Canadian Retail Thread

[someone123]

If Halifax is getting an IKEA, I can't see why Victoria wouldn't be able to support one with the large expansion IKEA is planning. It doesn't have that many less people than Halifax and many more within access on the Island further north.

To your other point, it seems as though if anything, Victoria is underretailed, if such a thing exists.

There's no IKEA in Atlantic Canada but Victoria already has 2 within daytrip distance. Vancouver Island only has around 750,000 people and an IKEA there wouldn't get much business from the mainland since it's easier and cheaper for just about everybody there to get to Richmond or Coquitlam.

[isaidso]

It bears mentioning that if IKEA sets up in Halifax it will be a return to the city. Halifax was their first store in north America. It's too bad it closed in the first place.

[ue]

Wasn't there also an IKEA in Victoria in the '90s?

I realize there is a wider region for Halifax to play with than Victoria, but with 12 new stores planned, they can't all be going in existing markets, and there are only so many new markets available and Victoria is sizable with decent catchment area.

[casper]

Wasn't there also an IKEA in Victoria in the '90s?

I realize there is a wider region for Halifax to play with than Victoria, but with 12 new stores planned, they can't all be going in existing markets, and there are only so many new markets available and Victoria is sizable with decent catchment area.

Yes, but it was a "limited selection" smaller type store.

[1overcosc]

Here in Kingston it would make sense for IKEA to open a seasonal pop-up store every year around Labour Day for all the students who move in. Have it be a small store where the most popular/basic items for students (like dressers, desks, etc.) would be in stock and everything else could be ordered for pickup from Ottawa or Toronto. It would make a killing, and there's usually enough vacant retail space around the city at any given time that they wouldn't have too much trouble finding a home for it every year.

[Innsertnamehere]

It bears mentioning that if IKEA sets up in Halifax it will be a return to the city. Halifax was their first store in north America. It's too bad it closed in the first place.

It is returning. The store is already under construction.

[north 42]

With a full sized store already in Metro Detroit, a pick up store already in Windsor and a possible full size store in London in the future, the Windsor region will be well served!

[LeftCoaster]

What does a store in Detroit do for Windsor residents? Do you guys not pay duty on items purchased in the US or something?

[MonctonRad]

What does a store in Detroit do for Windsor residents? Do you guys not pay duty on items purchased in the US or something?

I think Windsorites are so used to paying duty they don't give it a second thought. A lot of border towns are like that.......

[Acajack]

I think Windsorites are so used to paying duty they don't give it a second thought. A lot of border towns are like that.......

There is a lot of "wave-through" at the border these days. Not in the sense that you can drive through without stopping, but if you give the officer a reasonable amount for your purchases, and don't raise any suspicions, they'll just tell you to have a good day.

The last time I was sent to the counter to pay GST or duty was more than five years ago. I've crossed many times since then, sometimes with hundreds of dollars in purchases declared.

[MonctonRad]

There is a lot of "wave-through" at the border these days. Not in the sense that you can drive through without stopping, but if you give the officer a reasonable amount for your purchases, and don't raise any suspicions, they'll just tell you to have a good day.

The last time I was sent to the counter to pay GST or duty was more than five years ago. I've crossed many times since then, sometimes with hundreds of dollars in purchases declared.

I'm sure that you're right. It depends somewhat on which border crossing that you use. For example the I-95/NB-95 border crossing at Woodstock is pretty notorious for making you empty your car. There is also a new mega border crossing in Saint Stephen where the divided NB Highway 1 connects to US Highway 1. None of the locals use this crossing (it's on a bypass around town), and there are many bored customs agents on hand in vastly over engineered and over constructed buildings on both sides of the border. Both times that I've used this crossing recently, I've had to exit my vehicle and had the car searched (both coming and going). The last time I went through a couple of weeks ago returning from Campobello Island, I went to the old border crossing in downtown Saint Stephen/Calais and it was a matter of a few casual questions and a quick wave of the hand and I was through.

[Innsertnamehere]

I've gone through the new st Stephen crossing several times with no issue myself.

[esquire]

I'm sure that you're right. It depends somewhat on which border crossing that you use. For example the I-95/NB-95 border crossing at Woodstock is pretty notorious for making you empty your car. There is also a new mega border crossing in Saint Stephen where the divided NB Highway 1 connects to US Highway 1. None of the locals use this crossing (it's on a bypass around town), and there are many bored customs agents on hand in vastly over engineered and over constructed buildings on both sides of the border. Both times that I've used this crossing recently, I've had to exit my vehicle and had the car searched (both coming and going). The last time I went through a couple of weeks ago returning from Campobello Island, I went to the old border crossing in downtown Saint Stephen/Calais and it was a matter of a few casual questions and a quick wave of the hand and I was through.

I presume they ask you what you do for a living... I'm surprised they still want to search your car once they know. Do they think you're going to be smuggling car parts under the upholstery to save $200 in HST?

Emerson MB/Pembina ND can be pretty bad for this but fortunately I've never been subjected to a search. My cross-border shopping has declined dramatically over the past couple years but I certainly noticed that the last few times when I presented my fistful of tallied receipts with over-limit purchases, the CBSA guys would just wave me through anyway. That made my day.

[MonctonRad]

I've gone through the new st Stephen crossing several times with no issue myself.

Well, to be honest, the second time that I went through the new Saint Stephen crossing, the US border agent was visibly upset. apparently they have an automated system telling them which cars (randomly) they were supposed to check. On this particular day, she said that the system was telling them to check about every second car. She apologized for the inconvenience. :)

I presume they ask you what you do for a living... I'm surprised they still want to search your car once they know. Do they think you're going to be smuggling car parts under the upholstery to save $200 in HST?

I don't think you're any further ahead if you tell the border agent you're a medical doctor (at least entering the states). That seems to get them interested in what types of drugs or medical appliances that you might be bringing with you......

[Acajack]

I'm sure that you're right. It depends somewhat on which border crossing that you use. For example the I-95/NB-95 border crossing at Woodstock is pretty notorious for making you empty your car. There is also a new mega border crossing in Saint Stephen where the divided NB Highway 1 connects to US Highway 1. None of the locals use this crossing (it's on a bypass around town), and there are many bored customs agents on hand in vastly over engineered and over constructed buildings on both sides of the border. Both times that I've used this crossing recently, I've had to exit my vehicle and had the car searched (both coming and going). The last time I went through a couple of weeks ago returning from Campobello Island, I went to the old border crossing in downtown Saint Stephen/Calais and it was a matter of a few casual questions and a quick wave of the hand and I was through.

Maybe they're just afraid that I might make a fuss or a complaint if I don't get actively offered service in French. (Which I am legally entitled to.)

The land crossing I use most often is in the decidley un-bilingual Thousand Islands region of Ontario.

:P

[kwoldtimer]

Maybe they're just afraid that I might make a fuss or a complaint if I don't get actively offered service in French. (Which I am legally entitled to.)

The land crossing I use most often is in the decidley un-bilingual Thousand Islands region of Ontario.

:P

Don't they have a sign to show which queue(s) offer service in French?

[niwell]

I go to Niagara Falls, NY occasionally with a female friend of mine - partly for shopping but mostly for just an interesting day trip and to check out American craft beer. Always been waved right through, even when I have said I brought a bit more craft beer back than is the allowed limit. However this friend almost always gets searched when she is with another female friend and they claim less than the limit, or she is with her family.

I guess they assume two women or a family could only be there for the purpose of shopping? And will try and bring back more than they are allowed?

[SpongeG]

There's no IKEA in Atlantic Canada but Victoria already has 2 within daytrip distance. Vancouver Island only has around 750,000 people and an IKEA there wouldn't get much business from the mainland since it's easier and cheaper for just about everybody there to get to Richmond or Coquitlam.

its not an easy day trip, you spend up to an hour in the lineup, 90 or so minutes on the ferry plus travel time etc. plus the cost of the ferry

[Acajack]

Don't they have a sign to show which queue(s) offer service in French?

Yes, but it's hit and miss even if you go to the designated booth. They will say "hi/bonjour" but are often a bit lost once you go beyond the simple greeting.

It's even somewhat problematic at Ottawa airport believe it or not.

[Acajack]

Don't they have a sign to show which queue(s) offer service in French?

I go to Niagara Falls, NY occasionally with a female friend of mine - partly for shopping but mostly for just an interesting day trip and to check out American craft beer. Always been waved right through, even when I have said I brought a bit more craft beer back than is the allowed limit. However this friend almost always gets searched when she is with another female friend and they claim less than the limit, or she is with her family.

I guess they assume two women or a family could only be there for the purpose of shopping? And will try and bring back more than they are allowed?

This is a horrible question but... are they visible minority?

EVERY SINGLE friend or acquaintance I know (regardless of appearance, profession, etc.) who is a visible minority reports getting searched disproportionately more often at the border than I do.

[esquire]

^ One of my high school teachers liked to tell a story about insisting on being served in French at the Emerson, MB port of entry... he had to wait a half hour while some off-duty staffer who could speak French drove in from Saint Jean Baptiste.

Personally, I don't know that I'd get that insistent about proving a point with border guards!

[Acajack]

^ One of my high school teachers liked to tell a story about insisting on being served in French at the Emerson, MB port of entry... he had to wait a half hour while some off-duty staffer who could speak French drove in from Saint Jean Baptiste.

Personally, I don't know that I'd get that insistent about proving a point with border guards!

It can go either way.

They can just wave you through to avoid potential complaints as I alluded to above.

Or you can get treated badly if they think you're a troublemaker.

I usually choose the middle ground: I approach them with a "bonjour" (and usually get an accented, cautious "bonjour" in response.

And then I switch to English. I often exaggerate my French accent a bit to give the impression I am being conciliatory in spite of my legal right.

If they were to bring me over for a search, though, I'd lose my English right away. Even the guy mopping up the floor better speak to me in French or they'll have Graham Fraser on their ass within days.

[north 42]

What does a store in Detroit do for Windsor residents? Do you guys not pay duty on items purchased in the US or something?

More often than not we get waved through, especially when you get to know certain border guards by crossing the border daily for work like my husband does.

[esquire]

And then I switch to English. I often exaggerate my French accent a bit to give the impression I am being conciliatory in spite of my legal right.

If they were to bring me over for a search, though, I'd lose my English right away. Even the guy mopping up the floor better speak to me in French or they'll have Graham Fraser on their ass within days.

:haha:

[casper]

Any thoughts on the impact delivery lockers is going to have on retail.

There is a Canadian company that is now offering computerised refrigerated locker systems (http://www.omnioninc.com/) for grocery store e-commerce.

In Europe and Asia these are pretty common. Amazon has built out a network of regular lockers for parcel delivery in 7/11 stores in the US.

[Pinion]

It can go either way.

They can just wave you through to avoid potential complaints as I alluded to above.

Or you can get treated badly if they think you're a troublemaker.

I usually choose the middle ground: I approach them with a "bonjour" (and usually get an accented, cautious "bonjour" in response.

And then I switch to English. I often exaggerate my French accent a bit to give the impression I am being conciliatory in spite of my legal right.

If they were to bring me over for a search, though, I'd lose my English right away. Even the guy mopping up the floor better speak to me in French or they'll have Graham Fraser on their ass within days.

My brother's CBSA, apparently Vancouver-to-Alaska cruise ship passengers (i.e. Americans) are really impressed when he says "Hello, bonjour."

Fluent French isn't a requirement to get hired anymore btw, he can barely say a sentence.

[q12]

IKEA Canada Announces Full Size Store in Quebec City

Scheduled to open in summer 2018, IKEA Quebec City to be located at intersection of Highway 40 and Highway 540.

BURLINGTON, ON – IKEA Canada is thrilled to make the next stop on its coast-to-coast expansion journey, with the announcement of a full-size store for Quebec City.

Scheduled to open in summer 2018, the IKEA Quebec City store will be the 14th IKEA store in Canada. It will be located at the intersection of rue Mendel and avenue Blaise-Pascal in the Sainte-Foy borough, just south of the intersection of Highway 40 and Highway 540. The store will take roughly 14-16 months to build once the ground has been broken in spring 2017 and will be approximately 340,000 square feet (31,500 metres squared) in size. The store will include a restaurant, Market Hall, Showroom, and SMALAND playroom and offer customers a complete range of convenient services including home delivery, assembly, planning, and exchanges.

“It was clear from the first day we opened the Pick-up and order point that Quebec City residents are passionate supporters of the IKEA brand,” said IKEA Canada Acting President David McCabe. “We look forward to welcoming many more customers to the new IKEA store when it opens in summer 2018.”

“Thousands of families were dreaming and waiting for this moment. Today, we are all proud to welcome the company in our city with a full size store. This announcement confirms again the strength of Quebec City’s retail market and our vigorous economy with an unemployment rate near 4%, still the lowest in the country, said Régis Labeaume, Mayor of Quebec City. “Quebec is in competition with the world and again today, a major international company chooses to do business here, in Québec, l'accent D'Amérique.”

The IKEA Quebec City store will be LEED certified when it opens. With a particular focus on energy and waste avoidance, there will be waste management equipment that will be installed to maximize material recycling and diversion from landfill. Additionally, IKEA is pleased to share that every single light source throughout the store will be LED lighting. While the store will operate in a sustainable manner, it will also provide inspiration and solutions that will enable customers to live a more sustainable life at home. For example, they will find solutions that will help them reduce and sort waste, save water and energy, and encourage healthier living.

IKEA aims to be the leader in life at home and offer its customers inspiring home furnishing solutions. Each new store is designed in a way that will present local home solutions that customers can relate to, are inspirational and are possible to implement in an affordable way. In order to best represent Quebec City customers in the new store, home visits will be conducted during the planning and design process. Home visits allow IKEA to interview people in their homes to get a deep understanding of their needs, dreams and frustrations in and around the home. It is our intention with this research not to mirror what people have in their homes today, but to help people live a better everyday life at home and give them new ideas to solve their needs. In November 2015, IKEA Canada announced a coast-to-coast expansion plan to double the store count from 12 to 24 stores in the next 10 years. The Quebec City store is the second stop on this journey. The retailer announced a new store for Halifax earlier this year.

ABOUT IKEA CANADA
IKEA is a leading home furnishing retailer with 375 stores in more than 50 countries worldwide, which are visited by 884 million people every year. IKEA Canada has 12 stores, an eCommerce virtual store, 6 Pick-up and order points in Quebec City and southern Ontario and two Collection Points in Halifax and Saskatoon. The company also recently announced plans to open stores in Halifax and Quebec City. Last year, IKEA Canada welcomed 25 million visitors to its stores and 75 million visitors to the IKEA.ca website. Founded in 1943, IKEA’s business philosophy is to offer a wide range of products of good design and function at prices so low, the majority of people can afford them. For more information on IKEA, please visit: www.IKEA.ca.

http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/about_ikea/newsitem/2016_quebec_city_store_announcement

[q12]

With today's Quebec City announcement here is an updated map of FULL SIZE IKEA stores in North America either open, under construction or planned.

http://i65.tinypic.com/e9zord.png

[esquire]

^ Cool map. Looks like Halifax will have bragging rights (such as they are) as the smallest North American metro with a full size IKEA for years to come. On the other hand, it's surprising that a massive metro like Houston apparently only has one location?

[q12]

^ Cool map. Looks like Halifax will have bragging rights (such as they are) as the smallest North American metro with a full size IKEA for years to come. On the other hand, it's surprising that a massive metro like Houston apparently only has one location?

Yeah crazy isn't it? I added a 2nd Dallas store that is suppose to open around the same time as Halifax in 2017, although it's actually smaller than the Halifax store.

But for a State of nearly 30 million it's suprising they will only have 4 stores. I think IKEA is more popular in Canada than the U.S.

[Acajack]

The IKEA map really shows how "small is beautiful" (population-wise anyway) can work in Canada's favour. There are tons of metros in the U.S. that have well over 1 million people that don't have an IKEA and are some distance away from IKEA stores.

Costco is another good example of this. It has stores in sub-200k Canadian cities like Moncton, St. John's and Sudbury. But none in cities like Buffalo NY which is of similar size to Ottawa-Gatineau. (Ottawa-Gatineau has 4 Costcos.)

Costco has only one store in Pittsburgh, a metro comparable to Vancouver.

[esquire]

So are all those IKEAs a feather in our collective cap because we support so many with a relatively small population, and we like to patronize a store that sells such stylish furniture and décor pieces?

Or is it an indictment of our economic condition because we can only buy cheap, somewhat disposable furniture that is specifically suited to smaller spaces that we're forced into due to our relative lack of prosperity?

A bit of an economic Rorschach test for you ;)

[q12]

So are all those IKEAs a feather in our collective cap because we support so many with a relatively small population, and we like to patronize a store that sells such stylish furniture and décor pieces?

Or is it an indictment of our economic condition because we can only buy cheap, somewhat disposable furniture that is specifically suited to smaller spaces that we're forced into due to our relative lack of prosperity?

A bit of an economic Rorschach test for you ;)

Here is a possible shocking stat.

IKEA Canada is planning on doubling the store count from 12 to 24 stores by 2025 (already up to 14 with Halifax and Quebec City under construction).

Unless IKEA USA ramps up expansion, it is possible that they would be in the 50 stores range by 2025.

That would be approx. 2-1 ratio USA IKEA's to Canadian IKEA's, compared to a 10-1 population ratio.:eek:

I think this is more to do with Canada being a little more open and accepting to European styles, and also the fact the IKEA stores in the states are not painted Red, White and Blue. Plus Americans like everything including furniture and houses as big as possible which isn't really found in IKEA, except for the size of the store itself.

[esquire]

Plus Americans like everything including furniture and houses as big as possible which isn't really found in IKEA, except for the size of the store itself.

Haha, good point. Ashley is kind of like their IKEA... that furniture is practically designed to be as big and take up as much space as possible. Some of my McMansion dwelling relatives swear by that stuff.

[LeftCoaster]

I think this is more to do with Canada being a little more open and accepting to European styles, and also the fact the IKEA stores in the states are not painted Red, White and Blue. Plus Americans like everything including furniture and houses as big as possible which isn't really found in IKEA, except for the size of the store itself.

Ikea can be quite bland as well so I don't think that is it.

I think it has more to do with the average size of dwelling that Canadians live in Vs americans.

If you look at where the Ikeas are located in the US its predominantly in more dense centres, where as large cities that are characterized by sprawl and big houses (ie the Texan cities) have far less Ikeas than one would expect.

[WhipperSnapper]

I haven't looked or purchased furniture from Ikea in a really long time however, when I did, I didn't find their furniture (sofa, tables, etc.) particularly smaller.

It was cheap and disposable. Perhaps Americans are still like my parent's generation in which you buy once for life. It wouldn't really explain the amount of retail square footage in the US however, they also have an absolutely insane amount of rental storage space that doesn't even account for the larger homes. They could all be hoarders.

[Acajack]

Could there be less fierce competition in Canada (compared to the States) for IKEA from domestic retailers in the same market niche?

[esquire]

Could there be less fierce competition in Canada (compared to the States) for IKEA from domestic retailers in the same market niche?

Before they opened an IKEA in Winnipeg, I used to go to the one in Minneapolis. Despite being a big American city there weren't many places that offered a similar product. Definitely more places that offered more upscale, high-end type design, but if anything the comparable low to mid range alternatives weren't really any better than what there was in Winnipeg (places like EQ3, Urban Barn, Jysk).

[ue]

The only parts of the US that appear to have rates of IKEA stores similar to Canada (though still not at the same level) is California and the Bos-Wash corridor. But the Tri-State area, with nearly 20 million people, still has the same amount of IKEA stores as the GTA with 6 million people. Los Angeles likewise only has 4 stores and covers a vast geographic area at the same time.

I decided to see how this holds up across the Atlantic, where IKEA has been around for much longer in. Greater London itself has only 4 IKEA stores for what, 9, 10 million people? The rest of the UK stores have only 1 per city/region, which is more in keeping with Canada's mid and smaller sized centres. In France, Paris appears to have 7 IKEAs, which is more in keeping per capita with Canada than London or New York. In Germany, Berlin with 4 million or so has 4 IKEAs, Hamburg has 3, Munich 2, and Cologne 2. Also more in keeping with Canada per capita. Though I know Germany is IKEA's largest market.

[WhipperSnapper]

Is the UK like Europe or North America when it comes to renting an apartment? For example, is there flooring/kitchen cabinets, etc with the unit or do you, as a tenant, have to put them in? Is this still done throughout Europe too?

Ikea seems to be big in NA markets where people move around a lot. Cheap disposable furniture is definitely an advantage.

[Nouvellecosse]

Could there be less fierce competition in Canada (compared to the States) for IKEA from domestic retailers in the same market niche?

I'd say that's definitely the case in my local market. Here, we have a number of big box furniture and appliance stores like Leon's and Worldwide Furniture that are affordable, but offering mostly stuff i would never want in my home. It tends to be either "mock country" (stuff like honey-coloured wood dining sets and shelving) or "overstuffed suburban" (black or maroon leather or vinyl pillow-style sofas and recliners, complemented by 80s style glass coffee tables).

There are a couple of smaller stores offering nicer designs, but they're higher end and much more costly than Ikea.

[GreaterMontréal]

Quebec City will have its Ikea.
summer 2018, in Ste-Foy, situated in the big 5Msf commercial center. 340,000 sf

http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/about_ikea/newsitem/2016_quebec_city_store_announcement

Quebec City already have a pick-up and order point.

[SpongeG]

Hudsons Bay is expanding to Europe, they will open a store in Amsterdam with more to follow

Department store chain Hudson’s Bay announced its first steps onto the Dutch market today. Over the coming years, the Canadian retailer will open approximately twenty department stores in Dutch cities. In Amsterdam, Hudson’s Bay signed a lease with IVY Group for the buildings located at Rokin 21, Rokin 49 and the Vleeshal building located at Nes.


http://www.ivygroup.nl/en/news/hudsonys-bay-opens-department-store-at-rokin-in-amsterdam


http://www.ivygroup.nl/golive/thumb.php?zc=2&src=/userfiles/Image/customimages/1987rokinb301-1_20160613173332.jpg&w=1180&h=885&cc=000000

[ue]

When was the last time a new Bay store was built in Canada?

[Nouvellecosse]

Why would they want that in Amsterdam? Is the Bay really interesting and unique enough that it could bring something of value to the market in Europe?

[MonctonRad]

Why would they want that in Amsterdam? Is the Bay really interesting and unique enough that it could bring something of value to the market in Europe?

A great place to sell maple syrup, stuffed toy moose, toques and Mountie dolls....... :)

[1overcosc]

The IKEA map really shows how "small is beautiful" (population-wise anyway) can work in Canada's favour. There are tons of metros in the U.S. that have well over 1 million people that don't have an IKEA and are some distance away from IKEA stores.

Costco is another good example of this. It has stores in sub-200k Canadian cities like Moncton, St. John's and Sudbury. But none in cities like Buffalo NY which is of similar size to Ottawa-Gatineau. (Ottawa-Gatineau has 4 Costcos.)

Costco has only one store in Pittsburgh, a metro comparable to Vancouver.

I've known a few Americans attending school here in Kingston who were utterly shocked to discover just how many stores and services are available here, considering the city only has 125,000 people. The fact that we have a Costco here was something all of them brought up, actually. (Another popular one was transit--many were surprised that bus transit was halfway decent here).

[GreaterMontréal]

I've known a few Americans attending school here in Kingston who were utterly shocked to discover just how many stores and services are available here, considering the city only has 125,000 people. The fact that we have a Costco here was something all of them brought up, actually. (Another popular one was transit--many were surprised that bus transit was halfway decent here).

Drummondville has a Costco, pop. 75,000 . To me, it seems normal for Kingston to have a Costco, with a population of 125,000. Trois-Rivières also has one. I think cities in Canada have a lot to offer, but we don't realize it.

[jmt18325]

I'm really surprised that Brandon doesn't yet have a Costco.

[SpongeG]

Courtenay on vancouver island has a costco with a population of 25,000 and a metro population of 55,000 but it does serve Vancouver Island north where there are a lot of resorts and fishing resorts etc. The closest one to that is Nanaimo about an hour south and the only other one on the island is in Langford for The Victoria Region.

[isaidso]

Why would they want that in Amsterdam? Is the Bay really interesting and unique enough that it could bring something of value to the market in Europe?

I assumed like most people that Hudson Bay would flat line into irrelevance or bankruptcy but they've made an astonishing comeback over the last 5 years.

They've been very smart in buying retailers with valuable real estate, selling the real estate, and then leasing the space back. They've poured the money into refurbishing their stores, refreshing their branding, and moving up market. Their downtown Toronto store is gorgeous and people are flocking back to that brand in large numbers.

The big acquisition of German firm Galeria Kaufhof represented their European beachhead with stores in both Germany and Belgium. The Netherlands was a natural fit. Dutch department store V&D went bankrupt so HBC pounced. When asked what brand the Dutch would like to see they responded that they wanted something of their own. The Dutch have an affinity for Canada stemming from Canadian troops liberating their country in WW2 and a Dutch princess being born in Ottawa during the war years.

"What we found out was that the people of the Netherlands wanted a young, exciting and interesting department store that was theirs, but they also loved Hudson’s Bay and they also loved the idea of a Canadian department store,” said Baker. So what we’ve done is, we are opening up a chain of premium department stores in the Netherlands that is similar to the Hudson’s Bay stores, but with a Dutch flavour to them."

I'll also re-post something I wrote last week as it bears repeating here:

I find Canadians often discount/dismiss what they have and assume foreigners couldn't possibly be interested in our institutions, our culture, our products, our brands, or visiting us if in direct competition with the US, Japan, France.... and their offerings. Roots is another example of a foreigner recognizing something right in front of us as valuable, then selling it to everyone.

Back when I was at business school the prevailing attitude was that Canadian companies were to be built up to a point where they could be sold to Americans. The idea that one could expand overseas was almost looked at as ludicrous dreaming. Thankfully, the generation now seizing power are far more confident in Canada and themselves.

[isaidso]

Hudson Bay's 'Canadiana' section with the point blankets, HBC branded products, etc. seems to do very well. It's something different, has a history to it, and they're high end products. Here's the new shoe department at Toronto's Queen Street Hudson Bay:

http://awards.arido.ca/_uploads/photo_gallery/5000c6qs7.jpg
Courtesy of arido

Hudson Bay also owns Saks and this is their new cafe in the same building as the Hudson Bay store on Queen:

http://www.blogto.com/listings/restaurants/upload/2016/09/20160831-lena590-02.jpg
Courtesy of lena

[SaskScraper]

The IKEA map really shows how "small is beautiful" (population-wise anyway) can work in Canada's favour. There are tons of metros in the U.S. that have well over 1 million people that don't have an IKEA and are some distance away from IKEA stores.

Costco is another good example of this. It has stores in sub-200k Canadian cities like Moncton, St. John's and Sudbury. But none in cities like Buffalo NY which is of similar size to Ottawa-Gatineau. (Ottawa-Gatineau has 4 Costcos.)

Costco has only one store in Pittsburgh, a metro comparable to Vancouver.

I think another reason why international stores, particularly Costco's hundred stores in Canada does so well in this country is because Canada doesn't have a lot of competition in grocery stores specifically. Other than Loblaw's company of store, Sobey's (Safeway, IGA), Overwaitea (Save-on-foods), there's only larger international company's like Walmart etc, nationwide.

There are regional grocery stores in Saskatchewan like Saskatoon Coop stores but other than the above mentioned stores plus the two Costco stores and each of the Walmarts in the city of Saskatoon, thats it besides small mom&pop grocery stores. USA has tons of other grocery stores for competition.

Something else I've noticed in a case of Saskatoon is that most of the major shopping malls and the Real Canadian Superstores in the city have underground parking which maybe help to make these shopping area's particularly popular during coldest time of year of Christmas.

[SaskScraper]

...

[Acajack]

I assumed like most people that Hudson Bay would flat line into irrelevance or bankruptcy but they've made an astonishing comeback over the last 5 years.




They still have a long way to go renovating their Canadian stores. I don't believe the renos of the downtown Ottawa store on Rideau are even close to being done. (Will stand corrected if I am mistaken.)

They haven't touched their Gatineau store at all except to change the outdoor sign from "La Baie" to "LA BAIE D'HUDSON". I actually think they are wondering whether or not we're worth it. There is a brand-new Simons in the same mall and it's stealing most of the department store-level fashion business from The Bay in Gatineau at the moment.

[WhipperSnapper]

Europe has blander retailers than Hudson's Bay. The Achilles heal is their service which, while improvement, still sucks. I'm sure that's a Canadian exclusive though.

Everyone knows of the downtown Toronto location. Most HBC stores I have gone to are in pretty desperate need of a refresher.

[flipv]

Europe has blander retailers than Hudson's Bay. The Achilles heal is their service which, while improvement, still sucks. I'm sure that's a Canadian exclusive though.

Everyone knows of the downtown Toronto location. Most HBC stores I have gone to are in pretty desperate need of a refresher.

They've refreshed key locations first (in Toronto the first three were Yorkdale/Queen/Sherway).. I'm not even sure if some of the more suburban ones (STC/Erin Mills) have even been refreshed yet.

Makes sense.. Spend money where you make money.

[esquire]

They haven't touched their Gatineau store at all except to change the outdoor sign from "La Baie" to "LA BAIE D'HUDSON". I actually think they are wondering whether or not we're worth it. There is a brand-new Simons in the same mall and it's stealing most of the department store-level fashion business from The Bay in Gatineau at the moment.

At least that's something. The DT Winnipeg store still has the old "The Bay" signage which makes it look even more pathetic and forlorn than it already was.

As for the Amsterdam store, it would be a weird feeling to see The Bay in Europe. But hey, between Tim Hortons and now The Bay, it's nice to see us actually exporting retail products. Something has to fill the gap now that Blackberry is pretty well dead.

[Trevor3]

At least that's something. The DT Winnipeg store still has the old "The Bay" signage which makes it look even more pathetic and forlorn than it already was.

As for the Amsterdam store, it would be a weird feeling to see The Bay in Europe. But hey, between Tim Hortons and now The Bay, it's nice to see us actually exporting retail products. Something has to fill the gap now that Blackberry is pretty well dead.

It's kind of strange how history works - the company was founded on selling Canadian products (Ok, North American furs) to Europeans. Now it's putting stores in Europe. It seems like something that would/should have happened long ago considering the initial role of the company.

[craneSpotter]

Courtenay on vancouver island has a costco with a population of 25,000 and a metro population of 55,000 but it does serve Vancouver Island north where there are a lot of resorts and fishing resorts etc. The closest one to that is Nanaimo about an hour south and the only other one on the island is in Langford for The Victoria Region.

The Comox Valley RD (Coutenay/Comox/Cumberland) has 65,000. It also has - 30 minutes north - the Campbell River area (Strathcona) with ~45,000. So that's 110k + in the immediate region for the Costco.

Plus, as you mention, the tourists/resorts/fishing lodges as far up as Port Hardy.

http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/Files/7b7c178e-da8e-468c-922b-0faae039c8db/2015Sub-ProvincialPopulationEstimates.pdf

Costco has been searching for land for a second Greater Victoria location for several years ... sometimes the right land, in the right location, is just not available.

[Nouvellecosse]

At least that's something. The DT Winnipeg store still has the old "The Bay" signage which makes it look even more pathetic and forlorn than it already was.

As for the Amsterdam store, it would be a weird feeling to see The Bay in Europe. But hey, between Tim Hortons and now The Bay, it's nice to see us actually exporting retail products. Something has to fill the gap now that Blackberry is pretty well dead.
It would sure be nice if Halifax had one. We don't have a single department store downtown yet they're going to build one on the other side of the fucking Atlantic.

[ue]

There's only 2 Bay stores in the whole of the Maritimes, which I found kinda odd... I guess HBC's focus was more on Central and Western Canada.

[esquire]

There's only 2 Bay stores in the whole of the Maritimes, which I found kinda odd... I guess HBC's focus was more on Central and Western Canada.

Even though they have a uber-Canadian image, The Bay was historically a western-focused company... they didn't open their first Toronto store until 1974.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Maybe it makes sense, I mean, their trading posts were all in Rupert's Land after all?

That's pretty surprising to hear there are two HBCs in the Maritimes. There are three within a fifteen minute drive of my apartment.

[esquire]

Maybe it makes sense, I mean, their trading posts were all in Rupert's Land after all?

All over Rupert's Land, exporting directly to Europe. Central/Eastern Canada didn't become the focus until the fur trading operations died off and HBC transformed itself into a retail chain.

[ue]

Even though they have a uber-Canadian image, The Bay was historically a western-focused company... they didn't open their first Toronto store until 1974.

Yes, it wasn't until they bought out Simpsons that they became more nationally-focused. And yet, they've penetrated the Windsor-Quebec corridor pretty well and have made their brand known there. I actually did see a fair number of the iconic HBC blankets in the Maritimes, and yet there's only one store in Halifax, and one in Sydney. I think there used to be one in Moncton, but otherwise nothing in NB or PEI. Also none in Newfoundland. The focus of HBC seems to be ON/QC/AB/BC, while throwing a bone to SK and MB for old time's sake.

[casper]

Yes, it wasn't until they bought out Simpsons that they became more nationally-focused. And yet, they've penetrated the Windsor-Quebec corridor pretty well and have made their brand known there. I actually did see a fair number of the iconic HBC blankets in the Maritimes, and yet there's only one store in Halifax, and one in Sydney. I think there used to be one in Moncton, but otherwise nothing in NB or PEI. Also none in Newfoundland. The focus of HBC seems to be ON/QC/AB/BC, while throwing a bone to SK and MB for old time's sake.

At one point HBC merged with the NorthWest Company. That brought together all the historical northern and rural outposts. In the mid 1980s there was a buyout of the rural and northern operation by the management team and they split and the new company adopted the old NorthWest company name.

The HBC spin-offs are still around. In additional the NorthWest company Field's is now an independent company again.

[Nouvellecosse]

Yes, it wasn't until they bought out Simpsons that they became more nationally-focused. And yet, they've penetrated the Windsor-Quebec corridor pretty well and have made their brand known there. I actually did see a fair number of the iconic HBC blankets in the Maritimes, and yet there's only one store in Halifax, and one in Sydney. I think there used to be one in Moncton, but otherwise nothing in NB or PEI. Also none in Newfoundland. The focus of HBC seems to be ON/QC/AB/BC, while throwing a bone to SK and MB for old time's sake.

It was only up until a few years ago that there were two in Halifax.

[ue]

Hmmm. So it's declining. Is the Bay just not popular out there?

[BretttheRiderFan]

It's been a bit of a rough go for all the major department stores the past few years, hasn't it? I mean, The Bay has been one of the more resilient ones, but still.

[isaidso]

They still have a long way to go renovating their Canadian stores. I don't believe the renos of the downtown Ottawa store on Rideau are even close to being done. (Will stand corrected if I am mistaken.)

They haven't touched their Gatineau store at all except to change the outdoor sign from "La Baie" to "LA BAIE D'HUDSON". I actually think they are wondering whether or not we're worth it. There is a brand-new Simons in the same mall and it's stealing most of the department store-level fashion business from The Bay in Gatineau at the moment.

Their Toronto stores were quite likely what was tackled first so Torontonians will have a more favourable view of Hudson Bay than elsewhere in Canada. As they've gone higher end, they're less of a mass marketer and more niche than they used to be. Ottawa and Winnipeg are surely large enough for them to want a presence but smaller cities might not be big enough to support a Hudson Bay.

They have 90 stores in Canada. That number will surely go down.

[isaidso]

As for the Amsterdam store, it would be a weird feeling to see The Bay in Europe. But hey, between Tim Hortons and now The Bay, it's nice to see us actually exporting retail products. Something has to fill the gap now that Blackberry is pretty well dead.

Other Canadian retail names one might be surprised to see outside Canada: Aldo, La Senza, Second Cup, Lululemon, TD Bank, Freshii, Scotiabank, and Couche Tard (everything outside Quebec will be rebranded Circle K), Smoke's Poutinerie, Four Seasons, Fairmont. There are quite a few more.

I was surprised to learn that Second Cup is in 23 countries. Circle K will be, by far, Canada's most prolific retail brand outside the country with 14,000+ stores in the US, Mexico, Norway, Sweden, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Russia, Poland, China, Indonesia, and Japan.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Where in Canada did Freshii originate? Because they're absolutely incredible.

[esquire]

Not sure I'd call circle K a Canadian brand, even if it is Canadian owned... Fairmont is more a product of mergers and acquisitions than something truly homegrown. lululemon on the other hand is probably one of the most prominent examples of a solid Canadian brand now.

[isaidso]

^^ Circle K and Fairmont were both US companies that were bought by Couche Tard and CP Hotels respectively. Companies often re-brand the whole firm when they grow. They could just have easily have gone with the Couche Tard and CP Hotels names globally. That they did the reverse doesn't negate that these are Canadian companies that are expanding globally.

Couche Tard (now Circle K) and Fairmont are very much companies that grew out of Canada.

Where in Canada did Freshii originate? Because they're absolutely incredible.

It was founded in Toronto in 2005.

[Taeolas]

Yeah the Bay never really expanded much in the Maritimes, at least not as The Bay.

Zellers on the other hand, used to be all over the place up here. 2 (ages ago there were 3 even) in Freddy, locations up North and all over. So that's probably partly how the HBC brand spread so far out here; beyond what you would expect for a 3-store basis.

Now, they are only in Sydney and Halifax. They were in Moncton up to 5 years or so ago; but moved out when Highfield Square closed (It's where the new Downtown Events Centre is being built now). The feeling is, they want back into Moncton, but are waiting for a good location to open up. (Either somewhere downtown again, or out in Champlain Place when Sears shuts down and/or if Walmart decamps).

I do wonder, if Sears Canada's woes continue, if HBC might put them out of their misery to claim the locations.

[Loco101]

Would you agree that Home Hardware is maybe the most common or visible retailer across Canada? You will see stores in large urban centres, suburban areas, towns and even rural villages.

I've seen locations in rural Newfoundland, many in traditionally pro-sovereignty areas of Quebec, isolated communities in Northern Ontario, etc.. And they have locations in the territories including Nunavut. It's hard to find a market in Canada that they haven't penetrated. You'll even find locations in the most densely populated parts of Toronto.

It's amazing that they have survived with competitors such as Home Depot, Lowe's, Canadian Tire and Rona.

[ue]

You actually don't see Home Hardware in the big cities out west. I was surprised the first time I was in Toronto to see them in such an urban location (but very useful) as they're generally associated with small towns out here.

[TownGuy]

The small town Home Hardware's really are a throw back to a different era with their funky little downtown locations. Like this one in Colborne, ON, population of 2000.

https://goo.gl/maps/ZCfC8tna4Cw

Looks like they're even expanding in that view.

[Nouvellecosse]

Hone Hardware isn't really in Metro Hfx either. I think there may be one small location in an out of the way location but I've never seen or gone to it.

[ILoveHalifax]

There is Payzant Home Hardware on Sackville Dr - it is much less than some of there stores. They also have a very small location on Wright Av in Dartmouth. There is one in Windsor, and Chester.
I am not at all surprised that they survive - their staff know their products and they wait on their customers quite unlike the big boxes where you will never find staff and if you do they don't have a clue

[MonctonRad]

Yeah the Bay never really expanded much in the Maritimes, at least not as The Bay.

They were in Moncton up to 5 years or so ago; but moved out when Highfield Square closed (It's where the new Downtown Events Centre is being built now). The feeling is, they want back into Moncton, but are waiting for a good location to open up. (Either somewhere downtown again, or out in Champlain Place when Sears shuts down and/or if Walmart decamps).

I do wonder, if Sears Canada's woes continue, if HBC might put them out of their misery to claim the locations.

The Bay only existed in Moncton for about 7-8 years or so. They took over the old Eaton's store in Highfield Square after that chain went bankrupt.

The Bay did decent business in Moncton despite the fact that Highfield Square nearly became a poster child for the "Dead Malls of Canada" thread. When Crombie decided to close the mall, the Bay was kicked out. As you pointed out, the new downtown Events Centre is now being built on the old Highfield Square site.

One of my sons was working at the Bay just before they closed. A couple of Toronto bigwigs came down to speak to the staff during the last week of operations. These executives essentially promised that the Bay would return to Moncton some day, as soon as a suitable location became available - the inference being in Champlain Place (the other mall), as soon as the nearly moribund Sears chain finally gave up the ghost.......

[casper]

Would you agree that Home Hardware is maybe the most common or visible retailer across Canada? You will see stores in large urban centres, suburban areas, towns and even rural villages.

I've seen locations in rural Newfoundland, many in traditionally pro-sovereignty areas of Quebec, isolated communities in Northern Ontario, etc.. And they have locations in the territories including Nunavut. It's hard to find a market in Canada that they haven't penetrated. You'll even find locations in the most densely populated parts of Toronto.

It's amazing that they have survived with competitors such as Home Depot, Lowe's, Canadian Tire and Rona.

Different culture. Home Hardware at the corporate level is owned by each of the stores and each store has a lot of freedom. Basically it is at network small little hardware stores that can stock what they want and adapt to their customers They know the local neighborhood and what was used when most of the housing stock in that area was built. End result is they hall the odd bits and pieces needed.

[BretttheRiderFan]

I find it interesting how small towns will often have an A&W, at least on the prairies. Subway and A&W seem to always be the first fast food franchises to come to any small town, usually followed by Tims. Beaverlodge, Alberta population 2,365 has an A&W. Valleyview, Alberta population 1,761 has an A&W.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Just looked for local Home Hardwares, not to be found in the city. There are stores in Spruce Grove, Morinville, Fort Saskatchewan, Sherwood Park, Beaumont and Devon though.

In the Peace region you'll find them everywhere. Hines Creek, Fairview, Peace River, Spirit River, Grande Prairie, Beaverlodge, Valleyview...

[TownGuy]

I find it interesting how small towns will often have an A&W, at least on the prairies. Subway and A&W seem to always be the first fast food franchises to come to any small town, usually followed by Tims. Beaverlodge, Alberta population 2,365 has an A&W. Valleyview, Alberta population 1,761 has an A&W.

Tims dominates the small town market here and is usually first to town. Never really thought about it but I guess Subway is up there also, although their store format is a lot smaller than your usual franchise, more like a pizza place. A&W is a usual suspect also.

[WhipperSnapper]

A&W is a huge chain. You don't get that way by avoiding small towns. Like Subway/Tims They do run counters in convenience stores too.

[1overcosc]

In the small town I grew up in (Embrun, ON), the first fast food provider was Tims, around 1997 or so, followed by a Subway a few years later. Oddly, the next one was actually Dairy Queen--they arrived around 2005. The whole time I was in high school, Dairy Queen was actually the only place in town to get a fast food hamburger.. so to me, I associated the brand with hamburgers. It was a bit of a shock to move to university where everyone associated DQ with ice cream and barely even thought about their burgers.

I only go back there to visit family on occasion and I never really explore much.. but I'm pretty sure Tims, Subway, and Dairy Queen are still the only fast food places today.

The little area of Ontario I grew up in is very devoid of corporate retail. The next town over, Russell, was weird in that it had basically no corporate stores at all. A population of about 3,000.. and no Tims, no Subway, no McDonalds, no Walmart. Everything there was mom-and-pop stores on the downtown retail strip, Home Hardware being the sole exception.

[BretttheRiderFan]

I've always found that seniors love to hang around and have a coffee in the mornings at small town A&Ws, and even big city ones to some extent. Kind of serves as the de facto coffee shop or Tims in a lot of towns on the prairies.

[Taeolas]

Home Hardware is surprisingly spread out. Freddy has 3 in its city limits, along with a 4th in Oromocto. I think Nackawic used to have one as well, but it closed up. It feels to me that they are often in the centre of town, having started there with the town and the town grew around it. (Forcing bigger home retailers like Rona, Home Depot, and even Kent out here out to the outskirts/big box districts).

As for restaurants, A&W was a latecomer in my hometown. Woodstock, NB was just atlantic restaurants (Pizza Delight first, then Greco, then Pizza Twice) for the longest times.

Subway was the first National chain to move in, in the early 90's. I think KFC moved into the mall next, around 94. Finally, TIm's moved in about a year later (I may have them inverted), and that seemed to open the floodgates. McD's came in right after that, followed by Pizza Hut and a second Tim's. A&W didn't show up until 2000ish, when the town finally got a theatre (the town had a drive-in back in the 80's but for 20 years the only theatre was across the border in Houlton). Pita Pit is the most recent to show up, as of a couple years ago.

[BretttheRiderFan]

The last major fast food chain I remember going into Grande Prairie was Harvey's. They didn't get one until maybe two or three years ago, and then two opened up in the span of a few months.

Starbucks was a late arrival as well, not until the mid-2000s, but once they came in, it wasn't long until there were about a half dozen or more. Carl's Jr also came in about four or five years back.

One thing I've noticed most smaller cities never seem to get is a Taco Bell. Not really sure why.

[Taeolas]

The last major fast food chain I remember going into Grande Prairie was Harvey's. They didn't get one until maybe two or three years ago, and then two opened up in the span of a few months.

Starbucks was a late arrival as well, not until the mid-2000s, but once they came in, it wasn't long until there were about a half dozen or more. Carl's Jr also came in about four or five years back.

One thing I've noticed most smaller cities never seem to get is a Taco Bell. Not really sure why.

Harvey's has been in Fredericton for as long as I can remember. They could really use another building; and I wouldn't mind them opening a second location, but it's a staple at the bottom of the hill.

Taco Bell seems to be taking forever to spread in the maritimes. Freddy has 1 in the mall and that's it. Even when the 2 standalone KFCs were rebuilt, they didn't put any Tacobells in.

[Loco101]

Different culture. Home Hardware at the corporate level is owned by each of the stores and each store has a lot of freedom. Basically it is at network small little hardware stores that can stock what they want and adapt to their customers They know the local neighborhood and what was used when most of the housing stock in that area was built. End result is they hall the odd bits and pieces needed.

That certainly does explain why Home Hardware is still alive. Excellent points!

It's nice to see the stores in places such as Chapleau or Moonbeam where people can actually shop in their own town.

[Loco101]

For chain restaurants in Northern Ontario:

Subway (towns with over 2000 people)
Tim Hortons (towns with over 4000 people but 2000 if on a busy highway)
McDonald's (towns with over 8000 people but 5000 if along a major highway)

KFC has closed a number of locations in towns and I'd now say a place has to have over 7000 people to have one.

[isaidso]

I find it interesting how small towns will often have an A&W, at least on the prairies. Subway and A&W seem to always be the first fast food franchises to come to any small town, usually followed by Tims. Beaverlodge, Alberta population 2,365 has an A&W. Valleyview, Alberta population 1,761 has an A&W.

They're Canada's #2 burger chain after McDonalds with 800+ outlets nationally. They're also independent from A&W in the US and have been since 1972.

[Denscity]

I find it interesting how small towns will often have an A&W, at least on the prairies. Subway and A&W seem to always be the first fast food franchises to come to any small town, usually followed by Tims. Beaverlodge, Alberta population 2,365 has an A&W. Valleyview, Alberta population 1,761 has an A&W.

I've always found that seniors love to hang around and have a coffee in the mornings at small town A&Ws, and even big city ones to some extent. Kind of serves as the de facto coffee shop or Tims in a lot of towns on the prairies.

You nailed it for Castlegar too. Subway A&W then Tims. And A&W being a seniors centre in the mornings. Our McDonald's is kind of an all day seniors meeting place and then it's on to Tims for the evening meetings haha!

[Dwils01]

For chain restaurants in Northern Ontario:

Subway (towns with over 2000 people)
Tim Hortons (towns with over 4000 people but 2000 if on a busy highway)
McDonald's (towns with over 8000 people but 5000 if along a major highway)

KFC has closed a number of locations in towns and I'd now say a place has to have over 7000 people to have one.

Last time I was in Schreiber Ontario they still has a Pizza Hut Express and a KFC Express..

It is mostly A&W and Subway. Marathon, White River have an A&W and Terrace Bay used to have one. Robin's donuts is still popular in this area with White River, Marathon, Schreiber and Nipigon having one while Terrace Bay is the only Country Style I've encountered on the route. Even Tim Horton't is spread out. They have a location in Wawa then the next one is not until Nipigon. Both of these have been built within a decade before that it was only Robins between the Sault and Thunder Bay.

[MonctonRad]

A&W didn't show up until 2000ish, when the town finally got a theatre (the town had a drive-in back in the 80's but for 20 years the only theatre was across the border in Houlton)

Funny you should mention that My sister and brother-in-law used to live in Centreville NB (where he was the United Church minister).

I can clearly remember driving across the border with them when I was a kid visiting them back in 1966 to see the movie Fantastic Voyage with Raquel Welch. :haha:

[manny_santos]

Interesting how common A&W seems to be in smaller communities. For the longest time I remember A&W was very hard to find in some larger cities. In the late 90s in London, there was a standalone location downtown, but other than that it was only found in mall food courts. The downtown location closed in maybe 2001, and for several years it was exclusively a food court restaurant in London. It was maybe around 2005 that standalone A&W restaurants slowly started to appear there.

[MonctonRad]

A&W has been in Charlottetown forever. When I was a kid, they were a traditional drive-in (not drive-thru), complete with food hops in uniforms taking your order and delivering your food to your car and hooking the tray on your car window.

It's amazing how drive-in restaurants and drive-in movie theatres from the 1960's seem rather exotic and nostalgic now........