General Updates and News

[Dartguard]

If there is any comfort to be taken in this, it is that Public Health almost always overstates the risk involved in these sorts of things, which is then amplified by the news media and sites like FB and Twitter to make it sound even worse. Not to say there is not risk here or that this is not serious, but if you think back to H1N1 they set up massive public immunization programs for citizens but in the end the result proved not much different than the regular seasonal flu. This does appear to be more easily transmitted than many flus and as of now there is not a useful vaccine, which makes this riskier for sure. But it won't be until it is all over that we will be able to assess whether the disruption of life and tanking the world economy was necessary. None of which makes any difference to those who were afflicted and those close to them of course.

But keep in mind that this is the same group of Public Health officials who waged a false war against vaping last fall, convinced the NS govt to pass ill-advised legislation, and got the Feds to run alarmist TV ads stating it is a huge problem and health risk for youth which is absurd. Meanwhile we are seeing virtually no messaging from them or our govt on weed or hard drug use by those same young people. Go figure.

I hear you Keith but let me add some real information. My Brother is one of the ICU doctors that will be on the front line of this. He was a little shocked at the "over reaction" until he read about the Northern Italian experience.
An Italian athlete from the region returned from Wuhan not feeling well and visited the local hospital three times over a ten day period. He was told to go home all three times but Italians are a passionate touchy feely people. As such they greet each other very closely. He had ten days to interact in this retirement community. The town has among the largest proportion of elderly in Italy. When folks got sick there was no resources or people to take care of the complex variations of sickness that showed up.

My Brother is terrified that our system may be only able to do Combat Triage medicine. Anyone with co morbidity ( heart disease, diabetes, Asthma, Kidney disease) will be too complex a set of problems to use the limited resources available. Literally, you will be sent home to pray and hope. N.S. has a disproportionately large elderly cohort that are used to doing things their way. Maybe not this time. Stay the F$%^ home everyone.

[Colin May]

My contact in China says the rest of the world should do what China has done. Batten down the hatches and do what the medical experts tell you to do.

[OldDartmouthMark]

The reality is that there have been similar results worldwide, and the countries that didn't go to extreme measures have thusfar suffered greater consequences, so it's hard to conclude that local officials are acting irrationally. We have the benefit of the experiences of places like Italy, so there is no excuse for inaction at this point.

Regardless of how difficult it is, or how hard it may be to imagine the seriousness of this situation, stay home if you can, wash your hands and keep your distance from people if you have to go out. Stay safe!

[MeEtc]

Received notice that there will be overnight construction happening on Bayers Rd starting fairly soon.

[Keith P.]

My contact in China says the rest of the world should do what China has done. Batten down the hatches and do what the medical experts tell you to do.

Lots of people have opinions. Fortunately the ones that are contrary to those fueling the runaway train have not yet been shouted down completely:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-covid-pandemic-response-scientists-1.5502423?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar

[Drybrain]

Lots of people have opinions. Fortunately the ones that are contrary to those fueling the runaway train have not yet been shouted down completely:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-covid-pandemic-response-scientists-1.5502423?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar

My take is this: We don't know how far is too far. We do know that in place like Italy, and very soon France and Spain, that didn't take social distancing seriously several weeks ago, there have been huge numbers of infections, and there will be far more deaths than needed due to overwhelmed health systems. There is no excuse not to be maximally cautious right now. From that CBC story: "Where there is reasonable evidence of an impending threat to public health, it is inappropriate to require proof of causation beyond a reasonable doubt before taking steps to avert the threat," Campbell wrote in a chapter called "Spring of Fear," citing Justice Horace Krever, who presided over Canada's tainted blood inquiry.

No one wants to spend the next (three? six? 12? 18?) months sitting at home and living largely online. No one wants to be cut off from friends and family. I think there is a lot of good cause for optimism that these worst-case scenario may be mitigated, too: pharmaceutical interventions; an unexpectedly robust herd immunity response based on what may end up being large numbers of asymptomatic and now immune (or at least infection-resistant) individuals; contact tracing and swift lockdowns in isolated areas to contain outbreaks.

What happens in South Korea, China, and Japan in the next few weeks will tell us a lot.

Until then, I don't see any reason to be less cautious. We've seen in Italy what the "meh, it's not so bad" response can do. The U.S. looks to be on a not-so-different path. Let's keep this thing bottled up as much as possible, and hope that evidence emerges in the coming weeks that will really tell us what the rest of 2020 looks like.

[someone123]

Until then, I don't see any reason to be less cautious. We've seen in Italy what the "meh, it's not so bad" response can do. The U.S. looks to be on a not-so-different path. Let's keep this thing bottled up as much as possible, and hope that evidence emerges in the coming weeks that will really tell us what the rest of 2020 looks like.

There is an economic and social cost to the anti-coronavirus measures though, and a lot of people are just waving their hands about death rates and exponential growth. The death rates are not meaningful because testing hasn't been sufficient to estimate the total number of cases. Exponential growth is a mathematical model which may or may not describe what's happening.

I think we are bad at looking at risk or comparing health problems or death to financial implications. When average or poorer people lose income it has a real impact on their well-being but we tend not to quantify it, while 1 death of an 84 year old who tested positive for coronavirus makes the news in North America right now.

I agree that it makes sense to take strong measures early on. But it'll be important to try to relax as quickly as we safely can to keep the economy from being seriously damaged. I am hoping we'll quickly see a reduction in new cases and we can gradually try new things like re-opening restaurants. Maybe if people are more careful (just doing things like washing hands or staying home when sick) and we do lots of testing, transmission will drop below the rate at which it spreads uncontrollably through the population.

[Keith P.]

There is an economic and social cost to the anti-coronavirus measures though, and a lot of people are just waving their hands about death rates and exponential growth. The death rates are not meaningful because testing hasn't been sufficient to estimate the total number of cases. Exponential growth is a mathematical model which may or may not describe what's happening.

I think we are bad at looking at risk or comparing health problems or death to financial implications. When average or poorer people lose income it has a real impact on their well-being but we tend not to quantify it, while 1 death of an 84 year old who tested positive for coronavirus makes the news in North America right now.

I agree that it makes sense to take strong measures early on. But it'll be important to try to relax as quickly as we safely can to keep the economy from being seriously damaged. I am hoping we'll quickly see a reduction in new cases and we can gradually try new things like re-opening restaurants. Maybe if people are more careful (just doing things like washing hands or staying home when sick) and we do lots of testing, transmission will drop below the rate at which it spreads uncontrollably through the population.

Exactly, and that is what nobody seems to be thinking about. The economy is the biggest victim in all of this, not just the stock markets, but businsses and jobs and the ability of people to make a living. So you want to get those things back on track as soon as it is practical to do so, yet there is a very real risk that the Strangs and McNeils and Trudeaus of the world will resist doing so for fear of backlash when the inevitable (hopefully small) negative consequence to doing that occurs. It is far easier for them to keep restaurants and bars closed than it is to face a mob of media wanting them to take the blame for a late-developing case that goes bad.

[Drybrain]

There is an economic and social cost to the anti-coronavirus measures though, and a lot of people are just waving their hands about death rates and exponential growth. The death rates are not meaningful because testing hasn't been sufficient to estimate the total number of cases. Exponential growth is a mathematical model which may or may not describe what's happening.

I think we are bad at looking at risk or comparing health problems or death to financial implications. When average or poorer people lose income it has a real impact on their well-being but we tend not to quantify it, while 1 death of an 84 year old who tested positive for coronavirus makes the news in North America right now.

I agree that it makes sense to take strong measures early on. But it'll be important to try to relax as quickly as we safely can to keep the economy from being seriously damaged. I am hoping we'll quickly see a reduction in new cases and we can gradually try new things like re-opening restaurants. Maybe if people are more careful (just doing things like washing hands or staying home when sick) and we do lots of testing, transmission will drop below the rate at which it spreads uncontrollably through the population.

I wouldn't call it hand-waving, nor would I call exponential growth merely thoeretical--it's currently happening, and has already resulted in the nightmarish swamping of medical systems in Asia and Europe. A longer, protracted, controlled pandemic enables us to get some handle on a weird and temporary new normal, with a lot of remote work and the like.

I agree that as immunity slowly builds (hopefully) and we deploy frequent and wide-scale testing, we'll hopefully be able to soften isolation measures.
Of course it will be important to relax containment measures as soon as feasible, and I have optimism we won't need 18 months of severe isolation. But the world's most knowledgeable infectious-disease experts are basically united on saying that we need that, for now, in order to prevent totally needless mass death. Reports of 1-2 million dead in the US are completely credible, if no containment measures are taken. Besides the human toll, that wouldn't exactly be an economy-booster.

As to Keith's "the economy is the biggest victim," uh, no.

[Jonovision]

Not sure if this has a thread yet but the signs went up on site with a link to this proposal for the Dennis site.

http://pressblock.ca/

http://pressblock.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/barrington-street-looking-south-1024x683.jpg

http://pressblock.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/barrington-street-looking-north.jpg

http://pressblock.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/george-and-granville-street-1024x683.jpg

[Keith P.]

Looks much like the proposal I had seen years ago of an extension to One Govt Place. And looks about as forgettable. However I'm sure the province will be the main tenant and consolidate more offices next to Province House.

[Keith P.]

As to Keith's "the economy is the biggest victim," uh, no.

Tell that to the millions who have or soon will lose their jobs and be destitute, or the people who have been saving for retirement and had a good chunk of that wiped out along with their hopes.

[teddifax]

I don't dislike it... I think the N.S. government set limits to heights on this building so as not to overshadow the legislature building. It does compliment the Dennis building.

[someone123]

Not sure if this has a thread yet but the signs went up on site with a link to this proposal for the Dennis site.

http://pressblock.ca/

Thanks for posting this. I have made a new project thread.

[Drybrain]

Tell that to the millions who have or soon will lose their jobs and be destitute, or the people who have been saving for retirement and had a good chunk of that wiped out along with their hopes.

Okay, let me put it is way: if we take social-distancing and curve-flattening seriously, the economy will be the biggest victim. If we try to strike some kind of balance in the short term, we could end up with vast numbers of dead. In the short-term, we need to swallow this bitter pill and minimize infections. We'll know more about he viability of lifting restrictions as more data come out of Asia in the next few weeks.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I wouldn't call it hand-waving, nor would I call exponential growth merely thoeretical--it's currently happening, and has already resulted in the nightmarish swamping of medical systems in Asia and Europe. A longer, protracted, controlled pandemic enables us to get some handle on a weird and temporary new normal, with a lot of remote work and the like.

I agree that as immunity slowly builds (hopefully) and we deploy frequent and wide-scale testing, we'll hopefully be able to soften isolation measures.
Of course it will be important to relax containment measures as soon as feasible, and I have optimism we won't need 18 months of severe isolation. But the world's most knowledgeable infectious-disease experts are basically united on saying that we need that, for now, in order to prevent totally needless mass death. Reports of 1-2 million dead in the US are completely credible, if no containment measures are taken. Besides the human toll, that wouldn't exactly be an economy-booster.

As to Keith's "the economy is the biggest victim," uh, no.

Well said, and I agree.

[Colin May]

Talking to a tradesman today who told me he expected construction sites to be closing down soon and that he expects to be out of work in a few days. Lack of supplies.
My hunch is that construction financing may also be an issue; with lenders not willing to advance further funds in an uncertain climate.
Force majeure is alive and well.

[Nouvellecosse]

There is an economic and social cost to the anti-coronavirus measures though, and a lot of people are just waving their hands about death rates and exponential growth. The death rates are not meaningful because testing hasn't been sufficient to estimate the total number of cases. Exponential growth is a mathematical model which may or may not describe what's happening.

I think we are bad at looking at risk or comparing health problems or death to financial implications. When average or poorer people lose income it has a real impact on their well-being but we tend not to quantify it, while 1 death of an 84 year old who tested positive for coronavirus makes the news in North America right now.

I agree that it makes sense to take strong measures early on. But it'll be important to try to relax as quickly as we safely can to keep the economy from being seriously damaged. I am hoping we'll quickly see a reduction in new cases and we can gradually try new things like re-opening restaurants. Maybe if people are more careful (just doing things like washing hands or staying home when sick) and we do lots of testing, transmission will drop below the rate at which it spreads uncontrollably through the population.

I agree with the main points regarding the difficulty in comparing harm in the form of deaths and illness to harm from economic hardship. Someone already pointed out that exponential growth isn't theoretical when it comes to disease (or many other applications) so I won't belabour that point. What I did want to mention is that I worry people may be overly cavalier with the death rate due to it being mainly in seniors. It might be tempting to say that since the average life expectancy in Canada is 82 years, that someone who is 84 is basically about to die anyway so having it done by a disease that would be survivable for most younger people is just nature taking its course and not worth too much societal disruption to prevent (I'm not saying you believe this, but I've encountered people who seem to). But in reality, the average life expectancy doesn't say a whole lot about how long a person can expect to live once they already get to that age because it includes all the people who died earlier of any other cause (cancer or other illness, homicide/suicide, car or various other accidents, etc.) So if you manage to survive all those things and make it to your 80s, you could very well live another decade or more.

That being said, it's possible that many of the elderly people who succumb to the disease are more frail than average and may not have lived as long, but we don't really know. To understand the actual loss of life, lets imagine that all the people who died could have expected an average of just another 5 years of life. At the time I'm writing this there have been 14,600 deaths globally based on this link (https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus). That equates to 890 whole 82 year lifetimes or the deaths of 1973 fourty-five year olds who would otherwise have lived to 82. Any disease that was highly infectious, present in Canada, and that already killed nearly 2000 people of average age globally, I think we'd be every bit as cautious. And really even if 14,600 people lost 5 years of their life to say imprisonment, that would also be a tremendous tragedy.

Another thing that's important to remember is that even if the disease doesn't kill a person, it can seriously disrupt their life and create incredible discomfort. We've all heard the reports of people who had few or no symptoms, but there are many more people who get extremely ill, sometimes to the point of seeking medical attention. That has huge economic implications in and of itself even without a single death. Even diseases such as cold and flu have a huge impact on the economy and people's quality of life due to things like decreased productivity. So even without a single death a disease that is more infectious than the flu and that there isn't a vaccine for would have a huge affect on the economy. Particularly given how fast it spreads. There would be a huge proportion of the public sick at once putting people out of commission indiscriminately of how important a service they or their industry provide.

[atbw]

As to Keith's "the economy is the biggest victim," uh, no.

The economy is in trouble whether or not we let this thing run rampant. The question is, do we do everything we can to minimize the human cost? Or do we try and cash out at a massive human cost? Ignoring social distancing isn't going to make this go away.

[Keith P.]

The economy is in trouble whether or not we let this thing run rampant. The question is, do we do everything we can to minimize the human cost? Or do we try and cash out at a massive human cost? Ignoring social distancing isn't going to make this go away.

Nor can the economy of the country continue going at the present rate of shutdown for months. Governments can only print so much money before they start to incur consequences. The problem is that once you hitch your policy wagon to the Public Health train it is very difficult to disengage since for them the balance of risk is a very tenuous concept. It will be interesting to see what happens when the rate of case growth slows and people start demanding a return to some sort of normalcy. Much of the public has been so scared by govts and the media that we could see civil unrest between the two sides. The current police state is foreign to Canadians and I suspect many will not take it well if it lasts very long.

[Drybrain]

The current police state is foreign to Canadians and I suspect many will not take it well if it lasts very long.

Everything currently happening is legal and constitutional, so there is no "police state."

[Keith P.]

Everything currently happening is legal and constitutional, so there is no "police state."

Having the police issue $1000 tickets for people using a trail may be legal at present but is hardly proof that we have not descended into a police state. What China has done in rounding up people is legal there as well but is surely a sign of such a state.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Nor can the economy of the country continue going at the present rate of shutdown for months. Governments can only print so much money before they start to incur consequences. The problem is that once you hitch your policy wagon to the Public Health train it is very difficult to disengage since for them the balance of risk is a very tenuous concept. It will be interesting to see what happens when the rate of case growth slows and people start demanding a return to some sort of normalcy. Much of the public has been so scared by govts and the media that we could see civil unrest between the two sides. The current police state is foreign to Canadians and I suspect many will not take it well if it lasts very long.

Be careful what you wish for, Keith. Are you willing to 'take one for the team'?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/coronavirus-covid-economy-seniors-1.5510079

"As a senior citizen, are you willing to take a chance on your survival, in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren? And if that's the exchange, I'm all in," said Patrick, 70, this week in a much-quoted and much-shared clip from Fox News.

If you want to discuss the COVID-19 situation further, then I suggest you take it to this thread:
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=241968&page=199

[Keith P.]

If you want to discuss the COVID-19 situation further, then I suggest you take it to this thread:
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=241968&page=199

A curious comment, since it was you who initiated the discussion in this thread. But I do not care to comment on it further here, as it is therapeutic to get away from the constant noise on the subject.

[OldDartmouthMark]

A curious comment, since it was you who initiated the discussion in this thread. But I do not care to comment on it further here, as it is therapeutic to get away from the constant noise on the subject.

Well I started it, so I'll finish it. But you only have to read back to know I started talking about it to explain where my headspace was in relation to the previous conversation.

You decided to take it in a whole different direction, which is fine, but let's get this thread back on track. Plus, if this sidestep gives you a good out then it's better for all of us.

Sorry for the tangent I created, folks.

[MeEtc]

Haven't seen this mentioned yet. There are tender documents and detailed (watermarked) plans available for a renovation and addition of Dalhousie Arts Centre. https://dal.bidsandtenders.ca/Module/Tenders/en

[Dmajackson]

:previous: And literally across the street ... :haha:

Haven't seen this mentioned yet. There are tender documents and detailed (watermarked) plans available for a renovation and addition of Dalhousie Arts Centre. https://dal.bidsandtenders.ca/Module/Tenders/en

Dalhousie Arts Addtion is under construction. This is on my main bike route so updates can be followed at #dalhousiearts (https://urbanhalifax.tumblr.com/tagged/dalhousiearts)

https://66.media.tumblr.com/36e5e79c7f0daa8d6dc604701e0fe78f/7441044fa1a3db31-94/s540x810/251cf6d2f1811da8b9df899aa830441922ae5baf.jpg
Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson) (https://urbanhalifax.tumblr.com/)

And just a hundred feet up the street is CAPITOL SUITES (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=208767&page=5)

[someone123]

The Housing Trust of NS is asking for a 1 year extension on the deadline for beginning construction of the first of 2 affordable housing projects on Gottingen Street. Construction would have to begin by June 2, 2021:

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/salt/housing-trust-of-nova-scotia-asks-for-more-time-to-start-halifax-affordable-housing-development-430546/

[someone123]

Rendering of the reno of the corner building by the Roy on Barrington:

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91747961_2296050417165211_8136968567661789184_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQlGNZUtrIc9LWxrUGLnc05ojrJsz9CZuPARU1Pp6EAv0i3C1x7VPgsARA4PM0qGhx4&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=5e0c8a90b0087823618be224ea255a3a&oe=5EA8DDC8
Source (https://www.facebook.com/pg/Developments-HFX-1613177012119225/posts/)

[OldDartmouthMark]

I hate to say it, but IMHO the "renovation" addition actually looks quite bad, like some kind of 1980s architectural nightmare.

Not sure why they wouldn't just dress up what is already there, perhaps reconfigure or add some stone cladding (if that's not what is there already - it's unclear from streetview) and continue the vertical theme between the windows so that the upper floors continue the same design theme as the lower ones.

I think the mish-mash appearance of this proposal will be a mistake if the concept makes it to built form.

[someone123]

I'm not sure what works is being done there. Is it just a restoration project with some cosmetic exterior work on the upper floors, or is the upper addition being stripped down or demolished and rebuilt?

This building has gone through a lot of changes over the years. At one point it was a 3-storey brick Victorian. I am not sure what parts of that structure remain.

[Colin May]

Hope you all keep well. Just follow the rules for as long as necessary and we will all get through this. When I was younger I was quarantined, along with a group of men, in Africa and in the Middle East. It is not a big deal, unless you have young kids. The good news is that citizens and governments may reach agreement as to what is important and what would be nice to have. Perhaps we may even have politicians who decide that keeping strategic medical supplies for emergencies rank higher in priority than more visible spending. In California the governor who succeeded Schwarzenegger got rid of the emergency supplies in order to save $5 million a year in an annual budget of $100 billion. Schwarzenegger grew up in postwar Europe and knew all about desperate poverty and I like to think his experience informed his decisions.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-27/coronavirus-california-mobile-hospitals-ventilators?fbclid=IwAR1JOlBaxetGwcA8LSLp-Xw4orNi1xW5KHFE3aov5JgMpKWbbBj23bhUYwM

Best wishes to everyone. https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/1244729540892450821/photo/1

[Keith P.]

I'm not sure what works is being done there. Is it just a restoration project with some cosmetic exterior work on the upper floors, or is the upper addition being stripped down or demolished and rebuilt?

This building has gone through a lot of changes over the years. At one point it was a 3-storey brick Victorian. I am not sure what parts of that structure remain.

From the rendering above it appears they are building a "cage" facade to mask the existing upper floors and mimic somewhat the lower part, but it seems what is there now will remain somewhat visible behind it. It seems to me that it is a dumb idea.

ETA: Those upper floors were a later addition according to this photo from the Halifax Municipal Archives.

http://i1.imgrr.com/13H/9436_sackbarrsm.jpg (http://imgrr.com/view/13H/9436_sackbarrsm.jpg)

Original larger image: http://gencat1.eloquent-systems.com/webcat/systems/halifax/resource/6000_1038_5022200_cr2.07.jpgplu_p1dkgdo40s7d11tjm15qiuch118k4.jpg

[BLeagues]

What's going on with the project at the corner of Dutch Village and Rosedale in Fairview?

It seems like construction has stopped. The hoist block on the tower crane has been stowed for at least a month now.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I'm not sure what works is being done there. Is it just a restoration project with some cosmetic exterior work on the upper floors, or is the upper addition being stripped down or demolished and rebuilt?

This building has gone through a lot of changes over the years. At one point it was a 3-storey brick Victorian. I am not sure what parts of that structure remain.

I agree with Keith in that it just looks like they are building a cage of sorts to try to hide the upper floors added to the building (after 1959, the date of the photo Keith posted). I just can't see that being attractive in built form (it isn't in the rendering, which is usually the best that a project will ever look).

As for the building that was there before, here's a pic from the NS Archives from 1933 (https://novascotia.ca/archives/EastCoastPort/archives.asp?ID=7). It appears to have little in common with the current building (window spacing, layout, etc.) so I suspect the current structure was a completely new build, but don't have information to back it up.

https://novascotia.ca/archives/images/EastCoastPort/122010.jpg

[Dmajackson]

Full building renovation is underway at 3180 Isleville in the Hydrostone District. The residential building on the left is complete and the one on the right is under construction.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/57181d07ffef38e673277ddf88654818/4abb9d5b9734216e-2f/s1280x1920/212222c08b8e8d6380cfc8d254c833c9468d4b83.jpg
'Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson) (https://urbanhalifax.tumblr.com/)

[Hali87]

I've noticed over the last few years that Halifax and Calgary seem to be sort of converging in terms of their newest architecture. This is another project that reminds me pretty much exactly of the scale and aesthetic of inner-city Calgary commercial strips (though not necessarily the houses that book-end it)

[OldDartmouthMark]

Kind of reminds me of a modernist style like you would have seen built in the 1950s or 60s. In my words, kinda blocky and funky. Not overtly beautiful, but interesting in its geometry.

[Colin May]

https://twitter.com/jen_keesmaat/status/1243967624205262848
Thank God Jennifer Keesmat was never offered a position in the HRM planning department
Quite obvious to me that she has never spent any time in Asia.
I think it is quite obvious that "DENSITY KILLS"

[Keith P.]

Keesmat is considered a goddess in the planning community. Like many urban planners she has a huge ego and a superiority complex where she feels compelled to tell people how to live their lives. It is a remarkable characteristic of planners especially given that the existing urban form many now rail against was a product of previous generations of urban planners. It makes one wonder what future generations will think of what we are now constructing thanks to the current generation of planners.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Well she showed out her ignorance in that post. I don't know anything about her and already I'm not a fan.

Stay safe everybody!

[Colin May]

Well she showed out her ignorance in that post. I don't know anything about her and already I'm not a fan.

Stay safe everybody!
Hi Mark, All the best to you and yours. News from China indicates severe harassment of Africans living,working and studying there.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Hi Mark, All the best to you and yours. News from China indicates severe harassment of Africans living,working and studying there.

All the best to you and yours as well, Colin! Stay safe and hopefully we'll all be able to look back a this thing one of these months. This has thrown the whole world upside down.

[Nouvellecosse]

I do happen to know a fair amount about Keesmat. I've followed her career and listened to her podcast for years. She's a brilliant person who happened to make an inaccurate statement in an area outside of her professional expertise. If never having been wrong about anything even outside of one's field is a requirement for employment or respect, 98% of the population would be unemployed.

[Colin May]

I do happen to know a fair amount about Keesmat. I've followed her career and listened to her podcast for years. She's a brilliant person who happened to make an inaccurate statement in an area outside of her professional expertise. If never having been wrong about anything even outside of one's field is a requirement for employment or respect, 98% of the population would be unemployed.
She made a stupid comment about people wearing a medical mask in a Toronto grocery store. All the replies show it was a stupid comment. You don't need to be an expert or have a PhD in medicine to understand why people would wear such a mask. She must lead a cloistered life if she cannot understand what she observed. Look at all the replies to her twitter post.
And she came out on the losing side in that TVO discussion regarding density and death yesterday. She didn't seem to understand the cultural differences between Asia and N America/Europe.

[Nouvellecosse]

I think it was inaccurate but I don't think it was stupid. There has been a lot of conflicting information going around regarding masks and other aspects of the virus and people make mistakes. Sorry but I just don't with your characterization.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I'll weigh in because I commented.

I don't know her from any other stranger on the street, but it peeves me a little when people speak up (or tweet in this case) as though they are experts when obviously they are not. She has no right to be judgemental and criticize people for wearing masks when she obviously doesn't understand the reasoning behind it, or anything at all about the people she is judging. The dozens of replies to her tweet sum it up pretty well.

This type of behaviour says a lot about a person, IMHO, and most of it is not good.

However your positive support for her reveals that she is likely good at her job, but being good at her job doesn't preclude her from possessing a level of ignorance... or arrogance. I've seen it before where somebody is brilliant in their line of work and they seem to internalize it to feel that they are brilliant in everything. She has demonstrated that she should not be commenting on this topic as though she was an authority, and hopefully she has learned from this experience, for everybody's sake.

[Colin May]

I spent 2 months in Yokohama, December '67 through February '68. Common to see people wearing masks - in the street and on transit, people of all ages. Quite common in other parts of Asia, then and now. She told TVO that she is an advisor to a Singapore business agency. The social culture of Asia is unlike our culture, deference to authority is par for the course, and the common good supersedes the individualism common in Europe and N America. Wearing a mask is therefore good for the individual and good for the community, and also shows the individual is acting in the interest of all.
I am sure she has learned from the replies to her comment.

[Nouvellecosse]

I didn't mean to jump down your throat and obviously there's nothing wrong with criticising someone. I guess I'm just a bit frustrated with all the cancel culture stuff where it seems like people are being completely written off like they're not deserving of any respect or benefit of the doubt because of one or two mistakes. I sort of got the same vibe in this case but perhaps I was mis-interpreting it.

[someone123]

I don't know her from any other stranger on the street, but it peeves me a little when people speak up (or tweet in this case) as though they are experts when obviously they are not. She has no right to be judgemental and criticize people for wearing masks when she obviously doesn't understand the reasoning behind it, or anything at all about the people she is judging. The dozens of replies to her tweet sum it up pretty well.

I tend to steer clear of Twitter in general and political content or pronouncements in general. It has a lot of outrage theatrics, commentary that is more about the desire for affirmation of the poster than the subject matter. I doubt that is getting better during this period when so many are isolated and stressed.

I hope you are all staying safe and healthy and that this period draws to a close as quickly as possible. I think this will change a lot of things, like how 9/11 did but probably more profoundly, but I don't think that it will necessarily take that many weeks before Canada can slowly return to something closer to the old normal than what we have right now.

With masks the advice and social dynamic got a little weird in North America. There was a lot of confusion about shortages, the possibility of infection due to improper use, and the distinction between self protection and preventing transmission from the mask wearer to others. There is also a lot of confusion about aerosolization of the virus (which requires an N95 mask but isn't likely to happen outside of specific health care settings). People should try to stay informed but shouldn't get too worked up, and it's the health care setting where mask use is most important right now since most others shouldn't have much exposure right now.

[Colin May]

[QUOTE=someone123;8890790]I tend to steer clear of Twitter in general and I am not on twitter but follow some issues. In this house we are well aware of what is happening in China and with daily messages from there we have followed this subject since before the western media paid much attention. I don't and won't post what we know except to say that we stocked up on supplies quite early. I don't go out much, except for a walk and stay at least 10 feet away from another person - the much touted 6 feet is not enough.
My main worry is that after this has passed we may have people who draw the conclusion that the medical advice and the closure of parks was over the top and that the low number of deaths somehow proves governments have overreacted. When I was younger I was all over the world and vaccinated for I don't know how many diseases, I had no choice in the matter.
We will all learn from this. I hope you keep well and get through this to enjoy the life that others have been denied. Keep safe.

[someone123]

My main worry is that after this has passed we may have people who draw the conclusion that the medical advice and the closure of parks was over the top and that the low number of deaths somehow proves governments have overreacted. When I was younger I was all over the world and vaccinated for I don't know how many diseases, I had no choice in the matter.
We will all learn from this. I hope you keep well and get through this to enjoy the life that others have been denied. Keep safe.

The best argument against the "overreaction" is that we can see what happened in Wuhan, New York and Italy. There's no reason why that couldn't have happened in Canada except for the public health response.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I tend to steer clear of Twitter in general and political content or pronouncements in general. It has a lot of outrage theatrics, commentary that is more about the desire for affirmation of the poster than the subject matter. I doubt that is getting better during this period when so many are isolated and stressed.

I hope you are all staying safe and healthy and that this period draws to a close as quickly as possible. I think this will change a lot of things, like how 9/11 did but probably more profoundly, but I don't think that it will necessarily take that many weeks before Canada can slowly return to something closer to the old normal than what we have right now.

With masks the advice and social dynamic got a little weird in North America. There was a lot of confusion about shortages, the possibility of infection due to improper use, and the distinction between self protection and preventing transmission from the mask wearer to others. There is also a lot of confusion about aerosolization of the virus (which requires an N95 mask but isn't likely to happen outside of specific health care settings). People should try to stay informed but shouldn't get too worked up, and it's the health care setting where mask use is most important right now since most others shouldn't have much exposure right now.

This forum is the closest thing I get to social media, and even this sometimes borders on the ridiculous (especially the Canada section - the Halifax section is much more sane). The reason I mentioned the twitter responses is that I had a number of thoughts when I read the linked twitter comment, then many of the responses I read subsequently echoed my exact thoughts. But yes, the whole dynamic of twitter sickens me somewhat, it often reads like a bunch of closet bullies waiting to pile on to someone - makes me wonder why they don't have better things to do with their time.

I agree with your other comments. The mask narrative from the authorities was a little confusing, and it still is to an extent. The last time I was out, at a grocery store a week ago, I saw a girl wearing a respirator type mask - the type you'd wear if you were painting - and I never thought anything of it. I figured that either she was immunocompromised, or just afraid of catching this thing. I considered the possibility that she could have thought she was in contact with somebody who had it - there would be no way of knowing short of asking her. But it never would have occurred to me to call out people in her situation on social media. That's just dumb and nonproductive.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I didn't mean to jump down your throat and obviously there's nothing wrong with criticising someone. I guess I'm just a bit frustrated with all the cancel culture stuff where it seems like people are being completely written off like they're not deserving of any respect or benefit of the doubt because of one or two mistakes. I sort of got the same vibe in this case but perhaps I was mis-interpreting it.

I don't think you overreacted, you were just defending somebody you have high regard for. I was just commenting on what I read.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I don't have much regard for social media in general, so 'cancel culture' is just a concept that I have heard of, but it has virtually no meaning in my life. IMHO, you have to care what somebody on social media thinks of you for cancel culture to matter. I don't.

[OldDartmouthMark]

The best argument against the "overreaction" is that we can see what happened in Wuhan, New York and Italy. There's no reason why that couldn't have happened in Canada except for the public health response.

Colin's point is valid though. I also read a US-based internet forum, and it's amazing how many of those members still think that this is some kind of scam, with people dying all around them. The lack of intelligence astounds me sometimes.

[Nouvellecosse]

I don't think you overreacted, you were just defending somebody you have high regard for. I was just commenting on what I read.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I don't have much regard for social media in general, so 'cancel culture' is just a concept that I have heard of, but it has virtually no meaning in my life. IMHO, you have to care what somebody on social media thinks of you for cancel culture to matter. I don't.

Oh I understand completely.

I'm just not so sure about the second part. Social media is just the medium through which people are often communicating nowadays. But the people using it are real and their opinions have real world effects. In extreme cases people have been fired, or excluded from aspects of real life because of disparaging opinions spread about them. Unfortunately the idea that you can ignore your way out of it is, let's say, "optimistic". Yes social media shapes how the dynamic functions such as allowing negativity to spread faster, but ultimately it's just a form of public shaming that has existed before social media was even invented. Monica Lewinsky gave a fascinating TED talk on it a few years ago including discussing her experience that occurred over 20 years ago.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Oh I understand completely.

I'm just not so sure about the second part. Social media is just the medium through which people are often communicating nowadays. But the people using it are real and their opinions have real world effects. In extreme cases people have been fired, or excluded from aspects of real life because of disparaging opinions spread about them. Unfortunately the idea that you can ignore your way out of it is, let's say, "optimistic". Yes social media shapes how the dynamic functions such as allowing negativity to spread faster, but ultimately it's just a form of public shaming that has existed before social media was even invented. Monica Lewinsky gave a fascinating TED talk on it a few years ago including discussing her experience that occurred over 20 years ago.

Ummm OK, good points, mostly. But this will generally not happen if you don’t put yourself out there. I suppose you could be publicly shamed on social media without knowing it, but if it doesn’t have real world implications for you it will be akin to a tree falling in the forest...

I really think most of it is crap and has not done one thing to improve society. Now I really don’t want to enter into a debate with you on this, so that’s all folks. I’m done with this.

[Colin May]

This is old news in our house : https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8210335/African-nations-US-say-blacks-mistreated-Chinese-city.html

There are videos and photos out in social media.

[Djeffery]

The mask narrative from the authorities was a little confusing, and it still is to an extent. The last time I was out, at a grocery store a week ago, I saw a girl wearing a respirator type mask - the type you'd wear if you were painting - and I never thought anything of it. I figured that either she was immunocompromised, or just afraid of catching this thing. I considered the possibility that she could have thought she was in contact with somebody who had it - there would be no way of knowing short of asking her. But it never would have occurred to me to call out people in her situation on social media. That's just dumb and nonproductive.

The other possibility is she or someone in her household is a painter and this is the only thing they had handy, so that's what she used.

[OldDartmouthMark]

The other possibility is she or someone in her household is a painter and this is the only thing they had handy, so that's what she used.

Possibly, and probably better protection than a medical mask. The point is, it's no big deal.

[Keith P.]

As I mentioned in my previous post, I don't have much regard for social media in general, so 'cancel culture' is just a concept that I have heard of, but it has virtually no meaning in my life. IMHO, you have to care what somebody on social media thinks of you for cancel culture to matter. I don't.

I am avoiding it as much as I can in this climate. One thing I have noticed online during this is the substantial number of people who are ready to shame, condemn, or complain about to the authorities, those who are not necessarily violating the orders, but who are doing things they do not agree with. A large percentage have almost instantly become agents of the state, willing to see their fellow citizens visited by the police and ticketed or shamed by their friends, for buying groceries too often or going to Costco. It is remarkable how many quislings were lurking in our society.

While the goal of limiting virus spread is valid, the tactics used by Strang and McNeil are in some instances vague, unsupported by evidence, and imperfect in their rationale or explanation, yet many people are quite willing to follow them off the deep end, fellow citizens be damned.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I think most of the folks you are talking about are more the 'lunatic fringe' who suddenly have a platform now that social media has become the norm (for many). I still believe the vast majority of people are sane, reasonable people who want to do good, but you mostly hear from the whack jobs on social media.

Which is one of the reasons I choose not to partake, it's too much of a friggen circus. Very hard to take any of it seriously.

[someone123]

I am avoiding it as much as I can in this climate. One thing I have noticed online during this is the substantial number of people who are ready to shame, condemn, or complain about to the authorities, those who are not necessarily violating the orders, but who are doing things they do not agree with. A large percentage have almost instantly become agents of the state, willing to see their fellow citizens visited by the police and ticketed or shamed by their friends, for buying groceries too often or going to Costco. It is remarkable how many quislings were lurking in our society.

I agree completely about this. People should take reasonable steps, follow the rules, be patient, and be kind to others. Fear and panic are not helpful and I have no patience for people who cause drama during a difficult time.

I am not as up to date on NS but the numbers there are quite good. By that I mean that it has weathered the pandemic better than most places on earth. By contrast in a place like Louisiana there were increases of 30 a day like NS at its peak and then there was a relentless march up to hundreds of cases a day and many deaths (with a high death rate that implied many cases were never detected). NS remains largely in that 15-30 new cases a day range, with a decent amount of testing. Yesterday there were 17 new cases and there have only been 2 deaths so far.

Here in BC it's similar and the authorities have had to walk a very difficult path, minimizing economic damage while trying to bring down the number of cases. No matter what they do they face criticism from a vocal minority on both sides; the conspiracy theorists and those who went overnight from not knowing what COVID-19 is to thinking we should all be cowering in our basements. We should be putting our effort into figuring out how to support as much economic activity as possible without allowing the virus to spread. The big measures are to wash your hands and not get close to people. It's not actually that complicated in many situations.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Amid all the COVID-19 related news, something positive for a change:

Passenger ferry service could visit Georges Island this summer (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/passenger-ferry-service-could-visit-georges-island-this-summer-1.5533241)

If life returns to some semblance of normal before the summer is over, there could be a new attraction on the Halifax waterfront.

Develop Nova Scotia has issued a tender for regular daily ferry service to run between the waterfront and Georges Island. According to the tender, the service would run from July 3 to Sept. 3, with the potential to be extended as late as Nov. 15.

The ferry would begin sailing each day at 10 a.m., leaving the Halifax waterfront at least once an hour, with the final crossing leaving Georges Island at 5 p.m.

[jonny golden]

Was planning a trip to see the buskers. Has there been any announcement as to whether or not the festival has been cancelled? Thanks.

[mleblanc]

Looks like the former BMO tower, 5151 George Street is getting a podium, and makeover. I apologize if this has been posted before:
https://i.imgur.com/sKib4N8.jpg
https://breakhouse.ca/portfolio/architecture/5151-george/

[Drybrain]

Was planning a trip to see the buskers. Has there been any announcement as to whether or not the festival has been cancelled? Thanks.

Always good to be optimistic, but my guess would be that it will be cancelled.

The projections around re-opening seem to suggest that May/June will see an easing of travel restrictions and the limits on small gatherings. Followed a little while later by limited workplace re-openings and maybe public gathering places like bars and restaurants (but with more distancing measures in place to avoid crowding). And then it will continue on like that through the summer, slowly easing up a bit at a time.

But I honestly think large, crowded events like festivals, theatre events, sporting events, large concerts, etc., are unlikely to be back until next year at least. That's just my guess, though, and we're all groping a bit blindly through this.

[someone123]

Looks like the former BMO tower, 5151 George Street is getting a podium, and makeover. I apologize if this has been posted before:
https://i.imgur.com/sKib4N8.jpg
https://breakhouse.ca/portfolio/architecture/5151-george/

This is funny because I had seen some BMO tower renderings before but I don't remember that lighting. I wonder if I am forgetting part of it or if this is another iteration?

This seems quite old since BMO's been gone for a while but it looks nice. The lighting is interesting. It would not take much to refresh this building on the outside. Architecturally the upper floors have an almost Art Deco appearance even though this was built much later.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I've always liked the design of this building. It would be nice to see some improvements to spiff it up a bit.

I didn't read through the proposal, but is it intended to continue as office space, or will it be converted to residential?

[teddifax]

I wish all buildings would be fitted with LED (hopefully SMART) lighting... you see so many cities that can light the skyline and program the lights. They are amazing...

[Hali87]

It also has a twin in Quebec City (https://goo.gl/maps/FcB1Yuai6tnvDcV97).

[kph06]

Looks like the former BMO tower, 5151 George Street is getting a podium, and makeover. I apologize if this has been posted before:
https://i.imgur.com/sKib4N8.jpg
https://breakhouse.ca/portfolio/architecture/5151-george/

I could be wrong, but I think this is proposal has been around for a bit and could be out of date now. Again, going off memory, I think this building has been sold and the long term plan is conversion to residential (unless a big tenant drops out of the sky).

[HalifaxRetales]

I could be wrong, but I think this is proposal has been around for a bit and could be out of date now. Again, going off memory, I think this building has been sold and the long term plan is conversion to residential (unless a big tenant drops out of the sky).

This design looked familiar to me as a concept long before BMO moved out

[mleblanc]

I've always liked the design of this building. It would be nice to see some improvements to spiff it up a bit.

I didn't read through the proposal, but is it intended to continue as office space, or will it be converted to residential?

I'm not sure to be honest. I was just browsing Breakhouses website when I stumbled across this project.

[Keith P.]

Oh dear... the much-vaunted plans for the Khyber are on the rocks again. Shocking.

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/salt/why-plans-are-changing-for-downtown-halifaxs-historic-khyber-building-443507/


Faced with higher-than-expected holding costs, the society working to restore the historic Khyber building in downtown Halifax is modifying its plans and hoping to open part of the space early.

The 1588 Barrington Building Preservation Society bought the building in 2018 from Halifax Regional Municipality for $1, and was given two years to get a feasible plan to renovate the space in front of staff — or else the city can buy it back for the same price, as of Nov. 30.

The sale agreement “obliges the Society to submit progress reports at 6-month intervals,” and one of those reports was tabled at council this week, on April 28, with an information report from city staff, meaning it landed without debate. Coun. Matt Whitman asked to discuss the report at council’s next meeting.

In the report, city grants manager Peta-Jane Temple paints a dire financial picture of the Society.

“Cash on hand is insufficient to address accounts payable of over $32,000,” Temple wrote in the report, dated Jan. 28, 2020.

“This places the Society in a difficult position as it has no working capital to pay bills and operate the facility.”

With costs including property tax, insurance, repairs, maintenance and utilities, the Society is losing money.

“In 2019 the Society incurred $56,000 in operating costs and almost $26,000 in revenues for a net loss of $30,000,” Temple wrote.

Most of that revenue came from the municipality — more than $21,000. The Society also fundraised about $4,000.

To complete the project, the Society needs just over $3.1 million. It’s hoping to get half from the federal government, through the Department of Canadian Heritage’s Canada Cultural Spaces Fund. It’s looking for an additional $900,000 from the provincial government, and Halifax has committed $225,000 once the Society has a construction state date and itemized costs for the work.

The remaining $440,000 will come from a fundraising campaign.

But the Society didn’t expect to grapple with such high costs just to keep the building while it raised that cash.

“Previously, we were operating under the assumption that we would need to raise the majority of our capital goal before proceeding with any space use of the building,” Society president Emily Davidson wrote in the progress report to city staff, dated Jan. 17, 2020.

“However, carrying costs on the vacant building are high, and this is an unsustainable use of resources.”

The new plan is to fix up just the first floor, including asbestos abatement, and “reopen in a temporary capacity.” The Society secured a $25,000 capital grant early this year to do so.

“Our goal is to open two rooms on the first floor of 1588 Barrington Street in Winter 2020 as community rental spaces,” Davidson wrote. “These temporary rental spaces will be available for short-term rental while we continue our fundraising activities, launch a full capital campaign, and prepare to renovate the site.”

Temple wrote that the Society will incur some operating costs under that plan, but “hourly rental income could generate modest revenue, elevate the building’s profile and encourage donor support, and possibly decrease the high insurance premium which accounts for approximately 35% of current holding costs.”

Although there’s no council action associated with the information report, Temple suggested “it would be prudent to request a revised cost estimate for the remediation work prior to the release of all or some portion of HRM’s capital funding. A revised timeline for completion should also be requested.”


So 18 months into this boondoggle, they have raised a paltry $4K, or 1% of what they were supposed to, have no money in the bank, are running a substantial operating loss, and clearly have no capacity to do what they proposed to do. They have zero chance of raising $436,000 over the next 6 months given their sorry track record. I seriously doubt that $25K will be adequate for just the asbestos abatement, much less the other work that would be needed to find paying tenants for the first floor. Wisely, the provincial and federal govts have not doled out the millions they claimed to have approved given the sorry state of the entire affair and the lack of capabilities by the society to take on such a substantial project. This is Mason's gift to HRM taxpayers that just keeps on giving.

Time to push the reset button at City Hall I think. HRM will likely be saddled with this albatross once again, and needs to figure out something to do with it other than funding a clubhouse for Mason's old chums. Take it back, sell it to the highest bidder, and move on.

[ILoveHalifax]

Time to level the entire block including that mess that has been done to the burnt out dump

[OldDartmouthMark]

Thankfully everybody doesn't share that opinion.

There's no point in discussing the virtues of keeping heritage buildings to people who don't care about heritage buildings, but to Keith's point it does sound like somebody needs to come up with a better business plan or the building itself will be at risk due to lack of maintenance.

I suspect many people see the value in keeping true to the Barrington Street Heritage district, but it sounds like the city needs to take a more active role in ensuring that the buildings will be maintained in such a way to preserve their heritage characteristics and structural wellbeing. It has been pointed out many times in the past, by people more knowledgeable than myself, that there are ways to do this which have already proven successful in other Canadian cities.

Lets hope that something positive happens here.

[Dmajackson]

2165 GOTTINGEN STREET

https://66.media.tumblr.com/b6fe29e4c84ba95ec1f25d2739c2e7b8/762eda68efe30c08-63/s540x810/5f6a9e20766dee8eb17914ad2452fb7c0df47d00.jpg
Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson) (https://urbanhalifax.tumblr.com/)

[eastcoastal]

Thankfully everybody doesn't share that opinion.

There's no point in discussing the virtues of keeping heritage buildings to people who don't care about heritage buildings, but to Keith's point it does sound like somebody needs to come up with a better business plan or the building itself will be at risk due to lack of maintenance.

I suspect many people see the value in keeping true to the Barrington Street Heritage district, but it sounds like the city needs to take a more active role in ensuring that the buildings will be maintained in such a way to preserve their heritage characteristics and structural wellbeing. It has been pointed out many times in the past, by people more knowledgeable than myself, that there are ways to do this which have already proven successful in other Canadian cities.

Lets hope that something positive happens here.

I think it's definitely of benefit to keep buildings like the Khyber. Also certainly sounds like the group that's supposed to be taking care of this building now might be out of its depth.

[someone123]

I think it's definitely of benefit to keep buildings like the Khyber. Also certainly sounds like the group that's supposed to be taking care of this building now might be out of its depth.

Why isn't the city just running the building and renting out space to community groups?

[Keith P.]

Why isn't the city just running the building and renting out space to community groups?

Because then the group that wants it for their personal clubhouse would have to pay rent and act in a financially responsible manner. I shudder to think how much HRM money has been doled out to the current bunch over the years thanks to their buddy on Council.

I suspect there are very few viable business cases that would tempt any capable group to want to take this building on by purchasing and renovating it. The cost just to bring it up to code would be massive in itself. Therefore it may be likely that HRM will get stuck with it and need to pour millions into it. Perhaps they can stick the Planning offices there. :haha:

[Colin May]

Why isn't the city just running the building and renting out space to community groups?
It is a mess. Read their financials. A bust, a boondoggle, a waste of time and a councillor who just couldn't say no. Too many 'arts' groups don't have a financial clue (based on personal experience) and too many drama queens/artistes. I assume nothing will be cleared up until after the fall election.

[RoshanMcG]

Tel Lofts
http://i.imgur.com/u2iBpFFh.jpg (https://imgur.com/u2iBpFF)

http://i.imgur.com/XcnTxXYh.jpg (https://imgur.com/XcnTxXY)

http://i.imgur.com/eHxPOfzh.jpg (https://imgur.com/eHxPOfz)

[Colin May]

Yours for just $3.6 million :- 184,186,188 and 190 Portland Street.
Sale pending, first listed October 2 2019 total assessed value $1,079,700

[Jonovision]

There is an application to discharge the development agreement at 2900 Agricola. Where the radio station building is.

https://www.halifax.ca/business/planning-development/applications/case-22906-2900-agricola-street-halifax

I'm assuming this means that the site will be redeveloped soon.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Looks like Cogswell may be delayed yet again due to COVID-19 related budget cuts.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/weekly-green-bin-pickup-this-summer-in-halifax-region-axed-1.5568598

Under the original proposal, proposed capital cuts include:

$26.2 million for Cogswell Interchange redevelopment.
$5.6 million for fire station replacements.
$2 million for Downtown Dartmouth infrastructure renewal.

[someone123]

Looks like Cogswell may be delayed yet again due to COVID-19 related budget cuts.

I haven't really dug into it but my first impression from reading so far is this is the wrong way to approach budgeting right now. This is a good time to spend on infrastructure and Cogswell in particular is somewhat disruptive, so this would have been an excellent time to begin work.

It's completely backward to put off a public works project when there's little traffic and growing unemployment and then restart it when the economic picks up again and there's more traffic and demand for labour.

Then on top of this there's the general fact that every little thing HRM does seems to take 20 years. According to LinkedIn the project director for Cogswell was hired nearly 5 years ago.

[Colin May]

Looks like Cogswell may be delayed yet again due to COVID-19 related budget cuts.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/weekly-green-bin-pickup-this-summer-in-halifax-region-axed-1.5568598
HRM would be foolish to spend millions demolishing Cogswell, there will be no interest from real estate entities and there is no solution to the issue of truck traffic heading to and from Halterm. The world has changed although HRM council seems to think this is a temporary blip and has decided that layoffs will be confined to people who provide services to residents but are not HRM employees.

[someone123]

HRM would be foolish to spend millions demolishing Cogswell, there will be no interest from real estate entities and there is no solution to the issue of truck traffic heading to and from Halterm. The world has changed although HRM council seems to think this is a temporary blip and has decided that layoffs will be confined to people who provide services to residents but are not HRM employees.

The Windsor Street Exchange improvements include rail improvements for the South End terminal. Perhaps they will be shelved too due to the economic downturn. :rolleyes:

[Haliguy]

The Windsor Street Exchange improvements include rail improvements for the South End terminal. Perhaps they will be shelved too due to the economic downturn. :rolleyes:

Hopefully not, these are the type of infrastructure projects we need to carry us over into recovery. Plus it would be great to have this one done before the Cogwells proceeds, with fewer trucks going through the downtown.

[Colin May]

There are fewer trucks going through downtown and it will be like that for quite a while. Changing Cogswell is now a project with dubious payback.
We have just been reviewing what we knew about COVID and our first notification was January 26. The Democrats were still busy attempting to impeach Trump and CNN in N America was 24/7 on the issue, no mention of impending doom. I think I will assemble all the COVID messages we received and have the information in one file. In February Justin was wandering around Africa shilling for votes in an attempt to become a member of the UN Security Council; he returned to Canada February 15 2020.
Our economy is not going back to what many thought was 'normal'; in some ways it was 'abnormal'.

[Drybrain]

HRM would be foolish to spend millions demolishing Cogswell, there will be no interest from real estate entities

Demolishing Cogswell and rebuilding the street grid is already supposed to take until 2022. If it's delayed by a year then we can say 2023, and then the build-out will be several more years, maybe something like a decade. That's always been the plan. Unless COVID actually stunts the city's growth in a profound way for a generation (no reason to assume that) I don't see why this would affect real-estate demand for more than a relatively short time.

As I see it, in the worst-case scenario the city's growth and economy are badly hit. It would still be better to tear down Cogswell and rebuild it as a functioning neighbourhood, even to a lower residential density reflecting reducing demand.

[Colin May]

Demolishing Cogswell and rebuilding the street grid is already supposed to take until 2022. If it's delayed by a year then we can say 2023, and then the build-out will be several more years, maybe something like a decade. That's always been the plan. Unless COVID actually stunts the city's growth in a profound way for a generation (no reason to assume that) I don't see why this would affect real-estate demand for more than a relatively short time.

As I see it, in the worst-case scenario the city's growth and economy are badly hit. It would still be better to tear down Cogswell and rebuild it as a functioning neighbourhood, even to a lower residential density reflecting reducing demand.
Cash flow rules. The plan did not take into account the arrival of a pandemic.
HRM has healthy reserves but they will be hit hard this year and next year and that is why Dube is advising against the Mason et al plan. When Savage talks about ' a rainy day' he is wrong. Saving for a rainy day is not the same as saving for months of rain. He and his colleagues have their eyes on the election and then next year they'll come back and cry 'woe is us'. And he has not yet talked about the condition of the pension plan which was well described by the CEO of the plan in January 2019, complete with a warning of the difficulties the plan faced. All swept under the rug since he went public.
And this " European countries should brace themselves for a deadly second wave of coronavirus infections because the pandemic is not over, the World Health Organisation’s top official in Europe has said.

In an exclusive interview with The Telegraph, Dr Hans Kluge, director for the WHO European region, delivered a stark warning to countries beginning to ease their lockdown restrictions, saying that now is the "time for preparation, not celebration".
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/14/second-deadly-wave-coronavirus-hit-europe-winter/

[IanWatson]

My worry with Cogswell is that routine maintenance has been put off, presumably because it was planned for demolition in the very near future. The road surface on top is atrocious, and the concrete structure is getting sketchy. If the deadline keeps getting bumped, at what point does the city have to invest a ton of money just to keep it in a usable state?

[Keith P.]

In times of economic distress and uncertainty it makes some sense to limit capital spending in order to keep the lights on. It makes even more sense to take a hard look at operations - since those are what drive ongoing expenditures - and reduce non-essential spending, cut the frills, and focus on core services. Unfortunately what Mason et al are proposing is to limit operational cuts in order to keep spending that money while borrowing as much as possible to do so while still spending on capital. This is exactly the wrong approach and Dube is correct in treating it as such. There is a seeming majority on Council that thinks it is their job to spend as much as possible regardless of the need, and that all HRM spending is good spending. Some of the recent pronouncements by certain members of Council that they would not support any cut to certain budgets demonstrates this, and likely also shines a light on them pandering for votes from HRM's employees and their like-minded supporters. This is exactly the opposite of what they should be doing now. This situation is of indeterminate duration and HRMs future cash flows could be impaired for a significant time. We just don't know if and when things will get back to normal. Buying a new house and car when you just got laid off is not a strategy most people would follow but it what some on Council seem to be proposing.

We need an entirely new Council this fall.

[Haliguy]

In times of economic distress and uncertainty it makes some sense to limit capital spending in order to keep the lights on. It makes even more sense to take a hard look at operations - since those are what drive ongoing expenditures - and reduce non-essential spending, cut the frills, and focus on core services. Unfortunately what Mason et al are proposing is to limit operational cuts in order to keep spending that money while borrowing as much as possible to do so while still spending on capital. This is exactly the wrong approach and Dube is correct in treating it as such. There is a seeming majority on Council that thinks it is their job to spend as much as possible regardless of the need, and that all HRM spending is good spending. Some of the recent pronouncements by certain members of Council that they would not support any cut to certain budgets demonstrates this, and likely also shines a light on them pandering for votes from HRM's employees and their like-minded supporters. This is exactly the opposite of what they should be doing now. This situation is of indeterminate duration and HRMs future cash flows could be impaired for a significant time. We just don't know if and when things will get back to normal. Buying a new house and car when you just got laid off is not a strategy most people would follow but it what some on Council seem to be proposing.

We need an entirely new Council this fall.

Actually, it's in hard economic times that you invest in capital projects to stimulate the economy and help in the road to recovery.

[Keith P.]

Actually, it's in hard economic times that you invest in capital projects to stimulate the economy and help in the road to recovery.

Not if you do not have any certainty of future revenues. "Stimulating the economy" is best left to senior levels of govt that have considerable capacity to incur debt and can actually make a difference to the economy.

[OldDartmouthMark]

My worry with Cogswell is that routine maintenance has been put off, presumably because it was planned for demolition in the very near future. The road surface on top is atrocious, and the concrete structure is getting sketchy. If the deadline keeps getting bumped, at what point does the city have to invest a ton of money just to keep it in a usable state?

That was my exact worry when I first read this. IIRC, the entire stimulus for this project was that the structural integrity of the overpasses was deteriorating and it was going to require a significant investment in maintenance costs to allow them to continue to be safe and keep them in use.

Each time this project is delayed, it seems to me that there is risk that some further investment will have to be applied to keep them in use - which is counterintuitive - spending money to maintain structures that are soon going to be torn down.

So... it makes me wonder if this aspect has been taken into account. Presumably the overpasses are going through regular engineering inspections to ensure their structural integrity, but it just seems that delaying this project doesn't seem like the best way to cut costs - especially in consideration of the potential long-term implications of continual delay.

[someone123]

That was my exact worry when I first read this. IIRC, the entire stimulus for this project was that the structural integrity of the overpasses was deteriorating and it was going to require a significant investment in maintenance costs to allow them to continue to be safe and keep them in use.

There is a disconnect in that Cogswell is presented as a "nice to have" project but in reality the city has been maintaining a surplus interchange for around 50 years, spending on maintenance and giving up tax revenues on that land. It is not comparable to, say, the central library project.

There have also been multiple rounds of studies done and shelved. If I remember correctly, this was studied as far back as the 90's. Presumably if Cogswell is delayed for a year the Cogswell team that already exists will continue to be paid by HRM. The project director for Cogswell got paid $218,952.00 in 2019 (source (https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default/files/documents/city-hall/accountability-transparency/Statement%20of%20Compensation%202019.pdf)). I'd guess the costs from all these delays over multiple decades add up to a significant percentage of the project costs.

Old HRM news release about Cogswell maintenance, cost shared with the province, but no numbers: http://legacycontent.halifax.ca/mediaroom/pressrelease/pr2009/090902cogswellmaint.php

Council has a history of debating this when maintenance can no longer be put off and then kicking the can down the road.

[Colin May]

Good posts. The solution would be an independent survey to determine the safety of the structure and an estimate of cost to maintain for the short term. HRM has given no indication as to the estimated remaining lifespan.
I hear the apartment vacancy rate has soared, if true it is good news for permanent residents. Banks be happy/unhappy depending on the credit worthiness of local developers.