Canadian Retail Thread

[esquire]

Interesting sidenote about truck stops: There has been an absolute boom in the number of Indo-Canadian truck drivers, at least in Western Canada, over the last 20 years or so. (It is a path to immigration.)

What this has meant is a corresponding boom in truck stops serving various types of Indian cuisine along the major highways. I really noticed it when driving to Banff last summer... you'd see a billboard for a Husky station in Saskatchewan or whatever with some Punjabi words at the bottom.

I didn't get around to trying any of them on that trip, but I would certainly like to in the future. Some of the online reviews were pretty glowing!

[JHikka]

Interesting sidenote about truck stops: There has been an absolute boom in the number of Indo-Canadian truck drivers, at least in Western Canada, over the last 20 years or so. (It is a path to immigration.)

What a weird coincidence - I just found out today that there's a station in Nipigon with a full Punjabi restaurant. I think the vast majority of truckers in ON are South Asian, so makes sense.

[WhipperSnapper]

2/3rds of all truckers in Canada.

[whatnext]

What a weird coincidence - I just found out today that there's a station in Nipigon with a full Punjabi restaurant. I think the vast majority of truckers in ON are South Asian, so makes sense.

And yet so few were on the Trucker Konvoy blockade. it's almost like hey had better things to do, like work! :tup:

[Loco101]

Quebec is somewhat different. The classics like McDonald's, Tim Hortons and Subway are all there, but many others mentioned are largely absent and should be replaced by Thai Express, Sushi Shop, and a number of other Québécois chains.

I've been surprised to see Thai Express at highway exits in small towns far away from major cities.

We have a Sushi Shop in Timmins. Both it and Thai Express are part of the MTY Group of restaurants company. But I bet that a lot of people don't even realize what other restaurant chains are part of that company!

https://mtygroup.com/nos-enseignes/

Among the well known chains:

Mr Sub
Country Style
Bàton Rouge
Cultures
Manchu Wok
Mikes
Mr Souvlaki
Mucho Burrito
Pizza Delight
Scores
TacoTime
Timothy's
Turtle Jack's

And there are more.

Some of the chains that are well known in Quebec:

Allô mon Coco
Ben & Florentine
Café Dépot
Casa Grecque
Jugo Juice
Tutti Frutti
Valentine
Van Houtte
Yuzu Sushi

And many more.

[Loco101]

Irving Big Stops here in the east. :)

To be honest, a Big Stop is a great place to eat if you are looking for large portions of traditional food, or an all day breakfast. I get a hankering about once a month, hopefully not frequently enough to kill me. :haha:

I've eaten at a number of them in the Atlantic provinces enjoy them while travelling. I usually stop at the one in Pembroke ON on the way to Ottawa as it's normally supper time by the time I'm there.

[Loco101]

Interesting sidenote about truck stops: There has been an absolute boom in the number of Indo-Canadian truck drivers, at least in Western Canada, over the last 20 years or so. (It is a path to immigration.)

What this has meant is a corresponding boom in truck stops serving various types of Indian cuisine along the major highways. I really noticed it when driving to Banff last summer... you'd see a billboard for a Husky station in Saskatchewan or whatever with some Punjabi words at the bottom.

I didn't get around to trying any of them on that trip, but I would certainly like to in the future. Some of the online reviews were pretty glowing!

I did notice the one in Nipigon. There is also one West of Thunder Bay in a remote area. I think it was near Upsala. During this pandemic, many of the restaurants along that stretch of Hwy 17 have had drastically reduced hours or weren't even open at all. But we noticed that the Punjabi one was open late and had lots of transport trucks parked at it. I'll see if I can find it on Google...

Here it is and it's in Savanne, not Upsala:

https://goo.gl/maps/mAAMLLHQJWBkuVpRA

There is also an Esso gas station with an LCBO agency store and a big moose head inside. The convenience store has a nice selection of Indian snack foods.

I've also noticed that Punjabi and other Indian dishes are available at a number of restaurants along truck routes even in remote areas. Normally the owner and/or the cooks are of Indian background but not always.

[zahav]

I never saw a Thai Express anywhere but in a food court until I was in Nova Scotia and there was a standalone one at a gas station on the highway. I was definitely surprised, but then looked it up when I got home and saw it wasn't as rare as I thought. Out in BC you don't see it at truck stops.

The late entry of Tim's in BC is true, up until 2000 there were no Tim's in Richmond BC at all, which was a decent size city in Metro Van. But after 2000 the explosion started and we experienced what it was like in other parts of the country. But until 2000 it was still quite rare. We were major Starbucks territory due to the culture and proximity to Seattle. In the 90s, Tim Hortons didn't factor into our culture here whatsoever, it was 100% Sbux. Is Sbux equal to Tim's in most places in Canada, or is Tim's bigger in smaller centres?

[esquire]

The late entry of Tim's in BC is true, up until 2000 there were no Tim's in Richmond BC at all, which was a decent size city in Metro Van. But after 2000 the explosion started and we experienced what it was like in other parts of the country. But until 2000 it was still quite rare. We were major Starbucks territory due to the culture and proximity to Seattle. In the 90s, Tim Hortons didn't factor into our culture here whatsoever, it was 100% Sbux. Is Sbux equal to Tim's in most places in Canada, or is Tim's bigger in smaller centres?

In Man/Sask, Starbucks doesn't really exist outside of the larger centres. Once you get outside Winnipeg/Regina/Saskatoon, Starbucks locations are pretty rare. I've seen standalone locations in Brandon and Swift Current, and maybe a couple in other places attached to supermarkets. Nowhere near as common in the smaller locales as Tim Hortons even though neither chain has had a significant presence here all that long (mid 90s for Tims, late 90s for Starbucks).

[casper]

In Man/Sask, Starbucks doesn't really exist outside of the larger centres. Once you get outside Winnipeg/Regina/Saskatoon, Starbucks locations are pretty rare. I've seen standalone locations in Brandon and Swift Current, and maybe a couple in other places attached to supermarkets. Nowhere near as common in the smaller locales as Tim Hortons even though neither chain has had a significant presence here all that long (mid 90s for Tims, late 90s for Starbucks).

Growing up in Vancouver until the 90s there was a host of donut chains. Most were fairly small. Hole In One. Robin's Donuts etc. Not certain if any of these are still around.

My first experience with a donut place in Saskatoon was early 2000. The smoking laws were you could be smoke free or free for all. There was on on 2nd ave that was all smoking. You could not see the menu due to how thick the smoke was. That was later replaced with a Burmese restaurant.

[esquire]

Growing up in Vancouver until the 90s there was a host of donut chains. Most were fairly small. Hole In One. Robin's Donuts etc. Not certain if any of these are still around.

My first experience with a donut place in Saskatoon was early 2000. The smoking laws were you could be smoke free or free for all. There was on on 2nd ave that was all smoking. You could not see the menu due to how thick the smoke was. That was later replaced with a Burmese restaurant.

Robins Donuts was the kingpin of donut shops on the prairies during the 80s. Their particular style of architecture with narrow windows meant the locations somehow seemed dark and dingy even in the broad daylight. I seldom ever went into one when I was a kid but my memories are mainly of thick smoke and always seeing guys inside who looked like either cops or robbers :haha:

Robin's got shredded by Tim's huge marketing budgets in the 90s and 00s. They didn't last long in the face of the onslaught.

I remember going to Vancouver for the 1999 Grey Cup at BC Place and Tim's was a big sponsor of the game... by then they were well entrenched in Manitoba so I didn't think too much of it. But my Vancouver friend I was at the game with pointed out that you had to drive to Burnaby or some other inland locale to get to the nearest Tim's location. They had no Vancouver presence at the time. Hard to believe now.

[WhipperSnapper]

There was a local Coffee Time on every corner in Toronto. It's probably a major reason why Tim Hortons didn't start an aggressive push into the city until the 2000s. Before that was kiosks in gas and grocery stores. Coffee Time must have closed over 300 locations since.

[thewave46]

Tim Hortons just eviscerated most of the competition in Ontario.

Only a handful of Country Style, Robin's, and Coffee Time locations remain in places Tim's deems unworthy of the effort.

[Acajack]

I can remember when Québécois used to make fun of Ontarians and even ROCers in general, for their Timmies obsession.

That was before people here got hooked as well.

No one makes those jokes in Quebec anymore.

Timmies Über Alles.

(I still say there is some type of addictive drug in that coffee.)

[esquire]

It feels like the Tim's thing peaked roughly around 2010. Obviously they're still around but the "mania" for it is gone. It's more of a secret shame type of purchase rather than the point of pride it was for many 15-20 years ago.

[thewave46]

It feels like the Tim's thing peaked roughly around 2010. Obviously they're still around but the "mania" for it is gone. It's more of a secret shame type of purchase rather than the point of pride it was for many 15-20 years ago.

Eh, it's just an ordinary thing now instead of a mark of pride.

Maybe it's a secret shame for some uppity types, but it's more in the McD's category of background noise for the rest of the country.

Similarly, Starbucks isn't the uppity place it used to be either, once places like Sudbury, Brandon, Prince Albert, and Timmins got locations.

[esquire]

Eh, it's just an ordinary thing now instead of a mark of pride.

Maybe it's a secret shame for some uppity types, but it's more in the McD's category of background noise for the rest of the country.

Similarly, Starbucks isn't the uppity place it used to be either, once places like Sudbury, Brandon, Prince Albert, and Timmins got locations.

20 years ago Starbucks was the place for coffee snobs to go, but they have all moved on... I didn't think it was Starbucks' presence in smaller places (who cares about that?) so much as it was the emergence of more innovative competition.

My impression from my own social circles is that Starbucks' bread and butter is mostly middle class, middle aged people who came of age during Starbucks' glory days.

[MonctonRad]

It feels like the Tim's thing peaked roughly around 2010. Obviously they're still around but the "mania" for it is gone. It's more of a secret shame type of purchase rather than the point of pride it was for many 15-20 years ago.

Maybe is the ownership was Canadian rather than Brazilian there would be more pride.

Maybe if they still made their donuts daily on site with a guarantee of freshness there would be more pride.

Maybe if they had a stable wholesome menu limited to soups, chile and sandwiches rather than always chasing something new there would be more pride.

Tim Horton's is a shell of it's former self. I virtually never go there any more. Not even if I am looking for a coffee on a road trip.

[esquire]

I actually don't mind Tim's. It serves its purpose... cheap, fast and reasonably good. But I don't think I will ever go back to my pre-covid routine of buying a coffee there every morning on the way to the office.

[WhipperSnapper]

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in ownership. Tim Horton's corporate decisions are made in Canada.

[casper]

Maybe is the ownership was Canadian rather than Brazilian there would be more pride.

Maybe if they still made their donuts daily on site with a guarantee of freshness there would be more pride.

Maybe if they had a stable wholesome menu limited to soups, chile and sandwiches rather than always chasing something new there would be more pride.

Tim Horton's is a shell of it's former self. I virtually never go there any more. Not even if I am looking for a coffee on a road trip.

I am ok with the menu. I was in there yesterday morning (for the first time in months).

What I don't like is their "always fresh" strategy. Always Fresh all day basically means removing it from the freezer and baking it a special microwave/convection oven contraption multiple times during the day.

They lost me as a regular customer when they stopped actually baking in store.

[jamincan]

Tim Horton's is a shell of it's former self. I virtually never go there any more. Not even if I am looking for a coffee on a road trip.

It's interesting to me that while Tim Horton's seems to have been rather aimless, Popeye's seem to be experiencing a resurgence (not without reason either). I suppose if RBI throws enough darts at a board, they're bound to hit the bullseye once.

Tim Horton's seem to suffer from market researchers controlling their menus: "last month, focus groups reacted very positively to Nutella ergo let me barf out Nutella all over our menu; this month we had a huge Justin Bieber fan in our focus group, so now we're going to pivot our brand to be all things Bieber; men from 25-34 showed a 2 point increase in their reported enjoyment of disgusting fake hazelnut chemical syrup, so lets massively promote that."

[Denscity]

Tims is most famous for coffee and donuts but both are terrible. Like Bud to beer.
But don't mind their breakfast offerings.

[MonctonRad]

Tim Horton's seem to suffer from market researchers controlling their menus: "last month, focus groups reacted very positively to Nutella ergo let me barf out Nutella all over our menu; this month we had a huge Justin Bieber fan in our focus group, so now we're going to pivot our brand to be all things Bieber; men from 25-34 showed a 2 point increase in their reported enjoyment of disgusting fake hazelnut chemical syrup, so lets massively promote that."

Much truth in this.

I would much prefer a more stable predictable menu selection. Timmies should concentrate on a good quality selection of breakfast and lunch options and high quality donuts and pastries. I do not need or want the "new item of the week"

I have heard as well, that the constant changing of menu items has led to worker stress since they are constantly being retrained in how to prepare the items. Some of them can't cope and quit.

Most fast food places (McDonald's, Burger King) have a predictable menu. Sure, they occasionally bring in a novelty specialty burger to draw in customers and create some excitement, but this is not at the expense of their regular menu, and does not result in ongoing chaos for their workers.

[YYCguys]

In Man/Sask, Starbucks doesn't really exist outside of the larger centres. Once you get outside Winnipeg/Regina/Saskatoon, Starbucks locations are pretty rare. I've seen standalone locations in Brandon and Swift Current, and maybe a couple in other places attached to supermarkets. Nowhere near as common in the smaller locales as Tim Hortons even though neither chain has had a significant presence here all that long (mid 90s for Tims, late 90s for Starbucks).

Is Starbucks inside Safeway stores a standard feature nowadays? I don’t shop in Safeways other than my local store, which has one, and is in a small city-burb of Calgary, so I can’t speak to other locations. Wondering if Safeways in Sask and Man have them?

[manny_santos]

There was a local Coffee Time on every corner in Toronto. It's probably a major reason why Tim Hortons didn't start an aggressive push into the city until the 2000s. Before that was kiosks in gas and grocery stores. Coffee Time must have closed over 300 locations since.

I went to a Coffee Time in Kitchener in 2007. Their “Iced Cappuccino” was terrible compared to both Tim Hortons and the independent coffee shop in London I worked for at the time. It was mostly ice cubes.

I remember Robin’s Donuts suddenly re-appeared in Scarborough one day in 2017, on Ellesmere Road. No idea if that has lasted.

[manny_santos]

I never saw a Thai Express anywhere but in a food court until I was in Nova Scotia and there was a standalone one at a gas station on the highway. I was definitely surprised, but then looked it up when I got home and saw it wasn't as rare as I thought. Out in BC you don't see it at truck stops.

The late entry of Tim's in BC is true, up until 2000 there were no Tim's in Richmond BC at all, which was a decent size city in Metro Van. But after 2000 the explosion started and we experienced what it was like in other parts of the country. But until 2000 it was still quite rare. We were major Starbucks territory due to the culture and proximity to Seattle. In the 90s, Tim Hortons didn't factor into our culture here whatsoever, it was 100% Sbux. Is Sbux equal to Tim's in most places in Canada, or is Tim's bigger in smaller centres?

In Ontario, Starbucks is rare to see in smaller centres, though they’ve added towns like Strathroy in recent years. Tim Hortons is far more common in Ontario, particularly in smaller communities; some of the smaller communities near London have Tim Hortons as their only coffee shop. Even in suburban areas of London, Tim Hortons is the only coffee shop in the neighbourhood, particularly Lambeth and Byron.

Now that I’ve lived in BC for several years, it’s a cultural shock to see the dominance of Tim Hortons every time I’m back in the London area.

[casper]

Is Starbucks inside Safeway stores a standard feature nowadays? I don’t shop in Safeways other than my local store, which has one, and is in a small city-burb of Calgary, so I can’t speak to other locations. Wondering if Safeways in Sask and Man have them?

That was a partnership that was created long before Sobey's purchased Safeway. Many of the Safeway stores in Vancouver have the Starbucks.

On Vancouver Island, the competition people blocked Safeway going to Sobeys due to the high concentration of Thrifty Foods. So many of Safeway stores on the Island were sold to Save-On-Foods. Those Safeway's retained the Starbucks counter even after going to Save On.

[esquire]

Is Starbucks inside Safeway stores a standard feature nowadays? I don’t shop in Safeways other than my local store, which has one, and is in a small city-burb of Calgary, so I can’t speak to other locations. Wondering if Safeways in Sask and Man have them?

It was pretty common in MB/SK at one point, but I guess a lot of the in-store Starbucks weren't doing that well because the number has been dramatically scaled back in recent years. At least in Winnipeg. There are still some left but not as many as before. Not 100% sure but I think some other chains may have them too, like Save-On?

Like I said, some (but not all) smaller cities have their only Starbucks locations in Safeway/Sobeys locations.

[manny_santos]

this month we had a huge Justin Bieber fan in our focus group, so now we're going to pivot our brand to be all things Bieber; men from 25-34 showed a 2 point increase in their reported enjoyment of disgusting fake hazelnut chemical syrup, so lets massively promote that."

I was in California recently, and saw a kid wearing a Tim Biebs hat on an Amtrak train south of San Jose. It was a very random thing to see.

[manny_santos]

That was a partnership that was created long before Sobey's purchased Safeway. Many of the Safeway stores in Vancouver have the Starbucks.

On Vancouver Island, the competition people blocked Safeway going to Sobeys due to the high concentration of Thrifty Foods. So many of Safeway stores on the Island were sold to Save-On-Foods. Those Safeway's retained the Starbucks counter even after going to Save On.

This also happened in New Westminster. There used to be a Safeway at Royal City Centre, but Save-on-Foods took it over maybe 8-10 years ago. There is still a Starbucks kiosk inside.

Prior to about 2014, Safeway/Sobeys had a near-monopoly in New West - there were three Safeways, a Thrifty Foods, and an IGA (which is not owned by Sobeys in BC, at least nowadays). One of the Safeways, the IGA, and the Thrifty Foods all became Save-on-Foods. To this day we have no Loblaws-owned store, not counting Shoppers Drug Mart.

[niwell]

Most of Tim's marketing campaigns seem like flops but I would say they did nail it with the TimBiebs thing. Regardless of your thoughts on Bieber it seemed extremely popular and I did hear people talk about it / see lots of branded stuff around. I even tried them, which was the first time I'd been in a Tim Horton's in some time (though to be fair it was while driving).

[Denscity]

Our one Safeway has our one Starbucks inside of it.

[MonctonRad]

They seem to be rolling out Starbucks in Superstores (Loblaws) here in NB.

[JonHiseler]

They seem to be rolling out Starbucks in Superstores (Loblaws) here in NB.

They started putting them in the ones in Halifax last year, and now are starting to put them in ones outside of the HRM. At the same time, they did close some of their other locations, like the one on Barrington and the one on Quinpool, as well as no longer being in Chapters stores.

[TownGuy]

They're really going to have to drastically improve their quality if they have any hope of succeeding in BC. A&W is a lot more dominant here than in Ontario, and Triple O's/White Spot needs no introduction. If they're still relying on cold, overcooked, and dried out burgers as part of their strategy, they won't be in BC for very long.

If they can bring back the Harvey's of the 90s and 2000s, then they'll have a hope.

I had never heard of Triple O's until a couple weeks ago. I saw one opened up around here with a new gas station. Thought maybe it was a US brand I hadn't heard of so I did a little Google search and found out it's Canadian!

[esquire]

I didn't know White Spot/Triple O's had made it to Ontario. Farthest east I'd seen them before was Edmonton.

[whatnext]

Our one Safeway has our one Starbucks inside of it.

Y'all getting world class now. :P

[JHikka]

Most of Tim's marketing campaigns seem like flops but I would say they did nail it with the TimBiebs thing. Regardless of your thoughts on Bieber it seemed extremely popular and I did hear people talk about it / see lots of branded stuff around. I even tried them, which was the first time I'd been in a Tim Horton's in some time (though to be fair it was while driving).

TimBiebs was one of, if not their best, marketing campaigns ever, IIRC.

I didn't know White Spot/Triple O's had made it to Ontario. Farthest east I'd seen them before was Edmonton.
Found one in Colborne of all places. It was fine.

[TownGuy]

Found one in Colborne of all places. It was fine.

That's the one that I saw.

I believe the only other chain in Colborne is a Tim Hortons.

[jamincan]

It was pretty common in MB/SK at one point, but I guess a lot of the in-store Starbucks weren't doing that well because the number has been dramatically scaled back in recent years. At least in Winnipeg. There are still some left but not as many as before. Not 100% sure but I think some other chains may have them too, like Save-On?

My local Zehrs has a Starbucks kiosk as well, so it sounds like it isn't an exclusive business relationship.

[Djeffery]

TimBiebs was one of, if not their best, marketing campaigns ever, IIRC.


I had Tim Biebs almost every time I went there, which is usually a weekend breakfast thing for us. Instead of a muffin or cookies, I got those instead. I liked them in a junky snack sort of way. The Tims I go to has a McDonalds at the other end of the parking lot, and if I want an actual breakfast sandwich, I go to McD's for a Sausage Egg McMuffin and I prefer their hashbrowns to Tims as well. At Tims for breakfast, I get a bagel with cream cheese. Bagel places are rare around here now, the odd Great Canadian Bagel shop and maybe some local ones I never hear about. We used to have a small chain back in the 90's called Zally's. The reminded of Einsteins Bagels that I had in Florida a few years ago. One of those was a meal itself.

[Djeffery]

My local Zehrs has a Starbucks kiosk as well, so it sounds like it isn't an exclusive business relationship.

The last cruise we went on several years ago, my wife was happy to see the ship had a Starbucks on it.

[cslusarc]

My local Safeway @ River East Plaza (in Winnipeg) lost its Starbuck this spring about 10 years after they enlarged the store and redeveloped the micro-mall.

[Denscity]

Y'all getting world class now. :P

You know it!
Once we get our first Wendy's we will truly be a top international destination!

[Loco101]

Eh, it's just an ordinary thing now instead of a mark of pride.

Maybe it's a secret shame for some uppity types, but it's more in the McD's category of background noise for the rest of the country.

Similarly, Starbucks isn't the uppity place it used to be either, once places like Sudbury, Brandon, Prince Albert, and Timmins got locations.

Sudbury has had Starbucks since at least 1999 and the only location there up until a few years ago was in the Chapters store. Timmins has had a Starbucks for only a few years. Many people here predicted that it wouldn't last but it has been very busy and I'm hearing of plans to open a larger location with a drive-thru.

[Loco101]

Maybe is the ownership was Canadian rather than Brazilian there would be more pride.

Maybe if they still made their donuts daily on site with a guarantee of freshness there would be more pride.

Maybe if they had a stable wholesome menu limited to soups, chile and sandwiches rather than always chasing something new there would be more pride.

Tim Horton's is a shell of it's former self. I virtually never go there any more. Not even if I am looking for a coffee on a road trip.

I feel exactly the same way. We both live in cities with a very high number of Tim's per capita.

[Loco101]

Is Starbucks inside Safeway stores a standard feature nowadays? I don’t shop in Safeways other than my local store, which has one, and is in a small city-burb of Calgary, so I can’t speak to other locations. Wondering if Safeways in Sask and Man have them?

The safeway locations in Northwestern Ontario I've been to all have Starbucks in them. That includes Kenora, Dryden, Fort Frances and Thunder Bay.

[manny_santos]

I had Tim Biebs almost every time I went there, which is usually a weekend breakfast thing for us. Instead of a muffin or cookies, I got those instead. I liked them in a junky snack sort of way. The Tims I go to has a McDonalds at the other end of the parking lot, and if I want an actual breakfast sandwich, I go to McD's for a Sausage Egg McMuffin and I prefer their hashbrowns to Tims as well. At Tims for breakfast, I get a bagel with cream cheese. Bagel places are rare around here now, the odd Great Canadian Bagel shop and maybe some local ones I never hear about. We used to have a small chain back in the 90's called Zally's. The reminded of Einsteins Bagels that I had in Florida a few years ago. One of those was a meal itself.

I remember Zally’s, they had locations all over London in the mid-90s. They were really good, they had a huge selection of cream cheeses too.

Tim Hortons introduced bagels in 1996, and many of the Zally’s closed within two years after. I recall Masonville Place still had one for a few more years, I think it was still there as late as 2006.

[SpongeG]

All the Safeways here in BC have Starbucks inside them, a few Save-On-Foods also have Starbucks inside them. Most of them do not work for pre-ordering with the ap.

[SpongeG]

Location, location: Why Edmonton is preferred by U.S. chains making their Canadian debut

Dickey's Barbecue Pit opened its first Canadian location in Edmonton on Thursday
Kashmala Fida Mohatarem, Ariel Fournier · CBC · Posted: May 01, 2022

https://i.cbc.ca/1.6432911.1651083779!/fileImage/httpImage/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/dickey-s-barbecue-pit.JPG
Dickey's Barbecue Pit, a restaurant chain based in Dallas, opened its first Canadian location in Edmonton on Thursday. (Trevor Wilson/ CBC Edmonton)

188 comments

Alberta's capital city is known for many things — a giant mall, a gorgeous river valley and a pretty successful NHL franchise.

You can add to that list Edmonton's appeal as a testing ground for U.S. chain stores and restaurants looking to expand into the Canadian market.

Dickey's Barbecue Pit, a popular Texas-based chain restaurant that opened its first Canadian location in Edmonton on Thursday, is one of a few major American chains that have eyed the Alberta city for expansion.

In December, American convenience store chain 7-Eleven opened a licenced location in north Edmonton that includes a dining area for liquor consumption on the premises.

California Pizza Kitchen, meanwhile, has said it will open its first Canadian location in south Edmonton sometime this year.

Industry experts say the city's population demographics, eating habits, affordability and even the presence of a giant mall are factors in attracting businesses keen to test the taste buds of Canadians.

"Edmonton is a very good place to start because you limit your risk and you get a good market test," Ziad Kaddoura, a franchise consultant based in Edmonton, told CBC's Edmonton AM.

He said the city is a great place to figure out whether companies are up to the challenge of introducing a franchise in Canada with the least amount of damage in case their venture fails.

"And it's not as saturated as other markets," he said. "So I think it ticks all the right boxes."

...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/location-location-why-edmonton-is-preferred-by-u-s-chains-making-their-canadian-debut-1.6432465

[WhipperSnapper]

mmm ... Texas barbeque

[Airboy]

All the Safeways here in BC have Starbucks inside them, a few Save-On-Foods also have Starbucks inside them. Most of them do not work for pre-ordering with the ap.

Most Safeways here have Starbucks but the Saveons do not have any coffee place.

[JHikka]

Location, location: Why Edmonton is preferred by U.S. chains making their Canadian debut

Will remember this the next time someone wants to claim Toronto is filled with wannabe Americans. :P

[Coldrsx]

IKEA Announces Toronto Downtown Store Opening Date

The Swedish home furnishings retailer will open its 66,000 sq. ft. downtown location, a first to Canada concept with a new food concept added as well.

https://www.linkedin.com/company/retail-insider/?miniCompanyUrn=urn%3Ali%3Afs_miniCompany%3A3677571&lipi=urn%3Ali%3Apage%3Ad_flagship3_feed%3BhpwNjsrNR0m%2FdI%2BDB9Dwzw%3D%3D&licu=urn%3Ali%3Acontrol%3Ad_flagship3_feed-actor_container&lici=uFh1spZixDMv%2FvTNmSTJxQ%3D%3D

[MonctonRad]

Also, Simons has officially announced their 17th store at the Halifax Shopping Centre in Halifax. It will be part of a $57M reconstruction of the former Eatons/Sears store at the mall. Opening will be in spring 2024.

I'm surprised q12 has not announced it here. He has already posted in the Halifax subforum about it.

[Airboy]

Most Safeways here have Starbucks but the Saveons do not have any coffee place.

So an update, Starbucks are clearing out of the Safeways here now.

[casper]

IKEA Announces Toronto Downtown Store Opening Date

The Swedish home furnishings retailer will open its 66,000 sq. ft. downtown location, a first to Canada concept with a new food concept added as well.

https://www.linkedin.com/company/retail-insider/?miniCompanyUrn=urn%3Ali%3Afs_miniCompany%3A3677571&lipi=urn%3Ali%3Apage%3Ad_flagship3_feed%3BhpwNjsrNR0m%2FdI%2BDB9Dwzw%3D%3D&licu=urn%3Ali%3Acontrol%3Ad_flagship3_feed-actor_container&lici=uFh1spZixDMv%2FvTNmSTJxQ%3D%3D

Disappointed the article does not answer the critical question everyone has. Will it have hot food. Ikea meatballs in downtown Toronto would be ideal. If they do a campaign needs to be organized to bring the concept to Vancouver. No meatballs, then it is ok if Toronto is the only location.

At the end they mentioned that Ikea had a deal with Penguin Pickup. Interesting concept. I wonder how well the Penguin locations do give the relative large size of many of the Ikea products.

[Djeffery]

Disappointed the article does not answer the critical question everyone has. Will it have hot food. Ikea meatballs in downtown Toronto would be ideal. If they do a campaign needs to be organized to bring the concept to Vancouver. No meatballs, then it is ok if Toronto is the only location.

At the end they mentioned that Ikea had a deal with Penguin Pickup. Interesting concept. I wonder how well the Penguin locations do give the relative large size of many of the Ikea products.

I ordered a couple tables from IKEA last year and had them held for pickup at a company called "Custom Delivery" in London. That location was just a few blocks away from where the IKEA Pick-Up Point store was before they closed them all, in a plaza that has a Brick and a Bad Boy and a few other large stores. I can't imagine rent was cheap there. Now they have moved to the former Sears warehouse in the south London industrial park, so not sure how well that location would do for IKEA now (although it is only about a mile away from where the full scale IKEA store was supposed to be built). If they are offering Penguin Pickup (as well as, or instead of), I think they have a location in the Walmart Supercentre big box plaza in north London, closer to the university.

[urbandreamer]

I noticed Odds & Ends on Queen St W of Bathurst has closed. I used to live a few doors down the street and never figured out how that old man made a living.

[casper]

I ordered a couple tables from IKEA last year and had them held for pickup at a company called "Custom Delivery" in London. That location was just a few blocks away from where the IKEA Pick-Up Point store was before they closed them all, in a plaza that has a Brick and a Bad Boy and a few other large stores. I can't imagine rent was cheap there. Now they have moved to the former Sears warehouse in the south London industrial park, so not sure how well that location would do for IKEA now (although it is only about a mile away from where the full scale IKEA store was supposed to be built). If they are offering Penguin Pickup (as well as, or instead of), I think they have a location in the Walmart Supercentre big box plaza in north London, closer to the university.

Penguin Pickup is owned by Smart REIT. When your parent company owns the shopping complex and your building on a pad in the parking lot, rent is less of an issue.

There more recent concept locations have been co-branded with Walmart complete with Walmart kiosks going into downtown Toronto. Most of their locations are setup for average size e-commerce packages. I don't think they can handle a large volume of furniture.

[WhipperSnapper]

SmartREIT never own the shops at Aura (assuming opening a new location here) and i'm pretty sure some of the strategic pick up locations aren't in smartreit properties.. Anyways, This was owned by Kingsett Capital which sold it to Ikea's parent company. It will be renamed the Ingka Centre at Aura. Maybe an opportunity for the floundering retail condo in the basement to cut their losses.

[casper]

SmartREIT never own the shops at Aura (assuming opening a new location here) and i'm pretty sure some of the strategic pick up locations aren't in smartreit properties.. Anyways, This was owned by Kingsett Capital which sold it to Ikea's parent company. It will be renamed the Ingka Centre at Aura. Maybe an opportunity for the floundering retail condo in the basement to cut their losses.

The more recent Penguin Pickups have ventured off SmartREIT properties. Especially the downtown Toronto ones.

Co-branding the downtown Toronto Penguin Pickup with Walmart was driven by Walmart wanting to gain a stronger presence in the urban core.

[esquire]

Also, Simons has officially announced their 17th store at the Halifax Shopping Centre in Halifax. It will be part of a $57M reconstruction of the former Eatons/Sears store at the mall. Opening will be in spring 2024.

Simons is a nice store, it kind of reminds me a bit of department stores in Europe and Asia where they still actually try. Unlike the The Bay which threw in the towel a decade ago, and Eaton's which pretty much gave up when Mulroney was Prime Minister.

[Coldrsx]

^Agreed. Simons is a great store that can cater to a wide demographic and is destination store for many. A coup.

[davidivivid]

In september, The Bay will close its 150 000 sq ft Laurier store in Quebec City, which means it will only have one store left in Quebec, the one at Galeries de la Capitale, which it revamped a few years ago.

In a very related news, a company based in the city just agreed to buy 50% of the Laurier mall from Ivanoe Cambridge for $309M. The plan is to invest a Billion dollars over the next 10 years to triple the surface area of the property to integrate up to 2000 new housing units for families, seniors and students as well as hotels and office space.

The first tower to go up will be on the parking lot on the corner of Hochelaga and Jean-De Quen. The Bay store, which is the building covered in brown bricks, will be demolished next.

The empty lots situated on the upper left belong to the Federal government. It used to house military families. The city is hungrily eying these lots since it would be perfect for dense housing.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgWHdpNERrqt5Qn7oI9uLNY7LH1cY971FrCY-C1Wqs4JDgEW_WfGxt2DSaXaExnEjeM9DeYGE0x3lGm25UwW0Ddlt80LOceAkI9VS2pwIB1YWKTyQ84u46vileiLeoyHKGA-wZBmdX2naCcZjGCPFoAiWfOyROqrwxy8Y3aI6A9sFRAr6UWWg2uU24q/s1574/laurier.png

https://www.journaldequebec.com/2022/07/21/laurier-va-tripler-sa-superficie

[Acajack]

I am not sure that The Bay "in general" is long for this world.

Very surprised that their store at Les Promenades Gatineau hasn't closed yet. It's not totally dead in terms of customers, but I really doubt there is enough business to keep such a large store afloat.

[J.OT13]

I am not sure that The Bay "in general" is long for this world.

Very surprised that their store at Les Promenades Gatineau hasn't closed yet. It's not totally dead in terms of customers, but I really doubt there is enough business to keep such a large store afloat.

Surprised none of them closed in the NCR as of yet. We have five? Place d'Orleans, St. Laurent, Rideau, Bayshore and Les Promenades.

Sears stores are slowly being filled. The one at Rideau was bought out before it failed, replaced with Nordstrom (and a new food court) in 2014. Gallerie de Hull has been replaced with an EconoFitness and Aubainerie. Carlingwood store was demolished and is being replaced by a mega Canadian Tire and Urban Behavior (Behaviour?) will soon be taking over part of the old store at St. Laurent after 4+ years of being empty, with the occasional Halloween Spirit or other pop-up stores using a fraction of the space at times.

[cslusarc]

Retail Insider reports that Hudson's Bay will close its store at Lauruer Québec. (https://retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2022/08/laurier-quebec-shopping-centre-in-quebec-city-to-be-redeveloped-hudsons-bay-store-to-close-in-september/#)

[Coldrsx]

Edmonton - Downtown retail struggles

https://retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2022/08/downtown-edmonton-retail-struggling-amid-new-developments-and-shifting-dynamics-feature-story-interviews/

[manny_santos]

I am not sure that The Bay "in general" is long for this world.

Very surprised that their store at Les Promenades Gatineau hasn't closed yet. It's not totally dead in terms of customers, but I really doubt there is enough business to keep such a large store afloat.

I’ve been to the one at Guildford Town Centre in Surrey once or twice in recent months - that location seems to be doing well.

[manny_santos]

Some Zellers nostalgia, courtesy of Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/londonontario/comments/wernqy/zellers_westmount_mall_2007/

[SpongeG]

I’ve been to the one at Guildford Town Centre in Surrey once or twice in recent months - that location seems to be doing well.

Yeah its not too bad, they have brought in a good selection of brands popular with the social media set and they have some niche beauty brands. They've been doing well out here keeping the stores well stocked and with popular brands. The Langley store is quite good too. Maybe they are ignoring some markets in other parts of the country?

[esquire]

I am not sure that The Bay "in general" is long for this world.

Very surprised that their store at Les Promenades Gatineau hasn't closed yet. It's not totally dead in terms of customers, but I really doubt there is enough business to keep such a large store afloat.

The Bay is down to two stores in Winnipeg... Polo Park is the "main" store but there is still the one at St. Vital which is kind of a vestige from when they used to be in several suburban malls as a supplement to their flagship downtown store. The St. Vital store was always kind of weak with a sparse selection. It looks like they don't really try there and frankly I'm surprised it's still open... I doubt it will be for much longer.

[Nathan]

The Bay is down to two stores in Winnipeg... Polo Park is the "main" store but there is still the one at St. Vital which is kind of a vestige from when they used to be in several suburban malls as a supplement to their flagship downtown store. The St. Vital store was always kind of weak with a sparse selection. It looks like they don't really try there and frankly I'm surprised it's still open... I doubt it will be for much longer.

They don't really try at their downtown Regina store either. The Basement level is closed, the outside doors remain locked (only entry is via the mall), on the main floor they basically have 4 different tiles due to sloppy repairs/replacements, the display windows facing the street are incredibly depressing.

At this point, it's basically on part with Walmart as far as aesthetics go. That comparison might be a touch harsh, but not completely inaccurate.

[esquire]

They don't really try at their downtown Regina store either. The Basement level is closed, the outside doors remain locked (only entry is via the mall), on the main floor they basically have 4 different tiles due to sloppy repairs/replacements, the display windows facing the street are incredibly depressing.

At this point, it's basically on part with Walmart as far as aesthetics go. That comparison might be a touch harsh, but not completely inaccurate.

Has The Bay renovated any stores outside of Toronto and maybe Montreal and Vancouver in this century?

Even the Polo Park store in Winnipeg is only in decent shape because Sears put a pile of money into renovating it for its short lived "eatons" chain. The Bay took over after that fell apart and they have just been coasting on that, although it's starting to look tired after 20 years.

[J.OT13]

Has The Bay renovated any stores outside of Toronto and maybe Montreal and Vancouver in this century?

The interior of the Rideau Street location in Ottawa was renovated, but to me it seems pretty bland and sterile. They also cleaned-up the Rideau Street façade and opened-up some windows to the street. Nothing has been done to the terrible George Street façade facing the ByWard Market.

We've heard rumours that they are planning to redevelop the Rideau store in a similar fashion to Vancouver and Montreal. No official proposal yet.

Rideau's HBC was built and owned by local department store Freiman's until they were baught out by HBC in 1972. It's a nice enough looking early 20th Century building, seen here before the renovations.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Freimans.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freimans

What's interesting though is that the Chapters next door (originally a Woolworth) is moving to the Rideau Centre across the street after 26 years at their current location. Wondering if that building may be in the development plans.

[cslusarc]

Speaking of The Bay @ St Vital in Winnipeg.
1. Its a gold tier store (or was in 2020);
2. It was sparsely merchandised on my previous visits this year when compared to pre-pandemic time;
3. It has permanently locked its North-West door facing London Drugs and Sears. In today's environment does a department store really need 3 seperate ground floor exterier entrances in addition to ap mall entrance?

[SpongeG]

I was at the Metrotown Bay today, it had a decent flow of customers, small line up at the cashiers. The overall store has not been renovated but it is constantly changing and updated with new things, such as there is now an EQ3 section. They have a little section for TYPO which is a brand from Australia, which is like trendy stationary and youth oriented things like mugs, socks, decor etc. Overall the store is nicely merchandised and without a gut renovation is ok.

[Harrison]

Speaking of The Bay @ St Vital in Winnipeg.
1. Its a gold tier store (or was in 2020)

Is there a list somewhere of the Bay's 'gold tier' stores? I'd be interested to see how they categorize all of their stores in Canada.

[Truenorth00]

Edmonton - Downtown retail struggles

https://retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2022/08/downtown-edmonton-retail-struggling-amid-new-developments-and-shifting-dynamics-feature-story-interviews/

Retail is struggling everywhere. And in general, it's because we have way too much retail space in North America. In an era of extremely high land values, stagnating wages and low cost e-commerce, it's getting harder for traditional retail to compete. That is why we see dead malls everywhere.

https://i.insider.com/5bb37815ac0a6314735194e8?width=750&format=jpeg&auto=webp

Downtown retail is going to be toast in a lot of cities. The rents are nuts. And without the foot traffic, it's just not justifiable.

[Loco101]

We're definitely in a retail and restaurant recession right now. And it may get much worse. The main reasons are competition from online retailers, rising costs of operation and worker shortages. The pandemic was rough but the other issues are causing more trouble.

[theman23]

Has The Bay renovated any stores outside of Toronto and maybe Montreal and Vancouver in this century?

I don’t even think the Montreal location is renovated.

[Truenorth00]

We're definitely in a retail and restaurant recession right now. And it may get much worse. The main reasons are competition from online retailers, rising costs of operation and worker shortages. The pandemic was rough but the other issues are causing more trouble.

There's actually a bifurcation of retail happening. Somewhat driven by wealth inequality. But also driven by the growth of e-commerce. So the top malls are actually seeing their revenues per square foot go up. The rest are often in a slow and steady decline. Which is why so many are often targeted for redevelopment. At some point, many of them reach the point where the underlying land is worth more redeveloped for housing and office space than a revenue generator for the mall REIT that owns them.
Good video explaining this here:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/video/gerald-storch-says-the-death-of-retail-has-been-grossly-exaggerated~1397713.amp.html?jwsource=cl

[thewave46]

We're definitely in a retail and restaurant recession right now. And it may get much worse. The main reasons are competition from online retailers, rising costs of operation and worker shortages. The pandemic was rough but the other issues are causing more trouble.

Eh, the Retail Apocalypse has been going on for awhile. Multiple major retailers have struggled since 2008. The over-retailed thing has come to haunt us. It probably will for awhile, because the one’s ability to consume the sheer amount of crap pumped out was always going to be a limiting factor of how much retail we actually needed.

Restaurants? They’ll just get more expensive, and marginal business-case ones will flounder. It might just go back to them being an actual luxury thing. What I hope is that some of the chains that have become ubiquitous will wash away with the tide going out. If one is going to be spending bucks to go out, might as well enjoy some local flavour instead of just going to Kelsey’s or something like that.

[manny_santos]

Eh, the Retail Apocalypse has been going on for awhile. Multiple major retailers have struggled since 2008. The over-retailed thing has come to haunt us. It probably will for awhile, because the one’s ability to consume the sheer amount of crap pumped out was always going to be a limiting factor of how much retail we actually needed.

Restaurants? They’ll just get more expensive, and marginal business-case ones will flounder. It might just go back to them being an actual luxury thing. What I hope is that some of the chains that have become ubiquitous will wash away with the tide going out. If one is going to be spending bucks to go out, might as well enjoy some local flavour instead of just going to Kelsey’s or something like that.

My observation has been an increasing number of national chains and fewer independent businesses in Ontario. I haven’t seen this happen as much in BC.

In the part of the Vancouver area in which I live, Starbucks closed several locations in early 2021, but in the meantime a local chain has opened a new coffee shop nearby, another local chain extended its hours, and a new independent Italian shop opened where my local Starbucks used to be.

Meanwhile I’ve been in Toronto and London over the past week. London is more beholden to chain restaurants and chain retailers than ever before, and even Toronto is moving in that direction. There’s been a continued proliferation of Tim Hortons in Toronto that we simply haven’t been seeing in the Vancouver area, even with the loss of numerous Starbucks locations.

As a point of comparison, the city of New Westminster has a Tim Hortons location density of about 7.1 per 100,000 people (not counting institutional locations), while the Byron-Lambeth-River Bend area of London has a Tim Hortons density of 15.2 per 100,000. Independent businesses just seem to thrive better in BC, even outside major city cores.

[esquire]

^ Starbucks closed a handful of locations around Winnipeg over the last couple years. Some have been replaced by new stores with drive-thrus, but we are definitely down several locations.

The donut shop chains like Tim's and Robins seem to be holding steady, but they aren't opening new locations very much anymore. Far from the rate they were opening around 15 years ago.

I guess we've seen peak coffee chain, and it's now on a bit of a descent.

[manny_santos]

^ Starbucks closed a handful of locations around Winnipeg over the last couple years. Some have been replaced by new stores with drive-thrus, but we are definitely down several locations.

The donut shop chains like Tim's and Robins seem to be holding steady, but they aren't opening new locations very much anymore. Far from the rate they were opening around 15 years ago.

I guess we've seen peak coffee chain, and it's now on a bit of a descent.

They’re still expanding in London and area. They’ve opened a new location just outside Byron since the start of the pandemic, and they’ve also expanded into areas like Komoka and Ilderton in the past 5-6 years.

Another chain I’ve noticed has expanded in London is Burger King. They have a new location that just opened outside Sherwood Forest Mall this summer.

[hipster duck]

As a point of comparison, the city of New Westminster has a Tim Hortons location density of about 7.1 per 100,000 people (not counting institutional locations), while the Byron-Lambeth-River Bend area of London has a Tim Hortons density of 15.2 per 100,000. Independent businesses just seem to thrive better in BC, even outside major city cores.

Nice analysis!:cheers:

You should analyze the Tim Horton’s density in a selection of bedroom community cities across Canada: Abbotsford vs Leduc vs Barrie vs St-Jerome vs Lower Sackville, or something like that.

[TownGuy]

Cobourg has a Tim Hortons density of 25 per 100,000. There are 5 with a population of 20,000. I imagine many communities in Southern Ontario rival this.

[Djeffery]

Not really sure why the comparison of New Westminster to Byron/Lambeth/Riverbend in London. Of course the population density is lower here, we aren't boxed in by mountains and an ocean. This area of London is probably geographically double the size of New Westminster. New West would fit in Lambeth from south of Southdale Rd to the 402 and a mile on either side. An area that only has 2 Tim Hortons. The area is being developed with 60-70 foot wide single family lots, not apartment complexes. It's also not like the 4 Timmy's in this side of town are right on top of each other either. And the newest of the 4, the one at Riverbend that opened the summer before the pandemic, is the only Timmy's on Oxford st west of downtown on this major route in and out of the city. (unless you want to deal with that nightmare on Wonderland across from Costco). Should also point out that the plaza this one is located in also has 4 or 5 locally owned non-chain eating locations in it and a couple more going in across the road.

The Lambeth Tim's also serves highway 402 nearby.

[Djeffery]

Cobourg has a Tim Hortons density of 25 per 100,000. There are 5 with a population of 20,000. I imagine many communities in Southern Ontario rival this.

Aylmer has 2 for 7000 people.

[Denscity]

Castlegar has 1 Tim's for 15000 people + highway traffic.

[Nathan]

Aylmer has 2 for 7000 people.

We might need to exclude small towns that partially make it work because of highway traffic. There are 3 towns in Saskatchewan between 1,000 and 2,500 people that I can think of with a Tim Hortons (Davidson, Indian Head, Moosomin)

In fact, Davidson has roughly 90 A&Ws, Subways, and Tim Hortons per 100,000 people.

Scratch that... Chamberlain is my new favourite. Town of 90 with a subway making it 1,111 subways per 100,000 people. :D

[casper]

Castlegar has 1 Tim's for 15000 people + highway traffic.

I lived in Deep River ON in the 1990s when it’s first and only Tims opened. First day they ran out of supplies. Parking lot was packed. Not certain if the entire town of 5000 came out but it felt like it.

[whatnext]

I lived in Deep River ON in the 1990s when it’s first and only Tims opened. First day they ran out of supplies. Parking lot was packed. Not certain if the entire town of 5000 came out but it felt like it.

It’s just like living in Russia!:haha:

[MonctonRad]

I lived in Deep River ON in the 1990s when it’s first and only Tims opened. First day they ran out of supplies. Parking lot was packed. Not certain if the entire town of 5000 came out but it felt like it.

Gee, sounds like the Popeyes that opened the other month in Halifax. :haha:

Our Popeyes opens in a few months time. I'm bracing for massive traffic jams on Mountain Road for at least a month.

[Djeffery]

Cobourg has a Tim Hortons density of 25 per 100,000. There are 5 with a population of 20,000. I imagine many communities in Southern Ontario rival this.

Tillsonburg isn't far off. 4 for 18,000. Belmont, which is about 5 miles south of the 401 SE of London is getting one, and they have maybe 1200 people. It's not a full Timmy's though, but a kiosk in a new Esso station. Which reminds me another small town east of London, Thamesford, has had a Tim's for years. Another of those towns of less than a couple thousand. But there is an OPP office in the library so I think it's an OPP union issue lol.

[Acajack]

At a quick glace, most places in Québec seem to have about half the Tim Hortons density of places in Ontario.

[esquire]

At a quick glace, most places in Québec seem to have about half the Tim Hortons density of places in Ontario.

Sounds like BC and Quebec are the main Timmies deserts in Canada :haha: