Canadian Retail Thread

[LeftCoaster]

Who knows, with the 1 Bloor west proposal setting a new precendent, the hudson bays center could be demolished and redeveloped into a new vertical shopping center and mixed use tower.

Is the "pedestrianization" of Oakridge going through? I don't see how it's financially lucrative. I suppose there are condos included in the plan but I dont see why the owners wouldn't just demolish the parking structure and replace it with a huge underground lot and towers.

Hunh? There's already a 35 storey office building and a 41 storey hotel/residence on that plot. They arent going anywhere.

As for oakridge, it is a massive redevelopment, certainly not just a pedestrianization.

[Nathan]

I didn't know that, thanks though! I could have sworn I remember them being sold to a US company a while back... oh well, good to know they're still Canadian.

Your memory is also correct; they were owned by Wendy's for a while, but Wendy's spun them off and listed them on the TSX, and it's now become a publicly traded Canadian company.

[telyou]

Your memory is also correct; they were owned by Wendy's for a while, but Wendy's spun them off and listed them on the TSX, and it's now become a publicly traded Canadian company.

It was never "acquired" by Wendy's. The two merged. Ron Joyce, who is Canadian, and was the sole owner of Tim Hortons, was in fact the majority shareholder of the newly merged companies. He was a bigger shareholder then the Thomas family. The two companies functioned as separate entities. Wendy's later decided to spin off their shares in an IPO.

[SpongeG]

HBC announces $2.9B deal to buy U.S. retailer Saks; plans to open 7 stores in Canada

TORONTO -- Hudson's Bay Co. says it will open up to seven full-line Saks stores in Canada and about two dozen locations under a discount banner once it completes a US$2.9-billion friendly deal to acquire the U.S. luxury retailer.
"We're going to move as quickly as we can," Richard Baker, HBC's chairman and chief executive, told analysts during a conference call on Monday.
"We think there's a lot of opportunity for us to accomplish that rollout relatively quickly."

...

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/hbc-announces-2-9b-deal-to-buy-u-s-retailer-saks-plans-to-open-7-stores-in-canada-1.1387975#ixzz2aRvw9dUs

[eternallyme]

It seems in Canada retail is all converging in about 12 to 15 locations - a mix of downtown and the strongest suburban areas - and leaving the other suburban malls in the dust. I think a lot of them are going to die out soon...

[SpongeG]

the malls? or the retailers?

[esquire]

It seems in Canada retail is all converging in about 12 to 15 locations - a mix of downtown and the strongest suburban areas - and leaving the other suburban malls in the dust. I think a lot of them are going to die out soon...

Hadn't really thought of it in those terms but it's true. Certainly looking at the prairie cities, you can see how virtually every one went from having a downtown shopping area and several suburban shopping malls on more or less equal footing back in the 1980s, to the current situation where each city has one or two super-dominant regional malls (WEM, Chinook, Polo Park, Cornwall) while a lot of the other once-major players have regressed into a local community shopping centre that draws only from the immediate area (Londonderry, North Hill, Garden City, Southland).

This seems to be a Canada-wide trend. Considering that retail spending has increased dramatically over the past 20 years, it is curious that the number of major retail destination areas has decreased over time to the point where there are no more than a handful of them across the entire country.

[Chadillaccc]

Hadn't really thought of it in those terms but it's true. Certainly looking at the prairie cities, you can see how virtually every one went from having a downtown shopping area and several suburban shopping malls on more or less equal footing back in the 1980s, to the current situation where each city has one or two super-dominant regional malls (WEM, Chinook, Polo Park, Cornwall) while a lot of the other once-major players have regressed into a local community shopping centre that draws only from the immediate area (Londonderry, North Hill, Garden City, Southland).

This seems to be a Canada-wide trend. Considering that retail spending has increased dramatically over the past 20 years, it is curious that the number of major retail destination areas has decreased over time to the point where there are no more than a handful of them across the entire country.

I can't speak for the others, but I know The Core, Market Mall, and Sunridge are all pretty popular malls in Calgary. I'd put The Core and Chinook on equal footing.

[eternallyme]

Hadn't really thought of it in those terms but it's true. Certainly looking at the prairie cities, you can see how virtually every one went from having a downtown shopping area and several suburban shopping malls on more or less equal footing back in the 1980s, to the current situation where each city has one or two super-dominant regional malls (WEM, Chinook, Polo Park, Cornwall) while a lot of the other once-major players have regressed into a local community shopping centre that draws only from the immediate area (Londonderry, North Hill, Garden City, Southland).

This seems to be a Canada-wide trend. Considering that retail spending has increased dramatically over the past 20 years, it is curious that the number of major retail destination areas has decreased over time to the point where there are no more than a handful of them across the entire country.

Indeed, a lot of former regional malls are now just community-level at best, while the 15 or so in Canada mentioned have jumped to super-regional levels.

Interestingly, there is no real location preference. In some cities, that dominant location is downtown (i.e. Ottawa), in others it is in the inner city (i.e. Winnipeg, Calgary), and others it is in the distant suburban areas (i.e. Edmonton, Montreal). Toronto is an exception in that it can sustain about 5 dominant retail areas - one downtown and the rest mostly in the suburbs - but the other ones are all struggling.

[miketoronto]

I am sorry guys, but Canada does not know and hopefully will not know the term "dead mall". I just drove by a dead mall in the USA the other day, and Canada just does not have the that kind of retail decay.

I can only speak for Toronto, but all the malls are doing well. Are some places more regional and popular? For sure. But that does not mean the other places are left to rot.

But our malls even the less popular ones are not doing badly at all.

We just have to make sure we do not over build retail like the USA did.

The only troubling trend in Canada is that some suburban malls are starting to become destinations for retail, that would have normally only located downtown even a decade ago.
You see this particularly in Calgary where many big names choose to have their only Calgary location at Chinook instead of downtown.
Or in Toronto where Yorkdale has been getting a number of the new to the region stores in the last few years. This normally would not have been the case, and it is a little troubling.

[vid]

All the malls are doing well? We have totally vacant, abandoned malls here too you know.

[RyLucky]

I can't speak for the others, but I know The Core, Market Mall, and Sunridge are all pretty popular malls in Calgary. I'd put The Core and Chinook on equal footing.

I can't speak for other Canadian centres either, but I'd say that all of Calgary's malls, even Calgary's crappy malls (Northhill, Northland, Westbrook, etc) are quite healthy. I'd love to see any of these redeveloped for more mixed/urban uses, but I'm sure they are happy to keep chugging along.

Malls in Calgary that have a real chance of attracting first-to-market international retailers are Chinook, the Core, Market Mall, Southcentre, and Sunridge (probably in that order). The Core serves a unique market, being more upscale and urban than the others. Chinook is in the midst of planning yet another massive expansion that will include a variety of uses. There are a handful of newer, unconventional malls (ie. Aspen/85th, Airport, Marda Loop, Seton...) that may also attract first to market tenants.

What Calgary really needs though, is more urban-format retailers in the inner city. Currently, we don't really have development like Vancouver's Cambie Street (the area with Canadian Tire, Whole Foods, etc), which I think could really improve inner city living were it built in, say, Calgary's Beltline. Stephen Ave has some that are also part of the Core (ie Holt Renfrew, Indigo, etc); 17th ave is just starting to catch on (ie Best buy); but it's going to take more to really establish inner city BRZs (business revitalization zones) as shopping destinations. Currently, the Beltline, Kensington, Bridgeland, Inglewood, Marda Loop, Renfrew, Bowness, and International Ave are good places for food, boutique shopping, or being a pedestrian, but retailers here are losing out to the big malls. Hopefully this changes as inner city population density increases.

[eternallyme]

I am sorry guys, but Canada does not know and hopefully will not know the term "dead mall". I just drove by a dead mall in the USA the other day, and Canada just does not have the that kind of retail decay.

I can only speak for Toronto, but all the malls are doing well. Are some places more regional and popular? For sure. But that does not mean the other places are left to rot.

But our malls even the less popular ones are not doing badly at all.

We just have to make sure we do not over build retail like the USA did.

The only troubling trend in Canada is that some suburban malls are starting to become destinations for retail, that would have normally only located downtown even a decade ago.
You see this particularly in Calgary where many big names choose to have their only Calgary location at Chinook instead of downtown.
Or in Toronto where Yorkdale has been getting a number of the new to the region stores in the last few years. This normally would not have been the case, and it is a little troubling.

Really? What is so bad about that? You have a deep anti-suburban mindset...

[kwoldtimer]

I am sorry guys, but Canada does not know and hopefully will not know the term "dead mall". I just drove by a dead mall in the USA the other day, and Canada just does not have the that kind of retail decay.
I can only speak for Toronto, but all the malls are doing well. Are some places more regional and popular? For sure. But that does not mean the other places are left to rot.

But our malls even the less popular ones are not doing badly at all.

We just have to make sure we do not over build retail like the USA did.

The only troubling trend in Canada is that some suburban malls are starting to become destinations for retail, that would have normally only located downtown even a decade ago.
You see this particularly in Calgary where many big names choose to have their only Calgary location at Chinook instead of downtown.
Or in Toronto where Yorkdale has been getting a number of the new to the region stores in the last few years. This normally would not have been the case, and it is a little troubling.

Really? Kitchener had two shopping malls in the Downtown (Market Square and King Centre) that both died deader than the Monty Python parrot and had to be converted to other uses. In the case of Market Square, the remnant left in retail space remains a near-death experience (latest to close - Canada Post!).

[isaidso]

We had one of the new format Tim Horton's stores in Moncton for several months now. Also. there are several Timmies/Cold Stone Creamery combo stores in southeastern NB. They have been present for a couple of years I think.

Perhaps they should just buy Cold Stone Creamery.

[ue]

I am sorry guys, but Canada does not know and hopefully will not know the term "dead mall". I just drove by a dead mall in the USA the other day, and Canada just does not have the that kind of retail decay.

I can only speak for Toronto, but all the malls are doing well. Are some places more regional and popular? For sure. But that does not mean the other places are left to rot.

But our malls even the less popular ones are not doing badly at all.

We just have to make sure we do not over build retail like the USA did.

The only troubling trend in Canada is that some suburban malls are starting to become destinations for retail, that would have normally only located downtown even a decade ago.
You see this particularly in Calgary where many big names choose to have their only Calgary location at Chinook instead of downtown.
Or in Toronto where Yorkdale has been getting a number of the new to the region stores in the last few years. This normally would not have been the case, and it is a little troubling.

Then no, you do not know whether or not the entire nation-state of Canada is without a single dead mall. "Canada" exists beyond Niagara Falls and Cottage Country, in case you forgot. Edmonton has some malls that are near the end of their life expectancy -- Abottsfield Mall and Capilano (which is partially being torn down and turned into a shopping centre). Can't imagine the entirety of the GTA is without a single dead mall though, but you'd likely know better as a local.

[TownGuy]

One I can think of in the GTA is Whitby Mall. There's a passport office and couple name stores but that's about it. Really eerie place.

[brithgob]

Regina has had two malls, Normanview and Sherwood, "de-mall" which removes most or all of the interior corridor to leave a cluster of stores with their own entrances.

[Ramako]

How's Cloverdale Mall in Etobicoke doing these days?

[canarob]

While the GTA has a few dead malls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeydale_Mall), I don't think it has as many compared to smaller metros because we have far fewer malls per capita. Aside from Vaughan Mills and an outlet mall that just opened in Halton, nothing has been built since the 80s while population has surged. Power centres have never really filled the gap, and pretty much every mall in the GTA is either renovating or expanding since most of these locations are considered prime.

Also, much of the space that would have been using for "traditional retail" is now "ethnic retail." Market Village in Markham used to be a "traditional mall," but it's been a "Chinese Mall" for many years. It's currently being redeveloped in an attempt to attract a mix of both types of retail, but presently these types of retail do not typically coexist. So, you end up with cities like Markham with 350,000 people with only one major traditional mall (Markville). I'm not sure this is something you would see elsewhere in Canada. From my experience, even cities with 100,000 people tend to have two traditional malls, even if one is a "dirt mall."

[eternallyme]

While the GTA has a few dead malls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeydale_Mall), I don't think it has as many compared to smaller metros because we have far fewer malls per capita. Aside from Vaughan Mills and an outlet mall that just opened in Halton, nothing has been built since the 80s while population has surged. Power centres have never really filled the gap, and pretty much every mall in the GTA is either renovating or expanding since most of these locations are considered prime.

Also, much of the space that would have been using for "traditional retail" is now "ethnic retail." Market Village in Markham used to be a "traditional mall," but it's been a "Chinese Mall" for many years. It's currently being redeveloped in an attempt to attract a mix of both types of retail, but presently these types of retail do not typically coexist. So, you end up with cities like Markham with 350,000 people with only one major traditional mall (Markville). I'm not sure this is something you would see elsewhere in Canada. From my experience, even cities with 100,000 people tend to have two traditional malls, even if one is a "dirt mall."

With all the high-end retail coming in, there aren't really any in Toronto or its suburbs east of the 404/DVP (i.e. Scarborough, Markham, Durham Region) and that area has at least 1.5 million people. Also I haven't heard anything of the east-end malls expanding greatly either. Are the demographics different in the eastern part of the GTA?

[TownGuy]

The Oshawa Centre is expanding.

http://www.ivanhoecambridge.com/en-CA/pressreleases/2013/01/oshawacentretoenterintoneweraofshopping/index.aspx

[eternallyme]

The Oshawa Centre is expanding.

http://www.ivanhoecambridge.com/en-CA/pressreleases/2013/01/oshawacentretoenterintoneweraofshopping/index.aspx

It's probably the best location of all of the suburban malls in the GTA, located not too far from downtown Oshawa. I think Durham needs to remove the Highway 2 couplet and make King Street a mainstreet (while downgrading Bond to a collector) though, looking at the street network there...

[canarob]

With all the high-end retail coming in, there aren't really any in Toronto or its suburbs east of the 404/DVP (i.e. Scarborough, Markham, Durham Region) and that area has at least 1.5 million people. Also I haven't heard anything of the east-end malls expanding greatly either. Are the demographics different in the eastern part of the GTA?

Well, in addition to the Oshawa Centre expansion that's mentioned above, Scarborough Town Centre and Markville have both undergone substantial renovations that have brought in higher-end retail (Markville has Apple, J Crew, Coach, etc. now). In terms of Markville, the plan is essentially to make it a higher-end mall before further expansion since some of what was there before the renovations was lower-end (Bulk Barn, etc.). It was never a dead mall, but it's becoming much higher-end these days. I would expect that expansion is definitely in the works in the next five years once all the renovated space has been filled up. Also, the Downtown Markham project will be sort of a "Shops of Don Mills" outdoor-mall-thing with 2 million square feet of retail, so that might count as something between a traditional mall and a power centre when it's finished.

In terms of demographics, looking at the GTA east of the 404 is a bit misleading though. North of Steeles (York Region) is a much different market than Scarborough and Durham Region in terms of housing prices, etc. Scarborough and Durham are generally the cheapest regions of the GTA, with some exceptions. In York, Vaughan Mills just announced a big expansion.

[miketoronto]

Yes there are some downtown malls which have become vacant or are being turned into other uses. And some local malls have fallen on harder times. But overall what we consider dead malls are not fully vacant most of the time.
We just do not have the decay like the USA where entire regional malls and even surrounding strip plazas are left vacant.

The photos below show a true dead mall, and I challenge you to find a similar large regional mall and area left to rot like this in Canada?

Randall Park Mall including abandoned hotel, Cleveland. This would be like Chinook or Yorkdale going vacant.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2816/9413083378_3d4b7f0320_c.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3764/9413082806_c10ec8c85c_c.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5487/9413082212_852182b6bd_h.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3689/9410318373_b3ef222c4a_c.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2822/9410318073_ba21153cc9_c.jpg

Photos by me

[eternallyme]

Those pictures are just scary...

Downtown malls going down? I only see that in Winnipeg right now...partly because they are only 4 km from an existing established mall...

[Acajack]

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3689/9410318373_b3ef222c4a_c.jpg



I think there is some kind of law that says that if a mall has those type of white arches it just has to die.

[isaidso]

The bizarre thing about places like Cleveland is that they keep building new subdivisions and malls. People leave the old areas when they sense it's in decline then simply replicate it further out. The result is that these cities are sprawling out continuously leaving holes of decaying nothingness all over.

[miketoronto]

Really? What is so bad about that? You have a deep anti-suburban mindset...

Funny, I thought this was a forum about celebrating cities? Why would I support the continued expansion of malls in places where they are not warranted and just eat away at the downtown core?

I am not anti-suburban, although I am if they are not properly built and planned suburbs.

The retail picture in many Canadian downtowns is just not as healthy as it could be, and we should not be moving more action to the edge when our cities are not beating at full steam.

Check out these photos I just took in Stuttgart, Germany of their city centre on a Saturday. Stuttgart is not much larger than Calgary. I would like to see Calgary have that much action downtown on a weekend. But it is having trouble doing that because all the things that make a city great, including unique retail are being built in places like Chinook Mall.
In Stuttgart in contrast, the trains were full going into the city because everyone goes into the city centre on the weekend. Not only to shop, but to also relax in the public squares, etc.
It was so great, and shows that we have a lot of work to do here in Canada.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2842/9426682937_5e231d2e8e_c.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5462/9429456696_ec9280be80_c.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2854/9426681053_1ae6e54593_c.jpg

Contrary to the thinking in Canada and the USA that department stores are too big and need to downsize(because they have too many branches in each city), Stuttgart's most famous department store just expanded their downtown location into one of the largest stores in Europe.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3831/9426683961_bb05d9c993_c.jpg

[eemy]

Isn't Stuttgart more on the scale of Toronto or Montreal?

[GreatTallNorth2]

Isn't Stuttgart more on the scale of Toronto or Montreal?

I live in Bath, UK (population 80,000) and I bet Bath would have more people in the city centre than Calgary on a Saturday. There are some malls in the UK but for the most part, everything is in the city centre. I hate suburbia now with a passion, no soul and boring.

[miketoronto]

I live in Bath, UK (population 80,000) and I bet Bath would have more people in the city centre than Calgary on a Saturday. There are some malls in the UK but for the most part, everything is in the city centre. I hate suburbia now with a passion, no soul and boring.

But the thing is that malls are not totally bad. I noticed in some European cities I was, that the mall for the city was built as an urban mall into the city centre. Sort of like the Toronto Eaton Centre.
So people get the mall and street fix in one area.

[eternallyme]

But the thing is that malls are not totally bad. I noticed in some European cities I was, that the mall for the city was built as an urban mall into the city centre. Sort of like the Toronto Eaton Centre.
So people get the mall and street fix in one area.

In many cities, the downtown is not the most attractive area or even close to that. Take Winnipeg, for example, the downtown area is one of the least affluent and least attractive parts of the entire city. Even mid-level retail would not likely set up there.

Also comparing Calgary (or Edmonton or Ottawa) to Toronto - the GTA is 5x the size, so if a store were to locate in Calgary once, it would likely locate in Toronto in 5 locations and maintain the same proportion of sales. Of course they wouldn't have 5 downtown and 0 suburban locations - 1 and 4 make the most sense in that sense. Some of the suburbs are trying to build up into downtowns anyway (take North York Centre for a comparable situation)...

[miketoronto]

In some cities, the downtown is not the most attractive area or even close to that. Take Winnipeg, for example, the downtown area is one of the least affluent and least attractive parts of the entire city. Even mid-level retail would not likely set up there.

Also comparing Calgary (or Edmonton or Ottawa) to Toronto - the GTA is 5x the size, so if a store were to locate in Calgary once, it would likely locate in Toronto in 5 locations and maintain the same proportion of sales.

Winnipeg made the downtown unattractive to retail by allowing too many malls to be a built in a city that did not need those malls.
Why would a city of 600,000 need a super regional mall (Polo Park) like 4 km from its downtown retail district?

By allowing uncontrolled retail growth (like most North American cities have), the cities have killed off their central areas.

The truth is cities like Winnipeg, Hamilton, and other mid sized cities just do not need the amount of malls they have.
They probably don't even need any, and should have focused on building a vibrant city core.

And why does a store need say 5 locations in a big city? I noticed while in Europe last month that many stores only had one location even in big cities like London. And that location was in the central retail area.
Additional stores do not really increase sales. It just reduces sales at one location.

Retail in North America just overdoes it way too much. And what we are left with are small stores, with little selection.

The stores I was just at in Europe were a pleasure to go into it, with wide selections. But of course they can offer that when they are only worrying about one big store in most cases, per city.

[isaidso]

In many cities, the downtown is not the most attractive area or even close to that. Take Winnipeg, for example, the downtown area is one of the least affluent and least attractive parts of the entire city. Even mid-level retail would not likely set up there.


That's because it's been hollowed out by suburban malls. If those same stores had invested in downtown Winnipeg high streets, things would be very different. Most Canadian downtowns have been decimated and it's time to bring them back to life.

[christopherj]

Isn't Stuttgart more on the scale of Toronto or Montreal?

According to Wikipedia... "The sixth-largest city in Germany, Stuttgart has a population of 613,392 (December 2011) while the metropolitan area has a population of 5.3 million (2008)."

[Pavlov]

I live in Bath, UK (population 80,000) and I bet Bath would have more people in the city centre than Calgary on a Saturday. There are some malls in the UK but for the most part, everything is in the city centre. I hate suburbia now with a passion, no soul and boring.

Firstly, Bath is part of the Bristol metro area (which has a population of just over 1 million people.)

Secondly, Bath is a major tourist destination (indeed, the entire city is designated as a UNESCO World Heritage Site.)

Thirdly, Bath was founded in the first century. Calgary was founded in 1884.

My point, I suppose, is that it is very difficult to compare a city like Bath to a city like Calgary. There is simply no way for a city like Calgary to resemble a city like Bath. That's not to say that Calgary cannot improve (Lord knows that it can) or that it cannot learn anything from Bath, but it seems a bit silly to compare the two and wring our hands and moan that Bath has more pedestrians.

[miketoronto]

My point, I suppose, is that it is very difficult to compare a city like Bath to a city like Calgary. There is simply no way for a city like Calgary to resemble a city like Bath. That's not to say that Calgary cannot improve (Lord knows that it can) or that it cannot learn anything from Bath, but it seems a bit silly to compare the two and wring our hands and moan that Bath has more pedestrians.

I don't think it is silly at all. Cities the size of Bath in Canada also for the most part have dismal downtown vibrancy. And regardless of age, a city the size of Calgary just for example, should not have less vibrancy downtown then a small city like Bath. Even taking into account tourism, age, etc.
Downtown Calgary and the downtowns of many Canadian cities used to be busier 50 years ago than they are now, even though their populations are larger now.
And it comes down to a large extent on where retail, restaurants, etc have been locating.

Canada is not as bad as the USA, although we have to watch that we don't end up like the USA. But Canada is also not as good as Australian cities. Australian cities of all sizes have much more healthy downtowns which contain more retail offerings then similar sized cities in Canada.
Downtown Adelaide, Perth, or Brisbane can easily blow away downtown Calgary, Edmonton, or Winnipeg.
And it should not be that way. Our cities should be vibrant as well.
But Australian cities were for the most part even in the smaller centres, able to keep the choice retail in the downtown core.
Tiffany's opened in downtown Brisbane. They are not opening in Brisbane's version of Chinook Mall (where Tiffany's is opening in Calgary).

[eternallyme]

The closest thing to a downtown-dominated retail scene is probably in Ottawa...

[isaidso]

Firstly, Bath is part of the Bristol metro area (which has a population of just over 1 million people.)

Secondly, Bath is a major tourist destination (indeed, the entire city is designated as a UNESCO World Heritage Site.)

Thirdly, Bath was founded in the first century. Calgary was founded in 1884.

My point, I suppose, is that it is very difficult to compare a city like Bath to a city like Calgary. There is simply no way for a city like Calgary to resemble a city like Bath. That's not to say that Calgary cannot improve (Lord knows that it can) or that it cannot learn anything from Bath, but it seems a bit silly to compare the two and wring our hands and moan that Bath has more pedestrians.

That's a bit of a cop out. North American city cores were packed like sardines a century ago. Age isn't the culprit, city planning is. We abandoned our downtowns and built suburban malls that sucked all city life inside them. If we had valued high street shopping and invested in our downtowns they'd be every bit as busy as Bath or Stuttgart.

[miketoronto]

Scarborough Town Centre in Toronto is celebrating 40 years.
This is a special mall for me, as I grew up 5 minutes from it.

Check out the videos. I remember the giant Orange. Sadly the last couple years have seen Scarborough Town Centre lost basically all mom and pop local restaurants. So now its all chains. But before that we had a number of unique dining establishments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0h91FKkmCA&feature=share&list=UU_IxGqovkIms4agbXik7rKw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxUJbL67LLA&feature=share&list=UU_IxGqovkIms4agbXik7rKw

[MalcolmTucker]

I don't think it is silly at all. Cities the size of Bath in Canada also for the most part have dismal downtown vibrancy. And regardless of age, a city the size of Calgary just for example, should not have less vibrancy downtown then a small city like Bath. Even taking into account tourism, age, etc.
Downtown Calgary and the downtowns of many Canadian cities used to be busier 50 years ago than they are now, even though their populations are larger now.
And it comes down to a large extent on where retail, restaurants, etc have been locating.

Canada is not as bad as the USA, although we have to watch that we don't end up like the USA. But Canada is also not as good as Australian cities. Australian cities of all sizes have much more healthy downtowns which contain more retail offerings then similar sized cities in Canada.
Downtown Adelaide, Perth, or Brisbane can easily blow away downtown Calgary, Edmonton, or Winnipeg.
And it should not be that way. Our cities should be vibrant as well.
But Australian cities were for the most part even in the smaller centres, able to keep the choice retail in the downtown core.
Tiffany's opened in downtown Brisbane. They are not opening in Brisbane's version of Chinook Mall (where Tiffany's is opening in Calgary).

The Australian cities you listed are more in the Vancouver class save for Adelaide. And it is pretty easy to find large malls in Adelaide. Marion Mall is bigger than Chinook (1.44 milion square feet of retail space), Tea Tree is close to Chinook's size before the recent expansion (1 million square feet of retail space). They both have around A$500 per square foot for sales which is high since it includes anchors at first glance.

And this is only one operating company, Westfield (http://corporate.westfield.com/properties/au/westfield-west-lakes/?region=SA

[trebor204]

I think there is some kind of law that says that if a mall has those type of white arches it just has to die.


These pictures remind me of Greengate mall (another dead mall)


http://www.greengatemallrevisited.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=23053130

Yep white arches.

[MalcolmTucker]

Were the arches signature elements of an anchor tenant perhaps?

[SignalHillHiker]

A little good news for us.

I'm in Fredericton for the weekend and spoke with an employee at H&M who mentioned that "we're coming your way soon" after I said I was from NL. Since everyone automatically assumes you're from St. John's when you say you're from Newfoundland, I believe they will actually be coming your way soon!

[vid]

It would be ironic if the location was in Corner Brook.

[yyzer]

We were at Square One mall in Mississauga tonight. On leaving the mall, noticed new outdoor signage at the Bay...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7408/9528473006_0b0403d39e_b.jpg

I dunno, definitely a change from the old yellow signage...I posted a survey question on my local blog asking thumbs up or down, and as this is a Canada-wide change, feel free to visit and vote! :)

http://randyselzer.wordpress.com/2013/08/16/hudsons-bay-rebranding/

[connect2source]

Hmmmm, gee I'd never guess there was the 'old' bay logo there before:rolleyes:

A simple power-washing, to get the remnants of the old sign off would have made a far better impression, however, we'll always have a glimpse into the past on this one.

[SpongeG]

they need to change the signage at the door too

[Loco101]

Hmmmm, gee I'd never guess there was the 'old' bay logo there before:rolleyes:

A simple power-washing, to get the remnants of the old sign off would have made a far better impression, however, we'll always have a glimpse into the past on this one.

Probably left the "shadow" of the old sign for recognition reasons. I'm sure it will be fixed up at some point. The former "The Bay" logo was derived from the former Morgan's which was a Montreal based department store that was purchased by HBC in the 1960s.

[MTLskyline]

Probably left the "shadow" of the old sign for recognition reasons. I'm sure it will be fixed up at some point. The former "The Bay" logo was derived from the former Morgan's which was a Montreal based department store that was purchased by HBC in the 1960s.

Interesting! I never knew that!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6e/Morgan%27s.png/250px-Morgan%27s.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan%27s

[yaletown_fella]

Mark my words. The bunker on the north-east corner of Bay and Bloor will be torn down and redeveloped into a Saks store with a highrise component.

[LeftCoaster]

I'll mark em but that ain't going to happen.

The Bay store may get renovated into a Saks but they two 40 storey buildings on top aren't going anywhere.

[Airboy]

Heard from a Very Reliable sourse there will only be 3 SACs in Canada. TO, Vancouver and Calgary. All else will probably get the discount stores.

[kwoldtimer]

Heard from a Very Reliable sourse there will only be 3 SACs in Canada. TO, Vancouver and Calgary. All else will probably get the discount stores.

That sounds about right, although I have wondered whether there won't eventually be a 4th one in a GTA mall, if the first three succeed? Time will tell.

[vanatox]

Heard from a Very Reliable sourse there will only be 3 SACs in Canada. TO, Vancouver and Calgary. All else will probably get the discount stores.

According to a spokesperson with The Hudson's Bay Company, one will open in Montreal as well.

http://www.retail-insider.com/2013/08/saks-fifth-avenue-to-open-in-montreal.html

[miketoronto]

Seriously this is getting a little out of control. There is no reason we need Saks in Canada.

The continued carbon copy culture will soon turn all our cities into little copies of each other, with nothing unique anymore.

Not that I buy high end all that much. But I will continue to spend my high end dollars at Holt Renfrew and unique one of a kind shops. Not at American transplants, which I have to say just do not have the class of Holt Renfrew (save for the the "real" Saks in Manhattan).

Canadian retail is probably not going to remain strong if we keep this over expansion of carbon copy retail going. We are probably going to see sales per sq foot decline and much more lackluster profits in our stores.
It seems the American stores and now Canadian stores don't seem to learn from the mess the US is in, that over expansion just does not produce the sales. It just eats away business from existing locations.

Why do we need Saks, when almost all of the items in Saks can be found in existing stores in Canada? It is not like it is this different shopping experience.

As I said before. There is only one Saks that offers a different experience, and that is the Manhattan flagship, and maybe the downtown San Francisco store. All the others including the ones in Canada will probably be small suburban mall size stores, that just fail to offer anything you can't get somewhere else in Canada's high end shopping districts.

[kwoldtimer]

Seriously this is getting a little out of control. There is no reason we need Saks in Canada.

The continued carbon copy culture will soon turn all our cities into little copies of each other, with nothing unique anymore.

Not that I buy high end all that much. But I will continue to spend my high end dollars at Holt Renfrew and unique one of a kind shops. Not at American transplants, which I have to say just do not have the class of Holt Renfrew (save for the the "real" Saks in Manhattan).

Canadian retail is probably not going to remain strong if we keep this over expansion of carbon copy retail going. We are probably going to see sales per sq foot decline and much more lackluster profits in our stores.
It seems the American stores and now Canadian stores don't seem to learn from the mess the US is in, that over expansion just does not produce the sales. It just eats away business from existing locations.

Why do we need Saks, when almost all of the items in Saks can be found in existing stores in Canada? It is not like it is this different shopping experience.

As I said before. There is only one Saks that offers a different experience, and that is the Manhattan flagship, and maybe the downtown San Francisco store. All the others including the ones in Canada will probably be small suburban mall size stores, that just fail to offer anything you can't get somewhere else in Canada's high end shopping districts.

"Need"? This is about contemporary retailing - need has very little to do with it. They all sell overwhelmingly foreign crap (and often the same crap as their lines overlap considerably) to feed the consumption culture. What does it matter what the logo on the door is?

[eternallyme]

http://www.retail-insider.com/2013/08/goodbye-sears-canada-hello-macys.html

Don't know about that. Agreed that Sears is on its way out though.

I think higher-end chains will want the prime real estate - i.e. the major downtown stores (which Sears has very few of anyway - only the Eaton Centre remains I believe, and surely Nordstrom and others will desire that first) and the most successful suburban malls. That leaves them with the less successful malls which are likely bound to struggle in the years to come, and using that as a starting point is probably not a smart strategy.

Honestly, I see dead malls coming to Canada in the near future...mainly in the less affluent suburbs, where they are too large for any community-level use, but severely overshadowed by super-regionals.

[neilson]

http://www.retail-insider.com/2013/08/goodbye-sears-canada-hello-macys.html

Don't know about that. Agreed that Sears is on its way out though.

I think higher-end chains will want the prime real estate - i.e. the major downtown stores (which Sears has very few of anyway - only the Eaton Centre remains I believe, and surely Nordstrom and others will desire that first) and the most successful suburban malls. That leaves them with the less successful malls which are likely bound to struggle in the years to come, and using that as a starting point is probably not a smart strategy.

Honestly, I see dead malls coming to Canada in the near future...mainly in the less affluent suburbs, where they are too large for any community-level use, but severely overshadowed by super-regionals.
Folks thought 15 years ago when Eaton's died, there would be Dead Malls too. Canada did not suffer that impact.

[J.OT13]

There is a trend of suburban malls dying, or at least suffering in Ottawa. Place d'Orleans is limping somewhat, even rented a large part of the second floor, originally retail, as office space to the RCMP. The Heron Gate Mall built in 1981 has recently been torn down. The Hazeldean Mall is also pretty pathetic but I imagine the new Target store might rejuvenate the place. Other smaller suburban malls might also be suffering.

On the other hand, the big regional malls such as St. Laurent and Bayshore (currently expanding and will see a few new to Ottawa stores such as H&M) are thriving.

The Rideau Centre downtown is rolling in dough and will also be revamped and expanded soon. Confirmed stores, new to the market, are Simons and of course Nordstrom. Hudson's bay across the street, which is connected to the Rideau by two skywalks, should start renovations soon (hopefully) and could potentially hold a small Saks to complement the expanded Rideau Centre. Both the Rideau will have a few direct connections to the subway station of the same name.

Holt has been wanting out of its current location; the current store is only 36,000 square feet and situated in a corner of the business district that is totally dead on evenings and weekends.

[SpongeG]

a lot of malls die because they can't get the retailers they want or that would help them, because so many malls in one area are owned by one company such as ivanhoe-cambridge or whatever company and when they sign lease deals they often put in clauses that that particualr retailer if they plan to open another location open in one of their other properties hence why some malls thrive and expand and other smaller ones or ones not able to make such retailer deals die a slow death :(

[caltrane74]

Stores in the Eaton Centre will be open till 9:30pm on Saturdays. They use to only be open till 7pm on Saturdays. This will help those that want to shop and then go clubbing or dining on a late Saturday night.

[armorand93]

a lot of malls die because they can't get the retailers they want or that would help them, because so many malls in one area are owned by one company such as-

If Cadillac-Fairview owns Chinook Mall in Calgary and pumped a ton of shit into it, they should do the same for Polo Park in Winnipeg. All of the same stores are starting to annoy me...

[kwoldtimer]

Shopping malls in Canada are proof that someday all the restaurants will be Taco Bell! :yes:

[Chadillaccc]

haha demolition man! Awesome movie!

[eternallyme]

If Cadillac-Fairview owns Chinook Mall in Calgary and pumped a ton of shit into it, they should do the same for Polo Park in Winnipeg. All of the same stores are starting to annoy me...

How many openings are there in that mall though? Are they just going to force retailers out otherwise?

[vid]

Shopping malls in Canada are proof that someday all the restaurants will be Taco Bell! :yes:

You obviously haven't been to a mall that has Taco Time. ;) Far superior. I have never met anyone who has tried both and prefers Taco Bell. They always say Taco Time is better.

[miketoronto]

Shopping malls in Canada are proof that someday all the restaurants will be Taco Bell! :yes:

Joking a side this is what makes malls and sadly many of our inner city retail districts boring now, because it is all the same stuff.

I remember growing up that yes regional malls had chain stores. But they also had an interesting little collection of unique mom and pop restaurants and stuff.
The big regional mall near my house had this amazing family run restaurant that was a local institution to go to. Sadly it closed when the family retired.

But now the malls don't have that anymore. Its all Milestones, Jack Astors, etc. Nothing unique.

[kwoldtimer]

Joking a side this is what makes malls and sadly many of our inner city retail districts boring now, because it is all the same stuff.

I remember growing up that yes regional malls had chain stores. But they also had an interesting little collection of unique mom and pop restaurants and stuff.
The big regional mall near my house had this amazing family run restaurant that was a local institution to go to. Sadly it closed when the family retired.

But now the malls don't have that anymore. Its all Milestones, Jack Astors, etc. Nothing unique.

Mainstream shopping in Canada today overwhelmingly consists of spending significant amounts of time purchasing foreign crap that is not really needed from mass chain merchants who sell much the same foreign crap (distinguished only by marketing and "image"). I'm convinced that the only reason many people still go to malls and big box outlets rather than buying on-line is that they really don't have any worthwhile activities to occupy their rather mind-numbing lives. It's sad and even rather disturbing, actually, especially as the economy would probably collapse if people stopped doing it.

[MonctonRad]

Joking a side this is what makes malls and sadly many of our inner city retail districts boring now, because it is all the same stuff.

I remember growing up that yes regional malls had chain stores. But they also had an interesting little collection of unique mom and pop restaurants and stuff.
The big regional mall near my house had this amazing family run restaurant that was a local institution to go to. Sadly it closed when the family retired.

But now the malls don't have that anymore. Its all Milestones, Jack Astors, etc. Nothing unique.

Sounds like Champlain Place here in Moncton.

a couple of years ago, Cadillac Fairview spent something like $15M to completely renovate the interior of the mall and push it upscale. At the same time, a conscious decision was made to not renew the leases of locally owned businesses in the mall. Instead, higher end national retailers like Sephora, Swarovski, H&M, Coach and Fossil were brought in to complement existing established national chains like Eddie Bauer, Gap, Tommy Hilfiger etc.

The mall is very nice, but it seems to be a clone of other "fashion malls" I have visited in other Canadian cities. I appreciate the vote of confidence that Cadillac Fairview has given Moncton, but at the same time, I find it a little sad to see the local retailers pushed out. I think the only local business left in the mall (out of about 150 tenants) is a mens hairstylist called Cuts 2000......

[Acajack]

Mainstream shopping in Canada today overwhelmingly consists of spending significant amounts of time purchasing foreign crap that is not really needed from mass chain merchants who sell much the same foreign crap (distinguished only by marketing and "image"). I'm convinced that the only reason many people still go to malls and big box outlets rather than buying on-line is that they really don't have any worthwhile activities to occupy their rather mind-numbing lives. It's sad and even rather disturbing, actually, especially as the economy would probably collapse if people stopped doing it.

Is shopping not the number one recreational activity in North America now?

Housework is done, it's 1 pm on Saturday, whaddaya do? Go to the mall and see if there's ''anything there''. Not based on a real need or anything like that.

[kwoldtimer]

Is shopping not the number one recreational activity in North America now?

Housework is done, it's 1 pm on Saturday, whaddaya do? Go to the mall and see if there's ''anything there''. Not based on a real need or anything like that.

I believe that to be the case and I find it somewhat frightening. Consumption for consumption's sake has become such a huge part of our economy. I suppose you could argue that we have collectively grown so wealthy that it doesn't matter, but I tend to see it as part of the "dumbing down" of society.

[manny_santos]

Shopping is an experience, that's why people spend so much time on it. I almost never buy anything online because I prefer getting out, sometimes with friends, and actually looking at products before buying them. Then again, I live near a vibrant downtown area and I do also avoid big box shopping where possible.

[kwoldtimer]

Shopping is an experience, that's why people spend so much time on it. I almost never buy anything online because I prefer getting out, sometimes with friends, and actually looking at products before buying them. Then again, I live near a vibrant downtown area and I do also avoid big box shopping where possible.

Yes, the kind of mall shopping we were referring to is an experience. A mundane one, but an experience. I think that's why it has become a form of recreation, faute de mieux.

[toaster]

Mainstream shopping in Canada today overwhelmingly consists of spending significant amounts of time purchasing foreign crap that is not really needed from mass chain merchants who sell much the same foreign crap (distinguished only by marketing and "image"). I'm convinced that the only reason many people still go to malls and big box outlets rather than buying on-line is that they really don't have any worthwhile activities to occupy their rather mind-numbing lives. It's sad and even rather disturbing, actually, especially as the economy would probably collapse if people stopped doing it.

Who are we to judge if someone gets pleasure from seeking out merchants, getting deals, and just simply shopping. This holier than thou attitude is rather annoying. Who made you in charge of determining what activities are worthwhile. If someone gets the same pleasure out of shopping that you get out of, ohh, let me take a wild guess, classical music, or, err.. going to watch broadway (I get the sense that your nose is high in the air), what makes it less worthwhile? In fact, your attitude is quite ego-centric, this idea that others engagements are below your own.

[isaidso]

:previous: 'kwoldtimer' is hardly saying anything that's not common knowledge already. Many people shop to make themselves feel better or they value their self worth based on how expensive their stuff is/how much stuff they have. It's a trap, delusional, and highly unhealthy behaviour. Don't tell me this is the first time someone has pointed this out? Brand association is one of the most important concepts in marketing and corporations take advantage of that weakness in the human condition.

They're exploiting emotionally empty people. That's why it's frowned upon. Wearing Prada shoes doesn't make one a high quality person, it just means you're wearing high quality shoes. That's a point lost on most people. People who obsessively drape themselves in luxury brands are just buying into a lie, others just view them as sad people chasing something that will never make them happy.

Shopping is an experience, that's why people spend so much time on it.

For some people that's true. For me, shopping is a chore/job that needs doing. The one exception is food shopping. I enjoy that and can spend 3-4 hours in one store. Objects like clothes, furniture, or consumer products? Despite liking design, I'll put off buying objects as long as possible and only go when I can't put it off any longer.

[toaster]

:previous: 'kwoldtimer' is hardly saying anything that's not common knowledge already. Many people shop to make themselves feel better or they value their self worth based on how expensive their stuff is/how much stuff they have. It's a trap, delusional, and highly unhealthy behaviour. Don't tell me this is the first time someone has pointed this out? Brand association is one of the most important concepts in marketing and corporations take advantage of that weakness in the human condition.

They're exploiting emotionally empty people. That's why it's frowned upon. Wearing Prada shoes doesn't make one a high quality person, it just means you're wearing high quality shoes. That's a point lost on most people. People who obsessively drape themselves in luxury brands are just buying into a lie, others just view them as sad people chasing something that will never make them happy.



For some people that's true. For me, shopping is a chore/job that needs doing. The one exception is food shopping. I enjoy that and can spend 3-4 hours in one store. Objects like clothes, furniture, or consumer products? Despite liking design, I'll put off buying objects as long as possible and only go when I can't put it off any longer.

My point was that there are many shoppers who are consciously and purposely spending their time shopping because they enjoy it. Whether they enjoy it because it fills a void, or any other reason, is rather irrelevant. You can say the same about any activity. I disagreed with "kwoldtimer" because he was classifying it as less worthwhile than most activities. Also, this idea that anyone who buys luxury brands is "buying into a lie". How is it that you are able to know what these shoppers are thinking when they are shopping. I like to give shoppers some credit. People are buying different brands to put forth an image. I'm sure most people who buy a Lacoste polo know there are many at Sears that are of the same quality for much less. Basically, I'm arguing that it isn't that they are not aware, which is what the argument basically seems to be. They aren't "buying into the lie", they know this "lie" exists, but that doesn't mean they don't want to take part in it, or that it can't make them happy.

[miketoronto]

Who are we to judge if someone gets pleasure from seeking out merchants, getting deals, and just simply shopping. This holier than thou attitude is rather annoying. Who made you in charge of determining what activities are worthwhile. If someone gets the same pleasure out of shopping that you get out of, ohh, let me take a wild guess, classical music, or, err.. going to watch broadway (I get the sense that your nose is high in the air), what makes it less worthwhile? In fact, your attitude is quite ego-centric, this idea that others engagements are below your own.

I think as city lovers we can appreciate that shopping does create a lot of vibrancy in our cities.
The truth is most of the iconic streets in our world cities would be nothing without the shops, restaurants, and entertainment that make them interesting places to visit.

That is the fun thing I found about my recent visit in Europe. Families just descend on the city centres on a Saturday and hang out. Does it include shopping, you bet.

[Acajack]

Mainstream shopping in Canada today overwhelmingly consists of spending significant amounts of time purchasing foreign crap that is not really needed from mass chain merchants who sell much the same foreign crap (distinguished only by marketing and "image"). I'm convinced that the only reason many people still go to malls and big box outlets rather than buying on-line is that they really don't have any worthwhile activities to occupy their rather mind-numbing lives. It's sad and even rather disturbing, actually, especially as the economy would probably collapse if people stopped doing it.

Just thinking about this and though I share the reticences about shopping, it is true that people who bought useless stuff for ages. I mean, how long has jewellery been around? Unless it"s a watch, is there anything more useless than jewellery?

Although of course today the sheer amount of useless stuff people acquire is completely off the charts.

[Acajack]

I think as city lovers we can appreciate that shopping does create a lot of vibrancy in our cities.
The truth is most of the iconic streets in our world cities would be nothing without the shops, restaurants, and entertainment that make them interesting places to visit.

That is the fun thing I found about my recent visit in Europe. Families just descend on the city centres on a Saturday and hang out. Does it include shopping, you bet.

This is true.

And I know this is heresy on here, but I find I have gotten less anti-mall recently - as I've observed them more.

I mean, I realize the whole public space vs. private space thing that distinguishes a main city street from a mall, but I can't help but notice (despite all my willingness to do the opposite) that a mall fairly reasonably serves the same societal function as a shopping street.

One of the criticisms about a mall is that certain members of society are excluded or at least unwelcome there, but this is true of most streets as well. Or at least streets where families would go for a stroll. Undesirable behaviour is not tolerated on the Champs-Élysées anymore than it is in a mall.

Busking? Well, in many cities you actually need a permit and have to audition in order to do this.

And as far as undesirables go, I doubt there are very many malls these days in North America where people with punk hairdos or anything of the sort would be forbidden from entering. You might get watched more by mall security, but then again the cops would do this on a street as well.

[MolsonExport]

Taco Bell is the fast-food equivalent of sMiley Sigh-rus: Gross.

http://pmchollywoodlife.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/miley-cyrus-vma-issues-2013-lead.jpg?w=600http://www.middlechildsyndrome.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/taco-bell-2.jpg
chollywoodlife, middlechildsyndrome

[Xelebes]

They're exploiting emotionally empty people. That's why it's frowned upon. Wearing Prada shoes doesn't make one a high quality person, it just means you're wearing high quality shoes. That's a point lost on most people. People who obsessively drape themselves in luxury brands are just buying into a lie, others just view them as sad people chasing something that will never make them happy.

No, I would hope that anyone who buys Pradas or other similarly expensive shoes is doing so to meet the standard of formal dress for the occasions that they might need to dress such.

[miketoronto]

This is true.

And I know this is heresy on here, but I find I have gotten less anti-mall recently - as I've observed them more.


I don't think malls are totally bad either. I think they do however have to be allowed in ways that they don't take away from the city. Example, the Toronto Eaton Centre or Rideau Centre.

[eternallyme]

Why have downtown malls been extremely successful in some cities (i.e. Toronto, Ottawa) and absolute failures in others (i.e. Winnipeg)?

[MolsonExport]

Downtown malls stink in medium-sized cities. You need a critical mass of office workers + residents as well as a large enough attraction. Why on earth would suburbanites want to travel to a downtown mall and pay to park if only getting access to the same store assortment as they have at the nearby suburban mall with free parking?

And many suburban malls are now dying as a consequence of Dumbcentres and other big box collections, exacerbated by pro-sprawl city councils addicted to developers' fees and ribbon cutting ceremonies. See: London, Ontario as a Harvard Business School Case.

[Acajack]

Why have downtown malls been extremely successful in some cities (i.e. Toronto, Ottawa) and absolute failures in others (i.e. Winnipeg)?

In the case of Ottawa, the Rideau Centre is a major transit hub and you have to literally walk through it in order to transfer between two major "axes" of transit: the Transitway lines are at one end of the mall and the more urban downtown lines in addition to all the Gatineau lines are at the other.

Plus, it's located right in the middle of where lots of people go for other reasons: the Byward Market and Parliament Hill.

Montreal's downtown malls are for the most part quite successful as well.

[SteelTown]

Jackson Square has made a complete turn around within the last two years. Sheraton Hotel connected to Jackson Square got a complete makeover and will have downtown Hamilton's first Starbucks. Anchor Bar set up it's first Canadian location in Jackson Square, which lead to Yak Yak re-locating to Jackson Square as well. Nations Fresh Foods finished building a massive high end flagship grocery store also. A grocery store wouldn't happened if residential growth didn't occurred in downtown Hamilton.

Along with the construction of a new downtown McMaster campus it's adding more bodies to downtown Hamilton which is helping Jackson Square.

[ScreamingViking]

Downtown malls stink in medium-sized cities. You need a critical mass of office workers + residents as well as a large enough attraction. Why on earth would suburbanites want to travel to a downtown mall and pay to park if only getting access to the same store assortment as they have at the nearby suburban mall with free parking?

Completely agree with this. A downtown mall today needs to serve its downtown market. While we're stuck with some that should never have been built, or should have been re-purposed in the past, those that will survive and flourish will cater mainly to the needs of their local trade areas.

[Chadillaccc]

A very interesting article about the centenary of Calgary's Hudson's Bay store. It turned 100 years old on August 18.


Hudson's Bay opened 100 years ago, launching a new era in Calgary (with gallery)
By Eva Ferguson, Calgary Herald

Brimming with the excitement and optimism that permeated their burgeoning city at the turn of the century, nearly 8,000 Calgarians lined Stephen Avenue that summer's day, gloved ladies spinning parasols, top-hatted gentlemen checking pocket watches.

The Hudson's Bay downtown opened to great fanfare on Aug. 18, 1913 - marching bands, horses and more than 30 police officers standing by to keep the peace. The Marx Brothers would show at the Empress Theatre later that night.

Full story: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/Hudson+opened+years+launching+Calgary+with+gallery/8926113/story.html

[SpongeG]

No, I would hope that anyone who buys Pradas or other similarly expensive shoes is doing so to meet the standard of formal dress for the occasions that they might need to dress such.

most of the prada shoes at holt renfrew are too casual for formal plus prada shoes are so knocked off they are far too many fakes out there - i would avoid prada shoes myself

anyway how about these guccis :slob:

http://www.gucci.com/images/ecommerce/styles_new/201304/web_full/322730_DBL50_7623_001_web_full.jpg

about $600 or so at HR

[Ramako]

Man, I must not understand or appreciate fashion, because to me that looks like some typical running shoe spray-painted orange.

[SpongeG]

they also come in green, pink, black, yellow, grey and white

i love the monotone effect

http://www.gucci.com/images/ecommerce/styles_new/201304/web_full/322730_DBL50_3707_001_web_full.jpg

http://www.gucci.com/images/ecommerce/styles_new/201304/web_full/322730_DBL50_5616_001_web_full.jpg

[kwoldtimer]

Subtle. Understated. Classy.

[Chadillaccc]

Here's a pretty sweet pic I took of The Core not too long ago.


http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2860/9890949766_bdf2ac4c88_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/66175113@N06/9890949766/)
IMG_20130905_125325 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/66175113@N06/9890949766/) by Chadillaccc (http://www.flickr.com/people/66175113@N06/), on Flickr

[SpongeG]

nice

[eternallyme]

One thought on the other end of the retail spectrum:

Has the number of extreme low-end stores (i.e. dollar store types) increased recently as well? I know in the US, they have exploded lately, partially due to depressed incomes in the economic recession. In some cases, they are literally on every street corner.

[Chadillaccc]

I don't think there's a single dollar store or "value store" such as Ardene, etc. in the entire mall. There is one dollar store in Scotia Centre right next door though. The mall is fairly high end; Harry Rosens, Guess, Holt Renfrew, Louis Vuitton, etc. The cheapest clothing store in the mall is probably H&M. There's also a high-end car dealership in the mall for some reason. My favorite part of the mall is the fourth floor food court attached to the tropical gardens (called the Devonian Gardens), you get a beautiful view of the surrounding office towers from there, and a view down into the mall too. Very nice.

[Taeolas]

One thought on the other end of the retail spectrum:

Has the number of extreme low-end stores (i.e. dollar store types) increased recently as well? I know in the US, they have exploded lately, partially due to depressed incomes in the economic recession. In some cases, they are literally on every street corner.

Here in Fredericton, not that I've noticed. Granted, we already have 4 Dollerama's in the city, 1 down the hill from another which is around the corner from the third. (The fourth is across the river at least), and 2 Great Canadian Dollar Stores that I can think of off hand, along with 2 Giant Tigers. But they've all been here for years and pretty stable. (Strangely enough). We did have a stand alone dollar store open up briefly, but it closed after a year, and the slot's still empty (recently used for Target hiring)

[vid]

Thunder Bay has 6 or 7 Dollaramas now, the two that are set to open in a few weeks are occupying spaces that have been vacant for 5 or 6 years. One is part of the revitalization of a dead mall, the other is in a lower income part of downtown. It's a pretty useful store once you get past that fact that it's owned by Bain Capital.