Canadian Retail Thread

[Martin Mtl]

That is a stunning success. Cormier has many other such projects in the pipeline for Toronto, including a "cat square" in the west.


Toronto really does suck at building great public spaces

http://www.claudecormier.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/berczy-park-71.jpg

http://www.claudecormier.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/berczy-park-67.jpg

Source (http://www.claudecormier.com/en/projet/berczy-park/)

[WhipperSnapper]

Everyone hates True North's Jardin Windsor. Over at MtlUrb, it is the most hated urban intervention in Montreal for the last few decades. A huge missed opportunity, but back then nothing else was being build in this city. It's actually became a running gag. Hopefully, it will be completely surrounded by better and larger towers (CF's quad Windsor project) and be forgotten.

Thank you. You missed the point but, by the missing the point confirmed that the city is as big a "sellout" to developers as Toronto.

[Acajack]

That's simply not true as much as you may or may not wish it to be. Can't be certain. You are reasonable but, you do get wrapped up in your agenda.

It's not that revolutionary or scandalous to observe that Toronto and Ontario are more corporatist and Montréal and Québec are more statist, for lack of better terms.

[Martin Mtl]

Thank you. You missed the point but, by the missing the point confirmed that the city is as big a "sellout" to developers as Toronto.

That's okay dear. I often miss the point of your posts.

[Rico Rommheim]

I must be one of the few people on these boards that can appreciate the objective value of jardins Windsor. It brought thousands of residents (including families) to a former urban rail yard, the architecture is boring but not offensive, and was always understood to eventually be surrounded by other developments, and not to be a beacon.

Anyways the overwhelming feel of ranting and raving and bitching on mtlurb is nauseating. I stopped even visiting that place a while ago. Some of the members there are even worst then the ones here.

[WhipperSnapper]

It's not that revolutionary or scandalous to observe that Toronto and Ontario are more corporatist and Montréal and Québec are more statist, for lack of better terms.

Yeah, it fits the Bay Street stereotype. It's inconsequential should there be any truth to it. There's certainly far more corruption in Montreal and a lot more shaky private/public partnerships. Dundas Square as a microcosm of how the city of Toronto operates is plain nuts.

[kwoldtimer]

One could suffer whiplash just reading that segue. :cheers:

[WhipperSnapper]

I must be one of the few people on these boards that can appreciate the objective value of jardins Windsor. It brought thousands of residents (including families) to a former urban rail yard, the architecture is boring but not offensive, and was always understood to eventually be surrounded by other developments, and not to be a beacon.

Anyways the overwhelming feel of ranting and raving and bitching on mtlurb is nauseating. I stopped even visiting that place a while ago. Some of the members there are even worst then the ones here.

The same at UrbanToronto . Cityplace is not deserving of the vile and contempt it receives.

[casper]

Amazon wants to replace the postal service and be able to deliver everything to your door. What other reason for Whole Foods aside from they belive they can use WF distribution channels and piggy back to deliver groceries to consumers.

Absolutely, Amazon is a logistics and distribution company. They are not a retailer in the traditional sense.

Whole Foods does not do home delivery today, but I suspect that is what Amazon will want in short order. If they have a reason to deliver to your home every day or two that drives down their costs and makes them more profitable.

Amazon is profitable in the sense that any point in time they could constrain product development and expansion to turn a profit. They just chose to reinvest and grow.

I am surprised more small and independent grocery stores don't adopt platforms such as MightyPlus (www.mightyplus.com) to try and compete with Amazon and Walmart.

[WhipperSnapper]

Technology has certainly changed. That said, Grocery Gateway has to be on the backs of anyone's mind when considering an e commerce grocery store. People want to pick and choose their fresh produce.

In this area, I have notice a huge difference between the average Canadian and average American shoppers. I wonder if there are any stats that compare the percentage of fresh produce that fill Canadian grocery bags to American.

[casper]

Technology has certainly changed. That said, Grocery Gateway has to be on the backs of anyone's mind when considering an e commerce grocery store. People want to pick and choose their fresh produce.

In this area, I have notice a huge difference between the average Canadian and average American shoppers. I wonder if there are any stats that compare the percentage of fresh produce that fill Canadian grocery bags to American.

Grocery Gateway is basically Longos. They appear to be the only real player in Toronto.

You get over to the West Coast there is far more options and it is a much more competitive market for online groceries. In Vancouver or Victoria you have Fresh St Markets, Stong's, SPUD, Thrifty Foods (Sobeys), Choices Market, Save-On-Foods all doing online ordering and delivery. That is in addition to a host of start-ups.

[Acajack]

Yeah, it fits the Bay Street stereotype. It's inconsequential should there be any truth to it. There's certainly far more corruption in Montreal and a lot more shaky private/public partnerships. Dundas Square as a microcosm of how the city of Toronto operates is plain nuts.

To invoke a common SSP narrative - this cannot be stated so conclusively.

It may very well be that the simple fact that Quebec has way better investigative journalists than the rest of the country means that more corruption cases are brought to light.

:P

[Loco101]

It's not that revolutionary or scandalous to observe that Toronto and Ontario are more corporatist and Montréal and Québec are more statist, for lack of better terms.

I agree with that. Those differences even exist between Northeastern Ontario and Northwestern Quebec. We really see them in the relationships between governments (provincial and municipal) and mining and forestry companies.

[JHikka]

It may very well be that the simple fact that Quebec has way better investigative journalists than the rest of the country means that more corruption cases are brought to light.

You mean the province where the police will lie to obtain warrants to track these journalists' phones (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/quebec-journalists-testify-at-inquiry-into-police-surveillance-of-reporters/article35325295/)?

Ms. Denis was angry during her testimony as she described her discovery in recent weeks that provincial police Lieutenant Patrick Duclos swore in an affidavit in 2014 that he believed she was having an affair with the then-head of an anti-corruption squad, Inspector Denis Morin, to justify a warrant to obtain her private telephone information.

Or the Charbonneau Commission, or other construction related incidents (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/preliminary-hearing-to-last-three-weeks-in-montreal-superhospital-fraud-case/article23486447/). Either the investigative journalists are really good or there's simply more corruption.

:P

[WhipperSnapper]

To invoke a common SSP narrative - this cannot be stated so conclusively.

It may very well be that the simple fact that Quebec has way better investigative journalists than the rest of the country means that more corruption cases are brought to light.

:P

It would be the case through my business dealings and not the media. True. It's a small world though.

[WhipperSnapper]

Grocery Gateway is basically Longos. They appear to be the only real player in Toronto.

You get over to the West Coast there is far more options and it is a much more competitive market for online groceries. In Vancouver or Victoria you have Fresh St Markets, Stong's, SPUD, Thrifty Foods (Sobeys), Choices Market, Save-On-Foods all doing online ordering and delivery. That is in addition to a host of start-ups.

Grocery Gateway was purchased by Longos at a severely discount rate. It started out as one of the first virtual grocery websites and attracted millions in investment all across North America to never make a cent. Groceries stores having a delivery service has been around long before the internet.

[Acajack]

Well the Charbonneau commission is the direct result of the work of reporters Alain Gravel and Marie-Maude Denis. So this does not disprove what I said.

Speaking of small words, I know Ms. Denis' father personally. He is a Radio-Canada producer in Ottawa.

[JHikka]

Well the Charbonneau commission is the direct result of the work of reporters Alain Gravel and Marie-Maude Denis. So this does not disprove what I said.

Your argument is literally "If Toronto had better investigative journalists they would have just as much corruption as Montreal". I don't buy it.

[hipster duck]

Grocery Gateway was purchased by Longos at a severely discount rate. It started out as one of the first virtual grocery websites and attracted millions in investment all across North America to never make a cent. Groceries stores having a delivery service has been around long before the internet.

I do/buy a lot of things online, but I draw the line at food shopping. Food shopping is an experience for me - often the highlight of my Saturday mornings. I don't feel burdened by the need to leave my house - indeed, I live in a tiny condo and I look for every excuse to leave my condo on weekends - and I like the sights and smells of food shopping. It's an experience for me.

Plus, as a Chinese person, I'm adamant about personally selecting the fruits and vegetables that go in my cart, and I'll jostle with the lao tais to pick the right mango, the ripest tomato, the parsley that's browning the least. Nothing is less appealing to me than getting my groceries delivered by a stranger, opening the box, and finding tomatoes that are off white and hard as a tennis ball.

Inconvenience is the new convenience, especially when it comes to food. Perhaps if cooking brings you no joy, and your objective is to just stuff your stomach full of calories you would be a good candidate for online food shopping.

[kwoldtimer]

My corruption is way more corrupt than your corruption, by a corrupt country mile! Although Montreal does seem somehow more ... European in its corruption. :haha:

[Martin Mtl]

The fact that the powerful Montreal Mafia was so involved in the construction industry for so long didn't help. It seems to have change after the Commission. The city of Montreal now has a permanent controller office through which every construction contract pass by for aproval; it already cancelled many contracts with collusion attached to them. So it's working to some degree.

[Djesus777]

To invoke a common SSP narrative - this cannot be stated so conclusively.

It may very well be that the simple fact that Quebec has way better investigative journalists than the rest of the country means that more corruption cases are brought to light.

:P

As someone who is involved with politics and has connections, those who think MTL is the most corrupt city in the country.... you couldn't be more wrong, that's all I'll say. :runaway:

[Acajack]

Your argument is literally "If Toronto had better investigative journalists they would have just as much corruption as Montreal". I don't buy it.

No my point is actually that there is no way of knowing for sure either way, as no one in the rest of Canada truly does the job that Gravel, Denis et al. do.

[Loco101]

As someone who is involved with politics and has connections, those who think MTL is the most corrupt city in the country.... you couldn't be more wrong, that's all I'll say. :runaway:

Timmins is very corrupt and most people here know it. If you're a wealthy developer here you don't have to worry about by-laws, being approved by council to start building and actually do what's in your plan and agreement. City administrators lately have been known to make changes to development agreements without notifying council and then it comes up as a surprise to both council and the public.

[niwell]

Smaller places in general tend to be more corrupt. The number of stories I've heard from small-town Ontario is intense - the implications just aren't as obvious. Check out the results of the Elliott Lake Inquiry for some insight into what I mean.


No my point is actually that there is no way of knowing for sure either way, as no one in the rest of Canada truly does the job that Gravel, Denis et al. do.

To be fair, Toronto journalists FOI virtually everything the City does, and there's a huge amount of scrutiny in general. This is how the Rob Ford scandal broke and we know about things like the (sort of) mismanagement of TCHC. It's to the point where small things often get blown way out of proportion in the media.

[casper]

I do/buy a lot of things online, but I draw the line at food shopping. Food shopping is an experience for me - often the highlight of my Saturday mornings. I don't feel burdened by the need to leave my house - indeed, I live in a tiny condo and I look for every excuse to leave my condo on weekends - and I like the sights and smells of food shopping. It's an experience for me.

Plus, as a Chinese person, I'm adamant about personally selecting the fruits and vegetables that go in my cart, and I'll jostle with the lao tais to pick the right mango, the ripest tomato, the parsley that's browning the least. Nothing is less appealing to me than getting my groceries delivered by a stranger, opening the box, and finding tomatoes that are off white and hard as a tennis ball.

Inconvenience is the new convenience, especially when it comes to food. Perhaps if cooking brings you no joy, and your objective is to just stuff your stomach full of calories you would be a good candidate for online food shopping.

Quite the opposite. All of these online provides put a lot of effort into training pickers to pick the absolute best product.

[casper]

Grocery Gateway was purchased by Longos at a severely discount rate. It started out as one of the first virtual grocery websites and attracted millions in investment all across North America to never make a cent. Groceries stores having a delivery service has been around long before the internet.

I think is was around $100M that Grocery Gateway raised and lost. Longos brought them in house. Grocery Gateway was Toronto focused.

Out of the west coast it was a different story. Mighty Oaks (www.mightyoaks.com) about the same time developed the software used by Thrifty Foods (www.thriftyfoods.com). Thrifty turned online into a profitable operaiton and Mighty Oaks continued to license their software to other small and mid-market grocery store chains.

[SpongeG]

is timmins near thunder bay or it in eastern?

[north 42]

is timmins near thunder bay or it in eastern?

Northeastern, closer to the Quebec border

[SpongeG]

ok

----

back to retail news

toronto just got an IKEA play cafe

https://www.facebook.com/blogto/videos/10154552746725009/

[Acajack]

Brace yourselves, people.

The Acajack family had a Yonge-Dundas Square moment over the weekend!

My kids were interviewed somewhat randomly by a video crew that is compiling capsules for one of the big screens there for broadcast on July 1.

So my kids may be on the big screen at Yonge-Dundas on Canada Day.

How exciting is that?!? :haha:

[christmas]

Vancouver's new waterfront entertainment district retail plans

This will make Vancouver's waterfront the best in the nation -- if it isn't already...
It connects:
Science World - new creekside park - a big new marina - entertainment district - Plaza of Nations redevelopment - the BC Place stadium - Chinatown - the new Vancouver Art Gallery coming in nearby - multiple train stations and bus stops - and the St. John's Hospital. If you extend it a little further, you have Granville Island as well.

http://i.imgur.com/f2ctAKvh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WfQdtshh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CmJGLlJh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZcSHeyXh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zs0IXFbh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yRZx7fGh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KYN1iNeh.jpg

NEFC Sub-area 6D - The City Owned Lands West Block

http://i.imgur.com/WhehsDOh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cLTVqoBh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LhNXDHuh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KJZryqph.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/luzRVUWh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/inEP7kdh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/O0w6kTeh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SVplriUh.jpg

NEFC Sub-area 6B- Plaza of Nations Redevelopment
A lot of retail space for this project as well.

http://i.imgur.com/Hk3j1o4h.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YFjm6Flh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VZj5TwLh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HQ7rIU6h.jpg

BC Place is getting a facelift.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4279/35005017602_7720e1e393_b.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4218/34783415780_635c731f0f_b.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4213/34783415590_72e52239a2_b.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/673ZqM9h.png

[Acajack]

Sears announcing a bunch of store closings across Canada right now.

[eternallyme]

Sears is in bankruptcy protection now. Closing 59 stores and 2,500 jobs lost. No real surprise here.

[Loco101]

Sears is in bankruptcy protection now. Closing 59 stores and 2,500 jobs lost. No real surprise here.

Expect LESS from Sears!

[balletomane]

This is sad news about Sears closing...I remember how excited I was to flip through their Wishbook every year as a child.
I wonder how much longer until The Bay make an announcement about doubts in its future?

[Taeolas]

Strangely enough, a lot of this talk seems to be happening in the Atlantic Section in the Moncton Retail thread.

In any case, and this is just a gut feel for me; but all in all, I don't think HBC is anywhere near in as bad a shape as Sears (and Sears Canada) is. HBC seems to be having a bit of afterburn from absorbing those US chains, and is shedding some excess weight it put on from that; but all in all, it seems like it is still doing quite decently.

Sears has had vultures circling it for years and is now in the "Cut off limbs and hope to survive" stage. Which puts it in good position for HBC to snag some prime real estate.

Out here by the sea, I think we're hoping/expecting that HBC is just waiting to snag some prime locations (at least Sears Champlain place in Moncton and possibly Sears Regent Mall in Fredericton.... maybe the location in Saint John as well for the trifecta; but since SJ is in the first wave to close, maybe HBC will avoid it).

[SpongeG]

I wonder how the hudsons bay stores will do in Europe. The renovated stores in the Vancouver area are really nice the non-renovated ones are pretty bad. It kinda sends a mixed signal. The one closest to me is really bad but is closing soon as the whole mall gets a complete redo and expansion so I can forgive that one, but some of them really need some work done to them, there is no consistency or uniform feel to their stores.

[Innsertnamehere]

HBC is midway through a modernization. Their old stuff, especially in smaller centres, is lower end and not the nicest. Their newer stores are very nice and do big business. HBC in Toronto (queen street) is always bustling, but their Yonge Bloor location is depressing since it hasn't been renovated.

I feel like HBC has a much better brand image than sears too.

[hipster duck]

Hindsight is 20/20 but when you look at the list of chain retail bankruptcies in Canada over the past 15-20 years, they all sort of make sense - even to people like me who know next to nothing about retailing other than what they experience as consumers.

For example:

1. Youth-oriented fashion retailers completely decimated by inexpensive global fast fashion stores that can introduce new products much more quickly: Mexx, French Connection, Aeropostale, Guess.

2. Lumbering department store giants whose clientele just got older and older every year and whose diverse product offerings were staid and more readily accessible online: Sears, Eatons.

3. Fashion retailers that didn't change who catered to a certain generation which just got older and either switched tastes or don't consume as much: Danier, American Apparel, Gap, etc.

4. Fashion retailers of women's basics that had little product differentiation, and either got decimated by fast fashion or by discount/off-price retailers like Winners: Jacob, Smart Set, etc.

5. Retailers that were bought out by others, but had completely redundant product lines and locations: Chapters/Indigo, Future Shop, Forzani

[niwell]

I wonder how the hudsons bay stores will do in Europe. The renovated stores in the Vancouver area are really nice the non-renovated ones are pretty bad. It kinda sends a mixed signal. The one closest to me is really bad but is closing soon as the whole mall gets a complete redo and expansion so I can forgive that one, but some of them really need some work done to them, there is no consistency or uniform feel to their stores.


I have a feeling HBC will do just fine, but they really do need to renovate some of their locations, particularly suburban ones. Or maybe in some cases straight up get rid of them. I normally shop at the flagship HBC at Yonge and Queen in Toronto which is a gorgeous store with a huge amount of selection. Always seems busy too. At Xmas I went to the Market Mall location in Calgary (an increasingly upscale mall) and it was like night and day. Not only did it look dingy and outdated, but the selection was quite poor in comparison. I have a feeling the Chinook Centre location is quite nice though, probably similar to Yorkdale in Toronto.

[Boris2k7]

I have a feeling HBC will do just fine, but they really do need to renovate some of their locations, particularly suburban ones. Or maybe in some cases straight up get rid of them. I normally shop at the flagship HBC at Yonge and Queen in Toronto which is a gorgeous store with a huge amount of selection. Always seems busy too. At Xmas I went to the Market Mall location in Calgary (an increasingly upscale mall) and it was like night and day. Not only did it look dingy and outdated, but the selection was quite poor in comparison. I have a feeling the Chinook Centre location is quite nice though, probably similar to Yorkdale in Toronto.

They've done some work on modernizing the font and unifying some design elements (white font on black banners to indicate brands), but there's still a lot of work to do to compete with other retail outlets. The downtown HBC looks particularly bad when you compare it to La Maison Simons which opened up a block away on Stephen Ave.

[balletomane]

Well I really hope HBC does continue to reinvent itself with the times and doesn't become dated like Eaton's of Sears, HBC is practically inseparable from the "Canadian identity".
I've probably assumed that it was struggling more than it was since I see the downtown Winnipeg location every day (which has closed over half of its floors).

On another note, what will come of all those malls that have Sears as one of their main tenants? Practically every major Canadian mall has a Sears and HBC as their flagship stores. Are there other retailers out there that would be willing to take over a space that size? Sears has about 15 million sq ft of space across Canada, a lot of space to fill.

[MolsonExport]

Sears is in bankruptcy protection now. Closing 59 stores and 2,500 jobs lost. No real surprise here.

yup. They are on the second word of the sequence: Going, going....gone

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/business/sears-canada-ccaa-1.4172736

London first lost the Sears in Masonville Mall,
Then the Sears Outlet in London Mall,
Now the Sears Home Box in South London.

Unce. Tice, Fee times a mady.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGdK_QTUQAEXodo.jpg
pbs

[Marty_Mcfly]

So what you're saying is that now is the time to invest all my earnings into Sears? You know...once they start trading again.....
:notacrook:

[Boris2k7]

Well I really hope HBC does continue to reinvent itself with the times and doesn't become dated like Eaton's of Sears, HBC is practically inseparable from the "Canadian identity".
I've probably assumed that it was struggling more than it was since I see the downtown Winnipeg location every day (which has closed over half of its floors).

On another note, what will come of all those malls that have Sears as one of their main tenants? Practically every major Canadian mall has a Sears and HBC as their flagship stores. Are there other retailers out there that would be willing to take over a space that size? Sears has about 15 million sq ft of space across Canada, a lot of space to fill.

Well the one at Chinook Centre was replaced by Nordstrom. Also used to be an old Zellers which was replaced by Target which is supposedly being replaced by Saks Fifth Avenue. Our downtown Sears was replaced by Holt Renfrew. Still a few other Sears locations around town, but I'm sure they can be replaced too.

[balletomane]

Well the one at Chinook Centre was replaced by Nordstrom. Also used to be an old Zellers which was replaced by Target which is supposedly being replaced by Saks Fifth Avenue. Our downtown Sears was replaced by Holt Renfrew. Still a few other Sears locations around town, but I'm sure they can be replaced too.

Its probably a lot easier to attract another big retailer to come fill a vacant space in one of those primary malls as opposed to a secondary one. I'm sure Nordstrom, Saks Fifth Avenue or even Simons would contemplate expansion into a former Sears location at a major mall.
Its the secondary malls that could be the issue, they are practically all anchored by a Sears at one end and HBC at the other, and those higher-end retailers likely wouldn't be interested.

[TownGuy]

Its the secondary malls that could be the issue, they are practically all anchored by a Sears at one end and HBC at the other, and those higher-end retailers likely wouldn't be interested.

The Sears at Cobourg's mall closed a couple months ago and is being replaced by a store called Hart. Never heard of them but apparently a Quebec based retailer.

http://www.hartstores.com

[Acajack]

The Sears at Cobourg's mall closed a couple months ago and is being replaced by a store called Hart. Never heard of them but apparently a Quebec based retailer.

http://www.hartstores.com

Kinda like Giant Tiger. Or Biway back in the day.

[kwoldtimer]

Hart is a new one to me, although I see they have a number of stores in Ontario. From the website, it looks like they might be a half-step "up" from Giant Tiger, and without the grocery offerings. Perhaps the Sears closings will offer additional opportunities for expansion.

[kwoldtimer]

duplicate post.

[Acajack]

Based only on what their stores look like, not sure Hart is a step up from GT.

[kwoldtimer]

I'll take your word for it, as the chances of my schlepping to Arnprior or Buckingham to have a look are at the lower end of slim to nil. ;)

[casper]

Based only on what their stores look like, not sure Hart is a step up from GT.

I don't know. From the website they to look to be a step up from Field's and Giant Tiger but it is hard to say without going into one.

In big cities Giant Tiger comes across as a deep discount clearance type store. However in many small towns stores like Giant Tiger, Field's, Northern are main stream department stores. Not certain why they even try to set up shop in the big cities.

[Taeolas]

Yeah, Hart seems to be filling the Giant Tiger/Biway/Met/Saan/similar low-middle range department store niche, especially in the smaller markets. They set up shop in Woodstock, NB in the old Saan location (even though Woodstock does have a Walmart) and seem to be doing ok.

As mentioned, they probably won't be moving into actual cities much; that seems to be Giant Tiger's focus more than anything.

[SpongeG]

They have been in Vancouver for decades and are very popular, most of them are open 24 hours, I went last sunday at 12:30 am and every table was full and there was a lineup of about a dozen people

Church’s Chicken Embarks on Canada Expansion with Toronto Opening

Scarborough Restaurant Marks First of 25-Location Deal with Franchisee

Atlanta, GA (RestaurantNews.com) Church’s Chicken® has announced the opening of its newest restaurant in Toronto, Canada on June 19. The restaurant is the first in an eight-year deal that will eventually include 25 total restaurants in the Greater Toronto area under the same franchisee, Brothers Social Eatery, Inc. Church’s® is world-renowned for their freshly-prepared original and spicy fried chicken, made-from-scratch honey-butter biscuits, and classic home-style sides.

The first restaurant to open under the agreement is located at 3563 Lawrence Avenue East in Scarborough, Ontario, a suburb of Toronto. The restaurant will feature the company’s new STAR Initiative Design, which includes new interior seating options, new exterior design and color palettes, and contemporary lighting inside and out.

...

http://www.restaurantnews.com/churchs-chicken-embarks-on-canada-expansion-with-toronto-opening/

[MonctonRad]

Its probably a lot easier to attract another big retailer to come fill a vacant space in one of those primary malls as opposed to a secondary one. I'm sure Nordstrom, Saks Fifth Avenue or even Simons would contemplate expansion into a former Sears location at a major mall.
Its the secondary malls that could be the issue, they are practically all anchored by a Sears at one end and HBC at the other, and those higher-end retailers likely wouldn't be interested.

Attracting high end department stores to replace Sears in Atlantic Canada would be next to impossible. The only real exception will be Halifax.

Following this latest set of closures, Sears full line department stores in the Maritimes will be down to Halifax, Moncton, Fredericton, Charlottetown & Sydney.
Full line stores in Bathurst, Saint John, Dartmouth are to close.

The HSC location in Halifax should be able to attract Nordstroms or Simons to replace Sears.
The CF Champlain location in Moncton will likely get HBC (possibly Simon's)
The Regent Mall in Fredericton might get HBC.
The Charlottetown and Sydney locations will likely be out of luck.
I also have no idea what would happen to Saint John - if they're really lucky, they might get HBC, but I'm not holding my breath.

There are many, many secondary malls in smaller cities and towns in the region which have been severely kicked in the nuts by all the retail closures. For example the Amherst Mall in Amherst NS has lost Sears and Zellers with no replacements. Virtually all the other retailers in the mall have vacated as a result. It is truly now a "Dead Mall of Canada". There is a WalMart, a Kent (similar to Home Depot), Superstore and Canadian Tire in the neighbourhood, drawing away customers. Being only a 40 minute drive from Moncton also hasn't helped........

[someone123]

There's been a rumour for a while that Simons is going to open a store in Halifax soon. I think they'd do great there. Nordstrom doesn't seem like a good fit unless they plan to carry less expensive stuff than they do in Vancouver and Toronto.

I think a lot of the old department store places will be left empty or will be redeveloped into something else. There isn't as much demand for that type of space as there was 20 or 30 years ago.

[q12]

IKEA Halifax status via Twitter today (Opening in a few months):

Terry Tomlin‏ @t_tomlin
Happened upon the new #IKEA during today's ride but the meatballs weren't fully cooked yet.
@HalifaxReTales
https://twitter.com/t_tomlin/status/879041263777009664

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDL7W-2XsAAveRR.jpg:large

[SpongeG]

Nordstrom in Vancouver is so unaffordable it's ridiculous, nice to look around but can never afford anything, perhaps the occasional $20 bar of soap.

[kwoldtimer]

There's been a rumour for a while that Simons is going to open a store in Halifax soon. I think they'd do great there. Nordstrom doesn't seem like a good fit unless they plan to carry less expensive stuff than they do in Vancouver and Toronto.

I think a lot of the old department store places will be left empty or will be redeveloped into something else. There isn't as much demand for that type of space as there was 20 or 30 years ago.

Given the size of the market, I can't see Nordstroms opening anywhere in Atlantic Canada. I've been wondering how much more/how quickly Simons is planning to expand - in the absence of financial results, it's hard to get a read of how well there new stores outside Quebec are doing.

[WhipperSnapper]

They have been in Vancouver for decades and are very popular, most of them are open 24 hours, I went last sunday at 12:30 am and every table was full and there was a lineup of about a dozen people

Church’s Chicken Embarks on Canada Expansion with Toronto Opening

Scarborough Restaurant Marks First of 25-Location Deal with Franchisee

Atlanta, GA (RestaurantNews.com) Church’s Chicken® has announced the opening of its newest restaurant in Toronto, Canada on June 19. The restaurant is the first in an eight-year deal that will eventually include 25 total restaurants in the Greater Toronto area under the same franchisee, Brothers Social Eatery, Inc. Church’s® is world-renowned for their freshly-prepared original and spicy fried chicken, made-from-scratch honey-butter biscuits, and classic home-style sides.

The first restaurant to open under the agreement is located at 3563 Lawrence Avenue East in Scarborough, Ontario, a suburb of Toronto. The restaurant will feature the company’s new STAR Initiative Design, which includes new interior seating options, new exterior design and color palettes, and contemporary lighting inside and out.

...

http://www.restaurantnews.com/churchs-chicken-embarks-on-canada-expansion-with-toronto-opening/

They are everywhere. My drinking buddy was addicted to Harveys and I always order Church's chicken way back when they had a deal going with Harvey's

[WhipperSnapper]

Nordstrom in Vancouver is so unaffordable it's ridiculous, nice to look around but can never afford anything, perhaps the occasional $20 bar of soap.

It's simply not for the average person as much as the average person wants it to be.

[Nouvellecosse]

Attracting high end department stores to replace Sears in Atlantic Canada would be next to impossible. The only real exception will be Halifax.

Following this latest set of closures, Sears full line department stores in the Maritimes will be down to Halifax, Moncton, Fredericton, Charlottetown & Sydney.
Full line stores in Bathurst, Saint John, Dartmouth are to close.

The HSC location in Halifax should be able to attract Nordstroms or Simons to replace Sears.
The CF Champlain location in Moncton will likely get HBC (possibly Simon's)
The Regent Mall in Fredericton might get HBC.
The Charlottetown and Sydney locations will likely be out of luck.
I also have no idea what would happen to Saint John - if they're really lucky, they might get HBC, but I'm not holding my breath.

There are many, many secondary malls in smaller cities and towns in the region which have been severely kicked in the nuts by all the retail closures. For example the Amherst Mall in Amherst NS has lost Sears and Zellers with no replacements. Virtually all the other retailers in the mall have vacated as a result. It is truly now a "Dead Mall of Canada". There is a WalMart, a Kent (similar to Home Depot), Superstore and Canadian Tire in the neighbourhood, drawing away customers. Being only a 40 minute drive from Moncton also hasn't helped........

Actually, Giant Tiger moved into the Zellers spot and although smaller (around 50% as big) still provides some alternative to Walmart. And the Sears was never a department store. It was only a catalogue pickup depot that didn't carry most products on site with the exception of some furniture and appliances.

[MolsonExport]

I don't fucking get why anyone would shop at Giant Tiger...well, at least in the bigger cites. Yet we have at least 6 in the London region. Giant tiger is like the square root of Walmart divided by Dollarama times Fields.

The whole is less than the sum of its parts. Shitty place.

[GeneralLeeTPHLS]

I like Giant Tiger for how cheap it can be....though the people that decide where another GT should open don't give a damn where they'll open a new location...a GT is coming to this run down and kind-of dead mall not terribly at from me...and I expect the GT employees will be less than great. For context this is likely one of twenty most rundown or just shady malls in the GTHA.

The one location I go to on occasion (maybe 4-8 times a year) is located a good ways away so I don't go there much..though the price is attractive if I just want to get a snack and check out the area around the store. Then again, that said location can have some really strange employees....they don't seem to want to talk to customers.

I find the GT locations in places like Peterborough or less major cities to be a bit more pleasant.

[kwoldtimer]

I don't fucking get why anyone would shop at Giant Tiger...well, at least in the bigger cites. Yet we have at least 6 in the London region. Giant tiger is like the square root of Walmart divided by Dollarama times Fields.

The whole is less than the sum of its parts. Shitty place.

You seem not to have been paying attention to either economic or retail trends of recent years. Bottom end is where it's at! Safe to assume that all those London GTs are doing well?

[SpongeG]

It's simply not for the average person as much as the average person wants it to be.

yeah, they have brought the high end concept to Canada, I wonder if they will bring the more suburban format here. For example downtown seattle and bellevue square nordstrom stores carry the high end brands like gucci, fendi, burberry, moncler, chanel etc. Where as the more suburban Seattle stores like Lynnwood, southgate and north gate don't have the high end brands but more brands like dockers, levis, nike, kate spade, coach, average middle to low end brands with their usual mix of cosmetics and fragrance brands minus the expensive ones like byredo and armani etc. With the same great customer service.

If they brought that style I am sure they could take over, for example, sears stores in more places across Canada.

[Loco101]

I remember when some Harvey's locations in Southern Ontario served Church's Chicken back in the 1990s.

[Loco101]

I don't fucking get why anyone would shop at Giant Tiger...well, at least in the bigger cites. Yet we have at least 6 in the London region. Giant tiger is like the square root of Walmart divided by Dollarama times Fields.

The whole is less than the sum of its parts. Shitty place.

I have to agree about Giant Tiger in markets where there are other choices. We have two GT locations in Timmins. One store has been around for almost 40 years while a larger location opened a few years ago across the road from Walmart. Both GT locations are now failing and really have nothing to attract shoppers. The franchise owner who had both locations has given up and moved to another place and the stores are now run and owned by the company. If GT is the only store in a town then it will likely do okay such as the one in Cochrane, ON.

I actually like Quebec-based Hart stores more. Not saying they are the greatest by any means but whoever decides what items they carry does a much better job than GT which I believed has its headquarters in Ottawa. Another Quebec-based discount chain that is similar to Hart is Rossy. I can honestly see Giant Tiger, Hart and Rossy merging at some point. I know that the latter two have had financial difficulties fairly recently and I'm not sure about GT.

[MolsonExport]

You seem not to have been paying attention to either economic or retail trends of recent years. Bottom end is where it's at! Safe to assume that all those London GTs are doing well?

I cannot say. Giant Tiger is a dump. I have visited numerous times and never bought a single thing. I can't say this about Walfart and Dollarama. Heck, I have even purchased a thing or two at fields.

I even prefer Stedman's V&S:
http://www.heritagemeaford.com/images/buildings/standard/HERITAGE-30.jpg
heritagemeaford

[MolsonExport]

I remember when some Harvey's locations in Southern Ontario served Church's Chicken back in the 1990s.

I remember Harvey's "Vous sert le poulet Chalet Suisse" back in the 90s in Quebec. Fail.

[Acajack]

There is a dépanneur in an old part of Gatineau that has a crappy faded sign that advertises "Poulet Churchs".

[manny_santos]

Church's does seem to have a presence in Western Canada; I noticed several in BC when I was there last year.

[Proof Sheet]

yeah, they have brought the high end concept to Canada, I wonder if they will bring the more suburban format here. For example downtown seattle and bellevue square nordstrom stores carry the high end brands like gucci, fendi, burberry, moncler, chanel etc. Where as the more suburban Seattle stores like Lynnwood, southgate and north gate don't have the high end brands but more brands like dockers, levis, nike, kate spade, coach, average middle to low end brands with their usual mix of cosmetics and fragrance brands minus the expensive ones like byredo and armani etc. With the same great customer service.

If they brought that style I am sure they could take over, for example, sears stores in more places across Canada.

Brand dilution is never a winning concept.

[SpongeG]

it's only recently that nordstrom turned itself upscale, in the 90's and 00's it was family friendly affordable american style clothing, only a handful of their US stores that I have been to are what we have in Canada. Most are more on par with Macys or a typical Hudsons Bay store.

I can't see the High end Vancouver and Toronto nordstroms going into places like Winiipeg or Halifax etc.

[Loco101]

I remember Harvey's "Vous sert le poulet Chalet Suisse" back in the 90s in Quebec. Fail.

I remember seeing that back then in some of the Montreal suburbs. Swiss Chalet never stood a chance against St-Hubert in QC. The funny thing is that they are now owned by the same company, Cara Operations Ltd..

[Loco101]

There is a dépanneur in an old part of Gatineau that has a crappy faded sign that advertises "Poulet Churchs".

Are you sure it was that and not Poulet Chester? There still are a couple of dépanneurs in Abitibi-Témiscamingue that are selling Chester Chicken. We can still get it in Timmins.

[WhipperSnapper]

It was a sad day when St Hubert pulled out of Ontario and closed their Toronto locations. My grocery store occasionally teases me by stocking St Hubert's branded slaw.

[MonctonRad]

Happily St Huberts has a presence in NB (Moncton, Bathurst, Fredericton & Edmundston).

Moncton is blessed with two Swiss Chalets and one St Huberts. We also Have two Mary Browns (for all the ex-pat Newfoundlanders).

I guess that means we have the entire country covered for plucking palaces..... :D

[Loco101]

It was a sad day when St Hubert pulled out of Ontario and closed their Toronto locations. My grocery store occasionally teases me by stocking St Hubert's branded slaw.

They didn't 100% pull out of Ontario. There are still locations in Ottawa and Cornwall.

I remember when we once had one in Timmins but it didn't last long. We now have to go to Rouyn-Noranda. I do buy their coleslaw and sauces at the grocery store.

[JHikka]

Happily St Huberts has a presence in NB (Moncton, Bathurst, Fredericton & Edmundston).

St Hubert tried and failed in the SJ market. Their radio ads had the restaurant name pronounced Saint Hewbert and it was obvious they were trying to avoid the French pronunciation as much as possible. It was awkward.

How could you possibly not mention Dixie Lee (http://www.dixieleemaritimes.com/menu)? It's the Acadien KFC. :haha:

[MonctonRad]

How could you possibly not mention Dixie Lee (http://www.dixieleemaritimes.com/menu)? It's the Acadien KFC. :haha:

Of course!! - Moncton has a Dixie Lee and three KFCs too.

Add that to the aforementioned Swiss Chalet, St Hubert & Mary Brown locations and its clear that any chicken within 50 km of Moncton is in imminent danger of losing it's feathers!!! :eek: :haha:

[Taeolas]

Freddy is a similar Chicken Dangerzone.

We have Dixie Lee on the north side (and up in Woodstock), 2 Standalone KFCs (plus 1 in Woodstock), a mall KFC, Swiss Chalet and St Hubert. And they all seem to be doing decently.

I'm pretty sure Dixie Lee predates all but maybe 1 or 2 of the KFCs.

[MolsonExport]

Brand dilution is never a winning concept.

Artisanal olive oil and gourmet cupcakes, all the way. Else you risk the Bari shopping mall crisis.
:youmad:

http://d3imyo1kk0rcam.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/c6b0ebc4ff35959757cd5bbaf06551321891111360.jpg
gino vanelli's underwear

[manny_santos]

St Hubert tried and failed in the SJ market. Their radio ads had the restaurant name pronounced Saint Hewbert and it was obvious they were trying to avoid the French pronunciation as much as possible. It was awkward.

How could you possibly not mention Dixie Lee (http://www.dixieleemaritimes.com/menu)? It's the Acadien KFC. :haha:

St. Hubert used that bastardized pronunciation in Southern Ontario too...

HJboLzWogLM

Dixie Lee also has a limited presence in Eastern and Northern Ontario (their corporate headquarters, at least as of three years ago, were in a rundown house in Downtown Kingston). Here's a commercial they aired in Kingston in the 80s (starting at 1:28).

NjMwNADe488

[Acajack]

Are you sure it was that and not Poulet Chester? There still are a couple of dépanneurs in Abitibi-Témiscamingue that are selling Chester Chicken. We can still get it in Timmins.

Oh, that could be. Now you are making me doubt! I'll have to check.

[Acajack]

Ask my family - whenever we plan a trip to the Maritimes, what I talk about the most isn't Parlee Beach, or the Cabot Trail or Louisbourg, but battered clams and fries at Dixie Lee!

[SpongeG]

all this talk about chicken, did anyone try the swiss chalet fried chicken?

There are so few swiss chalets in vancouver, the only one in the city of has shut down recently. There are still a few in other cities in the LM.

How about Nandos? how widespread across Canada are they? quite a few in the Vancouver area.

[kwoldtimer]

all this talk about chicken, did anyone try the swiss chalet fried chicken?

There are so few swiss chalets in vancouver, the only one in the city of has shut down recently. There are still a few in other cities in the LM.

How about Nandos? how widespread across Canada are they? quite a few in the Vancouver area.

I love Nando's! Been a fan since I discovered them (and peri-peri) while living in Cape Town, years ago. After a false start a few years back, they seem to have made a decent comeback here in Ottawa.

Haven't tried the Swiss Chalet fried chicken - fried chicken is something I get a strong craving for every two or three years, don't know why. The only way I'd eat it from any of the chains would be to take it home and set it on a pad of paper towels in the oven to try to draw some of the grease out!

[niwell]

Nando's is pretty good! The locations in central Toronto seem a bit upscale in decor which is interesting, but certainly caters to the lunch crowd in my work area. My friends who have lived in the UK regarded it more as late night drunk food which does not seem to be market they are aiming for here at all. I haven't been to any in the suburbs though. The one's I saw in SA ranged from almost as fancy to more bare bones fast food depending on the area.


I can't imagine eating fried chicken at any chain anymore considering all the other options that exist now. Including good quality takeout at a similar price point to the chains.

[MolsonExport]

Swiss chalet is a bastardized rip-off of Chalet BBQ in Montreal (Sherbrooke Street West, at Girouard). A split in ownership lead to its creation. There are no substitutes. Swiss Chalet is an extremely mediocre product next to the real deal at Chalet BBQ. This is the best:http://www.chaletbbq.com/

Tracking down Montreal's greatest culinary creation (IMO):
http://nationalpost.com/life/an-ill-fated-quest-to-trace-the-origins-of-a-quebec-classic-the-bbq-chicken-dinner/wcm/1a838297-5cb9-40e9-8d91-0098c988e52c

World's greatest Montreal-style Rotisserie Chicken.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2067/1642515736_669253560e_o.jpg
flikr

Way better than St. Hub
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/09/3f/23/70/chalet-bar-b-q.jpg
tripadvisor

[north 42]

Swiss chalet is a bastardized rip-off of Chalet BBQ in Montreal (Sherbrooke Street West, at Girouard). A split in ownership lead to its creation. There are no substitutes. Swiss Chalet is an extremely mediocre product next to the real deal at Chalet BBQ. This is the best:http://www.chaletbbq.com/

Tracking down Montreal's greatest culinary creation (IMO):
http://nationalpost.com/life/an-ill-fated-quest-to-trace-the-origins-of-a-quebec-classic-the-bbq-chicken-dinner/wcm/1a838297-5cb9-40e9-8d91-0098c988e52c

World's greatest Montreal-style Rotisserie Chicken.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2067/1642515736_669253560e_o.jpg
flikr

Way better than St. Hub
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/09/3f/23/70/chalet-bar-b-q.jpg
tripadvisor

Does Chalet BBQ's dipping sauce taste like Swiss Chalet's? That stuff is vile!

[osmo]

It would be interesting to read more about Montreal's food history. I get the idea that their greasy spoons and Restos provide am much deeper history than what is present here in Toronto. That Chalet BBQ is right up my ally. I prefer simple places like that versus regular restaurants.

[Acajack]

Does Chalet BBQ's dipping sauce taste like Swiss Chalet's? That stuff is vile!

I highly doubt that that's the case. Otherwise MolsonEx wouldn't be praising one all the time while slashing the other.

[Acajack]

It would be interesting to read more about Montreal's food history. I get the idea that their greasy spoons and Restos provide a much deeper history than what is present here in Toronto. .

Not really. Can't be proven.

Signed: SSP Canada

(I'm being annoying lately, aren't I?)

[OTSkyline]

^On the subject of Giant Tiger, it must depend on the location because they have recently gone through a major expansion and renovation project and their renovated stores are nice, clean, easy to shop and offer everything from grocery, household goods and clothing. Much nicer and better service than Wal-Mart. I've also noticed they've moved away from random brands and clearouts to more national brands at same prices or lower than Wal-Mart, No Frills, Food Basics, etc..

http://marketingmag.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Giant-Tiger-Embrun-Grand-Opening-006-e1470753999828.jpg

http://storage.intelligencer.ca/v1/dynamic_resize/sws_path/suns-prod-images/1297573171371_ORIGINAL.jpg?quality=80&size=650x&stmp=1403036310521

http://www.soberjulie.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/giant-tiger-fashion-department.jpg

[MolsonExport]

I highly doubt that that's the case. Otherwise MolsonEx wouldn't be praising one all the time while slashing the other.


indeed. there is no comparison. None.

[manny_santos]

^On the subject of Giant Tiger, it must depend on the location because they have recently gone through a major expansion and renovation project and their renovated stores are nice, clean, easy to shop and offer everything from grocery, household goods and clothing. Much nicer and better service than Wal-Mart. I've also noticed they've moved away from random brands and clearouts to more national brands at same prices or lower than Wal-Mart, No Frills, Food Basics, etc..

http://marketingmag.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Giant-Tiger-Embrun-Grand-Opening-006-e1470753999828.jpg

http://storage.intelligencer.ca/v1/dynamic_resize/sws_path/suns-prod-images/1297573171371_ORIGINAL.jpg?quality=80&size=650x&stmp=1403036310521

http://www.soberjulie.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/giant-tiger-fashion-department.jpg

That looks like the Kingston store, it's clean and in good shape, and key - well organized.

It wasn't like the one I remember in London. I can see why ME had an issue with those.

Random fact - a number of Giant Tigers are in former supermarkets. The Kingston one is an old Loblaws, and one of the London ones is an old A&P.

[MolsonExport]

the ones in London are like damaged merchandise clearance marts. decrepit with crappy merchandise.