarama - most of the others sell crap priced well beyond a dollar such as $49 items - they put dollar in the name but its just all junk

[isaidso]

Calvin McDonald, CEO and President of Sears Canada is resigning. He did a great job turning around Sears.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4121274-sears-canada-ceo-resigns/

By turning around you mean from a success to a complete mess? Wish I could be paid millions to ruin big companies. He must be laughing all the way to the bank.

[isaidso]

Thunder Bay has 6 or 7 Dollaramas now, the two that are set to open in a few weeks are occupying spaces that have been vacant for 5 or 6 years. One is part of the revitalization of a dead mall, the other is in a lower income part of downtown. It's a pretty useful store once you get past that fact that it's owned by Bain Capital.

Dollarama is actually one of this country's most valuable retailers. It has a market cap approaching $6 billion.

[SteelTown]

By turning around you mean from a success to a complete mess? Wish I could be paid millions to ruin big companies. He must be laughing all the way to the bank.

The Sears in Hamilton got a complete makeover and apparently the model will go nationally.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2253614-lime-ridge-sears-change-gets-customers-thumbs-up-/

[Ramako]

Big news everyone... Tim Horton's is coming to CityPlace! It's all coming together now.

[SteelTown]

Yesterday I noticed a redbox was installed at a Tim Hortons. Think it was get a coffee and free movie.

[eternallyme]

The smaller cities seem to get little mention, but I wonder what will happen to the retail scene in them? In greatest question is malls - including dominant ones - in the mid-sized cities (say, from 100,000 to 500,000). I know the Retail-Insider site has had little in the way of news from the mid-sized cities.

It appears unlikely they will go upscale themselves (even in the US, they have shied away from even the mid-sized cities from my view) or will they wither on the vine, since the middle seems to be weakening and collapsing?

[miketoronto]

Kingsmills in downtown London, Ontario is up for sale. It is one of the last family run department stores in the country. It has been in business and operated by the same family for 148 years. Sadly the current member of the family who is running the store wants to retire.

The store is said to still do good business even as downtown London continues to stuggle in the retail department. Kingsmills actually expanded their store a few years ago and is well known for their furniture and home section.

[kevinbottawa]

Here are some updated renderings of the Rideau Centre expansion in Ottawa.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVDKTskIUAAwugL.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVDKbmHCMAA5NAQ.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVDKo2BCQAAcZ3k.png:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVDKyxUIgAEzjz8.jpg:large

There's also a video.

cKWvVSlRi-0

[isaidso]

That's much better than what's there now.

[LeftCoaster]

The parking lot? Yeah I should hope so.

Those can't be that updated since they still say Howell's. Howell's is the in-place name for what is now going to be a flagship Simons

[jay2018]

While i am happy about the Rideau Central upgrades but with Bayshore under going major expanson plus Landsdown which will have 300,000 sq feet of retail and the new outlet mall were talking about tons of new retail spaces that concerns me a bit.

[waterloowarrior]

Giant Tiger up for sale
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/canadian-discount-retailer-giant-tiger-up-for-sale-sources/article14685324/

MP Scott Reid is the son of the founder Gordon Reid

[kwoldtimer]

Giant Tiger up for sale
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/canadian-discount-retailer-giant-tiger-up-for-sale-sources/article14685324/

MP Scott Reid is the son of the founder Gordon Reid

I did not know that. For some reason I had always thought that Giant Tiger was a franco-Ontarian owned chain. Learned something new today. :cheers:

[SpongeG]

The smaller cities seem to get little mention, but I wonder what will happen to the retail scene in them? In greatest question is malls - including dominant ones - in the mid-sized cities (say, from 100,000 to 500,000). I know the Retail-Insider site has had little in the way of news from the mid-sized cities.

It appears unlikely they will go upscale themselves (even in the US, they have shied away from even the mid-sized cities from my view) or will they wither on the vine, since the middle seems to be weakening and collapsing?

Ft St John in NE BC, population of about 20,000 or so is getting a Winners and another big box store in their mall - the mall once housed safeway and zellers as anchors in the 80's, i don't know when zellers shut down but it was split into a number of stores, staples, dollarama and a big sports store and the safeway moved out of the mall and opened next door and the old spot became a multiplex theatre - the winners and i think its a petsmart, are being added onto the mall next to the staples

the rest of the mall is just typical small town stuff

[Taeolas]

Woodstock, New Brunswick (town of around 5000 people, but more or less the service-hub for the Saint John River between Grand Falls and Fredericton), tried to build a downtown mall in the 90's, with office space upstairs. It never took off, and now it's pure office space, with the Service NB (Licensing offices) in the retail space now.

It's main mall, Carleton Mall, is anchored originally with a Sobeys at one end and the Met (followed by SAAN) at the other end, and some smaller stores in the middle, including Shoppers Drug Mart and Canadian Tire as a satilite store.

It did well for a long time, but now it's looking really rough. Canadian Tire built a new store slightly further away (store is still too small for what they serve but that's another issue), and Sobeys expanded into the area the old Canadian Tire was, pulling Shoppers with it. Then the Met and SAAN closed up.

Now the mall has a biggish Sobeys and Shoppers at one end, each with effectively outside entrances only (Shoppers is basically in the old space of Sobeys, technically they have inside entrances but it's more of a glassed in patio than a mall hallway), and the Brick has taken over much of SAAN's old space, but with only an outside entrance. The inside section is all but dead now, especially since KFC has moved out (to a new restaurant in a minimall/gas station hub at the highway). CIBC is basically the only tenet of note left in there, and I wouldn't be surprised if they're looking to either take over the middle or build new. (They're the only CIBC branch in the town and they've been there for 30+ years now; all of the other banks and the Credit Union have changed locations at least once over the same time)

[MonctonRad]

Bass Pro Shops announces plans to open fourth Canadian store in Moncton, New Brunswick
October 18, 2013

Retail hub of the Maritimes

SPRINGFIELD, Mo.-- Bass Pro Shops®, an outdoor retailer specializing in hunting, fishing, camping and other related outdoor recreation gear, will locate its fourth Canadian store in Moncton, New Brunswick. The new 110,000 square-foot Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World store will be easily accessible from the major cities in the Maritimes, making it a retail destination drawing from more than 1.2 million people living within a three-hour drive. The specific address of the store will be announced in the near future.

The Maritimes provinces enjoy a rich tradition of outdoor sports and history as they are situated on the Atlantic Ocean and contributing waterways of the Gulf of St. Lawrence and the Gulf of Maine. With 11,000 kilometres of saltwater coastline, 250 rivers, 6,500-plus lakes and more than 10,000 kilometres of trails, the area offers world famous fishing and hunting. Some of the best anglers head to Canada to fish everything from salmon to shark; from brook trout to smallmouth bass. Trophy black bear, moose, white-tailed deer and waterfowl can be found in the area’s pristine forests, secluded marshes and coastal woods.

https://us.vocuspr.com/Publish/2454/vcsPRAsset_2454_119755_54e11d76-bd0b-44ce-82e3-5dc933f327a2_0.jpg

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CFPage?storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&appID=34&template=news_display.cfm&newsID=477

[Nouvellecosse]

Well they certainly aren't shy about the fact that it'll be a suburban nightmare in a super-cheesy pseudo cabin surrounded by surface parking seeing as the parking lot is right front and center of the rendering.

[kwoldtimer]

Which is strange because most folks shopping for a crossbow or fishing tackle are looking for something more urban and sophisticated. :D

[Steelcowboy]

I was wondering when one of the 2 Outdoor stores were gonna tap into the market here, a few weeks ago a rumour came out that Cabella's was looking to open a store here...now this announcement. There's no doubt that they would be catering to the needs of all outdoorsmen and women here. A sweet announcement!!!

[HTania]

I was wondering when one of the 2 Outdoor stores were gonna tap into the market here, a few weeks ago a rumour came out that Cabella's was looking to open a store here...now this announcement. There's no doubt that they would be catering to the needs of all outdoorsmen and women here. A sweet announcement!!!

I like those outdoor stores. It is fun even just looking around.

[miketoronto]

Was just in the renovated eastern half of The Bay Queen Street's 2nd floor menswear department this past weekend.
They did a great job, and even opened up the windows to the street so you can look out now.
Really really well done, and it even had a sort of European department store feel to it, as it reminded me of the department stores I was recently at in Europe. Overall very impressed, and I hope they do the rest of the floor over now.

I also want to add that the store was busy busy busy. Usually the menswear floor is not that busy, but the escalators were going full.

[miketoronto]

major expanson plus Landsdown which will have 300,000 sq feet of retail and the new outlet mall were talking about tons of new retail spaces that concerns me a bit.

I completely agree. Canadian retail is going to go down the path of their American counterparts with very low sales per sq foot, and possiblt dead malls if we don't plan for some restraint here.
They are going to overextend some markets.

For example, in Toronto I think Holt Renfrew at Sq One is a total mistake, that will not only diminish the brand, but also just eats sales away from existing stores.

[eternallyme]

I completely agree. Canadian retail is going to go down the path of their American counterparts with very low sales per sq foot, and possiblt dead malls if we don't plan for some restraint here.
They are going to overextend some markets.

For example, in Toronto I think Holt Renfrew at Sq One is a total mistake, that will not only diminish the brand, but also just eats sales away from existing stores.

Meanwhile, smaller markets will likely be abandoned completely...everyone will be forced to shop at Walmart-level retail or have to travel a long distance at this rate.

[BlackRedGold]

I completely agree. Canadian retail is going to go down the path of their American counterparts with very low sales per sq foot, and possiblt dead malls if we don't plan for some restraint here.
They are going to overextend some markets.


There hasn't been a new mall built in Ottawa in close to two decades. It is beyond idiotic to think that dead malls could even be an issue. That the major malls in Ottawa are expanding is proof that the opposite is happening.

[bikegypsy]

There hasn't been a new mall built in Ottawa in close to two decades. It is beyond idiotic to think that dead malls could even be an issue. That the major malls in Ottawa are expanding is proof that the opposite is happening.

You beat me to it. Indeed; the past 20 years saw a population increase of 50% whilst very little had be done on the side of retail in this city. Only one expansion at St-Laurent. The last major mall development goes back to the opening of the Rideau Centre, 30 years ago. Ottawa is just catching up.

[Loco101]

Wasn't Place d'Orleans that last mall built in Ottawa? I don't live there but I think I remember it opening in the late 1980s.

[miketoronto]

There hasn't been a new mall built in Ottawa in close to two decades. It is beyond idiotic to think that dead malls could even be an issue. That the major malls in Ottawa are expanding is proof that the opposite is happening.

Umm they said the same thing in US cities.
We also have city centers to think about, and Ottawa's is mildly healthy in the retail sector, but still not there as a true healthy downtown retail environment.

Any more suburban expansion further diminishes downtown.

Just because a city grows does not mean you need uncontrolled retail growth.
Ottawa actually had suburban mall development restraints in the 70s and 80s, to ensure the city did not overdevelop retail and just kill existing retail.
In fact that is one of the reasons Rideau Centre was built downtown. It was the only area of the city allowed to have retail expansion.

European cities also do not develop obscene amounts of retail just because they are growing.

You only need so much of one carbon copy store to serve a particular market.
Most of the time you are just eating away sales at existing malls and downtowns, and not really serving any new markets with these expansions.

All I am saying is that Canadians may be getting a little to smug here and think we are just the best right now, because of our high retail sales, and expansion.
But there are reasons for that, and part of it is past policy which worked to protect not only our downtowns, but also ensure suburban retail expansion was not just going to eat away at existing business.

Throw that all out and we will go down the path of the USA at some point.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Umm they said the same thing in US cities.
We also have city centers to think about, and Ottawa's is mildly healthy in the retail sector, but still not there as a true healthy downtown retail environment.

Any more suburban expansion further diminishes downtown.

Just because a city grows does not mean you need uncontrolled retail growth.
Ottawa actually had suburban mall development development restraints in the 70s and 80s, to ensure the city did not overdevelop retail and just kill of existing retail.
In fact that is one of the reasons Rideau Centre was built downtown. It was the only area of the city allowed to have retail expansion.

European cities also do not develop obscene amounts of retail just because they are growing.

You only need so much of one carbon copy store to serve a particular market.
Most of the time you are just eating away sales at existing malls and downtowns, and not really serving any new markets with these expansions.

All I am saying is that Canadians may be getting a little to smug here and think we are just the best right now, because of our high retail sales, and expansion.
But there are reasons for that, and part of it is past policy which worked to protect not only our downtowns, but also ensure suburban retail expansion was not just going to eat away at existing business.

Throw that all out and we will go down the path of the USA at some point.

^ Well said.

[eternallyme]

TRUE, there has been no new malls in Ottawa (or most Canadian cities) in decades.

BUT, there have been millions of square feet of big-box retail built in that time (just in Ottawa, the amount built is likely equal to the square footage of the Rideau Centre 4 or 5 times over - I can only imagine it is even more in the GTA), and they continue to get built (at a far greater rate than population or economic growth). That is what is eating at everything.

[miketoronto]

Most of the suburban expansion in retail, at least in Ottawa, has been due to big boxes. I agree there is a surplus of them, but they would be highly unlikely to locate in the downtown area anyway.

An interesting thing I am noticing while working here in the USA (I knew this happened, but it is weird actually seeing it happen) is the poaching of retail.

A Walmart is moving literally four blocks and building a new store and vacating its old store in an established retail area with multiple big box stores.
I cannot say for certain, but it looks like Walmart got a break for the suburban municipality to relocate, as the new store is a few blocks inside a neighboring municipality. They love doing that in the USA, and it creates additional issues with dead retail space.

[eternallyme]

An interesting thing I am noticing while working here in the USA (I knew this happened, but it is weird actually seeing it happen) is the poaching of retail.

A Walmart is moving literally four blocks and building a new store and vacating its old store in an established retail area with multiple big box stores.
I cannot say for certain, but it looks like Walmart got a break for the suburban municipality to relocate, as the new store is a few blocks inside a neighboring municipality. They love doing that in the USA, and it creates additional issues with dead retail space.

It is far less common in Canada but I have seen it happen. (Yes, I change to try to rephrase it)

Such is often due to one of three factors:

1) Older locations unable to expand when Walmart wants a supercentre (i.e. built out on all sides). Unfortunately, no other retailer is willing to fill in the space due to lack of market demand (i.e. specialized stores in a town of, say, 10,000).

2) Land deals with varying municipalities, as you said. That just creates a corporate welfare issue.

3) Traffic issues, such as if the existing Walmart has not enough parking available based on changes of demand.

[eternallyme]

I think a big-box crash may be coming and that should be a greater concern than mall space poaching. Some of these stores may go under in the near future, and there will be no one who could legitimately take the lost retail space. It is already happening in the US.

[eemy]

The Walmart in Orillia recently opened about a block away from the old one. I think due to the inability to expand at the old location.

[WhipperSnapper]

Walmart and a few other anchor stores moved from one side of the street to the other in the big box hell at Warden & Eglinton in Toronto. The new stores are newer and larger but, competing big box developers may have been involved. It's amazing how disposable big box is.

[J.OT13]

Wasn't Place d'Orleans that last mall built in Ottawa? I don't live there but I think I remember it opening in the late 1980s.

Place d'Orléans opened in 1979, the Rideau Centre in 1983.

[Acajack]

Place d'Orléans opened in 1979, the Rideau Centre in 1983.

Yes, but the 1979 Place was a rinky dink neighbourhood mall with 30 or 40 stores. Maybe 50.

It underwent an expansion in the mid-1980s, and then a very big one around 1990 that made it relatively similar in size to the other big players at the time at least.

Rideau was basically its current size from day one when it opened in 1983.

[GreatTallNorth2]

I was talking to one of my friends here in the UK that visited Canada a year or so ago. He said the big box frenzy in Canada reminds him of the uk 20 years ago. They built big box stores everywhere. Now, things are turning full circle. Everything is about local, not outside the city. The big grocery players all have huge presence in neighbourhoods. Also, online grocery business is massive and the future, at least here. People has less time to shop and their online stores are awesome. Since there is so much competition, you get good service ordering online. Maybe loblaws will have the local concept with their purchase of shoppers.

Canada needs a lot more competition in the grocery space.

[SpongeG]

i shop online all the time and its much better when you want to buy something, i get far too easily distracted in a store and end up leaving with nothing, but fill up my visual shopping cart usually to get the free shipping :)

[SpongeG]

Samsung Canada Adding 35 Retail Locations

Posted by Cliff Boodoosingh on October 23, 2013 · 2 Comments

Samsung will increase its retail presence in Canada dramatically by Spring 2014.

The electronics giant is planning to open two new individual Samsung Experience Stores in Edmonton, AB and Richmond, B.C. plus 33 Samsung Experience Shops in partnership with Best Buy Canada and Future Shop.

James Politeski, President of Samsung Electronics Canada, said: “We are expanding our retail presence to ensure consumers get the most out of our innovation by learning how to leverage their mobile devices across our ecosystem of consumer electronics. Consumers nationwide will now have convenient access to explore and learn about our portfolio of mobile products, with the support of a trained Samsung Experience Consultant.”

In July 2012, Samsung launched its first Brand Experience Store in Burnaby, B.C. with positive consumer response for integrated shopping opportunities, dedicated training areas to familiarize customers with products, and greater access to new products.

The retail partnerships with Best Buy and Future Shop will occupy about 625 square feet at each of the 33 designated locations. Three shops are set to open shortly at Best Buy and Future Shop locations in Heartland Town Centre (Mississauga, ON) Deerfoot Meadow (Calgary, AB) and Edmonton North.

...

http://www.digitalhome.ca/2013/10/samsung-canada-adding-35-retail-locations/

[miketoronto]

Maybe the UK is different. But what I noticed at least in Italy, is that they tend to have one area with all the big box stores, and thats it. At least in the smaller cities.
So the city my family lives in, which is about the size of greater Ottawa. They have one zone with their version of Home Depo, and the hypermarket, etc.
They don't have like 10 of the same big box store in one city, like we do. Except for some of the supermarkets, which really are not big box.

[Loco101]

Just wondering what everyone thinks about Loblaws buying Shoppers Drug Mart.

I feel it's a smart business move by Loblaws. Many articles have stated that the greatest retail growth has been in dense urban cities, especially Toronto. I couldn't believe how many condos are under construction when I visited there a few months ago. There are currently many urban Shoppers/Pharmaprix locations and of course many across Canada.

Loblaws and SDM both have had amazingly good marketing techniques. It will be interesting to see if they decide to have more President's Choice products in shoppers and Life brand in Loblaws' stores which are under many banners.

[eternallyme]

http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/sears-canada-selling-leases-for-5-stores-including-toronto-flagship-1.1517956

The end of Sears? Closing 5 more stores, including the Eaton Centre flagship!!! Others closing:

* Sherway Gardens (Etobicoke, ON)
* Masonville Place (London, ON)
* Markville Centre (Markham, ON)
* Richmond Centre (Richmond, BC)

The Eaton Centre space - taking up about over 800,000 square feet - will be very hard to fill entirely (especially at the isolated higher levels), even though it is prime retail space.

[esquire]

I'm sure that this has been discussed in the Montreal forum, but I just read on Retail Insider that Ailes de la Mode is closing its main downtown Montreal store.

I recall when they opened on that site, in the old downtown Eaton's store, a while back (maybe around 2000 or thereabouts), they were charging hard as a big new player on the retail scene. I vaguely recall that they had a lot of the same buzz that Simons has now. Retail Insider says that they are now struggling, and are more of a discounter than the fashion emporium that they used to be?

What happened? Why did Ailes de la Mode's fortunes nosedive like that?

[Acajack]

http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/sears-canada-selling-leases-for-5-stores-including-toronto-flagship-1.1517956

The end of Sears? Closing 5 more stores, including the Eaton Centre flagship!!! Others closing:

* Sherway Gardens (Etobicoke, ON)
* Masonville Place (London, ON)
* Markville Centre (Markham, ON)
* Richmond Centre (Richmond, BC)

The Eaton Centre space - taking up about over 800,000 square feet - will be very hard to fill entirely (especially at the isolated higher levels), even though it is prime retail space.

I am surprised that our Sears at Les Galeries de Hull in central Gatineau is still open. But it is true it is the only department store in the central-western part of Gatineau (Hull and Aylmer), home to 125,000 people or more. (Although there are department stores accessible in Ottawa across the river.)

[Acajack]

I'm sure that this has been discussed in the Montreal forum, but I just read on Retail Insider that Ailes de la Mode is closing its main downtown Montreal store.

I recall when they opened on that site, in the old downtown Eaton's store, a while back (maybe around 2000 or thereabouts), they were charging hard as a big new player on the retail scene. I vaguely recall that they had a lot of the same buzz that Simons has now. Retail Insider says that they are now struggling, and are more of a discounter than the fashion emporium that they used to be?

What happened? Why did Ailes de la Mode's fortunes nosedive like that?

It grew way too fast and not always wisely.

The short-lived store at Bayshore in west end Ottawa was a big mistake and a huge money pit.

The downtown Montreal store was also ill-planned and a big financial drain but they held onto it as long as they could because of the powerful symbolism for a retailer to have a nice flagship on Ste-Catherine.

[Acajack]

You beat me to it. Indeed; the past 20 years saw a population increase of 50% whilst very little had be done on the side of retail in this city. Only one expansion at St-Laurent. The last major mall development goes back to the opening of the Rideau Centre, 30 years ago. Ottawa is just catching up.

Most retail analysts say that relative to population and income, the Ottawa-Gatineau market is significantly "under-stored", which means there is lots of untapped retail potential here.

Of course, given that these tend to be pro-retail development people, you have to take that with a grain of salt.

But certainly, the offerings here don't seem to be as vast as in other Canadian cities of comparable size, and even some of the smaller ones.

[bikegypsy]

It grew way too fast and not always wisely.

The short-lived store at Bayshore in west end Ottawa was a big mistake and a huge money pit.

The downtown Montreal store was also ill-planned and a big financial drain but they held onto it as long as they could because of the powerful symbolism for a retailer to have a nice flagship on Ste-Catherine.

I was working for Le Groupe SanFrancisco in Boucherville at that time. The administration was actually really happy with results in Ottawa; sales were very good; they never saw it as a mistake although the timing was horrendous. At the time, Les Ailes had a few stores but saw their Ottawa and downtown Montreal stores as their stars; but both stores were not making enough money. SF simply decided to focus on the Mtl --obviously being its raison d'etre and flagship-- store when things started to go down, in the hopes of weathering the storm. I had quit before they had gone bust in 2003. I think it was the ideal of having high end stores occupying these huge spaces that did them in.

[ScreamingViking]

Just wondering what everyone thinks about Loblaws buying Shoppers Drug Mart.

I feel it's a smart business move by Loblaws. Many articles have stated that the greatest retail growth has been in dense urban cities, especially Toronto. I couldn't believe how many condos are under construction when I visited there a few months ago. There are currently many urban Shoppers/Pharmaprix locations and of course many across Canada.

Loblaws and SDM both have had amazingly good marketing techniques. It will be interesting to see if they decide to have more President's Choice products in shoppers and Life brand in Loblaws' stores which are under many banners.

I think it's smart too. SDM has already spent a lot of money expanding its stores and building new ones, and it's very prominent in many large and small markets (at least in Ontario... I can't speak for other provinces, but perhaps others can)

The opportunities to share product lines between each store banner are big.

[YOWflier]

I was working for Le Groupe SanFrancisco in Boucherville at that time. The administration was actually really happy with results in Ottawa; sales were very good; they never saw it as a mistake although the timing was horrendous. At the time, Les Ailes had a few stores but saw their Ottawa and downtown Montreal stores as their stars; but both stores were not making enough money.Oh how nice it is to read some truth from time-to-time.

[craneSpotter]

Alcohol in B.C. grocery stores a popular suggestion, will be considered (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/alcohol-in-bc-grocery-stores-a-popular-suggestion-will-be-considered/article15136044/)

The Globe and Mail
Published Tuesday, Oct. 29 2013

The B.C. government will look at selling liquor in retail stores, says the parliamentary secretary in charge of the file.

The idea has come about due to an ongoing review of B.C.’s liquor laws, including 84 days of consultation with stakeholders that continues until Oct. 31.

“There is one theme that has been resoundingly popular with British Columbians, and that is the ability to buy liquor at grocery stores,” John Yap, the parliamentary secretary for liquor policy reform, told a news conference on Tuesday.

“The idea of selling beer and wine, particularly in grocery stores, has been such a popular one that we are going to start exploring which models might work for B.C.”

He conceded it will be a “big shift” for B.C. so the province will look carefully at the best models across North America for the province to learn from en route to balancing health and safety and convenience.

Yay. I think this will actually happen. It has been the number one request by the citizens of BC as the Province reviews, and seeks input for, liquor law reforms. I'm sure the grocery industry will be keen to offer their customers this choice.

Beer and wine sales have been allowed in Quebec grocery and corner stores for decades(?), and they are currently the only jurisdiction in Canada to allow it. In BC most grocery stores already have a private or government liquor store right next door, or at least within walking distance in the same shopping centre - so what's the difference if you put beer and wine in-store beside the pop!

Man we have crazy outdated liquor laws. When I travel, I can always buy wine or beer with my groceries...the US, Europe, Australia, Asia etc! I find it very convenient - not sure if those places have higher DUI or abuse rates than Canada...but I doubt it :)

CHANGE THE DAMN LAWS ALREADY!!!

[Denscity]

Sweet it looks like we'll be going from the most backward province reguarding liquor to one of the most forward. I like the liquor at the beach idea as well. And patios open till 2am and not 11pm.

[north 42]

Just wondering what everyone thinks about Loblaws buying Shoppers Drug Mart.

I feel it's a smart business move by Loblaws. Many articles have stated that the greatest retail growth has been in dense urban cities, especially Toronto. I couldn't believe how many condos are under construction when I visited there a few months ago. There are currently many urban Shoppers/Pharmaprix locations and of course many across Canada.

Loblaws and SDM both have had amazingly good marketing techniques. It will be interesting to see if they decide to have more President's Choice products in shoppers and Life brand in Loblaws' stores which are under many banners.

I read a few weeks back that they will be carrying many of each others store brands, which is great for Shoppers since this will increase the amount of food available in their stores!

[miketoronto]

The Eaton Centre space - taking up about over 800,000 square feet - will be very hard to fill entirely (especially at the isolated higher levels), even though it is prime retail space.

I am so tired of the North American attitude that we can't have big and interesting stores anymore.

Funny how department stores in Europe still create massive stores in downtowns, yet we can't seem to do that here?
Milan for example just saw a beautiful new downtown department store open with something like 9 floors of shopping, including several floors with food and restaurants, etc.
We need unique fun stuff like that here in Canada again.

American department stores including Nordstroms have lost the art of great retail, and while it will be nice to fill the SEARS space, it will not be anything special. Just your typical carbon copy cheap American disposable design.

To bad we can't be like the Europeans and actually built another great flagship to complement The Bay store.



This is the the La Rinascente Flagship in central Milan, Italy. The store includes rooftop restaurants open until midnight, with dedicated elevators. These are the kind of things we should be thinking about for the Eaton Centre SEARS location.
http://www.rinascente.it/upl/cms/images/20130402/124940373_8951.jpg

http://www.rinascente.it/upl/cms/images/20130326/095706586_1979.JPG

http://www.rinascente.it/upl/cms/images/20130326/095725680_3680.JPG


Photos courtesy of La Rinascente.

[taal]

FYI only bottom 3 floors of Sears Toronto are available, they are keeping their HQ (surprised they need 4 floors ..)


Mike TO - Well I'd argue the Bay on Queen is like that already (it has food / restaurants / shopping) obviously less extravagant

[caltrane74]

The Bay Queen is awfully nice, almost as nice as those pictures you posted sans rooftop patio. Although the prices for some goods are quite high in comparison to discount retailers.

I guess they have to keep up appearances.

[eternallyme]

http://www.retail-insider.com/

Good analysis there. Is there ANYONE willing to fill 800,000 square feet though? That much space for only fashion (i.e. no home appliances, furniture, etc.) would be almost unheard of these days, and those hard goods are not exactly the most profitable.

I think the locations at Markville (less upscale area) and Masonville (mid-sized city) are going to be more difficult to fill though. Masonville is very productive, but are new anchors really interested in a city of 400,000? Meanwhile, Markville is not one of the most productive malls, so it is unlikely to get anything higher-end. Subdividing that space for smaller stores or non-retail uses is probably the best they will be able to do.

For comparison, what are typical retail options in US urban areas of population 200,000 to 500,000 (i.e. lower mid-sized)?

[GreatTallNorth2]

http://www.retail-insider.com/

Good analysis there. Is there ANYONE willing to fill 800,000 square feet though? That much space for only fashion (i.e. no home appliances, furniture, etc.) would be almost unheard of these days, and those hard goods are not exactly the most profitable.

I think the locations at Markville (less upscale area) and Masonville (mid-sized city) are going to be more difficult to fill though. Masonville is very productive, but are new anchors really interested in a city of 400,000? Meanwhile, Markville is not one of the most productive malls, so it is unlikely to get anything higher-end. Subdividing that space for smaller stores or non-retail uses is probably the best they will be able to do.

For comparison, what are typical retail options in US urban areas of population 200,000 to 500,000 (i.e. lower mid-sized)?

You remember that is was Cadillac Fairview, the owner of these malls, that bought the leases back from Sears, right? No mall owner would just decide to buy out the leases without having a replacement tenant. Masonville wouldn't just say "Right, we don't want this large anchor department store, so let's pay money so we can have empty space". Doesn't make sense, so they probably do have a tenant lined up.

[caltrane74]

It will be so nice to get that Sear's Sign off the Eaton Centre and have it replaced with a Macy's or Nordstrom's.

So chic, just want Dundas Square needs to go upscale and clear out the trash.

[miketoronto]

They probably won't do it, because we don't think big anymore in North America.
But that Eaton Centre SEARS location could really be turned into something special.
Just think of restaurants with outdoor patios a few floors up, like they have across the street at the AMC Dundas Square complex.
Retail could fill the lower floors of the old SEARS. Put in a huge grand atrium, connecting all the things together.

These ideas that should be floated around. But I can guarantee are probably not even being thought of.

But such a bold redevelopment like that could help the Eaton Centre compete with Yorkdale again, as Yorkdale has really been sealing the thunder lately, and is undermining our downtown.

[eternallyme]

They probably won't do it, because we don't think big anymore in North America.
But that Eaton Centre SEARS location could really be turned into something special.
Just think of restaurants with outdoor patios a few floors up, like they have across the street at the AMC Dundas Square complex.
Retail could fill the lower floors of the old SEARS. Put in a huge grand atrium, connecting all the things together.

These ideas that should be floated around. But I can guarantee are probably not even being thought of.

But such a bold redevelopment like that could help the Eaton Centre compete with Yorkdale again, as Yorkdale has really been sealing the thunder lately, and is undermining our downtown.

Even within downtown, Bloor-Yorkville seems more prominent than the Eaton Centre these days.

[craneSpotter]

Anybody going to try Amazon.ca for grocery items...??

http://www.timescolonist.com/business/victoria-grocers-ready-for-amazon-delivery-invasion-1.680728


Victoria grocers ready for Amazon delivery invasion

Online retailing giant Amazon’s foray into the grocery market in Canada doesn’t seem to be fazing the Victoria-based veterans of the grocery-delivery game.

Thrifty Foods, which has offered an online delivery service since 2004, is taking the news Amazon will now be delivering food directly to Canadians’ doorsteps very much in stride.

“We’re not too concerned. Our online shopping program has been growing in popularity, especially in the last few years,” said Christian Arbez, Thrifty Foods’ manager of web, online and customer service. “We’ve been doing it since 2004 and we focus on fresh — the same quality and freshness customers have come to expect from us at Thrifty Foods is the same experience customers receive online.”

Amazon launched its grocery service Thursday with an initial selection of 15,000 non-perishable products such as coffee, cereal and baby food from Campbell, Nestle, Pepsi and Kellogg.

The launch doesn’t include perishables such as milk, fruits or vegetables.

[caltrane74]

Sears lays the smackkdown on Canada Goose. Says the company can't lay claim to putting a logo in a circle.

Personally, I think spending $1000 dollars on a parka is ridiculous. Now spending $1000 dollars on a leather jacket or some nice boots, thats another thing...


http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/business/canada-goose-sues-sears-for-trademark-infringement-over-distinctive-parkas-1.1534238

[casper]

Anybody going to try Amazon.ca for grocery items...??

http://www.timescolonist.com/business/victoria-grocers-ready-for-amazon-delivery-invasion-1.680728

I am sticking to the Thrifty Foods online system....

https://www.thriftyfoodsonline.com//Online/Default.aspx

The product is high quality and sourced locally to the extent possible. Even the software that runs the online system comes form a local company in the Victoria area.

[Nouvellecosse]

So buying groceries online is a thing now? This is something that people really do?

[casper]

So buying groceries online is a thing now? This is something that people really do?

The Thrifty (part of Sobeys) on-line system has been doing its thing for ten years now. A local company (www.mightyoaks.com) wrote the software.

Thrifty's have a fleet of delivery trucks you see them all over the Island. They are also in parts of the lower mainland now. The system is pretty easy to use. Given it actually comes out of your local grocery store the product is pretty fresh and good quality. Looks like it is something people are actually doing.

[GreatTallNorth2]

So buying groceries online is a thing now? This is something that people really do?

MOST people in the United Kingdom do the majority of their food shopping online. Because there is so much competition for the business, the companies do it right. You don't pay more to shop online apart for about. £2-3 delivery charge, but often there are discounts so you actually get the food for less than buying in store. Let's be honest, how many people like driving to the grocery store, parking, spending an hour in the store, queuing up to pay and then loading your car and taking it in the house? I'd rather have a nice tesco truck pull up and have a guy carry it in for me at the time I select. The big shops including Tescos, asda, sainsburys and a new online shop called ocado all have every item they sell online. This has brought a resurgence of the smaller local shops where after you do a big order, you rely on the smaller neighbourhood shop for the smaller stuff you might need. It will come to canada eventually.

[Nouvellecosse]

I've always walked to the grocery store and only drive if I want to go to a store that carries something a nearby store doesn't. Going to the store in person gives access to specials that aren't advertised but I can also see advantages to the online option. Hopefully it will be available locally at some point.

[casper]

I've always walked to the grocery store and only drive if I want to go to a store that carries something a nearby store doesn't. Going to the store in person gives access to specials that aren't advertised but I can also see advantages to the online option. Hopefully it will be available locally at some point.

One of the nice things I find with the Thrifty system is it has the same specials as the local store. I have never compared the prices but I think they are very close to if not the same as the local store.

[isaidso]

It will come to canada eventually.

Canada has had Grocery Gateway for about a decade at least. Even if it were the same price as the grocery store, I'd rather go to the store.

[WhipperSnapper]

My ideal for the Eaton Centre Sears is to see it torn down with an extension of the mall built with dozens of new spaces for stores. I prefer to buy from a boutique than a department store.

[casper]

Canada has had Grocery Gateway for about a decade at least. Even if it were the same price as the grocery store, I'd rather go to the store.

In addition to Thrifty on Vancouver Island there is also Stong's in the Vancouver Areas.

Is Grocery Gateway a national service or just in the east?

[Rusty van Reddick]

So buying groceries online is a thing now? This is something that people really do?

Seriously? I had delivery from Calgary Co-op in 2002, though that service ended. Ordering groceries online (with home delivery) has been around for many years- and before that, ordering groceries on the phone was an urban thing since the 1960s.

[isaidso]

In addition to Thrifty on Vancouver Island there is also Stong's in the Vancouver Areas.

Is Grocery Gateway a national service or just in the east?

It might just be GTA, but it's been around for a long time. They must be doing ok as I see their trucks driving around on a regular basis.

[Denscity]

My ideal for the Eaton Centre Sears is to see it torn down with an extension of the mall built with dozens of new spaces for stores. I prefer to buy from a boutique than a department store.

Not a teardown but one floor of Sears in Downtown Vancouver is being divided up into a bunch more retail spaces for a mall expansion.

[isaidso]

Personally, I think spending $1000 dollars on a parka is ridiculous. Now spending $1000 dollars on a leather jacket or some nice boots, thats another thing...


You're paying for quality and expensive labour. Part of the appeal of buying a Bulova is that the time piece is Swiss. The appeal of Canada Goose is that it's made in a country that knows something about making winter gear. It's not made in Bangladesh by people making $1/day.

Canadian labour is expensive. I'm sure you don't work for $1/day. Are your rates ridiculous?

[WhipperSnapper]

You don't need to spend a thousand dollars to buy made in Canada. Likewise, a $20 polo shirt and a $150 polo shirt are both going to be made in countries that pay $1 as you put it. For the most part, it's just people displaying their wealth and shrewd entrepreneurs taking advantage of it.

[caltrane74]

You're paying for quality and expensive labour. Part of the appeal of buying a Bulova is that the time piece is Swiss. The appeal of Canada Goose is that it's made in a country that knows something about making winter gear. It's not made in Bangladesh by people making $1/day.

Canadian labour is expensive. I'm sure you don't work for $1/day. Are your rates ridiculous?

Well I said I wouldn't mind spending a grand on something that I really want.


I just don't get spending a grand on a parka, unless you're going to the artic or something.

[miketoronto]

You all post about boring chain store and restaurant expansions into Canada, and nothing on a truly interesting retail expansion project, the expansion of the downtown Montreal Ogilvy store.
The expanded store will become the largest luxury store in Canada, and will include Holt Renfrew, but under the Ogilvy name.

This is an interesting project, which shows a national chain like Holt Renfrew can make decisions to keep history and play it off in different cities. Keeping the Ogilvy name and other touches will really set this store apart from other places, especially Nordstroms, which tends to do boring suburban looking stores.

This is also a great shot in the arm for downtown Montreal retail and one of Canada's legendary stores.

[J.OT13]

Don't know if this was posted before;

HUDSON'S BAY NEW SIGNAGE GOES UP ON ITS QUEEN STREET FLAGSHIP
Hudson's Bay stores are in the process of installing new signage, consistent with its new 'Hudson's Bay' branding and logo font. The first Canadian Hudson's Bay store to get the new signage was the Downtown Vancouver store, which saw its signs change in October 2012.

The chain's Toronto flagship is finally getting updated signage, and Skeezix from Urban Toronto took the above photo. We think it looks better than what was previously there, as can be seen in the image below (taken in May, 2012, according to Google).


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KqFBDtsQ0Uc/Uo2yFzlgw2I/AAAAAAAAGps/O4BOqST5zoI/s640/hudsons+bay+yonge+richmond+toronto+retail+insider.png
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QcSnO3lteFE/Uo2xuM1YNQI/AAAAAAAAGpk/cBPQhaJTl_0/s640/hudsons+bay+toronto+new+signage.jpg

http://www.retail-insider.com/2013/11/hudsons-bay-new-signage-goes-up-on-its.html

[Nouvellecosse]

The old one was colourful, vibrant and unique, whereas the new one is dull, timid and predictable. But I suppose if they want to go upscale they need to try and eliminate anything to funky, quirky, and colourful, as the gentry would not classify such attributes as being refined.

[Martin Mtl]

I think the old logo was very dated. I much prefer the new one, classier.

[Martin Mtl]

You all post about boring chain store and restaurant expansions into Canada, and nothing on a truly interesting retail expansion project, the expansion of the downtown Montreal Ogilvy store.
The expanded store will become the largest luxury store in Canada, and will include Holt Renfrew, but under the Ogilvy name.

This is an interesting project, which shows a national chain like Holt Renfrew can make decisions to keep history and play it off in different cities. Keeping the Ogilvy name and other touches will really set this store apart from other places, especially Nordstroms, which tends to do boring suburban looking stores.

This is also a great shot in the arm for downtown Montreal retail and one of Canada's legendary stores.

Here are the details:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Ogilvy+Holt+Renfrew+merge+into+luxury+megastore/9184379/story.html
Ogilvy, Holt Renfrew to merge into luxury megastore

Construction will begin in 2014, with a design celebrating ‘familiar elements of the distinctive and stylish Ogilvy building’

BY EVA FRIEDE, GAZETTE STYLE EDITOR NOVEMBER 19, 2013
http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/cms/binary/9184356.jpg

.

MONTREAL — The luxury merger of Ogilvy and Holt Renfrew in a massive expanded store is great news for Montreal, staff, retailers and analysts agree.
The official word that Montreal's two luxury department stores will merge in an expanded Ogilvy in 2017 came Tuesday, after more than two years of widespread speculation that just this was in the works after the owners of Holt Renfrew bought Ogilvy in fall of 2011.
Selfridges Group Ltd., owned by the Weston family of Toronto, also controls Loblaws and the Selfridges department store in the U.K., among other retailers.
And Ogilvy has won the top billing on the new 220,000-square-foot store, which will take the rather clunky name "Ogilvy, part of the Holt Renfrew & Co. collection." The store will be unique to Montreal and the largest in the Holt Renfrew chain, which has 10 stores plus a pop-up across Canada.
In French, the name will be Ogilvy, membre de la collection Holt Renfrew & Co.
"We see it as Ogilvy reimagined by Holt Renfrew,'' said Mark Derbyshire, president of Holt Renfrew, accompanied in Ogilvy's plush wood-panelled executive offices by the new senior vice-president of the store, Joanne Nemeroff, a Montrealer who formerly led La Senza. In good form, she wore Marie Saint Pierre, the Montreal designer carried by Ogilvy's but not Holt's.
It's taking the best of the storied brand of Ogilvy and the best of the heritage brand Holt Renfrew and creating something new, Derbyshire said.
But details of the $60-million expansion into a new building on the site of adjacent the Hotel de la Montagne were scant.
The hotel is being demolished and construction will begin in 2014. The new building will be five storeys and the two wings will connect seamlessly, Derbyshire said. Architects and plans are not finalized.
One big question is what retail tenants will remain.
Both stores have a mix of tenants, but Ogilvy's has about 80 per cent of its spaced leased to retailers like Louis Vuitton, Ports 1961, Collange, Michael Kors, Bleu Comme le Ciel and Design Louis George, the fifth floor furniture concession which has already announced it is moving by the end of the year. In Holt Renfrew, Chanel, Tiffany, Hermès and Agent Provocateur are among the tenant retailers.
Speaking simultaneously during much of the joint interview, Nemeroff and Derbyshire pointed out that the plans are a work in progress.
"The good thing is we have three years," Nemeroff said.
"We have to work through the process," Derbyshire added, asked if that percentage of leasing was going to be lowered. "Lease operation is a core part of our business.''
"At this point, it's business as usual," Nemeroff said.
Asked about their futures in Ogilvy's, retail tenants said they had no idea what was in store.
Marie-Hélène Chartray, owner of the Bleu Comme le Ciel jewelry concession, said the new store will be the best place to shop in Montreal. "I'm pretty proud about that. Let's hope I'm part of their plans."
Derbyshire said the retailer has spent two years talking to customers. The tenant mix will meet their needs, Nemeroff said.
According to Derbyshire, Ogilvy customers told them, "Re-energize my shop."
The Holt customer wants more depth, breadth and assortment of brands — new brands, the pair said.
As for overlap in such areas as shoes, Nemeroff said there was room for a much bigger shoe hall.
Asked if it will have its own zip code, as Saks famously did with its shoe floor in New York, they laughed.
Both executives acknowledged that many Montrealers shop outside this city, whether it be in Toronto, the rest of Canada, or abroad.
"I think if we can give them what's equivalent to what they can get anywhere else they would be happy to shop in Montreal," Nemeroff said.
Staffing in the future will increase, Derbyshire said.
Both Ogilvy and Holt Renfrew are heritage brands founded in Quebec: Ogilvy in 1866 in Montreal, Holt's in 1837 in Quebec City.
Ogilvy's, on Ste-Catherine St. W. at the corner of de la Montagne, is the larger property, with 120,000 square feet. Holt Renfrew, on Sherbrooke St. W, just up the street on de la Montagne, has 64,000 square feet.
Asked what they think people will actually call the store, the executives had no answers.
The banner is to bring together the two brands. It will be up to Steeve Lapierre, a longtime Ogilvy's VP of marketing and visual display, to make the concept work, from the bag to the signage, Nemeroff said.
"It's really important that the two names are in this," Nemeroff said.
As for the future of the Holt Renfrew building, that was not on Tuesday's agenda.
Currently, Holt tenants Dior and Hermès have storefronts on Sherbrooke St. W.
Asked if Holt's luxury tenants, which also includes Chanel, might like to have independent storefronts on Sherbrooke after the move, Derbyshire said: "We would hope that would continue to be great partners."
Nemeroff said she expected there will be a shift to that part of the city, where many new developments are underway.
"I think it will be a destination,'' Derbyshire said. "It will be the store that people remember."
Retail analyst Tony Flanz, president of Think Retail, said there is already a shift westward downtown, sparked by the Apple store and augmented by a strong core of "dynamic retailers'' like Lululemon, Urban Outfitters and Fossil.
It's great news for the city and very positive for both brands, said retail analyst Terry Henderson, president of the Quebec and Atlantic divisions of J.C. Williams Group.
"It is a piece of property in Montreal that has a mystique to it,'' he said, adding he sees the potential for the Ogilvy brand to expand beyond Quebec.
"Strategically, I think it's a good move," said Jeff Berkowitz, president of Aurora Realty Consultants Inc.
"They're going to create a really interesting experience for Montreal."
What Tuesday's announcement failed to answer were questions about plans for a neighbouring hotel and condo development on de la Montagne St. that had been the subject of previous media reports.
What was originally supposed to be a multi-level urban mall was scaled back by about 50,000 square feet, a source told The Gazette. The project's initial multi-level urban mall concept was dropped because it would have been difficult to find retailers willing to lease space on higher floors with less traffic, La Presse reported last month.
Made public by the city of Montreal in 2012 — at the height of the low-interest rate-fuelled real estate boom — the initial Maison Ogilvy plan called for a $150-million project, including an urban mall with underground parking, adjacent to a mixed-use project, combining 110 condos, a 120-room hotel and ground-floor retail space.
The development was initially the brainchild of Ogilvy-owner Selfridges, in partnership with the Quebec Federation of Labour's Fonds de solidarité and Montreal-based developer Devimco Inc. But with the Fonds selling its stake in late 2012, and Devimco changing its corporate structure into two entities — Devimco Immobilier and Carbonleo — the ownership of the project has now evolved.
Carbonleo, headed by president Jean-François Breton, is the owner of the parking lot sandwiched between the Hotel de la Montagne and Wanda's Strip Club. The lot is still going to be transformed into a mixed-use development, but details of the project will only be known in the spring, said Carbonleo spokesperson André Bouthillier.
Both stores will remain open during construction.

WITH FILES FROM ALLISON LAMPERT
efriede@montrealgazette.com
Twitter: evitastyle

[J.OT13]

I like the cleaner upscale look of the new font, but I feel they should also place their logo on the buildings to make the brand stand out more;

http://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/hudsons_bay_logo_seal_detail.gif

[Nouvellecosse]

I think the old logo was very dated. I much prefer the new one, classier.
I agree it was definitely dated, but I'm tired of the assumption that old has to mean inferior, and that it's good to sweep away all character and distinctiveness in order to appear classy or refined.

[Loco101]

The old one was colourful, vibrant and unique, whereas the new one is dull, timid and predictable. But I suppose if they want to go upscale they need to try and eliminate anything to funky, quirky, and colourful, as the gentry would not classify such attributes as being refined.

The former logo was actually taken from Morgan's which was a Montreal based department store chain that once had stores in Quebec and Ontario. HBC bought out Morgan's in the 1960s. Apparently the first large "The Bay" stores were former Morgan's locations and they used the same font for recognition purposes.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6e/Morgan%27s.png/250px-Morgan%27s.png

[Nouvellecosse]

I'm familiar with the history.

The ironic part is that in another 20 or 30 years when the new "modern" signage is no longer considered modern, the previous signage will be reintroduced and marketed as getting back to it's root and honouring its core traditions or some such. and people will love it's fun, colouful vibe and see it as retro or classic, and wonder why it was ever changed in the first place.

[MTLskyline]

I would say that the expansion of Ogilvy's is a good thing as long as they keep some of Ogilvy's traditions like the bagpiper the Christmas display window alive. It's unfortunate that they are vacating the Art-Deco Holt Renfrew building, but I'm sure it will find appropriate usage (perhaps something art related since the MMFA is on the next block)

De la Montagne will be greatly improved with the removal of the Hotel de la Montagne, the expansion of Ogilvy's and the construction of a new condo/hotel tower. Hopefully Wanda's will sell...

[J.OT13]

I would say that the expansion of Ogilvy's is a good thing as long as they keep some of Ogilvy's traditions like the bagpiper the Christmas display window alive. It's unfortunate that they are vacating the Art-Deco Holt Renfrew building, but I'm sure it will find appropriate usage (perhaps something art related since the MMFA is on the next block)

De la Montagne will be greatly improved with the removal of the Hotel de la Montagne, the expansion of Ogilvy's and the construction of a new condo/hotel tower. Hopefully Wanda's will sell...

Might they open an hr2 in the old building?

[esquire]

I think the old logo was very dated. I much prefer the new one, classier.

Even the name itself ("The Bay") is a bit dated... for some reason, it was a bit of a fad to shorten corporate names that way during the fifties and sixties. For example, banks started calling themselves "The Royal", "The Commerce", "The Toronto-Dominion", etc., but it didn't stick for very long, while HBC held on to that naming convention for a good half-century.

[miketoronto]

Might they open an hr2 in the old building?

That would be a totally cheap thing to do to such a nice building. And I don't think hr2 would ever open near a real Holt Renfrew, as it would cheapen the brand.

As it is, I think Holt Renfrew made a mistake with opening a downmarket store. They should stick to high end. You don't see Harrods, Liberty, or any of the worlds other major high end stores opening up downmarket branches, except for oh yes in the USA, where stores just don't have class anymore.

Holt Renfrew better get busy expanding their Bloor Street flagship. We can't have Montreal beating us in having the largest luxury store in Canada :).

[J.OT13]

Even the name itself ("The Bay") is a bit dated... for some reason, it was a bit of a fad to shorten corporate names that way during the fifties and sixties. For example, banks started calling themselves "The Royal", "The Commerce", "The Toronto-Dominion", etc., but it didn't stick for very long, while HBC held on to that naming convention for a good half-century.

They're doing it all over again (shortened or initials); Scotia Bank, CIBC, RBC, TD, BMO.

Even colleges and Universities are doing it; uOttawa (University of Ottawa), Western (University of Western Ontario), le Cité (La Cité Collégiale), AC (Algonquin College)...

[isaidso]

The only shortened names I use are CIBC and Scotiabank. I go by the long name for the other banks. Then again, I still say Skydome and Maple Leaf Gardens.

[J.OT13]

The only shortened names I use are CIBC and Scotiabank. I go by the long name for the other banks. Then again, I still say Skydome and Maple Leaf Gardens.

Ditto. I do the same with the Corel Centre and pre-amalgamation cities.

[Rusty van Reddick]

They're doing it all over again (shortened or initials); Scotia Bank, CIBC, RBC, TD, BMO.

Even colleges and Universities are doing it; uOttawa (University of Ottawa), Western (University of Western Ontario), le Cité (La Cité Collégiale), AC (Algonquin College)...

Colleges and unis aren't "doing it"; there have been shorthand ways to refer to unis for at least a century. And Western University is the new name of UWO.

[eternallyme]

It is looking increasingly likely that Sears Canada is heading for bankruptcy...800 losing their jobs, and it may be for sale.

Second-tier stores would have no obvious anchor to fill the malls, and that could be the downfall of a lot of regional malls.