Canadian Retail Thread

[kwoldtimer]

And so does South Africa. Woolworth's or "Woolies" stores are such a delight to shop in. Clean and fresh looking; great customer service; well stocked; and the grocery and wine section are awesome.

The Zellers initiative would be great if it were intended to create a retail experience comparable to Woolworths in SAfrica or even M&S in the UK. Not in the cards, sadly.

[niwell]

Only downside with Woolies SA is how expensive it can be, particularly for food. I did a fair bit of shopping there since an urban format one was within walking distance of us but damn it really struck home the inequalities of that country. Great product and shopping experience though, ranging from the big department stores to the smaller urban format ones. We don't really have anything comparable.

[Wigs]

Only downside with Woolies SA is how expensive it can be, particularly for food. I did a fair bit of shopping there since an urban format one was within walking distance of us but damn it really struck home the inequalities of that country. Great product and shopping experience though, ranging from the big department stores to the smaller urban format ones. We don't really have anything comparable.

The walled residential compounds and prison like security for wealthy weren't enough? :frog:

[kwoldtimer]

Only downside with Woolies SA is how expensive it can be, particularly for food. I did a fair bit of shopping there since an urban format one was within walking distance of us but damn it really struck home the inequalities of that country. Great product and shopping experience though, ranging from the big department stores to the smaller urban format ones. We don't really have anything comparable.

Spatchcock chicken for all!

[cslusarc]

The next Zellers within Hudson's Bay locations to open on Tuesday, April 4th will be:

British Columbia
7 Oaks Shopping Centre (Abbotsford)
Aberdeen Mall (Kamloops)
Guildford Town Centre (Surrey)
Vancouver Downtown

Saskatchewan
Midtown Plaza (Saskatoon)

Manitoba
St. Vital Centre (Winnipeg)

Nova Scotia
Mayflower Shopping Mall (Sydney)
Micmac Mall (Dartmouth)

Quebec
Carrefour de l'Estrie (Sherbrooke)
Galeries d'Anjou (Ville d'Anjou)
Les Galeries de la Capital (Quebec City)
Les Promenades Gatineau (Gatineau)


Note:
**Place Rosemère (Rosemère) will open April 27

[le calmar]

^ Ville d’Anjou? I haven’t heard that in about 20 years.

[Acajack]

^ Ville d’Anjou? I haven’t heard that in about 20 years.

Oh yeah, I still say it on occasion. I also still say "Ville St-Laurent".

When I was a kid they sometimes used to say stuff like "ils habitent à Ville de Laval" but that has died out.

Quebec City also had "Ville Vanier".

[le calmar]

Oh yeah, I still say it on occasion. I also still say "Ville St-Laurent".

When I was a kid they sometimes used to say stuff like "ils habitent à Ville de Laval" but that has died out.

Quebec City also had "Ville Vanier".

You’re right about “Ville St-Laurent”. I just realized I still say that. But I definitely don’t say “Ville d’Anjou” and haven’t heard it in a very long time.

[Acajack]

You’re right about “Ville St-Laurent”. I just realized I still say that. But I definitely don’t say “Ville d’Anjou” and haven’t heard it in a very long time.

My Lebanese friends and neighbours call it "Ville Saint-Liban".

[harls]

I am unexcited for any Zellers store launching. All they had going for them was Zeddy. Now I am older and bear mascots can go to hell.

(edit - and the hotbox glass smoking cafeterias)

[esquire]

HBC is throwing everything at the wall at this point, hoping something will stick. They probably think it makes them look current and trendy, when in reality it reeks of desperation.

[harls]

HBC is throwing everything at the wall at this point, hoping something will stick. They probably think it makes them look current and trendy, when in reality it reeks of desperation.

There are a couple of locations open next to me and I have no desire to drag my family to a mall and subject them to a Zellers kiosk in a Bay store, especially when Giant Tiger is closer and provides the same experience.

[thewave46]

I am unexcited for any Zellers store launching.

Zellers is like That '90s Show. An initial 'Oh, they're digging up that corpse', followed by an 'Ugh, that corpse should have stayed buried.'

A laugh track. Red Foreman called someone a dumbass. Yuk-yuk-yuk. How edgy. Sure makes up for the lack of laughs and has that vintage feel. Characters that have remained in a bubble since...well....the '70s. Trades on nostalgia almost exclusively.

Zellers! Remember the indifferent service, marginal prices, and subpar selection of second-rate goods? Zellers! That over fluorescently lit place with mildew ceiling tiles and mystery stains on the floor? Zellers! At least now the old-folks can do some mall walking again! Our uncrowded stores are the best place! Pretend its the 1990s all over again.

[esquire]

^ I wonder if they will make you wait in the cashier line at least 15 minutes even if there's only one person ahead of you, just like the old days?

The man in front of me is buying a pack of gum, this should be quick...oh shit, is that a credit card application the cashier is bringing out?

[kwoldtimer]

Istm that the Zellers “buzz” so far has been pretty much nil.

[harls]

I just recently went to my local Giant Tiger and they have eliminated all but two 'real person' checkouts for 6 automated ones. You have to line up in different lines - a live person or DIY. It must be fairly recent because the seniors behind me were extremely pissed.. probably because this is the one and only human interaction they get during the day.

[esquire]

I just recently went to my local Giant Tiger and they have eliminated all but two 'real person' checkouts for 6 automated ones. You have to line up in different lines - a live person or DIY. It must be fairly recent because the seniors behind me were extremely pissed.. probably because this is the one and only human interaction they get during the day.

I visited a Dunkin Donuts in the US recently and there were no staff at the counter. They directed you to a kiosk (human interaction only provided at the drive thru). Which sucks because it takes 10 times as long to order than to just say it to a person.

I don't live there so obviously it was a one time deal. But I make a point of avoiding places where they expect you to use an order kiosk or scan your own order. Mainly because it takes way longer (the Dunkin kiosk) or the system is a total pain in the ass (self-scan at supermarkets). A year ago I walked out of a Walmart leaving a cart full of groceries behind when they told me they expected me to scan it all myself. That was the last time I ever did a grocery shop at Walmart beyond running in for a couple of items.

There is a Dollarama near me that is self checkout only... I never set foot in there and opt for the other ones instead.

[harls]

I will use the self checkouts if I have one or two things with a barcode.

Limes for my gin and tonic don't have bar codes, and that's when I get mad.

[esquire]

^ That's exactly it... hassles with produce, etc. Then you have to sit there and wait for someone to come rectify the situation. I'll scan a few packaged items with barcodes but I'm sure as hell not going to scan a 150-item grocery shop.

[JHikka]

The Zellers activation that i've walked past was quite literally a corner of a Bay location with a few red and white signs, some Zellers branded shelves, and...that's about it. Incredibly predictable from that company at this stage.

[Djeffery]

Basically for the length of the pandemic up to now, I have used PC Express pickup at my local No Frills. Order online, go there at 9 on a Saturday morning and they load it into the car and off I go. Moved last week to a town a half hour away and the local No Frills here doesn't do curbside, you have to go in to get your pre-picked order. So we gave Walmart a shot. I have to say that it's handy how Walmarts have taken their former auto shops and made them grocery pickups at a few of the stores I have been by. But the big pain is that while No Frills just drops the bags in the back and off you go, Walmart brings out your order in plastic totes and the guy has to unload them item by item into whatever you have in the back (I put 4 laundry baskets there, but I saw one lady with just a pile of bags that the guy was packing). Took forever, especially since this was a "first groceries in our new house" order. I'm also very used to the brands we get from No Frills over the last 13 years.

Man, have I ever been spoiled and gotten lazy about groceries the last few years. I may give No Frills a shot with the indoor pickup, but I might decide if I'm doing that, I might as well just go back to shopping for myself too.

[MonctonRad]

The Zellers activation that i've walked past was quite literally a corner of a Bay location with a few red and white signs, some Zellers branded shelves, and...that's about it. Incredibly predictable from that company at this stage.

It's almost as if they are planning to fail. Or, perhaps a final vainglorious Hail Mary pass attempt.

[manny_santos]

I visited a Dunkin Donuts in the US recently and there were no staff at the counter. They directed you to a kiosk (human interaction only provided at the drive thru). Which sucks because it takes 10 times as long to order than to just say it to a person.

I don't live there so obviously it was a one time deal. But I make a point of avoiding places where they expect you to use an order kiosk or scan your own order. Mainly because it takes way longer (the Dunkin kiosk) or the system is a total pain in the ass (self-scan at supermarkets). A year ago I walked out of a Walmart leaving a cart full of groceries behind when they told me they expected me to scan it all myself. That was the last time I ever did a grocery shop at Walmart beyond running in for a couple of items.

There is a Dollarama near me that is self checkout only... I never set foot in there and opt for the other ones instead.

I’ve heard that some Shoppers Drug Mart locations are forcing customers to use the self checkouts unless they’re paying with cash. I’ve only heard of this in Ontario.

I use self-checkout in some instances. I use it more at Walmart than anywhere else, because I got so tired of constantly being asked by the cashiers if I wanted their credit card. At Safeway I’ll use it if I have only a couple items but otherwise I’d rather go to a cashier, especially if I have produce or bakery items.

[urbandreamer]

I hate when idiots/luddites refuse to use self checkout. The tech has been around for ages - 20 years ago I briefly had a job building them. (I lost my temper watching an old friend have a melt down because she had to use them once, and proceeded to remove all the boxes from the frozen pizza etc - nuts.) The local No Frills often has 30+ ppl line up for cashiers meanwhile you can be out in minutes with self checkout. Also, since covid, it's safer to move quickly out the door and avoid interacting with often sick employees. Watch a YouTube video if the tech intimidates you. Since I tend to buy the same produce, I've memorized most of the codes.

No Frills, Food Basics, Walmart, SDM, Home Depot, Metro, Uniqlo etc - I love self checkout.

[SpongeG]

most Dollaramas have self-checkout now, I hate when I have to line up because they don't have self-checkout. I have problems with some of the Save-on-foods self-checkouts, In some of the older stores the savings card will not scan, and then I have to go line up for a cashier cause without the card price some items are just way too expensive. Overall I don't mind self-checkouts. As I may have mentioned before, in Australia almost all the stores were 90% self-checkout and at most one real live cashier, I assume it is due to the very high minimum wage they have down there, the way they set up their checkouts is very easy to navigate.

[Djeffery]

I hate when idiots/luddites refuse to use self checkout.

Yep, given the choice for the same level of convenience for me, I'll use the staffed checkout. But I'm not standing in a long line thinking I'm making a political statement to the company that I refuse to use those devil spawn self checkouts. There is no level of minimum wage that would stop retailers from using them. Technology improves and jobs change, and different jobs get created as a result.

[toaster]

Doesn't bother me if someone doesn't want to use self-checkout, actually it usually means there is a shorter wait for me to use the self-checkout. Older people aren't in a rush, they don't mind waiting, they like interacting with a person. Why does something like that bother you?

[MonctonRad]

Live and let live. As long as the option exists for individuals to choose either self service or traditional checkouts, then who cares?

I personally never use the self serve checkouts. This is a personal choice. Other people may have difficulty with self serve because of emotional, intellectual or physical limitations. These people should not be discriminated against.

Likewise with retailers who have elected not to allow cash transactions in their stores. This is blatantly discriminatory, and is a not-too-subtle strategy at avoiding service to the poor or unhoused who may not have banking cards or any form.

Retailers should serve the entirety of the population, not just an entitled subset thereof.

[MolsonExport]

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[MolsonExport]

I’ve heard that some Shoppers Drug Mart locations are forcing customers to use the self checkouts unless they’re paying with cash. I’ve only heard of this in Ontario.

I use self-checkout in some instances. I use it more at Walmart than anywhere else, because I got so tired of constantly being asked by the cashiers if I wanted their credit card. At Safeway I’ll use it if I have only a couple items but otherwise I’d rather go to a cashier, especially if I have produce or bakery items.

Galen Weston has to make more money! Spare a thought for poor ol' Galen, who froze prices for three months on his No-Name products!
https://assets1.canadiangrocer.com/styles/primary_articles_short/s3/2022-09/screen_shot_2022-09-08_at_12.08.46_pm.jpg?itok=f2YQFUbY

Dc2GTDk8UJA

[esquire]

Yep, given the choice for the same level of convenience for me, I'll use the staffed checkout. But I'm not standing in a long line thinking I'm making a political statement to the company that I refuse to use those devil spawn self checkouts. There is no level of minimum wage that would stop retailers from using them. Technology improves and jobs change, and different jobs get created as a result.

I'm not making a political statement by refusing to use them, it's simply my desire to avoid something that is inconvenient. The store is taking something that is their problem (paying a cashier to ring up groceries) and making it my problem.

Maybe some day when the technology improves and I don't have the little red light come on for every 20th item I'd consider doing it. But it is way too wonky to make me want to use it now. Same thing with the fast food restaurants...when the day comes where I can tell a kiosk "medium coffee, 1 milk, 1 sugar", tap my card and move on then I'll use it. But the ridiculous setup where you have to navigate 10 pages just to order a coffee is one that I will happily avoid.

[Acajack]

I'm not making a political statement by refusing to use them, it's simply my desire to avoid something that is inconvenient. The store is taking something that is their problem (paying a cashier to ring up groceries) and making it my problem.

Maybe some day when the technology improves and I don't have the little red light come on for every 20th item I'd consider doing it. But it is way too wonky to make me want to use it now. Same thing with the fast food restaurants...when the day comes where I can tell a kiosk "medium coffee, 1 milk, 1 sugar", tap my card and move on then I'll use it. But the ridiculous setup where you have to navigate 10 pages just to order a coffee is one that I will happily avoid.

I am with you on this one. I only use the self checkouts reluctantly and if I only have 2-3 easily scannable items. For that I have to admit they are pretty handy.

You've also touched upon an annoying thing about our era: technology that is supposed to make our lives simpler ends up making it more complicated.

Like having to open an account with your email, phone number and password just to order a bloody pizza or make a reservation in a restaurant. Or in some cases even buying a bag of pet food - in person!

[niwell]

I don't particularly like the idea of self-checkouts (or at least full replacement), but as someone who rarely shops at chain grocery stores and even more infrequently does the "big shop" I do find myself using them when available. However, the only reason is because I only have a few items and only a fraction of the actual cashier lanes are open with massive lines of people with full carts. Usually there isn't a line for self-checkout. Of course if I have beer/wine then they aren't an option, regardless of how few other items I have with me.

I would much rather order online or to make a reservation than talk on the phone though, even if it takes more time in the long run. Years in retail have given me an intense aversion to talking to anyone on the phone if I can avoid it. Totally fine with going into places in person to order / check them out just hate the phone - I find a lot of people in my age group are similar. We still remember what it was like to have to do it.

[harls]

Of course if I have beer/wine then they aren't an option, regardless of how few other items I have with me.

You can buy beer or wine at a self-checkout in Quebec.. you just have to wait for the 'supervisor' person to come and wave their magic wand and confirm you aren't a kid.

[Nashe]

I'm getting faster, but I'll never be able to self-check out as fast as a cashier can. I use self checkout when 1) the lines for cashiers are long or 2) I only have a couple of items and none of them are "problematic" (produce, weird sale items).

[Acajack]

You can buy beer or wine at a self-checkout in Quebec.. you just have to wait for the 'supervisor' person to come and wave their magic wand and confirm you aren't a kid.

Yes, the "supervisor person" often aged 15-16 who checks that you're over 18.

One of my kids worked as a cashier in a supermarket at one time and was selling beer and wine at the age of 15.

[niwell]

You can buy beer or wine at a self-checkout in Quebec.. you just have to wait for the 'supervisor' person to come and wave their magic wand and confirm you aren't a kid.


Now that I think about it, it may just be a No Frills rule that doesn't allow it. I've had someone check my ID at a Metro self check-out.

[manny_santos]

I hate when idiots/luddites refuse to use self checkout. The tech has been around for ages - 20 years ago I briefly had a job building them. (I lost my temper watching an old friend have a melt down because she had to use them once, and proceeded to remove all the boxes from the frozen pizza etc - nuts.) The local No Frills often has 30+ ppl line up for cashiers meanwhile you can be out in minutes with self checkout. Also, since covid, it's safer to move quickly out the door and avoid interacting with often sick employees. Watch a YouTube video if the tech intimidates you. Since I tend to buy the same produce, I've memorized most of the codes.

No Frills, Food Basics, Walmart, SDM, Home Depot, Metro, Uniqlo etc - I love self checkout.

At the local Safeway, I find the cashiers to be much faster than the self-checkout. On quite a few occasions I've gone in and seen a long lineup - up to 10 people - waiting for the self-checkout while there are multiple cashier lanes open with either no lineup or only one customer who is already having their groceries scanned.

I live in a neighbourhood that skews much younger than the rest of Metro Vancouver; as a generalization I find the self-checkouts at this particular Safeway are used mostly by people under 40 while the checkout lanes are used by mostly older people.

[Ozabald]

You can buy beer or wine at a self-checkout in Quebec.. you just have to wait for the 'supervisor' person to come and wave their magic wand and confirm you aren't a kid.

Same with the grocery stores in Ontario which sell beer & wine; as well as the grocery stores in BC which sell wine.

[acottawa]

It's almost as if they are planning to fail. Or, perhaps a final vainglorious Hail Mary pass attempt.

I still think there is a niche for a discount store that is nicer than Walmart and Giant Tiger, but the execution doesn't seem to work.

[kwoldtimer]

Doesn't bother me if someone doesn't want to use self-checkout, actually it usually means there is a shorter wait for me to use the self-checkout. Older people aren't in a rush, they don't mind waiting, they like interacting with a person. Why does something like that bother you?

Plus they have an expectation of receiving the service that they're paying for. Now, for annoying, let's talk about the women (always women, istm) who don't start rummaging in their purse for their wallet until after the cashier has told them how much they oww. :hell:

[esquire]

I still think there is a niche for a discount store that is nicer than Walmart and Giant Tiger, but the execution doesn't seem to work.

I went back to Target last week... it has gotten even nicer over the past few years. It pains me that we had it, but then had it taken away so soon. Zellers wasn't and won't ever be that.

[MonctonRad]

I still think there is a niche for a discount store that is nicer than Walmart and Giant Tiger, but the execution doesn't seem to work.

Oh, I agree, and I wouldn’t mind seeing a return of Zellers, but they should be standalone stores rather than a discount section in preexisting Bay stores.

In particular, Zellers could do very well in mid sized Canadian cities where the only real competition is Walmart. With the current rollout, mid sized cities are missing out.

[kwoldtimer]

Oh, I agree, and I wouldn’t mind seeing a return of Zellers, but they should be standalone stores rather than a discount section in preexisting Bay stores.

In particular, Zellers could do very well in mid sized Canadian cities where the only real competition is Walmart. With the current rollout, mid sized cities are missing out.

I can't imagine such a Zellers competing with Walmart on price.

[MolsonExport]

The Bay must have a lot of underutilized space, or perhaps they are just desperate to generate some traffic, hoping to convert some of those Zellers shoppers into buying a Bay thing or three.

[MonctonRad]

I can't imagine such a Zellers competing with Walmart on price.

Price isn’t necessarily everything. There’s also selection, atmosphere, nostalgia, and the little extras like the old Zellers restaurants. This can build customer loyalty.

[kwoldtimer]

Price isn’t necessarily everything. There’s also selection, atmosphere, nostalgia, and the little extras like the old Zellers restaurants. This can build customer loyalty.

Maybe I'm wrong, but to the Walmart/Costco crowd, I would have thought that price is indeed everything. They'd be hard for me to explain otherwise, although Costco does have that additional gross quantities thing going.

[MonctonRad]

Maybe I'm wrong, but to the Walmart/Costco crowd, I would have thought that price is indeed everything. They'd be hard for me to explain otherwise, although Costco does have that additional gross quantities thing going.

Walmart has a certain "cache" about it (Google "people of Walmart" sometime). :)

I find Walmart offputting. I much preferred Zellers (and Target when they were here). I don't think I'm alone in this.

[theman23]

Walmart has a certain "cache" about it (Google "people of Walmart" sometime). :)

I find Walmart offputting. I much preferred Zellers (and Target when they were here). I don't think I'm alone in this.

Have you forgotten how bad Zellers was, or at least how derelict it had gotten by the end? The only reason anyone ever stepped foot in one was because that side of the mall parking lot always had ample space.

[urbandreamer]

I've noticed Walmart, Dollarama and SDM has replaced their mostly local part time staff with South Asian TFW types, and aggressively brought in self checkouts. What happened to the previous black, white and Latino workers?

Oh and for all you guys complaining about Galen Weston Inc. Last year I worked briefly at their distribution centre - I quit because they're very noisy, polluted places surrounded by constant idling trucks and have very high turnover of staff. Anyway, it's obvious they're an extremely inefficient organization and Walmart/Costco could easily put them out of business if they get their grocery supply chains in order. Instead of ranting about self checkouts and GW, why don't you complain about their blatant disregard for their lowest paid, arguably hardest working employees?

[kwoldtimer]

Walmart has a certain "cache" about it (Google "people of Walmart" sometime). :)

I find Walmart offputting. I much preferred Zellers (and Target when they were here). I don't think I'm alone in this.

I too find Walmart offputting, although I zip in from time to time when I know what I want to pick up, but I will never forget going in to the Zellers on St Laurent in Ottawa in the years before they closed - it was absolutely the most depressing shopping experience I've ever had. Not the Walmart "cache" (sic), just a collection of the downtrodden and oppressed. It could have served as the set for a post-apocalytic movie.

[theman23]

as off putting as Wal Mart may be, I bet every single poster on this forum still shops there “from time to time”. OTOH I’d wager very few ever bothered to go to Zellers in the years leading up to its closure.

[1overcosc]

I've noticed Walmart, Dollarama and SDM has replaced their mostly local part time staff with South Asian TFW types, and aggressively brought in self checkouts. What happened to the previous black, white and Latino workers?

Oh and for all you guys complaining about Galen Weston Inc. Last year I worked briefly at their distribution centre - I quit because they're very noisy, polluted places surrounded by constant idling trucks and have very high turnover of staff. Anyway, it's obvious they're an extremely inefficient organization and Walmart/Costco could easily put them out of business if they get their grocery supply chains in order. Instead of ranting about self checkouts and GW, why don't you complain about their blatant disregard for their lowest paid, arguably hardest working employees?

One of the side effects of the Trudeau policy of flooding out universities with foreign students who are given points towards PR applications if they work is that stores here in Kingston are now overwhelmingly staffed with international Queens students, mostly South Asian. It's a bit of an odd sight as the local permanent population here is still very white although its gradually becoming more diverse. There's something discomforting about being at Home Depot and every single customer in line is white while the staff are all brown. It makes the city feel like some sort of colonialist economy.

[Wigs]

as off putting as Wal Mart may be, I bet every single poster on this forum still shops there “from time to time”. OTOH I’d wager very few ever bothered to go to Zellers in the years leading up to its closure.

Zellers in the 80s/90s was good. At the end (before Target abysmally planned takeover) most Zellers stores had been run into the ground, whereas Walmart was constantly expanding and a lot of areas had newer layouts with the grocery section.
The Zellers at Calgary's 2nd largest mall had rodents running through it during the day while shopping. Can't even make this up. Tried to let corporate know about it.

There's 2 Walmarts in my area. One is an absolute traffic cluster**** and the other had a great next-in-line cashier queuing system but they ruined it installing way too many self checkouts and sparse cashiers.
Suffice it to say, I've only been to Walmart once in the past 3-3.5 years.
Canadian Tire has a lot of things I used to pickup at Walmart (cleaning supplies, kitchen things, etc).

[Loco101]

One of the side effects of the Trudeau policy of flooding out universities with foreign students who are given points towards PR applications if they work is that stores here in Kingston are now overwhelmingly staffed with international Queens students, mostly South Asian. It's a bit of an odd sight as the local permanent population here is still very white although its gradually becoming more diverse. There's something discomforting about being at Home Depot and every single customer in line is white while the staff are all brown. It makes the city feel like some sort of colonialist economy.

It's the exact same thing in Timmins as well except we have a significant local Indigenous population. There are SO many South Asian Northern College students here who make up almost all of the workers in large stores and fast food restaurants. One sad thing about it is that francophones here can't be served in French in so many places anymore.

[theman23]

It's the exact same thing in Timmins as well except we have a significant local Indigenous population. There are SO many South Asian Northern College students here who make up almost all of the workers in large stores and fast food restaurants. One sad thing about it is that francophones here can't be served in French in so many places anymore.

Didn’t you vote for this?

[casper]

Didn’t you vote for this?

I did. We are facing a major demographics crisis if it were not for immigration.

One million immigrants has make a major dent in correcting for this and we need more.

As for major employers brining on indigenous workers. It is about time.

[MonctonRad]

Have you forgotten how bad Zellers was, or at least how derelict it had gotten by the end? The only reason anyone ever stepped foot in one was because that side of the mall parking lot always had ample space.

I tend to remember an older Zellers, before it was in it's agonal death throws. This older Zellers was simply a good quality lower end general department store with reasonable prices, broad selection and a generic but predictable diner.

[MolsonExport]

I too find Walmart offputting, although I zip in from time to time when I know what I want to pick up, but I will never forget going in to the Zellers on St Laurent in Ottawa in the years before they closed - it was absolutely the most depressing shopping experience I've ever had. Not the Walmart "cache" (sic), just a collection of the downtrodden and oppressed. It could have served as the set for a post-apocalytic movie.

Worst for me was undoubtedly the Sears Outlet in beautiful London Ontario, just before they closed for good. The place might have once been a Woolco or Kmart or something, and it had absolutely no renovations since opening in the 1960s. In it, was nothing but shopworn floor models, scratch & dent appliances, and expired fashion. Most customers were "seniors on a budget". Absolutely soul-sucking.

https://live.staticflickr.com/8602/16371788346_28dc4056e8_b.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/KDKMY1/london-ontario-canada-14th-october-2017-ontarios-superior-court-authorized-KDKMY1.jpg

[esquire]

I tend to remember an older Zellers, before it was in it's agonal death throws. This older Zellers was simply a good quality lower end general department store with reasonable prices, broad selection and a generic but predictable diner.

Everyone always mentions the Zellers diner but I always remember them being completely empty save for a couple of seniors and maybe a worker on their break. I think once in my adult life did I ever eat there, and I don't remember it being impressive or even decent value for the money... I went back to eating in the mall food court after that.

[Ozabald]

Everyone always mentions the Zellers diner but I always remember them being completely empty save for a couple of seniors and maybe a worker on their break. I think once in my adult life did I ever eat there, and I don't remember it being impressive or even decent value for the money... I went back to eating in the mall food court after that.

As a teen, would eat at the Zellers restaurant when they would have their all you can eat Big Z burger and fries combo special! Some of the larger Sears stores also had sit-down restaurants. Can remember eating at the Sears restaurant at their store in the Village Mall in St. John's. And K-Mart stores had restaurants too.

[SpongeG]

I think people liked the Zellers restaurant cause it was pretty basic old school food and not many restaurants do that style now.

I went to the Zellers in Surrey yesterday, it was nice, decent selection of items, cheap and not bad, it definately brought a lot of foot traffic to the bay store.

[esquire]

I went to the Zellers in Surrey yesterday, it was nice, decent selection of items, cheap and not bad, it definately brought a lot of foot traffic to the bay store.

I think that will last about one month until everyone has had their fill of reliving the old days and posting it on instagram.

[urbandreamer]

Zellers always sucked. It was a place where BiWay shoppers went to buy crap they didn't need on credit. (Kind of like Costco ha.)

My parents mostly shopped for us kids at the local small town BiWay and Mark's and Spencer's and Robinson's at Conestoga Mall, which was replaced by the Bay. I remember getting these cheap Kmart shoes once and feeling poor. Now that I'm actually poor, I cringe whenever shopping at these colonial-style TFW-staffed discount stores. (I mostly shop for clothing online to avoid feeling like I'm in Rudyard Kipling's India.)

As for the LPC/CPC made up demographic crunch talking point: easily solved by giving $ to Canadian families able/willing to have 3+ kids. I'd suggest $75000/kid (paid monthly until the child turns 18), which is still cheaper than the average cost of immigration.

[jonny24]

I don't like self checkout because how many freaking menu buttons you have to click. Especially if you have to hit "start" or something instead of just scanning the first item. Fuck right off with that. Air Miles? No. Rewards card? No. Bags? No - who's being honest about this? Donate? No. Produce? Fuck off.

I use them if I have few enough items that I'm holding them in my hands. If I have a basket or cart - to the cashier. There isn't enough room to unload + stack your items for a full grocery shop at a self checkout!

I did have to use both the other day - my fault for not looking, but my cashier was for some reason the only line where beer sales weren't allowed. WTF? If you sell beer, every POS should be able to process that. I wasn't about to go stand in another cashier line after I'd unloaded my groceries on the belt, so I did self checkout with my beers after.

I used to go Walmart just for their chicken breast deal - now it's not worth their stupid maze of lines and checkout areas, if the price at metro is under $15 vs Walmart's $12 I just pay the extra to not have to make another stop.

On the flip side - I went to a Rexall that had no self checkouts. It was kind of a weird situation, they had closed early for a snowstorm the night before (there was a note on the door), but didn't lock up or turn the lights off. So when I was there before work I walked right in, but it was a ghost town with no employees anywhere. I wasn't about to go somewhere else, and I needed my damn cold medicine to get through the work day. No self checkout, I don't carry cash... so I hope they were happy with the random American $10 in my wallet that I left on the counter, lol.

[thewave46]

Zellers always sucked. It was a place where BiWay shoppers went to buy crap they didn't need on credit. (Kind of like Costco ha.)

My parents mostly shopped for us kids at the local small town BiWay and Mark's and Spencer's and Robinson's at Conestoga Mall, which was replaced by the Bay. I remember getting these cheap Kmart shoes once and feeling poor. Now that I'm actually poor, I cringe whenever shopping at these colonial-style TFW-staffed discount stores. (I mostly shop for clothing online to avoid feeling like I'm in Rudyard Kipling's India.)

As for the LPC/CPC made up demographic crunch talking point: easily solved by giving $ to Canadian families able/willing to have 3+ kids. I'd suggest $75000/kid (paid monthly until the child turns 18), which is still cheaper than the average cost of immigration.

The demographic crunch (if it does indeed exist) isn't going to be solved by having a bunch of kids 9 months from now. They don't just pop out of mom ready to backfill an entry-level position at Zellers. If you have a time machine and can go back to 2003, sure maybe that works, but I'd like to think that people have kids for better reasons than having them be 'economic machines of the future'. The people having kids in 1960 probably weren't worrying about whether the 1980s would really need that labour.

Second, I don't see why Amazon or whatever online site is some mecca of ethically treating its employees. Mostly, it's out of sight, out of mind. Ironically, it's Costco that pays their employees middle-class wages, despite the pejorative attitude towards it. I mean, I've got my beefs with society's "Costco-mentality", but their employees are pretty well-treated.

There's also this weird colonial bit that keeps getting rehashed for some reason, with a side of sneering down at said people. It's almost like wandering around London, UK and having an old English guy make a snide comment as to 'how the colonies are doing', as if trying to twist the blade somehow at some random tourist from Canada will just bring the British Empire back. It's sour grapes, but a really sad English version of it.

[ConundrumNL]

As a teen, would eat at the Zellers restaurant when they would have their all you can eat Big Z burger and fries combo special! Some of the larger Sears stores also had sit-down restaurants. Can remember eating at the Sears restaurant at their store in the Village Mall in St. John's. And K-Mart stores had restaurants too.

Attended many birthdays parties at the Zellers Restaurant as a child.

The Woolco on Water Street also had a restaurant. I'm too young to remember, but my parents said they had the best cupcakes.

[Ozabald]

Attended many birthdays parties at the Zellers Restaurant as a child.

The Woolco on Water Street also had a restaurant. I'm too young to remember, but my parents said they had the best cupcakes.

It was actually Woolworth's. They had an excellent bakery and as a kid shopping with my mother, we would always pick-up some of their Orange Twist doughnuts. They were so-ooo good! Further down Water St. was Bowering's. They had two full-service restaurants in their store. One on the top level and one on the ground level (Captain's Cabin). Really good food.

[MolsonExport]

Loblaws gave Galen Weston a $3M raise last year, filings show (https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/grocery-executive-compensation-1.6802091)
https://i.cbc.ca/1.6775000.1678473919!/cpImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/galen-weston.jpg
Galen Weston got a 55 per cent raise for running Loblaws last year, after management consultants hired by the company his family controls determined he was underpaid.
https://i.cbc.ca/1.6775000.1678473919!/cpImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/galen-weston.jpg
Weston also earns compensation from his role as the head of George Weston Ltd., the holding company that controls most of the family's wealth via voting control of Loblaws, the real estate arm, Choice Properties, and other assets.
https://i.cbc.ca/1.6775000.1678473919!/cpImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/galen-weston.jpg
"The results of the 2022 review provided that Mr. Weston's total direct compensation was below the market median and Loblaw's compensation policy objective," the company's management proxy circular for last year said.
https://i.cbc.ca/1.6775000.1678473919!/cpImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/galen-weston.jpg
With a net worth of US$8.7 billion
https://i.cbc.ca/1.6775000.1678473919!/cpImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/galen-weston.jpg

[MolsonExport]

when was the last time they opened a new Hudson's Bay?

[esquire]

when was the last time they opened a new Hudson's Bay?

Good question. I think a few may have opened across Canada in the wake of Eaton's final closure (when it was owned by Sears). I know HBC opened a Bay store at Winnipeg's largest mall, Polo Park, sometime around 2005. At that point it supplanted the old downtown flagship as the main Bay store in the city. That was probably the last hurrah.

[urbandreamer]

Picture this scenario: Every retail/service/delivery/restaurant worker in India is white, mostly from a rural farming community in North America. How do locals feel about this situation?

[Acajack]

Picture this scenario: Every retail/service/delivery/restaurant worker in India is white, mostly from a rural farming community in North America. How do locals feel about this situation?

Well, until about 75 years ago in India they had a situation where just about anyone with any power was white and British... :P

[canucklehead2]

when was the last time they opened a new Hudson's Bay?

The 1980's most likely. It's a retail jewel that fell into the wrong hands and is now basically being stripped for its real estate assets like Sears was... And K-Mart was... I have no doubt we are in the "sad final days" of HBC as we know it. The last item I bought from them was on vacation in Vancouver in 2014 at the flagship downtown location which is being scaled back as we speak.

[urbandreamer]

Google "what happened to the English and their mixed-race offspring in India." Fascinating how after living in India for 200 years, locals rejected them, forcing most to leave. Some of my English ancestors were Anglo Indian. There's a graveyard in Calcutta I want to visit someday.

Anyway, look at what's happening today as reverse Colonialism. I expect a similar outcome c.2300.

If the English and French couldn't get along in Quebec, and arguably many upper class Colonial Anglos had French Norman roots similar to majority Quebecois roots in Northern France, then I'm betting Canada breaks up into ethno city states within 200 years.

[MolsonExport]

Picture this scenario: Every retail/service/delivery/restaurant worker in India is white, mostly from a rural farming community in North America. How do locals feel about this situation?

Can you tell me what this has to do with the price of beans in Peru?

[thewave46]

Picture this scenario: Every retail/service/delivery/restaurant worker in India is white, mostly from a rural farming community in North America. How do locals feel about this situation?

Take away the very skin colour aspect, and you've described most of the waves of immigration to Canada. Examples: Irish, Italian, or Eastern European waves. The locals got all in a tizzy briefly as a new "peril" arrives, taking up roles the locals aren't really interested in.

It seems to have worked out. Their kids ended up ordinary Canadians. Hell, even factor in skin tone, if that's the great marker. Russell Peters, Michelle Jean or PK Subban as accepted as locals today. :shrug:

Should we be doing this to to extent we are, given some other problems? Debate away in another thread.

[acottawa]

The 1980's most likely. It's a retail jewel that fell into the wrong hands and is now basically being stripped for its real estate assets like Sears was... And K-Mart was... I have no doubt we are in the "sad final days" of HBC as we know it. The last item I bought from them was on vacation in Vancouver in 2014 at the flagship downtown location which is being scaled back as we speak.

Urbandreamer's childhood mall opened a brand new Bay as part of an expansion a few years ago (although it was a relocation from elsewhere in the mall).

[esquire]

The 1980's most likely. It's a retail jewel that fell into the wrong hands and is now basically being stripped for its real estate assets like Sears was... And K-Mart was... I have no doubt we are in the "sad final days" of HBC as we know it. The last item I bought from them was on vacation in Vancouver in 2014 at the flagship downtown location which is being scaled back as we speak.

My post 3 posts before yours identified a new Bay that opened up in the mid 2000s ;)

[urbandreamer]

Re: Conestoga Mall. Iirc Zehrs opened c.1999, possibly taking over the old HBC space, which possibly was originally Kmart. (I seem to remember a Kmart where the Valumart is now in the early 1980s at Uptown Waterloo Square.) HBC had moved to the old Robinson's space soon after they went under mid 1990s. M&S must've closed around the same time: I miss their pork pies. (1995-2002 a bit sketchy memory, as I'd moved to Toronto for school.)

Re: Westons. It's upper/middle management that should be blamed for the majority of corporate bs. They're the actual brains/assholes calling the shots.

Re: Peru. Let's replace all those white service workers with beautiful Peruvian women, like the girl I dated 12 year's ago. She wondered why there weren't any Peruvian restaurants in Toronto - well today there's one 10 minute's walk from me at Bloor and Kennedy Park Road.

[acottawa]

Re: Conestoga Mall. Iirc Zehrs opened c.1999, possibly taking over the old HBC space, which possiblywas originally Kmart. HBC had moved to the old Robinson's space soon after they went under mid 1990s. M&S must've closed around the same time: I miss their pork pies.



Zehrs moved from the current Winners location into a new expansion. The Kmart/Zellers/Target space is now an Indigo and some other stores. The HBC is a new expansion, former HBC/Robinsons was turned into regular mall stores. M&S closed long before any of this.

[canucklehead2]

Urbandreamer's childhood mall opened a brand new Bay as part of an expansion a few years ago (although it was a relocation from elsewhere in the mall).

Relocations aren't new...don't count to me. I'm talking expansion locations like new mall, new market... If they did The Bay at Edmonton Eaton Centre was the newest in 1999 and believe me nothing about that shift from the East side of the mall to the West felt new.... Even the shelving I am sure was secondhand. :yuck:

[Acajack]

If the English and French couldn't get along in Quebec, and arguably many upper class Colonial Anglos had French Norman roots similar to majority Quebecois roots in Northern France, then I'm betting Canada breaks up into ethno city states within 200 years.

200 years is an eternity in history. While modern nation-states are probably the most stable such set-ups in human history, it's awfully naïve and historically amnesic to think that our current arrangements in northern North America are in any way optimal and permanent.

[urbandreamer]

Anyway, Conestoga Mall used to have character. This trend towards everywhere looking identical with beige/grey/white palette is soul sucking. I was tired and seeking relief from the July heat when I went to Chinook Centre Mall. It's a bland space that sort of reminded me of 1990s Square One or Masonville Place. It felt like I was in suburban GTA not Alberta. Sad.

Then there's Victoria's Hillside Mall: I think I spent 3 hours in the Canadian Tire as everything else sucked.

The worst mall I've been in recently: Cambridge Centre. Ghetto AF ha.

200 years isn't much in historical terms. Conestoga Mall is 50 years old; 200 year's ago Conestoga wagons ruled the main drag between PA/NY and Ontario, following the old indian trail along the Grand River between Wainfleet, Winger, Dunnville, Caledonia, Brantford, Galt, Waterloo to Elmira. (One of my childhood "toys" was the neighbours original pioneer Conestoga wagon they used to move, firstly to Markham Ontario area - a Mennonite colony - then to Huron Perth in the early 1970s - obviously not by wagon ha.)

[thewave46]

It felt like I was in suburban GTA not Alberta. Sad.

I don't know what you expected for a post-modern mall. I think of them as something akin to a modern international airport. Aside from maybe a couple that stand out as something different (say, Vancouver International Airport as a Canadian example), they're all the same in the bland sense. That's a design feature, not a bug.

[acottawa]

If the English and French couldn't get along in Quebec, and arguably many upper class Colonial Anglos had French Norman roots similar to majority Quebecois roots in Northern France, then I'm betting Canada breaks up into ethno city states within 200 years.

Usually over a period of hundreds of years the various cultures in a particular locality form some sort of a hybrid, except when there are very aggressive government policies to keep them apart.

[urbandreamer]

How do explain Canadian Jewish, Mennonite, Quebecois, Acadian, Metis, First Nation, Assyrian, Ukrainian, Chinese, Japanese, Italian, Sikh etc history of segregation?

I'm probably biased, but imo the most secular and open to intermarriage are English and Scottish Canadians. (I'm currently dating a Mennonite girl, and not once has she said "I'll become Anglican or Presbyterian;" not once did my Jewish ex gf say she'd convert to my secular Church of Nothing religion; did my grandfather's Scottish friend who married a Japanese Canadian in 1930s Vancouver suddenly become accepted by their community?)

[acottawa]

How do explain Canadian Jewish, Mennonite, Quebecois, Acadian, Metis, Assyrian, Ukrainian history of segregation?

Canadian Jewish - Not segregated, except certain ultra-orthodox communities that physically and isolate themselves
Mennonite - Strong cultural practice of isolation
Quebecois - Provincial government that controls nearly all aspects of education, language and culture
Acadian - Proximity to Quebec, geographic isolation
Metis - An example of cultural hybridization
Assyrian - Policy of tolerance but cultural isolation by the various Muslim states that ruled them (same reason Greeks, Armenians, Maronites, Serbs, Copts, Jews, etc. retained cultural identity)
Ukrainian - Constant shifts in empire borders meant Ukrainians were never ruled by anyone for any length of time.

[urbandreamer]

I'm talking about their history in Canada over the centuries. Why didn't Montreal's Sephardic and Ashkenazi communities intermarry with local French and Anglo Canadians to the same extent they did in Boston, New York and Charleston? Why didn't Mennonites in Canada intermarry with Scottish Presbyterians like they did in Virginia, Pennsylvania and Ohio? etc.

Canada has a nasty history of ethnic and cultural segregation. I see little evidence of today's immigrants intermarrying at meaningful levels to create a new Canada. Nothing on the magnitude of Latin America.

[casper]

My post 3 posts before yours identified a new Bay that opened up in the mid 2000s ;)

Was the Bay at Metrotown in Burnaby the very new Bay that was not relocated from somewhere else? I can't think of any other that came after that one.

[acottawa]

I'm talking about their history in Canada over the centuries. Why didn't Montreal's Sephardic and Ashkenazi communities intermarry with local French and Anglo Canadians to the same extent they did in Boston, New York and Charleston? Why didn't Mennonites in Canada intermarry with Scottish Presbyterians like they did in Virginia, Pennsylvania and Ohio? etc.

Canada has a nasty history of ethnic and cultural segregation. I see little evidence of today's immigrants intermarrying at meaningful levels to create a new Canada. Nothing on the magnitude of Latin America.

I have not seen statistics on mennonite or jewish marriage rates in different jurisdictions so am not in a position to comment in the differences.

You don't particularly need intermarriage to create a hybrid culture, you need a common language and a shared public space. Look at youth slang in Toronto, there is a lot of Jamaican influence, but also other cultures and stuff that just came up naturally.

[Acajack]

I'm talking about their history in Canada over the centuries. Why didn't Montreal's Sephardic and Ashkenazi communities intermarry with local French and Anglo Canadians to the same extent they did in Boston, New York and Charleston? Why didn't Mennonites in Canada intermarry with Scottish Presbyterians like they did in Virginia, Pennsylvania and Ohio? etc.

Canada has a nasty history of ethnic and cultural segregation. I see little evidence of today's immigrants intermarrying at meaningful levels to create a new Canada. Nothing on the magnitude of Latin America.

I see little evidence that people aren't intermarrying among groups, and I think what you see in terms of many other groups who historically intermarried is the result of 100-150-200 years of close cohabitation between groups.

You need to give it time.

Though I think that if there is a little bit less intermarriage today it is due to critical mass being far greater for many communities these days.

I know for example Haitians who grew up in smaller towns and cities and others who grew up in Montreal.

Those who grew up outside Montreal are generally married with white Québécois.

Those who are from Montreal are way more likely to have a Haitian life partner.

[Acajack]

I'm talking about their history in Canada over the centuries. Why didn't Montreal's Sephardic and Ashkenazi communities intermarry with local French and Anglo Canadians to the same extent they did in Boston, New York and Charleston? Why didn't Mennonites in Canada intermarry with Scottish Presbyterians like they did in Virginia, Pennsylvania and Ohio? etc.

Canada has a nasty history of ethnic and cultural segregation. I see little evidence of today's immigrants intermarrying at meaningful levels to create a new Canada. Nothing on the magnitude of Latin America.

Latin America has a much greater historical tradition of mestizaje than Anglo North America in general actually, and in this sense French Canada is a tiny bit more like Latin America.

Though it's also true that Latin America's biggest immigration waves are largely behind them, and therefore the mixing you see is the result of people arriving quite some time ago.

[esquire]

I see little evidence that people aren't intermarrying among groups, and I think what you see in terms of many other groups who historically intermarried is the result of 100-150-200 years of close cohabitation between groups.

You need to give it time.

Though I think that if there is a little bit less intermarriage today it is due to critical mass being far greater for many communities these days.

I know for example Haitians who grew up in smaller towns and cities and others who grew up in Montreal.

Those who grew up outside Montreal are generally married with white Québécois.

Those who are from Montreal are way more likely to have a Haitian life partner.

It's interesting to see how this has played out in my family. Lots of immigrants, children of immigrants, grandchildren, etc.

In the old days of more tight knit community, life revolving around the church and other ethnic institutions, etc. intermarriage was uncommon. But over time it became more common to marry outside the community to the point where it is no longer really noticed anymore except by the oldest generations.

Newer communities are still going through those phases. When I was in uni one of my friends, who was always very driven and accomplished and definitely not a timid wallflower, had to hide her black boyfriend of several years from her Indo-Canadian family. Staying within the community is still much more common with more recently-arrived groups, although in an urban environment it's certainly not going to happen 100% of the time.

[MolsonExport]

I see little evidence that people aren't intermarrying among groups, and I think what you see in terms of many other groups who historically intermarried is the result of 100-150-200 years of close cohabitation between groups.

You need to give it time.

Though I think that if there is a little bit less intermarriage today it is due to critical mass being far greater for many communities these days.

I know for example Haitians who grew up in smaller towns and cities and others who grew up in Montreal.

Those who grew up outside Montreal are generally married with white Québécois.

Those who are from Montreal are way more likely to have a Haitian life partner.


Intermarriage (miscegenation) has been growing exponentially in Canada, the United States, the UK, Australia, and in many other developed countries.

I do research on this topic.

According to the 2011 Canadian census, approximately 4.6% of all married/common-law couples were mixed unions. These numbers are up from previous census periods in which the proportions were 3.9%, 3.1% and 2.6% of all couples in 2006, 2001, and 1991, respectively. The US Census Bureau data reports that 1 out of 6 newlyweds in 2015 were married to a person of a different race, a 5-fold increase from 1967—when the US Supreme Court annulled state laws banning interracial marriage—where less than 3% of marriages were ethnically-mixed (Pew Research, 2017). Extrapolating current immigration and intermarriage trends, 21% of Americans are forecast to have multiple ethnic ancestry by 2050 (Waters 2000). The number of British citizens reporting a mixed-ethnic background more than doubled between the 2001 and 2011 census periods, and now accounts for more than 2% of the UK population and a larger share of the population than any single minority ethnic group (gov.uk 2018).

[theman23]

Canada has a nasty history of ethnic and cultural segregation. I see little evidence of today's immigrants intermarrying at meaningful levels to create a new Canada. Nothing on the magnitude of Latin America.

This may have a lot more to do with you being socially isolated.
I'm not sure how anyone can have a social circle in Canada in 2023 and say that there's "little evidence of today's immigrants intermarrying at meaningful levels". Gen Z in particular seems to have no hesitancy at all to dating amongst different ethnic groups.

[Acajack]

Quebecois - Provincial government that controls nearly all aspects of education, language and culture
.

For a fairly long time in Canada, Quebec was also treated as a "reserve" of sorts for French Canadians, and they were to be assimilated if they dared move outside of it.

So it's not all that surprising that most of them ended up thinking of it as the only place they could truly call home. (Even if for a time Quebec wasn't necessarily that awesome a place for them either.)

[esquire]

This may have a lot more to do with you being socially isolated.
I'm not sure how anyone can have a social circle in Canada in 2023 and say that there's "little evidence of today's immigrants intermarrying at meaningful levels". Gen Z in particular seems to have no hesitancy at all to dating amongst different ethnic groups.

I think it varies depending on how long a particular ethnic group has been in Canada. At one time Italian and Ukranian immigrants were considered "ethnic" but now the grandchildren or great grandchildren of the original immigrants are basically generic white people. Intermarrying is extremely common.

However, for newer ethnic communities with large numbers of arrivals over the last 20-odd years, it appears to be less common. Not surprising given that those communities of newcomers tend to be way more tight knit as compared to the third or fourth generation Canadian who has no meaningful connection to the "old country", its language and culture, etc.

[Acajack]

I'm talking about their history in Canada over the centuries. Why didn't Montreal's Sephardic and Ashkenazi communities intermarry with local French and Anglo Canadians to the same extent they did in Boston, New York and Charleston? Why didn't Mennonites in Canada intermarry with Scottish Presbyterians like they did in Virginia, Pennsylvania and Ohio? etc.


French Canadians intermarried with various groups like Indigenous people, Irish immigrants, Fraser Highlander Scots and early Italian, Lebanese, etc. immigrants as well.

But newcomers to Quebec started to move more to the anglophone minority for a variety of reasons starting around the early 20th century and this continued for most of the 20th century. This captured most of the Jewish immigration (with some exceptions) to Montreal and even subsequent waves of Italians and other "Ellis Island" style immigrants (like Greeks) that have come here since then.

[Wigs]

I see little evidence that people aren't intermarrying among groups...

this

Intermarriage (miscegenation) has been growing exponentially in Canada, the United States, the UK, Australia, and in many other developed countries.

I do research on this topic.

Molson, what are the stats for 2021?

This may have a lot more to do with you being socially isolated.
I'm not sure how anyone can have a social circle in Canada in 2023 and say that there's "little evidence of today's immigrants intermarrying at meaningful levels". Gen Z in particular seems to have no hesitancy at all to dating amongst different ethnic groups.

Millennials and Gen Z. Friend groups resemble the United Nations. Intermarriage more common the younger they are. Everyone has LGBT friends.

urbandreamer hasn't come to terms yet that he's officially old(er) and becoming increasingly out of touch with present day Canada. As a geezer Millennial I see that I'm not nearly as progressive as my Gen Z cousins.