Canadian Retail Thread

[manny_santos]

When was the last time the Bay actually opened a new store, though? Obviously not counting their recent foray into the Netherlands.

Most of the Bay stores I'm familiar with were former Simpson's stores, so they all date back to the 1980s or 1991 at the latest.

[manny_santos]

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/business/sears-canada-looking-to-liquidate-all-stores-1.3626217

[J.OT13]

That was a long and painful death. RIP Sears.

[ue]

Most of the Bay stores I'm familiar with were former Simpson's stores, so they all date back to the 1980s or 1991 at the latest.

Yeah, I'm meaning this decade, or at the very least, this century. It seems like the last new Bay stores opened in the '90s, like the one that took over the old Eatons in Downtown Edmonton.

If they restructured and standardized their stores to the level of quality that the key stores in Toronto and Vancouver have, they'd be a lot more powerful as a national brand rather than the sorry ass state they're currently in for most of Canada. Even the updates they've done to some of the key Edmonton stores are pretty forgettable compared to the Yorkdale or Granville locations. I believe even Calgary's stores are on a better level. In this case, they would be in a much better position to actually open new stores.

I could see them operating as such:
Victoria, Bay Centre
Vancouver, Granville St
Burnaby, Metrotown
Richmond, CF Richmond Centre
West Vancouver, Park Royal
Kelowna, Orchard Park
Calgary, The Core
Calgary, Chinook
Edmonton, Southgate
Edmonton, West Edm Mall
Saskatoon, Midtown Plaza
Regina, Cornwall Centre
Winnipeg, Polo Park
Winnipeg, St Vital Centre
Toronto, Queen St
North York, Yorkdale
Scarborough, Scarborough Centre
Etobicoke, Sherway Gardens
Mississauga, Square One
Markham, CF Markville
Newmarket, Upper Canada Mall
Hamilton, CF Lime Ridge
Waterloo, Conestoga Mall
London, White Oaks Mall
Kingston, Cataraqui Centre
Ottawa, Rideau Centre
Ottawa, Bayshore
Gatineau, Promenades Gatineau
Montreal, Rue St-Catherine
Montreal, Galeries d'Anjou
Pointe Claire, Fairview Pointe Claire
Laval, Carrefour Laval
Longueil, Mail Champlain
Quebec, Sainte-Foy
Quebec, Galeries de la Capitale
Dieppe, CF Champlain
Halifax, Micmac Mall

Could also see the case for opening new downtown stores in Edmonton, Kitchener-Waterloo, Quebec, and Halifax. Or, in Edmonton's case, completely gutting the existing one and starting fresh. Either way, as it stands, the Bay is too broad nationally for today's market and could use a severe downsizing. Unfortunately, such a downsizing would look really bad.

[trebor204]

Many malls currently have both a Sears and Hudson's Bay. I wonder if Hudson's Bay might willing to move to the former Sears location. Some of the Sears are larger and have a more prominent location.

[canucklehead2]

That's what we're gonna see. The Bay cherry pick (yet again) the best retail locations off of Sears and the rest will be redeveloped into other smaller tenants... Just like what we saw with Woodwards, Eatons, now Sears...

[le calmar]

It was only a matter of time before they'd closed down every location. I wonder if the Bay could not take advantage of this situation now that Sears is gone. Both chains were more or less competing against each other (and both offer a very bland and forgettable shopping experience)

[SignalHillHiker]

I don't think we've ever had a Bay in Newfoundland, which is a bit strange. Many other Canadian banks and companies had a presence here prior to us joining. My fave odd one: at one point, Canada's federal government ran a civilian airport used primarily by American servicemen in St. John's, then capital of a foreign country lol. The media here called it "confusing", which is just perfect.

Anyhow, I think the huge general department stores can't compete against Wal-Mart. They're not different enough. Smaller, specialty stores can. I expect we will see the Sears space in the Avalon Mall broken up into a dozen or more little stores.

[WhipperSnapper]

Nordstrom has Nordstrom Rack. The Bay could expand on their current Zellers properties.

[someone123]

I don't think we've ever had a Bay in Newfoundland, which is a bit strange. Many other Canadian banks and companies had a presence here prior to us joining. My fave odd one: at one point, Canada's federal government ran a civilian airport used primarily by American servicemen in St. John's, then capital of a foreign country lol. The media here called it "confusing", which is just perfect.

I don't think they ever had much presence in Atlantic Canada. The ones in the Halifax area were in suburban malls (one was originally a standalone suburban Simpson's that was built around 1920). There never was an older downtown location. These were mostly or entirely a Western Canada phenomenon.

Quebec City may have been the same. There is a Hudson's Bay building in downtown Montreal but apparently it used to be Morgan's.

[J.OT13]

Yup, Downtown Montreal's HBC was Morgan's, and so was Ottawa's first HBC on Sparks, until they bought out Freiman's (local department store) on Rideau and relocated.

[Acajack]

Although I wouldn't say The Bay is just or even mostly a Western Canadian thing. They have a pretty large footprint in southern and eastern Ontario.

[GreatTallNorth2]

London is getting a full size IKEA.

http://www.lfpress.com/2017/10/11/inconic-big-box-retailer-ikea-opening-its-15th-store-in-canada-in-london-in-2019

[north 42]

That's great news for London! I figured that the city would eventually get a full sized store after hearing they were opening up one in Halifax.

[MichelKazan]

When was the last time the Bay actually opened a new store, though? Obviously not counting their recent foray into the Netherlands.

Actually, they're supposed to open a new store at Carrefour Angrignon in Montréal in Fall 2018 in the former Target location.

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/hudsons-bay-announces-new-location-in-quebec-637059193.html

[q12]

Rick Mercer: IKEA vs The Bay

OMhPpL7UZfs

[sunsetmountainland]

Vancouver retail boom

Retail investment in Vancouver surpassed $2.8 billion in the first half of 2017, eclipsing the previous record of $1.6 billion in all of 2016, says a new report by commercial real estate firm CBRE Canada.

The market is being driven by major international brands setting up shop in the West Coast city and sparking a renaissance in the retail sector.

The report says vacancy rates in downtown Vancouver continue to remain at historically low levels at 2.9 per cent, with mostly consistent rental rates and international brands continuing to drive new demand for retail space.

“Vancouver’s got great traction right now from an international standpoint. We are principally real estate brokers and our phone rings all day long from interested groups but in the last 18 months to two years it’s really transformed into strong international calls,” says Martin Moriarty, associate vice-president of Retail Leasing & Investment at CBRE Vancouver.

“Part of it is Vancouver’s growing reputation in the world. There’s a few things going on here that’s putting Vancouver on the map by way of residential projects, by way of the investment market here. We are also still having some very strong brands emerging for Vancouver.”
The report says five major international brands opened stores in the past year or announced they will be opening soon on Robson Street – Muji from Japan, Bailey Nelson from Australia, Laduree from France, Nike from the U.S. and the Vancouver-based athletic wear designer, Reigning Champ.

Japanese retail giant Muji is expected to open their biggest North American store at 16,000 square feet on Robson later this year.

On Alberni Street, the new high street for prestige brands, sales exceed that of Toronto’s Bloor Street, with rents escalating up to 50 per cent higher than that of Robson Street, says CBRE.
“As such, the demand for space is exceeding supply. A number of new stores are entering the market – including Van Cleef & Arpels, the French jewelry, watch and perfume brand and Hublot, the Swiss luxury watch brand – with more to follow in the remainder of the year,” says the report.
Moriarty says the expansion of international brands into the Vancouver retail market is transforming the city and brands in major centres such as London, Tokyo, Paris, Geneva and Sydney are attracted to Vancouver’s growing international reputation.

Gastown also saw an increase in the presence of international retailers with COS and Filson opening locations in 2017 and a second Bailey Nelson location to open soon.

Vancouver is proving to be a shining example that although the trend in e-commerce sales is growing, many consumers still prefer bricks and mortar for their shopping experience.

“E-commerce is having an effect, but I don’t think the effect is the termination of the existence of bricks and mortar. It’s changing the way the users and the tenants are operating. We have done a lot of deals with tenants that have tried to up their game by way of the ‘experience’ because that really seems to be emerging as a big thing,” says Moriarty.

“A product is very important but the experience is also as important.”
A recent report by Statistics Canada said population growth is driving a rapidly expanding retail market in the Vancouver region with sales increasing from $22.2 billion in 2004 to $36 billion in 2016, a rise of 62 per cent.

At the same time, the Vancouver CMA’s population went from 2.1 million people to 2.6 million, up by 19.4 per cent.

“Moreover, population projections suggest that the Vancouver CMA could see a further 26.4 per cent increase in its population in the next 20 years, which will likely increase the need for planning the location of future shopping centre developments,” says the StatsCan report.

There were 209 shopping centres in 2016 in the Vancouver region and Statistics Canada added there were 9,429 retail stores operating.

https://renx.ca/vancouver-retail-investment-booming-cbre/

[wave46]

Vancouver retail boom



https://renx.ca/vancouver-retail-investment-booming-cbre/

Given Vancouver's changing demographics, I'm not surprised in the least.

[Kitchissippi]

When I look at the Weston family's holdings, from lower end retailing in the Loblaws Group (http://www.loblaw.ca/en.html) to the higher end Selfridges Group (http://www.selfridgesgroup.com), I wonder if they'll ever be tempted to move into the middle to fill the void/provide competition in the department store segment. I bet there is room for innovation and reinvention, I would love to see a bold new concept away from the old legacy stores.

[kwoldtimer]

I realize it won't happen, but Sears' demise makes me wish Marks & Spencer could stage a comeback in Canada.

[manny_santos]

Although I wouldn't say The Bay is just or even mostly a Western Canadian thing. They have a pretty large footprint in southern and eastern Ontario.

Historically it was more of a western Canadian thing, before it took over Simpsons.

[Loco101]

When I look at the Weston family's holdings, from lower end retailing in the Loblaws Group (http://www.loblaw.ca/en.html) to the higher end Selfridges Group (http://www.selfridgesgroup.com), I wonder if they'll ever be tempted to move into the middle to fill the void/provide competition in the department store segment. I bet there is room for innovation and reinvention, I would love to see a bold new concept away from the old legacy stores.

I've always wondered the same thing myself. I could see the Westons attempting to purchase HBC again if the opportunity arises. They actually tried to buy it in 1979 but failed.

Their purchase of Shoppers Drug Mart / Pharmaprix was a bigger deal though as those stores don't really have to worry about competition with online sales and benefit with an aging population.

But back the HBC, if they did own it, they could incorporate parts of HBC products and ideas into their existing stores in places that don't have HBC locations.

[urbandreamer]

Why? HBC will be bankrupt within a decade.

Although I grew up with the Sears Catalogue, I never spent a penny there.

[Acajack]

Historically it was more of a western Canadian thing, before it took over Simpsons.

Wasn't it Sears that took over Simpsons?

[Loco101]

Why? HBC will be bankrupt within a decade.

Although I grew up with the Sears Catalogue, I never spent a penny there.

HBC as a brand name is very popular and historical enough to survive for a very long time. It's a brand name that is known throughout Canada which includes many remote, Inuit, Indigenous, francophone, etc. places. It's one of the most recognizable brands in Canada.

I do agree that their retails stores as they are now may close. But they could have smaller stores and then be in more places. I would like it to be Canadian owned again.

[kwoldtimer]

Wasn't it Sears that took over Simpsons?

I think the old Simpsons-Sears stores were a partnership, not a takeover. The Bay bought Simpsons.

[casper]

HBC as a brand name is very popular and historical enough to survive for a very long time. It's a brand name that is known throughout Canada which includes many remote, Inuit, Indigenous, francophone, etc. places. It's one of the most recognizable brands in Canada.

I do agree that their retails stores as they are now may close. But they could have smaller stores and then be in more places. I would like it to be Canadian owned again.

Today HBC is virtually nonexistent in rural and remote Canada. The Northwest company was spun off several years ago and today it and coop are the major retailers in rural and northern Western Canada. The Northwest company also owns the Giant Tiger franchise on Western Canada. Slightly smaller is Fields. Fields is again a spinoff from HBC.

I think the HBC brand today is very urban.

[SpongeG]

what a great store

LxbqluIUjs0

[Loco101]

Today HBC is virtually nonexistent in rural and remote Canada. The Northwest company was spun off several years ago and today it and coop are the major retailers in rural and northern Western Canada. The Northwest company also owns the Giant Tiger franchise on Western Canada. Slightly smaller is Fields. Fields is again a spinoff from HBC.

I think the HBC brand today is very urban.

I do agree that it is an urban brand today. The company has so much history and operated in so many remote and rural places in the past with trading posts, general stores, etc...

The Northwest Company with their Northern stores is hated by many of the people who live in the far-North of Ontario. Famous for high prices and gouging.

Fields stores existed in quite a few Northern Ontario towns until about 5-7 year ago as they had all been closed.

[casper]

I do agree that it is an urban brand today. The company has so much history and operated in so many remote and rural places in the past with trading posts, general stores, etc...

The Northwest Company with their Northern stores is hated by many of the people who live in the far-North of Ontario. Famous for high prices and gouging.

Fields stores existed in quite a few Northern Ontario towns until about 5-7 year ago as they had all been closed.

Fields is still very active in Western Canada. I believe head-office is somewhere in the Langley or Fraser Valley area.

Not certain the Northwest Company deserves the reputation they have. Perhaps they do. Did just buy a northern airline to try to get a better handle on the logistics costs. In Western Canada they also have the Giant Tiger franchise. They are a little different than the eastern Canadian ones, but still a deep discounter.

The Co-op movement has always been much stronger in the West including in rural and northern locations. Never understood why that did not take root in northern Ontario. You would expect similar buying patters and values.

[SpongeG]

giant tiger has fancy commercials now

O6tuKjxh7Eo

65mFmyJUQjA

[GeneralLeeTPHLS]

I was at the Erin Mills Sears location (northwest Mississauga) today.....it was a frantic scene that reminded me of Black Friday or Monday or what have you. Clothes and shoes strewn about the place and long lines (taking about 30 mins). The deals are between 10 to 30 percent off (mostly 20%) and I just got one piece of clothing........sad to see Sears close up in the Canadian retail market though I understand why.

[Innsertnamehere]

HBC has a few properties that they have actually spent money on and feel like a truly positive shopping experience, one "worthy" of the brand, but also have a plethora of crappy stores that are exactly like sears. The perfect comparison is between Toronto's Queen Street and Bloor Street stores.. Queen is part of the Eaton centre, is newly renovated in a historic building, and features solid brands in pleasant retail environments. Bloor is in a concrete 1970's bunker, has tiny ceiling heights, and is just generally depressing. Its prime reno potential right on the Yorkville strip, it just needs the money.

A lot of the suburban Hudsons Bays need to be shuttered or gutted.

[craneSpotter]

Why? HBC will be bankrupt within a decade.

Although I grew up with the Sears Catalogue, I never spent a penny there.

I doubt HBC will last much longer - they appear to be losing money at a pretty rapid rate - senior executives are resigning. HBC bought German retailer Kaufhof in 2015 for 2.8 billion euros, and have not been able to turn the struggling retailer around - a bad move.

Over that past 6 months (ended July 29 2017) HBC has an operating loss of over $420 million, which is worse than the loss of just over 200 million during the comparable period in 2016.

[SpongeG]

thats an interesting problem. You mention the bay to most people and they say what a crappy store with boring brands yada yada yada.

Yet if one can go to the downtown Vancouver store or the toronto eaton centre store you can mention how amazing they are. The downtown vancouver store is truly awesome, great brands, great looking, even pretty decent service. I can't speak to the eaton centre toronto store but from what i hear its great too.

So they are going to screw this whole thing up by dragging their feet. they need to shutter or get renovating stores asap, at least one store in every major city to get customers back and excited. I've been to their "flagship" in edmonton at southgate and its awful. The richmond store was renovated and its one of the nicer ones after the downtown one, and way nicer than most other locations, so they know what they are doing as far as renovating and getting some good things going in their stores but they aren\t doing anything. I really hate to see them screw it up.

[casper]

thats an interesting problem. You mention the bay to most people and they say what a crappy store with boring brands yada yada yada.

Yet if one can go to the downtown Vancouver store or the toronto eaton centre store you can mention how amazing they are. The downtown vancouver store is truly awesome, great brands, great looking, even pretty decent service. I can't speak to the eaton centre toronto store but from what i hear its great too.

So they are going to screw this whole thing up by dragging their feet. they need to shutter or get renovating stores asap, at least one store in every major city to get customers back and excited. I've been to their "flagship" in edmonton at southgate and its awful. The richmond store was renovated and its one of the nicer ones after the downtown one, and way nicer than most other locations, so they know what they are doing as far as renovating and getting some good things going in their stores but they aren\t doing anything. I really hate to see them screw it up.

I think they still own the Zellers brand. Perhaps its time to use the Hudson Bay brand for the flagship stores. The smaller or more suburban stores that do not justify the remodel can be flipped over to that Brand. The Lougheed mall Bay is a weird place to go into. Half the store feels like a winners more than anything else.

[begratto]

thats an interesting problem. You mention the bay to most people and they say what a crappy store with boring brands yada yada yada.

Yet if one can go to the downtown Vancouver store or the toronto eaton centre store you can mention how amazing they are. The downtown vancouver store is truly awesome, great brands, great looking, even pretty decent service. I can't speak to the eaton centre toronto store but from what i hear its great too.

So they are going to screw this whole thing up by dragging their feet. they need to shutter or get renovating stores asap, at least one store in every major city to get customers back and excited. I've been to their "flagship" in edmonton at southgate and its awful. The richmond store was renovated and its one of the nicer ones after the downtown one, and way nicer than most other locations, so they know what they are doing as far as renovating and getting some good things going in their stores but they aren\t doing anything. I really hate to see them screw it up.

It would probably helped if HBC branded its renovated stores differently from the crappy ones. Similar to what IGA and Metro do in Quebec (maybe elsewhere too?) : IGA has IGA extra stores and Metro has Metro plus that they use for their better looking, better stocked grocery stores. If you go to one of those you know the service will be better too.

To differenciate their stores, I could imagine HBC using the "Hudson's Bay company" brand for their renovated, better looking stores and simply HBC for the other ones, for example.

[wave46]

I think they still own the Zellers brand. Perhaps its time to use the Hudson Bay brand for the flagship stores. The smaller or more suburban stores that do not justify the remodel can be flipped over to that Brand. The Lougheed mall Bay is a weird place to go into. Half the store feels like a winners more than anything else.

I don't think Zellers is coming back. People are more nostalgic for Target than they are for Zellers.

I don't think the retail apocalypse is over yet.

[WhipperSnapper]

The old Zellers isn't coming back. They could move forward and expand on the new Zellers which is The Bay's liquidation store that could be improved into a Winners

[casper]

The old Zellers isn't coming back. They could move forward and expand on the new Zellers which is The Bay's liquidation store that could be improved into a Winners

Not certain about all the suburban Bay stores. The Lougheed Mall one is suburban Vancouver feels more like a Winners store that anything else.

[SpongeG]

The Lougheed Bay is going to close soon so its kinda in limbo now. I wonder if they have made a deal with shape to do something in Brentwood.

The metrotown store is pretty crappy too. It needs a good reno.

------------

I read an article today actually just before the one about the bay stores that they made a deal with wework in new york as well and will do the same with the lord & taylor store, they will only use the 3 lower floors leasing out the top floors to Wework, reducing the store from 650,000 to 150,000 sq ft.

I think smaller upscale stores is their future, everything is going low end or high end now, trying to be everything as they are now just isn't going to work.

[osmo]

HBC x WeWork actually looks to be a good fit. HBC gets cold hard cash for some of its assets and bubbly WeWork has no shortage of money right now. Lord and Taylor NYC was apparently one of the more expensive per/sqft locations in the city and bubbly WeWoek had no issues buying in. We will now see the same for other well located HBC properties where they can offload much of the top floors with locking in a captive customer base on site to come shop at their stores.

I think HBC will be fine, tbey have been bleeding money but long term the top end for retail will always be around. They are the only department store chain I see being around when I turn 50 here in Canada aside from Holt's and Simons (they all end up merging one day).

[MolsonExport]

fucking assholes at Sears.

Sears demise is Nortel all over again for pensioners, says expert
(http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/sears-pensioners-nortel-lessons-1.4352422)

Sears Employees contribute to their pension plan over many years, and they might not get anything? How the fuck is this possible? Oh, but there is bonus money for executives:

Sears Canada employees angered by bonus plan for key executives (https://www.thestar.com/business/2017/10/18/sears-canada-extended-warranties-run-out-wednesday.html)

Assholes.

[wave46]

fucking assholes at Sears.

Sears demise is Nortel all over again for pensioners, says expert
(http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/sears-pensioners-nortel-lessons-1.4352422)

Sears Employees contribute to their pension plan over many years, and they might not get anything? How the fuck is this possible? Oh, but there is bonus money for executives:

Sears Canada employees angered by bonus plan for key executives (https://www.thestar.com/business/2017/10/18/sears-canada-extended-warranties-run-out-wednesday.html)

Assholes.

Maybe I don't understand the legalities of the Sears Pension Plan, but the plan should be independent of the corporation, so the employees should get something, right?

It usually happens that these things get underfunded as the company loses money and tries to conserve capital. I'm not sure how that particular plan works - usually the employer contributes a matching percentage of the employee's share, right? I'm not sure that measures (outside of bankruptcy) that allow a company to defer contributions are a good idea.

[casper]

Maybe I don't understand the legalities of the Sears Pension Plan, but the plan should be independent of the corporation, so the employees should get something, right?

It usually happens that these things get underfunded as the company loses money and tries to conserve capital. I'm not sure how that particular plan works - usually the employer contributes a matching percentage of the employee's share, right? I'm not sure that measures (outside of bankruptcy) that allow a company to defer contributions are a good idea.

What you are seeing the difference between defined contribution and defined benefit plans.

Today most private sector employers do defined contribution, both the company and employee put money in, it is managed at arms length and what the pensioner gets out the other end is a function of how well the plan is managed.

In the old days, defined benefits plans were used where the employee and employer put money in. However the employer guarantees a certain payout. When the stock market is doing well and the plan has more money that it needs to cover the payouts the employer does not have to put in as much, in bad times they need to put in more. It is not unusual (as is the case with Sears) for pensioners to be able to piggy back on the same group health plans that the active employees have (or an associated plan). When the company disappears so does the group health plan and there is no one to guarantee a certain payout.

The problem with defined benefits plans is the company has this massive liability that can develop over time. That is the reason very few "modern" company do this and the older companies that have been doing are trying to get out. Air Canada is a good example of what is happening these days older employees are on a defined benefits plan and new hires on a defined contribution plan. Government jobs are the only real way to get into a defined benefits plan these days.

[whatnext]

This was noted in the Vancouver forum, but surprisingly not here. If you wanted to mark a point in time that Hudson Bay Co. started to circle the drain, this is it:

Hudson's Bay Co. has put its flagship store in downtown Vancouver on the auction block, a move that could fetch as much as $900-million and help appease anxious investors.

Toronto-based HBC, which runs its namesake, Saks Fifth Avenue and Lord & Taylor chains among others, has hired real estate advisers CBRE and Brookfield Financial Corp. to find a buyer for its Hudson's Bay store in downtown Vancouver to try to cash in on a hot commercial property market, industry sources say...

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/hbc-invites-bids-for-vancouver-flagship-store-amid-investor-anxiety/article36753518/

[ue]

This was noted in the Vancouver forum, but surprisingly not here. If you wanted to mark a point in time that Hudson Bay Co. started to circle the drain, this is it:

Hudson's Bay Co. has put its flagship store in downtown Vancouver on the auction block, a move that could fetch as much as $900-million and help appease anxious investors.

Toronto-based HBC, which runs its namesake, Saks Fifth Avenue and Lord & Taylor chains among others, has hired real estate advisers CBRE and Brookfield Financial Corp. to find a buyer for its Hudson's Bay store in downtown Vancouver to try to cash in on a hot commercial property market, industry sources say...

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/hbc-invites-bids-for-vancouver-flagship-store-amid-investor-anxiety/article36753518/

Holy shit...

[WhipperSnapper]

Selling their flagship properties and leasing back the space is a smart move whether it's out of desperation (i.e. circling the drain) or not.

[whatnext]

Selling their flagship properties and leasing back the space is a smart move whether it's out of desperation (i.e. circling the drain) or not.

Just like it was a smart move for Eatons to do it, and Woodwards before then? It always marks the start of a death spiral.

It says something about Vancouver's whacked land prices that this store is valued at close to a billion dollars.

[MonctonRad]

Just like it was a smart move for Eatons to do it, and Woodwards before then? It always marks the start of a death spiral.

It says something about Vancouver's whacked land prices that this store is valued at close to a billion dollars.

It depends on where the $900M goes. If it's used to pay off debt or reinvest in other properties then that's OK. If it's used as a quickee dividend for the investors then HBC is fucked.......

[WhipperSnapper]

Just like it was a smart move for Eatons to do it, and Woodwards before then? It always marks the start of a death spiral.

It says something about Vancouver's whacked land prices that this store is valued at close to a billion dollars.

They will also have to reinvest smartly in their stores and branding which Eatons didn't do. Changing the store colours to "Aubergine"? LOL. I can cherrypick too. I can gives a long list of retail operations that divested of their real estate holdings and continue to go strong. I can also give you names of defunct businesses that took their retail holdings down with the ship.

The $650 million they got for the Toronto flagship years ago helped to pay down the cost of the renovations that, on the surface, look like it's working well for them. It's busy. They also saved hundreds of millions not having to pay to reskin the deteriorated, precast office tower. Real estate is not their core business.

[LeftCoaster]

Real estate is not their core business.

Exactly. With cap rates the way they are there is no better time to divest this asset and they are being rewarded by waiting.

[whatnext]

They will also have to reinvest smartly in their stores and branding which Eatons didn't do. Changing the store colours to "Aubergine"? LOL. I can cherrypick too. I can gives a long list of retail operations that divested of their real estate holdings and continue to go strong. I can also give you names of defunct businesses that took their retail holdings down with the ship.

The $650 million they got for the Toronto flagship years ago helped to pay down the cost of the renovations that, on the surface, look like it's working well for them. It's busy. They also saved hundreds of millions not having to pay to reskin the deteriorated, precast office tower. Real estate is not their core business.

The Bay just redid their downtown Vancouver store, so you're celebrating the fact they can blow that kind of money again renovating a smaller store.

[240glt]

While I'd normally agree that businesses divesting from real estate holdings to focus on core business is neither abnormal nor an indicator of that businesses strength, in HBC's case I do think it's only a matter of time before it suffers the same fate as the many other department stores that have failed over the years. HBC just seems to be holding on a little longer

[MolsonExport]

This was noted in the Vancouver forum, but surprisingly not here. If you wanted to mark a point in time that Hudson Bay Co. started to circle the drain, this is it:

Hudson's Bay Co. has put its flagship store in downtown Vancouver on the auction block, a move that could fetch as much as $900-million and help appease anxious investors.

Toronto-based HBC, which runs its namesake, Saks Fifth Avenue and Lord & Taylor chains among others, has hired real estate advisers CBRE and Brookfield Financial Corp. to find a buyer for its Hudson's Bay store in downtown Vancouver to try to cash in on a hot commercial property market, industry sources say...

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/hbc-invites-bids-for-vancouver-flagship-store-amid-investor-anxiety/article36753518/

yeah this is not a positive development. Not HBC. The last man standing. And one of the few places that have a half-decent selection on mid-range apparel for men. Mind you, outside of the big urban flagship stores in Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver (and I suppose a few other big cities, but I cannot comment for lack of experience), the selection at the typical suburban mall locations is...really limited.

[ue]

^ I've heard the St-Catherine flagship isn't on the same par as the Granville and Queen flagships, though I've only walked past the St-Catherine store myself.

If HBC could become more "Simons-sized" in footprint, focusing on key locations in urban locales, and ensuring their stores are of the same high calibre (seriously, even with renos, the Bay stores in Edmonton are mostly shit), they'd probably be able to survive.

[SpongeG]

the west vancouver store compared to the downtown store is crap, as is metrotown, guildford, oakridge etc. They need to up the brands in the suburban stores and renovate them to a better standard.

[Proof Sheet]

yeah this is not a positive development. Not HBC. The last man standing. And one of the few places that have a half-decent selection on mid-range apparel for men. Mind you, outside of the big urban flagship stores in Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver (and I suppose a few other big cities, but I cannot comment for lack of experience), the selection at the typical suburban mall locations is...really limited.

Makes you look back wistfully to the golden age of retail before the crisis

https://www.malls.com/upload/resize_cache/iblock/f63/624_301_18770f3828b088159f747f14acd6eb0b3/f63f4f41ecec044ddb3e86a39510a0f4.jpg

[MolsonExport]

dammit, the Bari Shopping Mall crisis...all over again!

:D

[Loco101]

HBC stores really need a more stable and realistic owner and operator. At this point, the only ones I can really see to do it are the Westons or Canadian Tire Corp.

[craneSpotter]

...HBC bought German retailer Kaufhof in 2015 for 2.8 billion euros, and have not been able to turn the struggling retailer around - a bad move.

Over that past 6 months (ended July 29 2017) HBC has an operating loss of over $420 million, which is worse than the loss of just over 200 million during the comparable period in 2016.

Whew, looks like HBC might have an opportunity to unload its underperforming European store - Kaufhof. Unsolicited bid no less, maybe the buzzards circling??

http://business.financialpost.com/news/retail-marketing/hbc-mulls-reported-3-billion-euro-offer-for-lagging-european-business

[Martin Mtl]

HOLT RENFREW OGILVY : opening in 2020.

http://images.lpcdn.ca/924x615/201711/16/1490483-nouveau-holt-renfrew-ogilvy-ete.jpg

The opening of the new Holt Renfrew Ogilvy mega luxury store in downtown Montreal is now set for 2020. The new store will cost 100 m. and will be 248 000 sf. (the current Ogilvy store is 160 000 sf - for comparison: Saks Fifth Ave in downtown Toronto is 170 000 sf, Saks at Sherway Gardens is 144 000 sf, Saks in downtown Calgary is 115 000, while Holt Renfrew on Bloor in Toronto is 170 000 sf).

The new complex in Montreal will include individual boutiques for Chanel, Dior, Fendi, Hermès, Louis Vuitton, Prada and Tiffany & Co. It will have a direct access to the new Four Seasons Hotel.

No news yet on what will happen with the Art Deco Holt Renfrew location on Sherbrooke street West, which will close when the new location opens.

Complete article (in french). (http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economie/commerce-de-detail/201711/16/01-5143749-fusion-dogilvy-et-de-holt-renfrew-pas-avant-2020.php)

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

You missed the other (more recent) retail thread just at the bottom of the page. Maybe this should be merged.......

[Martin Mtl]

:previous:

You missed the other (more recent) retail thread just at the bottom of the page. Maybe this should be merged.......

I just did a search with the word retail in the canadian section, and that's the thread that came up first. Yeah, they should be merged I guess.

[Me&You]

HOLT RENFREW OGILVY : opening in 2020.

http://images.lpcdn.ca/924x615/201711/16/1490483-nouveau-holt-renfrew-ogilvy-ete.jpg

The opening of the new Holt Renfrew Ogilvy mega luxury store in downtown Montreal is now set for 2020. The new store will cost 100 m. and will be 248 000 sf. (the current Ogilvy store is 160 000 sf - for comparison: Saks Fifth Ave in downtown Toronto is 170 000 sf, Saks at Sherway Gardens is 144 000 sf, Saks in downtown Calgary is 115 000, while Holt Renfrew on Bloor in Toronto is 170 000 sf).

The new complex in Montreal will include individual boutiques for Chanel, Dior, Fendi, Hermès, Louis Vuitton, Prada and Tiffany & Co. It will have a direct access to the new Four Seasons Hotel.

No news yet on what will happen with the Art Deco Holt Renfrew location on Sherbrooke street West, which will close when the new location opens.

Complete article (in french). (http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economie/commerce-de-detail/201711/16/01-5143749-fusion-dogilvy-et-de-holt-renfrew-pas-avant-2020.php)

Hmmm, some of those store comparisons seem off.

Firstly, there's no Saks in dt Calgary; did they mean Holts?
Has the dt Toronto Saks moved or expanded recently? When I was there in the summer, it seemed like a temporary location within The Bay. One minute you're in The Bay, then Saks, then you turn a corner and you're in The Bay again. I was in a rush with my three year old in tow, but it definitely didn't seem like a dedicated store, and certainly not 170k sf :shrug:

Either way, the new store in Montreal sounds very nice! :cheers:

[Martin Mtl]

Hmmm, some of those store comparisons seem off.

Firstly, there's no Saks in dt Calgary; did they mean Holts?
Has the dt Toronto Saks moved or expanded recently? When I was there in the summer, it seemed like a temporary location within The Bay. One minute you're in The Bay, then Saks, then you turn a corner and you're in The Bay again. I was in a rush with my three year old in tow, but it definitely didn't seem like a dedicated store, and certainly not 170k sf :shrug:

Either way, the new store in Montreal sounds very nice! :cheers:

The Saks in Calgary in the Chinook center. But the square footage is right though. The Saks in downtown Toronto is a dedicated store and it is 170 000 sf.


https://www.retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2017/10/saks-calgary

[Me&You]

The Saks in Calgary in the Chinook center. But the square footage is right though. The Saks in downtown Toronto is a dedicated store and it is 170 000 sf.


https://www.retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2017/10/saks-calgary

Thanks for the link... when the article said "Saks" and "in downtown Calgary", I wasn't sure, especially since the article was in reference to a new Holts store.

[Martin Mtl]

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/yconr1ZoID6NyvLPGSB0VgI3v0Q=/1800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9696169/unnamed.jpg
source (https://miami.curbed.com/2017/11/16/16666886/miami-beach-lincoln-road-expensive-retail-location)

[MolsonExport]

Loblaw admits to bread price-fixing scheme spanning more than 14 years (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/loblaw-parent-company-alerted-competition-watchdog-to-bread-price-fixing/article37387816/?utm_source=Shared+Article+Sent+to+User&utm_medium=E-mail:+Newsletters+/+E-Blasts+/+etc.&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links)

Grocery giant Loblaw Cos. Ltd. has admitted to participating in a scheme to increase packaged bread prices for more than 14 years, saying it will co-operate with a Competition Bureau investigation into the industry.

...

"This sort of behaviour is wrong and has no place in our business or Canada's grocery industry," Galen G. Weston, chairman and chief executive office of both Loblaw and George Weston, said in a statement late on Tuesday.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d7/Galen_G._Weston_%28also_known_as_Galen_Weston_Jr.%29.jpg/1200px-Galen_G._Weston_%28also_known_as_Galen_Weston_Jr.%29.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/NYY7cDE.jpg
wikipedia, imgur

[kwoldtimer]

I've already registered to apply for my $25 rebate. I urge all to do so.

[casper]

I've already registered to apply for my $25 rebate. I urge all to do so.

Yes. Loblaws must be punished. :lynchmob:

Register at: https://loblawcard.ca/ for your $25.

Here is another article on the topic:
http://www.canadiangrocer.com/top-stories/headlines/loblaw-george-weston-admit-to-bread-price-fixing-77745?utm_source=EmailMarketing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter

[MolsonExport]

done!

[Proof Sheet]

Yes. Loblaws must be punished. :lynchmob:

Register at: https://loblawcard.ca/ for your $25.

Here is another article on the topic:
http://www.canadiangrocer.com/top-stories/headlines/loblaw-george-weston-admit-to-bread-price-fixing-77745?utm_source=EmailMarketing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter

Any limits to the # of email addresses you can register this from:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[esquire]

When I checked it said registration doesn't start until January... are you guys seeing something different? :???:

Gimme my money Galen! :lynchmob:

[Taeolas]

Right, you are not registering for your giftcard yet. You're giving your email to them to notify you when registration opens up. (So you're giving them your email for their mailing lists until the sun expires).

I assume when registration actually opens, they'll have more checks in place to reduce multiple claims.

[MonctonRad]

I shop at Sobeys, can I apply too???? :)

[MolsonExport]

I really dislike Galen. He comes across as a kindly person, and he is as physically imposing as Stephane Dion (i.e., not at all), but make no mistake, he is a rapacious corporate stooge that would gladly sell his own grandmother to make a buck.

Somebody on this thread once described a store where Galen was filming a BlobLaws commercial, and a few days later, the employees received notice that the store was to be shuttered.

[MolsonExport]

Metro, Sobeys say they didn't violate Competition Act as bread price-fixing story unfolds
(http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bread-price-fixing-1.4457991)

[MolsonExport]

Penalties for price-fixing include fines up to $25 million, imprisonment to a maximum term of fourteen years, or both. Courts also can impose orders to prevent the parties to a conspiracy from continuing or repeating the offence.

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/eng/h_00112.html

https://torontoist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/GalenWestonJr.jpg
torontoist

[MolsonExport]

I love this witty comment:


As usual it's one law for the upper crust, with lots of dough, and another for the rest of us.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bread-price-fixing-1.4457991

[mistercorporate]

Hmmm, some of those store comparisons seem off.

Firstly, there's no Saks in dt Calgary; did they mean Holts?
Has the dt Toronto Saks moved or expanded recently? When I was there in the summer, it seemed like a temporary location within The Bay. One minute you're in The Bay, then Saks, then you turn a corner and you're in The Bay again. I was in a rush with my three year old in tow, but it definitely didn't seem like a dedicated store, and certainly not 170k sf :shrug:

Either way, the new store in Montreal sounds very nice! :cheers:

The Toronto store has matured now and filled up all it's space, but who the f%$k in Toronto is buying those $4000 jackets??

[Proof Sheet]

The Toronto store has matured now and filled up all it's space, but who the f%$k in Toronto is buying those $4000 jackets??

You'd be surprised how many delusional, label obsessed, more money than sense people there are out there. How else would cupcake shops, flavoured olive oil, build a bear stores ever have been a thing.

[kwoldtimer]

I shop at Sobeys, can I apply too???? :)

Give it time ...

[Loco101]

Parody of Galen Weston on 22 Minutes from a number of years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nQYzu63f4M

[SpongeG]

you can get a $25 gift card or rebate or something from loblaws if you purchased bread at one of their stores prior to march 2015, all you have to do is register and fill out an online form, i believe it starts jan 8. I will try find the link again.

[casper]

you can get a $25 gift card or rebate or something from loblaws if you purchased bread at one of their stores prior to march 2015, all you have to do is register and fill out an online form, i believe it starts jan 8. I will try find the link again.

Here is the link: https://loblawcard.ca/

Basically collusion with the other big national bakeries and retails to price fix. Since price fixing is not legal, Loblaws must be punished, and giving out $25 gift certificates is a good start at a punishment.

[kwoldtimer]

Here is the link: https://loblawcard.ca/

Basically collusion with the other big national bakeries and retails to price fix. Since price fixing is not legal, Loblaws must be punished, and giving out $25 gift certificates is a good start at a punishment.

Since they've been granted immunity from prosecution, it would be more the whole enchilada than a "good start".

[MolsonExport]

w-FFndopbY0
Galen Weston Jr. may be the world's biggest dweeb. What a pencil neck.

The person with the most pencil neck in the entire world is undoubtedly bashar assad.

[casper]

Since they've been granted immunity from prosecution, it would be more the whole enchilada than a "good start".

In the age of social media, corporations fear public outcry almost as much if not more than prosecution. There reputation will be run through the mud, now when the free give away starts. It will be run through again when the site opens for registration. Then again when it is getting near to close. Then again after it closes and people who procrastinated are outraged they did not get their $25 gift card. Because it is $25, it will get shared around on facebook.

After it all settles CBC Marketplace will likely do a 30 minute piece on them. Excepts of it will be put into various news programs.

They will spend more time trying to restore their good name after it is all done than any fine.

[caltrane74]

Samsung Store - Yonge Dundas

Looking quite ordinary

phttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MIrCOB88e1c/WjwqlcvyfkI/AAAAAAAAYpE/-87cRQfwcrMFEBWPUdvoc5-i_W5xL666wCHMYCw/s1600/IMG_20171221_163712.jpg

[kwoldtimer]

Merchandise bursting into flames should make it much more lively....

[manny_santos]

Samsung Store - Yonge Dundas

Looking quite ordinary

phttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MIrCOB88e1c/WjwqlcvyfkI/AAAAAAAAYpE/-87cRQfwcrMFEBWPUdvoc5-i_W5xL666wCHMYCw/s1600/IMG_20171221_163712.jpg

The Eaton Centre also has a Microsoft Store. I've never looked inside but I'm curious what exactly they could sell other than Windows Phones, as all their software (Windows, Office, etc) is sold and distributed online now. I'm guessing they mostly do tech support. The inside of the store was very small compared to the Apple Store nearby.

[urbandreamer]

The Eaton Centre also has a Microsoft Store. I've never looked inside but I'm curious what exactly they could sell other than Windows Phones, as all their software (Windows, Office, etc) is sold and distributed online now. I'm guessing they mostly do tech support. The inside of the store was very small compared to the Apple Store nearby.

I bought my Razer Phone at the MS store. I compared it to the iphone 8 plus, Note 8 and Asus Zenfone 4 and decided after listening to the fantastic audio quality the Razer made the most sense. It's so good I rarely use headphones anymore at home.:)

[TownGuy]

Likely sell Xbox stuff also. Never been in the place though.

[SpongeG]

they sell xbox stuff, games, curved screens, etc, the ones here are always really busy

[Loco101]

I wrote this in the "Dead Malls of Canada" thread but thought it should be posted here.

Wow didn't realize that Hart has a new logo. I've been to Hart stores in Kapuskasing, Kirkland Lake, Sudbury and some in Quebec. (Rouyn-Noranda, La Sarre, Amos, etc.) There are many locations in Quebec.

That is a chain of stores that could potentially grow much more. I've noticed now that there are a number of locations in Southern Ontario as well as a few in New Brunswick. Hart could become the next Zellers/Target but with few departments.

Another similar chain which is also Quebec-based is Rossy. There is only one location in Ontario (Greater Sudbury) but many in Quebec and the Atlantic provinces.

I also put Giant Tiger (based in Ottawa) into the same category as Hart and Rossy although I'd say that GT has become very boring compared to the two others and could be in trouble in the near future. Rossy and Hart tend to focus more on style and trends rather than simply being a discount store.

I wouldn't at all be surprised to see a merger between any of the three store chains I mentioned above.

[casper]

I wrote this in the "Dead Malls of Canada" thread but thought it should be posted here.

Wow didn't realize that Hart has a new logo. I've been to Hart stores in Kapuskasing, Kirkland Lake, Sudbury and some in Quebec. (Rouyn-Noranda, La Sarre, Amos, etc.) There are many locations in Quebec.

That is a chain of stores that could potentially grow much more. I've noticed now that there are a number of locations in Southern Ontario as well as a few in New Brunswick. Hart could become the next Zellers/Target but with few departments.

Another similar chain which is also Quebec-based is Rossy. There is only one location in Ontario (Greater Sudbury) but many in Quebec and the Atlantic provinces.

I also put Giant Tiger (based in Ottawa) into the same category as Hart and Rossy although I'd say that GT has become very boring compared to the two others and could be in trouble in the near future. Rossy and Hart tend to focus more on style and trends rather than simply being a discount store.

I wouldn't at all be surprised to see a merger between any of the three store chains I mentioned above.

Not certain I have ever been in a Rossy or Hart.

In the case of Giant Tiger, the North West Company has the franchise for all the stores in Western Canada. Not certain how that would play out in a merger in the North West Company could easily just operate under one of its other banners.

The main counterpart to Giant Tiger out here would be Field's.

[Loco101]

Not certain I have ever been in a Rossy or Hart.

In the case of Giant Tiger, the North West Company has the franchise for all the stores in Western Canada. Not certain how that would play out in a merger in the North West Company could easily just operate under one of its other banners.

The main counterpart to Giant Tiger out here would be Field's.

There were a number of Fields stores in towns (not cities) in Northern Ontario but it seems as though all of them closed about 5 years ago. Fields was owned by Hudson's Bay and was more or less a much smaller version of Zellers. I don't think many of those stores were around for very long to begin with.

[casper]

There were a number of Fields stores in towns (not cities) in Northern Ontario but it seems as though all of them closed about 5 years ago. Fields was owned by Hudson's Bay and was more or less a much smaller version of Zellers. I don't think many of those stores were around for very long to begin with.

It was a Vancouver based company from the 1940s. Went public in 1968, then they purchased Zellers and were eventually taken over by HBC.

Growing up in Vancouver in the 1970/80/90s there quite a few around the city. They competed and were very similar to Woolworth in size, format and product. Back then there were a number of Willworth stores.

In 2012 they were sold off from HBC. Today I think they are only West of the Manitoba/Ontario boarder but I could be wrong. I only know of them being in small town Saskatchewan and BC. I believe it is similar in Alberta and Manitoba.

http://www.fields.ca/about.php

[SaskScraper]

Saskatchewan SSP forumers have given up posting in the national threads these days but I thought I'd post this anyways from the Sask retail thread from a couple months ago...

Looks like Midtown Plaza Redevelopment Plan downtown calls for new office towers, a 50 storey Hotel/Condominium,
...and a new Arts/Convention centre opposite the Plaza from the current TCU Place Auditorium/Convention centre.


In line with the City of Saskatoon’s development plan, the vision for Midtown Plaza is to revitalize the downtown core by offering an elevated retail and dining experience.

A new state-of-the-art convention/performing arts centre combined with a high-rise condominium/hotel tower adjacent to the centre will accommodate the projected growing demographic and anticipated increase in tourist traffic.

A new network of landscaped pedestrian and cycling paths will introduce a neighbourhood dimension to the area.

A portion of the shopping centre with frontage on 1st Avenue will be transformed into a 2-storey shopping and dining destination. The existing major anchor space of a 2-level department store will be divided amongst multiple tenants. The entire shopping centre will undergo a major refurbishment including an urban contemporary food court overlooking a new exterior plaza.

http://www.cwcanadaassetservices.com/development/midtown-plaza-redevelopment/

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4601/39546938521_4527da504a_o.png